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Are you a passionate veterinarian seeking to elevate your practice and make a lasting impact in the field?
Welcome to "The Vet'Ed Podcast". Join Steven Hermann, Kale Flaspohler and Lindo Zwane - industry experts and thought leaders, as they delve into tailored strategies and nurturing relationships to empower privately owned veterinary practices.
Tune in the first and third Wednesday of the month to gain invaluable insights, tips, and inspiration to thrive in your independent clinic. Together, let's build a community dedicated to advancing veterinary care. Subscribe now and embark on a journey towards lasting success in your practice.
Are you ready? Alright. Welcome to the Vetit Podcast where we explore the intersection of leadership, well-being, and empowerment in veterinary medicine. Hey. Today, we've got a special guest, doctor Jennifer Edwards.
Steven:Great to have you on today.
Dr. Edwards:Thank you I'm so excited to be here and get into a great conversation
Steven:absolutely for the for the listeners that first time hearing from doctor Jennifer Edwards on our podcast say a little bit about you here make sure I get it right BS in psychology from Virginia Tech, doctor of veterinary medicine from Virginia Maryland College of Veterinary Medicine. Doctor Jennifer Edwards spent years navigating the highs and lows of veterinary practice, eventually becoming a practice owner in 02/2007. Her journey through career challenges, entrepreneurship, and personal struggles led her to explore transformation, self development, and spirituality. Helping her create a more balanced fulfilling life. Now as the chair of wellness committee for the New Hampshire Veterinary Medical Association, Doctor.
Steven:Edwards is passionate about supporting her colleagues by sharing personal development insights promote mental health and well-being. You've been a speaker in multiple places and you have your own business now talking about growth. So talk talk about your business real quick.
Dr. Edwards:Well, currently, I am a mindset leadership coach and a speaker, and I do all sorts of things. I do private coaching one on one with leaders, with veterinarians, with I also work outside of the veterinary profession. K. I also do team training and in speaking. Essentially, it's a way of teaching transformation, for lack lack of a better way to put it.
Dr. Edwards:And the end result is to help people, whether they're dealing with their home lives or work or a combination of both, which is usually the situation, to help people to be empowered and understand how they can actually have a life that they want, have a life that works for them. And to get down, I always say, I wanna go several layers deep to get to what's subconsciously standing in their way, to clear away the beliefs, clear away the blocks. There is so much more available for people than they realize. And, essentially, getting rid of that stuck, disempowered, resigned experience that so many people have.
Steven:I love it. That abundance mindset right there. Right? There's there's abundance out there. So that's that's wonderful.
Steven:Well, it's great to have you on. We met at Vet Partners, and you came up to me. I really appreciate came to me and and, shared that we should do the podcast together, and and thank you for that. That was a wonderful part about VetPartners, the networking, and meeting new people that have a shared passion for the betterment, the betterment community. And we talked about earlier, helping people get the mindset mindset right.
Steven:You can't make change unless the mindset is in the right spot. So great to have you on today. And so hey. I think everyone knows I'm Steven Herman.
Kale:I'm Kale Flasbuller.
Steven:We've got Kelsey Wallace over here directing, producing, making sure the sounds work, and doing all the great stuff that matters on the podcast. We just had to sit here and speak. Yep. We've got the easy job. Even putting the agenda together.
Steven:So thank you, Kelsey, for getting all that set up. Hey. Before we dive in too deep, tell us about, you know, one of the one of the questions we like to ask. Let's go back. Maybe I'm going back here.
Steven:I'm not sure. When did you know you wanted to be a veterinarian?
Dr. Edwards:Well, it's kind of a funny story because unlike a lot of people, I am not the person who knew from eight years old that I wanted to be a vet. I actually went through college with the intention of getting a PhD in clinical psychology.
Steven:K.
Dr. Edwards:And never had notions. I always loved animals, of course, but never even occurred to me. And I was a senior in college. I had taken an animal behavior class that I thought was interesting. And all of a sudden, one day, I said, I'm going to vet school.
Dr. Edwards:And everybody in my life, you know, proverbially whipped their heads and said, what? And I honestly don't know if I ever would have thought of it had I not lived in a town that had a vet school. I was at Virginia Tech, so the vet college was right there. And, I did it. I I graduated with my bachelor's degree.
Dr. Edwards:I went to undergraduate for another two years to get the classes I needed because, of course, I had nothing I needed for vet school. I applied to one school one time. I got in, and off I went. And it was 100% without a doubt what I was meant to do in this life.
Steven:That's awesome. Yeah. Because you said it. We was it nine out of 10 or 95 out of a hundred veterinarians? Like, yeah.
Steven:In fourth grade. I just love you know? Or you hear the ones that, you know, the injured animal. Right? They got taken the veterinarian, and they saw the animal become healthy and just fell in love.
Steven:So, yeah, no. That that's wonderful that you had that experience with the so the animal psychology?
Dr. Edwards:Well, it was an animal behavior class.
Steven:Animal behavior. There we go. Yeah. Okay. Okay.
Dr. Edwards:That I was taking actually as part of my psychology degree.
Steven:Yeah.
Dr. Edwards:And I thought, oh, would be fun to work with animals. Like, literally, that was my thought. And then I said, well, if I'm gonna work with animals, I may as well go to vet school. It it was, like, that simple in my in my thinking process, and I was like, okay. Well, I don't really know anything about veterinary medicine.
