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Up Your Average is the “no nonsense” podcast made for interesting people who think differently. Learn to navigate your life with unconventional wisdom by tuning in to Keith Tyner and Doug Shrieve every week.
If we look back at our founding fathers, they had a great sense of like, yes, we are
stepping into the void.
And what gave them the courage to do that, it was faith.
So our country was built upon ideologies that connected us with God.
Welcome to the Up Your Average podcast, where Keith and Doug give no nonsense advice to
level up.
your life.
So buckle up and listen closely to up your av.
Hey, good morning.
Happy Independence Day to everybody.
Uh to me, Independence Day is kind of like summertime's Thanksgiving.
And I am just, I've got a grateful heart this morning.
Good to see you guys.
It's not just Independence Day, it's 250.
Boom.
Can I throw a like an idea bomb out to you, Doug?
Let's hear it.
So our friend Stan is 84.
And that means he's lived through one third of this two fifty.
Isn't that crazy?
That's pretty cool.
Well, I I was thinking a hundred years ago.
I was born in seventy-five.
And I I was thinking a hundred years before I was born.
Um, it was Crazy Horse and Custer's last stand.
And that that makes me feel like really old and a part of this.
Well, we're
We're honored to have our friend Saban with us.
And Saban is a rock star from our vantage point.
We're thrilled by his friendship.
We're thrilled by his passion and thrilled by his skills really that that have developed
over many years.
Saban, when you think about 250 years and your own experience, what jumps out at you in
thinking about that?
Well, the very word independence is I think what America stands for on not only a
A a big picture like the country, but also on an individual basis, independence of what
what you wish to do with your life.
That's that's what comes to me.
And it's not it's something to celebrate and cherish and steward forward.
The Indian Indianapolis Star, uh, and I don't read it so much because you can't find it as
much as you used to, but they have I think as long as I can remember, uh
A verse on the top of it says, Where the spirit of the Lord is, there's there's freedom
and liberty and freedom.
It's probably hard for our friends that are watching to really appreciate it if they
haven't traveled other places where that's not just a a given.
Yeah.
Yeah, I was just in London um last week and London is a general populace, fifteen million
people, um incredibly dense population.
Traffic jams all over and there's just this general sense of oppression that that you
sense there.
It's so hard to do anything.
And um just to get across town for two, three miles, it might take an hour.
Uh and there are video cameras all over the place.
You're being watched for everything you do.
It's it not the way I'd want to live.
No, freedom's
That verse that you said, Keith, that's out front of a shoe store here in Warsaw or our
North Webster, Indiana.
And um I love that verse because you could take that verse anywhere and anywhere in the
world or at any time in the world with whatever's going on.
Or maybe you're living in Indiana and uh your life just is h hard right now.
Well that that verse applies to you too.
There there is
There's something about freedom that it requires some individual responsibility.
And there's a temptation, I think, to yield to rules and regulations rather than to jump
into freedom because somebody will tell you what you should do.
But with freedom, you can do whatever.
You can do whatever.
And that motivates me.
And Saban, what I wanted to ask you.
I was thinking, I think I told you I listened to your interview ten times.
It might have been closer to twenty.
But one thing kept jumping out at me.
uh, because I I I thought maybe I'd be a pro basketball player in the recesses of my uh
juvenile mind, and it wasn't a realistic thing.
But sometimes as dads, we have to speak hard questions to people.
And y you said
When you called your dad, he said, How long is this going to last?
And I think we're up over forty years, but but I think how long is this gonna last can be
a motivator to how to spend my time today.
Like if I'm playing a video game today, how long is this gonna last?
Right?
Like it's it's not gonna bring fulfillment lasting like a piano or sculpture will.
So what whatever happened with that question, how long is this going to last?
Well, that was the first day I was working in a wood shop and
I called my dad and uh and told him I I didn't like ask him.
I said, Dad, I'm going to go to art school.
And his response was, How long is this going to last?
That was nineteen eighty-two.
And um seems like that's been it's it's my meaning, it's my purpose of my being.
And I just want to go back to the idea of freedom and free will, because I think that's
the conversation of this moment with the celebration of that.
