4 The Drummers | Who's The G.O.A.T

4 The Drummers Podcast presents the ultimate debate, who is the greatest drummer of all time? In this episode, we break down the legends, the innovators, and the game-changers who have shaped drumming history. From technical mastery to pure groove, we discuss what makes a drummer truly GOAT status. Tune in as we analyze styles, influence, and impact, and let’s settle the debate once and for all!

What is 4 The Drummers ?

4 The Drummers is a podcast created by drummers, for drummers—designed to inspire, educate, and help drummers navigate the music industry. Featuring real conversations with top players, techs, and industry pros, we dive into everything from touring and gear to mindset and motivation. Whether you're a beginner or a seasoned pro, this podcast delivers valuable insights, stories, and advice to keep you pushing forward in your drumming journey.

STERLING: 00:00

What's up guys? Welcome to the first episode of For the Drummers Podcast. I'm your host, Sterling Whiteside, and I got my boy, Eric Lee with me. And we're just here, you know, to talk about everything drums related from gigs to stories, to gear, to experiences. And I think, you know, what better way to start it, you know, with my boy, Eric, man.

STERLING: 00:22

You know?

ERIC: 00:23

That's right.

STERLING: 00:23

So what do you wanna start with today?

ERIC: 00:27

I wanna know, because this is a common question amongst all drummers, really. Who's the GOAT? Who's the best to ever do it in the history of our instrument that we know and love?

STERLING: 00:42

So are we talking about, like, who's our GOAT or who's considered GOAT?

ERIC: 00:48

Obviously, it's subjective. Right? Yeah. I mean, you know, as long as you can make a case for it, as long as you can stand behind your opinion and give me reasons as to why you think it's this person. Otherwise, it's fair game.

STERLING: 01:04

So so you you give me your top three. I mean GOAT, like greatest of all time. You gotta remember that. That's what GOAT stands for. Greatest of all time.

ERIC: 01:15

Yeah. So for me, there's two that come to mind immediately.

STERLING: 01:19

That's crazy because I have two as well. Dave Wechel. Wow. And who's your second one?

ERIC: 01:24

Vinny Caliuda.

STERLING: 01:25

Okay. Alright. We we can agree on one of those, and, actually, Vinny could be my third.

ERIC: 01:31

I mean,

STERLING: 01:32

have But my second is Dennis. I would go Vinny. I would go Dave and Dennis. Dang. Because of the impact that Dennis had in the funk.

STERLING: 01:42

Sure. Parliament on to becoming a well renowned clinician on top of not just being I mean, he came up, you know, when was he 17 playing with parliament?

ERIC: 01:55

Yeah. I don't know.

STERLING: 01:56

You know, I think he was I think he was a teenager. Think he was still at home with mondukes and, you know, touring the world with one of the craziest and wildest funk bands in history. Yeah. And I think for me, why I say a dentist is because of the transition from going to being just a funk guy to being one of the goat clinicians to, you know, still doing it, you know, to a high level today. You know?

ERIC: 02:22

Yeah. And and amazingly, you know, he battled through all his health issues. Yeah. He's he's still going strong. So, yeah, I mean but my the the third one is tough because it's hard for me to not put in just my personal opinion Yeah.

ERIC: 02:38

Yeah. Which goes outside of

STERLING: 02:40

The goat conversation.

ERIC: 02:41

Right. Yeah. I mean, it's still up there,

STERLING: 02:44

but it So I got a question. Yeah. We have past goats, but then we have, like, guys that we consider the goats in this era.

ERIC: 02:53

Well, so that's not what goat means.

STERLING: 02:54

Yeah. But it it still can be because, like

ERIC: 02:59

Greatest of all time. All time. Well, times change. Or living.

STERLING: 03:03

Times change. Of course. Like, like, I would have to add Tony Williams in there.

ERIC: 03:07

Sure.

STERLING: 03:08

Because he was monumental to the jazz and to the way people play jazz. Absolutely. So that would be my third. I think I would go with, I think I would go with Tony as

ERIC: 03:16

my So who's your, your, your full three then? You got Weckle. Yep. Dennis. Yep.

ERIC: 03:21

And Tony.

STERLING: 03:21

Yeah. And I feel like it's not fair because it's so, so many, Oh, man. That goat conversation. Yeah. It's so many that are influential to the game, and then they're the ones that are into into influential to you.

STERLING: 03:37

Of course. And Of course. That's why I left it at, you know, Dave and Dennis because they were very Dave? Oh my god. Yeah.

STERLING: 03:46

Like, being 14 and my first time seeing back to the basics or what was it called? Back to basics?

ERIC: 03:53

I think so. Yeah.

STERLING: 03:54

That was my first time even realizing, like, I could put a rudiment into a groove.

ERIC: 03:58

Yeah.

STERLING: 03:59

Then I went, woah. Like, my whole my whole process of how I play drums changed.

ERIC: 04:05

Yeah. Like, you know, so So for you then, what what qualities are you looking for? What qualifies someone to be considered the GOAT? Let's say, take your personal opinion out of the the the the matter Yeah. And just look at you can't really say stats because we don't have stats.

STERLING: 04:23

It's kinda considered stats.

ERIC: 04:25

But just We're we're athletes, man.

STERLING: 04:28

We're drummers, but we're athletes.

ERIC: 04:30

It's true. But but what is it? What does it take to you? What does it take for a drummer to be considered to be put into that conversation?

STERLING: 04:38

First, you need stamina, strength. No. I'm just messing. Oh, man. Consistency, growth, impact.

STERLING: 04:49

Because one thing about both of those is they had consistency

ERIC: 04:53

Yeah.

STERLING: 04:53

Growth, and impact. Yeah. And outside of that, I mean, I don't know what else you're looking for when you're looking for a goat. Right. Like, those are the three because there's a lot of people that are consistent.

STERLING: 05:06

Yeah. They've been playing the same way Sure. A long time. Not saying that what the way they're playing is bad. Yeah.

STERLING: 05:14

But it hasn't it hasn't pushed me.

