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A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.
Emily: Is that your recommendation?
Animorphs?
Ben: mean, it's a story where
people turn into wolves.
Emily: There we go.
Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to
Progressively Horrified, the podcast
where we hold horror to progressive
standards it never agreed to.
Tonight we're talking about a movie
that was sold to me, I feel like, as a
queer romance involving werewolves and
turned out to be a thing about child
endangerment and, and lots of kid death.
Also there are musical numbers,
multiple, more than one
musical numbers in this movie.
Ben: lots of kid death.
Jeremy: An uns, a not
insignificant amount of kid death.
We're talking about good manners.
This is, yeah, this is our
second Brazilian movie in just
a couple of weeks along with
Ben: Yeah.
Are we doing Brazilian month?
Is this a theme we decided
Emily: Gay Brazil,
Ben: kind, or did this just
end up being the schedule
Jeremy: You know, our, our pride
just ran extra long, I feel like, and
there were multiple Brazilian movies
within our, our pride group here.
Ben: Brazil feeding the
Brazil, feeding the gaze.
Sara: Yeah.
Jeremy: I am your host, Jeremy Whitley.
And with me tonight, I have a pan of fire.
I have a pan.
me tonight, I have panelists,
cinephiles, and Cenobites.
First, they're here to challenge
the sexy werewolf, sexy vampire
binary, my co host Ben Kahn.
Ben, how are you tonight?
Ben: let's be honest, so long
as I'm here, you do have a pan.
Emily: Aw,
Jeremy: Absolutely.
And the cinnamon roll of Cenobites,
our co host Emily Martin.
How are you tonight, Emily?
Emily: I am wondering, cutest
werewolf baby, let's go.
Ben: I did find this to be
a very cute werewolf kid.
Good design for a werewolf child.
Now, I don't, I, tend to have a policy.
When we're watching non Hollywood
movies, I don't like to rag on
this, on CGI or special effects.
Like, I understand when it's people
just trying their best with what they
got when they don't got that Hollywood
150 million dollar budget's going on.
And while I love this design for a
werewolf child, anyone else get reminded
of, The ugly Sonic design, like the
original live action Sonic design.
Emily: getting some Sonic
vibes and I wasn't sure why.
Ben: It's ugly Sonic!
Emily: Oh my god.
Jeremy: Okay, before we get too deep
into that, we should also, uh, welcome
our guest writer and podcaster and
friend of the podcast, Sara Century.
Sara, welcome back.
Sara: Hi, it's great to be here
talking about, yet again, a
movie that I love so, so much.
Emily: This is a lovable film.
Jeremy: Yeah, this,
uh, this is a wild one.
Sara: I love it.
Emily: concur.
Jeremy: This, I believe, was on your
initial list when I asked you like,
what movies do you want to talk about?
It was like, up there in the first couple.
Sara: Yeah, I mean, this would
be, to me, I mean, I've watched a
majillion, bajillion movies, but I
gotta say this is in my top 20 easily.
I love this movie.
Jeremy: not to be like at all shady
about this movie, but I would have
gladly shut it off at the halfway
point, which I was sure was going
to be the end of this movie.
And then there was
another movie afterwards.
Ben: Oh, this movie takes a hard
turn, like, right at like an hour in,
into a completely different movie.
Jeremy: yeah, there was a point
where I was like, I was sure I was
five minutes from the end of this
movie and I got a phone call and
I paused it to my, to my alarm.
There was an hour left in the movie.
I was like, How?
How?
Sara: Pivot.
Jeremy: Yeah, they literally just,
you know, there's a time jump and then
there's a whole nother movie after that.
Ben: we get good manners, Shippuden.
So, to reflect the dual nature of
this movie, I will be recapping
the first half and Emily will
be recapping the second half.
Emily: But Jeremy, can
you give us the specs?
Jeremy: yeah, we should say both halves
of this movie are written and directed
by Marco Dutra and Juliana Rojas.
Our one main character,
IsabĆĀ©l Zuaa, she's fantastic.
She's in this whole thing.
She is Clara, the nurse, who will sort
of cross over between these two stories.
We also have, uh, Marjorie Estiano, who is
the mother, who's, you know, the pregnant
mother in the first half of this movie.
Ana, she's also great.
And then, uh, Miguel Lobo plays Joel, her
son, who will sort of be the other main
character of the second half of the movie.
