Beyond The Job Title | Underrepresented Career Stories

In this episode, we are joined by Katie Penner, an accomplished sales professional who shares her insights, experiences, and wisdom gained throughout her career journey. We start by exploring the invaluable lessons Katie learned from working alongside Angela Alberty, emphasizing the importance of leading by example and being actively involved with your team.

Discover the pivotal moment that propelled Katie to embark on her path at Sendoso, where she has built a successful career in sales. Uncover the truth about relationship building as we debunk misconceptions around gift-giving and explore the art of nurturing meaningful connections.

Delve into the mastery of being a Sales Development Representative (SDR) as Katie shares her firsthand insights and strategies for success. Learn how to identify gaps and inefficiencies within your role, and leverage them as opportunities for personal and professional growth.

Gain valuable insights and practical tips on how to find harmony in the delicate juggling act between work and family life. 

Reflecting on leaving a lasting legacy, Katie shares what she wants her children to remember most about her, highlighting the importance of family and meaningful connections. 

Discover the transformative power of mentorship as Katie underscores its impact on personal and professional growth.

Lastly, we explore strategies for overcoming burnout in high-pressure environments, providing valuable guidance for thriving amidst challenges. 

Join us as we delve into the dynamic world of sales, parenthood, mentorship, and self-care, and be inspired by Katie's remarkable journey of achievement and balance.

Our guest, Katie, is a shining example of dedication and excellence. Having risen through the ranks from an SDR to the Head of Sales Development Strategy & Enablement at Sendoso, she brings a wealth of experience and expertise to the table. Beyond her professional achievements, Katie proudly embraces the role of a devoted mother, skillfully managing the complexities of work and family life.

Tune in to this inspiring episode to gain valuable insights and practical advice on leading by example, building relationships, mastering the art of sales development, finding balance as a working parent, and overcoming burnout. Prepare to be motivated and empowered by Katie's extraordinary story and her commitment to leaving a lasting legacy.

  • (00:00) - Intro
  • (02:21) - Leading by example: what Katie learned from working with Angela Alberty
  • (05:56) - Pivotal moment that led Katie to Sendoso and build a career in sales
  • (09:03) - Unwrapping relationship building: debunking gift-giving misconceptions
  • (13:24) - Mastering the art of being an SDR: insights from Katie's success
  • (16:00) - From gaps to growth: identifying inefficiencies in your role and advancing your career
  • (25:25) - Motherhood & ambition: balancing work and family
  • (30:26) - Archie's adventures: funny workplace anecdotes with Katie's son
  • (33:29) - Leaving a lasting legacy: what Katie wants her children to remember
  • (37:00) - The power of mentorship
  • (38:23) - Overcoming burnout: strategies for thriving in high-pressure environments
  • (39:57) - Rapid-fire closing
  • (44:37) - Katie’s advice to working parents
  • (46:13) - Outro

Katie’s Bio

Katie started her career as a Sales Development Representative (SDR) and diligently worked her way up to become the Head of Sales Development Strategy & Enablement at Sendoso.

Sendoso helps companies stand out by giving them new ways to engage with customers throughout the buyer’s journey and increase the effectiveness of their existing go-to-market programs and improve their relationships with customers.

Outside of the professional realm Katie proudly assumes the role of a self-proclaimed professional chaos manager, balancing the responsibilities of being a devoted mother to two children while excelling in her career.

Referenced

Where to find Katie
  • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathrynpenner/

Where to find Cesar
  • Twitter: https://twitter.com/iamcesarromero
  • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamcesarromero/

Creators & Guests

Host
Cesar Romero
Helping startups and SMBs build strong customer relationships that drive product adoption, reduce churn, and increase revenue | Community-Driven | Podcast Host
Guest
Katie Penner
Head of Sales Development Strategy & Enablement at Sendoso

What is Beyond The Job Title | Underrepresented Career Stories?

The lack of diversity in tech can lead to imposter syndrome, bias, and a sense of isolation that hinders your growth and ambition.

Welcome to 'Beyond The Job Title Podcast,' where we shine a spotlight on the journeys of underrepresented tech professionals and allies within the SaaS industry.

Join us as we delve into the personal development and career insights that have fueled their success.

Discover the stories of trailblazing underrepresented SaaS founders, executives, and professionals who have broken barriers and achieved remarkable milestones.

Whether you're seeking inspiration, mentorship, or actionable strategies to advance your career, our podcast is your go-to resource.

Tune in to gain valuable insights, build your network, and navigate your tech career journey with confidence.

Subscribe now and take the next step toward your own success in the world of tech.

