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Released every Tuesday, the LOUNGE LIZARDS podcast helps listeners navigate the experience of finding and enjoying premium cigars (both Cuban and non-Cuban) and quality spirits. Episodes are normally around 90 minutes long and feature a variety of different topics including food, travel, life, sports and work.
The podcast features seven members: Rooster, Poobah, Gizmo, Senator, Pagoda, Grinder and Bam Bam.
This is not your typical cigar podcast. We’re a group of friends who love sharing cigars, whiskey and a good laugh.
Join us and become a card-carrying lounge lizard yourself! Email us at hello@loungelizardspod.com to join the conversation and be featured on an upcoming episode!
**Gizmo:** [00:00:00] Welcome to the Lounge Lizards podcast. It's so good to have you here. It's a leisure and lifestyle podcast founded on our love of premium cigars, as well as whiskey, travel, food, work, and whatever else we feel like getting into. My name is Gizmo. Tonight I'm joined by Rooster, Puba, Senator, Pagoda, and Bam Bam, and our plan is to smoke a cigar, drink some whiskey, talk about life, and of course, have some laughs.
So take this as your 110th official invitation to join us and become a card carrying lounge lizard. It is here once a week. We're going to smoke a New World cigar tonight, share our thoughts on it, and give you our formal lizard rating. We review Steve Saka's marca and his industry history. We reveal new details about the upcoming Padron Fuente Legends collaboration, and we discuss what may be the world's most secure humidor, all among a variety of other things for the next 90 minutes.
So sit back, get your favorite drink, light up a cigar, and enjoy. As we pair Little Rest American Single Malt Whiskey with the Dunbarton Tobacco Trust Muestra De Saca The [00:01:00] Bewitched. A Toro extra tonight on the pod. It's Nicaraguan. It's from Dunbarton Tobacco Company. It's called the Muestra De Saca The Bewitched.
It's a six and five eighths inches cigar. And a 48 ring gauge and boys, this is the first time I think that we've pulled out a coffin on the podcast. I think you're right. Calabra. Calabra. Calabra. Yeah.
**Bam Bam:** First individual coffin tonight. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Per man. This, so I ordered a box of seven cigars for the podcast and it shows up from Atlantic and I'm like, why is it three and a half or four pounds for seven cigars?
And then I realized what was going on here is they all come in individual. Cedar coffins inside a pretty serious, um, lacquer cedar box. You know,
**Bam Bam:** it's a good looking cigar.
**Gizmo:** And it's got a pigtail. It has a pigtail. And a footband. We're hitting all the Yeah. We're pulling all the stops
**Senator:** tonight. I [00:02:00] have to say, in fairness, once you take it out of the coffin and remove the cellophane It's a good looking cigar, but the presentation, when it's, when you have the coffin in your hand, you're expecting a really beautiful looking presentation inside.
And when you open it, it's like seeing a dead body in the coffin. It's not really that nice. I mean, there's no like upper band on the cigar. I was expecting like a nice ordinate band. It just has this little footband with, like, stamped, The Bewitched. Mm hmm. And, um, I don't know. I was a little underwhelmed.
I like the wrapper. Notice
**Rooster:** the owl on the, on the box.
**Gizmo:** Oh yeah, look at that. There's a very specific, uh, designation as to why the owl is there. We'll talk about that in a little bit. Is that the
**Bam Bam:** owl's kiss? Do you know what that
**Gizmo:** is? No. What is the owl's kiss? Talk offline. Oh boy. All right, boys, let's cut this thing.
See, we're getting on the cold draw on the wrapper. The pigtail is pretty serious, actually. That's not like a traditional pigtail. It's like a pretty well twisted up. I like it.
**Bam Bam:** [00:03:00] Rooster's having a problem with the footpant. I know
**Poobah:** it does look like a footpant sock. And you already have it in a coffin in cellophane.
How much more protection does the foot need? But okay, it's a good point. Um, but the cold draw on this thing, uh, it tastes like fig. It's very, very figgy. Which is a typical kind of taste, which isn't a leading indicator of anything fantastic.
**Gizmo:** There's a mustiness to it too. There's something there that I'm not sure what it is.
You're being a party pooper. No, no,
**Senator:** no, no, I'm not. Can we have a little more positivity from that corner of the room?
**Gizmo:** Oh,
**Poobah:** okay. I'll, I'll, I'll retract that.
**Bam Bam:** Retract it. That's my word.
**Gizmo:** This, uh, this smells interesting. It does. And the cold draw. It has like, um, it almost has like a, like a weird mustiness to it.
Almost like, um, I want to use the word mushroom or something from the cold draw, the wrapper, which on the cold draw.
**Poobah:** So, so the box press is [00:04:00] very pronounced. It's like almost the corners are like, so. Define angular and defined where if this was an X, like an exclusivo, it's not the angles are not as abrupt or not as sharp, but that may be a merit in the cigar.
Who knows? I like the mushroom as a,
**Rooster:** as a good, I mean,
**Gizmo:** you do get that. I'm getting like a mushroom kind of mustiness to it. When you
**Senator:** said that, I think it's spot on. And it's strange that I don't think we've ever reviewed a cigar where we've ever called
**Gizmo:** out. That's the first time I've ever. Thought of the word mushroom, because I actually, if you guys know how much, how many times we've shared meals together, I actually despise mushrooms as a flavor.
We made you eat them somewhere. You did. And you liked them. It was just, uh, it was at the pizza at a fortunes place. That's right. Very good. Yeah,
**Pagoda:** vegetarian chicken. Is that what it is?
**Gizmo:** I don't, I don't mind shrooms. So I got to say, this is a, um, we [00:05:00] know this is a pretty handsome cigar naked. I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's really
**Bam Bam:** nice looking.
There's that combination of light and dark Brown tones. It's unique. It is. And it's oily machine on
**Gizmo:** it. Yeah. Yeah. It looks good. All right, boys. Let's like this thing. The Dunbarton tobacco company, Westra de Saca, the bewitched again, it's a 48 ring gauge cigar. By six and five eighths inches, as we noted a pretty significant box press on it.
Is this a Toro? This is a Toro Extra. Bordering on Bam's favorite of the double Toro. But just on the border Bam.
**Poobah:** The unicorn stuff. Which is not an actual Vitola. No, it's not.
**Senator:** Sorry. Believe it or not. It is somewhere. Apparently is in the New World. There is a, an Oliva. That's true. Double Toro. Right. So, in
**Bam Bam:** honor of Bam Bam.
That's right. I feel
**Gizmo:** vindicated now. It's the Bam Bam Vitola from episode two, I [00:06:00] think.
**Bam Bam:** So as we're lighting this, this is a Lizard EDL recommend, is that right? Yeah, I believe
**Poobah:** it
**Gizmo:** is. It's good on the light. We've had some. Yeah, I like it on the light. I'll tell you, we've had a lot of listeners telling us to smoke, uh, Dunbarton and Steve Saka stuff.
I
**Poobah:** like it on the light a lot. Oh,
**Bam Bam:** man.
**Senator:** I agree. Flavor
**Gizmo:** is good. It's also. Oh, that's really nice. Pretty unique. Very unique. And I, I gotta say, I like the bit of resistance on my draw. Yeah. It's not wide open. Yeah. No, the draw is perfect.
**Poobah:** I kind of, uh, the presentation is Um, over the top, like why you have a coffin plus cellophane plus a foot band, which is off putting for all, I think the obvious reasons why that's off putting.
It's just not good decisions, but boy in the light that cigar tastes good. Yeah, it is good.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. This is really nice. So the tobacco makeup of this cigar. The wrapper is Ecuadorian Habano. The binder is [00:07:00] Mexican. It's called Cultivo Tanto from San Andres. Uh, and the filler is Nicaraguan and U. S. A. U. S. A.? So there's U.
S. A. filler in this cigar. Huh. Which is only the second or third cigar that we've done. That's all long filler, I assume. Yep, all long filler. Is that,
**Bam Bam:** uh, Patterson or
**Gizmo:** Newark blend? Uh, it's, it's both. Okay.
**Pagoda:** Listen, the last time we had the Pledge
**Gizmo:** of Allegiance. It's an Essex to say a combo, Bama. Yeah, but that, Pledge of Allegiance is the, Right, they had the, yeah.
Could be, That
**Poobah:** was great. Some, maybe there's something,
**Gizmo:** I don't know, but this is really great on the light. So, I'm like really impressed on the light. I'm starting to get a little bit of pepper. Oh, yeah. Oh, I agree. So this, like I said, it comes in a box of seven cigars. It's MSRP is right around 20 bucks. And I guess we'll determine the value prop, you know, the value prop on the cigar as we get down towards the end.
But I do wonder if it's not presented in a coffin in this box, in all this stuff, can you take four or five dollars off the price of the [00:08:00] cigar and price it a little bit more competitively? Right. Is that like a logical thing to put a
band
**Poobah:** on and just put a simple band? So maybe there's somebody who's overthought this commercially.
I think
**Senator:** they have it because I just go back to my initial reaction to it. I, I just, you don't look at this cigar, especially with no band at the top of the cigar and say, this is a really stunning cigar that needs to be in this elaborate, this, this looks like a very simple, but nicely constructed cigar.
I'd be happy if it came in a bundle, it would be fine. Like it just doesn't need all this. I don't like, I
**Rooster:** don't mind that it doesn't have a band. Sometimes I like a cigar because it's, it's kind of different from what we, every
**Gizmo:** single cigar has a band.
**Senator:** I agree, but then it doesn't need to be in, it shouldn't be in a coffin for me.
Like a coffin is for an, an ornate
**Bam Bam:** Cigar. Yeah. It's something unusual, special, even
**Poobah:** like,
**Gizmo:** look
**Senator:** at that on that, on that Culebra, the like giant band that fills the whole thing. Like
**Gizmo:** I'm
**Poobah:** thinking of it when you want bandit
**Gizmo:** and smoke [00:09:00] it. And don't forget to the Calabria has three cigars in it, in that one coffin, you know?
So again, at a 20 new world Toro extra with. That, that's really not a quote unquote special release. At least it's not now. It originally was, and we could talk about that in a second, but you know, it's, it's a really nice, it's a handsome Toro, but I think with the simple band, it would have been able to have been priced a little bit.
Good, good smoke.
**Poobah:** I'm liking this so far. I'm liking the construction. I'm liking the smoke output and the taste. That's the
**Gizmo:** flavors. Excellent flavors.
**Pagoda:** Good. I'll tell you the foot band, uh, with a pigtail reminds me of the purpose for eaters. I'm just kidding.
**Gizmo:** It does. It does. You're not wrong. And don't forget, that's one of his cigars.
Is it? Steve Sokka. Yes it is. Steve Sokka is the founder of Liga. Ford drew a state when he was the CEO there. So he was there for quite some time, left in 2015. This is
**Senator:** making a whole lot more sense because the Papas Fritas only has a footband. With a pigtail. And yeah, it's a very simple. Presentation. So [00:10:00] this is just his style.
Yeah. He
**Gizmo:** needs a marketing guy. So boys, what kind of flavor notes are you getting? Because I'm, I'm finding this to be a medium ish, uh, Nicaraguan experience right now. Very, very smooth. And what I like about it, you know, as opposed to some of the Nicaraguans we've smoked on the podcast, it has a little bit more of a sweet finish as opposed to a pepper finish for me.
