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A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.
The Witches of Eastwick w/ Rachael Alexandra
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Emily: [00:00:00] Speaking of Tango Whiskey Foxtrot, these headphones are like, kind of spitting up blood, but I'm just too, too proud.
Rachael: You look so cool, though. Like, you look like a little secret agent.
Emily: Thank
Emily: you.
Ben: Speaking of tango and cash
Jeremy: Were we?
Ben: We were just talking tango, I'm like, I hear tango, I just hear tango and cash. That's it. End of joke.
Emily: Okay. I still had fun. I just want to know.
*Music*
Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to Progressively Horrified, the podcast where we hold horror to progressive standards it never agreed to. Tonight we're talking about, how do you describe it, the weirdly horny, extremely 80s. Witches of Eastwick. It's so much more and also so much less. I am your host, Jeremy Whitley, and with [00:01:00] me tonight, I have a panel of cinephiles and Cenobites. First, they're here to challenge the sexy werewolf, sexy vampire binary, my co host, Ben Kahn. Ben, how are you tonight?
Ben: How do you describe this movie? Easy, it's Hocus Pocus meets Sex and the City with a healthy dash of The Shining.
Jeremy: Sure. Okay. That's not an inaccurate
Ben: Look, this movie proves Beyond, if you had a shadow of a doubt in your mind, after one flew over the cuckoo's nest and the shining, that there is any actor who has ever lived that can do a psychotic breakdown like Jack Nicholson, this movie will convince you.
Jeremy: A man who's never been accused of underacting. Um, and the cinnamon roll of Cenobites, our co host, Emily Martin. How are you tonight, Emily?
Emily: Well, first of all, this movie's from the 90s. And you can tell because of the fashion.
Ben: It's extremely 1987.
Emily: this movie's from
Jeremy: Nope, this movie is from 1987.
Ben: 1987.
Emily: All right. Well, I'll see you guys later. Um, I [00:02:00] have to turn in my, uh, my card of, I don't know, just being a person. I know I love this movie. I love this movie, whether it's from the 90s or not.
Ben: Oh, this movie was so much fun. This movie's a
Jeremy: it is, it's a lot of it.
Emily: There's, yeah, yes.
Ben: is no part of this movie that isn't at 11 at all times.
Emily: I don't know if this movie is weirdly horny, because it's just, it's weird and it's horny.
Jeremy: horny.
Ben: That's what it is. You're right. It's weird and it's horny, but it's not weirdly horny.
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: how I described John Updike, the writer who is responsible for the book this is based on, as a singularly horny man. Um, before we get into John Updike too much, let me introduce our guest tonight. She's a comics artist and animator. She hosts the Animation Communication, that's Kim Communication, podcast.
Jeremy: And she famously loves Kim Possible quite a lot. It's Rachael Alexander. Rachael, it's so good to have you. The
Rachael: Yeah, thanks for having me, um, on your thing. I, I just knew Jeremy did a podcast and [00:03:00] we were trying to figure out when a good timeline to be it, to have it, or do a podcast, I don't know but Jeremy's been on five podcasts and we know each other from the pony days I'm a YouTuber person, the pony, the times of the pony.
Rachael: So I don't do as many pony cons as I used to back in like 2000, like
Jeremy: I've never done as many pony cons as you used to.
Rachael: Oh no, it was, it was a time, but to be fair, there were more PonyCons to be, to be done than there were now, so, you
Ben: My main experience with PonyCons is I've watched the Bob's Burgers episode about a PonyCon, like, at least 12 times.
Jeremy: It is not inaccurate. is
Ben: Have you been forcibly been given a tattoo at one of these, Jeremy?
Jeremy: No, I have been gifted things that are borderline pornographic about ponies.
Rachael: I have some war stories if you, if you guys want to be indulged, but yeah, there's um, there's a time to be had and, you know, it's [00:04:00] very much dependent on who is running the convention and their priorities as moral humans and, you know, just kind of, it is what it is.
Ben: In terms of this movie being weird and horny, it does do one of my least favorite tropes in movies, which is get rid of the glasses when you're trying to make the character hot. I'm not saying we could save Hollywood by showing David Zaslav librarian porn, but it couldn't hurt.
Jeremy: I mean,
Ben: could, and it definitely will, but we should do it anyway.
Jeremy: I do have to say, as we get into this, that it is a unique fuel mixture of weird people because it is directed by George Miller. Who, if you know, you will probably know as the Mad Max guy, like directed, made all the Mad Max films.
Ben: the director of Happy Feet, so, the guy's got rage!
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: indeed. It is written by John Updike, [00:05:00] who, as I said, are referred to as a singularly horny man.
Jeremy: If you've ever read any of his, uh, especially his rabbit books, there's just a lot of sex had in, in things that there's, he's a, a very horny dude.
Ben: The winner of the, uh, literary prize for most punchline sounding name.
Emily: Good for him.
Jeremy: and just the screenplay is written by Michael Christopher. It stars a murderer's row of people who don't seem like they should be in the same movie. Jack Nicholson, Cher, Susan Sarandon, Michelle Pfeiffer, Veronica Cartwright, and Richard Jenkins looking incredibly depressed and beaten down in this movie.
Jeremy: Richard Jenkins has a rough time of it.
Ben: It's so weird seeing Richard Jenkins with even that much hair. Also, fun fact about this movie, did you know that Darryl Van Horn, the original choice, was Bill Murray?
Rachael: Yeah, I read that. I believe that. You
Emily: I believe it too, I'm glad that they didn't, because
Ben: Nicholson was the way to go.
Emily: yeah, that would be a very different [00:06:00] movie.
Ben: I feel like Bill Murray would've actually come across as uncomfortably scummy, whereas Nicholson somehow, like, managed to horseshoe theory it all the way around into, like, just cute and charming. Like, even while being weird a weirdo psycho monster.
Rachael: at least he made it entertaining.
Emily: Yeah,
Rachael: my takeaway.
Ben: Like, when he's, like, On the bed when the scene was Cher.
Ben: I feel like with Bill I feel like I would have been legitimately uncomfortable with Bill Murray, whereas I was fuckin laughing my ass off with
Emily: No, Bill Murray would have been sad.
Jeremy: yeah. Bill Murray! Bermuda really dropped out of this movie. He was supposed to be playing that part. He was cast, he dropped out. Also, weird fact Susan Sarandon was cast in Cher's part originally, when Cher When they, you know, when Cher signed on to do the movie, she was like, I am only doing Alex, I am not going to play Jane.
Jeremy: And so she was cast as the part that was [00:07:00] supposed to be Susan Sarandon's, and Susan Sarandon didn't know it until she showed up to the first day of filming. But I cannot imagine that switched around. I cannot
Ben: Oh my god, right?
Emily: yeah,
Ben: Like Susan Sarandon is so good as Jane,
Emily: yeah,
Ben: I truly don't know if this movie would really work, if it wasn't a wall to wall A list cast, but it does, so it's delightful,
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: I don't know what it is about Susan Sarandon that she so well fits the part, and this was the case with The Hunger as well, of like, seemingly reserved character who is decidedly down to fuck.
Ben: and honestly, you just think about, like, All those analysis videos, and the book, all those screenwriting books, and how much ink and thought has been put into like, How do you make your main character likeable? How do you get audiences to connect with and engage your main character? And it turns out the answer is, Be in the late 80s, and cast Cher, Susan Sarandon, and Michelle Pfeiffer.[00:08:00]
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: Cause the movie has to do NOTHING, NOTHING, for me to be in love with all three of them.
Rachael: I
Emily: Yeah.
Rachael: was just gonna say, and they seem objectively, like, not pleasant people, just outside their little bubble, because, you know, I guess there was some implications that they all have kids, but we don't really see the kids too
Ben: Oh, by the time the movie's over, they have NINE kids between
Rachael: I
Emily: Yep.
Ben: It is them, NINE children,
Emily: actually.
Jeremy: Michelle
Ben: I'm sorry, TEN.
Jeremy: own basketball team of children.
Ben: Pfeiffer absolutely looking like a woman who's had six children in this movie.
Jeremy: Yeah, just frazzled and Cher's got the one But Cher's is older and this was something I caught on later in the movie because Alicia was like How do they get this time together if Michelle Pfeiffer has 800 kids? I was like because they do a point where like they come Michelle Pfeiffer's crew comes over to visit Cher and like Cher's kid just gets shoved away [00:09:00] with all the other children to go babysit.
Jeremy: I was like, oh, got it.
Emily: It's, uh, what is it?
Ben: There's definitely a Guildenstern and Rosencrantz are dead, where it's like, where it's like, Cher's kid and Michelle Pfeiffer's oldest kid, where it's like, Welp, I guess our moms are in a polycule with the devil now.
Emily: Yeah. That's a lot of responsibility.
Rachael: don't really see the movie being made, um, like, in a modern sense, because there's just some things that were there that I feel like it was trying to be really sex positive, but at the same time, like, it had those implications of just, like, don't, what are these, like, what, what, what about the, like, it just kind of, like, made you whiplash, and I was like, why are they just, like, cool with all this, if he's just kind of being a scuzzbag, you know, it just
Ben: I was not
Jeremy: about this movie is that it is about the devil coming to a small town and forming a polycule with three witches [00:10:00] who do not realize they have Supernatural powers until like they accidentally summon him and then he like starts to show them But they don't ever say the words witch Devil or magic at any point in this movie because it's not really focused on the magic part It's much more interested in the sex that the witches and the devil are having
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: I will say, and Kathleen put this together the movie never spells it out, but it does explain why only on that day, Does it seem like they're, how, like, they start doing magic powers even though they've been hanging out for years? Because Jack Nicholson says, like, oh, like, and again, it's him being like, I'm weird and very misogynist, but in a Jack Nicholson way, and also the devil, and he mentions, and he says, like, Oh, a woman doesn't reach her full potential until she's been left, and they have like, oh, like, dead what is it?
Ben: It's like, dead, disappeared, and [00:11:00] divorced? No, dead, deserted, and divorced,
Ben: and,
Emily: and desertion. I
Ben: And the day when their powers start actually working. is the exact day that Susan Sarandon's divorce is finalized. So it's the, so that's the first day that all three of them have, are like, free of their husbands, and that's why their powers only start working then.
Jeremy: Yeah, this movie
Ben: Credit to, credit to my partner Kathleen for figuring
Jeremy: This movie does not care about explaining anything.
Ben: No, this movie just wants to show you like, Susan Sarandon in incredible dresses and sharing pigtails, and also a very extended horny psychic tennis scene. I
Emily: love
Jeremy: Horny Psychic Tennis is my favorite sport.
Jeremy: I don't know why they don't have that in the
Ben: this movie. I had a fuckin ear to ear grin across my face the whole time watching this movie.
Emily: Psychic tennis seems to be the thing that diffuses all Jealousy, all conflict. Why don't we just take him, [00:12:00] take him and take it to, you know, Solve all the problems of the world. We can just get world leaders to play psychic tennis with each other.
Ben: can we talk about the fucking, like, the musical sex scene? That was wild.
Emily: Which one?
Ben: Susan Sar Susan Saran Susan Sarandon and Jack Nicholson's the first one. They're playing like
Emily: Oh,
Ben: in the
Emily: yes, yes.