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Katie Penner | BJT07
[00:00:00] Katie: There is opportunity to always be searching for gaps within your, you know, your company. Um, if you're looking for advancement opportunities. And if you find those gaps, be sure that you're going into those conversations.
[00:00:14] Very prepared, factual, not emotional, and sell yourself. Use it, use this as a tool to, to sell. And then when it comes to parenthood and being a parent and working as a parent, try to be more unapologetic. Make sure that you're working for people who truly support you as a mother, as a father, um, and honestly, have fun with it.
[00:00:37] Right? Make sure that you're time blocking to, to give yourself time to not get overwhelmed, have, have time to really. Be one-on-one with them, um, you know, and ultimately just go out there and put your head down and crush it.
[00:00:51] [00:01:00] Hey friends, this is your host Cesar. Romero. And you're listening to beyond the job title podcast, the show that explores the human experiences to shape our professional and personal lives.
[00:01:11] My guest for this episode is Katie Penner.
[00:01:13] Katie started her career as a sales development representative, and quickly work her way up to become the head of sales development strategy and enablement that's in DOSO.
[00:01:23] She is also a self-proclaimed professional Kainos manager, balancing the responsibilities of being a devoted mother to two children. While excelling in her career.
[00:01:32] And in our conversation, we dive deeper into Katie's background. You know, from. The pivotal moment that led Katie to San DOSO. And build a career in sales. To what may Katie successful in a role as an SDR? Where does her drive to always be in, do her best come from. And how to identify gaps and inefficiencies as a way to move up in your career.
[00:01:57] And how to build a case for why you might be the [00:02:00] right person to close those gaps. We also cover motherhood, burnout, the power of mentorship, and so much more. So if you are a parent and especially a working mother, This episode is, especially for you. Thank you so much for joining. And here is my conversation with katie penner
[00:02:21] Cesar: What I was reviewing your LinkedIn profile, I noticed that you have a recommendation from Angela Al Albert and Angela.
[00:02:30] Angela worked at People 2.0. Oh. Um, for many years. And she gave you an, an amazing review, but I, I got a chance to, to, to work with her for a year at her startup. Um.
[00:02:42] Katie: Oh, really? I
[00:02:43] Cesar: was just curious about that. Uh, yeah. You know, she's, she's an amazing woman. Um, I respect her so much. You know, everything she's done.
[00:02:49] So when I saw that, oh, you know, that immediately stood out to me.
[00:02:52] Katie: Angela's amazing. I'm obsessed with her. She, we were like best friends when we worked there, like would go over to her house and our [00:03:00] kids would play together.
[00:03:01] She is, A powerhouse. She is so good. She was my boss back at People 2.0 and I mean, she knew her shit. She was on top of it. She was just, gosh. I mean, you talk about being, working for like a powerful woman. That was an amazing experience and I think the first time I had, I had worked directly for a woman and it was just, A really, really cool experience to, to see a woman in a position of power like that.
[00:03:33] It was really inspiring.
[00:03:35] Cesar: Well, something specific that stood out to you in terms of like how she let teens, how she let herself, that made you realize, huh, I wanna emulate that, you know, when I have a, a leadership role.
[00:03:48] Katie: Yeah. Oh my gosh. So Angela, what was really, really interesting about her is that she wasn't afraid to get in the weeds, right?
[00:03:53] Mm-hmm. First of all, she knew what she was doing. She was super confident, super, super well versed in what [00:04:00] we were doing. I mean, I remember watching some of the most experienced sales reps make calls versus Angela, and it was like night and day, and so, You could just sit in her office and watch her make calls and I would be taking notes.
[00:04:15] But she would get really involved with us, right? With the team. She wouldn't just say, Hey, go make all these calls, whatever. She would be in there doing it herself. When it came to training, she wasn't expecting us to just read a training manual, whatever. We were getting trained by her, Hey, come sit in my office watching me make some calls.
[00:04:33] Right? And so I think like that in the weeds. I. The ability to get in the weeds that much was, was so impressive. And, and to actually be involved with the team and, you know, constantly give feedback. I mean, our desks at People 2.0, were right outside of her office. Right. And this is a in-office position, but it was, it was so great because we, we got to hear her all day, every day and she's just, gosh, incredible.
[00:04:58] It was a, an amazing [00:05:00] experience.
[00:05:00] Cesar: Yeah, she's amazing. I, I, I had the opportunity to work with her virtually and in person and I can attest to that. Uh, yeah, she's a superpower and we'll, we'll put a pin to that cuz I wanna come back to that, but, okay. Just to set the context right. And, and, and for listeners that might not be familiar with Send Doso and, and, and what they do, um, yeah.
[00:05:18] Give us, uh, The quick summary version of send What they do, you know, what, what problem they solved and what is your current, role
[00:05:25] Katie: So Send Doso is a direct mail platform. We basically make it easy for companies to send anything to anyone anywhere. Uh, my name is Katie Pinner and I am the head of Sales Development Strategy and Enablement at sendo.
[00:05:39] And that's basically a really fancy way of saying that I help our internal S D R B D R teams. I copyright all of our sequences. I also train and enable our customers. SDR and sales teams to properly utilize direct mail on their outreach.
[00:05:56] Cesar: Amazing. And, and how, how did you get to send Doso and what, what was the pivotal, [00:06:00] pivotal moment in your career that led you to send Doso, uh, and even build a career in sales?
[00:06:07] Right? Because just looking at your background, you, you made the transition from being a teacher, right? How, how, how was that transition like.
[00:06:07] Katie: Yeah. Yeah, so great question. I, I got my degree in early childhood education and during that time that I was getting my degree, I had my daughter Riley, and Riley was born prematurely.
[00:06:20] It was quite an experience. Uh, took some time off working as I was going back into the workforce, I. Got offer. I was applying for different jobs and I got offered a job at GrubHub corporate. Mm-hmm. Which, you know, I'm in love with food delivery services. So it seemed really exciting and it was for this role where, you know, I would go into businesses and try to get them to order all of their food.
