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The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.
Without fail, the best parts of
a conversation happens before I
press record or after I press stop.
Kyle and I covered a lot
of ground in this one.
Some of it didn't make
it into the episode.
We got to talking about rapid target
acquisition with a pistol, and to
that end, my friend Trevor at Armament
Technology sent me an SAI mini red dot.
ATI are the Canadians behind
Tangent Theta, which is as good
as glass gets, and they run the
SAI line of LPVOs and red dots.
That optic is getting shipped off to
Kyle, along with a few other things.
If you want in on the conversations
that happen outside of the recorded
podcast, that's The Outpost.
Every week, free and included
with Silvercore Club memberships,
and they're built to sharpen you.
We also talk about something
new that I've been building.
It's called The Outpost Arcade,
and it's at play.silvercore.ca.
It's absolutely free for anyone.
I like puzzles and simple games.
They help me reset and
learn at the same time.
This one runs through speed flashcards
on hunting, shooting, and outdoor
terminology, plus animal identification.
Silvercore Club members got early
access to The Outpost Arcade, and
any member who's played is entered
to win their own SAI red dot.
Now, without further ado, let's get to it.
Today's guest appeared on
Silvercore Podcast 124 and on
last year's year-end reflection.
Other notable achievements include a
couple of books and a stint in the Army.
That stint was 21 years,
15 of them in Delta Force.
He came home from Mogadishu with
a Silver Star, which he has not
once ever brought up with me.
Welcome back to the
Silvercore Podcast, Kyle Lamb.
Hey, thanks for having me, man.
I'm excited.
This is awesome.
So am I. I've been really
looking forward to this one.
You know, this last year-end reflection
that you just stepped right up to the
plate and said, "Yep, send me in. I'm good
to go," there is a number of people who
really shied away from that challenge,
and you knocked it out of the park,
and I really wanna thank you for that.
Well, good.
Yeah, for sure.
I, I just… I don't know.
You know, I, our first… Well,
the first time we talked, I just
hit it off with you, and there was
actually some really interesting
things that happened immediately
after the podcast I did with you.
Like- Really?
Like-
…
the same day.
What happened?
You remember one of the
conversations we had was what
if you had six months to live?
Mm-hmm.
So was that impactful to you?
Yes.
Well, that's super impactful to me,
and it's changed the way that I… It,
honestly, it just changed the way that
I go about my daily, daily life because
once, you know, and if people wanna know
the story, they can go back and they
can listen to that podcast about it.
But bottom line is my brother-in-law
was given six months to live, and I was
sitting here talking with my wife, and I
said, "Man, what would you do if you were
given six months to live?" And she goes,
"Well, I'm doing it right now." And I-
Mm-hmm
…
and I, as I told you, I wasn't.
So When we did our podcast, s- I,
I had had some medical issues, and
the d- the day that we finished
your podcast, I, I had to drive into
town to pick up a gun or something.
Like I was by myself in my truck, and
I'm driving back, and the doctor's
office calls me, and it's a nurse,
and she says, "Um, hey, Mr. Lamb, just
wanted to let you know, uh, after your
appointment when you came in on Sunday,
uh, we just wanna let you know you got
bladder cancer." And I'm like- What?
… "Bladder cancer?"
I mean, that's no joke.
No.
Well, and I'm gonna cut
to the chase real quick.
I don't have bladder cancer.
Good, good, good.
Thank
you.
But it, what it made me do, I had just
told you that I'm living as though
I've got six months left to live.
And when I got that news, it was kinda
crazy because it didn't… Man, it just
like it didn't, it, it, I was like…
Well, first thing I said, I I said,
"All right, Lord, you, yeah I opened
my big nou- mouth. I guess I get to
back it up right here, you know?" Um,
within, within a day, day and a half,
we had found out I was good to go.
I, I went in and-
Mm
…
gave another urine sample, and you
know, and I ended up having to go
and do some other doctor checkups,
but bottom line was I was good to go.
Well, then as soon as- Mm … I find
out I'm good to go, my wife gets, uh,
an accildent- accidental finding where
she's on a… Sorry, let me silence
my phone here just to make sure.
She gets this accidental finding
where they, they did a, a scan of her
neck area, and it went down farther,
and they said she had a lump on one
of her lungs, and I'm like, now- Mm
I will tell you this, that devastated me.
And-
Right
…
just like with me, within a week for her
she was able to get back in, and they
were able to do more tests, and they're
like, "Okay, it's small. It's translucent.
You're good to go, but you gotta come in
every six months and get a scan." And,
and she's been clean ever since then.
So anyway, that's what
happened after our last visit.
Man.
And it, man, it, but it, it, it just,
to me it kind of solidified it, it…
I guess what it did was it took me a
step further, where I said, if I only
had six months to live, what would I do?
What if your wife only
had six months to live?
That's a completely- That's-
different
conversation.
Oh, my goodness, dude.
It's, it's devastating.
Like, I, I was- Yeah … oh, my goodness.
I mean, myself, I'm, like, I, I hope
I'm a little value-added to my family,
but my wife is all the value added
to my family, my, to my grandkids,
my kids, everybody that's around her.
I mean, just awesome
gal. And anyway, so I…
That, that, uh, it's made me, it's,
it's, it's made both of us kinda
change the way we are, not just with
ourselves, but how we are together.
So-
How did that hit?
Like, when you first heard about yourself,
uh, like I, you know, I, I have a feeling
of how it would fit me, and I've had some
things where there's, you know, like,
some possible forward-looking issues.
Never bladder cancer.
I, I think I have a feeling
of how that would hit me.
How did that hit you when
it, uh, when you heard that?
Well, it, it, when I heard that, the
very first thing I thought of was you.
And I said, I just had this conversation,
and I thought of you and what I'd
said on your podcast, and then I
said, "All right, God, let me finish.
Let me, let me do this the way
that I've said I'm gonna do it."
Mm.
And then that was it.
I mean, it, it, it wasn't…
There was no crying or gnashing
of teeth or anything like that.
When I got home to my wife, I told
her, I said, "I just got this call.
Here's the deal." And she goes, she
said, "Okay, we're just gonna, we're
gonna, we're gonna work through this.
Let's get you scheduled so you can go
back in and, and get to the bottom of
this." And she was super solid, too.
Mm. When we thought she had cancer, it
was, we, neither one of us was real solid.
Mm. And I think that, um-
Man, it scared the crap out of me.
So anyway, I just wanted
to share that with you.
It, it, it was a, a growing experience.
Um- Yes … or maybe it's a th- I
don't wanna say thought-provoking,
because it wasn't thought-provoking.
It actually changed the way I look
at life with my wife, and I think
that's a positive thing if we can…
You know, what, what, what we don't
wanna have happen is your wife dies
and you, and then you've gotta,
then you start thinking about her.
It's like- Right … she's
alive right now.
Let's, let's think about her day to day
and, and be with her and, you know, and-
What a gift that is.
Yeah.
And, and it's a, a valuable gift.
It's the most important gift I've ever
been given other than, than my faith.
And it's, uh… Yeah.
So anyway, I wanted to bring that up.
What?
I didn't mean to sidetrack you on that.
No.
Hey, there- But it, it, it, I've thought
about you a bunch, because I've told
people that story a whole bunch and
I've said, "I was on, I was on this
podcast with this bro from Canada, and
we had this discussion, and then this
happened." And I was like, "Now you gotta
put your money where your mouth is."
And
You know, thank goodness it, that wasn't,
it didn't- Right … play out the way
that the, the nurse, and she should
have never called me and told me that
on the phone in the first place, but-
No … you know,
whatever.
No.
I mean, you think there's
a different way to do that.
Yeah.
But, you know, I, it, it's interesting
when you contemplate your own mortality.
It's one thing to think about it, and
we all know we're going there, and it's
another thing for it to, for that light
switch to click and everything to become
real, and ha- have that timeframe.
Yeah.
And then a completely other
thing when it's somebody you
care about and it's not you.
Because for me- Yeah … I
can compartmentalize that.
I've, um, I remember years ago, a fellow
came in, did some training with us,
and really nice guy, hit it off, and
he ended up, uh, with throat cancer.
He said, "Trav, can you help me out? I
want my son to come through and do some
training, and I want him to, like, go
skydiving and do…" Like, he- he's never
done the Army thing, and I wanna give him
the closest experience to that, 'cause
I don't think he's really cut, and I'm
not gonna be around here much longer.
Can you, can you help
with the firearms side?
"Because I guess he, he felt like
these different experiences would have
an indelible impression on his son.
And it was… He, he was a, um, a
very well-spoken individual who,
uh, worked for a, um, I think
it was a bank here downtown.
And anyways, when he passed, he, he left
me a, uh, a Glock and, um, and a video,
and this video was him talking about the
process of, of what he was going through.
And he says, "You know, there was
laughter in our household the day I
found out that I had throat cancer. There
was laughter and, I mean, yeah, we're,
there's solemn times and, and the rest,
but this isn't, this isn't the heavy
thing that, uh…" And he, he carried it
very well and he brought everyone along
with him, those who loved him, and they
were there in the, uh, in the video.
And I feel that's how I would
like to th- think I would respond.
Now, if it's my wife, on the other hand, I
haven't role-played that one in the head.
And I haven't… I mean, that's
a completely different situation.
Yeah, but I think that, you know,
what it changes is the time that
you have together is valuable, every
minute of time you have together.
And if it's, you know, the first thing
I do when I get up in the morning is
give my wife a kiss good morning, and
the last thing I do before I go to
bed is give her a kiss good night.
Mm.
You know, that's,
you know, that's just a small thing, but
it's not just, I'm not just doing that.
Mm. It's, it's meant.
Like, we are, you know, there's-
You feel it.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, and I think that's, um, we
all get busy, but we have to remember,
you know, what's really important, and
it's not a lot of, you know, it's not-
It ain't money
Sure as hell isn't, is it?
Yeah, it's not, you know, how many big
animals you killed or anything like that.
It's time.
Yeah.
Like, you know,
what, what, uh What can
you give your loved ones?
You can give them time.
My- that's my wife's word, is time.
Mm.
That's the most important
thing to her, is time.
I like that.
Because she wants time with me, time
with my grandkids, time with our daughter
and our son, and, you know, their
families and… Yeah, I don't know.
I guess as we go, we, you know, we
mature and we, maybe we think about
things a little bit differently.
Um, that doesn't mean I
don't wanna go hunting.
That doesn't mean that I don't
wanna, you know, go do crazy stuff.
I do a lot of fun, crazy stuff still.
Mm-hmm.
But
it's… There's gotta be that time
aspect where you're, you're giving
your loved ones enough time, you know?
It's the quality of the time.
It's s- sitting on the couch for
a long time is a very different
experience than spending quality
time with loved ones- Yeah
over a short period of time.
I… And really, time's the only thing…
I'm, I'm with Melinda on that one.
Time's the only thing that
gives our life value, really-
Yeah … when it comes down to it.
Yeah.
If time was infinite, it'd
be like infinite money.
Where's the value in it?
Yeah.
Um, Nims Dai.
Have you heard that name?
Nims Dai.
The mountaineer.
So this really crazy mountaineer
who was, uh, Gurkha forces.
He, he got on with a British SBS, uh, did
his time there, uh, decided he's gotta get
back out in the mountains again, and he…
They did a Netflix show about him, and he
did, uh, I think they call it 14 Peaks.
He did the 14 highest peaks
over 8,000 feet, and uh, he did
it in six months and six days.
Prior to that, it was something
like eight years it took
somebody to do those 14 peaks.
Yeah.
So, um, I've reached out to him in the
past, back and forth with his media
team, and, uh, it was interesting.
Recently, about, um… It, it was
about the time that, uh, we were
recording that, the last episode
there that we did for the year-end
ref- reflection, and you put your…
And maybe it was on my mind, and
uh, uh, the year-end reflection was
when everything else fades, uh, what
do you want to be remembered for?
And with the, the media team reached out
to me and said, "Okay, lookit. We, we
like what we're seeing. We like what's
going on here, but like what, what
would a podcast with you look like?"
And I said, "Really, what I
wanna do is I wanna talk about
purpose after achievement." I
said he's done those 14 peaks.
He did, did it with oxygen.
He went and did it all over again
without oxygen, and then he was going
for, they call it his Triple Crown.
And a couple days ago, he died in an
avalanche with, uh, there was 10 of
them on the slopes there, and he was,
it was on Broad Peak- Apparently it
was a last-minute decision to go and
do this mountain and go up there.
And, uh, but again, you know, gets
you questioning your own mortality
and what is it you're living for.
'Cause some people… Like, I wanted
to have that conversation with him.
Was it rinse and repeat?
Was it mountain, mountain, mountain
again and okay, we've done it?
'Cause it's, it's easy when
you're in the middle of it.
What's your purpose?
What are you living for?
And you can point at the
top of that mountain.
Okay, you've done that mountain.
Now what?
Who are you?
So I, I've done a little bit of thinking.
I don't have the answer f- really
for myself aside from, uh, depth
of connection, uh, in a foundation
of truth, uh, circumscribed by
responsibility because you can't
just blindly w- blindly look for
depth of connection without truth.
Yeah.
And you go too far in there, I mean,
you have responsibilities that, that
should be, they're keeping you inbound.
I- that's, that's the best I've
been able to kinda come up with
what it is that really drives me
Yeah, and I think honestly
for me it changes daily.
Mm.
So I have a, I have a, a, a
schedule that I try to follow.
So my wife and I get up between
4:00 and 5:00 in the morning,
somewhere in there usually.
We're early risers.
Mm-hmm.
We… She goes in the office and
starts prepping stuff so that
orders get out the door that day.
And first thing I do every day is I let
the dogs out, make my coffee, and then
I, I try to read the Bible the first
thing, and then we get, we get going.
But then from that point on-
Mm … it's like what's your mission?
You know, like, what's
the mission for that day?
And I think for me that's, that's what's
helped me is I have a buddy that says,
you know, he's, he says that, uh, every
day is a Saturday, but he also s- he also
always has something that he's working on.
Every day when he gets up he has something
like, "This is what I'm gonna do today."
It's not- Mm … "Oh, let's get up and
just see what happens." There's no just
get up and see what happens for him.
And for my wife there's no
get up and see what happens.
She has a plan, which means I have
a plan because we, we try to, you
know, make that work together.
And I might be like, "Okay, I'm
going shooting tomorrow." Roger that.
So we'll get up- Mm … we'll go for
a walk, we'll lift weights, and then
I'll load up, drive to the range,
shoot long range or whatever, you know.
So- Yep … I think every day to me it
kind of changes, you know, just changes
what, what that mission happens to be.
And then while you're doing
that, once again, you know, give
that time to your loved ones.
And then if something happens
and you have to throw a…
Like, I come back from hunting.
Last year I was up in Wyoming for 10 or
12 days, killed a really good bull, come
home, and she's like, "Ah, w- I wish you
wouldn't go on the next hunt to Wisconsin.
Just you've been gone a lot.
Just-
Mm
…
don't go." Yeah.
And I'm like, "Roger that." So I
didn't go because I, I, I'd had a
great hunt, hung out with my buddy
for those, that amount of time.
We both killed g- really good bulls,
and that was, that was it, you know?
I, I believe in those, you know,
when someone says, "Oh, you know,
I kind of wish you'd stay back."
Yeah, no problem, I'll stay back.
I- i- i- it's such a simple
decision to make, and I don't know,
what are the, the b- wise belief
in divine providence, the, uh-
Yeah
…
or whatever that saying is, the,
um, but just believing, you know,
the universe unfolds as it should.
And the second… And I, I try to
just apply that as I'm, I'm driving
and I don't make that light and, you
know, younger me would be like, "Ah,
I can make it, I'm gonna take it,"
or I'd be, uh, fast on the next one.
Well, maybe I didn't make that light
because at the next one I was gonna
get cut off and there'd be an accident.
Maybe someone's saying don't
go on that trip because there's
something a little bit more.
Like, I don't wanna read into
everything, but I'll just accept it
as it comes, and this is what's, uh,
I, I found, um- I found that to be
a, a way for myself to live anyways
Yeah, and I don't read into it either.
I just, I just go with the flow there,
and- Hmm … I'm a pretty, I, I say
I'm pretty even-keeled guy, but I get,
I get spun up, I get spun up- … just
like, just like everybody else does.
Yeah,
yeah.
But, you know, it's, it's… I've been,
I've been lucky enough that I've been
able to do pretty much everything I've
wanted to do in my life, so it's, it,
it shouldn't hurt my feelings to do what
somebody else wants me to do a little bit.
Because once I do that-
Hmm … I enjoy it anyway.
It's not like, you know, if I go do
something that I hadn't planned, I'm not
gonna enjoy it, you know what I mean?
Mm-hmm.
We had a, we had a really
interesting time last year.
Our son was supposed to get
married, and then that fell apart.
Well, they already were gonna go down…
Our daughter bought us a trip to Mexico
for the whole family, and we were gonna
go down to this all-inclusive thing.
And so we go down there, and- My son's
upset 'cause now he's not getting married,
and that was supposed to be the trip where
they were gonna check it out and then
they're gonna go back in the, later in the
year and get married, actually during- Mm
uh, Valentine's Day.
And it was just mayhem, total mayhem.
So we come back from that and my wife
said, "Uh, we actually didn't turn our
tickets in for the date in February.
Everybody else got their money back,
but we're gonna lose our money-
Mm
…
for this wedding in Mexico." And
I was like, "Well, let's go."
You got it.
So we went right back to the exact same
place where we were there with the whole
family, and we had an absolute blast
because it was just- Mm … my wife and
I. Now we had fun with our grandkids when
we were there, but they were busy 'cause
we had some other relatives that showed
up, and they were doing little kid stuff.