Ben: Like, her literally just like, the bow literally on fire.
Emily: Yeah, what is this, Master Exploder?
Ben: Like, this movie is such subtext is for cowards, and I love it.
Emily: And that's why you don't have to say the word devil or witch or, well, he does say he's like a, I'm just a
Ben: He's a horny, he says he's a horny little devil. Incredible! Incredible, this movie!
Emily: Yeah, yeah, I'm like, just flash your dick at me, movie. Just stop. Just like,
Jeremy: it's funny to me because
Emily: Oh, you are? Okay.
Jeremy: so many movies and so many, like, Shows and stuff that I really, like, love dialogue in, [00:13:00] and that pe that other people watch and they're like, People don't really talk like this. But that's how I feel about this movie. It's like, there's a lot of, like, dialogue that's delivered, especially by Jack Nicholson in this movie, that I I would not stay in the room for these speeches.
Jeremy: Like, halfway through I would just be like, Oh my god.
Emily: They predicted internet discourse.
Rachael: Yeah, that was my experience too with the movie, because I was the only one that like, I was like, oh it's gonna be fun, it's gonna be Jack Nicholson as the devil, and I didn't expect I wanted to go in blind, so I didn't expect such like, on, on main horny energy, and I was like, oh wow.
Ben: the devil, like, his tent has devil horns on it.
Emily: Yeah, he's called Daryl Van Horn.
Ben: I kept waiting for him to be like, actually have a plan. But it seemed like his most like, evil to the world plan was mostly just fucking up like, some birds? Like, just really, like, he really stuck to [00:14:00] those migratory birds, but that really seemed to be the extent of the damage he wanted to do.
Jeremy: fuck those snowy egrets, I
Ben: Yeah, fuck them egrets!
Emily: excuse you, egrets.
Jeremy: EGRETS.
Emily: Yeah, it's, I've never heard anyone in the world say egrets like that. Snowy egrets.
Ben: as far as what his, like, plan is, you know, beyond just being a controlling, abusive, like, maniac at the end, his plan seems to be, I'm gonna get into a polycule with these witches, fuck up these egrets. The end?
Emily: I have a theory about this. Um, okay. I was, do you want me to do this first or do you want me to do the recap first? Because I have,
Ben: Theory, theory, theory, theory.
Emily: okay. So he's, he is not the devil. Here's, he is a devil. He is their
Ben: horny little devil?
Emily: He is a horny little devil that they summoned. They, you know, they read the secret and they manifested this [00:15:00] devil and
Jeremy: devil. The
Emily: this fuckboy that comes in and says all this fucking wack shit that is a, like, really performative, woke kind of shit, you know, before,
Ben: seduces Michelle Pfeiffer by essentially going like, I think it'd be pretty cool if I was trans. I'm not, but wouldn't that be cool?
Emily: well, he does, he does this thing where he listens. Like, that's the one time he listens. And he's, for the other, the other people, for Cher and for Susan Sarandon, he's like, corset ripping and whatever, like, he's just this crazy romance novel of a guy, but then there's like a bunch of, you know,
Ben: this movie would have if it was like, a handsome dude and not Jack Nicholson. I love that the movie can't even bring itself to actually call Jack Nicholson handsome. They call him Catholic,
Jeremy: is like, You're the ugliest fucking person I have ever met. And he's like, Yeah, but wouldn't it be funny to fuck me? And then she's [00:16:00] like, Actually, kind of.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: He's like, Wouldn't it be funny to fuck me and use all my money to do whatever you want to do? And she's like, You know, It would. It would though.
Jeremy: And then students are in and he basically just teaches her how to masturbate. And that's what is required.
Emily: Just like in Pleasantville.
Jeremy: yeah.
Emily: I don't recommend that movie, but, Yeah, so, but he, they manifested him and he helped them purge themselves of the, like, internalized sexism that they were experiencing in this in this little town which the,
Ben: this town. Fuck the town. I hate this town.
Emily: the log line for
Jeremy: know about you guys, but this, that first scene with the high school band and the real shitty dude, like, doing the long speech with the 800 quotes from the Bible in front of the church and in that fucking sunlight, I was like, Oh my God, I've been here. I've been here and it's still a nightmare.
Ben: well that one of his, [00:17:00] that, even before that, one of the very first scenes of the movie is him going to Susan Sarandon being like, Hey, have sex with me if you want a job.
Emily: Yes.
Ben: if I can lay a real criticism at the movie, this dude did not get enough comeuppance.
Emily: That's true. That's true.
Ben: I needed that dude like eaten by weird claymation demon Nicholson.
Emily: that would have been really cool. Damn it. Well, maybe he like choked on one of the cherry pits that was vomited all over him. But yeah, so
Ben: I do love, yeah,
Emily: oh, I was just gonna say I have a theory. Okay. So he's, but he's like a manifestation and that comes with all of the flaws. That is folded into their idealism.
Emily: Right? And for me, like, yeah, there's a lot of problematic elements to that, but it makes sense to me that way, where he comes in and he's like, I'm going to say all these things that, you know, you, you wish that men would say, but I'm also a giant dick and you know, that, and like, I'm, you know, I'm, I'm [00:18:00] very, um, God, I shouldn't have had so much white wine before this.
Emily: I watched this movie and I
Ben: no, no, that's,
Ben: no, you you should you should have white wine before talking, before watching or talking
Emily: Yeah, no, okay. But
Ben: I might go get someone while you're doing the recap
Emily: Okay, sounds good.
Ben: I mean, so much of Nicholson's seduction strategy is just to quote Dragon Ball Z abridged, I know you're playing me, but you're right.
Emily: Yeah, or like, I know you're playing me, but I know that you know that you're kind of full of shit, and so I'm still, I mean, like, that's something that I find really relatable is when the, like, this fucking cartoon character of a dude comes up to you and is trying to say, like, all the right things and, you know, is like, you know, we're not quite getting to the negging, although he gets to that later, but you know, like, pickup artist shit.
Emily: But this is a guy who's like, I'm so full of shit, huh? And I'm like yeah. And you know, it has worked in the past and that's on me, but I mean, it's, it's a thing that like, I think is important to address, especially with, [00:19:00] with the, uh, the idealism that is coming and especially from these things that women are told that they should like and I think that that is a step for that movie, you know, it's in, in its, to its credit.
Ben: we've, so again, we've watched a lot of horror movies for this show where horror is metaphor for abusive relationship. Like. And I think what sets this apart is that normally like, it's always like, this person was is lost or damaged or like they're, they always have to heal or recover from the abusive relationship. What's kind of strange, and again, probably because it is like, the devil and they're witches, and also this is just a sexy fun comedy thing. Before we get Daryl becoming, you know, violent and abusive. and incredibly control and incredibly abusively controlling, you do get not I'm not gonna say because of him, but maybe [00:20:00] through him or inspired by each other, like Before things get worse, you do get a sort of thing where it's like, oh, all three of these women are becoming, like, their best selves.
Ben: Like, Susan Sarandon is so much happier and more confident, and musically talented. Cher is believing in her artistic abilities and pushing herself to new bounds. Michelle Pfeiffer has six kids.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: Um,
Rachael: there vibing.
Ben: she's
Emily: Yeah. She,
Emily: got a perm
Ben: she's bou she's bouncin a tennis ball off her butt. She's havin a time, like. It's like, you wanna see him defeat, and I do appreciate that this movie doesn't come with the message of like, Oh, they were better the way before, like, this still ends with them being like, A sexy polycule living in a mansion, being fucking glamorous as hell.
Emily: yeah,
Rachael: Mm
Ben: this movie shows them defeating this abusive heart without giving up on the, on [00:21:00] this, Rich, fuller, more liberated selves they've become.
Emily: yeah. I mean, it's an allegory to excess rather than like, a, uh, cautionary tale
Ben: This movie,
Emily: the thing itself.
Ben: I think, really ascribes to my personal belief of all things in moderation, including moderation.
Emily: Yes, that's really good. really good.
Ben: Thank ya! I'mma put it on a t shirt.
Emily: yeah, you should, uh, subscribe to our Patreon,
Emily: um,
Ben: Do we still have that?
Emily: the, yes we do,
Ben: We just do it for we just do this for the love of the pod!
Emily: We do, we have a Patreon so we can make extra stuff that you have to pay for also because, you know, we like to be able to do things like buy new equipment so yeah,
Jeremy: for our own hosting.
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: before,
Jeremy: before we jump into the recap, uh, Rachael, did you have anything you wanted to add? Any, like, big thoughts about the movie?
Emily: Yeah,
Rachael: [00:22:00] well I didn't want to interrupt the flow I guess because you guys have a have a rhythm and I was just like I'm just vibing but yeah, I don't mind vibing. But yeah, I was probably the most you know just Not very sexual person in nature, just generally speaking, I didn't really, again, I didn't really know what I was going to expect going into this movie, but, um, I was watching it with one of my, um, with one of my friends, and he was like, Man, I'm kind of curious how this podcast is going to turn out, because he also didn't really expect it to be such, like, corny on main energy, but I think, like, as, you know, I just turned 30, so I'm, you know, I'm, like, kind of still in the millennial thing, it's just, like, it's weird, like, it's kind of, like, The movie's trying to be feminist, but it's also kind of reads like it's written by a man at the same time, too, if that
Ben: Oh, 100%. Oh,
Rachael: know,
Rachael: and so
Jeremy: Updike is the most
Ben: Totes goats.
Jeremy: male feminist, like, that, you know, he's, all, all of his stuff is very, like, women should be sexually liberated because I like to have sex with them kind of stuff.
Rachael: right,
Emily: their nipples [00:23:00] through their dresses. God damn it.
Rachael: It seems like kind of suburban Game of Thrones was the vibe I felt when
Rachael: watching
Emily: Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Ben: i, I wish, I do wish it was gayer. Like, I wish I could honestly look at Cher, Sarandon, and Pfeiffer and go like, Okay, they're all together. Even without Daryl, like, I, like, I wish I could say this still ends on, like, a queer polycule. Instead of, like, a co parenting situation.
Emily: we could, if we had a card at the end that said, and they're married now, like, or something, that would be,
Rachael: Yeah, because it seems like, to me, like, I would be mad if this guy is just coming in and fucking my friends and fucking me, and then we don't, we also just don't know about it, but it seems like, I, it's, I'm glad that they had that relationship, that that's all cool, but like, it's just, we, the weird tension for the tennis match thing, it's
Ben: I didn't like that. I didn't like the jealousy, which was also, it was strange that Susan Sir was [00:24:00] kind of Like, didn't know, because the vibe of Cher and Michelle Pfeiffer on the way there was like, It was very Pollyamorous to start with, where Cher was being like, Okay, Michelle Pfeiffer, I just met this guy.
Ben: He's not a good guy, but he's a good fuck, and I feel great about myself. I want to introduce you, I want you to get that good fuck energy too. Like, it seems like Michelle, like Cher was bringing Michelle Pfeiffer there to Cher Jack Nicholson.
Emily: Yeah. She was trying you know, invite her in, so to speak. And this is why communications is communication is important
Ben: Oh my god, if you're gonna open up your rela like whether you're poly, whether you're just physically open, Communication is the key.