250 year um moment, it's it this this is not for everybody.
It takes courage.
Cause what is it?
Let's define first off, what does freedom mean?
Freedom means that you have the agency to choose.
You that's it.
Choose what you will do with the gift that God has given you of life.
And that means that you are responsible.
And then
You have to take care of yourself, not someone else.
So there's a we're in a moment.
And I I I I think this moment is really critical that we go the right, the right road at
this fork in the road, and not go into a place where like what I saw in London, where you
hand over your freedoms to a larger entity, being bureaucracy and the government.
And they make those decisions for you.
Now, a lot of people want to be taken care of because then you don't have to think about
what do I have to do today?
I'm being told what to do today.
I I am not that sort of person.
I'm an artist.
Artists think outside the box.
We're not heard people.
We don't I don't care personally if people disagree with me.
We live external to society in a way.
I don't collect a paycheck every Friday.
I don't have a boss.
And so I made a choice.
And I think in some ways, if we look back at our founding fathers, they had a great sense
of like, yes, we are stepping into the void.
And what gave them the courage to do that, it was faith.
So our country was built upon ideologies that connected us with God.
And that's something that has been, you know, put to the side.
History's been rewritten.
God is incredibly important in having freedom because you need something to hold you and
anchor you and moor you to the sacred something bigger than yourself, so that you are not
a nihilist, a living alone in society.
And that is what we are actually celebrating today.
One of the things Keith talks about all the time is courage.
And uh Keith, that's a s a a favorite subject of yours, right?
Is you know, where does courage come from?
And then how do you have the guts to either say, hey, I need some help or I'm stuck here
or to take a step forward.
And so the courage does have to start with something outside of yourself.
The thing I was pondering, I put a lot of prep time into just thinking about where our
conversation would go and
I had a conversation with uh eighty some odd year old great grandma this week and she was
telling me that her twelve year old told her uh Henry told her that he was atheist.
He didn't believe in God.
And I heard I've heard you say in the past, Saban, that there are no atheists in the
foxhole.
And and I I think maybe some of the
future is helping those youngsters even understand that there is a God and that God really
thinks you're a big deal.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a um I did this project, World War One Memorial in DC.
It's it was a nine and a half year project, a lot of figures, 38 figures, 60 feet long.
And I I I want to say I was spiritual before that project.
Um but then I I
came into a place it was really hard.
and my uh my I guess you would call it my faith grew into like actually connecting with
God on a much deeper basis.
And I I I think it's very hard for a kid to um to to to say, yeah, I believe in God.
What because kids don't have the experience of life yet.
And they haven't being a kid is not necessarily easy.
You have it your own
Personal challenges and identity challenges.
It's very um stressful.
I remember being a teenager.
It's one of the hardest, most horrible moments of my life.
And um it who you are surrounded by is critical.
So one of the things that I had that I I I'm not straying from the God thing, but I had
community.
And community came through sports.
And sports came through be your best version.
So there are moments that you don't you you may not believe in something larger than
yourself, but the thing is you you are not alone.
And so you need to move towards things that hold you and bind you into a in a larger
group, because you we we're not meant to operate alone like Robinson Caruso on a desert
island.
That's not us.
We're meant to be in families, and if your family doesn't work for you, which
Oftentimes is the case because they don't understand what you're going through as a child
or a young man or young woman.
You need to have something that binds you.
And I found sports, sports were amazing because you engage in a team.
You're you're part of something.
You're all moving forward towards the the same goal.
And that's that's I think something we want to re re remember as as a country.
We're moving together as w as one.
We're all Americans.
We're w it all this
Woke nonsense is destructive because what?
It's divisive.
It take it splits us apart and then it puts it it does this.
It and it creates conflict rather than doing this.
So if you were to take an x-ray of everybody, we'd all have the same skeleton.
If you were to cut somebody, we'd all have the same red blood.
And the first the first thing is we are human beings.
And human beings, then that that's the thing that's not defined.
That's where you start.
I've said a number of times, Saban, that growing up in the sixties and seventies, I think
I was very fortunate.
