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Tomorrow can be different from today.
Our lives often leave us feeling hopeless—like nothing will ever change. But perspective is everything. When you know where to look, hope can be found in the spaces and places you least expect.
Join Jason Gore (Lead Pastor of Hope Community Church) for a fresh perspective, practical steps, and weekly encouragement that hope really is possible… even in real life.
Maybe I have depression and anxiety.
It was the first time that I ever, uh,
let the thought enter into my head of like,
maybe this is more than just feeling, you know,
worried or feeling sadness.
Welcome to the Hope and Real Life Podcast with Jason Gore.
Our team is passionate
and committed to bringing you more hope in the everyday
real areas of your life.
If this conversation and content is valuable for you,
please do us a favor, like, subscribe, and even share.
You never know how valuable it could be
to share a little bit of hope with someone else.
Let's get the conversation started.
Well, what's going on? Hope in Real Life family.
Thank you all for tuning in with this, for this episode
of Hope in Real Life.
I'm here with, uh, honestly, a good friend of mine.
Ben Foot, uh, comes to us from the Colorado area.
I'll let him give a little bit more about him in a moment,
but I wanna let you know what the
episode is about this week.
Uh, during season one, we had some time
where we talked about spiritual health,
mental health, emotional health.
And then we asked you as, as our listeners, uh,
as our audience, what's a specific
topic that you wanna hear about?
And we heard so much about engaging this idea of anxiety
and how it impacts us, uh, in our world,
which is actually something that, uh,
has impacted me in my life.
So I thought, Hey man, let's give this thing a swing.
And, uh, I know Ben is something, someone who has, uh,
spent some time challenged, uh, in this area Yep.
Of anxiety. And so Ben, uh, a friend,
a pastor, a husband, a dad.
But more than anything, uh, one of the most normal guys
that I've ever met in my life doesn't pretend
to be more than he is.
Uh, but, uh, actually really is a, a great man.
But Ben, tell us a little bit about yourself.
Yeah, man. Thanks for having me. Yeah.
Um, I love you, love hope.
Uh, so I'm pumped to be out here for a couple weeks.
Um, nah, you've, you summed it up. Great. I'm a pastor.
Been a pastor for, I don't know,
over 12, 13 years, something like that.
Uh, married, three little kids,
the whole nine yards, man. Well,
Let's do this. Uh,
why don't we start out, uh,
and I'll ask you this question,
and then you're probably gonna wanna just jump
right into your story a bit.
But what makes you an expert in this idea of anxiety?
It makes you a good guest for other
people to listen in to this week?
Well, I don't think I'm an expert, like at all. Yeah.
I just have, I just have experience.
I have a lot of experience. Yeah.
With, um, anxiety, with depression, with mental health.
Yeah. You know, mood disorders. So I, I'm not no ex expert.
I'm not a psychiatrist or anything. Yeah.
But, um, but I've lived with it for, you know,
a couple decades, so I've just gained some,
some experience around it.
Yeah. And so to, to set the stage, I mean, for those
of you that don't know, Ben, Ben is a guy who, I mean,
he is a pastor, he's a teaching pastor,
and one that gets so, gets up in front
of people on a regular basis and, um, speaks with authority,
but only on the basis of God's word.
Mm-Hmm. Uh, but stands in front of people.
Um, so a lot of people would see someone like that
and think, okay, this guy's got his life together.
He's gotta be able to do that. He can stand confidently
in front of thousands of people.
Surely this isn't a guy that struggles with anxiety.
Just tell us a little bit about what your journey
with anxiety's been like.
Oh, geez, man. Um, yeah, it's really weird
'cause I'm like a, you know, part
of my job is public speaking.
Right. Which is like the t typical, you know, like
that's one of your top three fears for most people.
Right. It's like, that doesn't bother me. Right.
Um, but, you know,
having a conversation in the grocery store line, I'm like,
what the, that bothers me.
Yeah. Right. Um, yeah.
My, I don't, college freshman year
of college was the first time that I ever was like, I don't,
I don't, maybe I have depression and anxiety.