ERIC: 05:18

So I I think, to your point, I think I just figured out my third. Mhmm. Jojo Meyer.

STERLING: 05:23

Wow. See, that's why this conversation is crazy.

ERIC: 05:26

Because because to your point, that that growth I mean, you know, Weckle is my is my top. If I gotta put him up against anybody in a battle, so to speak, my money's on him. Right? So for the reason, I mean, he literally had that entire evolution series. Man.

ERIC: 05:41

You know? When he Impact. When I talked to him about it, he studied with Freddy Gruber, and he literally changed sticks. Right? You can see those burgundy sticks.

ERIC: 05:48

Yep. And then the evolution sticks, totally different model. He changed his whole feel, his technique. He just he evolved in the midst of him already being one of the top guys.

STERLING: 05:57

That He

ERIC: 05:58

was like, this isn't good enough. Let's do better.

STERLING: 06:00

And that and even with his cymbals, it changed the sound of how you played and what you were looking for as a drummer. Like Yeah. You were like, oh, and and and they were expensive for me back then, but not as much now. But Worth

ERIC: 06:13

it, though.

STERLING: 06:13

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

ERIC: 06:14

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, but but to that point, I think I put Jojo Mayer as my third because he was one of the, if not the, top jazz guy for a long time

STERLING: 06:24

Yeah.

ERIC: 06:25

As a as a younger dude. And then he kinda took a step back for a little bit. Yeah. And then when he came back, it was totally different style. He started doing that organic drum and bass stuff and the electronic thing.

STERLING: 06:36

Yeah. Two piece.

ERIC: 06:37

Trying to recreate electronic sounds but with acoustic drums. And, I mean

STERLING: 06:41

So I have a question for you. Yeah. Where do you put Benny?

ERIC: 06:46

See, that's that's where it's tough because Benny is my personal favorite.

STERLING: 06:50

I know. That's why I asked.

ERIC: 06:51

Yeah. So there's a there's a lot of aspects when we talk about qualifications.

STERLING: 06:57

He qualifies. Of course. And let me I don't mean to interrupt, but if I'm 17 right now

ERIC: 07:04

Mhmm.

STERLING: 07:05

Beanie would be my guy. Yeah. Like, he would be one of my top three.

ERIC: 07:09

So so one of the things in in

STERLING: 07:12

Let me say a reason why I say that before you guys chop me up in the comments. What I mean is I didn't grow up with Benny.

ERIC: 07:19

Yeah.

STERLING: 07:20

What I'm saying is with a 17 year old, he's gonna grow up with Benny. Eighteen year old

ERIC: 07:24

He's not that much older than us.

STERLING: 07:26

I know. That's what I mean. You know?

ERIC: 07:27

It's just I didn't I didn't find out about him until twenty sixteen? That's what I'm saying. Right? Yeah. And and at that point, it was it was a mind blower.

ERIC: 07:37

I knew about all these other people we've mentioned, you know, and I'd listen to him a ton. But then hearing him, it was like,

STERLING: 07:42

woah. That's how I felt.

ERIC: 07:43

On another level.

STERLING: 07:44

That's how I felt like hearing Chris Coleman.

ERIC: 07:45

Yeah.

STERLING: 07:46

When I seen him in person Yeah. I went, wait a

ERIC: 07:50

minute. Yeah.

STERLING: 07:51

I'm not I'm not practicing enough. Like, you know, him coming to AIM. Yeah. Yeah. And they let me get a chance to, you know, tech for him and set up for him and shout out to Chris Coleman too, because you were charging a certain amount for those, you know, one on one lessons, but I had a guy that that knew you and I was broke at that time.

STERLING: 08:15

I was eating a pizza. It lasted me three days. Like, I was taking a little Caesar's pizza. Yeah. And it would last me three days, but you allowed me to pay $20 for that lesson.

STERLING: 08:26

Shout out to you for that, man. That was really dope.

ERIC: 08:28

He's he's one of those things. He he was he was there when I was there too. He he came into the thing, and he just has that spirit about him. I think what makes him so fun to watch, so captivating as a drummer aside from just how talented he is is he's having fun. Dude.

ERIC: 08:44

You can see it on his face.

STERLING: 08:46

Dude, that is

ERIC: 08:47

Like, he he

STERLING: 08:49

He makes you

ERIC: 08:49

having an ego about it, you can tell that he loves how he sounds.

STERLING: 08:53

And he knows how he sounds. Yeah. And that's what I like about him. Like, he's it's basically the same thing you said. Like, you know, he's having fun, but he knows he's killing.

STERLING: 09:04

Yeah. Because he's took he's taken the time Yeah. To get to that levels to where it's fun.

ERIC: 09:10

Right. So instead of the top three, if we'd expand it one more, say, at Mount Rushmore, 4.

STERLING: 09:15

Oh, you're going to my Mount Rushmore.

ERIC: 09:17

Wreckle, Benny Woah. Jojo, and Benny. And how here's the thing. Here's why for me, why this those those guys. Three out of the four are also educators.

ERIC: 09:28

Okay. Weckle has a whole online school. Benny has put out many books. He does camps. Right?

ERIC: 09:35

Jojo has multiple DVDs and and books. Right? As far as I know, Vinny doesn't, but that's just because the man is is literally He didn't have to. Studio gig to to tour dates to studio. I mean Mount Rushmore.

ERIC: 09:47

Constant. So but for me

STERLING: 09:49

So we got

ERIC: 09:50

Being an educator is big because I've been teaching for ten, fifteen years now. Yeah. So these guys that obviously, their their skill level is top notch, but they're also so knowledgeable in what they're doing, they can break it down And share it. To a simple way and share it with other people, yeah, and help other people ex I mean, I don't know if you've looked at Benny's books. He wrote, like, a whole another language Mm-mm.

ERIC: 10:12

Didn't know that. Music. Yeah. Yeah. He's got, like, a whole system he set up specifically for drums.

STERLING: 10:17

I'm gonna need to borrow that.

ERIC: 10:18

It's, like, outside of of regular sheet music. It's it's I mean, the dude's brilliant. Right?

