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The Harvester Podcast is brought to you by the Florida School of Preaching. Listen weekly to take a dive into biblical topics and thoughtful studies on things that matter to our eternal souls.
This is for me.
This is Brian Kenyon with the Florida School of Preaching Harvester podcast and with me I
have
F San Amaceres.
and Steven Ford.
Have you ever thought about how truth and tradition interact with our lives as Christians?
Well, in today's podcast, we want to just explore that topic.
And of course, this season we have been talking about unity and how the brotherhood could
be more unified.
And so this truth versus tradition is a topic that is very important because as we
discovered,
Last week we talked about this a little bit.
Many times disunity in the Brotherhood comes from an improper understanding of how the
Bible teaches and how the Bible authorizes and how the different areas of obligation,
requirement, option, and those things, prohibitions, play and interact in the Christian
life.
And so
Today's topic, Truth vs.
Tradition, is one of those topics that we need to have a good understanding of.
Yeah, it seems like a lot of the unity issues, if you will, kind of get back to that,
right?
I mean, is this either you have people binding traditions where we're going to get into or
you have people, you know, flat out ignoring the good traditions, which are good
traditions, which we'll talk about.
But a lot of the issues seem to stem from one of those two one of those two departures.
Yes, very good.
And when we think about tradition, let's deal with tradition first.
That word tradition is not a cuss word.
It's not a bad word.
It's actually just the word just simply means that which is handed down, what is passed
down.
tradition has one of two sources.
Either tradition is from God that is passed down from God or it is passed down from man.
Now if it's passed down from God, it's always going to be correct.
It's always going to be, that is, you know, when we rightly divide the Word of Truth, that
is, it's always going to be good.
You know, whenever God passes down for His people, whether Old Testament or New Testament,
it's always going to be good.
And we have an instance of that in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 verse 15.
2 Thessalonians chapter 2 and verse 15.
Go ahead.
Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by
word or our epistle.
Okay, so there's something that's passed down and Paul's saying, whether by our word or
our epistle, and that word tradition is used.
And then 2 Thessalonians 3 verse 6.
Yep, but we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw
from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he
received from us.
And so there you have that word tradition in that case which he received from us the
Apostles again, that's what is handed down and and in that chapter 3 verse 6 notice that
tradition what is handed down from God is the Basis it's the measure of fellowship and if
somebody is not walking according to that being passed down
then he is disorderly
Yeah, and it seems like obviously the apostles as, you know, led into all truth by the
Holy Spirit, they have that office, for lack of a better term, from Jesus Christ, from
God's will.
They're able to pass those things down and kind of establish that tradition that is
binding on all Christians everywhere.
And if you don't follow that tradition, if you don't live according to that, then you kind
of by definition
aren't walking in the faith, at least not the faith of Jesus Christ as revealed in the
apostles.
Right.
There's also a note that when Paul is making clear where the tradition is to be sourced,
so I don't get the opportunity to say, well, this is a tradition around this congregation,
therefore it is authoritative.
Paul is making it explicit clear that this is gonna be an inspired tradition from he and
the apostles, that they are enforcing on the rest of the brethren.
Yes.
Or expecting, enforcing, expecting.
kind of both.
mean, there is, you know, if you don't if you don't keep the tradition you're withdrawn
from.
So, I mean, I that's the enforcement, you know.
And of course the source of that tradition is God, through the inspired apostles.
And of course we have it in the Bible, in the translations of our Bible, it comes from
God.
And so it's always going to be good when rightly divided, and when it's made the proper
application, is handed down from God is always going to be good.
Now if it comes from man, tradition is a man-made tradition, it may be good or it may be
bad, it may be evil.
If the tradition replaces God's will, then it is certainly evil and should not be
followed.
And a great example of that is found in Matthew chapter 15.
Matthew chapter 15.
Go ahead, Forrest, and...
Matthew 15 beginning in verse 1, then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem
came to Jesus saying, why do your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders?
For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.
Okay, now, is it a good idea to wash hands when you eat?
Of course.
Yes, in fact, COVID taught us that.
