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This podcast is dedicated to changing the automotive industry for the better, one conversation at a time.
Whether you're a technician, vendor, business owner, or car enthusiast, we hope to inspire you to improve for your customers, your careers, your businesses, and your families.
David Roman 0:01
Are you going to talk to him? Yeah.
Lucas Underwood 0:05
You probably shouldn't.
David Roman 0:06
You probably shouldn't say that you can talk to him and then not talk to him.
Lucas Underwood 0:10
Don't talk to me. Why did he say I haven't talked to him
David Roman 0:14
with a little butthurt? Okay. Secondly, Lucas time.
Lucas Underwood 0:18
All right. Well, I'll call him up.
David Roman 0:19
And I said, I'm willing to give you lots of Lucas time, because I need a little not Lucas time.
Lucas Underwood 0:25
Thanks. I appreciate that. So,
Chris Jones 0:29
what's going on? How you doing? I'm doing well.
Lucas Underwood 0:31
What do you think of the show?
Chris Jones 0:32
It's been good. It's been good. A lot of a face a lot of folks right now, some new people that I hadn't met before.
Lucas Underwood 0:38
That's pretty cool. It's always good. What were you doing before you were working for ratchet wrench,
Chris Jones 0:42
all kinds of stuff. I was in a lot of stuff. So maturity, maturity is pretty wide. But I was I was in journalism before then. So I was working, doing a parenting magazines. Were going to parenting magazine. I was working in a kind of a city magazine. Yeah. So I was writing for both those editing both of those. I've worked in books, books, and book publishing. So I've worked with authors helping them to either ghost write their books, write their books I've done I've done a good deal of like writing and editing for them is pretty cool. 1012 years,
David Roman 1:10
and Lucas did a terrible job of introducing you. You are.
Chris Jones 1:14
I'm Chris Jones. I'm the editor at ratchet and rich.
David Roman 1:16
Thank you. Appreciate that. It's nice to have you. Yeah. Good. Let's have a nice conversation. Like a professional podcast. What are we doing here? What are we doing here? We're hanging out.
Lucas Underwood 1:27
What are you doing here? So we recently changed our format to where we don't have like, David use to record an intro. Yeah. And he loves it when I don't do intros.
David Roman 1:43
You've missed the mark, I think. No, no, you've done decent. The last one. I had to do an intro. Imagine that you had to do something. He's mailing it in. That's what he's doing. He's just like, he's on the downloads like this last recording. I'm just gonna sit back. Don't worry about it. I'll find somebody that can talk. Don't Don't worry. I got Chris
Lucas Underwood 2:04
Jones. So, uh, parenting magazine. Yeah. That's pretty cool.
Chris Jones 2:13
It is pretty cool. It's parenting is such a different world.
Lucas Underwood 2:17
Right? Well, I mean, now you come into automotive? Yeah. Shop ownership
Chris Jones 2:21
that yeah, that was that was that's very different. It's been very different. Well, but I
Lucas Underwood 2:25
mean, like, that parenting experience is probably going to be pretty useful. Especially like, you know, an example. It's
Chris Jones 2:35
funny when you think about it. I mean, parenting is very similar to entrepreneurship, though. Yeah, in every way. I guess it really I mean, running running a business is very similar to running a family, except you have the emotional components you're dealing or the emotional component with family and children and wives, but it's very similar that not a far cry and a far difference.
Lucas Underwood 2:52
David does not, but I personally get the same emotional issues with my shop. Yeah. Right. Like, because I care about it. I care about my people. And I carry about two experiences, right? Yeah. So I get the same thing. So how did you find ratchet and wrench? Did they find you? Did you?
Chris Jones 3:09
I found them so So towards the end of the pandemic, and I was I was running, working with a couple of magazines. Yeah, the publishers were concerned that the pandemic would take another wave in 2021. Right. They were like, we're not sure if we could have another wave. So they started scaling back on the territories recovering, which meant that we covered two different territories, two different magazines. So right, so they wanted to combine them into a single one bound issue, okay, which would take me out of the editor spot and put the other editor as the chief editor. And I would be basically the features writer and develop writers. And so I started to kind of see the handwriting on the wall that this isn't gonna sustain. Let me see if there's something else out there someone else out there who's looking for an editor, right, who wants to be more full time or involved? Because that's what I wanted. Yeah. And so I went on to indeed, and I found the job ad for what's, you know, what was 10 missions at the time, right. And everything within the 10 missions, job ad was everything that I could do at a very high level, right, which was like writing which was editing, which was like, you know, connecting with people, which is like, basically taking ownership of a publication, right, sometimes very comfortable doing so I applied for the position. They screen me call me back, gave me a couple of interviews and then offered me a position last January, and it's a I mean, year, yeah. Year February the seventh. It doesn't
Lucas Underwood 4:27
seem like it's been that long. Yeah. But like, we've had some really in depth conversations. Yeah. And I'm, I'm somewhat amazed that you've picked Are
David Roman 4:36
you just agreeing with him? Or were they actually they've been
Chris Jones 4:39
in depth you can. I can hurt his wishes. You
Lucas Underwood 4:42
would? Not we? We had we had a really in depth conversation recently. And we weren't talking about any one company or anything like that, but we were talking about the value of our industry, right. And, and coaching companies and shops doing the right thing. Right. And one of the things that we're talking about, and I really appreciate his perspective on this is, is we're talking about shops that are looking at the results right now, right? They say, Hey, listen, I'm not going to worry about charging for that Diag. I'm not going to worry about paying the technicians, right, because I'm trying to get what I can get right now. And 10 years from now, if it's not here, I will have made mine. And that's okay. Who cares? It's not my problem. Versus and so share a little bit about your perspective of that, because you used a sports analogy I had never thought about, right, where you were talking about the the way that that professional coaches handled it.
Chris Jones 5:50
Remember which analogy we were talking about? Well, you
Lucas Underwood 5:53
were talking, I think we're talking about the NFL. And we were talking about the fact that you can tell the difference in the two types of teams. You remember that?
Chris Jones 6:01
Yeah, I vaguely remember it. But I think we were talking about which tournament was teams we were talking about? The difference between I can't remember I got a message somewhere. I can't remember off the top of my head. I know it's a message. But it was a good analogy, wasn't it? Yeah.
Lucas Underwood 6:15
It was it was
David Roman 6:16
talking about how good the analogy was not the actual analogy.
Lucas Underwood 6:21
We can do that.
Chris Jones 6:21
Yeah. I think what it was, so the heart of it, David, we're talking about the difference between a coaching situation like a team like in DC, Washington, right, which just continually has this culture of losing because they don't want to put the right people in place. Yeah, ownership is just consistent ownership, just concerned with getting a result. He just wants to win. He just wants to sell tickets, wants to sell merchandise. Yeah. And that's all that really matters to him. Right? The health of the team doesn't matter. Having the right people, the right personnel in place doesn't matter. Whereas you have a team like Pittsburgh or New England, there's a culture of winning, there's a standard, there's an expectation, they draft with expectation, they expect success out of all their players, and they're willing to put the effort in to make sure that those people are successful, as long as we're on that roster. Right. And then they'll do whatever it takes. Right. You know, and I think that's, that's, that's, that's the gist of what we were discussing just how important it was for for to develop that sort of culture and that sort of like brand identity.
