[00:00:00.610] - Speaker 1
This podcast is sponsored by Zayner Blozer. Zayner Blowsr supports the Reading League's important mission and is committed to helping educators be successful teachers of reading by publishing effective science of Readingbased curricula. This includes the Superkids Reading Program and the Superkit's Family of Resources for grades K Two. To discover whether the Superkids Comprehensive Program Foundational Skills Kit, and new phonemic awareness curriculum are a good fit for your literacy goals and instructional approach, visit Go Zanerblowser.com League. That's Go Zanerbloser.com. Hi everybody. I'm Laura Stewart. Welcome to Teaching, Reading and Learning the TRL Podcast. The focus of this podcast is to elevate important conversations in the educational community in order to inspire, inform, and celebrate contributions to teaching and learning. I am very excited about today's guest. We have Angie Hanlon and Dr. Sam Duncan from New Madrid County School District, where Angie is the principal at Matthews elementary and Dr. Duncan is the Superintendent. I have the pleasure of working with both of them as they were going through a journey of transforming their school and this is a great story that I really am excited for everybody here. It's a story of relentless pursuit of success for the children of their district in their community.
[00:01:45.370] - Speaker 1
So I want to get right to the discussion. But before we do that, let me read you their BIOS so that you get to know Angie and Sam a little bit better. Angie Hanlin is a dedicated and passionate leader for change in schools and classrooms. She currently serves as the Building Principal at Matthews elementary where she works tirelessly to positively transform teacher practice and student achievement. She bases her career on the belief that all students can learn and perform at high levels of achievement when they are given highly engaging researchbased, instructional practices, and targeted specific interventions. She creates a growth mindset among her students, staff and community. Angie uses character education to shape and sustain a positive culture of collaboration and growth that is focused on learning. Angie has served her school district in the role of Curriculum Coordinator, Instructional coach, and Professional Development Coordinator, where she worked to train and coach teachers on effective instructional practices and strategies. She has received numerous awards for her performance in the classroom and has found a new passion for working with building leaders to promote systems to improve literacy for all students. Angie received the 2019 2020 Outstanding Rural Administrator Award from the Missouri Association of Rural Educators.
[00:03:02.860] - Speaker 1
And all those things about Angie's belief and passion, you will hear about that today. All right. Dr. Sam Duncan. Dr. Sam Duncan is the Superintendent of Schools for New Madrid County where he began his career as a high school English foreign language teacher. He has served as a middle school principal and central office administrator. Dr. Duncan has led New Madrid County through a series of heralded improvements and we'll be talking about those today. He is most proud of the continued support of the Board of Education in the promotion of student literacy. He touts an ever pressing commitment of his leadership team, as well as the tenacious efforts of faculty and staff to grow assessment capable learners and students who don't just read but read well. New Madrid County continues to drive toward being a wellordered, highly collaborative datadriven, impressively impactful, and globally consistent, yet individually responsive PreK through twelve educational community. So I love those BIOS, and I think you will really love this conversation. So thanks for listening. Well, welcome, Angie and Sam, I'm just so delighted to have this opportunity to speak with you. We've known each other for a long time, and it's just so good to see you, even though we're seeing you from a distance.
[00:04:30.430] - Speaker 1
So welcome.
[00:04:31.870] - Speaker 2
Same to you.
[00:04:32.510] - Speaker 3
Thank you. Great to see you as well.
[00:04:34.430] - Speaker 1
Laura, let's talk about your transformation story because I think that's the part that the listeners are really interested in hearing. So maybe we could start by talking about where your students were in 2015 and what kind of was the impetus for you making literacy your most important goal in all the improvement initiatives that you decided to tackle?
[00:04:58.270] - Speaker 2
Well, you are first.
[00:04:59.340] - Speaker 3
Okay, so I became the principal of Matthews elementary. In the 2015 16 school year. The school was coming off of a three year decline in two areas in the state on the state test scores, the Missouri Assessment Test, and also on their reading and math benchmark testing. At the time, we had aims. We have we now have a plus. But the end of your spring benchmark scores, those were even more concerning than the state assessment scores were because the benchmark data showed the spring before I started that less than 20% of the school population was on or at grade level in reading, and less than 10% of students were at grade level in math. The state test scores were lower. We had a building average of only 15% scoring in grades three, four, and five at proficient or advanced. The school also had serious issues with discipline and chronic absenteeism, which you take all those things together. And there was the low morale. We immediately began taking steps to improve. So right off the bat, we started working with only using research based instructional practices. And you've heard me say that before, Laura, and we started with the practices of John Haddy, especially with creating assessment capable learners.
[00:06:37.690] - Speaker 3
Then right after that, we started with training teachers in explicit instruction. And with that, we used all the work done by Dr. Anita Archer. Then we also added developing a growth mindset in both the teachers and the students. I knew they were going to have to have that because of being low. They were going to have to have accept that mindset, that growth mindset of we aren't there, but we just aren't there yet. So a few months into the school year, something happened that really triggered to get the work started. That's when I found out that Matthews had been identified at the time what was called a focus school. It's just a low performing school that is in her turnaround status. And that's when we really got busy and got to work that helped us develop a strong sense of urgency. We had a sense of urgency, but I wouldn't call it a strong sense, but it became one at that point, like, okay, we have got to turn this around. The very first step I took was to reach out to a few consultant friends, talk about some options about what we needed to do.
