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What The HealthTech?, a podcast from Radar Healthcare, creates a space for health and social care professionals to join honest conversations about current trends, challenges in the sector and making an impact on people’s lives.
In our bi-weekly Thursday episodes, we’ll be chatting to industry leaders, inspiring organisations, and our own team at Radar Healthcare, to share insight and learn alongside you.
Listen today to discover something new, and don’t forget to subscribe!
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:39:14
Unknown
Hi. What the hell's Tastelessness? I'm the host this week. Justine Upson. This is the podcast where we tackle some of the trending topics, ideas and best practice in health and social care. This week we're talking to Georgina Watkinson. Georgina has been a training officer for over 20 years. Initially working in the corporate sector before specializing in health and social care for the last 12 years, Georgina has a passion to understand dementia and mental health and has been a mental health first aid trainer since 2019.
00:00:39:16 - 00:01:08:11
Unknown
Hi Georgina, welcome to the health tech. Hi, and thank you for. Thank you for having me. You're welcome. Thank you for joining us today. So we're going to talk a little bit today about mental health first at training. And so firstly, Georgina and the training for mental health, first aid of learning. It'd be great if you could tell our listeners a little bit more about this and why there is such a need for first aid for mental health.
00:01:08:12 - 00:01:33:11
Unknown
Right. Okay. So where we look at mental health, first aid, training. For me personally, where we work in health and social care. So we've been delivering training on many different courses, but obviously the stress and strain of any kind of work life, especially in health and social care, that does tend to be quite a lot of sickness around that.
00:01:33:12 - 00:02:00:07
Unknown
And it's apparent about the stresses and strains of what the job entails. So we looked into doing mental health first aid as a training course. We went over to mental health first England first aid England to do the training, the trainer with them and then we put it out there for the the health and social care sector to be involved in.
00:02:00:09 - 00:02:29:10
Unknown
But what's quite pleasing, if I'm honest, is that a lot of the customers that we do get on to our sessions are not from CARE, so it is quite interested in that. And I do think that with everything that's been going on in the world, there is definitely a need for looking out for somebody else. You know, and this is why it's been really worthwhile doing the courses.
00:02:29:12 - 00:02:50:04
Unknown
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, you mentioned there about, you know, the last couple of years in particular. So, you know, we know that, you know, the last two years has had a massive effect on the health care industry as a whole. How do you think it has impacted on our mental health in general? And do you think this means more people need to be aware of how they can help people going through any issues?
00:02:50:06 - 00:03:23:14
Unknown
Absolutely. The irony about all of the last two years, if we have not gone into a global pandemic at the time it was the mental health said was going to become a real big driver in health and safety at work. But because of the pandemic that was put on the backburner and yet because of that pandemic, we've seen how much it has affected people in their own lifestyles in the life and work in the person alive.
00:03:23:16 - 00:03:45:03
Unknown
And it is so important that we can reach out to people and offer the support in that first day. I think that's it. You know, I, I attended the class a little while ago and yeah, it definite gives you a good overview of how you can help people and especially like you said, you know, I know a lot of people now that are going through issues.
00:03:45:03 - 00:04:03:16
Unknown
So yeah, it's, it's a really, really useful skill to have. And moving on, you know, again, you mentioned it was going to be a huge thing in workplaces. So every organization, you know, has a first aid kit. They have trained. First aid is on site, but it does feel like mental health first. It is still quite far behind.
00:04:03:18 - 00:04:29:23
Unknown
What do you think workplaces need to do to to sort of tackle ice and to make it more of a requirement? I think we really need to be readdressed in the the duty of care in all workplaces. You know, we look at the wellbeing of a person, we look at the physical side of a person's wellbeing, and yet I think we are missing out on that mental wellbeing.
00:04:30:00 - 00:05:12:02
Unknown
And I think until we can address that, the physical side is always going to be affected. We're always going to be then looking at maybe having sickness and know things like this because we're not addressing that. And I think we do need to look into perhaps the way that H.R. is looked at. It's dealing with people's personal lives and taking that it's not just a duty of care 9 to 5 and, you know, whatever you do outside of work, but your life is trying to incorporate in it as the impact of what people are going through in their own lives when they are coming into a workplace.
00:05:12:04 - 00:05:35:08
Unknown
So I really do think it needs to be linked same and really sort of thought about how we can support people whilst at work. Yeah, I think it's a really interesting point that actually when you mention about, you know, the sickness side because that can still be a stigma in some places when it comes to sickness, from mental health compared to sort of physical sickness.