Ben: God, Ana is such, I can fix her,
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: and you know you can't,
Jeremy: it's also like, Ana is
one of those characters that
she's, at her most attractive when
she's also at her most worrying.
Ben: Oh yeah.
I want her to destroy my
life and credit score,
Sara: and she will.
That's like what she's here for.
She's on her way to doing it to Clara.
She's just like, Hey, what's up?
I'm going to know you for about two
months and your whole life is going
to be completely affected by it.
The second half of the movie is
the fallout from Ana, I love.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: Ana had an affair and made
it everyone else's problem,
Emily: Like multiple times,
Sara: yeah.
And her family sounded terrible.
So, I mean, it is everyone's
problem, but definitely.
You can see that she's in
a pretty tough spot too.
Jeremy: her family is like, they
live out in the country, they have
a ranch, She has cowboy boots with
actual diamonds, like, studded in them.
So, like, that's the kind of, of
rich Brazilian we are, we are dealing
Ben: There's so much about Ana's
family that I really thought was
gonna factor in that turned out not
mattering or ever being explained.
Emily: she was a horse girl,
Sara: Yep.
Ben: Oh, that, that checked out.
Sara: Yep.
Jeremy: No horses appearing in this film.
Sara: Probably for the best.
Yeah.
Emily: oh
Ben: I mean, there's a point
where she's like, Hey, tell me
about the animals you killed.
And she's like, fucking what am
I, the governor of South Dakota?
No.
Sara: Oh man.
Emily: she, her family was
the governor of South Dakota,
with that kind of, decor.
Ben: I mean, she just has
like, what, a random, like,
cow head hanging on the wall?
Two
Emily: cow heads.
There's one on the ground
and one on the wall.
Ben: cow heads!
Emily: two, ah, ah, ah.
But take us, tell us a story, Ben,
Ben: Yeah, so our, again our gay little
werewolf saga starts with Clara needing
a job because she was unable to finish
nursing school and has been unable to
hold down, uh, any other steady job.
It's alluded to, never explained.
Never comes back up.
she got that nursing degree in the
time skipper, which is like, fuck
it I'm already raising a werewolf.
Might as well just forge a
nursing degree while I'm at it.
Jeremy: Also, like, in this initial
interview with with Ana, it sounds
distinctly like Clara has killed a man.
Like, the number of questions she
dodges and steps sideways from,
it's like, Oh, her name isn't Clara,
and she is on the run from, you
know, multiple government agencies.
Ben: is The energy Clara is bringing
to this interview is like someone
signing up to be on a fishing boat
A profession I believe
scientifically made up 80 percent
of people on the run from the law.
Jeremy: And somebody whose
only questions on the fishing
boat are, when are we leaving?
Ben: Yeah.
Emily: Yeah, yeah.
Ben: Her only reference is her
landlady, who she owes money to.
Emily: I don't know what it is, but I
guess, like, I don't know how it happens,
but apparently only older women with
orange cats own property in this universe.
Like, the only landladies that
we see are older women with
Ben: Are those different landladies?
I thought that was the same landlady.
Sara: I think isn't the
landlady is the same landlady.
She has the same, yeah,
she has the same name.
So.
Jeremy: um,
Ben: mostly was going by the same cat.
Sara: It's also like kind of a surprise
that you, that all of that with Ana
would happen and then you would just
go right back to your apartment.
Emily: Yeah, after that landlady was
so bitchy, but I guess she was cool,
Ben: Well, she let her build a
whole fucking safe room, like.
Sara: they have a complicated
relationship, I'll say.
Ben: the
amount of subcontractors that
needed to come in, like, there's
no way this was a DIY project.
She didn't go down to
Brazilian Home Depot.
Emily: I think that's why every
no one was fucking surprised
that Joel but anyway, continue.
we're getting way ahead of ourselves here.
Ben: Because, honestly, there's a lot
more to talk about in the second half.
All of my notes are from the
second half of this movie.
So, yeah, she's going to be interviewed
today with Clara, Ana, who is pregnant,
and in a nice apartment, and just got
a hot mess, just radiating off her,
Jeremy: she's made, she's wearing
a dress made entirely of red flags.
Emily: And fur!
Ben: and even pregnant, you will just want
to tear that red flag dress right off her.
And then get stuck raising a werewolf
baby for the rest of your life.