Dr. Edwards:So I I walked over to the university bookstore, and I went to the veterinary section because, like I said, we had a vet school, so it was in there. And I just started pulling books off the shelf and opening them and had no clue what anything meant and thought, oh, I can do this, and I did.
Steven:That's phenomenal. I love it. Well, you talk about growth mindset. I think you just you embodied growth mindset right there to be how many people would have a fixed mindset to go, I'm getting a psychology degree. That's what I have.
Steven:I'm continuing this path, but you were open to a possibility. That speaks to what you're doing. So thanks for sharing.
Kale:At what point in your in your studies did you decide you wanted to be an owner? Was that much later? Like, what point in your journey did you decide, hey. I wanna be an owner of a practice and then happen to do it in 02/2007, which I would like to unpack
Dr. Edwards:as well. Yeah. So I let's see. I was nine years out of school when I opened, and it took me about a year in preparation. So I'd say I was about seven and a half to eight years out of school in practice when I started thinking about it.
Dr. Edwards:And I was working at a practice that I really loved. I was I had a very good good relationship with the owner. We were friends, and he was a great mentor. I I didn't necessarily ever see myself buying that particular practice. It wasn't really close to where I live.
Dr. Edwards:And so I just started thinking about it. I also well, part of the reason because then I was faced with do I buy a practice or do I open a practice? And I had an a very, very clear specific vision of what I wanted my practice to be. And I felt that if I bought an existing practice, it was going to take a lot of time and and maybe additional effort to try to change or morph what was already there into what my vision was. And some of it might already match, but certainly not all of it would.
Dr. Edwards:So I said, well, if I start from scratch, then I can design everything exactly how I want it to be. So I was like, okay. I'll do that. I called a business realtor, and I I didn't have the money to buy a place. So I rented a building and walked in.
Dr. Edwards:It was full of cobwebs and black disgusting toilets. It was nasty. And it had been a medical office, a human medical office prior, but it was vacant for two and a half years. And I started scrubbing and got a contractor in there, and off I went with it.
Steven:That's awesome. Yeah. You literally had a your vision wasn't gonna be stopped by that, by cobwebs and the toilet and everything. It was it was hit.
Dr. Edwards:There was a moment there was a few episodes of gagging while I was cleaning some stuff. I was like, do I really wanna do this? And I was like, yep. And on with the rubber gloves. And, yeah, I just I just took one step at a time.
Dr. Edwards:I had no business training as many veterinarians, don't and had no idea about rules, regulations, laws. You know? I mean, I what's really funny is that I thought I knew. I was nine years out of school, and I was like, oh, you know, I I pretty much understand how this works. I've worked at several places and watched my boss, and I got this.
Dr. Edwards:And I look back now, and I laugh at myself. And I thought I had any clue how to run that business. But I learned. I learned along the way. I studied hard and used coaches and mentors and consultants along the way and did what I needed to do to get the training that I needed.
Steven:That's awesome. Well, it's it's interesting on you know, if we knew the whole story before the story unfolded, you know, sometimes would you would you go for it?
Dr. Edwards:Well, often not. And at the same time, one of a big, let's say, principle that I believe in and how I live my life and I've, you know, oftentimes coach others is while we have goals and intentions, and we need those to head in a certain direction, it's also not being too attached to an outcome. So a specific outcome or the same outcome, but exactly how it has to look. Because when we leave that a little bit fluid, we allow things to organically morph and develop in ways we never would have imagined and oftentimes bigger and better than we even thought we wanted. So that's something I've always lived inside of, and I think that was how I was able to shift from psychology to vet med and say, you know, oh, I'll open a practice.
Dr. Edwards:Oh, I'd literally take one step at a time and let it let it unfold.
Steven:Kinda sounds like Emmanuel Acho. If you've if you've watched Emmanuel Acho's work, he's a retired NFL football player that's done very well. He has a YouTube channel that's a difficult conversation with a black man. And and he and he gave and I get we looked at it as a team, what, a year ago or so. He's like, he's not he doesn't set these goals in place.
Steven:He sets objectives in place. And so that's why he looks at it. And it works worked really well for him because he's playing one in Emmy and, you know, has all this stuff going on that he had, you know, achieving these objectives. So that's is that is that the right way then what you're saying there? Is that right?
Steven:Hearing that right?
Dr. Edwards:Yeah. I mean, there's different ways of saying it. For me, I I like the word intention. It's it's even kind of like with my my current business that I'm still developing in in coaching and speaking. It's like people say, well, what do you wanna do?
Dr. Edwards:What do you want ten years to look like? What do you want five years to look like? And and I have a a vision. And I'm also like, I'm excited to see what it's going to look like. K.
Dr. Edwards:I don't know who I'm gonna meet. I'm gonna be at an event, talk to so and so, who knows so and so. They're gonna say, hey. Did you wanna try this? Or we're having and I try something else, and I think, oh my gosh.
Dr. Edwards:That was so much fun. And I go down a different path where I say, oh, I I wanna do this sort of work, and I do it a few times, And and you hate it, and you're like, oh, I don't wanna do that. And when we can let go of the shoulds and and and, like I said, being totally married to set way something has to be, we allow that. We allow things to become an authentic expression of ourselves. Things end up more in line with our passions, with our purpose, with our values, and we end up enjoying it more because along the way, we kinda kick away the things that don't work for us and just accumulate the things that do work for us.