And one of the things that to me seems to have reduced some of this connectivity and
community has was the advent of the air conditioner.
Because when I was growing up, there there wasn't central air so much and you could hear a
lot of the communication that was going on.
People didn't go into the air conditioning as much.
They were outside a lot more.
And it is really challenging for people to find that connectedness today more than I can
remember because there's a let let's pull in the garage door, look in the garage, shut the
garage door, and then we don't know who who's living right next to us.
And so how how would you encourage somebody, say they're not athletic?
How how would you as you're thinking about how would you encourage a 10 year old to get
connected today in the culture
in a way that maybe isn't even athletics.
I the biggest element here is finding what excites you, what gives you a spark.
And unfortunately, you know, this thing, this this the phone, is always in our hand.
So it in some ways this requires a lot of like a personal self awareness.
And let's go back to the same thing that we talked about before.
Agency and self responsibility are not taught in the school.
Self responsibility means nobody is going to come and save you.
Nobody is going to take care of you.
Now, your parents may take care of you to a certain point, but ultimately you are
responsible for yourself.
And so you need to make some decisions on like what do I actually like?
And so you need to gravitate towards those things and find like minded people.
And I I think the thing is you don't want to find like-minded people that are moving
towards negative values of destruction and and protests.
You want to move towards people that are building things, constructing things.
Um it's a dichotomy of these two separates.
Moving towards positivity, it means we are creators because we're made in God's image.
So we want to.
Build things.
And that that doesn't only mean like building houses, building sculptures.
It also means building businesses, build building your own life, not destroying.
Destroying and protesting is about tearing down.
And that doesn't that does not serve you ultimately because if you tear things down, you
will have a void.
You need to figure out what to do in that void.
And that's what I'm seeing today.
It's like,
Ton of protest, but no concept of like creation.
There's uh a saying as as a man thinks, so he is.
And so what I hear you saying is that you have the agency to set your mind on being a
creator, and being a creator could protest the things you don't like by creating a better
solution.
Exactly.
That's exactly it.
Yeah.
You're not just tearing down to tear down.
It's okay, so I tear down modern art.
I think it's a a scam.
I think it's, you know, r been running way too long for a hundred years, and I think it's
like redundant.
And so I'm gonna like say no, and I'm gonna protest that.
But in my protest, I'm gonna build something that is an example of a where we should be
going.
That's exactly spot on what you're what you're implying, Keith.
I I took my oldest.
On a trip to New York City when she graduated from high school and she wanted to go to all
the museums.
And I think until you and I have started talking, I didn't understand why I was so angry.
And and I think I like art, but I don't think I knew that I liked art by based on the art
that I was seeing.
And I don't remember, but there was a famous musician's wife that had three piles of dirt
in one of those museums.
And then there was someplace that had like three claws hanging in.
I walked out of the room angry that I paid money to go see that.
And and I I and I I don't think I knew that I knew that I liked art, but I think I do like
art.
But I think probably what you're describing is why I was angry with that art.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um it's really unfortunate in a big way.
I I grew up in Italy, so I was surrounded by visual beauty, the visual splendor, and then
came back to the United States when I was three.
So it was
This kind of shocking moment.
And I came back to this country, it was um sixty-six.
and we were uh New York City was in the middle of, you know, receiving the people that
went to Vietnam.
And so I was surrounded by a lot of junkies in the middle of the street, derelicts, um,
just a lot of ugliness, uh a lot of violence, a lot of protest, a lot of destruction.
And so you oppose this, and that's
To to what I where I'd left the traditional.
But I I I want to say, going back to our country in a 250th, we're incredibly lucky
because nowhere else in the world do you have the opportunity that you have here.
It and and the art, if you're looking at it, a lot of this modern art stuff has been
played forward because it's a status quo that's held in place by museums and critics.
And schools and and um galleries.
And there's a reason because it's it it there's they don't care about like what is the
message of the of the the the medium or the form or the art.
What's the message of the form?
It's it's kind of sub subversive because it's you look at something and there's no there's
no sense of like it it showing you where you what you can be and where you should go with
your life.