STERLING: 10:23

Yeah.

ERIC: 10:24

And you'd you'd think too, like, obviously, he's not lacking for gigs. Right? No. He's His phone's probably ringing off the hook, but he also loves it so much. He's like

STERLING: 10:32

He does his own thing.

ERIC: 10:33

Yeah. How do I how do help the next generation?

STERLING: 10:35

I think that's where we all wanna get to. I'm not gonna leave that conversation. We're gonna go back. So who are your Mountain Rushmore? And that's crazy you said Mountain Rushmore because that's what I ask people

ERIC: 10:45

Yeah. Yeah.

STERLING: 10:45

On my channel about the Mount Rushmore, and I've never had to answer this.

ERIC: 10:49

The the more the more we talk about it, though, I'm like, alright. If we instead of we start with top three and then four, if you said top five, my fifth, I'd be going,

STERLING: 10:57

ugh. It'd be me. No. For me, my top five would be me. The reason why, because if you don't love what you do, why are you doing it?

ERIC: 11:07

Oh. Oh. Okay.

STERLING: 11:09

Yeah. I would have

ERIC: 11:10

to add myself in the top five.

STERLING: 11:11

Even though I know I have work to do, If you don't love what you do, why are you doing it?

ERIC: 11:16

Have you always felt that way?

STERLING: 11:17

No. But over the last ten years, I've definitely understood why am I doing this if I don't love it? And I don't love what I'm doing and why I'm doing it.

ERIC: 11:28

Yeah. Yeah.

STERLING: 11:28

Like, I I feel like I have

ERIC: 11:30

to be my top five. You know? Maybe one. You know? That's fair.

ERIC: 11:33

Yeah. Yeah. If you don't if you don't like

STERLING: 11:35

the way trash in some areas, but I love what I do.

ERIC: 11:39

If you don't like the way you sound, then you're not practicing enough. You know? Absolutely.

STERLING: 11:43

Yeah. So I don't have a mountain Rushmore. I can't put five, four drummers and stay there. I don't think I could do that.

ERIC: 11:52

Meaning your your answer changes too much?

STERLING: 11:55

Yeah. It it's too fluid because of who inspires me. And I'm a be real. I don't watch at this age. I don't watch a lot of drummers because I don't wanna sound like anybody.

STERLING: 12:06

So I'll I'll watch more interviews about their life and and how they transition from being a studio cad and how they recorded albums and things of that nature. But I don't it's hard for me to watch so much drumming because I don't wanna sound like nobody else. And I think I've done a job a good job of not sounding like anybody.

ERIC: 12:26

That's fair. I I have noticed if I if I'm listening to one person too much

STERLING: 12:31

It's gonna come out of

ERIC: 12:31

your plan. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, this is Yeah.

STERLING: 12:34

And then if you're listening to someone in a genre you don't even play

ERIC: 12:38

Yeah.

STERLING: 12:39

You're gonna be trying stuff on a gig, like, that doesn't fit. You know? But, man so who are your Mount Rushmore? Say them again.

ERIC: 12:47

So Dave Wechel. Dave. Benny Kalayuta. Benny. Jojo Mare.

ERIC: 12:52

Jojo Mare. Benny Grib. Benny Grib. Man, that's hard.

STERLING: 12:55

I

ERIC: 12:56

I know.

STERLING: 12:56

That's a hard four to come up against, man.

ERIC: 12:58

And and don't be mad at me because they're all white guys. It's just Excuse my So so I have a question for you then. Aside from our personal opinion, who do you think in the entire drum community fits that title? Because I think a lot of people might hate on us for not mentioning Buddy Rich. Yeah.

ERIC: 13:19

You know? Or Steve Gad. Steve Gad. Yeah. But

STERLING: 13:24

Well, they weren't like like, they're great drummers. They just weren't influential to me. Like, they didn't have that much of an impact. It might be my age. Yeah.

STERLING: 13:33

Like, it might be what I grew up on too because my dad put me on a lot of phone.

ERIC: 13:38

Yeah. So I think that's a big part of it as a style of music because because Buddy was doing all big band Yeah. Nobody our age was grew up listening to big band.

STERLING: 13:46

Zero big band.

ERIC: 13:47

Of course, there's plenty of drummers that listen to it now. Yeah. There's plenty of drummers that listen to it now because of him. Yeah. Right.

ERIC: 13:52

But otherwise,

STERLING: 13:53

I would love to play it. Yeah. But I wasn't my dad didn't put on a big band album on Saturday morning. Right. You know, it was James Brown.

ERIC: 14:01

You can't Yeah. You can't argue against his influence, of course.

STERLING: 14:03

Absolutely not.

ERIC: 14:05

But so here's another we talk about qualities. Right? I think the hallmark of being a great drummer is being fluid in least a few styles.

STERLING: 14:15

Yes, absolutely. Obviously,

ERIC: 14:17

there are guys who've made amazing careers out of doing just one thing, which is totally fine. But to really, like, reach that pinnacle of a drummer, you gotta be well rounded to an extent.

STERLING: 14:29

I agree.

ERIC: 14:30

You know? Like, some of my favorites ever, like Vinny. Yeah. He'll go play with Jeff Beck, he's doing all this crazy double bass prog stuff. And then he goes and plays with Sting, and now he's playing pop.

ERIC: 14:39

And both of them, you're like, oh, this is

STERLING: 14:41

But that's why I think I had Dave and Dennis on there. Yeah. Because they're both fluent in double bass, both fluent in phone both fluent in fusion. Yeah. Like, can sit on any gig.

STERLING: 14:53

Right. They can play for Shaka Khan or they can, you know, they can Yeah. They can move however they wanna move. Yeah. You know?

STERLING: 15:00

And that's why I don't know who my next two will be. I know I would be number five.

ERIC: 15:05

K. So give me your aside from you, give me your other four. Dave, Dennis, Tony Williams.

STERLING: 15:13

I don't know. I feel like if I put him in there, I'm leaving somebody out.