Dr. Edwards:And that's what it's about.
Steven:That is. I love it.
Kale:Yeah. That's that's a that's a great way to think about it. I'm also curious. How did you navigate 02/2008 as a brand new business owner? You know, whatever time you open you chose a wonderful time to open.
Kale:Oh. So what was that like? Yeah.
Dr. Edwards:It it was it was great. Let me tell you. I opened on February, muddled through my first year, and and then we had a huge recession. It's interesting because, again, I had minimal business training. I I hate to be cliche, but I did have a bit of a build it and they will come attitude.
Dr. Edwards:On a personal level, it was not a fun time financially because I I made no money. I took no money home. You know, I went from being an associate veterinarian for all these years, making good money I I'm a very financially responsible person. Financial security is a huge value for me. So all of that was highly uncomfortable, and it was part of process.
Dr. Edwards:It was part of the journey. And I I got through it. I guess I just took it day by day, and, eventually, obviously, things started to turn around. I mean, it it was a minimal staff, my overhead. It was me and three employees at the time.
Dr. Edwards:I was my own manager. I did all my own bookkeeping. I did everything. So, yeah, we just got got through.
Steven:But Took it took it day
Dr. Edwards:by day. I don't wanna go back there. Yeah.
Steven:Well, I think that what's interesting what, Caitlin, we've seen that we've we've when we talk to veterinarians about default of, practices, that it's very rare that that practice owners had default on their credit, you know, their their loans. They pay those things. It's a very resilient industry. And so, you know, it's they made it through. So it it well, I asked, like, Bank of America, when have they seen anybody not make it?
Steven:And and that was at the time. They said we can we go back. It was 02/2009. We're a veterinarian. You know?
Steven:It did couldn't pay beyond that, though. The resiliency in the industry is pretty amazing, actually.
Dr. Edwards:It is. And especially because for me, the company that I had originally done my financing with, who which no longer exists, was a company that specialized in veterinarians and dentists because we are a unique unique niche where we need a lot of startup capital with really nothing to show for it. And they gave they, you know, promised me a certain amount, got approved, all the stuff. And it was literally, like, three or four months prior to opening, they decided to cut that in half. So I I opened the doors with not only did I have no working capital at all, I had to take some of the things I was going to purchase with that money and do separate leases and finances.
Dr. Edwards:So I leased my X-ray system through the company. I leased my blood machines through that company. So I had all these different little loans everywhere, nothing in the bank. So I I would count the appointments to see, like, am I even gonna make payroll? Okay.
Dr. Edwards:Well, if this one comes in and I get one more appointment, I'll have enough. It was literally that that close. And you start saying, okay. Well, I'll pay this one. I won't pay this one that month.
Dr. Edwards:And little by little by little, you your head starts to come above water. And next thing you know, you're you're clean with all your bills, and and and you grow from there. But it it was not gonna lie. It wasn't fun, and Yeah. It was worth it.
Steven:Yeah. That's it it's big lessons we learned that got you to where you're at today for sure.
Dr. Edwards:Exactly. 100%.
Kale:That was my next question. Was it was it worth it? I knew your answer would likely be yes, but, I'm glad I'm glad you said it was worth it.
Steven:Aren't we in the grocery industry, our family's stores, we had, loans with GE Capital. GE was in that in the space of lending. And in 02/2008, the guy that was in charge of that division called us up and said, can you find new financing for the loans? Because we're shutting the division down, and we need to sell the paper off. It wasn't that we necessarily had to, but they were asking us to to look for a new loan.
Steven:We had a long term loan commitment with this lending company that was going going out. Well, we weren't the lending issue. Actual lending company was. So it was a it was an interesting time period to be like, really? You're gonna ask us to go look.
Steven:We have to go for a new loan now because you guys screwed up, not us. Never heard of this before.
Kale:So what made you wanna exit the practice that you started?
Dr. Edwards:So it's it's interesting. I mean, there's a lot of reasons. I I guess the best way to say it is I was just done.
Steven:Mhmm.
Dr. Edwards:Like like, I I'm very clear in my life about when something feels right for me, when something doesn't when when it's time to to make it a shift. I most major major decisions in my life are made not make most all major decisions in my life have been made by a a momentary hit. Like, something just it comes to me like, oh, that was like, go to vet school. And summer of twenty nineteen, it was sell your practice. I had spent almost all of the spring of twenty nineteen desperately trying to find a building to buy because I was still in my leased building that I was going to spend million and a half dollars to build out to move my practice.
Dr. Edwards:Every single thing I tried to buy fell through. Buildings that had been on the market for years, and I offered asking price. The owner suddenly decided they weren't selling. It was very interesting. And one of my favorite sayings is man's rejection is God's protection.
Dr. Edwards:Right? Because all of a sudden, fast forward to August, and I just get this message, this, like, sell your practice. And I didn't know why. I I kinda was feeling done, me a little burnt out of of the whole thing at that point. Tired.
Dr. Edwards:I was just tired. But I knew there was another reason, and I just got into action. You know? Boom. Boom.
Dr. Edwards:Boom. Did everything I needed to do. You know? Got a a situation where I was going to sell, and I closed on the sale of my practice January twenty ninth of twenty twenty. And six weeks later, I knew why I had gotten a message to sell my practice because I would have let's just say having been an owner through COVID would have probably done me in.
