The Meat Mafia Podcast

Veronica Max started UltraPersonal Healthcare after experiencing what it meant to have really high quality, thoughtful care for herself. After years of studying and practicing in the modern medical system, Veronica has taken an entirely new approach to healthcare that boldly empowers the individual to take their health under their own control. In our conversation with Veronica, we discuss:

- Emotional healing
- Importance of light
- The Modern Medical system
- A better health care model
- Home births & prenatal nutrition
- Getting off birth control
- Hormonal crisis in men & women
- Keto, carnivore, paleo - which is better for women?

And much, much more!

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Creators and Guests

Host
Brett Ender 🥩⚡️
The food system is corrupt and trying to poison us... I will teach you how to fight back. Co-Host of @meatmafiamedia 🥩
Host
Harry Gray 🥩⚡️
Leading the Red Meat Renaissance 🥩 ⚡️| Co-Host of @meatmafiamedia

What is The Meat Mafia Podcast?

Welcome to The Meat Mafia Podcast, where hosts Brett and Harry challenge the status quo of modern health. We cut through the noise of broken food systems, weak leadership, and cultural confusion to uncover timeless truths about strength, nutrition, and living boldly. From regenerative farming to metabolic health, entrepreneurship to personal freedom, we bring you conversations that equip you to take back control of your body, your family, and your future. Our mission is simple: help you get strong, think independently, and lead a life that stands apart in a culture that’s lost its way.

Speaker 1:

Hold on. Alright. There we go.

Speaker 2:

Beautiful. Will we get the better of the two Maxes today?

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

I hey. I think you are getting the better of the two Maxes.

Speaker 1:

I I

Speaker 3:

would more enjoyable to be around. Much sweeter, nicer. I You

Speaker 2:

think our listeners will agree on that after that.

Speaker 1:

Well Tucker was on twice. I don't think I told you this, but actually no, I think I did. He was like the first big account that we looked up to because we'd read all of his books when we were younger. He was the first big account followed us on Twitter. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Because he was really getting into the regenerative agriculture We were talking a lot about that. We met up with him in Dripping Springs, got to meet you. We had him back on for part two, and now you're here as well.

Speaker 3:

Well, awesome. That's full circle. Yeah. And you're coming over to our house for dinner and we'll feed you this time.

Speaker 1:

Lot of raw milk, lot of raw milk ice

Speaker 2:

cream. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Raw milk, beef grown on our property. Yeah. Or raised I should say.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we're so excited for this conversation. And I was telling you before you hit record, we love having on medical professionals that have a science background that also have an interest in preventative care. And so you got to give us an overview when we met for coffee on everything that you're doing with UltraPersonal Healthcare. Is UltraPersonal Healthcare?

Speaker 3:

That's right.

Speaker 1:

And you have such unique background where you're a nurse practitioner by trade, but you've always been interested in health and wellness, the food you put into your body, preventative medicine. So I think as a starting point for our listeners, to learn a little bit more about your backstory, what got you into nursing, when did the light bulb moment go off of like food really is medicine, I think that would a great Awesome. Starting

Speaker 3:

Sure, well I grew up in Tennessee, not too far from, really, who's from New Jersey? I'm from Jersey. Virginia, Jersey,

Speaker 1:

okay.

Speaker 3:

A southerner. Yeah. On the East Coast ish. Yeah. And, you know, so I was an athlete my entire life, basketball player, ran track, played division one basketball, and then CrossFit after that, because I needed to find some sort of Definitely.

Speaker 3:

Source of competition.

Speaker 2:

Post athlete, wall.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I was like, what do I do with myself? And so I've just always had an interest in health optimization and how to optimize my performance. So then that just kind of naturally, I mean, well first I had some encounters with the medical system as a kid. You know, first I had acne, and I remember talking to the dermatologist when I was a teenager and he's like, Oh no, you know, I was asking about food and chocolate and sugar and you know, did that contribute to the issue? And he's like, No, food has nothing to do with it.

Speaker 3:

Here's a birth control pill, you know, at 16 years old, And even at 16, knew that just didn't make any sense to me, right? I also had geographic tongues, so like my taste buds would fall off and you know, they didn't have any answer for that. I was like, Surely there's something to do with my GI tract, I'm eating. Right. So anything that they ever prescribed, right, just made my skin dry or peel or cracked and made it worse and, you know, didn't solve the issue.

Speaker 3:

And so that's something I kind of tweaked on my own. I had a track coach that was like, Hey, maybe, maybe don't drink sodas anymore. Because that was still something we did as I don't think any kids do that now. They?

Speaker 1:

Drink sodas?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Like and Doctor. Coke My and

Speaker 2:

family, like, I feel like I never had soda around, but I feel like it's kind of trending in the direction of are drinking less and less of it. Right.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Don't see it anymore. Maybe that's just the people that I, you know, hang out with, but that was definitely in the fridge growing up, you know? And so I got rid of that stuff and I really noticed a difference, you know, and then fast forward to college, right, and I had chronic ankle injuries and, you know, basketball spraining my ankles. They want to do surgery and it's like, no, there's got to be I don't want to I don't want to have surgery.

Speaker 3:

There's got to some other options here and discovered prolotherapy, which a lot of people know about now, or that was kind of like the precursor for PRP and had that done and it worked wonderfully. Didn't sprain my ankle again, you know, my senior year of college. And then from there, you know, so I just always kind of thought outside of the box and didn't accept the answer of, you know, the medical provider in front of me who likes to present themselves as, hey, I'm the authority and I'm the expert, and I know better than you about your body. And so that's kind of from there. I was I studied biochemistry in undergrad, thought I wanted to be a doctor, thought maybe I wanted to be a pharmacist.

Speaker 3:

I was like, no, I don't want to count pills. I want to I like to be around and interact with people. And so then I and then I decided also I don't want to go to medical school. I want to be a mom. You know, have four kids now.

Speaker 3:

And I don't know that I want to invest that type of time, you know, in the education for that. So I decided I want to be a nurse. Actually I decided I wanted to be a nurse practitioner from the beginning. My mom was a nurse, so I knew about that role. And, and then I got a second degree master's in nursing and became a nurse practitioner.

Speaker 3:

Here we are. Wow. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

What were some

Speaker 3:

of the

Speaker 2:

things that you saw within the medical system through the nursing experience that made you think, wow, this like isn't the right model for healthcare?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, the first thing that I saw and I forgot, in college I actually had this I was misdiagnosed with a cardiac issue. Made the mistake on a you know how they do physicals at the beginning of Yes. The I made the mistake of saying answering yes to having heart palpitations because occasionally I would have heart palpitations. And anyways, long story short, they sent me a cardiologist for clearance.