It was the first time that I ever, uh,
let the thought enter into my head of like,
maybe this is more than just feeling, you know, worry
or feeling sadness or whatever.
Um, but I didn't tell anybody that for,
I'm terrible at math,
but for like another decade, man, I didn't tell, you know,
my girlfriend who I then became engaged to and then married
and, you know, like, I didn't tell Ally for years.
I didn't tell anybody. Um,
but I first remember thinking I might have this in college.
And it was another probably 10 years
before I told a soul man. Yeah.
Uh, what do you, what do you think anxiety is?
If we had to put a definition
to it, what would you say it is?
Well, anxiety is, I, I think stems from control.
So it's feeling out of control.
Um, you don't have control of a situation or a scenario.
Um, and
because of that, you don't know how it's gonna impact you.
'cause you don't get to manipulate it
or control it, which then sends you into this spiral of,
you know, worry and fear.
I think that's just anxiety
and anxiety disorder is like, you, you can't fix,
you can't stop yourself from knocking
that first domino over.
That leads to this fatalistic thinking. Right. You know?
Yeah. That end always ends in like,
I'm gonna ruin my entire family's life.
Yeah. Why? Because my dog peed on my couch this morning.
Right. And it's like, that makes no sense.
It's like, yeah, I know. Yeah. I,
I Don't understand. I can't stop
it. Yeah. So,
Yeah, I think, um, because I've wrestled with this a bit,
um, recently in the last few years in my life, anxiety, and,
and again, let me just say this 'cause you said it earlier.
You're not a psychiatrist, you're not a psychologist.
No, I'm not a psychiatrist. I'm not a psychologist.
So, for anyone listening, um, please understand, no one
with a microphone on this podcast is
pretending to be an expert.
You've just got a couple guys that have walked
through this in their everyday lives
and have done their best to cope with it.
And, um, have learned a little bit along the way, uh,
and would willing to do anything we can do
to help others find a little bit
of hope in the midst of what they might be struggling with.
So, um, for me,
and this isn't anything that I found in a book, uh,
or, or anything like that.
I just, sometimes I try to write
to help my thoughts get clear on
what's actually going on in my life.
And one day I wrote down, I feel like I'm stuck in between
this tension of where I am right now
and the absolute worst case scenario.
Mm-Hmm. And I just can't shake it. Mm-Hmm.
Like, I can't shake it and it doesn't make sense
because where I am right now, isn't that bad, you said,
I think my dog pee on the floor.
I mean, that's, it's, it's not, not the end of the world.
Not ideal. Mm-hmm. Right. But not the end of the world.
But, but my family's not ruined.
But for some reason, whatever that thing is at the end,
and I think for different people, it's different things,
but man, I just can't get away from that tension.
Yeah. And so then that tension,
it builds and it builds and it builds.
And the worse, the more that you try
to not think about the worst case scenario, like you said,
man, once the domino start going, it's like, how,
how do I stop this thing? Yeah.
And it sounds crazy. Yeah.
Because, but just because it is a little bit
Right. That's
right. And that's okay.
That's okay to recognize that.
Um, do, for our listeners who, who like to be in control,
uh, and their anxiety is kind of brought on by that, what
what advice would you give that you've experienced?
Maybe you found some success in some areas?
Well, I, dude, I, you have to be honest about it. Yeah.
Um, 'cause I spent so long not telling anybody about this.
Um, and I, I don't,
I don't even know if I can articulate why.
You know, part of it's like, you know, well, I'm a man
and I don't wanna be display weakness.
Um, you know, I've, I just got married, I'm having kids,
like I've gotta have my stuff together.
Right? Yeah. Part of it's that,
but, um, I just didn't tell anyone for forever.
And so you're like suffering, um, alone.
Yeah. Silently, you know, the quiet life
of desperation idea.
So you gotta tell someone, man,
you gotta have someone in your life who it's like, I,
I think that the only truly unconditional love you'll ever
receive in life is from Jesus.
But then you can have some people who are,
can get pretty dang close to unconditional love.
Right. You know, like, you gotta go talk to them about
what you're walking through so
that you're not doing it alone.
