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Everybody Else is a podcast about the invisible people who make life happen. What began as conversations with behind-the-scenes builders in the music industry has grown into a broader exploration of how people think, work, and carry responsibility across industries and across disciplines. Hosted by Wes Luttrell, the show centers on thoughtful dialogue with creatives, leaders, and operators whose work often goes unseen but shapes the world we live in. New episodes streaming every Tuesday.
speaker-0 (00:00.834)
This is the Everybody Else Podcast.
speaker-1 (00:09.902)
But most of the authors of the human story are unnamed. Invisible contributors to the greatest story ever written. So who are the invisible people writing our chapter today? Because behind every great city, industry, movement, and way of thinking are people who dedicate their entire lives to work that'll go virtually unnoticed. Work that builds on where we've been, shapes where we are, and points us towards where we're going.
There are those in the spotlight, and then there's everybody else.
speaker-1 (00:56.91)
2003, there's a young Justin graduating college, earns a business admin and management degree. Take me back to that kid who's leaving school and who's entering the workforce. What were you like then in terms of who you were as a person? What were your dreams? What were your excitements? What were you interested in?
That's a good question, makes me think.
So I'll
I'll tell you a couple things come to mind. One, that Justin.
had a lot of fun. That Justin wasn't necessarily excited to see some of the nighttime activities that existed back then. it's interesting because
speaker-0 (01:37.358)
Give up some of these
speaker-0 (01:46.409)
My business has kind of run kind of in my blood for a long time. My dad and my grandfather helped me start a lawn care business when I was 13. so, and I built it when 13, I can't drive anywhere. My parents or my dad's taking me around with a trailer and my grandpa who, he was an amazing influence in my life.
death.
speaker-2 (01:55.726)
that obviously when I'm
speaker-2 (02:04.608)
He, yeah, he would take.
me around and drop me off. then when I got my license at 16, I decided, you know what? Money, right? And there was.
I like, you know, back then, I think I mowed the baseball fields.
lawn that I played at, was highland baseball field. I mowed those and I had some other yards that were neighborhood yards and around the way, but really they were just, we lived right down the street so I could ride my lawn more there. And then we picked up a few others from, you know, friends of my dad's who had a business or whatever it might be.
Okay.
speaker-2 (02:33.76)
And then when I turned 16, I got my license and that was...
Winter, decided, you know what, like making, you know, I was making maybe $15,000 a year, which at 14 or 15 is pretty.
He's badass. He's phenomenal. Yeah. And the whole time my parents...
Right.
saying, hey, you gotta pay for your college, you gotta pay for your first car. Okay. Don't spend it.
speaker-2 (02:50.4)
Okay. And so I decided, you know what, make a
I'm going to go with this. I'm going to invest in at that time, know, higher end expensive, like zero turns and things, zero turn motors. Yeah. Okay. Back then you had to buy inexpensive commercial model.
Now they're everywhere.
speaker-2 (03:06.697)
and
I went through and drove basically business, apartment complex to apartment complex, handing out flyers, just trying to get wherever I could. Built kind of a grassroots business, know, feet on the street kind of business that winter.
door to door business.
speaker-2 (03:15.828)
it wears good and ultimately
speaker-2 (03:24.583)
And maybe we had.
I turned that into maybe 30 yards that first summer, 35, maybe on top of what we were doing. Just kept at that. And by the time I was in college, I had eight plus yards, several large apartment complexes, had the Browning Ferris Industries at the time, which was like our local waste management service place, the dump essentially. Yeah. Day and a half deal, like just hour, hour-wise, but
and kept doing that.
speaker-2 (03:36.632)
the play.
speaker-2 (03:50.508)
Which was a massive, you know, like a
speaker-2 (03:55.512)
Yeah, and then one thing turned into another and next thing.
I know I'm making just tremendous money and you're making it in eight months out of the year, right? So you have the winners off so that I can bartend and do whatever else I was doing in college.
And then everyone kept telling me
Like, hey, you gotta get a real job. Hey, you gotta get a real job. You can, man, it doesn't make sense to me, but okay. You know, I'm listening to people.
You know, and I think.
speaker-2 (04:16.781)
And so that you fast forward to 2003 and I had a really, so I started college in 1980. Fast forward. Other people have, I like to think I did. But yeah, so 2003, the advice.
And again, a good time in college. didn't, I didn't try to leave early. was in the eight and so, got my master's degrees by the time I got out. Other areas of life, but I decided that, know what, I'm going to take a and get a real job. I recommend that to anyone in today's world, but that was what I took.
I would not write
speaker-2 (04:47.198)
And basically,
basically just took and ended up taking a job with a company that I interned with in college, the last six months of college.
Were you making more money there or when you were in London?
It was a little more than half. So I think that...
than half. The final year of mowing lawns, I think it was around 70 to 75,000. And I think my starting salary was right around 40.
speaker-2 (05:11.502)
And then the goals, the goals change, right? So in the back of my mind, I'm thinking,
It's interesting.
speaker-0 (05:18.718)
entrepreneurship makes a lot of sense, right? Even though I'm... It was interesting because when I would interview for, at the time I wanted to get into pharmaceutical sales, for jobs, interviewing me, consider that real experience, which is... And I don't know if that's the same... It's not for me when I interview people, but at the time they're like, nah, I have like brick and mortar experience, you 18 months to 24 months experience. So that was my first goal is to get, okay, if I have to do this,
but...
speaker-2 (05:27.438)
When I would interview the people, managers would not.
Yeah, it was bizarre.
speaker-2 (05:40.622)
You
speaker-0 (05:49.154)
real job thing.
So they couldn't, like it's funny, couldn't recognize underneath what you were saying, I built a lawn mowing company, that there was initiative, there was like saving money, there was investing in your equipment, there was operations, there was like all of this sales, there was all of this underlying gold for a young guy that they didn't even, didn't, well, and I'm sure they're like, it's HR or somebody, like they're not.
They're not entrepreneurial perhaps, so they can't recognize it in.
Yeah, yeah, I think it may have been my pit right there.
too. There's a combo there that I didn't know what you're doing. You don't know what you're doing. Yeah. Nervous as shit. Yes.
speaker-2 (06:29.773)
that age in your interview.
speaker-2 (06:35.158)
And so I think I'd like to think that I have that, you know, so, but the point is.
Pardon that.
speaker-0 (06:41.063)
That's the journey that I was supposed to be on. And if it would have worked otherwise, it was supposed to work out otherwise, it would have.
But yeah, but then, once I got started, I ultimately...
That's interesting. when you first asked me that question or just now ask me that question, I remember my thought process of what success was during that time. And it was about, okay, the experience so I can go do what I want to do because success at that time was, pharmaceutical, they, right. And you get a company car and like vacations. You don't work that hard.