Speaker 3:

He misdiagnosed me, so I was taken out. I couldn't play basketball. Right. He wanted to put a pace maker in. I was 21 or 20 I think I'm 20 or 21 years old, right?

Speaker 3:

My parents knew better. They took me to my mom looked up like the expert on long QT syndrome in the country took me to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester and I went through a battery of tests there with the expert in the country. And I think he was like the cardiologist for the pistons or something like that. And there's nothing wrong with your heart. You have some arrhythmia that occasionally happens, but it's normal.

Speaker 3:

But anyway, I interacted with I saw how they do things at Mayo Clinic. I was like, wow, this is great. They're on time for everything. I had a consultation with, like I said, this expert, a leading expert in the country, and he sat down with my dad and I and had a PowerPoint presentation. It was like an hour conversation, you know, going outlining all the tests that I had done and his diagnosis and, you know, the whole thing.

Speaker 3:

I was like, wow, I've never experienced anything like this. So I kind of had a window of what health care could be like. And that's not to say that the Mayo Clinic gets everything right. I don't think that they do. But when we're talking about kind of the modern medical paradigm, I think they do a lot of things, well.

Speaker 1:

So just because you checked yes to the heart palpitations, it triggered this whole process? Yes,

Speaker 3:

yes. And I still to this day occasionally have palpitations after working out or something, and we don't know what it is, but it's benign.

Speaker 1:

It's benign, yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and I haven't dropped dead yet. But I could have had a pacemaker in my heart that would have needed to be replaced every ten years or so.

Speaker 1:

So you had mentioned, so you played division one basketball. One of the things that Harry and I have noticed is a lot of college athletes, they kind of justify like the calories in calories out approach just because they're they think they're burning so many calories.

Speaker 3:

Right.

Speaker 1:

Are you were you the type of athlete that was similar to that? Or were you like pretty dialed in and in tune with your nutrition at a young age?

Speaker 3:

It's funny. I wouldn't say that I was in tune with it from a young age. I mean, my parents always, you know, my mom made home cooked meals and, you know, we had local food around the house, but we also had a lot of sugar. Like we had sodas, like I said, I remember, you know, those, I still to this day love like the Reese's pumpkins and the, you know, Oh, around the so good. So I would have, you know, they come in trays, right?

Speaker 3:

Like I remember I would eat an entire tray of them in one sitting.

Speaker 1:

Because you can't stop eating them.

Speaker 3:

Well, because they're delicious. And also, you know, I was, I've never really struggled with weight or anything like that. I mean, I was always very, very active. And so, yeah, it was just something people didn't really talk about nutrition, and performance the way that they do. They do now other than the track coach.

Speaker 3:

I said that, you know, tipped me off to, Hey, sodas have a lot of sugar. You might try not doing those and see how you feel. And then in college, you know, I played around with being vegan for a little bit. I read the China study.

Speaker 2:

We might need to cut this part.

Speaker 3:

Was like, it was like two months that I feel like I ate mostly cereal or something, you know, it was terrible. You know, so I wouldn't say that I was dialed in in college and I think my body, I felt that, you know, I was chronically inflamed. If you look at pictures of me, you know, Tucker calls it, he looks at an old driver's license and he's like, Oh, that's carby fat face, you know? Like I looked old, you know, older than I do now in some ways because I had like, you know, that puffy carb And I remember, you know, like by the end of my senior year, was hard. Like it, it hurt when I woke up in the morning, like my Achilles hurt.

Speaker 3:

They were thick and inflamed. I don't, I mean, I haven't felt like that in years.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

You know, and I attribute it to, Oh, we just work out so much.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 3:

You know, but I didn't feel like that when I was training CrossFit and I arguably trained more than I did in college. Yeah. You know? So no, I didn't have it dialed in then. I think when I really got tipped off to it was, you know, I did got into the CrossFit thing.

Speaker 3:

I was working out at Pure Austin. I don't think it's, I don't think Pure's around anymore.

Speaker 2:

There's a yoga studio called Pure, I don't know.

Speaker 3:

Is Yeah, that what you're no, talking it was on the corner of like 5th And Lamar. Okay. So it was, you know, it was a popular gym back in the day. Yeah. Apparently I'm an old person now.

Speaker 3:

And anyways, one guy came in one day and he was just like doing all these kipping pull ups. I'm like, what the hell are you doing? And then I just noticed that he was losing weight and getting fitter. I like, what are you, what are you even doing? And so it was CrossFit.

Speaker 3:

So I started doing CrossFit and then was introduced to paleo and, you know, the whole thing from there. And then I was really, you know, went down that rabbit hole.

Speaker 2:

Where should the conversation start around diet for most people? Because I feel like there's so much information out there and so many people struggle to understand what they should be fueling their body with, which is a crazy concept to me. It's like, don't even know what to eat.

Speaker 3:

Well, then they think it's like, oh, there's a heart healthy diet and then there's a gut healthy diet and then there's a diet that's great for your skin as if there's different ideal diets.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 3:

I don't think that's the case. I think the best place to look is how we evolved, you know, as a species, you know, and I think that's obviously we're omnivores, but I think we primarily ate meat, right? And, you know, would eat more tuberous things and vegetables when we didn't have access to meat. Then maybe, like the Hadza I know, they really love honey. I think that that's a good place to look.

Speaker 3:

And then primarily so meat and obviously quality, as you guys know, is super important, right? Local, free range, regenerative ideally,

Speaker 2:

fish. From your backyard.

Speaker 3:

MS. If you can do that, like and Tucker and I have taken that to an extreme, and we can talk about that in a bit. But we recognized a few years ago that we can't be separate from nature and be healthy. That message came really from us doing a lot of emotional work and being able to get in touch with, you know, I would say my higher self or, you know, whatever you want to call that, you know, you could call it God, you know, there's any depending on what kind of religious or spiritual background you come from. And when I was able to finally get in touch with myself, I just heard that my intuition or intuition, you call it intuition, that, hey, you like coming back to, you know, to the suburbs where we were living at the time just didn't feel good.

Speaker 3:

And we just had a yearning for, I just need to be in nature. And then I've learned things subsequently like, Oh, this makes sense, you know, as far as light is concerned. And, you know, we can talk about that too, but really knowing where our food comes from and how it was raised and then being involved with, you know, ending its life, which is heavy for me to do that, but I think it's really, really important. And not everybody necessarily doesn't mean you have to grow your own food, but at least be in touch with the people in your community that is that are doing that and buy from them when possible.