[00:07:57.980] - Speaker 3
And then we invited schools Cube to come on site, and they worked with us, not only our school, but the entire district for a few years. And that's when we began to look at systems and structures, and that's when we started setting up in our school and then also the district systems and structures. And that helped us establish a climate and environment of trust to do this work because this is hard work and you need that safe environment to do the work. My favorite part of the beginning work we did was establishing a building leadership team that gave every single person staff member a voice, that also gave them it was empowering to them. They were included in every single part of the work that was done. The work wasn't being done at them, all of it. They were collaborating and being part of that process. And also when you have a lot of change and when you're going to be going through a lot of initiatives, I then wasn't the only voice saying it. I was just one voice of a five member team of leaders, and we didn't have to have all the answers.
[00:09:19.750] - Speaker 3
It was always a problem solving session. Then when teachers saw that every single I know the work was hard, but when they began to see that every single thing that we were doing was, for one thing, for student growth, and then also following after that teacher growth, and when they saw that everything we were doing, even holding them accountable, it was being done to have them have the strongest impact, most effective impact they could have on their students. And when they saw that, they bought in, because then the data immediately started going up. And once that happened, it just continued to buy in more and more commitment to the work. And then also once they started receiving specific coaching, specific direction on what they needed to do and say in the classroom, then they started because of the systems that we were putting into place, they started experiencing, I feel like really for the first time, true deliberate collaboration. And then they started looking at data in a new way. And they started saying that if I look at this and use it to plan my instruction, to plan intervention, I can then tell and explain exactly why that data went up.
[00:10:57.720] - Speaker 3
And then after that, we started seeing teacher self efficacy, which grew into team efficacy. And it just continues that journey continues through to this day.
[00:11:14.150] - Speaker 1
Let me just pause here for a second, Angie, because I really want to elevate some of the things you've said because there's just so many rich ideas here that we really want our listeners to hear. So you have these kind of Dismal scores basically in your district and then being identified as a turnaround school, that was the moment, right, for everybody. Okay, I know you've shared this with me before, but talk about the discipline because I know you shared with me how many referrals like your first year as a principal.
[00:11:50.270] - Speaker 3
Okay. So two years before I became principal, there have been over 275 discipline referrals that year. The year before I started, there have been over 300. There were over 325. I don't remember the exact number discipline referrals. There were only about 150 students in less than 180 days of school. So what that told me was they were having repeatar, staying the same students, right. As I was talking to teachers. They were losing so much instructional time, lost to discipline. And there were students that were simply being I hate to say this word, I don't know any other way to phrase it being allowed, if you will, to opt out of instruction because they can see I can do this and get out of class. And so we had to look at immediately the way that we wanted to go about changing behavior. And we did it from the standpoint of really dedicating ourselves to the character Ed program that was in place and doing everything from the site of prevention to prevent those discipline referrals, having check in, check out with students. Always. We set up positive referrals so no student can come to the office on a disciplined referral.
[00:13:18.630] - Speaker 3
They could come on a positive referral if they were acting up in the class. I was going to the classroom and I was going to sit right by them because they had to fix their behavior. So then we started to turn those things away. When the teachers had every student engaged and every student in the classroom, then that also helps the score so that.
[00:13:45.180] - Speaker 1
Having student success is part of this engagement. And then that, of course, goes back to you're to only using these high impact strategies, training your teachers. What does it mean? What does explicit instruction mean? Really focusing on developing that growth mindset. I mean, all these things were ingredients that really impacted your teachers, that therefore impacted your students. They were part of this whole system. And I really like the idea that you bring up here about systems and structures and creating a safe environment because we can't change, we can't grow without that safe environment.
[00:14:32.770] - Speaker 3
And I do want to point out if it's okay, one more thing. The scores were so low, we had one grade that had a zero proficiency rate, zero. Not one child had been proficient. And those scores, when you are low performing school, it's so hard to hear those scores. But the great thing that the staff did, and I think this is important because I think any school going through this, this is the first thing you have to do. You have to own your data. You have to say, okay, this is where we are. And we have teachers that had to have the AHA moment of I have led the students there. This is where we have led the students. This is where we are. And I think right after that, then you've got to accept that this is where we are, but this is not where we are staying. So we adopted a motto and a word. The word was yet we're not there yet. These are the goals. This is where we want to be, but we are not there yet, but this is where we are and we own it. We also developed a motto, and the motto was it's still to this day is our motto.
[00:15:53.140] - Speaker 3
And it hangs in the data room. And it doesn't matter about the past because there can be so much blaming that can be done. It doesn't matter about the past. What matters is now. No blaming, only fixing. And this is urgent. And so that coupled with the word yet, it really did change the mindset of everyone, the students, the teachers, and also that our parents, and that, I think, really helped us develop a sense of urgency. We can't stay here and we won't be staying here.
[00:16:30.220] - Speaker 1
Yeah, well, and I love that it became a singular goal. You help your teachers really focus on this is all about our kids. And to do that, we have to have the honest conversation by looking at our data. And that, like you said, can be difficult. But a you all have a voice in this. Teachers, you are all empowered. We're going to collaborate on this, and it doesn't matter about the past.
