Raising Men

In this episode of Raising Men, host Shaun Dawson sits down with Geoff Owen, founder of Aligned Parenting and author of The Parenting Assumption, to test-drive his new AI parenting agent. Built on Biologically Aligned Parenting, the agent gives parents somewhere to turn when a hard moment hits at 11 o'clock at night. Shaun brings a real one. His four-year-old daughter is warm and close when it's just the two of them, then pushes him away the moment her mom is home. Geoff reads that behavior as a signal about what she needs from her environment. He explains benign authority, the steady place a parent stands no matter what a child says. Shaun also owns a moment he missed on the morning they recorded, when his daughter asked for breakfast and he answered from his office. You'll learn why rudeness doesn't always need correcting, and why answering promptly matters so much.

Key Takeaways
  1. Read difficult behavior as a signal. Geoff asks what's missing from the child's environment, and what you can supply so the behavior stops being necessary.
  2. Stand in benign authority. That's Geoff's term for the calm, settled place a parent stands no matter what a child says or does, and your child depends on you to hold it.
  3. You don't have to answer every rude moment. Keep providing the right environment and carry on, and over time the behavior starts to settle.
  4. It isn't your child's job to confirm you're a good parent. If a four-year-old's words wound you, ask why you've handed her that power.
  5. When your child calls and the task can wait, stop and go to them. "In a minute" doesn't make sense to a young child, and being close beats shouting down the stairs.
"It's not her job to confirm your ability and success as a parent." - Geoff Owen

"When a child's rude to you, you've got to do something about it. When actually you don't." - Geoff Owen

"The things that we want from our children, they've already got. It's all there, just like the seed." - Geoff Owen

Chapters

00:00:00 Introducing Geoff Owen's AI Agent
00:02:05 Testing a Sample Parent Prompt
00:04:20 Behavior as a Signal Explained
00:06:02 Shaun's Daughter Pushes Him Away
00:09:39 What the AI Agent Recommends
00:12:55 Handling It as a Team
00:14:13 Stepping Into Your Benign Authority
00:19:47 When Your Child's Words Hurt
00:21:31 Obedience or Cooperativeness from Children
00:22:39 The Seed and the Oak
00:28:42 A Missed Morning Breakfast Moment
00:32:41 Honoring the Five Innate Expectations
Books, Links and Frameworks Mentioned

Links and Websites

Geoff Owen's parenting agent: https://geoffreyowen.com/ask
Biologically Aligned Parenting with Geoff Owen: https://raising.men/episodes/biologically-aligned-parenting-with-geoff-owen

What is Raising Men?

Raising Men is a podcast about parenting, masculinity, and the lifelong journey of raising sons—and ourselves—to be men of courage, character, and purpose. Hosted by Shaun Dawson, each episode features real conversations with parents, leaders, and thinkers redefining what it means to raising men in today’s world.