Speaker 1:

But

Speaker 3:

back to an ideal diet, best place to start: meat, fish and seafood is really, really important because you guys know that's probably that's the only source of DHA, which is critical for your brain and eyes and for your mitochondria actually to function well. And then, you know, local fruit and vegetables and seasonal food. Yeah, it's simple. So I was gonna say very separate. Staying away from the processed junk, you know, that you don't know what's in it or where it came from or, you know.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. It's crazy how simple the approach is that you just laid out and how well it works. Yet when you look at the statistics, it's like seven out of ten Americans are overweight or obese. Just wild how we actually got here.

Speaker 3:

Well, and it's not And here's the thing, though, it's not all food. You know, it's it's definitely our modern lifestyle and definitely food is a part of it. But I know I've worked with a lot of people, you know, that we've gotten their diet cleaned up and they've gone low carb or keto, and they're eating good quality and they're still not losing weight. And it's like, oh, well, you're still living inside. You're not getting outside in the sunlight.

Speaker 3:

You've got light on after dark, right? Which you will. I don't know if you guys have seen those studies. We actually will make insulin and glucose just by exposure through blue light, which is basically what we're in front of here.

Speaker 1:

You

Speaker 3:

know, if you if you Google articles for A LAN and diabetes or obesity, and A LAN is just artificial light at night.

Speaker 1:

We should have brought the blue light blockers.

Speaker 3:

Or a red light. Put a red light in and kind of like balance that out, you know? Yeah. But if you just get out in nature, that solves pretty much all of those problems.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Veronica, why do you think so many women in particular have an aversion to animal products and saturated fat?

Speaker 3:

That's a good question. I mean, think it's mostly because they've been told their entire lives, right, that saturated fat's bad for you, it'll make you fat, it'll cause heart disease, that it causes cancer. Yeah, I mean, I think that's kind of, you know, when I think back of how I grew up, you know, there was a time where I, you know, probably in that vegan stint where I avoided, thought saturated fat was bad too. And then I did a little bit more research and also like, I don't really feel great, you know? But of course, as you guys know, saturated fat and cholesterol are essential for your sex hormones and it's a component of every cell membrane.

Speaker 3:

You really can't be healthy and avoid those things.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, we've had a number of like carnivore animal based female guests, and almost all of them actually were vegan for an extended period of time. We've probably had like five female guests told that tell us that when they went vegan, they literally lost their period for like months or years at a time. Yeah. And they just accepted that as normal. It's so wild.

Speaker 3:

Well, mean, it's just like we accept, right? You've had gut issues. We accept like bloating and gas and diarrhea or constant not having a bowel movement for days as normal.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 3:

That's not normal.

Speaker 1:

It's not normal.

Speaker 3:

You know, these are all, you know, and this is what I tell patients. Symptoms are messages from the body. You know, the body's, your body is innately wise. You know, I think I mentioned the other day to you guys that we have everything that we need inside of us to heal. We just have to get in touch with that and listen, you know, and these symptoms that often get diagnosed with these different medical diagnoses, they're just symptoms.

Speaker 3:

They're messages from the body. The body's trying to communicate with us and it's our job to listen, you know? And those messages are going to get louder and louder and louder until, you know, sometimes they smack you upside the face.

Speaker 2:

Does it surprise you? You guys were talking about hormones. Does it surprise you to see how many people are struggling with hormones, whether it's guys with lower testosterone levels through blood work or women just struggling to get pregnant? And I mean, that that's with both sexes with that problem, but it's like, it seems like there's a big issue at hand and it is getting attention, but I feel like there's clearly more attention that should be drawn towards that conversation.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean, I think that's multifactorial. I am seeing it. You know, I work with a lot of women that are, you know, in their thirties or late twenties or, know, usually maybe in their early forties too, right, that are trying to get pregnant, you know, and diet's a part of that, light environments a part that. These screens, you know, the phones that, you know, especially that, gosh, I'm just about to say this younger generation, but, you know, cell phones were introduced when I was in high school, at least the more compact versions. And so, but everybody's on their phone and late at night and you better believe that impacts your everything, every body system, and it absolutely impacts your sex hormones.

Speaker 3:

So does not getting outside first thing in the morning so that your circadian rhythm can be, you know, Oh, it's a new day. It's time to start, you know, making these different steroid sex hormones. So there's, you know, and then guys, right, putting this in their back pocket or putting it on their, you know, their cross.

Speaker 1:

Just frying their balls unfortunately.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, or sitting in their computer right there on their lap, know? And it's plugged into the, you know, when it's plugged in, we could talk about EMFs too. It's like a few years ago, I thought that was like wackadoodle. But when I started doing more research, there's actually a lot of evidence out there about that. And it's, you know, it's just not widely known.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

So, and it's, you know, it's sad. And then beyond just the infertility thing, it's, you know, I was talking to Chris Williamson the other day. There's all these men that aren't even interested in having a relationship with women. And what's that about?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's insane. I think he has he had some posts that went crazy viral that I think like millennial men in particular are like having the least amount of sex out of any generation ever. There's like zero sex drive

Speaker 3:

at Right, right. Because their testosterone is, you know, through the floor. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

Thinking would be that it's like it's two things, like the actual biological process of not having enough testosterone, but also our attention is now being drawn into like the digital world where we're so distracted with things that just are like on Instagram or, you know, pornography, there's things that just distract us away from actually creating real life intimacy, is obviously like, I feel like getting lost in today's culture.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, mean I think, you know, people are very traumatized and this is a great distraction. Like I said, really in order to be healthy, the first thing that you have to do is get in touch with yourself, you know, and I can say, you know, a few years ago, like there's a reason why I was a college athlete and then an entrepreneur is because I was looking to fill a void within me through all these external accolades, you know, whether it was, you know, winning races or CrossFit competitions or, you know, then making money. Right. But that ultimately didn't make me happy. Right.

Speaker 3:

And so then it came to like, okay, doing the emotional work to then actually fill that void from the inside out, so to speak, and get in touch with myself. Then, oh, well, you know, my intuition will lead me in the right direction. Totally. You know, even before that, was a lot of hints of that, you know, whether it talking about the home births and, you know, having my babies at home, I knew working in a hospital, I mean, everything, all the mistakes that happen, how dirty it is, all the, you know, what we call nosocomial infections where, you know, infections that you get in the hospital, that was the last place I wanted to be as a patient, let alone for something like pregnancy, which I wouldn't consider a, you know, a medical illness or a disease process. It's a very healthy thing, right?

Speaker 3:

So I was just afraid to be a, and I still am afraid to be a patient in the mainstream medical system. I would avoid that at all costs.