The first level was, I gotta get.
speaker-2 (07:08.866)
pay well and but
And so my definition
of success then was very immature and was primarily related to financial goals or sale, you know, was on your 1099 or W2 at the end of the year. I don't know, fortunate or unfortunate, but I would say that that was my primary objective for the next 10 years, right? It was like, hey, you know, you make this much per year and like, you you want to profit this much or.
dollar amount that.
speaker-2 (07:31.33)
I would say that
speaker-0 (07:48.142)
you know, whatever those sales goals were, it really, really wasn't about the sales goal to me. It was about what that meant to me personally, which is not something I recommend. It was a very immature view, but that's what it was.
And I'm thankful. I'm thankful for this.
But fast forward my life, ultimately, I had a really good friend of mine pass away. He was actually at our high school reunion and passed away driving home that night.
two really small, really young children.
both boys and I have three boys, right? And it's time I had two at the same age, maybe six months apart.
speaker-2 (08:24.77)
I got that call the next morning. was allowed that. Before he left. The next morning.
Last one I hugged the night, right before he he's the last one I hugged. morning I told Nicky, I said, you know what, something's got to change because the
goals that I had set at.
2003 at 23, know, forward my life 10 years, I'm 32, 33. I realized that, from the way I married my best friend, like, who's, you've seen her, she's way out of my league.
And here I am, here I am never there. Right? She had a nice house and a nice life. Do whatever yoga she wanted or whatever, but, know what mean? And it just kept, I jumped on the hamster.
speaker-0 (08:54.606)
there.
speaker-0 (09:00.654)
That's not what she cared about. I did in 2003 and just kept going. No one had really challenged.
those same, that same activity and and me, when
Sean had passed, suddenly like this light bulb went off like, hey, what am I doing? Right? And I had two small children at home, small boys who need a father. You know, they had one, but he wasn't there as often because he was working. He'd leave at 5.30, 6 in the morning. And then I'd be home at eight or nine o'clock at night, which at that age, they're, it was a week. I don't care how you divide it. You're gone a lot.
You work 70, hours
Yeah. And yeah, in retrospect,
speaker-0 (09:44.302)
I remember like my oldest who's 15 almost 16 now but two at the time I remember him getting up early and starting to like clamor at the door he'd get up at like 530 or so in the morning six o'clock right before I left. At the time you didn't think anything of it I didn't put two and two together but now knowing like he knew what he was doing right and he missed his dad. Yeah. It was it could have
And I didn't.
speaker-2 (10:03.8)
Yes. So I was thankful for that wake up call. It was,
I could have stayed on that hamster wheel and not known it, you know?
What would you say at that moment when life all of sudden re-prioritizes itself, how did your version of success look at that time? Or was it even definite yet? Did you have to sort of rediscover what success meant to you in your early 30s?
I think immediately I knew that
and so.
speaker-0 (10:37.078)
I wanted to buy back more time, right? Because like I was, the financial success was there, but it was costing me a lot of time to get there. And so I knew immediately, and I even told Nikki, like the moment I got that call, I like, hey, we gotta do something different. You know, what that was, don't But through a lot of prayer and answered prayers, there was an opportunity in network marketing, which is something that for me was very taboo that I did not.
didn't know.
speaker-0 (11:06.454)
appreciate, didn't even think about it, didn't have experience with it, but just had a perspective that wasn't of value, that it was something gimmicky. And either way, Nikki was involved with a, started to become involved with a network marketing company that she took their products when she played basketball in college.
And I met some mint.
some who became mentors, but I met some in that organization who challenged everything I thought I knew.
And I was so thankful for it and my.
Buddy passing away, I was open to it. Yeah. I'm not open to it probably. think I've already had it figured out.
speaker-2 (11:40.344)
That doesn't happen to me.
Yeah.
Yeah, a little stubborn, maybe a little ego involved back then. Way more than today's world, but, than me today. But, so I'm open to that. I meet these men, ages, few a little younger than me, some about the same age, some 10 or 15 years further down the journey than me.
varying.
speaker-2 (12:05.691)
and what they were thinking.
saying really challenged my thinking and I was open to it and what they were saying the more I thought and the more I like prayed and just meditated on the more it made sense. If that I now say I wanted through this network market was so opposed, right? And so I thought, you know what? I don't have a better option. I haven't figured out another solution. So why not try this one? So.
They also had built the light.
anything that I
speaker-0 (12:36.556)
That's when Nikki and I just decided to lock arms. And that was, and we painted a vision of time freedom and the things we wanted. And at that point, the money, we still had a lifestyle of support and the money still mattered. And so we had to find a way to do both. And that was our answer.
Do you think that at that time when you start thinking about buying back time, what it sounds like today, who I know you to be today from our interactions and from just reading about you, before I could find and what you sent me a little bit ago confirmed it, but when do you start thinking about, if the money is costing me a lot of time, when do you start thinking about
systematizing things in your life and in your work. When does this, you seem to be a student of systems now and a practitioner of efficient systems now within a really rapidly scaling organization that we'll get to, but when does the systems thinking begin?
Hmm.
That's a great question. Not during network marketing, during the early phase. I would say when we decided to run and that much like you're doing and I so appreciate watching you from afar because it's really impressive to watch. Thanks. Reminds me of a season of life for Nicky. And then once yes, right, essentially.
speaker-2 (13:48.097)
study.
speaker-2 (13:54.221)
area.
speaker-2 (14:05.374)
or once we said yes and no idea.
We ran, had no idea what we were doing. Just decided to bulldoze every wall that we could. Way too much. We realized, okay, we.
say yes to. And then along the way, we built the business, what many people can never do.
one tenth of one percent that actually do it. And that's not us, that's God. know, like that we just, he was just using us in that season and we're thankful for that.
Nobody ever and we did an 11 month.
speaker-0 (14:38.947)
does it.
Right? So like we went literally from zero to replacing my income.
zero in 11 months, which was the goal. Like, hey, replace my income and then allow me
me to walk away from that career.
And we thought.
speaker-0 (14:56.619)
If it takes two, three, five years, it'll still be worth it.
than 11 months and then realize that even within doing that.
we had more time freedom. When you're dealing with an organization that had 10,000 sales reps or whatever it was at the time.
but
speaker-0 (15:16.216)
so much demand on your time and there's so many different meetings they want you to or so many phone calls scale. We're really doing it to be parents. Network marketing companies now that have figured different ways to use. The company we were with was a very old school like, go to people's house, spend time in their living rooms and things like that.
that that doesn't really, know, you're talking to people who.
And there's other...
speaker-2 (15:40.91)
houses and.
But there's not like a playbook that says, go do this. You just kind of figure it out. Yeah. Basically through the pain, the pain that you experience. Yeah. You know, it's kind of a forced full mode, know, like, okay, this isn't working. Let's go, let's go dig into this. So let's try to build some leaders here and try to have them repeat that process. Then build three leaders. And they, those three repeat the process.
