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The Sum of All Wisdom is built on a simple idea: music IS the sum of all wisdom.
More than a podcast, The Sum of All Wisdom is a community and resource platform dedicated to exploring music as a way of knowing. Music is humanity's oldest way of knowing and one of our best technologies for making meaning, and through long-form conversations with musicians, producers, writers, and cultural thinkers—along with performances, essays, and educational resources—we investigate the creative life and what it teaches us about memory, identity, creativity, community, and the human condition.
Whether you're a musician, artist, scholar, or simply someone who loves music and believes it matters, The Sum of All Wisdom is an invitation to listen more deeply: to great music, to the people who make it, and to the wisdom gained through a life devoted to music and musical worlds.
Because music is more than entertainment. It is one of humanity's most ancient ways of understanding the universe and our place in it.
Scott Catey (00:00)
first of all, want to say thanks, a million for joining today, Rich.
Rich Mangicaro (00:03)
Yeah.
Scott Catey (00:03)
It's really wonderful to have you. I've done some show prep research. To get a little background on you, I think you've had an amazing career. can't wait to talk about it. So I really appreciate you being here.
Rich Mangicaro (00:14)
Thanks for having me.
Scott Catey (00:16)
Yeah, of course, Jeff Tripoli really can't say enough good things about you. I had a great conversation with him.
Continuing the friendly conversation kind of thing. that'll be it's where Yeah,
Rich Mangicaro (00:25)
It was a g it was a nice interview. Yeah.
Scott Catey (00:27)
good. thanks.
Jeff's all right. He's an interesting cat. I like him
Rich Mangicaro (00:31)
Yeah, it's funny how I know that guy. You know, I didn't know him when I lived back there. I'm from there. And he's much younger than I am. And I met him out you know, from out here through mutual friends of mine that are drummers out here that told me about him. They said, You gotta meet him and I said, okay. Yeah, I didn't know about him.
But very creative cat. Yeah.
Scott Catey (00:52)
He really is, yeah.
The wasabi can, was
Rich Mangicaro (00:57)
Yeah.
Scott Catey (00:58)
wasabi string board that he built, I think that's the sound on that thing just knocks me out. I love it.
Rich Mangicaro (01:01)
Yeah. I
know. It's fun. It's fun creating all that stuff. We we never grow up as percussionists.
Scott Catey (01:11)
That's probably a good thing for the rest of us, I think. Tell
Rich Mangicaro (01:14)
Yeah.
Scott Catey (01:15)
me, Rich, from Syracuse, how did you get started in drumming?
Rich Mangicaro (01:22)
Well, it's pretty typical of people around my age group 'cause actually I you know, my inspiration really originally was two things, the Lucy Show and the Beatles on Ed Sullivan. So both of those things. you know, I mean I used to watch the Lucy show with my p folks and you know, the Cuban ensemble with the drums and all the all the Afro Cuban stuff. turned me on and then I saw Ringo on Ed Sullivan, that was it.
you know, in sixty four or whenever that was. But that was it. That's when I just decided, okay, that's what I wanna do. So I started way back then. I started, you like seven years old or six years old, something like that.
Scott Catey (02:01)
first instrument, how did you, what started it for you?
Rich Mangicaro (02:06)
well, I think the first I think my mom and dad got me a p set of like toy bongos, but you know, it was school, you know, high junior high school, grade school music programs. That's how it started. You know. So
Scott Catey (02:24)
You pester your old man for a
drum kit?
Rich Mangicaro (02:27)
Yeah.
Well, my father is was a big influence on me too. My father was a fine artist. He was a painter and award winning painter in my town and did art shows all the time and when I was growing up he was always listening to jazz. So he had an art studio downstairs in in the basement and he was playing Brubeck or Miles Davis or whoever he was playing when he was working and I was constantly listening to that. So when I was, you know, a kid, they got me a my first drum kit.
when I was very young. So then I that's when my first influence was probably, you know, musically from you know, the Beatles and also from listening to jazz music and Afro Cuban music.
Scott Catey (03:05)
it seems to me that still sort of informs your sound. How is all of that come forward for you into your, what you're doing currently?
Rich Mangicaro (03:14)
Well, you know, I think y you know, mainly it was drum kit and then in in the different school bands and stuff until I went through college. but I was playing drum kit mostly in my younger days in bands and stuff like that. in college I started learning more of the all around percussion. I studied classical percussion at
I started at a community college and then I went to Syracuse University and the guy who taught me at Syracuse was a big influence on me. He was
He was Hispanic and he was able to, you know, turn me on to how to properly play congas and hand
Scott Catey (03:54)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (03:55)
drums. And then I then I I didn't finish my schooling at SU. I I got a job going on the road playing music. So I kind of decided to leave college. And then I went back years later, in like the mid eighties and finished my music degree at a school in Potsdam, New York called the Crane School of Music. And
Scott Catey (04:15)
Hmm.
Rich Mangicaro (04:15)
my teacher there was this guy named Jim Peterzack, who was also a big
influence on me and he he he worked with me a lot on all kinds of like mallet keyboard stuff and classical percussion. and that's where I got my degree in music performance and then I moved back I moved out here after that. So
Scott Catey (04:36)
When you were gigging just out of when you'd left college, what kind of work were you doing? Who were you gigging with? What kind of rock?
Rich Mangicaro (04:41)
Mostly cover
cover stuff, you know, like everybody does, you know, cover top forty. I
Scott Catey (04:45)
Yeah, yeah.
Rich Mangicaro (04:47)
got into a band actually that did a bunch of like for a a bunch of years I was traveling doing like hotel lounges but playing, you know, cover music all over the northeast.
Scott Catey (05:01)
Do you remember your first show in front of people? Are you a guy that gets stage fright? Is it just like whatever I'm gonna play, this is what I love to do? How's it worked for you?
Rich Mangicaro (05:11)
No, I was never wanted to really get stage fright, but I my first live in front of people performance was in high school when I was I was in this band. It was around the same time that Happy Days aired on TV and I put a band together with friends called Big Rocky and the Rollers and we were kinda like Sha Na Na So
we did old
Scott Catey (05:30)
You
Rich Mangicaro (05:31)
we did oldies and we ended up you know, like playing high school dances and that that was
Scott Catey (05:35)
Yeah.
Rich Mangicaro (05:36)
kind of like the first the first performances. But we, you know, we dressed up and we did the whole Sha Na Na thing
Which was a lot of fun. Uh-huh. Yeah.
Scott Catey (05:43)
know, Sha Na Na was one of my favorites. We had vinyl back when I was a kid. My parents
had a very eclectic record collection. Sha Na Na was one of the live performers at, I think, Cornell University. they're just, you know, they are who they are. But I love that stuff. Anyway, it's cool to know that you were doing that kind of thing and with the get up, right? That's fun.
Rich Mangicaro (06:06)
Well, that was interesting time 'cause I was pretty young at the time, but but ended up ended up lasting for a little while into my early college, my first year of college, and one of the things that came across to us was we were playing a bunch of shows in clubs at that time too, around upstate New York and we had this opportunity to open for The Drifters and
Scott Catey (06:28)
wow.