welcome back to raising men

today on the Raising Men podcast

we're joined by Doctor Samuel Eshelman Latimer

Doctor Samuel is a clinical and social psychologist

conflict management specialist

a researcher

and the founder of fostering growth and cooperation

he blends modern clinical science with

social psychology to help individuals

families

and organizations navigate deep seated conflict

and build meaningful connections

Doctor Samuel welcome to raising men

good to be here with you

and then I need to put I need to

I need to have a break for a second

so my son is home from school today because he's sick

and he just came up and is interrupting me

about 5 minutes later than it would have been

convenient what's up baby

I'll be done in 45 minutes

in 45 minutes we'll talk about it okay

no this is my second

okay so go downstairs

I'll meet you down in my room when I'm ready for you

okay

thank you sweetheart

okay

yes you will

thank you baby

um

okay maybe keep it on the episode

but say that again maybe keep it on the episode

you don't have to but that's um yeah

some listeners might identify with this happening

but anyhow I love it actually

yeah maybe we do

maybe we do so Ralph

just a little just a little clip of that

yeah think about that

you know and

and this is this is the wonderful thing about

it's sort of wonderful and it's also

you know it's just embrace the challenge

I remember I had this uh

I we did an episode lake and I um

where it was it was the week of Father's Day

and so for that for that week

the two I tried to do two episodes a week and the

the episodes that week were one

I was interviewing my son

and then the other I was interviewing my father

and so I get into this episode with him and it

and I had it all it did the whole thing

the episode map and

and all of these questions and stuff

and it was all like

really laid out like a normal episode would be

and he just blew it up

he I from minute one he was just not gonna cooperate

he's not like he didn't want to answer the questions

he wasn't engaging with the thing

he was just acting silly he what

you know

he was he's used to watching YouTube where it's

you know topper or whatever acting like a goofball and

and that's what he was there to do

and I got really frustrated for about

you know a minute I'm like ah

you know what like this is this is falling apart

it's falling apart finally I'm just like

you know what whatever

let's see what happens and it ended up being

you know kind of uh

it would end up being a really fun episode and and uh

I I

I mean

I was worried that it was just gonna be too silly and

but you know

I mean it is what it is

and that is that's what we're doing

so it's OK hundred percent

um

so but here's my question for you

it seems to me that we have

we have a lot of modern challenges both

I mean just personally but

and I absolutely as parents

um you know

the world that my son is growing up in

is so radically

different than the world that I grew up in

that it's there

there might as well be foreign countries

um personally

professionally within the family

all of these things and our biology

our brains

are just not suited to kind of the way the world is

it's moving so fast it's changing so fast

but your position as I understand it

and you know

I'm sure that you'll correct me

is that

looking back to some of the ways that older societies

like hunter gathering societies

navigated their challenges can help us navigate ours

so tell me more about that

yes I mean

some of the things that we study

are actually modern phenomena

like artificial intelligence or other modern phenomena

but when we look at parenting or relationships

parenting in particular

goes back for hundreds of thousands of years

so parenting is really

not actually fully a modern phenomenon

so this is part of why in order for me to trust

you know what really works for parenting

I really believe that we need to take into account

um going back these hundreds of thousands of years

to see what parenting was like in history

and not

so we can copy everything exactly the way that it was

because there are many ways that

I am very grateful that we're in 2026

and not um

hundreds of thousands of years ago

but we do need to understand it better

to be able to incorporate it

and see what aspects of parenting

in modern society are not working

so we can do this in a better way

yeah I love the

that framing is is so good in terms of like

let's look at what isn't working and then okay

then let's look at all the wisdom of all of the

of all of the generations that have come before us

and see what of

that might be applicable to this problem

this thing that isn't working

so and it seems obvious

it's one of those things that's very simple

but it's not obvious right

and so tell me what I mean

what are some of those things that

in your view aren't working

yes so when I look at

for example and this is one example

but looking at for example

the boys who are going off to college

or the teenage guys who are going off to college

and they're dropping out of college

for example

maybe dropping out of college for different reasons

but not able to for example

like do the laundry or the dishes