[00:06:46] Right. For luncheons lunch and learns that sort of thing through GrubHub corporate. And it was a really fun job. I got to take people a bunch of free food and you know, get them to sign up. And so that was my first [00:07:00] step into kind of the sales world and I loved it. And there was this sense of flexibility to, right.
[00:07:08] I was starting to raise my own. Kid and realize, oh my gosh, like one kid is enough, a class of 25. I can't imagine. Shout out to teachers. You guys are the angels on this earth. Cause I realized that I, I'm just not built for it. Right. And I was enjoying this, this hustle of sales and how I got into Send Doso.
[00:07:30] Right. At one point I was, uh, oh, hold on. We're gonna have to edit that. Okay. At one point how I got into Send Doso was that at one point I was, um, working for a company called People 2.0. And we had gone through some leadership changes. The company was acquired, um, and the recruiter that actually got me the job at People 2.0 called me during that, that shift and said, you know, hey, I know that some people aren't feeling happy right now with the, with the shifts, you know, maybe you're feeling a little stuck and maybe not, maybe you're happy.
[00:07:56] But I do have a role at this company called Send Doso that you [00:08:00] might be interested in. And, you know, I was kind of feeling a little, a little stuck and, uh, wasn't super passionate about temp work and you know, what we were doing at People 2.0. And so I, I called my cousins and they work in tech and sas and um, and I asked, you know, do you.
[00:08:18] Have you ever heard of Sendo? And both of my cousins on different sides of the US were different companies, right? Were actually both Sendo customers and were raving about it. Loved it. You know, and that was amazing. And so I was like, okay, I'll actually take a look. So I went to Sendo SO'S website, figured out what SENDO does, right.
[00:08:40] And it just really aligned with me as a person and my passions. I I, my love language is gift gifting and mm. And my personal life. So those, those values were really aligned and everyone that I spoke to at Send Doso was, was very happy and loved what they did. And so, I took the interview and [00:09:00] I landed the job and that, that's how I got into Sendo.
[00:09:03] Cesar: That's amazing. Um, one thing I wanna ask you about gifting, you know, what, where do most people go wrong with gifting, you know, whether personal or, or in business?
[00:09:14] Katie: Yeah, that's a great question. I think personal, right? I think the biggest mistake in your personal life that you can make is not personalizing the gift that you're giving, not thinking it through, you know, just, just buying some random thing off the rack, um, with no thought into it.
[00:09:33] You know, I was just, I just posted about this on, on my LinkedIn, like I think one of the most significant gifts I've gotten recently was a, Sushi cake, right? Which was basically just a sushi bake, uh, as a birthday cake. And it was so personalized to me, and that's why it was so impactful. So personally, I think you need to really put some thought into the gifts that you're giving people in your personal life.
[00:09:56] Now, in business, the big, the biggest [00:10:00] mistake that we see with sales reps with SDRs is that they are using gifting as a bribe. Right? Mm-hmm. Saying, Hey, in exchange for your time, I'll send you a $50 Amazon E-gift, and this is bad for multiple reasons, right? You are potentially just getting a meeting so that that person can get an E-gift and ghost to you.
[00:10:21] Or if you're reaching out to a TL personas, right? These VPs, C-suites, they're going to get kind of offended by that, right? Oh, you only think. My time is worth $50. Mm-hmm. And so that becomes a problem too. Um, I think the biggest thing that you can do as a sales rep with gifting is again, personalization.
[00:10:46] Making it tailored to that specific person. Go do some research, go listen to a podcast like this that they've done so that you can get little nuggets of information about what they enjoy, and you can really [00:11:00] personalize that gift.
[00:11:01] Cesar: I love that. So personalization is, is key, you know? Yes. Because it, even sometimes as a husband myself, sometimes I'm like, why do I get my wife?
[00:11:10] But there's that pressure of, I, I don't wanna get something generic. Right. I don't wanna get something that's like, it's just like, like, you know, like a 50 other gift card. Right? Yeah. So there's, there's some pressure there. But I think personalization, right? It's, it's is key, right? Cuz it makes it, it's, it's about the emotion that you can.
[00:11:24] Make the other person feel like they are unique, like they matter. Right. Right. Um, now do, does gifting work, even when receiving gifts, might not be the other person's love language?
[00:11:38] Katie: Yeah, I think so. As long as you put thought behind it. Right. So here's an example. If I. Offer you, you know, $50 to, to meet with me for 30 minutes and I'm not really talking about a pain point that I'm solving.
[00:11:53] I'm not leading with value. And you know, you see it as bribery, you're probably not gonna respond to me. And if you do, it's probably gonna [00:12:00] be a negative response, right? Whereas if I say, Hey, I see that you're attending this conference, I know that they can be exhausting. Here's a $25 coffee e-gift to grab some coffee on me today.
[00:12:12] And with nothing else. And then at that point you're probably gonna reply, thank you. Or you know, this is so sweet, so thoughtful. And then at that point I can start an organic conversation with you. Hey, I'm curious, how are you solving for X, Y, Z, right? And we can just start this natural flowing conversation that seems to alleviate some of the pressure that buyers feel today.
[00:12:35] Love that.
[00:12:35] Cesar: So you get to send. Um, before getting there, ha. Have you had experience with the S S D R role? Before Send Doso.
[00:12:43] Katie: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I had, so before Send Doso, I was an SDR at People 2.0. So selling something totally, totally different. But it was still that SDR role, it was very call heavy. Mm-hmm.
[00:12:56] Um, email two was involved, but we were reaching out to recruiters, so it was very, [00:13:00] Very phone call. They're always on the phone. So it made sense. We met them where they were. Uh, but Send Doso was really my first step into this tech s d R role, right? Mm-hmm. This really nitty gritty s d R role. And I started, you know, at the bottom and was able to work my way up to enterprise sdr, um, and then experience more growth from there.