Yeah. But dude, I went through like a decade
of self-medicating in like the most unhealthy ways.
Yeah. Um,
Can you talk about that? I mean, do
you, you feel comfortable talking about that?
Not just for our listeners, let 'em know, man, this is like
what normal people
Struggle with. I'll share anything.
You can,
I'd love to hear, man, when you say so can cut
It if you want. Yeah.
Um, yeah. Dude, I, yeah.
To be totally honest, I didn't follow Jesus in college.
Um, and that's when I started realizing, like,
I, I think I have like an issue here.
Um, dude, this is gonna sound weird.
Um, but I, like, I started by abusing NyQuil, which is
so random, you know,
and they're like, also way
better drugs available in college. Right? Yeah. I
Was gonna say, you're on a college
campus, you can do better than
That. And I tried the mother,
but
Were, you were really poor.
Um, yeah.
It started with like, with literally with NyQuil, like
to help me go to sleep.
Yeah. You know? Um,
but it's got like this weird reaction on me
where it keeps me awake for the first little bit,
and then I, then I conk out, you know?
Yeah. Um, and dude, I, it gotta
to the point, I was taking it every night.
I was taking like five or six
of these things every night just to, just to go to sleep.
Yeah. Wake up the next day feeling awful.
Um, I do, I started buying bourbon
and hiding it from, from people, you know,
and, uh, again, to like, go to sleep.
Yeah. But I didn't want, like, my roommates to see like,
dude, you drink like every night, you know?
Um, so I hid it,
and there was one night where, um, this was in my dorm room
and I had a, a bottle of jack, uh,
like t tucked under all my
sweaters, like in a, you know, Dr.
Again, no offense, but you can do better
bourbon than Jack Daniels.
Yeah. Were s stuck here on the bottom shelf, not
In college.
Um, so yeah, I had it hidden, you know,
and I took it out one night and I'm pouring myself a drink,
and I just remember thinking like, dude,
being the guy who's hiding bourbon and, and drinking it
and telling himself it's just to fall asleep.
It's like, I don't know if I'm an alcoholic yet,
but like, that's certainly a step down the road towards it.
Right. You know? And dude, I don't know how
or why I'm so thankful.
I, I was able to like that night, go like,
I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna do this anymore.
I don't, I don't like this part of my life right now. Yeah.
And was able to stop, um, if I became an alcoholic man.
I don't, I wouldn't be here today if that's for sure. Yeah.
But, so I was self-medicating for so long.
That's just two examples. I've tried everything, man. Yeah.
I, um, I, I can relate to that self-medication thing.
We, I remember the first time I realized, um,
man, there's something going on.
And it was kind of a long journey for me
because I, I, I didn't wanna admit
that I struggled with anxiety.
Mm-Hmm. And it had a lot to do
with what, what you were talking about.
Like, you feel like you gotta have things together.
Um, uh, I'm trying to make this as, as quick as I can,
but I was, so, I was serving as, uh, working
as we called the role executive pastor Mm-Hmm.
Here at Hope. And, uh,
and our lead pastor at the time was going on sabbatical.
And so, um, but he had been going through some things
and, you know, talking about,
man, what, when am I gonna retire?
When not? And basically he was going on sabbatical on
December 24th, gonna walk off the stage December 24th,
be out for 10 weeks, maybe come back and preach Easter.
And, uh, we take, uh, we give our staff
'cause it, we do like, you know,
the whole 27 Christmas services across all of our campuses.
So we give our staff, you know, the week off Yeah.
After Christmas. And
so my first day back in the office on a Monday, um, I,
I think five or six people had come by my office
by lunchtime and just said, Hey, um, what are we gonna do
if, uh, our pastor doesn't come back?
Um, what are you gonna do with like, the teaching schedule
after this certain amount of time?
If he Easter comes and maybe he does preach,
but then he wants to take
more time off, you know, what you're gonna do.
I mean, question after question.
And, you know, my answers are
like, I've got all the answers.
Mm-Hmm. Oh, well, listen,
God cares more about this church than we do.