so they're not able to excel

to become like whoever they wanted to become

or this sort of like successful

successful thing because

they're not even feeling motivated

to be able to do some of the basics right um

this is one example of the way that we might overlook

teaching

our boys to be just basically helpful in the moment

you know sometimes we have these

these big goals about who people can become

and who they might be in the future

but uh

forget about the notion of like

literally just washing the dishes right now

and can we do this all in a helpful way together

and this is an example that really

I believe

if we look at modern day hunter gather societies

like the Maya the

Maya are so great at helping kids to do chores

cooperatively from very young ages

and getting involved and being really helpful

at those young ages

and so that is part of the practice of like teaching um

helpfulness and being a part of things

and feeling useful in that process

versus this more like

um

do it yourself

for more narcissistically inclined notion

that ends up with people being more lonely

or not being able to really finally find their place

so let me let me restate what I've heard from you and

and and get your feedback about about that so I mean

a lot of in our in our modern kind of world and I

I think this well

let me just let me just state what I think

which is that

we've become a little bit of a sink or swim

little uh uh

culture in the sense that okay

I'm gonna stick a basketball in front of my kid

and if he's able to sink a bunch of baskets

then okay well

let's let's cultivate that

and you're gonna go be a basketball player and

and that has a bunch of drawbacks associated with it

like like first of all

he's not ever really given the opportunity to cultivate

it's kind of fortune like

like luck whether or not it happens

he's not given the opportunity to cultivate the skill

but it also creates

it puts all the onus on him to either excel or or fail

and that's actually not the way we're wired

we're wired as social creatures

and we're wired for him to kind of be like

like the way that where he's really wired

is to watch dad and his friends play basketball

and then at the very end

come in and shoot a couple of baskets and then

you know kind of sit at the periphery

but then participate a little bit

is that is that is that is that a fair yes

conclusion summary right yes

that right now um

right now that your son has a function in the household

right now and so right now and

and it could be learning um

basketball it can be as well going to with dad to work

yeah and to do the work together

and some of those other basic things are

basic things that we do around the household

and having a purpose or function

but it's not simply you just you know

you can kind of chill and watch TV now

and then you're gonna become a concert violinist later

and so that that notion of these gaps

that we have in modern society

and sometimes it's because um

and and this is the hard part

this is the honest part as parents

we often feel like it's

it's hard to do a chores with the kids

it's hard to involve them in life

so I'll just do it myself yeah

I'll do they they suck at doing the chores

I'm gonna have to sweep the floor

they do after so first of all

I'm gonna have to convince my kid to do it

and I'm gonna have to browbeat him into doing blah

blah blah and all these things

and then I'm gonna just have to do it myself

because he's gonna do a bad job

and so like I got I don't have the time

I've got and I've got to be at work in 30 minutes

what I mean so yeah

I I get it the pressures

this these modern pressures are short circuiting

the kind of cultural and societal

opportunities that we have with our kids

and then as a result

we end up in this situation where a

they're helpless and b I'm overworked right yes

100% and so

and if you notice so the

the little ones more like the

the twos and the threes and the fours

they want to do the chores

interestingly enough it's kind of bizarre

but they they want to

they want the grab they'll grab it

and that's them saying I want to help yeah

but we have to remember that

and the Maya are so good at this

they really know that

the little ones don't learn so quickly

it takes a long time and so it's worth our patience to

you know spend time out in the garage or the yard

or whatever we're doing right

and and just worth the patience

it's a lot of patience

and not being so critical sometimes about it

but just like you know

if they're getting in there and trying and so forth

like this is a big step

this is a huge step for them when they're teenagers

not hating it because if we tell them go away

don't do it don't do it

you can't do it then when they're teenagers

sometimes they'll say hell no

I don't wanna do that yeah

yeah I get that yeah

so there's actually two benefits that I'm

that I that I see of it

number one it increases your connection right here

now in the moment

but the other thing is it is actually giving them

those capabilities and skills for later on

and so it's they're

they're acclimated to it when they're 13 14

15 and they're capable of it when they're

and it's not a frustration helping

