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Leader Dogs for the Blind empowers people who are blind or visually impaired with the tools for safe and independent daily travel. Our goal is to educate, advocate, and share real life experiences of those with blindness. Come learn, laugh, and grow with us.
Taking The Lead Podcast_070726_Summer Short 1
Leslie: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Taking the Lead podcast, where we empower people to be unstoppable. I'm Leslie Hoskins with my co-hosts, Alyssa Otis and Timothy Gunio. Welcome, guys.
Alyssa: Hello, hello.
Leslie: How we doing today?
Timothy: It's okay. Doing all right.
Alyssa: Yeah, doing pretty good. Staying cool. Hanging in there. Which is great. Hanging in there, and I feel like summer is flying by, but at the same time, it's just going real slow.
Leslie: Yeah, which is a good place to be. Yeah.
Alyssa: Which is a good place to be. I would never wish winter upon myself in July or August or September or honestly even in January or February.
Timothy: But here we are. I'm just counting the weekends 'cause it's getting closer to the Georgia football games,
Leslie: so. Okay.
Alyssa: All right. I know.
I know. Everything on the radio is all about football starting and who's a, a free agent and all these words I don't know. I pretend to. You guys are listening
Leslie: to the wrong radio, I think.
Timothy: Maybe they'll change their costumes for
Alyssa: less when we get to fall. Yes, exactly. Oh. Their outfits. Yes, their little outfits.
Oh, yeah. Too
Leslie: funny.
Alyssa: Too funny. No, summer [00:01:00] is, is wild, getting ready for all of the fall things, and apparently we're already in football season. Yeah. So- It's nuts ... what, what more can you ask for? But I know it has been hot out there for the puppies- Mm-hmm ... for all of our dogs. We were just talking to Timothy actually about making sure that, uh, Glacier was staying nice and cool and hydrated, and he was saying how he is, you know, of course if it's too hot for us people, it's probably too hot for those furry friends of ours.
Timothy: Oh, I always test the, uh, the blacktop when we get out going places. You gotta put your hand down there for about 10 seconds. If it burns you, it's gonna burn your dog. So, uh-
Alyssa: Absolutely. Yeah, they say even- ... be careful
Timothy: with that ...
Alyssa: the back of your hand, too, you know, on that, on that. A little more sensitive. A little more sensitive if you have a dog that has a little bit more sensitive paws.
Leslie: Yeah.
Alyssa: Interesting. Yeah, it's a really good idea.
Timothy: And Glacier doesn't like to wear those balloons on her feet when we're going through Walmart.
Alyssa: Yeah, not so much into the dog booties.
Leslie: That is
Timothy: one of my favorite things. No, she hates them. She, she walks around with her head down like she's in disgrace.
Alyssa: Oh. Oh, no.
Leslie: That's like my dog. If you put a costume on her, she just [00:02:00] freezes. Yeah.
Alyssa: Like,
Leslie: she will not move.
Alyssa: Little body sensitive there. I don't know if she would've made it as a guide dog.
Leslie: No, she certainly would not have.
Alyssa: Uh, but we have a lot of dogs that do make it as guide dogs. That's true. Maybe not, maybe not yours.
Leslie: Yeah, certainly not.
Alyssa: Oh, my goodness, but today I kind of wanted to, to talk to you guys. I know that, you know, in the background, we have been talking, and I know Timothy's mentioned it here on the podcast before, um, that we are, you know, getting to that point where he is contemplating that retirement of Glacier.
And I just wanted to kinda talk about the life cycle of a leader dog with everybody. So, you know, we see these incredibly trained guides out there. They obviously have to come from somewhere. So where do they come from? So for those of you that know about leader dogs, some of this might be a little bit of review, but it's always fun to go over kind of that life cycle.
And we breed all of our own dogs. We use those Labradors and Golden Retrievers, and we also mix those two breeds. So we breed all of our own dogs. They then go and live with [00:03:00] puppy raisers Which are these incredible group of volunteers who take these dogs to all different areas. They're taking them to grocery stores, they're taking them to places of worship, they're taking them to soccer games.
Really anywhere that they go work, if they're allowed to take their dog to work from, uh, their management says they can. You know, all of those things are what our puppy raisers are doing during that year. They're also teaching good dog skills. So we're not teaching guide dog skills as puppies, but those good dog skills.