David Roman 7:18
We could you see here DC just hired? I did the the offensive coordinator for the Kansas City Chiefs. Yeah, you know, who does all the offensive coordinating for the Kansas City Chiefs? The World Champion Kansas City Chiefs, the head coach, you know what, you know, who doesn't do any of the offensive coordinator? Run the team meetings? Script up the plays? The offensive coordinator, he didn't do any of that? What? I don't know. So the DC decides, hey, yeah, he is listed as the offensive coordinator. And he happens to be coaching the best quarterback in football, a generational talent, probably not gonna see another one like them ever again. We should hire that guy, and not give him a generational quarterback that we will never see again. And also recognize that isn't right, any of the plays and does come up with the ridiculous offensive schemes that are changing the NFL, so much so that they're building defenses around stopping Andy Reid's offense. That's what they're trying to do. Everybody tries to mimic and the Indy reads offense, greed. And because everybody's trying to mimic Andy Reid's offense, they're building defenses to stop Andy Reid's offense. He's not involved in any of that. So we should hire that guy. That sounds like they had a good coach. Ron, Ron Rivera.
Lucas Underwood 8:47
Yeah, yeah. He was a good coach. Yeah.
Chris Jones 8:50
So he's still there. And he'll probably I'm calling the plays himself. Right now. I'm not sure if if they just bring him in to design the offenses for Rhonda Cole. But, but I think that's the challenge is like, you know, when you look at a situation like that, again, it's it's the band dating. Yeah, well, it's been dating for Washington,
Lucas Underwood 9:07
but are they not looking at this? Right, right. Like, we use that analogy to say, Hey, I'm gonna get mine and it's gonna be okay. Right? And if I don't, well, whatever, but like, I'm just here for the now.
David Roman 9:22
You're right. He hired him. They hired him as the offensive coordinator and I thought he had been hired.
Lucas Underwood 9:29
But, but when you when you look at that, do you think that there are sports here? I'm talking about that, too, like you those teams still want to win. Those teams still want to be successful.
David Roman 9:43
He just said that they're, they don't care. They're there to sell tickets.
Lucas Underwood 9:49
In their mind, they're winning in their mind.
Chris Jones 9:54
They want to be successful today. They want to be successful tomorrow, the year after the year after that. They want to Be successful today. They weren't championships now. Right and I think that's part of the problem is that that's not sustainable. Because he because you see it happening so happen with the Rams rams just bought everybody. Yeah got a championship and just completely collapsed
David Roman 10:12
as the saints. Yeah. Because so much so that the coach bailed. He's like, I'm out. Yeah, this isn't this isn't gonna go anywhere. I'm out and they're millions over the cap. Like you're not going to be able to sign anybody. You can't do anything. So I'm out mandap trading them to, to them. Are they going to fix them? No, no, really? What? That's a spicy take. No.
Chris Jones 10:37
I think I just think Russell's washed. Oh, really? I think he's washed.
Lucas Underwood 10:43
It was cringy ads.
David Roman 10:46
Have you seen the ads? No. This is Broncos country. Let's roll. It's super cringy Oh, and all the videos. Yeah, yeah, I
Chris Jones 10:55
think I think he's washed I don't think he's gotten I mean, because you saw what what happened when they just put Gino in the exact same system and Gino looks like a star. And same system that recent. Yeah. And they rusted. They didn't want to be a part of anymore.
David Roman 11:11
And canopy right?
Lucas Underwood 11:13
I think he is right, man that that was a terrible season. It was hard to watch. Like, I had to turn a couple games off and be like, I can't
David Roman 11:19
watch. You can watch other games. They're boring to me.
Chris Jones 11:23
You look at you look at a team like Denver. Yeah. Who was holding people to 16 points and you can't score 17? Yeah. I mean, 17 that a lot of points. The Texans can score. 17. Right. And that's the Panthers
Lucas Underwood 11:37
can score.
David Roman 11:38
You say that. But look at what happened in in New York with the Giants. Yeah. BRIAN DE ball comes in with the with the exact same offense. As what's his notes from Joe. Yeah. Joe, Joe, Joe had from the exact same offense. And they looked fantastic.
Chris Jones 11:57
Did I have mixed feelings about that? Because I question Will is, is Danny playing super great because it's contract? Yeah. Well, he regressed next. Do you think that's my question? I don't know. It's I don't know. I know that. Gosh, you have a contract here. You really I think got a contract. I
David Roman 12:13
think you're right. Yeah. But the the culture changed. Like you're saying the culture changed entirely. And they put in a competent offense. And Georgia, which was a really good special teams coach. And then that's it. Yeah. When you saw a quarterback sneak 39. Mix your own endzone. And that's the the call they play or the play they call it like what is going on? You know that there's something wrong. Yeah. If that exact same off and say, Look, bites out there looked so good. I thought they were gonna be the Vikings.
Chris Jones 12:50
I think that you'd have I think you do. I think you're right. I think I think they ball has enough of that nurturing ability with quarterbacks that he can Coach Danny up. It's just will he goes down? Yeah.
David Roman 13:01
That's all well dandy taken that? Yeah. Yeah. It seems
Chris Jones 13:04
it seems like he wants to be the guy. It's just will he regrets if he gets the money? That's the question. It's always the question, Mark.
Lucas Underwood 13:11
So hold up, though. We, we had a discussion earlier, and we were talking about people making a decision to share information like you a technician who's applying for a job. You don't want
David Roman 13:25
to keep trying to pull this back. No, no, no, I'm
Lucas Underwood 13:27
not trying. I'm not trying to. You gotta hear me out. I'm tying it back to something you said earlier. No, it just happens to be about a technician. You said that you were talking about the fact that they You didn't think that they would have the ability or the knowledge to intentionally hide that they didn't have that ability. Right. Sure. In other words there. Do you think it's really possible though, that he could sandbag that intentionally sandbag that? Do you think professional sports players sandbag and trying to hold back except for something
David Roman 13:59
Peyton Manning said, I don't know if you've ever heard this Peyton Manning said by the time you get to the NFL, everybody's playing a such an elite level that there is a fraction of a difference between the highest paid NFL player in the lowest paid NFL player. They're all so good. You're talking about the elite of the league, the very the very best in the world playing and so the question then was well, what's the difference between this 32nd Rank quarterback in the superstar and Aaron Rodgers you know, an absolute superstar he goes a built our preparation in will that's it. They they are focused on being the absolute best and push themselves where some of these guys like they'll give it a go. And some of them even perform really well because they're just so gifted, like the dude from Arizona. Kyler Murray. Yeah. You ever seen the thing about the video games? Yeah. So He Call of Duty comes out in his stats tank, right? Because he plays so many videos. He's he's got his own Twitch channel.
Chris Jones 15:07
He put a clause in his contract last year. Yeah back that actually became such a big distraction.
Lucas Underwood 15:15
KPIs went down every time a new Call of Duty comes out, but I guess no, no.
David Roman 15:20
Is there a correlation probably
Lucas Underwood 15:23
quit looking at my numbers when it came out kind
Chris Jones 15:25
of like when back when they used to track when Madden came out, like every time a new Madden came out and like productivity go down or whether or not the unstable double A tournament comes on TV. productivity goes down. And the Oh, yeah, the studies show that people are watching it on their screens instead of doing work.
