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A podcast that spotlights the women reshaping the hospitality industry, breaking barriers, and carving their paths in the ever-evolving world of restaurants, food, and community.
Sara Abernethy (00:35)
Today's conversation is with Deirdre Auld, one of my oldest friends and most cherished relationships. I pointed out that we have known each other for a very long time in this conversation and she did not like to hear that. She is CEO of the Coda Group, which is a restaurant group in Boston boasting four different concepts, the salty pig, SRV, Gufo and Baleia
She has also worked with a number of culinary legends in her own time, including Barbara Lynch, to which I was like, who?
Not only is Deirdre an HBIC, but she is also a leadership and professional development coach. I have been coached by her. My husband has been coached by her you can check out more of her work through her coaching practice Tableside In this conversation, we talk about Deirdre's evolution as a leader in hospitality and how each role brought on new lessons learned.
If you've never met Deirdre before, it is my pleasure to introduce her to you for the first time. So please enjoy my conversation with Deirdre Auld
Sara Abernethy (01:44)
is have recording on as soon as, I don't know if you've listened to podcasts where they do that, but they're like, always be recording, and they have it
Deirdre Auld (01:54)
Yeah
Sara Abernethy (01:55)
recording as soon as the guest comes in. So I want it to be like that, because I feel like the onset of the conversation is way more organic, but I also feel like that's scary for people.
Deirdre Auld (02:07)
No, I love it. Are you listening to Amy Poehler's Good Thing? Because she does that. It's so good.
Sara Abernethy (02:12)
Yes,
yes, yes. I am such an Amy, I have Amy Poehler's biography in my bedroom. I love her so much. Aren't you so proud of her?
so thrilled and I love that she beat all the boys. And it was totally warranted. It's just so great.
Deirdre Auld (02:36)
love that she's only had pretty much the girlies on. She peppers in like two boys that she likes
Sara Abernethy (02:41)
Yes!
Deirdre Auld (02:42)
that are like totally non-problematic.
Sara Abernethy (02:44)
Non-problematic. I loved when Seth Meyers cried multiple times. Honestly, think Seth Meyers might have been like my top episode. I know that's a hot take.
Deirdre Auld (02:55)
I know, I, I loved Mariska Hargitay. Yes! Me too.
Sara Abernethy (02:59)
She surprised me!
She surprised me, because I don't watch that show, like, but she's very funny.
Deirdre Auld (03:05)
She
is very funny. I like a little like, I like spice crass and yeah. Yes.
Sara Abernethy (03:14)
so she's funny. Love her dynamic with whatever his name is. The guy from Runaway Bride That's what I know him from.
Deirdre Auld (03:18)
Stabler. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sara Abernethy (03:21)
Right? He's like, yeah,
Deirdre Auld (03:23)
I forgot.
Sara Abernethy (03:24)
that's like the only thing I know.
Deirdre Auld (03:28)
Wow, we're doing amazing. Look at us go.
Sara Abernethy (03:30)
So
great. Okay, so now that we're on, want to tell you your hair looks so amazing. Your smile is so amazing. You're such a telegenic person. You look at your nails, you have your nails done. God, it's just so good to see you.
Deirdre Auld (03:44)
It's so good to see you also. This is like a little hack, maybe a shout out to I like I can't justify going to a salon and getting my nails done. I think it's wild. So I got these sassy Saint gel press ons and they've lasted two weeks and they're They're like, yeah, I'm pretty impressed. They're like 10 bucks a box or whatever.
Sara Abernethy (04:06)
Okay, where are you sitting right now?
Deirdre Auld (04:08)
I'm at SRV right now. I'm in the private dining space.
Sara Abernethy (04:11)
And SRV is where we had our patio dinner. Okay,
Deirdre Auld (04:14)
Yes, exactly. Yes.
Sara Abernethy (04:17)
we got a lot to catch up on.
Deirdre Auld (04:19)
I know.
Sara Abernethy (04:20)
A lot to catch up on here. I also not to like take this down right away, but do know that we've almost known each other for 30 years?
Deirdre Auld (04:34)
Okay, first off, do not rush us into 40, Sarah. We're not there.
Sara Abernethy (04:39)
Yes.
Deirdre Auld (04:40)
But it was funny because I was thinking about this this morning and I was like, I mean, I've known Sarah for half my life. then I was like, it's more than three quarters.
Sara Abernethy (04:48)
than half my years.
So let's start there. Okay. For people who don't know you, you were born up in the the north
Deirdre Auld (04:58)
Yep, in the Boston area.
Sara Abernethy (04:59)
in the Boston area and that's where you are now. you are having a full circle moment but you did spend a good amount of time of your formative years in Raleigh, North Carolina which is where we met in the sixth grade.
Deirdre Auld (05:12)
my God, we were so cute and we didn't even know how cute we were, you know?
Sara Abernethy (05:16)
Actually, can I tell you, I've been, January is often a time where I purge a lot of things. And because we've been snowed in and sick for like the past six weeks, just spending a lot of time at home. I have a box of some of our notes from the sixth and seventh grade. I wish I had it like sitting next to me right now.
Deirdre Auld (05:36)
Yes. my god.
Sara Abernethy (05:37)
Still folded in the like origami way.
and we have LYLAS all over them. I mean, it's just very special.
Deirdre Auld (05:46)
It's so sweet. mean, I remember us making the composition notebooks that we would like, like put like different cutouts on and then put the contact paper around and then we would pass that back and forth. Cause remember they tried to like outlaw note passing and we girlies were like, we're too creative. We're just going to pass a notebook, you know?
Sara Abernethy (06:05)
And then the collage on the front
Deirdre Auld (06:09)
The collage, it was everything. It really represented us, or we thought it did.
Sara Abernethy (06:14)
I I agree. You know, I really knew everything back in those days.
Deirdre Auld (06:19)
I definitely felt like I knew everything then. As I get older, I'm like, I know literally nothing.
Sara Abernethy (06:25)
Okay,
so you're sitting in the PDR at SRV, PDR, SRV up in Boston. you got to catch me up.
So just take the mic. What's going
on?