We're not jumping on tables, we're not, you know, s- pulling on my handler's leash, we're not barking at other dogs, and those kinds of things. So even before they go through guide dog training, these dogs go through a lot. A lot, a lot. Timothy, I don't know if you have, uh, had a chance to ever meet or talk to Glacier's puppy raiser?
I believe you have. Oh, yeah, I have. Yeah, you're close with them, right? You visit. Yeah,
Timothy: we, we visited them with a couple, for like a couple of weeks. Yeah. So they got to see Glacier and, and, uh, I got to say thank you to them and all that s- [00:04:00] good stuff. And yeah, we, we stay in contact constantly. They have moved to Alabama now, so they're a little bit closer.
Leslie: Oh, my
Alyssa: gosh.
Leslie: Oh.
Timothy: So, yeah. They were in Wisconsin. Now they're in, in Alabama. So, uh, yeah, they're great people, and they, they love Leader Dog, and they love the mission that they've done. I think it w- Glacier was their seventh or eighth dog.
Alyssa: I was just gonna ask. They've raised before? So yeah, clearly.
Timothy: Yeah, and all of them graduated.
And I, that's pretty- Oh, wow. Really? Every one of their dogs. So they got pictures of all their dogs with their handlers. You know, what, that photo we take. And, and they've got all of them put up somewhere in, in their house, of all their dogs and all the, the new handlers.
Leslie: That's crazy.
Alyssa: I don't know if I know of any puppy raiser that's
Leslie: had all their dogs graduate.
I have to ask, too. I don't think I've ever asked, did they use like a naming thing? Oh, yeah. Like, some people name their dogs-
Timothy: Yeah ...
Leslie: all different types of cheeses. Like, what was, what is their naming
Timothy: theory? A, B, C, D, E, F, G.
Leslie: Oh. Oh, okay. Okay.
Timothy: So Glacier was named after, you know, in Wisconsin, the Great Lakes were carved out by glaciers, so that's where that name comes from.[00:05:00]
Leslie: Okay. '
Timothy: Cause I was curious, and I had to ask about
Leslie: that. Of course. Well, right, 'cause she's a black lab, which nobody thinks Glacier is gonna be a black
Alyssa: lab. That didn't even occur to me until just now. Black eyes.
Leslie: I'm here to help.
Alyssa: Oh, my goodness. That's great that you get to have that relationship with them.
It's so nice, too, now with social media.
Leslie: Mm-hmm.
Alyssa: Is I'm finding so many more clients and puppy raisers are staying in touch, sharing those photos. You know, it's not just necessarily sending a Christmas card anymore. It's, it can be so much more, if you want it to be.
Timothy: Well, you gotta understand, the, the puppy raisers for one year take care of that dog.
They support that dog. They do everything for that dog. So it, the dog is part of their lives, too. And I always want them to know what's going on with Glacier, and pictures- Yeah ... and stuff like that. That's to say a big thank you, because they do take time out of their lives to do what they do. And to give up that dog, what a sacrifice.
It, that would be tough to do, but they do it. For
Alyssa: sure. And, and it, I'm sure it is. And like they say with people, people come into your life at different times and for different lengths for different reasons. [00:06:00] And I firmly believe that goes through the entire guide dog spectrum. Because these dogs go into so many different people's lives for different lengths of time.
But- All for super important purposes. Um, so it- I
Leslie: love that perspective.
Alyssa: I, thank you. Yeah. I'm over here- So nice ... tantalizing Leslie with this. I
Leslie: know. Okay. How kind is that? Gosh. That's such a good point, though. Yeah. And I think just like people, right, everybody has a different meaning and impact, and
Alyssa: I love that.
Absolutely, and that's what makes up our guide dogs. And so, like you said, Timothy, they then have to drop off those dogs, and we know that that's super emotional. They've put so, so much time, effort, money, energy into these dogs to raise them for that year, and then they return them. But again, knowing that they're going for that bigger purpose, hopefully.
So we then spend four months training these dogs. So somebody who's a guide dog mobility instructor will get those dogs. They, of course, are gonna have vet checks and make sure that they're all healthy. Our canine care staff is gonna get them all set and ready and comfortable in our canine center, and then the GDMIs start their role, which is [00:07:00] four months of guide dog instruction and training.