ERIC: 15:17

Well, yeah. I mean, this could go on and on forever, but I know, man. But so so to you then, when it comes to all the different qualities that a drummer has to have, I personally, for whatever reason, I'm not huge on drum solos. Man. Of those four, I'll listen to those guys

STERLING: 15:39

Yeah. I can help you.

ERIC: 15:40

But even then, it gets it gets tiring, like, pretty quickly, I I feel for me. Whereas other guys can that's all they wanna hear is just drum solos.

STERLING: 15:48

Well, I think I enjoy the drum solos because having a marching band background

ERIC: 15:53

Yeah.

STERLING: 15:54

I like to hear everything, how people use the kit. Sure. You know? Because eventually, that's a part of something I wanna incorporate in my career.

ERIC: 16:03

Yeah.

STERLING: 16:03

And so I like how people conversate with their drums. Yeah. You know, how they weave in and why they did what they did to get to here. Yeah. That's why I like Chris.

STERLING: 16:12

Yeah. Because he'll play something in September sort of

ERIC: 16:16

Oh, yeah.

STERLING: 16:16

You know, and have the crowd clapping in different Yeah. Yeah. Time signatures is wild to me, which is, you know, probably the first time I've ever seen that. Yeah. You know, is the way he uses the crowd inside of his solos.

STERLING: 16:29

And that's what I appreciate about solos. Yeah. Like the authenticity, like, the difference, like, bringing something I've never seen. Now I I understand what you mean. Like and if if they're always soloing, like

ERIC: 16:42

Well, not just that they're always soloing. Just I

STERLING: 16:45

don't prefer it.

ERIC: 16:45

Don't listen to to that many solos or don't wanna I don't pull up YouTube and just watch drum solos for for hours. It just

STERLING: 16:53

Yeah. I couldn't

ERIC: 16:54

do that. Because I you know, the the chops and the fireworks and whatever you wanna call it, it's cool.

STERLING: 17:00

But It has its place.

ERIC: 17:01

I wanna hear the music. Yeah. You know what I mean? The guys that, as you know, the guys that are gigging the most, not really known for soloing. They can.

ERIC: 17:09

But you look at a guy like Stanley Randolph, that dude is is I don't even know if he has a home because he's on tour so much.

STERLING: 17:17

Yeah. And his man, he knows how to make the drums talk in a record. But he is just I would love he's a group machine. I need to find out what records he's on. Oh, because he can make just live.

ERIC: 17:29

Yeah.

STERLING: 17:29

He can make the drums talk,

ERIC: 17:31

man. No. He's he's a group machine.

STERLING: 17:34

But I think of I I think the same thing about Larnell.

ERIC: 17:37

Yeah. There's another one, man.

STERLING: 17:39

But that can solo. Yeah. And it's not a and the way he uses all the drums. Yeah. Like, he'll use the side of the drum.

STERLING: 17:46

He'll he'll choke in him. You know, it's the way he uses the solo that's, you know, impactful to me. And that's the type of solo and I appreciate. And I'm not knocking nobody else for whatever else they do. Yeah.

STERLING: 17:57

You know? Of course. I can't I I will agree. I can't go to YouTube and watch Yeah. Thirty minutes or so.

ERIC: 18:04

But but in order to reach that status, that's I feel like that's gotta be a part of it in some way.

STERLING: 18:10

Just show freedom.

ERIC: 18:11

Like, yeah, mean, that was, that was one of the craziest things to me watching Weckle solo, new solo every night, five nights in a row. And there'd be times where I see- Hold on.

STERLING: 18:21

Let me, let me preface that by saying he, he, he was teching for Weckle by the way. So he's not gonna tell you what I'll tell you. He was actually teching for Welker, which was pretty cool. But go ahead.

ERIC: 18:32

I'm sorry. That was a great experience. And he's awesome dude. It, it meeting him, you know, you hear stories about, you know, who he is, whatever. Everybody's got a a bad thing to say about someone famous, of course.

ERIC: 18:45

But,

STERLING: 18:48

I've never actually heard anything bad about that.

ERIC: 18:50

Oh, really? Yeah. I won't get into it. I'm not gonna bad mouth him at all. I have nothing bad to say about him.

ERIC: 18:56

He's an awesome dude.

STERLING: 18:56

But people

ERIC: 18:57

You can tell pretty early on why he is who he is. He is a highly focused Yeah. Individual, but he as long as he's been doing this, man, he treats every gig, every venue, like The first one. Like, it is the Super Bowl halftime show. Oh.

ERIC: 19:15

Even, dude, even during sound check, he is a % focused.

STERLING: 19:20

That's what I like about Sonny Emery too.

ERIC: 19:22

Yeah. And so with him, man, watching him come up with these solos every night and there'd be times he'd do something, I'm like, oh, was that kind of a mistake? And he would turn what I thought was into a mistake into part of the solo and make it like another lick that he'd come back to. And I was like, golly, like just the the freedom. So that

STERLING: 19:42

I'm not gonna name the venue because they're in trouble that you were work that you tech for him here in Atlanta. I'm not gonna say the venue. Okay. Because a lot of people haven't been paid.

ERIC: 19:52

It doesn't surprise me.

STERLING: 19:53

A lot of people. Like one person just took it to the news for second time. Yeah. But you know, I actually, when you were tagging for Dave there, actually went to the wrong location. And so I'm like, I gotta see Dave.

STERLING: 20:10

It was a hundred bucks. I was like, cool. I'll pay

ERIC: 20:12

it. Place is tiny, man. I felt bad. As soon as we walked in, I was like, come on. We just, we just left city city winery in Nashville.

ERIC: 20:19

Yeah. Which is our beautiful venue.

STERLING: 20:21

Yeah. Then you come

ERIC: 20:22

in. And we walked in there. I was like,

STERLING: 20:23

oh, yeah. Yeah. I'm surprised you fit that kid

ERIC: 20:26

on me.

STERLING: 20:27

But anyway, sorry. Let me, let me, I drive to the wrong location, thirty minutes out of the way, and then I drive all the way back to there and I get there. Now I'm there.

ERIC: 20:38

Yeah.