Of course, here it's more like purification things, but it's okay, it's good to wash
hands.
But to bind that and say you're gonna go to hell if you don't, that's a whole different
story there.
Verse 3, answered and said to them, do you also, so Jesus is speaking, why do you also
transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?
For God commanded saying, honor your father and your mother, and he who curses father or
mother, let him be put to death.
But you say, whoever says to his father or mother, whatever profit you might have received
from me is a gift to God.
Then he not need honor his father or mother, thus you have made the commandment of God of
no effect.
by your tradition.
Okay, and so that's a whole different situation and a couple of terms in there that
Forrest just read.
Verse three, why do you transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?
And so when a tradition transgresses God's commandment, then it certainly is no good.
And then on verse six,
He says there, thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition.
And so, and of course he gives the example of honor your father and mother, that's the
command from God.
But they say, and here's where the tradition, whosoever profit you might have received
from me is a gift of God, then he need not honor his father.
and so there's a lot of times where people take one commandment of god and say outweighs
another one and thus i don't have to do the other
Yeah, that's usually because one may be easier to us than another based on whatever, or
one may, you know, we may just favor it for whatever reason.
It's kind of like a pet thing that you might try to enforce on another person while you're
ignoring another because that's the one that maybe you excel in or, you know, people know
you for, but whatever the reason is still improper and you're pushing aside God's
commandment to kind of put your own in there.
Yeah, it seems like the Pharisees were kind of experts at that.
Sometimes we call it like majoring in the minors or stuff like that, you know, and
obviously Jesus called them out for that.
And Matthew 23 straining in that, swallowing a camel, you know, they're tithing the mint
and the dill and the cumin, but neglecting the weightier matters of the law.
Jesus says you should have done both.
So they certainly didn't have an, you know, some of their traditions seem to be, elevating
some of God's commands above others.
And by doing so,
We're making them of no effect.
We're kind of voiding them out.
Yeah.
And that kind of ties into what Jesus said in the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5.19,
whosoever breaks any of these least commandments and teaches men so shall be called least
in the kingdom of heaven.
But whosoever does and teaches them will be called great.
And so, but yes, there's a lot of people today who try to say, well, this commandment to
keep this exempts me from this one.
But that's not the case at all.
mean,
it's not either or but a both and right now when it comes to god and keeping his
commandments
Yeah, that's a good point.
And one passage doesn't abrogate.
an earlier passage there was a fellow I've conversed with once and he was saying that as
long as we do good to people and he's kind of citing from Matthew 25, as long as I'm
feeding and clothing and watering, then I don't have to worry about some of these other
doctrinal things because this is going to be the basis of the judgment.
And I said, well, that's not the only thing that Jesus says is going to be the basis of
judgment.
You're going throw away Matthew chapter seven or, know, Matthew 25 or not Matthew 25, Mark
16 or any others, you know.
I don't have to get baptized because I feed the hungry.
And just workspace salvation at that point.
And that's kind of where he was trying to go.
He wanted to give himself a license for some other things.
And so he went to Matthew 25 and said, as long as I'm doing good stuff, then that other
stuff is just kind of secondary.
Right, that's a good point.
And those are all instances of people taking tradition and overriding God's law with their
tradition.
And so that makes tradition an evil thing, a bad thing, because it takes us away from
God's law.
However, some human traditions, and I think the difference is a human tradition that helps
us, that expedites fulfilling what God says
Those traditions are good and we have two passages in first Corinthians 612 and then 1023
that both state About the same thing but all things are lawful unto me, but all things are
not expedient or helpful Or in the ESV.
What do you have there in the ESV for us for that word expedient?
Okay, yeah, thanks a to profitable and all those words come from come from that same Greek
word that does mean to your advantage profitable
And so when we think about that, you know, there are all kinds of things that
traditionally we use, like a songbook or some congregations have PowerPoint, and those
things are tradition.
They're just passed down, but they help us to expedite what God says.
singing songs of praise and worship, mean, songs imply words.
Now we can sing from memory.
We can sing from a book.
We can sing from a PowerPoint, wherever there's words, we have to have words for singing.