[00:13:24] Cesar: Looking back at. The s e r role, what were some of the things that made you successful, and what would your advice be to other maybe people that are looking to pivot into tech and they're looking as at the s e r role as a, as an entry. Integral.
[00:13:41] Katie: Yeah. I think the biggest thing with the SDR role is to keep your head down and do the work.
[00:13:46] Right? It's really easy to get caught up in the no as an SDR and to get defeated. But I started thinking, you know, hey, every, no, I'm getting closer to a yes and would kind of make it this [00:14:00] mental game. And that made it kind of fun. And I also think another thing that helped me be successful was that I.
[00:14:08] Questioned everything. Mm-hmm. If some element of my process wasn't working, I was asking why. Talking to my, my manager and constantly getting feedback. So, and being open to it. Right. And changing those things and being adaptable. So I think that that's probably the biggest thing that I would say and that sdr role that, that made me successful.
[00:14:29] Cesar: Where does that come from of, of. If you don't have the, the answer asking why is, is that something that you, you always had or was it more of like, because of the environment that Send Doso cultivates, you feel comfortable asking those questions? Yeah,
[00:14:43] Katie: so I think it's a combination of both, right? Like, I've always been a very competitive person, so the SDR role is very competitive, right?
[00:14:52] You have, and of course it's collaborative as well, but there's, there's this fun environment of competitiveness where you have these group [00:15:00] dashboards typically. Mm-hmm. You're, you know, you wanna match up or, you know, exceed your peers and it keeps it fun, honestly. And I think also on the flip side, right, I was able to have a very open dialogue with my manager at the time where I could say, Hey, this is frustrating me.
[00:15:17] This is not working. How can I fix this? Help me guide. Guide myself to success. Right? And I think that that was kind of, Stemming from this, this need to succeed, this, you know, this drive to, to be the best. And yeah, I, I think that's always kind of been a, a part of me and I think that that is what I've seen some of the best SDRs that I've had on my team have as well.
[00:15:41] And just the ability to, to really focus and narrow in on your goals and to constantly remind yourself of your whys and what you're working towards. Yeah,
[00:15:51] Cesar: those, those are a driving force if you are constantly reminding yourself of why you're doing what you're doing and focusing. Right. Which is very hard to do in this day and [00:16:00] age.
[00:16:00] Yeah.
[00:16:00] Katie: Yeah.
[00:16:00] Cesar: What, what were some of the trade-offs that you had to make when you went, when you transitioned from being a successful s d to a more of a
[00:16:09] Katie: leadership role? Yeah, so my history with that, right, so, I was an enterprise S D R and kind of the transition that happened cuz I didn't immediately jump to management.
[00:16:23] Mm-hmm. So when I was an enterprise S D R, my whole thought process was, I. These sequences are so bad. My pocket's hurting, the company's pocket's hurting. And so at the time when I was in sdr, we had a content committee. So a few of the best SDRs, the highest performing SDRs, including myself, we got together, we would be assigned one email out of a sequence and we would be told, Hey, we want it to include this case study, whatever.
[00:16:53] And so, We'd all go out separately, write these emails, and then come back and stick 'em all together. [00:17:00] And as you imagine, those sequences were terrible. There was no story being told. They were all different writing styles. Some were like two pages long, some were a paragraph long. I mean, it was just a mess.
[00:17:12] And so as a result, we were getting like, 2% response rates. Right. And I was so frustrated with it, cause I'm like, look, I'm putting all my prospects into these sequences. Mm. And it's hurting my wallet and it's hurting the company's wallet. So sat down with my boss Rayanne at the time, and I was like, look, this has gotta change.
[00:17:32] We need someone in seat that's a good writer to come and rewrite all of these. And we can have these amazing response rates. Like, why are we dealing with this? So, Basically, Rayanne told me to come up with a plan, and so I did. I wrote a plan of how I was going to break down these, the sequencing by persona, A T L B, T L, like their, their purchase stages, all these, you know, really targeted things so we could get really narrowed [00:18:00] in and personalized, well as personalized as possible in a sequence.
[00:18:04] And I pitched that to R came back and. Then ended up pitching that to our C R O at the time, Sam, and they approved it. I was like, look, I mean, what would it mean for you and the company if we were able to double, triple these response rates? You know, kind of use those selling skills there. And I, they moved me into a lifecycle marketing associate role, and so, At that point I rewrote all of those sequences and that took a lot of that really focused energy.
[00:18:37] Right. Cuz that was not easy. That's rewriting a ton of content. Mm-hmm. Just focusing on that with the SDR role. You know, if I was getting bored of making phone calls, I could switch to email or LinkedIn. Right? There was, there was something else to occupy my mind. So I think the biggest like tradeoff there was that I had to be.
[00:18:56] Narrowed in on one project and to get that project [00:19:00] done. And it was so difficult, uh, to stay motivated at times, but we were able to release those sequences. And in the meantime, I, I was also working on direct mail campaigns in that marketing role for the S D R organization. And, um, you know, I wasn't, I had never created.
[00:19:18] A direct mail campaign before, and I, I came up with these quarterly bundles. They ended up being really successful. Actually. They brought in like 25 to 26 x roi, which is crazy. Um, and then once we released those new sequences, um, I, we got, we were in between, I think it was 10 to 12% response rates. You know, we've, we're constantly evolving, so I, we release some more and now we're at like 20 to 25, which is insane.
[00:19:49] Um, so it's just, you know, I think it's, obviously I never got to use those sequences as an S D R, but what's great is that now the SDRs [00:20:00] that, you know, and then I moved onto being a manager, but. It was so amazing to see my SDRs seeing so much more success and actually trusting sequences to bring in results.
[00:20:10] And so I think, you know, that gap was obviously worth solving because it benefited me once I stepped into my management role after that lifecycle marketing associate role. I love
