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Feeling overwhelmed by your family's daily grind and looking for a way out? Welcome to "Dig the Well," the podcast that empowers you to build the life you deserve. Your hosts Vikki and John are top earners at Neora. Vikki is a # 1 best-selling author and John is a retired Los Angeles Police Officer. Together they’ve navigated family challenges, raised successful kids, and achieved financial freedom.
In each episode of "Dig the Well," they dive deep into the strategies and mindsets that can help you break free from the constraints of the traditional 9-5 lifestyle. They understand the unique challenges faced by stay-at-home moms and families who are juggling multiple responsibilities and struggling to find balance. Their mission is to provide you with the tools and inspiration you need to create additional income, gain more family time, and ultimately, transform your life.
Throughout their journey, they’ve had the privilege of working with renowned figures like Jack Canfield and Jeff Olson, whose wisdom and insights have greatly influenced their path to success. They’ve also celebrated significant milestones, such as raising two valedictorian children and supporting their son, an Olympic weightlifter on Team USA. These experiences have equipped them with valuable knowledge and practical tips that they’re eager to share with you.
"Dig the Well" is more than just a podcast; it's a community of like-minded individuals who are committed to personal growth and financial independence. Whether you're worried about your family's financial security, longing for more quality time with your spouse, or simply seeking a way to reignite your passions, this podcast offers actionable insights and real-life stories that can help you achieve your goals.
Our mission is to inspire you with the belief that if we can do it, so can you. We want you to feel empowered, educated, and ready to take control of your future. By tuning in to "Dig the Well," you'll gain the confidence and knowledge needed to break free from the daily grind and create a life full of possibilities.
So, if you're ready to transform your family's future and discover the greatness within you, join us on this journey. Subscribe to "Dig the Well" and start building the life you deserve today!
This is the EWN Podcast Network.
John:Ever wondered how you could turn your side hustle into a full time gig and spend more time together?
Vikki:Hi. I'm Vikki, a number one best selling author.
John:And I'm John, a retired Los Angeles police officer. Welcome to dig the well, where we help couples navigate the world of business.
Vikki:We've been married for thirty five years, and because we built a successful side business, John retired nine years earlier than he originally planned from the Los Angeles Police Department after twenty five years on the job. Now we spend more time together, and we want to help couples like you do the same.
John:Join us as we help you overcome common obstacles, and we show you how to make extra income without sacrificing family time.
Vikki:Ready to dig deep and build your well? Let's get started. Welcome back to Dig the Well. Welcome. Welcome.
Vikki:Welcome. It is October 2025. I can't believe it, John. It is crazy.
John:You're going by fast.
Vikki:It has gone by so fast. And, we're back again to talk about one of our most watched and listened to a subject matter subjects, and that is travel. And specifically travel right now during the holiday season coming up, there's gonna be business travel for a lot of you. There's gonna be personal travel for a lot of you. And, John is our family expert.
Vikki:I think he's the be all end all expert on travel. He doesn't do it for a living, but he does all of our travel and has learned so much. One thing about you, John, I know maybe the listeners don't know, but any topic, that we're working on, he researches it thoroughly. Anything even if we're not working on something, you're like a researcher. You learn.
Vikki:You teach yourself stuff. You always have since I've known you. Yeah.
John:Yeah. I've always known that.
Vikki:Yeah. And it's awesome. So I totally trust everything he says because he's done so much research, and it always turns out to be true. We've talked about that as well on this podcast where where I think I'm right and almost 100% of the time, I will say he turns out to be right because he he's researched whatever topic it is, and he can he remembers, and I don't. Yeah.
Vikki:So we're gonna talk about travel. And those of you that are, subscribers, thank you. Those of you that are part of the Dig the Well family, we're excited you're here. But you might remember that we did an episode, and it was episode 26. So after listening to this, if we've kinda wet your whistle, you could go back to that.
Vikki:Episode 26 is one of our most listened to episodes, and we're gonna dive into that. And I'm gonna be the interviewer. Is that okay, John? Mhmm. John's gonna be the interview he's gonna be our guest today.
Vikki:So let's dig right in. And we're flying by the seat of our pants just like in the plane, today because, I had notes on it, what I was gonna ask, and I misplaced them. And I'm not gonna worry about it because, actually, I think our pad podcasts are the best when it's just on the fly, us just chatting. So my first part of the travel segment here that I would love us to talk about is air travel. And we're gonna end up talking a little bit about hotels and things like that, where to stay.
Vikki:But air travel. Okay. So I know that there's so much out there about air travel, these days. Right, Jean? People are booking their own flights for the most part.
Vikki:Yes. They could use a travel agent, but a lot of booking. Or is that is that what you found too?
John:Seems like it seems like it's so easy to do now online. Mhmm. That before, it was almost impossible, I would have would imagine, before the Internet. So most people were using I remember if everywhere you went, like, would go to a mall, you go to a shopping center, there was always some little travel agency.
Vikki:I know. It's so true.
John:And you know, I I I can't remember the last time I actually saw a physical Yeah. Location for a travel agency, and I know they're still out there.
Vikki:They are.
John:Yeah. But most people are booking either their own or I know a lot of people use OTAs, which are online travel agencies. So it might be Priceline, Expedia, trivago, those are all OTAs. Mhmm. And there's, you know, there's good and bad with using, whether you use an OTA or an actual travel, you know, old school travel agent.
John:Okay. There are some good things about using, especially the old school travel agents. They get some really cool Yeah. Deals, and and if if you're planning like a vacation or something, I know they can they usually have contacts and can plan really cool experiences.
Vikki:I
John:know we were just in Dubai with our son and our daughter-in-law, and that was what? A year ago? Two years ago?
Vikki:Yeah. I think it might be coming up on two years
John:ago. Years. Yeah.
Vikki:Time flies.
John:I think it was two years ago this December. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And they we used a we didn't use a travel agent for our our actual booking of flights and whatnot, but there was one hotel we stayed at in Dubai that was booked, arranged through the travel agent, and had some really cool features.
John:It was probably the I would say that was probably the nicest hotel room we've ever stayed in. Yeah. Maybe even better than the Ritz Carlton in Tokyo. Yeah.
Vikki:It was awesome.
John:That thing was pretty cool. Yeah. But, anyways, the point is there are times to use them, times not to use them. We generally don't. We generally just book everything ourselves online.