Um, look, we've all been
there, we all had that phase.
Sara: Yep.
Ben: and yeah, and by helping Ana
through a moment of, uh, pain, Clara
wins the job despite being sketchy
as fuck and wildly unqualified
Sara: And just lying.
Ben: Yeah, just lying.
Just full on fucking lying.
Emily: I'm sorry, but I really need to,
we need to specify, helping Clara through,
or helping Ana through a moment of pain.
She gave Ana a hot massage,
Sara: Yeah, it's
hot.
Emily: Ana was like, when can you start?
I'm
Sara: You're hired.
Yeah, you're
hired.
Immediately.
On the spot.
Jeremy: I mean, I they do
have complimentary, like,
shades of red flag, like,
Sara: totally.
Jeremy: they're both like, you're really
shady, but also I'm really shady, so
I don't know, I mean, I guess this is
probably the best we should, we can do.
Ben: they're freak matches.
the power dynamics of this relationship
never stop being so weirdly fucked.
Sara: Yeah.
And weirdly hot.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: oh yeah!
the dynamics shift all over the place.
you'd think at some point, like, from
one end to the other, at some point
it would cross over into normal,
just like in a transistory period.
But no, it is a free roaming particle
that only knows how to be weird
and fucked up and uncomfortably
Sara: yeah, Clara's like, I will
see your classism and raise you, one
lock you in your bedroom at night.
Jeremy: Yeah, I, I feel like on
the classism front too, like, it's
worth mentioning just how Brazilian
this movie is, and that like, Clara
is, very dark skinned black woman.
Ana is a very light skinned white woman.
Nobody mentions either of those things
throughout the entirety of the movie,
despite the fact that the white woman
is rich and the black woman is poor
and they live on opposite sides of
town and Also, that their relationship,
Clara's relationship to Ana varies on
a scene to scene basis as to whether
it's girlfriend, employee, or servant.
Ben: Yes.
it
shifts at a
Jeremy: in, inside of a scene.
Ben: It doesn't help that their first
sexual encounter is, well, sleepwalking?
Sara: maybe,
Ben: bunch of consent issues.
In general, I'm gonna say
don't kiss sleepwalking people.
Sara: yeah, but it doesn't
seem totally clear,
Ben: movie.
It's really fucking hot though in this
Sara: but to be, yeah, no, I'm gonna say
I agree with you before I try to, I wasn't
trying to play devil's advocate on that,
Ben: Yeah,
Sara: it was
Ben: hot.
It's hot.
Look, don't do it.
Look, we talked about this in Twilight,
sometimes toxic fantasies are okay.
Sara: Yeah, yeah, that's true.
Emily: I wasn't
here for Twilight, so I
Jeremy: It is the first time that
she encounters her sleepwalking.
So this is not like a known thing.
She is
Sara: Right, she doesn't
Jeremy: going through the, going through
the refrigerator with crazy fucking
eyes, um, and proceeds to like sniff her.
And then, it is important that Ana, who is
the one who is asleep, does the kissing,
uh, or at least initiates the kissing,
Sara: the smelling and the biting.
Ben: Oh
Jeremy: Um,
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: Well, it seemed like it was
more a scratch on the shoulder.
There's a sliding, because
before that, she goes out to
a bar where she meets a girl,
Sara: Ah, hottie.
Ben: uh, hi, and that's just how we
get our queer establishing moment.
And there's a sliding door movie moment
where she just goes off with that
Sara: Gloria.
Yeah, Gloria, she writes her number
down, leaves the lipstick on the napkin.
It's like,
Ben: from Gloria.
Oh, I,
Sara: are flying.
Ben: Gloria.
Sara: That's how I felt too.
I was like, fourth movie, fifth movie.
Let's keep it going.
Jeremy: I'm also fascinated by the, like,
shift in, in the way that Clara acts in
that scene as compared to the rest of the
scenes, where, like, she is, whenever she
is in the apartment you know, with Clara,
especially before it becomes a whole
relationship thing is a very like quiet,
submissive, like, trying not to lose her
job kind of, air to everything she does.
Whereas in the, in the bar, she is giving
like a, like a hard butch energy of, of
just like, Oh, of course you're going
to come sit at my table and talk to me.
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: Yeah, of course you are.
Emily: and handsome.
Ben: When are we going to get a movie
with our Hey Mama lesbian representation?