[00:16:59.700] - Speaker 3
Right. And with the no blaming what we were able to do, we say a phrase that we still use if it ever gets tough, in a weekly progress monitoring data meeting or like our benchmark data meetings, we say leave the egos at the door because we are entering this room as a problem solving team. And when the first grade teacher enters, we all become a first grade teacher. In our weekly meetings, when each teacher goes around and shares their data, we all then, okay, if it's second grade data, let's all think it's second grade teacher. What can be done? And that is a mindset that I think is so helpful, because then if you ever have a bad situation, our district leadership team has that same mindset. There are real problems that we've had to work with, but we enter this room, we actually happen to be sitting in the room where the district leadership team meetings happen. We come in here, though, with one collective goal, and that's to solve the problem. I mean, we are a problem solving team, and it helps, I think, to have that mindset.
[00:18:16.350] - Speaker 1
Totally. Yeah. So, Sam, thank you so much for that. There's so much there, I think, for our listeners to really think about in terms of how you approach this, how you approach this whole thing, I think, was so instrumental in the success. And we'll talk about the success that you had from this initiative. So, Sam, from a district leadership perspective, how important it is for you as a Superintendent to really engage in this and to engage your board, how important is this?
[00:18:48.870] - Speaker 2
Initially, my objective was coming in in the spring of 2016, as Ms. Hanlon was really in the throes of making this work, was to identify as quickly as I could how to protect the process. And then she'll tell you the next question was always, okay, this was a win. This is a nugget. How do we replicate it? And we've always talked about even thought about this type of a moment because it's important for the Superintendent to be engaged, to protect the process, first of all, it's embryonic, if you will. You can't just let things go. My objective and I think for any Superintendent would be protect those things that are working. If it's working, fine, protect it. Don't just expect it to keep going. And I don't think that any Superintendent does that. But I also feel like that the importance of not sending an associate Superintendent, not sending a director of curriculum, but being involved in being there as much as you can in the RTI meetings, in the data meetings, in the building, leadership team meetings, because then when we all come back together here at the district leadership team, as Angie said, it's a problem solving session.
[00:20:16.840] - Speaker 2
But for me also, it's a knowledge creation session, and we talk about knowledge creation. So if the Superintendent is ever present in the conversations about the most important thing we do, which is instruction, and how do we promote annual growth for all students, how do we catch up students that aren't growing, then that Superintendent can become somewhat of a clearing house, if you will, for the knowledge creating process? Because then I know what question maybe to ask sitting here in this room to say, well, now, wait a minute. I saw this at your building. Do you mind sharing that? So there are a lot of reasons why we should be on point with these processes, and those are just a few that I know first hand because we do have people occasionally that will come around and try to circumvent. And initially the board was involved. So we were able to pretty quickly get the board around the table to say what's the most important thing we could possibly do. And that is teach kids how to read and not just how to read, but to read well. And so the board gets that it's their number one priority, and it has been for the past five years.
[00:21:30.700] - Speaker 2
So when somebody comes to us or comes to them and says, Gee, I really don't like it that I'm having to teach this or having to do that, or maybe we're doing too much of this and not enough of that. Like I said, to begin with, we take a step back because those points of frustration may have some value to them. But then we do have to really look at that standard as a board, as a Superintendent, and say, yes, but what Ms. Hanlon is doing, does it go directly into what we said is the most important thing we're here to do? And so then you have the system, the structure, and the order can take shade, which is where we started, which is how do we make this a system that's orderly, where you have the same types of things being talked about, building the building, the same language, building to building, never having all of the answers, but always seeking to create knowledge around the main topic. And that is in our district, at least when we started, 33% of our freshmen are reading on grade level is that our students are going to have to learn how to read.
[00:22:36.340] - Speaker 2
How do we get there?
[00:22:42.770] - Speaker 3
Having a system in place? He and I have this conversation a lot between us. Having a system in place allows you that even if you change out people and players, we won't always be here. Everyone that's on the district leadership team, we won't always be there. But if you get those things he uses the rates locked down. If you get those are locked in place. Okay, one of them, sorry, getting those locked down, then you can change out people. But the work continues, including us. And that's very important.
[00:23:20.490] - Speaker 2
Which is the most important thing is if you change us out, what happens next? So it's built into the principal evaluation tool. What do you do if a student is falling behind? What do you do if a class is falling behind? Tell me about the conversation you're having with teacher and what's happening, and tell me a success story. Then they have come up with the principles, the verbiage, and I put it in their assessment tool, and then they are assessed based upon some of the things that we want to make sure we institutionalize.
[00:23:48.300] - Speaker 1
Oh, that's fantastic. I want to just recap some of your thoughts here. So from a Superintendent standpoint, protect the process. Replicate wins. I love that phrase. Replicate wins. Relentless engagement on the ground level as a Superintendent, be there for some of these meetings so that you really know what's going on at the ground level. Knowledge creation across the district, board engagement and build capacity so that the work will continue. These are just really just such important points. Great. So who wants to share with us now? Where are your students? How has this transformation transformed your students?
[00:24:36.710] - Speaker 2
I'll start with scores in my wallet in the office. We started every year having the opportunity to immediately, as soon as we get state testing scores back, crunching the numbers as a principal team. But what happened was between 1617, 1718 and then to 1819 district wide, our reading proficiency at third grade more than doubled from 30% to over 60%. Our math proficiency at grade three more than doubled from roughly 28% to, I know, 65% efficient, 20, 18, 19. So from 2016 17 to 2018 19, we doubled district wide at all three elementary combined are reading proficiency grade three. And I do know that Ms. Hanlon can tell you some amazing numbers that she pulled off because, again, she started it and she was the one on the ground level. And the work that they're doing, her teachers are doing is something that we try to replicate. Share your numbers where you ended up.