There's some sort of like I don't want to call it maple syrup or something like that, but like a viscous sweetness that rounds out the finish that really makes it pleasurable for me. Uh,
**Pagoda:** I don't know. I think I'm being crazy here, but I don't know. For some reason, it's reminding me of the Pledge of Allegiance.
I don't know why. Yeah, I don't know if he's
**Bam Bam:** that wrong. It's, it's, this is a little different. I'm having a hard time putting my finger on it. Just a little bit.
**Gizmo:** It's
**Poobah:** got a
**Rooster:** little mustiness, you know, maybe, maybe that mushroom note.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. Kind of, that
**Bam Bam:** kind of comes through. On the retrohale there's a little bit of pepper.
Pepper, yeah. [00:11:00] And on the finish of the retro is sweet. That's where I get most of the sweetness for me.
**Senator:** Yeah. The thing I'm having a hard time with is what are, what are the sweet notes that we're getting? Because I'm getting it as Gizmo said. It's. But I can't tell if it's like. He's right. Cocoa or just baking spice.
I
**Bam Bam:** think it's just an overall sweet note, which I can't put my finger on. It's not fruit. Kind
**Gizmo:** of like freshly roasted coffee bean with, with
**Bam Bam:** a couple of spoons of
**Poobah:** sugar. I actually think, I actually think that's, that's like one of your better comments. Freshly roasted coffee bean.
**Rooster:** Like when you, you know, when you smell a bag of like coffee beans that are like freshly roasted, you get
**Gizmo:** that aroma.
Well done. Yeah,
**Senator:** actually I, I can see that I, that's, I think
**Gizmo:** Rooster nailed it. What it is. This is really, really good. Excellent smoke. This is, this is wonderful. I'm enjoying this
**Poobah:** cigar. I hated the presentation.
**Gizmo:** [00:12:00] You know what I like about it too? And we've talked about this with Nicaraguan cigars. The Nicaraguan blend is so many of these cigars.
They punch you in the face when you light it. They hit you with pepper right away and then you move into the sweetness. Hopefully, hopefully it tames itself a little, little bit. We're not getting that pepper bomb. That Nicaraguan pepper bomb we get so often. There is some pepper, but it's not the primary note.
Yeah, but it's
**Rooster:** also ending on a sweet
**Gizmo:** note. Right.
**Poobah:** Right. Yeah, and it's not black pepper or white pepper. It's just kind of a spiciness. There's just a little bit of spice, but it's not Christmas spice. It's not totally black pepper or white pepper. It's just.
**Rooster:** It's a nice compliment of notes, you know, like
**Poobah:** spice.
I mean, I can't, I can't put my finger on it. I
**Senator:** think the biggest thing for me, this is just an extremely well balanced cigar. Like all like whenever we light up a Nicaraguan cigar, we're expecting like bold flavors and there's flavor and depth to them here, but they're done. [00:13:00] It's delivered in such a balanced way.
Like, look at how hard it is for us to even pick out some of these notes. And it's not that we're not getting flavor. It's just, it's delivered in such a like gentle, subtle. complex way that I think is pretty impressive for a Nicaraguan tobacco to do that. That's not easy, right? Like usually these flavors are just so bold and in your face that there's not much nuance to them.
But I think that this is achieving that.
**Gizmo:** And I think, I think that Nicaraguan tobacco is helped by. The Mexican San Andres rapper that I think Pagoda more than all than any of us has called out so many times when we've done these cigars, Mexican San Andres over and over are the ones that we enjoy. And then bringing in that USA tobacco, which might be similar to the Pledge of Allegiance or might be from a similar type of producer here.
I mean, it, it, you know, not doing full bore Nicaraguan and crossing your fingers with age that it's going to tame down a little bit. I think the blend here is this wrapper
is
**Rooster:** not Mexican San Andres, right? It's
**Gizmo:** [00:14:00] Ecuadorian. I think that is correct. I'm so sorry that yeah, you're right. It's Ecuadorian Habano.
The binder is Mexican San Andres. Rooster's on his game today. He's on, he's calling me out. I did my homework today. Roasted
**Bam Bam:** coffee?
**Poobah:** Well, I, I, I feel like, I feel like this cigar is a cigar due to its length. What's the length,
**Gizmo:** uh? Six and five eighths inches. Six and five eighths by 48. They actually print it on the coffin.
Yeah. But they put the decimal on the coffin, which I thought was interesting.
**Poobah:** But the 48 ring gauge is nice. And when it's box pressed, it actually kind of, the mouth feel is more, even more comfortable.
**Gizmo:** I think it feels
**Poobah:** great in the hand. It feels great in your hand. And it's actually something that I'm going to slow down with and enjoy.
Savor a little, uh, I'm right now, I'm, I'm enjoying this very, very much. Um, so, so pleasantly
**Gizmo:** [00:15:00] surprised. None of us has had this before, right? This is the first Dunbarton release I've ever smoked. And I've never even heard
**Pagoda:** of it. So never
**Gizmo:** heard of it. Me neither. Never heard of it. Dunbarton makes a whole bunch of different cigars.
They make a ton of different cigars. They came out. So, uh, so let me go back. We'll start with Steve Saka's journey. Pretty interesting. He was an engineer. And was intending to be an engineer in college. And then I guess fell in love with cigars, you know, at that point or right after college and wanted to make that his life.
So he moved away from engineering. And then when he was serving in the Navy, really, really dove into cigars in the, in, in, you know, right before the early nineties, moved into the cigar. Industry in the nineties and then moved to a job at Drew estate where he became president and then eventually CEO. So he joined them in 2005.
He was with them for, I think around nine or 10 years. His big achievement, like we said, is the entire legal line. That was [00:16:00] his, you know, brainchild alongside Nick Malivo, who's now at foundation, as we've talked about a few times. And then in 2015, he founded Dunbarton tobacco and trust. And primarily makes in, like in his vision for the legal line, uh, Nicaraguan tobacco.
So
**Senator:** what does Dunbarton itself make? As far as the different lines? Yeah, I'm just curious. This goes back to, honestly, so I'm enjoying this cigar like many of us are. This goes back to my frustration that there's not a band or a label on this because I've never heard of Dunbarton. I don't know what they make.
And I would love to start being able to easily identify like a Dunbarton cigar, you know, in a retailer, because maybe this is something that I would
**Gizmo:** pick up. You can't. So here's, here's a couple of the markers that Dunbarton produces. The me Kierda and the me Kierda black. They also have another one.
**Senator:** Keep going. He's good.
**Gizmo:** I don't like you guys. The red meat [00:17:00] lovers, which I think we've actually talked about on the podcast at one point, the scene compromiso without compromise, the sober Mesa, you guys have definitely seen that. The, the one, the cigar with the yellow gold kind of crown as the band. Uh, that's a pretty popular cigar.
I've seen that around. Uh, they make that in a brulee. I think that might be a flavored cigar in line with acid, but I'm not sure. The still well star, the totals last DS, the Umba Gag unicorns, and then the Muestra aka what about which means sample of Saka? What about the toto bien to, to, so their entire ethos is Pirro Zos, cigars without compromise.
That's their kind of directive, uh, as far as their cigars go.
**Senator:** Do we know when these, uh, uh, when this like company
**Gizmo:** kind of started, so the company started in 2015. Okay. Wow. So it's, it's, it's not an, uh, it's not been around terribly long. What's interesting about this specific cigar, the bewitched that we hold in [00:18:00] our hand, which is part of, I guess there's eight or nine, uh, different Vitolas in the Westwood, the Saka, which again means sample of Saka, wine from Dunbarton.
This cigar was originally released. Uh, it was called the Owl Shop, uh, you know, 75th, which was specifically manufactured for the Owl Shop, the tobacco shop in Worcester, Mass., for their 75th anniversary in 2021. And I guess it was such a big hit. Steve Saka then asked the proprietor there, Zach Fotakis is his name, if they could release it under the moisture to Saka.
And that is why when you look at the coffin, the owl is on the coffin because this was made for the owl, uh, tobacco shop up in Worcester mass. So then this was released in 2022 as its own cigar under that line. And they kept the owl on there as a tribute to the original release. And like I said, there's seven or [00:19:00] eight other lines.
Uh, excuse me, Vitola is in the line. There's an, uh, what they call the Exclusivo. Which is a six by 52. Whoa. Whoa. I didn't, I knew you wouldn't like that. It might be a lawsuit there. The Nassau Tamale, which is a six by 48, the unicorn, which is a six and a quarter by 60. That's a big one. One that's has a hashtag name.
N L M T H a 38 ring gauge by seven, the unstolen Valor, which is 52 by six, the U boat, which is 50 by seven. The Krakatoa, which is 48 by six, which just came out in September and the bewitched that we have in our hand. Which is 48 by six and five eighths inches long. So that's the line. Is this
**Rooster:** the highest
**Gizmo:** price wise?
I don't know the answer to that. It looks like one of the bigger cigars, but it will actually, I think there might be one or two others that are bigger. Um, so I would think that this is kind of in the middle of the range, but is this the only one that comes in a coffin? No, I think they all come in [00:20:00] coffins.
Oh, they all the entire line comes in a coffin. Oh, wow.
**Poobah:** Yeah, it's very good. I I'm pleasantly surprised. It's it's, and I actually think. It's a little bit of a hybrid it feels like it's it's not quite Nicaraguan, but there's that Nicaraguan in there Yeah, and it but the sweet finish though Yeah, and it's it's a lighter than a drone but it's kind of constructed like one in the spirit of one but doesn't have that deep earth.
It's a little bit, it's got some sweetness there. It's got some coffee.
**Rooster:** I think that Mexican San Andres binder or filler,
**Gizmo:** it's a binder, I think. Right. That's a binder. Yeah. That's what gives that sweetness. Yeah. That's
**Poobah:** right there, man. Yeah. It's, it's right there. And so it's actually, so sometimes these things and not to jump to the spirit real quick, but I'm enjoying.
To prematurely, but I'm enjoying this because [00:21:00] when this spirits opened up this little rest and we can get into it in a second. But what it's presenting to me right now is there's like a little bit of pecan, a little bit of fruit in the spirit. That's, that's like now it's, that it's open. This is a hybrid American single malt whiskey.
It's not a Scotch. It's also kind of a hybrid. And this cigar is a little bit of a hybrid Nicaraguan. Yeah,
**Gizmo:** it's, it's a good parallel as far as the, the ingredients, I guess you say, or the blend or whatever you want to call it. But so what, what do we have here? So this is called the little rest American single malt whiskey.
And it's by a distillery out of the Hudson Valley of New York, which would now be our second one that we've done on the podcast. This is the first single malt whiskey that we've done. I believe the other was a bourbon. Correct.
**Poobah:** Correct. Correct. It's, so it's, it's, it's a distillery called Little Rest. The entrepreneur [00:22:00] behind this is a, is a gentleman named John Dyson.
He's just, he's of Scottish heritage. They use, it's a single malt that's crafted with just New York state grains. And there's a whole thing that goes on up in, in, in Dutchess County, New York. And for those, for the listeners, there's the conic stout distillery. There's a lot of distilleries, um, that are making spirits up in, up in the Hudson Valley.
This, this particular distillery makes vodka. They also make gin and, uh, it's a lot of investment. It's a lot of time, it's a labor of love and it takes millions and millions of dollars to, to actually do what they're doing. And, and the folks who are doing this type of work are really not doing it, um, for the money.
I, you know, met one of the representatives there and they had different bottles for sale and this bottle was one that I happened to pick up and they said, this is a numbered bottle. It's, [00:23:00] it's It's a limited release. It's bottle 3359. And, um, you know, it's, this is a very small batch bottle. And, and so the price tag on it gives you access.
