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Art of Spousing is for marriages that what to move from being mundane to becoming masterpiece relationships. Hosts James and Lisa Duvall share truths and lessons learned from their 30 years of marriage and over a decade of teaching, coaching, and speaking on marriage.
Podcast: Art Of Spousing
Episode Title: Episode 48 - Travis And Adelle Graham
Host(s): Guest 3
Guest(s): Guest 1, Guest 2
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Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:00:00 to 00:00:23
If you were to think of these filing cabinets, there's a past filing cabinet, a present filing cabinet and a future filing cabinet. And the filing cabinet has our files of our life in it. Imagine the past filing cabinet has all of our past in it. But what happens is we don't put them to rest there. We take them into our present where we can't be fully present with our family, with our kids, with our spouse, because the past is there.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:00:23 to 00:01:00
And then going into the future, which is supposed to be empty because it's future, it's supposed to be full of possibility, but instead it's full of predictability because we take our past and put it into the future and we have a predictable future that's always based on our past. Travis and Adele, thank you so much for being with us on Art Espousing. We would love to just start for our listeners to get to know about you and share your marriage story and actually how that led into the creation of the Noble Marriage. Thank you again for letting us be here to hang out with you guys. And we've been praying over this and excited for the interview.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:01:01 to 00:01:42
So what led us to the Noble Marriage? The story is really like me growing up. I was introduced to pornography at a young age and ever since then, I felt like my innocence was completely stolen from me. I have kept these secrets in my life, and we do a lot of coaching with husbands and wife, and that's one of the things we really look into, is these secrets that I would desire them. I would desire to have these secrets, but they were so destructive in my life, and they had such a huge impact on how I went through my life, how I saw women, how I interacted with women, the things I would go look at on the internet.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:01:42 to 00:02:04
It just completely sexualized my mind. And I still wanted to be an innocent boy who loved God and loved people. And it was this dichotomy of two different people in the same skin. Fast forward and we're married those secrets, they just completely destroyed our relationship too. It led me to being unfaithful.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:02:04 to 00:02:35
It led me to consuming pornography, or maybe even addicted to pornography and a lot of other things where these secrets had me trying to fill voids in my life that only God can fill. And those were alcohol opiates. I became addicted to those and many other things in my life, shopping and eating problems and so many things. But it led to the discovery of me being unfaithful. And that has led us to almost five years now of figuring out why did I do that?
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:02:35 to 00:03:05
Why did I completely destroy a relationship that I did not want to destroy? And so we have kind of come to that answer, but in the way of coming to that answer, we have learned great ways of healing our marriage. Yeah, it was in 2018 when we had just come through a really great summer season in our marriage. I would even say we fell back in love because shortly before that, I was telling my therapist, I don't even love him. What am I going to do?
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:03:05 to 00:03:27
I'm stuck in this marriage. I really was praying over that and praying that God would just rescue his heart. And I watched him do that because in 2018, he found Jesus in the spring. And so for the next six months, we started to enjoy a totally different relationship. I mean, he was really transformed.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:03:27 to 00:03:46
He was not the same person. And I was really interested in what can this relationship be like? And we fell back in love. And then in October that year, is when just a bomb went off in our lives. It was out there publicly, and so it was just devastating for me to walk through that.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:03:46 to 00:04:18
When I think back to those days, they're so blurry because I was in such a dark, deep pain that I had never experienced in my life. I had heard of other people walking through infidelity. I had this thought process of, that's never going to happen to me. We have a perfect marriage, knowing fully it wasn't. There were a lot of things going on under the surface, but we had developed a way of communicating that we avoided all of the important things.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:04:18 to 00:04:47
We were talking surface stuff, factual things, and that was about it. When I found out about the infidelity this world of perfectionism that I had tried so hard to create and put out there for the world to see just came crashing down. And I think that was so intentional by the Lord. I mean, he was really out to rescue my heart because I was selfish. I was prideful at first.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:04:47 to 00:05:10
I was really so broken at the same time, blaming Him that this is all his fault. The Lord really led me down a path of understanding. While I didn't have an affair, I didn't commit adultery, I was still unfaithful in my own heart because I had checked out of the marriage. Wow. And it started to open up personal responsibility for me.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:05:10 to 00:05:28