Rich Mangicaro (06:28)
and they heard me and they hired me to play a bunch of shows with them. So that was my first like
you wanna call it a big gig, you know, I was very young, I was like eighteen or something, but I was playing with two of the original members of the Drifters at that time and I was the only white guy in that and they had the original guitar player. That was a big good learning thing for me.
Scott Catey (06:49)
bet.
That seems like 18, it's The Drifters I've had to feel like I've kind of hit some kind of big time here. How do you remember what was going through your head when you got that invite?
Rich Mangicaro (07:01)
I was pretty nervous, but at the same time it was just coup not that many, like two or three local things around upstate New York and some clubs and you know, I already kinda knew their music because we were kinda playing that stuff. So, it was a good good it was a good schooling for me. So
Scott Catey (07:23)
Tell me what you
learned, Rich. How did you learn from those guys?
Rich Mangicaro (07:26)
I think mainly it was more about, you know, groove, you know, like playing that kind of music, it was kinda like borderline R and B borderline pop music and learning how to kinda play
with guys like that that have been doing it for so long. So they they kind of feel the music a little differently than somebody who's younger. A little bit more laid back. And that was a that was a good lesson for me. You know, not to be 'cause I I I was playing a lot of jazz f fusion and pop and progressive rock at that time too, because I was
Scott Catey (07:58)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (07:59)
influenced by bands like Yes and
Genesis and stuff like that.
Scott Catey (08:04)
Yeah
Rich Mangicaro (08:04)
So a little bit more on the progressive side, ELP,
and I but I also loved R and B a lot and I I saw actually one of the one of the big, big influences on me was when I was I think I was it was nineteen sixty nine, I saw Steppenwolf as a headliner and Sly and the Family Stone opened
And
they were kind of unknown at that point. I think their first hit was just out. I think Dance to the Music just came out. And
Scott Catey (08:28)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (08:29)
that and I was much more into Sly and the Family Stone than I was Steppenwolf after that show. After that show it changed me and I really kind of dug into more R and B music, you know? That's w yeah. man. They were so ahead
Scott Catey (08:41)
I mean, what a performance, right? Those guys were something. Yeah.
Rich Mangicaro (08:45)
of their time.
Scott Catey (08:47)
Totally. Yeah.
Rich Mangicaro (08:48)
So
ahead of their time. And matter of fact, I know, I can tell you about this a little later, but full circle of my life and my c weird career, I ended up years later befriending the original drummer for Sly, and he's a good friend of mine now, and he came to one of my shows when I was on the road with Joe Walsh. So it was the very v very much full circle where I all of a sudden he's sitting behind me and I was able to tell him my story about man, I saw you when I was eleven or
Yeah, it's pretty great.
Scott Catey (09:18)
How about
that? That's good. That's like a very small world kind of musician thing. That's awesome.
Rich Mangicaro (09:23)
Unbelievable. Unbelievable, yeah.
Scott Catey (09:28)
as I was looking through your Your your discography especially but also other stuff on your website. I noticed one of the Posts that were there you had a
Colleague talking about how he loves your percussion theme on your third album and how it tells such a great musical story I think that's really evocative me a lot of people that I know who are into music are into melody or lyrics and Rhythm just seems to kind of be there and they don't really think about it so this is one of the things that talking with Jeff and now with you and
Kalani Das has agreed to
come on the show. and Butch Norton, right?
Rich Mangicaro (10:08)
yeah. Great. He's a good f
Scott Catey (10:11)
So there's, I'm learning so much from guys who play drums and do percussion. This is an amazing opportunity for me to sort of help other people who might not understand what, you know, what's rhythm, what's tempo, why does it all matter? And how do you tell the story with drums? So that's a long sort of intro to get to the point of asking the question, how do you tell a story?
through drumming, through percussion.
Rich Mangicaro (10:41)
You know, I mean, if you're referring to my original music, my original music, you know, doesn't come it doesn't always come from drums and percussion first. A lot of times it comes from a melody in my
Scott Catey (10:54)
Mmm. Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (10:56)
head and I'll start on piano. s more specifically on that third album than the first two records. I was really more
more keyed into melodic sense and starting starting something melodic and then building on it. So i on the third record you could definitely hear that because th it's a very melodic album.
more thematic than the first two. The first two records are more all over the place genre wise.
Scott Catey (11:24)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (11:24)
Whereas the third record is it has more continuity and more theme to it, I think. And I think that's just because I got better, you know. I I
Scott Catey (11:31)
Yeah.
Rich Mangicaro (11:32)
did this is my first record I released in 2018 and prior to that I had never done this before. I was always a side man, you know, playing with other people and I had a lot of melodies in my head and I played a lot of piano on my own. Never the piano's my writing instrument. It's not really my
performing instrument and keyboards,
Scott Catey (11:50)
I see.
Rich Mangicaro (11:51)
but I use it for creating and I think after in 2016 after Glenn Frey passed away and I stopped traveling on the road, I kind of started thinking along the lines of I want to do my own records, you know. And I think
Scott Catey (12:05)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (12:05)
that's where that all started from. But a lot of my stuff comes from I had an idea in my head melodically and I'll play a piano part and then it'll build into some sort of a piece of music and then I'll build on it with percussion and drums.
Sometimes a song will start out with something from drums, like some sort of a groove or a pattern, and
Scott Catey (12:25)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (12:26)
then I'll think of stuff to play over it. there's a few songs on my first album that started like that. But I think most of the third album started with me playing piano improv. A lot of it's improvisation that builds into a song too, and then I layer stuff.
Scott Catey (12:42)
Hmm.
Rich Mangicaro (12:42)
So
Scott Catey (12:44)
I like on the third album, you have Birdsong interspersed
Rich Mangicaro (12:47)
Yeah.
Scott Catey (12:47)
on a couple of tens. And I think that really accentuates the sound and the like it made for me. It's very, it feels like a very introspective album that takes me inside and gets me.
Rich Mangicaro (12:59)
It was that. I I wrote
that I wrote that during COVID i it by myself a lot. You
Scott Catey (13:04)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (13:04)
know, late at night my wife went to bed and I just started playing keyboards and piano and coming up with ideas. It was a it was a it was as l as as you know, it was a such an emotional
Time,
you know, so that some of the titles on the album you you can see. Actually the second album too. The second and third album were both created during the Covid era and it was like there's a lot of songs that reflect you know what we were feeling and going through. Hope we never go through that again. But it was a good creative time.
Scott Catey (13:36)
it was.
Oddly, right? It's sort of oxymoron, that kind of thing. What else changed for you in terms of the pandemic? How has that affected your career during those years?
Rich Mangicaro (13:49)
Interestingly I you know, I was not playing live for a long time. I i it just
Scott Catey (13:53)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (13:53)
dried up for for me. and just in the past two years it's it's come back and I'm busy again. But it was pretty quiet for a long time.
Scott Catey (14:02)
Hmm.