So it doesn't really reflect the actual. You know, the regular spirits that they sell are about 79 bucks. This, this spirit is to get access to their kind of more small batch stuff. You just pay a premium up front for, to just
**Gizmo:** get access. So there's a, there's an initiation fee kind of, yeah,
**Poobah:** it's kind of like an initiation fee kind of thing.
**Bam Bam:** Well, I was about to ask how much that bottle costs.
**Poobah:** Well, the bottle costs 180 bucks, but that's not, but, but if you want access to more limited stuff like this. You can gain access. If you bought one of these bottles and you did the small batch
**Gizmo:** stuff. So, um, so have you met, so, so the distillery is called 10 mile, right?
And this correct whiskey is [00:24:00] called little
**Poobah:** rest, little rest. Then the 10 mile river runs, runs through. Duchess County. So the, the name Little Rest is it's named that after a steep hill near the distillery, which was historically required to take an extra horse to help carts climate. And, uh, the name reflects this kind of place for rest at the Hill Summit.
And they started barreling whiskey in 2020. And started, uh, releasing it in April of, uh, 2023. And it's aged in Francois for as barrels from, uh, William Salem, emphasizing quality in these time honored methods. And, and, uh, you know, so this was like a presale bottle and it's handmade in small batches. So it's very small batch stuff and.
It's, they take a lot of pride in what they do in terms of making. Um, and when, in my conversation with, with, with them, it's, it's an American [00:25:00] single malt whiskey. It's not a bourbon. It's not a scotch, you know, it's made from barley. There are
**Bam Bam:** elements of both though, in
**Gizmo:** this drink. There are, I was going to say, this is kind of an amalgamation.
Well,
**Bam Bam:** like you said, it's a hybrid. I do get a. You know, on the finish, it's very bourbon like for me. Yeah. On the front, it's very scotch like
**Gizmo:** for me. It does have like a nuttiness to it. Yes. Is it a pecan or an Yeah. Yeah. Kind of an almond or something like that. There's some sort of nutty note. There's
**Poobah:** like a pecan almost flavor I got from it.
So, it's made from 100 percent New York State grown barley.
**Gizmo:** Which I think would be a requirement for some of the Is there a tax incentive or Grants or something like some of these, some of these, like we have this in New Jersey too, that the wine, Farmer credits. Yeah, exactly. Credits and, and different kind of tax incentives and whatnot.
So you have to use a wholly, uh, uh, everything needs to come from the region that you're distilling in. What's
**Poobah:** the, what's the proof? Most of it, most of it is, [00:26:00] it's 45 proof. 45, got it. Uh, or 46 maybe. So 90 proof. So it's 90 proof. Yeah. 90, but 10 mile Distillery, which is the, the, the, the distillery that, that, that makes little rest is the leading consumer of New York state grown barley.
So that's how aggressive they're, they are in terms of their level of investment purchasing 500,000 pounds of local barley. It's a lot of bar. It's a lot of borrowing and they're pretty deliberate and they're in, you know, and what they do, um, they've won a lot of awards and it's, it's, it's pretty well respected and there's a whole scene.
So it's kind of like you need to, so you kind of need to, when I look at something like this, you kind of need to look at it and not. Try and say, well, is it comparable to McAllen and the price point? This is made in the USA. It's made in Hudson Valley, New York, which is like making it in the Hamptons. Do you know what I mean?
The land is [00:27:00] expensive. The, the, you know, the taxes are crazy expensive. It's just not so. These are people like doing this actually for the love of the business.
**Senator:** Right. And they don't have the scale yet to, for the price point to be all that competitive yet. Right. I mean, the smaller quantity you make, the more expensive.
They
**Gizmo:** bottled it during COVID and they've just put out their first release in April of this year. So that's why they're needing initiation fees and access and limited release. And, you know, they need to raise money and start to recoup some of this investment to keep it going. I
**Bam Bam:** have to say, I do like having a spirit that's local.
It's, it feels good. You know, it's interesting to, to, to, to see something like this. That's made within what 50 mile radius from where we're sitting right now.
**Poobah:** An hour and hour and 20 minutes.
**Gizmo:** Right. That's
**Senator:** kind of cool. I agree. And you know, for me, there's always something enjoyable about consuming a locally made product, but a lot of the time, if we're being honest, when that happens, it's not great.
It's not really that good quality. What I really am happy about with this. Just a few [00:28:00] observations. I mean, number one, when Puba took the bottle out of the box, the bottle is beautiful. I actually think like one of the best presentations, and I think it was Pagoda who literally read my mind as he was commenting next to me, that it's kind of like a hybrid between a Hibiki bottle and like an Avalor bottle.
Very good point. Yeah. I like it. And I think it's just really well done. And then, you know, sometimes you see these bottles, nice presentation. You say, Oh, great. Now, you know, what's the spirit actually going to taste like? And I have to say the first thing I noticed the, the viscosity of this, just look at your glass when you move the spirit around, it's just coating the glass and the mouth feel.
is amazing. Like the mouthfeel is very like buttery on your palate. So I feel like you just really get to appreciate the flavor of it. And Puba's notes that he called out earlier, I mean, you mentioned pecan and some of these other things I think are spot on. And I love the commentary around how this is like a hybrid between a Scotch and a bourbon because it [00:29:00] truly does drink like that.
I mean, I've had some spirits from Hudson Valley and they're good, but I'll be honest. I haven't found much that has been all that interesting. This is like the first thing I've had that. It's unlike anything I've ever had in a
**Gizmo:** really good way, right?
**Poobah:** In a really different, cool way. That's exactly. And I think that's exactly like when you speak to them at the, at like at the booth, they're like, this isn't, it says American, American single malt whiskey.
They're like, don't get confused. It's not a Scotch. This is our own thing that we're doing.
**Senator:** Well, I love on the bottle, it says, which I think sums it up very well. It says, inspired by our Scottish origins, crafted with locally sourced New York barley. I think that speaks to like, there are elements of it that are Scotch like in style, but [00:30:00] delivers a bourbon like taste along with that.
Which is very American. It is. It's, it's, it's, it's well done for what they're trying to do. I actually think they've achieved it.
**Bam Bam:** The only con for me. Is it, if you, I had this without ice prior to, to icing it down, it drinks a bit
**Poobah:** hot. Well, if anything, 90 proof,
**Bam Bam:** it's hard to drink this without ice. You put
**Poobah:** a little, you put a couple, I think it's meant to be.
But I
**Bam Bam:** have to say though, on the finish, neat was extraordinary. And we mentioned this before you hit the record button. There's a lot of sweetness on the finish, which carried through even after icing it. That's a merit to this spirit. It just shows the quality of how it's
**Poobah:** It's nutty and fruity. It's got like a balance to it.
Um, and this is my first time having it. I mean, I had like a small taste. I was just like, give me a bottle. We'll do it on the pod. You know what I mean? Like, it tasted good at the time. It is absolutely
**Bam Bam:** different than anything I've ever had.
**Gizmo:** There's something, there's something interesting about the nose that I wanted to talk to you guys [00:31:00] about.
Just take, just take the nose on it. There's some sort of, um, it's almost like a, uh, and, and this is gonna sound like I'm saying something negative, but it's not, but it's almost like it's a spoiled like sweet, oh, I get it. A little bit of that, of smell. And it's not bad. No. A unique smashing.
**Senator:** There's a funkiness, there's a funk
**Bam Bam:** to it.
Like a very slight barnyard, which is not off-putting at all for me. And I like that. But
**Gizmo:** I think it works with a cigar and it's obviously working with this cigar very nicely. Thank God. But, um, you know, this is, this is very, very unique and, and stands on its own. I think in, in what we've consumed on the podcast, I just think that this is, you know, unlike any other spirit that we've had on the pod.
And I don't think that, you know, to your point, I know that I would, you know, like you said, I was reading too about, uh, Shane Fraser, the. Master distiller up there who, who works at 10 mile and builds this stuff in, [00:32:00] you know, like he said, in the Scottish tradition, but you know, obviously number one, it's not made in Scotland, so it can't be Scotch and to the ingredients, the region, everything about it is very, very different than, than what they make in, you know, across the pond.
So this must be judged on its own. And I think it's standing on its own here tonight.
**Senator:** I think the other thing, I think we have fallen into a really good pairing. Uh, yeah. I think like we're talking about this cigar is like a hybrid of all these things. The spirit as a hybrid of all these things. And every sip I take of the spirit for me is better than the last.
So like I'm, my appreciation for it is only growing as I continue to enjoy it. And it's bringing out more in the cigar.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah. You know, I, I feel exactly the same way about the cigar. First half inch was really unique and different. That next inch or so for me was a little bit bitter. Uh, but it is now really, really good and it's getting better and better as you go through
**Senator:** it.
I [00:33:00] think sweeter and I'm getting like now, like cocoa with that coffee we were talking about, which I
**Gizmo:** like. And I think like the drink again, you know, going back to it being a very unique and appropriate pairing is there is that's that kind of. Stank to it. There's, there's some sort of mustiness. It's very slight though.
Slight. But, you know, we, we talked about it on the cold draw. I'm getting it now, especially out of the aroma, out of the, the head of the cigar. There, there is a umami flavor. Umami.
**Senator:** Yeah. Can we not, can we not call it stank? I don't
**Poobah:** want to, but I don't want to focus on that. I don't know what else to call it.
Like, I just poured another, I just poured another little dram of this. And it's actually at the, it's like fruit forward. In a way, and then, and then finishes with this nutty finish that is, it's, it's different. It's like nothing I've ever had. It's a whiskey, but it's like, you can't put a, you can't pinpoint it and [00:34:00] say, it tastes like maker's mark or it tastes like McCown or it tastes like anything else.
It's like totally unique, which I think is like very interesting and hard to do. It's hard to do like what they're doing is
**Senator:** hard, definitely hard. These distillers are using all the same, you know, product, right. The same materials. Barley, corn, whatever they're using to make it. It's hard to blend that in a way that is going to differentiate it from other products.
And so I think for a lot of these that we do, you know, we sit here, it's random brands that we're maybe not as familiar with. And we say like, Oh, this tastes like bourbon. It's okay. You know, it's interesting. There's nothing differentiating about it. And I'm not going to forget what this tastes like because there's really nothing else to compare it to.
And that's a huge credit to it. But like there's
**Poobah:** a cone, there's like almost a little bit of sweetness that reminds me of, it's like a cognac scotch bourbon hybrid. It's like, [00:35:00] it's like nothing I've ever had before.
**Gizmo:** I agree. And, and I want to point out when I'm talking about the nose having, uh, having a bit of, uh, What was the word we were using?
A funk, not, not, not a stank. A funk on it. That is not a detriment to me. That is a benefit. It stands alone, you know. For me, my nose, when I smell something that's very unique or powerful, I attach myself to it and I can remember it. And like Senator said, that is going to stick with me. The nose on this spirit is absolutely going to stick with me.
This is incredibly unique. And I think it's a merit to the spirit. It's not a negative. And back to
**Senator:** my earlier point, I will remember the viscosity and the mouthfeel of this. And I say that because we enjoy so much scotch. I, I don't look at McAllen, Balvini, really any of them in a glass and say, like, there's a lot of viscosity.
They're not that viscous of a spirit, but this is, and [00:36:00] it just, for me, It enhances the flavor that I'm able to extract from the spirit. Like it just coats my mouth where I'm getting every bit of flavor that is trying to deliver where for something that's less viscous, like most scotch, in my opinion, you know, it, that those flavor notes are more fleeting.