STERLING: 20:38

And it's sold out and I'm standing at the door and I'm just creeping in. And I'm like, if nobody says anything, I'm just gonna stand here at the doorway. So I'm standing in there. Soon as I walk in his, his solo stars.

ERIC: 20:52

Yeah.

STERLING: 20:52

And I'm like,

ERIC: 20:53

thank you, Jesus. Yeah.

STERLING: 20:54

And so maybe like five minutes, his solo was quite a few. It was maybe, man, I'd say about five, ten minutes.

ERIC: 21:03

Probably.

STERLING: 21:03

Yeah. And so the lady comes back and she goes, Hey, all right. Y'all gotta leave. So I'm getting kicked out in the middle of the solo with like five or six other dudes that are all just standing in the doorway cramped up. Because you know, the place is small.

STERLING: 21:18

Yeah. And so I call my wife. I'm like, babe, like, they just kicked me out. And she's like, well, go back in and ask them, can you stand there for $20? And I'm like, that's weird.

STERLING: 21:30

Don't wanna really bother anybody. You know? Yeah. So I listen and I go back in there and I'm like, hey, can you ask the owner, can I come back in and stand here for $20? She said, give me a few minutes.

STERLING: 21:42

Now I get to watch the rest of the solo.

ERIC: 21:43

Nice. So even if I get kicked out You still got to see some more.

STERLING: 21:47

I'm cool with it because I just saw the whole solo.

ERIC: 21:49

Yeah.

STERLING: 21:50

But she comes back and tells me to sit down. And I'm like, $20? I guess somebody had between us getting kicked out and me calling my wife, somebody leaves, and it's one seat left.

ERIC: 22:03

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I mean, because of how tiny was the the occupancy thing, the capacity was Yeah.

STERLING: 22:09

That's a whole another thing. Know?

ERIC: 22:11

The whole the whole thing was tough.

STERLING: 22:12

And I miss Dennis there because she didn't promote it well. I mean, they didn't promote it well.

ERIC: 22:17

Yeah. Doesn't surprise me.

STERLING: 22:18

Yeah. But anyway, just getting to see him. And he was surprised by the compliment I gave him backstage. He was like, wow, you know,

ERIC: 22:29

I don't, did I, mean, was right there, but, but

STERLING: 22:32

which is. But all I said was, and I think that's why it's okay to meet the guys that inspire you. Yeah. People say don't meet your heroes and none of that like that.

ERIC: 22:42

Which I get when it because when it's

STERLING: 22:44

a little Especially after a show. Yeah. Touring, I can understand why you don't wanna walk up on nobody. Yeah. But all I did was tell them, thank you for taking what you do seriously because you've allowed what you love to motivate what I love.

STERLING: 22:59

Yep. And he was like, Yeah. And that's when we took the picture and, you know, but I just wanted to make sure it was impactful to understand that Thank you. Yeah. Because you being a stickler for being that great and wanting to take it to that level has motivated hundreds, if not hundreds of thousands of drummers to take it seriously and go to another level and actually see themselves being somebody in the drumming world.

ERIC: 23:28

So Right. And that's and that's why I put him on my top, just seeing how dedicated he was regardless of the venue, regardless of the gig. I have heard stories about Vinny, like, being in the studio and playing some jazz thing and having his phone on the floor, Tom. And, like, dude looks in and he's he's, like, got the news pulled up on his phone or whatever. Why he's Still sounds good.

ERIC: 23:53

You know what I mean? But it's like crazy. Yeah. Just because and it it kinda makes sense because he's been doing it so

STERLING: 23:59

long. It's second nature.

ERIC: 24:00

Yeah. You know? And especially if it's a quote, unquote easier, you know, thing that he's playing, it's like, it's probably like like chewing gum for him. You know what I mean? So he's yeah.

ERIC: 24:12

Yeah. But with with with Dave, it was like, man, this dude is he's just on it. Yeah. You know? Like, everything he does.

STERLING: 24:18

Yeah. And my first time seeing that VHS, you know, at a buddy's house, I was like, wait a minute.

ERIC: 24:24

Yeah.

STERLING: 24:26

I don't think I know what I'm doing. Of course I didn't. But I was in drumline. I'm like, yeah, I'm killing it, man. You know, I'm playing Quince, and I'm like, yeah.

STERLING: 24:35

I'm the man. And then I seen that VHS, and I was like, wait.

ERIC: 24:39

We even doing that. We're playing the same instrument. What I'm doing.

STERLING: 24:43

Yeah. So, yeah, I I agree with you with Dave, man. He's, you know, he's my top one.

ERIC: 24:48

And and not to mention too, the first place we get to in Chattanooga, the sound guy was a drummer. He's like, man, I'm I'm really excited, you know, to mix for him and everything. Davis, he's so type a. He's so on it. Yeah.

ERIC: 25:04

He he makes his own mix.

STERLING: 25:08

And then you

ERIC: 25:09

just He makes his own mix. He's got his own mixer up next to him or behind him on the stage, and he just sends the sound guy left and right. And the dude was, like, kinda bumped. Right? He's like I was like, hey, man.

ERIC: 25:19

You know? I mean, you still get to turn the volume up for him. It's his gig. Right? But after, the dude goes, man, I'm I've never had drums sound that good in here.

STERLING: 25:28

He knows what he's doing.

ERIC: 25:30

Yeah. That's why he's the goat. Yeah. You know?

STERLING: 25:34

Yeah. So I I don't really, you know, have a Mount Rushmore, man. I've asked this peep I've asked people this question. And just talking to Nick DiVergilio at NAMM this past year, he kinda made me realize that this might be a stupid question. Not not in that way, but when you ask it, you're asking somebody to eliminate other drummers

ERIC: 25:58

Oh, of course.

STERLING: 25:59

For their top four. And when he got to naming people in that interview I did with him, man, he it was just like, oh, wait. Oh. Oh. Oh.

STERLING: 26:08

It's like, can I really

ERIC: 26:10

do a top four? Well, because the reality is, number one, it's subjective. Yeah. Right? It's all purely opinion based.