Deirdre Auld (06:35)
Yeah, so a lot of life transitions, Tableside Land is still happening. So my business partner is Cassie from Tableside, as you know, and she and I decided that we created programming for restaurants to help restaurants develop their leaders because it was just such a gap that I saw for my career the first go round and such a passion point for both Cassie and I. And we created this programming, we trialed it, we piloted it, we had a lot of
fun with experience and a lot of success. But one of the challenges that we kept seeing over and over again was just like barrier of cost, which I think, as we know, is the restaurant's greatest challenges cost and time. And so we made a pivot to we found that like the biggest cost was us right, like our facilitation and our time had to be accurately accounted for. But that was the barrier for most restaurants. So we pivoted the model to be self
facilitated basically we created like a facilitators guide training program for the facilitator and then modified the programming to be more formatted for that. So folks can go online, they can purchase it for their teams, they can facilitate it themselves, or they can hire an independent facilitator if they prefer like whatever their method is. So that's what's been happening with TableSide for like the last year. And it's been great. We've had three different groups go through it, like purchase and go through. And you know, we're just sort of
like letting it ride and then discussing about like what the next programming is that we make our time is a little bit more limited now, both working full time outside of that space. But yeah, we were just like, you we feel like we have this solution point, but we're still buried. And so we need to overcome that barrier. And that was sort of our, our goal. then around the same time, I had been also consulting for group here in Boston that I had known for a long time.
shy bird and really love them and spent a lot of time with them thinking about like growth and operational strategy and like working with their two founders. And we started talking about opportunity for the potential of being with them full time. I really like love and believe in their brand. And they're such like good humans. And so I was really seriously considering that. then Jim, who had been my boss and
then at the end, business partner, when I was with Coda Group for the seven years before, and I started talking about that. And he was like, no, I don't like that.
So he sort of, you we had some really like serious discussions about he's at a point in his life where he's thinking about the retirement pivot in a few years and what does the company look like and what does it need and what did it need for the potential of growth? And so he made me an offer and I decided to come back and join as the group CEO and as a partner at all the properties.
Sara Abernethy (09:34)
Bye.
Deirdre Auld (09:34)
So yeah, it's been, it's almost a year. It'll be a year. No, it's.
It just passed a year, like a couple days ago. So yeah.
Sara Abernethy (09:40)
The CEO of the Coda Group and partner in real estate ventures.
Deirdre Auld (09:50)
It's so silly, but like, it's also so funny because I feel so uncomfortable saying the title, which is like not a usual thing for me. think, you know, like confidence is not really in short supply. but I just, I don't know. think that this is a part of like being woman that I'm just like, it feels silly to like flex that title. I don't want to make anybody uncomfortable and whatnot. And like, I have to keep working on it. So I'm very proud of myself for just saying it to you directly. Thank you.
Sara Abernethy (10:14)
Well done. Also,
can I just say like, there is no human being on planet Earth who could assume that role as well and seamlessly as you. It's
Deirdre Auld (10:28)
That's so nice. Thank you.
Sara Abernethy (10:30)
so true because like, let's take it back, let's take it back, back, back, back, back. Okay. You move back to Boston and you start working at the
Deirdre Auld (10:39)
No butcher shop first.
Sara Abernethy (10:41)
The butcher shop.
And what, right, so, and you started as like a server, right?
Deirdre Auld (10:45)
as a service manager. when I first got back to Boston, I worked briefly at a restaurant in Cambridge called Russell House Tavern as a bartender, and then had some experiences that I didn't love. I won't blast them, but I'll just say really highlighted. We've all been there. But really highlighted to me the leadership gap and the opportunity to, as a manager, be both a protector and a champion for your staff and for the business. And so it sort of motivated my.
pivot into management. And so I started like looking around and applying and decided to go work for Barbara Lynch, was, one of the most yeah, exactly.
Yeah, I mean, and it was such a big time then too. This was like early aughts And, you know, there were so few women chef and there were even fewer women chef that had like a national presence and name. And I just was so thrilled by the opportunity to sort of learn, cut my management teeth under her and under her team who was like power house. And so I transitioned over to the butcher Shop in my like first year of being in Boston. And that was my first management job.
Sara Abernethy (11:56)
college, right?
Deirdre Auld (11:57)
Yeah, so I left Chicago about a year after college and came to Boston at that point. So yeah, I had, you know, just, had been serving and bartending in Chicago and like post college, post economic housing market.
Sara Abernethy (12:11)
crash
And I mean, years before that, you and I both have been in this industry for ever since we legally allowed to work. Yeah.
Deirdre Auld (12:26)
Actually,
technically, you know, I got busted for working too early in North Carolina, right?
Sara Abernethy (12:31)
No, I didn't know that.
Deirdre Auld (12:32)
Oh, yeah. My first job was as a host at Cahills Bar and Grill, but I was 14 and you were supposed to be 15. And my parents were like, it's going to be fine. And literally like a month into my employment, the employer got like, I notice that I wasn't allowed to work and so I had to stick up to work.
Sara Abernethy (12:50)
They hired you, right? they took you without an issue.
Deirdre Auld (12:54)
Yeah, yeah, And my parents are literally like, remember my dad being like, I just don't see what the big deal is.
Sara Abernethy (13:06)
if I'm even allowed to say this, but like if I, in the hiring climate that I've been through in the past several years, if I could have hired a competent 14 year old to host, I would be happy. Happy
Deirdre Auld (13:18)
Yeah!
Sara Abernethy (13:19)
to have somebody who was like willing to be on time and looking to earn money and learn and man.
Deirdre Auld (13:29)
Yeah, 100%.
Sara Abernethy (13:30)
Yeah, but all that to say that you, you know, you've been around the block in front and back of house for basically ever since you were legally allowed to work and you spent the better part of a decade, if not more with the Coda Group before you left to pursue Tableside side and pursue coaching. Isn't that right?
Deirdre Auld (13:53)
Yeah, that's right. I was here for seven and half years before I transitioned out temporarily.
Sara Abernethy (14:00)
man, and you just know this group inside and out.
Deirdre Auld (14:04)
Yeah,
it's fun. It's like, it's fun to have both like the historical knowledge coming back this time, but also have fresh eyes. And it's, I think, been such a special experience because like, as you know, leaving the company, a big part of that was around growth and around like personal development. And I did a lot of work for a few years and intentional and unintentional. I don't, shouldn't help pretend like it's all, it was all intentional.
But it's like really special to have this moment in my life where I can come back and see the change in myself. And then also sometimes see like old parts of me come up, but have the tools to try to like work on pulling it back down again. And, you know, I don't, I feel lucky because I don't feel like everybody gets to have that opportunity for like outside, inside reflection.
Sara Abernethy (14:53)
I how can you not? You know, like you're in the same rooms, in the same building, many buildings, and in many cases, probably talking to the same people. Like, how can you not have old versions of you tapped on? I don't want say that word triggered per se. But
Deirdre Auld (15:08)
Sometimes.
Sara Abernethy (15:11)
I'm sure it happens. Like, that is very, very special. And I think that's a testament to both you and the Koda Group too. Thanks. Yeah, that you were willing.
to be reflective in that way. Like, can you say more about that? Like, not without getting too much into nitty gritty, but.
Deirdre Auld (15:32)
Yeah, yeah, I I think like, you know, one of the things that I found is like, when I left, I went to grad school at Northwestern. I focused on a program that really focused on kind of two things, adult learning, so individual development and change, and then also organizational change learning development. So and the program was really interesting, because I think, you know, there's a lot of other schools that separate those two concepts, but Northwestern's
MSLSE program really believes like how do you change an organization if you don't change an individual and vice versa. so deep. Yeah, yeah. I was like, I could probably argue that maybe my degree was just in philosophy. Who knows?