Emily: is it me, or did Gloria give, like,
a slightly younger out on the town hotness
that, like, the landlady could have given?
, There was something there.
There were some parallels there
that I picked up on What's
going on with Donna Maria?
But anyway
Ben: Yeah, so, this first half, like,
because the vibe very much changes,
this first half is much more queer
and very sensual it's very dark, it's
very mysterious, it is very much you
don't quite know what's going on, it
becomes increasingly clear that you're
dealing with werewolf shit, but at the
onset, it is very much a mystery that's
unfolding as Clara just finds her life
And her, you know, professional life,
romantic life, living situation, more
and more entangled with Ana, whose
background is very fucking mysterious,
who has some creepy shit going on, and
it really builds up to just this idea
that Clara is in more and more danger,
Sara: the meat thing.
She wants meat.
She's gotta eat meat.
Ben: Oh, yes, there's a way where,
like, and I'm bouncing around, but
again, this is very vibes based, which
is why I wanted to focus so much on the
feel of this, because here's the plot.
Pregnancy shit happens, so we're
gonna bounce around a little bit,
and then we get to the climax of Act
1, and then we have our intermission
but, you know, we get stuff
like, The fridge is full of meat.
That's all Ana bought.
And then the doctor says no meat and Clara
starts, and this is so fucking gay Clara
starts putting her blood into Ana's meals.
Emily: well, let's not, put the
cart before the horse, because she's
getting meat, and then Clara puts
her blood in the meal after she sees
Ana sleepwalk through the city find
a stray cat and eat the stray cat,
Sara: And is horrified.
Ben: that.
I, uh, I, I hated that.
I, I did not like that one
Sara: Well, Clara's with you.
Clara was very upset about that.
And it's an act of trying to get her
to stop doing that, I think, that
she starts putting blood in her food.
Because then she kind of repeats it later.
But yeah, that's the second movie
that we're here to talk about.
Ben: it's good foreshadowing for
the immediately following sequel.
Emily: the orange cat is fine.
This was a different cat So we have a sad
cat death, but we do have a happy cat life
Jeremy: yeah, nobody loved this cat.
This cat was a loner, a
real asshole, honestly.
Emily: I love that cat.
Ben: Right, that cat was so strangely
trusting for just, like, an outside cat.
That cat was excited, that cat
was getting a snuggle, and then,
and then betrayed.
Oh, I did not like.
Clara starts to figure out that
the sleepwalking and weirdness is
tied to the full moon cycle, and
that's when it kind of becomes
clear that this is a werewolf movie.
Sara: You got a werewolf problem.
Ben: And the next full moon,
they're like, let's have sexy times.
I'm not sure how long, because honestly,
Ana looks like she's nine months
pregnant for like four fucking months.
Sara: Yeah, it's hard to tell how long
this goes for and how their relationship,
how long their relationship goes for
kind of, I appreciate that the sex
scene that they have here is super hot.
And also that Ana totally tops
Clara, which I was, I was surprised.
Emily: Yeah, that
Ben: Well, I think that fits their
whole, because again, at what
point does the servant master
relationship become employment based
and just part of the relationship?
Sara: but it flips because Clara
first is like, hey, I'm initiating
and then it flips and you're just
like, oh, oh, Ana, I never knew.
knew
Ben: I buy Ana as a top, 100%.
Sara: yeah, yeah, you have to, I
mean, I, doesn't matter if I believe
it or not, I saw it on television.
Emily: she's a horse girl.
Sara: She's a
Ben: She is used to being the one riding.
Sara: my god.
Ben: Emily.
Emily: Yes.
Sara: Wow.
Emily: I was a horse girl once.
Jeremy: Yeah, and I, I, I think you were
saying like, just from, who does what, and
also just from what happens in the scene,
I feel like it, diverges quite a bit from
like standard horror movie sex scene,
even like standard queer horror movie sex
scene, where, you know, it's like, okay,
two shots implying oral sex, two shots
implying, you know, stuff happening under
the covers, you know, one set of boobs,
maybe two, and then people waking up.
Ben: No, this was good, proper fucking.
Sara: It
was
Emily: it was tender and it was
intense and it was, it was, uh,
Sara: kind of weird in the way
that you're like happy about.
I mean, I thought it was so good.
It's really well shot.