That's probably why I'm drinking it faster than I have to drink this, right? I can take a sip and this has, uh, Somewhat long finished just by the mouthfeel that I'm getting so much without having to keep sipping it. So aggressively exactly.
**Poobah:** And that's what kind of cognac has a little bit of that viscosity.
I think that's what that's all it's leading back. That's why I'm thinking like it's kind of a cognac thing because of the viscosity of it. So it's got the, like the. Like a little bit of viscosity too, which reminds me of a Cognac, but it's like a high proof spirit, which is like a bourbon, but then it's got these like musty notes, like a Scotch.
And you're like saying, what is this?
**Gizmo:** It's
**Poobah:** like a total hybrid, you know? It's a blend [00:37:00] or it's just a unique thing to what raw material
**Bam Bam:** they're sourcing. It gets better and better as you drink it. It gets a lot better. Yeah. It
**Poobah:** just continues to improve. And one piece of ice I think is really good to open
**Gizmo:** it up.
Yeah, I agree. I put very little ice in mine and I actually am happy that I did very little because I think, um, I think it just needed a touch. I don't, I don't think it needed a handful. It doesn't need a lot. I agree.
**Bam Bam:** Puglietto, what are you thinking?
**Pagoda:** Yeah, about the drink, I think I totally agree that I think it's, uh, I've started to enjoy it a lot more now.
I think when I initially smelt it, I thought it was a little overpowering, a little too strong for me. Uh, but as, um, you know, after putting some ice in, um, after the first couple of sips, I think I've begun to really enjoy it. In the beginning, what I found was, you know, um, I really enjoyed it when I took the first sip in the beginning, in the front of my palate.
Um, Got a lot of, uh, you know, different flavors, including the sweetness and the fruitiness. But when it went towards the back of my throat, I felt a bit of [00:38:00] the sharpness and, um, but that has dissipated. I've, uh, um, in the last couple of steps, I've really, really, really enjoyed it.
**Poobah:** Yeah. And it's like, it's, it's one of the things Ricky, Ricky Camacho, I think brought up.
That we have to think about with spirits. Um, it takes a second for your palate to kind of adjust, you know, like
**Gizmo:** for a higher proof spirit, for a higher
**Poobah:** proof spirit, like when he talks about Mezcal or he talks about higher proof tequila, like he's like. He's like, just take a timeout, let the drink, let the, let the spirit open up, go slow, you know, slow, go slow, let your palate adjust.
And then you'll find 10, 15 minutes later, you're, you're, your palate has now adjusted to it. And you're going, you're having
**Senator:** a different experience. Similar but slightly different. I think what Ricky was saying with a hyper spirit, you're like afraid of a hyper spirit at first. And so you take these little sips and your palate is like reacting [00:39:00] very strongly to trying to figure out what's going on.
Ricky's counsel was to actually take a large first sip of a high proof spirit to just really acclimate your palate. So like someone said, they like inadvertently when he was on, like took a gulp of whatever we were drinking. It was like, Whoa, that's a lot. But then their palate adjusted and every sip after that, they were able to enjoy more.
So I think with, with even this, it's like the first sip, you kind of actually want to take a large sip, let it coat your mouth and wake up your taste buds and then the rest of it. It's smooth sailing from there where your, your palate has understood
**Bam Bam:** what it's, it's got like a nectar like thing for me.
It's very, it, there's an, there's some enjoyment to this now and it did take time to get there. But now that I'm there, it's like smooth sailing the rest of the
**Gizmo:** night. Yeah. So, so
**Rooster:** bottom line, take bed gulps
**Pagoda:** and the quicker you drunk, the better it tastes.
**Gizmo:** I do think in all
**Poobah:** seriousness, it's, it's, it's [00:40:00] for the listener.
It's something to, when you're, if you're, when dealing with high, something that's a little higher proof, like over 80 proof, um, let the spirit open up, let your palate open up, then kind of do your evaluation. And I think that that, that has
**Senator:** merit that counts as opposed to the first sip, letting that be your evaluation.
That's usually not a practice with a high
**Pagoda:** proof spirit and fair enough. And I also think that knows, right? Like I think when you, At least for me, at least in terms of this spirit, it was just way overpowering and really strong, I felt. Um, and now it's like, uh, I can't imagine it's the same spirit as, uh, time has developed.
**Senator:** Well, that, that's another thing. I mean, honestly, with every spirit, and Pooh was saying this, as soon as we poured it, let it open up. I mean, the reality is, like, there are whiskey decanterists for a reason. Right. Any spirit. I've in fact, I have before I understood this open bottles of scotch [00:41:00] poured some in my glass, smelled the nose and said, Whoa, like I'm gonna have no nose hair after just like breathing that in like super hot and aggressive and for a normal proof, not even a higher proof spirit.
And it's just because it's been bottled up in there for a while and it does just need to open up and breathe. And then I revisit it after time and I say, Oh my gosh, it's like an entirely different spirit. So I also think it's good practice whenever you're opening a bottle of any spirit for the very first time, right?
Not every time you open it, just that first time you crack the seal. You want to just let it breathe for a little bit because it's likely going to be. You're going to be experiencing something hotter than that spirit really is.
**Gizmo:** Makes sense. I, I think for me, the education, and maybe this is kind of summing up everything we're kind of saying here, and experiencing a new type of spirit tonight that we, you know, this is the first time we're having an American single malt whiskey from the Hudson Valley, you know, of New York.
But what's interesting is I think about the journey we've gone on as far as [00:42:00] developing our palates with cigars, with spirits, with tequila, as we mentioned with Ricky, and how When we sit down to, to have a cigar and record a podcast or when we're in the lounge and we're not recording, we're committing that 90 minutes, two hours, whatever it may be.
And like you said, you guys have all said, you know, that first sip is very different than the last sip and your palates adjustment and your brain's reaction to that adjustment is very. In a lot of cases, staggering from first sip to last sip. So it's, you know, for the listener, it's a really important thing to give the spirit time, just like you give your cigar time before you cast judgment on it, because that first sip is not.
The place to cast judgment.
**Bam Bam:** Very mature comments from you, Giz. Well, listen, 110 episodes,
**Gizmo:** fam. I'm trying.
**Pagoda:** No, but you know, you're absolutely right. Because if you have any PD you drink, right? Like if you have the Lagavulin 16, for instance. And you're going to go through the same experience. Of course. [00:43:00] It kind of explains.
You know, the same thing, uh, you know, over,
**Gizmo:** especially if you, especially if you've not had a Petey Scotch like Lagaville, you need to nurse that,
**Senator:** especially if you judge it by the nose, you smell the nose of Lagaville and you're like, Whoa, it's going to be so Petey. You actually taste it and get it on your palate and you realize, sure, there's Pete there, but it's not aggressive.
It's not going to punch you in the face that like a Lafroig or something would. So you just, even the nose can't always judge the spirit, you know, I've,
**Gizmo:** I'm sorry, ma'am. I've watched some YouTube reviews of guys who pour a bunch of spirits, sip them, and as they take that first sip, they review them. And I've found in a lot of cases, our experience and my experience with those same exact spirits, having sat with them like we do on this podcast for 90 minutes or whatever it may be, I have a completely different experience because they're judging it on the first, second, third sip.
That's not the way to do it. You gotta let them breathe.
**Bam Bam:** There are, there are cigars and spirits that require patience. This, I would actually buy a bottle of this, this, I would [00:44:00] slot in for me because of the time that it takes to settle in with this drink. It's a great drink between Christmas and New Year's, nestle in next to the fire with a cigar and spend time with your stick and with your spirit.
That's a, that's a really, really good candidate
**Gizmo:** for a holiday drink. You know what's good, Bam, is that Puba paid the initiation fee so he can get us all bottled up. So thank you for doing that. Go ahead. Half price for that.
**Poobah:** And also, you know, I think what's, what's kind of cool about. Um, it's harder it look, it's easy to brew beer, you know, it's hard to, to, to make whiskey.
I mean, it's hard to make good beer. You
**Senator:** know, it's true. Nobody's making whiskey in their house. People are making beer in their homes. You
**Poobah:** know, so what, what these folks are doing is investing millions and millions of
**Bam Bam:** dollars. I will say though, I'm not sure if this is a drink for a novice. This is a sophisticated spirit.
I think it, it requires someone that's had a lot of spirits, different spirits, and that's got a [00:45:00] nose to invest the time. I probably wouldn't pull this out in a big party, but like a small intimate gathering of guys that have drank that know how to drink. That's a perfect,
**Gizmo:** perfect spirit. I think folks too, that like, if I think about myself.
Sipping this spirit three years ago, I, it would be a totally different conversation and experience than it is right now. I mean, we talked about my experience with Lagavulin at the old lounge when I first had it was exactly what we talked about when, when you, that first sip, it was like, I don't want to touch this ever again.
Get it away from me. It's gasoline now. Yeah, it's a lot different and it's the same journey as we've gone on with cigars. Totally agree that we've gone on with tequila and now with all different types of spirits, it's, it's a constant redeveloping of the palette that, and, and educating your brain on what you do and don't like that's, it makes the journey really interesting and
**Poobah:** an artisanal approach, which I appreciate.
**Bam Bam:** I would love. If Puba would organize a field, a lizard field trip up to [00:46:00] this distillery, I'm all in on that. By the way. All in.
**Poobah:** Totally. They have tours. We can go to Taconic Distillery, which makes, which makes great spirits. Get it on the calendar. Also, Little Rest, we could do it all in one day. And we could shoot around the sporting clays and shoot shotguns and have a great time.
Let's go play targets. I'll bring my dad. One of my main hobbies, giddy up one of my main hobbies and main loves in life, which is shooting,
**Gizmo:** shooting, sporting. So boys, we're beyond the halfway point here of the Dunbarton tobacco co Western Osaka, the bewitched. What's everybody feeling? I
**Bam Bam:** love it now. More than I've loved every other portion of the cigar.
Like, I was a fan of it at the light. I didn't like it right after. But I love it now.
**Gizmo:** You mentioned bitterness. I have not gotten an ounce of bitterness. Maybe
**Bam Bam:** what I was experiencing, for me, I got a lot of pepper. Right after the light, for like three quarters of an inch. And it just became really then beautiful and smooth.
It evaporated
**Gizmo:** for me. Initially,
**Rooster:** you do. [00:47:00] I think we all got some pepper. Yeah. But that sweet note, it
**Gizmo:** really balances the pepper. Well, now that's
**Bam Bam:** pronounced here. Yeah. And then
**Gizmo:** with
**Rooster:** coffee. With the coffee. That's right there. Yeah. Coffee, the sweet notes and, and, and a little bit of pepper. I mean, I don't know if it's black pepper.
Like you said, maybe
**Gizmo:** it's not, but. You're
**Bam Bam:** not getting that now though. No. No, it's
**Gizmo:** gone. It's dissipated.
**Rooster:** Yeah. Initially,
**Gizmo:** I mean, there was a little bit of, it's
**Bam Bam:** actually quite enjoyable right at this moment, right at the halfway mark.
**Senator:** The only thing I will say, so I, I really, I like the flavor notes I'm still getting out of this cigar and I think it's the spirit that is making me want this that I'm not getting.
I do wish that the smoke was a bit more viscous. I agree with that. And for the, the deep flavors, like I'm not getting light flavor notes out of this. I'm not getting like lighter fruit notes or floral. I'm getting like coffee, cocoa spice. These are like really [00:48:00] rich flavors. And I just wish that they lingered on my palate longer and that that smoke was more viscous.