Mm-Hmm. And, uh, so he's got an answer. God's gonna provide.
God always provides, look at
what God's done in the past, he's gonna do it again.
Right. So I have all the right answers, and I believe him.
So then I get home that night
and my son asks me if I wanna go for a jog.
He's 12, 12 years old at the time. I say, sure. Sounds good.
So I put on a long sleeve shirt
and I'm about to walk outta my bedroom,
and I'm like, I think I'm having trouble breathing.
Mm-Hmm. And so I call my wife to the back bedroom
and she comes back there and,
and I'm like, it's probably nothing,
but I feel like I'm having trouble breathing.
She's like, well, it's not like you,
but your, your chest doesn't hurt or anything.
Like, and by the way, if you're just listening, I'm,
I'm like, uh, I, I'm not like,
by most measurements an unhealthy guy, right.
No one's gonna think, no, you're a freaking nature.
It's not like, go that far, like a literal walking GI Joe.
So I'm like, I, I don't,
so I'm like, I don't think this should be right.
She said, well, it's not like your chest
hurts or anything like that, right.
And I'm like, no, no. My chest
doesn't, I think my chest hurts.
No, my chest is definitely tight.
And so I lay down on the bed and kinda wait like 20 minutes.
We, uh, end up calling the ambulance.
They come because my blood pressure was up a bit.
'cause you know, you start getting
worried about what's going on.
And, uh, man, that led me to like, I'm, I've, God,
I must have a heart condition.
Mm-Hmm. Because I'm fine. I'm not worried about anything.
I'm, I'm a follower of God. I'm a family. I'm a man.
I got this thing together. And
so I ended up getting an EK, G.
Everything looks good.
They send me to get a stress test
for the next week, flying colors.
Uh, say, no, no, no, you guys are wrong.
There's something wrong with my heart, with my chest.
I need you guys to figure this out.
So then they bring me back in, do an ultrasound
of the heart, the cardiologist calls, Hey, look,
looked at the, uh, ultrasound,
looks like everything looks good.
I'm like, Hey, you guys probably need to go back to college
or something, because I'm telling you,
I know I don't feel normal.
You need to figure this out. Right.
So like, fine, we'll, we'll go all in.
They send me into the cat scan,
injectable, dye, the whole nine.
My cardiologist calls me back in
and, uh, I'm sitting down, he says, I want you to sit down.
I'm like, oh gosh. This is, this is bad. I knew it.
I knew it. He said, I want you
to sit down 'cause I need you to hear me.
He said, your heart looks as good
as I thought it would have the first time I met you.
You really need to be willing
to consider the stressors that are in your life.
And you might wanna consider,
if this is anxiety driven, um, Twitch,
You might wanna consider going back to school. Yep.
I said, you wanna fight me right now? Right. No.
And, uh, man, at that point, I'm like,
when he said stressors,
I hadn't really told him everything that was going on.
And the first piece that I just mentioned about the lead
Pastor Lane, that was like, that was a thing.
But there were, we got this different podcast different day.
There were like two other major things going on
in our life at the moment.
It's like, okay, so this could be anxiety. Mm-Hmm.
And so I started walking down a road.
Um, but man, it's a real thing
that we don't wanna admit that he'll grab holes.
But all this, that whole story started
with the self-medicating thing.
Um, man, uh, I can,
ima I can remember being in the same place.
Like, Hey, it's been probably a few too many nights
that the kids have gone to bed
and I've just, you know, had a little bourbon and Right.
Uh, man, maybe I gotta get this thing under wraps.
Maybe I need to be honest with myself. Yeah. What's,
Yeah. Just to unwind. Just
to unwind. Right.
Just to unwind. Just until you start telling yourself.
That's right. How has the, your anxiety
or struggle battle with anxiety impacted your life
for better or for worse overall?
Dude, this is gonna sound wild.
I really think it's in, in the long term where I'm at now.
It's not fun. I don't enjoy it.
I still pray constantly for God to take it away.
He constantly says like, no,
but my grace is sufficient for you when you're weak.