So we are teaching them to stop at curbs, both before you go into the street and once you've crossed the street to make sure you've made a successful crossing. We're teaching them to avoid obstacles, partial, full obstacles that are blocking the whole sidewalk, overhead obstacles like tree branches.
We're teaching traffic responsibility. We're working on pace and pull, and it sounds like we're doing a lot of stuff in four months. It's a lot of repetition, and it's a lot of, you know, the more you do it, the better at it you get as an instructor. So, um, we at Leader Dog are very fortunate. We have some instructors that have been here, you know, 30, 40 years.
So tons of, tons of experience there. Um, but after those four months, that's when we kind of match them to the person they're going to. So as an instructor, for example, was working with Glacier. They were getting to know Glacier. They were watching videos of people that were waiting for dogs, and saw Timothy's video and said, "Yeah, I think that might be the fit," and called Timothy.
Timothy, uh, got to come to, to class and work with Glacier, and [00:08:00] has now been working for, for many years, and, and we're getting close to, to potential retirement. Most dogs work for about eight to 10 years. So you've been working with Glacier for a little while now, right, Timothy? Be
Timothy: seven years this August.
Alyssa: There you go.
Timothy: Each dog has a different cycle. Uh, some may be shorter, some may be longer, and that's just the beauty of it. And I've seen the difference in Glacier and her work, and, and so, uh, that's why we're making that decision. And, and, uh, Glacier's b- uh, been, been a lot of places. Yeah. So she's gone over and beyond of what she was probably picked way back when.
So, um, we never knew what I'd be doing s- five, six years later, so, um...
Alyssa: And that's a great point, too, is the dogs that we're giving to people, like, you know, say we give you a dog in 2026. You know, in 10 years from now, or even seven years, you might be doing something completely different than you were doing when you got that dog, whether it be because of that dog, you know, and getting that independence or not.
Um, and you [00:09:00] now are traveling like a frequent flyer.
Timothy: Yeah. Glacier's been a strong dog.
Alyssa: Yeah.
Timothy: She's been great So, um, uh, I g- I give credit to, to their trainers and, and, and also me. Uh, guide dogs don't- I was gonna say. We have to, we have to keep the dog trained up. You just don't get a dog, you gotta work that dog, 'cause that dog can, you know, if it sits on the couch for two weeks, it's gonna start-
you know, "Hey, I like this life better."
Alyssa: It's just like me. Jinx. Oh. No, but you're right. It is so true. It's not just the puppy raiser. It's not just, you know, people at Leader Dog, and it's not just the client. It's, it's such a combination of all of those. And every dog retires at a different age, just like people.
You know, some have that earlier retirement, whether it be a medical reason, maybe something changes with the dog's health. Maybe something changes with its, you know, the handler's health, our client's health. Um, you never know, or health. You never know what's gonna happen.
Timothy: Well, trust me, I'm getting close to 60 years old, and trust me, I've got wear and tear on me hanging [00:10:00] onto a dog for the past seven years.
So it, it changes. For sure.
Leslie: That is certainly something to think about, and very different than the wear and the tear of the cane. I was gonna say. I might note that just really quickly.
Timothy: You gotta replace those tips,
Alyssa: too. You do, you do have to replace the cane tips. They're not no maintenance. But that's true.
Leslie: But they are
Alyssa: low maintenance.
Leslie: And it does have an impact on your physical ability. Yes. But one thing I also think is so, uh, important to share, right, Timothy, as you're kinda going through this process, and you're starting to notice things about Glacier, that Leader Dog is still always here, right? Alyssa and all the other guide dog mobility instructors are here to have those conversations, because it might be a one-off.
Or you might be able- Mm-hmm ... to motivate him in a different way. So to have that access to the, you know, experts in that area, and be having those conversations so they can talk through, what are you l- you know, looking for? What are you noticing? Have you tried this? Alyssa, what are some of those things if somebody were to call and say, "I don't know, I think maybe my dog's wanting to retire."
Alyssa: Yeah.
Leslie: What are you gonna say?