The survival
speaker-2 (16:02.392)
Maybe-
scales nicely. And about the time we had figured that out, happens.
you know, as life happens, right? About the time we figured that out, the company we were with, who had been around for 25 or 30 years, it was a billion dollar company, decided to completely do away with all their sales representation and go direct to consumer. like, was like, man, one day, you know, $50, $60,000 a month coming in and then next day, 30 days later, it's gone. Like, it's crazy. So.
you wake up and you've got
speaker-2 (16:37.198)
But I'd say it was during that.
that we really started to figure out.
even within a
an opportunity or a revenue stream that does provide more time freedom. In order to build a large scalable business, you really have to duplicate that leadership to figure out, and that's just like step one in some of the systems that you have to put into place. It really starts with that as your team, right? And those leaders that are on your team, empowering them to make decisions otherwise.
that
speaker-2 (16:52.216)
in
speaker-2 (17:13.699)
You
how you personally as a leader will have tremendous decision fatigue if everybody comes to you for every decision needs to make and just creating. And that's something I've learned the hard way as well, but I can say, I empower you. I trust you. You're here for a reason. I trust to make you decision. If you make the wrong one, we'll deal with it.
is pushing back.
speaker-2 (17:30.562)
We're here to help. Yeah.
think this is an interesting, because I share a similar feeling about things, is you said, my thought is I'll get this thing up to replacing my income with an Ikea and then I'll step away. You already had some sort of exit in your mind. And what's interesting about that is like reading about you being a fractional employee at Parler during a period of time and
Just thinking about what is that in terms of being of being all in with somebody during a period of time during a journey, but knowing I'm a passenger on this ship, it's your ship, you know? Because I think that it's actually an incredibly powerful person to have here and there when you need during different seasons. But it also avoids you getting burnt out.
on a specific role. It avoids them having to think about, have to keep this person tenured forever. But that came in that network marketing period. Why?
I think I'd love to take credit for that.
speaker-0 (18:54.446)
I'd love to give the credit actually more so but that's not my thinking somebody along the way and I'd like to give it to Ron Reynolds if you don't if you've never looked up a guy named Ron Reynolds you should he's like probably approaching 90 now one of the most tremendous minds I personally have ever encountered and I still consider him a friend even though he lives in California now and rarely speak although we did connect maybe a couple months ago on Facebook but
the over-
overall teaching from the mentors that I had in my life during that season was beginning with the end in mind. And so I think that if you are, it's one thing to
much of it.
speaker-0 (19:42.294)
It's one thing to approach things with speed, you know, not necessarily have all the answers, but as you start to gain traction,
and
speaker-2 (19:50.658)
still in.
that starting phase, I think it's important to understand before you get too deep into one thing or another to understand, what am I trying to do here? Yeah. You know, not stopping doing it, but what am I actually trying to do here? There's so much information that comes in, like the only way to get that is to get, you know, we've talked about this. Yes. It's to get into action and just massive action solves all problems, right? Yes. But Nikki gets tired of me saying that stuff, saying that particular statement.
Yeah.
speaker-2 (20:15.758)
But along that way
It reveals these things and creates these detours for you that you're supposed to follow. And you realize, you know what, I'm doing that. Take those decisions. It gives you an opportunity to reflect and say, OK, I'm going this way. I'd love your perspective too, because I know you're going through some of this now. But as this information is basically being dumped in the forehead with this, allows you to step back and say, OK, you're telling me something here. What else do I need to think about as I'm
while you
speaker-2 (20:41.698)
It'll
speaker-2 (20:45.166)
Yes.
speaker-0 (20:48.824)
positioning or transitioning this way and you're revealing this information to me, what else is it that I'm trying to do while I'm going down this?
and why not think through it now?
rather than be surprised later. so I think that's
because I think the...
There's a book by a friend of a good friend of Nicky's, our name is Ginny Donnelly. I think it's called The One Degree or I think it might just be one degree or the one degree. But basically the premise of the book is that a ship like sailing across the country. Yes. Really? It's so good. And it's so true. But a ship sailing across the country can mess up the Go ahead. But.
speaker-1 (21:21.614)
Somebody just told me about this issue.
them.
speaker-2 (21:29.954)
I'm completely
sailing coast to coast across
the world if they're one degree off an ever correct course. Friends between showing up in China and showing this up Australia or whatever it is.
in the next
speaker-2 (21:43.95)
I don't
know what you mean though, yes.
And so, and I need
Now, again, I just made that up, but there's apologies in there that make sense. Within that, you're constantly, the goal of this thing is that you're constantly, you're never setting course and forgetting about it. You're constantly making those one degree changes. You're constantly, you know, bouncing off the bumpers, right? Of the bumpers of, you know, if you're bowler bumping or bumper bowling or whatever. Yes. Life, and that's any activity you get into massive action, you know, there's going to be course corrections.
now in with
speaker-2 (21:59.278)
Ever did
speaker-2 (22:13.002)
And that's, you know.
speaker-0 (22:20.138)
on that way, let's just make sure we're on the right court, or that we're even headed to the right destination, or has that destination changed?
Yes, it's funny when this person told me about this yesterday. I said, what's funny is there's even a chance that the organization, let's say it's an organization that's the ship, it thinks it's headed somewhere. Everybody's heads down, making sure the ship stays floating. That's what they're doing. They're not really worried about how fast we're going, is it afloat?
The damn thing's in the middle of ocean just going in circles and you're like, thank, well, we're going to get somewhere eventually. And it's like, actually you are just going in circles. We're not even one degree off. We're 360 in perpetual stagnation here. So it's interesting you say that. I think like as you, yeah, in terms of taking massive action with the end in mind, it's funny because I've been thinking this too, like it really, when you don't have a
clear view of the end, the best thing you could do is pick something and get started and know that as you pursue with all of your intention, all of your focus, and you're really taking it all in with awareness, the end will reveal itself and become more clear to you as you go. But it's the
It's funny because sometimes too when you're taking the massive action you feel so clumsy and so Like it man this feels awkward But I'm gonna do it cuz I gotta figure out what's on the other side of it cuz I don't really I got nothing else today I got to just do this and even what's funny is I just I just Found this the other day. I told Nikki this I think I told me yes voice memo, but the I had in my
speaker-1 (24:14.504)
notes app on my phone, through line development, spelled the other way, spelled like T-H-R-O-U-G-H, the boring way. it, which was fine. But in the notes it said, was oriented towards like big country artists, old legacy country artists is what I was thinking about. This package is going to be X amount of dollars.
It's going to be this many months long. Here's what the package is going to include. I did this in like August or September. Forgot about it. Today, I am looking at a church organization thinking to myself, okay, we've got to work on this proposal, which you're talking to me about and we're doing all this stuff. And I go back to that document to see, just to like pull some language to update, to like make a new website, just a landing page or something that
people know I exist. And I'm reading through the top of the document, I'm like, holy shit, this is the same exact package, not for a country artist for this organization over here. It's the same number, the same months, the same services basically, just applied to a different organization. So what I was thinking about was like, that's the importance of...
of picking destinations that you're gonna hit or putting these targets that you're gonna hit is that even in your pursuit, you might think, well, I didn't hit that thing, but it's still guiding you to where you actually did hit it. It just didn't look like what you thought you aiming at initially. But it's actually probably, since you've been informed along the way, more fitting to what is actually valuable in reality and to yourself, more aligned.