[00:25:44.950] - Speaker 1
Yeah. So those numbers are really wonderful. Thank you for sharing that. And Angie, how about you, Matthews?
[00:25:51.580] - Speaker 3
Well, I want to first hit upon what happened to those discipline numbers, because the very first year, we had fewer than 20 discipline referrals for the entire school year, we dropped down to five. The second year, zero. And that's basically where we've been. We've had one over the last few years. It was a new student that came to us. He had been very troubled, really a history of failure. And so once he learned our system and got really and saw he was in an environment of trust and we started a daily check in check out with him. He never had another problem. So that's one of the statistics that's gotten better as far as benchmark scores. In the spring of 2018, we had a building average of over 80% of the school was reading not at grade level, but at the 50th percentile or higher. We were ahead of that in our middle of your benchmark in December of last school year. And we didn't get to do our end of your benchmarks. But our middle of your benchmarks, fourth grade, 92% of fourth grade was reading up the taller higher, 78%. 72% of fifth grade math was every bit as high.
[00:27:23.090] - Speaker 3
We had spots. We had grades that 100% of the students by December were already at the 50th percentile or higher. So our 2018 that's the last set of Map test state assessment scores we had. Our third grade, I always feel like, drumroll, please hit 95% of the students were proficient or advanced, with almost 60% being advanced. Fifth grade had 90% of the students were proficient or advanced, with again, overwhelming the majority of those students were advanced. And I do want to point out something, too, about current data because it's something that schools are going through right now because of the instructional practices that we've used. Even though we've been on a blended schedule, our students are still making gains. Our students are exiting out of progress monitoring. Their trend lines on Ain't. We plus are going up at each meeting. When we have we've got celebrations. We have more and more students that we can take off of progress monitoring. And Laura, I didn't know that would happen in this sort of year. I really didn't. This was an unknown for me. And our middle of your benchmark scores, the place where we saw that we did not have any students live were grades three, four and five.
[00:28:56.480] - Speaker 3
And it's because of the K Two Foundation that they had. And so those students are strong and they've been strong all year. Of course, we don't have the end of your benchmark scores yet. We're very hopeful this is a work in progress. So I don't know the other part of the data for my school, but also the district that is so important to bring out is the reduction of the number of students that are in special education. We have cut that number in half. We've been able to do that in Matthews and then also across the district and that number, our special Ed director always gives that frequently at our meetings and that number just continues to go down because what we've learned is that students that have a struggle or a problem in reading, they do not all have a learning disability. They just need targeted specific interventions to close the skill gap that those students have.
[00:30:06.870] - Speaker 1
And this is where your data comes in. This is that constant and relentless looking at your data. If this child has a gap, let's figure out what the gap is and then let's instruct to that.
[00:30:20.850] - Speaker 3
Can I share a quick story that I saw in a classroom yesterday? Yes, please.
[00:30:25.570] - Speaker 1
We love these stories.
[00:30:26.870] - Speaker 3
I've never witnessed this before and it was absolutely amazing. So our teachers all set. It's common practice with our assessment capable learners, procedures that we use to set goals, to set weekly goals for students and they're all based upon data. I was in a classroom yesterday and the teachers at the small group reading table with first graders and she goes around and it's their time to read to the teacher and she goes around to the six kids around the table and gives a specific purpose for that child to read out loud to her at the reading table. Remember, you are working on accuracy. Your fluency rate is where it needs to be, but you need to work on accuracy. She goes to another ship. Now remember your accuracy. You're reading with 100% accuracy. We're now talking about rate. She gets to another child and said yours is all about expression. It was a matter of seconds and she went all the way around. And I noticed on the corner of Rdesha progress monitoring data and notes that she had made. And it's that relentless pursuit of that data and using it to control what you say out of your mouth to your students, what you do with them, the goals you set for them.
[00:31:47.320] - Speaker 3
And every single student, as they read at the smaller reading table, set a specific goal that they knew. That's the thing that they were working on.
[00:31:56.460] - Speaker 1
Well, and think about that. Think about how empowering that is for the students because they're in on it. They're in on their goals as readers, and they know that you as a teacher, trust that they will be able to improve. But you're opening you're pulling the veil apart and saying this is where you are, this is where you're headed. How empowering is that? What were you going to say, Sam?
[00:32:19.960] - Speaker 2
So for the Superintendent, the thing that really will excite you as a Superintendent if you're a district leader. I visited with a principal this morning in another building, and every one of our elementary principals has at one point been a classroom teacher and an effective literacy coach. And so they are the physician around the table, if you will. I talk about Ms. Hamlin sometimes being house.
[00:32:54.270] - Speaker 1
TV show doctor.
[00:32:56.010] - Speaker 2
What's exciting is now when I go to the other principal or another principal, and this morning I did, and I sat with the principal, and immediately before I could say anything about next year or anything that might be strategic, she starts telling me about one of her teachers and the things that this teacher is doing, just like what you heard from Ms. Hanlon. So you start hearing the conversation when you walk in the door and sit down with the principal. That sounds like what Ms. Hanlon just said, and I'm sorry, but if you're a Superintendent and that doesn't excite you, I want to shake you right now and say, wake up. What she just said is what you want. Every one of your principals, those are the stories you want. And that's when you get excited. But it doesn't happen without the district leadership allowing these conversations, facilitating these conversations. And even to the point of when a principal says, hey, can I send a teacher to this building? I know that what they're going to see because I've been there is high quality. It's not just, yeah, let's go to see this teacher because I like this teacher and I want to hang out for a while today.