Rich Mangicaro (14:03)
You know. there was a few things that I would take and there w you know, early in the pandemic I got some offers that I d just turned down 'cause I didn't want to go on an airplane or I didn't want to be around
You know, there were certain people in certain bands that didn't believe in vaccinations and stuff like that and I didn't want to be around those those people because I didn't want to bring any any sickness home to my family. So I didn't take those jobs if it was unless everybody was on board with being really careful. But as it you know, as the whole situation progressed and got better and better and
I started getting a few more calls and now it's back to kinda where it was before. Although I'm not really on the road. I'm doing mostly local live stuff and recording now.
Scott Catey (14:43)
Mm.
Rich Mangicaro (14:44)
I'm not doing too many road things anymore. You know, it's mostly in town.
Scott Catey (14:51)
Being on the road seems like a hard life in its way. Is it better not to be on the road to be playing local?
Rich Mangicaro (14:56)
I don't know if it's better. I mean if it depends on the level. I mean I was very fortunate to play at the level that I was playing and that when you're playing with those types of artists you're treated really well and you travel well and it's beautiful and you get spoiled. I th at my age now I I don't really wanna just hop in a van and and guerilla tour, you know. I don't think I don't think that's in my cards anymore. And even flying now is kind of a drag unless you're, you know, able to pl fly comfortably, but and I did get spoiled honestly, but
But yeah, I mean you know I mean the last thing that I got that was you know, at that level I I auditioned for Chris Isaac a few years ago and
They flew me out to Nashville and we played together for a few hours and it was it w it went great and that I thought was gonna come my way and then they decided at the at the end of that whole process that they weren't gonna add percussion to it, so I didn't do it. But that was a interesting experience. Really nice guy. Nice guy, great band. That was really fun. It was a nice experience.
Scott Catey (15:58)
Yeah, and being
in Nashville, that's sort of like going home, isn't it? To be in Music City.
Rich Mangicaro (16:04)
It's
a great town. I spent a lot of time there actually because along with being a musician I I you know, you've probably seen in my resume that I do artist relations for various percussion brands and at the time I was going to Nashville every year for this one brand that I was working with. I don't work for them now But so that brought me there every year, which was great. It was always really fun. You know, and I have played there only a couple of times in my career. I haven't played Nashville very often. But
Yeah, it's a g it's a cool town.
Scott Catey (16:36)
Tell me about artist relations, Rich. This is a thing that I think most of the people who tune into this podcast probably don't know much about it. What does it mean? What do you do as an artist relations guy?
Rich Mangicaro (16:49)
the best way that I can describe this is imagine the guy who works for Nike.
And he's between Nike and Michael Jordan. He's the guy that handles Michael Jordan account, right?
Scott Catey (17:02)
Hmm.
Rich Mangicaro (17:03)
So he makes sure that Michael Jordan gets his instrument his his shoes or his clothing and he also organizes and works on marketing and promotions with Michael's name and likeness. That's what I do for same thing. I do the same th except for much smaller budgets than the sports
Scott Catey (17:21)
Mm.
Rich Mangicaro (17:22)
industry. But that's what I do for the percussion industry. So I've been doing this
I did it for Paiste Symbols, which is a Swiss company for twenty years. And then I took some time off and then I started working for the company that I'm working for now, which is a percussion brand called Gonbops, which is
one of the it's one of the if not the oldest percussion Afro Cuban percussion brands in the United States.
Scott Catey (17:46)
Hmm.
Rich Mangicaro (17:47)
So that's that's who I've been working with for now for the past fifteen years. And basically, you know, any of the signed endorsees, like a if you see like Jeff like a a guitar player like Eric Clapton, right? Or whoever has a endorsement relationship with Fender, let's say. Same thing in our industry. So signed endorsees
will have a relationship with us. We provide instruments to them either at a discount or free depending on their notoriety and their influence. And they go through me to get their instruments and I work on advertising and I host their podcast. I created and host a podcast called the The Percussion Loft. So I've got about twenty episodes of different percussionists that we interview. So I do that as well. I I edit all their videos and I create videos and edit videos for them for
product stuff and that kind of thing. But
Scott Catey (18:40)
Interesting.
Rich Mangicaro (18:41)
it's mainly mainly making sure they get what they need when they need it, give them advice on the products. And I also I'm in involved and very heavily involved with designing instruments and helping coming up with ideas and seeing that to fruition too.
Scott Catey (18:57)
So, that's interesting, Rich. How does it happen that new instruments come out of a shop like that? What's the process for innovation?
Rich Mangicaro (19:08)
You know, with it depends on it depends on what we what we have and don't have, like it might be a s necessity.
Scott Catey (19:14)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (19:14)
Or it might be something that we already have that we want to make a different version of, something like that. You know, we have a very sm we don't have a very big offering of instruments with this company, Gonbops. It's small and small and mighty and very authentic. And at this point there's only a few things that's made in North America. So we have some drums that are that come out of Peru that we design and then they make in Peru. And then a bunch of our drums come out of Thailand. There's an amazing factory in Thailand that makes very authentic Afro
Cuban instruments and then Taiwan as well for a lot of our what we call our hardware, which is all our metallic stands and that kind of stuff and bells and tambourines. That comes from Taiwan. So that part of my job is meeting with them on a regular basis to discuss design concepts and and then
get feedback from the artists that we have. We haven't like a a few artists that are kind of like an advisory board that give us feedback on something we're working on.
Scott Catey (20:13)
Mm-hmm.
Rich Mangicaro (20:14)
And and then we I help I help translate their their feedback, their needs to the manufacturers and then we come up with an idea and then they send us samples and it's a lot of back and forth kind of thing.
Scott Catey (20:27)
It sounds like a lot of relationship work.
Rich Mangicaro (20:30)
Yeah.
Scott Catey (20:30)
Yeah, interesting stuff that. Tell me, Rich, what is the average, if you could speak to people who are not sort of in the drumming world, who are not paying attention to what drummers do specifically, how should they listen? What is it that they don't understand about what drummers bring and percussionists bring to the music that they enjoy?
Rich Mangicaro (20:52)
Hm. times now are quite different than they were when I was starting out. Because now we have a YouTube generation. We have, you know, basically everybody's online learning things or or picking up something that inspires them and trying to do it. We didn't have that. So we were more
You know, we were more one on one with teachers and friends and spending a lot of in person time with people and listening to music, listening to records, listening to
Scott Catey (21:21)
Mm, mm.
Rich Mangicaro (21:22)
recordings and trying to learn from that, right? I think a lot of stuff that young players listen to or watch now is all basically off of YouTube. You know? I mean, the industry of buying music is as you know, it's quite
nil.
I mean, you know,
Scott Catey (21:42)
Yeah, it's collapsed.
Rich Mangicaro (21:43)
we have a Spotify mentality where people don't most of the young people I talk to do not even own a C D player, record player, nothing. They
Scott Catey (21:54)
Mm.
Rich Mangicaro (21:54)
listen to their music on a computer with a space bar and a lot of them don't even have headphones. It's very sad to me.