Speaker 1:

Totally. When you were describing home births before we sat down, it actually reminded me the way you were describing mothers' fears of like going out on their own to have their home birth. It wasn't super dissimilar for how I felt when I was trying to heal my UC holistically because I had a traditional GI. He was a great guy but wasn't really talking to me about diet and lifestyle. And I remember when I was thinking about going carnivore and I had this possibility of maybe going off my meds, it made me really nervous because I was just taught your doctor tells you what to do and you just blanket follow instructions.

Speaker 1:

I think that's probably the same, even probably even more extreme with home birthing in general, you're like women are so conditioned to being like, if I have a baby, I need to go into the hospital. There's all these things that can happen if I do it on my own. But as a mom that's home birth for children, you have a great perspective on that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. No, I I didn't even know that I was I grew up my mom was a nurse, right? I became a nurse. It was when I was a nurse that I first found out about home birth. I didn't know that was a thing.

Speaker 3:

I didn't know it was a possibility open to me, know, because my mom was always very vocal about, Oh yeah, had a you were so happy you were breeched because that meant I got to have a C section and, you know, nothing would happen to my vagina. Okay, well.

Speaker 2:

TMI, mom.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. I'm just like, really? You wanted to have a C section so I didn't mess up your vagina. Okay. Anyway, that's another story.

Speaker 3:

So yeah, so when I realized that was an option, I'm like, Oh, that's really interesting. And then I watched The Business of Being Born, which, you know, I don't know that you guys would have watched that at this point in your lives.

Speaker 2:

No, no.

Speaker 3:

I watched that and I was like, Oh, this just makes so much sense, you know? But yeah, no, having a baby, the idea was just never in my family and in my, you know, the social circles that I grew up in, it was never an option. It was never, it was seen as a, some sort of disease process. Something happened to you and you needed help with, right? But in the midwifery model of care, it's so beautiful.

Speaker 3:

You know, my midwife really, and I didn't even really know what was happening when, you know, when I had my first one, but really just reinforce the idea that, hey, your body is divine. You have every, all of the knowledge, all of everything that you need within you to have this baby. We just need to get out of the way. And you know, it's funny during a home birth, you know, the midwives, you know, like I, one of the things I liked about it was I had all the lights off. I had candlelight, you know, just even turning off bright lights.

Speaker 3:

Bright lights are kind of irritating, right? If you're in pain and just having the dim light really was beautiful. Then, you know, the midwives kind of just dissolve into the background. It's not about them. They're they, and you know what, they would just make suggestions at times or they would, or they would reinforce what I was doing like, Oh, Veronica, that's so, that's so brilliant that you moved on your side.

Speaker 3:

I think that will really help open up your, you know, birth canal or whatever it was they were saying, right? That just made me feel confident in what I was naturally doing, you know, which is the opposite of a typical relationship with a medical provider or a healthcare provider. And I think, you know, now that we're talking about it, they actually taught me a lot about how to be a better health care provider and even just the process of going through that and digging into the depths of myself. It's just really it's very difficult to explain, but it's a profound experience where you're just as vulnerable as you could ever be. Right.

Speaker 3:

Because it's it is painful, you know, I did it four times. So obviously, you know, it's not something that's so bad that I wouldn't do it. But it is, you know, you are in a very vulnerable spot and then to have to be supported by other women. I think that was really important for me too, because, you know, I have a little bit of, there's some strain in the relationship with my mom and there has been, so to be supported by other women in a very nurturing maternal way during those births was very healing for me, you know? So I want people to know that that exists and that's out there, right?

Speaker 3:

And that, you know, the medical, you know, there are, there are different options within the healthcare realm,

Speaker 1:

right? Yeah.

Speaker 3:

It's not just, it doesn't have to be that paternalistic approach of I'm the expert and I know better than you about your body, So

Speaker 2:

what was your comfort level from the first home birth to the second one? Because I imagine that first time you developed more confidence and intuition with how your body worked.

Speaker 3:

Totally. It was and it's funny because I went into the first home birth. First off, you know, Tucker could probably tell you his whole side of the story because I was

Speaker 2:

like We need to hear that.

Speaker 3:

Because I was just running. Mean, was doing was my Bishop, I was doing CrossFit. It was the summertime. He was born July 30. I was working out like on Riverside in a garage gym.

Speaker 3:

It was 100 and something degrees, lift like beating the guys, because that was my thing. I had to compete and like beat the dudes or else like at like eight months pregnant, you know? And so I actually went into that, so I was just running around. Was just talk about being dissociated and not being fully integrated as a, you know, human at that But anyway, I went into that birth like a crossband competition. You know, I thought, Oh, this is a like So you

Speaker 1:

have to win everything.

Speaker 3:

Right? I have to win. It's a hard thing. Yeah. It's painful, but I just push through it.

Speaker 3:

Right? And that didn't really work out. So that's a funny thing, you know, it's like a birth will teach you how to surrender. And I can't say that I fully learned, you know, during that first birth, I mean, I remember we were on Rainey Street, we had an apartment, you know, so we were looking out over the city when Bishop was born at like 04:46 in the morning, but you know, it was painful, you know? And had I had been in a hospital and had access to meds, definitely would have said, Oh yeah, put But in that epidural or give me I didn't have access to that, you know?

Speaker 3:

And so, you know, it just solidified my choice, which I had made the choice to be there. You know, I was screaming at one point and the other midwife was like, Veronica, could you perhaps, you know, concentrate that energy downward and envision it toward an opening your, you know, your cervix? And I was like, okay. You're telling me to be quiet. Okay.

Speaker 3:

That's a great idea. But no, I just thought that I could push the baby out. Right? Which you do push the baby out. But the thing that I didn't understand is that your body will do that on its own.

Speaker 3:

You don't have to consciously do that. I don't think I really got that mess. My second birth at home, like bond just kind of came, popped right out. But my third one is where I think that really hit home. I was in the shower for a while and just kind of swaying, and then I noticed that, oh my, I'm kind of groaning now, like kind of more guttural, like primal sound.

Speaker 3:

I just I consciously noticed that I was I had changed. And then I got in the birth pool and my body just pushed. That was my my son, Deacon, my third my four year old. My body just pushed him out, and it was so I just totally surrendered to the process. I didn't actively push him.

Speaker 3:

I didn't consciously think, my body pushed him out.

Speaker 1:

Got

Speaker 3:

it. And it was such a beautiful, easy, it was just a great experience. It was

Speaker 1:

like you felt that evolution from your first

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Like, I'm like, oh, I I really get it now, you know, from CrossFit competition birth to, oh, I just need to I just got to surrender To surrender. Surrender to the divine power of my body and that it has everything that it needs to do this.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's such an amazing story. You make me think of, it seems like there are a lot of moms and women that listen to the podcast and the progression that I see is like nutrition and the foods that you put into your system is kind of this gateway into the alternative health movement. So you go from like, all right, these are the foods that make me feel good. Now maybe I want to find like a regenerative farm to source from. Maybe I want to get in a homesteading, sauna, coal plunging.