you know helping in the garage isn't a

isn't a source of frustration for them

because they've done it and they know that

so it

it it

it provides all those benefits

it's a it's a real virtuous cycle there

yes absolutely

yes and it

and it goes along with this notion

which is um

which has a place for it does have a place for

for play and some of our modern um

ideas about uh

the toys that we have

but it kind of use those things as secondary

and so both like Michaeline Duke left with Hunt

Gather Parent and others um

and Elena Bridges and others have articulated this

and they're kind of like saying that like

look like it's

it's not um

you know having

like the amount of toys that we have

and the things that we have

all of these like other enrichment types of things

that those are kind of like secondary things

those are kind of like the sprinkles on top

but really the foundation of the household

in order for them to feel like they have purpose

it's really contributing to um

the family

and doing something helpful and doing something useful

and then that you know like

um when they help to

to set the table or or help with these little things

that this

really makes

a larger difference sometimes than some of the like

latest things that are out about

like this particular toy that lights up in this way

and teaches you how to read in this way

and in the second language

and I think um

for this essential part of

of feeling like a valuable member of the household

yeah I think back to my own

kind of early parenthood experiences

and I I bought a bunch of those things

sure right

I would totally see

I would see something advertised on Facebook or

or something I'd be like

oh yeah and what it did was it

it sold me that it was like a

it's like a weight loss plan

like a fad diet but

but for parenting it made me feel like

I could achieve the results of being this great parent

which at the time unconsciously

meant to me that I had a kid who could read earlier

or was really good at sports right like

like there was a there was a uh

a a external metric that

you know I could

I could brag about right

or point to and say oh

my kid is amazing because X

y and Z and

and I could get that but without a whole lot of effort

if I just bought this app and I

I did a bunch of that and I mean

I wouldn't have characterized it like that

that's the way I characterize it now because really

I was just kind of being lazy and um

and what I you know

what I've settled on now is a lot less of that like

like at least philosophically

what I'm discovering is

the experiences that we're having together and

and the I I can get actually

and now that I'm thinking about it out loud

I get that virtual cycle

that we were just talking about

if I can create some experiences that help him

and I just love teaching him things

and I love being part of watching him

cultivate his skills and get better at things um

I

the the more

the more connection we have and then the

the better he gets at those things

and so I'll give you a I'll give you a specific example

and then

I would love for you to weigh in on this example

in in the context that you were talking about with like

the Maya is I I

I about a year ago I started getting into playing golf

I've always hated golf my whole life

and I just decided that I was gonna get into it

and now I love it and I wanted my son to do that

and so at first I like

we went to the driving range together and

and you know I was giving you

this is exactly how you stand

and this is how you swing

and this is what you think about

and all of this stuff and he hated it

and now that I look back on that

I'm like of course he hated it

it's boring like this is stupid

we're standing in this like

Bay and like there's a bunch of people hitting around

he's not really getting a whole lot of success

and all that stuff and

but he actually started he came out with this

like unbelievable passion and unbelievable joy

that was so impressive to me

because he would hit a ball

and it would go in the air for 10 feet

and it would and he would take tremendous pride

in this accomplishment and it was

it bolstered me like it made me like

I don't feel that way I hit the ball way

way farther and it was

it's you know

a much better hit extensively

but he feels all this pride

and I feel like I could have hit it longer

I could have hit it straighter and all of these things

and that I Learned that from him

but then I he became

as things progress he became more like me

which is the opposite of what should have happened

I should have became more like him

and then when I finally let go of all that stuff

and I was like you know what

I'm just going to enjoy getting out there

and I'm going to just perform as well as I can perform

and just see what happens and then just enjoy it

and then I did that for him too

so once we got you know

within about 100 yards of the pin

I would throw his ball out and then you know

I would just say okay

you hit and I'll hit and then he you know

he hits his ball and it

maybe he hits it 10 times to get there

great or more fine

and then every and you know

some of the times

he'll hit the grass and it won't hit the ball

but over time he's getting better and better