So, okay, if I am not responsible for this happening, what am I responsible for in this marriage? And what did I contribute to this marriage? I was able to see, like, I enabled a lot. I avoided a lot. There were red flags that I chose not to have conversation about.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:05:28 to 00:05:55
And so I really got to go down this path of discovering how our marriage ended up where it did, and together we were actually able to discover the why. That's what all the couples we work with is, why did this happen to me? And the answer on the other side of that is, I don't know. I don't know what to tell you. I don't know why I did what I did, no matter if it's a husband or a wife there's this I.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:05:55 to 00:06:06
Couldn'T answer the question to you when. You asked me and that's infuriating. I was so angry to hear him say I don't know. What do you mean you don't know? You've just wrecked our life.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:06:06 to 00:07:01
And so discovering that why together is what God has called us to share with other couples. Is there's a reason why? It has nothing to do with the betrayed and it has everything to do with the heart of the betrayer and the heart of the betrayed. I believe that when couples go through something as tragic as infidelity, it gives them a unique opportunity, a very special opportunity that other couples don't have access to because this pain is so deep that when you work through it and you allow God to heal and restore those hearts, there is something so much better. On the other side of that there's love and passion and just a bond of we got through something that was really horrible together and be able to build a new marriage.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:07:01 to 00:07:14
I think a lot of people they want to get back to the marriage that they had before but that marriage you can't have it back, it's gone. Would you want over? Yeah, exactly. Good point. Why would I want that back?
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:07:14 to 00:07:54
But there is this sense of like you destroyed it and I want to get back to that and you can't. And so you have to build something brand new from that and that's what we are just so passionate about walking other couples through creating a brand new. Marriage that's so know obviously you touched mean the most important thing is what Jesus did in your he can he can do in moments what takes a long time to do. But there's also some practical things I'm sure that you had to do to find healing and strength in your relationship to rebuild trust. What are some of those things that you guys had to do to find healing to create health and strength out of that brokenness there is a whole.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:07:54 to 00:08:20
Lot that comes to my mind and I'll just touch on a few just to get us started. The first one is I had to learn how to humble myself. I had to learn to let go of my pride. I had to learn to let go of the shame. That shame blanket, that 50 pound blanket that freaking holds me down and keeps me from hearing what she has to say about her pain and her hurt.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:08:20 to 00:08:44
Shame puts a veil over my eyes and keeps me from being able to see truthfully what's really going on in my relationship. I have to be able to listen to understand instead of listen to respond. I have to really listen to what it is you're saying and not be listening to come back at things she's saying but really listen. What is her heart saying to me? What's behind the words that she's saying.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:08:44 to 00:08:57
That's a different level of listening that I had to learn. I had to learn personal responsibility. My heart is my problem, my deal. Your heart is your deal. In fact, no one will take care of my heart like I will.
Guest 3 (Host) | 00:08:57 to 00:09:05
Yeah. And so I've got to be personally responsible for me. And I didn't want to do that at first. I was a coward. Nor is that common.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:09:06 to 00:09:28
Yeah, it is uncommon. It's actually more rare that we see that people are just in integrity and taking responsibility for their actions and their words. It's just much easier to blame everyone else and everything else. It started in Genesis Three when Adam and Eve sinned. They went out and put fig leaves on, and God came after them, which God is always coming after us.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:09:29 to 00:09:43
Everybody listening to this right now. God is coming after you. And he came after them, and he's like, what happened to you? What are you doing? And first thing they're doing is blaming, that woman that you gave me did this.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:09:43 to 00:10:04
And then she's like, that serpent. But the personal responsibility is like, I did it. I did it. And there's so much freedom that comes when I'm personally responsible for my words and my actions and how I show up in life. I can actually do something with that because that's truth, but I can't do anything with lies, which is victimhood.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:10:04 to 00:10:21
And so personal responsibility is another one. We call that BCD. No BCD. No BCD, no blame, complain, or defending what you're assigning that it's easy to kind of get in that pattern of blaming or complaining about something or defending yourself. Absolutely.