00:05:35:10 - 00:06:03:24
Unknown
If you got any advice that you would offer workplaces to sort of look into this? Well, I think first and foremost, we need to stop judging and look at the reason why somebody is off sick and I think being honest about people's workload and life balance, I think really to to look at what is going on within that work life and home life.
00:06:04:01 - 00:06:37:11
Unknown
And I think a big thing is the trying to be a little bit more non-judgmental and from running the courses from from talking to managers are dealing with the day to day running of the business which we do appreciate has to be you know, it's sort of finding out if we were to think about a lot of sicknesses, it could very well be, excuse me, that somebody may have been out drinking, they may have got a lifestyle that we would not always choose, you know, but it's trying to find out why that that's the case.
00:06:37:12 - 00:07:10:07
Unknown
If somebody is having re-occurring cold and sicknesses, is it perhaps lifestyle is the reason why the lifestyle is impacting the health and then of respect for the for the work life as well? You know, so I think the law around that stigma needs to be addressed. Yeah, I think that why is really important, isn't it? You know, actually really getting down to the the sort of the roots of the issue as well and really understanding where that comes from.
00:07:10:09 - 00:07:50:03
Unknown
Yeah. And I do think majority of people that I've spoke to, especially in Asia, do want to look at it like that. But I suppose there are a lot of pressures on business to offer, to have a good workforce and a reliable workforce. And it's interesting when we're looking at the subject of bank holidays being brought up saying that we're having an extra one for the Queen's birthday and then the trying to look into putting this into play each year purely and simply because of the the fact we're giving people days off as the bank holiday.
00:07:50:05 - 00:08:17:24
Unknown
I actually it helps with the wellbeing, the productivity of work, you know so it's not looking at the quantity of how much we're going to do, but actually the quality of what we're going to do and the quality around the staff and supporting the staff, you know, So it is quite interesting at this moment in time that that is so a source of yeah, there's definitely a lot of talk about sort of four day weeks and things like that as well as at last.
00:08:17:24 - 00:08:53:08
Unknown
So there's a lot, a lot of things are being talked about at the moment. Just when thinking about the pressures of life, you know, we're living in a obviously we've just on the back of of COVID. But then there's the extra pressures of all the the bills going up, the cost of living going up. And it's almost as though sometimes we look at we need to work more to pay for more, but actually, you know, work in not the same, working less, but having a quality work then that surely would help a lot of people as well.
00:08:53:10 - 00:09:21:08
Unknown
Yeah, definitely. And so for any of our listeners who don't know what to expect from mental health first aid training, could you give us an overview of what someone on the course could maybe take away from this? Yeah, I think when people come on to the course, they are obviously there because they want to become mental health first aid is, I think what a lot of people do take away from the course is their own reflection, reflecting out.
00:09:21:08 - 00:10:01:02
Unknown
They may look into another person's state of mind. And again, that judgmental sort of feeling that we all have, but not in a malicious way. But sometimes I think we look and think we couldn't out. We're not qualified to help. And I think with the course it focuses, the course focuses such a lot on it's not there to diagnose an illness, it is just there to signpost and and show that there is that that chance of the hope of the recovery and everything.
00:10:01:07 - 00:10:22:15
Unknown
And it's it's just sort of focusing on just being there to listen to somebody can be as well as thinking that, oh my gosh, I'm going to get them to the doctors or anything. It's just that first point can be a huge step for somebody. And I do think a lot of people do reflect on their own prejudgments coming into the course.
00:10:22:17 - 00:10:45:08
Unknown
Yeah, I agree. I think it's one of the big things I took away from it was how much you can actually help someone just by listening. And, you know, we are sort of all walked away with with the big money bowl, with all the reference points and signposts and things like that. And there are so many places to kind of help people that maybe people aren't aware of as well.
00:10:45:08 - 00:11:13:02
Unknown
So it was certainly something I took away from it. Yeah. And I think just with that as well, you know, we've all been in that same position. I've been in that position where I didn't know that there was all this help out there because it doesn't seem to be advertised as much. It's not doing too bad. We get a little bit moth through social media's through different outlets that there are these, so are organizations there to help.
00:11:13:04 - 00:11:46:09
Unknown
But I think just recognizing that sometimes we may not have as we speak about on the call, you know without mental health we don't our physical health. And again, it's linking that physical health to the mental health. So you GP's and things like this where people may not think to go to for the help that's required. Yeah. And that links really nicely into the fact that you know this week is mental health awareness Week and hosted by the Mental Health Foundation.