[00:34:00.630] - Speaker 2
They're going to get something from it. So you then start seeing across the district. You start hearing it coming back to you. The stories like Ms. Hanlon just told, maybe it's a little different level, but it's the same sort of a story about good instruction and why it's working and how it's working and talking about a student that was in need and how they know what the student needed and how they see the student actually growing, not just with their eyes, which is important, but also statistically on the numbers on the benchmarking, on the measures that we're using so that we can verify that it's real movement.
[00:34:35.580] - Speaker 3
And the story I shared was from that building. I was there. I had brought a new teacher to observe. That's a common practice. Yeah.
[00:34:46.110] - Speaker 2
It's spreading out as we try to keep this work.
[00:34:49.150] - Speaker 3
So that building principal and I had partnered to bring a brand new teacher in my building down to see that, and we all happen to see that at the same time. And then the debriefing, we were able to talk about that. And then we were sharing the other principal, other elementary principal and I were like, we've got to share that with everybody. But it's those types of conversations that we have on a regular basis.
[00:35:16.000] - Speaker 2
And then when you're middle school, I love it, or your high school principal starts having those conversations with you as opposed to we've got a child out of state schools act, or we've got this or that. And when your high school principal is sitting in a BLT meeting and they're talking about what they're going to do next to make sure they understand whether the science teacher knows they've got a student falling behind and they know that the child is reading at a very low level and the science teacher can recognize this and understands this and has access to understanding conversations. What do I do with this student who came to us or came up the line and just really doesn't comprehend what he or she is reading? What do we do about that now? Those conversations are happening, and that's when I think you start understanding as district leadership that this can be done at every grade level. And the real trick is can you focus on the annual growth and catching students up from the moment they hit your door PreK or whether they move in and fourth grade all the way until the time they walk out your door or walk across the stage at graduation?
[00:36:24.170] - Speaker 3
Yes.
[00:36:24.700] - Speaker 1
And I think that's what you're speaking to is the fact that this is all replicable.
[00:36:30.330] - Speaker 3
Absolutely.
[00:36:31.650] - Speaker 2
We've eaten and breed. How do we make this happen somewhere else? And you've heard me say it before, and it is kind of a fun thing to say is when I was a kid, I did something my dad said, when you did it once, can you do it twice? And did it twice? And he said, well, now you can do it anytime you want to, or at least you can do it again. You've done it twice. And that's where my mind was when we started this. And so I think that really is the lesson here. We haven't arrived. And I think that anybody around here would tell you we haven't arrived. But the efficacy talking about system efficacy, we're talking about team and system efficacy. That's where we started. And I think it was down at Plain Talk when I picked some of that up a few years back. But we started talking about that. And when that student walks in his Hanley's building and I was there when the student she said that was trouble. I was stubbing for her one day and the student came in and tore up a classroom. I'm not talking about yelling.
[00:37:28.570] - Speaker 2
I'm talking about tore everything off the walls. And she had to come back and clean it up. And I said, Miss Hamlet, I don't know what you're going to do. She said, don't worry about it. And I mean, a week from then, she had that student hand in hand with another student who had similar problems that her building had helped this young man through. And he was holding hands with this other student. And the young man turns to the student that was troubled and said, don't worry, I've been there too. And it was just an amazing these are six and seven and eight year olds, so it can be done. And then, of course, in my mind, as a Superintendent, how do we make that happen everywhere? How do we make that happen everywhere and bother her to death until she helps you make it happen everywhere?
[00:38:13.590] - Speaker 3
He publicly acknowledged that. Thank you, Lord. He publicly acknowledged that.
[00:38:19.350] - Speaker 2
I'm just saying I'm an honest man.
[00:38:21.780] - Speaker 1
It's on tape forever now.
[00:38:23.910] - Speaker 3
I've got that recorded. Thank you, Laura.
[00:38:26.850] - Speaker 2
I don't believe it.
[00:38:28.240] - Speaker 1
And I have to say, when you said, Ms. Hanley, what are you going to do? And she's like, don't worry, I got it. That does not surprise me at all. Knowing you, Angie, that does not surprise me. Don't worry, I got it.
[00:38:40.560] - Speaker 3
And you know, the thing about that is when you do this work, it's not about arrogance at all. It's about though you've done it and you know you can do it and you know you can do it again. It is empowering and it builds your confidence.
[00:38:56.700] - Speaker 2
Since then, we've had students I'm like.
[00:38:58.270] - Speaker 3
No, I've got this.
[00:38:59.710] - Speaker 2
Come to our district wanting to pay tuition to get what they need from other districts. And a lot of times they're the most troubled schools or troubled students. And we don't have a lot of capacity here. But if you've been in education very long, you've had the conversation with the principal who says, oh, my gosh, this kid came in from this state. They're a lost cause. There's nothing we can do about it. We don't know what we're going to do. And it is refreshing when you feel like your principles. Their first step is, I think we can do this. That's a completely different mindset.
[00:39:39.250] - Speaker 1
Right? And I think what you said, Angie, when you said that we can do this, you're also showing faith in the student. You have faith. This student can improve his behavior. This student can be a capable learner. You're showing faith in that student.
[00:39:57.970] - Speaker 3
I based my career on that?
[00:40:00.500] - Speaker 1
Yes, absolutely. Just maybe summarize for us, how are you going to sustain all this? Kind of what's your plan as you continue to move forward? I know you talked about building capacity, but how are you continuing to sustain this level of growth, although that may be not a fair question with Covet, but kind of what are your plans to sustain this achievement to continue to grow?