Guest 3 (Host) | 00:10:21 to 00:10:36
We always say no BCD allowed. Yeah, I like that. Forgiveness is a big one, knowing what forgiveness is and what forgiveness is, and we don't have time to go into that right now. But forgiveness is for you. Forgiveness is for you.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:10:36 to 00:10:56
Forgiveness is to release you from the prison that you have yourself in. And it's important. It's important to forgive because Christ forgave us first, and that's our model to use, and he freely forgave. And I need to be able to do that, too, because I get healing when I choose to forgive. Forgiveness of the other person.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:10:56 to 00:11:16
But more importantly, especially for the betrayer forgiving yourself. Forgiving yourself for what you have done. And a question that I ask people that is very helpful is if you're choosing not to forgive yourself, how long is that sentence for? Really determining how long that's for? So you can have some clarity around that.
Guest 3 (Host) | 00:11:16 to 00:11:38
Sure. And I think forgiveness is for the other person in the sense that it may allow them to forgive themselves through your forgiveness. I saw that in our own relationship, that as I forgave you, you were able to forgive yourself even more. We often talk about you, draw the circle around yourself and work on everyone in the circle. You're just responsible for yourself.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:11:38 to 00:11:48
But what did you do? Or how did you rebuild trust? Or what did Travis do to rebuild trust in your marriage? Because I would imagine that would be a big thing to know. It's a process.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:11:48 to 00:12:22
It doesn't happen overnight. And I know with some couples that we've worked with, the betrayer is very eager for the betrayed to get the healing and move on and when is she going to trust me, when is he going to trust me again? And those are very normal things to go through, and it's just not an overnight thing. What I really appreciated about Travis and I'm learning, the more we work with couples, how rare it is. He was very much about integrity.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:12:23 to 00:12:56
Integrity is what I say. My actions line up with that. And he redefined himself and who he wanted to be and started showing up that way. And so if he said, I'm going to be loyal to this marriage and it's just you and me from this point on, then his actions need to line up with exactly what he's saying. And then over time of him doing that, I started to naturally trust him because I was seeing his actions line up with what he's saying.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:12:56 to 00:13:31
The more he showed up in integrity, the more I was trusting. And we put up a lot of boundaries that I really needed in the beginning. And as that trust has been built, we've been able to readjust our boundaries because I needed things in the beginning that I don't need now. I don't need to know his whereabouts every second of the day, but I needed that in the very beginning. I needed as much disclosure as he could give me to put me at rest, because my mind was searching for all the ways that he's dishonest.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:13:31 to 00:13:40
And so I needed him to really upfront. Give me honest truth. This is what's going on. This is who I'm calling. This is who I'm texting.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:13:40 to 00:14:09
This is where I'm going. This is when I'll be back. Little things like that just really help put my mind at ease so that I could focus on my healing and not focus on what are you doing and are you going to do this again. I also just want to speak to the spouse that does not have a spouse that's in integrity. My heart goes out to them because it's a totally different situation on how to rebuild trust when the other spouse is not being trustworthy.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:14:10 to 00:14:37
What I just want to say to you is that God is calling you to a deeper connection and relationship with Him, and that's really where your focus needs to be. Because when I took my focus off of Him and on God, it really gave me a new perspective of my healing journey and what the Lord wanted for me in this. And it also allowed God to really work in Travis without me being in the way. Yeah. Right.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:14:37 to 00:15:01
And so there's a letting go. There's a surrender of your spouse, especially if they're not being trustworthy. The tendency to control is huge, and it becomes a parent child relationship, and it's just really unhealthy. So learning what does it look like to really surrender your spouse and your marriage over to God? That's so good.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:15:01 to 00:15:22
That is powerful. Would you say that y'all came together? Did you make requests of Travis, like, these are the things I want you to do, or did you let him come first with like, these are the things I'm going to do for you, or was it a collaborative conversation to come to what you needed, which was maybe more boundaries at the beginning. That lessened how did you all navigate that? I am so grateful.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:15:22 to 00:15:52
We had a therapist that we reached out to immediately, and I was really grateful because she helped me navigate those things, because in my mind, am I being crazy? Am I crazy for asking these things and requesting these names? Because it's a whole new world that you're in. So she helped me navigate what was important to me, what did I really need for my healing versus what was just making me angry? And so I needed something because of that.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:15:52 to 00:16:12
That is great. And so she helped me really create a list that I did request. Travis, these are the things I really need from you so that I can focus on myself and my own healing. That's great. And then he I'm just so grateful said, yes, I will do whatever you need me to do to help your healing.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:16:12 to 00:16:32
I love. Yeah. So I want to take a moment and just turn our attention to the issue of pornography. Sadly, it's such a common issue in marriages today. Travis, I know that's part of your story, so can you talk a little bit about how you found freedom from pornography and talk about if somebody's listening today and this is prevalent in their marriage relationship?