Dr. Edwards:I I struggled. The the hardest part of ownership for me was difficult conversations or conflict. I loved my team. We we got along great. We laughed.
Dr. Edwards:We joked. I coached them. Everything was great except for when it wasn't, and that's when I really struggled. And having to navigate all the things that went on in COVID, would have been really, really hard for me. So I was extremely grateful that not only do I have a high level of intuition, I have learned to follow it.
Steven:That's great. Yeah. Because that that timing there happened right before everything a month before everything went. And was that March, or fifth when
Dr. Edwards:Yeah.
Steven:The announcements came out?
Dr. Edwards:Yeah. It was literally five or six weeks before. It was the very January. I was like, okay. I guess I'll sell my practice.
Dr. Edwards:And and I was glad that I did, and I was looking forward to other things. And then COVID hit, and I was like, oh. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Dr. Edwards:Everything changed.
Kale:Yeah. So when you left that that practice, did you have this vision, like, at the time that you were gonna work towards what you're doing now, or was this something you found along the way?
Dr. Edwards:So I this has been kind of a lifelong parallel journey for me along with Vetmed. I, again, started out with a degree in psychology. And and as you mentioned in the beginning, been studying transformation, self development, all of that in-depth for about fifteen to seventeen years. So when after I sold, after a while, people were like, oh, you should be a coach. You should be a coach.
Dr. Edwards:You know? You're so good. You have all this training, all this knowledge. And I was like, oh, yeah. I'd like to, but, you know, I need some training.
Dr. Edwards:Like, yes, I have a ton of training. And I love the fact that even today, I bring in so many different paradigms and schools of thought together in my coaching. But like I always say, just because somebody is an Olympic skier doesn't know mean that they know how to teach skiing. So just because I had all of that and I could have a great conversation with somebody didn't mean that I knew how to be a coach effectively. So I went back and did multiple coach training certifications.
Dr. Edwards:I'm an ICF credentialed coach now, and I have specialties in leadership and transitions. And I felt that was the perfect integration of everything I had been studying for so long with now how to effectively use it to help people, you know, get the most benefit from coaching that they can.
Steven:So a psychology degree comes in handy.
Dr. Edwards:It certainly does. Well, did all through the practice of veterinary medicine because we all know dogs don't drive themselves to the vet.
Steven:No. They do not. That is for sure. Well, the what is inspiration, though, there? I mean, people asking you, but you kinda knew you wanted.
Steven:What what was that moment, like, you mentioned where you're like, yeah. This is what I need to do.
Dr. Edwards:Think I always knew it because my how do I say this? My my passion or obsession with understanding how we as humans function has always been there. Because of everything that I had been doing, training programs, working with coaches all the way through my journey and through practice ownership, I not only wanted to use what I'm so passionate about, but I started to become more and more present to a desire to kind of pay it forward. Right? Like like, I I don't even know how I would have gotten through those years without, you know, not only the training, but, like, working with my coach, Melvin.
Dr. Edwards:And and now it's it's almost like it's an honor now to be able to take all of this experience, both in Vetmed as an owner, the all the other stuff, and now bring it forth to others, whether whether it's one on one or even just speaking to a group to to teach people some of these ideas that that are very teachable and and that it's totally normal that they don't already know it because it's our minds are not designed to see it on our own. But when we hear it, we go, oh. And so that I can now bring that to others and help them to to feel more satisfied to to to get unstuck. And it's such a cliche thing to say, but, literally, that's that's what I'm doing. And because possibilities, opportunities open up, and then it's like, oh, I never knew it could be this way.
Dr. Edwards:So when that happens, it's I can't even explain the feeling for me. It's it's just an honor and a privilege, and it's so like like, you know, when something happens and you're like, yes. Like, that's how it is for me. Like, when somebody has an moment, I'm like, oh, I love it. Because I know that experience and how freeing it is.
Dr. Edwards:And and we need it. You know? Mhmm. We we need it desperately.
Steven:I think that leads right up to the question we have right here. What are the most common mindset barriers in the veterinary industry?
Dr. Edwards:The veterinary world is and I don't need to tell anybody listening to this this, but I'll say it anyway. The veterinary world is like no other. It is amazing. It is it is intellectually stimulating as veterinarians and and and veterinary teams get to do things that people in human medicine never get to do. The variety, the the the the not only the knowing, but the doing, it's incredible.
Dr. Edwards:And at the same time, all of everything I just said creates a tremendous amount of stress and strain. Some of the mindset concerns in in veterinary medicine is, especially with the doctors, is that we're selecting for a certain type of person who make great doctors but may not always have been taught the skills needed to withstand the experience in the profession. So so the mind of diagnosing and understanding disease and all of the the technical things or being able to physically do a surgery is not the same mind always that knows how to deal with the clients or the employees or the the bullying from society. So so part of it is, I think, getting more education and more cultivation of awareness in individuals so that they can develop that resiliency. Obviously, there's a lot of financial stress, especially with younger younger generations of veterinarians.
Dr. Edwards:I mean, I I I don't even wanna tell you how much I paid to go to vet school. It's a fraction of what they're paying now. Like, I can't imagine what it would be like to come out of school with these these levels of of debt and and how that alone can have this experience of defeating defeatedness, if that's the word. So in general, I think that there is somewhat of a mindset in Vetmed of I hate to use this, but there there is a bit of victim mentality that I hear a lot. A lot of complaining, a lot of blaming, and and it it makes sense.