David Roman 15:40
But you get to highlight Kyler Murray, who is supremely gifted? Yes. And he's playing off those gifts. But the minute his body starts to break down a little bit like we don't know what's going to happen, he just blew out as as ACL. So you may not come back the same ever again. He will just be like, Oh, everybody will just look at that injury. But it will probably wasn't that he could absolutely come back and be just as good. Or even better than he was before. But it's a matter of willpower like Does he really want to Will he prepare and mess will Peyton Manning will say and the difference between the best quarterback in the worst quarterback is how well they prepare for the game. And how much they want it. That's it. It's not ability. Because they all have the ability to to do it. They could all be Peyton Manning's. It's just that only Peyton Manning wanted to be a Peyton man. But I
Lucas Underwood 16:28
mean, like, let's be real about this. Any one of us could have a winning season and could take that money and could live pretty comfortably. For a long time. Right? Maybe not the
David Roman 16:42
the backup for the chiefs. has won two or three championships, just writing the pie. Right. And he he's he retired a champion, because I am retiring. He's like late 30s. He's like I'm out. Filthy Rich. Great. And yeah. Greatest backup of all time, barely through a pass one several championships, collected hundreds of 1000 millions of dollars in salary. Why not? So
Lucas Underwood 17:11
I mean, what's the drive to do it over? I mean, winning championship after championship? I guess I could see that. But what's the drive? What's the drive to continue to? Another word? Like,
David Roman 17:25
what's the drive for? Sean O'Brien who wants to you know, when he told me that full? He goes, I want to have enough stores to do $120 million in revenue. And I go what? He's like, Yeah, that's what I put out there. He's doing EOS entrepreneurial operations and he's like that's my big goal. What to Jordan nuts
Lucas Underwood 17:51
Why $20 million year in revenue. Wow. There's
David Roman 17:56
if I wouldn't bet against them. I really wouldn't be am I hold it for his health holds up and he can physically do it. Like he'll put his head down we'll get it done. He just and then you have to question that and go
Lucas Underwood 18:09
why? How many shots or how many? How many organizations? That's not how many shots how many organizations are in that category? You think 120 million a year.
Chris Jones 18:21
internet shops are Yeah, I don't know that. I don't know if there are any are there any? I mean there might I mean you have Christian Brothers is a big franchise there's a bunch of shops but
Lucas Underwood 18:32
I mean they're so broken up I mean, Doug grills could be
David Roman 18:37
to the he's got five stores he's doing 120 minutes got more than
Chris Jones 18:44
simply choose gotta they gotta Yeah, several. Yeah. Dr. Risky, she's got a bunch.
Lucas Underwood 18:49
There might be so if it's an anomaly, that's for sure. There might be for organizations that connection numbers like that. What do you think the drive is to make them push that hard? What I mean is is it about winning at that point, or is it about
Chris Jones 19:05
dominance? Yeah, dominance I mean, you think anything to guy like Jordan those guys it was just dominance or Tiger Woods it's always about dominance to Tom Brady was keep getting rings because it's just it's just its dominance thing just being that presence.
Lucas Underwood 19:20
I I just don't I mean, maybe that's why I've never accomplished because I just don't care that much.
David Roman 19:28
Christian brothers that 11 point 6 billion in sales billion in sale with a beat yeah
Lucas Underwood 19:37
maybe I don't want to be an editor anymore.
David Roman 19:39
Well, I mean, this individual stores aren't doing that it's just as a collected them. That's all the franchises put together, which are not collecting that either that they're just getting up whatever 10 15% cut across the board there. But as a franchise and I think that's his that's his goal is model he has This O'Brien tire, little thing go in there. I mean, it's a it's a good logo. I think it looks like a franchise. It looks like a franchise. So what what he's already built?
Chris Jones 20:11
The guy wants to do 120 Yeah. Well, that's I think that's I think that's everything. Identity starts everything once you create that identity, like when you talk about brand new create the identity and get everyone to buy in around that. Yeah, yeah. And then you put the systems and processes in place where it's just turnkey, turnkey turnkey, from store to store to store.
Lucas Underwood 20:28
Right. Well, I mean, like, I don't want to completely flip the subject. But it's, it's interesting, because I kind of felt like that, in a way like you've somewhat done that with your magazine. Right? We've talked about that. Is that like, use there was a fundamental shift in the magazine? I think, no, no, it never took over about the same time. But like, a lot of us being friends, I see a lot of your mentality and your style in the magazine that wasn't there. And I've told David, this. And David like, rolls his eyes. He's a jackass. But like it, it all of a sudden feels like it's going in the direction of true journalism, as opposed to what other people might say is like, an ad publication you wrote, I mean, yeah. Like it. I don't want to say it was an ad publication before. Please don't misunderstand.
Chris Jones 21:23
No, I understood what you're saying. Because we've talked offline. Yeah.
Lucas Underwood 21:27
But I mean, it really seems like the passion is now journalism. And when maybe it wasn't before. Is that the case?
Chris Jones 21:37
I mean, the goal, the goal is to do high quality reporting in the industry, you know, really to dig up the stories, find the people, you know, find the faces that are not represented, just just really show the full spectrum of the industry that people just have never seen, right? I mean, like being somewhat being someone who's an outsider who's never been in the industry, but who's done that on various levels in different industries, right. I've seen how it's benefited, right? I can the parenting sphere, like just showing various types of parenting parenting style, what different families look like, how they operate, and how successful that was. I mean, yeah, of course, there's always the push back. But when you when you keep doing it, you get comfortable, you get going, right. And so that's what we did in that sector. And then same thing with the last magazine, I was working with a local school, same thing, we just okay, whose story is not being told? And why Yeah, let's go find those people find their stories, get the get the origin going, and then just put them in front of people and let people decide what they want to do with it doesn't matter to me, whether you like it or not, what are you going to do with it? Right? And so that's what I try to do with ratchet and wrench is just, here's the story. What are you going to do with it? It's your choice. If you embrace it, embrace it, if you don't, and that's on you. Yeah, exactly. I'm trying to show you different, what the industry looks like as a whole, like what you're talking about, just what are some of the challenges people are going through what successes, some of the failures, some of the just all of it, you know, we don't want to hide things, but we want to be really candid, be open and honest about what we're dealing with. So we can all like, you know, rise together? Well, I
Lucas Underwood 23:00
mean, I think it's definitely changed. You're getting ready to say something that may interrupt, you know. Sure.
David Roman 23:08
Yeah. Love your survey.
Chris Jones 23:10
Oh, yeah. Thanks, I really appreciate that.
David Roman 23:13
It kills it best in the industry, the the information you get out of that is depressing. So depressing. It's terrible. The numbers have been getting better, it's better if you go back to like, 2017. Survey. And when you look at like, the latest ones, it's it's more encouraging to see how many, how many shops actually have more than one scan tool or a scan tool, or are reading KPIs, and just things like that. But it's crazy. You tell them it's like, Hey, if you're doing less than a million, like 16% of shops, I think that's the number I'm I can't remember off the top my head, but it's like 16% of shops that read their KPIs. Do less than a million. But it's 84%. Don't read their KPIs. But if you go over that million mark, all of a sudden, it's like 50 60% of shops are reading their KPIs. And you're like, This could be a little bit of correlation doesn't equal causation like that. You're absolutely
Chris Jones 24:14
right. It's the same thing with the data about peer networking. People who peer network, yeah, their team does better if people were coached in some level degree, whether it's in their groups or with an actual, you know, mentor. The shots do better. Just having an accountability on various sectors, you see the difference in the data?