We have to have music and that music can be, of course it's acapella music without
accompaniment of mechanical instruments, but that music can be notes, shape notes, you you
talk a lot about shape notes.
It can be again from memory.
It can be antiphonal, you know, following the song leader, whatever, all kinds of ways
that that can happen.
And then somebody has to lead the song.
And so we can have a song leader, but all those things are traditional.
in the sense that, you know, God didn't directly pass them down to us, but they help us
and they expedite things when it comes to fulfilling God's commands.
And you don't see any of those supplanting what God has commanded.
You know, and I think that that's kind of the key that sometimes people miss.
know, like it'd be different if like here at Orange Street, just a couple of years ago at
the congregation where I preach, we started having, we still have song books, but we
started putting the songs up on the PowerPoint, you know.
Now the song leader got up there and said, all right, guys, we're not going to sing.
We're just going to read the slides in your head.
Just read the song in your head and we're going to advance to the next one when we're all
done.
That would be a problem, right?
Because now we've got
this thing coming in that's kind of canceling out, we are commanded to sing.
But if it's helping that without, and I know, you know, Georgia Beals touched on some of
this as well.
But I think that's a confusing part for some of these things is I remember one time I was
talking to a person and I said, hey, you know, our goal here at the Church of Christ is
we're just trying to practice the Christianity we can read about in the Bible, right?
We're just trying to get back to the first century, the book Acts, et cetera, et cetera.
And she said, well, do you have air conditioning?
Do you have pews?
And I was like, okay, yes, but that's like a whole, that's a different category of thing,
right?
We're talking about the air conditioning and the pews help us.
They're not necessary, but they help us obey those commands to assemble together, to
worship, et cetera.
And I think for some people, there's kind of a disconnect between those things where it's
like, well, if we have AC and pews, then we might as well have instrumental music.
And obviously this is a whole nother conversation, but those are a different category of
thing that I think sometimes people mix up.
That's why it's good that is that we see that tradition can be expedient when it.
accomplishes God's revealed will.
And not just, you know, we just throw that out there.
Well, it's God's will that we should, you know, be happy in worship.
God's will that we should do this in worship.
Right.
Well, what did he actually reveal?
He wants us to sing, okay, so what's going to help us carry out that revealed will?
So maybe the PowerPoint, maybe the song books, you know, whatever.
Having a person to stand up and lead the singing or whatever the case may be.
But it has to be what has been revealed in the Word of God, not just, you know, us
dreaming up something.
Yeah, and just because and I think to another thing sometimes we try to turn these things
into Almost like a corporate setting where we have to do the quote-unquote most expedient
thing You know, so once we get that PowerPoint we got to throw the songbooks out if you're
using a songbook You're in the you know what I mean?
Like that's not and it's almost like well, I could fly to a mission ship.
What if I want to drive?
You're saying, well, you can't drive.
You have to fly because that's the most expedient thing.
You know, it's like, well, we've got options there, right?
We've got, God's word allows us to have those options.
Now one may be more expedient than the other, but neither of them transgress what God has
commanded.
Yeah, exactly.
Because I'm turning a lot quicker than you guys.
But that doesn't mean you have to
Yeah
And we mentioned, of course, last few episodes ago, talked about George Beals talked
about, you can't go in a stolen car.
Right.
that's a tradition that would violate what God has already said.
And so expediencies can change.
And that brings us to this next point here on this particular episode.
You know, there's basically errors when it comes to promoting human tradition.
some for example like the Pharisees they are by promoting human tradition as if it were
god's word and you know like the washing of your hands you know the Pharisees would take
some of god's commands and they would make all these multi-leveled laws from that and bind
them on people and that of course is is error because it's binding where god has loosed
Yeah, and think you see that a lot with the Pharisees, but I think in our experience, at
least in my experience, is always a mixed bag where there's people and there's groups
where they'll simultaneously, and the Pharisees did this, simultaneously binding where God
has not bound and loosing where God has bound, right?
And you see that with the Pharisees where you got to wash your hands, otherwise you're
condemned, you're unclean.
God never said that right.