I'm strong. Like, yeah. But like,
ultimately in the long run,
I think it's affected my life in a good way.
Which sounds insane.
It does. But I, I actually wrote down something
I was gonna say that sounds similar.
How, how would you say in a positive way,
It makes me constantly reliant on the people
around me, on the God I worship.
Um, it forces me to be honest and vulnerable. Yeah.
Like, dude, when you say at the beginning of this thing,
you're the most normal guy I ever met.
Like, I really find that honoring
because I want to be a pastor who's just a normal dude who's
honest and vulnerable.
Right? Yeah. Yeah. And like, if I didn't struggle
with either of these things, I think it would be easy for me
to play the game of just wearing the mask all the time
and having all the right answers all the time.
And, um, and I, I don't want to be that person.
So like, I've, in the long run, I've watched
Jesus shape me into a different person
because of these things that I struggle
with depression and anxiety.
Like, and what sounds insane is if I could go back in time
to freshman year of college
and magically make it disappear, I I, honest to God,
don't think I, I would.
Yeah. Yeah. I, uh, your answer's better than mine.
But, uh, but, uh, this is the truth for those
that know me well, I, I'm a pretty driven guy.
Um, and there is this thing of like, okay,
you gotta carry yourself a certain way.
And I, I don't try, I really don't try
to carry myself a certain way to look a certain way
to other people as much as, um, like sports psychology,
almost like the positive self speak and that type of thing.
Mm-Hmm. There's just, it is just ingrained in me
for my years in athletics.
That's like, I have to carry myself a certain way
and believe a certain narrative, um,
or else I'm not going to be able to live into what it is
that I need to live into, which on,
on some days is really good.
And then on some days terribly unhealthy. Mm-Hmm.
Um, like at some point, David Goggins does break, right?
Mm-Hmm. Like, I mean, he, and so I don't know
Who that is, but I'm just confidently, I'm like, yeah,
that guy, that guy's strong. Yeah.
He's so, yeah. Um, uh, but yeah, here's what I know.
I believe God had a plan for me
to step into a leadership role for this season
of my life in a time where like,
the whole world is struggling.
It seems like with, uh, anxiety
or something like mental health is, is at an all time high.
Our, um, the world is changing faster than it ever has yet.
Like most har Harvard Business Review article I read last
night says that we're more resistant
to change in the workplace than we've ever been.
Mm-Hmm. But yet the world is changing
faster than it's ever changed.
So what does that lead to? Stress, anxiety.
Everybody's trying to make me change.
I don't wanna change had I not gone through
and if I did not have to, to, I don't wanna say deal with,
'cause that makes it sound like it goes away or regulate.
Right. If I didn't have to be aware of
or struggle with, uh, anxiety on a regular basis,
I don't know that I would be able to be as empathetic as
I need to be
to sit in the leadership role than I sit in Mm-Hmm.
Um, I hope some of our staff doesn't hear this
and think you're empathetic now.
Um, but, but, but the answer is, the answer is yes.
I mean, and it, it depends on the day,
but man, it really does.
It, there's something about recognizing, helping you see,
man, this is what's going on in other people's lives
and it, it helps you slow your role, I guess, a bit.
Mm-Hmm. Yeah. And actually recognize, man, there's things
that people are dealing with that you need to be aware of.
Mm-Hmm. And you need to take into
consideration if you're gonna love them.
Well, Mm-Hmm. So,
But do you and I, we follow, we both follow Jesus.
Right. There's people who don't. Right.
So if you don't, I guess get out there
and be as strong as you can, but like you
and I live in a, in a kingdom
and a worldview that's centered on, um, like servanthood
and humility, and you only lead by knowing
how to follow really well.
Right. It's like really backwards from Yeah.
The typical cultural view of what a good life looks like.
Yeah. So we, we,
we can't lead without understanding our own weaknesses
and being vulnerable about them
and offering them to other people Yeah.
And offering them to Jesus. Yeah.
So, um, we, we've, we lose you
and I lose if we put on the strong face every day.
Yeah. I, I still blows my mind
that most pastors feel like they have to.