[00:20:23] Cesar: that you, you saw a problem, you brought it up to light and only that you, um, You pitched it, came out, came, came up with a plan, pitched a plan, implemented it, and ended up being successful.
[00:20:33] Mm-hmm. And I think that's, that's an approach that whether you're looking for a job or whether you're in the job, right? I think that's an approach that can make you invaluable on, on a team, right? Because you're someone that's, that's you are showing a growth mindset. You're, you're showing that hey, you know, things can always be better.
[00:20:51] We can always improve. Um, I'm curious. Your approach on how you pitched the plan. Cuz I feel like a lot, a lot of people get stuck in, in, in how to talk to, [00:21:00] to leadership and the C-suite on, hey, I have this idea and I know it can work, but where, where they fall flat is when they pitch it true. Right. So I'm just curious like what, how, how, how do you pitch it and, and, you know, what were some of the elements that, that someone could, uh, could borrow from
[00:21:16] Katie: you?
[00:21:17] Yeah, so there's a lot of prep that went into that conversation, right? So months before I even went to Rayann or Sam and tried to position myself as the person for the job mm-hmm. I was proving it out, right? So I stopped using sequencing that wasn't working when I was an sdr. And instead I started writing my own emails and as a result, booking my, my own meetings, right?
[00:21:40] Mm-hmm. So they already noticed that my emails were outperforming. The teams. And you know, during that time I also bought myself an individual license of Lavender, used my own credit card and so that was constantly helping me evolve my writing style too. Right. I'm taking trainings with Will. I'll write, I'm really getting in the [00:22:00] weeds of what works with sales emails cause I'm a good writer.
[00:22:04] But there's a difference between being a good writer and a good sales outreach writer, right? Mm-hmm. There's different elements there. So I'm training myself as an S D R to be the best in my org at this, and to really be able to back that up with statistics. And then once I talked to Rayanne and I said, Hey, I am the best at email writing.
[00:22:26] There needs to be someone in seat to rewrite all of these. You know, she says, come up with a plan. So I start an Excel spreadsheet and I start thinking about, okay, look, if I, what were the best, what are the best sequences that I could ask for as an S D R? How personalized can I get with sequences? So I started thinking about all the different things and all the different ways that we could segment our audience.
[00:22:52] Right? A T L B, T L. Are they above the line, below the line? Are they marketing or sales or you know, all these different [00:23:00] breakdowns of. Roles. And then I also started to think about Industry 6 cents purchase dates, right? All these different things. And so I segmented those into a Google Doc and then came up with a Plan eight sequences that I would start with writing that were very hyper targeted for sequences.
[00:23:19] And not until I had that completely baked out did I go back to Rayanne and said, okay, Rayanne, here's my plan. And during that conversation, both with Rayanne and with just Rayanne and Sam, my C R O and my director of Sales development, both of those calls I entered and I was completely factual. Hey, here's where sequences are at today, and this is why this is a problem.
[00:23:44] There was no emotion brought into that conversation. I think you need to be really careful about being emotional when you're talking to C-Suite directors, et cetera. You need to come at them with facts and tell them how you're going to help them solve their problems. It's the same as a sales sales [00:24:00] pitch kind of, you know?
[00:24:01] Um, So basically said, Hey, here's where we're at. Here's why we're struggling. Here's why this matters, and here's a plan for improving this. Here's why I am the person for this plan with those statistics that I'd talked about. And so at that point it became, Hey, what would it mean to you if we doubled or tripled our reply rates?
[00:24:21] What would that mean for our, our profits as as an org, and what would, what would mean it, what would it mean to you if we didn't do that? Right. And we stayed with these sequences, and so at that point, I was really targeting a pain point for, for my leadership and, and offering a solution.
[00:24:37] Cesar: I, I love that, especially making, building your A case for yourself, you know, and, and why you are the person that can solve that, that need.
[00:24:45] Um, cuz I think a lot of times we, we forget that, you know, that's a very important piece of whether you're, whatever you're pitching, right? Like, why you, and do you have any data to, to back it up? Yeah. And I love your thinking of you were building, [00:25:00] building that up, right? And it took a little bit of time, but that's so important, right?
[00:25:03] Because you need those wins to, to show, hey, you know, I've been doing this and I have a feeling that if we implement this. Um, on a, on a bigger scale, right? It can have bigger results. So that's, that's genius. I love that.
[00:25:17] Katie: Yeah. It, the plan worked really well. Yeah. Okay.
[00:25:22] Cesar: Yeah. Now I wanna shift gears to, to parenting.
[00:25:25] Right. Uh, how. I'm a, I'm a dad myself. Right. I have a five year old and there's one on the way. Oh. And, and being a parent is not easy. Right. Especially when when you have a, uh, a career, you're a professional and you're trying to balance the two. Um, and I wanted to get your perspective and, you know, maybe for listeners, our parents as well, how are you balancing the two, you know, being the Katie, the professional and being Katie, the, the mom.
[00:25:51] Katie: Yeah, great question and congratulations on the one on the way. Thank you. Um, I think, you know, the biggest thing for me, right? I have, I have Riley, she's [00:26:00] seven, she goes to school during the day. Um, so that's pretty typical. But the biggest thing for me is that I have an eight month old Archie who stays home with me all day.
[00:26:10] He is currently napping. Really great timing. I know. Uh, but Archie. Was a struggle at first because when they're babies, they just kind of sit there and Google iu and it's, it seems like it's easy. Hey, what are all these people saying? It's so hard. Um, but now when he's eight months, right, like he's starting to crawl around.
[00:26:32] He's nonstop moving when he is awake and he really loves to be held. He will not sit in the playpen, do any of that. So, There came this moment about a month ago where I was like, how do I do this right? Like, how, what is happening? Like how can I not lose my mind when I have back to back days and I have this baby at home.