And, you know, I kinda get pushed to the
side because my wife's with my daughter
and I'm over there- Mm-hmm … you know,
just… I'm not a big beach guy in the
first place, but man, when I went with
my wife, we just had a blast, and it was
just the two of us and we could, we could
just be on our own schedule, you know?
So you just never know, man.
Stuff happens and it's, it's fun when
you, you just get, get involved with it.
You just go with it.
Yeah, that's right.
Yeah, I was in, I was in Mexico when
they had that, um, where was it,
Vallarta, when they, uh, took over
the city and when I was flying back,
we were in Huatulco in, um- Yeah
Oaxaca.
I got, first time ever getting stung by
a scorpion, so that was a new one on me.
That was kinda a neat one.
That was kind of interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Wake up in the middle of the night
and there was, uh, uh, something on
my chest and I, uh, brush it off.
And, uh, all of a sudden as I'm
brushing it off, it's, I feel a
zap on my chest, and then I, a
zap on my finger as I'm trying to
roll it off, and it's kinda hard.
And anyways, I, it was a,
uh, just a bark scorpion.
And um, but my wife and I brushed it
off and it's stuck up in the netting,
and my wife's like, "What is it?
What is it?" "Don't, don't worry," right?
'Cause, you know, I some- sometimes
I'll- … yell and fight in my sleep.
And, um, uh, I was like, "No, no,
no, I think it was, uh, I don't know,
I think it was a bee or something."
I didn't wanna get her- Yeah, yeah … get
her concerned about… But yeah- Yeah
… that was, it was kind of a, uh, it was an
interesting trip and then, uh, knew other
people in the, uh, Vallarta area that
were having to swim off of boats 'cause
they're on little, uh, sightseeing things
and swim to the beach 'cause the- Yeah
docks were all shut down.
So when the… Yeah, where,
where in Mexico were you?
Uh, outside of Cancun.
Mm.
So you've
got- So it's totally, it's, it's to-
totally a tourist trap, but it's,
it's, you know, it's really nice.
The food's good.
The… We did some touring the first time
we went over there, and then this time we
just, the second trip we just had a blast.
We didn't do, we never left the compound.
We just- … stayed there and- Sunbathed
… just relaxed and did all that.
Yep.
Nice.
So I'm holding in my hands this book.
I haven't been able to
read the entire thing.
I've read through in different
passages as I go through, and then
I'll go through and do a full sweep.
But, uh, it's a pretty cool book.
It's called The Next Mission.
You were talking about it on the
la- last podcast, saying that
you're basically getting close
to wrapping up, and now it's out.
I think it was June 6 when it went out.
Um, it's a pretty fricking cool
book, and it's, um, it's written
in a very easy, digestible way.
It's got, uh, I like the graphics in it.
I think that was your son-in-law who,
uh- Yeah, yeah … wrote the graphics.
Having pictures in the book
is always helpful for me.
And, uh, and, uh, just the way
that it's, uh, put forward.
Can you, um, can you tell
me a bit about this book?
Well, so the, the way that it came
about was we, I was, uh, I'd never
read the Bible from cover to cover.
Mm. And I was like, I just was like,
"I need to read the Bi- like, read
the entire Bible." Mm. So I started
reading the Bible, and one day I was
telling somebody else a story about
Ehud, the left-handed assassin, which
there's a chapter in there about him.
Mm-hmm.
And, and at the time I didn't, like, I
hadn't really dug into it that far, but
I was telling this story about this guy.
He was- He killed this guy, King Eglon,
and he stuck this dagger in him, and,
and, and the guy was so fat that the
dagger, like, sucked up inside of
him, and then he rolled out of there.
And I mean, it's just a great story,
and I'm telling it, and my wife
goes, "You need to write that down."
Mm.
And I was like, "Write it down?"
She goes, "Well, it's a great story.
You should write that down." And then I
was like, "Ah, okay," 'cause I like to
write, so I started writing the story
down, and then I realized I didn't know
how he made that dagger because I make
knives and I didn't know how to make,
I didn't know how to make, um, bronze.
Mm.
So I started researching, like,
how, how would a dude have
made bronze back in the day?
Well, then I, I put that in the book.
I put that in the story, you know,
how, how he was making bronze with
this much copper and this much, um, um-
Tin and antimony, or…?
Uh, nickel.
Nickel?
Okay.
Or no.
No, tin, tin, tin.
Tin?
Yeah.
So copper and tin.
And then as I got farther down,
now this is, like, as we're going
through the final throes of this book,
I'm doing more and more research.
Mm.
And I was like, "Where did he get,
where'd they get the tin?" And then I
find out that the tin came from England.
So this is, like, a crazy- Huh.
You know, and that's in the book.
I put that in there.
Um- Yeah … we know that now because we
can actually trace the tin, you know, to
what, where it came from in the world by
looking at the, the structure of that tin.
Mm.
Um, so then I thought, "Well,
i- is that written anywhere else
in history?" And it actually is.
Herodotus, his histories, he talks
about the tin that came from England.
It wasn't England, of
course, at that time.
Mm-hmm.
You know, this is way back when, but so
that's how, that's kinda how it started.
And then I started saying, "Okay,
well, what stories do I wanna tell?"
Obviously, I want a, I want a
bunch of Old Testament stuff in
there, 'cause that's where all the-
Yeah … the smiting took place.
Fire and brimstone.
Yeah, there's a lot of death and
destruction in the Old Testament.
So there's a lot of Old Testament
stuff in here, but then there's also
New Testament, and that's- You know,
when, when there's a chapter called,
uh, uh, Ranger Buddy, and it's talks
about the Apostle Paul and the guys- Hmm
that traveled with him, and the, the
whippings they took, the lickings they
took from the lictors, which is a guy that
w- that they called him a lictor, the guy
that beat him with the, with the sticks.
You know, and there's times he could
have stopped those beatings, but
he didn't because his- Two words.
Yeah, he could've said, "I'm Roman."
Yeah.
He
said, "I'm Roman." They would've had
to stop beating him, and he didn't.
He, he, he stayed there with his buddy,
'cause his buddy couldn't do that.
Hmm.
And I was like, "Man, that's a great
story." So what I did with that
one, and I'm, I'm, I'm going deep,
kind of deep into this, but the
s- the story about Paul, um, I put
them in Rome, and you haven't read
the story on Paul yet, have you?
I, well, I, I did read
the Bible a long time ago.
And when I say read- No,
no, I mean in the, in, in this
book … but, but, but not in your book.
No, not in
yours.
Okay.
So towards the end of the book, there's
the, the, um, ranger story there.
So it's called Ranger Buddy,
and he's sitting at a table.
It starts out hi- he's sitting
at a table, and he's chained to a
Roman soldier because that's how
he lived when he was, when he was
in Rome, at least the first time.
Mm-hmm.
The second time we, you know,
we believe he was executed on
his second trip to Rome there.
Um, but I, I, I wrote that, like,
what would a dude like Paul, who's
traveled and done all this stuff, like,
what would he say to that soldier?
And I made him have that conversation.
Hmm.
And it, and it wasn't a, a w- it wasn't
a conversation of disrespect either way.
Mm-hmm.
Because Paul right away started talking
to him about, "Oh, so where'd you
serve?" And then they find out that,
you know, not only did he serve with
Corbulo, Corbulo was a famous general
who Nero, uh, told him to kill himself
to prove that he was, that he was
true to Nero, so he had- Sure … to
commit suicide, which was just completely
ridiculous, 'cause he was a great- Right
commander.
But this guy, I made him the, I for-
I forget how I put it in there, but
it was a cousin of the, the guy that
traveled with Paul on that, sh- that
trip on the ship, where they had
the shipwreck, and he got, you know,
bit by a viper and all this stuff.
Mm-hmm.
And, and also that, that guy
converted to, uh, Christianity.
So it's a, it's a, it, it, it was fun
to put, you know, like they, they were
having this conversation, a soldier in the
Roman army and a soldier in God's army,
and they're having this conversation.
And other people are trying to, like,
"Hey, we gotta write, we gotta finish
this book today." And he's like,
"Hey, I'm talking to this soldier.
Just relax- Yeah … man." And then he
looks at him and says, "Put on the armor
of God," and he uses that soldier to pick
those verses that he wrote in the Bible.
You know, and, and, you
know, did this ever happen?
I believe something like that did
happen, because he was in Rome when he
wrote that book, and he would've- Hmm
been looking at Roman soldiers.
You know, it's just like, uh,
are you familiar with Josephus?
People are people.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Josephus, when, uh, Flavius
Josephus, who was a, a, a Jewish
historian, he was looking at
Romans, and he was in Jerusalem.
And he said, "Their drills were
like bloodless battles, and their
battles like bloody drills."
Yeah.
And when you, so when you hear that as
a soldier- It's the same thing that you
say now.
Yeah, well, and, and, and-
Train hard, fight easy.
Yeah.
Train easy, fight hard or
die.
So, so, right, so that's, th- that tells
me that he literally was watching them
train and then watching them fight, and
he, he, they were doing it the way we
should be doing it, not the way- Hmm
that some folks do it.
And, uh, and I th- and I believe
that, you know… Anyway, so
that, that's how that came about.
So as I wrote it, then I also
wanted to put kind of my two cents
at the end of every chapter, so
there's a lesson learned, and then
there's a battlefield reflection.
Hmm.
Uh, we just finished- uh,
recording the audiobook.
It'll be out in another month or so.
Um, I r- I read part of the book.
I read the parts that didn't
need accents and- … women's
voices and stuff like that.
Sure.
We had another guy, uh, Zach Hoffman,
who's kind of a funny dude, 'cause he's,
he's a bodybuilder, but he does voice
stuff, and he does acting, and he's just
as big as a house, just jacked- Yeah?
dude.
And he, he read the book, and he did…
When I was in the studio, they were
giving me sections of the book that he
was reading, and then I would follow it
up, and I would start reading, you know,
when his- Hmm … section ended there.
Man, some of… Oh, it
was just- It was awesome.
He did a really good job.
He's a pretty talented guy,
huh?
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, super talented.
We, uh, we had several guys that we
chose from, and, and everybody that
listened to it, everybody chose him,
so it was, it was kind of a no-brainer.
The other thing that we did on this
book, it's Kyle and Melinda Lamb.
It's both of us in there.
I saw that.
Um, that was my decision.
She didn't particularly care for that, but
I was like, y- she had so much to do with
this book and making me better understand.
You know, like, if you say, um, we're
gonna go fight, and God was with us.
Right.
Well, that's not the right to say that.
You shouldn't say God was with us.
You should say we were with God.
Ah.
You know, so just a little
twist on those words makes it,
makes it correct, you know?
Uh-huh.
'Cause we're not … It's not o-
We're, we're on God's mission.
We're not on our mission.
We're on God's mission, so
it's… I- if that makes sense.
And once I, once I started looking at
things differently like that from that
different perspective, um- I don't know.
It's just in, in writing fiction,
I've, I've, I wrote another fiction
book that hasn't been released yet,
and I don't know if it ever will be-
'cause my wife said it's
got too much killing in it.
But- Okay … um, there's a lot
of killing in this book as well.
But, uh, yeah.
Anyway, that's, that's how that came
about, and then, um, I asked a few
guys to, to write little pieces here
to, you know, talk about the book,
and I was very happy that Victor Marks
wrote the, the forward to Battle there.
Mm-hmm.
He actually won the, the, uh, Republican
nomination to, for governor of Colorado,
so he'll be going up against the left
there in, in Colorado- Hmm … coming up.
Nice So, uh, I'm actually going out to
do a podcast with him here in, uh, a
couple weeks, and then I'm gonna speak
at his rally while I'm out there, so
that's kind of a nerve-wracking thing.
Very cool.
I've never s- I've never spoke at a,
at a political rally, but there we go.
Oh, I'm, I'm sure it'll be well received.
So is that your next micro-mission?
Is that, uh, in two weeks out?
Like, what is… Now that
this, your The Next Mission is
out, what's the next mission?
Um, I've actually got another couple books
that I'm working on, and I don't know
what book will actually make, ever see
the light of day, but I've got a, a…
And I'm not even gonna tell you about
them yet because they're so- Sure … I've
written one, I've, I've written about
10 chapters of it already, and when
I went, when I go back and I read it,
I'm like, "Oh, this sucks. I gotta,
like, just flush this entire chapter
and do something different." But it-
Hmm … even if I write a chapter that
I'm gonna throw away, it, it gives me,
it, it makes me content to do that.
I do wanna try to get the fiction.
I'm trying to convince my wife that the
fiction should go out the door, but,
um, so I'm working- Hmm … on that.
But then the other thing we're
working on is, um, I've got several,
several classes that are upcoming.
We just got back from Texas.
I spoke down there Saturday.
The weekend before that we were at
Cheyenne Frontier Days at the rodeo.
Um, this next week I'll speak for
one of our organizations here, a
government organization in Tennessee.
Uh, then I head to, uh, Pennsylvania
to teach a class, and that kinda takes
us into September, which is elk season.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, so I've been shooting my b- I
actually literally today was the first
day I've shot my compound in a long time.
I've been shooting my recurve, but
I haven't been shooting my compound.
Mm. So I pulled it out and
just, I'm like, "Oh, man, I'm
I gotta, I gotta get my archery
muscles- … back on here," you know?
And so, uh, getting ready for that
hunt in Wyoming, and then the cool
thing is I'm gonna take my grandson
up to Wisconsin this year to do a, a,
a youth hunt, so that's gonna be fun.
He's, he's killed some
deer on our place here.
He's 12.
He's killed a couple deer here,
but we're gonna try to get him on
a big buck up there in Wisconsin.
Very cool.
So that's kind of the next- Are
you still, uh, are you
still doing the bow fishing?
Yeah.
I, I haven't bow fished in a while.
Um- I need to, I just, I
need to do more of that.
I've been fishing for
smallmouth quite a bit.
Not, obviously not bow fishing for them.
But, uh, I went up to, to your neck of
the woods… Actually, not your neck of
the woods, but I went up to Canada for a
couple weeks and spent- Hmm … 10 days
up in there in the, the Quetico Wilderness
with- Okay … our canoe on our back.
And, and, um, some of my military
buddies and one of my hunting buddies,
he came as well, and we caught…
This is the first time I ever caught
all five species in that area,
'cause I'd never caught a lake trout.
Hmm.
This year I actually caught a lake trout.
Of course, we always catch
walleye and largemouth- Hmm
smallmouth and, and, um, and pike.
We catch pike there as well.
But, uh, that was… I always
love going up there doing that.
But I, I g- I need to get back
out, excuse me, bow fishing,
'cause, oh, it's just so fun.
How do you juggle this all?
Because I, I know and I, I get the sense
that our personalities in some respects
are similar, where we, we're go, go, go.
We like to do things, and lots
of ideas and lots of interests.
And I find, like my knife making, I've
kind of put that on hold for a little bit.
I started developing some, uh, some
things on… I got into AI and, and
building, uh, programs, and I'm building
another one out at the moment, but I
built it off the side of my desk while
I was, uh, working on another project.
I gotta imagine that you've
got a lot of interests.
Like, how do you juggle the hunting,
the podcasting, the speaking,
the writing, the knife making,
the, all of the, the canoeing?
Like, do you find that some
things start to suffer over time?
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, definitely they suffer, but
I just don't know any other way to do it.
Hmm.
I can't… I d- I have the same
attention span as a squirrel.
So I like to do stuff, but then
when I'm done with that, I move on
to the next thing, and then I'll
circle back- Right … to that other
thing when I, when I'm ready to go.
Now, one thing my wife has been on me
about is, like, to enjoy that journey
a little bit more of, if I'm gonna go
fishing, then start prepping my gear
a month out, and then, you know, keep
working on it and refine it until, okay,
now I'm gonna deploy on that fishing
trip, and I'm gonna have a good time.
And I'm… And, and I do good.
Like, when I'm fishing,
I'm, I'm in the moment.
I'm fishing.
I'm not thinking about- Okay … I
don't… Like, I might think about
a poem I wanna write or whatever.
I, I write some poetry, so I… That's
kinda- Yeah … some goofball stuff.
But it's, that's fun, and I might be
going over that in my head a little bit,
but I'm not thinking about- I don't know.
I just, I try to stay in the
moment when I'm doing it.
Um, I've been shooting a
lot of long range here.
I've been shooting the NRL Hunter matches.
Hmm.
That's been a lot of fun because it
takes me way out of my comfort zone.
I had a really, really
good y- year this year.
I didn't quite make my goal.
I was… My goal, I'd shot all
factory the last couple years.
This year I decided I would shoot
every category and try to get
on the podium in every category.
Hmm.
Well, I podium-ed in open heavy,
open light, and teams, but I
did not podium with factory.
I only shot one factory match.
I didn't make it- Whoa … on the podium.
And I'd, I'm gonna try it
again this coming year.
Good for you.
Yeah.
So it's- That's a- You know, I didn't…
There's a, there's a, a Rusty Elmer
Award if you win every category.
Hmm.
I didn't, I didn't go for that.
I went for podium.
So if I'm top three- Right … then
I'm, I w- I consider that, for
me, you know, close enough.
Um, at least- Good for you … initial,
you know, that's what I'm trying to do.
So that's been a really good experience
for me because it's, it's, it's difficult.
I'm uncomfortable, uh,
shooting a long gun like that.
I, I shouldn't say I'm uncomfortable.
It's just calling winds is
a, is a, a black, black art.
Oh, it's voodoo.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's right out of it.
And it's, but it's fun.
It's just so fun.
And I, I've got people that,
you know, are, are good to
talk to me about this or that.