Emily: yeah. Not all problems. This movie makes some false promises. Not all problems are fixable by psychic tennis. Not all polycules can dissolve tension through psychic tennis. Not all polycules can
Ben: If it did, Prince of Tennis would have [00:25:00] ended a lot differently, I'll tell you that.
Jeremy: trying though.
Rachael: Yeah,
Emily: I mean, you could try,
Ben: I know we have to do the
Emily: your heart.
Ben: but there's one element of the movie we haven't discussed.
Rachael: after you. Uh, I have one more point, but
Emily: Okay, yeah, please.
Rachael: I was just gonna say oh, whatever, sorry.
Ben: No, no, no, no, no, no! The floor is yours!
Emily: Yeah, you're a
Emily: guest.
Rachael: just gonna say, like, I, I guess going back to the children thing, I guess it's hard for me, like, I'm one of those people that, like, you know, hyperfixate, not hyperfixate, but, like, I notice all these little things
Ben: No, that's what this podcast is for. No, this podcast is for watching movies, and then hyperfixating on the little details, and going I'm sorry, how the fuck did that work?
Emily: Yeah.
Rachael: like my my, my protagonist to be actual, um, decently good people, and I watched all of BoJack Horseman, and I didn't like it just because BoJack wasn't a good person, and I know that's the point, but just still, like, it's hard to spend all that energy with someone who's just so Fucking toxic. So like, you know, I got the [00:26:00] vibes pretty early on that these women were just kind of ignoring their children and, you know, their real lives to go fuck Jack Nicholson.
Rachael: And I'm like, is it going to get better? Is it going to get better? And at the end, like, they all have, they all get pregnant and they all have babies and it doesn't really, like, they don't really have any, like, consequences that, you know, people die, but it's not really their problem kind of thing. And I was just like, that's like kind of.
Ben: Well, the, the person I, I'm glad to say it, because the person who dies Is who I want to talk about, because while we have raved about the well deserved performances of all the stars, Are you the movie's secret weapon is coming out of fucking nowhere, Veronica Cartwright as Felicia. Holy shit.
Jeremy: Veronica Cartwright, who we've only actually talked about this woman before in context of the movie Alien
Emily: Oh my god. I
Jeremy: yeah,
Emily: didn't even fucking clock that.
Jeremy: who she does next to nothing in Alien. She's just the, you know, the other woman that's on the ship, um, who [00:27:00] I guess canonically is made trans as of Aliens but also doesn't really do much in Aliens for that to be like celebrated, I guess.
Emily: Yeah. It's not
Ben: that's it's
Jeremy: trans and now dead.
Ben: it's nothing. It's less than Dumbledore being gay.
Emily: Yeah, well, far less.
Rachael: The bar. This
Emily: Subterranean.
Ben: the bottom of the barrel.
Emily: The double the dumble bar? Is that what you said,
Ben: The tumble
Jeremy: Now I, you said that's the bottom, I said, as is Dumbledore.
Ben: EYOOOOO!
Ben: Oh man, Veronica, Veronica Cartwright fucking just breaks her leg, like, Felicia breaks her leg and then just fucking glares it off like a champ.
Emily: Yeah. Yeah,
Jeremy: so dedicated slut shaming these women that she will walk, she will, she will continue to do so even with her leg broken, even as she is vomiting cherry pits, even as she is being murdered, she will continue to slut shame these women. She cannot be [00:28:00] stopped.
Ben: Now, I do say, there is an interesting thematic point, because she is also clearly tied into the supernatural. She is clearly also Attune to what's going on. Now, and I wonder to what degree this is supposed to represent You know, the anti feminist women leaders of the time, like, you know, how the leaders against, like, the Equal Rights Amendment were women, like, if this was supposed to represent somebody who's, you know, who's expression of their own personal empowerment is, in its own way, anti feminism, or if she's just kind of, like, God powers?
Emily: I feel like her manifes her power and her sight and everything is part of the curse of Daryl. Like, s she is the scapegoat in all this.
Ben: I, I do realize that my attempts to connect fucking Veronica Cartwright in Witches of Eastwick to Anita Bryant [00:29:00] might not be the most elegantly thought out of ideas.
Emily: Yeah, I mean,
Jeremy: But, I mean, she is, she represents a hyper religiosity that was Incredibly prevalent at this sort of Reagan time
Jeremy: in
Ben: still is!
Jeremy: and still is, but particularly in a, a place like this, in a time like this, would have been just sort of like this loud voice that people just can't fucking ignore no matter how much she is like, cause, I mean, she is not wrong that they are doing witch stuff.
Jeremy: But also, they aren't actually hurting anybody until the, until she pushes it to where like, you know, they hurt her inadvertently or inadvertently as it may be. But yeah, it's really like she represents a real sort of like nagging moralism that like makes everything worse. It doesn't. You know, there's, there's no point at which she is, like, trying to help them, [00:30:00] or trying to warn them.
Jeremy: Like, she sees them and their promiscuity as as much of the problem as it is. him and is more concerned about the fucking egrets than the other people living in town. So I mean, she is sort of horrible in her own special moralizing way. Does she deserve to die? I mean,
Emily: but I think that there's significance to the fact that her own husband kills her and he is not affected by this curse. Like, he is not being cursed in any way. He's just
Jeremy: she is his curse, I would say. Like,
Emily: yeah, but like, you know, but he doesn't recognize anything supernatural going on. He just is like, he just is done one day.
Emily: Um,
Jeremy: and her answer to Like them is not to pray for them not to try and help them not to talk to them But to like get her husband to fire one of them like from her job, which she is doing well So like I don't know Richard [00:31:00] Real he's the the real put upon one here you know to the point that when he does finally end up murdering his wife you're like I mean, it's wrong, but I understand.
Jeremy: Like, I get it. I
Ben: you've never seen henpecked like Richard Jenkins is henpecked in this movie.
Jeremy: mean, it is wrong to beat anybody to death with a fire iron, but we all have a limit. At which point, I can't say that I wouldn't beat somebody to death with a fire iron. Like,
Rachael: a fun podcast.
Ben: There's also just the craziness of, he does it and then he goes back to reading his paper.
Emily: Yeah, I mean, it's, it's a very cartoony kind of like domestic man at the end of his rope. shall I?
Ben: yeah, yeah, let's, yeah, let's get, Recap
Jeremy: one more thing I wanted to bring up before we go further. That has nothing to do with anything except for I think it's fucking hilarious and they don't say anything about it in the movie, which is After the scene where, uh, [00:32:00] he has we fade to black with Jane, like leaping on Van Horn finally getting it as she's wanted to be getting it.
Jeremy: We don't see the end of that scene, but the next time we see her, you know, her whole hair and aesthetic has changed, but he literally has like claw marks
Emily: claw marks on his face.
Jeremy: was like, Whoa, she really fucking went for it.
Ben: And
Emily: nobody said anything about it.
Ben: It's just there, and you know why it's there.
Jeremy: He has gouges like he fucked Wolverine. Like, that's the situation he's got going on on his face. Like, I
Emily: he not?
Jeremy: We just kept going from there. Okay, so, yes, that was all I wanted to say. Is, uh, that's another one of the just hilarious things they don't actually talk about in this movie.
Jeremy: They just do.
Emily: Yeah, there's a lot of things that are done in this movie with extreme and, like, done to completion that I don't understand, but we'll get into it. So, we have, there we go, we talked about the basics, the [00:33:00] stars, the writers, the director. So now we have our setting. It is the small, humble, white New England town of Eastwick.
Emily: Three long suffering single women deal with typical small, humble, white town problems such as sexism, assault, and the much maligned single motherhood. We have Alexandra, who's played by Cher. She is an artsy sculptor widow who lives in an old riverside house with her teenage daughter. We have Jane, played by Susan Sarandon, who is a demure cellist, recent divorcee, music teacher, and Suki Michelle Pfeiffer, who is a single mother of six and a struggling small town journalist.
Jeremy: I do want to ask something real quick. Just, quick timeout, I, I need to take a
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: A poll. Have any of you guys ever met anybody named Suki?
Rachael: No, I just know the
Ben: do characters from Too Fast, Too Furious, or Avatar The Last Airbender count?
Rachael: Yeah, I was gonna be like, there's one in Avatar?
Jeremy: Yeah I know of at least [00:34:00] five Sukis that have been on television and in movies. And I have never met a Suki in my life. This is like the Marvel Universe and Hanks. There's just fucking Hanks everywhere. Uh, and I've never met a person who goes by the name Hank. I don't know if
Ben: I know, I know, I know Hanks. I've met
Jeremy: Maybe it's just, maybe it's just New York.
Jeremy: Maybe there's just an excess of Hanks in New York.
Emily: I'm trying to think if I have met a Suki, but like
Jeremy: but there's the, the two Suki that Ben mentioned and there's, uh, the Suki who's the chef on Gilmore Girls, that's her best lo i's best friend. There's Suki Stackhouse from the the True Blood Show.
Emily: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Jeremy: And then this Suki, I was like, I, that's five Suki.
Jeremy: I can name off the top of my head from like. Movies and TV. I've never met a Suki in my life.
Emily: Yeah, I was trying to think if I have known, but like, I don't even know. I don't know. Yeah. No, I've never met a Suki.
Jeremy: Okay.
Emily: Anyway,
Jeremy: Time
Ben: no,
Ben: no,
Emily: I feel like short for something, but [00:35:00] I don't know what it is. So
Rachael: Something, maybe?
Emily: maybe,
Rachael: Yeah.
Emily: uh, Email us, tweet us, progressivelyhorrified at gmail. Is that our name? Is that our email address?
Rachael: yeah,
Ben: imagine it's a, I think it's a more common name in Japan and then I guess just people trying to make their characters sound,
Emily: well, there's Suki and there's Tsuki, which are different and there's probably like
Jeremy: that. I
Ben: further questions.
Emily: Yeah, I know it's hard to, this is an audio medium and I don't know if my microphone is that good, but
Ben: I know it's an annotation based language, but I'm an ignorant American and we don't do that shit here.
Emily: it's mostly phonetic, but don't worry about it. Okay, so we have Suki, we have Jane, and we have Alexandra. The ladies start noticing odd occurrences around the town when a storm interrupts the Reverend Pastor Principal and Womanizer Walter's overlong speech. I don't know what his actual job is, I don't know if he's a [00:36:00] principal or a reverend or a pastor, but I'm just deciding that this is what, he's what he represents.
Emily: Afterwards over some martinis, they wish for a handsome
Ben: his job is patriarchy. Ken, job his job is just patriarchy.
Emily: Yeah, there we go. Afterwards, over some martinis, they wish for a handsome dude to come into town and stir things up.
Emily: Enter Daryl Van Horn, mysterious and off putting dilettante, played by Jack Nicholson, who has just bought the local historical Lennox Mansion. He has a weird little ponytail, bananas ass fashion, lots of money, too many pianos, a manservant lurch, and an obvious need for a CPAP machine. He is here. To stir shit up.