[00:26:56] And so I decided that I was gonna [00:27:00] stop being apologetic about Archie. I'm not going to let Archie, I'm not gonna apologize for, for having a child, right? Like, I, I love Archie. I'm not sorry. He's here and, and kind of got into every call with that mindset, right? And so if he was awake right now, he would be on my lap unapologetically.
[00:27:20] And. We would just have to do this with him here. Right. And we'd figure out a way, and there's little tips and tricks, right? Like this microphone is, is because it's noise canceling. Mm-hmm. So if Archie's in the background of a customer call that I have and he is, you know, making a bunch of noise, they're not gonna be able to hear that.
[00:27:38] So it's all about how I can focus while also ensuring that I'm giving him the attention that he needs. I will pause a phone call. If he needs me. It's, it's all just really about not allowing yourself to feel shame for the job of motherhood. Right. And so I think, and I, a [00:28:00] lot of people don't have that freedom.
[00:28:02] I wanna be very clear here. I am extremely lucky to work for Sendo. So, and to work for the people that I work for because they fully understand that my children come first. In any situation, right? But there are companies out there and leaders out there that do not offer that same support. And so, you know, it's, it's really important to look at yourself as a leader and ensure that you are actually providing the best workplace possible for working mothers.
[00:28:31] Cesar: Shout out Toso, because that's important, right? Um, Making parents feel like they belong. Like, Hey, we understand that you're a parent and that sometimes you might get interrupted, you know, but you have to take care of Archie. And that, that's so important. But also why I mentioned that also, cuz I, I did that too at the beginning.
[00:28:50] Like, I kept apologizing for Lucia, like interrupting podcasts or, or calls. But then I, I realized, no, I'm not gonna apologize cuz that's, that's my, that's my [00:29:00] season right now. Right? This is the season, yeah. Of toddlers and babies and whoever does they understand, sorry.
[00:29:07] Katie: Yeah, exactly. And you know what's interesting is that like, I was so nervous.
[00:29:12] At first for, for Archie to pop up on these calls, right. With with Riley it wasn't an issue because I was not working for the first bit of her life. But with Archie it was this new experience and I was so nervous that people would get annoyed if he popped up on camera. And I have to say, I have never had a single person.
[00:29:32] Not Ooh and ah over Archie popping up on camera. Right. If anything, I think it's almost like a really great icebreaker to bring. And a lot of people too know Archie from the videos that I post on LinkedIn. Yeah. And I've had people say, I expect to see Archie on our next call and hold me to it. So, you know, I think honestly it's just moms, you gotta give and dads you gotta give yourself a break and.[00:30:00]
[00:30:00] Allow yourself some, some leniency, right? And some understanding. And just don't be apologetic about your life and your family and your why. You know, I think it's, when you think about it like that, it, it becomes so silly. It's just this, this anxiety point. And if you're working for people that don't understand, then you know, maybe reconsider who you're working for or, you know, leaders be better leaders.
[00:30:26] Cesar: Any funny story that pops up top of mind that involves one of her kids and, and work.
[00:30:33] Katie: Uh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's a million, right? His whole life he's been a, you know, there's Covid babies and then there's Archie who is a Zoom baby. He's very, very used to Zoom. Um, but I think the funniest, funniest call was, you know, back when. I was a frontline manager. Uh, I had a team and we called ourselves the goat pen, right?
[00:30:54] Cause my last name was Pener, whatever. And uh, so you know, our mascot was the goat [00:31:00] Greatest of all Time. It was so fitting. It was perfect. And I got Archie this like baby goat costume. And, um, I put him on it. And I surprised my team, the whole team, not just my team, all the different teams at the time with him in this, this suit on a group Zoom call and all, you know, my fellow managers were making fun of me cracking jokes.
[00:31:22] Like, oh, he hates this. He's so mad, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, no, he loves it. And I, I look at Archie and then he just, Spits up all over me. They're like, it was, it was really funny because it was just like, you know, um, he was so incorporated into our team and, you know, he had his own slack reaction picture of him in this go uniform.
[00:31:42] I mean, he's just so integrated into Sendo. So, and, and what I do and, you know, everyone that I work with knows his name. It's just a really great situation and I, I've never. Felt uncomfortable or like I couldn't progress my career. [00:32:00] And so it's been, it's been really amazing. Honestly. Sendo So should start cutting Archie checks at this point.
[00:32:05] Cesar: Royalties, yeah. But something key that you mentioned there is integration. I think that is, that is the word. Integration. Like how can you help parents integrate their personal life and their careers in a way that they feel in flow? Yeah. Right. Um, because then it just feels like you're living two lives, right.
[00:32:27] Trying to, to pull it together, you know, with your left, and you're right. Uh, but when everything is integrated right, it's just, it's, it, it, it becomes
[00:32:33] Katie: one right. Yeah. And work life, the whole concept of like work-life balance, right? I think most people, when they think work-life balance, it's like, okay, I work nine to five, eight to five, and then I shut my computer and I'm away and I'm with my family, and like that's their idea.
[00:32:50] Mm-hmm. Of this concept of work-life balance. But when you have a baby that's at home with you while you're working, That's not how that works, [00:33:00] right? Like, I have to step away from that computer and feed Archie, change, Archie do those things. Like, so I need to make sure that I am adding some blocks throughout my day to make sure that I, that I have that time, that I'm not double booked and, and, and not able to even do those things, right?
[00:33:15] And so it's, it's allowing yourself to create your own schedule. That ensures that you're doing both jobs to the best of your ability. And so yeah, that integration is, is really key. Let's
[00:33:29] Cesar: say is, you know, your, your children are 20, 30 years old. What would you like them to say or remember about you when, when they're at their age?
[00:33:40] Katie: Oh, um, wow. What a good question. I, I think they just want to know that their mom helps people. I think like that at my core is what I want and to do in everything that I do. And my intention behind everything, um, [00:34:00] is simply just to help other people, make other people's lives a little easier, a little better.