Speaker 1:

And then it's like the tip of the spear kind of seems like the home birthing process and really taking control of something that's so important.

Speaker 3:

Well, think about it because it's like when you have a, you know, there's no judgment around having a baby in the hospital or having a baby in a birthing center. Like, don't, there's not a right or wrong answer. It's whatever the best answer is for you, what you're most comfortable with, but it's important that women know the different options that are available. But I do think that when you are able to birth your baby into the world and know that you did it yourself, that you, you know, because oftentimes it's easy to think if you had that baby in the hospital with a doctor, you know, with an epidural and meds, it's easy to think that you needed that to have the baby. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

That you needed, you know, the medical system for that. And so you're kind of birthing your baby into that paradigm. And so when you opt out of that, there's no one that I could point and say, oh, you did this other than look at myself. Right. You know?

Speaker 3:

And that's, it's hard to describe just how empowering that is.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. For the aspiring moms that are interested in maybe exploring a home birthing process, do you have any practical recommendations for finding like a really good midwife or any other resources that were really helpful to you with your four children?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, well, that's a great question. I mean, the first thing would be to talk to your friends, you know, whenever it comes to like a healthcare provider or you know any number of things like that, talk to your friends and get, see who they've used and get their experience. And then, you know, there's actually my midwife, her name's Monica Stone, she's here in Austin. She wrote a book called Why Homebirth? I think there's a subtitle there, but it's Why Choose Homebirth by Monica Stone.

Speaker 3:

And she walks through how to choose a midwife, but, you know, sit with, know, have a, go in, most of them offer free consults, right? Go have a consult with them, meet them, you know, what's most important, it's kind like a therapist I feel like, is that you, it doesn't really matter what modality they use. I mean, there's some modalities, right, that I think that are better than others. But the most important thing is that you feel comfortable with them, that you trust them, that you feel safe with them. Because when you're in that really, I mean, is cultivated within yourself, you know, nobody else is gonna give that to you, but when you're in a really vulnerable spot, it's important that you, you know, that the people that are around you, that you feel, you know, safe with them, that you trust them, definitely.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. I

Speaker 2:

can't help but think that there's a very similar way of thinking around homebirthing as there is birth control. Like these misconceptions that are built around fear that seems like it's kind of the system that builds that fear around just getting pregnant. And I didn't even know this until recently that there's only a few days of the month where a woman can actually get pregnant, which it was like, I was like, what?

Speaker 3:

Didn't I mean, I mean, that's by design, I think, you know, like we weren't, I was never taught about my cycle or any, I mean, I told you I was given a birth control pill at 16 years old, And you know, whether that's conscious or not, it disconnects us from our life force. As I mean, as a woman, what is, what else is there? I mean, that's such a primal thing is to be connected to your cycle and, you know, when you're fertile and, you know, the different phases of your cycle. Most, and I don't even think still most women are taught about that or, you know.

Speaker 1:

Cycle tracking.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean, it's definitely more popular now. There's more awareness around it because I think, and I would say the majority of my patients, you know, don't want to be on birth control, aren't on birth control. It's a minority that I have that are, because there is a lot more awareness around that now, but I still don't think there's, and the apps certainly help too, but I don't think there's a lot of education and awareness around your cycle. You know, and I guess that kind of harkens back to celebrations and rites of passage and things like that. You know, my kids are in a Waldorf and they're really big on like festivals and celebrations.

Speaker 3:

And I didn't, I used to not understand that, but that's really, really important, as a, as a society and a culture, right?

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

To mark these different, you know, when you get your first period for that to have some sort of, that's a rite of passion, right? And to have to celebrate that with other women and that's a great opportunity to learn about these things, you know? And so talking about that now, actually, I'm definitely going to put that on the roadmap for, you know, with my daughters, you know, but that was something that was not even, yeah, we didn't even talk about it. So it's like, yeah, you can just get pregnant whenever, you need this pill because without this pill, you're gonna get pregnant, you can't have sex, you know?

Speaker 2:

Yeah. If you don't take the chance to celebrate it or at least acknowledge it, then you're inviting in all those negative emotions that could legitimately live with you for the rest of your life. Negative. Just like embarrassment, fear.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, negative emotions, and also, you know, just not being in touch with your body.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 3:

That's just another example of how we are so disconnected from our body and our fertility. I mean, that's about reproducing, right?

Speaker 1:

Oh my gosh, 100

Speaker 3:

Which is, I mean, that's the point really, think of life, right? Yes, Is to procreate and to, you know, keep moving that forward.

Speaker 1:

Did you see that Heart and Soil mini documentary called Nourish that came out a few months ago?

Speaker 3:

No, I didn't.

Speaker 1:

It's like fifteen minutes. It's so good. And one of the most impactful parts of the documentary, The whole purpose of it is it's trying to advocate for why women need animal products.

Speaker 3:

Okay.

Speaker 1:

And they have a midwife. And then the most impactful part is they have a midwife come on and they show you two placentas. The one placenta is the mother that followed a plant based diet and the other that's followed an animal based diet. The placenta of the animal based mother, it was like this dark, rich, like ruby red color. And the plant based placenta was like this dull pink color.

Speaker 1:

And it was so impactful to see the comparison between these two placentas and like the food you're putting into your body is like, it's not just affecting you, it's affecting your kid as well. Yep. It was so interesting.

Speaker 3:

Absolutely, the food and the, and you know, it's like, we don't even know very much about placentas at this point. And like from a scientific perspective, you know, but I mean, that's a very visual thing, right? But yeah, food, emotional environment and support, light, you know, when that belly gets, you know, the thin, the skin gets thinner infrared light from the sun actually penetrates into the fetus. And that's really important, our light environment too. Nobody talks about that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, for pregnant mothers, are there any things that you did nutritionally that you felt like really helped nourish your child when you were pregnant that you would recommend to other moms too?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's a great question. So I think I primarily listened to my intuition and I did not follow a lot of the, I mean, the majority of the recommendations around diet, I just didn't listen to it. You know, there's a cool book called Sperm Wars. Have you all read that? No.

Speaker 3:

It's an old book, but it's a really interesting book. But basically, you know, the idea that they present in there, and this is just one of the ideas that they present, is that, you know, the nausea that happens early in pregnancy is actually protective, right? Because it's making the mother kind of avoid foods that tend to be more pathogenic, right? And so that's protective of the fetus, maybe not in the best interest of the mother.