So I think maybe what
It pissed you off, Casey.
You looked at that art and you were like, why the hell would I want to go there?
That's like a dump.
That's that's like I already live in the world as, you know, is is like a dump.
And art's not part of the world.
It's it's more of an external um philosophy.
It's a visual philosophy that connects with us and shows us what is possible.
And I think that schools are doing a very bad job of showing us as citizens.
what is possible for this country and teaching its young children and college kids, you
know, really tear it down, protest.
This is a fascist regime.
It's this is like complete BS.
You know, that it's built upon principles and values from the Constitution and Declaration
of Independence that were written by 20-year-olds that were incredibly rebellious.
And this is not what's taught in school.
And the other thing I want to say is
incredibly radical these days and rebellious to actually believe in God.
So maybe I'd just put it out there to some of the younger people listening that, you know,
you can be really rebellious if you if you start to look at like what is the opposite that
society is teaching you today?
And it's about faith.
And you know what ultimately that is?
Empowerment.
Because without that form underneath you, you don't have the power that you think you do
alone.
You can't solve your problems and what you want to do with your life alone as easily as if
you ha have the support system.
So that's my my spiel.
You're you're making me laugh because I I don't think I'm too I think I have a long fuse,
but I think the reason that I came to befriend you was I heard that your unveiling of
your memorial in DC was happening.
So we drove all the way out there and the bureaucracy wouldn't let us see the memorial.
And when I was asking the bureaucracy, well, when can I see it?
They're like, well, three o'clock tomorrow morning.
Like they couldn't care less that I drove across the country to see it.
They were indifferent.
And I could I could envision, like I I remember seeing pictures of the USSR
And the people just had this downtrodden look on their face and they're just used to
living that way.
And and my wife was watching me as they're going through the whole ceremony and unveiling
it.
And uh I I've kept telling her, I am gonna see that memorial tonight.
And and she's like and she's a rule keeper, so she's like, I don't know about that.
And I'm like, I guarantee you, I'm gonna see that before I leave the city.
So uh I just found that really interesting, is that that
That you're trying to push freedom and independence in the system for which you're working
within, they're not letting anybody, they're letting just the bureaucrats see them the
masterpiece that you made.
I just found all that hilarious.
It is.
It is of all these great people, because they are people that you've been sculpting, is
there one that really inspires you in your life today?
Like, I like are these real people?
They they are sculpting are are they collections of stories or t tell me about the people
and and how they inspire you and and maybe how they would even inspire a younger version
of you.
I it I I had a switch in my life.
It was like um up to the World War One Memorial, which is from nineteen eighty two to like
twenty fifteen, I was sculpting um ideas l that looked like very Greco Roman.
very classical um figures and they were ideas.
very esoteric, you know, not something that everybody would understand.
And it was kind of like a training process of like sculpting from life and taking a a
year, literally over two thousand hours per per sculpture, and then and then selling those
as multiples in bronze.
Well what happened was
I got the World War One memorial.
And I think this is a great question you asked me.
What happened was I didn't have to just think about myself because it working in the
studio before that, I was just, okay, I'm making my my art and now I'm going to pitch it
to people.
But now all of a sudden I get a project, it's a national memorial.
And now you're not making it just for yourself because if you if you do something
esoteric, nobody's going to get it, and then you're you massive fail.
And what happened was I had to start thinking about
other people externally to me.
And then how could I tell a story that they would get?
And now the engagement changes because you're doing it externally to just yourself.
You're and this is again, this is a connection, the connectivity that I'm talking about.
That's an amazing thing that that project taught me so much about like tell a story, have
a narrative that uh you an eighth grader is gonna get.
And then in that process,
I had to go get, you know, models.
And then I got veterans as models.
And then all of a sudden I get more information about like, wow, those people went through
really different life than I did.
And it's incredibly horrible.
It's like suicide, um, losing their friends right next to them.
And they still come back and put themselves back together in re-entry.
It's re-entry from for military is it not something that they are trained to do.
They have to figure it out on their own.
And and so these men that posed for me, they're the actual faces on the World War One
memorial.