It's a very difficult pr thing for us creative artists when we're 'cause I still pr print C Ds, you know. I know guys
Scott Catey (22:08)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (22:08)
that that make albums too and and I still have an album collection, you know, L Ps, but
I I'm old school. I don't feel like the project is finished until it's physical in my hand with a C D in
Scott Catey (22:20)
Mm-hmm.
Rich Mangicaro (22:21)
my hand or and you know, some people still buy C D's and you you give out at shows and stuff like that. a lot of times they'll take the C they'll buy the C D and then they'll listen to it online anyway, 'cause they don't have a C D player and and the aut the
Scott Catey (22:33)
Right.
Rich Mangicaro (22:34)
auto industry doesn't have, you know, C D players in the cars. It's it's actually pretty awful for us as creative artists that you can't buy music. people don't think about buying music. You know what I mean? They they could
Scott Catey (22:45)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Rich Mangicaro (22:46)
They think about obtaining music through streaming services. They pay a monthly fee and they get anything they want. And I get it. It's great. I still do it too. You know. I don't have anything on Spotify. I removed all my music from Spotify. I don't
Scott Catey (23:01)
Mm.
Rich Mangicaro (23:02)
I don't want to support that company. But for my own, you know, personal reasons. But
Scott Catey (23:08)
Mm-hmm.
Rich Mangicaro (23:09)
I still have my music on YouTube Music and Apple and all the other streaming services.
But
I think that it's kind of a disservice to th what we do as composers and musicians, that people aren't hearing the music the way it's supposed to be heard.
Scott Catey (23:22)
Mm-hmm.
Rich Mangicaro (23:23)
And they're not supporting us by buying our music, you know. Because if you think about how much their people spend for a streaming service, you know, they're spending ten dollars a month or whatever and they get whatever they want. And how that trickles down to us who create the music is
virtually not even pennies. You
Scott Catey (23:44)
Mm-hmm.
Rich Mangicaro (23:44)
know, it's terrible. So
Scott Catey (23:48)
Even artists who have hundreds of thousands or even millions of streams on Spotify earn those same pennies.
Rich Mangicaro (23:56)
Yeah, I mean
y right, you have to you have to get millions and millions of streams on any of those services in order to see anything somewhat reasonable. And even when I say somewhat reasonable, if you're lucky if you can get a few thousand or three thousand or ten thousand dollars, if you're getting millions and millions of streams and those th those of us that are independent artists are never gonna see that. So
Scott Catey (24:21)
Is there a, I've talked with a number of folks who have the same experience, right? mean, almost everybody I've had on the podcast so far have been in this space of the streaming thing just doesn't work for any of us.
It's a whole lot of folks who are having the same experience. And I wonder if it feels to me like there's a pushback to Spotify, right? You're pulling it off. Other people I know are pulling it off, pulling your music off of that service. What's
Rich Mangicaro (24:50)
Yeah.
Scott Catey (24:51)
the... So there's two questions I think that I want to ask you. One is, what's the future of streaming look like? That's likely not to go away. So what does that look like, do you think? And what does the future of physical products look like?
for music.
Rich Mangicaro (25:07)
I
wish I could answer that. I I don't know. I mean yeah, I don't think streaming is going away. I think it's something that has become way too convenient and easy to
Scott Catey (25:17)
Mm.
Rich Mangicaro (25:18)
be eliminated. It's not going to. But I think that there's a few companies that have done a big disservice by their decision politically.
And a lot of us that are in in the creative fields may lean a little bit more left, if you will. And some of these big tech companies have have have kind of dove into the whole political arena on the right side and and that has caused a lot of us to say, I don't wanna support that anymore. So,
Scott Catey (25:44)
Mm-hmm.
Rich Mangicaro (25:44)
I mean, P Spotify's one of those and
other companies, you know. I think that we'll we'll see a turnaround, you know, in a few years probably. And, you know, the tech companies are always gonna do what the best what's best for their shareholders. So, you know, it's that's just a reality, you know. I mean right now that could be good for their shareholders the way things are. But it could change, you know, but it caused a lot of us specifically to pull off of Spotify. And Apple's not that much better. But
Scott Catey (26:15)
Mm.
Rich Mangicaro (26:18)
it's almost a necessity for us to have music somewhere streaming 'cause it's kind of our radio now.
Scott Catey (26:22)
Mm-hmm.
Rich Mangicaro (26:23)
You know, where stuff is gonna get heard, you know. But I you know, also because my partner and I, Jonathan Clark is my writing partner, composing and producing and engineering partner who
was in Glenn Frey's band with me for fifteen years, an extremely talented guy here in Los Angeles. He's now the bass player for Dwight Yoakum. He's been with Dwight
Scott Catey (26:43)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (26:44)
for quite a while. But he and I have created a lot of things together and produced together a lot. We're working on a new project together right now. And Jonathan and I have
written a bunch of songs for television and film and commercial stuff. So we've got about forty tracks being distributed around the world right now for small little T V placement and commercial placement stuff. So we see a little bit of money coming in that through our through ASCAP and BMI or whoever he's with. I can't
Scott Catey (27:14)
Mm.
Rich Mangicaro (27:14)
remember but I'm with Ascap. So that's really nice to see the mailbox money coming in when I'm not doing anything and I've put a lot of work into that, creating these forty songs and
that has drawn attention to my original music as well. So
Scott Catey (27:29)
Mmm. Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (27:31)
I've seen a little bit of money coming in through through that kind of stuff as well. So I'm I'm glad I did that. But you know, th this that kind of stuff for television and commercial and all that is all s short burst pieces, like little two minute cues that are specific for the needs of that world, you know.
But
but I that has helped that's helped draw attention to my original records, I think, a little bit.
Scott Catey (27:57)
that the television aspect is called underscore music. Is that, is that right?
Rich Mangicaro (28:01)
Yeah, underscore. Right.
Scott Catey (28:03)
And is that, how does that work? Are you commissioned for that? Do they say this is the layout of what we're trying to get to when you just produce something
Rich Mangicaro (28:11)
Yeah.
Scott Catey (28:12)
and there's back and forth? How do you actually produce that kind of music?
Rich Mangicaro (28:15)
Yeah, they came to us. There's one company that we distribute we get distributed by and they came to us and said, We need we need ten songs in a in a like action sports genre and then we did that and then he said that we need we need ten songs more orchestral pop. Okay, so we did that. we need ten songs for crime drama, a thriller, so we did that. And then we did another one that was more
Yeah, another more pop thing, you know. So there was there's specifics that they wanted and they gave us some examples of s of music that they wanted and then we wrote with that in mind. So it's cool. It
Scott Catey (28:53)
Pretty interesting.
Rich Mangicaro (28:54)
was I mean, we don't get paid up front. That's the thing. It's it's a lot of spec. So
Scott Catey (28:57)
Yeah. Yeah.
Rich Mangicaro (28:58)
it's a lot of work for no money. And you get paid in the back end. You know, and then the agreement is that if it gets placed somewhere then you're gonna see
you know, some shares from that. But it's not a lot of money. It's it's the only way to really do well with that if I we were doing hundreds and hundreds of tracks. But both both myself and Jonathan don't have the time to just take and just do that 'cause we're doing other things. Since you're not getting paid up front you gotta you gotta just hope you get and it takes a couple of years. I mean it took by the time we got everything placed and got it out there, it's been a couple of years until we started seeing money come in.