I actually shot a team match
with my buddy Aaron Martin.
We had a blast.
We ended up, uh, third
in teams at that match.
Our very first, or my first team match.
He'd shot it before.
But yeah.
Hmm.
I, I just think that I, I'm always- free
copping is what we call the military.
Free copping?
Frequency hopping radios, they
would- Oh, yes, yes … you know,
jump from frequency to frequency.
That's how they stayed secure.
I do the same thing.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I'm always doing something different.
The only, the only issue I have with my
MO there is that sometimes I leave a mess.
Yes.
Like I'll go teach a class, and I'll come
home, and I'll just put my stuff in a
pile, and then I'll grab my stuff for the
next thing I gotta do and get it ready.
Mm. And then, you know, a month
later I'm like, "Ugh, my stuff is
still sitting in this pile." Mm-hmm.
I need to… You know, my clothes all get
washed, and I clean up my gear if I need
to if it's wet or muddy or whatever, but-
Sure
…
it may not get all tucked away
the way it's supposed to be.
Um, I'm working on that.
I think there's a
term for that.
I think there's a term for that.
I, uh, I've heard a few of them.
I heard if you do that with your
clothing, like you just, it's all
packed up, but it's over to the
side, or you have another section
over… They call them floordrobes.
I've heard those.
Yeah,
yeah.
Well, when I was in the Army
they called it the Kyle pile.
The Kyle pile.
And they'd come in, and I'd have this pile
there, and I'd be just digging through it.
Oh yeah, here it is,
and let's go, you know?
And then, but I had all my guns,
all my gun stuff is organized.
Like if you said- Square it
away … get in your, yeah, get
in your gun bag and give me this.
Boom, I'd have it like it's right here.
Mm-hmm.
What about this wrench?
It's right here.
Mm-hmm.
What about this magazine or this… You
know, I know where all that stuff is at,
but it's, uh… You know, you get ready
to go, like ready to go fishing, how
much fishing gear do you bring with you?
Yeah.
Man, I brought way too much stuff.
That's what you really need.
Yeah.
Right?
You really don't need a lot.
I ended up, this year I went
with just a little chest pack.
I had extra stuff in my bag, but I really
enjoyed having just that little chest
pack because- Mm … it was so simple.
And we got ready to portage, I could
just- throw my other bag on my back and
go, you know, 'cause I had everything
there Yeah So yeah, it was, it's,
yeah, I don't know how we handle it.
I haven't figured out how to handle it
perfectly- Knowing- … but I'm working
on that … knowing where all your kit
is at a, at a moment's notice, but still
unable to find the ketchup in the fridge.
I don't know.
It's it seems to be the curse.
My wife always says the problem
I've got is if I can't find
it, I just buy a new one.
Mm-hmm.
And, uh, that's, you know,
that's sometimes, sometimes true.
Yeah, and th- but then you find
you've got clutter everywhere.
You've got too many things kicking around.
It's, uh- Yeah … the whole what you
own owns you sort of thing that, uh-
Yeah, and I'm doing, I'm actually
working on that a little bit.
A- when, and we had a, the people watching
this don't know this, but I had to upgrade
my setup on my computer before I could
actually get on to talk with you here.
So my wife did that for me on my computer,
and now my desk is all organized, 'cause
as she was doing it- Ah, yeah … she
couldn't, she couldn't look at my desk the
way I had it, and she got sh- everything
is, like, all organized right now.
Right down my desk, everything's
perfect and- … so.
Ah, she's a good lady.
Yeah.
I, uh, it, it's sort of a, uh, an anomaly.
It's a, um, a, a juxtaposition.
I create a mess all around me, and I
operate best in a clean, tidy area.
So I, I, I don't know.
Yeah.
At, at some point it just gets
overwhelming, and it's like I th-
okay, I either just find another
room, and I, this is where I'm gonna
have to operate out of, or I'm gonna
have to s- start tidying this up.
And, and nothing's garbage.
Everything's good, decent stuff,
and it's all organized and,
but- Yeah … just everywhere.
My wife told me, she goes, "Why
do you enjoy hunting so much?"
And I said, "I just like it.
I'm out there, and it's, life is simple."
And she goes, "Well, why don't you make
your life simple when you're at home?"
Mm.
She's like, "You got all this,
like, you live out of your backpack
for two weeks, and you love it."
Mm-hmm.
"
Why don't you just do the
same when you're at home?
Don't live out of a backpack,
but, like, can you get… Like,
you've got, you know, whatever.
I've got too much stuff."
You accum- do you accumulate?
Yeah, I definitely accumulate.
Okay.
And, and, and part of it is, it, I'm
in the firearms industry obviously.
Sure.
So I have a lot of gun stuff.
Yeah.
And I get sent a lot of gun stuff.
Even if I don't ask for stuff,
a lot of times I get it.
Mm. Um, and then what I try to do
is if it's stuff I'm not gonna use,
I try to give it away to somebody.
But it takes me- Mm … a while,
like, okay, I, I, I accumulate it.
I'll give you a, a, a real quick story.
I, I, I called my buddy up and
I said, "I got a big old pile
of stuff outside of my garage.
Would you come get it?" I said,
"But if you come to get it,
you gotta take everything."
Mm-hmm.
"
You can't just come and sort through it.
You gotta take everything." He's like,
"Roger that." So him and his son, they,
um, they show up, and, uh- He starts
going through this pile and he calls
me on the phone and he says, "Hey,
man, I just… You, you screwed up.
There's a… You left a gun
laying underneath that pile."
I said everything.
And
I said, "Dude, I said everything."
I said, "You promised me you would
take everything." He's like, "Are
you serious?" And I'm like, "Yeah,
man." "'Cause that's a gun I'm never
ever gonna use ever again." Mm-hmm.
"And you're, you're the recipient
of that gun." And here's the other
thing, half the stuff in that pile
I didn't even pay for because, you
know, whether it's clothing or, um,
MOLLE gear, guns, whatever, you know.
And I'm not saying I'm not thankful
for that because- Sure … in different
phases I've needed this to, to, to use
for my classes or that or whatever.
But, uh, yeah, we, we laughed pretty
hard about that one, but, uh…
Yeah.
Yeah, I, I, I would look at gun
things as a, um, as an investment.
I can always sell them later, right?
I, I can, I can accumulate and they're
only gonna make me money later on, and,
uh, it doesn't always work that way.
And it does get to be overwhelming,
so I started look- saying, well,
I wanna, I want my gun collection.
I'll start getting rid of the
stuff that I don't really use, and
I wanna have something that's…
I normally wouldn't buy for myself,
something a little fancier, and
I can, I can put it towards that.
So that's, uh, that's my current mindset.
Yeah.
I got- You know?
I did a, kind of a purge a couple years
ago and I got rid of 18 guns in one purge.
Mm. And, uh, it was good, 'cause they're
guns I'm never ever gonna use ever again.
Mm-hmm.
So I just got rid of those and then,
you know, I quickly filled those
slots back up, but, um- … I've
always- Well, what's- … got
stuff coming and going, you know.
What, what are your standbys?
What do you, what are the type
of guns that you definitely
wouldn't be getting rid of?
Well, I would say, I, I mean,
ARs, that's my favorite-
Mm
favorite firearm, I guess I would say.
I've got quite a few of those.
But the… I, I don't mind getting rid of
something like that that I'm not using,
'cause I f- Mm-hmm … you know, if I've
upgraded to something newer or whatever.
So, um, yeah, ARs.
I, I have obviously quite a few different
pistols that are, are… You know,
back in the day when we had 1911s.
Mm-hmm.
So I've got, of course, 1911s
and some old fat guns, you know,
that were in .40 Smith & Wesson.
And then, um, then we carried Glocks
for a while, so I've got several Glocks.
And then I started shooting
M&Ps, Smith & Wesson M&Ps.
Yeah.
So I've got a couple M&Ps.
And then I, you know, now I
shoot SIG products, and, uh,
so I've got several 320s, 365s.
Yeah.
Um, and now I've got into
this stupid bolt gun phase.
Man, that's-
Bolt guns are fricking expensive.
You know?
Oh, yeah.
It, it adds up, and people are like,
"Oh, I'm just gonna get, like, NRL22
or something and save money 'cause
it's just a 22." Have you looked
at the prices of those 22 rigs?
Oh,
I've got a couple NRL22s.
For sure.
Yeah, and I mean, just, like, the ammo
and then sorting through which ammo- Yeah
… you're gonna shoot and then the scope
for that thing, and then having to, "Oh,
that's not shooting good enough. I'm gonna
re-barrel it with a custom…" Oh, man.
I've went- Yeah … down the rabbit hole.
Yep.
Yeah.
Like-
Yeah, we got IBI out here in, uh, not
too far from where I'm at, and MDT was…
Actually, MDT, when they first
started, it was a fellow by the
name of Laszlo Clementis, and he was
selling, uh, gun parts and accessories
on a popular Canadian gun forum.
And I was living with my wife in this
rental house in, in, uh, the White
Rock area, and it was a complete just
run-down crap hole of a house, but it
had a shop in the back and had a quarter
acre, and I'm like, "This is perfect."
And I was doing the parkerizing
for, uh, for Laszlo and his muzzle
breaks- Oh, okay … and screws-
Yeah … and stuff that he made.
But he ended up, um, having Martin
come on there, and with MDT, Martin's
really t- taken it to the next level.
And Laszlo started, uh, International
Barrels, which is now, I think, IBI
Precision, so they're cou- couple of
little local companies here that, that-
Yeah, MDT, I actually, uh, I write for
their blog and stuff, and I shoot their…
I use their s- chassis on most of my-
Mm
…
long-range stuff.
And, uh, yeah, they've been
really good for me to deal with.
You know, it started out, I was
just trying to get product codes
so I could get a, a discount.
Sure.
And now, now I can get a better,
uh, even a better deal than just the
discount 'cause I get to test some
of the new products and do that.
But they're, they're s- they're good
people, and they're, they're, uh,
some of their shooters that they have
are very good friends of mine, so-
Mm-hmm
…
it's, it's nice to see.
They, they usually attract
pretty good people.
And it's interest- So Josh has been
on the podcast, and he's with MDT.
Martin, who's, you know, has been
on, uh, the podcast, and, um,
very faith-oriented individuals.
Yeah.
Yep.
Which, i- and it's, it's interesting
to see the, uh, success that follows
a person who will live their life by
a certain code, and if that code is
altruistic and it's got a, uh, uh…
May- maybe it's just having the, uh, the
concept of a higher power, that you're
n- you're not the be-all, end-all,
and just having that is humbling and
allows you to, to, to grow things out.
I, I, I'm noticing it over and over again.
Yeah.
Like Bear Grylls, he's
been pretty p- uh, popular.
He's done well for himself.
He's actually written some books.
I think the last one he wrote was, um-
The Greatest Story, I think it was called.
I, I wasn't able to read the whole thing.
Uh, this book, however, is more
my style of how I can, uh, how
I enjoy to consume information.
It's, um, uh, it's got a flair
to it that, uh, that I found
lacking in that, that other book.
Well, you gotta write to your
customer, and our customers are you
and military dudes, law enforcement.
Like, Joe Average guy out there, this
isn't meant… You know, if you're
a, if, if you're a, a Bible scholar,
you're gonna scoff at this book.
You just are.
But I'm not trying to help Bible
scholars out, I'm trying to help-
Mm-hmm … people out that, that are,
that might be lost or, or wondering.
And if you look at the beginning,
you know, what it says in there
for the commander's intent
to reach the unreachable.
Mm.
So, you know, the Bible
scholar's not the unreachable.
The unreachable is that guy or gal that's
never gonna read the Bible, you know?
And if I tell them a story,
they're gonna be like, "Now what?
This was from the Bible?" Mm-hmm.
"Are you serious?" Like,
and we start out slow.
We start out with, uh, a, a story about
Moses when he was a baby, and it's, it's
not real, like, it's not super exciting.
But then we get going with, you know,
uh, Joshua and Caleb going into the
Promised Land and doing a reconnaissance.
Mm. Man, can you imagine
the intensity of that?
You know?
Yeah.
And then it gets even more, like you
get into Gideon and fighting, and
you get into Benaiah and going into
a pit with a lion on a snowy day.
Like, what, like what was that
about- Jesus … you know?
So it's- Yeah … it's, it's,
that's, uh… Yeah, I think that,
that, like you said, you know,
you, you wanna be, for us, um-
We're, we're, we're pretty particular
about who we work with in the industry
Mm-hmm And, uh, we try to avoid
shysters and, uh- They're everywhere
… yeah, and snake oil salesmen.
Um- Mm-hmm … you know, and
you gotta be careful too.
You don't wanna, like, wear your,
wear your, your, your faith as a
badge of honor because it's not.
Like, it should be, you know, that should
be held close to your- A personal thing?
Yeah.
It should be held close to your, your
vest, and you should, you know, you
should, you should let your actions
tell people that that's how you feel.
You shouldn't come out and say, "Oh,
well, I wanna do business with you 'cause
I'm, I'm this or I'm that." 'Cause that
makes me go, "Well, wait a minute."
That's where the shysters like to hide.
Yeah.
It's like, man, I don't know.
I'm not sure.
I mean, I'll admit my faith
to anybody on the planet.
I have no problem- Sure
with that.
But I, I do think sometimes people…
'Cause I've been, I've been probably
screwed by the, by those people more than
any other people that we've dealt with.
'Cause, you know, there's some guys that
are complete dirtbags that I deal with,
and I love them because they're, they're
honest- They live, they live, they live
a moral code that's written in the Good
Book, and they don't read the Good Book.
Hmm.
Because they're just good… They're,
they're, they are good people that
when they're, when they say something,
their word actually matters, but
they're rough around the edges.
You know, they're, they're
probably tattooed up.
They're, you know… I mean, nothing
wrong with tattoos, obviously.
No.
But there's… But, but
they're a rougher kinda guy.
Yeah.
That's the people that I'm
attracted to, you know?
Like, that's the person that I want to…
I want to be with them because I can
trust them more than some of the other-
Right
…
people out there.
Yeah.
That's always been my… So I w- I was
raised in this Roman Catholic environment,
went to a few different Catholic schools.
I kept getting kicked out.
It was high energy, high
interest, lots of things.
But, um-
Yeah, being a boy.
Yeah … uh,
well, that's it, right?
I mean, it, th- there is a way to deal
with people, and I had one teacher who
actually did a g- It was in grade four.
He's like, "I don't know if
I can teach you, but you seem
really interested in chemistry.
Did you wanna bring your chemistry
set and set up in the back?
And you can teach chemistry at the,
uh, uh, lunch breaks." And I mean, a
quarter of the class would stay back
because we're making disappearing
ink and things blow up, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Endothermic, exothermic
reactions, and that's cool.
Yeah.
And I was 110% into that.
It was just you're…
That's where it goes.
I, I don't think the, uh,
general schooling system is
geared towards that kind.
It's, it's hard to cater to
each individual interest.
I get it.
Um, but you're talking about, uh, uh,
being in that, you get to see people
of faith and people who wear the
faith because of what it makes them.
Yeah.
And the human institution of it all was
the one thing that really kind of set me
off from, from that path for a long time,
and, um, just looking at how corruptible.
I mean, we're all corruptible.
Everyone's-
Yeah
…
fallible, and that's where I find
hunting and being in the forest, um,
a place where you can connect with
the divine, where you can, um…
Yeah.
So e- everyone's got their
own kinda path there.
You've taken a, uh, a very vocal,
uh, path in showing people.
You're not saying, "This is what you
gotta do." You're saying, "Here's a path.
It might work for you.
I mean, it's worked for me.
It looks… It might work for you," right?
And, and I, I really can
appreciate that approach.
Well, one of the things that I see
a lot on our side of the aisle, and
I'm gonna just blurt it out there,
it's we see a lot of, of Christian
people talking bad about Muslims-
Mm
…
and Islam.
And I'm gonna tell you, I've got a buddy
that is Muslim that's done more f- for
my faith than any Christian has done
for my faith in the last couple years.
Mm. Because he's been my friend,
and he made me realize that not
all of those people are bad.
Not all of them are terrorists.
You know what I'm saying?
Mm. Like, we're, we're trying
to say they're all terrorists.
Well, come on, man.
Give me a break.
And then when I, when I read it in
the Bible and it says that the two
things that you're supposed to do,
that God, that Jesus said that you're
supposed to do is you should, heart,
body, soul, mind, everything you focus
on the Lord as the Lord, and then the
second thing is to love your neighbor.
Mm-hmm.
He's my neighbor.
That's a, that's something you're not
seeing a lot of, uh, in past years,
and I'm also seeing a resurgence, and
maybe it's just my feed or maybe it's
where my attention is, but you're
seeing a resurgence in the popularity
of faith, uh, particularly Christianity.
And, and maybe it's because that pendulum
swung so far to one side that the
people are starting to push back a bit.
It's easy to be able to manipulate
and control masses by having a shared
enemy, and that shared enemy can
just be one side against the other.
It's way harder to find value in
the side that you are supposed to
despise and find common ground.
Yeah, and the thing
is, he, he, he sent me a, a
Bible verse one day and I was
like, now it's a Bible verse.
It's not from the Quran.
It's a Bible verse.
And I read it and I'm like, man, that's
a, that's just what I needed today.
Yeah.
Like, this guy loves me like a
brother, and I needed that today.
And then a couple days later I called
him up and I said, "Hey, man." And,
and the re- the way we met is I speak
Arabic, colloquial Egyptian Arabic.
Yeah.
And we, he was in one of my
classes, and he's a, he's Egyptian.
And when I found that out, I, I laid on
some colloquial Egyptian Arabic to me and
he's like- … "You're speaking Arabic
and you're speaking my dialect." And we
were just like a, instantly we had this-
… we had this thing going on, you know?