Sara Abernethy (16:14)
philosophy, but then the ability to put it into the English language and
Deirdre Auld (16:18)
and practice it.
Sara Abernethy (16:20)
practice it. Yeah.
Deirdre Auld (16:21)
Yeah, yeah, for sure. So, I mean, a lot of the program, it was very tedious because it was rigorous and academic, like the academic reading, academic writing was constant and a lot. However, it also had this angle that was very unique for grad school, which was every single writing also had to include self-reflection and self-assessment.
And like, you couldn't get away from it if you tried. Like, I will say coming out of it, I was like, I'm gonna take a moment. I don't need to read any more self -reflections for a few months, but it really pushed, you know, like my own boundary with like vulnerability, with self-assessment, with self-authenticity in a totally different direction. It made me value the sense of reflection.
Sometimes I still bring that a lot now to the group, like the sort of like, we're going to reflect whether you want to or not. And sometimes it doesn't always land for folks, but it does usually still have impact whether they, you know, initially see it or not. And I think being able to bring that energy back in both for myself and then also for the group has been really positive. We've seen positive outcomes in terms of like team dynamics improving in terms of operation improvement, you know.
not to get all researchy, but like, I think one of my favorite stats is Harvard Business Review did research and leaders that reflect tend to be more than 23 % improved at performance, just based on reflection than leaders that don't. And so just the simple practice can make big impacts in the organization, both with the teams and with ourselves. And I've found myself, like I think just that practice also,
really changes your position to respond versus react. And I would say like, you know, in the past, like my reactionary approach would be much higher than it is these days. There are times where I see it recently, I a moment where I was like, react, and I hadn't really seen that myself in a while. And it took me a little bit of time to be like, all right, let's like claw this back down and really be strategic about responding instead of reacting. So
It's going to be a lifelong process for me, I'm sure.
Sara Abernethy (18:35)
Even if that is such a rare gem in this industry, like so much of what we're trained to do in service, is reactive because there's a million things going on at any time. you know, I always equate running service to that play, Noises Off, where like you might see what's going on on the front end and you have no idea what kind of hilarity and chaos is going on in the back end, no matter what. Right. I mean, so much of it, you're just trained that way. And also I like.
How long, mean, the idea of having, I'm laughing because I'm laughing because I can just see the looks around the table when you're like, okay, and now we're going to have a moment of reflection and everyone is like, my God, like again. I could like imagine it in the context of my own company, particularly with my husband and business partner. Like I am all about self-reflection and growth in that way and Chris,
is, you know, Chris, you know, Chris, well, I think he's come a long way, but he is like so much more wont to like, let's just go for it. Let's just go for it. Like, why do we have to talk about our feelings? let's just make stuff happen. How what am I trying to say? How transformational would the industry be if we had more leaders who took that approach with their employees to like, take a moment to not only select and model that but encourage
people in the industry to do the same.
You know, it would just.
Deirdre Auld (20:08)
Yeah,
100%. I mean, I also think like...
It would be huge. Yeah, it would be so huge. And also it's like, I think the validating nature of giving time to say like, this is actually so important that we need to take a little bit of time to think about it, to talk about it, to look back on it, right? Like, it also gives validity to the work that folks do. Like even, you know, one of the approaches that we take is we do like, like our approach to what is often called a postmortem after we have, you know, big events or
big moments. So after New Year's, right, like the next everybody's expected to like write notes in a document that's shared space, that has some context or some questions that we're looking to sort of understand. And then at the next meeting, we all talk through that we let people sort of voice high as lows in betweens pivots, if we could do it again, what would we do differently. And I think it does two really important things. It's like maybe even three. So it's it's like, hey, we're making sure that next time it improves.
because we now have the data and we have the tangible facts and we have the experience. And it also sets up the team to say, learning is okay and a learning mindset is critical. Perfection is not real and achievable. So let's just be okay with constant improvements. And then it also says the work that you did was really valid and we're taking a moment to like think through it and shine a light. And even if it wasn't perfect, like we recognize the energy and the time that you put in to make this happen. So that.
folks could have this really special important moment or experience in their lives like New Year's Eve.
Sara Abernethy (21:44)
I think that's so fabulous. I wish we did this more. I wish we made time for this more. And so what I want to ask you is, what do you say to owners and operators that are like, yeah, that must be nice to have that much time? But it's not that you have more or less time or priorities than anybody else. You just make this.
you make this time and reflection a priority. Like you've been there, right? You've been in that moment. You've worked with people who've been in that mode. You've coached people who've been in that mode. What do you say to those people who are like, man, I would love to do that, but it just seems like we're never ahead of the ball. Like we're always, you know, catching up to the next thing. You know what mean?
Deirdre Auld (22:25)
Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think you know me well enough to know that usually what I say is a question. Not a statement. Because I'm a big believer in like people have to sort of get there on their own and coaching, especially the time and coaching and the time being coached like helps me to really understand that like, creating space for folks to think through is the way that they
achieve an outcome. usually I'll like ask them a question to that point of like, you know, what do feel like is preventing you or like, how might you adjust your time or what are your values? What's the ultimate thing that you're looking to achieve, you know, with your team and help them to sort of reassess like is a priority issue? Is it an understanding issue? Is it a insecurity like lacking confidence in the ability to facilitate that? Like, so usually try to find a
that will help gear the person towards a different frame. And then if that still doesn't work, then sometimes I'll say something like, let me offer an alternative frame.
Just lay it out there.
Sara Abernethy (23:30)
I mean, do you hear a lot of similar answers? Yeah.
Deirdre Auld (23:36)
Definitely. I I see a pattern. I think there's also patterns at like different levels of the organization. There's sometimes patterns with like different genders, different like styles of leader, like the willingness or the non willingness to engage in reflection and whatnot. I also like I think a lot of it is like, for myself to get it to be effective. Some of it is how you package it right? Like I
Jen generally don't go in and say like, it's time for self reflection. you know, I'll be like, we're gonna do an activity.
Sara Abernethy (24:13)
Leave the table, right?
Deirdre Auld (24:16)
Yeah,
no, and also it's not my personality, you know, that like I couldn't be further from Miss Rachel and so like I wouldn't go with like her mechanism
Sara Abernethy (24:25)
Yeah.
Deirdre Auld (24:26)
of moving. Full respect to her. I just, it's not in me.
Sara Abernethy (24:30)
And maybe...
Deirdre Auld (24:38)
And she's deeply impactful, right? But like, you know, it's not me. Yeah. So usually I'll do something that's like, kind of, I'll try to like use an activity or create a framework where it feels more like we're just collaborating on something, or we're just having a random talk through something, until I can get folks into the pattern. But then also in the backend, we do a lot of leadership development for our leaders. We do like a monthly intentional development here.