Ben: I haven't seen this much
care put into pregnant lesbian sex
since season 2 of The L Word, which
did it so often it made it weird.
Sara: I was gonna say since
Bone Woman, but then we actually
weren't here for that one.
Yeah.
So, great.
A
Ben: anything else we want to discuss in
this first half before we steer on into
the ending of this part of the story?
Sara: She does a cute cowboy dance.
Um,
Ben: I do love all of Ana's dancing.
Sara: yes.
Emily: Yeah, she does some good
dancing they go to a mall where she
gets shoes and her cards decline
and then she tells a story cause
that mall is important, later.
Ben: The mall is important, the
money, I guess, is mostly, is just
solved by the diamond cowboy boots,
Emily: Also, is that mall fucking real?
Cause that, looked like the
fucking, Tyrell Corporation
ziggurat from fucking Blade Runner.
Like that thing was, science
fiction, and I know that like,
there's a lot of places in the
world that have cool shit like that.
Ben: Or is
Emily: and I,
Ben: footage of the, like, that
giant Bass Pro Shop pyramid, and
they just did some CGI on it?
Why does Bass Pro Shop have a pyramid?
Emily: I have no idea
what you're talking about
Ben: Google Pro Shop pyramid,
then you will understand
my, Befuddlement every day.
Sara: I've lived in the Midwest for
a while and can attest that yes,
Emily: hold
Ben: a giant pyramid and it's just
the world's biggest Bass Pro Shop.
Sara: Mm hmm.
Emily: and why isn't QAnon like
trying to find the, what the fuck?
Sara: There's no way they're not.
Emily: Fuck,
Ben: Right?
Sara: Mm
Emily: there's a swamp in there.
They fully have a swamp in there.
They have like a full ass swamp
in the Bass Pro Shop Pyramid.
Oh my god, I was asleep and now I
Ben: Honestly, up, like, right?
And they have the term they call the U.
N.
building, a wonder of the world?
Get fucked, U.
N.
building, you fucking
boring ass rectangle.
Emily: Who the
Sara: Are y'all
Emily: this Bass Pro Shop together?
Ben: Right?
Jeremy: I'm the same time.
I just looked up malls in Sao Paulo
and, uh, got an some images of the
interior of the Galleria to Rock
Rock Gallery, which is just shaped
like a giant multi-level vagina.
Um.
Emily: Why didn't they film it there?
That would have been so appropriate.
For
Sara: Yeah.
Yeah.
Emily: Please,
Ben: suffix.
Emily: yeah.
Let's, I mean, this movie is
already about the vagina, like,
why don't we just get in there?
Ben: Well, unfortunately, this movie is
also about, uh, impromptu C sections.
Because, uh, the
Sara: Mm hmm.
Emily: That was like a
Ben: moon, uh,
the crampings are getting
Way, way worse.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: And before they can do anything
to help that baby just sure, werewolf
shoryukens its way right through Ava.
Emily: Oh god.
Sara: Didn't see that
Ben: We did see it on screen, so you can't
say the baby didn't do a full shoryuken.
Emily: I mean, it clawed its way out.
We did see the
Jeremy: We do, we do see the
stomach burst, which is not
something I was excited about.
Emily: Yeah, that seems like not a
great way for, I mean, I don't know
anything about werewolf evolution or
like the whole werewolf situation.
I've never seen a movie where it's
been not, like, wild ass bonkers.
Like, I don't know, every werewolf movie
I've seen, it's just fucking crazy, like.
Ben: mean it's hard to do a werewolf
story without some body horror.
Emily: Yeah,
Sara: well, the baby Joel has the
umbilical cord wrapped around his neck, so
there's a
Ben: detail.
I didn't know
Emily: Yeah, he did.
I thought, I actually thought
that was the intestines.
I thought that was her intestines
that he had to break through
that he got around his throat.
Sara: possible, yeah.
Ben: How they pronounce Joel because
every time they said his name It
made me think of Superman's dad.
Sara: I like it because most
people pronounce that name
Joel, which sounds less cool.
Ben: Well, I knew I actually know a
guy who pronounces it Joel And now I'm
wondering like oh shit is this guy is like
From like a Brazilian family, and that's
why it's pronounced that way, I wonder.
Sara: Could be.
Ben: We only see the aftermath of what
it did to, of what he did to Ana, but God
damn, that's some fucking body horror.
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: Chestburster got nothing
on Joel.