Did we just become best friends?
Yeah.
So we s- we started talking and, and,
and he said, "Well, I sent you that
verse out, out of the Bible because I,
I didn't think that you would appreciate
if I sent you a verse from the Quran."
Do you remember the verse?
Um, I'd have to dig,
I'd have to dig it up.
Okay.
But the, the, the moral of the story
is he cared enough to take a verse
from the Quran and go find- Hmm
that same verse in the Bible
that says the same thing.
It's not the same- Hmm … verse,
but it says the same thing, and
he sent me what I needed, not what
somebody who's Muslim would need.
Hmm.
So th- that, so that led
us, that led me down-
Like, w- so what are, what,
what truly are his beliefs?
Like, what … You know, we
hear all of the beliefs about
how bad these people are.
Right.
And I'm, I'm not trying to
convert anybody to, to be Islamic.
That's not what I'm trying to do.
You know that.
But-
Sure
…
w- if you look in the Quran,
there's, they speak of Jesus.
Okay, now their beliefs in Jesus are
different than our beliefs in Jesus.
Mm. Um, there's a book of Mary
about Mary the mother of Jesus.
A lot of these other figures that are
in the Bible are also in the Quran.
So I'm, what I'm, I guess what I'm
trying to get at is, you know, they
believe that Jesus is the Messiah,
that he sits at the right hand of
God, and that he's coming back.
Okay, well, that's, that's
similar to what I believe.
Now, I'm not- Sure
I'm not trying to tell people
to go out and, and and change.
That's not it.
I'm just telling you that when you meet
somebody like that, meet them where
they're at, and that's as your neighbor.
So- Mm … love your neighbor.
That's what the Good Book
says, love your neighbor.
He's my neighbor.
You know, he's, obviously, we don't,
he doesn't live close to me here, but-
Sure
he's the guy, and he has given me more
back than, than anybody that I've been in
contact with because he's, he's so open
with his faith, he'll, if I ask him a hard
question, he will give me the hard answer.
Mm.
And, and he asks me some hard
questions, too, and I just shoot, you
know, completely straight with him
because there's, there's absolutely
no judgment from either side, and I
think that's what, where no matter
what your beliefs are, I, I don't think
that in either one of those books it
says you should judge other people.
Mm-hmm.
It definitely, you know,
the, it, it doesn't say that.
I had a lady the other day, I was
eating chow with a good buddy of
mine, and he's got a, he's a, he,
he uses the F word, uh, a lot.
Mm.
He's from up in, uh, uh, New England.
He was from up there.
Now he lives down here.
So this lady gets up beside us at this
Mexican restaurant, and she's getting
ready to leave, a big old heavy-set
gal, and she stops at our table and she
goes, "I just want to let you know that
you're, you're, you're in Centerville,
Tennessee, and we're a Christian
community, and we don't appreciate talk
like that," and, and blah blah blah.
You know, she started going on.
My buddy's like, "What is
she saying?" 'Cause he's-
Sure
…
deaf.
He couldn't hear what she's saying.
I said, "Oh, you know, I-" Yeah.
And I didn't say anything, and she keeps
going, and I was like, I, I've met a
few Pharisees, but I saw one standing
right there- … trying to tell me,
you know, like, how we have to act.
Right.
I'm here meeting this guy where
he's at, and I'm loving him because
he's my brother, he's my friend,
and I wanna help him out, and he
speaks a little bit differently than
she believes people should speak.
I'm with him, and I'm, I'm with him
Well, Christ didn't, didn't hang
with all the perfect people.
Well, yeah, he- You know, there
were some prostitutes and the-
Fishermen.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, so, so anyway- Those dirty
fishermen, yes.
Yeah.
So finally she leaves, and he goes,
"What did she say?" And I told,
I told him, and he, of course, he
went off, you know, about that too.
And, uh, and I was mad.
I was like, "You attacked my friend."
Mm.
And you use this term that, you
know, this, this cookie cutter
of what a Christian is supposed
to be versus what the Bible says.
Mm. So you're taking what you, you
know, you're taking old, you know,
y- you're, you're… And that's why I
would say, you know, like a Pharisee or
something that's, that's- Sure, of course
kinda trying to, to lay rules
on us from the Old Testament
where, well, if you wanna go and
sacrifice animals, you do that.
But, you know- Mm … Christ died on the
cross for us, so I'm gonna go with that.
I'm gonna go with the latest
update to that good book.
You know what I'm saying?
Latest firmware update.
Yeah, yeah.
So anyway, it, the, I guess what
I'm saying there is you, you just
never know how you're gonna, who
you're gonna meet, how, how…
I don't know where I was
going with that, honestly.
I just think- Well- … it's a,
a good discussion to have because
there's enough hate out there.
We don't need to add to that.
Now, there's people that do need
to be hated, you know, if there's
child molesters and folks like that.
100%. I'm, I'm all on board with that.
Mm-hmm.
That's a different, that's completely a
different line of questioning, you know?
That's right.
Um, but when it comes to, you know,
if a guy is Jewish or Muslim or
Buddhist or whatever, uh, y- so you're
telling me I gotta hate that guy?
I just, I don't- There-
I really don't think so.
There's more that connects
us than actually divides us.
And- Yeah.
But that's not what people see on the
day to day, because it's, may- maybe
we're wired that way to begin with.
I, I think some people obviously will
take advantage of that wiring, and
they'll use it for their own benefit
to try and, uh, divert attention
maybe from what they're doing or to
control masses or whatever it might be.
But I, I don't think there's some grand
architect out there saying, "Okay, now
we're gonna make them hate here, and we're
gonna make them hate here." I think people
do that well enough just on their own.
Oh, yeah.
I think we're- Yeah … we're,
we're naturally wired just to find
the differences and become tribal.
And, and, and I find there's a lot
of people out there who like to, uh,
cloak themselves in virtue, uh, when
it's not actually what they are.
It's, um-
So, so you just said
something I wanna jump in on.
You said about the tribe.
Mm.
So I ha- I'm, I maybe have a
different- We, we're all, I guess
we all have different opinions.
Sure.
So my opinion on tribe is
that tribe is a good thing.
Yes.
And I think tribe is a good thing because-
You should be around people
that make you better.
Yes.
And tribe makes you better.
Tribe, the, the members of a
tribe take care of each other.
Now, when I say tribe, I'm not
talking about the color of your skin.
I'm not talking about what part of
the planet you happen to be born on.
Mm-hmm.
I'm not talking about
what religion you choose.
This dude, Sharif, is part of my tribe.
I mean, I… He's, he's met
my daughter, he's met my wife.
He's, he loves my family.
He's part of my tribe.
And some people would say, "Oh,
you know, they're gonna…"
It's like, well, then
you're not part of my tribe.
If you don't love your neighbors,
then you're not part of my tribe.
You know what I'm saying?
Yes.
And who, who are the neighbors?
You know, the, the, the, the kid that's,
that's starving to death, you know, in
in Burma or, or, or they've been bombed.
Well, my buddy lives in
Thailand, so that's his neighbor,
and they're literally…
Free Burma Rangers are going in
there and helping those people out.
They're actually- Mm-hmm
… helping their neighbors.
And the first things they do are not,
"Oh, you better believe in God or I'm
not gonna help you." They don't say that-
Right … because they're good people.
They say, "How can we help you to
fix the wound that you just got?
You're displaced, so let's try
to get you a place to live.
You know, it's gonna be made
out of a, a, a bamboo poles and
a tarp or something like that.
We're gonna get you some chow over here.
We're gonna get you medical aid.
And okay, we're, we're done with all that.
Hey, we're gonna do this thing.
Would your kids like to come and we're
gonna do this good news program, and
they're gonna sing, and we're gonna
give them some books to color in or-
Mm-hmm
whatever." Well, what do
you think those people do?
They're like, "I wanna
be part of that tribe."
100%.
These people are helping me out.
That's their… You know, and they're,
they're white and they are brown.
That doesn't matter to anybody there.
You know, it matters that they're all,
they all have the same mission, and
that mission is to good, to, to survive
with their families and be good people.
It's not a, a mission to eradicate
somebody off the planet, you know?
Right.
Yeah, I like that, shared mission.
I've always looked at it as just a
shared value structure, and it's, uh, you
know, Constantin Kisin, he's a political
pundit, w- very, very well-spoken, uh,
British fellow from Russia, I think he is.
Uh, and he talks about, you know,
diversity is not our strength.
You don't go onto a football
team and say, "Okay, everyone,
just go do your own thing." No.
You have a shared mission.
Yeah.
You have a shared goal
that you all work towards.
You can bring in diverse ideas,
but they all have to have some
overarching binding agent in there.
And he talks about the, um,
uh, um, uh, like, the…
We have to think about the, the
British Jewish community and the,
um, uh, the Muslim Jewish comm- or
the, uh, British Muslim community
and, and all these different
communities you gotta think about.
He's like, "No, you gotta think
about Britain. You have to think
about what we're doing 'cause we're
all in this whole thing together."
Yeah, yeah.
Yep.
It's, uh… W- was there an
inflection point for you when, uh…
'Cause you've been a man of faith
for a long time, but was there a point
when it was like, "Okay, hold on a
second. This means something here"?
W- so my belief or, or this thing
that I'm talking about with-
No, faith.
Uh, your belief.
Well, I was, I've been a believer
since I was a kid, but I, I, I've…
You know, my path was not very straight.
Right.
My straight, my, my path has been
pretty circuitous and, and I guess-
But looking back, my,
when did I talk to God?
I talked to God when I wanted protection
and safety, and sometimes it was,
you know, like I didn't wanna be a
coward, so, "Hey, God, look out for
me. Don't let me be a coward in this
gunfight- Sure … or whatever." Sure.
Um, "I'm gonna jump out of this
airplane tonight from 24,999 feet.
Please help me," you know?
Mm-hmm.
Um, I don't pray like that anymore, so
I've, I've, my, my faith has evolved
where I'm not asking for protection.
Now I'm asking for other things like,
"Help me to do your will." Y- y-
your will, not my will, your will.
Like, what, what is it I need?
And it'll be put in front of you if
you just, you know, if you take that
time, like you said, you know, that
time that you spend in the woods- Mm-hmm
that quiet time, that's what it's about.
It's … You could do that in your
house, too, if you could just shut
everything off and go into a room
and just can be completely quiet.
You can make that happen, too.
It's just easier outside because
everywhere you look, it's God.
You know, every- Mm … every
plant, every animal.
You know, y- if you think that
a woodpecker, you look at how
their tongue is designed, you're
telling me that is- … evolution?
Right.
Give me a freaking break, you know?
So I think that it's, th- there's no time
that I can just say that I made a, a flip,
and I still struggle just like everybody
else, and I think that's, that's kinda
the point of this book, too, is that
those battlefield reflections, I'm very
honest in those, and- You know, I show
you the, I show you the dirty laundry- Mm
and it's, everybody has that.
If anybody says they
don't, they're, they're-
They're full of it.
Yeah.
They're, they're probably not
quite telling the truth there.
Um, man, I fall off the wagon,
you know, dozens of times a day.
Y- you know, I'll do something, I'm like,
"Ugh, I don't wanna do that," you know?
Okay, okay, God, you gotta
get me back on track here.
You know, and sometimes I'll do it and
I don't even, like I, I don't go till
the end of the day and I'm like, "Ugh,
man, today I really sucked." Mm. I
gotta do, I gotta do better tomorrow.
And I think that's the, that's the
point I would make to people is don't
think like you're all of a sudden gonna
wake up one day and you're, you know,
wearing a robe and, and you're gonna-
you know, sing songs all day,
'cause I don't think any of us has
the time to be able to do that.
But you may have a point where it
might become a little bit easier, you
know, to get past some of those… You
know, and s- and some of those, th-
there's a chapter in here called Iron
Sharpens Iron, and I talk about my
buddy in, in Hawaii, Shane Fujinaga.
He, he and I met, and very
quickly we become friends.
And the very first day that I met him,
that evening he took me to where I was
supposed to be lodging right on the, in,
in Hawaii, right on the, the shore there.
And, and I asked him a question,
and he, he gave me an answer.
And man, the, the question I asked
him was, like, how do you, like-
I wanna, I want to, to be a
Christian, I wanna make sure
that I'm doing the right things.
And he said, now this is not what
he said, but, you know, "Wide is the
path, but narrow is the gate that
leads to righteousness." That's not
what the Bible says, and that's not
what he said, but that's what I heard.
Hmm.
Because it's, it actually says, you know,
"Wide is the gate…" Or, "Wide is the
path and wide is the gate that leads
to," you know, to failure, basically.
Mm-hmm.
And then, "Narrow is the path and narrow
is the gate that leads to righteousness."
When I heard that, I was like, that,
that changed how I felt because… And
I, and I'll tell you where it came from.
So, stopped drinking,
haven't drank in 12 years.
Mm-hmm.
And didn't have, like, a big problem
with it, I just, it just needed to stop.
Doesn't help you.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So on this very first trip I go on, I'm in
this hunting camp, and there's a buddy of
mine that's a preacher and he's drinking.
And I was like… And I
was struggling with that.
I was like, man, I just, I'm not
sure… I'm not judging here, but
this, like, I'm… I don't know, man.
Hmm.
And so I come back from that, and then
I end up in Hawaii, and I'm asking my
buddy, I'm like, "Here's what happened,"
you know, and, and then he said that.
And, and this guy Shane
is just a man's man.
He's like, he's got- … fingers like
the size of… Uh, he's just a- … he's
just a tough, tough dude, you know?
Yeah.
He goes out, he goes out spearfishing.
I'm like, "Well, how, how long do
you go out there? How long do you
go swim around?" He goes, "Oh, bro.
Sometimes I swim for, like, 12 hours."
Yep.
And I'm like, "12 hours?" Yep.
"You gotta be kidding me," you know?
And he's just got, he's just a great
dude, so we've become, um, good friends
and, and, uh, just a good, good dude.
So like I, you know, like I
said before, he's part of my
tribe, you know what I'm saying?
So what does praying look like to you?
Because I think to a lot of people,
praying looks like a genie in a bottle.
It's like, "Can you grant this wish?
Can I get that?
Okay, I really… I d- I did something
stupid, and, uh, can you fix it?
Can you make it not hurt?"
What's it look like to you now?
Um, I just
You don't have to, you know,
you, you don't have to do it in
front of people to make it count.
Yes.
That's one thing you need to remember.
And you don't have to say a word.
You can do it in your mind.
I usually try to kinda say it, but
a lot of times if I'm out in public,
I'm, I mean, I might be praying
about something right then and there.
Um, you know, I'm on a airplane and
the flight attendants are being turds.
It's like, okay, Lord, just help me right
now to, to not tell them what the actual
laws are because they're saying one
You know, it's like- Yes.
Yep … just, just stop.
Just l- give me the, give me the,
give me the patience and compassion
to stop right there and, and-
Mm … and fix this, you know?
Um, now there are other times
that it's pretty hardcore praying.
And, uh, so I was at a, I was
at an event and my buddy shows
up there, and it's kinda cool.
He's actually gonna be showing
up here tomorrow, and we're going
to a, a men's event in Nashville.
He's from Florida.
And he shows up at one of my
leadership seminars and he's like,
"Um, when you, when you get done,
I got a couple of God questions for
you." And I'm like, "What?" Mm. And
he's been in a bunch of my classes.
So I hurried up my, put my stuff away
and we sit down and we start talking.
There was another guy there,
and eventually I was like, "Hey,
dude, I, I gotta, we gotta talk
s- about some personal stuff here
if you could." So this dude bails.
So I'm, I'm sitting there talking to
my buddy and, and I go, "So what's up?"
And he goes, "I'm just, this faith
thing, I, I'm … You know, we've
talked about before, and you know, what
about reading the Bible?" And we're
having this conversation, and I said,
"Well, have you prayed about it?" And
he goes, "Well, I've prayed before, but
I didn't get what I was asking for."
Mm.
And I was like, "Well, what,
what did you pray about?"
And he said, "Well, I was in a softball
tournament, and I wanted to win the
softball tournament, so I prayed about
it, and I never won." And I was like,
"Bro, do you think God has the time
to worry about FIFA or your- … your
softball tournament?" He's like, "Uh."
And I said, "So let's, let's back this up.
Let's talk about what
is an answer to prayer."
I said, "You told me today …" Yesterday
w- I went to eat chow with a buddy of
his, and his buddy sent him a picture,
and he's like, "What's Kyle doing
here?" And he goes, "Well, he's down
here to do a leadership seminar for all
the sergeants." And he goes, "Aren't
you a sergeant?" He goes, "Oh, yeah.
I didn't know Kyle was the speaker.
I'm supposed to be in that class."
Mm.
So he shows up.
I said, "Well, do you think maybe
this is an answer to prayer?"
Hmm.
'
Cause we're sitting right
here having this conversation.
He's like, "Huh, I never thought
of it that way." And I said, "Okay.
Well, I mean, I'm not saying
I'm an answer to your prayer.
I'm not, not, I'm not trying to be that-
Sure
bold that I would say that, but we're
having this conversation right now that's,
you're been struggling with, and we're
sitting here face-to-face and we're
having it w- this didn't just happen."
Mm-hmm. You know? So he's like, "Hmm.
Well, how do you read the Bible?"
And I'm like, "Man, just pick it up.
Wherever you start
reading is gonna be fine.
Don't, don't think you gotta
read it cover to cover.
Don't think you have to do this.
Just let it fall open and
then read, and guess what?
It's gonna be exactly what
you need right there." Hmm.
"And then go on about your day,
you know?" And at the time,
his wife was not a believer.