So that's probably my only complaint. But I do like the flavor notes that I'm getting
**Poobah:** like, it's like more legal nine
**Senator:** blue smoke, right? Exactly. Like legal, that's a very viscous smoke. And I just wish I was getting a little bit more of that here. I
**Gizmo:** am glad though, if we want to make the comparison to legal, which I think is appropriate, given that, you know, that Saka made both of them, I think that I'm happy in a way that.
Where I would slot this is different than where I would slot the league and not like totally, this is earlier in my rotation than where I'm going to put a league way earlier. You know what I mean? I'm going to reach for that Liga after I've had a Cuban, maybe a Dominican or a lighter Nicaraguan, like the Oliva V Lancero, then I'm going to reach for the league and nine, this almost would kind of slot where I'd put the Oliva V.
Maybe after a Cuban or two in, in my night, maybe not even relying on having a full meal. I kind of like that. You [00:49:00] know, that's, it's a great rotation. That's kind of where I would put this, where the Liga really is like, it's, it's either going to be the Liga or it's going to be the Padron Exclusivo or something like that.
They're so distinct.
**Poobah:** It's almost like. If you're not in the mood for an exclusivo, which I don't know when that would ever be
**Gizmo:** correct. But, but, but Senator was, Senator was ready. If it's something you
**Poobah:** didn't have access, okay, let's rephrase it. Let's say you didn't have access to one retract. Um, um, this kind of delivers a little bit of that hybrid, but it's almost like a tone down.
Exclusivo, you don't get the sweetness in the earth and the deep it's, it's, it's, it's, it's not as deep, but it's very pleasant and it's very smokeable. Yeah. So like, I don't have a lot of complaints about the smoke. I mean, if somebody gave me this and it was a one and done and we're like, you know. It's an [00:50:00] after work dinner and someone says, Hey, here you go, whatever.
I'd be completely satisfied with the cigar and after a meal and be like, you know, awesome. Like, and go to, and then walk away satisfied. I get a question
**Bam Bam:** question. Is this a two act play so far for you guys?
**Gizmo:** As of at this moment, I was just about to say, I think so. And I'm hoping, and I'm curious if this last third or a little more than a third that I think I have here.
You're way ahead
**Senator:** of all of us. You're way, way ahead. I'm really enjoying it. So where I am at this point, it's one act. And that's, again, I'm the person who always says I'm, I'm great with a one act play as long as I like the act. It's been one act for me, but I, I'm probably like halfway. I still have
**Bam Bam:** much more to work through.
I'm surprised that pepper didn't become pronounced
**Gizmo:** for some of the other guys. I didn't get pepper at all. Only initially. Only at the beginning. Yeah.
**Senator:** And to your point, like, initially when I was getting it, I was a little bit worried that maybe it would pick up and get too [00:51:00] overpowering, but it like, it damped out pretty quickly.
**Bam Bam:** That's exactly right. Yeah. Which is very
**Gizmo:** common for the Nicaraguan cigars that we smoke. You know, I almost feel like this is almost in line with the pledge of allegiance. I feel like this is much more in line with what EP Carrillo is trying to do versus what Padron or Liga is trying to do. This is right in the EP Carrillo wheelhouse.
**Senator:** That's a great, great call out. Like we've talked about, and I think of EP Carrillo as a brand that tries to deliver bold Nicaraguan flavors, but in. A really smooth way, and that's what this is, right? I think Padron tries to do that smooth but still bolder, and certainly other brands that make Nicaraguans, and I mean Ligo that we've talked about, obviously really, really in your face, concentrated, intense flavor.
I, This is as close to an E. P. Carrillo as I seen. I just think that they've done it better than most E. P. Carrillos, but the style [00:52:00] is very similar.
**Poobah:** Agreed. I mean, yeah, some of that E. P. Carrillo DNA, but are they doing it better? Is it performing like consistently and where down the stretch, like, like the, the pledge prequel was just a shit show.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. Yeah. But the La Historia El Senador was not as an excellent cigar. And then the pledge of allegiance was one of the best cigars we've ever smoked. This is true in the El
**Bam Bam:** Senador for me had a, had a, a bolder body. Yeah. Right. And it was more, um, I'm not going to say strength, but there was, there was concentrated.
Yeah. Forward. Where this is just very smooth. There's a sophistication to the cigar that I like a lot right now. And
**Gizmo:** I like the subtle delivery. A lot of the flavors that we've talked about, it's very subtle. It's very subtle. It's there is a complexity to it. And I think the way it's rounded out by that unique sweetness that we've talked about, it's still there and every draw it's still there for me.
It makes it really
**Poobah:** pleasurable. You could easily [00:53:00] fall into criticizing this cigar and say, Oh, well, maybe it's muddled. It's not. I don't think it is. I don't, it's not, you could fall into that trap because it's kind of, I think it's kind of a one act play for me so far. Um, but that's a positive comment. Um, you could get easily trapped in like, well, it's, it's, it's, it's one dimensional.
It's, it's kind of delivering the same thing, but I'm kind of liking what it's delivering. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** It's very balanced.
**Senator:** Balanced. I agree with Puba because. There were moments early on that I was worried that maybe the flavors were going to be muddled or because you're not getting anything overly pronounced that they're all just dancing in the background, playing nicely together that you would sit there and say, like, well, maybe that's just a muddled cigar and you don't want getting something you want.
I think he's exactly right when Puba says like you could fall into that trap, but that's not what's happening here. [00:54:00] And I, we're thankful for that because it just delivers an enjoyable experience throughout just enough of every flavor, because
**Poobah:** that finish, the finish is long enough and it's lingering enough.
And you're, you're kind of like in between draws, you're saying, okay, and then you, then you draw again and you're getting, you're getting the separation. You're getting just enough separation, but it's, it's. Not muddled. It's a, it's a merit. It's a hybrid. Yeah, it's almost like it's very serendipitous This pairing and how many times has this happened?
Total action,
**Gizmo:** but by accident, we've not had either of them,
**Poobah:** but complete accident like I you know You could say this little rest American You know, single malt whiskey, not a Scotch, not a Scotch American single malt whiskey is got like, it's like a cognac, but it's not a cognac. It's like a, it's like a bourbon, but it's not a bourbon.
It's like a Scotch, but it's not a Scotch. [00:55:00] This is kind of like doing the same thing, which I find, I don't know, very. Weird, uh, that we were able, that these things kind of come together in this way. I will say that, you know, you know what I mean? It's, they're, they're hybrids.
**Bam Bam:** Yeah, there, one quick comment on novice cigar, cigar guys and gals out there.
What we're drinking and smoking tonight because It could be a little tough for some people initially, especially on the spirit, taking your time and being patient. Like you mentioned earlier, if you take your time and be very patient with it and give it and just give it the, the, the, the hour, hour and a half that it needs, you're going to get a lot of enjoyment in what you're smoking.
So take your time.
**Senator:** So I just want to add one bit of nuance. I'm, I'm generally in agreement when we're saying that. You know, maybe, maybe these are not for the novice smoker or drinker. I think just one important thing that I would add, scotch as a category is not for a novice. Agreed. So you, [00:56:00] you work your way through usually traditional bourbons and different American whiskeys and then you eventually graduate where your palate can appreciate the complexity of flavor that comes out of scotch.
And I think that this, for the person who is. Who's just started enough of that journey that wants to delve into scotch. To me, this is a perfect bridge into that, right? Like you're gonna, you're gonna take some of those traditional bourbon notes and start getting these other complex flavors here.
Absolutely. And then your palate is going to be perfectly primed and trained to be able to appreciate scotch. So. To me, this is like a gateway into Scotch and for a Scotch drinker that also drinks bourbon that knows those notes really well. I think there's tons to appreciate. And the same thing with this cigar.
I think for someone who smokes plenty of new world, especially Nicaraguan cigars, you're going to find lots of enjoyment. Like we are, I think for someone who smokes milder cigars, maybe not going to be their [00:57:00] thing. But I think for that person who maybe smokes. Milder cigars. And it wants to work. And let's say that they traditionally smoke like Honduran or Dominican tobacco, and they want to work into Nicaraguan tobacco.
That may usually be a bit too punchy or aggressive. This can be a bridge. This is the bridge to that. And I think that that's where so like I don't want it to sound like for either the spirit of the cigar. If you're a novice, like wholesale, as in like, you haven't been drinking these types of spirits a lot or smoking these types of cigars a lot.
This isn't for you. I don't think that's the case. I think it's for someone who even has been dabbling just enough, of course, and is looking to kind of take their journey to the next level. These are great. Gateways are bridges.
**Gizmo:** My point, my point was time. I think exactly. I think bam's point is more of
**Bam Bam:** taking your time with what we're smoking and drinking tonight.
Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Don't give up on it too. Right? Exactly. Right. Sit, sit for the hour and a half because of
**Bam Bam:** the nature of what we're smoking. These are both threshold or gateway [00:58:00] products, which can take you
**Gizmo:** into other worlds. Yeah. So boys, sit, Speaking of other worlds, I want to talk about the upcoming collaboration that we, we talked about on the podcast.
I think it was mid 22, mid 2022, the Padrone and Fuente legends collaboration. So there's 20 Padrone cigars and there's 20 Fuente cigars, each celebrating the patriarch of the other family. So the Padrone cigars are a celebration of. The Fuente family and the Fuente cigars are a celebration of Jorge Boone's father, uh, both, uh, both who passed away, I believe it was 20 16, 20 17 consecutive years.
So there's 20 Churchills, uh, from each brand, uh, which is, which are gonna be, uh, 50 ring gauge cigars by seven inches in a beautiful presentation of a. Humidor. Uh, Cedar humidor. Beautiful. Now, like I said, they announced it, I [00:59:00] believe a year and a half ago. It was supposed to come out last Christmas. It's now begun shipping as of Thanksgiving a few weeks ago, begun shipping to retailers.
And the official word is not out when it's coming out and what the cost is going to be. But we have heard some rumors. We have.
**Bam Bam:** I think these are just more than rumors. From specific retailers, one that we know. I hope they're not. That box, so, that box is 10,
**Gizmo:** 000. So that's 250 per cigar. It's a 10, 000 box. I don't
**Senator:** buy it.
Yeah,
**Bam Bam:** that's
**Gizmo:** what he's, that's what we've, that's what we're hearing. Do you have to buy the whole Hubert or for that reason
**Poobah:** you
**Pagoda:** said you don't buy it or you won't buy it.
**Gizmo:** So the, you know, so even if you're buying the individual cigars from retailers. You know what I said to Bam when he got this nugget of knowledge about the price, uh, which is very legitimate.
I'm hoping that it's kind of like the Padron 50th that we did on our episode 100 [01:00:00] where the initial humidor was a certain cost and then the refills ended up being much more reasonable. But even at, even if you pare it down, a 250 cigar is not going to go. To a 50 cigar. So what we're looking at is a very, very, very expensive experience with both of these cigars.
**Senator:** I'm just going to start by saying obviously I adore both these families. What they have done for cigars will always be regarded as having some of the biggest impacts on the cigar industry in history. And on us. And on us. I will say I'm skeptical and I hope that my skepticism proves to be correct. In the sense that I just, I mean, you study the history of these families, and especially Padron.
These are not families that are about trying to put out 100, 200 dollar cigars. Now, Opus, I'm just gonna put in a [01:01:00] box unto itself, because they do stuff like this.