Jeremy: it hasn't been a
pregnancies, fucked up body
horror movie up to this point.
Like she is pregnant, but
like, that hasn't been the
vibe of it up to that point.
Sara: And she
wants the baby.
That's important, too.
Emily: she does want the baby.
That's the whole reason that
she's in this situation.
Ben: Yeah, cause so much of when
pregnancy is hard, that is the
aspects, that's an unwanted pregnancy.
She's ready.
She's all about having this baby.
Jeremy: did miss discussing the
animated sequence that appears in
Ben: Oh, I love the animated sequence.
Oh, that art, I thought
that art was wonderful.
I would have loved to have seen more of
that, those kind of stylistic elements.
normally, I feel like something
like that, I kind of roll my eyes
at, but in this case, I thought
the art was just so well done.
I'm like, fuck yeah.
Emily: I thought it worked,
especially with her weird,
like, crystal display fireplace.
I mean, I think, you know, the animated
element could have come in more times,
but I just, I really did like it.
I thought it was, uh, well done.
Jeremy: I appreciate their refusal to
cast an attractive man in this movie.
They're just like, we could, we have
established that there is a large
sexy werewolf man, but he's only going
to appear as an animated character.
We're not going to cast anybody
Ben: just makes him sexier.
oh.
Mauricio's dad is a, like, a real lookin
dude in the way that you will never,
ever fuckin see in American movies.
Sara: True.
Yeah.
Ben: Mauricio I have seen hundreds of
Mauricio's dads just hanging out at delis.
Emily: Yeah.
And they've got their own Riz.
Ben: Oh, 100%.
Got that deli riz.
Emily: The Deli Dad Riz.
Ben: Man, you know he's making Mauricio
those big ass fuckin sandwiches.
That sandwich looked amazing.
He brought a full on fucking
sub to like, lunch that day.
Emily: also he is definitely,
like, has influenced that
kid in his impeccable style.
He was onto something.
Ben: Yeah.
anyway, this part ends with Clara
at first deciding to bring the baby
to a river and just abandon it,
but,
Jeremy: sing about that.
Ben: oh, we do get the
singing homeless lady.
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: that was some real, I don't
know, Zack Snyder Norwegian people
singing about Aquaman moment.
Emily: I felt it was more of
an American tale, a Brazilian
Ben: It added to the surreal
fairytale element of it, which
I know this movie was going
Emily: Yes.
Sara: Like, pretty much, they Greek
chorus it there for a hot second.
They're like, look, she's struggling.
Ben: That's it exactly.
That's exactly what it was.
It was the Greek chorus.
100%.
Oh, great call.
Clara turns and starts walking, and then
the baby starts crying and she stops.
And if
Sara: And you go, no,
Ben: this was its own movie,
that's where I would stop it.
I would stop at the baby
crying and she stops.
And you don't know for sure
if she'll go back to take
Sara: but there's another better ending
on the
way.
Ben: uh, we have a whole nother movie
coming, so she does take the baby
baby werewolf does some breastfeeding,
and after that the movie goes,
well I don't know what the fuck
else to do with, like, a werewolf
baby, we, we, we did breastfeeding,
you know, I'm out of ideas, so,
Jeremy: Clara heads off to buy a bad wig,
and then we're, what, eight years later?
Yeah.
Ben: I'm gonna hand the baton over to you
now on the recap, Emily, for part two.
Emily: absconded with.
Joel, the werewolf baby, who is,
upon birth, very were and wolf.
But it's okay because, um, years
later, he is now an adorable kid.
Sara: So cute.
Emily: And, uh, Joel
is, A little bit frail.
You know, he has mysterious quote
unquote circumstances about his
health, which is, of course, that
he turns into a werewolf every full
moon, and that's multiple nights.
You know, it's not just between,
the X time and X time when the
moon is at its fullest or whatever.
This is multiple nights of the month.
Ben: Yeah, that sucks.
Normally, with werewolves, it's
like one night a month, this
is like three or four nights a
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: it does seem to some extent
to follow a little bit of, like,
Monster Squad rules, which is when
the moon is covered, they're not quite
as werewolfy, but when the moon comes
out, then, you know, it's really wolfy.
Emily: Yeah, when you, when they
see that moon, then it's over.
it's Jover.
Ben: like a big a pizza pie,
Emily: and he's
Ben: a werewolf.