Dr. Edwards:And, of course, there is because of everything that people are bombarded with day in and day out. And it doesn't have to be that way. We can't change what missus Smith and mister Jones do, but we can. We don't have to look at it that way. We can learn to view the situations differently, have more empowering conversations, support each other, develop collaborative teams.
Dr. Edwards:Like, all of that is actually possible. Not easy. Not gonna lie. It's not easy. But there's there's I think there's somewhat of a blocks to it because as with a lot of things in life, people can't see it.
Dr. Edwards:They they just don't see how. And so I think that's part of the reason I'm so passionate on helping people to see how.
Steven:That's a great way to put it because that's the when you're when you're blinded by, you know, the the victimhood or the I I think I heard it at that partners when someone's getting my statistic about veterinarians on, you know, death by suicide, you know, list was third. And someone said, no. We're we're second. You know, like, you know, that it's almost kinda like, yeah. It's it's a it's a huge problem, but it's, like, almost like Yeah.
Steven:No. We're second. Like, it's interesting. It's hard to put a you you know the feeling on, but it's hard to put the words to it. And besides, the only solution is what you're saying is to to show them the how, the what's possible, and what's what can be real.
Dr. Edwards:Yeah. And I think, I believe, I feel strongly there needs to be more mutual support.
Steven:Mhmm.
Dr. Edwards:I mean, I I see on some of these Facebook groups, which, honestly, I don't even go on Facebook much anymore It's just gotten so political, but I Mhmm. Used to go on more and, you know, in some of the practice owner groups and things like that as as I've been in over the years. And my goodness. It's like people post anonymously, and and they they start their post with, please don't bash me. I do understand my mistake.
Dr. Edwards:What I'm asking is like, they have to preface it with, like Yeah. You know, with their with their proverbial guard up. Like like, they're expecting this onslaught of attack, and, boy, does it come. When I sit there and read through, I I just sit there amazed at these people. These are your your colleagues.
Dr. Edwards:Mhmm. These are people that maybe you didn't go to vet school with, but somebody you know went to vet school with or you you know what I mean? Like, this profession is huge, and it's not that big at the same time. Like, we're all, like, one community. We are one culture of veterinary medicine.
Dr. Edwards:And, boy, it's like we need to we say, like, we need to have each other's backs versus everybody having to watch their backs. So I I think part of a mindset shift in this culture needs to be, let's stop blaming and stop bashing and start supporting and holding each other up and holding each other to our greatness. And, yeah, you know what? We're gonna screw up. And when I do, I want somebody to sit there and and give me a hug and say, you know what, Jen?
Dr. Edwards:I've done it too. It's okay. Versus I can't believe you did that. You know, a totally different experience. I could go on all day about doing this.
Dr. Edwards:It's a very big value for me.
Steven:Well, I think what is interesting I think people in their own echo chamber. Right? Or and also that they're afraid to talk about what happened when what happened in their practice probably happened to practice across the street, to practice down the street, to practice across town. Right? But everyone thinks only it only happens to me when it's happened to everybody.
Steven:And, I say, they can get together and support each other, share stories. And I feel that's a a big part of your passion and ability to share stories that you've lived.
Dr. Edwards:There's definitely a level of relatability. Like, I've had some coaching clients that have shared that they they so much appreciated like, you know, like, for example, one client in particular, like, she she also works with a therapist, which a lot of people do. They work both with coach and therapist because they're different. Yes. And she would say but she'd say, I love talking to you because with my therapist, I'll say, you know, such and such happened, and I I was really upset.
Dr. Edwards:And then she'll say, well, tell me about it. Like, what was that like? Like, why did you get upset? And And she said, when I tell you that, you just you just nod your head. Like, you just know.
Dr. Edwards:You just get it. So so that that level of relatability is is important. You were saying about, oh, it happened to the practice down the street also.
Steven:Right.
Dr. Edwards:And how everybody thinks, oh, it's just me. Like, oh, something happened with a patient or under anesthesia or whatever. I missed the diagnosis or prescribed the wrong drug or whatever the the thing is. I would say, and and this is so important, it's the same thing mentally. And this is part of, I think, from a very young age where my passion and my interest came into us as people.
Dr. Edwards:Because while and and, again, this is speaking very general. But while we are all very different in how we think, how we perceive, you know, our backgrounds, our values, all of it, at a level underneath that, there is so many commonalities. Mhmm. Like I say, if you're human, you've got your stuff. Right?
Dr. Edwards:Mhmm. Like, nobody's immune. But yet, each person thinks there's something wrong with me. I'm so insecure. I have, you know, what people call impostor syndrome, which, you know, it's a whole another conversation.
Steven:Mhmm.
Dr. Edwards:But I, you know, I I'm insecure or I I have this feeling like I'm not smart enough or I have this feeling like I'm not good enough or that nobody's gonna like me or whatever the thing is. And they keep it like it's their little secret. You know? And then one day they, like you know, in a in a program or with a coach or therapist, they they reveal it as if and they wait for the reaction. And everybody's looking at them like, yeah.
Dr. Edwards:Like, well, I've got that too. Yeah. Like, if if you're human, you've got it. Like, there's nothing wrong with you. If you're experiencing beliefs that that that keep you stuck or insecurities or just doubts, crippling fear of doing something wrong, anxiety, all of it is totally normal.