Absolutely.
speaker-2 (26:10.958)
Yeah, and I think.
I mean, yes, absolutely. you all have a perspective along the way that you don't have at the beginning. Like don't have that luxury of having that perfect vision with the perfect perspective or the wisdom along the way. you're allowed to change. You you're allowed to, of course, Yes. Because you have more information at
gain.
speaker-2 (26:24.398)
As you gain that, you're alive.
speaker-2 (26:29.23)
That's the beauty of that time. And you've done the activity to
to drum up the information or to drum up the wisdom, the mistakes, right? Yes. And that's just part. It is.
or you've made
part of it. That's a beautiful.
It's funny because you think back, like, oh boy, I said a lot of different things. I did a lot of different stuff in that period publicly to a bunch of people who like, oh my gosh, like now they're probably like, what are you doing now? I think to myself, like, is what it looks like. This is what it takes. and yeah, it takes anyway.
speaker-2 (27:08.398)
Yeah, and I think that even-
You know, you asked about the 2003 version. I won't say I'm embarrassed, but it took me way longer to realize that.
but it took me like I was so, I had that.
speaker-2 (27:26.914)
guy that was in he it at 23
I'm like, okay, so I set that vision at 20.
you could see in your mind what it looks like.
And then just like, work and then.
Like, head down, like just went and did the work. Got married, had kids, but was still just head down doing the work. And didn't really come up for air, right? Until I was forced to. And I'm thankful for that. But, so yeah, so with each part of the journey, I learned that. I won't say the hard way, because, you know, but our, you know, Nikki and I's marriage was not the strongest, right? It's, golly, it's thousand times better now. The time, you know, I'm never there. You have kids and...
speaker-2 (27:43.608)
Yeah.
speaker-0 (28:05.454)
crazy as you know, especially with young kids and they keep, it's crazy once you get outnumbered, it gets even crazier. I don't want to learn, right? So as you learn that, it took me 10 years to learn that. So the next round, try to start a little different, be a little more adaptive, a little more aware, right, of where you're headed. I think Steve Jobs quote that I believe wholeheartedly,
So yeah, so why run that again?
speaker-2 (28:20.675)
Hey, let's.
speaker-2 (28:27.382)
And there's a...
speaker-0 (28:34.102)
And I'm going to butcher this. I'm going to butcher this for sure.
But basically the, has something to do with if you
with basically you don't have to have all the facts. If you have the right vision, the vision will pull you, right? It's something, the end it is basically the vision's gonna pull you. And I believe that wholeheartedly. And I think the only caveat to that is to make sure that you are constantly valuing the information that you've gathered to make sure that the vision's still true.
It's funny, because even if you said to yourself, this is where I feel like I hit around the new year, was like, this vision still feels true to me, but what about what I'm doing today doesn't really feel that true to me in line with the vision anymore? Is there anything I could let go of that might make me more oriented or more aligned with the mission? What could it look like? Let's just like see. And you like start writing down like the different things. It's like, there's a
big one I'm really unsure if I wanna like write on here, but I'm gonna write it. I'm gonna write the word music on here and just see and just weigh it out and think to myself, cause I think too like getting attached along the way to well, this is what it has to be. I mean, how many company, I was reading about Toyota, they started out making like automated looms for making fabric, you know? Imagine that the,
speaker-1 (30:01.134)
founders of the executives were like, no, are you kidding me? We are not gonna stray from looms. Cars are not gonna be around in the future. Thank God they switched. Thank God they pivoted. Thank God they evolved. Which takes openness and it takes an honesty with oneself to say like, what do I really want? Do I really want longevity? Do I really want to hit the vision or do I wanna really like prove something? Just what matters, you know what matters to you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. that's, you know, about Friday.
You asked about fractional work or fractional perspective really is what I like to think.
of like, I think that it's such an advantage because if you're, if you're
you're in the weeds, right, of any business, whether it's your own or somebody else's, that it's hard to look outside of them. Like you have to be ultra intentional of stepping up and out and saying, hey, let me get some air up here. Let me get that 10,000 foot view and understand where we're headed. Because otherwise, sometimes if you're in the weeds, you don't know if you're going north, south, east or west. And I think from a fractional perspective, I think the same thing about coaching.
speaker-0 (31:11.352)
probably appreciate that perspective. The coaching perspective allows a different type of person, right? Because not every person can take ownership in something that's not theirs.
and it has to be a certain.
speaker-2 (31:21.974)
You like, and you realize like,
I think he's really good at that. Like she, she takes ownership in what clients are doing, She bears like the wins, the losses. She feels as if she's an owner.
in what her she like is invested. And I'm that I was built. We've understand.
the same way. And I think part of it is because we owned businesses, had some of those, I mean, just the headaches that go with it. Some of the sleepless nights. So we've been there and we can empathize with that. And we also realize that that's part of the recipe for success, right? Is you have to think that way. Those are the employees that you want, right? That are hard to recreate or hard to find. But having that ownership mentality, that ownership mindset around a business.
but yeah.
speaker-0 (32:05.422)
from a fractional level, from a coaching level, having the advantage of being able to pull yourself out of the weeds and stay up here is such a, just a, really a blessing.
and then.
speaker-2 (32:13.24)
Yes,
speaker-1 (32:17.934)
It is a I mean I I think that You come you know a week goes by you don't think a week's a lot of time weeks a lot of time if you're like working on something and you can get pretty far into a direction or in a way in a Think way of thinking and then you come to a coaching session or you come to see this you do speak with this person who is a Who is outside but who's outside your who's working with you in it, but out but like remains outside of it and can say
you can say where you believe you're at or what you think is happening and they say, is that true? And just that question, you're like, I actually don't know. I haven't confirmed whether it's true or not. I just thought that that's what was going on. Or even you're like stuck working on this thing and then someone says, what was the main goal we were pursuing again? What was the big thing that you were talking about last week, just seven days ago? It's like,
That's right, and it can snap you out of that sort of trench that you've dug yourself in. And that fractional relationship, whether it's a coach or I could see it being as an employee, that outside perspective, because even on the inside, I've been thinking about this, with an organization that is stuck in, I'm gonna call it a maintenance mode, it's stuck in a maintenance mode, but it's not protecting excellence. It's not.
Safeguarding the excellence anymore. It is safeguarding stagnation and the way things have been if someone from the inside of that speaks up that person if you think about it from like a systematic body perspective is attacked like it's like antibodies like Shh, like don't disrupt don't disturb anything here because we're all like we're all we all have our thing that we've inherited and if you mess things up it might if you disrupt it it might mess something up and I think that
So then, but if someone from the outside comes in, because I was talking to somebody yesterday about consulting, they used to work at Mead Johnson. Mead Johnson? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And she's like, you know, we used to say consultants are the people who come in, who tell us everything we already know. And I'm like, but it's funny, right? Like, because they're saying it, people take it differently than when somebody in the room says it. It doesn't have the same weight for whatever, you know.
speaker-2 (34:34.625)
Yeah.