Emily: That's so a wolf.
So, yeah, Joel is, despite the fact
that he's frail and he's kind of, shy,
he is very popular with his buddies.
His neighbor, Amanda, really
wants to ask him to the dance.
His best friend MaurĆĀcio
does great acting him.
Ben: Oh MaurĆĀcio is a bro.
Emily: Yeah, MaurĆĀcio
is, his ultimate wingman.
Ben: good acting in a scene that could
not have big more, like, neon flashing
lights and just like, foreshadowing.
Emily: Yeah, foreshadowing and also,
like, you could see those guys
were, you know, they were going
to be roommates in the future,
Sara: All throughout college.
Emily: throughout college.
and life.
Sara: Mm hmm.
Emily: Anyway, Joel has the
routine pretty much understood
that he's gotta be in the room.
Clara has built a, uh, werewolf
escape room, or not escape
room, safe room, panic room.
There we go.
She's built
Jeremy: Sort of the
opposite of an escape room,
Emily: Yeah.
A,
Ben: dungeon?
Emily: a child.
I think I'm, I'm gonna
call it a panic room.
Ben: Yeah, panic room or safe room.
Sara: But panic rooms don't always
have the chain to the wall, so
there is a dungeon element as
Ben: what fucked me up about that
room, and it wasn't until the
very last scene of the movie.
Why couldn't it lock from the inside?
Sara: Did it lock from the inside?
Ben: mob would, did the mob not
even attempt to open it normally?
Were they just like, we
have to tear it down.
Did anyone even think to
try to actually open it?
Emily: There were a lot of
those guys in that tiny house.
Maybe they were just like trying to figure
it out They're probably all drunk as hell
Jeremy: They were at the, they
were at the fair just before.
So
Sara: right.
Ben: I mean, I hate to defend the
angry mob, but I'm like, well,
it is a real werewolf that hasn't
killed one kid and attacked another.
Emily: yeah.
Ben: I'm not, I'm taking
the side of the murder mob.
What the fuck am I doing?
Emily: don't worry about it.
Don't worry about it.
I mean, like,
Ben: just, like, when Mauricio's
dad is at the front when, like,
tearing up the ground, I'm like,
hard to say you don't got
a bit of a bone to pick.
Jeremy: listen, if the meddling auntie
hadn't messed up his prescribed diet,
then none of this would have happened.
I think it's the real implication.
Ben: this is where I kind of
think Clara is the real villain
because we saw his lunch.
That was just some steamed vegetable.
That looked awful.
I
wouldn't that.
Emily: Clara's trying to keep Joel
from eating a lot of meat because she
knows that he's, once he starts eating
the meat, he's gonna go like, on some
sort of
Ben: Stolt isn't meat.
Let the boy have some fucking pepper.
Emily: No, I, I
Ben: Use a goddamn sauce, Clara.
Emily: Maybe she was just trying to keep
it simple to keep his expectations low,
you know, there's this more than just
werewolf problems that we're dealing with.
There's, you know,
Ben: Give the kid some
fucking fried Christ's sake!
Emily: Yeah, I mean, maybe, maybe they
could, but anyway, his frailty, we find
out is attributed to Clara's, keeping
him from eating meat but Donna Maria is
looking after him and she says, Oh, you
need a fried steak, because, you know,
you're a grown boy and you need protein.
And Donnemarie's not wrong, but, you
know, then he gets the taste of meat.
he has a little bit harder time
controlling the, uh, the inner wolf.
Ben: when he starts eating the meat,
I thought like, Oh, he's gonna go on
a rage and fucking eat the landlady.
Instead, they kind of play it
like a kid on a sugar rush?
Emily: yeah, he just gets really moody
and agitated, and then he starts talking
back to Clara, and he ends up confronting
Clara about who his true parents are,
because he is uh, for the longest
time, he is told that he, that Clara
found him by the river, under a bridge.
Jeremy: Then she gives the child
Moses's origin story, like.
Just like I was by the river and I
just saw a baby wrapped in a blanket
and so I adopted them.
Ben: Oh, I won Werewolf
Moses so badly now.
Oh,
Jeremy: Let my people OOOOOOOOH
Ben: Ten plagues and not
a werewolf among them.
Emily: Yeah.