Emily: He starts courting our protagonists in oddly specific and unhinged ways, such as, he leaves Jane Flowers in a note and then follows up with some performative woke overtures and a music lesson. He performs one of the most aggressive duets I've ever seen and she plays so hard it literally sets her cello on [00:37:00] fire.
Emily: He offers Alex lunch, a catboy dance, and in no uncertain terms, he offers to be her sub. Meanwhile, Gossip Queen Felicia, who is our Veronica Cartwright, is going nuts because she clutched her curls so hard that she gave herself a compound fracture. The bone marrow in her blood is apparently making her paranoid, and she just about hand packs her husband to death.
Emily: bUt not quite, as we find out later. Jane and Alex bring Suki to meet Daryl, and he is already starting to put them, or to set them against each other. Their dispute dissolves, however, over the game of magical tennis. Polycule on! Daryl lands Suki by playing the goofy, sensitive type and actually just, like, listening this time, as opposed to talking at length about what women are and how cool they are. Uh, apparently Satan is really into camcorders. A veritable romance novel plays out as Daryl wines and dines our heroes, showers their kids with money and balloons. It's so rad that the ladies start levitating. [00:38:00] Meanwhile, Felicia causes a scene at church and starts screaming about witches and dildos and how she's gonna do something about the devil in the big house.
Emily: Vice Counselor Proctor Reverend Walter starts freaking out now because Jane is letting loose and only black magic can make those band kids play properly. The locals slut shame Jane, and the local paper runs a hit piece on Daryl, making things difficult for Suki. The hit piece apparently was the result of Felicia pressuring her husband, Suki's boss.
Emily: Subsequently, Felicia becomes possessed and starts projectile vomiting. And then her husband silences her with a fire poker. Murder gives the ladies pause and they start arguing viciously about all their parts in this. Their argument causes a literal earthquake. They each enter own. They each enter their own unique abyss and set some boundaries.
Emily: Darrell notices their absence from their usual orgy sesh and starts harassing them with a some emotional manipulation, love bombing, and stalking. So romantic, huh? In the midst of this, Jane finds out she's pregnant and visits Daryl while he's [00:39:00] being very normal and watching his TV while I play videos that he took of them discussing their favorite nightmares.
Emily: And no, no, the nightmares are coming true! So, Daryl's rude tricks go too far when he causes Suki to hemorrhage, almost to the brink of death, and the ladies realize that they are all pregnant. Alex confronts Daryl about being an asshole, and he just about goes for an Oscar trying to deflect her. She seems to give in and Suki's hemorrhaging stops.
Emily: The ladies return to the mansion and look and fly as hell there. Looking fly as hell? It's orgy time! Or is it? It is actually. Um,
Ben: I'm pretty sure that, yeah, they do the
Emily: oh, there's absolutely
Ben: They, I mean, based on their conversation at the end, it's definitely also implied to be, get their one last fuck on.
Emily: Yeah, so they do have some other things in mind. The next morning, still bathing in Afterglow, Daryl goes shopping with the Manser Fidel. That's Lurch. His name is Fidel, the character not
Ben: [00:40:00] Oh, we're gonna need to talk
Emily: we're gonna talk about that.
Ben: We're gonna fucking talk about Fidel, believe you me.
Emily: All right. So while they're in town, our hero starts using their witch powers to do some serious hexes on him.
Emily: They Looney Tune his ass right into a church and he vomits cherry pits all over the congregation during a sexist rant. Oscar, Oscar, Oscar. So yeah, Alex, Suki, and Jane. Know that they summon this jerk, and so, of course, they should be able to get rid of him, you know, you sing it here, you sing it back, just like in the classic film Rock and Rule, that I'm sure all of you have heard of. Thank you. Um, but it won't be as easy as a little bit of sympathetic magic. Or will it? Daryl Carrulla devils his way back to the house and the girls clean up, setting the stage to sexily greet him, and he starts unleashing the wrath of hell. Are they powerful enough to stop him? This isn't even his final form!
Emily: But actually, yeah they are. They reduce his leviathan form to, into a weird little baby demon which then just fizzles into [00:41:00] nothingness after, they like cut his wax, dick off or something like that. It's I mean, it's pretty powerful. Good for them. Um, the ladies inherit the mansion, Daryl's money, and 18 months later, the family has three new little boys.
Emily: But does Daryl's influence remain? No, actually, not really. It doesn't. The witches of Eastwick now live happily ever after as a family polycule complete with manservant Lurch. The end.
Jeremy: Do love Lurch is, Fidel is more than happy to continue to be their servant after, after Van Horn is gone.
Ben: I feel like Fidel just, like, came with the house, maybe? That he's not actually there for the devil, he's just reserved in the house, he'll just serve, like, he's a house spirit, maybe? Maybe! I don't know.
Rachael: my reed too. He was, not human.
Ben: Why was he wearing a turban in that one scene?
Emily: He was wearing a turban in a couple scenes, which was like,
Ben: What was up with that?
Emily: maybe they like, really liked him as Mr. Hom. And they were like, Look, we need you to [00:42:00] channel girlboss's manservant.
Ben: Look, he definitely
Ben: was dressed like Look, I could definitely see him, like, serving Cardi B grapes in a music video, don't wrong.
Emily: yeah, yeah, I just, I, the turban was weird.
Ben: Look, we don't have analysis, it doesn't fit into the themes, it doesn't we don't know how to interpret it through progressive politics, it's just going in that category we like to call, Shit that happened!
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: I don't know what it means, but, it happened!
Emily: probably could have been less problematic.
Ben: Yeah,
Emily: That's, that's my, probably could have been less problematic, uh, area there.
Ben: if this was a video, we would have a could have been less problematic banner going across the screen sparkles.
Emily: yeah. Could've
Ben: The more you know, have been less problematic.
Emily: Yeah, the less proble the could've been less problematic tier,
Ben: Look, still only a 3, like, still only like a 3 of an Ace Ventura, though, so that's a
Emily: yeah, yeah, that's like a [00:43:00] whole unit. Jesus
Emily: Christ.
Ben: That is the unit. It goes from 0 to Ace Ventura, and you just measure things on that
Emily: Yeah, how many how many how problematic is this? How many Ace Venturas is it? Um,
Ben: but
Emily: how Michael Bays is it?
Ben: Yeah, God, you gotta become Lurch. Fidel, yeah, just goes from unquestionably serving the devil to like, yeah, I'll serve this, like, ma this mama cule.
Emily: Th that character in films? I mean, he's always playing that character.
Ben: actor, if you rec hey, if you're a Star Trek fan and you recognize that actor, he is Troi's mom's servant,
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: This dude just plays that he's just got such henchman energy, this guy.
Emily: He is ultimate girlboss manservant. Morticia Adams, Lwaxana Troi, the Eastquake, you know, and then whatever he's doing in Twin Peaks, apparently he's a servant of a [00:44:00] girlboss in that too, because in Twin Peaks Returned, the girlboss shows up and she's like, Go float over there, and he's like, sure, I know exactly what's going on in this situation, cause it's Twin Peaks.
Emily: That's a joke, nobody knows what's going
Ben: Nobody knows that,
Rachael: I got distracted by a cat to be
Ben: The the the thing was
Emily: Happens when we talk about
Ben: anyone, if there is anyone in this entire goddamn world that said I actually understand Twin Peaks, and I believe them, it would be you, Emily.
Emily: That's like the nicest thing anybody's ever said to me. and the time I went to the convention and the person that I was just random person I was talking to at a booth was like, you make a really good Lucifer. And I'm like, I'm just wearing this in a t shirt. I thank
Rachael: Yeah, conventions have weird energy where people just say things and they mean it to be true. Like, one way and then it could be read another way, like, I've gotten, like, people tell me I'm, like, I'm attractive at conventions, and I'm like, thanks? I guess? I don't really know you? Like, yeah? [00:45:00] So
Emily: I was blonde at the time. And then I think it was like the haircut of Lucifer from the Sandman. And so they were like, Oh, you're like, he's Lucifer. And you know, they, what they didn't know was that I have obsessions with. Satan in media, which is why we're here today.
Emily: Um, so yeah, I've noticed the thing, a theme, Satan, crazy fashion sense, always. Fucking Jack Nichol Daryl Van Horn's fashion sense in this movie was beyond that's why I thought it was 1991,
Ben: Oh, when shows up to Cher in that fucking, like, black and silver patterned jacket?
Emily: and
Ben: Holy
Emily: gross little ponytail, like, I don't even know
Ben: OH MY GOD, THE PONYTAIL! THE FUCKING PONYTAIL! WHY WAS JACK NICHOLSON IN A PONYTAIL?! THAT BOTHERED ME SO MUCH!
Emily: even a whole one.
Jeremy: He gets like,
Rachael: to be, like, a visual representation for, like, horns, because it [00:46:00] seemed like his hair got crazier as he went, so that was my only
Ben: Well, that's also, it's like, I feel like with most actors, they're like, Okay, here's one, like, you're starting to see the demon come out. What kind of prosthetics, what kind of makeup do we need? Oh, Jack Nicholson just didn't sleep for 12 hours? Great, let's go.
Emily: Yeah, let's give him a fake foot and then, you know,
Rachael: He's camera ready!
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: walking out of that church with like, just, it's just his face. That's all the needs. It's just this, the fucking demented look that he gets, uh, both here and in the Shining.
Ben: And I that you look at that face and you go, Wow, what a great Joker, and we got that. But, oh wow, this was before Batman A9, damn. A. Anyway, but also, does it make you think, like, I wish there'd also been, like, a 1990 Spider Man movie that he could've been Green Goblin in.
Emily: That would have been really interesting. Definitely no surfboards though. I don't think he could have gotten, like, he's not the action guy [00:47:00] that, that fucking Willem Dafoe was, although that
Ben: Yeah, I mean,
Emily: the surfboard,
Ben: well, I mean, that's the thing, we did get Willem Dafoe twice, and he was great both
Emily: Yeah. And the second time they actually fixed what, like, they addressed What was wrong with the first time,
Ben: He is, yeah, just Willem Dafoe's Green Goblin is my second favorite part of No Way Home. The first, of course, being the fuckin 90 second Tom Hardy cameo that I convinced he ad libbed in one take and then drove away.
Emily: I've, I really, yeah, there's like an extended
Jeremy: just found him at a bar already at for that bit,
Emily: he's like, oh, yeah.
Jeremy: Uh, I'm bar right now. guys film
Ben: Danny Rojas from Ted Lasso. That's the honest biggest plot twist of the movie, is Danny Rojas is there. Just serving drinks to Venom. Why wasn't that the whole movie?
Emily: Yeah, why didn't we get more venom
Jeremy: Why wasn't that Venom 2?
Emily: Yeah, real. For real.[00:48:00]
Ben: Venom 3, more Venom.
Emily: Yeah. Less Woody Harrelson in a wig. Sorry.
Jeremy: At least wig in movie is better than his wig in the, like, end of the first VEDA movie, which
Ben: I feel like,
Emily: Oh,
Ben: feel
Jeremy: looks like he's
Ben: I feel we all have
Ben: different, I feel like we have different definitions of the word better.
Emily: Yeah, okay. Alright.