Vikki:Yeah. And I actually had a travel agent friend who, told me to go ahead and book my own flight. So this is, like, ten years ago. Maybe maybe when I first started Neora, was maybe thirteen years ago. And I said, why?
Vikki:Is it because you don't get a kickback? Or I forget her reason. Do you know the reason for that?
John:Well, might be well, it depends on on if you had status with the airline that you were flying with, and this the same philosophy holds true. Well, it's a little different too with with rental cars and and hotels when it comes to travel agents and whatnot, but oftentimes, if you book through a travel agent, you don't get elite credit. If you're chasing status, you won't get elite credit for.
Vikki:Okay. I thought it was something to do with money that she couldn't get it any cheaper, that I could find it cheaper. Could be. I'm doing it on my own. Thought that's what she said.
Vikki:Yeah. So and I like the flexibility because I know you and I, maybe it's our type a personalities or what have you, but we like to be in control of the timing that we pick. Right? And we like to know the choices. And sometimes travel agents, I feel like they hone it down so much that they give you, like, one option or a couple, and we I don't know.
Vikki:I like to kinda know all the options.
John:Yeah. Because that may be all they have available to them too at that consolidator fair that they may not have every flight available to them. So they're gonna give you what they can book for you.
Vikki:Yeah. So what have you found is the best way to get the best deal? Like, for example, do you and I know the answer to this, I'm kind of leading asking a leading question, but do you, use Google Flights, go there, look at all the flights, and pick the cheapest one, or are you exclusively sticking with one airline?
John:Yeah. So the first part of the question about using Google Flights, that's a great, resource to look to get an idea of what flights are available. But also keep in mind that Google Flights isn't always a 100% accurate. I've I've found that when I've done a search with a specific airline on their own website, there are other flights that are available that just didn't appear in Google flights, or oftentimes, I'll find a flight in Google and I'll try and book it, and it's not available any longer. And it's certainly not at that price.
John:Even when you book it through the link that Google Flights has, because like, if you've used it before, and if you haven't, this is how it works. You choose the where you're going, where you're going, where you're flying from, where you're flying to, the dates, and there's other tools on there, calendar views, price, date graphs, and different things where you can try and find the best the best deal. But it'll show you a a list of flights, and you can you can narrow down the airline, so it's not every airline. You can do it by airline alliances, like One World, or you can do it by a specific airline. And then when you find the flight, you choose the outbound flight, and then you choose your return flight if it's a round trip.
Vikki:Right.
John:And then if you like it, it even gives you the options. There's links. Book through Google Flights, book through the actual airline, or book through an OTA. And what I do is I book like, it'll go right I'll go right to the the specific airline. I click on that, it'll go to the page, it'll show the flights, but then when you go to check out the flights, it says it's no longer it's not available.
John:So That's frustrating. Yeah. It gets frustrating sometimes with Google. So Google gives me a general idea of what flights are available and and a general idea of the pricing. Right.
John:And then what I do is I'll do an actual search on that air airline's website to find the exact flights I want. And the other thing I also look at when I book flights is the the the aircraft type. Because it does make a difference on what type of aircraft. Some aircraft are a lot more comfortable to fly on than others. Yeah.
John:But And then the other thing you were asking about, the second part of Vicky's first question was, do we just book the cheapest flight I can find, or do we stick with one particular airline? So there's two philosophies, I think, when you're booking flights, and the same holds true for for hotels and rental cars, but we're going to stick with with air airfare right now, or air travel, or planes right now.
Vikki:Right.
John:So if you go with like philosophy a, which would be book the cheapest flight you can find, that's great. It's going to save you money, but you're going to be probably flying Frontier, Spirit, Breeze. You're going to be flying probably an ultra low cost carrier, which I find not to be very comfortable to fly fly with.
Vikki:Right.
John:But you're going to save a lot of money. And that's great for I would say that philosophy works great for people who are very infrequent flyers. Mhmm. If you fly maybe once or twice a year, saving the money, you don't need to build status. Right.
John:The other the other philosophy, like philosophy b, would be to just try and stick with one particular airline, and try and build status with that airline through the flights that you that you book with them and over again. Because if you can get status, and especially if you can get the higher tiers of status, most airlines have about four tiers of public status. If you can get in the top two tiers, generally, you'll get a lot of perks out of that. And oftentimes, I think the best perk are complimentary upgrades to first class.
Vikki:Yeah. Definitely. And that's happened for us a lot.
John:Yeah. We So we we've stuck with one airline, and we've stuck with that for this has been many, many years. And so Vic and I were both
Vikki:It was when he retired, really. Right?
John:Yeah. We both qualified as reached their top tier, their top status tier. It was American Airlines. It was executive platinum. So they have actually have an additional tier above executive platinum con called concierge key, but that's an invitation only tier, and nobody knows the parameters of how to make that.
Vikki:That's just crazy.
John:I think it's like celebrities Yeah. And and like people who who
Vikki:Spend a lot of money probably Yeah.
John:People who spend a ton of money on flying, they they'll be invited in that concierge key. But other than that, the public tiers, there's four of them, executive platinum is the top. And we were generally getting upgraded all the time. And American has really changed a lot over the years. The service used to be phenomenal with them, and how they treated us as executive platinums.
John:And you're still an executive platinum Yeah. To this day with American. And do you find that to still be true?
Vikki:They don't treat you well. I'm just gonna lay it out. I was gonna say, should we let's be really honest with everybody today. We've been I've been really disappointed with American, so is John. So American, if you're listening, reach out to us.
Vikki:We'd love to chat. We've got lots of constructive ideas for you, but they don't treat you well any longer. Like, for let's just let's just also share who you switched to.
John:Well, I already switched. Yeah. So Vic, you haven't. You're still an executive platinum.
Vikki:But I'm really right there close to switching.
John:And I switched, years ago. A couple years ago, I switched to Alaska Airlines. So if you're if you have status and you want to switch, check with your airline and see if they have what they call like a status match or a status challenge. And so Alaska had both. Yeah.
John:So Alaska, it wasn't quite a total match because I went from executive platinum, and Alaska matched me to their second highest tier, which at that time was called MVP Gold 75 k,
Vikki:which Right.
John:That's a mouthful.
Vikki:But now they changed
John:So they just changed it this month to now it's called Atmos Platinum.
Vikki:Right.