Those that was a huge step for me going into like my f my best version as an artist.
And I think I think telling a story that connects you to audiences that you wouldn't have
even thought about.
Like I went back there this year and there was like school bus after school bus of kids
like all day long.
hundred, two hundred kids just showing up.
And my wife loves running up to people.
Hey, you like the piece?
I know who made it.
It's him.
How cool is that?
Yeah, well sort of.
But the tenth time it gets a little tiring.
no, I I like your wife's style.
That's great.
Yeah.
But she so and so, Saban, like is there someone that in the quietness of your piano
playing or your bicycle riding,
You've been thinking, man, I'd really like to create a version of this person.
Where do you need courage to create that?
Who who is it?
The the the version that I I actually have a new project that came on deck last week.
I'm really enthusiastic about this.
I'm gonna tell you about this project.
It we haven't gotten a contract yet, but this is the first time I've talked about it
publicly.
Um Let's go.
Somebody at West Point called me, and they're he asked to do a monument to global war on
terror.
And it's the first time in like my whole career I got an email from someone that actually
gave me an amazing idea.
And this this t answers your question, like who do I want to scold?
So the idea was a modern day soldier, and then another figure, which is a continental
soldier.
And the continental
soldier is history.
And it's all the same person.
The person is the same.
The accoutrements have changed.
And you know, the guns, the the boots, um, the uniforms have changed, but the people are
the same.
And so the i this is a fascinating project because this guy who served and he's got four
kids that serve and it's going to West Point.
In West Point there is great honor in service serving your country.
And
We're returning to the same concept in service of and belonging to something bigger than
yourself.
That is what that is what is so incredible about our country in many ways.
You know that how few people actually were part of the Revolutionary War, the percentages,
it's very, very small.
And those are the outliers.
Those are the people that stepped into the void.
And that's what this project is about.
How incredible our history is.
So that's
Who I want to sculpt.
That is the person that I want to sculpt.
It's an I it's not only for sharing that.
Yeah.
It's not only a human being, but it's a story that I can communicate with others.
And that that's what excites me today.
It's the connection.
So that I'm not sculpting just to make my craft.
You know, I'm making something that connects to people and passes story and history along.
Ultimately that's a very building type move movement and it's very positive.
So I'm not I'm
I'm trying to do something that leaves this planet better than when I came in on it.
The f the first soldier that came to mind when you were saying that Saban was young King
David before he was a king when he went to fight Goliath and all the the naysayers told
him, Get out of here.
You're not man enough.
And it kinda go kinda goes into the idea that what we're talking about is that you can be
the little kid that goes to the front line and changes your world.
And
Man, I I I love that idea that one man can change the world and like you're changing the
world with you with your art and your attitude and your your encouragement.
It's a big deal.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Well, I s I I I don't think my life has been easy by any stretch of the imagination,
'cause it's I spent um a long time just working on my craft and trying to get
product that would look really amazing that would kind of be at the same level that
Western civilization carried for, you know, the great art of the Renaissance or Greeks and
the Romans.
And so I I it took 35 years to get to that level.
And I feel like I it's just I I want to just say I don't think it's talent.
I think it's perseverance.
And perseverance has to do with like
And success has to do with like how do you manage problems when you get knocked down on
your butt?
It's like how do you rise to the occasion and get back on a horse?
And I think that's the success thing.
It's not like giving up because when you give up you've actually handed over your power
and you're saying you're you're s you're letting you're you're you're you're putting a
white flag up and you're saying, I am defeated.
And I think
You can fail thousands of times.
And I I do ultimately fail all the time in a studio every day and come back the next day
and give it a another another role.
And I think that's really important.
We we've uh we interviewed uh Dr.
Lee Warren a few weeks ago and it was a conversation about thinking better and the
importance of that and and and it drives me to
the verse in First Corinthians 13, it says, When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I
thought like a child, and I reasoned like a child.
And when I became a man, I put away childish things.
And when I started pondering that verse, uh, we've had we have five kids, so I I've had a
lot of experience with children.
And they they when I speak like a child, a child says whatever they want.