But it can come in from anywhere. I mean we got placements all over in different countries all over the world. In their, you know, just small little bits and pieces here that get pieced together and then you get some kind of money, you know. But it's fun to look at your statement, you see Belgium, Germany, you know, wherever, you know, and it's at a T V
Scott Catey (29:50)
Right. Yeah.
Rich Mangicaro (29:52)
T V show in Portugal, you know, or that's fun.
Scott Catey (29:55)
Yeah.
You guys do all the composing and all the instruments yourselves? Do you play it yourselves or do you commission somebody to play it for you? How do you?
Rich Mangicaro (30:03)
We
do we d we did everything. So I did keyboards, drums, percussion, and Jonathan played all the guitars and keyboards and and did it all ourselves, engineered, produced it. Yeah. It's it's a good duo. He's he's an Ace he's a si secret weapon in Los Angeles, this guy.
Scott Catey (30:18)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (30:19)
Yeah, he'd be an interesting interview for you. He's he's he's got a very interesting career.
Scott Catey (30:24)
But you've
had similarly a hell of a career, right? So Glenn Frey, The Tubes, Venice.
Rich Mangicaro (30:33)
Mm-hmm.
Scott Catey (30:34)
Joe Walsh, think, you've played with a bunch of the bigs. Jeff Porcaro and your mentor was his dad, Joe, right? So you've been
Rich Mangicaro (30:43)
Right, that's right, that's right.
Scott Catey (30:44)
all around all kinds of interesting people.
Let's talk a little bit about your career. How has working in these areas since from the Drifters to, know, Glenn Frey, for instance, what do you, how have they all helped you develop as a musician?
Rich Mangicaro (31:02)
I think with any situation like that, if you're playing with people that are better than you, you're going to improve.
Scott Catey (31:07)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (31:07)
You know? And Glenn I mean, really, Glenn was the first real big gig for me. I was playing with this great band you mentioned called Venice. They're a fantastic band from Los Angeles that I've been kinda on and off playing with them, still do, for almost thirty years now. These guys,
are some of the best singer songwriters I've ever heard and David Crosby used to quote them as his favorite vocalists in America and used to use them
Scott Catey (31:36)
Mmm. Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (31:37)
on his records and we we played a bunch of gigs with David as his band too. So he and Jackson Brown and a bunch of other artists had used Venice. They're great and if you remember the Lennon sisters from the Lawrence Welk show, this is their family.
So this is the the Lennon family, the the everybody in this family
are amazing singers and musicians. In one side of the family there's thirteen brothers and sisters on the other side of it's eleven brothers and sisters. And that's what Venice is. Venice started God thirty something years ago, more than that probably. And I was turned on to them
initially by a very, very close friend of mine who is the head designer and vice president of DW Drums. This
Scott Catey (32:23)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (32:23)
guy's name is John Good. He was a big influence on my career. And John and I, when I was working at Paiste and John was r running DW basically, we we had met and done different events together and one night after an event, he said
What are you doing tonight? And I said, I don't know. He goes, You want to go see my favorite band? And he took me to see Venice the first time. And it was completely blew my mind how great they were. And the original drummer for Venice, his name is Scott Crago and he's now the drummer for the Eagles, and he's been the drummer for the Eagles for 35 years, something like that. So I met Scott, I signed him to his Paiste endorsement, and
We became friends and then jump ahead many years later, I ended up getting into the band Venice and playing percussion for them. Basically through Scott and also the drummer Matt Laug This is a long story, but I'll get to it. Matt Laug replaced Scott when Scott went to Eagles. Matt Laug became their drummer. Matt and I played together a lot with Venice and also did some touring in Europe together. And long story short, Matt is now the drummer for ACDC.
Scott Catey (33:34)
No kidding.
Rich Mangicaro (33:35)
So
that's that's who's playing with ACDC now. but Venice was instrumental for me in meeting all these great artists that I played with and you know, through Scott Crago is how eag Glenn Frey came. Because Scott and I were doing an original band in Los Angeles and we were doing on this project and Glenn Frey had a percussionist that left and said, I want somebody and I don't want to do auditions, recommend somebody. So Scott recommended
Scott Catey (34:01)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (34:02)
me. So that's how that happened. It was in nineteen ninety eight.
I think.
Scott Catey (34:05)
That's something impressive
Rich Mangicaro (34:07)
Yeah.
Scott Catey (34:07)
to get in there with no auditions. How was it when you like the first time you played? What was going through your head?
Rich Mangicaro (34:14)
There I was nervous.
Scott Catey (34:16)
hahahahah
Rich Mangicaro (34:18)
I was nervous. Of course I was nervous. I had no idea what I was getting into. But
Scott Catey (34:22)
Yeah.
Rich Mangicaro (34:23)
they had a rehearsal studio in up in North Hollywood and actually that was with Joe Walsh because we were doing two sh double duo shows with them for a lot of big corporate events. So that's what we were
Scott Catey (34:33)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (34:34)
rehearsing for. So they would Glenn would do a song of his, then Joe would do a song on Glenn and Joe. And that was the first
inclin that was the first rendition of that band was that band. And I got into it and that's shortly after Jonathan got into it too. And my first gig with them was in in in a hotel in Orlando for some
Big corporate event. And then it just went on for there from there for fifteen years. So and ended up singing background vocals with him as well. So percussion and background vocals. But, you know, it the first couple of gigs they went well and I was really nervous and then I remember we were in Minneapolis playing a theater in Minneapolis and and and Glenn goes
Have Rich do a shot at Tequila before the show. Have him loosen up a little. Reserved and just playing the parts and you know, he goes And anyway, but it worked out great. I was very, very blessed really. yeah, I mean
Scott Catey (35:34)
Did that break a little bit of the ice? Did you loosen up after that, Rich?
Rich Mangicaro (35:38)
Yeah, I mean he was Glenn was a kidder. He was a very funny guy and he wanted everybody to have some fun up there and and it was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun. Yeah, and you know, I you know, I never I was never approached that gig as my job was not to show everybody how good I was. My job was to, you know, play the parts that were on the record and play and color the music and and
play with Scott and and make it a make it an ensemble, right? You know, he's playing what he plays on Drum Kit, I have to play what fits within him and what the music calls for. I was never like sitting there trying to be Mr. Conga player, Mr. Chops, you know, it was all about musicality. It was all about playing what's appropriate, you know.
And I lasted longer than than the other percussionists that he had because of that, because I approached it. I think I approached it more from a classical sense too, I think, because I was thinking more along the lines of orchestration and how to how to play the right part for the music and what
Scott Catey (36:35)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (36:35)
what choices I would make picking up an instrument and how it would fit.
Not just with what Scott was playing, but what Glenn was singing, what frequency the guitar player was playing. So if he's in a certain frequency,
Scott Catey (36:47)
Mm.