He's not really there yet.
His kids are just kinda,
like, they don't really know.
And, uh, he gets up and gives
me a hug, and away he goes.
And I'm like, "All right.
I hope…" You know, I'm like,
"All right, God, be with this dude.
Just be with him.
I don't know, you know, whatever's
meant to be with him, be there if
he's got questions or whatever.
Show him, try to show him the way."
So he leaves, and I go with my other
buddy, and I, I, I told him what we're
sitting, and I was like, "Yeah, I
had a long talk with this guy before
we, uh, got out of there today."
And he's like, "Oh." And boom,
my phone buzzes, and I look
down, and it's from this guy.
Hmm.
And I, I was like, "Okay, I hope this
is good." And I opened it up, and he
goes, "Yeah, man, I left and I, I was
driving home, and a homeless guy come
out and accosted my car and come up
beside me, and he didn't say a word.
He didn't ask for anything.
He didn't put his hand out.
He didn't try to clean my windshield.
But he put a sign in my window,
a little cardboard sign, and it
said, 'Jesus is the answer.'"
Hmm.
"
And then he pulled it
back, and he walked away."
Hmm.
And he said, "I got it.
I get it.
I'm o- I'm good.
I'm, I'm on this." Well, now let's, you
know, fast-forward now a year later.
Him and his wife are both going
to church with their kids.
They've all been baptized.
I mean, it's a, a very positive thing.
He's coming this weekend to go to an
event with me in Nashville- Hmm … him
and another one of his buddies.
So-
That's, that's how it works out.
It's not like this magical thing.
And I've ha- I've had some really crazy
stuff happen to me, and I'm not gonna,
I'm not gonna share some of that.
But I've had some, I've had some
answers given to me that, that
They're not made by man.
You know?
And that's- You know- That's it.
That's, if, but you, but, but you can't
get an answer if you're not listening.
Yes.
It, it's, I, I think it's
kinda like Jeep drivers.
These guys, they, they get a new
Jeep, they just got their first
Jeep, and they look, drive around
and they see Jeeps everywhere.
Well, the Jeeps were always there, but
you're just paying attention now, right?
And they're all waving to each other.
And I bring this up 'cause my son got
a Jeep and he's like, "Oh, look at
all these Jeeps everywhere," right?
And the Jeeps are-
My wife and I had this conversation today.
What is up with the daggum ducks?
Yes.
I have no idea.
It's, but they got 'em, and they'll
duck you, and they'll put the
Jeep duck or whatever on the, uh-
Dude, you gotta- I don't know what
that's about
…
you, you, they, they must
drive like complete sissies
because- … there's no way a duck
would stay on the dash of my truck.
Right.
Come on.
That duck would be quacking
and rolling off the side.
You know what I'm saying?
Yes.
Yeah.
Um, well, I got the luxury of living
about 10 minutes away from my studio
here, and the office is about a
10-minute walk away, and I, um, I, I
don't have to drive too much because
living in the lower mainland here, it's
an easy way to, uh, to definitely get
your blood pressure up a few points.
I think I gotta do what you do.
You're, you got a nice place
out there in Tennessee where
you got a little bit of space.
Yeah.
And, uh, I think that's the,
uh, the plan as we move forward.
Well, no, man, it's good.
It's, it's, it's, uh, I don't know.
It's the Jeep people always do crack me
up and the- … everybody, I don't know.
It's like just 'cause you own
a Jeep, that doesn't mean we're
bros, you know what I'm saying?
Like- … it's kinda like
my buddy, he had a Harley.
He had like this big Harley
chopper thing, you know?
Sure.
A customized thing that he built, and he's
like, "Why are these people waving at me?
I'm not their bro.
Like, they drive a Harley- Right
and I drive a Harley.
W- we're not friends because
you got a Harley," you know?
So I- Soul Porch
did a whole episode on that one.
Yeah, yeah.
I just, that just- … that cracks me up.
It does.
Now, what I would say is this.
As you go farther away from the flagpole,
you get closer and closer, this is
my opinion, you get closer and closer
to the people that are your tribe.
Hmm.
Because if I leave, if I leave my house
and I get on a airplane and I fly to
out west, and then I get in a vehicle
and I drive out to the mountains, and
then I get on a horse and I ride up
into a hunting camp- Mm-hmm … or
I walk up into a hunting camp, and
then I sit down at a fire with five
other people that have done the same-
Mm-hmm
trip to get where they're at,
probably sitting there with five
people that are part of my tribe.
I agree.
I
agree.
We don't agree on everything,
and that's what's fun about that.
But when, when we're out there and we
don't agree, we don't hate each other.
We have great- Right … discussions,
and it's, it's just awesome.
I think that's, you know, to
me that's kinda how that, you
know, how that shakes out.
And it's the same because if I
go to teach a shooting class,
there's more of a, a, the ability
for them to be part of my tribe.
Or if I'm going to a shooting-
Yeah … match or if I walk into, you
know, if I walk into a Chick-fil-A,
I'm probably gonna be around more
people that I agree with- Sure
you know, than if I walk into a Starbucks.
So I, I- Yeah.
Sure … I have a new, one of my new
goals is never to drink Starbucks
coffee ever again in my life.
And I've been doing- Good goal … pretty
good for the last little bit, so.
Good
goal.
How many classes are
you teaching a year now?
I have no idea.
Lots?
No, I'm doing less than I was.
So, like, this month I
think I do three classes.
Um-
Primarily just in the s- warmer
months or, because three classes-
No, I- … a month- Well, I don't do,
so usually I don't do classes in, in
September because it's elk season.
Hunting, yeah.
But this year I'm actually
doing one the end of September.
And then I've got, um,
I'm trying to think.
December I know I've got a couple
classes 'cause I'm doing some stuff
for Sig up at, at Sig Academy.
But I, I, I generally do it
when it's not hunting season.
Hmm.
So- I
agree
…
and then the other thing I've
been doing too is I wait till the
NRL hunter schedule comes out.
I put all those cl- those, those matches
that I wanna shoot on the schedule- Smart
and I plan my training around that.
And, and sometimes I have to miss,
miss matches 'cause I've got, you
know, certain things that I have to do.
But, uh, yeah, I suppose this
year I'll probably do, like, 24-
Probably like 24 classes,
something like that.
Okay.
I honestly, I don't even know,
and I don't really wanna know.
We've, we've kinda changed the way
that we do this so that it's, we
do it if we wanna do it, we do it.
If we don't wanna do it-
Mm-hmm … we don't do it.
I like that a lot.
'Cause there's some places I
don't, like I don't want to go,
like I, I just can't go there.
I can't go to California- Yeah,
I get it … or Washington State.
Yeah.
I can't do it because the, the,
the gun laws there won't allow
me to do what I need to do.
Um- Yeah … you know, I can't
go to foreign countries and
train because of my background.
Mm-hmm.
And there's enough people to train in
America that I don't, you know, and
I've done stuff for Canadian Special
Forces, and I've done stuff for other
organizations too, but I've always
done that at the be- the behest of
the US government, so it's- Mm-hmm
so it's completely legal
when I do it that way.
But we're not gonna put, you know,
put through the paperwork for me to
go, you know, train a bunch of people-
Sure … in Jordan or something like that.
Um, I'm really interested to
see if this book opens any
doors for opportunities as well.
I, I don't know what's gonna happen there.
Um- Like what kind
of opportunities?
Well, honestly, I've spoken at a, a few
churches already, and i- that's probably
the most nerve-wracking thing that
I've ever done because it's just- Yeah?
… you know, you gotta, you,
you wanna get it right.
I don't wanna … Wanna make sure I
don't cuss or get struck by lightning or-
anything like that, you know?
So, um- Yeah, I, I guess we'll see.
Uh, we- we'll see what happens.
I just, I'm just excited for the future,
and I don't even know what it is.
I don't know what the, what the future
holds, but man, it's always, it's,
it's always better than I ever planned.
Yeah.
I, I, I guess what I was asking about the
courses, like, do you find it when you're
in a course, you have set class sizes-
Yes
X number of people that can fit- Yes
… inside a classroom, yet when you write a
book, you, you don't have that limitation.
When you're on social media,
you don't have that limitation.
You've got a reach, and you've
only got so many hours in a day.
Do you find it, um, increasingly
difficult to dedicate one-on-one time
when you know you could reach a much
wider audience through your, your writing
or through the, um, the knife work or
through the foundation that you have?
Well, the, the here's the… I'll just
tell you the truth, how about that?
Okay.
That sounds- If I- … a
good place to start
…
if I shoot guns, I get paid.
Okay.
I love it.
And that's just, I'm just
being honest with you.
W- I love to teach shooting, and I get
paid very well, and we have a minimum
pay, so it's, it's up to 15 students, it's
this much a do- this many dollars a day.
Mm. And that's how it is.
If you want one student, it's still that
same amount of money for one student.
Mm. So we don't do it
very many one-man classes.
I do some- Sure … that are, like,
three or four guys, and they don't mind
paying that because they're- Mm … then
they get more attention than, than
if I've got 15 guys on the range.
When I do a, a leadership seminar,
the rule there is if you can fit
them in the room, they're allowed in.
So it's- Mm … it's much,
it's much more of a benefit.
I just did one in Texas last weekend,
and Sig, you know, they had… they could
fit 40 people in this room comfortably.
Mm. They could fit 100 in there,
but, but, but then that's not
gonna work for a six-hour- Sure
class.
So they put 40 in that room.
They put it out.
They filled the 40 slots.
I went and did my thing, and, you
know, it's, it, it works out great.
So I like- To teach shooting if
it's a class that I want to teach.
If it's some- Hmm … if it's,
there's some places I just,
I, I just don't wanna go.
Like I, I, I have- I get it
some places that I go where I have
usually, like, uh, Sig Academy, when I
go there, in a 15-man class, sometimes
there'll be two people I don't know.
Usually I know-
Hmm … everybody in the class.
That's fun.
And that's fun.
That's like- Yeah … being with all
my bros, you know, and we just are
doing our th- and it's, it's really,
really- And you get paid to do it.
Yeah, and I get paid to do it.
So yeah, I love, I, I, I like to make
money to, to- Yeah … so that I can
do the other stuff, and that's kind of
the rule my wife and I have is if I'm
gonna go shoot this match, which is
all gonna be out of pocket- Hmm … I
gotta teach a class to pay for that
match, you know what I'm saying?
Yeah.
So I'm teaching because I wanna teach
and because I have to earn money so
I can use it for, for other things.
Um, there are things I do that I don't
get paid for that I enjoy just as well.
I got asked the other day to go speak
to a football team and I went and, you
know, spoke with them for 45 minutes,
and that's, you know, that's always fun.
I've spoke, like I was invited
to go speak to the, the incoming
Boston Bruins, um, hockey team.
That was a lot of fun.
A, you know, a bunch of young guys.
Um, I've been up to West Point
a few times to speak to the,
the, the, uh, cadets up there.
That's always good.
I spoke this year at the, um, Sig does
a big event that they, they bring in all
the cadets from the different academies
and they have a big shooting competition.
Hmm.
And I was the guest speaker
for the, the banquet at that.
That was awesome 'cause I could, I
could like talk to these upcoming young
officers and, you know, kinda tell them,
you know, my thoughts on the world before
they step in there and, and actually
meet other guys just like me that are
gonna be working for them, you know?
So.
That,
is that sort of the natural, uh,
progression of a warrior in your mind?
That you go from a hard charger to
someone who's now, uh, helping shape
the minds and hearts of, uh, of those
who'll be hard charging as well?
Well, I think, I th- I think that
I would rather take the path of
Miyamoto Musashi than somebody who j-
just destroys everything in the end.
You know what- Hmm … I'm saying?
Like, it, I wanna be, I wanna
be successful by helping people,
not by tearing something down.
Right.
I've done enough destruction in my
life where I got paid to do that,
and it was really, really fun.
But- Sure.
… I'm beyond that now, and now I can
actually build stuff and help people and,
um- Some of it I think is reflection.
I mean, I re- I've, I reflect a lot on
what I've done in the past and, you know,
that's where the poetry thing came about.
'Cause some of the, my poems are,
you know, that's what they're about.
They're about my past or other people's
past or, you know, just y- they're just
kind of whatever you want it to be.
But it, it allows you to tell a story
and doesn't really matter, like, who
it's about or, or where it's from.
It's, it's, it's just a story and
that's, there's not … You don't
have to … Some people are gonna try
to take deeper meaning from it, but
I, I had a poem I read to a guy and
he fricking got all, started crying
and everything and I'm like, "Dude."
Your
poem?
He goes, "Man, that made me think
of…" Yeah, one of my poems.
And, and he's like, "That made me think
about this," and I'm like, "That's not
even close to where I was going with
that." So you just never know, like how-
Yeah … somebody's gonna take something.
And it was good because then
he started writing poetry.
His poetry, he's only written me
two poems that he's let me read,
and they are, they are unbelievable.
'Cause he takes, like,
months to write a poem.
I, I write a poem- Hm … in like,
you know, 20 minutes or whatever.
And then I'll go back a month later and
look at it and, you know, change it up a
little bit there and, and, uh… And some
of it is based on, like, what I'm reading.
Like, I, I was just reading a
book about, I studied Henry V a
lot because of the Battle- Okay
of Agincourt.
Right.
And then the Battle of Shrews- Shrewsbury,
where he got injured, shot in the
face with an arrow, and then had to
have that removed and all this stuff.
And, and then going into France and
the Battle of Agincourt, what happened,
um, there fighting the French.
So I wrote a poem about it, and it's,
you know, you, you kinda have to know…
If you, if, if you didn't know about
King Henry, you probably wouldn't know
You have a hard time
understanding that poem.
Sure.
So my plan with these, and this is what
I normally do, is when I do a poem, I
actually, I, I give a, like a synopsis
of where it came from, what it's about.
And s- when I s- when I talk
about something in there, you
know, what that, what that means.
For example, like that poem I talked
about this guy being made of glass.
Well, that was the, the, the French king.
He thought he was made of glass.
He was- Mm … psycho, you know?
He was like- Mm-hmm … completely
off his rocker, you know, pooping
on himself and doing all this stuff.
And, a- and you wonder why they lost.
They had no leadership.
Right.
You know, whereas with Henry V, and,
and I don't agree with everything
Henry V did either, however, he was
a good leader at Agincourt and, and
some of the other times that he was
asked to, to really step up and lead.
So, you know, that's how that, that's
how something like that comes about.
So I guess, you know, w- going to
back where the original question
was, I'm tr- I'm trying to finish
well, and I feel like helping people
is better than hurting people.
Mm. When we put out that, if we put
out something on social media, we
try to be positive even though…
You know, we just put out some,
we've been putting out these little
videos lately, and we've been getting
a lot of really positive feedback.
I've seen that.
And it's hard, it's hard for my
wife because she's like, "You're
talking about these Marines eating
crayons. That's just not nice." Dude,
I got a picture of my buddy today.
He said, "I love- Eating
crayons.
Yeah, and he's eating crayons,
and here's what's crazy about it.
He sends me this picture.
I don't know if you can actually see
this, but he's got a mouthful of crayons.
Now, here's what's-
Yep … crazy about that.
He's in dress uniform.
Mm-hmm.
He has a purple heart,
he has a bronze star with
V, and he has a silver star.
Mm.
This guy's a war hero.
Mm-hmm.
And he is, he has his
mouth full of crayons.
It's hilarious.
So it's, you see, you know- It's
100% hilarious.
Yeah, and it's like, that's the
guy, that's like the guy, I want
him to know, like, I appreciate
Marines, and I really love…
I'm, I'm jealous of Marines because
they have that esprit de corps,
'cause they got a smaller element.
There's just a lot of cool-
Mm-hmm … things about Marines.
They got great history.
The Army's got great history
too, but we're so big.
Sure.
But
now my wife is starting to understand
that some of that, that tongue in cheek
humor that, that GIs use, it's, it's
good, and guys appreciate that, you know?
Yes.
So, so yeah, we've been doing a lot
of those little short videos lately.
We got more coming.
We're, we're, uh, we're gonna try
to give everybody a hard time.
In, in your poems, where, where are
you having those released or published?
'Cause I did a quick look, and
I couldn't find them anywhere.
They, none of them have been released.
Huh.
Yeah.
There you go.
None of them, none of
them have been released.
Um, I write them, and then I just
keep them for my own… I, I, I've,
I'm, I've actually thought about, uh,
releasing some of these, but we haven't.
We haven't done that yet.
You wanna hear one?
Yeah, 100%.
Let's
hear it.
So here's one I just, here's
one I just wrote on 5 July.
Okay.
And it's not completely, uh,
all spiffied up, but it's
called The Jagged Burning Teeth.
And I haven't rehearsed this, so I
might screw this up a little bit.
It's okay.
The jagged burning teeth
were tearing at his soul.
His back was hunched, his body
stiff, digging deeper in that hole.
They charged from all directions, yet
he knew not from whence they came.
Their growls, their barks, their tearing
teeth, no m- no man on earth could tame.
The claws are sharp as broken glass,
ripping meat right from the bone.
The man stood against the
beast, shoulder to shoulder with
his friends, but still alone.
The deep dark abyss of fear, the
waves slowly rising to suck him under.
The beasts continue their attacks,
their wings like the sound
of some evil rolling thunder.
How could God design a manner
befitting the devil by himself?
Or did Beelzebub have a hand at placing
this killing animal on the shelf?
The sigh of death cleaves and
cares not whose family you belong.
It cuts and ravages indiscriminately,
the iron sings the deathly song.
Men have always bared their
hearts to stand facing directly
their beloved country's foe.
They feel the passion, they feel
the pain, but with bravery they
meet this… But with bravery they
meet death standing toe-to-toe.