John:And so they have one tier higher, which is Atmos Titanium. And so they they matched the they sort of matched the status, they gave me the status, which is actually a really great great status to have with Alaska. And then I had a status challenge that if I flew a certain amount of miles, and I think it was a three month period, if I remember correctly
Vikki:Yeah. Think it was
John:then I could keep the status for the rest of that year and for all of the next year. So if if your airline, whatever airline you choose, a lot of them have status matches and status challenges. Take advantage of that if you're thinking about switching airlines. I have never regretted switching Yeah. From American to Alaska.
John:It's it's like night and day.
Vikki:And if I could just throw something in there, that's what's been, I think, glaringly obvious to me. It's the customer service of Alaska versus American. I think that's where I'm really starting to see, holy cow, John is treated like a king, and I'm not I'm just treated like a second class citizen, always. Where when I go on a on an Alaska flight with John and he's got that, like you said, second highest status. Not even I'm the highest status at American.
Vikki:So I would expect at least to get what he's getting as second highest at Alaska. Then he gets on welcome, mister Downey. So thank you for, your loyalty to us. Here's a chocolate. I mean, they call him by name of the status, gives you a chocolate.
Vikki:They, don't have necessarily the list that shows I'm the highest at American, and they're partner airlines. Right? They're part of the same alliance. Sometimes they do, and they've given me a chocolate. Right?
John:Mhmm.
Vikki:But other times, you know, they're just like, hey, to me. And then when I'm an American, nothing. Not even thank you. I don't need the chocolate, but they don't even say, thank you for being an executive platinum. I would just at least expect that.
Vikki:They don't do any of that.
John:Yeah. And when you spend tens of thousands of dollars a year on airfare
Vikki:To be loyal.
John:It would be nice to be recognized.
Vikki:Yeah. Right?
John:And It's not that you wanna have have them, like, shoot confetti and and pop champagne for you every time. Well, that'd be kind of cool.
Vikki:It would be. But it's not
John:that you're expecting that, but how about just, like, have someone just stop by and say, you know, hey, Vicky, thank you for your loyalty. Thank you for Yeah. Thank you for your business. We appreciate Because they wouldn't have jobs if people like us didn't fly and spend, like I said, tens of thousands of dollars a year with them. Yeah.
John:And the thing too is for you to attain executive platinum requires so much more than for me to get Alaska Airlines credit.
Vikki:Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. We could lay into that. It's over $200,000 in purchases on cards and flights and all these other things.
John:You know, Americans got into this weird loyalty point system, and you have to earn 200,000 Which loyalty is a combination. And if you do it just in flying, it's I've I've had figured it out, even at your level at Executive Platinum, because Executive Platinum earns faster than the other levels.
Vikki:Yeah.
John:So it takes it would actually cost you less than other people, than most other people at other levels. It still would you would still have to spend, I think it was somewhere upward of of $30,000 in order to keep your executive platinum status. And for me with Alaska, it's based on miles flown, and I can I could get, if I wanted to get Alaska's very highest tier, you could do it for maybe a quarter or a third of what it costs with American?
Vikki:All I know is I I'm appalled now flying like I said, I've almost been ruined by Alaska. Thank you, Alaska. You are amazing. We love you, and we're flying Alaska up to Sonoma coming up.
John:And Yeah.
Vikki:You know, we do love it. But I'm kind of ruined because I just am shocked at the is it dichotomy? It's the or the difference between the two. Yeah. And, I'll tell you one more thing because I would love for somebody from American to call because everything seems to fall on deaf ears.
Vikki:I've told their executive executive platinum desk about all these things. Nothing seems to happen. When they send emails, I answer all their emails, and I'm not blasting them. I'm I'm eloquently stating what's happened and what sure would be nice if they would do this, but still nothing happens. And, like, one another example that drives me crazy is, as an executive platinum, we are supposed to get a free little, piece of food on a long flight if if they don't have you know, even if you're not in first class.
Vikki:Right? Isn't it like Yeah.
John:So there's their policy is American Airlines has a policy that an executive platinum seated in the main cabin is entitled to a free cocktail or a food item of their choice. Right.
Vikki:Oh, it's an or?
John:Uh-huh.
Vikki:Oh, that's why then I haven't been getting No.
John:No. You haven't been getting it because they don't serve food. Right. Because they always tell you the same excuse. We don't have food on this flight, which is bullshit because they have food.
John:It's just that you have to buy it. Yeah. And the the the benefit she's supposed to have, never once, never once have they have they owned up to that.
Vikki:Right.
John:Because we normally get when we when we fly, we're seated in what American calls Main Cabin Extra, so you already get free alcohol and little like three inches more leg room. So you get that anyhow. Yeah. But it was just the free food item that they keep advertising that executive platinums are entitled to, yet they never have it.
Vikki:Yeah. And it's embarrassing.
John:I was just gonna say, we booked we have booked flights booked to to Cabo coming up.
Vikki:Yeah. In February with you, Aura.
John:So that's that's not a short flight. So I went online to look to see and we're to see if we could order food, and it says there will be no food on this flight.
Vikki:Airlines have just gotten so cheap.
John:And it's not that we haven't had I mean, there's been a couple of bad, you know, some less than less than perfect flights that I've had with Alaska, but they haven't been that bad. Yeah. With American, they're almost always bad, and some of them are nightmarishly bad. Yeah. Like where where the flight attendants won't leave the galley, and then when you when someone presses the button for the flight attendant call button, they they get on the they actually get on the PA, this has happened on a couple of flights, where they say, do not push that button, that button is for emergency purposes only.
Vikki:Yeah.
John:If you need to see a flight attendant, get out of your seat and walk to the galley to the back of the plane. Right. And then you go back there, they're not serving anything
Vikki:And they glare at you.
John:They're all sitting back there eating.
Vikki:Yeah. And I've had them, like, what are you doing here kind of
John:a It's just shocking. Yeah. It's just shocking. It's no wonder that so many frequent flyers with American Airlines has left that airline and have gone to other airlines, because American, just this month, they've announced they're starting something new to draw back a lot of their corporate travelers who have left because of the poor service. Right.
John:Well, I think it's too little too late. But anyways, you
Vikki:just Yeah. And and I had one more thing I wanted to share before we move on, and it's that, it's not okay. So I've got the highest status. I expect to be treated a little nicer. And, you know, if they don't treat me nicer, you know, okay.
Vikki:But when I've had to embarrassingly say, excuse me, you know, ring the call button, and now I'm not supposed to, I guess, but they come. I believe I'm supposed to get I'm an executive platinum. I have to tell them where they should have a list, and they should know. And, know, like we said, thank you. And I have to say, I think I'm supposed to get a free, you know, me you know, some type of a food item, and then that's when they bark at you.