We do all the general managers and the executive chefs together once a month, and then all of our service manager, floor manager, sous chefs together once a month. And I do a lot of hammering this home there because it is space that is specific to the sense of development and leadership development. And so I'll just put it out much more blatantly in those spaces, the criticalness of reflection, the criticalness of learning.
critical desk of a learning mindset and then it's much easier for me to then like pull the through line back through in those meetings with our teams, manager meetings or planning sessions or whatnot when they're kind of like being conditioned into it through our development time.
Sara Abernethy (25:49)
Smart, real smart, as they say in Boston. Thank you. Yes, the wicked smart.
Deirdre Auld (25:54)
Exactly. Yeah, wicked smart.
Sara Abernethy (25:59)
Just
a quick break in today's conversation to extend an invitation to you. Your listenership and your support of the podcast truly, truly means the world to me. And it does take a significant amount of resources to produce this podcast. So if you have enjoyed these conversations,
If you want to help continue ensuring that these conversations and this visibility are available to the women in our community and the people who need it most, I invite you to join our Her Seat at the Table Patreon community. You can join for as little as $3 a month, which is basically like buying me a cup of coffee, which would be very appreciated.
And I do have some cute perks in there, everything from doing a live shout out of your name on an upcoming episode, all the way to an invitation to the upcoming Her Seat at the Table dinner party, which I host in the fall of each year in Raleigh, North Carolina. So thank you for considering. Thank you for listening. And let's jump back into our conversation.
Deirdre Auld (27:04)
Yeah, wicked smart.
Sara Abernethy (27:05)
Smart.
I do wanna go back and talk about how you made the decision to reinvest in yourself in higher education and when you knew it was time to do that. I do wanna ask you about...
your different eras of leveling up from leveling up to that like service manager level to that, that first time you took on the role of a GM of a location. And then when you leveled up from that to the director of operations, you are a unicorn hire in that you have both this beautiful tapestry of work ethic and realism, but also like
emotional intelligence to incorporate everything that's needed for a successful director of operations. It's a role that my company has really struggled to fill well and to this day. It's a role that my husband and partner Chris still fills. And then now CEO, and then like now you're like taking it up to CEO. So is there one we should go, maybe we should start with the reinvesting in self. Yeah.
Deirdre Auld (28:10)
Probably because I think that they're kind of tied together truthfully. I mean, I'll say, you know, from a very early age, education was always important. I mean, my mom is a teacher, as you know, and so in our home, like it was very important to be invested. It mean I was the best student in the world at everything by any stretch. I was always one of those people that like, if I liked it, I was all in. If I didn't like it, I was like, you know. Couldn't be bothered. Yeah, couldn't be bothered.
It'd be bothered as much as my parents could intimidate me into being
Sara Abernethy (28:40)
Yes.
Deirdre Auld (28:42)
But it was like important and you and I were very lucky to go to schools that like really offered a broad spectrum of learning opportunities. And really, I think like we were so privileged as kids, we went to magnet schools for both middle school and high school and schools that like focused on allowing people's
multitude of interests and talents and curiosities to be the focus. So, you know, there was a really strong math and science program at our school in high school, but also there was extremely strong music and dance and, you know, drama space. And then there was like all this creativity and like, we kind of went to this like weird freak school where like, it was totally cool to just be like yourself, right? And you didn't need to be
anybody else and I still think back to like girl riding or wearing roller skates, roller blades and fairy wings in the middle of the hallway at lunch. I don't know her name, but I visually think back to that all the time.
Yes, think you're right. I think you're right.
Sara Abernethy (29:54)
Get down with your bad self, girl. Like, go for it. And it just wasn't, nobody made fun of her. Cool
Deirdre Auld (29:59)
No, no, we were like, cool.
Sara Abernethy (30:01)
ways. do you. Yeah, cool wings
Deirdre Auld (30:04)
Yeah, cool wings. mean, like we all wore GRRR puff paint shirts that one of our dear friends made us in high school that were so silly, but so cute. And I think there's something really special for and something that I think a lot of kids don't get is like this centering on education being important and having access to like a wide variety of approaches, intensities, et cetera, but also that
you can be you to truly form, you know, what is important and what's priority, what you like to learn what you want to focus on. So foundationally, I think that that was a really critical part of like my learning journey as a human. And then I think it was probably like, you know, getting to the decision to go like leave my very safe and secure job and my like, very clear path to long term success. To go back to grad school, I think there are a lot of
you know, stops along the way of like, even when I made the transition into management, I was like, I want to be good at this. I had a very perfectionist mindset at the time too, which was good and bad. Yeah. As most. Yeah.
Sara Abernethy (31:13)
I'm sorry,
Deirdre Auld (31:15)
Cause like it drove me to learn and like be ambitious and consume everything I could. Like, I mean, I read constantly when I was the new manager, I was just like every book I could get my hands on about hospitality and leadership and business and like,
thoughts around, mean, like, I was just trying to form an identity in that space and form, like my own thoughts around it. And so I just was like consuming, consuming, consuming in the early part of my career. And then, you know, you kind of often have these moments where you like, are learning lot, and then you like kind of go into overload and need to just do and so then I was in a doing phase for a number of years where it's
I'm still curious, was still learning, but like maybe a little bit less of a clip. And then I found maybe around year four in the role as the director of ops, that I wasn't feeling challenged and things that would have been like crazy to like go through our learning moments. I was just like, yeah, I've seen it, you know. And I think that's normal in most roles, most jobs, most industries. But I have
I had to struggle with that because I just sort of had a never ending curiosity. so I had a manager that said it really well at one point in a conversation. She was a person I've worked with for long time. She's still in the company. So I'm delighted that I get to work with her again. And she made a transition to one of our other properties, which had like, she had come from our smallest property.
like no reservations, very casual, like very rarely ran a wait just like super neighborhood-y. And then we put her at one of our like high speed, very like sort of Tetris-y restaurants, the Salty Pig, that has way more reservations, but also is a massive walk in game. And you're just like, you are a prediction model of wait times and how do I maximize to make the restaurant drive revenue and profitable.
she said it super well when I said, what are you excited about in this transition? And she said, I'm just like so excited for like the host stand, like it's a part of my career. don't understand. It's a part that I don't have like locked in. And I'm like, just so excited for that. And when she said it, I was like, what is my host stand? Like, what am I excited about? What have I not accomplished that I wanted to? And I would say this is like that transition of year 4 to year five, because I was really proud of what we had accomplished.
Jim, my business partner, had said to me at the time when he was my boss, like, you know, it's gonna take at least five years for you to accomplish what you want to accomplish in this role. And he was 100 % right. And so I had that mentality of like, I'm sort of constantly working on a five year plan with the company for change and for growth and whatnot. And then I got to that point and I was like, okay, well, like what's next? And so I was finding, you know,
excitement or interest in small pockets, but I was like, had this like sort of deep, like, I need more. I'm like not improving and I'm not like, I'm getting better, you know, I'm sort of like at the ceiling at the time. And then I think like most other operators, pandemic happened and like everything shifted, you know, I guess I got what I asked for in terms of like something I hadn't seen before.