[00:40:30.870] - Speaker 2
Well, number one of your hiring practices. So we do have a specific list of 14 or 15 characteristics we look for in a building leader, and we have stayed true to that. It truly does all rise and fall on leadership. Sustainability rises and falls on leadership rises and falls on the character of the leader and the knowledge of the leader and the beliefs of the leader in that scenario. And then Miss Hanlon worked diligently to develop the right kind of interview rubric for our incoming teachers. And so everybody that's going to teach the district has to go through an interview process with three to four people in the room. It's not as extensive as our administrative interviews, but hiring is where you get your gain. Hiring is where you lock it in. And it does go back to the old scenario about you make your money on something when you buy it, you make it sustainable. When you hire people and you work with them and you go through all the processes that everybody knows. But the other thing is then when you have the right people, deep inclusion of those who are closest to the work in whatever decisions you can make, it's not going to happen with every decision.
[00:41:52.950] - Speaker 2
But I say that because you have to have the right people in the room before the deep inclusion of those people closest to the work moves you forward, and it takes time. But that's what I think is sustainability. And that is one of our main drivers, is to try to make it sustainable.
[00:42:09.430] - Speaker 1
Great. So hiring practices, good rubrics, deep inclusion of the people that are closest to the work. Yeah. Angie, how about you tell us about your plan for sustainability?
[00:42:21.080] - Speaker 3
Well, I'm the elementary principal, but I also do curriculum and professional curriculum and professional development coordinator for the district. So one of the things is just to continue we've been able to do this a little bit each year, but to continue to put valid, reliable, high quality curriculum resources in the hands of the teachers, things that we know are research base, have a history of proven success and to actually give them the very best resources that they have and then to continue as far as professional development to sustain this work, this is not a one and done. You can't do one training, say, oh, well, I trained them on science of reading. They're good to go. That is complete, total myth. So to continue to deepen the knowledge base of our teachers and provide them with the very best professional development that we can. And that is something that is constant in the work of a school and a district, because you can't just know something and then say, oh, yeah, we had that five years ago. So we're good. There's constantly new information out. We are constantly pushing out new information. The latest from the Reading League, the latest from really great reading, something that comes from David Kilpatrick.
[00:43:50.930] - Speaker 3
We're constantly getting that information out to the teachers. And as Dr. Duncan said, we've still got a lot of growth to make. We have an arrive, we're not done. So this is constant work. But I also want to just continue and deepen the understanding of how data is the tool that we need to use to drive our instruction and our interventions. We recently had a meeting at the middle school and high school level that was so exciting. And we've really made some connections and some AHA moments of the next steps to take at the middle school and high school level. And then two, to continue to deepen and develop the level of where our teams are. We're in a great place, but just to strengthen the system of the district leadership team and the structure of the building leadership teams and the work that we do there. I personally feel that it's like we get better all the time, you know, I mean, but it's something that is tweaked. We make tweaks and we make changes all the time. All the time. And then if we ever become stagnant, or maybe it's not stagnant, but if he gets a whiff of maybe it's becoming stagnant, it's asking us more questions.
[00:45:14.450] - Speaker 3
Okay, so then what's next? I mean, it's just that driving force that never, ever stops.
[00:45:21.840] - Speaker 2
If it does, then we stop. And you mentioned the mission or we mentioned the mission earlier, and I think that we're blessed to have had a school that needed this kind of assistance because it was an eye opener. I don't think the entire district saw itself in that way. But we still have to see ourselves as a district that has to keep growing, and we have to Nag at it. It's daily. It's Nag at it, Nag at it. And it does get tiresome. But that's why we're doing what we're doing as educators around the world. If it's not, then we're in the wrong profession.
[00:46:04.110] - Speaker 1
I totally agree. We have to keep our eye on the goal, never let up, and always keep growing, always keep moving forward. So just as we're looking to kind of bring some closer to our conversation, which I think we could talk on this all day, really. But if each of you could just give one what's one piece of advice that you would offer other leaders who are poised to begin this literacy transformation that you began in 2015. One piece of advice. Let's go with Sam first state, of course, go.
[00:46:40.930] - Speaker 2
But also know there's only one way there. I mean, there may be a range, don't get me wrong, but if you veer off and go that direction, you're never going to find it. So pay attention to research. Pay attention to the people who are in the know. But don't hesitate to help yourselves by creating some knowledge and checking your own math internally.
[00:46:59.600] - Speaker 1
Great.
[00:47:01.210] - Speaker 3
Is start the work. Just start. Take off, because this is doable and we can do this. So just start the work. Wherever you are. Begin. You know, it's easy to say, well, we'll begin with our next Superintendent. We're getting a new Superintendent. We can start the work, then we've got it. No, not here. We need a new curriculum resource. So we'll get the curriculum and then no, start the work. Begin, because the time is right now. This work needs to be done right now. And except where you are and own it. Wherever you are. Building leaders just own it because you are not staying there. You're there now, but that's not where you're going to be set and develop that sense of urgency. And then two, give yourself permission. I'm going to speak just for a second. As a building principle, only give yourself permission to be that building leader and lead, because that's what the students and teachers need you to be. They need you to be the leader. They need you to be a strong leader. They need you to be the instructional leader of that school. So be it. Get in those classrooms, have the hard conversations, do the hard work.