Alyssa: Yeah. First, I just wanna kinda hear why. You know, what are you [00:11:00] seeing that is telling you that your dog might have to retire? Next, I'm gonna start asking some questions. So, like, when you pull out that harness, is your dog just as excited to put it on? Or is your dog walking away and kinda laying down?
Is your dog going on a normal route that they would do, but kind of, you know, puttering out halfway through? Or are they overstepping your curbs, just because they're kind of in, in auto mode and just walking, not paying as much attention? Are you bumping into more things? Anything that shows me your dog might be kind of losing a little bit of that responsibility.
It's not that they don't have the ability to do it, but they're just saying, "I'm, I'm tired. I've, I've done this, and I've done a good job, Mom or Dad, and now it's time to, you know, let me re- retire and relax." But a lot of the times we have clients that call us 'cause they don't know if... And they don't wanna make a right or wrong decision, but there is no such thing as a right or wrong decision here.
And that is the hardest thing, is it is such a gray area. A lot of people will go into partial retirement and kind of see how that works. [00:12:00] So I know that, Timothy, you said that you're working Glacier sometimes, not taking her others, and, and that's what a lot of our clients are doing when they're getting ready to retire, is giving the dog that grace that they need and, and so, you know, deserve, but also not, not overworking them.
Timothy: Yeah, I was able to talk to Meredith last November when I was up there for the, um, retraining-
Alyssa: Yeah ...
Timothy: um, refresher course. And we sat down and talked for a while, and we, I told her my concerns. And, and earlier this year I decided, hey, I'm gonna pull the plug, come, not pull the plug, but pull- Sure ... pull the switch a little bit- Sure
a little bit sooner than I planned on it, and we put that application in a little while back. And, uh, Glacier is, those things that you were describing, is what she's doing. And, and, uh, I get, you know, been with her for seven years, and I know her, and I can s- tell that she's getting to that point where, hey, I'm, I don't know about this.
She's getting mouthy. By, when I say by mouthy- Mm-hmm ... we'll be going through a grocery store, like the other day we were in Kroger, and all of a sudden we're going down [00:13:00] the checkout lane, 'cause she saw something on the floor that she wanted to go put in her mouth.
Alyssa: Yeah.
Timothy: And, uh, that's, that, that, that's a sign.
It's something she's never done before. I mean, it, two, three years ago she wasn't doing it, but, but- Sure ... recently she's been doing it. So that's a sign of it, hey, you know- It's
Leslie: like re-
Timothy: reverting
Leslie: back to a toddler almost. Yeah. She's like, "I'm wanna see what I can get away with here."
Alyssa: Yeah. And good on you, Timothy, for listening to her.
I mean, you clearly know her the best of anybody. I mean, you've worked with her longer than anybody else has, and you notice when things are different.
Timothy: Yeah. So I mean, the, the life cycle's different for each dog. Mm-hmm. Breed your dog, and if you start feeling uncomfortable, that's a sign that, hey, maybe... I know we all wanna work our dogs as long as we can.
Alyssa: Mm-hmm.
Timothy: But your safety is the most important thing here, and the dog's safety also, 'cause you're gonna be crossing streets still. So when you start feeling a little uncomfortable, let's, you know, maybe start talking about it.
Alyssa: Yeah. Great point. Have a, a conversation. Like Leslie said, we are always there. [00:14:00] Even if everything has been going great for eight years and I haven't heard from you in eight years, please know that we are here.
We want to have that conversation.
Timothy: It's not a failure. It's part of the li- Yeah ... that's the lifestyle of a dog handler.
Alyssa: That's exactly it.
Leslie: Absolutely. It is interesting too, you know, not everybody chooses to go and get a new guide dog right away, right? Like Timothy, y- you have decided to apply for a guide dog, continue working Glacier as you feel comfortable working her, um, and then you'll officially retire her once you are coming for your new guide dog.
Other people might choose to not get- Yeah ... a new guide dog. And Alyssa, how do you help anybody-
Alyssa: Yeah, it is ... think
Leslie: that through?
Alyssa: I know. It's, it's tough because, again, I feel like we just keep saying it's a gray area, but because it's such personal preference.
Leslie: Mm-hmm.
Alyssa: You know, so when a client has been successfully working with a dog, if they've successfully worked with that dog throughout its, its working life, that dog is theirs legally after a year if they haven't been put on any sort of probationary contract or concerns are, are happening.