Dr. Edwards:It is a universal human experience for the most part. Right. Maybe there's
Steven:some exceptions. There's outliers. There always are.
Dr. Edwards:You know, there always is. But speaking in generality, I just super, super love to emphasize how normal it is, and there's nothing wrong or broken about anybody. You just can't see it because that's the way our minds are designed, to not see it. That's why we need help. We need mirrors and other people.
Steven:That's beautiful. Yeah. We're we're we're designed well, especially in our society, we're designed to keep just going. Right? It's like just sweep it under and keep going.
Dr. Edwards:Nose to the grindstone.
Steven:Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.
Steven:What do you think?
Kale:Yeah. No. I mean, I think I think she said it perfectly. Yeah. I mean, there's there's not anything I can add to that.
Steven:Yeah. No. That's to make it better. Yeah. No.
Steven:But I can't think as though, like, or or this, you know, couple decades of, you know, being out of school here. What do you from the February to now, same, different, or just, you know, like, the level of this? Has it just gotten more, or is it still the same and just haven't been addressed? Do you have a feeling for for that?
Dr. Edwards:From my perspective, I think it's more because there's something that has been shifting in our society around around that because I think we've become obviously very separatist. I'm making up words today. I think people are more free with verbal onslaught than they used to be. And so there's more coming at people, veterinary professionals. That's that's who we're talking about.
Dr. Edwards:There's way back, if I had an upset client, I had an upset client. Never would I was I physically assaulted. Never was I verbally abused the way that happens now. So you take everything that always has been challenging about being a veterinary professional because, I mean, it's a great career, and and it's not easy. I mean, it's okay to say that.
Dr. Edwards:It's it's it is what it is.
Steven:Mhmm.
Dr. Edwards:And so I'm not averse to not easy. So so what's going to happen is when a person is experience experiencing an onslaught of energy, whether it's verbal onslaught, whether it's the criticizing, the blaming, the devaluing. I mean, that's a whole other conversation of the devaluing of veterinarian professionals by society. And they just sit there taking it, taking it, taking it, taking it, well, then, of course, there's going to be an experience of being a victim to it. The so that's normal.
Dr. Edwards:That's natural. And then what happens is that translates over to life. So it becomes kind of like, there's nothing I can do. This just sucks. My life sucks.
Dr. Edwards:I'm stuck. There's not you know, my team won't or my boss won't or I'm working for a corporate, and they don't care, and the clients don't care. And it just becomes this spiraling of a story inside of an experience. And while that experience is really real, the stories that go along with it aren't necessarily always true even though they feel true to that person in that moment. So when we can start to reframe that is when we can start to pull out of it.
Dr. Edwards:But I I do think that it's more. I I never saw people, maybe because we didn't have social media like we do now, never saw colleagues bashing each other the the way they do. And and it's just there's a level of kindness that has left in some individuals in society. And I on the flip side, I've seen a lot of people who are passionate about bringing it back. Yes.
Dr. Edwards:And and I and I I try to focus there. I try to bring my put my energy there, try to shed shed my light into the world because for every high vibration person who's putting out great energy, it counteracts many, many multiples of the opposite. And so that's I just try to focus on that. But I do think it's worse. I I do.
Steven:Well, yes. And that's we're we're talking about well-being. Right? We want well-being in the in the profession. So how how do you walk someone through that?
Steven:What's the how do you break someone you know, get get someone to that well-being? And that's the how. That's, what we wanna get to.
Dr. Edwards:Yeah. So for me, well-being is things are set up. Things, circumstances, environments, practices, whatever, lives are set up such that they're they're they're workable, not perfect. No things ever perfect for everybody. But they're workable and manageable and designable so that people can create what works for them within reason.
Dr. Edwards:Not that every person should be like, alright. I want everything arranged around me. It's not about that. But when when there are cultures you know, everybody talks about practice culture. Again, that's a whole another topic we could
Steven:get
Dr. Edwards:into. But practice culture is recreated every single day by everybody who walks in that door. You know? And when management, when leadership, and especially in these corporate entities, you know, to create wanna talk about well-being for your people, you know, a company that owns, I don't know, a 900 practices, anywhere in between or or fewer, there has to be a commitment from the top. There has to be a a plan.
Dr. Edwards:It can't be lip service because lip service is worse than no service. Mean, you tell people and then they sit there and roll their eyes and they say, yeah. I'll believe it when I see it. It actually enhances the resignation and the disengagement. It's actually worse.
Dr. Edwards:Well-being is actually having leaders and managers not only who care, because that's but that's not enough, but who are trained and have the resources and the knowledge of how to create experiences that work for people because practice culture is nothing more than an experience. What do people experience every day inside of this practice is how they then define the culture. And if what they experience is support and I got your back and I know this is really important. It's gonna be hard on the practice, but this event is really important for you. So we'll take the day.
Dr. Edwards:We'll figure it out. Not not every week, but but but that's those are the things that make make a difference. Not overworking people. And I I get, you know, there's the bottom line. Trust me.
Dr. Edwards:I'm I'm I was in business. I understand the bottom line and, you know, the money. And also understanding that on the other side of every bottom line, there's people. Mhmm. And the people matter.
Dr. Edwards:And I will also say from a business standpoint, these days in Vetmed, people are the rate limiting step. You know? Getting enough doctors, getting enough team members. You can have 10 doctors. If you've got two team members, those doctors aren't gonna be productive.