And then they're creating
rules around the commandments of God that have, you know, the Sabbath and things like
that, where they're trying to be more righteous than God is and create these commandments
that God never specified.
While at the same time, I don't really have to honor my mother and father, the normal
definition of that word.
I can, there's a workaround, there's a loophole.
And you see that in modern groups today.
And it reminds me too, I don't think this is in these notes.
You do have a reference here, you know, but in the book of Colossians, you had that
heresy.
where some of that was asceticism, where they're being stricter than God is.
And Paul says, it's of no avail.
It's not profitable to our goal.
But at the same time, they're worshiping angels and they're doing these other things that
God has said, hey, don't do that.
So sometimes, a lot of times, unfortunately, it's a mixed bag.
But you certainly see that with the Pharisees of binding where God has it bound.
And some of that binding with the Pharisees were doing, I think was born from a good place
initially.
I think they desired that people would go to heaven.
I think that they desired that people would be holy.
And so we would commend that in terms of wanting people to go to heaven, wanting people to
be holy, be righteous, and all those sorts of things, because that's what God commands, be
holy as I am holy.
But then we say, well, what is the method by which a person is holy?
And that has to be coming back to the traditions revealed from God's word and not
men and that's where they were going beyond.
They had a good initial purpose.
And that demonstrates that I think that we can go too far.
The story is told when I was a little boy that they used to put a cloth over the trays for
the Lord's Supper.
because they didn't have windows and air conditioning so they had to keep the windows
open, or didn't have ACs, had to keep the windows open, then flies would come in on it.
Well, is the cloth now, you know, holy?
But it's one of those things where you may have a good mind to do something, well, we
don't want flies to get in so people don't get sick or germs and all that kind of stuff,
but then it's like, well, now you can't make the cloth into something it shouldn't be.
yeah, that's a good point.
Yes, and when it comes to promoting human tradition as if it were God's Word, this kind of
is in the background of the Samaritan woman and when it came to worship, you know, our
fathers worshiped in this mountain, but you say, and so it's almost like, you know, here's
the tradition, which tradition is God's Word?
And of course, Jesus goes behind all that and talks about worship, true worship, and
worshiping in spirit and truth and such.
Yeah, and I think you hear that a lot today with, guys ever heard this phrase, faith
tradition?
You know, in my faith tradition, we do XYZ.
Well, in my faith tradition, we do WKL or whatever, you know what mean?
And it's like, okay, so what we're saying is these are, and it's very almost just like
kind of postmodernish and very just like, there's no objective, you know, well, this is,
this is what was handed down from the fathers, you know, kind of is like the same thing.
And you might have received something else in your tradition, but here's what we do in our
tradition.
And you can't say one's wrong and the other's right or anything like that.
And it's like, well, we've got to get back to the standard and see what God has said
rather than just tradition versus tradition.
think the woman at the well, obviously different context, but it's kind of the same vibe
where it's like, well, this is the way we've always done it.
Which one's right?
It's a way of kind of getting along though when you, at least when I have heard that being
used, it's usually people trying to say, know, nobody's wrong here.
That's just your tradition and we have our tradition.
What it's doing is lowering the biblical standard because it's saying, well, this is just
our tradition and it's okay because you have your own tradition.
using the terminology like that, it sounds like they're both equal, both the same.
So you can pick one path or you can pick the other path.
If one is biblical,
then it shouldn't be equated with the other or if they're both just Optional then you know
pitching both right and just get back to the Bible
Yeah.
Yeah, and that-
brings up the idea because when for said that yes i was getting to that point and i've
heard that for a long time about just your tradition that's just your tradition and when
you apply that for example the places i've heard it most applied was and it comes to
mechanical instrument of music and worship there's a lot of people that will say well
that's just their tradition the and they'll even add the stone campbell quote unquote
tradition of music and worship but that's just a tradition and god doesn't care and of
course, when they get to that point, they're loosing what God has bound.
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.
And obviously we see that with what God has commanded and what God hasn't commanded,
right?
And so the kind of music that God authorizes is not just a matter of tradition, but that
would be a matter of truth.