Vikki:No. You're not. And never still never says thank you for flying with this and your loyalty. I mean, it's just anyway, sorry. I just had to say it's the embarrassment of it all, and so American, you are shooing people away.
Vikki:I'm not surprised that so many people have left.
John:Yeah. Like Yeah. It's nice that Alaska and American have a close partnership, because Alaska doesn't fly to a lot of destinations. They're growing, right? Yeah.
John:But they don't fly everywhere in The United States, they're mostly a West Coast kind of an airline, and now they're going international, so there's a lot of international routes that they just opened. But So I still fly American because I can still get Alaska credit by flying American. But I'll tell you this, every time we have an American flight coming up, I'm dreading it, right? Because I know it's not going to be comfortable, I know I'm not going to really like it. Whenever we have an Alaska flight coming up, I almost look forward
Vikki:to it. Totally.
John:Because even when we go to the Alaska lounge at the airport, the lounges are nicer. The Oh, people in the lounge lounges are all nicer.
Vikki:Aren't number one for, customer service? Or they're
John:Alaska's been the top rated airline, US airline, for many years.
Vikki:That's a called a clue.
John:Yeah. It's called a clue. I forgot what I'm
Vikki:saying. Yeah. So I guess our bottom line is on this whole topic is to pick wisely. If you do choose, which we think is smart, to pick one
John:If you fly now.
Vikki:Stick with it. Yeah. Stick with it so you get status, but choose wisely in who that carrier is on where you fly, make sure there's enough flights like you were saying.
John:The other thing to keep in mind too is where you're flying from. So wherever your home is, you want to look for an airline that has a hub near your home.
Vikki:Right.
John:So for us, since we live like an hour from Los Angeles, everybody's everybody uses LAX as So a for us, it didn't matter what airline, but for some people, you you may not have all those choices at at the airport that's closest to where you live, and that's convenient then because then you don't have far to go to get to that that hub, and then you can fly your preferred airline from that hub, and they can pretty much go anywhere, and also their fares will be probably less. But maybe not, because if you have an airline that dominates a hub, or dominates an airport where you normally fly from, they will jack the prices up because it's a supply and demand kind of a thing, and they can because they don't have other competition. Right. So LAX is very, it's very competitive there because every airline flies into and out of LAX. So the prices at LAX are always less than prices at the closer airports to us, which would be John Wayne in Orange County Right.
John:Or Ontario.
Vikki:Right.
John:Prices out there are always, pretty much always higher
Vikki:Right. Because
John:there's not a lot of competition. Yeah. But like Alaska and American both fly out of Ontario, but not a lot of other airlines. And then the only other ones that fly out of there that I've seen have been a lot of the ultra low cost carriers, which like would be Frontier and Spirit Right. Which they don't compete with American so much in Alaska.
John:Out of John Wayne, it's Southwest. That's a big Yeah. Airport for Southwest, but we don't normally fly Southwest either.
Vikki:So take all of that into consideration. And let's debunk a travel myth. We were I was chatting with my daughter and her husband last night. Used to be, you know, five, ten years ago, it was recommended that you book on Tuesdays. There were certain days of the week, not on the weekends, all that kind of stuff.
Vikki:And, John, let's talk about that myth. Is that the case still today today?
John:Yeah. I'm not gonna bunk it. I'm gonna debunk it. Yeah. Came up with that?
John:Debunk it. Yeah. There there's no, like, exact time or day of the week to book your flights, it doesn't really matter. Because all they do is they have these computers, they have all these algorithms, and the prices change, and sometimes they change throughout the day. And one thing is that one of the areas they look at, one of is how many people are searching for that flight.
John:So if you're doing a bunch of searches on that flight, I've had it on American where I've, I just say it's American because I'm sure it's every air air airline does it, but I just remember doing this on their flight. I had searched it several times that day, and all of a sudden the price went way up. Right. And it stayed up, and I thought, well, I'm not gonna book it now, it's hundreds more.
Vikki:Right.
John:And then I waited a day or two, and all of a sudden the price came back down to where it should be.
Vikki:And we had that happen with family when we were going to Anguilla, and so we told our daughter and son, don't look right now. Let's not all look at the same time. Yeah. Just for that reason.
John:And then the other thing too is
Vikki:jack it up.
John:Book that thing early then, because then if if you think people are gonna start searching that like crazy, that price is probably gonna go up. I mean, there's a lot of factors they use, but the prices change constantly.
Vikki:Yeah. Let's talk about that. Okay. Another pro tip that John has is to once you book your flight, don't just think, oh, set it and forget it. Right?
Vikki:I'm done. Check every day. Isn't that right, John? Yes. Have the time.
John:I know a lot of people try and it's kind of like they're trying to time the stock market. Right? Buy the dips. And so they're looking at flights and thinking, well, I don't want to book too far out because the price may come down in a little bit, which is true. Right?
John:So there's like what they call a Goldilocks window, which is the it's you're not too you're not booking too early, you're not booking too late, you're booking in just right. So you want to hit that Goldilocks window. And so for domestic flights, they say it's anywhere from about like three to four months out from departure. International, it's a couple months even further out than that. But that's kind of a general rule of thumb.
John:And then you want to add some months to that if you're traveling during the peak period. So peak times would be like in the summer when when kids are out of school, there's a lot of families traveling, and then also around Thanksgiving and Christmas, though, and New Year's. Those are peak travel travel times, so you want to book a little bit early there. So but you don't have to worry about trying to time it perfectly, like, oh, I hope maybe tomorrow it'll go down. I could book it now.
John:It's pretty good price, but maybe next tomorrow or next week, it's gonna go down a little bit further, and I don't want to book it now and spend too much money.
Vikki:This is a big tip.
John:Book it. Because if it comes down, you can call and ask for a fare ask for the fare difference.
Vikki:Oh, say that again? Fare difference?
John:Call and ask for the fare difference. So let's say you book, today a flight that's maybe three, four, five months out, and you book it today, it's a pretty good price because you're booking far enough out, and then you happen to notice two weeks from now, the price went down a $150. That's a decent amount. Right? And you think, god, I screwed up.
John:I booked it. And I booked it way too early. Just call call the number at reservations, and just say, hey, I've got this flight booked. They're going to ask you for your reservation number. They'll look it up, and they say, yeah, and just say, hey, like I noticed it come down.