Yeah, and I
There's definitely something to it.
And the same with if your wife tells you something, she can tell you because you're so close to her. Not that Chloe has any flaws, but you know, oftentimes your significant other will have some flaws that you're...
aware of. And you view it from a different lens. And then suddenly, or even your kids, like your kids say things
speaker-0 (35:01.39)
or you can certain things, but then suddenly a coach says something?
that they don't know anything about, even though the coach's middle name or anything. the coach has a right? only says Coach Osborne, and you've said it 10 times. And in network marketing, it was that way too. It ain't really in any business, the further you are away from them, more you have over them. And we used to use that in that business.
The says it and then it's like the gospel. The grandparents say it, right? It's God.
speaker-0 (35:21.87)
away from someone or influence you.
speaker-0 (35:29.39)
as well because you would bring in your best friend to an opportunity that was paying you $10 a month doing this thing. best friend, you could show back.
you can make thousands of
and you bring in your back, you show him your check, right? You're like, hey, no, this is what it's paying me. But he won't do it. But the moment you would introduce somebody like me or Nikki or whatever, even if we're making love, suddenly because he doesn't know us and he doesn't remember
was whatever less than him. He doesn't remember all those crazy nights in college or
Right. Whatever it he's not used to you. He doesn't know anything about you. He know even your last name, but he's going to take what you said, take it to heart. He's like, you know what?
speaker-0 (36:07.406)
Your buddy there had a good perspective. I think I'm going to do it. like third party credibility is real. And I don't like the word consulting either because I personally used to have the exact same belief around quote unquote consultant. But we had them, they didn't do anything, right? They would tell you, yeah, but like, and I like, that's why I prefer the word fractional.
Just that third.
and within.
speaker-2 (36:22.51)
My experience was limited when
and tell you
speaker-0 (36:34.338)
Yeah, it's real and having that perspective, same way with coaching, having the benefit of bringing that in and having somebody who's done certain things, who has experience, who can add value and really challenge the beliefs of the room and challenge it from a third party credibility, it really be impactful.
who
you.
speaker-2 (36:50.894)
can really
It's funny, you were just with us, me and Nicky the other day, and a couple of questions you asked me about were just basic honest questions about what the organization that we're talking about is. And I thought, and I had to explain it to you, and when you teach somebody about something, you learn more about what you said. And it really gave me some perspective of like, oh, that's right, this is different than a.
this startup, like then this other type of business that I've been thinking about. But just the honest inquiry of somebody who's genuinely like, I'm curious, tell me about this part of it or tell me about that part of it is enough to sometimes unlock something in your brain that was like, that was a stuck point for me. I appreciate that. Just to like question, you know?
Yeah. Yeah. that's probably the thing you can do.
Let's.
speaker-0 (37:47.022)
most impactful thing to do to a person or a relationship for that matter is ask questions. Like it's the most impactful. They don't need to tell the thing. You don't need to share all your stories. If we did nothing but sit here and that's why podcasts are so powerful. But first time we'd ever met, if all I did was hear and ask you questions about you, you would walk away from that thinking, and I really liked it.
You don't have them anything.
speaker-2 (38:05.363)
to
speaker-2 (38:10.178)
me.
F
on me asking you questions. Man, I like that guy. That was a great conversation.
you would think.
speaker-2 (38:23.094)
Yes. Even though it was. Yeah.
Yes, yes.
very one side, right? That's just life. That's how we work and that's how we get to know each other and that's how we get to trust each other. I I admire many things about you. You ask really good questions, right? And like you're very thoughtful, deep, insightful questions that really challenge thinking. Bring that type of person in any room and they're going to add value, you know?
And one thing, but.
speaker-2 (38:44.479)
in
speaker-1 (38:49.39)
Appreciate that. Yeah, thank you. Thank you. in terms of questions, I do have a question about when you decided, I met you right after you were in the middle of transitioning into a new role at Parler. You've been at Parler in the current capacity as Chief Growth Officer for, we're approaching maybe a year, getting close.
Yeah, yes, about maybe pushing a year and a half, but yeah, somewhere around that.
Tell me about why you joined Parler in that capacity. I know you've worked, you had your own store at one point and you're technically a franchisee at one point, guess. And then you joined in an executive role and then now here we are a year later almost. Tell me about why you joined and then what do you do? What is it? What's your job?
That's a great question. I swear that's so bad every day. You know, it gives it in a startup type.
of an environment, you know, I don't even know if you really have a job. You have a million jobs, right? There's a lot of things to do and a of different heads in the room.
speaker-2 (40:00.974)
Yeah, so I started out as a franchise partner.
I had the product, buddy of is one of the co-founders and he also coaches our kids in soccer. Great guy, great family, know the family really, really well. And so we were involved with them even during the pandemic going, during some of their initial growth prior to franchising, they had some, we had corporate, excuse me, corporate shops, which time, was a really unfortunate time for a lot of restaurants or fast casual retail space.
that
speaker-2 (40:30.464)
because everything shut down during the pandemic, they didn't have the cash flow to get through it. For us, since we were a startup at that time, it allowed for great opportunities to grow from a corporate entity standpoint. And so we put a couple of shops in the panhandle of Florida where a lot of people vacation, and then we put one in the West Coast and Oceanside, California, because one of the co-founders, Suns, lives out there and could manage it. And so, for us, but...
It was a great opportunity for
So I watched that growth. had the product. It was impactful. I thought I liked the vibe. The product was good. so decided, Nikki and I decided to buy some territory and open up some shops. Right. So we bought some St. Louis territory and Kansas City. Nikki's got family there. that
where we could own and still be able to manage it from where we currently live. Right. Gotcha. that was the goal. I didn't want to buy Florida or California, but maybe in a great market if I had to fly there or move there. Cause I wasn't that convinced. I wanted to move my family.
speaker-2 (41:34.936)
So yeah, fast forward, he opened up success, you know, with an emerging brain.
We opened up our shop, had great success, realized that urging and
Sometimes you're building the plane in the air. it's Yeah, that's right.
mentioned that recently. was, was it Reid Hoffman who said that? Entrepreneurship is like jumping off a cliff and building the airplane on the way down or something like that.
Yeah, that's so real. And this has been my first experience.
speaker-0 (42:02.178)
I experienced with what I would call a startup. So this is new to me, Other existing business that we turned around and things like that, but Brent, that's a different animal.
the word
speaker-2 (42:11.726)
That's a diff-
So we...
As I opened my shop, realized, okay, I was shop 32, I think. We're 32 and all of that had happened within a year, right? We got our, we started franchising in 2022. I opened my shop in 23. So basically we had opened, you know, a handful of corporate shops and the rest were franchised. so, I was during that, I'm like, Hey, this is a great concept. It's a great idea. The product's really, really good vibe, you know, is really, really good. Um, but some of the systems aren't there yet.