This is what God has revealed in His Word.
And so, of course, God has only authorized singing, Ephesians 5.19, Colossians 3.16, and
other places as well.
And so it's, you we would be an error to make truth a matter of human tradition.
And so some promote
human tradition as if it were God's Word.
I like how Jesus put it in perspective because she said our fathers did this and then he
says well the father came for true worshipers and here's what the father says and so he
really elevates the argument and you know it's kind of like you know what I appreciate
what you heard but here's what the reality of it is and that should kind of be the basis
of all the conversation is you know whatever my tradition your tradition is that's fine
but well what does the Bible actually say and then that should be the standard going
forward.
Yeah, absolutely.
And so the other extreme is people think that changing from one God-approved tradition,
human tradition, to another is equivalent to changing God's law.
And I mean, I can remember, I'm older than both of you guys, but not combined.
When they changed, you know, 10 a.m.
used to be the scriptural
Bible class time.
Oh wow.
Back when I was first a Christian and then when they change that to 930 man people kind of
thought we couldn't do that because that's you know that's unbiblical almost.
then we went to 930 with some protest and I'm sure there some people that left the church
over it maybe.
And then now it's nine o'clock as common for Bible class to start.
Too early for me.
but
I think you see that a lot.
Another big one today is, you know, the evening, Sunday evening worship service, you know,
because here at Orange Street, we started doing two worship services in the morning, I
don't know, a couple of years ago.
And some congregations do that, some congregations don't.
Some people have a problem with that.
And I think it's one of those sometimes I think a lot of traditions are like this.
You kind of mentioned it with the cloth of the Lord's Supper table.
You know, they did come in for a reason and for a purpose.
And sometimes that purpose is no longer there or that reason is no longer there.
Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.
And then once that's gone, can, sometimes we lose sight of where those things came from,
you know?
But that's, that's definitely another big one.
And even song books, some people, I heard somebody say one time, you know, God bless them.
love them.
They're still around.
Remember,
People make jokes about this, but this was really, we were changing the pews out and they
said, church pews are red.
Church pews are red.
There's no other color.
Church pews are red.
And it was like, well, they don't have to be, you know, but that was every congregation
you've ever been to, the pews were red.
Maybe you get that idea of like, hey, that's the color.
And if you change it, it's a problem.
But obviously that's not the case.
I never heard that one about the pews, I have heard about you know, especially the the
night service.
That's like a really yeah right now anyway a big argument I've seen several people do it,
you know the church eat church so to speak fellowship meal then go right back there's a
few congregations I know of that do a Bible class format and so they kind of Study
whatever the morning sermon was.
Yeah, so people can ask questions and kind of and I thought that was kind of neat There
can be some value there.
I guess, you know letting people kind of
what was taught in the morning sermon, have a more complex discussion about it.
yeah, but is one wrong or right?
It may depend on where you're located.
Maybe the congregation needs this more than that.
But when you change some of that stuff, man, it's a...
It's a really big deal.
You talk about resetting the evening worship to a class format and now all of a sudden you
get tagged with being a progressive or liberal or a slippery slope.
agent.
Yeah, all that kind of stuff.
But I guess it just comes back to what has God commanded us?
Exactly.
Let's just do what we find written.
If it's not in there, then we can have some liberty to stretch out a little bit.
But if not, let's just stick with it.
Right and the thing that's what it got to get back to what has got commanded and also
congregational autonomy You know the elders here have decided that for us.
This is what we're do doesn't violate God's That doesn't mean it's right for the
congregation in the next town over you know sometimes we forget that as well sometimes you
know
yes and autonoma thomas congregations that's important
because they can, the eldership there can, can rule on things like that for that
congregation based upon their needs and the things that they have going on.
But what they rule in that congregation, again, as you guys have already said, doesn't
always, it's not always the best way to do it in another congregation.
And so some congregations still have people that work Sunday mornings, nurses, things like
that.
So they choose to have evening services.
And so, it is a matter of choice and all those choices are,
lawful and expedient in the certain situations.
As long we're assembling and as long as we're worshiping in spirit and in truth the way
God put us commanded.