00:11:46:11 - 00:12:29:01
Unknown
The theme this year is all about raising awareness of the impact of loneliness and the impact that has on on our mental wellbeing, which, you know, can impact anyone at any time, at any age, really. So what are your thoughts on steps which we could take to address this side of things? I think sometimes, well, I find is that we sometimes lack the sense of community that I think we can fall into a little bit of our own way of living in our own little bubbles and not really caring about what happens next or I think we're always a little bit frightened of almost being a nosy never.
00:12:29:01 - 00:12:55:21
Unknown
And I obviously don't mean that to be, but taking care of, you know, saying hello to the next door neighbor, you know, so being a little bit kinder to the person that might not react in the same way as well, we might be acting and just taking note that you your own sort of way around people could have a massive impacts on them.
00:12:55:23 - 00:13:24:06
Unknown
You know, And I think that it's just sort of taking care of what we've got around us. And it's like the little pebble and inset in the in the stream. The it might not change the world, but it just might change some of this world. Yeah. I think, you know, I think that's a really, really interesting point. We actually spoke to Becky and Donna here and a couple of weeks ago in the podcast, and he does a lot of work around loneliness and dementia.
00:13:24:08 - 00:13:42:24
Unknown
And he mentioned exactly the same thing. You know, I think he used to call it something like, you know, you can't change the world, but you can change your streets, which is exactly the same point you've just made. So yeah, if anybody hasn't listened to that episode, then then go back and listen to episode two, because it's a it is a great lesson.
00:13:43:01 - 00:14:17:13
Unknown
And so, you know, when it comes down to our listeners and raising awareness of mental health, first aid training, and if they could do one thing this week to sort of help with that, have you got any sort of suggestions of things that there could they could do to raise this awareness of thing, to raise awareness? And maybe their own awareness is, you know, again, looking to the next person who could be around not making those judgments that we as I said, we all do make judgments.
00:14:17:13 - 00:15:00:17
Unknown
It's it's how we act on those judgments. You know, so it's it's been a little bit kinder to the next person. And I think sometimes there are information that can be looked into with regards to different mental health conditions and illnesses. And I think sometimes just having a little bit of information on what things are could either help themselves, it could help the family, but certainly to talk, make sure that people are talking about things and not shying away from the mental health of another person all for themselves and not to feel the shame and the guilt around mental health.
00:15:00:19 - 00:15:24:05
Unknown
You know, with that, as we as we do say on the course, there is no life without mental health. And mental health is not a negative. We all have mental health. Some people will have illnesses, some people won't. So I think it's to talk and to share their own experiences. Yeah, I think that one of the things I noticed when I was on the course was how many different people were actually on there.
00:15:24:05 - 00:15:44:13
Unknown
So, you know, I think there was about ten people on one when I came on it. And you are different people from different workplaces, but then you are also people that sort of came on on to it their own, their own backs, you know, that was kind of do it for their own personal development because they might know someone who's gone through some issues and they don't know how to deal with it.
00:15:44:13 - 00:16:25:05
Unknown
And I think that was really interesting to see how many different people were actually on the course as well. Yeah, and I think with the course as well, where we mentioned about physical first aid, I think it's interesting as well. People are always willing to either download first aid up that they're willing to go on to physical first aid courses and something that always really keeps with me from all the training that I do with mental health is the saying that you are more likely to be rubbing shoulders with somebody that suffering suicidal thoughts, then that's going to need CPR.
00:16:25:07 - 00:16:50:10
Unknown
But we do focus more on that. So sometimes I think to, you know, have a look at what apps are there and to understand your own mental health and things like this. I think that's the way going forward when it comes to helping others in themselves. And I think that's something really that I get out from the courses that I see people coming on with as well.
00:16:50:12 - 00:17:10:18
Unknown
Yeah, I think that the thing that, you know, there are a lot of videos and things like that as well to kind of show to different elements. Someone can be up in a bit of a psychotic episode, for example, and the video will show two different reactions to it. And I think that's really interesting to see how, you know, the best way to react compared to how you shouldn't react.
00:17:10:23 - 00:17:38:15
Unknown
And again, it's that understanding those things that you can do to help that person. Absolutely. And I found even with my own self, the way that I speak to my own children sometimes being a mum, I think sometimes being a mum, we can the feeling that we've got the entitlement to be a bit judgy around our children and mine are adults now, but sometimes I even watch for how I might ask the question now, you know.