Lucas Underwood 24:34
What what's been your biggest takeaway thus far? Right? Because you came like you've, you've acknowledged you came from outside the industry. And then you came in and like, you got a crash course really quick. Oh, I
Chris Jones 24:44
did. This was my first event a year ago, right. It was like I was about three weeks into the job three and a half weeks into the job and like, Alright, we're going to Kansas City.
Lucas Underwood 24:51
Right. What what's been your biggest takeaway so far?
Chris Jones 24:54
I think my biggest takeaway is that people do care. And people are really passionate about the industry. They really want it to do well. All right, yeah, they want to see it do well. I think I think people are looking for answers. Yeah. They want to know, they want to know how they're gonna think it's like he was talking about in I was in a session yesterday with the speakers named Darren, Barney Darren Barney. I was in daring bodies. And he said, Yeah, people are very good at finding problems. But they don't always know how to find the solution. Yeah. And so you need people who can help them find the solution.
Lucas Underwood 25:26
That's very true. Well, I mean, I think the magazines got a lot to do with that. Yeah. Right. Because there's some people who aren't going to go find a coach. And, you know, like, a lot of people. My story didn't, didn't revolve around the magazine. But a lot of people say like, Hey, I heard about vision through something and an article in the magazine. I saw a number in there and, you know, like, you don't have to survey and they see that survey. And they're like, holy crap, every other shops doing a million plus, and I'm over here doing 50,000. There. They didn't even put 50,000 on the survey. That's not good. Like, what what am I doing wrong? Right. And so it creates a an image for them, it gives them an idea of of that something may not be what it what it needs to be, if you will, right.
Chris Jones 26:14
Yeah, that's true. I mean, I think today, someone from a sock came up to our table wanted to talk to me about he said, Yeah, I've been getting a bunch people asking about joining a sock from something that was in ratchet wrenches, you publish something in there. And I said, Not recently, I said, I, you know, we did something with Lucas about, you know, friend or foe with a shop owners, you know, that you need the network of the industry, right. That was months ago. And I said, but I did put that in the newsletter a few days ago. Right. And he said, that's probably what it is. But so that's that it's that connection. Right?
Lucas Underwood 26:42
What what do you see? With that perspective? You've got what do you see our biggest challenge as?
Chris Jones 26:49
Man? That's a good question. I think I think one of the biggest challenges is mobilizing, mobilizing everyone to go in one direction. Dude. That's the
Lucas Underwood 27:00
best. Yeah. I mean, that's what we're just talking about with Cecil earlier. Right, is that in so many ways, it's it's so I'm gonna use all that mountain words. discombobulated
David Roman 27:14
mountain word.
Lucas Underwood 27:16
Well, if there's been infighting for years, yeah, there's been everybody against everybody else, as opposed to moving forward. Right, as opposed to saying like, hey, like I said, they're really good at finding the problems they're not really good about talking about the solutions. So what what can what can we do as shop owners to start finding that solution? what's your what's your take on it?
Chris Jones 27:42
I think I think good stuff that you guys are doing just just guys coming together, you know, guys and girls coming together and just talking about just having an open forum talk well, what are some of the things that we see that we want to change? What are some of the things that I need to what do I need to change as a person as a shop owner? Like how am I treating my employees? Well, am I doing all my ticking all the boxes on my end before I start pointing the finger, you know, having taking issue with other people or other things within the industry? Am I the model? Yeah, in my modeling success, you know, on my terms and in the eyes of the people that I am here to govern and lead in my shop. Right and I work with, do I look like that before I start pointing fingers? I think it's always I think, to me, it's always I always started inward. That's just my natural bent is very okay. What's what's up with me first
Lucas Underwood 28:26
before I say okay, Extreme Ownership as Yeah,
Chris Jones 28:29
yeah, it's always it's an inward thing. So if my shop if my shop is My shop is off because it's my you know, macro to micro, right. Okay, you know, if if my shop is off and I my whole skew is going to be off to I'm gonna think everybody else's off to Yeah, until I fix what's in within demographics within the My, my position on my thoughts about things start to change and I want to be more of an agent of change or disrupter than I do want to that. I want to be a complainer, right or an objective
David Roman 29:01
well, you bet in your eyes on me.
Lucas Underwood 29:03
I think he was talking about you. complainer and objector
David Roman 29:09
I'm a dissenter.
Lucas Underwood 29:15
No, bro, you complain a lot.
David Roman 29:20
Anyways, anyways, anyways, so one is the survey the new one. You guys are taking? Yeah, responses now.
Chris Jones 29:30
We're currently taking responses for the survey survey. We're closing responses on March 11. We'll be closing that up. And then we'll put the new survey out leaving July as we typically because we'll put that out and then we'll start you know, from March until April May we'll start working with the ration Renshaw star and just taking those nominations. So
Lucas Underwood 29:51
any big news about the event this year?
Chris Jones 29:55
Nothing yet. Nothing, nothing groundbreaking yet. We're kind of putting together we've got our team immediately, we're just looking at, you know who our speakers are going to be what our topics gonna be. We've opened that up this year, which is different to we've kind of done an open format like, hey, just, here's your call for papers, if you want to speak, throw your hat in the ring, tell us what you want to talk about what sort of, or if you don't want to speak, what do you want to hear about what's important to you, that we can find and a lot of speaker with that topic.
Lucas Underwood 30:19
David, what do you want to hear about?
David Roman 30:23
I'm not good at listening to speakers. I get distracted very easily. We just had old conversation about classroom was like, we had a shop owner that loves going to classes and sit down and she sits up front, and she's got her notebook ready, she's ready to learn. I sit in the back and I make it maybe 20 minutes. And then you know what? I gotta go. I just, it has nothing to do with the speaker or anything like that. It's just just cannot listen to anything ever. Without doing something else. Like I gotta have two things going on at once.
Chris Jones 30:57
Yeah. Yeah, it's tough because I sit there and look at the schedule here in America, we have four hour class, that's gotta be you gotta I mean, you have to be engaging to hold some of the tension for that long. Yeah, at the same time, you have to have a great attention span to sit there are a class that love
Lucas Underwood 31:14
this dude's attention span is like no other. You would feel really bad for him if you knew what I did. I wanted to make sure that he had perspective from lots of people in our industry, right? Like, he's new. I've got a lot of friends that I felt like had awesome stories that he could hear. And so I told Dutch to call him Oh, geez, I'm sorry. Eight hours later, sends me a message. He's like, Hey, man, get on the phone for eight hours. This dude's been yelling the whole time.
David Roman 31:48
He doesn't yell. He's very calculating. Very calculated when he speaks. And he goes, Well, how did I think the issue and then it goes on to the four and a half hour diatribe about this. And that, and you're like, oh, man, did you see the video? Justin? Alan, are you familiar? Yes. Justin is awesome. He stands next to Dutch. And he's like, you know, what kind of advice would you give a brand new shop owner, and Dutch contemplates the he gets this look like he's gonna second building up to this and then he, he goes off, but he's like, this is gonna take a minute and Justin's got 90 seconds. Like that's it. Like he's making the 92nd video and you're about to hit the 90 seconds and he's like, okay, let's relive this back here think the point you're trying to make is this this and this. Okay, thanks. So that was it.
Lucas Underwood 32:49
For Dutch, Dutch is awesome.