Ben: but talking about this ridiculous ass movie,
Emily: Yeah, Jack Nicholson is, he just looks at stuff. Like, that's his evil. He looks at stuff and acts at like a 15. Like, he's going around with all of his, like, Reddit rants about, like, how woke he is, and it's like, it's kind of ahead of its time in terms of, like, what we understand in pop culture as, performative wokeness.
Emily: And I think that this is, like, for sure intended that way, yeah.
Rachael: Mm hmm.
Emily: In the movie, like, it's intended that he is not, you know, he is just saying this shit in order to impress and, like, seduce these women. Like, he's [00:49:00] saying, he's doing what he thinks is necessary to build them up so he can own them, which is obvious in the whole turn, turnabout that he does when they actually lay down some boundaries, right?
Emily: Um,
Ben: feel like with the Delos, it's kind of like, Yes, he's absolutely saying, and this is where, again, the movie does explain, and this is where I was never, and I don't think maybe the movie needs to say it, but I feel like the differing interpretations is, is he saying whatever he needs to say to get them and further, you know, get their power for, you know, have the children he needs for some more elaborate plan, like, is he saying what he needs to further his own ends, or is he, Saying whatever he needs to say to get to them because they have conjured him into existence and he only exists to say whatever he needs to say because that's, like, his reason to of being.
Emily: yeah, [00:50:00] I mean, if he is just something that they conjured into existence. then, you know, it kind of takes the punch out of the
Ben: get into some more fucked up Frankenstein angles where it's like, you made a man, fucked him, and then tortured him to death.
Emily: Well, he, he was shitty. So
Ben: He was shitty. He
Jeremy: made that way if they, if
Emily: yeah, they make maybe that's, you know, that's it's like the monkey paw
Ben: I think the movie works better if he is summoned rather than created
Jeremy: Well, yeah, I that's, of the differences between this and the original Updike story is The original Updike story, he's a warlock, not a devil or the devil. You know, so he is, using them for their powers. He is, you know, they're better than him. So, you know, he, you know, is going in to use them, which doesn't make Uh, necessarily as much sense with the devil, except for that's, I guess, what the devil does with witches, theoretically, anyway, a book and you get magical [00:51:00] powers and shit.
Rachael: I was gonna say, I thought they were laying the groundwork for three individual men and they were like, you know, the devil was the ringleader kind of thing, not like
Rachael: it was
Ben: Jack Nicholson is all three of
Emily: well, he's supposed to be,
Ben: Nicholson in different costumes.
Emily: yeah, I think he is supposed to be, and that's probably why he's not like, you know, that's probably part of the monkey paw, is that like, if you confuse it too much, you get Jack Nicholson, you know, like,
Ben: I think it
Emily: happens your power is out of control.
Ben: they couldn't agree on dick size, and so when he, Nicholson like, came out, he was just sort of like, with Schrodinger's dick, and every time he looks down, it's like a different size, and that just like,
Ben: gave
Emily: I think that's what,
Ben: and I think that just like, broke his brain Evangelion style.
Jeremy: hm hm.
Emily: so fucked up.
Ben: Just his weird Schrodinger's dick.
Rachael: about a climax, a doot doot.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: Hm hm hm hm hm.
Emily: That's good. Yeah, I do think that, like, he, well, I think that he [00:52:00] is kind of, like, perceived in a slightly different way than with each of them. And I also think that each of the women see a different dick. Like, I think that's what happens.
Ben: Also, appreciate that the first Michelle Pfeiffer, when he finally introduces Michelle Pfeiffer, he's just at the other end of the pool and Susan Sarandon and Cher are just there, presumably watching quietly.
Emily: yeah, that's why, like, after the tennis match, they're all cool. They're like, okay, you know,
Ben: Yeah, but I, still thought Michelle get like her own private seduction scene, not just like, and now we cut to the other side of the pool.
Emily: that's how you know that her fantasy had to include them. Because in each case, each woman's fantasy was addressed specifically, right? Where apparently Cher needed to dom, like, hardcore dom. She needed to reduce this man to rubble, and then have him beg [00:53:00] her
Ben: I mean, I get it. After watching this movie, can you imagine being topped by 1987 Cher? Holy shit!
Emily: No, I can't, because it's unimaginable. I think entire generations have formed and fallen contemplating this. And, you know, and I think that we've certainly accomplished things as a species because of this conundrum, but it is not unknowable. It is unknowable. I shouldn't say it's not unknowable. That was me stuttering.
Emily: It is unknowable. And that's what brings us as a species to become something greater. The, share instrument. Yeah the instrumentality of share. Sharing is caring.
Ben: Oh, I knew, I had to have known it was gonna circle back around to Avon Kellyan.
Emily: I, well, I was talking about evolution.
Ben: But no, you're,
Rachael: say like, I like Mamma Mia too, but anyway,[00:54:00]
Ben: you have appreciate, I guess, that the devil is a switch? Is that the message of the movie?
Emily: the devil is versatile. He has to be what you want him to be in order for him to be the devil. Like, that's how he gets in there and that's how he's
Ben: I, I feel like the
Jeremy: I'm sorry.
Ben: Well, I feel like when it comes to feminism in the movie, like, I feel like there's kind of two forces working against the women, or in opposition to the women. I feel like there's Daryl, which the movie handles and explores and has so much fun with. But I don't feel like the movie does as much with what it sets up in terms of, like, the women versus the town.
Ben: just, the regular culture of this. This town has clearly done so much to make, to minimize these women or make them feel like they need to make themselves smaller, and I, and you know, look, and not that the movie necessarily needs to do so, it doesn't need to be this morality tale, but we do not get this moment of like, [00:55:00] no, this, the people of this town are wrong, like, it is harmful, and these women are right for standing up and Embracing, like, them Embracing who they truly are, and this atypical fam blended family dynamic they've found.
Ben: Like, by far, the most heartwarming moment of the movie is, I forget if it's Cher or Michelle Pfeiffer who tells Susan Sarandon, like, But you don't have a family, which was bitchy as hell, I did not like that, but Susan Sarandon, without missing a beat, just whips around and so tenderly goes, You're my family.
Emily: Yeah. It's about family.
Rachael: the friends we make along the way, I guess, that become
Ben: like So, like, I know, again, it doesn't, they're like, God, like, Sarandon with that, you're my family line, like, that really gets me. And, again, it's mostly because, hey, it's Susan Sarandon, she's fucking amazing, but I do give this credit, like, [00:56:00] movie a lot of credit for being, like, yeah, three women living together, all helping each other raise their kids with their fucking Adams family henchmen, like,
Emily: And they won. Like,
Ben: yeah, they win. as much as The feminine of this movie is absolutely man writing women. Wouldn't it be great if you were hot and sexually liberated around me? I give this movie a lot of credit for ending with, like, they have cut the man out, like, they have cut the man out completely, and now they have formed, like, a atypical matriarchal family structure that is truly what's best for them, and this is the happy ending.
Rachael: And the great debate is, is the sex still happening just with the women only? You know, like, are they like,
Ben: I, I hope so, I wish I could say yes, and the movie gives me reason to believe so, but the movie honestly gives me nothing in terms of queerness.
Emily: yeah, yeah, because they're all talking about how they miss him. Like, if they were, if it was a little [00:57:00] bit more clear that they were all fulfilled, you know, with each other, if, like, one of them was sitting in another one's lap or something like that, I would have been like, yeah,
Ben: that would've been just Mwah.
Emily: Or if they were holding hands, even, you know, if Lurch was like, I declare you best friends, like, even there, I would have been like, Okay, movie.
Emily: All right. But, I mean, even though we didn't get that, and it's, it's damn shame, I do think that the movie is remarkably nonjudgmental about them rejecting the, you know, template that they're sort of trying to, that their town is trying to force them into, right? I do think Walter should have been exploded or something.
Jeremy: Oh yeah.
Emily: Like, he, he, of all of
Jeremy: off easy in this movie. Nothing, nothing happens to that guy. I feel like tradition dictates that that man should suffer in a horror movie. Like, know, I know this is sort comedy more than a horror movie, but
Ben: I [00:58:00] still We We can have comedic suffering!
Emily: Yes, we can, we do.
Ben: Lots of movie suffering is comedic.
Jeremy: Cartwright really, like, gets the comedic suffering, he does not.
Emily: yeah, and, and she, like, her, her situation is interesting to me because she, a lot of this movie seems to be about putting, investing the power in something, right? Like, how I see the Daryl character is that they summoned this dude and it was like an imp, right? It was like a lesser demon. And they invested all this power in it.
Emily: And that's what gave him that power. And so he used it back on them. So they were on the cycle and it's sort of like the way that paranoia gives power to our fears, right? When it is essentially the most exaggerated version of self preservation. [00:59:00] And so, the Felicia character was cursed. And I think that her curse was, part of it was giving him power
Emily: because she was, she was terrified of him and then that gave him the power to, make her essentially go insane.
Emily: and obviously this wasn't something, this wasn't a grand scheme. This wasn't a grand plan. Like, she didn't do anything that other than look like an idiot in church, you know. Which like, also you could say some things about her condition and, you know, people dismissing it as, like, the, the,
Ben: The church. I wish we had gotten that. Yeah, that's the scene I wish we had gotten, is the three of them just walking in the church in sexy new, like, 80s outfits, just being like, We're gay witches, and what up? And they just sit right in the front pew and be like, And what about it?
Emily: yeah,
Ben: Lightning strike to you, nosy bitch.
Emily: yeah, or lightning strike to [01:00:00] Walter, and then the priest is like, oh,
Jeremy: I think ultimately, the end of this movie is, like, dictated by the fact that it's 1987. Like, 1987, and this is a large studio producing this, who, like, there's all sorts of like weird stories about the, you know, various producers interfering with the production of this movie, like the fact that at some point they, like, John Peters wanted there to be a fuckin alien in this movie, cause aliens had just gotten really big, so it was like trying to push Uh, them to put an alien in a scene of a movie and George Miller was like, no, I'm not doing it, and they were like, then we're gonna find a different director, and Jack Nicholson was like, the fuck you are, I'm leaving if you do that.
Rachael: bless Shaq Nicholson.
Emily: yeah,
Ben: Jack Nicholson fun Jack Nicholson fact he is a big Yankee fan and threatened to quit the departed if they ever tried to make him wear a Red Sox hat.[01:01:00]
Jeremy: Jack Nicholson strikes me as a guy who like, he has a look and plays characters that are like, real scummy, but he seems like a solid dude. Like, I don't,
Ben: I this is where we get to the part of the podcast where I tell my personal Jack Nicholson story,
Jeremy: oh.
Emily: Ish, dish.
Ben: oh, Jack Nicholson comes out looking very cool in this story, don't worry,
Emily: Okay, no, still
Ben: it was at Yankee Stadium, because of course it was, and if you've been to the new Yankee Stadium, it is needlessly frou frou bourgeoisie, uh,
Ben: bougie
Emily: I believe you. Yeah.
Ben: a whole fancy restaurant park, Me and my dad, we're at the fancy restaurant part, because we're bougie as fucking etiquette people.
Ben: And there was a buffet, and Jack Nicholson was there, so I tried to get, you know, I didn't want to bother him, but I wanted to be like, maybe I can overhear him. Like, what's Jack Nicholson talking about?