[00:34:06] So I hope that when they grow up, they, they. Are able to say that about their mom.
[00:34:13] Cesar: Well, I think you're doing an amazing job and you're on track. That's so No. Yeah, no, it, it's, you know, I know we haven't met in person, although we will. Right. Cause you're, you're coming to us in a, in a couple weeks. Yeah. Oh yeah.
[00:34:17] But it just shows on the way you show up on LinkedIn. Right. And, and I know LinkedIn is a social media profile, but there, I've been on LinkedIn for, Since 2008. So I, I, I can tell the difference between something that is, you know, for lack of better term, fake and something that is authentic and you are on the authentic side.
[00:34:39] Thank you. Right. And, and, and that is so, Refreshing, and I would agree that you come off as someone that wants to help, that genuinely wants to help, is not afraid of being vulnerable, and I think that's why people gravitate towards you because they find that. To be refreshing, right? In a, in a sea, in that blue ocean that is [00:35:00] linked in of like tactical advice.
[00:35:02] You know, at times very shallow and superficial. You go deep into, into Katie, the professional, into Katie, the person, Katie, the mom, and yeah, it just shows, right? So I would, I would agree with that. I think, I think your kids will, will say, yeah, my mom's helpful. Loves
[00:35:17] Katie: to help people. I hope so. I hope so, and I really appreciate it.
[00:35:21] I, I think, you know, hearing those things is so, so crazy. You know, I, I started on this LinkedIn journey where I just started being active like a little over three months ago, and that isn't that mind blowing. It hasn't, it hasn't been that long. And so I think this. This crazy amount of, of response that I'm, that I'm getting is just extremely overwhelming in a good way.
[00:35:45] Right. It's, it's, it's insane to see how it's resonating with people and I think it just really makes me realize that it's, it's so important. Right. Especially. The, the moms that are out there, you know, I've gotten invite, gotten into [00:36:00] some mentorship opportunities with different communities so I can help people with career trajectories and growth and, and all of that.
[00:36:06] But I. The, the biggest thing on LinkedIn is, is the moms. Right? When I posted that, that video with Archie, the, my dms were filled with moms that were struggling with coming back from maternity leave. They're scared, they have no one to talk to about this. They're, they don't wanna talk to their boss or their coworkers.
[00:36:27] They don't have that same environment that I do. And so I think it's really interesting to be able to resonate with, with those people. Those people that aren't liking, they can't comment. Mm-hmm. Because they're scared of retaliation, but you know, from their jobs. But those people that it's affecting in my dms, I think like that is why I'm here and that's why I'm gonna continue to do what I'm doing, is to have that voice and to be that, be that mentor or that friend, that bit of guidance for those people that are afraid to speak out.
[00:36:59] [00:37:00] Yes. That's so
[00:37:00] Cesar: important. Um, yeah. And one, one last question here, and then I wanna do a rapid fire round, um, to, to wrap up the episode, but I wanted to touch on mentorship, right? You, you're involved in a, in a couple communities, um, as a mentor. And I wanted to ask you about, you know, why is mentorship important to you?
[00:37:19] Katie: Oh gosh. I mean, so another thing that as I built this community right, and gotten this res level of response, um, one of the things that I promised myself is that I want to give to this community as much as I am, feel like I'm being given. Right. And so I. Every day that I propose something, I'm just amazed.
[00:37:40] And so I wanna be sure that I am giving as much as I possibly can. And so mentorship seems like an amazing way to really get in depth with one person and hopefully have a really positive impact on their life, their career, their trajectory. And if I can give them any [00:38:00] bits of advice that have helped me along the way, then I would say I'm, you know, it's definitely worthwhile.
[00:38:06] Cesar: Being a mentor is, is super rewarding. Now, I, I want, I wanna flip that a little bit. Uh, what would you advise someone that is a giver? But they feel themselves as like they're a little burnt out from too much giving. You know? What, what would you recommend to them?
[00:38:23] Katie: Oh, yeah. I mean, like, if you're feeling burnt out in any, any fashion, and I was feeling burnt out a couple weeks ago, right?
[00:38:31] There's, there's back, back calendars, there's babies. I mean, eventually I'm gonna feel a little burnt out. Uh, I say take some time off. Take some p t o. Take a few days to actually unplug, like delete slack from your phone, delete your email. Just like go to a beach somewhere, or go on vacation or go to bed.
[00:38:50] Like do whatever you need to do to relax because feeling burnt out is real and it is so important to take care of your mental health and a few [00:39:00] days away usually does the trick for me. Yeah.
[00:39:03] Cesar: As, as a giver, I've, I've been there many times and I have to constantly remind myself like, you can't be given 24 hours.
[00:39:09] You know, you, you have to at least a couple hours, like recharge so that you can continue giving. So that's
[00:39:14] Katie: why I asked the question. Yeah. Yeah. And I think too, like you need to make sure that you're giving to the right people, right? Mm-hmm. I think like it's really easy as a giver to get burnt out when you're.
[00:39:26] Constantly giving to people that maybe don't appreciate it or aren't taking that advice or, you know, but so you have to find people that are, that are hungry to learn, that are motivated to learn. And sometimes you have to get that out of them, right? Like teach them how to find their why. Um, but yeah, I would just say like, if you're feeling that way, question why you're feeling that way.
[00:39:49] What have you, what have you been giving recently? What is not fulfilling? In that giving journey. Right. And kind of figure it out from there.
[00:39:57] Cesar: Yeah. I love that. Awesome. Katie. Well, I [00:40:00] wanna do a rapid fire round Oh, yeah. As, as I wait to wrap up the episode and, okay. Super simple, right? I, I'll ask you a simple question and just gimme the, the top of mind answer, you know, in the 30, 60 seconds.
[00:40:12] Okay. All right. Uh, first question, one book that has greatly influenced your life.
[00:40:19] Katie: Oh,
[00:40:19] um, oh God. I'm gonna have to skip that one. I don't know.