So when somebody retires a dog, it's really up to them. [00:15:00] Some people, like Timothy, will apply for another dog and continue to work his dog even partially until that new dog is found for him. There's other people that will retire their dog and keep them as a pet, and then just decide I'm gonna use my white cane until my dog maybe, you know, passes away, and then maybe I'll look at getting another one.
And there's other people that say, "That was a really fun seven or eight years, and it's really not for me in this time in my life like it was maybe seven or eight years ago, and I'm gonna stick with the white cane." Maybe five years down the line they change their mind, and they let us know, but good thing is we'll always be there.
So even if you do use your white cane in between dogs, and say you want to use that as your primary mobility aid, great. If you ever change your mind, we're here. If you don't and you want upskilling on your white cane skills, we're also here. So there's, there's no right or wrong, which makes it so much harder I think sometimes.
I think people want me to say, "Yes, retire your dog today." Mm-hmm. "Today's the day." But, um, just like with people, it's not that simple.
Leslie: It's also interesting too that, [00:16:00] um, you know, we get the question all the time of like, "Oh my gosh, it's so sad when the dog retires, and you have to take the dog back." And it's like, oh, wait a minute.
No, no, no. That's that client's dog, right? We can and always will take a dog back if somebody can no longer care for their dog, or sometimes people live in housing where they can no longer keep the, uh, dog because it's not a service animal. It's now a pet. Some people will adopt their dog to a close family member or friend, so they can still see the dog if they can no longer care for him.
But that is an important thing, that that's the client's decision. The client will determine where that dog continues its life. Um, but Leader Dog is always available should we need to.
Alyssa: Yeah. If, if somebody doesn't have somewhere for their dog to go, they can't keep the dog for whatever reason, it is not looked upon negatively in any way, shape, or form.
Um, we will gladly take that dog back to Leader Dog, and then honestly, they get offered up to the puppy raiser that raised them for that first year of life. So I ... It's, it's lovely. I know we have a few instructors that have raised and have gotten their dogs [00:17:00] back in retirement, and, uh, something super special to see.
The dogs that come back retired, they never stay on campus long. They're-
Leslie: They're, they're VIP veterans ... they're v- We all kind of, you know.
Alyssa: Emails are sent out. Yeah. They're just really special. Retired
Leslie: dog is here. Really
Timothy: special.
Alyssa: Yeah. Yeah.
Timothy: Well, everybody know I am gonna keep Glacier. But Cheryl said, Cheryl said she would get rid of me first if I didn't.
So. That's hilarious. Uh, I guess I need a roof over my head. I,
Alyssa: I don't think Lead- I don't know if Leader Dog would take you, Timothy. I don't know if we could find a- Oh. I don't know if we could find a, a house for you. That's too funny. Oh, goodness. But yeah, it, it's tough. It's a tough situation. I think you're handling it with a ton of grace, Timothy.
I think it's not easy for anybody. Please also, if anybody is going through this, or in the future is going through this, we also have resources. We have people that you can talk to that are not instructors. Mm-hmm. Um, that have gone through this themselves. Real-life experience, and real-life stories, and ability to kind of connect on that level and talk about the, the difficulty of, of the situation.
Because although it's happy, the dog did a great thing [00:18:00] for, you know, seven to 10 years, definitely emotional.
Leslie: Absolutely. And Timothy, thank you for sharing your journey- Yes ... with us. I think it's so important to have that personal touch, and, and share all the things and considerations that have gone into this decision, and we'll continue to follow your journey.
But we greatly appreciate b- you always, always sharing your story.
Timothy: Yeah. That's what I'm supposed to be doing.
Alyssa: We love that. That's what I've been doing. Well, you're doing it right. So we wanna thank all of you guys for listening to the Taking the Lead podcast. I'm Melissa Otis with host Timothy Cugno and Leslie Hoskins.
We really hope you enjoyed learning, and please join us again next time as we continue to dive into the world of blindness.
Leslie: And if you'd like to learn more about applying to Leader Dog, you can head to leaderdog.org or call us at 888-777-5332. Don't forget, you can reach us at takingthelead@leaderdog.org with any questions or ideas.
And if you liked today's podcast, make sure to hit subscribe and check us out wherever podcasts stream.