Speaker 2:

Interesting, So, that's

Speaker 3:

you know, from my experience with four pregnancies is that early in pregnancy, crave a lot of carbs and, you know, wanted bread and things that I normally wouldn't eat, but I allowed myself that, you know, I listened to my body, and then, you know, later on, raw oysters, steak tartare, I mean, craved raw fish and Interesting. And, you know, the traditional recommendations is you should definitely avoid those things. They could potentially, you know, be contaminated and make you sick. But you know, there's a common sense piece of that, which is you can just get really high quality food and make sure that it's fresh and that's minimal concern. So yeah, so my body always craved those things later on in pregnancy, you know, after that first trimester, and I indulged and had no problem whatsoever.

Speaker 1:

But

Speaker 3:

it made me feel good, so it's about listening to what makes you feel good, and if that's raw milk or, you know, meat or seafood, then I say go for it.

Speaker 2:

Do you have any recommendations for women who are interested in transitioning away from birth control and now starting to think about pregnancy and fertility? Because I hadn't really thought about it until we started the show, but we've had some amazing people on the show talking about that topic specifically. I think for most people, they just expect that they're going to be able to get pregnant immediately. And it doesn't seem like that's the case from all the people who've come on the show and talked about that. But there definitely have to be steps in between that can help people actually create that fertility and recover from the damage that birth control does.

Speaker 3:

That's a fantastic question. And I do see a lot of women, know, and it's just like, oh, well I'm gonna get off birth control, I'm be, I'm healthy, you know, I'm gonna be pregnant within a month, and it, sometimes it works out that way. You know, the human body's really resilient. But it doesn't always, you know, so I would say it's just, you know, getting, expecting, give yourself like a washout, expect a washout period or that, know, say you're wanting to get pregnant, you know, a year from now or something, you know, then I would probably give myself six to twelve months to kind of, you know, let my hormones stabilize to get that stuff out of my system. Know, and I would say the principles are just the same as living, you know, what you would do to live a normal healthy lifestyle, but, you know, eating high quality nutrient dense food, you know, as we talked, mostly meat, fish, you know, local seasonal fruit and veggies.

Speaker 3:

Obviously exercise we know is important and, you know, maintaining a healthy body fat percentage. And that's the other, I wanna say that's the other thing that I see a lot too because my patient population leans healthier and more health conscious. Rather than being overweight, I see an issue with being underweight, right? And maybe they're working out, you know, too much and not fueling themselves with enough calories or nutrients, or you know, they're intermittent fasting a lot or whatever. So I see the opposite of that, right?

Speaker 3:

Like they lose their periods or they're not as fertile because, you know, they're under eating and overworking out. So that, and then, and you can check labs, right, to check on these things. You know, really important to have a healthy, you know, optimal thyroid function and to look at your leptin level. You know, that's your master, you know, above all the other sex hormones and that regulates energy demands in the body. You know, those things are really important.

Speaker 3:

Progesterone, you know, your sex hormones. We can look at these things, right? So probably a good idea to check them and a micronutrient panel to check the status of, you know, the micronutrients in your body. Because, baby's always gonna get what the baby needs but it's gonna be at the mom's detriment. So it's really important and I would say, you know, we do have an epidemic of, you probably know like Kate Shanahan's work I'm sure and Weston A.

Speaker 3:

Price, right? Moms are malnourished and you know which causes, you know which Weston A. Price right was looking at the jaw structure and dental issues in children but that's because they were born to malnourished mothers. So really important to make sure that your nutrient status is you know, in check before you get pregnant. But otherwise, you know, food, light environment, know, that you're getting plenty of sunlight during the day, that it's completely dark at night, that you're sleeping well, you know, and that you have good relationships.

Speaker 3:

And then surrendering to the fact that this isn't gonna happen on your timeline. That there's some greater, you know, we get this, you know, in medicine and when we think about health even a very, we think of the body as very mechanistic.

Speaker 2:

But

Speaker 3:

there's this spiritual energetic component to it that we definitely don't comprehend, right? And so the best thing that you can do really, I see so many women stress themselves out that not, you know, happening on their timeline. Maybe they've waited longer than they felt they should have. They haven't listened to their intuition about that. And so then they just, you know, white knuckle it and that certainly doesn't make things any easier.

Speaker 3:

So the best thing, know, easy said and hard to do is just surrender to this is on a timeline and there's a greater plan here than the plan that you have for yourself.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's so good. I loved what you were saying about this intuitive sense of what you should be eating when you were pregnant. And I would imagine that that intuition must have come from you fueling your body for years with the right foods. You develop this internal intuition. And I think about how many people who've just been flooding their bodies with processed foods, there's literally no way for you to develop that intuition if you weren't taking care of yourself for years prior I would imagine,

Speaker 2:

right?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, mean at least having some sort of, because I could tell, first example was when my track coach, Coach Tucker, I'm gonna see him in a couple weeks, recommended that I not drink sodas, right? And it wasn't just me, he made the recommendation to the team, right? Right. Which at the time, like I said, everybody had sodas in their fridge. And like I noticed that I felt different, know?

Speaker 3:

And then like fast forward to college, you know, I tried the vegan thing. I like, I don't feel like shit on this. You know, I don't have energy. Fast forward to when I was started doing CrossFit and I cut out grains and other, I'm like, oh, I'm not puffy. You know, I didn't even know I was puffy before.

Speaker 3:

I just felt better. I recovered better. You know? And so, because I remember at first it was hard. Like I crave some sweeter things and I, you know, go eat it and then I'm like, oh, I don't feel good.

Speaker 3:

Know? And you do that enough, you're just like, wow, that's just not worth it. Know? You know, and luckily I never had any major health issues that really, you know, made me think twice about those things, but it's enough to realize, oh, I feel this way when I'm eating clean and I feel this way, you know, when I have achy joints and my tummy hurts, you know, when I eat, you know, this processed stuff or lots of sugar.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, the information that you gain through experimenting on yourself is so powerful. Even with you guys, it's basically been a gateway to all these different layers to this whole free thinking outside the box lifestyle, which at a certain point in history was just like how people would live, but now it's outside the box.

Speaker 3:

Right. I was, you know, it was funny. My therapist asked me the other day, would you ever thought that you, this the vision for yourself that you'd be living on land and you know, and I was like, no, thought, you know, even just a few years ago, like Tucker actually had to drag me like kicking and screaming out to like Barton Creek, you know? Yeah. It's like, oh, that's too far outside of the city.