Sara Abernethy (34:41)
Yeah.
Deirdre Auld (34:44)
And I think it did two things. tested my resiliency, the team's resiliency, and it also forced perspectives for all of us in a lot of different ways. And there's something deeply changing about being responsible to lay 200 people off from their job, to terminate roles of folks
permanently that you have these like deep connective relationships with one of my closest friends at the time, we had to eliminate her role just when we were looking at like surviving the businesses successfully. And like those moments like, you know, change you as a leader and they make you really say like, what's important to me and where am I at? And so we, you know, got the restaurants back online. We were operating again. We were like in the past, the vaccine point in the clear of like operating normally.
And I just was like, is time for me to invest in me and my learning because I am at a ceiling. I have now survived what I think might be the worst. Cause also at the time we were in a pandemic when we were set to open, reopen, one of the restaurants had a fire and it's totally like a double whammy. So I was just like, okay, I really feel like I've seen a scope at this point and it's time for me to do a little bit of learning and.
So we moved back to Chicago for period of time. I went to grad school then and really just used that time to invest in what's both what's next, but also like, who am I at this point in my life?
Sara Abernethy (36:26)
Who am I now?
Deirdre Auld (36:27)
And who do I want to be and how do I sort of get there?
Sara Abernethy (36:30)
I think it's such a rare thing and I think people who have careers in this industry don't think about secondary education. Or they don't think of it as an option for a number of different reasons, but you're such a wonderful model and I hope people who are listening to this could see the potential of themselves in you and the choices that you made.
Deirdre Auld (36:48)
Thank you, I appreciate that. And I'll say, know, like it also, I have a huge position of privilege, right? Like I did not grow up a means, you know this, you better than most, but my parents were really big about instilling work ethic so that I could, bless you. It is that season, I am also like sniffing like a crazy person over here. Yeah, I mean, my parents instilled the work ethic to like push me to learn to like,
care of myself. you know, I worked really hard in my career, but I also, you know, got opportunities that other people would not necessarily have access to and then tried to be as diligent or as smart as I could to give myself the opportunity to then like go and pay for grad school. you know, I say that to say like, anybody should do it that wants to do it. But I also know that I have a position of privilege that not everybody is in a place where they can just jump back in and, and
pay for school and whatnot. so find a way.
Sara Abernethy (37:51)
lovely to acknowledge, but you also have worked very, very, hard. So let's not undermine that reality. Let's
Deirdre Auld (38:00)
Thanks.
Sara Abernethy (38:01)
try to away from it. think you actually are a freak in that you, if you're not working hard, you're not fulfilled.
Deirdre Auld (38:07)
Yeah, I'm like the the what's the thing that stops a shark if you stop swimming you die.
Sara Abernethy (38:11)
You die. I'm married to one. So
Deirdre Auld (38:15)
Yep, you sure are.
Sara Abernethy (38:17)
I know it well. But I think that is really cool. so going so can you I mean, do you remember do you remember what it felt like that first time you you elevated to the role of GM? Like what what do you think were some of the biggest record scratches of that time? And yeah, different it was looking at
a location and a team and yourself as a GM versus just service manager.
Deirdre Auld (38:44)
Yeah, that's a really good question. I think the first time I went from being service manager at the butcher shop and being the GM like six, seven months in, and it wasn't their plan. It was like a leadership team above me to have that happen. They had intended that the GM was going to be there longer. And I think...
I didn't feel as much of like the weight of the shift in that role because the team was so small and we were so tight knit and we all worked a million hours and we were like just excited and hungry. I knew that there was a shift and I felt a level of like weight around the business for better or for worse. A person who has been an incredible mentor in my life and has transitioned to being such an incredible friend and somebody I collaborate with a lot Eli Feldman was the director of operations when I started that company.
And he said to me in the first week, he's like, listen, this business has not been financially viable for a long time. And if you and the other manager don't fix it, we're going to close it in a year.
Super chill, very like him. But as much as it was like scary being like 23, 24 and being told like basically like you are responsible for whether or not people have jobs, it really impacted me with that sentiment around responsibility and like the sentiment around like being hungry to improve the business, being hungry to see what was possible.
And also I am naturally a person that if you tell me no, like I am just naturally an insubordinate person. Like it's coded in my DNA and as much as I try to drop it, it's never going to go away. So like you tell me no, or you tell me that something is not going to happen. I'm like, you. Right. Sorry for my cursing.
Sara Abernethy (40:38)
It's okay, it's totally welcome.
Deirdre Auld (40:41)
So I think there was like definitely a mentality shift of like, I have this team that I love. It is really important that we try to accomplish. But then I also really am a competitive person at the core too. And I really liked the GM that I had worked for and took a lot from her. But then I was like, well, I want to do better than she did because also like,
They're telling me I'm young and I should feel lucky that I got this job and that they're taking a risk on me and they're not gonna pay me as much because of it and blah, blah, blah, blah. And so then like, I'm just like, okay, well now I'm gonna like absolutely prove it to you. And then I think when I made that, you know, next transition into being a GM at number nine park, was fine dining. was the flagship for the Barber Lounge Grupo is really one of like the most...
important restaurants in Boston, that'd be the wrong word, from a fine dining perspective. Like, it had been James Beard a winning multiple times, it set Barbara on the map, and had sort of defined a service style in fine dining that was elegant and rustic and beautiful. And that one felt like a lot of, you know, weight and click. And I had a much bigger management team. And I think that that was really the first time where I had
and aired with my like one singular manager that I managed at Butcher Shop as a GM. But I was definitely more focused I think on like the staff management in totality. And I think No. 9 Park was where I was like, if I can't get the management team to be cohesive and successful and all rowing in the same direction, then we won't be successful because it's not valuable for you as a leader.
to have the best services because you're there if things crash and burn when you're not there.
Sara Abernethy (42:29)
Exactly. It's gosh, it is such a trap people fall into this sort of martyr complex. And some people I don't I think really don't know that they're doing it. But it is not in service to yourself to be the the what do call it? The thing that the entire success of the business hinges on your presence there as such a valuable lesson to as an owner operator. It's not good for you. It's not good for the business and it's not good for the team. And
Deirdre Auld (42:58)
percent.
Sara Abernethy (42:59)
It's where people get this sort of like mired sense of identity and self-worth all like mix Yes to this pot and it's just not it's not sustainable. It's not true. In fact, think a much better Indicator of strong leadership is how does the business operate when you're not there?
Deirdre Auld (43:18)
100%. And I think, you know, this is not founded in research, this is anecdotal, but I think that the industry actually has a harder time with this because it is, there is very little glory in the restaurant industry. is very, you know, there's little reward from like a financial perspective, from a time off perspective, from like benefits, from like public perception.