John:I'd like the fare difference. They'll look it up. You're absolutely right. The fare came down a $150. Now you won't get that as a cash refund, but you'll end up getting is a flight credit.
John:So it's still a $150 that you'll have to use on a future flight with with that airline, and usually it's about a year that you have to use it.
Vikki:Yeah, so why not? Yeah.
John:So for us, we fly enough to where if we get these credits, we'll eventually use them. For someone who's very infrequently flying, that's not gonna help you because you may not take another flight in the next year.
Vikki:Yeah. But if you're you're if you're listening to this podcast, you're most likely a business owner, entrepreneur. You're gonna be traveling for business. Most people do. Whether it's a seminar, you need to train.
Vikki:You you should be going to seminars to train yourself and edge and get better and hone your skills. Right? Yeah. So I'm thinking a lot of people listening to this will be. Yeah.
Vikki:And so I think that's a huge tip because I know for our team with Neora, we have a big, conference coming up in November, and we're always helping our team get their flights or at least give them tips. Well, where are you flying from? And John helps them with it, and then, you know, keeps has them keep checking back afterwards just for that reason to make sure there's not the fairest difference.
John:And it's it doesn't take that much time to check. I mean, it's if you do it enough times, you can just breeze through all the the mouse clicks and check on it, and it may take a minute. Yeah. And it's worth it, you know. If if you can save a 100, a $150
Vikki:Yeah.
John:Definitely. In a minute just checking the flights.
Vikki:Yeah. And if there's two of you like us, you know, that's $300 that we can but, you know, between the two of us. Yeah. So is there any other before we jump into hotels, is there any other flight tip or hack that you that we've missed sharing today? There's so many good ones.
John:Yeah. There's a lot to it, because I I touched on it briefly earlier about the aircraft type. The aircraft type makes a difference too. Like, oftentimes, if we'll see a flight, especially with the bigger airlines, like with American, they have a lot of wide body jets, and I would much prefer booking a wide body than what they call narrow body, which is what you normally see, right? Which would be like a seven thirty seven or Boeing Boeing a three twenty, a three twenty one, those are all twin engine narrow body single aisle jets.
John:They're not small by any means, right? They still carry almost, well, the way a lot of these airlines are packing people in, they're almost 200 passengers on. I think Americans got a 176 on their seven thirty sevens and their a three twenty ones. That's a lot of people.
Vikki:I don't know.
John:Yeah. So anyways. Yeah. If you can get like a wide body jet, which are much bigger jets, I would book that because the flight itself is more comfortable than on the narrow body, because it's a bigger airplane, it's got more room inside, there's usually there's two aisles on those planes, And if you if you get, like, if you use philosophy b, and you have status with the airline Right. And you get your complimentary upgrade, on the wide body jets, they generally have those outfitted with lie flat pods for what they call business class, instead of first class, it's basically business class.
John:I remember we went Just flew from LAX to Dallas, Texas for a conference or some sort of training.
Vikki:Yeah.
John:Yeah. Was a New York thing. And we were have a there was a group that was talking to us, and and one of them, she said, I saw the pictures that you guys took when you guys departed from LAX, and were you guys in lie flat seats in individual little pods? And we're like, yeah. How much did that cost you?
Vikki:Right.
John:And it was less than what they paid flying Southwest, I think it was.
Vikki:Oh my gosh.
John:And they're like, how did you how did you you guys always fly either first class or how did you score that? And it was just basically because we don't bounce around to different airlines. We stay with, at that time it was with American.
Vikki:Mhmm.
John:We have status, so we just booked a cheap economy ticket, and we got the complimentary upgrade, and I was also careful to book it on a wide body Yeah. Instead of on one of the narrow bodies, because I knew if we got that upgrade, it wasn't just to a slightly bigger seat in the pointy part of the plane, but it was an actual lie flat little pod.
Vikki:Yeah. So you're telling me there's a method to your math?
John:Yeah. There's a bit of a method, but you don't know. And that's I consider that a fairly short medium ish flight, that's two and a half hours
Vikki:or so, so it's not
John:that big of a deal. But on the long flights, if you're flying transcontinental, you're flying from, you know, all the way across country, or you're flying overseas, that makes all the difference in the world.
Vikki:Yes. Totally.
John:I tell you, I don't know if I could handle just because I've gotten spoiled, but it would just be miserable for me to sit in those cramped little economy seats, and every year they seem like they keep getting more and more cramped. Yeah. And then we just lay down, take a nap, get up.
Vikki:I know. It's so nice. You get to
John:breakfast.
Vikki:Denmark or or Dublin or wherever you're going, because you get you've gotten me on, I've been upgraded on the way to Denmark quite a bit, and we've, yeah, and it is. You get there, everyone's like, oh, you know, the friends and family that pick you up at the airport, are you exhausted? Was it a long flight? And it's like, no. I'm refreshed.
John:Yep. I remember
Vikki:we I were just say it's funny.
John:Flying back from London. Yeah. And it was a nonstop from Heathrow to LAX, and we were in the lie flat seats. And we had that's all we had been because at that time, we were flying a lot to Japan too. Yeah.
John:And we'd kind of gotten spoiled. I remember I got up, it was morning, it was getting close to the end of the flight, I got up, had taken a nap, woke up, went to the lavatory, brushed my teeth, and there's a flight attendant that was standing in there, and it was kind of the the galley, the rear galley of the business class, where the next row behind the curtain was economy. And I and that's a long flight from London back to LAX. Yeah. And I remember I said, hey, do you mind if I take a peek through that curtain?
John:Because I don't want to forget how miserable I used to be. Right?
Vikki:That's so funny.
John:And she laughed. She goes, oh, they're bad. She goes, especially if you walk to the back of the plane, she said, it it looks like they've all been just gone through they've just been tortured. Yeah. I said, no.
John:No. I just wanted to take a peek. So she slides the curtain open, I look, and I swear everyone was just glaring at me.
Vikki:Yeah. You told me surprised
John:I didn't get the the the bird a couple of times, like somebody didn't flip me the middle finger, because you they just looked miserable.
Vikki:Yeah. I know. And it's almost like that Seinfeld episode with Elaine where where he where Jerry if you haven't watched it, but Jerry, gets has there's one first class seat and then one in the economy, and he grabs it instead of offering it to the lady. Right? And Elaine was like, but I've never flown first class.