David Roman 32:52
Dutch is awesome.
Lucas Underwood 32:54
So where's the magazine going over the next couple of years? What's the vision is
Chris Jones 32:57
the vision division this year particularly interested to expand horizons really so that's what we're working on this year just really just it's about just getting people stories out there that just haven't been put out this we're talking about the thing we're talking about just getting the magazine more diverse looking more like the rest of the industry so it looks just like everybody that you see in the industry that's number one. So that's that's the primary goal this year. As far as that the year is beyond that I haven't really sat down and really gone long term with it I just folk I've been focusing on just getting this year just okay, well this year and then of course this year, I want to speak more to other other aspects of the shop. So we're talking to shop owners you know, we've always talked strictly to shoppers for the most part. Yeah, but I've been trying to mix in more stuff with service writers this year service advisors just get putting stuff in there that shoppers can pass over this is a this is something for you in here now. Yeah, do I want the magazine to really feel like it belongs to the entire shop, not just the owner, but everybody in the shop can get something out of the magazines. Yeah, doing that. And then
David Roman 33:51
because you guys have at least on your network you guys have a magazine. That's for the shop owner called shop owner
Chris Jones 33:59
gets this competitive have competed. Oh,
David Roman 34:03
I thought there was only one. No,
Chris Jones 34:05
shop owners are competing about some maris babcox That's all good.
David Roman 34:09
Screw those guys. That's a trash magazine. Anyway, it's a rag. It's a dumpster fire of a rock magazine. Are you friends with that guy to know a gal or whatever? No,
Lucas Underwood 34:22
not that I know.
Chris Jones 34:23
Now we do have we have our service professional which is similar to that
Lucas Underwood 34:26
yeah and then and but now endeavors got technician publications we do.
Chris Jones 34:32
We do we have like Pete sandwiches like tools and stuff like that. So but I was the goal is to create like strategic stuff like I do, like Yeah, strategic and business like type content for the for the technician for the service advisor stuff that they can chew on to
Lucas Underwood 34:46
well, and I do that, like, I'll read the magazine. I'm like, Hey, read this. Like you'll get some perspective out of it. And my people come to me and they bring me the magazine. They're like, Hey, I saw this. What do you think about this right? And so I think it is Good for the whole shop because I think it, you know, you get those little ideas. And that's one of the things I love most about it is the ideas that you get from other shops, seeing how they're doing something or this one little thing they did this one success that they had. Yeah, right, you see it, and it makes a difference for you. Because you may not imitate it. 100%. But it gives you some perspective to go and do something similar in your space. Right, right. What kind of people do you want to talk to? I mean, we got a lot of listeners. Yeah.
Chris Jones 35:31
So yeah, man, I'm looking to talk to more technicians like casino, you'd have been talking about just the value of the value of technicians in the shop. And I just want their perspective. You know, tell me what your journey as a technician has been like, yeah, what are you seeing? How are you feeling about the future? How are you feeling about just the job itself and what it entails? Right, so I'm looking to talk to more technicians talking talking to a service advisor about very similar thing, you know, kind of how they see customer service, how the, how they see the industry, how they see things changing, right, so that we can provide content that that helps them as well, it helps them you know, because invariably, when you help them, you're helping the owner as well, when you're that sort of content that the owner gets to read, it needs to learn to we all get to learn together. But I just want to know, I really want to get a full shop education. Yeah, because I spent the entire last year talking to owners almost exclusively, right now want to talk to other people in the shop and get to know what their what their jobs are, like,
Lucas Underwood 36:24
as you've begun to talk to more and more of those people. Right? Because you have started talking to more of them. You know, you had that owner perspective from everybody for a whole year. Yeah. And then you start getting that other perspective, any takeaways from it's different.
Chris Jones 36:38
It's different, right? It's very different, especially when, you know, talking to some of the people who are in the education sector and what they're seeing and with and just hearing about what's happening with your students, right. And then when the students graduate, they're excited about the industry, they want to go in, and they get into the shop, and it just fits not there for them. Yeah, then all of a sudden, the passion gets lost, because they're stuck doing things that they didn't want to do for longer than they wanted to do it. Right. You know, they're hoping to do this or do that. Of course, everyone has to pay their dues, but it's like, right, for how long? Yeah, and so these kids are getting either burned out with long hours, they're just not doing stuff they want to do, and they want to try new things. And they are they are they're, you know, I'm hearing they're getting caught kind of being like, the person who's shop who's under the underlying, yeah, you know, alright, I'll do the I'll do these repairs out, you do these repairs,
Lucas Underwood 37:27
right? So just nobody else
Chris Jones 37:28
does it. Nobody wants to touch just like, you know, the stuff that and so it's hearing that perspective, has now kind of has my wheels turning like, Okay, well, how can I help as a journalist, like, how can I highlight that improve that without being disparaging cuz we never want to be disparaging? You know, but how do I highlight that in a way that hitch hits you in the heart with it, like, Wow, am I doing that, like it makes you makes you question your processes, it makes you observe and look at your own way of doing things and then improve your processes so that your people succeed, and that you're not an offender of that you're not
Lucas Underwood 38:01
doing right. Well, you know, it's it's kind of like, it's kind of like going to church and yeah, I feel like he's talking to Yeah, that's. That's what David was talking
David Roman 38:13
to you. That's the whole point. That's why would you show up and be like, I got nothing to learn here. Perfect. What No, what are you talking about? It's always I understand
Lucas Underwood 38:24
what you're saying when it feels really
Chris Jones 38:28
pretty. You're saying it looks like my house last night? Right.
David Roman 38:37
Bad analogy. Don't Don't don't validate
Chris Jones 38:43
somebody I mean, that's really the goal is to try to try to help everybody in the industry feel like they belong, right? They don't like that they didn't get into this position that they did. They really were passionate about what to do, and then found out it just wasn't what they want. It was cracked up to be right. Because I mean, you see that happening in other sectors, you know, kids are going into massive amounts of debt to go to college. Yeah, promise to jobs. It's so reverse. Yeah, I'm promising your job before you even go to school. If I go to college, I'm gonna have all this stuff waiting, like, like the land of milk and honey is waiting for me the day I step out of college with my degree, right? It's like that's not that's not the truth. You know that right and but, but, and then you get dejected and they find themselves working at Panera Bread with $150,000 worth of debt. Right? Why?