Front of House has the benefit of like the direct tangibility of a guest's happiness and enjoyment. Back of House has a little bit more of the like media presence, attention, et cetera, right? But neither of those things is enough to make a person like fully feel actualized or realized. And so I think it creates this vacuum where being a hero in service, being the cornerstone can...
like be addicting for folks like it can be like, okay, well, that's my reward center, you know, like my dopamine hits are like, we crush service and like I saved the day and whatnot. And so we can understand why a lot of us fall into this trap, but it really is a trap to your point, like it really is. And it does not serve the longevity of the team. And I think, you know, one of the other challenges in the industry is that like,
We have an urgency complex and we have a right now complex where everything is right now, everything is urgent, everything is important, everything is immediate. And those things aren't real and true. And we often forget about, we are trying to run businesses that are gonna last 10, 20, 30 years. And if your perspective is just about right now, you kind of have to be like...
severance to like split in half, you're always looking ahead and you're always looking in the moment because there are immediate things, know, somebody has something go wrong in service, you have to address it right away. An employee gets hurt, you have to address it right away. But a lot of the decision making a lot of the like more critical behaviors to long term success have to be modified in order to make sure that the business can be sustainable for the long run.
Sara Abernethy (45:30)
real you also get like people who are attracted to this industry are fulfilled by people pleasing or many of them. And I am one. you are one it is so hard to learn how to do that. But I do think it is like lifting heavy weights. I do think it has gotten easier for me at least for sure over time and with practice.
Deirdre Auld (45:54)
Yeah, yeah, the people pleasing in me is dead.
Sara Abernethy (45:58)
Love hearing that!
Deirdre Auld (46:00)
I'm like, oh, you don't like me? That's funny for you. I actually had an employee text me last night. She and I were talking about something that we have going on from a PR perspective. And she's been with the company for really long time. And she wrote me this hilarious note about she was like, so many men hate you because of the confidence. And I was like, jokes on them that I don't care.
Sara Abernethy (46:25)
Yeah, mean, too bad.
Deirdre Auld (46:28)
Yeah, too
bad. And that is, yeah, but I think that that's also like a really important thing as leaders think about their own development is to think about like, how can you ensure that your confidence is not centered around other people's perspectives, experiences? Yeah, proof all right. Like you do want it to be to some degree centered around like, am I creating positive and healthy spaces for folks? Am I creating like
a space where people can live a full and whole life successfully in my businesses. Like some of that should be tied, but not like, do they like me? Like no one is for everyone, except for maybe you, Sarah. I think you might be for everyone. You are a unicorn in that way. No, no, no. It's always been true, but outside of you, no one is for everyone.
Sara Abernethy (47:13)
Well, thank you. But I am so glad you've unlocked the key to this. I am going to spend my lifetime learning how to separate that. Actually, since I've been more out of day-to-day operations, I've gotten a lot better about that.
Deirdre Auld (47:32)
I love that.
Sara Abernethy (47:33)
cause I have in the last year, I mean, that's sort of part of why this, podcast has come to be is because I've been trying to figure out what is my next era in my business look like? What was my next era in my life look like? and being out of day to day operations was a big part of that. It was hard. was so humbling, so
Deirdre Auld (47:52)
Yeah.
Sara Abernethy (47:53)
humbling. And even now I catch myself like there are things that I see happening that
You know, I can see four steps ahead. I can see where this conversation is going to go wrong or this initiative is going to go wrong. And I have to be like, yeah, I am not. That is not my role anymore. It is not the best use of me to like get myself, you know, mired in the mix of that to fix it. Like I
Deirdre Auld (48:17)
total.
Sara Abernethy (48:17)
have to do that anymore. it's so hard. But but the reward of that is I really am thinking a lot less and and worried a lot less about is everyone like me?
Because it just doesn't matter as much.
Deirdre Auld (48:32)
It doesn't matter. No, the irony is that like, well, the irony is like, for me, I'm like, but everybody likes you. So why do you care?
Sara Abernethy (48:43)
They don't, but it's okay. It's okay. They don't have to. They don't have to.
Deirdre Auld (48:49)
No, and most of the time, know, it's like, like I said, not everybody is for everybody. Sometimes the problem is with the person. Sometimes it's just like, it's not a fit.
Sara Abernethy (48:56)
is with you.
Deirdre Auld (48:58)
Exactly.
Sara Abernethy (48:59)
It's not me, it's you. It's not me.
Deirdre Auld (49:02)
Although there are
a people I don't like that I do think it's them.
Sara Abernethy (49:05)
No, no. Yes, yes, yes. That's okay. So do you find now that you have ascended to the next level of CEO, do you still feel like you're severance between the right now and the looking ahead? Or do you feel like you've been able to make more time for the looking ahead as the visionary? mean, isn't it's funny you're bringing this up too, because in this moment, we are in a
we are in a moment of what is our host stand? what is the next five years for us? And actually it's funny, it was the team, it was the incredible leadership team that we've developed who was asking that question. What
Deirdre Auld (49:55)
I love that.
Sara Abernethy (49:56)
is next? Like what are we building towards next? And we've been thinking about that a lot. So for you, how you taking out?
Deirdre Auld (50:04)
Yeah, I'll answer that. But I will say, I love that you're giving credit to the team. But you and Chris set the foundation for giving them the space to come up with that question. And you set the tone for their level of interest and curiosity. So you got to take some of the credit there, too. Look at you go. So what? Yes, that's good question. I do think at this point, I am way more firewalled about my own time and my focus.
You know, I think one of the big things is like I a mentality shift around like give people their agency. I think also a lot of us that get into this industry are like helpers naturally we want to help we want to support we want to protect and like that's really beautiful thing and the industry does need that it's a part of why we went from like raging psychotic owner chefs restauranteurs to like more
appropriate and balance as having folks that are helpers and are do-gooders and protectors. And, you know, I always fall into the trap of like, I'll help, I'll jump in, I'll whatnot in the early part of my career. Like, definitely to my detriment. My doctor was like, girl, you got to sleep. You know what I mean? But at this point, I do feel like so much more firewalled around that. And it's not that I won't, but what I found is
One, I shouldn't write the schedule for the team. I should not write the schedule for the senior leaders because my empathy center overruns and then I'm like, I'll just do it, I'll just do it. So I shifted that behavior to our director of service where she writes the schedule for the senior leadership team to some degree for me and for our managing partner as well. Like we have obviously autonomy, but she is the one who's like, tap, tap. Can you work this shift? Can you support this person? Can you be present here?
so we think one it's fun cause it sort of forces her to learn a new skill, which is like the managing up in a different way, but also it is my firewall of preventing myself from doing. So it's given me the chance to really focus on working on the business instead of working in the business. And I don't think there's ever a time where only one of those things will exist. think they do have to exist, but it's just about how much time you spend when and where.