Guest 3 (Host) | 00:16:33 to 00:17:00
What are some things that you would say to the individual or to the married couple about this topic in marriage? First of all, it's not a man thing. It is a man and a woman thing, and it is an epidemic, and it is horribly destroying people marriages, relationships, families. It has a ripple effect that is absolutely destructive, and it just breaks my heart. It breaks my heart that I was involved in that.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:17:00 to 00:17:22
It breaks my heart that I experienced that, and that it's continuing on, and it's way worse than it ever was when I was a kid. And what's great about it is there's absolute freedom for you listening right now, absolute freedom that's available to you, for you. God wants to set you free from this. A couple of things that come to my mind. One is, you know what?
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:17:22 to 00:17:44
It may not be pornography. It may be many other things, but we're all looking for God and we're all looking to have this vertical relationship with God that fills us up, that makes me whole and complete, that restores me from my brokenness. But we all go about it different ways. And one of those ways is pornography. And so the first thing I need to really look at is, why am I going after this?
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:17:44 to 00:17:55
Why am I searching for this? And that's the reason is I've got to fill myself up with God. I've got to have the vertical relationship. There's also a pain that's being avoided. And so it's an escape.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:17:55 to 00:18:19
It is. It's an escape of pain. And what we have discovered together, there's a root level heart issue. And when Travis really peeled back the layers of his life, he was able to see that that root wound that the enemy has had him in bondage over is I'm unworthy. And those two words, they sound like so small.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:18:19 to 00:18:41
I've watched it impact this man's life in astronomical ways. And now watching him walk in freedom, he is worthy because that's who God says he is. Walking in freedom is extremely attractive. I mean, it's hot, babe. He looks different.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:18:41 to 00:19:09
He acts different. When someone is showing up unworthy or maybe it's not good enough or I'm a failure or everyone has something, it doesn't look good on us. Well, here's what happens when I show up unworthy, when I feel unworthy, when I feel not good enough, when I feel unloved. And by the way, you and 8 billion people listening to this or in the world experience the same thing. When I feel unworthy, my actions are consistent with my feelings.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:19:09 to 00:19:20
That means that in our marriage, if I feel unworthy, I'm going to show up to you unworthy. And he did. And she's going to feel it. She's going to sense it. It's going to happen around anything that we feel.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:19:20 to 00:19:45
And if you were to think of these filing cabinets, there's a past filing cabinet, a present filing cabinet, and a future filing cabinet. And the filing cabinet has our files of our life in it. Imagine the past filing cabinet has all of our past in it. But what happens is we don't put them to rest there. We take them into our present, where we can't be fully present with our family, with our kids, with our spouse, because the past is there.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:19:45 to 00:20:23
And then going into the future, which is supposed to be empty because it's future. It's supposed to be full of possibility, but instead it's full of predictability because we take our past and put it into the future. And we have a predictable future that's always based on our past. And so what we have to do is we have to take our past and we have to settle it. We have to put the file back into the past filing cabinet and shut it so that we can be fully present right now with our family and have a future full of potential and possibility and what she's talking about is I had to go back and say, hey, you know what?