Yeah. I'm like, this is literally just like not art. Right.
This is the opposite of our job,
Dude. Yeah, that's
right. And it's the opposite of heart.
It should be easy to act, to actually recognize,
Hey, this is just who I am.
This is what I'm struggling with. Right.
And we didn't really talk about this in the,
in the pre-production meeting for this podcast,
but what you just said might be one
of the most valuable things that our listeners need to hear.
There actually is value in admitting your weakness.
That's just the gospel, man. Yeah.
Like, it's like Literally everything we believe. Yeah.
Yeah. So like, we, we are not enough dude.
Yeah. And if you don't recognize your brokenness,
then you don't recognize you actually need a savior.
Right. And so, man, this, it just drives us all the more
to a place of me like, no, we need Jesus all the more.
Yeah. And to, to, and I'm glad you,
you mentioned, I mean, some people don't follow Jesus.
I know. We have listeners that
wouldn't consider themselves Christians.
Um, man, I'll just tell you, this is why my heart breaks
because you just said it.
Like go ahead, be tough, fight your way through it, man.
It's some point. Something breaks.
Yeah. It's not gonna work. Yeah.
But I don't know what other hope you have. Yeah.
You, so you better pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
'cause I, I, I go learn Vim Hof breathing
or whatever, you know, go take a cold shower
in the morning. Um,
Those things are good.
I'm guarantee you do this,
But I'll say this, it's not enough.
They're not Jesus. But
It's not gonna work, man. Not in the long run.
Let's do this real, real briefly.
Uh, as we get close to wrapping up, are there any things
that you've found, and again, like if you struggle
with anxiety, like don't think two guys on a podcast are
gonna be able to necessarily make it go away.
You've already said it. Like at first, number one,
admit there's a challenge
and probably go talk to a professional.
I mean, I, I didn't start doing that
until later in the game.
Our elders here at Archer, like, they kind of,
it's not like they said you have to,
but like, it kind of made its way onto Riverview
and like strongly recommended and words like that.
And so probably stepped into
that a little bit late in the game.
But man, so admit there's something, talk
to a professional about it for sure.
Yeah. But are there any things that you've kind of
maybe come, come across your radar
that actually ha helps you a bit in the moment,
even if it doesn't make it go away,
but if it's like, man, it's at a level 10,
maybe this brings it down to a level six mm-Hmm.
I'm teasing you about the breathing and the cold showers.
For me, like I, uh, I have a routine,
especially that I do in the morning, um,
and then stuff that I do throughout the day that,
and we talked about this a little before.
It's like, it doesn't make my anxiety disappear. Right.
But I have a better shot at battling it
that day if I keep some
of these parts of my routine together.
Yeah. And then like, on a day that I, that I'm, I don't
because I was lazy or I didn't,
because, you know, my schedule got blown up or whatever.
Um, I'm just set up for less success.
So for me, um, I, I wake up, try to get up
before my kids are up, um, just to get some time,
you know, they're 10, eight and five.
So to get some time
where I can think without answering a question,
like constantly, um, I, you know, for me, I read scripture,
I do meditative prayer.
This is gonna sound like common sense to some people.
It's like breakfast is non-negotiable. Yeah.
Like, dude, my day gets weird if I don't eat
something in the morning.
Yeah. So like little stuff like that,
I do some breathing techniques when stuff gets really, um,
when I start to feel it in, in my chest and stuff.
Yeah. I have these little tools that I've picked up.
It's just that I think that a lot
of those podcasts out there, or,
or you know, like armchair experts will tell you like,
oh man, this is how you make it go away.
Right. And it's like, well, that, I don't know.
It hasn't gone away for me. Yeah.
But I, I can set myself up to,
to battle it a little bit better.
Yeah. So having a routine.
Um, and then there's some stuff I've
read, dude, John Mark Comer.
Do, are you familiar with it? Yeah.
Um, he's written some great stuff.
Ruthless Elimination A Hurry was great for me personally.
Garden City, which is a book about Sabbath,
which sounds all like spiritually like Ooh Sabbath.
Right. But, um,
he breaks it down in a way that's understandable.