They just say whatever comes out of their mind.
And
A child w when I think like a child, they don't really think much.
They just whatever hits their mind, that they assume that's their thought.
And and it says when I was a child, I reasoned like a child.
And a child doesn't reasoning in my p way of looking at it is I take a thought, I look at
it and say, is this a reasonable thought or what do I do with it?
And so I I throw all that out there to say that I think a challenge to our culture today
is
It takes coping skills, it takes perseverance, it takes adversity to be able to reason
through a situation and not just throw in the towel.
Yeah, there's common sense.
And I think a lot of the the look, uh I think schools are not doing our kids a favor.
They're not teaching them exactly what you said.
It's that's what are the coping skills?
To deal with being knocked down on your butt and then getting back up.
So what's happening is the schools are teaching this victim oppressor mentality.
Does that really help you?
Does that really help you?
It's like, no, it doesn't.
It it and as an artist, it's like I could absolutely come up with a thousand oppressors of
why my art shouldn't have succeeded and I couldn't have got past the
Freaking gatekeepers of modern art.
It's like, yeah, total victim mentality if I wanted to.
What good was it gonna do me?
It was like, figure out the problem and get through the crack in the door.
The gallery systems wouldn't take me, the museums wouldn't take me.
All the schools said that that stuff that I sculpted was like old fashion.
It's like old white men.
It's doesn't mean anything anymore.
And it's like,
It what would have happened if I listened to that and I was like, how do I break through
the system?
And so I applied for a uh, you know, a national memorial.
It there's always a way.
And this is the coping mechanism that you're talking about.
And I think everything we've been talking about is what makes our country so great.
It's the independence to be a free thinker.
You don't have to go along with the herd.
You can think of the solution, not the problem.
Figure out the solution.
You went from a crack in the door to going for the national monument.
That's pretty hilarious.
Well it was it was I love it.
You're like, and it's a little crack in the door.
I think I'm gonna go big.
Yeah.
Well it was because it was like I had to win a competition with three hundred and sixty
global teams.
And so it was it was a little it was like this little crack that was like you gotta you
gotta get through here.
And then it was like the we bust the door down.
We open a door.
We open it.
And then there's like all this light flooding through.
It is like because in the beginning, it's not like a big like uh you didn't win the
lottery.
You gotta work to win the lottery.
It's like thousands of steps to get there.
That crack in the door, the little light shining through is what I saw.
It's like, I'm gonna do this.
Yeah, I know.
Sixty feet, thirty eight figures, but well w we have seen
Uh what you've described in the art world, I see that taking place in the economics world
that the subtle message that's being told is that capitalism is bad and and socialism is
the solution.
And again, it's a subtle thing that gets to that point.
But in the midst of the socialized part of Washington, DC, they had to use a capitalist.
principle to pick which one's gonna be the memorial.
They had to pick one of 360 plus people.
And the competition, the drive, the doing the best is really the core of capitalism and at
the core of socialism, it's nobody matters.
We're all the same.
Everybody does the same and there's no greater personality.
And so I love the idea that in the midst of all that in DC, that you elevated, took your
God given skill and put it on display across from the White House.
Yeah, thank you.
Thank you.
It it's a very scary thing to me, this lack of um looking at history.
And socialism is just another word for communism.
It's just prettied up.
And it's been said many times that that communism is a very dirty word in our country.
So okay, let's change the words and we can fool all these people.
Didn't I mean I come from a very rebellious
Era.
Do you know the music that defined my generation?
I'm not making a pun here, like the Who, my generation, or uh another song that they sang
was I Won't Get Fooled Again.
You guys, the these young people, I'm not, I'm telling you, you're being fooled.
You're being promised a bunch of lies that will actually disempower you.
And and sure it looks like a bandage to all your problems right now.
And it's this utopia, but it doesn't exist externally to books in colleges by professors
that have never done anything in the external world.
They are working from a point of view that's idea-based in a classroom.
And the only reason they can continue down that road is because they get a paycheck.
It's called tenure.
Tenure track.
That means that they don't have to perform.
So if you were an engineer and you built the bridge that failed, you're gonna get deep
duty.