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:20:23 to 00:20:49
When I was molested as a child I felt unworthy. When I saw pornography for the first time I felt unworthy and it kept going that way through the rest of my life. And by the way we all have something that happened to us in our childhood that put some type of thorn, the lie that Satan will write on our heart that you are something. You are something. That's not the way God created you to be and God created you to be powerful.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:20:49 to 00:20:54
That's right. You are loved. You are cherished. You are chosen. You are redeemed through Christ.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:20:54 to 00:21:24
But the enemy doesn't want you to believe that. Yeah, that's right. And the cycle is the feeling of unworthy creates the bondage in the sin. It does because the person on the screen thinks I'm worthy or that person outside my marriage thinks I'm worthy because we're looking to fulfill the lack that I have. So discovering that why has been extremely eye opening on how the enemy really works.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:21:24 to 00:21:37
And he starts when we are kids and he uses that as we get older. I want to throw a few more things out there. Yeah, go for it. So what can happen is we can say, you know what? Thank you Travis, that's great information.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:21:37 to 00:21:48
I really want to do those things and I am solid on my identity. I'm solid on my purpose. I'm going to take my past and I'm going to put it in the past where it belongs. And you know what? I'm not going to come into agreement with the lies of the enemy.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:21:48 to 00:22:02
I'm going to believe God's truth. Thank you Travis for all that. But you know what? We still have a subconscious program that has us doing the things that we do on a daily basis. Like when you brush your teeth you don't think about it when you drive to work you don't think about how you got there.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:22:02 to 00:22:32
There's a subconscious program and so we have to retrain our body. We have to retrain our mind. So all this stuff that I gave is great but we still have to have actions that go along with know things like software to be able to have accountability. Have an accountability group of same sex people that love you, that love Jesus and want something good for your marriage. Those are the criteria that I would give anyone and that will call you out and have good hard questions for you.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:22:32 to 00:22:48
That's important for an accountability group. So there's things that we need to do because we need to reprogram our mind and that's going to take some time. Usually around 63 days. It takes 63 days to reprogram three groups of 21 to reprogram our mind, our subconscious. So those are just a couple of thoughts.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:22:48 to 00:23:01
I love it. Well I mean that's Scriptural Apostle paul said to be transformed by the renewing of your mind. There is a transformational process that happens in your mind. And so that's really great that you brought that out. Yeah.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:23:01 to 00:24:01
I think what couples are really missing, and this is what has blown my mind so much, being on the other side of pornography, is that a lot of times when the person that has this secret of pornography, when they are found out, it's almost like, oh, now I can't do that anymore. And it's because of her or because of him or whatever it looks like in the marriage, but there's a loss of something in their life even though it's a sin that they don't want. What has blown my mind is what they're missing out on because pornography, because God designed sex to be so wonderful and the impact that pornography has on the human brain is it alters the brain. It takes away the ability to experience pleasure, not just sexually, but in life because it is a super stimulus. So that means it is stimulating the brain so much that real life just can't stimulate us.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:24:01 to 00:24:37
That's right. And so there's this you don't do it for me and so I've got to go outside the marriage to get it. And if couples could just really get that the best sexual intimacy and intimacy alone involves a covenant within the marriage that is monogamous and it is a priority, god will bless your intimacy in your life. And oh my gosh, it has just been so incredible to rediscover our sex life after pornography, after the transformation of the body and the mind. So that's what I think couples knew more about.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:24:37 to 00:25:18
Is there's something wonderful that's waiting for you, but you have to let go of it first. There's so much hope in what you all have talked about. I mean, there's like so much hope that I know that listeners that are going, I'm in the middle of this and I don't see how I'm going to get to the end of it. Great practical tools, but one of the cool things that of course I get the privilege of seeing the two of you interact, but I know that people are going to hear it, but the honor that you have for one another, it's just beautiful. And I go, this kind of dialogue that's honest but honoring and healthy is just that models so much and I'm so excited for so many there's so many layers of just great healing in this conversation.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:25:18 to 00:25:32
Now, I know you guys have written some resources. What have you created that you would recommend for couples listening today that they maybe find themselves in this situation? Well, first of all, thank you. Wow, thank you for that acknowledgment. I really appreciate that.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:25:32 to 00:25:51
And man, I do feel honored by you. Wow. So, yes, God has called us to provide resources because we do individual and we do marriage coaching. And with the intensives. And we have discovered that we don't have the ability to keep up with the amount of people, the demand that's reaching out to us and we want to help.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:25:51 to 00:26:29