The man whose fame and fortune tied
to that satanic machine, I promise
he will go down below to visit all
the souls his death has ever seen.
Archers spread their terror
as they stood upon the field.
Men would gladly take an arrow, but
from artillery they would yield.
The unknowing devastation delivered
from miles and heavens above.
The sickly sweet and whining whistle,
the sound no soldier man would love.
Artillery is for cowards, no man
e- n- not man enough to fight.
They sleep in beds and eat their chow,
while trench-born soldiers fear the night.
Go the way of evil thus,
I ask the Lord in prayer.
Let the enemy attack as men, I
long to see them coming there.
I will fight knowing well
that death may come to knock.
Promise me no artillery fire and
I'll stand there like a rock.
When the sorcerer's hand points
at you, there is no place to hide.
The only way to stop the death
is God standing at your side.
So fear not the high explosives,
death metal in the air.
It is meant for y- If it is meant for
you, I promise that, the beast of death
in iron slang, it does not have a care.
Damn, Kyle.
That's good.
And you're not publishing these?
No, no, not yet.
So that one came about because
I was reading about, about
soldiers, and they were, they
were dealing with field artillery.
Hmm.
And they, like, they-
Like they didn't, like they don't
know where it's coming from.
They don't know when death
is… Like, it's not a man that
they're gonna fight against.
It's just coming and zapping them like
thunder and, you know, and the, you
just don't know who's gonna get hit.
And, uh, so that just, you
know, that, that inspired me.
Like I, I started out where
it's kinda like it's an animal.
Right, yes.
But then eventually it gets to, you know,
it's artillery and it scares the crap
out of dudes that are out there on the
battlefield, 'cause they just can't…
You can't defend against- Totally.
It's a nebulous
enemy.
Yeah.
You just can't.
There's no way to fight
Yeah, it's just a, it's, you know,
and that's what soldiers have been
doing for, for all these years, so.
Yeah, and I've got some that are funny.
I, I've, I wrote one
about baggage left behind.
Okay.
It's kind of a, um- A
double entendre?
You wanna hear that one real quick?
Sure.
I hate to, I hate to,
uh, bore you with my-
Hey, you're heard
it here first.
So here's, so here's what it's called.
It's called Baggage Left Behind.
I wrote this- Okay … in December of '24.
So I was reading, uh, The Great Divorce
by CS Lewis, and in the preface- Mm … he
mentions, "You cannot take all lu-
luggage with you on all of your journeys.
On one journey, even your right hand
and your right eye may be among the
things you have to leave behind."
Mm.
So this is written from
a soldier's perspective.
"I packed my canvas bags to be
loaded on the baggage train.
I tried to take only what I
needed, wanting not to be so vain.
A warrior's life should be simple,
with limited possessions in our
midst, so any frivolous parts of my
life were left there in the ditch.
It started out so tragically
simple, march until you can die.
Face the enemy with shoulders
square, praying on the
battlefield we would not lie.
We didn't carry anything
other than death and steel.
For those who thought for, for those who
thought for glory, this war has somehow
become real." My baggage is getting
lighter as I trudge along this path.
With every time I swing my
sword, I feel the enemy's wrath.
I lost a couple fingers when
I swung that hammer down.
I looked at the bludgy-
bloody missing digits.
I'll be honest, it made me frown.
I really only miss them when
I try to count past eight.
But as with gallows humors, I
don't have to carry so much weight.
Next to be abandoned that day when
the sun was high, an archer shot an
arrow and I caught it with my eye.
I must readily admit it
burnt like Hades fire.
I won't win any beauty pageants,
but that's not what I desire.
My mates will block the blows
that come from my left side.
If they don't cover my weakness, I
surely will take that heavenly ride.
I don't recall the day or hour
when my foot was cut in half.
It looks kinda like a side of pork,
making the old hardened warriors laugh.
Marching isn't easy for a man taking half
a stride, but since my brothers like the
way I fight, they make sure a mule I ride.
I can still shoot a bow with
accuracy and swing a sword 'til
death, but next to go I lost an arm.
I can imagine the holding of your breath.
It's only an arm, my poor friend.
An extra is hanging in the wings.
I don't lose, I didn't lose my voice
box yet, so during the march I sings.
Side-straddle hop is easy
for a man with all his parts.
I look like a little newborn colt
with jerks and fits and starts.
I'm actually pretty happy
since my tailor costs are half.
My coats have less material.
I hope that made you laugh.
Standing by the cooking fire, the
fighting hadn't reached our camp.
A cannonball came bouncing by.
That ball I tried to tramp.
Zipped right by below the knee.
There's no way it could be saved.
Buying shoes is twice as easy.
The need for a pair is waived.
So in the travels through a
soldier's life, if you lose some
baggage along the way, it won't
be the end of the world at all.
That is, if I have anything to say.
Get up e- get up each morning, then
face the east and feel that warming sun.
No matter how jacked up you are, a
soldier can always have some fun.
We came into this world with nothing,
now baggage stolen, baggage gone.
When we stand in front of our maker, all
our worldly claims will be withdrawn.
Don't feel sad, for I will persevere.
I have a mitten on my only hand.
I can still see clearly with one
good eye and on a wooden peg I stand.
So as a young man when I scrawled my
name and swore that lifelong pact-
I've lost lots of baggage along the
way, but my dignity is still intact.
I like that.
So all of those are actually from
history, you know, guys losing arms
or whatever, but the, like, the guy
kicking the cannonball, that's from
a book, Company H, which is a story
about the Civil War, and the guy that,
that wrote it, he, he's from, like,
30 miles from where we live here.
He, of course he's dead, but guys would
see a cannonball bouncing through and
they thought, "Oh, I'm gonna kick that."
Well, it's a cannonball.
Right.
They go to kick it and it'd
take their leg right off.
They'd try to grab it and it'd
take both hands off, you know?
So- Mm-hmm … it's, uh… Anyway,
that one I wrote for fun, 'cause
it's, you know, it's, it's that guy.
He's all jacked up, but he just keeps on-
… you know, he just keeps on going, so.
Huh.
That's, um, I, I'm trying
to remember the poet's name.
I think they call him the Bard of the
North, but it kind of reminds me of him.
He wrote The, The Quitter, and the,
um, I think it was a British fellow
who, who came over to the Yukon and,
uh, uh, his name slips me, but it's
a similar- Yeah … kind of a, uh, I
think you call it iambic pentameter.
Yeah, yeah.
Where-
Yeah, and Patton wrote a lot of stuff too.
I've got a book of poems that- Oh, did
he?
…
my buddy sent me that were wr- written by
Patton, and I'm not a big fan of Patton.
He, he just was kind of disappointing
in some of the stuff he did, but his
poetry is pretty dark, and my, my
poetry's pretty dark, so we get a,
we, we have that in common there.
I wrote, uh, I wrote one about World War
II and the paratroopers and everything,
and I read it to my buddies that we
all jumped into, to, uh, we jumped into
Normandy on the 80th anniversary together.
Hmm.
And I read that poem to them there
before we jumped, and one guy, one
of my buddies who had been my OTC
commander, or OTC, uh, instructor,
he's like, "Now, who wrote that?"
And I said, "Um, I wrote that."
And he's like, "You're kidding
me." So then he wanted that poem.
And I'm like, "Well, that's pretty
cool that he wants a copy of
that." So anyway, yeah, it's fun.
It's something just, it's just, you
know, it's something different to
do, but it's, it's, uh, if it lets
you relieve, get something out of
your head onto paper and then you
kind of forget about it, then it's a
positive, a positive thing, you know?
It's kind of, just kind of
like making knives or whatever.
You know how you get in that focus-
Mm-hmm … when you're making a
knife and- Yeah … you're not
thinking about anything but that, so.
That's right.
Well, it's also a bit of a window
into your mind and into the soul, and
it's, um, you know, like they say,
uh, like your books you put out, this
is a definite window into you, and
the, the Bible is a mirror, or can
be a mirror, some people will say.
Yeah.
And you, you're gonna read out of it
what you want to see and take out of
it what you want to take and, um- I,
I think it's an important thing to
do because it's, um, f- 'cause your
mission in this, y- like you were
saying before, just one person really.
It's just one person has to get it.
Yeah.
And if, and if everyone reads the same
thing and sees it in the same light
and in the same way, there's only
the certain people that are gonna…
it's gonna speak to.
When it mirrors you, I think you're gonna
all of a sudden you've got a following on
your own, you've got your own background,
you've got your own history and- Yeah.
Yep
…
your own Kyle-isms.
I, I don't know.
I, I think, uh, I, I think it's brave.
I think it's brave to put yourself
out there the way that you are.
Or stupid, one of the two.
There's a fine line between
bravery and stupidity.
I… Sure, I've heard that.
Um, I don't know.
I, I, I, I'll, I'll stick with brave.
You know, you mentioned something
before as well about, um, on your
reflection about, uh, you know, you,
you go out, you gotta be on when
you're doing the public thing, right?
The- there's an expectation of what
people wanna see, and then you come home.
What would the public think seeing
private Kyle, Kyle in private?
Um, but I guess you're getting a, a
reflect- a, a bit of a glimpse into
that through the, uh- Yeah, I don't-
… through the books and the poetry.
I,
I, I would… I, I disagree with that.
I, I… They don't, even in my writing,
they don't get to see- Not even
close?
…
the honesty.
Okay.
That's the thing, like- When
I c- when i- it, it's hard.
When I come back from teaching
a class, like, you're in charge.
Mm-hmm.
You're the guy.
They're there for you, and you're doing
this, and you're up there, and you're
doing it, and you come home, and it's
like, phew, you come down from that.
And it's not, sometimes it's not good.
Mm. It can be like, I can be in a grumpy
mood because I've been eating crappy
food at a, you know, I've been staying
in a hotel and eating crappy food.
Now I'm home, and I'm tired, and, and
I've been having to be on the whole
time, and now it's like- Mm … I just
wanna ch- I just, I just wanna sl- as
my buddy Johnny Dog would say, I just
wanna sit there and stare at a rock.
Mm. And, you know, just … So I would
say sometimes the … I have actually
given some of my worst in one of my books,
The Leadership in the Shadows, but then
luckily I have my wife that saved me from
myself, and she took five chapters, and
she red X'd the entire chapter and said-
Mm … "You were mad when you wrote this.
Rewrite those chapters.
Don't look at them.
Just rewrite them.
Don't, don't- Mm … don't use
any of that as a reference.
Just rewrite that chapter." And I wrote
them, and they are so much better now
than they were when I did it when I was
in that, kind of that funk, you know?
Mm.
But I think you have to get … You know,
and I think part of it, I do, you know,
enlighten people to some of that in here
that we all have those struggles, so- Sure
I wouldn't say it's not honest.
It's, it's pretty honest, but it's,
it's the darker, the darker sides I'm
not … I mean, I try to not expose that.
I'd like to not expose that to anybody.
And-
Mm
…
that's part of the reason I write poetry,
because I can be as dark as I want-
It-
…
with poetry … and it's
in, it's just poetry, right?
Yeah.
And that's, that's how
it actually started.
I had a really bad experience, and I made
it through it, and, uh, I wrote notes
about what happened, and I was like, I
just don't ever want this to happen again.
And that's the very first … I've
wrote some, I've done some scribbly
poems as a kid or whatever, you
know, just to be funny, but I wrote
that poem, and that one is hard.
That's hard still for me to read that one,
and I've let some people read it, or and
I've, I've read it to some people just
because they might be in that same, um-
They might be in that same funk, and
I want them to understand that I was
in that funk and now I'm past that.
Um, one night my buddy goes, "Yeah,
I, I w- I was talking to my buddy
about up at hunting camp, and he
said you read a couple poems."
And, uh, and he said, "A couple of those
soldiers said it was… It kinda tore
them up, you know?" Or Marines they were.
And I said, "Yeah." And he goes… I
said, "You wanna hear some?" And he goes,
"Yeah." So we, there's the four of us,
we all served together, and we get to
our hotel, and we sit down at a table
there in the lobby, and they get some
brown liquor, and I get a glass of water.
Mm-hmm.
And I read that poem to them, and
all three of those guys were crying.
Mm.
And I was like… And
Really, that opened up like a new chapter
with my friendship with those three guys.
And one of them, w- we already were
at that point, but the other two it
really… Like, I realized, like, they,
they are perceived as not having any
of those struggles when they are having
the exact same struggles I'm having.
Right.
And now we can honestly talk about
that more openly because now they all
know we're on the same sheet of music.
So-
So why are you holding, why are
you holding those poems back?
Like,
for me- It's not ready.
It's just, it's just not ready yet.
I mean, it's
Dude, there's some dark stuff, bro.
I get it.
But it's- I think we all
have dark thoughts, though.
I think we,
uh- Yeah.
Well, we do.
You know, and some of it
is… So I wrote one about the
darkness, the, the, the light.
Mm. So putting the light on
something, and we always… The,
the moral of the… Not the moral.
The gist of the poem is, like,
when I was in the military, we were
always putting a light on the evil.
We were putting the light on
these people, and we're…
And literally we're
putting a light on them.
Mm-hmm.
And we're, we're lighting them up so
that either we can, you know, shoot
or no shoot or, you know, whatever.
Mm-hmm.
But be- but in the darkness, the
evil was truly hiding, which was us.
Like, we're the evil- Mm-hmm … that's
out there doing this, because some
stuff we did was not good, you know?
And when I, after I wrote that, you
know, my wife, she, I told her that
poem, and she's like, "You know, you
did exactly what your country asked you
to do." You know, and that's the thing.
Th- that's true.
That's absolutely true, but that still
doesn't mean that I don't wanna reflect
on it and think, like, "If I was gonna
do that again, would I do things the
same way that I did them the first time?"
You know?
You, you can never step
in the same stream twice.
Yeah.
Yeah, you can't.
You're not the same man.
You're not the same stream.
It's not… But Nietzsche would have
something to say about that, too,
and the construct of good and evil.
Yeah.
It's, uh, um… And kinda
what, what we put on it.
I-
Well, and, and, and what, like, with,
with what he would say, and Jordan
Peterson would say is you can't have…
You can't be a good person unless
you have the ability to be evil.
That's right.
I believe in that 110%.
That, that's right.
Because if you're just some little
douchebag that- You're just weak … is,
like, pretending… Yeah, you're weak.
You can't do anything.
You know, the Bible says, um, "The
meek shall inherit the earth."
Meek and weak are not the same word.
Two different words, yeah.
Yeah,
and to me, meek is somebody that,
that carries a sword and knows
how to use it, but they decided
to keep it in the scabbard.
But watch out- Mm … when they
actually pull that joker out
and get, you know- … get busy.
So yeah, someday, someday… My wife
has been talking to me about trying to,
to do, to get some of these out, um-
I've written a b- I've, I've
written a, a, a bunch of poetry,
and it's, it's, uh, it's fun.
It's… Some are fun, some
are… You know, the ones I just
read you, they're kinda fun.
Sure.
They're kinda fun, fun poems, you know?
You know, it's… And they're not
all gonna be bangers for one person,
but I'm sure they're gonna be…
The different ones will speak to
different people in different ways.
I think if I was writing poetry like
that, uh, there would be a fear of,
uh, opening up too much, and having
people view in a little too deeply.
Yeah.
Um, and the wrong people, not
necessarily the right people,
getting in front of them.
Um, even with this podcast here, uh,
a, a lot of times I… You're probably
the same way, but I'm, I'm constrained.
I hold things back.
Yeah.
There's a lot of stories, there's a
lot of things I could share and tell,
but you don't, because you want to,
uh, juggle the, um, uh, the possible
impact that it might have and, uh,
and, and maybe if it's someone who's
just reconciling with yourself.
I'm trying to find one that w- that's kind
of… I wrote one one day just f- um…
Oh, my goodness, if I can find it here.
I'd love
to hear it- Oh, here we go
…
regardless.
Here we go.
I just found it.
Okay.
All right.
So I was joking with him and
I said… He goes, "Well, have
you written any limericks?"
I was gonna say, those are the only
poems I've ever written myself,
and they're not appropriate.
So this is the limerick that I wrote.
The darkest time is in the night, but
it's the day that brings me fright.
They're now clear and bring me fear,
please let the blackness take my sight.
Hmm.
I like that one.
That's a tough one.
If you really start to- Yeah … to
tear that apart, the darkest
time is in the night, but it's
the day that brings me fright.
That's true.
Mm-hmm.
They're now clear and bring me fear,
please let the blackness take my sight.
Mm-hmm.
And you can take that
however you wanna take it.
He said, he goes, "It's really good,
but I think they're supposed to make
you laugh." He goes, "That's the
darkest- He goes, "That's the darkest
fricking limerick I've ever read."
No, that… And how long did
that one take you to, to write?
Because, uh-
Probably about three weeks.
Yeah.
Okay.
I'd, I'd say so.
That's, uh, th- there's a lot packed
into a very small space on that one.
Yeah.
There's… I, I'm gonna read you… So
I'm gonna read you a, not a poem, but I'm
gonna read you the first page of a book,
'cause you always, you know, as a writer,
you wanna think, like, what's the…
how do… you know, like, what's
something that captures people?
Hmm.
This is the first… I'm gonna
tell you what book it is.
It's Lonesome Dove.
Okay.
You familiar with that?
No.
It's a Western.
I, I've heard of them,
but I haven't read it.
So it's Augustus, Augustus
McCrae and, and Captain Call,
and they're both former Rangers.
Okay.
And Rangers like, like Texas Rangers.
Yeah.
So this is the first sentence,
sentence in that book.
"When Augustus came out on the
porch, the blue pigs were eating a
rattlesnake. Not a very big one."