and and we still have this enjoyable time out there

I'm not giving him any instruction

I'm just doing it in front of him

and we're doing it together

and it is this as a result

we really enjoy our time together and we really

really have fun and sure okay

if he gets better and loves the game

as a side effect to that that would be wonderful

but it's something we're gonna have to approach

obliquely

yes I love that example

because it goes into like learning new things

and so when I'm learning something new too

like the other day

I was learning something about the weed whacker

I think as an adult learning something new

the part that makes it negative is more our own inner

critical voice inside of our head

or the different thoughts that we have that say oh yes

you gotta get it right the shame of feeling like

I should already be good at this

yes exactly

the shame of that and so imagine

you know the freedom of

of a of a kid who doesn't do that yet

who can just like

pour themselves into it and try it and make mistakes

and it's okay and so

when I say not being critical

when they're learning something new

I don't mean that not correcting

like of course

sometimes we have to correct

we have to say hey

do this or do that but I mean

not doing it so often and so frequent

that we drown out the ability for them to try

and experience they just need to get their hands dirty

and for that to be good is

is huge yeah

the so

so much of

of parenting involves

just boils down to cultivating that fire in their belly

and the light in their eyes right

and then there is so much we can do to extinguish it

and that's one of those things

me sitting down there and giving him these rigid

you know

this is exactly how you're supposed to hit the ball

that that was dousing fire on the fire

or is a sorry

he's dousing water on the fire

and instead of cultivating it

now some amount of that is like

if he's getting frustrated

why can't I hit the ball I'm only hitting the grass

well let's try this

that cultivates the fire it ignites the fire

it puts the light in his eyes

but doing too much of it pours water on it and

and so like

I think that's the

that's the balance that we're trying to bring

and that's I mean

I feel like taking it back to the original uh

original hypothesis here is

that's what

the hunter gatherer societies were sort of

forced to do like

they didn't have the option of having a layabout son

who didn't know how to hunt right yes

then the tribe dies

and so it was really a life or death kind of

situation for them

and much more than it is for us

like OK

if my son lives at home until he's 30

that's bad but I mean

it's not and so much of what brings yes

incentive and purpose and meaning to those things

because yes

the the trend that you just mentioned

about more people staying at home until they're 30

or so forth and Gen Z has um

a greater percentage of young adults who live at home

than

really any of the other previous generations before it

up until into their 20s and um

and with the percentages there right yeah

and so it's like it is generally for some people

it is why why make money if my parents have money

why um

they don't say this out loud

but why why try all of that

if you're making all my meals it

it

there really is this this incentive that comes from no

you we need you

you are a valuable part of this household

and we need you and even for those things

for parents with consequences

I'd rather they do um

they can do like manufactured consequences

which we can all do

which is take away your phone and I will do this

and that's fine but we can also do natural consequences

which is today I don't have more money to give you

because I had to spend it on this instead

so I actually don't have any

which is hard for people who have money to do

or because we didn't do this

now there's cockroaches in the kitchen because there

because when you don't clean

then you you have roaches and so yeah

and now we're gonna have those are natural roaches yes

yeah so go get the roach killer

and we're gonna have to pick up the bodies

and I like all that stuff yeah yeah

yeah and exaggerate it

say that that's gonna be full of roaches

you know because this is the connection

the real reasons parents want to say the connection is

so you can be responsible 20 years from now

but a child

they can't wrap their minds around that and they don't

can't wrap their minds around that like

I don't care about what's gonna happen

I mean I care about what I'm gonna have for lunch

that's right that's right

and so they wanna know that like

there's roaches right now

and then they might be like okay

well I'll try it

yeah

yeah yeah

connect I connect

so I mean how

how far does this metaphor

this analogy go is it possible

I mean okay

so am I gonna issue modern medicine

am I gonna no

of course not what

how do people how

how is it how can you take it too far and

and what are the what are the pitfalls there

yeah so certainly um

I prefer 2026 than um

than many many years ago for many reasons

child mortality rates um

lots of other problems

I think what this is about is not about

not about replacing and going back to ancient history