Now 1 a.m worship service, think you could, that might not be expedient.
You might be able to push back on that one.
Yeah, yeah.
And of course, some people that get off at midnight, maybe and I don't know, might, might
be, there could be a situation.
So that was.
So yeah, if there are a community of people where everybody worked, know, midnight shift
at a certain place, you know, I guess so.
Yeah, that's a good point.
Now the elders are just trying to lord it over the flock.
Hey, can we get these people to get here at 1 a.m.
and make God a priority?
know, that might be a problem.
But then that goes kinda back to what we talking about.
You might say, well, being that it's expedient, well, let's get to as soon as it turns the
Lord's Day.
Would that make us more holy?
So that could be one of those things that we go beyond trying to make something holy,
trying to make something the tradition that's not.
just, what's the Lord's Day?
Doesn't it mean the first second it turns midnight?
We have to be there.
Exactly, yeah, it can get to the point of being ridiculous, I guess, if we're not careful.
We're trying to make something into more or less wholly of a situation.
Yeah, and I understand where people are coming from.
I mean, we're kind of wired to not like change, you know, right?
Sure.
And there's good reasons for that.
But as Christians, I think that's the difficulty of we've sometimes we've got to put that
aside and get to OK, what has God commanded?
What is acceptable?
What is expedient?
Are there good reasons to make a change?
If so, you know, and we kind of talked about this earlier, I'm sure we'll get to this.
You know, the other side of that point is changing things just to change things.
You don't have a rhyme or a reason.
You just want to change the way we've always done it.
Yeah, exactly.
Which is on the other side.
And it might not even be unscriptural things.
It could be we're still in the realm of expedience, but let's just not do the things the
way we've always done them.
Just because.
You know, you mentioned that we are kind of hardwired to be resistant to change in some
ways, and that is valuable.
But that just, it just brought up a thought in my mind.
Why is it?
Because if you read your New Testament, it's filled with the fact that we have to
continually be changing, you know, internally, personally.
I have to, there's a new man, there's an old man, there's a continuing to grow.
So I shouldn't be...
Last year's Steven and the year before that Steven, so I need to be changing, growing.
I need to appreciate change and growth in you all and in my spouse and my kids.
So there's this one aspect that there's constant change.
Then there's another in the sense that there should be some consistency.
So you would think that we would be more balanced, I guess, than we typically are.
And just as cultural changes, we need to keep up with that in reaching the gospel to the
cultural changes, you know, because the gospel is designed to penetrate all cultures, you
no what side of the tracks you're on, no matter what's going on.
nationality, whatever, is made to penetrate that and as culture changes we need to change
along our tactics and our ways of evangelizing and things like that to help meet the
culture.
There are some, and I'm sure you've talked to them, that think you gotta go door knocking
and if you're not out door knocking you're not evangelizing and you're going to hell.
In a lot of communities door knocking is not as effective as it used to be.
Now there are communities where you can still do that but a lot of them
you're not even allowed in those neighborhoods, know, things like that.
And so, but we have to do those changes.
This is evidence of it now.
We're on a podcast.
You know, why aren't we all writing a half-page ad for the local newspaper?
Most people don't even get the newspaper anymore, you know.
Yeah, online.
But you know some sometimes it can be the case that we are just kind of stuck there was a
gentleman In Arkansas that was promoting writing an article to put in the newspaper.
So we should do this We should do this.
I thought well, I'm not gonna do it because I don't think it's gonna get the reach I would
rather do something, you on lines we can make sure on our at least our Facebook page We
know that there could be you know, a thousand people that can view it
on the first week versus you get how many doors are gonna get that newspaper and of the
people that get the newspaper, how many are gonna read that article?
If they see it, they're gonna just scroll past it or flip it over and use it to,
Don't eat the dog.
Discipline the dog.
Shoe the flies off the Lord's Supper because he didn't have the cloth on it.
All right.
Well, we've discussed some things here.
We're going to bring this episode to a close, but we'll have part two of Truth versus
Tradition in our next episode.
And so we hope you can join us on the Florida School of Preaching podcast.
you
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