ERIC: 26:17

There are certain things you can sort of qualify or or Disqualify. Right. Yeah. But aside from that, the world of music is just it's way too massive Yeah. To to really know or to really just pick one because, like you said, you are eliminating

STERLING: 26:36

Billy Cobb.

ERIC: 26:37

So many other people.

STERLING: 26:38

Like, I mean

ERIC: 26:39

The list goes on and

STERLING: 26:40

is Yeah. Vast. Have you But it I think it's really subjective. Like you said, it's based on who who had an impact on you.

ERIC: 26:48

Have you ever read the, you know, the Rolling Stone magazine? Mm-mm. Never heard of Rolling Stone magazine?

STERLING: 26:53

Yeah. Yeah. Of course.

ERIC: 26:54

But

STERLING: 26:54

was it a certain article?

ERIC: 26:55

They they did an article, the top 100 I'm pretty sure they labeled it top 100 greatest drummers of all time. Don't do me a favor. Don't read it

STERLING: 27:07

because it's just episode, we're gonna we're gonna start the next episode by reading what he just said.

ERIC: 27:13

Right. It it's gonna make you mad. I'm blanking on who they picked.

STERLING: 27:17

So what year did this come out?

ERIC: 27:19

Years ago. Probably mid two thousands, I think.

STERLING: 27:23

And if it's wrong, man, it's definitely gonna be wrong now.

ERIC: 27:26

It's it the thing is

STERLING: 27:28

It's based on is it based off on, like, who the drummer plays for? Because that's a whole nother it's a lot of guys that are really with, you know, big acts that aren't

ERIC: 27:39

It feels like more of a popularity contest. If I

STERLING: 27:42

That's what I was gonna get at.

ERIC: 27:43

If I remember correctly, Vinny was, like, in the eighties.

STERLING: 27:48

Yeah. We're not gonna read that. We're absolutely not gonna read that. Like That's what I'm saying, man. There's no way.

ERIC: 27:55

That's what I'm saying. I told you it was gonna make you mad because

STERLING: 27:58

So is it based off money?

ERIC: 28:00

I it feels like more of when you read the list, it feels like more of a popularity contest.

STERLING: 28:04

Like, who do people know?

ERIC: 28:05

Like, a lot of the top 10 was, like, drummers from, like, the most famous bands of all time. That's what I saying. Sure Ringo was in the top 10, which no hate on Ringo as much hate as there has been in the

STERLING: 28:14

people hate Ringo? Let's just get to that real quick. I'm sorry to pivot, but why do why do people hate Ringo?

ERIC: 28:20

I think the biggest

STERLING: 28:21

because I've never disliked anything he's done. I don't.

ERIC: 28:23

No. He's he's incredible, and he's super innovative.

STERLING: 28:26

Everybody has their time.

ERIC: 28:27

Especially when you listen to what every other drummer at the time was playing, he stands out.

STERLING: 28:32

Everybody has their time.

ERIC: 28:33

I think the biggest gripe or or whatever you wanna call it, the biggest knock against him that people say is of the four Beatles, people considered him the least talented, which

STERLING: 28:45

That's what they do to drummers. That's a whole another conversation, but that's what they do to drummers. Yep. Yeah. Yeah.

STERLING: 28:51

That's a whole another conversation. Yeah.

ERIC: 28:54

So in terms of that, yeah, it it's it's you know, I'm I'm pretty

STERLING: 28:59

sure. I mean, I've seen people take, like, little shots at him, but I never understood, like, why. I've never been the guy to hate on a drummer.

ERIC: 29:07

Well, here's the thing. If if you know the history of the Beatles, they had a different guy, Pete Best. Yeah. And as they started to really make some noise and grow their audience, they were like, hey, this guy's not cutting it.

STERLING: 29:20

Yeah. That's what they do.

ERIC: 29:21

So they went and pulled Ringo from a different band. Yeah. Because they were like, hey, we're trying to take this to the next level.

STERLING: 29:27

What's wrong with that?

ERIC: 29:27

And then obviously, they became the biggest band in the history of the world. So he was doing something. Right?

STERLING: 29:33

Yeah.

ERIC: 29:34

But I think, you know, it's like a comparative thing compared to the other four.

STERLING: 29:38

You can't do this, though. I know. Which is not fair.

ERIC: 29:41

I know. It's silly.

STERLING: 29:42

But I've never been the guy to hate on a drummer because everybody's got their time. Everybody has their thing, and everybody is not motivated by the same thing. Well, everybody doesn't play the same music. Yeah. Everybody doesn't grow up the same.

STERLING: 29:55

Everybody's experience is the same. It's not the same. So, I mean, there's some drummers that, you know, I'm not a fan of, but I'm not gonna bash them.

ERIC: 30:02

I don't understand that. Yes.

STERLING: 30:04

Every everybody's got their thing.

ERIC: 30:05

As you know, just making a splash in the music industry at all is incredibly difficult. Absolutely. And if you were the drummer in a band that blows up, becomes famous.

STERLING: 30:17

They're gonna somebody's not gonna like you.

ERIC: 30:18

Even if it's not about you, so to speak, even if your parts are not that intricate, whatever, like you were part of that. And if it was a different guy,

STERLING: 30:26

it He'll be a part of it.

ERIC: 30:27

Most likely wouldn't be the same thing. Yeah. Might not reach the same level of There's been plenty of band, like the bands I grew up listening to, there's been plenty of them that have changed drummers over the years. And a few times I'm like, not the same. I'm not, I'm just not as into it anymore.

ERIC: 30:43

Yeah. The other guy just I don't know if it's the chemistry or that that his style worked better.

STERLING: 30:47

You can

ERIC: 30:48

hear it. Style. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You can hear it.

STERLING: 30:50

You can hear the change.

ERIC: 30:51

Yeah. There there are certain bands where it's it's irreplaceable. Imagine trying to take Stuart Copeland out of the police.

STERLING: 30:58

Yeah. Okay.

ERIC: 30:59

They're not the police anymore. You know? There's something else.

STERLING: 31:01

Yeah.

ERIC: 31:02

Right?