it's about seeing that we don't know everything in

quote unquote

parenting science or family science

and we don't know everything

because we don't even know

sometimes the right questions to ask yeah

so in other words like research questions

the research questions that we ask

sometimes are based on our current

modern assumptions so we might ask like

what is the best um

what is the best plastic toy to produce

for our children to learn how to read

so that's a very modern question

or how much TV should they watch

but some of these other questions

like we don't we don't really even think about asking

because we're just here we're like

we're just noticing like this is how life is

and so then that's the questions that we're asking

so I view it more as like

it's like filling in the gaps

of certain things that we are kind of just blind to

because here we are in modern society trying out our

our way of living and so um yeah

not emulating but filling in the gaps

and the same thing with other cultures too

like what is

what are the strengths that we can draw from

and what are the what are the weaknesses

I had this really interesting example of this process

accidentally um

when uh when my son was young

um he wanted to sleep with me and my wife in our bed

yes and at first

we we didn't let him you know

he had to sleep in his own bed in a different room

and um

and both my wife and I we didn't like that

like we wanted him to be in the bed with us

I'm sorry and so here we were in a situation

manufacturing a situation that we didn't like

and that he didn't like

and I I finally asked the question

why should he be sleeping in a different room

and and then I researched it online

yes

finally understanding the history behind co sleeping

yes and it's complicated

yep and it turns out that it's really complicated

and for the vast

majority of human history

and currently around the world

yep and around the world and even yes

even modern days

children sleep with their parents in their bed yup

now there are drawbacks to that like okay

you know you gotta get intimacy things and

and you've gotta kind of solve certain problems

different ways you're gonna get kicked

you're gonna get kicked in the face a lot somehow

somehow the creatures

in my family managed to take up an inversely

proportionate amount of bed

based on their size so I am 6 foot 5

230 pounds I'm an enormous person

and I get this tiny little sliver of bed

whereas my daughter who's only 4

gets about 3/4 of the bed and the dog

if he decides to jump on the bed gets even more

it's crazy so obviously yes

we have and this is a great example right

so this one is one where

we expect too much independence of our toddlers yeah

and little ones

but too much dependence of our teenagers

so the dependence of the teenagers is

you can't walk to the grocery store

and we really cling on to the teenagers

who can free themselves more

but the toddlers and the babies

the research does not show that them being like

receiving tons of love and affection

makes them dependent later

so this is the tricky part

it's like we have some skewed perspectives about um

yeah what makes people strong yeah

and capable I mean

it by the way it totally stands to reasons

it is perfectly reasonable to

hypothesize that

letting my son sleep in the bed with us

might turn him into somebody who can't sleep

in his own bed later on

that's the fear right okay

well that's only a hypothesis

good point yes

we I need to validate that

and and that's what finally occurred to me is

wait a minute what's the problem with this

and then as I as I started researching it

I discovered that no that's not like

it's actually really abnormal to do the thing that

that that we're fighting not to do

and he like it's okay and you know what

here we are four and a half years later

five years later and he's tremendously independent

and he's tremendous like I mean

he'll sleep in it but sometimes

sometimes he'll sleep in our bed

and sometimes he'll sleep in his own bed

and sometimes you know

we we ended up having to

we ended up putting boundaries around it

because now we have two kids

and both of us want to sleep in the bed

and can they both sleep in the bed at the same time

sometimes sometimes not

it's a it's a big problem

and so alright

well we'll just figure that out as a family

but it turns out that this kind of ancient wisdom

and this and this way that

older societies used to do this thing

ended up really informing this

this ultra modern thing

where we now have the space to let you know

he's got his own room if he wants it and he's

and he's really independent

and nowadays like

like all of those fears

that we had about his ability to thrive outside

you know all those things

none of those came to pass and now

I mean like he just recently Learned how to ride a bike

but which by the way is another one of those things

like

I really insisted that he Learned how to ride a bike

when he first

when we first bought him a bike when he was 4

and he didn't take to it he didn't want it

and by that time

I was starting to come around to the fact that

I'm just not gonna push the rope on this stuff

if he wants to do it he can do it and he ended up