I realized.
speaker-0 (42:48.044)
it makes it hard. I wanted to build 10 of them, right? That's what the territory that I bought, I wanted to build 10 as quickly as I could. And we opened one, realized some of the pain points and started to create our own systems around that and ultimately figured out a lot. But, and then started to open a second one where we were buying that real estate and the real estate fell through for silly reasons, but environmental reasons like old gas station kind of dirty.
speaker-2 (43:01.688)
lot.
speaker-2 (43:12.654)
Yes.
have eight different inspectors and Chloe's dealt with the gas station before. It's something.
Yeah.
I did like 20 core drill samples and that's really expensive too. It's like tens of thousands of dollars to have this stuff done. And it was like a $2 million build or deal and ultimately the bank wouldn't do it unless they would dig up the whole parking lot, all the soil, dig it all out, feed it properly and then refill it with clean soil and then repave the parking lot. So we moved away from that deal. It wasn't meant to be.
was a whole deal. And it really did just. Right. in late 20s, I
speaker-0 (43:54.83)
Yeah, and during that time...
speaker-0 (43:59.713)
2023, I started talking to the founders, just saying, about some of the things I had found, some of the assistance we had put in place.
and some of the things that were working, some of the didn't work.
work, kind of other things that I see, like much like that same like fractional perspective, partner. So I was in the weeds of owning a franchise, but when it came to the franchise or I was able to sit up here, I wasn't day to day. I was able to sit up here and say, what about this, this, this, and this.
I was a franchise partner, but I...
speaker-2 (44:26.498)
And so they basically.
liked what I had to say. And so I came on a fractional fractional or operational back then figured out some, you know, pretty milestone moments for some of our operations and some of our ability to scale with some of our product and some proprietary product stuff. And one thing led to another. And one of the guys that my predecessor, his name was Paul, decided to retire. And that's when they came to me and asked if I would consider
Okay.
speaker-0 (44:57.686)
You know,
be just corporate. I've had a couple corporate gigs and you know where you're where you're everybody and
W-2 in the weeds with a
I take great ownership, sometimes it's different taking ownership versus having ownership.
Yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah. And so when someone else has ownership...
speaker-0 (45:20.466)
Sometimes you can't do exactly what you want to do and that's not something that sits well with me historically.
So I was reluctant to do it.
but ultimately felt called to do it. Like it was like, remove yourself from this equation. Like this is what you're supposed to be doing. Same way with like time freedom. We talk about that. I built, Nikki and I built a life that was right where we want it. It was good.
it. But there's a much deeper story.
as far as the calling goes, but ultimately I knew that I was supposed to say yes to the opportunity. They couldn't pay me the same of what I could make out in the open market. I just knew that I was supposed to say yes to it. And it's been amazing. It's been a blessing. They've got a great team, an amazing team, phenomenal growth. We just hit our hundred and first shop.
speaker-2 (45:50.017)
Lee.
speaker-2 (45:54.478)
They couldn't be, you
kid or anything like
speaker-2 (46:01.703)
so yeah, yes I did.
speaker-2 (46:12.439)
Do you remember how many had when you joined?
so when I jo
Going to originally in 2022, I think we had 12.
when you joined as CG.
speaker-0 (46:23.822)
and cg. would say around 60
Okay. Yeah.
How does a company operate differently with 60 stores a year later having 101 stores? Does it operate very differently?
Yeah, I think it has to, right? And then when I was working for Ashley the year before, I think when I came in there, we had 24, 26 open. So like we opened 35 or so that year and then 40 this past year. I'm ballparking those numbers, but you have to. And I think that what's been great about Parler's journey is that there's been leadership change, which can be good or bad, right?
when even
speaker-2 (46:49.272)
Yeah, okay.
speaker-0 (47:07.759)
The CEO is still same CEO, but the executive suite has completely changed over. And I think it's 100 % because of that. I think that the folks that got it where it was.
I was just thinking like this phrase.
right? Get it? Get you there. God is here, won't get us there. And I think that organically.
Yes.
We've got a new CFO, COO, a new CEO. So I think the right people.
speaker-0 (47:40.118)
All found Parler or Parler. don't, Parler didn't have a big executive recruiting push. right people just came to Parler for the right season and we're in that season. so the past really two years, right? Since two and a half years since I've been there in some capacity, just continually stretched kind of what we know. And we are far from perfect. We have a long way to go, but we're also way further along the
we'd be.
what we think we know.
speaker-0 (48:09.612)
on the way than we were two years ago, three years ago. So yeah, you have to, you have to think differently. You have to bring other experts from the franchising world too, to help you think differently. And I, I this all the time to, to our COO Joe.
I say that.
speaker-2 (48:27.63)
but it is remarkable.
how similar franchising is to network marketing. It's unbelievable. Just the systems, the skill, just the overall growth model is just so eerily similar. Yeah, and so never would I put two and two together, but it really is.
the scale.
speaker-1 (48:49.122)
Let me ask you this, like when today, I'm assuming you've spent a lot of time on if I started a new franchise somewhere, you guys just set me up with how the hell to run a new parlor in this place. If I opened up a new parlor and it isn't working, what would I be doing wrong? What would you think would, why would it not be working?
Yeah, I think there's there's a.
things, right? And these are things we've learned as well. Some of this we've learned the hard way.
At this point, we have different systems for picking locations, right? We're in the process of implementing a third party system that's got AI involved and like all kinds of metrics from all of our shops and all of our sales data and all kinds of things.
but I'll pick a location.
speaker-0 (49:41.902)
Taking the location, you hear this phrase location, location, location, it's so real. And that's only a perspective we have gathered or really doubled down on since I've been there. And so we're making much smarter decisions around location. Taking that aside, ultimately as a brand, we're...
or I call it.
a indulgent luxury or an affordable luxury. You know, in the doughnut world, you know, there are really
Get away.
What a indulgent luxury.
speaker-0 (50:17.326)
Yeah, like an affordable luxury. we're, you know, $4, right? It's $5, whatever. It's not a lot of money. There are much cheaper alternatives in that space. It's not the same product, not the same quality. these... ...is a donut in the space where you can... That's 88 cents or whatever that might be. And that's not... We call ourselves donuts, but that's not us. And so we pride ourselves on the quality of product. So people are coming there...
But
speaker-2 (50:37.698)
us.
speaker-2 (50:45.102)
They won.
It's because they want that high end product. They want that feeling. They want that impact of a higher end product. The ingredients that go into higher end product, real butter, like things like that.
And then also they want the experience.
And we talk a lot at Parler about the Parler experience and it's something that we have gotten wrong way too many times. I believe one of the ways to start getting it right is to be aware of it, right? And then figure out what systems you imagine. It's just me and you that own the donut shop and we show up every day and we're the ones running it. Chance of controlling how those products look.
but do believe ways.
speaker-2 (51:14.648)
you need because you can.
speaker-2 (51:22.072)
We have a really good.
speaker-0 (51:26.37)
how the peop- what kind of experience the people that come in, music's playing, that's right.