David Roman 39:26
Why What do you think that even a lot of people say that? Because it's true. I remember hiring a he had a master's degree in English. And I hired him for like a $10 an hour job at the parts store days. Yeah, $10 an hour job and the guy had a master's degree. It's still paying student loans. And he's like, I wanted to be a writer. Okay, then go be a writer. What are you doing here? Why need a job? You're not doing any writing right now? I don't understand. But why do you think the you would think that people would catch On. If not the kids, the kids are going to be idealistic. Well, that's not going to happen to me. I'm Yeah, I'm definitely gonna have a job. But you would think the parents would go, Hey, son, daughter, I'm not sending you to school. And I'm not gonna let you take $150,000 in debt, just to find out that there is no job for you. What to do get a degree in history. Yeah, yeah, history, got to do with a history degree, got
Lucas Underwood 40:26
a degree in history, and then went and got a law degree, while he was working on this law working on his law degree. And now he's managing a shop. Right? And
David Roman 40:36
he's happy managing the shop. Now, he might be supremely talented at running the shop, but what the hell do you spend all that time getting all history degree for? That's he's never gone to us now. You know, he was in the military. So the government paid for it, and that's fine, whatever. But he needed, he needed business class, this was what he needed. At least some financial numbers, the classes that you know, things like that, that would be practical for him getting get that which, you know, he had the idea that he was gonna go be a professor, until he talked to somebody who was a professor and said, it's a nightmare, don't do it. It's, you're not gonna make any money. This is gonna be like, really difficult to get into yada, yada. And so I don't know that you would think that at some point, a parent would stop and their child and say, let's talk about this for a minute. Let's let's talk about maybe Community College where there won't be $150,000 in student loan debts. Let's talk about a two year school. Let's talk about trade school. What is it that you want to do? And what 19 year old knows what the hell they want to do? Right? That's the whole the whole concept of, we need to get the young people in, we're going to start in high school, we're going to start Middle School. What the hell are you talking about? I wanted to be a comic book artist. That's what I wanted to do. Yeah, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to be a comic book artist, just drawing all day long. How I wanted to do, I don't do comic book art. Now. Obviously, that didn't work out. But I if I had gone to, to Boston, Boston School of Art, I think is what it was called. If I had gone to that at $20,000 a year. And I get a degree in in fine arts, like, What the hell am I going to do with that? It wouldn't have served me at all at this point in my life. So I will just been wasted money, wasted time. I don't know, at this point. I'm scrapping the whole young kids screw all of them, they can do whatever they want. We're going after mid to late 20 year olds, that are out of school with their master's in English and history. And they don't know what the hell they're gonna do with their life, because they just realized they wasted their mind their time and money on degrees. And we're gonna have for those kids, and we're gonna go, hey, you need to be a technician, or a service advisor or a shop manager? How do you think that'll work out? How do we get the message out to the 24 to 29 year old?
Lucas Underwood 43:10
I think it would probably be more effective, right? Because we've talked about that, right? Like we've talked about the apprenticeships, right. Like you take these kids, and you give them everything they could walk. Right, you've got great pay, right? Like it's a guaranteed wage scale, it's locked, it goes up at a certain amount. You've got North Carolina, you've got tools, right? So we're providing you tools. You're getting a free two years, two year Associate's degree. And they're actually going to do a Master's of automotive at the community college program. That would be completely free. You get paid time off from the get go. You get a journeyman certificate, journeyman, journeyman, right? You get everything you could ever want. You don't work weekends, you get paid, you come to you go to school, most of the time. You get to work a couple hours a week. They give you a grant, they pay for your books, they give you money to go to school.
David Roman 44:11
There should be a waiting list for that right. There should be there shouldn't be there isn't there isn't? There isn't. And even after they get through the apprentice program, they go work at a company or they some
Lucas Underwood 44:23
that have gone and worked at McDonald's after that. Let's not as much work as that. Right? And you're at it. What you say makes me wonder and maybe we need to ask Jason Rainey this but they've got a ton of Jason Rainey Napa, Vice President of NAPA Auto Care.
David Roman 44:43
I don't know the connections you guys have.
Lucas Underwood 44:46
He's got a ton of apprentices. I wonder if they're older. Because you can be an apprentice at any age. I'm wondering if those people aren't you know, the ones that have come back and says oh, that degree is not done me any good now. Question. Yeah, I mean, I might ask you that. What do you think? I mean, because if they're if, if the young kids aren't going to take the opportunity, or they'll come in, and they'll do it for a year or two and say, I don't want to do that. Well, I mean, what's the point of putting an apprenticeship program in that young man?
Chris Jones 45:17
It's a good question. They're not
David Roman 45:18
seeing in the industry. That's the biggest issue. They're not trying to get in. It's not attracting fresh talent. And they're not even if they do go through the program. They're not staying in there. You can't blame the 18 year old. You can't he's 18. Like, she's 18 They don't know what the hell they want.
Lucas Underwood 45:38
Did you know what you want to when you were 18? I didn't. Are you doing what you thought you'd be doing? Know what you think you're gonna be doing? At 1818
Chris Jones 45:45
I just want to get into high school. I was so burned out. I just want to be out of high school. I mean, honestly, I just wanted to work and stack money. And just, it's funny. I tell the story people like You're kidding, right. And so I want to make money and just, it's cool now to do it. But, you know, back in the 90s, being a drifter was like a bad thing. Right as well. Just, you know, pack my carpet, just go live in different places. Experience stuff. Yeah, get job make money, stay somewhere for a little bit. One of the next city just I just want to experience life at 18. Right, because I've lived in the same house my entire life been around the same people my entire life have hardly left, you know, the state of Virginia my entire life. So I wanted to just have some experiences, right? Teens, I wasn't ready to go back to school. I was so burned out from high school. And then I had an ACL injury at work. I was working at Pepsi Cola, blew out my knee. You know, working on the loading the truck blew up my knee. And then my mom was like, yeah, so tell me about that college. He didn't want to go to.
David Roman 46:42
Yeah,
Chris Jones 46:43
and so I mean, so you're laid up in a cast. And I'm like, an air cast. I'm like, I guess I should just do something. Right. And then I went to community college and realized that it was nothing like high school. Yeah. I'm like, Well, I gotta I have complete control over everything now. Yeah. And so once I once I got to that point, my first my, I was gonna declare an education major. I was going to be a teacher. Alright, you know, because I grew up with an art who was a teacher, I just loved it. Yeah, you know, I'll be a teacher, teach Jim cook some football. And then when I got in there, there was a teacher there. My art history. I took art history, because I love art. I took art history, she's like, you're not going to be a teacher gonna be an artist, you watch. And I had it for two semesters. By the time I was done, she she had me like, are, here's the schools I want you to consider to go to and I want you to pick one of these two schools. And I'm like, Alright, let's go to this one. Yeah. But it was that influence that teacher she saw she saw me but I couldn't see myself. Yeah, I think that's that's what we were talking about changing things. And sometimes it takes an outside perspective, because 18 year old boy, I have no idea who I am. And you're a boy. I've got a handful of ideas and no direction. Right? And so when someone else sees your, your abilities, what you're capable of before you do, yeah, it can point you in a direction. Yeah, that's what happened to me. And all of a sudden, all this creativity burst out of me. I'm like, Oh, yes, you put me in the right thing. Right, you sent me in the right on the right path.
Lucas Underwood 48:02
And so like, what was the what was the first job you got then after that?
Chris Jones 48:06
So I got, here we go. There wasn't like this art degree. of an art degree. Right. And my first job was, I was a graphic designer. Okay, so I started off as a graphic designer. You know, I was working at the Community College of Allegheny County in Pittsburgh. So I was a graphic designer for a bit. And then I moved back to Virginia to work. And that's how I got in contact with journalism. I worked at a newspaper, right as a designer, and they were looking for, you know, for months on end, they couldn't find a sports writer, because the sports editor was like just burning the end of both burning the candle at both ends, doing all this coverage and like having to get like call the coaches and after the games, get all these briefs and he couldn't get on cover. And I just asked him one day, I said, Look, I work the day shift, eight to five as a designer, sports is from, you know, sports is that the night shift from five to midnight. I said, if you want I can try that. See if see if I'm a good fit. And he said, Uh, alright, do it. So I came, you know, finished my shift. One Friday, he sent me off to cover a high school football game, wrote the game story. And he's like, and I came in Monday morning, and they like the publisher wants to see you. And I was like, oh, man, fan came in Monday morning to start my shift to politics. Oh, my gosh, I must have bombed, right. So I sit in the publishers office. His name is Mr. Cohen. Good Mormon, dude, man. He's like, you know, Chris, he said, I've been getting a lot of calls about this article you wrote and I was like, Are you serious? And he's like, yeah, and he said, Yeah, I really want to keep you in the sports department. You've done such a good job. I was like, Oh my gosh.