Vikki:And Jerry's like, well, then you don't know the difference. And what did he say?
John:Well, he told
Vikki:her You can't go back.
John:You can't you can't fly because I've flown first class. He said, I can't go back.
Vikki:And it's true. We have gotten a little spoiled a little. Because there are times we don't get the upgrade, and we didn't wanna pay the exorbitant fee
John:to Yeah. It's ridiculous how much they wanna charge.
Vikki:Pay for first class, and it is kinda torture once you've been up there. So so if you don't wanna torture yourself, don't, don't get status and don't get the upgrades because then you won't know what you're missing.
John:Yeah. So if you fly a lot using that philosophy b where you're just sticking to one airline, sure, it costs you a little bit more money because you could find a cheaper flight with a different airline than the one that you've you've committed to, but in the long run, it would probably be cheaper that if you just stuck with one airline, got status, because then you would never, or hopefully, would never have to pay for another first class or business class flight again, because you should be able to get those with with your upgrades, complimentary upgrades. Another thing too is people always talk about like checked bags, like paying for Right. Checked
Vikki:That is another thing.
John:You're still paying for checked bags, you're doing something wrong, because most airlines are charging for checked bags now, even Southwest changed their policy, where it used to be two bags float would fly free, well, not so much. However, there's always a carve out in that checked baggage for anyone who has a co branded credit card. So even with Southwest, if you have one of those certain Southwest co branded credit cards, that they'll waive the checked baggage fee. And so if if you're flying so if you fly all these different airlines, it would be it it wouldn't make sense to open up a credit card for each of those airlines. That would be kind of ridiculous.
John:Yeah. Because a lot of those credit cards too, some of them carry an annual fee. So if you stick with one though, why wouldn't you get their co branded credit card, and then that would give you some additional perks?
Vikki:Right.
John:Like priority, even if you didn't have status yet. Right? So you're building your way to status. If you get their co branded credit card, oftentimes it gives you priority boarding, so you board ahead of a lot of other people, gives you the free check bag, gives you a lot of other little perks that would probably help you, and you earn miles too, redeemable miles with that airline that later you can redeem those for an almost free flight.
Vikki:Right.
John:But here's another issue with that too, is if you're going to redeem your hard earned miles to get a almost, and I say almost free because you still have to pay for taxes and fees. Right. But that usually isn't very much. It can be as little as $5.60 up to maybe a $100. But if you do redeem your miles for a flight, or whether it's miles or whether your airline calls them points, whatever they call them, it's whatever you've earned for flying and for spending on their co branded credit card and doing those things.
John:Try not avoid booking business trips with those.
Vikki:Right.
John:Because the IRS considers that a free flight then. So you can't write that off. So if you go on a business trip, which normally you can deduct your travel expenses, you can deduct many things because it's an actual business expense, you won't be able to deduct any of the travel expense, even though those miles and those points have value. Right. It costs you money.
John:You earn them, it does have a value attached to them, but the IRS doesn't feel that they do, so you won't be able to deduct that from your your taxes. Right. So we save up ours for when we go on on vacations, leisure trips. So trips that we could never write off as a business, because it has nothing to do with a business.
Vikki:Yeah.
John:So we don't write those off anyhow. So why would I spend cash on those flights? I'll just spend the miles.
Vikki:Right. Exactly. And, you know, I'm thinking we we'll do an another episode for hotels and maybe rental car. Let's finish this out chatting, make this all about air travel. Let's chat about the miles and award flights and your philosophy on that that actually because this is what John has helped me with on award tickets, award flights.
Vikki:There you do have to kind of think of it as a dollar amount. Because I used to just say, well, why don't I just use miles? I'll go here. You know, it's only 12,500 miles. And John's like, Vic, you do realize there's still it has value.
Vikki:That would cost you x amount of dollars. And if you just bought a $59 ticket on a cheap airline, it'd be better than you using the miles. So let let's let's dive into miles because maybe there's a lot of you that were like me that think of it as, oh, yeah, it's my free miles, but there is so so can you elaborate on that and kind of what I
John:just shared? Yeah. So when Vicki says award award flights, award seats, that's what the airlines call a a ticket booked using the miles or points that you've accumulated. That's called an award seat. If you pay cash for it, it's called a revenue.
John:So you can buy a revenue ticket or an award. So when you're talking about awards, yeah, absolutely. Like your airline miles that you accumulate, that you work hard to earn, they absolutely have value, and you can look that up online. There's a number of companies that put value to the actual dollar amount of value to every airline mile and every hotel point across every major hotel, every major airline. And right now, currently, I think American Airlines comes in at about 1.7¢ per mile, and airlines, they're different, but they're usually around that same, in that same area.
John:Right? And they take in a number of things, they factor in a number of things to come up with that valuation, but it has a value to it. So if you've got a flight that is going to cost you 50,000 miles, so multiply that 50,000 by 1.8¢, and that's the actual dollar amount that that ticket's going to well, that's the dollar amount that's associated with that ticket for the award for that award, ticket. And then you can look and see what what what would it cost me if I would buy it cash. Right.
John:Oftentimes, I've noticed that it's about that with American Airlines. Oh. It's very close to it being the same amount. So That's good to it's kind of like you figure, well, kind of it's awash, well, then you have to figure, is it a business trip? Is it a legitimate business trip that I can legally write off, and I probably would want to just save my miles and use money.
Vikki:Right.
John:If it's not, if it's something that we're traveling and it's it's, like I said, it's purely a leisure trip, then I would really strongly consider using those hard earned miles for that. Right. But be careful, because some redemptions are terrible.
Vikki:Right. And you that's what you've educated me on Like, do you realize what
John:this is? Give you a four it was the Dubai trip. We were actually going to Qatar. We flew Qatar Airways to Doha, and then we took a quick little flight to Dubai while we were there. But we were there for a reason.
John:We had to go there for our son.
Vikki:Weight lifting.
John:Yeah. For his Olympic weight So we wanted to go and see him. We had never been to The Middle East, so we thought, well, this would be kind of a cool little trip, we'll do that.
Vikki:And it was cool, by the way.
John:Yeah. It was in December too, so the weather there was really nice.
Vikki:Perfect.
John:Yeah. Was beautiful. So we decided we were gonna book that. Now, that's not a business trip. Right?
John:And we would be arrested if we tried to claim it as a business trip, because it purely wasn't. So we knew that every dollar we spent was just going be a dollar out of our pocket that we couldn't deduct off of our taxes whatsoever. Right. So we looked at booking either cash, but we really wanted to book an award flight because that's what we have our miles for.