00:17:38:19 - 00:18:02:20
Unknown
So I think it's something that I've picked up on from that. Like you say, the videos, the do they show the scenarios of two different people and unfortunately, the way that we shouldn't do it, if we're honest, is probably the way that we'd see it the most. Yeah, it is. And that was Stephanie the reaction from from the room I think when when we watched it as well.
00:18:02:20 - 00:18:30:01
Unknown
So yeah, I'm hoping that we can we can definitely change some of those stigmas and judgments. The more we kind of learn about this stuff. Absolutely. Yes. So what do you think? You know, we mentioned earlier on in the in the episode about it becoming a bit more of a requirement in in the workplace as what do you think really needs to change for mental health first to be seen as something really integral and how can we all help to share that?
00:18:30:03 - 00:18:48:03
Unknown
I think once, you know, once we can say that COVID is going a little bit and we're getting back into normal, I think it is looking at the health and safety at work and thinking about it.
00:18:48:05 - 00:19:11:23
Unknown
So more with mental and physical health. And I think it's something that in workplaces we do really need to think about. And it's like if we start to change the way that we are at home, that it naturally changes the way that we are at work. And I think that would be the same if we changed things at work, we would naturally change the way that we are at home as well.
00:19:12:00 - 00:19:35:22
Unknown
So I think health and safety is a big part. I think it really does need to focus. But I also think the managers need to be looking into the health and safety and not doing it just like a tick box exercise. I think it really does need to be sort of incorporated into with h.r. Recruitment and then the daily routine of businesses and things like this.
00:19:35:24 - 00:20:01:12
Unknown
Yeah. And i think it is it's slowly becoming more well known within workplaces as, you know, with things like this course. And the more people that come on it, the more people will have awareness of, of kind of that sort of thing. I guess. Yeah. And I think for the younger sort of people, you know, they, they I think, understand mental health a lot more than people of my age.
00:20:01:14 - 00:20:26:21
Unknown
So I think it will so and it will be a more natural process when people do consider other people's mental health. A lot differently as well. That be my generation often. But we just need it. We need, you know, the schools and education and workplaces to all be involved, to bring it then into communities and things. Yeah, schools is a really useful point actually.
00:20:26:22 - 00:20:51:12
Unknown
Like you said, you know, as younger people sort of come through and with things like social media and things like that, these days, again, there's a lot more pressure, I think, than there ever used to be. So it's got to become, you know, more common, if you like, I guess. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, that's enough. Yeah. Thanks, Georgina. So at the end of every episode, we ask everybody about their what, the health tech moment.
00:20:51:14 - 00:21:11:05
Unknown
So these questions, a bit of fun. You know, we want to hear all your weird and wonderful stories across health and social care. I guess obviously, you know, being a trader, you've probably got all sorts that you've you've experienced at some point. And so if you got anything that has really impacted you or anything, we at and wonderful that you'd like to share with our listeners.
00:21:11:07 - 00:21:56:19
Unknown
Oh blimey, weird and wonderful and I've done training courses in all different areas all throughout the United Kingdom, some weird and wonderful time. So what are ones that to do a manual handling course in a convent with nuns and they did have carers. It was a retirement term for the nuns, but the nuns still massively active and wanting to be quite independent, were joined in the manual and also I suppose I've never really had to use a house with a fully dressed nuns.
00:21:56:19 - 00:22:23:20
Unknown
That was something quite different, but I think it'll stay with me for some time. Yeah, that doesn't sound like something you'll forget in a hurry. Now. No, no. And that's probably one of the nicest stories. Thanks, Georgina. I think, you know, to kind of talk about such a complex topic, the more we can all do to raise awareness and understand the the impact of mental health as is fundamental.
00:22:23:22 - 00:22:46:05
Unknown
I know from my own experience, you know, I'd certainly recommend the the mental health first aid course, particularly for anybody that is in a people for control. And, you know, I found it so informative and I definitely had a much better understanding of it in terms of how I could help someone in the future. So thank you very much for joining us and kind of talking about about like such a complex topic now.
00:22:46:07 - 00:23:14:20
Unknown
Thank you for inviting me. I've enjoyed it so thanks for joining us and thank you to everybody for listening. Next week, we're back speaking to Marcus Manhertz, who's heading up the Learning from Patient Safety Events project for NHS Improvement, and Paul, US manager at Milton Keynes University Hospitals NHS Trust to continue the conversation about the implementation of PSA and to talk about what we've all learned along the way.
00:23:14:22 - 00:23:36:22
Unknown
Don't forget to rate and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and if you have any questions for us or our guests or Georgina, please email what the health tech read our health care dot com.