**Gizmo:** But that's exactly why it might be real. Well, that's, uh, Which is
**Senator:** terrifying. It is. But I'm just going to put that in a box because Arturo Fuente represents a whole lot more than just Opus.
Founded that entire, I mean, Arturo Fuente, just the, the regular standard line is what built that entire operation, that empire. And on the Padron side, I mean, they've never put out a cigar that costs more than what, 50? 50 bucks. Right. And that's not because they can't. I mean, let's be real. If they put out a hundred dollars cigar, we would probably buy it.
We would. we know what they make is good. And so it's, there's a philosophy behind each of those patriarchs, which is that a cigar should not cost an arm and a leg to enjoy the highest of levels. So for those reasons, I, I will just say, I would be supremely disappointed if that actually ends up being the price point, because I don't think that does justice to either patriarch.
That's not what this was about. I mean, [01:02:00] you read their stories. We've detailed their history in prior episodes, what they've gone through and what they're trying to deliver for the world. It is not about being the highest price cigar. It's about producing the best cigar. And that's why I have so much respect for them.
That's why as much as I love plenty of Davidoff's products, I do get critical sometimes because it's not always just that it's also about. These really high, I mean, they have an Oro Blanco 500 cigar. I mean, that's just patently ridiculous. I am never, ever going to buy that cigar. I don't care if I was Jeff Bezos, I'm still at a principal, not going to pay that amount of money for a cigar.
**Bam Bam:** You're also not going to pay 250 for this collaboration either.
**Senator:** Well, I hope
**Gizmo:** not
**Senator:** because the reality is I have to try it.
**Poobah:** The question is, well, the, the, the actual box, the humor that it. That it comes in. I, I don't know the high, how high quality that is or if that
**Gizmo:** piece of looks, artwork. It looks very similar in quality to the humidor.
The hammer, it actually looks at nearly as a, [01:03:00] like a sister. Two. The hammer, the, the hammer humidor of the 15.
**Senator:** That's, that's where I was about to finish. So I mean,
**Poobah:** there's some sort of thing, if there's some sort of thing that puts. Pushes that as a piece of art right over the edge. Do you know what I mean?
Where you're not actually pricing the cigar into the humidor, into the, into the art piece. So do you separate the cigar costs from the art? Well,
**Gizmo:** that was my point about what the hammer is. There was a refill mechanism, which brought the price of the original hammer in the humidor, which was a hundred dollars per cigar.
It halved it. It went down to 50 a cigar, which is what we all buy them for. As of this moment. That is not the case. Is it going to be the case in two years, six months, a year after maybe they sell or don't, however it happens, very much may be the case, but if it's a 250 cigar initially, it's not going down to under a hundred bucks.
No, but is
**Poobah:** it, but [01:04:00] is that humidor that it comes in? Is that like, I don't know how that's me. How is that made? I don't know. Is it handmade?
**Senator:** It's probably very nice. We can assume it's going to be spectacular.
**Poobah:** It's that price, you know. Like that's priced in like, like, like, like how elaborate is that? How beautiful is that?
Are you really actually buying the humidor and buying that as an art piece? The
**Senator:** point is the cigar that we all want to try, just like every other listener. The question is what price point is that going to be at? Right. So the people who want to go and have this great collectible humidor. Wonderful. If you want to spend 10, 000, go right ahead.
I don't think there's any disagreement there. We all expect that's going to be. A premium. And if they're smart and I'm, I have no doubt, right, there's going to be a limited number of these. They're probably even all numbered great for people that want to drop 10, 000 on that. Not me, but go right ahead. But the point is the cigar that everyone's going to want to try.
These are meant to honor their fathers, right? I would hope that that is at a [01:05:00] reasonable enough, certainly a premium price point. I mean, none of us, when we even first heard this collaboration was happening, expected the cigar would be anything less than 50 and likely more than that. But I just hope it is in some reasonable worlds that, you know, most people can try to
**Gizmo:** enjoy it once.
So let me, let me say a couple of things here. So from a mentality standpoint of Padron and Fuente, there's a couple of factors that I think come into play here. I think number one, comparative to what, what, uh, what Senator said about the price of that really expensive Davidoff, if they enter the market at a two, 250 cigar, and it comes down to 175, 150, they're still not even close to the higher end or the highest end, let's say, of the market.
Number one, number two, you look at global cigar prices and what has happened over the last few years. Pedrona and Fuente neither, aside from the really rare Opus, which I think a lot of that is inflated in the secondary [01:06:00] market or even at the dealer level beyond the MSRP due to demand. I mean, we even experienced that with the eye of the shark, which is a Don Carlos release.
That's not an Opus. Okay. We experienced that there. So the demand plays into
**Senator:** the price. Just quickly there, right? Like the retail price of that cigar is like less than that. I think it's 20 something dollars, but retailers are selling for like 40 a stick. That's
**Gizmo:** right. Right. So you have to factor that. And I think too, you look at what happened with Cuban cigars, which I don't think can be ignored.
Even though we're talking about a primarily us market, people are still paying the high end prices for Cohiba, Trinidad, et cetera, globally. And I think that also plays into their mentality. And finally, and I think this might be the most important piece of their pricing structure is a significant piece of the revenue is going to charity.
So I think that those three factors, uh, validate the potential price being at 175, 200, 250 cigar, because those three [01:07:00] things, if I'm them, validate this cigar being a very, very expensive cigar, especially when you can buy an opus, very similarly priced, you can buy a Cohiba. For three, four, $500, you know, on the global market.
So what I'm concerned with is that for everything we've just discussed, that the cigars are in fact ongoing going to be two, $250. And that is a real bummer of course, because I mean, if we're sitting in this room and we decide to do a podcast on that, that's gonna be a $3,500 night, Brad.
**Poobah:** It's outrageous.
Can I, can I ask a stupid question though? But are, are they gonna. I'm not as in tune with the new world market as I am with the Cuban market. So are you saying that this collaboration between Padron and Fuente for this release, this humidor and the cigars within, they're going to make cigars. Those [01:08:00] same cigars that you can refill, like, in other words, are those going to be available?
**Gizmo:** We don't know. We're making assumptions. We don't know.
**Poobah:** In other words, or is it just, if you buy that human or, and that's
**Gizmo:** it? We know. I think that I think Padron and Fuente for getting the price point are wiser than assuming that there's plenty of consumers out there, especially the ones who spend the kind of money on their, their day to day cigars.
Like we do, they're not going to cut those consumers out entirely. They're going to put the. The price at an arguably unreasonable level. I think that 250 is an unreasonable price for what we're talking about. I don't care how nice the Cedar is. I don't care how nice the lacquer is, and I don't care how nice the gold foil
**Poobah:** logos are.
Maybe other people do. Okay,
**Gizmo:** fine. But, but, but, but still ignoring all the art component of the boxing of it, that cigar. Is going to be unreasonably priced hoping. I mean,
**Rooster:** even if they come out with singles, [01:09:00] you're gonna want to try both of them. Of course, of course.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, if you can afford. So here's what I want to get to.
This is where I want to get to is my pointing my pointing of those those different variables that we just talked about. Do you think that's an unreasonable assumption with the pricing? For these cigars. I don't think they're gonna come down under 150 bucks. Do you guys agree with that?
**Bam Bam:** Um, look, if it was 150, I'd go out and buy two cigars.
I would do that. But at 250, it's outrageous.
**Senator:** I won't. I'm sorry. The more I'm having this conversation, look, I'm a very principled person. Yeah. Here's where I would be okay with what I'm hearing. If this was just some collaboration that they just decided for the fun of it, right, Padron and Fuente price it, whatever the hell you want.
I really don't care. The fact that this was meant to honor their fathers, they know them better than anybody. We only know history that we've read about everything these men have done. And I'm sorry. I personally think it [01:10:00] is disgraceful. To honor those two guys with something like this. I just there's no way that arterial Fuente or Jose Padron would ever think it's acceptable to release a cigar at 250 or even 150 a stick.
They never did it while they were alive. It's never did anything remotely near that. So to my disappointment is simply because this is meant to honor them. That's how this whole thing. Thing started, and I think that they, if that's the case, the pricing that I'm hearing, I think they've completely failed to do that.
I really do. And at a principle, I, I, I, there's no way that I want to buy cigars at that price point, if that was the intended purpose, because I don't think that honors either of those guys. Is
**Poobah:** the, but is the intended purpose, um, to Gizmo's point before is. We don't know what percentage of the sales is going to charity.
You said there [01:11:00] was a charity component. There is a charity component.
**Gizmo:** Okay. So there's not announced what the percentage or they probably
**Poobah:** won't know that information. We also don't know the information in regard to whether they're going to, are they going to produce these cigars beyond the release? We don't know that information.
And if the box itself to your point, Giz is not an evolution or not something that's like really impressive, is it, you know, does it justify the cost? That, that, that's the thing. So are you buying an art piece for charity, basically with these premium cigars in it? And it's going to be limited and that's it.
Or are they going to keep producing this collaboration, these, these cigars and keep selling them for refill with no one, nobody knows. We don't know
**Gizmo:** yet. We don't know yet. I think the assumption, if you're going to put out something and honor your fathers, which they both [01:12:00] have done over and over and over again, the family reserve line, They're the, the, the man's 80th from, from Don Carlos, you know, these, these men in, in Fuente have built, arguably built their business, built their entire marketing strategy on celebrating their families and their heritage.
So I think the assumption that it would be. Only limited to these, these high priced humidors, high priced clients. But I think that assumption is, is I think they're going to continue making the
**Bam Bam:** cigars. They've also built their empires on affordable cigars that are very high quality that people love, and that's what they're known for.
And that's what Senator is saying, the disconnect, this goes completely against the grain, what they've done in their entire
**Poobah:** history, but we're making an assumption that they're going to continue to make the cigar and charge this super high premium for it, which is disconnected from their brand ethos for both brands.[01:13:00]
So maybe we don't. We don't know. Maybe we don't jump to jump to conclusions. Am I, am I crazy to answer
**Senator:** your question? I, I would not be willing to pay more than a hundred dollars per stick. Yeah. That's my, that's my,
**Gizmo:** that's where I'm at. And that's what I was honestly the highest. And that's my absolute ceiling.
Here's where I, where I was 150 discount a year and a half ago when we first talked about this. My hope was that the human or was going to come out with these 40 cigars for about five grand. And then the refills were going to come out somewhere around a hundred a stick. Unfortunately, the initial price is about double that.
And we'll see what happens on the refills if they continue making them. But the, you know, the initial spend on that is just. Unfortunately, like you said, Senator, it's just disconnected from both brands ethos. I don't care if they give 95 percent of it to charity, it's disconnected, and it's not in line with what our collective understanding of
**Senator:** both brands is.
Exactly. Because even if 95 percent of that went to charity, the [01:14:00] number of people that exist in this country, let alone this world, that can donate, that have a few hundred dollars in extra income to donate to charity, it does not exist. Right? Most people live paycheck to paycheck. I mean, it is just outrageous to exclude the overwhelming majority of cigar consumers.
**Bam Bam:** 95 percent of consumers are being completely excluded.
**Gizmo:** Absolutely. Correct. Which,
**Bam Bam:** which, you know, I will say the retailer I talked to. He was also very surprised at
**Gizmo:** the price. Yeah, and he was disappointed. Very. You made it seem like he was very disappointed. He
**Bam Bam:** was. Yes. Now, I'm hoping that that price is not accurate.
I'm hoping that there was some sort of a disclosure that he had to give to people prior to actually getting the product. I don't
**Gizmo:** know. Yeah, we'll see. The
**Senator:** only thing I'll say that I was happy to hear when you described that, the one thing I did not know that I was thrilled to hear was that they're going to be Churchills.