Dr. Edwards:You wanna get people, you wanna retain people so that the business can be productive. You be at the forefront of treating people well. You be at the forefront of allowing them to actually have happy lives that work. You will have all the employees in the world. Because at the end of the day, these are good people who wanna do a good job, but they also want to be happy.
Dr. Edwards:They want to have families. They wanna have fun and friends and workout and go to a concert and go to their cousin's wedding. That's what it that's basically, in my opinion, what a lot of it comes down to.
Steven:Well, no. It's that same thing as client experience. Right? Or it's that if you treat the client really well, have great experience, they're gonna go out and tell everybody about it. Not necessarily everybody, but they'll spread the word.
Steven:Right? The best way to get clients in your door is by having taking really good care of your current clients for sure. And I think it also comes down to it's that word trust. We become a less trusting society of of each other. And and doctor Peter Weinstein, he he said there's in a talk at WBC, there's three things, for trust as a must.
Steven:He said, one, having a sense of security and confidence when dealing with someone. Having a sense of security and confidence when dealing with someone. Two, having the ability to predict that someone will act in specific ways and be dependable. And three, earning a level of credibility that has been built up over time. And that kinda really just hit me because the security and confidence, right, with somebody, being able to have a good conversation, confident in the that you know your material.
Steven:The predictability too, the dependability. Right? To know that they're gonna do what they say, not that lip service. And then, of course, yeah, it it it takes time. It does take time to build that up, and it and you're always earning it.
Steven:So I like that that you're always you're always trust is given and earned daily. Just like you said, you think your culture can change daily. Those things are evolving. And so the more that people can go, how do I trust somebody? I think that's kinda the thing.
Steven:Because it seems like we're in a society that says you shouldn't trust anybody. And and that erodes Right. And it erodes it.
Dr. Edwards:It's to me, the security and trust or the security and confidence part of it is having security and how they'll show up, but it's also at a more vulnerable level, security in your own safety around that person. And I think that's because, again, there's this I don't know who took etiquette away at some point, but it's gone. And there's this, like, freedom of, like
Steven:Yes.
Dr. Edwards:Verbal vomit of on everybody from some people. And so when people don't feel safe, you know, psychological safety, some people call it, but just in general, people don't feel safe, they're not going to trust. Or they trust once, and then you betray their trust, and it's, like, notch in the in the in the back of the the brain. Never do that again. Mhmm.
Dr. Edwards:You know, just recently, I was talking with a friend who sold her practice to a corporate entity, which which is is typically a a good one. And there were some issues at the practice, and she went to the the original people that she's supposed to go to to kinda come in and help with some of this interpersonal stuff that was going on. And they completely betrayed her trust. Like, they just we won't go into the details, but it was like she's like, I will never ever go to them with anything again ever. So if we were to go to the top of that company and say, tell me about the cultures.
Dr. Edwards:Tell me about the coaching and the support that your regional people are providing at the practice level. I guarantee you that's not what they would describe. Mhmm. So what's happening is then they wonder, well, now that six months later, there was a problem, why didn't you come to us? And then they wanna look at that doctor and blame, and they did not cultivate trust.
Dr. Edwards:So, again, it's a huge monumental task, but it's the people at the top creating a culture of trust and the training necessary so that those people at the regional they probably had no misintention, but they had no clue what to say to her.
Steven:Yeah.
Dr. Edwards:They just did what they thought. Right? And it didn't work. And so it just becomes this big mismatch of everybody just trying and failing and not trusting, and guards go up. Survival mode.
Dr. Edwards:Right? I'm my mouth is shut. I'm not saying a word. I'll just put my nose down, do my job, and when my contract's up, I'm out of here. Is that what people want?
Dr. Edwards:Is that long long term sustainable for for businesses when people are, like, watching their clock? When the hell can I get out of here? Yeah. So it's trust is huge. Huge.
Dr. Edwards:Huge. Huge. Mhmm. And if you want employee engagement and you want employee loyalty and you want employee productivity so that people want to take that extra ten minutes to explain to missus Smith why the procedure is needed so that she books it. Multiply that by a thousand over your practices.
Dr. Edwards:Yeah. And the impact of those conversations not being had because people don't care because they don't trust you and they're not loyal to you and they're not engaged. You know, it's all people's stuff that I'm talking about. And at the end of the day, it all goes back to the bottom line. It's business, but you can't run a business without people.
Steven:No. You can't. No. There's no profit about people. They both go hand in hand for sure.
Steven:So yeah. Yeah. No.
Kale:I think it makes a lot of sense. I mean, the the if you look from the top down, I guarantee you those two conversations are different. The top down says, yeah. We do a great job at that. And the bottom up is like, yeah.
Kale:We it's terrible.
Steven:Yeah.
Kale:And so yeah. I mean, there's definitely a disconnect from the top to the bottom in a lot of these big organizations.
Dr. Edwards:And that's why I think that there needs to be more of a diagnostic process. Like, one of the things that I'm starting to branch into is, like, practice culture consulting. And it's it's like, you know, there's the people at the top, whether it's an owner or a bigger group, and they have their perception. And they have no idea what's actually happening. Like, what we we keep trying.
Dr. Edwards:We keep trying. We do this. We do that. And they, you know, the team, that they they just don't care. They just don't appreciate.