Vikki:Right.
John:So and we booked it through American Airlines because one of their world one world partners is Qatar.
Vikki:Yay.
John:Awesome airline.
Vikki:And you had read about the Qsuites, so that's what we were really
John:excited had number one business class product in the world, and it's called their Qatar Qsuites, and that thing was spectacular. Yeah. But anyways, so I was looking for award space, and Alaska had I mean, American had a lot of award space, but it was the it was the basically cheapest I could find was 300,000 miles each way, plus you have to pay for taxes and fees.
Vikki:That seems like a lot.
John:300,000. That's a ridiculous amount. If you want to do the math, multiply 300,000 by all, it's almost 2¢ a mile. So you see how much that was going to cost. Yeah.
John:And then I looked at the round trip, paying cash, the flight was and I was looking this is in business class, in the q suite. Right. And I looked at the at the round trip cash fare was over $23,000 per person. Wow. So I can see why they were asking for so many miles.
John:Right. But I also know that there are sometimes awards awards as little as 70,000 miles each way. So for a 140,000 miles round trip.
Vikki:Okay.
John:So I thought, I'm going to keep looking for that. So that's what I kept doing. And when I did the search, I didn't do the search for two, I did it for one.
Vikki:Oh, that's another prototype.
John:Oftentimes, yeah, the the airlines will release award space one seat at a time. Even though they may have 40 business class seats available, or they probably don't have that many on their flight, they probably have 37. Well, it was a wide body. So But they may have, they have whatever the number is. Let's say they have 40, Right?
John:And maybe 10 people have booked in cash, so they still have 30 available seats, and yet they only allow one award seat. And so what at that price, at least the 70,000, they may have five or six at the 300,000, but I'm not interested for 300,000. So what I did was I kept searching. When I saw the first 70,000 seat pop up, booked it. And then I waited and kept searching and searching and searching, and all of sudden another one popped up.
John:I booked Booked
Vikki:to me.
John:Yeah. So we we ended up flying, and we ended up I booked them two one ways. That's another trick too, is instead of booking it as a round trip itinerary, I booked it as two separate one ways. And that way gives you a lot of flexibility. Whenever you book flights, if the airline doesn't offer a discount for booking round trip, and this is another thing to keep in mind if you're looking at American because they play games.
John:Sometimes it's cheaper on American to book two one ways on the same flights than to book the round trip in Sometimes one they charge more, and I don't I don't understand why how they end up coming up with that. I like airlines that are a little more transparent on their pricing. Southwest is very good at this. Alaska the same. If you want a round trip flight, it's just add the one way and the other one way, and that comes up with your round trip.
John:They don't play any games. And I've always liked that about Southwest. They have you choose which flight you want to go out on, which flight you want to come home on, and that's the way it's set. However, if you book a round trip and you need to make a change, let's say all of a sudden something changes and you have to come home a day early, you have to then change that flight, and you're gonna pay a higher fee as you get closer to departure for both the outgoing and the incoming flight. Mhmm.
John:So you're gonna pay a premium on both. If you'd book two Oneways, you only need to change one ticket. The one coming home. So you're only gonna play pay the fare difference, the higher premium on that one ticket, the flight outbound flight going there is gonna remain unchanged.
Vikki:You saved us so much with those one ways. Yeah. That's brilliant.
John:Yeah. And it works great for award space because if you're using miles, the miles are generally just adding the two one ways together. Right. So why would you book a round trip? Why not just give give yourself all that flexibility and book the two one ways?
Vikki:And you guys, you know what's great about award flights is that, yeah, there's some taxes you pay for depending where you're flying to, and we know there are some countries that were to charge a ridiculous amount in taxes. We we won't get into all that. But what's awesome about award flights, if something does change in your schedule, oh, we've gotta come back a day early. It's so easy to cancel the award ticket. You get your miles right back.
Vikki:Your card gets credited for the taxes, and then you could book the new flight. It's like, it's it's effortless. You're not waiting for the fare different, you're not having your credit on file and that kind of thing. Right?
John:Yeah. It's it it really works out well if you've got a flight where you don't know that you're gonna take it or not, and you've got a bunch of miles. So Yeah. If if it's like, we're we would love to go on this trip, but we don't know if we're going to be able to, something may change.
Vikki:Right.
John:So if you booked it with cash, you're and you had to cancel it, you're just gonna get a flight credit. You're not gonna get a refund. But if you book it with, like you said, this is a great point, Vic, if you book it with miles and you have to cancel it Yeah. They completely reinstate a 100% of the miles you had spent, and they give you back a 100% of what you paid in taxes and fees as a refund to your credit card.
Vikki:Yeah. Like, right away. Like, well, of course, the credit card takes a little bit to show up, but, you know, some days. But, yeah. I mean, it's brilliant.
Vikki:That's been just such a game changer.
John:So you basically are booking a fully refundable fare
Vikki:Mhmm.
John:Without having to pay the exorbitant fully refundable fare price. Because if you look at airlines that offer a fully refundable fare, it's generally almost double what the regular fare is.
Vikki:Wow. Yeah. And all
John:you're doing is basically buying insurance that in case you had to cancel, and if you didn't cancel, then you paid double what you should have paid.
Vikki:Right.
John:Right. So if you use miles, it's fully refundable.
Vikki:Right. Another reason to kind of pick one carrier that you're flying all the time, so you build up all these miles Mhmm. Yeah, to do things like this.
John:Yeah. And there's a lot of credit card strategy too, because you can you know, I know a lot of people and it's smart. They they get into they they get a credit card that has, that's a travel credit card, and generally they're pretty expensive, especially the premium ones, they're $5.50 to $900 a year in annual fees.
Vikki:Right.
John:And I know a lot people say, why would I pay that for an annual fee? But if you look at all the benefits you get, and if the benefits work for you, generally the benefits outweigh the annual fee. Yeah. So it it makes sense to have it. The other nice thing about some of the credit cards is they're almost like a universal currency.
John:Mhmm. So if you're earning those those points with a credit card, you can transfer those points to several different airlines. Mhmm. And it works out really well if your airline is part of their transfer part is one of their transfer partners, because then you can just move those credit card points into airline miles to pay for to cover a trip. Yeah.