Mm hmm. I mean, we talked about how much we love a Churchill cigar and how few of them really exist. And even in new worlds, the only new world Churchill [01:15:00] that we regularly smoke is the Davidoff late hour
**Gizmo:** Churchill and the Diplomatico from, and the
**Senator:** Diplomatico. I mean, that's two. And in Cubans, we know we can count them on one hand as well.
So that was really exciting to me. I just hope that they're at a reasonable price point that we and other people can enjoy them.
**Gizmo:** Right. So just like all everybody listening to this podcast right now, all of us in the room here, we'll see what happens, but the trend, it's not trending. In a good direction as of this exact moment.
So, and it's disappointing to me to say that about two of the most prolific, celebrated, successful and brilliant, uh, cigar manufacturers making cigars that we love. It's disappointing that we're at this point today, understanding what this new release.
**Poobah:** I'm optimistic. I think that maybe it'll, it'll work out.
Okay. I
**Gizmo:** hope
**Poobah:** so. Because I, I do think to the points that everybody made before that these founders These, the, the legacies of these founders, [01:16:00] um, of both families take this seriously. I think they're sensitive to it. I know that, that, that certainly, you know, you guys have met them. Let's hope that the, you know, this comes out as not some sort of, you know, bad PR or bad, you know?
Yeah. We'll see. Bad move. But I, I, I, I, I have faith in Padron and Fuente. Yeah. We shall see. We shall see.
**Gizmo:** So speaking of fancy humidors, boys, you talked about special stuff that might make a humidor worthwhile. Uh, did you guys see, where are we going? Daniel, Daniel Marshall special. No, that, uh, that new world Cohiba red dot Cohiba put out a special humidor priced at, and we care 5, 500 for 106 Toros.
With a biometric fingerprint scanner. Would that make the Padron Fuente humidor worth 10, 000? Can you imagine your Cohiba red dot Cohiba putting out a [01:17:00] humidor for 5, 500 5, 500 With a biometric fingerprint scanner. First off, who wants to steal Red Dot Cohibas? a market.
**Senator:** I want to be locked out of a Red Dot Cohibas.
**Bam Bam:** Thank you. Thank you. Marketing Gimmick 101. This is Marketing Gimmick 101.
**Senator:** But I just, you know, what's disappointing is this is the direction we're headed. Right. This crap is happening all the time. Cuban and new world, both are guilty of this. I mean, how many of these cigars that come out and these fancy, beautiful looking human doors, and they build that into the price and most of the time, they're not actually worth the price, right?
You're, you're basically buying just like a nice box and the cigars are just mediocre. Sometimes the box is beautiful on the cigars actually are deserving of it. But either way, like, this is not what this is about. No, this is not a humidor that you're going to store cigars in. This is just some random collector's item that as far as I'm concerned, has no bearing on the cigar itself.
**Bam Bam:** We care about the cigar that is [01:18:00] paramount. Number one, important item, the cigar. That's it. I mean,
**Senator:** Padrone boxes are reused for Christ's sake. Of course. They come with like dings on them. Dings and like they're beat up. And that's a great thing. And like that's sustainable. That's wonderful. Why waste
**Bam Bam:** so many boxes?
Right. And those boxes contain a world class product.
**Senator:** Despite the fact that they're reused, I actually think Padron boxes are some of the nicest cigar boxes
**Gizmo:** on the market. Yeah, I agree. Agreed. So there it is, boys. The Cohiba humidor opened up. Alright. With, uh, 106 Toros in it for 52 a piece. Yeah, it's for tools.
5, 500. Limited to 130 pieces. So after everybody in the room buys them, they'll be down to 119 or something. I can't even do the math. I'm so disgusted by this. So boys, we're in the last third here of the Muestra de Saca, the Bewitched. What's everybody thinking?
**Bam Bam:** Can't say one negative word
**Gizmo:** about the cigar.
I have enjoyed, I enjoyed the [01:19:00] last third, man. It's been really, really
**Bam Bam:** good. To the final inch, it's so
**Gizmo:** enjoyable. Yeah, I've really been enjoying it. Oh yeah. I thought that the last third Picked up in a very nice way. Maybe it was the heating up of the tobacco, but it gave me a little bit of an oomph at the end, which was very pleasurable.
It wasn't too much. It didn't get spicy. It wasn't a punch in the face, but I really enjoyed the journey from light all the way to the end.
**Senator:** I think the final third got earthier. Yeah. That's
**Gizmo:** a good word, actually. Yeah. And
**Bam Bam:** slightly minerally. Yeah. I got
**Gizmo:** like a T note, like a T that's
**Senator:** not wrong. Now we're definitely back to EP Korea.
That's the only one of the few cigars that I've legitimately gotten
**Bam Bam:** strong. So you went, you went from coffee to tea,
**Gizmo:** roasted coffee. No, I
**Poobah:** disagree. It's like a leafy note. Um, it's like a, it's like a gardening note, but. Yes, man. Drink a lot of tea. So it can [01:20:00] kind of relate to the tea note. Good cigar. Good cigar though. Overall is nice. Really nice experience for me. And
**Bam Bam:** poop is still taking it
**Poobah:** down. Yeah. I mean, you guys know me in new worlds and our relationship, which is, which, which, which, which can be contentious.
At times, I'm very, uh, very proud of you tonight, but, but this, this was really nice. This is super
**Gizmo:** nice.
**Senator:** The other thing, I'm glad how we're talking about this cigar is not like your standard, um, really powerful Nicaraguan cigar. I mean, this is a Toro, this is a big extra cigar. Extra Toro. Extra extra. Yeah.
So. I'm so grateful that they've delivered this the way they have, because if this were a traditional Nicaraguan cigar in a Toro Extra, I mean, it would just be too much.
**Gizmo:** You know, that is a great point, and we just talked about Padron at length. It again points to the brilliance of Padron using Nicaraguan puro, that it's all Nicaraguan tobacco and creating something that is so smooth [01:21:00] and easy to smoke and how many other Nicaraguan puros we've had that deliver the exact opposite experience.
So here's the thing. It's, it's gotta be really difficult to blend that. Agreed.
**Bam Bam:** Guys and gals that have a power alley. will like the cigar because it's so smooth. I'm looking right at you, Pagoda. This is a pretty good candidate for you. I think I'm loving it.
**Pagoda:** Right. Every, every minute of it. I've really enjoyed it from the beginning to the end.
**Rooster:** Yep. Yeah. I, I, I must say like, get rid of the box and sell it for 15 bucks.
**Poobah:** I agree. Get rid of the box, get rid of the foot bands and, and, and rock on. But, but you get 1499.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. If this was a 15 cigar. Now, here's a question for you. I know we're going to get to the ratings in a minute, but from a value perspective or where you would slot it, where, where does this kind of fit into your rotation as of right this moment?
What do you think about the value of it? Like is 20 too expensive?
**Bam Bam:** No, I don't think it's a lot of money for this. And I kind of liked your, your take on where you slot it in. [01:22:00] It could be right prior to your, uh, uh, Session of Cubans start off with this and going right into Cuba line could be after a Cuban prior to Exclusive at night.
**Senator:** I think the Vitola really matters here I mean if this were a Robusto when you told me was 20, I would say that's too much true That's where I'd really be pushing for that 15 price point. But this is a big cigar So at 20, I don't think that's all that unfair. It's not a crazy price. Yeah, not at
**Rooster:** all. I mean, I, I mean, I think about the Davidoff Dominicana, which is exactly around 20 bucks.
That is, that's a
**Senator:** Robusta.
**Gizmo:** That's a Robusta.
**Bam Bam:** Is that better than this?
**Senator:** It's different. It's very different. Way better. Way better. Very different. Is
**Bam Bam:** it better than this? Way better than this ?
**Poobah:** Yes. I mean, it is better,
**Bam Bam:** yeah. To be honest. It's okay.
**Senator:** I agree with PI have a, I have a different opinion. You've heard me say this before.
I, I truly think that sometimes certain products are not competing against each other. I don't see the Dominican, and this is at all competing for the same space and time in your life. [01:23:00] I think the Dominican is competing for like that after dinner, like full bodied experience. And I don't think this even wants a seat at that table.
I think that this is like, I can enjoy this before a meal and I can enjoy this after a lighter meal, not as heavy a meal. So, um, for me, it's not a question of which is better. I would, the cigars I would compare this to are just different. Right.
**Gizmo:** I agree. Now, where would you slot it, Rooster, if you were to smoke the cigar again?
**Rooster:** Um, I mean, this is, it's very versatile. I mean, I could smoke this in the daytime. Not an issue. I could even smoke it in the morning. Yeah,
**Gizmo:** I agree with that. With a cup of coffee, breakfast. I was
**Bam Bam:** about to say, a coffee with this would be quite nice. I
**Senator:** agree, yeah. A smaller Vitola for sure, but I agree.
**Gizmo:** Yeah. So, are you guys ready to move into the ratings?
We'll start with the, uh, the little rest. American single malt whiskey. Sure. Alright, Bam Bam, you're up.
**Bam Bam:** And you know, we've talked about this thing here, the, the, the hybrid that this thing is between a bourbon and a scotch. It's just, it's so enjoyable [01:24:00] early on a little tough, but three sips in, I want more of my, my glass is empty.
I'll take more of it price aside. I gotta go nine. Because of that unique experience, it's a very different spirit. I've never had anything like this before. For me personally, I'm giving it a nine.
**Gizmo:** Okay, Pagoda.
**Pagoda:** Uh, for me it's an eight. I, I think, uh, on the nose it was very harsh for me in the beginning. I do think, uh, with a couple of chips of ice, it really, uh, in fact, dramatically made a difference.
I think for a 180 bottle where you need a lot of ice to really, uh, you know, really enjoy the spirit. I think for me, um, it's not something I would go and buy. Um, maybe I, I would definitely enjoy it. I think it's an eight for me. I, it's very difficult for me to recommend something which is that expensive and has a very, uh, you know, contentious [01:25:00] kind of an experience for me personally.
Yeah.
**Gizmo:** Senator.
**Senator:** So I can't disagree with either of you because I think your points are valid and I agree with everything each of you said even though you came at different ratings and I've been going back and forth between an eight and a nine. I'm going to round up and I'm going to give it a nine. And the reason for it.
There are few spirits, especially at this point, right, a hundred and something episodes in that I would say deliver something unlike anything else I've ever had. The fact that we all have been able to say that about this is a huge merit. The price point is high and I understand why. I mean, number one, what they've done, the fact that we're saying it's unlike anything else, it's not easy to do that.
And for a small distiller in New York state, I mean, I can't imagine the cost that they have to produce this, right? It's gotta be very high. I would absolutely drink this again. [01:26:00] And I'm even just, I'm already thinking about like when I would want it, right? Like around holidays, this would be an amazing conversation piece to
**Bam Bam:** like taste this.
Like I said, between, for me, between Christmas and New Year, that week. And Thanksgiving. Yeah. And Thanksgiving, after a Thanksgiving meal. Oh, off the charts, I think.
**Senator:** Yeah. Um, so just, there's so many things that impress me about what they've done with this. And I do recommend anybody who loves bourbon or loves scotch, I think there's something in it for really everybody.