Lucas Underwood 49:36
I thought you were gonna say something else. Yeah,
Chris Jones 49:38
I totally thought it was gonna be like, don't ever write again, just go back to this. Go back to the Art Department spend your life there, you know, in the art department. And so I started training with my Managing Editor. She taught me AP style taught me all the difference, you know, the nuances of journalism. I worked with her and then off I
Lucas Underwood 49:54
went, That's crazy. That's awesome. Yeah. And so like, I knew there had to be some and sports in there somewhere.
Chris Jones 50:01
Because I was a sports writer and sports editor that was my that was my first to journalism this dude you're
Lucas Underwood 50:05
super passionate about. You talked to him about football and look, I get fired up. No, no, no, no, no. Let me tell you something about this
David Roman 50:17
was your team. Pittsburgh has a really? Oh,
Lucas Underwood 50:24
man. I mean, you have to admit it's not been good recently. It's not necessarily been a good luck but you know,
Chris Jones 50:36
ya know losing season so we'll take that. Yeah, yes, we stay above 500 rhotic. Even if we don't make the playoffs.
David Roman 50:45
Quarterback that's such a need. You guys get a quarterback. You got to be okay.
Chris Jones 50:49
I think I think pick it would be okay. To pick it up. I watched him at Pitt. He played well at Pitt. I watched his first did this year they brought us like we need offensive coordinator. That's what we need is horrible. Yeah. I mean, I mean, terrible offensive coordinator. And that's, that's what we really need.
David Roman 51:03
We just picked up. The Patriots just picked. I don't know. I said we just picked up a former coach from Pittsburgh, Adrian Clem. He was the I think Phil online coach, okay, or something for the for the Steelers. And he got a job at Oregon. And he was like, there was two games left. They were making a playoff push. And he's like, Hey, I just got this job in Oregon. Can I go in there like? Sure. And so he bets like two games before the playoffs? And they made the playoffs? Yeah. So it was a knock on him that like, Hey, what happened here? And I think your head coach had said, No, there was an opportunity for him. I couldn't hold them back. Like what was I supposed to? Just tell them? No, you got to stay here because we're about to make the playoffs? Whatever. Anyway, that's a cool story. Yeah. I think the Sometimes though, what ends up happening is they don't they don't see a path forward. Yeah. Like that. That guy that I, that guy that I hired with the with the masters of English, he could have done the same thing, not as a graphic designer, but he could have gone in as a writer, like, you know, hey, I'm gonna write this little section of the newspaper, or I'm gonna get into this magazine, or there was enough stuff out there that he could. And even now, like, what's it take to get on? substack? They used to do it. Yeah, just get on there. And all you what's your job now is to market your sub stack. And now you start to get national recognition. And you're, you got some spicy takes now, people are paying attention to you, and now they're subscribing. It doesn't take anything, but just the the willpower to do it. So the opportunities out there, but for whatever reason, everybody's like, I got my degree, where's my jobs? Somebody handed me $100,000 a year job. It's like, whoa, whoa, doesn't work that
Chris Jones 52:57
way. It's counterintuitive like that. Nothing works that way in society. I mean, really, when you think about it, nothing works that
David Roman 53:02
way. Yeah. And you're absolutely right. But for whatever reason, these kids are sold that biblical goods, they're like, Hey, if you if you put your head down and go through this four years of school, and get that degree, somebody's gonna hand you 100,000.
Chris Jones 53:16
But you guys were on the keynote. This put us on the keynote this morning. So Ben Newton was saying that he said, when it came when it comes to regrets, like the deathbed regrets, right, he said, you know, 76% of people don't regret the things they did they regret the things he don't do. Yeah. And I think that's, you know, any any talked about just how people don't do the things they want to do? They defer life you keep deferring deferring deferring before long. You're too old to do something to a degree. But I think what it what it boils down to is, he also mentioned it, just this idea that most people that most people are doing what they think other people want them to do. Yeah, they're not doing what they want to do. Yeah. And that's the thing. That's part of the problem. So you're doing this degree thing, because mom and dad want to want you to do it. Because mom and dad want to look good to the neighbors. They're like, Oh, yeah, my kids in such a such a college and bla bla bla, you know, I'll read my editor's note about that matters letter, maybe two months ago, where I, there was a lady on my Facebook page, you know, and she talks about my son's going to see what's going to university blah, blah, blah, blah. And she was boasting and going on and on about her son. And like, I said, but what if that boy told his mother, I want to go to tech school? Yeah, he'd be that excited. Right? We should post that on social media. My son was going to tech school, and I'm so proud.
Lucas Underwood 54:33
Listen, I think that there's two things that I worry about. And one is, is that are we making them promises that we can't keep? Because you know, like, David and I have had some pretty hard conversations about the fact like, Dude, we have some shops that we thought were like legit good people, awesome people shops doing the right thing for the right people at the right time. And we've done some things like send them You know, a technician or we've we've connected them with somebody and later found out like, hey, maybe that wasn't the case. Right? Maybe they weren't doing the right thing. And then on the flip side of that, I mean, we're promising the meet these wages. A lot of texts aren't paid those wages. Right. And, and I can't help but wonder, is the shortage, not even necessarily about what the kids want? But is it possible that some of this technician shortage is because the parents are saying, No, don't do that. Right. Once you say that the kids are doing what the parents they think the parents want them to do? Or the majority of parents just saying, No, I wouldn't go into the skilled trades. Are you crazy?
Chris Jones 55:43
It gets tough an office job. Yeah, don't do hard work.
Lucas Underwood 55:48
Hard work is what makes the world go round.
Chris Jones 55:49
It's funny, because you would think that the attitude would change because of COVID. Because when you start when you start calling drywall contractors to fix holes in your drywall, or you start calling someone to kind of fence or I need, when you start calling these blue collar service workers and they can't get to you, or guys just don't call you back,
Lucas Underwood 56:08
right. And they don't need to give me a bad review. I don't care. They don't care. But
Chris Jones 56:13
you would think that how that feels when you try to go somewhere and get something done. And you can't get it done because they don't have the staff like during COVID Like Frederick COVID We had a toilet leak in my house right upstairs, master bathroom transfer, it leaked, gotten to the floors and just started dripping to the ceiling in the kitchen. Yeah, so we had to call someone to do that. Something that would normally take just you know, a turnaround time, maybe no more than two months, Max. Yeah, they had to go in there, dry it all out, cut everything up. Get it all done after you schedule the appointment. We lived with that hole in our ceiling for almost six months. Holy cow. It took us about a month to get someone to come in and just dry it all out. After that, it took several weeks for someone to come in and do the drywall, the drywall job. Then more weeks and weeks of Okay, now we need someone to do the tile in the kitchen. Yeah, the tile upstairs, then four weeks of when you signed to redo the carpet. I mean, I guess an ordeal of six or so months, that usually is a two month job, right? Because you've
David Roman 57:17
been knocked down a week. I
Chris Jones 57:19
couldn't find any books. You couldn't find anyone to do it. Or you'd have someone come in, they give you an estimate you never hear back from again. Yeah. It felt like we were understaffed. We just can't do the job. Okay. That's I mean, which is, which is it is what it is. But you would think that people would see the value of auto technicians or H back people or plus like you would see the value after going through that.