Rich Mangicaro (36:47)
I'm not gonna pick up an instrument that's in that same frequency. I was trying to make it so that it was an ensemble throughout the whole band. That's the way I approached it.
Scott Catey (36:55)
When you got the invite to just before you even started, how do you prepare for something like that? Like there's no audition. There's a catalog of music that you're going to have to know. What's your process
Rich Mangicaro (37:07)
Well, I was very I mean I already knew the Eagles catalogue. I you know, I I
grew up on it, you know, I knew it very well. So it wasn't really that much of I mean, I got a board tape from one of their concerts, you know, and I listened to the board tape and I set my did my setup and I mean at that time I had a big setup. You know, when I was playing with those guys I had a very big big setup as opposed to like, you know, it depends on what I'm playing, 'cause my setup changes all the time depending on the gig. But I knew their music fairly well already.
With that one I d
I used three congas, djembe, bongos, timbales, a a trap table with all the toys and then sim some cymbals.
Yeah, smaller shows might be just a couple of congas and some bongos and toys, you know, or I mean stuff I'm doing in town right now is a whole different ball of wax. I'm playing like a little quartet unplugged stuff where I'm playing, you know, a a hybrid of drums and percussion together. And I
Scott Catey (38:00)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (38:01)
this is something that I love to do, so now my current setup is very weird setup where I've got two cajones, I've got a s old vintage suitcases of bass drum, a small ten inch snare drum, some hi hats, a tambourine in my left foot.
Scott Catey (38:13)
A suitcase for your bass drum. me about this.
Rich Mangicaro (38:16)
Yeah, I found this old it's not my original idea. Drummers have been doing this forever, but I've always loved the sound of that. And it's got a very old school nineteen seventies thump. So it's very cool for playing unplugged smaller situations. Kind of it's all about the sonic blending of everything that's going on in a small situation where people are playing acoustic guitars and stuff. So I th that's why I chose it. And playing mostly without sticks, mostly with brushes and rods and all you know, alternative
implements, you know, not necessarily even needing drumsticks, for example, 'cause everything is kinda keyed down and we're singing and playing and acoustic. It's fun. Yeah, it's fun.
Scott Catey (38:54)
Interesting. Where does the drummer's
sound come from? Is it the attitude? Is it the drum itself? Is it the way you hit it? Where does the sound come from? I mean the distinct sound,
Rich Mangicaro (39:04)
All the
Scott Catey (39:05)
your sound.
Rich Mangicaro (39:06)
all of the above. Yeah, I all of that. I mean yeah, I've noticed and you probably have too, when you see someone's personality as a musician and then you watch them, they kind of their personality may come through as a player if they're really an aggressive player, an aggressive person or or they're really mellow or you know, I think that has a part of it, you know. but I mean some of my favorite musicians
I can see that immediately and what kind of how their instrument is you know, how their instrument is played, you know. but I think it's all about knowing what how to use an instrument, how to play it so that the sound is appropriate.
and also that what the music calls for. And it's really all about for me, it's all about feel. It's all about, you know, what what makes the music feel well, feel good. You know what I mean?
Scott Catey (40:01)
Mmm, mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (40:02)
As a drummer, our job is to make people dance. It's our our job to, you know, to make sure that the music has that good feel, that good movement. It's not about being the flashy drummer. For me, that's
Scott Catey (40:14)
Mm.
Rich Mangicaro (40:15)
I mean I appreciate flashy drummers, you know.
But it's it's about making the music feel good and play what the music calls for. Especially when you're playing with singers, 'cause I've done a lot of work with great singers.
Scott Catey (40:27)
Mm-hmm.
Rich Mangicaro (40:28)
What does that singer want to h feel behind them, right? So that's important.
Scott Catey (40:34)
Is that a, they're going to tell you what they want or do you, is it more sort of embodied communication that you figure out what they're looking for?
Rich Mangicaro (40:44)
They'll tell you if you're not doing if you're not doing the right thing or
Scott Catey (40:49)
Yeah.
Rich Mangicaro (40:49)
if you're overplaying or if it's too loud. Or you have to be very sensitive about dynamics.
Scott Catey (40:53)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (40:54)
You know? And but it's about, you know, doing your homework and listening to the music and really kind of getting a sense of, you know, what that calls for. I mean, some of my favorite players are all the drummers that that play what the music calls for and play it beautifully, you know, like Steve Gadd or Jeff Porcaro or
Russ Kunkel or James Gadson, who we just lost actually, unfortunately, a dear friend of mine, but he played on countless R and B hits. and you listen to these kind of guys, you're hearing the music is better because of how they played it, you know.
Scott Catey (41:29)
Yeah,
totally. So I asked you little bit ago what you've learned from, you know, the folks that you've played with. This might be a little harder to answer, Rich, but what do you think they've learned from you?
Rich Mangicaro (41:48)
That's hard to answer a question like that, what someone like that would l you know, I don't know if it's a fact of I don't know if it's a fact they're learning anything from us as side men other than if they're happy, then they know that you're doing their music a service. And you're you're you're playing what's appropriate for their music and making it feel good. And if they're
Scott Catey (42:09)
Mm.
Rich Mangicaro (42:09)
smiling and you have that job and you keep that job, then you're doing your job.
You know.
And you're good and you're a good hang. That's another thing. You know, it's you you really, you're on stage for two and a half hours or something like that, you know,
Scott Catey (42:22)
Yeah.
Rich Mangicaro (42:23)
in a day, and the rest of that day you're traveling and you're hanging and you're and you gotta be professional, you have to be on time, and you gotta be a good person. You gotta be a nice, respected respectable person that's huge in our industry. Or you won't last.
Scott Catey (42:38)
Mmm. Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (42:41)
You know.
Scott Catey (42:42)
Part of what I think I'm taking away from this is as you help these artists realize their vision, you're supporting, but you're also the support that you offer to them. And I think the respectability thing you're getting at really requires that you listen. So listening
Rich Mangicaro (43:00)
Yeah.
Scott Catey (43:01)
seems to be the key quality that you bring to these relationships.
Rich Mangicaro (43:07)
Yeah, not just listening to the music, but listening to them as a person, you know, and getting a sense of you know, boundaries when you're traveling and
Scott Catey (43:16)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (43:16)
when or when to say something, when to not say something, you know, when to s when to shut up, when to you know, all of that. When when to just you know yeah, I mean I you know, conversation, you know, listening, yes.
Music
is a conversation anyway, when you're on your instrument or when you're not, you know.
Scott Catey (43:39)
It sure is.
Rich Mangicaro (43:42)
It's all about conversing and and and you can't converse unless you listen.
Scott Catey (43:47)
I think for me it's the universal language, Whatever it is we're playing, whether it's western tones or carnatic or anything, it still is recognizable as a very human way of saying something to other people, maybe one other person or a bunch of other people. So that's the thing that really drives me with music is
Rich Mangicaro (44:08)
Totally.
Scott Catey (44:08)
we're all talking the same language here.