that bike ended up getting given away and never used

because he never got on

we used maybe five times because he never got into it

yeah then just recently

we decided to have him learn how to ride a bike again

he wanted to do that and he um

and he ended up so we

we we bought him a bike and at first he was very

um he was very trepidacious about it and he was

he was we didn't even have uh

training wheels on this bike that we bought him

and so I'm out there teaching him how to how to

how to ride his bike and stuff like that

and he felt like at one point in time

he felt like he'll never be able to do it

and he felt like he was getting ridiculed at school

about the fact that all the other kids could ride bikes

and he couldn't so I was like alright

well tell you what we just have to work at it

so let's go see and literally

we did one 10 minute session and he almost had it

and then we took a break

and then the other 10 minute session

he was riding his bike all by himself

we went from a place

where he felt like he would never get it

in a million years

we spent 20 minutes literally just 20 minutes

and he was off riding a bike by himself

and so how empowering is that for him

yes right

hundred percent and now he'll call me up and be like

hey dad

can I can I can I ride the bike around my neighborhood

with my buddy

uh huh and yeah

sure watch out for this

and watch out for that and watch out for this okay

and then that's what he does now

yes great examples of development

and I also appreciate

I appreciate the co sleeping example as well

one other one that is just like that

so a modern ancient one would be the

the theories behind picky eating

and so picky eating in general

I really believe is more of a modern ancient issue

it's not a parenting issue

and I think if we look at it as well

you know in hunter gather societies

and the ones that still exist today

like the Inuit the Maya

the hadsabs and others like you don't

you don't see picky eating

it's not there so therefore

and when anthropologists go to study it

you know and so

if it were just to be something about

whether parents do

like little airplanes into their mouth

or whether they try

like all of these different things or not

then um

you know we would know it

but um

but but no

it it's

and so basically you know

part of it is about if there is literally one thing

and if

if you have this one healthy option and that's it

then they will eat it that is just the case

even the picky eaters now

but we don't we don't have one healthy option

I mean we have tons of options

not only we have tons of options

but we have tons of options that some of them are also

like highly processed options

and we have other options

so of of course they prefer that

I mean it

it's if you give them literally corn pops and carrots

they're gonna eat the corn pops

yes absolutely

like it has been built and

and the processed food companies

built it to be that way and so yeah

um so it's not like I

and I

I hope that some of this takes away some of the blame

it's not that we can do better with the techniques

but we but understanding that

that's more of the underlying issue

is helpful to see that

it's not just oh

my technique or whether I'm a parent that says

finish your plate or don't finish your plate

it's more complicated than that

why we ended up in this situation

yeah man

I I love that example too

I I

I mean obviously we

I deal with that sometimes and

and yeah I just I

I I love that example yes

no and yeah

go ahead no

I was just gonna say for that one

so then if so what is the possible solution

and you know

if people can wrestle with this or disagree about it

my biggest thing

which is pretty radical would be if you

if you wanna stock your kitchen with basically

only things that you're

okay with the meeting

that's a very radical notion

but it stuff like that does work

if I strand and take my

my child out to a place at the park

and the only thing available is the

whole fruit juice that we have to drink afterwards

or this then all of a sudden he drinks it after all

so yeah but you know

we're all around uh

lots of fast food places and houses and everything

and schools giving them other food

so it's it is hard and this is not easy

it's not like that it's easy

but this is environmental factors

it's environmental factors that we I don't yeah

it's yeah and then

that also means that

that's the only food you get to eat too

because you don't get to have the garbage around and

and I don't know like

why are you doing that to them

and you're not willing to do it for yourself

yeah that's right

how much of it is just modeling

yeah yeah

I I think their bodies my

my kids seem to tolerate garbage food

and turn it into fuel for their bodies

much better than mine does

I I eat garbage food I get fat

my son eats garbage food and he

you know starts riding his bike and running around and

and and doing all this crazy stuff

so I mean I'm sure that

I'm sure that it's not like that's not healthy

but it it's it's just it's it's just as unhealthy

it's actually more unhealthy for me than it is for him

I think yeah

fair enough

now I always love to

to finish off these conversations by asking the guests