David Roman 57:39
I don't know. It's hard. Yeah, they don't. You're absolutely right, that she's not going to gloat that, hey, my son's going to tech school, or he wants to, and it becomes societally acceptable in society to just say, Hey, I'm going to school or college you're going to, I don't know what the hell they're gonna do. And but it's better than than saying, I don't know, it's better than saying, Hey, I'm just gonna go drive around the country go hang out in different cities. Like, they still to this day. Look at you cross-eyed. Unless you're like, Oh, I'm gonna be vlogging the whole time. Yeah, right. Okay, well, that's different. But if you're just doing that, just just what the experience is like, that's the age to do it. You do it when you're 1819 years old. You don't have any strings attached. You can live in your car. It's not that big a deal. You don't care. And so you would think that like, yeah, go do that. Who cares? I don't know. I get a little freaked out. Be scared for my kids. You know, this is the world's not Where do you think he did? I know that. Yeah, you make sure you have some kind of protection and then you can defend yourself and I don't wanna be a little freaked out. But that was a conversation we had with Brandon hills. Like my kids walk up to me and they want to play Minecraft all day. That's like okay, let's figure out a way to make money playing Minecraft. And if somebody asks me Hey, will this kid do all the play Minecraft on on TV? On the internet for money? Well, yes, I make great money at it.
Chris Jones 59:12
I feel about a man talk to my boys my fellow tell me when I tell him about you. If college is for you, it's for you. If it's not as bad as trade school to is you can go to fireside because my my son's going to be a firefighter wanna go to college? Okay, let's, let's talk. What's your pathway? Yeah. Let's start with you being a junior firefighter. When do we talk to the fire? It's like, give us get a plan together. Yes. Get you where you need to go. Right. If college isn't your thing. That's totally fine. I don't. I don't mind. Yeah. So that's something that's the parents perspective needs to be it's like, it's not my life to live. Yeah, I don't have to live with the decisions my children make. I've done my job of getting the training. I've got them out of the house. They're good people. They're adjusted,
Lucas Underwood 59:46
given that. given them the morals given them the structure.
David Roman 59:51
I think the only the only step, the only extra step I intend on on providing my kids is rather than trying to push them into something specific I want to be able to just like that teacher that for you that this is a very creative kid. And that creativity needs to come out. Right. And for her, it was art school. But then it turned into writing, and telling people stories. That's an outlet of creativity. But she saw that in you, yeah, I want to be able to identify that my kids, I want to be able to see that my kids have a talent for XYZ. Now, let's figure out what will make them happy doing that, and fulfilling their talent and letting that whatever that is that's inside of them out. I think that's what's lacking most of the time, is that you're you're looking for a pathway. You're trying to see what it is that they want to do. Because you're absolutely right. It's not your life to live. But it's more I think every parent wants their child to do exceptionally well. Yeah. I think that sometimes the parents don't have the ability or the I don't know the vision to look at options around whatever that happens to be. You know, I mentioned the Mr. Beast you're familiar with Mr. Beast. Okay, so you've heard him tell the story about his mom not wanting it she wanted him to go to college. Meanwhile, he's trying to build a YouTube channel Yeah, he's the biggest YouTube channel in the world. And he has a I think it's nine figures now business Yeah. Yep. You know, almost 100 million plus business at 24 at 24 years old for it is a genius with the YouTube algorithm and whole thing What if she had pushed them and said no, you gotta go to college or I'm gonna kick out this that and the other that's what ended up happening. He tried to go to college because his mom told him Hey, if you don't go I'm gonna end up getting out of the house and he's like, I guess I gotta go. That was not the right move at all. Yeah, yeah, rather in her mind the only pathway towards success was college that's it. There's no other pathway you're gonna be a bomb otherwise, that's not the case at all. Especially now
Chris Jones 1:02:00
no now when you can go to now when you go to the Chick fil A drive thru and you kind of pull around the corner is like now hiring 1825 An hour like dude, I worked for for 20 It's crazy. Jay Shetty. No, Jay Shetty. You know Jay Shetty. Right? Yeah. He was talking on a podcast. He was saying, you know, with his family. He's the, you know, he's an Indian. So it's like, of course, the success level is here. Yeah. And he said, you know, for my family. He said, These are my options growing up Doctor lawyer failure. And he said, You know, when he decided to become a monk, his mom was like, You're a failure. And he said, even now as a millionaire's, I'm a millionaire. I'm a speaker. I'm a coach. I've got books, my best seller. My mom still thinks failure. Yeah, she still thinks failure because I did become a doctor or a lawyer. Because in her mind, that's all that was the only two pathways to success. And he said, she just and she, she can't wrap her mind around that.
Lucas Underwood 1:02:54
I think of the makes me think of the I can't remember which motivational speaker it was who was talking about the white picket fence, you remember that? And he he's talking about? He's talking about an extremely successful woman. Yeah. And, and later, I think he finally released who it was, or somehow got out who it was, but he said, she's a multimillionaire, right. She's known around the world. She has every layer of fame, every layer of success that you can imagine. She's got this beautiful home, multi bedroom, big white picket fence, beautiful yard. Husband, every the ideal life of what anybody would consider an ideal life, right? Nothing to walk for. And all of her friends knew this motivational speaker. And they said, please come talk to her were worried she's suicidal. And he said to her worried she suicidal, she's so depressed. And he said, I'll come talk to her. But I mean, what does she have to be depressed about my goodness, like? And he said, I went, I talked to her. And we had meeting after meeting after meeting, she was sad, and she was down and she was out, nothing was going to be okay. So I just could not get through to her. And he said, finally, I said, What? What is it that your definition of success? What is it that you would consider success for yourself? And she said, I always shared a dream with my mother, and my loved ones, that I would have this beautiful house on a hill with a big green yard, exactly like this one. And that I would have a white picket fence, and I would have four children. But I was told that I can't have children. And he said, it was one of the most heartbreaking things he ever had to do was spend the next next month with her working through, you have to change your expectations of what success is, I understand you set this as your success, but it's not gonna happen. And that sucks. It's sad. It's not fair, but it doesn't matter. Because all we can do is we can shift what your definition of success is, or you're going to be unhappy no matter what, right? And there's no reason to make yourself unhappy if we don't have to, let's figure out a solution. And so they worked through the adoption process, she was able to adopt children. And she openly and I thought it was super powerful that she openly admitted that it did not completely fill that need that her child would fill, but that it helped her get past that move. And I think sometimes we have to redefine what success is in our hands, whether it's for our children, whether it's for ourselves, sometimes you got to back up a little bit and say, You know what? Maybe that success is not possible. Maybe that success is not what I've defined it as. Yeah,
Chris Jones 1:06:03
it's a story. But yeah, that's That's true. Yeah, that's true.
David Roman 1:06:07
To be an all winner. I don't want to happen. Possible.
Lucas Underwood 1:06:13
Good. Yeah. Good episode, sir.
Chris Jones 1:06:16
It's fun.