John:And if you can't, let's say you're you're flying on an airline that isn't one of their transfer partners, you can always use your points booking through the credit cards travel portal and book that flight using your points. You don't get as great of redemption, you still get about 2¢. I think you get 1¢, 1¢ per point, So it's not a great redemption value. But there's another caveat to that too is if you book through their travel portal, the airline considers that a revenue ticket, so you get full credit towards your elite status.
Vikki:Oh, yeah. That's right.
John:Because for most airlines, and again, Alaska is the is one of the outliers in this, but and then they just changed it just recently. Yeah. So that's good. Oh, okay. They've just changed
Vikki:it for the
John:good, because Alaska was like everybody else. So if you fly American, if you fly almost any other airline, if you book an award ticket, you will get no credit toward earning elite status. Because even the airline says, well, basically, that's a free ticket. Why are we going to give you Right. Loyalty points to help get you to a status when you didn't pay for the ticket?
John:Right. And that's the way it's been for most airlines. So if you use your credit card points with one of the, like, I mentioned the ones, but if you use credit card points and book through the credit card travel portal
Vikki:Right.
John:They buy it as a as a that that's because basically, they're taking and buying that ticket for you. You're burning your points with that credit card. The credit card company is buying the ticket as a revenue ticket from the airline, so the airline treats it as a full revenue ticket, and you get full credit.
Vikki:I don't think a lot of people know that. That's a great tip.
John:So sometimes it it it's not the like I said, it's not the greatest redemption value. You can get better redemption, but usually, you can find far better value if you transfer your points to the credit card to the airlines to the airline to buy the miles from the airline, and then redeem it that way, but you won't get credit.
Vikki:You should be a travel coach. Maybe that's another side gig. We're all about multiple streams of income on here. You should be a travel coach for people that wanna do it on their own. That's funny.
John:Yeah.
Vikki:Yeah. Well, this has been great, John. So many fantastic tips. I think we've talked your ear off today, but I think this was a jam packed episode on air air travel. And we'll definitely do another one on hotel and rental car, because we've learned a lot with that as well.
John:So We can talk we can even get into, because one of the things that I I I probably dislike the most when traveling is sitting at the gate. Oh, yeah. To me, that's like, it's just I don't know. It just I don't know why it is that the seats are not comfortable. Everything seems dirty.
Vikki:Yeah. It seems very dirty.
John:There's usually people that are loud. There's someone sitting across from you hacking up a lump.
Vikki:That's very
John:Kids running around. There's there's some idiot.
Vikki:And we love kids. But
John:Yeah. And there's some idiot watching a program Wow. His phone with the with the thing super loud. Right? Yeah.
John:Or there's somebody else FaceTiming, like in public FaceTiming. I mean,
Vikki:just hold the Rude. Phone
John:and talk softly. Right? Yeah. But no, they have to scream and yell, and it's like one of the worst places to be. So one of the things we do is we have access to lounges in almost every airport, and it's easy to get access to the lounges.
John:In fact, I think more and more people have figured it out because it wasn't that many years ago when we'd go to the lounge and it was like just basically to ourselves.
Vikki:Yeah. Yeah. People are.
John:They're packed. In fact, we have to wait to get into a lounge.
Vikki:Yeah. We could do an episode just on that too. Yeah.
John:But it is so much nicer to go hang out in the lounge. You have free WiFi. It's comfortable, some of them have showers. They have, generally they have a full bar, they have food. Yeah.
John:And if you've, if you we were just, well, like, again, going back to that trip to to The Middle East.
Vikki:Right.
John:We get there and we went to the 1 World First Class Lounge Oh, yeah. At the International That was Terminal. Actually were we were checking into the Business Class Lounge, which is a beautiful lounge. Yeah. And I remember she's like, you guys are emeralds, one world emeralds.
John:You guys can go to the first class lounge next door. We're like, oh, yeah, we can. Okay. So we went down there, and almost every lounge has a buffet for the food. You just go serve yourself, and and if you want something to drink, there's a bar, you can get something out there.
John:This had it was like a sit down restaurant, and it was Classy. My gosh. It was like going to a Michelin starred restaurant.
Vikki:It was like the type, I'm sorry to interject, but where the waiter takes the nap kin, and for the ladies, he puts
John:it on
Vikki:your lap. It was like that. Yeah. He did that for
John:me. Like, you go to the tables, all the all the all the wine glasses are all sitting on the table, you sit down, a waiter comes up, he's got the little he's got his Yeah. Thing over his arm, the the towel over his arm, and asked what we would like to drink, and he came out, oh, popped a bottle of champagne for us Yeah. Even though we didn't drink champagne. I said, that's okay.
John:And he pops this bottle of champagne, and we're there Yeah. With her We had some champagne, and he said, what would you like? And so I had a red wine, John had a red wine, you had I don't remember. Whatever it was.
Vikki:A drink.
John:They go get that, and we said, okay. Where did we get the feast? Oh, it brings out menus, and we work for the menu.
Vikki:And we didn't even have that much time. We were like, we would have come sooner if we you know?
John:Yeah. So that's the other thing too, once you start traveling like that, you're gonna find that you're gonna want to leave a little bit early for the airport Yeah. Just because that's part of the experience is going to one of these lounges and and getting pampered almost.
Vikki:It's become like a date night, a date weekend that we look forward to when we do this. Yeah.
John:Yeah. Hear people all the time complain about traveling. Oh, I've got to fly to, you know, Detroit. I gotta fly over here. I gotta fly I that.
John:Yeah. I'm thinking, well, you're not flying right there.
Vikki:You're not doing it the right way.
John:Right. Because you should still there there's still some enjoyment to be had. Yeah. It's not that bad.
Vikki:Yeah. It's actually fun. So well, we hope you learned a lot on this episode. If you wanna reach out to either one of us, we will make sure to put our email address in the show notes. And, still, we have that free facial scan for any of you curious about aging and what it's what your face says about you.
Vikki:We've got that. That's a $150 value, so check that out in the show notes. We hope you have a fantastic day. Thanks for joining us on Dig the Well.
John:Bye bye.
Vikki:Thanks for joining us on dig the well.
John:We hope you feel empowered and ready to take on new challenges.
Vikki:Remember, if we can do it, so can you. Keep learning, keep believing, and going after your dreams.
John:And if you enjoyed this episode, share it with someone who needs a little inspiration or maybe a nudge in the right direction.
Vikki:Help us grow this community of go getters. Together, we can achieve greatness and get back to family.
John:Thanks for listening, and let's keep digging the way.