[00:48:29.790] - Speaker 3
And two, never, ever give up. Our students need us to do this work. They need us to do it. So no matter how hard the day is, no matter how hard the situation is, don't ever give up because they need us. And this is my personal opinion here, but I believe it is our moral obligation as educators. But the message is we can do this work and we don't have to have all the answers. Reach out and ask for help. I do it all the time. Laura. I've sent you questions. I have a wide group of people. I've texted Pam Castner this week have that group of people. Because when you do this work, you will come many times to a place when you won't know what to do. And you don't have to know because there are other people that know. Make sure that the people that you're asking are the people that are grounded in research and the science of reading. And they know that research because those are the only voices that can steer this work. And that's why. Thank you for the work that you and all of the folks at the Reading League are doing.
[00:49:57.360] - Speaker 3
And I know I get nothing for plugging that, but it's so true.
[00:50:00.800] - Speaker 2
But we're in great.
[00:50:01.430] - Speaker 3
You got to have a resource. You've got to know, too, where the correct voices are that we need to listen.
[00:50:09.610] - Speaker 1
Well, thank you for that. Really. Thank you. I'm just going to recap for our listeners. One, there's a place to go. Stay the course. Two, start the work. Three, accept where you are and own it. Four, give yourself permission to lead. Five, never give up. Our students need us. This is our moral imperative. And six, reach out and ask for help. And make sure the people that you ask for help are grounded in the science of reading research because. Great. Well, okay. So. Oh, my goodness. Well, first of all, I just have to say Congratulations to you in the work that you're doing. And you are both such courageous leaders as you were talking about your story. And you're courageous in that you dug in, you took risks, you're constantly learning from what you've done as you continue to move forward. And I just applaud that. And I know our listeners will really appreciate hearing your story. And Angie, in the introduction, I shared that you received this outstanding rule administrator award. And I'm sure after listening to your story, our listeners can understand why that was so. Welldeserved, Congratulations on that.
[00:51:30.760] - Speaker 3
Thank you very much. That's something that I was so proud to accept because it was the outstanding principle. But I knew and everyone in that building knew I was not leading that building by myself. I really felt like that was an award for the building leadership team because it's a team of leaders that lead that school.
[00:51:53.470] - Speaker 1
Exactly. Well, thank you. So I can't let you go without our rapid fire questions.
[00:51:58.650] - Speaker 3
Okay. All right.
[00:51:59.860] - Speaker 1
And this is I ask everybody these set of questions. So really quick, who was your favorite teacher growing up and why? Angie?
[00:52:09.430] - Speaker 3
Okay. Mrs. Bollinger was my favorite. She read to us every day after school, set in a rocking chair. She read me Charlotte's Webb and the Boxcar children, and I'll just never forget her. I know. Loved it.
[00:52:22.440] - Speaker 1
Sam, how about you?
[00:52:24.190] - Speaker 2
Ms. Jean Whitaker was my first grade teacher. And Miss Jean caught me at a football game one night, and my mom and I were walking into a football game. Her son played football. And I said, hey, JW. And my mom went for the backhand and Miss Whitaker grabbed her and said, oh, it's okay. We're studying initials. She said, hey, SDD. And she was just my favorite. She told me my phone number. She brought the at and T guy or the Southwestern Bell, whoever it was. Then in with telephones. And I remember having a pumpkin thing with my first words on it. Go and stop. And I also remember trying to cheat on my first Testaments Whitaker's classroom because I couldn't remember how to spell the word yes. It seemed like it should start with a U or a W. And I couldn't figure out how on Earth any other letter could make that yes sound. So anyway, Miss Jean Whittaker. But just a Saint. She passed away a few years ago. But what a wonderful lady.
[00:53:22.540] - Speaker 1
Wonderful, wonderful teacher influences. Okay, what is your favorite book, either as a child or as an adult, and you probably have more than one, but just pick one so Sam will start with you.
[00:53:33.000] - Speaker 2
Okay. So when I got out of College, I started reading. I didn't read a whole lot as a kid. Sean Keen, The Violinist Thumb. It's a story about DNA, and that starts out with this guy's Thumb that went like this and he could play the violin like crazy. And how DNA and science impacts our lives.
[00:53:52.820] - Speaker 1
Interesting.
[00:53:56.990] - Speaker 3
There are so many because I'm just an avid reader. But took Everlasting. I taught fifth grade the majority of my career, and I always loved that book. But teaching that book and the rich language and all the figurative language and that's just, I guess, my absolute favorite tuck everlasting by Natalie Babbitt.
[00:54:19.620] - Speaker 1
That's so wonderful. Yeah. Okay. What are you reading right now?
[00:54:26.150] - Speaker 3
Collective Efficacy, How Educators Believe Impact Student Learning. I hope I get her name right. She's one I'm, you know, really trying to follow up that she's saying right now. But Jenny Donahue Donahue.
[00:54:44.030] - Speaker 1
And by the way, I'll just let the listeners know I'll put all these recommendations in the show notes.
[00:54:50.030] - Speaker 3
Great.
[00:54:50.670] - Speaker 2
I'm on the Fielding Fair. Rosier, text Angie I can get my hands on. So Angie comes in and I'm reading the old hook of annual growth and catch up growth because I feel strongly that we've got to really simplify things as leaders. And for me, I have a couple of people running for school board, and they came in to talk to me and I said we're about one thing right now, and that is either Annual Growth or Catching Students Up Who Are Behind.
[00:55:16.490] - Speaker 1
So what's the name of the book again?