You know.
How long the person stands there waiting on somebody to come say, I, can I help you? Absolutely. All of the littlest things.
Blue.
Absolutely. And fast, if you grew really slow, you're.
speaker-0 (51:38.934)
And the f***er you grow, but one shop every five years, it'd be really easy to duplicate that. You open 30 to 40 shops a year and you get 100 shops in three and a half years, you know, sometimes those systems haven't caught up yet to the growth, right?
So.
And they're all over the place. It's not like they're all in the same region. I remember talking to somebody about, sorry, real quick, talking about an expansion plan for other local chain. And they were talking about, well, if we model it off of, shit, in and out, they are predominantly, or maybe all on the West Coast. And it was like, you do it regionally.
And then I remember hearing Parler opened up one in California and some in Florida. I'm like, that's an interesting strategy. We're going to go to the fringes and work our way back in or something.
Yeah, well, it's interesting. then I want to get back on topic. Yeah, it was interesting because if you hear the perspective of the co-founders, and it's not wrong. All of our growth has been, we've never, it's purely organic. But they wanted to put one real estate was available.
speaker-0 (52:41.102)
We had health and organic, like we haven't sold anything, purely organic growth.
speaker-0 (52:50.998)
but in hot areas, they want it in vacation areas or place that people visit so that when they're traveling, they experience our product and they come back and they say, hey, I want to bring that product to my hometown. I want to bring that product here. I don't have one. It's 300 miles away.
to put it.
speaker-2 (53:05.9)
That was the original thought, which worked. That's good. Within that, when you
grow, and I like to think we're a mile wide and an inch deep in most states. When you grow that wide that quickly, that is not necessarily the easiest path to scale or the easiest path for distribution. Like, there's different things. There's unique problems in there that we are solving every day because of that growth pattern.
that we
speaker-1 (53:31.938)
That's what I've always wondered is like, just in terms of quality control and having a similar experience here that I would in Florida or California, just where like sourcing dough or sourcing ingredients or sourcing, I don't know, just even like what the shop looks like, all of these things, seems like a, that seems like a great challenge when things are thousands of miles apart. And operationally, that seems like a great operations challenge.
Absolutely. Absolutely. Operations Distribution, a great partner within Cisco that helps distribute all of our proprietary stuff. And I think really more than anything, they just liked us. They just liked us and believed in us. Maybe more than ourselves and just said, you know what, let's help these guys out. All right. And so they've been a huge part of figuring out distribution.
Yeah. We got a great.
speaker-2 (54:10.03)
anything they, I think they, to be honest, yeah, I think they just believe in more than we believe.
speaker-1 (54:26.37)
That's great. I did not know that, but that makes so much sense that if you think about distribution networks across any industry, that Cisco being the basically the highway at which ingredients and things like that can travel around, they already have the infrastructure nationwide. The how, that makes a lot of sense to me now.
Yeah, that's the higher.
And that volume stuff, like they only deal with higher volume stuff. Sure. And franchising, even the bigger brands like a Crumble or something like that, deals with some of the lower volume issues with the lower volume products and distribution of them. Many times they set up their own distribution. I Crumble has two or three warehouses across the country that they house like little odds and ends and sprinkles and things like that, the only other option is,
every brand.
speaker-2 (55:00.898)
every brand day.
speaker-2 (55:16.878)
that
source on Amazon or something.
locally of FETA.
Yeah. So those are things we're exploring.
We have a distribution avenue with our coffee product, which is roasted here in town. So we're looking at maybe partnering with them, utilize them to distribute some of the smaller products too. yeah, the struggles are always about up until now. And I think that
speaker-2 (55:41.294)
The struggle is real.
I believe personally, I believe it's only going to get easier.
because we're gonna have more depth in each one. Each month or year goes by, but yeah, it's still a challenge that we think and spend a lot of energy on.
What I'm curious today, you're you hold an executive role in a growing company that has a hundred shops. How do you speak as an executive and how would you prefer to be engaged with as an executive? For example, we hear often if you're going to talk to a CEO, be concise and clear about what you need. You know, don't bring me a problem, bring me a prominent solution. Maybe I sign off on it or whatever. How do you think about.
Do you think about it? Because when I see you walk in a store, everybody knows your name, like talking to employees. You engage with employees and you're very friendly. So I'm just curious if you've thought much about.
speaker-2 (56:41.058)
Yeah, I do think that the larger
company gets, there's advantages to, I guess there can be advantages to distancing yourself, I guess, in some capacities. That's not really who I am. And we're still small company, so it's not a hard decision. We're still very much a family type company that we all are just working hard to get certain things done within any emerging brand or startup.
B-
speaker-2 (57:07.21)
in within.
speaker-0 (57:11.968)
It seems like you're all wearing a lot of hats and there's never enough time to do it. There's not enough money to pay everybody. And like pay your worth. So.
You know what mean? I think that I don't know that that.
scenario would work, right? I don't know that hierarchy would work. It's also just not who I am.
I, if I.
I want to enjoy working with someone. Like I want to enjoy the person. And then I feel that if you create that type of environment, that it's fun, it's enjoyable, like you like each other, you work hard, you just get stuff done. And you want to be approachable. Like just from my perspective, I want people, even though it may consume a lot of my time, I want people feel that they can come talk to me about things. It's something silly I can redirect, right? Yeah.
speaker-2 (57:46.157)
Yeah.
speaker-2 (57:54.616)
want people to
And then if it's
speaker-2 (58:02.136)
rather
have that, you know, kind of cheesy word, but open door. Yeah. That people feel that you're approachable and really want to know, like, what are the better way to know than just to be available? One of the worst things, and I've seen this in other companies, I've worked for a company like this, you can do is have all your people know either you're not approachable or, know, you're an asshole, whatever it might be.
right?
speaker-2 (58:22.24)
One of the worst things you have all, but you don't.
speaker-0 (58:30.86)
Or they don't feel there's enough trust there that they would trust you with this, type of information. But the worst thing, CEO or any type of executive leader is that everyone else knows, but they're afraid to tell the executives the truth. And that just defeats the purpose. All right. Like, so there's so many different perspectives.
apart from the inside.
Absolutely,
And it's toxic and it's yeah, it's crumbling.
And there's no, and I used to...
speaker-0 (58:54.41)
used to feel this way with sales reps too. Like I can only be as a leader. I can only be in so many trenches at one time. And I try to get in the trenches with, you know, at least on the sales side, you want to get in the trenches. You want to get.
I don't understand what they do. But you can only do this.
So often, right, you're not doing it day to day. So they're going to, they're going to have more information every single day than you ever will as a leader. And so you have to rely on them and then you have to gain that trust where they feel like they can tell you things that I want to hear. But, and so one of the first things I do, and I say it often is I give my team permission to step on my toes. Right. And so really step on the organization's toes, right. Say something that's ugly about the organization. If we need to hear it.
thing.
speaker-2 (59:33.806)
And that's.
speaker-1 (59:39.758)
Question.