I think year one of being in the role was like, a little bit of data and research and understanding a little bit of small pivots, some big pivots. was really focused on how do we make each business healthy and whole and really push revenue push like retention push are the right people in the right places. Let's sort of do a little bit of cleanup. then year two is for us all about.
developing systems that can allow us to grow and scale successfully. So, you know, we do an annual planning now, this is our second year of accomplishing it. The focus is to say what are the most important and imperative things for us to address, do a SWOT analysis, we look at, you know, sort of interests, we look at gaps, we look at, you know, opportunities and strengths, and we decide, you know, what are the few goals, because
we don't want to take on too many, has to be realistic, feasible, viable, desirable, we got to hit all those, right? So then each person is sort of tasked with one really like big important goal to run with for this year. And all of those are centered around the concept of successful and stable growth. So the idea is that this year becomes foundational for us, like repeating and moving and adding more properties and
developing more brands and pivoting to other points of the industry as well. And so I just sort of had that be like my like North Star of my time and my focus and whatnot. And then also I think some of it is defining the position, defining the roles, like the more definition, the more clarity. And we still have a lot of work to do on this, but for example, we've made it like very clear like,
I'm really not involved in staff conversations. Like unless it's extreme, unless it's a very long tenured employee that there's just like a specific relationship dynamic. I'm really only involved in management conversations. And even then I'm like always involved in senior leadership conversations. I'm 50 % involved in management conversations, but I also still try to take a back seat on those and look at it more as like a coaching opportunity for whichever other senior leader is like driving the boss on that.
Sara Abernethy (54:54)
I have you in my head when this has come up in the last couple of years. People come and they're like, we need to fix this issue. And I'm like, OK, Deirdre would ask a question. really, I'm like, great. What is it about?
I love to try and find a way to ask the question of what is preventing you from fixing this issue. That is like where I'm trying to get to where I'm trying to help have myself get to so that instead of me jumping in and being the fixer, like, my God, you brought me a problem and this is hard for you and I got to fix it so I can get you happy tilting that towards no, let's let's have
Let's bring you through a thought exercise of articulating the issue and giving you a coaching moment to empower you to come up with the answer. Also, as we know, it's like if you tell someone the answer, they don't give a shit. If they come to the answer themselves, then they, it's, know. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Deirdre Auld (55:57)
Yeah,
100%. I love a metaphor. And I think what you're describing is like, when you use GPS to drive around all the time, you never ever, ever learn where you're going. I have literally been living in Boston for over 12 years. No, I'm almost at 15 at this point.
there, I'm using GPS, I still don't even know like certain roadways that I've driven a million times. And that's on me, because I have to take the governor off at some point and be a little bit more thoughtful about it. But yes, I think you're 100 % right. Like, and this is where it gets really difficult. And that it requires intentional internal self speak, right? For those of us that are recovering perfectionists, or deep carers or have like an overactive empathy center, like,
you know, you want to strike this balance where you're like, it is about giving people agency, agency to choose, agency to lead, agency to voice what is important for them to speak up for themselves. And then you also want to coach so that they can be successful in their decision making and they can like learn from and not repeat bad patterns, but to repeat good patterns or good choices.
And then you also have to balance like where I think now my most like regular internal self-speak is, like, I'm often telling the employees, the team members and managers, like, you know, I already know how to do this. So we're going to let you do this because you got to learn how to do this. I don't want to steal something from you. I don't want to steal a portion of your development, your education, your learning, your skillset building. But then also like, I know at this point in my job.
They all see me, I'm still very, very present in organizations, but like, I don't close the restaurants ever anymore. And I am not there as late as I once was. I am here hours before them every day and they don't see that. And that's not their burden to bear either. But I have to be mindful of saying like, how much is important for me to show that I'm willing to do versus.
Am I doing that because I feel guilty and I'm trying to appease my ego or try to level set and it is important to just be like, all right, what is really the critical thing for this person for the role, for the job, for myself in this moment and try to negotiate that internally with yourself so that you're not feeling bad, that they feel like you maybe don't work as much as they think you should or when they think you should. But also it's like most of that is self-projection, right?
most of that is me making, yeah, it's like me making an assumption. Yeah.
Sara Abernethy (58:43)
Yes, I know exactly what you mean. I do still feel, I mean if I'm just being honest, feel guilty. It feels kind of the same thing as like mom guilt, but like you're just, I do feel guilty that I'm not on site more right now, but.
if you know me, you may know that I have two children under the age of four. And so the choices that I have made in my life are to prioritize being at home right now. Nobody can replace me there. But it is uncomfortable being out of the, it's uncomfortable. And coming to the realization that like,
if I were to make a request or I were to try and do something to help, would actually cause more problems for the operations staff that help at this point. Because I don't know the process anymore.
Deirdre Auld (59:41)
Totally.
I mean, yeah, it's like when somebody asks me like, when a steps of service, it's very finite detail. I'm like, why don't you tell me?
Sara Abernethy (59:50)
You tell me. Yeah. Or really, truly like not not knowing everyone's name is you might not have that issue, I have a very hard time.
With that, I'd really try and do my best, but we have a hundred employees and turnover is so high. I, again, like, I am not in day to day operations anymore. And so a lot of times I'll walk through the building and there's somebody I haven't met yet, somebody I don't know. And I try my best to introduce myself whenever I can. But also that's not always like, it just doesn't always make sense. Gosh, I feel like an asshole saying that out loud.
Deirdre Auld (1:00:27)
No, no, I don't I think I think so much of it is like, you know, this is actually I think a really good one, right? It's like we, I think a big talking point for us this year, as we pivot some of our like management behaviors to being more learning oriented, as we talk a lot about intent versus impact, and how just because you intended does not mean that you didn't make impact, positive or negative, right? And I think that that can go two ways. And
And I think, you a lot of it is like, you have all the right, I've known you for years, you have all the right intent in the world, you care so deeply about people, like, to a detriment and care so much about them, their well being and who they are. And so the intent is so good. And the impact will probably show positively or does probably show positively because it's authentic, you can see that and you can feel that. And so like, if you're missing,
moment to meet somebody if you're missing a name, like, it's like, how do pivot from that? You know what I mean? Like, because like, yeah, your intention is not. And then the flip is true for folks where sometimes like, you know, we talk about like, one of managers like, well, I didn't mean that. And it's like, okay, but it's still an impact. And that's what you have to own.
Sara Abernethy (1:01:43)
huh, huh. Okay, I could talk to you forever, but I do want to be respectful of your time and your day. I know that you've got so much going on, but I do want to ask you, this is something I want to ask all of our guests here at her seat on the table.
As aforementioned, you choose this career because you're passionate about it. Like you said, the gain is very, very little in terms of the traditional ways that people might see motivation or success, right? It's very difficult in this phase of life to prioritize play and joy.
And a lot of times we are guilty of taking an interest that we might have and turning it into a side hustle. I know I am. Yes. Is there anything that you're doing for yourself for just play and joy and unicorn space without any other alternative?
Deirdre Auld (1:02:41)
Yes, in fact, and it's like so silly. I started embroidering a little over a year ago. I'm obsessed with it. like, it kind of came from like a really stupid reason. Like I was like watching TV and then being on my phone and I was like, what am I doing?