Rich Mangicaro (44:11)
Well, you know, it's interesting you say that I just watched a little clip from Hans Zimmer the other day and
Scott Catey (44:14)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (44:15)
he was t he was talking about the magic of this. And he goes, Music is magic. You get to do this, we get to do this, we get to play music, we get we get to we get to communicate this way. We are the luckiest people because music is magic and it's it's universal.
Scott Catey (44:29)
That's right.
Rich Mangicaro (44:30)
It's it's been around forever and human beings, you know, we converse this way or we communicate regardless of what language we speak. We could I could go to I could go to any country.
and meet musicians that don't speak my language and we can communicate. It's so amazing to me. That's and Hans
Scott Catey (44:49)
Yeah.
Rich Mangicaro (44:50)
was talking about that, and I'm a huge Hans Zimmer fan. And it was really cool hearing him voice that, you know. Also, you know, Rick Rubin has a great book out.
Scott Catey (45:00)
Yes
he does.
Rich Mangicaro (45:01)
And I I read that book and it's just interesting his his approach to being the amazing producer that he is, where he doesn't even play an instrument, he doesn't even engineer. But he listens You know? That's it.
Scott Catey (45:12)
He listens, right? And not just to what's going
on, not just the conversation, but he listens to the, I think that guy listens to the ether, you know? He's got it going on in a very deep way. I don't think that's
Rich Mangicaro (45:20)
Yeah. yeah. yeah. He's a very deep
Scott Catey (45:24)
unique. I think a lot of creatives bring that, but he's found a
Rich Mangicaro (45:27)
Yeah, yeah.
Scott Catey (45:27)
way to say it as well in the book.
Rich Mangicaro (45:29)
He is a deep cat man. I mean, for somebody who doesn't play an instrument and doesn't even engineer the board, to be able to get those credits and produce all those people, what is he doing? He's listening and he's bringing out the best in every one of these people. He's figured it out like that. And he's produced all these amazing recordings. I've never met him, but man, I would like to meet that guy.
Scott Catey (45:53)
He
has something else. The work he did with Cash on the American series was just like, boy, yeah, yeah.
Rich Mangicaro (45:58)
So good. So good, I know.
Scott Catey (46:01)
Let's talk a little bit about your own albums, Rich, and the tracks that we're going to play. I think we're going to do three for the show, one from each of your three records. Tell me about the albums and where they came from. We talked a little bit about this early on, but let's start at the beginning in your debut and what we're going to hear from
Rich Mangicaro (46:24)
Well, that was a big experimentation, the first record, because it was the first time doing it and I was just kind of throwing shit at the wall. So
Scott Catey (46:28)
Mmm. Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (46:32)
I mean one song, for example, my mom had died at that point, right before that, when I started working on that record. Well, that record came out in twenty eighteen. My mom died in twenty eleven, so I actually started working on that record it way back in two thousand eleven.
There's a song called Solitude on that album, that's very somber and that was reflecting of what I was feeling. It was a piano melody. and then there was a bunch of stuff on that record that was more influenced by percussion, like the first album or the first song on it called Travels with Mecca. I wrote some of that on an airplane on garage band, kinda coming up with loops to play along with. Then
Scott Catey (47:10)
Mmm. Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (47:12)
played some doumbek to it and kind of built percussion riffs.
So it was kinda like that song th like like I was saying, it's kinda like all over the place when it comes to the genre. There's not I wasn't thinking very very smart when it comes to being marketing it marketing it. I was just saying,
Scott Catey (47:30)
Mmm, mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (47:31)
I'm just gonna do what I wanna do. Who cares? You know, I wanted to just come out with stuff that that came to me at that time, you know, and there's a couple other songs on that record that just started out with piano melodies that I built upon. So it again, it was more of a
improv experimentation that that turned into that record.
Scott Catey (47:50)
And do you think you're more savvy now with marketing and sort of discoverability, if we can call it that?
Rich Mangicaro (47:58)
A little but you know again it's so tricky to try to market in this in this climate now, you know. I mean you've doing
Scott Catey (48:07)
It sure is.
Rich Mangicaro (48:08)
it all our own and stuff. I I I've no illusions about
you know, where I am as a musician and composer, I I write this stuff for myself. If people like it, great. You know? And it's been received, but, you know, I've never really gotten rich on it. I've been able to recoup all the plastic on all three of which is good the production
Scott Catey (48:29)
Mmm, that is good.
Rich Mangicaro (48:31)
side of it. But, you know, I write for myself and if people dig it, they dig it and and people have liked it, so that's nice. But it's you know, I don't really you know, I spend a little time on each record marketing it and trying to do my my thing, getting people to know where it is. But again
As I've progressed in doing it, the whole C D sales thing has gone down more.
Scott Catey (48:49)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (48:49)
I mean the first when I first came out with the first album I sold a lot more of the first album C D's now the third album I haven't been able to move by much of anything because people it's gotten worse in
that regard.
Scott Catey (49:00)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (49:01)
A lot more and more people are not using or not you're just used streaming now, you know. So
Scott Catey (49:08)
That record that your debut is called Travels. I think we're going to play Amazonia
right? But that use your mother passed in 2011 and the album count in 2018. That's a long gestation. How, what was the, what were you sort of thinking about yourself as a album producer, as an album creator during those years?
Rich Mangicaro (49:32)
I was just I was again I was experimenting with sounds and concepts and and and just atmosphere, you know, and what what
Scott Catey (49:39)
Mm.
Rich Mangicaro (49:40)
what kind of sound I liked and build off of it. For example, that song Amo Amazonia, I came up with a keyboard sound that I thought was just really inspiring and I started writing around that and then I built the percussion around it. And it and as soon as I got the sound of the keyboard sample that I was using, it kinda steered me in a direction of of something tribal.
kind of like something that well you when you hear it you'll you see what I mean. But that was that was one the only song on that album that actually got a little bit of airplay in San Francisco on a
Scott Catey (50:10)
Mm-hmm.
Rich Mangicaro (50:11)
jazz station. But just you know, just a l teeny little bit. But yeah. It's just again, you know, a lot of times it's a sound or an atmosphere that I'll start with and it'll inspire me to move in a direction.
Scott Catey (50:23)
recording setup, Rich? Are you still using Garage Band or do you have a different kind of DAW?
Rich Mangicaro (50:27)
No, I work I use Logic and then
a bunch of different sound libraries. a lot of the Spectrasonics stuff I use f for different instruments and a lot of the contact instruments and
Also Native Access all their stuff. so yeah, so it's a combination of synthetic stuff and my acoustic instruments. I also use a lot of the Spitfire audio stuff. So I built my library to basically complement all of the different instruments that I have from around the world in my studio.
Scott Catey (51:08)
Second album, think is called Dialogues, is that right? And
Rich Mangicaro (51:14)
Yeah, uh-huh.
Scott Catey (51:15)
we're going to play Flattening the Curve. I think this is a great tune. Tell me about this one.