Question exactly question. Don't just don't just bury your head in the sand and just deal with it
Don't assume that we know. Yeah, like don't assume back at the HQ we know what happened in your shop today. have no idea, unless you tell us or unless something's going on.
Yeah, absolutely.
speaker-0 (01:00:03.88)
of the franchise partners is something that we've got to figure out. think that's a, obviously I haven't been involved on that side very long, but that's something that we strive to with the franchise partners as well. And as we continue to grow, we're trying to figure out ways to, do you bring everyone in to hear their perspectives, whether it be a franchise advisory committee and things we're figuring out this year.
important that are critical and not that their perspective is always right because
We, with ours obviously they can't see what's going on behind our four walls. What better way to figure it out for both of us.
either. But
speaker-2 (01:00:41.368)
than to get in the room or create some.
sort of intentional space where we can dialogue about that stuff and there's trust and say what needs to said.
you know, it to be.
Yeah, I could see that. You know, we, used to work at AZIP. I was a training manager at AZIP for a couple of years. I missed that, think. Yeah, don't know about AZIP. This was before I was a teacher and stuff. Early 20s, I first moved back from LA, in our mid 20s. And they used to come in, the office would do, they would surprise you and do a home office takeover. So all the executive level, which is still a small company back then, it's not very big now. And comparatively, we're talking about
with Parler, but they would come in and the home office would take over and all the employees get the day off, paid day off, and they would do the work. And oftentimes too, they would come in and like help out with busy stuff. And I always would cut it up with them and talk to them. That's how I got to meet the Niemeyers and other people who, but I've thought about this so much, how much buy-in that created for me as a training manager to want to make sure that this
speaker-1 (01:01:49.176)
High school kid knows how many pepperonis go on the damn pizza. That's too many olives. Would you want that pizza? Look how salty that shit's gonna be, you know? And they would give you so much permission and autonomy. Now I really can see it through the frame of an organization and how much trust that earned them, me and them. I think they felt good knowing that people like me gave a shit about the organization and then...
I felt good knowing that they were willing to pop in and actually get their hands dirty inside the trenches like you're talking about. It's such twofold for just health and wellness of the actual...
Yeah. Plainfield, you know. I think, and those are actually,
I don't know those guys well. think we have a of mutual friends, but I admire what they're doing, what they're building. I think they're building it the right way. I admire their product. Their product's good, right? It's very consistent. What appears to be even the financial decisions they make, I think are very strong. They're not so concerned about growth. They're concerned about doing it the right way.
the life.
speaker-2 (01:02:50.9)
And they even like.
speaker-0 (01:03:02.747)
So yeah, I admire that business. I admire it from afar for sure.
family business. Yeah. And we frequent it as well. Yeah.
Okay, I got one more question for you. If you, if we looked ahead, let's say three to five years, what gets you excited about the future? Where do you see Justin in three to five years? If we look out, what do we, what gets you amped about what's to come? If you had to articulate it.
Yeah. Well, thanks. Nick and I talk about this kind of stuff a lot. And like, of my favorite things about her is her mind and like the, just the dialogue there. And like that's, I I'll act it to her for one reason and then fell in love with her for another.
So, a couple-
speaker-2 (01:03:42.7)
So I was attracted.
speaker-1 (01:03:46.87)
One thing about this, I was thinking about this and I didn't ask you because it's probably a whole other podcast. I'm reading a book right now and a hundred year old book about success says the basic successful partnership starts in a marriage. And how if you marry the right partner, you have given yourself such an advantage in life versus either not getting married or not having a partner who's supportive. So I'm just going to say that because
It seems like you guys mutually hit the jackpot with each other.
For sure. Yeah, without a doubt. And she'd naked for a couple years and she just kept telling people, right? so, and then one day we into each other on her birthday and just it was really inseparable ever since. But yeah, and she's an incredibly beautiful woman, but I fell in love with her mind, right? Ultimately, that's what intrigues me.
And I per-
So then you ended up dating somebody else and whatever and then you ran into
speaker-1 (01:04:45.038)
And that's what lasts, by the way. Somebody told me early on, they're like, look, who you run around with on Friday nights, great. It's who you wake up with on Sunday morning. If you're still down to sit on the couch, you got a good one.
For for sure. And so we talk about this a lot. so three to five years.
from now, what exists is working together in some capacity, more than likely fractionally or coaching together, traveling. This is more my vision than hers, but she's willing to do it. And it's something that we were going to do. I told you the kind of the really the only real estate nightmare that we've had that our realtor friend Chris bailed us out of.
but.
During that season, we were going to buy an RV, like a class A RV, and homeschool the kids, and travel around the country for a year or two. And it took two years to sell that house. And that was actually one of the podcast episodes was that. And it was just learning.
speaker-2 (01:05:42.062)
a lot, lost 80 grand on the dang thing.
It was a learning lesson, a learning season for sure. At same time that our business went away, it was a season for sure.
Sure. Yeah, but had the visions at all the
research on travel around the country. so, and we're going to homeschool the kids. then by the two years later, by the time the house sold, the kids were older, they were involved in everything and just wasn't the right season. So you very much would love to see the country, partially in an RV. And then if Nikki gets what she wants through Airbnb's, you know, just live remote and different work remote together, because we love solving problems and thinking through problems. And it's, get
We love
speaker-2 (01:06:26.744)
I a like
get a lot of that in everyday business stuff, businesses that I'm involved with, but also get to swoop in and offer perspectives in her business, which is a lot of fun for different clients. I don't necessarily know all the details or anything like that, but I get to jump in and kind of just, get to lay off each other's minds for a while.
It's nice to be fractionally involved with her because you probably don't need all the information to come in and offer a perspective. It's like, nice. Yes, I needed that. Thank you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we have a vision of.
of in the next three to five years.
speaker-2 (01:07:04.384)
of.
scaling back our life as far as like just possessions, things like that, and traveling, being intentional about that. We want our, whether they will or not, it's up to them, but maybe they're playing, know, athletics in some way, but they're going away to school. We travel around occasionally, stop in and visit them, you know, and park the art, park the big old RV there, or stay in, you know, the Carolinas for a season or go to Maine for the month in the fall.
we boys to go away to school.
We hope that they go away.
speaker-0 (01:07:35.886)
that kind of stuff and just work for Ashley together and ultimately that's what we like to do and we've
It's really hard.
to learn how to work with your spouse. And through that, before, we've ironed out some of those details within Network.
marketing when we worked together for several years. yeah, so I would say that's
That's what we're excited about doing. know, most of our real estate portfolio is paid off at that point. So we've got cashflow from that. And yeah, the whole goal is... And I know that and oftentimes God has other plans. So he may give us a redirect along the way, but right now that's what we like talking about.
speaker-2 (01:08:06.028)
you know.