Isn't that a great…
Like, that's one line.
That's a good way to start
it, eh?
Like, y- like, that's… And he
could've stopped right there.
He had me.
I was like, that's a
great- Yeah … you know.
That's just a great-
But- … a great read there.
So-
Yeah, it just paint, paints a picture.
It sets an expectation.
It conveys a lot of
information, very short.
Yeah.
Okay.
So we… That's one of the things, um…
I don't know if we talked about this
on the last podcast or not, but I have
never read… No, let me rephrase that.
I've read one Stephen King book.
Mm. And it's his book called On Writing.
Oh, okay.
And I got a lot out of that.
I've never read any of his other stuff.
I just don't think I would like it.
It's, it's way too dark for…
I mean- I got enough dark stuff.
I don't need to add to that.
Sure.
You know?
Mm-hmm.
But one of the things he said in that
book was that your manuscript, when you
go through it the first time, you know,
to- your first scrub of it, you should
try to take 10 to 20% out of that.
And I was like, "No,
man, that's your book.
Like, that's your book.
You don't wanna get…
Like, you put it in there.
You don't wanna take… You just don't
wanna take it away." Well, you take
10 to 20% out that doesn't need to
be there, you clarify your writing by
getting rid of a lot of adjectives,
and you still end up with a book that's
432 pages long.
You know what I'm saying?
Like, there- Yeah … this, this has
been refined down and down and down
and down to where it's, it's… I'm
trying to say, just say what needs to
be said and not all the other, like,
a lot of fluffy stuff there, you know?
Well, like your limerick there, there's
a lot that can be said in short words,
and the mind will fill in the blanks.
And then when it's spoon-fed to a
person, it gets a little, um, pedantic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
When it's short, it's, uh, uh, it,
it allows for interpretation, just
like if somebody looking at art
or listening to one of your poems-
Yeah … or reading one of your poems.
Have you ever heard of the Hemingway App?
No.
I know Hemingway, but
not the Hemingway App
Yeah, so I'm not a…
I would, I would say I'm probably
not a huge Ernest Hemingway fan.
I'm just not.
I, I- Sure … have read, not all of
his stuff, but m- most of his stuff.
I like the idea of fishing through the
sawtooths in a romantic sort of way,
uh, w- like- Yeah … Hemingway did.
But aside from that, the, uh-
Well, I think- … uh, the other side
I mean, I, I think maybe the reason
I, I struggle with Hemingway is
because of his personal life versus-
Mm-hmm … his, he, the writing.
But w- whatever.
There's an app called the
Hemingway App, and there's another
app- Okay … called Scrivener.
So I write on Scrivener-
Okay … because Scrivener allows
me to quickly move stuff, and it's,
it's just a very good writing app.
And then when you get to a certain
point, we have to go to Word because
Word allows us to, uh, make changes,
accept changes, and do all that stuff.
So there's kind of a
process that I follow.
I go from Scrivener, once it's to
a certain point and I'm gonna start
doing the editing process with my
wife, then it goes to Word, and then
we start that back and forth, um,
with the Word document until we- Hmm
get it right, and then it's accepted,
and then it moves into another stack.
Then it goes to the actual editor, who's a
former, uh, command sergeant major, Kevin
Dorsch, and he does the editing work.
So this app called the Hemingway App,
if you, if you get that app, what's
really cool about it is you just
take your writing and you drop it
into the Hemingway App and it'll tell
you, it, it will grade your writing.
Now- Oh, okay … it doesn't give
you l- like an A plus, B minus.
It doesn't do anything like that.
What it does is it'll say, "Too
many adjectives," and it'll, and
it'll highlight all the adjectives.
And then you go- Oh … through and
you start, like, "What happens if I
take… I've got 20 adjectives here.
What if I take 15 of those out?"
Hmm.
Man, your writing becomes better.
Interesting.
And most… So it's, it's an, it's a, it's
an interesting way to… And I don't use
it, like, I don't drop everything in there
to see how I'm writing, but I, I've done a
lot of that because I'll write something,
I'm like, "Well, how is, how am I doing?"
Mm-hmm.
And I'll drop it in there.
Oh, and then it'll also tell you
what grade level you're writing on.
So-
Interesting.
So what, what-
What grade level does a good
l- a writer want to write at?
Um, it depends on who your customer is.
Okay.
So for me, I would say as a, as a
writer trying to reach military and law
enforcement people, I probably wanna
write on a sixth grade or below level.
And I, generally do.
Like, I just generally… And that's
not, that's not a mean thing to say.
No,
I
get it.
That's,
that's reading that every
person that has- Keep it
simple
…
an eighth grade education should
be able to read this book.
And now there are some big words
in here they might have to, you
know, they might have to look up.
But… Well, seriously, you know, you
read something like a Jordan Peterson
book, you're gonna be like, "What in
the heck is he talking about?" Or maybe-
Yeah … a Winston, a Winston Churchill
book because he's using some English
words that we may not use as much anymore.
Um- Yeah,
they're quite loquacious.
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Or a, a coquette, you know, like
if you read- Yeah, sure … yeah,
if you read something w- written by
Washington Irving, you're gonna be
looking in the dictionary all day long.
And it's awesome writing,
like, it's spectacular writing.
It actually makes you a better writer
because now you can- Mm … the
way that you do descriptions is
gonna be a little bit better.
But, but when I put it in there and I see
that I'm writing at a fifth grade level,
sixth grade level, fourth grade level,
whatever, at first that kinda bothered me.
And then I took- Ah … a speech
that President Obama gave.
Hmm.
And I dropped it in there.
I know where this is going.
And he's speaking at, like, level 13.
Okay.
So who's he communicating with, bro?
Like r- who's he trying to talk to?
'Cause he ain't talking to me.
Yeah.
He ain't talking to anybody that,
that I served with in the military.
He's not talking to any of the ranchers in
South Dakota or the farmers in Wisconsin.
Who's he talking to?
'Cause he's, he, he's, he's, he's, he's-
Talking to himself.
I mean, the, there's a part of that that
intellectuals like to be heard and they
like to, um, impress others with their,
uh, their vocabulary and verbiage and-
Yeah, so you see my point there.
My point is- Yeah … he, he was sp- he
was speaking at a, a, a, a college level.
Mm-hmm.
And when I just went through
that speech, I'm like, "I don't
even know what this word means."
So, so if I'm- Hmm … out there
getting, getting spoken to, you're
not gonna have a dictionary and be
going through a dictionary while
you're listening to a speech.
Right.
Yeah.
When you're reading a book you might,
because there's gonna be books, certain
books that you're gonna read that
you're gonna have to use a dictionary
just 'cause that's the way it is.
Um, but when you read a book like, uh,
say a Jack Carr thriller or- Hmm … a
Jason Casper thriller- You probably
don't have to get out a dictionary.
Now, you may wanna get on the
internet 'cause you wanna find out
what gun or watch- Sure … or car
or whatever they're talking about.
Sure.
But, but their English is clear and it's
written so that, that they'll understand.
Now, I've had some people that
are, that, that they wanna use big
words, and I tell you what's really
hilarious, I, I know a lot of words.
Sure.
And I've looked up a lot of those words.
In more than one language.
Yeah.
And I, I've called out some of these
guys, I'm like, "What does that
mean? What does that word mean?"
And they look at me, they're like…
I don't know.
Uh, well, oh, so you just used a word
you don't even know what it means.
Uh-huh.
You know, like us- you us- you
u- you use the word pedantic.
Right.
So what does that mean to you?
Uh, da, da, da, da, da, da, da.
Okay.
It's, um, talking down to somebody, you're
telling them something in a repetitive-
So does that f- come
from the word pedagogy?
I don't know.
Uh- I'm just asking.
No, I, the, what's the etymology of it?
I don't know.
Maybe.
That'd be an interesting one to look up.
There you go.
There's your etymology.
Okay.
So let's look, let's look this up.
'Cause this is, sometime this is fun.
Yeah.
Do you ever use AI?
I
try not to.
Yeah.
Because AI is usually wrong.
It depends what you're
re- you're researching.
If you wanna research, like, the weight of
something or, um… I'm trying to think.
Like-
Something maybe from, from modern history.
Mm. But I think if you get into like…
I, I've, I have used it to try to
research some stuff, and I've gotten
back stuff that's so crazy that I…
that it's like, okay, I can't use
it for… Like, I can't use it for,
for Bible stuff because it's, it'll
give me completely wrong stuff.
Yeah.
It's… What's interesting on the
Bible stuff, it's, uh, and, and maybe
it's updated and it's more advanced
now, but it's, uh, it's biased.
It's- Sure … it's very… You got it?
I got it.
Okay.
So, so remember what my question was,
is it, is it, is it tied to pedagogy?
Pe-
right.
How would you say that?
The act of
teaching and-
Right … so,
relaying information.
Pedant, schoolmaster, person
who, uh, overrates book learning.
Okay.
Uh, pedant, of obscure origin.
The first, uh, is presumably
that of pedagogy, to which- Ah
has been added the
preposition ending anti or ant
Uh, pedant direct from it, hence pedantic
So that's why I ask you that.
Like- Yeah … so, so when you said
it's like this, d- d- d- d- d-, what
that means- Yeah … to me is, like when
you're teaching, it's d- d- d- d- d- d-.
It is- Yeah … 'cause it's like
you do it over and over and over
and over and over and over, right?
Right.
That's how
you teach.
So when I heard that word, like,
eh, my kids taught me this.
Like the, like you hear a word, like
what's the root word, and then- Mm-hmm
… how you can get back to it, and right
there, pedantic goes back to pedant.
I never heard the word pedant.
Right.
And then, uh, pedagogy, which is
obviously, you know, talking about- Yeah
teachers as well.
Um, just isn't that interesting?
Yeah.
Okay, and y- and you nailed it right on
the head, too, of, uh, where it came from.
Okay, what about loquacious?
Where does loquacious come from?
We're about to find out.
Call me out on the words
I'm using.
People are gonna be like,
"What are we…" What I should
probably a- ask you first is-
What do I think it is?
How do you spell it?
Let me see.
L-O-C-O-U, right?
Is it L-O-C or is it L-O… I guess
loco, but I thought it was L-O-Q-U.
Loquacious, but-
See, that's why you're, that's why
you're Canadian and I'm American.
Let's see.
Yeah,
we use the metric system for our spelling.
I actually won the spelling bee when
I was a kid, but I give up after that.
L-O- Q-U-A-C-I-O-U-S Okay, loquacious.
Talking much.
Yeah.
So it's Latin.
Okay.
Lo- loquaci, loquatics, loqui.
See locution and loquacious.
See locacity, or however you say that.
Locacity, something like that.
Okay.
Loquacious.
So it's Latin- Huh
I did a, uh, I, I did
see Jordan Peterson live.
He was at an event, and I think it was
Sam Harris that he was talking with.
And, uh, I left halfway through.
I mean, it was an interesting thing,
but you couldn't follow these people.
They were, um… It was just a
word salad at a certain point.
It was each one- Yeah
trying to impress the other side
back, and it was just like…
I, I had free tickets to it.
I was thankful for the tickets, but
the, I, I just wasn't following it.
So, so part of that is, this is my
opinion on that, if you listen to
Jordan Peterson a bunch, you're gonna
start to understand all of… You'll,
you'll understand the 20 words that he
uses over and over and over and over.
Mm.
Or maybe it's 50 words or whatever.
Sure.
So you've gotta learn 50 different words
to listen to Jordan Peterson speak and
understand what he's talking about.
Mm.
Every writer, I think,
does the same thing.
It's just that, like, like say, um,
like Teddy Roosevelt for example.
So Teddy Roosevelt, obviously
one of our presidents, but he was
also a, a great writer, but his
writing was made for guys like us.
It wasn't made for- Mm. It just
wasn't made for s- anybody that
was real highfalutin, you know?
Um, one of the words that he,
that he preferred to use was, um
Oh, I gotta think of it now.
When a river turns and it
leaves that sediment, um-
The, the silt?
The, um-
Yeah, like the silt.
It's, um, v- uh, alluvial
Alluvial, yes.
Yeah.
The
alluvial plains.
So all- alluvial plain or
alluvium is what that is called.
Right.
So, like, in my book, I put that in
there because I wanted- That's a,
that is a word I give credit to for
T-
Teddy Roosevelt.
Interesting.
And once you start reading his
books, you're gonna see that,
that word will be in every book
he's written, I promise you that.
And that's like- You know what?
… not a word, it's, it's not a word that
really, you know, it fits with what
he's writing about, 'cause he's gonna
put it, if they're talking about a
stream, "Well, we went down there to
the, we're in the alluvium on the cor-
you know, the corner of this stream"-
Mm … or whatever, the alluvium
soil or- But no one talks like that.
Not really, no.
You know?
Yeah.
So anyway, I just, I, I
think it's, I, I, I just-
I, I was reading a book by a, a guy,
I can't remember the guy's name,
but he talked about, you know, the,
the history of the English language.
And what's really interesting about
that is where the words come from.
So are they Saxon?
Are they Latinate?
And that's one thing- Hmm … I
didn't understand either.
But then when you start to look at
words, if, if you have two words…
So, uh, so let's talk about cow.
Is cow Saxon or is it Latinate?
Uh, I'm gonna go Saxon,
and I'm just guessing here.
Well, y- okay, because what
is the other word for cow?
Bovine.
I… Right, yeah.
See what I mean?
Like, it totally makes sense.
Like, it's, it's Latinate is bovine.
Yeah, yeah.
Equine would be horse in Latin.
Yeah.
Not in Latin, but Latinate.
So the, the- Yeah … the root of the word
equine is Latin, whereas horse is Saxon.
Right.
Servant,
bovid.
So you can
start… Right.
Yeah.
And, and, a- and almost every word
that's in the English language has a
Saxon word and a Latinate word- Hmm
for the same meaning.
Which- Interesting.
I never, never once thought about that.
It's really, to me, it's
really intriguing though.
Yeah.
It really is, because it's our history.
It's the… You know, if you've, if
you read, uh, there's a four-book
series by Churchill called The History
of the English-Speaking Peoples.
Okay.
And it seems like it would
be tough to read, 'cause each
book is, like, this thick.
Hmm.
But it's a, just a breeze to read
because it's, it's all of our history,
and whether it's your history, American
history, English history, it's the
history of English-speaking peoples.
Hmm.
So it's every, it's all of us-
'cause we speak English.
So it's, it's-
And it's, I, I, I think that's, it's
powerful in a sense that the more
you're able to articulate something or
put words on something, uh, the more
power that you have over that thing.
Uh, if there's, let's say something
you're afraid of, and it's nebulous, and
you can't touch it, and there's- Yeah
it's out there.
But the second you say, "Oh, I know what
that is, and I can put my finger on it,"
all of a sudden I can start defining it.
I put a word on it.
I can, I can examine that, and I can say,
"I, I know solutions for this. I know
ways to kind of, uh, quell my fear and
to, uh, because I know what that is." And
to me, that, that's the, um, that's why I
like to learn things, and I like to- Yeah
to learn the etymology of things and the
words behind it because without that,
I'm just, I'll, I'll feel something or…
And you're also missing out on so much in
life if you can't have a word for that.
Yeah, and I think if you look
at, at, uh, my wife and I were
laughing about this this weekend.
We were, we were flying, and I said, "I
think Shakespeare come up with that."
And she's like, "What?" I
said, "Yeah, like alligator.
He come up with alligator."
She's like, "Well …" Did he?
So we looked… Yeah.
He, the, the stuff that that bro came
up with, it's, it's crazy, the words-
… that he made up, like alligator.
You know what I'm saying?
Hmm.
Like, we use- Mm-hmm … that
com- it's just a common word now.
And- It's an alligator, yeah
…
and there's, there's, I don't know if
it's 100 different things, but it's,
it's a lot that he came up with phrases
that came from… It, it's, it's, it's
just really intriguing that a writer,
he was nothing but a writer dude.
He just told stories.
And- Hmm … and now everybody uses
the, the words that that writer made up.
Without even knowing it.
Oh, no, well, oh yeah, we do
it without even knowing it.
Yeah.
But if, but if you do a, if you
do a quick, um… I'm gonna give
you a couple 'cause then you'll,
you'll, you'll understand exactly.
So here's just a few of them.
Break the ice, wild goose chase.
Those are Shakespeare?
Heart… Yeah.
Heart of gold.
Um- In a pickle, green-eyed monster,
bedazzled, lonely, eyeball, swagger
Lonely
Lonely, being without
companions or isolated from-
Yeah
…
Coriolanus was the, in that one.
Midsummer's Night, he used the term
eyeball, the sphere of the eye.
Okay.
Swagger, to walk or behave in an arrogant
way, from A Midsummer's Night's Dream.
I would have not pinned
those on Shakespeare.
I just think it's, it's, it's crazy.
Um, we've seen better days, too much
of a good thing, neither rhyme nor
reason, I have not slept one wink.
Hmm.
Cruel to be kind, the clothes make a man.
Um, it's Greek to me.
Anyway, it's It's, I, I just
think it's really intriguing
You know, I was asked to be on a podcast
a few weeks ago, and it was, uh, the
podcast is called The Collective.
Uh, Sean Taylor and Chance
Burles, and Sean's ex- uh JTF2,
and Chance is a, um, a sapper.
And the two of them, they talk about
different things, and they've done a lot.
They've done a lot of podcasts, and the
topic was, uh, guilt and feeling guilty.
And I said, "Well, what do you mean?
You wanna talk about guilt?" Like,
and they just wanted to expand on what
that looks like, and it's like, "You
know, when you're out and s- people
feel guilty that they're not out doing
something or they feel guilty that…"
And I said, "Well, hold on a second.