Sara Abernethy (1:02:58)
What am I doing? It is destroying my nervous system.
Deirdre Auld (1:03:02)
Yes.
And I was like, I actually think I just need to do something with my hands. And like, I don't always want to like visually be looking at a TV. So I think that's why I had my phone in my hands. And I was like, I just kind of want to hear and like start to like come down and whatnot. So I started embroidering and I've really loved it. It's fun and silly. then it's so funny that you talk about the side hustle piece because last year, one of my closest friends, her dog passed and this was like the love of her life.
And so for Christmas I gifted her and her partner, I guess that a hand embroidered napkins are all like images of their dog and like the little nicknames that they had and whatnot, just like as a keepsake, right? And it was really like, I feel privileged that I got to make it because it was so wonderful to be able to create that. And then also I knew that it was going to be like meaningful to them. And then like, I kid you not, like within a few weeks, months, et cetera.
what another dear friend was like, can I pay you to make these for me? And then somebody else was like, can I pay you to make these for me? And like, I do try to have an energy of yes, as much as possible. And so I was like, okay, like, let me think about this is really just a passion project, whatnot. And then eventually I had to just be like, no, you know, like, I need to just do this for me. It's when it feels right. It's when I feel like I want to either make something that is fun and silly and just takes time or
that I want to make something that's intentional and specific for a person that I love to like show them care and thought. And I have to like really be like, no, I'm not, these are not for sale. My time is not available. It is just for me, but that is my, that's my funsies habit right now.
Sara Abernethy (1:04:46)
I'm so proud of you for saying no, I'm sure that was actually really hard. And
Deirdre Auld (1:04:50)
Super hard. Super hard.
Sara Abernethy (1:04:52)
it was very kind and considerate of those people to offer to pay you to do it.
Deirdre Auld (1:04:56)
my gosh, so lovely.
Sara Abernethy (1:04:57)
I get that, I get that intention, I've done the same thing, but for you to just preserve and protect your unicorn space, and you don't wanna be on the hook for some, it just like changes the whole energy of it.
Deirdre Auld (1:05:09)
Totally. Yeah. Totally. And like, you know, also like going all the way back to that point of like, I am also a person of like, if I want to do something, I'm going to do it as hard as possible. But
Sara Abernethy (1:05:22)
Yeah.
Deirdre Auld (1:05:22)
if I don't want to do it, or if it hasn't like kind of come from an internal decision making, it's like, it'll take me forever. It would take me like years to make something.
Sara Abernethy (1:05:33)
And then you'd mad at yourself.
Deirdre Auld (1:05:39)
Yep, exactly,
exactly.
Sara Abernethy (1:05:42)
Cool.
So I was like, haha, like, I am the worst, truly the worst at having an interest and then letting it take over my whole personality and then turning it into a business plan. So I'm currently currently my obsession is just the study of Love
color. I've always loved color. I'm a colorful person. I got my color analysis done last year, which is something I wanted to do for a long time and I loved it. And then I'm
actively fighting right now, actively fighting the urge to go get certified to do color analysis and start a side hustle doing that for people, but only for people that I would want to do it for. And when I say color analysis, I'm talking about like somebody,
Deirdre Auld (1:06:24)
Winter, spring, summer, fall.
Sara Abernethy (1:06:26)
somebody draping with colors and seeing like, do you have a warm or cool undertone? are the best colors that bring out your natural features? Yes.
Deirdre Auld (1:06:33)
Are you a spring?
Yes, I knew it.
Sara Abernethy (1:06:37)
I'm a true spring girlfriend. I think you are a true summer.
Deirdre Auld (1:06:42)
winter. I'm a jewel tones all the way like cerulean blue and like emerald green purples.
Sara Abernethy (1:06:51)
Okay, fair. Okay, fair, fine. I get that. Anyway, so in actively dismissing that, thought, why don't you just like go to the library and check out a book about color theory? Or like, is there a basic 101 color theory class or free YouTube video you could watch? Not to, not to,
like make anything out of it or start a new career but just purely for the pleasure of enjoying and understanding color better in our world.
Deirdre Auld (1:07:21)
Okay, I'm obsessed with this. We are gonna have to talk about this. Cause I don't know if you know, but with my undergrad, one of the classes we had to take was color theory. And I think about it all the time. all the time. Like, cause it really matters, especially in space. mean, that was tied to architecture and interiors and like, it's so impactful in people's space and how they feel about themselves and what they see around them. Also like, you know, like you can study to improve your color spectrum.
visibility. And I don't know, I'm so excited offline, we're gonna have to have like a whole color theory.
Sara Abernethy (1:07:56)
do kind of feel like it has like unlocked this new level for me of just seeing the world.
Deirdre Auld (1:08:02)
Yeah, love that.
Sara Abernethy (1:08:04)
Like it's a puzzle to do and I do love a puzzle. I don't have time to do puzzles right now, but I do love a puzzle moment.
Deirdre Auld (1:08:14)
But I love that framing because also it's like having to try to name the nuance of the color in real life is like, is really stimulating for your brain and also always interesting to hear how other people see it. My partner and I talk about this all the time because he's like, that's brown. And I'm like, well, it has a lot of green undertones to it. So we're kind of scooting towards the olive end and he's like, that's brown. And I'm like, no.
Sara Abernethy (1:08:43)
The biggest mind melt that I've come across so far is there is no one true color. Like color changes depending on what it's next to and what it's on top of and like, my God.
Deirdre Auld (1:09:01)
Okay, I love that you're not starting a business, but like maybe you just start a religion around this.
Sara Abernethy (1:09:07)
Start a movement!
Deirdre Auld (1:09:10)
Like I could get, I mean that just like you just described like the essence of life, right? Like context is everything. I don't know. Tell me where to sign up for the cult
Sara Abernethy (1:09:21)
Okay, all right. You'll be the first on the mailing list.
Deirdre Auld (1:09:24)
Okay, perfect.
Sara Abernethy (1:09:26)
I love you so deeply. I admire you and respect you so much. Are you gonna go to Fab?
Deirdre Auld (1:09:32)
Yes, definitely. I will be there. I know I can't wait to see you there. You're gonna go to share to right?
Sara Abernethy (1:09:37)
be there. Ten years, ten year anniversary of so it's gonna be a big year. But that means as soon as you make your travel plans you are to let me know immediately so that I can get a dinner reservation.
Deirdre Auld (1:09:48)
yeah,
thank you. I love and respect you. I'm so proud of you for doing this. You were literally born to do this. I cannot wait until you are just Barbara Waltering everyone. It's awesome. So proud of you.
Sara Abernethy (1:10:01)
It's a very important group of people that need to be seen and that deserve to be heard. So thank you for saying that. I love you, buddy.
Deirdre Auld (1:10:08)
I love you.
Sara Abernethy (1:10:09)
Cheers, everybody.