Speaker 3:

I got really upset about it. Then now I can't imagine, I like to come into town occasionally to have some good food or something, but I don't miss it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

You know, some of my best days, you know, the thing that I look forward to the most and the thing that I kind of design my days around is what can I do to be naked and barefoot outside as much as possible?

Speaker 1:

Those are two signs that you're gonna have an amazing day if you can do those things, right? Yeah. Did you always know that you wanted to be a mom?

Speaker 3:

Yes, I did. And I always knew, I mean, I wanted four kids too. Yeah, I always knew that.

Speaker 1:

Part of why I'm asking that is I was in New York for four years. You were in Boston for like five years. And there's this really interesting thing with millennial women where a lot of women in those cities or LA, etcetera. It's almost like the cool thing is to be super career oriented and maybe not wanna get married or have children. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And I'm just curious just your perspective on that and why you think that is.

Speaker 3:

That's a great question. I mean, think our society, right, and I think part of that's the, as a result of the feminist movement, right? I mean I was definitely, I wouldn't say that I was exempt from the brainwashing that you that you need to have a career and you know, make money and be successful. And that's what matters in life. And I definitely felt that, you know, being a stay at home mom, like then who are you?

Speaker 3:

Like that wasn't, there was no value placed on that, you know? And mentioned that again. That was not around at all. Nobody talked about that in a, as any type of valuable role, you know, when I was growing up. And so I was definitely, you know, when I met Tucker I used to try to like oh let me try pay for dinner or you know whatever, like split things with him, you know to be kind of fiftyfifty, which is ridiculous because he, especially then, was making way more money than I was.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. But I just had this thing in my head about like everything had to be equal. And he's like, no honey, like there's roles, there's things that, you know, that I can do and do better than you, and then there's things that you bring to the relationship. We don't have to do the same things. Yes.

Speaker 3:

You know, but it was, it's definitely, you know, so I definitely had that kind of programming. I still wanted children, I always knew that, but I definitely had that programming and that was really difficult especially, you know, it kind of came to a head when I had my first, when I had Bishop and you know, I had started my first company and it was, you know, really, you know, really becoming busy and I felt this pull between being a mother and a wife and being a successful, you know, business person. And I would say that actually kind of characterized, was kind of a primary thing for several, you know, the first few years that Tucker and I were married, just me constantly feeling this pull, know? And again, I think the way to address that is, you know, was me doing emotional work as well, why do I feel like I need to go and succeed like outside of the house and why I'm, you know, like, it was about me learning to love myself on a very basic level rather than doing things to get love, you know, from other people because that's never gonna fill that hole anyway.

Speaker 3:

But that was a painful journey for

Speaker 1:

me. Yeah.

Speaker 3:

You know? But I think a lot of women are just brainwashed that there's no value in being a wife and a mom, you know, all the values outside of the home. And I think that's obviously totally false and the opposite, in fact, is true.

Speaker 2:

One of the things that Brett and I were talking about on the way over was how much we admire yours and Tucker's relationship. How much of having him as supportive and honestly just a great leader as a partner to help you kind of get through some of those emotions?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, no, I mean, it's super helpful to have someone who is, I think we have both been, you know, for the majority of our relationship, both been committed to self growth and doing our own work. You know, and especially the past few years, I would say that, you know, I understand that I can't save him and he can't save me. What I mean by that is I can't do his work, he can't do mine, but he can be there as a solid, you know, stable, loving, like, person in my life to support me while I you know dive into the depths of my shadow and you know the hard work that I, because we all have work to do emotionally and things that we don't wanna look at. And it's helpful to have a partner that's going to kind of love you through that, you know? And that is also doing their own work.

Speaker 3:

Yes. Because, you know, you're either gonna grow together or you're gonna grow apart. And it doesn't work if just one of you is doing your work and the other one's not, right, because then you're going to grow in opposite directions. You know, but I think that because we're both doing that work, you know, we're able, and as we have become, as we've gotten to know ourselves better, we've been able to, you know, love each other better, you know, to be more vulnerable with because you can only love someone else as much as you love yourself. Mhmm.

Speaker 3:

And and learn to be, you know, really vulnerable with each other. And we still have work to do.

Speaker 1:

It's a constant iterative process.

Speaker 3:

We're always, yeah, like I don't think I'm ever gonna be done with therapy. There's always more growth and more layers of the onion to peel. You know, and I just consider that part of my wellness practice. Mhmm. You know?

Speaker 1:

Which is such a cool thing because it's like you just keep evolving, you keep getting better. When we had Tucker on in this studio for the second time, one of the most impactful moments for us is it was maybe a year or two before he met you, but he was, I think he was kinda doing some of that shadow type work with a therapist. Mhmm. And it was really humbling because he said, you know, he made a list of all these characteristics of what he looked for in a wife and a partner. And it was maybe like 20 things.

Speaker 1:

Was like super descriptive. Then you had this moment of reflection of like, if Veronica is out there making this list for the partner that she wants, do I actually stack No. Up with the same

Speaker 3:

on that You would not have list, no. Yeah. Yeah, it's funny. Even when our friend, because our friend connected us, right? It was kind of, they were set up.

Speaker 3:

And she texted me and she was like, hey, I've got this guy I want you to meet. His name's Tucker Max. And she said it like he was somebody I didn't know who he was. And so of course the first thing that I do, right, what would you do?

Speaker 1:

Google it. Yeah,

Speaker 3:

so I go Google it. It's like, hi, my name's Tucker Max. I get inappropriately drunk and sleep with all these women. Was like, what in the, why are you wanting to introduce me to this And then like six months later she kept asking and I was, she said, okay, well, if he's, he must at least be, you know, funny. So, and I had nothing to do one night.

Speaker 3:

I went out with him. I was like, oh, he's not an asshole. He's just honest and direct. And I like that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

You know, and that's actually for me when a lot of my self exploration started because he, you know, he was asking me, we went out and had wine after we'd had dinner with the couple friends, and he was asking me all these questions about like, you know, growing up and my dad and you know, our relationship. And I like, and I was was really like, he will tell you, like, was sitting in my chair, like nervously going back and forth like this, but I was answering answering the questions and I was intrigued. Was like, Oh, nobody's ever asked me these things before. Like, he's really interested. And then the next day that I was like, I'm not sure I like that guy.

Speaker 3:

Like I, cause I was really anxious. Like it really brought up a lot of stuff that I hadn't thought about. And then I was like, but he had shared with me too that he was in therapy and I was like, Oh, you know, cause I was raised in my mom, you know, my parents would say something. I think my mom would say like, Oh, it takes one to know one, you know, as far as therapy and, you know, that mental health is concerned. And so, yeah, so he had said, told me that he was in therapy and so I'd asked him, I think it was on our like second date.