Rich Mangicaro (51:21)
Flattening the curve again from the COVID terminologies, you know, and I was that one just was something I wanted to do I wanted to do a duo with the bass player on that song. His name is Mark Harris. He's the bass player for Venice. And
Scott Catey (51:35)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (51:36)
he he and I still play together a lot every week. He's a really great bass player. And I wanted to do a duo with him with more of that progressive jazz rock stuff. So that's where that came from. And that one actually started with that drum riff.
that I play in the beginning of the song and then I I added the the the Fender Rhodes piano part and then came up with a little synth melody and then Mark played a bass part that I kinda sang to him a little bit of what I was hearing and then he took it and ran with it. And then I wanted to end the song with his bass solo, which is what we took it out with. It was great. Did that in one take. It's great.
Scott Catey (52:11)
Hmm. No kidding.
Rich Mangicaro (52:14)
He did that bass solo in one take, yeah. It's great.
Scott Catey (52:16)
I love this
idea of I hummed a few bars and he ran with it. That's so evocative, right? I can feel you guys in the studio putting that together.
Rich Mangicaro (52:20)
Yeah. Yeah, it was really fun. That was
fun. I'm thinking like even with the beginning of the solo, like the the the three or four lines or f notes in the beginning of the solo, I sang those lines. That I go I go, Mark, start with d do and then he just went with it after that. I heard that part and then he took it, you know. It's really cool. It's really nice that we I have
Scott Catey (52:42)
That's exciting.
Rich Mangicaro (52:43)
a little duo with him.
Scott Catey (52:44)
And third album, the most recent one,
It's a dream I had and
one.
Rich Mangicaro (52:50)
that was very inspired by movie movie soundtrack music.
so that one was inspired by just different soundtracks that I listened to. And I wanted something very uplifting, very positive, something you would hear in a at the end of a movie that makes you feel good.
Scott Catey (53:06)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (53:06)
And
And the whole idea of the way it was was kinda like harking back to, you know, maybe an easier time, you know.
after everything we've gone through in the past ten years, you know. There was like this there was before the last ten years and now and what we've been experiencing,
you
Scott Catey (53:24)
Yeah.
Rich Mangicaro (53:24)
know, even before the pandemic. In the past ten years things have just turned into like this kind of a cloud. But before I can you know, it was a time when, you know I mean, when I was in my forties and I was working with Glenn and Joe, th there was an amazing time in my life. So that was kind of thinking back on the way it was, you know, I was like, wow, that was a pretty amazing time, you know, that that kind of idea.
Scott Catey (53:46)
Those 10 years have been, I mean, really the rise of streaming, the rise of social media, the rise of sort of the internet as the replacement for everything that we used to know, right? From phone calls to records.
Rich Mangicaro (53:56)
Yeah, and and and
and the rise of miscommunication and the rise of rise of isolation and the rise of fear and a a lot of things, you know, we're th that we're dealing with now. technology can be a great thing and it can also just like, wow, where where is everybody? You know?
Scott Catey (54:16)
So we're at the hour.
we're a little bit over rich. I want to respect your time, but tell me if you don't mind, what's your, you know, the premise of this show is that music is the sum of all wisdom. I think essentially for me, that is we speak the universal language when we're communicating through music, but it's more than that. It's more than just the pithy, you know, I've gone to the Oracle and I've learned something from the Oracle.
I think wisdom is much more embodied, it's much more experiential, it's much more in the relationship that we have with each other as we communicate through music. So with that sort of in mind, what words of wisdom do you have to pass on to folks who are listening?
Rich Mangicaro (54:59)
I think there's i i in in a lot of respects when as a as just as a human as just a human being, we all have some sort of music in us. You
Scott Catey (55:10)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (55:10)
know, that we're that's inside of us. See whether you can carry a tune or not. You know, you're you're you know, s since we were young we are hearing melody in our head or we're hearing songs or something that we heard when we were younger prev gives us an emotional feeling or something.
but I think it's kind of inside of all of us and it is a communication that
Is kind of a natural form of communication, even if somebody's just walking down the street and whistling.
Scott Catey (55:42)
Hmm.
Rich Mangicaro (55:43)
I mean, if you think about it, if you're walking down the street, if you're taking a walk, right,
Scott Catey (55:48)
Right.
Rich Mangicaro (55:48)
and you're talking to somebody and you're walking at the same time and you're breathing at the same time, you're doing three different types of rhythms without even knowing you're doing it.
You know what I mean? It's like you're walking in one rhythm, your heart's
beating at one rhythm, you're talking to somebody. We're we're multi rhythmic beings naturally.
Scott Catey (56:06)
Mmm. Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (56:08)
I think musicians have just tapped into that deeper. You know. But I think everybody benefits from music, whether they think about it or not, you know? And I think it's unfortunate that
There's been these huge corporations that have tapped into let's make this real convenient for everybody. So they only have to pay a little bit per month and they can hear anything they want to. Number one, that has helped people listen to music more, yes. But it's taken away that that special thing about supporting the the people that create the music, unfortunately. But I think I think that, you know, it is a form of communication that's a natural thing for a human being.
So yeah, I don't know. I think maybe just open your ears up and
But
Scott Catey (56:55)
think the
corporate convenience thing has also background music way too much. It's everywhere. It's a little bit unfair of me to say that that's too recent because we've been experiencing that since Muzac right, basically,
Rich Mangicaro (57:09)
yeah. Sure, sure.
Scott Catey (57:11)
But it sure seems to have gotten to a different sort of scale of...
Rich Mangicaro (57:14)
Yeah. Yeah.
Scott Catey (57:16)
we just don't
pay attention anymore. They open your ears. For me, that's the wisdom.
that we really need to hear today.
Rich Mangicaro (57:25)
Yeah. I mean if you see somebody's b body language when they're in in a live performance of some kind or whatever, it's it it can tell you a lot, you know, and how they're
Scott Catey (57:34)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (57:34)
moving or whether what you know, what they're how they're experiencing seeing something live, you know. I think people should see more live music. More live theater. More
Scott Catey (57:41)
I 100 % agree with that.
Rich Mangicaro (57:44)
live theater, more live music. Get get out and see more live performing, you know. And
Scott Catey (57:52)
and support the artists.
Rich Mangicaro (57:53)
And support
the artist and just see like Hans had said, see the magic of this, you know, and experience
Scott Catey (57:59)
Mmm.
Rich Mangicaro (57:59)
it. Feel it. You know? Yeah.
Scott Catey (58:01)
Cool. Thanks, Rich.
Rich Mangicaro (58:03)
Yeah.
Scott Catey (58:04)
Good words. Thanks very much. I really appreciate you being
Rich Mangicaro (58:06)
Thank you.
Scott Catey (58:07)
here today. This has been a really, for me, a fun conversation. think, thank you very much.
Rich Mangicaro (58:13)
Thank you for having me. I'm very honored to be here.
Scott Catey (58:15)
I'll be in touch, Rich. Thanks very much.
Rich Mangicaro (58:17)
Scott, thank you very much, man. Nice really nice to meet you and talk with you.
Scott Catey (58:18)
Yeah, that's great.
I love meeting you. It's so much fun to this conversation. I hope we get a chance to talk again this way. All right, take care. You too.
Rich Mangicaro (58:25)
Me too. Thank you. Have have a good day. Bye.
Scott Catey (58:29)
Bye-bye.