um more or less the same question

which is if there is one principle that comes to mind

when you think about raising men

what would that principle be

hmm

I think the main principle that I have is that

because of the higher rates in modern society

of men who are more narcissistically inclined

individual and lonely because of these things

not saying all men are narcissistic

because of course they're not

but because these rates are higher

then we have to pause a moment

when our message to the boys is only about um

success and just kind of like a message of success

strength and movement so this is part of the message

but there's another message which is about um

helpful collaborative aspects that is just as strong

it's about a purpose within society

it's about how we emphasize those things

and the subtle ways that we do it

and also the direct ways that we do it

um

some people don't need the message more of just um

not neither necessarily success

or just sit back and play video games

they need a message of

you matter as a part of this family

you matter as a part of this society

um

your contribution matters

you being you're incredibly um

helpful and valuable on the team

and this is a message that I want to see more

and it's a little bit more collective

as an individualist

but we can still honor the aspects of individualism

and how it helps us to rise up

and build great technology

and success

while recognizing what is missing in men's lives

I think that's a really powerful message I think that

you know the individualistic message

is coming through loud and clear

they're getting that message

a lot in a lot of different ways

and I I think that we fear that

if we don't drive home that message

then they're they're not gonna be successful

they're just gonna stay home playing video games

and but what I hear you saying here is

the reason that there's that dichotomy

and it does exist

they're either gonna go out and be successful or

or they're gonna stay at home playing video games is

that's a danger but the reason that

that danger exists is because

they don't have a feeling like they're

important to the community

and that's what comes first

it it if they're successful

then they'll feel important to the community maybe

and that will drive them to continue to be success

but if they're not if they're just like like

you know they they end up in this other place

they don't actually have an avenue to feel

important to the community

and then that becomes a vicious cycle

and if you just like lay off and say no

you're important to the community

whatever you have to bring to the table

whatever that is

yes you're bringing in the groceries

and you say to your kid carry this yeah

and the different attitude about that

rather than the attitude of hmm

they whether they did carry or they didn't carry it

so they're selfish

they're selfish brats like you carry that whatever yeah

it's like no carry it because because you're needed

like you are needed right now to bring this in the door

and they will generally feel satisfied with that

um the push back

that's what they want they want that connection yes

yeah mmm hmm

yeah they're yes yeah

yeah and

and that's and the chainsaw too

we're we're too reluctant in our culture

because we are cautious

we're cautious about the chainsaw

yeah and of course

we shouldn't be giving chainsaws to toddlers

but if you look at what they want next

they will show you the lawn mower

they'll show you they'll

they want the risk

and they'll show you when they start to be ready

for them yeah

so we can give parameters

but that shows to stay out of trouble

you need a purpose you need a function here

yeah so

you might need to start helping me with the lawn mower

yeah that's so true

yeah I love that

cause they want they want a

they want a purpose and they're ready

so Doctor Samuel

where can people find out more about you

about your work and uh

and and

and you know

if they're intrigued to to reach out for more

yeah absolutely

so um

I'm at fostering growth and cooperation

so that's fostering growth and cooperation dot com and

um I'm really excited about what we're doing

we have a um

among other things

we have an affordable membership for people looking to

like really learn about like the uh

intersection of the ancient wisdom and other um

modern parenting techniques

so that's one of the things that we're working on

right now um

we also are working on family and couples therapy

and thinking about ways

that it could be more constructive

or beneficial um

for people because there's a lot there

in terms of the high conflict situations

or even if you're just looking like okay

how do I decrease the level of conflict in my household

and what are other strategies to use there

so these are exciting things and yeah

love to hear from anyone in those contexts

and who wants to dialogue about those things awesome

and all of Doctor Samuel's work

including his private practice

fostering growth and cooperation

the workshops the research publications

all those things are linked directly in the show notes

so definitely check that out and as always

thank you for listening to Raising Men

you are a great parent