Dr. Edwards:They're all just entitled. Blah blah blah. Right? And nobody's wrong there. It's just a complete mismatch of experience.
Dr. Edwards:And I think sometimes it can take a third party to come in and have some conversations. And let's say, kind of like, as a doctor, this is how I think. Let's here's the presenting complaint. Let's do some diagnostics. Let's talk to a cross section of everybody and say, what's going on?
Dr. Edwards:What is your experience at work? Tell me about a time when you had a problem. How was it handled? How did you feel? Who said what?
Dr. Edwards:Blah blah blah. Compile all of that into a report and then say, here's here's what's really going on and and and here's some things to to shift it. Are you committed to that? So, again, at a big scale, you know, obviously, that would take a lot of people to do something like that, but investing the resources to to find out and to check-in. You know?
Dr. Edwards:We train our regional manners managers in this way. That's great. We're doing the leadership training. We're doing blah blah blah. Awesome.
Dr. Edwards:Now who's going back and saying, is it working? Are they effective? Right? So there has to just be that ongoing commitment, that ongoing inquiry. And at a small level, you know, oftentimes having another person do an assessment and say, what what's happening?
Dr. Edwards:Why can't I get my team? Why are they always upset with me no matter what I do? Blah blah blah. All the stories. And I lived it.
Dr. Edwards:I I get it. I say blah blah blah. I'm not dismissing it. I've I lived it all. I I get it.
Dr. Edwards:It's so hard. So hard, but it doesn't have to be.
Steven:No. It it doesn't have to be, but this is why this is so important, this conversation today. I really do believe in it. I know we're passionate about it because we talked about it. People to make change, they have to have their mindset right.
Steven:And so to have you, a veterinarian, and going in this, you know, coaching growth mindset field, I'd it it love I love it. It it makes me excited to see your your passion for that because it's needed, and it is a great profession. And to open things up honest, trustworthy, those are the things that are gonna help out so much. So if if someone wants to, get a hold of you, well, how are they gonna do that?
Dr. Edwards:They can go to my website, which is doctorJenniferEdwards.com, which d r for doctor. And if anybody is interested in either private coaching, team development, if you're looking for a speaker at a retreat, a conference, workshop, all of it. I love it all. Or if you want a practice culture, conversation, they can book a call with me. I'm always happy to jump on a free call if somebody's interested to talk about what they're looking for and whether it would be a fit to work together.
Dr. Edwards:That would be the best way.
Steven:You work around the country? Do you wanna you work remote? Do you work
Dr. Edwards:I work a lot remote, and I travel. K. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to Texas next month to to do a talk.
Dr. Edwards:So yes. I I travel. I was just in Vegas with you last month. Yeah. So yes.
Dr. Edwards:But coaching typically is over Zoom or similar platform. So Oh, good. Don't have to live near me.
Steven:Yeah. No. It's a our coaching's mostly over Zoom too because it's, that's where people the way people operate today. It saves time, and, it's good to see people in person for sure when you can. But for the most part, Zoom seems to be the way that works for sure.
Steven:You know, as we close out the, the podcast today, I'd like to think about it's that, hey. We've the the podcast is over. You've you've shut down the computer to Zoom, and maybe you're walking to get tea or, you know, or coffee or whatever your your drink of choice is after something like this. And and you're like, I wish I would have pointed out or said, or I wish they would have asked me. What is that?
Dr. Edwards:Something that I say every single time I speak, every single time I do a podcast. My key point, my thing that needs to be said, the most important thing is always the same. And that is that if you want to be happier, if you want to be fulfilled, if you want a great life, you need to take responsibility for it, which is the opposite of that victim mentality we were talking about. So if anytime you are shaming, blaming, or complaining, that is the opposite. It's too much to go into in detail now.
Dr. Edwards:However, that is the key. It doesn't mean everything's your fault. It doesn't mean your experiences aren't real. It doesn't mean it's not gonna be hard. And when you say, where can I be responsible?
Dr. Edwards:What choices am I making? Where am I what what am I putting up with? What am I tolerating? Then you kinda I always imagine, a fishing line. You know?
Dr. Edwards:We throw it out. It's like the reel. You are reeling back in your power to create and design your life because as long as it's their fault, you're gonna sit there crossing your fingers hoping they change. It's not gonna happen. And I always say there's no there's no happiness fairy that's gonna come and zap you on the head with her wand.
Dr. Edwards:You can do it. You are so much more powerful. Everybody out there is so much more powerful than I think they they are. Trust me. Own it, and you can shift it.
Steven:That's beautifully said. That's beautifully said. Thank you for allowing us to finish on such a high note, and you're right. And, hey, we're here to work together. It's great to make a new friend, doctor Jennifer Edwards.
Steven:Thank you so much for your time today. And I'm sure we'll have to do it again because there's a lot of topics we can dive into. We can get more specific on some topics and and, you know, noodle around on the podcast on it. Hopefully, help people do what you just said. There's so much they can accomplish.
Steven:So thanks so much for your time today. If you like what we've got going on, please subscribe to the channel, and, we'll have up on the betterpodcast.com information about doctor Jennifer Edwards. And if you have suggestions, comments, things you'd like us to do, check us on social media, Instagram, LinkedIn, and on Facebook. Thank you so much. I'm Steven Herman.
Steven:Cale Flasspuller. And doctor Jennifer Edwards, thank you so much for being on the Better podcast. Take care, everybody.