Speaker 3:

I was like, so, you know, I'd given it some thought, you know, do you, I think I'm going to start therapy. Do have anybody that you recommend? Know, and that's kind of started my, just his inquiry, very, if you know, you know, you guys know him, his very direct inquiry, you know, he kind of shined a mirror on some, parts of, of me that I, had not wanted to look at previously.

Speaker 1:

When you were dating in the beginning, did you put any attention into, like, the reputation he had had in his past life? Or are you just the type of person that's like, he's this is literally a different Tucker than who he was ten years ago?

Speaker 3:

For the most part, I did not. I mean, because I didn't I to this day, I haven't read all of his books. You know, I actually when I read his books, you know, I've through, you know, a couple of them, but like some of I see the like he was hurting, you know, during the, like, like, Oh, you're like, I feel sad, you know, about like, you know, where he was looking for love and all this other, you know, kind of by, by, or numbing himself by drinking or partying or whatever it was he was doing. Right. Not plenty of it's like really funny too.

Speaker 3:

Don't get me wrong. It's hilarious. But, at the same time also I, my, my heart goes out to me. I love because I love this man. Right.

Speaker 3:

But no, it's funny. The first, I think it was our second date. He actually picked me up and then dropped me off at home and he'll tell you, like, got out of the car before the car even stopped. And he was like, he was like, I thought I knew women well. And I thought that day really, really well, but she just like ran out of the car And like from my perspective, you know, then, you know, because I had Googled him and seen his website and I like, yeah, getting I don't know what the hell he's, you know, I didn't quite trust him then, but, but shortly after that, no, I mean, I just, because I knew the person, I was looking at the person that was in front of me, I didn't have an, because I didn't know who he was.

Speaker 3:

I hadn't read any of his books. I didn't have some idea in my mind about who he was. I just got to see, you know, who the person was that I was interacting with. And that was someone who was very honest, very intelligent, very direct, and extraordinarily loyal and loving and sweet. Probably in many ways he's sweeter than I am.

Speaker 3:

And most people

Speaker 2:

He made us ice cream.

Speaker 3:

Believe. Yeah. I mean, he's homeschooling our nine year old.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

You know? And he's doing a better job than I would do.

Speaker 1:

Mhmm. Well, even with us too, Harry and I have noticed this, like, because you come across so many different people in this space. Like, even from the first time he met us, his mindset was always like, hey, I can connect you with this or have you talked to that person? Like, his mindset was always like, how can I help

Speaker 3:

Exactly? These That that is Tucker. Yeah. You know? And people have an idea in their head and what you know?

Speaker 3:

I think that's what people do about a lot of, you know, people they haven't met that they think they know from, from TV or media or whatever. You know, but the reality is often very different.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

You can tell the, the layers to his thinking are so deep. Like the last conversation we had with him, he was like, I know exactly where you guys are at. Like, and it was just, it was a cool perspective because you could tell he was talking to us as if we were like humbly like just like friends. Yeah. But he's like, I just know where you guys are at in your careers.

Speaker 2:

And like he has like ways to help us and people he wanted to introduce us to. And it was like just a really insight into the way he thinks that he can actually be that empathetic and be like, I know where you guys are.

Speaker 3:

He is amazing at that. And that's what makes him an excellent teacher.

Speaker 2:

You

Speaker 3:

know? I mean, he's probably, I mean, without a doubt, he's the smartest person I know. I mean, extraordinarily intelligent. And also, yeah, he just really wants to help, you know? And I think anybody that interacts with him or has been around him in person knows that, you know.

Speaker 1:

Totally. We had such a good conversation with him, but the best moment of the conversation we actually didn't capture was like the five minutes after we left the studio. Yeah. And I I think I just said to him, I was like, you know, how do you think about, you know, just telling your kids as they get older, just like some of the stories or the things they used to write about? And he brought up the poopy daddy That's

Speaker 3:

a good one.

Speaker 1:

And I don't know if it was Vaughn or someone Who Vaughn? That had an incident, and you were like

Speaker 3:

It was Vaughn.

Speaker 1:

You know, your daddy did the same thing when he was an adult, right? And it was like

Speaker 3:

No. Was like, during that moment, I was just like, I should I tell this? It's not, you know, should I or should I'm like, yeah, totally. Because Vaughn really connects with, and I think most children do, you know, when they're going through something difficult, like emotionally, I found that when I can share something, usually from, from my childhood, when I've gone through something similar and I'm really vulnerable with her, that she really resonates with that. And that helps more than anything else.

Speaker 3:

In this instance, I shared something vulnerable from Tucker's Yeah. History. But, yeah, no. My kids still, like, I think a few weeks ago, they're poopy daddy. Poopy daddy.

Speaker 3:

Dad or dad. Daddy daddy pooped in the hotel lobby lobby or something like that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. And now she just makes fun of my name, so it's perfect.

Speaker 3:

Brett Ender.

Speaker 2:

It's been so fun getting to know you guys and just like, we're so pumped to continue to develop the relationship and support you in any way we can with UltraPersonal Care. Like what you guys are doing is amazing. And we're just incredibly supportive and aligned on the mission of just getting people access to the care to help them prevent these types of diseases and live a really healthy and robust life.

Speaker 3:

Thank you. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 3:

It's been enjoyable getting to meet you guys too. And it's so exciting to see what y'all are doing and how much energy you have around it. You know, we're kind of outside the city now in a different phase of our life, but it's cool to see how y'all are, you know, what you're doing in the space.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. And we're so pumped because now officially like the Meat Mafia team, the Noble team, we're going to be leveraging UltraPersonal Healthcare. So we're so pumped to just get more people on it, just focusing on preventative, you know, cures to a lot of these things. What is the best way for people to connect with UltraPersonal if they want that more like preventative approach to medicine and primary care?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, thank you for the question. You can just go to UltraPersonal. Healthcare. That's our website. And I think it explains most of it on there, but it's basically concierge care, but at an affordable price and from a holistic mindset.

Speaker 3:

And we take care of the whole family. And so you can even sign up online.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, awesome.

Speaker 2:

We got so in the weeds, we didn't even get to get fully into that. So we're going have to a part two here.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, there's so many things to talk about. It's interesting.

Speaker 1:

Well, we've never done a deep dive on like just pregnancy and lot of these other And it's like, there's a lot of women that listen to the show that need to know these things. So we're definitely gonna do a part two. Thank you so much Veronica. Appreciate you for coming on.

Speaker 3:

It's fun to talk to you with you guys.

Speaker 2:

Thanks, Veronica. Alright. I wish we had another thirty minutes.