Emily: like, well, let me see if I can hear the, yeah. Aw,
Ben: the fucking Matron D comes up to Jack Nicholson, I overhear him go like, Mr.
Ben: Nicholson, so good to see you, like. If you could, we just don't [01:02:00] want to cause any kind of commotion or crowd at the buffet area, so if you could just stay in your seat here, you let us know what you'd like and we'll bring everything to you right away, but if you could just stay here and not go to the buffet, like, that'd be really appreciated.
Ben: Fuckin Nicholson glares daggers at the guy, doesn't say a word. Gets up, walks straight to the buffet, and starts introducing himself and shaking hands with everyone there.
Rachael: God bless. He just
Rachael: seems like he's just happy doing a fun job and he uses his powers for good and not evil except when he's the devil in this movie.
Ben: Yes. that that is my personal Jack story, that is, just him being fucking
Rachael: did you meet him?
Ben: and No, I didn't, I gotta say it, I'm like, I got my an I got my anecdote, I'm good, that's all I really wanted. You can't disappoint a story!
Emily: Right? well, I'm glad that Jack Nicholson, like, I haven't heard much [01:03:00] about Jack Nicholson in the wild, but I'm glad to know that story,
Ben: As far as I
Jeremy: haven't watched Wolf yet,
Ben: an all around, cool as fuck dude.
Emily: I was going to recommend Wolf. That movie's also pretty wild.
Jeremy: So, guess we, I mean, we've talked about pretty much everything that happened in the movie. I mean, do we want to tackle the questions of, of, I mean, we've talked a lot about the feminism or feminism of
Rachael: Feminine question mark?
Emily: I think I'm going to weigh in that this movie is Feminist, but like trying really hard, like,
Jeremy: like, I feel like that's the case with a lot of things in this movie. And I know if it's John Uptike or I don't know if it's the director or the screenwriter or what, but the fact that like, Okay, there's a point where they say, Jack Nicholson is talking about women, and he's like, Uh, a woman is a hole that people pour sorrows into, [01:04:00] or whatever, and that's what they say, isn't it?
Jeremy: And I was like, is that what they say? And like, I looked up the quote, and it's a Sartre quote? And I was like, oh, that's not what they say. That's what Jean Paul Sartre said. Like, that's not, that's the level which this movie is like, uh huh, like
Emily: Yeah. Yeah. I mean,
Jeremy: a movie about witches having sex with the devil if also we include a lot of highbrow quotes then it'll be art, so, I don't know.
Emily: I, I kind of liked that, but that's, 'cause I've, you know, I've, I think it's funny when people monologue, but like I did like kind of how up his own ass, but also, self aware up his own ass, but also still desperate he was. I don't know, there's like a complexity there that I think is remarkable for a film, like, for a supernatural comedy film, at least, you know, where he is basically, like, aping try hard feminism in order to get these women.
Emily: And that's kind [01:05:00] of the point. You know, and so whether or not it's on purpose, it does come off as dudes will, we'll do all this shit instead of go to therapy, right? Like, it's,
Rachael: At least he lays it up on, on the line and you can, you can make, they make a decision from there, I guess. So it's like, like my read is it, It's good, like, you know, feminism, I guess, kind of, but also, I think the script probably could have benefited from a pass from another woman before they just shot it.
Emily: yeah, absolutely.
Rachael: you know, cause I think the points that I made earlier probably would have been pepped up about, like, what about the chill? Like, they can just go fuck off, like, literally, and not really have a lot of consequences except more babies? Like, I think it's fair for its day, kind of, but it have used some more
Jeremy: big room full of balloons.
Rachael: Oh, okay, that solves everything.
Emily: Oh, yeah, well, and that's another thing is, I think, as part of their, like, this comeuppance is that their preoccupation [01:06:00] with fucking this new dude and, like, you know, just trying to fulfill themselves is, you know, they kind of got, they lost sight of. Certain priorities, and it doesn't talk about the kids, but I like the fact that it doesn't talk about the kids because then it's not so much of a moral
Rachael: Yeah,
Emily: dilemma about you know, shaming them for not being, for trying to be sexual when they should be mothers, you know, or whatever.
Emily: But,
Ben: that's an element of the movie. It's not like the movie goes like, Oh, you've been neglecting your kids by spending all this time. Like, like, hell, they're showing love in it. They're partying with Daryl. They're hanging out in the mansion. They got new toys. They're swimming in the pools with their moms, like.
Ben: But yeah, like, they're kind of a non entity. Like, they're there, they're just, they're not there to actually be characters. They're just there to inform the
Rachael: They're the backstory, you
Ben: they're just there to be, yeah,
Ben: to let know where, like, they're all in there and where each of them are at in life.
Emily: it's strangely [01:07:00] progressive, I think, to have that be, like, to have the kids be a non entity in this story about the women, because have a lot of stories. With about single mothers and it's like, Oh, I got to do these things for my kids. You know, I have this, I have it rough, but it's all worth it because of my kids.
Emily: And, you know, then they're just defined by their kids or
Ben: It's kind of refreshing seeing some moms that don't really give a fuck kids and
Rachael: At least they're being honest, right?
Emily: or
Ben: like, honestly, again, single moms we see a lot of single moms in movies on this show. It's of refreshing to have a who are like, look, I'm still into living my best life.
Jeremy: I feel it's interesting to me the, also the difference between single mother Cher and single mother Michelle Fiverr, which like, single mother Cher is like, yeah, my kid's fucking raised, like, she's 17 or whatever she is, like, she doesn't listen to me anyway, she's got head on her shoulders, like, she'll be fine, and And Michelle Pfeiffer is like, look, I have had a [01:08:00] basketball team full of kids to take care of myself.
Jeremy: None of them have names. They're all just very blonde and they follow along behind me wherever I go. Um,
Rachael: there's a lot of them.
Emily: Yeah. Yeah. Um,
Jeremy: Um,
Rachael: six. Plus the one at the end.
Emily: Yeah. So she has seven kids for herself. Cher has two, and Susan Sarandon has one, so there's ten kids between them. Although, I think at the end of one of the final scenes, you see Cher's kid, like, teaching the other kids how to dance or whatever.
Jeremy: Michelle Pfeiffer's baby at the end of this movie is fucking buff as hell. I don't know what the deal is with that small blonde child, but like, it looks like a
Emily: the hemorrhaging she did.
Rachael: All hemorrhaging.
Emily: Yeah, it wasn't because of Jack Nicholson, it was because the baby was flexing.
Jeremy: Doing fucking
Rachael: Doing little squats in there, like, you know?
Jeremy: Yeah, the are like bouncing up and down in their bouncy chairs. He's just like [01:09:00] squatting the chair.
Emily: yeah, yeah, he's like, pressing the bench.
Ben: Again, I'm so glad that, like, they haven't tried to get, like, Pfeiffer, Cher, and Sarandon back for, like, We're doing the Warlocks of Westwick when your kids are grown up and now they're 18 and it's that one fucking, like, Sebastian Stan movie we covered a while, but yeah, now
Emily: gonna say, like, oh, it's the Covenant now.
Ben: Like, I feel
Emily: were the Covenant.
Ben: like, what, I feel like it would have been so easy for whoever owns this to be like, Where we got the stars, except Nicholson, obviously, back, like, and it's gonna be a streaming service show, and it's gonna be cancelled after one season, and then fuckin written off as a tax write off hell like three months later.
Rachael: There's actually, um, I checked my notes, there's actually a sequel book. Where, don't know the plot, but, you know, I
Jeremy: called the Widows of Eastwick,
Rachael: Yeah, yeah, that I think touches
Jeremy: just came out like years [01:10:00] ago, I think. 2013 or 2017. Don't know if they recently died, just in the last couple years, but I think, I hope I'm not incorrect about that, but I seem to remember that happening. Let me double check that before we put that in the podcast.
Rachael: Yeah, I was gonna also, there's a 2000 stage musical, and then there's a television show inspired by it called Eastwick, which I think we already alluded to,
Jeremy: Yeah, which Veronica Cartwright appears in, but, nobody else from the, movie does. Uh, yes, John F. Dyke died in 2009, at the age 76. that was longer ago than I thought. Oh god, what is time.
Emily: I mean, compared to when the movie came out, yeah, he just died.
Jeremy: yeah, Eastwick ran in 2009, 2010. Yeah, a mysterious man bestows powers on three women. So, yeah, it just looks like a remake. As a, as a TV show that only, it seems, got seven episodes, so.
Ben: Yeah, they did not even finish [01:11:00] out the first season.
Rachael: Yeah, I mean it's, I think they were trying to do something with the themes that might've been dated and it just didn't really go anywhere.
Ben: I understand why they would have thought it worked, like, Charmed was a successful show, Cougartown was a successful show, Charmed meets Cougartown should have worked,
Rachael: Like, how about you and how you, how you amalgamate them, cause, like, it's not wrong either.
Ben: right? Like, I can see how, like, Magical Milfs last six seasons on ABC.
Rachael: Magical Mills. Cause it didn't have that name, that's why.
Ben: Oh, call Milfs, you're going six seasons in a movie, baby.
Jeremy: David Zaslav will buy that without a script.
Emily: Magical Independent Ladies for Fun. That's what you do. You make it
Rachael: For fun and profit, apparently.
Emily: MILFs.[01:12:00] Oh, man.
Jeremy: uh, I'm looking at this Eastwick. It had Rebecca Romijn in it.
Emily: Wait, hold up. Wait
Ben: feel like part of the problem is just calling it Eastwick, and not, you know, witches part. That's like when they, that's like when they renamed John Carter and the Princess of Mars to just John Carter, then they were surprised when it bombed.
Rachael: I think
Rachael: their marketing MOA for that one, or that one.
Emily: Jerry O'Connell.
Jeremy: The fucking Punisher was in this, but he wasn't playing the devil. Little John
Ben: Or the Punisher.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: Barenthal is Raymond Gardner and Paul Gross is Daryl Horn.
Ben: now that is a real, like, before they were famous.
Emily: All gross.
Jeremy: Yeah, he's not in anything else. Like, he's in a ton of other stuff, just nothing I have ever seen in my
Ben: John Bernthal. Now I just really want to see John Bernthal play the devil.
Jeremy: I,
Ben: such a good devil.
Jeremy: he would. Keep that, that Southern accent got, [01:13:00] man. Uh, yeah, there's nothing to discuss about race in this movie because there are no races. It's all white people. Uh, the
Ben: the white, it's,
Jeremy: the are blonde, redheaded, and, uh, brunette. Um,
Emily: Also, well, he does, he does make some racisms.
Jeremy: Oh, yeah. Oh,
Emily: There are some racisms, for sure, about dry cleaning. Also,
Jeremy: mm. Absolutely.
Emily: Fidel, the, the,
Ben: oh yeah,
Rachael: see
Jeremy: want to talk about Fidel's huge schlong, Emily? Is that what you wanted to
Emily: no,
Jeremy: address? Because they do tell us, well, he does tell us, Van Horn specifically tells us that Fidel has a huge schlong. Um,
Ben: believe
Jeremy: I don't know why that's information that we need to know at that point. Um,
Rachael: the ending, There's implications that he's there to vibe, I guess? I don't know.