I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go with a nine.
**Gizmo:** So I'm also at a nine. Absolutely. I, I enjoyed this from the first sip. The nose was so interesting to me. Um, I, I think this really stands on its own. Can I have more please? Yeah, me too. I wish I had a bottle or two of this for the holidays coming up. That would be really great.
Unfortunately, I don't. So hopefully we'll be able to get some in the future. But this was a really, really, really, Excellent whiskey tonight. So I'm very, very happy with a [01:27:00] nine Puba.
**Poobah:** Um, I'm in lockstep. I, I, for me, it's a nine. I think that it, for all the reasons we stated, you know, in the commentary during the, during the podcast, it's interesting and it's fun and it's different and it's American made and it's local and it delivered something that was, then then you pour the spirit.
And it aligns with the ethos and everything that they're talking about. And you drink it and there was cinnamon. Like, like if we were pairing this with a D four, there was cinnamon there. Yeah. There was, there was complexity to this whiskey. That's just different. It's, it's like, it's not a bourbon. It's not, it's not a Scotch.
It's not a Cognac, but it had the viscosity kind of of a Cognac. So I think what they're doing is creative. And [01:28:00] that to me, that's innovation. And I think people who are out there innovating, whether it's with cigar blends or whether it's with. Distilling, which is a hell of a lot, I think, complex and more expensive to do.
It was really a cool experience. I, you know, I only had one taste of this before I brought this bottle here to introduce it to you guys. I didn't know how it would go over. I didn't know how much I'd like it. I, you know, I found it very interesting and, um, I really enjoyed it. So I'm going to give it a nine.
It was, it was complex and interesting and cool and, uh, for that, I give
**Bam Bam:** it a nine. It's going to be an elite, uh, composite
**Gizmo:** score. So the formal liquor rating, boys, is an 8. 8. Yeah, it's very good. An 88 tonight. That's a great score. Very good score.
**Senator:** Just two things that Puba said, I just quickly want to emphasize.
Number one, the cinnamon note you called out, I'm, I can't believe I didn't mention that [01:29:00] earlier. You really do get this and saying this would pair really well with a D4. I actually agree. I think it would. And the second thing, just Puba mentioning how the spirit itself actually really aligns with the ethos.
Is important because think of how many spirits that we've reviewed on this podcast, where there's some elaborate story as to how they came up with this interesting new spirit and it totally falls flat, right? Fruity decadence. Fruity decadence. I mean, there's a dime a dozen of these experiences and for this to be one of the few that every word they say, they actually deliver on.
True. Deserves a world of credit. It's
**Gizmo:** true. So the one thing I wanted to just pile on really quickly before we get to the cigar rating is, you mentioned the D4, the Partagas D4, I think, and I felt this almost from the first sip with that little, you know, funk that we were talking about, I think that this would do really well with most Cuban [01:30:00] cigars.
You know, even, even absent the cinnamon note that you might get in D4, I think this would do really well with a Bolivar. I think this would do really well with a Monte Cristo. Yeah, not every cubicle. Not every one, but I think there's a lot of the, uh, an H Upman number two, it would go really well with.
**Bam Bam:** Honestly, the E2 with this guy?
**Senator:** That too. It's like, it'd be great with this firmly medium Cuban cigars, mild Cuban cigars. No, but firmly medium. I love the call outs. I agree. Monty too. I mean, all the Bolivar, Bellicosa's feet. I mean, yeah, they'd be home runs. Yeah.
**Gizmo:** All right, boys, let's move into the formal lizard rating of the moisture to SACA.
The bewitched rooster you're up.
**Rooster:** So I really enjoyed the cigar. It was very, I wouldn't say complex, but very balanced and left a long finish. I like the notes that I was getting out of the cigar. So, but I'm at an eight.
**Poobah:** Okay. Puba. Yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm between an eight and a nine. I was too. [01:31:00] Um, I'm between an eight and a nine.
Um, I'm taking price out of it. I'm taking everything out. I've given other cigars nines. I mean, I, I smoked it down to the end. I'm going to go out in the limb and give it a nine because I'm going to, yeah, I am. Because it delivered a very nice experience and a very pleasurable experience for me tonight.
So that's where I'm going to go.
**Gizmo:** I'm also at a nine. I normally wouldn't reach for this size. I certainly, if I saw this in a shop, in the coffin, it would not attract my eye to it. Um, but when we pulled it out of that coffin, out of the cellophane, took the foot band off, finally got the cigar in our hand.
It was really, really handsome, and from that first cold draw all the way to the last draw, Putting the cigar down as a nub. I really, really enjoyed the experience tonight. I'm so pleased that I found it to be a medium to maybe at the end medium full [01:32:00] affair. I thought that was really great. So I'm very comfortable with the nine.
I think that we absolutely need to try more of the soccer releases from Dumbarton. Agreed. Senator.
**Senator:** So I'm aligned that we need to try more. This was definitely a revelation for me, having never heard of this brand or certainly tried any of their cigars. I like, I suspect everybody before me has been deciding between an eight and a nine.
I think for the cigar, I'm going to go with an eight. And it's not to say that this wasn't very close to earning a nine, but the only. My only complaint, the reason that I had to round down a little bit, is the spirit I needed to help the cigar sometimes deliver more flavor that I wanted, and the final third.
I did not enjoy as much as the first two thirds, and so I will, I would definitely smoke this again. Um, I'm also gonna slightly ding it on the [01:33:00] presentation. I'm sorry, it's a 20 cigar. There's no reason that I should be disappointed with the presentation. I still will vividly always remember opening that coffin, and I just don't think it looks particularly great.
Um, but what they've done, taking Nicaraguan tobacco and blending this in a way that delivers such a smooth and enjoyable experience throughout, deserves a world of credit, and that's why an eight is a strong recommend. Sure. Definitely smoke it again. I would recommend it to someone. I'd hand this to someone for them to try.
But um, the only thing that precludes it for me from that nine is, uh, there were just Several moments that I wanted more and I love Nicaraguan tobacco. So, you know, I'm kind of in the Padron camp in between like a league and this, and, um, if it just would have gave me a little more of that, it would have rounded up.
But for those reasons, I'm going to be at a solid eight.
**Gizmo:** Pagoda.
**Pagoda:** Yeah, for me, it's a nine. Um, you know, I was thinking about the pledge of allegiance and I, I think I'd give it a 10, um, because I [01:34:00] enjoyed some of, uh, a little bit of the citrusy and, uh, Uh, what I'd call the orange, the marmalade kind of flavor profile, which was present in the Pledge of Allegiance.
When I had this, as it was somewhat reminiscent of it in the beginning, very pleasant on my lips, in the front of the palate, I think. After an inch, inch and a half, I think the, the second, whatever, there were about a couple of inches where it did feel very musky, I think, when you took it right in the thing, and I think that's what brought the rating down a bit, but
**Gizmo:** having said that.
I did too. I like that.
**Pagoda:** But having said that, it's been overall a very, very pleasant experience. Uh, I will smoke it again. I will recommend it to my friends. And I think a lot of the people I know who smoke cigars are gonna enjoy this. Uh, for me, it's a definite nine.
**Gizmo:** Okay,
**Bam Bam:** bam. Alright, well, you know, I'm down to less than a half inch.
And that's rare for a new world. I have no ammonia, [01:35:00] no bitterness at all. So it's still extraordinarily smooth, and I'm still retrohailing at this point. For 20 bucks, I have to give this a 9, because it's so, for me, I have the exact opposite take that you have, Senator. The middle and end for me were incredible.
Incredible. The beginning was okay, but for me, it still merits a 9 because of how smooth it is right down to the very end. Listen,
**Pagoda:** if Poober gives the new world a A nine. It's so difficult to
**Bam Bam:** go below that. It's very high praise.
**Pagoda:** Lizard, just for that, I'm gonna give it a nine again. It's a nine, a nine, a nine.
Okay.
**Gizmo:** So boys, the formal lizard rating on the Dunbarton Western Osaka, the Bewitched, is an 8. 7. Wow. That
**Bam Bam:** is very high
**Gizmo:** praise. So let's compare it to some of the cigars we talked about tonight. We'll start with E. P. Carillo We did the pledge prequel which was as we know was the cigar of the year a couple years ago We did that on episode 5 a long time ago that got a 6.
5. [01:36:00] Not good We did the E. P. Carillo La Historia El Senador. We talked about that that we did that on episode 19 That was a winner at 8. 8 And then we did the Pledge of Allegiance, the limited edition from 2023 America on episode 87, and that got a 9. 6. So this falls right in, you know, right under the La Historia El Senador.
It's a good score. Uh, and certainly, you know, about 10 points under the Pledge of Allegiance from E. P. Carrillo. The other one I think we should mention just because of Steve Saka, of course, is the Liga No. 9 that we did. Uh, we did that quite some time ago as well on episode 10 and that got an 8. 4. So this did edge the League of Provada number 9.
Episode
**Bam Bam:** 10. Episode 10. 100
**Pagoda:** episodes ago. Wow. But I do think that we were very conservative when we started reigning, Scott.
**Senator:** Uh, you, you can't change your ratings.
**Gizmo:** I've been waiting to say that. I think
**Pagoda:** I would've spoke Liga 9
**Gizmo:** again. You know what? I, I also want to mention just for the sake of it, [01:37:00] because you did mention the Papas Fritas with the footband.
The Liga Provada Unico Papas Fritas on episode 102. That was delicious. 8. 2. So that was about five points lower than this. So,
**Senator:** I mean, there's a theme here, right? All of these cigars that he's had a hand in, Saka, have all done very well. Yeah, they've done very
**Gizmo:** well on the podcast. All of
**Bam Bam:** them. Ediyav, thank you for the recommend.
**Gizmo:** Yeah, excellent night. So, great pairing boys. What a surprise. You know, I think the hybrid nature of both the cigar and the spirit tonight really was an interesting, you know, component to our discussion and our experience tonight. So, certainly for all the listeners out there, I encourage you, you know, we encourage you to go out and try Dunbarton.
And I think that this means that we will certainly be trying some more on the pod. Certainly call out to listeners. We need recommendations. We've gotten a lot of great recommendations over the last few weeks from folks, uh, of cigars. We need to smoke in 2024. We also need spirits. So a good example is an American single malt whiskey.
If you like an American single malt whiskey, you appreciate that and you drink it. Tell [01:38:00] us what that is, and we'll try it on the podcast. We need recommendations, so please, uh, share that with us. And also, of course, coming up at the end of the month here is our Best of 2023, so please let us know some of your favorite moments.
Uh, if it's a review, if it's something funny, if it's the Bam Bam Accountability Hour, we need to know how much of that to put in. No. The whole thing, all of it. That episode is going to be 8 hours long. But please send us any notes you have on some of your favorite stuff from 2023. Alright boys, a great night tonight.
We did the Little Rest American Single Malt Scotch Whiskey. That got an 8. 8. And the Dunbarton Worcester De Saca. The Bewitched got an 8. 7 right in line lockstep boys. Great, great night. Great night. Great conversation. And we'll see everybody next week. Keep smoking. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Thanks for joining us.
You can find our merch store and ratings archive at our brand new website, loungelizardspod. com. That's [01:39:00] loungelizardspod. com. Don't forget to leave us a rating and subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. If you have any comments, questions, if you want to reach out, say hello, tell us what you're smoking.
Email us hello at lounge lizards, pod. com. You can also find us on Instagram at lounge lizards pod. We really appreciate your time and we'll, uh, we'll see you next week.