[00:40:19] Cesar: Or it could be a course, or it could be anything that, that, you know, you read maybe a course you took. Um, gosh, I'm like
[00:40:19] Katie: looking at my books. Um, I think like one that I, that I really like is over here. What is it called? Um, give and take. I think that's a really good book.
[00:40:30] Kind of talks about the balance of, you know, kind of what we were talking about, right? Like how to not give burnt out when you're, when you're giving. So I would probably go with that one. There's so many though. I literally have like 10 different books around me right now. Hit me up for book recommendations, but give and take is, is my most recent favorite.
[00:40:47] Give and take's
[00:40:48] Cesar: a good one is, is that the one by Adam Grant? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Adam Grant is, yeah, he's, he's great. I, I love his, uh, his post. Awesome. Next question, one of the [00:41:00] most worthwhile investments that you have made recently. And when I say investments, you know, it could be financially, it could be physical, it could be a relationship.
[00:41:08] Yeah. Whatever comes to mind.
[00:41:08] Katie: Yeah. Um, I would say I just purchased, uh, like a license of Animoto, which is this like really basic video editing tool, and that's what I've been using for my, my videos and, um, just trying to level them up a little bit, but, I'm also doing all of our video editing for soso using it.
[00:41:27] So I think that that has been the most, you know, effective brunches recently. It's not very exciting, but I love it.
[00:41:34] Cesar: No, I, I love that. Right. Anything that can help you, 10 x your, your output, right? Uh mm-hmm. And, and I'm curious why, what was it about Animoto that made you.
[00:41:41] Katie: Yeah, so I think like the user interface is really friendly.
[00:41:46] So typically I'll get like a large video and have to clip it into smaller clips and kind of insert some branding and all of that. And so I think it's just a really user friendly platform, right? Like I don't have video [00:42:00] editing background, so I need a tool that's gonna be easy, quick, and effective. And I think that that's just, you know, with my personal experience, I've, I've loved it so far.
[00:42:09] Cesar: Yeah, I'm the same way when it comes to software, you know, ease of use. Yeah. Awesome. Um, next, next question. Uh, is there any quote or maybe, um, life model that, that you live by?
[00:42:20] Katie: Mm
[00:42:20] gosh. I think the biggest thing is just, and this is so simple and such a silly answer, but just be kind. And like, I think I, out of everything that I do, I try to lead with kindness and, and that's kind of what I teach my kids. I think it's kind of more of a family motto, right? And everything that we do, whether, you know, that's in school or at work or, you know, while we're playing with friends, right?
[00:42:47] Like we have to lead with kindness and, and everything and have good intentions. And so that's what I would say is, is our overarching, Motto.
[00:42:56] Cesar: Yeah. Simple, underrated, and, and, and not easy to [00:43:00] implement, I would say,
[00:43:00] Katie: but definitely important. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's broad cuz it can apply to everything, right?
[00:43:05] Every situation. It all comes back to just being kind and, and leading with good intentions.
[00:43:12] Cesar: Awesome. Next, next question here. In the last year, uh, any habit that you have put in place that has improved, um, your life? Your output at
[00:43:24] Katie: work? Yeah, so I think recently I've started waking up earlier. I am not a morning person at all.
[00:43:33] So in the past I would wake up like 20 minutes before my daughter had to be at school. And then I'd be fumbling around trying to get her ready, trying to get the baby ready, and we'd be, you know, just on time every day. And that's like stress inducing. So, I started waking up earlier. I wake up at 6:00 AM which probably doesn't seem very early to a lot of people, but to me that is early.
[00:43:56] And so now I have time to check my [00:44:00] schedule as I'm laying in bed. Like, you know, go take a shower while the kids are still sleeping. Make some coffee. Right? And I think it's so simple, but I, I never thought that I would be a morning person and, and purposely wake up. Earlier than my kids. But honestly it's, it's been really nice to have that moment to myself, to have that time to kind of ease up into the day
[00:44:24] Cesar: I'm working on that myself.
[00:44:26] Uh, working up earlier. I ambitiously set up my alarm at five 15, but I've, I failed in the past
[00:44:32] Katie: week. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's hard. It's tough waking up.
[00:44:37] Cesar: It is. Um, all right, last, last question to, to wrap up the episode. Um, what will be your, one of your takeaways, um, that listeners can absorb from this episode, you know, as, as it relates to their career and even becoming a
[00:44:50] Katie: parent?
[00:44:51] Yeah, so I think the biggest takeaways hopefully for you are that when it comes to your career, [00:45:00] There is opportunity to always be searching for gaps within your, you know, your company. Um, if you're looking for advancement opportunities. And if you find those gaps, be sure that you're going into those conversations.
[00:45:13] Very prepared, factual, not emotional, and sell yourself. Use it, use this as a tool to, to sell. And then when it comes to parenthood and being a parent and working as a parent, try to be more unapologetic. Make sure that you're working for people who truly support you as a mother, as a father, um, and honestly, have fun with it.
[00:45:37] Right? Make sure that you're time blocking to, to give yourself time to not get overwhelmed, have, have time to really. Be one-on-one with them, um, you know, and ultimately just go out there and put your head down and crush it. Love it.
[00:45:52] Cesar: And Katie, uh, where can people find you? What's the best way to, to reach out to you if people want to get in contact with you?
[00:45:58] Katie: Yeah, so find me on [00:46:00] LinkedIn. Uh, connect with me. I am always willing to connect and chat, so shoot me a message.
[00:46:06] Cesar: Awesome Katie. Well, thanks so much for your time and being generous. And, uh, yeah, until
[00:46:10] Katie: next time. Awesome. Thank you so much for having me.
[00:46:13] all right. I hope you enjoyed this episode and thank you so much for listening all the way through. I appreciate you. And I hope that you get some valuable information that you can apply to our personal and professional life. If this story resonated with you and you would like to support the podcast.
[00:46:38] Please make sure to subscribe. So you don't miss out on any future episodes. Thank you so much for the opportunity. I appreciate you. And I look forward to serving you in the next episode.