Emily: I mean, I don't, I, some of them don't like it when
Ben: He seems, yeah, he seems, he seems there for, in a child [01:14:00] care capacity.
Emily: he can have any
Ben: And maybe that was Zach Nicholson's way of being like, Fidel, I know you share, cause, witch is psychic. Fidel over Too big. Me? Me and my Schrodinger dick? Just right.
Rachael: Jack Nicholson fuck Fidel? Is that how he knew that?
Ben: Zach Nicholson absolutely fucked Fidel.
Emily: He also
Ben: percent. Dead?
Emily: push ups is a cure for, for women, so I'm like,
Rachael: Poor Jeremy, I think we broke him.
Emily: gay devils. This is,
Jeremy: He's looking for a cure for women. He does say that bit. it did sound to me like Ben said that Jack Nicholson had a Schroeder dick, which is different than a Schrodinger dick. I don't
Emily: He did have a lot of pianos, though.
Jeremy: He does have a lot of pianos.
Emily: He had a lot of pianos. I really don't want to
Jeremy: Schroeder dick.
Jeremy: I don't know. That is how he gets the He'd
Emily: Nick. I mean, he's probably, I mean, he's old enough now, I, Schroeder, how old would Schroeder be now?
Jeremy: [01:15:00] be very old.
Emily: I don't think he would be, like, that old. But I think he would be pretty much beyond functionality. Oh, don't! Oh, no!
Jeremy: I think he's the old man in
Ben: before he was gonna play, Right before he was gonna play at the garden.
Jeremy: Okay, so there is some class
Ben: got a residency. Schroeder's just Billy Joel.
Emily: Yeah, there you go.
Ben: Schroeder is however old Billy Joel is.
Emily: Oh,
Jeremy: I, I give up. Uh, do you guys recommend movie? Do you think people should, should
Ben: yes, this movie's a delight.
Emily: Yeah, oh, um, real quick. Class. It's there. Um, sort of. But LGBTQIA? I mean, yeah, they're a polycule, but
Ben: I wish, I wish this was a gayer than a 1987 mainstream movie would be.
Rachael: Yeah, I would say just know what you're getting into and maybe have friends and have drinks or other Subsistence to kind of have fun with Jack Nicholson and his [01:16:00] over large ham that is this movie because that's best part I think objectively
Emily: Yes.
Rachael: You know like the characters are kind of like, you know, they're fun I think Cher is probably the funnest character you know, but that could that's always subjective They're kind of they're also they're all fun in their own like You know, way, but he's objectively the funnest one because that was like, you know, my son on it's just like, oh, Jack Nixon as the devil, that sounds like a good time.
Rachael: And I wasn't disappointed. So, you know, but I think going in blind was a probably a mistake on my end. Because I was like, what is this movie?
Emily: Um,
Jeremy: I recommended this one to you because you were like, What are you guys doing that's not particularly scary? And I was like, oh, Witches of Eastwick isn't scary. Like,
Rachael: Yeah, I mean, you weren't wrong. It's kind of like Rosemary's Baby, but kind of a comedy that is subjective comedy. So I don't know if you guys know Rosemary's Baby, but it's kind of a similar.
Jeremy: you're not saying that Rosemary's Baby is Funny. Are
Emily: comedy?
Rachael: No, this is, [01:17:00] this is more comedy.
Emily: I know, I I
Rachael: like, if they
Rachael: took Rosemary's
Ben: is objectively Rosemary's Baby is OBJECTIVELY a comedy.
Emily: I don't know.
Jeremy: I would say, I would go as far as to say there is nothing funny about Rosemary's baby, including who made it.
Emily: Yeah.
Rachael: I mean, that's just kind of like a similar theme, but like, taken two artistically different directions
Jeremy: yeah, Yeah.
Emily: totally right. You're totally right about like, it is that whole idea of like, you know, here's the evil baby and the woman and the family. And then, you know, they're, she has to figure out like, am I going to be the mother of the antichrist or whatever?
Jeremy: There's surprisingly little concern about that in this
Emily: yeah.
Jeremy: Nobody like, I'm worried that this baby that I had with the devil is evil. They're just like, mm, it'll be fine.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: nurture, not nature.
Emily: Bless them. Bless them. be.
Rachael: Yeah, I was
Rachael: Oh, go ahead.
Rachael: I was gonna say, oh yeah cause Rosemary's Baby was a Polanski movie, I forgot [01:18:00] about that, right?
Jeremy: Yeah. That's, that's the only reason we haven't actually talked about that movie yet is I don't really talk about Roman Polanski or his
Jeremy: films.
Rachael: that's valid. Anyway, back to the fun movie.
Jeremy: Yeah, um, well, with that said, I think, like, I definitely recommend checking it out. It is much, like, on the, horror movies, in a lot of cases, seem to fall somewhere in different areas based on their, like, scariness and horniness, and a lot of times those, like, go together in a horror movie. This one is much less scary and much more horny.
Jeremy: You know, so
Ben: Oh yeah.
Emily: This movie is kind of like if The Witches and Beetlejuice kind of connected.
Jeremy: it's those movies, I think, that's, like, It's like reading 1980s Chris Claremont X Men. It's much more fun if you're imagining that they're fucking between scenes, like, because, you know, it's, see, everybody seems like they're vibing and they're together and they've got things, but they're not [01:19:00] allowed to be in relationships with people of the same sex.
Jeremy: But, like, it's, everything about it seems explicit except for that part. And in this movie, it's the same sort of way as, like, they are, like, together, right? Like, no? Alright, I guess, I guess you can't say it. You can't write it, but it seems right.
Emily: yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah, so, I don't, I don't know. It will inspire you to write fanfiction, I think, about the movie you've just finished watching.
Jeremy: Even if it's just in your own mind. With that said, uh, let's do some recommendations. Emily, do you have anything to recommend this week?
Emily: Well, I, I mentioned Wolf, which is another just Jack Nicholson being whack movie, and it has James Spader being sleazy, which is like my two, like is another one of my vices. Like, ew.
Rachael: I mean, this is the pod This is the episode to talk about that kind of stuff.
Ben: Yeah. The, the, let, just, let just be unashamed.[01:20:00]
Emily: yeah, like, shitty James Spader is kind of like,
Ben: Look, James Spader Pete Davidson before Beat Davidson was a thing.
Emily: Yeah, well, like, little baby, little, like, you know, 80s James Spader. Even, like, sexualized and videotaped James Spader. I don't know. He's such a fucking s
Ben: Even age of James Spader,
Emily: I mean, I guess, but he's, I don't know, I'm not as into it when it's not like him with the glasses, and he's like, Oh, I'm just, I'm just so better than you.
Jeremy: Just
Emily: I'm just
Jeremy: fan of the Blacklist,
Ben: really need, like, uh, what is it? A Stargate James Spader.
Emily: Stargate, you know,
Jeremy: Oh, I feel thesis coming on here.
Emily: I'm so sorry,
Jeremy: Stargate James Fader, Colin.
Emily: colon. The only one that is marriable. All of the other ones are, you know, conquests to, like, regale to your, your grandchildren back when they're teenagers and you're like, ah, fuck James [01:21:00] Spader. Um,
Jeremy: Yeah, another one, another
Ben: do you talking about with your grandparents?
Emily: uh, they're all dead. Uh,
Jeremy: in particular, is one of those movies that, like, It's, it's, It puts Jack Nicholson in the 80s, 90s, like, place that we have Donald Sutherland and Don't Look Now, that you're like, guys really wanted to fuck Donald Sutherland, huh? Like, Jack Nicholson, it's like, looking back to the 80s and 90s, it's like, this, both, both him and Susan Sarandon, I think, are people that, like, they just had people's sexual imagination wrapped around their fingers somehow, like, that Susan Sarandon is like, The sexual one in this movie with Cher and Michelle Pfeiffer is
Emily: Yeah. though starts out like the Demure one, uh, one of them, but the other movie I wanted to recommend a movie. If you like Jack Nicholson, you want to see really, really young baby Jack Nicholson going nuts. Yeah. There's this classic horror [01:22:00] movie that has, like, all star cast. It's got Bela Lugosi, I think, maybe, even, and, like, definitely Peter Lorre and Vincent Price.
Emily: It's called The Raven, and it is 100 percent camp, and Jack Nicholson has a bit part where he's, like, possessed, and he's, like, a coach driver or something. It's so campy and so wonderful. It's, like, like, cartoon, like, Edward Gorey shit. Like, it's so good. And, you know, it's probably problematic. I haven't seen it in ages.
Emily: I just remember it was just really funny and fun and there was a bird. And Vincent Price was in it, and so that's, like, big points. so, and that movie's from like the 60s or something, so, but yeah, Baby Jack Nicholson, it's pretty fun.
Jeremy: yeah, he's also one of his first roles in anything was just like a bit part in the original Little Shop of Horrors film too, so like, he's got a lot of like little bit
Emily: Oh, like the old one.
Jeremy: Yeah,
Emily: Ah, that's right.
Jeremy: yeah, the 1960 [01:23:00] Little Shop of Horrors.
Rachael: The, the one that's domain now, right? Oh
Jeremy: Yep. Let's see, uh, Ben, what did you have to recommend?
Ben: I have another movie that is campy and spooky comedy and full of very big stars and a movie that I'm sure we will one day cover on this podcast, and that is Death Becomes Her.
Emily: Oh yeah, I was going to talk about that one, but I for both, but yeah, Death Becomes Hers.
Jeremy: Watching this movie, at one point I was like, we have to talk about Death Becomes Her at some
Ben: Yes, yes. Fucking Meryl Streep and Goldie Hawn. Abso goddamn lutely we have to talk about Death Becomes Her.
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: let's see, Rachael, did you have anything you wanted to
Rachael: yeah, yeah, yeah, that was the other homework I had. So, um, I'm gonna recommend a book because I've gotten back into reading because it's a good thing when I'm, uh, triggered as a way to distract my brain. So I'm reading the Hunger Games prequel in preparation for the movie that's gonna come out, like, in two weeks?
Rachael: And it's a, good time, it's a good [01:24:00] I think it's interesting because it finds a way to, it focuses on the dictator dude before he becomes the dictator, but he's like the president. Um, it's an
Ben: So it's a if if it's the prequel, it's if it's the prequel, it's the, uh, Actually Pretty Full Games.
Rachael: Yeah, actually, pretty funny.
Ben: That joke was terrible. Alicia, please cut that. Cut that.
Emily: no, no, Alicia, no, Alicia, I'll If that,
Ben: Cut Cut
Emily: cut it.
Jeremy: It's the I Could Eat games.
Rachael: it up was worth just that, but, um, it's, so Cornelius Snow, however you pronounce his fancy version of Cornelius, but it focuses on him as a young adult, like 17, 18 year old. And it's an interesting way, because it's like, you know, it's a way to get in the mind of someone who's objectively a bad person, but how their elitism and, you know, uh, War has kind of made them that way, so it's, I thought it's, it's an interesting character study, and it's an interesting way, it's an interesting [01:25:00] perspective of the world around him, but it's still like, I think from what I remember when the book was announced that people were like, why are they talking, why is she gonna do this guy?