But if you have an idea that does not perform, nothing happens to you.
Nothing.
There's not no nobody coming down and suing you and bringing you to jail.
No, nothing.
And that's the problem.
These ideas suck and they need to be burned.
before the the our company goes down.
Saban, you might be encouraged to know that our youngest of four boys, uh, he listens to
stuff like Jimi Hendricks and the Who.
Good.
I love him.
That's like on his playlist.
And so the the young the young kids are gonna be okay.
Yeah.
Yeah.
There is there is a great movie.
Well I think it's a great movie from what I hear.
I haven't seen it yet.
But uh Young Washington comes out today.
And I am really looking forward to taking my family to see this.
You keep using the the word rebellion, and I think Washington, he he w he was a rebel.
He did things differently.
And one of the things I like about him as a capitalist is he owned a whole bunch of land
and he could have just gone off and done the land thing with with his with his wife, but
uh he decided to give back and and that's the charge to the capitalist today is hey,
what's on your mind?
Where can you be creative uh with the with the wealth and treasure that you have and what
does that look like on an individual basis?
And that that's where things can get pretty exciting.
That might mean just taking family out to dinner, taking a a friend out to dinner, giving
somebody a really good tip, but being a capitalist uh has a lot of awesome opportunities
on the give back side.
Yeah, it does.
It does.
I want to close with a couple things.
Uh one.
Saban, tell me about Tracy's documentary.
Is that out and available?
Uh Tracy's my wife.
Um, she filmed every day for nine years as we made the World War One memorial.
The movie is heroic, the making of the World War One Memorial.
Um, and Tracy's looking for distribution right now.
Okay.
It's gonna be coming out very shortly.
I would say by fall, by the end of the year.
We'll have distribution and this will go national and global.
Um it's not a talking heads movie.
It's the actual drama that happened in the studio with the making of it.
And it's so it's it's it's not boring.
It's gonna be real, I take it.
Yeah very much.
Very much.
Final question.
So the um the Grand Liberty Arch is
Set to be displayed in Salt Lake City.
Tell us high level about the Grand Liberty Arch and and the the passageway to a greater
future is what I envisioned it is.
Yeah, exactly.
Um I finished the World War I Memorial and I wanted to continue on the path of i going
bigger always, being my best version.
So I nobody commissioned me.
there's no governing body.
And so I had a message.
that I should make something for my country to celebrate the 250th.
Tracy and I got in a sprinter van back in 2025 in March and drove to Utah.
And that was about, you know, a year and a half ago.
And I was awarded land up at the Capitol, uh Utah State Capitol, a 1.37 acre site for a
park.
And now we will begin raising the funds for this monument.
I have made
A six-foot model of it, which will be unveiled on Monday, July 6th at 5 30 at under the
Capitol Dome at the Rotunda.
The arch is the history, it's a philosophy of our history of our country.
And it's all these stories that speak of the courage of these men and women that have
stepped into the void, driven by faith, to achieve their best version.
And that it's it's very much a sculpture of pride.
in country self-responsibility, agency, and manifesting your vision.
And it's the biggest figurative monument that our country's ever seen.
It's fifty-six figures and larger than life, going out all the way up to 10.5 feet, 60
feet wide and 36 feet high, and an arch.
It's a paradigm for a shift to redefine who we are in positive terms.
I thought I heard you say that
So fifty six figures and I thought in something I listened to that you spend six hundred
and fifty hours per figure.
Is that Yeah.
Yeah.
I think actually we did some math and um with five sculptors we're looking at a thousand
hours per figure on the reliefs because they're bigger and close to two thousand hours on
the figures on top of the arch.
So it's yeah, so this is gonna take a lot.
This is gonna take a lot.
Well, Saban, thanks for your time.
Thanks for your love for for our country and the people and just thanks for your
friendship.
I really appreciate it.
I do too.
Thank you too, Keith and Doug, for having me on and having this moment to share with you
on something that is so valuable.
I really would like other people to have this opportunity to look at how amazing and lucky
we are to have what we have.
Well, thank you very much.