STERLING: 31:03

The sheriffs.

ERIC: 31:04

Other bands, yeah, you can swap out guys and they'll play the parts, but it's when it comes to the the newer music, the next album they make with the new drummer, nine times out of 10, it's

STERLING: 31:15

like, for better

ERIC: 31:17

or for worse, can you can hear it. You go, it's just not the same thing. It's not the same band anymore. Same name. Same same

STERLING: 31:22

thing though. Subjective because somebody else might not know nothing but the new drummer.

ERIC: 31:28

Sure. Absolutely.

STERLING: 31:28

You know what I mean? Absolutely. You know? So that's

ERIC: 31:30

why I don't

STERLING: 31:30

really you know, everybody's got their time. Everybody got their thing.

ERIC: 31:34

Which is which outside of drummers, that's kinda true for everything. There's been other bands where they've changed bass players or Or tunes or

STERLING: 31:41

whatever. Players.

ERIC: 31:41

I mean, shoot. The Chili Peppers have had, like, seven or eight good drums.

STERLING: 31:44

Say Mars Volta hasn't been the same since Thomas left.

ERIC: 31:48

Oh, you might not like this, but I like I like the guy before Thomas better. John Theodore.

STERLING: 31:54

I don't know, man.

ERIC: 31:55

And it might just be because of those

STERLING: 31:56

Well, see, I didn't know Morris until Thomas. See, that's the point I was making. Yeah. All I know is Thomas. Yeah.

STERLING: 32:02

You see? So now if I go back and listen to it, then I'm like, oh, okay. I can get it.

ERIC: 32:07

Yeah.

STERLING: 32:07

But that's the point I was making earlier. Like, all I know is Thomas

ERIC: 32:11

To your point, though, Thomas was the perfect fit for that album.

STERLING: 32:14

Absolutely.

ERIC: 32:15

Had they tried to make that album with the other guy, I don't think it would have been as good.

STERLING: 32:18

Because Thomas can play everything right handed that he can play left handed.

ERIC: 32:21

That's insane.

STERLING: 32:22

Like everything he can do with his right side of his body, he can do with the left. That is insane.

ERIC: 32:27

Yeah. He's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Alright.

ERIC: 32:31

So if you had to narrow it down Man. And just pick one. Say to, to battle for your life. Oh, gotta pick one.

STERLING: 32:41

Kind of battle we talking? Because I might go Tony.

ERIC: 32:44

In a, in a drum battle? Yeah. Like a, like a circa 2,015, whenever they stopped doing it. Woah. Wait.

ERIC: 32:52

Guitar sent a drum off.

STERLING: 32:53

See, I would go Dave.

ERIC: 32:55

You got to.

STERLING: 32:56

Right? I got to go Dave. Yeah. Well, see, I don't know, man. Chris Chris will kill that.

ERIC: 33:02

You've heard that that Chris will kill that. If not, I'm a send it to you. You've heard or or and especially watched the video. With with them too? Yeah.

ERIC: 33:10

Doing Higher Ground.

STERLING: 33:11

Listen. Did you watch Benny and Chris? No. We'll check that out after yeah.

ERIC: 33:18

Yeah. We gotta share some stuff. There's also the one of Benny and Jojo.

STERLING: 33:21

Never seen that?

ERIC: 33:21

It's just the two of them. Yeah. I haven't seen that. And I think Jojo starts out with brushes, but, bro, it's just like a thirteen minute conversation on the drums between two of the best drummers ever. Just completely

STERLING: 33:35

So when are we gonna do that? Oh. Man. Little pressure.

ERIC: 33:39

You know, I'm pretty busy. Yeah.

STERLING: 33:41

A little pressure. But I I you need to send that to me, and I'll send you the For sure. The the the Benny and the But I think that was last summer, though. I think Benny and Chris was Really? Last summer.

STERLING: 33:52

Yeah.

ERIC: 33:52

Oh, wow. That's recent.

STERLING: 33:53

I think it was Benny's clinic or something, like some big room.

ERIC: 33:56

Oh, cool. Yeah. I think He does a lot of those camps, which is amazing because it's one of those things, like, he doesn't have to do this,

STERLING: 34:02

but he wants to. But I think that's what's part of being the GOAT. That's that's you know? I feel like the GOAT has to have an educator inside of him.

ERIC: 34:12

Yep. And that's my only

STERLING: 34:13

And I to go back what you were saying earlier, he had, like, Dennis. He's done, you know, clinics. And and, actually, he's a part of the day welcome clinic with Peter Erskine. Oh. Who else is on there?

ERIC: 34:25

There's another one.

STERLING: 34:26

Asking. Yeah. Golly. See, that's why you can't this goat talk can literally go on and on because listen. Yeah.

STERLING: 34:34

If you ask guys ten years older, it's just not gonna be Dave.

ERIC: 34:38

Oh, yeah.

STERLING: 34:39

You ask guys fifteen, twenty years older, them is not gonna be Dave. You see what I'm saying? It's like, it's based on era. And that's why I was saying about Benny.

ERIC: 34:46

I feel like anyone older than us is is almost I'm I'd bet almost all of them gonna say buddy race.

STERLING: 34:51

Yeah. And Ringo

ERIC: 34:52

because and interesting.

STERLING: 34:55

Who you, who else you think they're gonna say? Neil perk. Oh, yeah. Neil is gonna be on a lot of them and phenomenal drum parts. Yeah.

STERLING: 35:05

To, to, and I, I, I really feel like he changed the game on the way drummers were able to write songs. Yeah. Because nobody was thinking like that.

ERIC: 35:16

Right.

STERLING: 35:16

Like nobody. And that's another one. Like I can't play any of that.

ERIC: 35:22

Man, and talk about-

STERLING: 35:24

can't play any of that music.

ERIC: 35:25

Talk about a technician. When I saw them live, I mean, was-

STERLING: 35:28

Wait, so you actually got to Oh, okay. Well, I'm gonna let you cook right

ERIC: 35:33

I'm pretty sure I wanna say it was the snakes and arrows tour. But man, I have, you know, most time you see a band, especially a band, a rock band live, it's a little loose. It's a little off the album, so to speak. You know what I mean? It's it's rock and roll.