Like, let's explain this.
Explain it to me a bit more because to
me, guilty is like you're guilty, right?
You've done something wrong, and you're
guilty." And anyways, through the
process of this podcast, we learned
that the word that I associated with
guilt affects how I deal with guilt.
I said, "I don't know if I've
actually felt guilt." Like if
some- if I do something, I'm I,
I'm slow to, uh, process emotion.
Like I- Yeah … compartmentalize.
I, I don't get excited in the moment.
I'll be happy.
I'll be excited afterwards.
There's plenty of time for that.
Yeah.
I'm slow to process, and then
I'm fast to problem solve.
So there's this whole delay buffer
where other people apparently feel
guilt, and I don't know if it's, I
don't know if it's just a wiring thing,
but to me, I think it's because I've
always associated guilty with a certain
word, and maybe I've, I've filled
different, uh, emotions and feelings
with different words or something.
But I've never felt guilty apparently,
uh, in the sense that they were
talking about it, and that, I think,
comes down to how we use words.
That's really interesting, yeah.
Yeah.
Well, either that or maybe I'm
just a little, little different,
but o- one or the other.
Um, but I, I was having a hard
time trying to understand what
they meant by that feeling.
Like if I do something wrong, I
make amends and I atone for it.
If I've, uh, I don't have
the feeling of guilt.
Do you feel guilt?
I think I do.
Okay.
But I think I, I, I, yeah, I
probably might put that in a
different terminology as well.
Hmm.
I don't know.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna, y- now you're gonna
make me think about this for a while.
Yeah, I'm gonna have to, I might have
to get back with you on that one.
O- okay, sure.
Yeah.
And, and that was one that's, 'cause one
of the people, 'cause they have people
that can chime in on this podcast,
they can write something in, and they
said, "Well, what about psychopathy?
I mean, like, maybe there's, um, s- or
sociopathy or whatever is, is that a part
of maybe why you're not feeling guilt?"
I'm like, "No.
No, I don't think so because I care about
people and I care about things and-" And
all the rest, but compartmentalization
and, you know, even when people talk
about things like psychopathy or
sociopathy, uh, it's got a negative
connotation towards it, whereas a tier
one operator would be well-served to be
able to process emotions differently.
Same with a judge or a, uh, surgeon.
Yeah.
I mean, if they're breaking down after
every, uh, every lost patient or every
person they're having to put behind bars,
then, um, uh, maybe they wouldn't be
too good at their role.
But I also, I also think that training has
a large, ha- plays a large part in that.
Okay.
You know, like for, for the guys you're
talking about, you know, those guys,
they have, they've trained and trained
and trained and trained and trained and
trained to where it becomes they're,
they're just repeating a process.
Mm.
Now that process involves instead
of shooting a paper target,
they're shooting a person.
Mm.
Okay, yeah, that's a jump.
It definitely is, but it's an easier jump
for them than it is for somebody that's
never trained to shoot a target, now all
of a sudden they're shooting a person.
Right.
So I think that, you know…
Yeah, I hope we're not all psycho.
Well, I don't know.
I don't think it's a bad thing, honestly.
I think criminal
psychopathy is a bad thing.
Uh, but I, but I think the way that people
process emotions, you need different,
you need the people that really feel
because they're the ones that are gonna
be able to be the canary in the cage when
things are going wrong, and they're the
ones who are gonna be able to identify
those who can't help themselves and
need help in a, in a split second.
And you need those people who can, uh,
make pragmatic, analytical decisions
in the moment as well, without being
overwhelmed by all that feeling.
I, I don't think it's
necessarily a bad thing, but…
Yeah, but I wouldn't call that psycho.
No, but I think a lot of people do.
I, and, and I-
Yeah, I think they're,
I think they're wrong.
I think they're completely wrong.
I think it's called being professional.
You're pro- Mm … you're a
professional in, in that environment.
Mm.
That's what's required of a
professional, is to act a certain way.
Now, that doesn't mean at the end of the
day that a cop doesn't go home and cry-
Sure … or feel sad or have emotion.
If that- Mm … you know, if a
cop or a military guy just, like,
never, ever feels anything, then
they probably got a problem.
But- I agree … if, if you-
You know, if you go to where an IED
has just been blowing up and you
see a bunch of women and children
that are, that are in bad shape-
Mm-hmm
…
if that doesn't eventually, like, bother
you or- Then there's something wrong
create emotion, I think there might
be something a little twisted, you
know- I agree … in your brain.
And I would also say, you know,
guys will say, "Well, you know,
oh, this guy probably tortured
animals as a kid." Well, there's one
thing to torture animals as a kid.
There's another thing that if
you keep torturing animals when
you're, you know, 25 years old-
Hmm
then I think, you know, when kids have a
curiosity, they wanna, they're, they're
gonna do something, 'cause they just
wanna see, like, what the outcome is.
Right.
I don't know that they're
going- They might not
fully ex- understand the-
Yeah, they're, they're- … consequence
… they may or may not be malicious.
But if- Hmm
you're, you know, 30 years old and you're
malicious about how you treat an animal,
then that's, you know, that's a problem.
I think that, um… And I think
it's difference between… I'm not a
psychologist obviously, but I think
it's, it's, it, it kinda has to be
different between men and women.
Men need to act, men don't need
to act a certain way, they're
built to act a certain way.
Right.
And I think, you know, you talk about
your, your teacher there that, that
let you set up your chemistry set.
Obviously that was… Was that a man?
Yes, it was.
And-
It sure was.
And when I was- It was
my first male teacher
…
when I was a kid, I had a teacher that was
Mr. Kaetinger, or… Oh, Mr. Kaetinger.
I had Mrs.
Kaetinger.
She was my favorite teacher ever.
Mr.- Yeah … Kinder was a male
teacher- Okay … and he taught English.
Uh, he, he did, um, public speaking.
And I just, I loved this guy.
He… Like, I was gonna be this
hillbilly in this show- … and I'm
like, "Well, it'd be better if you had,
like, a black powder rifle," 'cause
that's what that guy would carry.
And he goes, "Well, if you can get
a black powder rifle, bring it in
here and we'll use it in the show."
So I brought my black powder rifle-
Amazing … in school and did, I was the
hillbilly in this whatever, you know?
So we had this kid in- Amazing … we had
a kid in our class that he, he had to,
he had to be in this class, and he was
always a little dirty because he rode a
motorcycle all the time, like a dirt bike.
Hmm.
So he always had kinda dirty fingers,
'cause he, you know, we all did.
We were all farm kids.
But he was just- Hmm … a
little bit extra dirty.
A little extra.
A little extra greasy.
And he didn't really talk to anybody,
and he's telling Mr. Kinder, he's
like… Mr. Kinder goes, "Well, do a
speech, whatever you wanna speak about."
And he goes, "Well, I don't know what
to speak about." And he goes, "What do
you like to do?" And he goes, "I like
to ride my motorcycle." He goes, "Well,
then do something about your motorcycle."
Hmm.
"
What do you do with your motorcycle
that you could teach everybody?"
Change in oil He goes, "Well, teach us
how to change oil on your motorcycle."
Mm.
"
How am I gonna do that?" And he
goes, "You're gonna bring your
motorcycle into the classroom and
you're gonna show us how to do it."
And I bet he was pleased as anything.
He could-
This kid was like-
…
he can share something
he's passionate about
…
totally stoked.
Mm.
We were all stoked because we're
seeing this guy act a d- a, he,
we'd never seen him excited.
We'd never seen him happy.
We've never seen him- It's
contagious … like engage with people.
He, he, he brought his motorcycle in
the school, which was awesome - Yep
…
and
pushed it down the hallway, and
pushed it into Mr. Kinder's class,
and he gave that, that class on it.
And, you know, how many teachers would've
been like, "No, you can't do that.
No, you can't."
Right.
"
Do something else." Get, you know,
d- it's like, come on, man, you know?
Right.
Do something that really… If, if you
wanna inspire people to greatness, you've,
you've gotta let them kinda pick what that
greatness is gonna be, I think, you know?
As much as you're talking about Patton
there earlier, he did have that one
quote which I do like, "Don't tell a
man how to do something, tell him what
you wanna see accomplished and let
him surprise you with the results."
And that's- Yeah … one thing that I…
Yeah, and in the military we call
that commander's intent, you know?
That's, that's literally, that is…
What he said right there is, is basic-
it's not exactly, but if you looked
in a military manual, manual what
commander's intent is, it's what you
want- Mm … the end state to be.
It's not how you want them to
get there, it's what you h- want
completed at the end of the day.
Right.
Or at the end of the mission,
or at the end of the tour of
duty, or whatever it might be.
So yeah, I agree with that 100%.
You, you inspire people to greatness
be- by letting them be part of
that planning how to execute that
mission, not giving them every…
You know, if you wanna micromanage,
you can get the job done, but it's
not gonna be as good as if you said,
"I'm gonna give you this mission.
I'm gonna give you my guidance. I'm
gonna give you my commander's intent,
and then I'm gonna step back and I'm
gonna supervise." And supervising
is different than micromanaging.
Supervising- Right … is
what a leader does.
Micromanaging is what somebody does
that's not sure of themself, you know?
Mm-hmm.
They, they don't, they, they're
not sure enough of their people and
themselves to trust them to do just,
"You guys go do the job." Now, I
gotta be inc- involved with this.
That's what supervision is.
Mm-hmm.
So.
Yeah, I think, I think a lotta people
have a difficult time with that.
I know, like, having staff on, I
will, I will say the Patton thing.
I'll say, "Lookit, I'm not gonna
tell you how to do something.
Uh, I'll let you know what
I'd like to see accomplished.
You can surprise me with the results.
Make sure it's legal.
Make sure it's ethical.
Don't surprise me in ways that
aren't legal and ethical when
you get to the results." Yeah.
Right?
Uh, I'm not leaving you out in the wind.
You're, you're here to,
uh, you've got support.
Ask for it.
I don't wanna micromanage you.
Some people thrive.
Other people, they don't know what
to do in a situation like that,
and they start falling apart.
And it took me a while to realize we
have to find a different place for those
people Yeah and, and just bring it-
Well, either you mentor them up and you,
you, you work with them and, and inspire
them just like he did with that kid.
Hmm.
You find what they're good at,
and you put them… Like you said,
you're gonna find another spot.
That doesn't mean that we hide them
away, but put them in a spot where
their greatness can be brought-
Right
…
you know, it can be- That's
right
…
ripened and brought right
to the surface, you know?
So- Yeah.
No, that's good.
Well, um, if people wanna get
this book, I got mine on Amazon.
I think they can get signed copies
right from your website, can they?
Yeah, and so just so you know, the
copies- Yeah … are slightly different.
Okay.
So this copy, I'm gonna try to… I don't
know if you can see it, but there's a-
Uh-huh … there's a raised, this dagger-
Oh, mine's not raised
…
is raised, and so is the cross.
Yeah.
No, mine's not raised.
Yeah.
So you're telling me I
gotta buy another one.
So this, this one is printed, uh,
by Tramping the Hurdle Publishing.
That's us.
And these are available from the
Viking Tactics website if you put
a note that you want me to sign it.
Or if you want it personalized
to somebody, you can do
that, and I'll do that.
If you wanna get it fast and not
pay shipping, then go to Amazon
because it's actually gonna save
you some money if you go to Amazon,
but then I can't, I can't sign them.
Mm-hmm.
Uh, one thing I do wanna
explain, it costs $27.17.
If you look in the Bible- Okay … that
verse is iron sharpens iron.
Clever.
So it's- Very clever … it's,
uh, yeah, I, I really appreciate
you, you talking about this book.
This is, this is the hardest project
I've ever done as far as writing.
I thought Leadership in the Shadows was
tough, but this was even, even tougher.
And, uh, man, this took a long
time to write this daggone book.
Um, we actually left the
redactions in there, too.
I thought you'd- I saw
that … get a kick out of that.
Yeah.
I
saw that.
Yeah.
That's kind of interesting.
That's,
uh- Yeah, so the last book I wrote
there was just a couple and I, we
took 'em, took it completely out.
This one we left the redaction in there
so people know that I said something
that's classified behind that black mark.
And-
Yeah,
I thought that was a- … there's
no secret, is there's no secret
ink or anything that they can
wet it in to see what I said.
But it's, it's so stupid the
stuff they redacted, but we
did exactly what they said.
You know, and the other thing we did,
if you look inside of the front cover
of the book, it says, "No AI was
used to write this book," and then
the next mission was approved for
print by the unit February 12, 2026.
Mm-hmm.
So just so people know that if
anybody wants to say, "Oh, you gave
away all the secrets," it's like,
uh, there's no secrets in this book.
Yeah.
And by the way, the unit
approved it, and there you go.
So.
I love it.
I started doing this, this… I wanna
show you this 'cause it's kinda crazy.
So these are just a pair of sunglasses,
Leupold- Yeah … sunglasses.
These are kinda beat up, but
they're laying on my desk here.
So what I did was I added
the stickies inside.
Can you see those?
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
So those are just, you wet 'em and
you put 'em where you want 'em, and
then you can have regular sunglasses.
But if you look down, then you're
looking through your- Now you can
read.
Now I can read, you know, if I'm- And
what I like 'em for is when I'm out
on the range shooting and I wanna look
at my timer, I can see it clearly.
Okay.
If I wanna look at a screw,
I can see it clearly.
And then if I'm fishing, I can tie
on- Right … without, without taking
my glasses off and putting on a
set of reading glasses or whatever.
So.
That's clever.
Yeah, they work- Do you need 'em for
your front sight?
I use mostly a red dot nowadays.
But I- But I j- We'll see right there
my, my front sight is, is a little bit
fuzzy now, but not so bad that I can't
still shoot a, you know, regular iron
sights, but I shoot a red dot mostly.
You know- Okay … with the red dot
you're looking at the target anyway,
so it's, it works really good.
But, uh, yeah, it's
something worth trying.
My wife… These here are set up a
little bit high, but now the last ones
I did, I had them put them really low.
Hmm.
And they're just right, so if
I'm driving my truck and I look
down at anything, it's clear.
But if I look up, I don't get, I
don't have anything, you know, it,
they, it just, it works really well.
Well, I, he had a exploration vessel from
Norway come on over, and they contacted us
and they said, "Well, we have some rifles
you want, we want you to work on them for
us, and make sure they're good because
we're going up to the Arctic and we need
them for, uh, bear defense and the rest."
I'm like, "I don't wanna do it." Right?
I'm busy, I got all these other things.
And they said, "Okay, yeah,
sounds good." I'm like, "Ah, okay.
Well, I guess I'll do it then." So
anyways, I'm doing the work and part of
it making sure I'm sighting them in and
they look good. They had iron sights
on it, and I'm like, "What's going on?
Like, what's wrong with these sights?
Why can't… Why, why am I
having a hard time sight-
Yeah,
yeah.
Yeah.
What's wrong with the sights?
Yeah, that was me.
Yeah.
So,
uh-
Yep … I
got myself some-
I went in a couple months ago because
I f- I felt like my, my distance
vision was suffering a little bit
when I was shooting NRL Hunter.
I'm like, "I should be- Hmm … able
to see that clearer at distance without
looking through my binos or anything."
So I went in and they measured my, my
eyes and they said that I was 20/20.
Sure.
And I said, "Well-
Should be better
…
I used to be way better than what I
am right now." So they're like, "Okay.
Well, if you wanna go back to
what you were, we can do that."
So they put me- Hmm … at 20/13 with,
with, um, prescription… I, so I actually
took a set of… I, I do a lot of work
with Leupold, so I, I took- Yep … a,
uh, a set of Leupold glasses, and I- Gave
them to the lady here in Nashville, and
she popped the lenses out and she put her
lenses in there, and then my wife put the
stickies in there, and I'm set up now.
So, and I really like them, so now
I'm gonna have them make me a set of
sunglasses the same way so that I can-
Oh, that's smart … see really good at
distance, and then up close I'm just using
these stickies that are inside there.
And I put them on the inside, not on
the outside, 'cause on the inside- Right
then they don't create a glare.
And no one can tell what you're
doing and the rest, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, and I don't care if
people- They look, they look cool.
Yeah.
They, they… I don't care if
people know, but if you put them
on the outside, they catch a glare
when the sun hits the top of them.
Oh, okay.
If you put them inside,
you don't get a glare.
So you don't even, like, the…
You don't even notice them.
I mean, unless I do, like, some super,
super stupid shooting position under a
vehicle or- … something laid really
weird with my gun turned or… Th-
then I- Yeah … might notice it, but
usually I don't notice them at all.
So I really, I li- I like
them, and they're, like, 12
bucks or something on Amazon.
I,
I don't know if you can see all
the paperwork on my desk here.
I didn't even get into a fraction
of all the different things that
I'd put together, but I thoroughly,
thoroughly enjoyed this conversation.
I really- Well, you,
you let me know if you ever want, you
know, if, if… Y- you just call me up.
I really enjoy talking with
you, so if I can ever…
If you wanna continue the
conversation, you let me know.
Uh, I appreciate you reaching out to me.
I was super excited when you
said, "Hey, I, I got the book.
You gotta come on the podcast."
And I'm like, "All right, this is
awesome," 'cause a lot of people have
been, been, uh, giving us a hard time
about, you know, "When's it coming?
When's it coming?
When's it coming?" And now we put it
out- Mm … and, and we're getting a
bunch of orders, so it's really good.
Well, and likewise right back at you.
And the number of people who've
reached out to me and who've said that
they found great value in the last
podcast that we did together, as well
as the, uh, the year-end reflection.
So, um, uh, I appreciate you.
Thank you.
Yeah, for sure.
It's an honor to be on here with you.
I appreciate it.