And yeah. So I've had some resources like that,
but I just, I feel like I want to be clear
with people listening.
Like I'm not saying it makes it go away. Yeah.
Um, it just, it kind of helps me face it that day. Yeah.
And, and, and I'm gonna give a couple ideas as well,
or a couple, you know, things that I've experienced as well.
But I, I do, I I want to keep elevating that.
It's not that it makes it go away.
And in fact, for me, my, that initial quest,
once I realized, okay, maybe it is anxiety,
the way my mind works, it's like, okay, so I'm going
to make it go away. Yeah.
Conquer it. Yeah. Well, guess what makes it worse?
Mm-Hmm. Feeling like you still have something to fix.
Mm-Hmm. And that you're not good enough to get it fixed.
It's like, man, you're, it's like we're hurting
ourselves trying to help ourselves.
Mm-Hmm. Thinking that we're gonna make this thing go away.
There have been some things that have helped.
Um, e exercise for me helps if I go on, you know,
going on a walk, I'm brisk walk a little bit.
Mm-Hmm. Start breathing deeply on that. That helps. Um,
So the morning walk, man, that's another thing. Yeah.
Yeah. Um, getting some sunshine, but,
but yeah, there's literally, I'm gonna get the stats wrong
here, but it, um, it, it's something that, that those
that average around a hundred
and 120 to 150 minutes of exercise a week, uh,
are more likely to see, um, reduced levels of anxiety.
Doesn't mean it's gonna go away, like you said,
but it's kind of that like, and if it's at a level 10,
it maybe could take it down to a seven
or 57 can take it down to a five.
Um, mindfulness is another one.
That's this idea of being present, like right in the moment.
And, uh, I mentioned earlier that for me, anxiety is kind
of like the tension between what's going on right now, like,
where the situation really is
and the absolute worst case scenario.
Right. And so, uh,
mindfulness is like just bringing yourself the, the, uh,
to be completely focused on the present so you see
where things are and getting your mind off of
how bad things could really be.
I'm curious about, so like what do you,
what do you do? How do you do that?
Yeah. So oftentimes, uh, for me, I just try
to get focused on what it is that I'm doing.
And I try to tell myself, Hey, this is
where the situation is, um, where your mind is going to,
you know, you mentioned at the beginning, um,
the dog pee on the floor.
I'm gonna ruin my family couch. It was the couch. Sorry.
The couch. The couch. Which is worse, right? It is worse.
It's way worse. It's way worse.
But it's not so bad
that your family's gonna be ruined forever.
No. And so it's mindfulness. Hey, the dog peed on the couch.
I'm gonna clean up the pee off the couch. Right.
My family's not ruined forever.
You know, I, I've talked to the therapist who said, so
what if you tell yourself best case scenario
instead of worst case scenario?
Mm-Hmm. I'm like, um, what if that's a really good idea?
But I can't think of a scenario
better than way it is right now.
Mm-Hmm. So that makes it, it really difficult to do.
So for me, it's just taking a look at
the situation and dealing with just
Tackle what's In front of you. And
a lot of times it's dealing with what you can Mm-Hmm.
Impacting what you can and trying to let the things that
outside of your control
That's good. Just be outside
Of your control. Not always
easy. And then you mentioned breathing exercises,
you know, so I don't need to to get into that.
Dude. Another, I don't know how much time we have.
Are we like, out of time? No,
You're good. What's up?
What do you got?
Um, I was just gonna say, another big thing I do, Wade
Says, keep going. He's in charge.
Okay. That would be
Another big thing is like, I'm a big, uh, supporter
of being a student of your culture.
Like, so don't be passively shaped
by the place in, in time that you live in.
Like you should be paying attention to it. Yeah.
Um, and that's also helped me,
'cause like, dude, we live in a, in America in 2023, right.
And so we live in a consumerist culture,
which feeds off dissatisfaction.
You know, the only way to advertise is to dissatisfy you.
Right. And then we live in a news media junket
that's f fueled by fear, you know?
Right. It's like if you, for the people
who actually do watch like their hour of local news anymore,
it's dude, the world's ending.