ERIC: 35:49

Yeah. Right? This dude, every song note for note did not miss a it sound you close your eyes. Like, this is the record. I'm just hearing the record played through loud live speakers right now.

STERLING: 36:00

Yeah.

ERIC: 36:00

He was just on it, man. It was it was unreal. I mean, you know, the whole everybody sounded

STERLING: 36:06

What year was this?

ERIC: 36:08

Oh, 02/2011 maybe. Yeah. At the that that amphitheater in Alpharetta. Yeah. I think it's called Ameris now.

ERIC: 36:18

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It was at Verizon, I think, at the time. But, yeah, it was unbelievable.

STERLING: 36:24

Yeah. I think what the only we'll talk about this in another episode, but the downside about being a touring drummer is you miss a lot of shows. You get it. You miss a lot of chances to be inspired, but you're doing what you wanna do. So it's like, is it a negative?

ERIC: 36:44

I mean, the best you can hope for is if

STERLING: 36:47

They come on a Wednesday.

ERIC: 36:48

If who you're torn with

STERLING: 36:50

Oh, man. They're here on a Wednesday. Or if

ERIC: 36:52

who you're torn with has a you know, if they're opening for somebody or somebody's opening for you Yeah. Or you know what I mean? That's not And in which case, you know, you get to see somebody else, but otherwise yeah.

STERLING: 37:00

Well, I I will say, you know, I've got to see some cool drummers in the country world. Yeah. But as far as like the guys I grew up listening to, I don't really get to see them. Yeah. You know, because of scheduling and and let me say this, all you dope drummers come back to Atlanta.

STERLING: 37:18

I know we don't have, you know, the so we have Atlanta drum shop, which he's throwing clinics, but like, let's book the variety playhouse. Let's like, we need, you know, Dave in the variety. We need Dennis in the, you know, we need Chris, we need Benny. We need these guys. And that's what, you know, I'm a try to do with the authority percussionist, like build a hub here so we can get these guys here because I shouldn't have to drive to Nashville I know.

STERLING: 37:50

To see Nate Smith. I should be able to see him right here.

ERIC: 37:53

It's crazy because, I mean, Atlanta has the busiest airport on the planet.

STERLING: 37:57

Yes.

ERIC: 37:58

It is such a hub. And

STERLING: 37:59

they all have to come through here to go somewhere.

ERIC: 38:01

Yeah. It's such a hub for everything else. And we have plenty of arenas and venues and convention centers,

STERLING: 38:07

it's I shouldn't have to travel five hours to go to We

ERIC: 38:10

got Dragon Con. We can't get drummers here.

STERLING: 38:13

Yeah. We got sneaker con, Dragon Con. Yeah. Yeah. Can we get our favorite drummers?

ERIC: 38:19

I guess we're starting Drummer Con. Actually, no. I'd I'd take it back. That's gonna be way too loud.

STERLING: 38:25

He just left me hanging. Well, guys, I think that'll do it. You know? What else?

ERIC: 38:32

We we decided. I mean,

STERLING: 38:34

I don't have a four.

ERIC: 38:35

It's but it's Dave.

STERLING: 38:37

Yeah. I mean,

ERIC: 38:38

it it If we both had to pick one, it's Dave. There's

STERLING: 38:41

your answer. I feel like giving both of them a mic just to ask them because I wanna show you that it's

ERIC: 38:46

We ask we ask everybody. Put put it in the comments. Whoever you think your GOAT is Who is your one. Let's not get into the Mount Rushmore and all that. Just pick one.

ERIC: 38:54

No. I want

STERLING: 38:55

I want one and a possible. I want your second one

ERIC: 38:58

too. Okay.

STERLING: 38:59

Because I wanna know the mindset. I wanna know how Sure. You know? Because somebody might just say somebody because they're

ERIC: 39:05

two and also tell us why. Put it in the comments. Please. Yeah.

STERLING: 39:09

But I think we can agree with Dave. And we're also around the same age. Yeah. So I think that's why, you know

ERIC: 39:15

But for all the different things, the the the multiple styles, the educator, the the consistency, the evolution over time.

STERLING: 39:23

Yeah. Yeah. Made waves after waves after waves, motivated drummers. Even to this day, like going to NAMM and seeing Dave Yeah. And I'm standing in the back of the room because I can't even get to him.

ERIC: 39:34

Oh, yeah. Like, you

STERLING: 39:35

And like, I'm literally in the back of the room with a with a three sixty stick that's like

ERIC: 39:40

six feet tall and everybody's just looking at me and I just got this big old three

STERLING: 39:44

sixty camera. Like, hopefully I can get this.

ERIC: 39:47

I guess that guy.

STERLING: 39:48

Just seeing that and all the a the age gap was every generation that was there was there. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I think we can agree on Dave.

ERIC: 39:58

There you have it guys. That's the GOAT, Dave Weckle.

STERLING: 40:01

Dave Weckle.

ERIC: 40:01

Now we know.

STERLING: 40:03

Dennis, I love you, but I think Dave got it because of that VHS, man.

ERIC: 40:08

Yeah.

STERLING: 40:09

I think that VHS really changed my life, like in all honesty.

ERIC: 40:13

That's fair.

STERLING: 40:13

And forget that kid that I saw that with. He screwed me over later on in life, but actually maybe like six months later. But, yeah, Dave, I think

ERIC: 40:25

we All Now we know. Yeah. All right, guys. Thank you for watching. Stay with us.

ERIC: 40:31

We're gonna have a lot more conversations like this. Yes, Many other things. We're gonna have guests. We're gonna be be doing all kinds of stuff on this podcast. And, anything else?

ERIC: 40:41

Peace. Eric Lee, Sterling Whiteside at Eric Lee drumming on all social media. At Sterling Whiteside on all social media. And at for the drummers, that's the number four, the drummers. Check us out on all social media.

ERIC: 40:56

We'll see y'all next week.

STERLING: 40:57

Peace and chicken grease.