So we created an online academy that has multiple courses on it. But more specifically, there's one course that I would highly recommend based on this topic or infidelity or betrayal of any kind, and that is Walking Through Betrayal. It is a nine session series and it's really a guide, a step by step guide that the betrayer and the betrayed can parallel walk the road of healing together. Because what we found is when this happens, if both couples want to get healing, they kind of don't know where to go or what to do, and they go get healing separately. And usually that's not the same type of healing and sometimes they get pulled apart.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:26:29 to 00:26:59
But in this right here, they're both going to walk together and it's going to be a God honoring way of getting the healing that's step by step that will address everything that we have thought of, that the Holy Spirit has provided to us in a nine session series. It's really not that long. I think the videos are like 15 minutes, ten minutes, very digestible. And it's also designed for individuals that have a spouse that just doesn't want to go down the healing journey. You still deserve healing.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:26:59 to 00:27:31
And it's so important that we take care of the wounds that are in our heart. And so an individual can walk through this course, they can watch all the videos or they can choose to only watch the videos that pertain to them. And so that's what's unique about this. And that is what I would say would be best for couples that are in the middle of this crisis. They are in the thick of it because that will help guide them through the grief and guilt and shame and how to have communication, what questions to.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:27:31 to 00:27:56
Ask, how to create emotionally safe place for each other to share. Yeah, I would say that would be for betrayal and then the next step after that. And we talked about a few things from that course today is called Becoming Whole and Complete. And that is looking at me like, god, what do you want to do in me through this crisis that you're allowing me to go through? It is about personal responsibility and personal growth.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:27:56 to 00:28:15
It is the why that we were talking about it's, how to find it. And so they go side by side really beautifully. But either one would really support anyone who's going through betrayal or any kind of crisis in marriage. So we have the online academy. We're in the process of writing a book that will be a complement to that particular course.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:28:15 to 00:28:51
We have no idea when that will be coming out, but we do have an online community that will help support that book. Through walking through betrayal. Yeah. It's a community where couples can connect with each other, support each other, but also we are looking to have engagement about the creation of this book. And so we'll be asking questions and sharing feedback and just learning more about where the couples that are hearing our story, where are they at in their story to connect us and help us really know how we can help these couples best.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:28:51 to 00:29:05
And I have one last one. We have YouTube, The Noble Marriage and all that's free, and there's 160 something videos on there. And then right now Media and all that. If you have an account that's free too, we're on right now, Media, right? I love it.
Guest 3 (Host) | 00:29:05 to 00:29:19
And you were generous to offer a special discount to listeners, right? Yes. If you go to our website and maybe you can put it in the show notes. Yeah, we will for sure go to walking through betrayal. It is the code art of spousing and you get 75% off.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:29:19 to 00:29:28
The most we've ever given. That's amazing. As a discount code. That is amazing. We are just so passionate about helping however we can.
Guest 3 (Host) | 00:29:28 to 00:29:35
So generous. So generous. So thank you so much. We'll definitely put all the information in the show notes and so many good resources there. And your website is just beautiful.
Guest 3 (Host) | 00:29:35 to 00:30:13
Anyways, we talked about that earlier, but so many tools there. Okay, so as we wrap up, I wanted to know if there was one marriage tip or a pro tip tool that you use that you would give to our listeners today to help them in their journey. Yeah, the first one that I have is how to relate to your spouse. How to have good communication with your spouse would be come from curiosity instead of judgment. So being curious about your spouse, what they're saying, what's really going on in their heart rather than judgment is I am looking for my spouse to say something that I'm not going to agree with or that's going to hurt me in some way.
Guest 1 (Guest) | 00:30:13 to 00:30:30
Or I'm looking for their ill intention. And statistically, the majority of marriages, they're looking at their spouse as having ill intentions. So it's curiosity versus judgment. Love it great. For me, I would just say we use a distinction called are you committed or attached?
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:30:30 to 00:31:01
And when you're looking at the healing journey, sometimes I can be attached to how I think things should look and then if they don't go that way, I'm actually disappointed and upset. But if I'm committed to the overall healing that we are restored and we are being filled up by God, then I take different actions and the steps in between can look all kinds of different ways when I'm being committed. I love that. I love that. Well, thank you guys for joining us today.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:31:01 to 00:31:16
This has been fantastic. I know there's going to be a lot of fruit, good fruit from this, but we just pray. Blessing on your ministry and just what God has taken, that he meant for evil. And you literally have lived this out that he is using it for good. And so we love that.
Guest 2 (Guest) | 00:31:16 to 00:31:19
Thank you so much. Thank you for having us today. It was such an honor.