[00:55:18.590] - Speaker 2
It's the Field Incur. And Rosie or Text. It's Catch up Growth for Those Who Are Behind.
[00:55:28.790] - Speaker 1
Okay.
[00:55:29.530] - Speaker 2
It's Annual Growth for all students. Annual Growth for all students and Catch up Growth for all Who Are Behind.
[00:55:36.710] - Speaker 1
Okay. Got it. Okay, next question. What do you have on your desk that symbolizes you or is dear to you?
[00:55:48.090] - Speaker 3
There are two books that always sit on the right hand corner of the back corner of my desk, right in.
[00:55:55.480] - Speaker 2
Front of the stress balls. I use those when I go to visit.
[00:55:59.990] - Speaker 3
I do have stress balls that sit on the corner for a student comes in and they're, you know, or a teacher comes in stress. Yes, I do have stress balls set on the front right corner, on the back right corner. Two books. And they are John Haddy's Visible Learning for Teachers. And on top of that, it is one of my favorite explicit instruction by Dr. Anita Archer. I'm a visual learner. They are a visual reminder of me constantly of what my work is. And two, those things are so tabbed. Those two in the Essentials Book by David Kilpatrick. I mean, I reference constantly, but those two sit on the corner of my desk just as a reminder of the work that I'm doing each day.
[00:56:48.530] - Speaker 2
And if John Haddy is listening, please, I would have told you the favorite thing in her book has Got to be something by John hadty. You could have called back years ago yesterday. It'll still be that book for me. Ironically enough, it's a picture of Ms. Whitaker. I have a picture of my I've had it on there for several years now. Nobody ever asked. So I'm going to tell you, I have a picture of Ms. Whitaker after she retired, holding over her black puppy that her son gave me. And daughter in law just said, hey, you might want this. And that sits on my desk. But it does remind me daily of why we're here.
[00:57:25.650] - Speaker 1
Why we're here. Yeah. You got the picture of JW on your desk.
[00:57:30.090] - Speaker 2
Jw is sitting right there, and I am not letting JW down.
[00:57:33.350] - Speaker 3
And Laura, I also always keep a note from a student on my desk.
[00:57:39.320] - Speaker 2
Oh, that's good. I didn't have that one.
[00:57:42.370] - Speaker 3
I change them out sometimes, but I always keep one there just if I'm having a bad day.
[00:57:52.210] - Speaker 1
Can you recall the one you have there now?
[00:57:54.090] - Speaker 3
I do. I wrote it down so it says, Dear Mrs. Hanlon, thank you for teaching me to read. You just have to know this child. I love you, Mrs. Hanlon. You're the greatest principal ever. And now I can say I am a breeder.
[00:58:11.650] - Speaker 2
That's wonderful.
[00:58:13.410] - Speaker 3
That's on my desk right now.
[00:58:14.760] - Speaker 2
That's good.
[00:58:16.150] - Speaker 1
Oh, my goodness. Okay. So thank you for that last question. What are your greatest hopes for today's children?
[00:58:24.850] - Speaker 2
Oh, my gosh. So I'll jump on it, because when I started here in 16, I don't think anybody would say we weren't going through a dark time. We just lost 3.1 million. We lost one 6th of our operating revenue overnight when I signed my contract in January of 2016. And then shortly after that, a student passed away tragically in a car wreck. And I was going through the halls one day, and it was just a matter of I have a daughter that's coming to this place next year. I remember thinking that, but I can't just think about her. But I thought, what do I want for her? I want her to be prosperous. Happy is a big word, but to be prosperous, to be fulfilled in their lives, to have gainful employment and to feel like they are contributing to their world and their society in a way that's meaningful to them. And all of that kind of wrapped up. And I want everything that I want for my own kid. And I think that as educators, that sometimes it's easy to think that way and sometimes it's not. But that was one thing that kind of stuck with me.
[00:59:32.080] - Speaker 1
Yeah, that's nice. Sam? How about you, Angie?
[00:59:35.890] - Speaker 3
My hope for today's children is that schools as schools and teachers that we get this right for them, that every single student learns to read at or above grade level and they see the power that that gives them because reading really does put them on a different path for life and I just want that everything I do, I want every child to be able to be a reader and then to see what power that gives them because to me, literacy is the greatest equalizer of all. It gives children a different path, a pathway out of poverty. It puts them on a different pathway for their life. And I just want every single child to learn that they can accomplish anything they can do or be anything that they set their mind to amend.
[01:00:33.430] - Speaker 1
It wonderful. Well, I think we can end on that and I just want to again, thank you for this time. I know you're such busy people, but I really feel like your passion, your mission is so apparent and it's so strong and your story is compelling. So I know this will just be a really rich and wonderful discussion that we can share with our listeners, so thank thank you. You.
[01:00:59.530] - Speaker 3
Bye. Thank you. Bye bye.
[01:01:05.330] - Speaker 1
Start the work, stay the course, accept where you are and own it. You're not going to be there forever. Give yourself permission to lead, never give up and reach out for help if you need it. These were some words of wisdom and advice from today's podcast guests Andy Hanlon and Sam Duncan. I hope you enjoyed today's podcast. I really enjoyed hearing their story and their inspirational message. So if you enjoyed this podcast, if you enjoy our podcasts, please rate us please give us feedback. It's really important that we hear from you. We at the reading League really want to serve you and your needs as educators so everything of piece of feedback is really important to us, so please do that. Yes. All right. Thank you. We hope to see you next time. Bye.