The world's ending. The world's ending. It's
A recipe for anxiety, stress. Yeah.
They even have like, some of these morning shows
or news shows will have like, you know, five minutes called,
like it wasn't an all bad.
Right. You know, and it's like, you know,
this old lady adopted cats for 20 years and you know,
or some like, you know, hopeful story Yeah.
Because the rest of it is just like the worst,
the worst case scenario is happening like on your
street, in your neighborhood.
Yeah. And so, and then not only that,
but we've got, like Wade brought it up earlier,
but we've got these phones in our pockets
that we're addicted to.
So it's not even like, yeah, I only engage with advertising
or news when I watch TV
or when I'm driving and I see a billboard.
It's like, dude, no, you engage with it 24 7. Yeah.
And we wonder why like, mental health
just went right, or I guess it would be down.
Right. But we wonder why It was like, well, well, dude,
we're being constantly inundated with a message of fear
and dissatisfaction. Yeah.
Yeah. I think, and I think you hit
the nail on the head at the end.
I'm surprised we're just not talking about the end,
but the overstimulation Mm-Hmm.
Uh, that we've, because that is another thing,
like if you just reduce the number of inputs,
it's a little bit easier.
Mm-Hmm. Um, to not feel like things are
stacking or stacking or stacking or
Stacking. And it's wild.
'cause it's, it's like
that's might sound like, you know,
oh wow, that's so profound.
They're like, Jesus has been saying that
for 2000 years. Right?
Yeah. Yeah. That's Exactly, yeah.
Tomorrow's got enough trouble of its own
just focus on the day.
Yeah. Like, that's from Christ. Yeah. Wow.
And we've got people making, you know,
entire podcasts about it. Like they came up with it
Could have just started there. Could
have started, started there and there.
Hey, uh, Ben, thanks so much for being on this episode.
Thanks. I know you're gonna be in another episode, uh,
this season where we actually talk about deconstruction,
which you mentioned a little bit about being aware
of what's going on around you and your culture.
Certainly something that's going on.
Um, hey, uh, for those of you, for our listeners,
if this topic of anxiety is something that's meaningful
to you, of course, share this content
with others who you think need it.
But if you've got other topics in this area
that you'd like us to engage into,
or different areas of the conversation,
please leave us a comment.
Let us know. Communicate with us. We'd love to respond.
We'd love to make sure that we're working it in.
Uh, as we wrap up, Ben, I normally try
to ask our guests just one or two questions,
and so I'll do one since you're gonna be on another episode.
Uh, but what are you most hope, most hopeful
for in your life right now?
Uh, to answer it quickly,
I changed up the way I do ministry, so I'm not,
I I stepped off the full-time staff at the
church that I worked at for Okay.
For 12 years. Um, just contracted to teach there.
Um, and I've been teaching at different churches all
throughout the country, uh,
and getting to see what like God's doing in the big picture,
like capital C Church in America, as opposed
to just like in my local church
that I worked at for 12 years.
And the combination of like getting to see what he's up
to on a large scale, um, combined with the,
uh, the ability I've had in the last few months to like,
connect with my family Yeah.
In a, in a deeper cooler way, uh, has been rad. Man.
I don't know if I'll do, I'll be able to do this forever,
but if I even did it for just a year,
like it, it's been fantastic. So
That's awesome. Well,
thanks for sharing that with us.
You know, I wasn't planning on doing this.
I, I do feel compelled if anything
that you heard in this podcast kind of connected
with you specifically around this area of, man,
it being okay to recognize my weakness
because it's in my weakness where a God
that I don't even know would be willing to meet me.
And you talked about Jesus and what he's done.
Like if that's like, Hey, I just wanna know more about that,
leave a comment as well.
Reach out to us, someone from our team would love
to follow up with you.
Um, if it didn't, just listen to the next episode,
but if it did, we want to be here for you
and do everything that we can do
to bring you hope in the everyday moments of your life.
Look forward to seeing you next episode.
Thanks for tuning into this episode
of The Hope in Real Life podcast.
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