Rachael: And then like, once you read the book, you're like, oh, that, that makes sense, that's actually a good book, but I really like The Hunger Games, and I kind of forgot they existed, and when the movie was gonna come out, I was just like, Yeah, I'll read the book because I read the other books before I saw the movies, so, yeah Hungry Games, woo.
Rachael: The Hunggy Games. Are they actually pretty full games?
Emily: Yes,
Jeremy: What is the, what's the name of that book?
Rachael: Oh, sorry, yeah, that's important. It's called, uh, The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes, so I think the movie's gonna be out mid November. And the book's been out for a couple of years, obviously. Like, five years or something, so.
Jeremy: Yeah, speaking of wanting to fuck Donald Sutherland, sorry. Um, yeah, Donald Sutherland is, yeah, he's the President Snow in the original, uh, Hunger Games movies. So I don't know, I don't know if he's, I mean, I would be surprised if he didn't at least. Cameo, [01:26:00] bookend, something
Rachael: yeah, that would be my read, is they have kind of a cut to the future of, like, you know, something, just so they could use him. Because they're using his, um, some of his lines from the original trilogy for the trailers to recontextualize them. So I think that's what they're hinting at and he's Donald Sutherland seems like down to do whatever, so I wouldn't be too surprised.
Jeremy: Yeah, all right, what I'm going to recommend is, of course, I am in the middle of my usual October scary movie month, watching a lot of not all good scary movies but Lots of scary movies. And this last week I watched a movie that's one of the best reviewed horror movies of 2023. Um, it's called Hussera the Bone Woman.
Jeremy: It is a Mexican horror movie. It is on Shudder right now. It rocks. Um,
Emily: It's on my list.
Jeremy: it's very scary. It has a lot of DNA in common with the Babadook [01:27:00] in that it is a movie about a woman who is pregnant and starts seeing a, uh, creepy woman with breaking, cracking bones that keeps following her around and doing shit that may or may not be related to the fact that she is Maybe not that into being pregnant and having a baby and she's just kind of realizing that she started doing all these things for other people and, um, that she sort of trapped herself into this thing.
Jeremy: Which is valid and difficult fear.
Rachael: Oh yeah, that's the very alien vibes,
Jeremy: yeah it's a lot of like, you know, this, this thing is sort of creeping around doing things and people don't believe her and she has a real chip of a husband to sort of help out with all this. He, he really sucks. And I, one of the like fun, fun things about this movie is, is like, It really has this, like, subplot as it's going on of [01:28:00] her, like, going back and remembering that she used to, like, have this really cool girlfriend and used to have this like very punk life that she left behind because you know her brother died and she wanted to like take care of her family and you know provide her parents with all the things that they wanted and uh that that's sort of how she ended up here and you know she ends up like going back out and searching out this ex girlfriend who is like the only person who gives a shit enough about her to like actually listen to what's going on in this story, which is like, it's the rare, like, you know, bisexual lead who's like, actually my ex girlfriend was really great and my husband that I'm married to kind of sucks.
Jeremy: Like, cause it's so, so often I feel like those movies go the other direction. So yeah, really good movie. It's on Shudder. I think it's all of like 90 minutes. It's [01:29:00] pretty. Quick one and very good and genuinely spooky as well. So yeah, totally worth a look. That is, uh, it for us. Rachael, Could you let people know where they can find you online and find out more about what you're up to?
Rachael: okay, cool, I I can do that, um, so in hello, in case you don't know me, um, my I'm a YouTuber, so my YouTube name is ILoveKimPossibleAlot, um, you can't see the little zooming call, but I go by KP in that regard, and I'm kind of Slowly having my professional stuff not overshadow it but like just kind of be out there because like people didn't know my name is Rachael for like A very long time, a concerning amount of long time.
Rachael: I'm sure Jeremy was just like, oh yeah, it's just KP, and I'm just like, I'm not, that's not my legal name, Jeremy, but, you know. So that's, uh, my main thing, uh, we got a couple fun stuff coming up, but, uh, we've been on hiatus for a couple months just cause we're a little low staff, but that's, uh, Being taken care of, essentially.
Rachael: And then I have my own podcast, which is [01:30:00] easier to produce because audio is easier to edit than video on top of audio. So that's called Animation Communication with a K. I think we're on episode, like We're gonna be on episode 90 soon, so I've been doing it for two years, and it's like a subset. Uh, and then, yeah, and then we have my Discord fan server, where we host games and movies and shit for free, so if you like free things, then you can vibe in there, and that's all my general plugs.
Rachael: I have a Twitter, I guess, but that's how Jormie and I talk, but, pretty active on there.
Ben: Have a Twitter, I guess. Yeah, that's kind of where I'm
Emily: That's where I am at as well. I'm here for you. Whoever's
Jeremy: all still checking on sinking ship occasionally. Um,
Rachael: Uh, yeah, I mean, it's so much hassle to move at this point, so we're just gonna see, we're just gonna see, you know, and have some backups planned, and kind of be down for the ride.
Ben: I'm still holding out. Hope the banks take the back the site.
Emily: please.
Jeremy: yeah, at least You know, everybody knows where the swamp is that the castle sank [01:31:00] into, so sometimes it's still easier to meet there, like, you know, rather than this different place.
Ben: We all the landmarks
Rachael: X marks the spot, do do
Emily: Uh, uh, yeah,
Jeremy: Oh god. Oh god. That's horrible. Um,
Rachael: they were talking about maps, it was pretty easy. It
Jeremy: was, uh, it was good, actually, but it's horrible that it applies so accurately. Um, X marks the spot where something fucking used to be. But there used to be treasure. I mean, it buried, but it was there, you know?
Emily: yeah. Much like the island, the Junk Island on the Pacific.
Jeremy: yeah, Trash Island in the Pacific, yes, absolutely. sorry, Emily, do you want to let people know where they can find you and what you're up to?
Emily: Megamoth. net, it's basically a card or link tree or whatever, it has all of my stuff on there. Megamoth, as in a very big [01:32:00] moth, m e g a m o t h dot net and I'm on the blue sky, I'm on,
Rachael: we've already moved out.
Emily: yeah, I'm on, I'm on Twitter as well, but if I'm on blue sky, and then
Jeremy: got to roll toilet paper on Twitter, you know, just
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: you stop over there occasionally. The water's on.
Emily: yeah, the water's still on the, I mean, we're on, I'm on Solar over there.
Emily: Anyway uh, I'm off the grid. But I'm also on Instagram at Mega underscore Moth, Patreon Mega Moth. And of course we have our Prog Horror Pod on Twitter. And come find us on Letterboxd. We, many of us have Letterboxd. So, um, I think I have Mega Moth on Letterboxd.
Jeremy: I think you are too.
Emily: Yeah, Mega Moth on Letterboxd.
Emily: Jeremy, you're on letterbox. Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah, we house our list that we'll be updating next week,
Emily: Is
Jeremy: all of our rankings.
Ben: Can't wait to see what arguments [01:33:00] we have this time.
Emily: me
Jeremy: Exciting. Uh, Ben, what about you? Where can you? What are you up to?
Ben: find me you know, on Twitter, I'm at Ben the Con and then everywhere else website, Instagram blue Sky. Find me at ben conn comics.
Emily: Yeah.
Emily: read that book.
Ben: Yeah, l Campbell wins their weekend. Uh, my pros debut is out in stores now and, uh, yeah, and make sure to check out, uh, captain Laser Hawk, the manga out from Tokyo Pop.
Emily: Yeah. Like
Jeremy: Yeah. And, uh, of course you can find me on Twitter and Instagram at JRome58, on Blue Sky and Tumblr, Jeremy Whitley. You can find me on my website, which is newly renovated to where it actually looks like a working person's website at, uh, jeremywhitley. com. You can, it is December now, but you can find the newly released Volume 2 of School for Extraterrestrial Girls by me and Jamie Noguchi [01:34:00] just came out in November.
Jeremy: Makes a great Christmas present if you're shopping at the last moment for one of those things or just a present for just like whatever reason if you don't like Christmas some people don't it's cool. Um,
Rachael: Christmas.
Jeremy: Yeah
Emily: or ul have give, give us a UL
Ben: Or maybe for Hanukkah!
Rachael: gonna say, I'm actually Jewish, but Christmas is my favorite ho holiday, cause I'm ironic like that.
Ben: Yay, being Jewish. High five. Go us.
Rachael: Go us.
Ben: Woo! And then high fives for you too, Jeremy and Emily, just cause
Emily: Thank you. I was like,
Ben: Everyone gets a five!
Emily: I, I hear the word high five and I was like, oh
Ben: You get a high five!
Rachael: you guys to the Hanukkah party too, don't worry.
Emily: Hell yeah. Hell yeah. I just watched attachment.
Jeremy: Oh,
Ben: you go.
Jeremy: that's good. It's a good movie.
Emily: Yeah, I want to talk about it. Anyway,
Jeremy: Yeah, we should talk about attachment. Um,
Ben: yes.
Jeremy: did you watch Attachment 2, Ben?
Ben: I haven't. But I'm sure it's good.
Emily: it is
Jeremy: Jewish. It's gay.
Ben: You had me [01:35:00] at Jewish and gay.
Emily: Yeah, yeah um,
Jeremy: possibly an overprotective
Ben: If it gets any more Jewish and gay, you're gonna tell me Abby Jacobson's in it.
Jeremy: see, it involves a mom who is maybe not very communicative, but very overprotective. So,
Emily: which
Emily: is the I want to talk about. Yeah, yeah. they make fun of the goyim.
Ben: Oh well, you know I'm always here for that.
Jeremy: You, uh,
Jeremy: the podcast itself, you can find us on Patreon at Progressively Horrified, you can find us at progressivelyhorrified. transistor. fm, for our websites where you can get show notes and all that stuff, you can find us on Twitter at ProgHorrorPod, uh, until it finishes burning down, and then hopefully you'll find us other places. You can rate and review us wherever you're listening to this, and we would love it if you would do so. Helps other people to find us, which helps us make more stuff, which, uh, we then give to you. So, you're really helping yourself when you do that. Thanks again so much to Rachael for joining us.
Jeremy: It was great having you, uh, [01:36:00] fun to, uh, talk about a movie that obviously you very uncomfortable.
Rachael: obvious?
Emily: for that. Hey, at least it wasn't Titan.
Rachael: No, I, I got a film degree, so I'm always down to even deconstruct those and talk about that, even if it's just something that I'm not personally vibing with, because I'm not the only person in the world that's seen this movie. So, I appreciate the invite Jeremy, I appreciate you guys for dealing with my bad jokes, and, um, yeah, I had a fun time, so can't really complain.
Jeremy: They match our bad jokes, so.
Ben: Yes, I mean, that's, uh, that's kind of the name of the game.
Rachael: happy
Jeremy: bad jokes.
Rachael: again if you, if you want to talk about more Jewish
Ben: Bad, bad jokes and political commentary. our bag.
Jeremy: yeah
Emily: one else's though.
Rachael: Hey talking to rad people always just fun. So,
Jeremy: thank you as always to all of you for listening and until next time stay horrified.