He has some note that indicates where
his mom used to live, so he thinks
his dad is out there somewhere,
Jeremy: he
gathers
Emily: his mom
Jeremy: playing where in the
world is Carmen San Diego.
Like he finds one image of a place and
he's like that must be where my dad is.
Ben: Would've been great
if it was just like, Mr.
Lobo, the big one, and he's like
the manager of a smoothie king.
Emily: Uh, he would probably be
walking with a limp because he did
Ben: That would've been like
the seventh movie, is like the,
my, me and my werewolf dad.
Emily: Yeah.
It's Wolf that's Teen Wolf.
Anyway so Joel and MaurĆĀcio go down to
the city, the big city, and they find
the Tyrell Corporation Mall which is
the mall, the only reason that they know
about the mall is because that's the
mall where she the mom got their special
shoes and she liked that mall, and so he
seems to think that's where his dad is.
So he and MaurĆĀcio, like, Go,
like, super spy, hide in the
pants at the local JCPenney, or,
Ben: we get, I mean,
even more pathetic than Segway
Mall Cop is Hoverboard Mall Cop.
Emily: Oh my fucking god, thank
you so much for reminding me!
Jeremy: With her fists on her, on her
Ben: Oh
yeah, yeah, power
position on a fuckin
Emily: like, there's no striding, she
just hovers around with her arms akimbo,
like she is a fucking statue of justice.
with the jaw of steel,
looks down at these kids.
Ben: and yet still failing to look
as cool as Paul Blart Mall Cop.
Emily: she,
Ben: You can't look
Emily: The
Ben: I'm sorry.
Emily: fact that she looks like she is a
poorly rendered NPC because she doesn't
Ben: Like, like, yeah, she was being
in the walk animation glitch now, and
she's just T posing around the mall.
Sara: There's like a Cinnabon
employee who lies for the boys,
which I think is really great.
Like, she's like, are they with you?
And the, the lady's just like, I
Emily: Yeah, sure.
Ben: lady just like, went like,
ACAB.
Emily: one.
Ben: MVP.
Emily: And the mall cop lady,
like, literally swivels away and
then, like, glides off frame.
Ben: so weird.
Sara: That actor is having a blast.
That actor is like, I'm
gonna play a cop that sucks.
I'm on it.
Ben: I wonder what that, what kind
of like, the range of emotions that
actor must have felt when they like,
got cast, got this part where it was
like, okay, 100 percent of your scenes,
you're standing on this hoverboard.
Sara: Yeah, you auditioned
for Ana, but you got this and
she's like, you know what?
Secretly, I was hoping that
would be the role that I got
because I know I can kill this.
I don't know if I, what I could
have done with Ana, but this,
this is the role I was born
Emily: I really,
I really hope Paul Blart was her, like,
muse.
Ben: yeah, I think the, I like to think
the actor was just like, cool no, don't
gotta wear heels and don't gotta walk.
Fantastic.
Fantastic.
Emily: Anyway, so they're at the mall they
hide from the mall cop and, um, they're
hiding in the pants and they can, it's
after hours and it is like, that movie,
the comet, night of the comet, where
they're like, girls just want to have
fun in the mall and they're like getting
the, you know, after hours mall stuff.
And
Ben: I was getting Big
the Last of Us vibes.
The DLC where Riley is, like, in the love
interest or in the mall and they're gay.
Anyway, I was getting lots of those vibes.
Sara: Oh, and I want to say
that I was really surprised
that the mall cop doesn't die.
I
don't know.
That just kind of surprised me.
I was like, oh, they're
Ben: uh, we were robbed of a scene
of a werewolf just chasing her,
like, still on the hoverboard.
Never get on the hover just this
werewolf chasing down a hoverboard
Sara: trade one mall cop for one cat.
Thank you.
Yes, bring the cat
Emily: Yeah,
yeah,
Sara: in the mall cops.
Emily: yeah, indeed.
Ben: but this is where we do
get our child death, though.
Emily: Okay, so that
Yeah, so Joel's in there.
And they're in the food court.
And they're getting their left like
late night Cinnabons on and they're
getting their late night soda pop.
And then the moon peeks from out from the
clouds and it's, uh, werewolf kid time.
And prior to this, all we have seen,
we've seen newborn werewolf baby
puppet, and then we've seen the morning
after hairy Joel, but, he transforms.
Ritsu has his, like, cosplay sword, and
holding it out to the beast, and he's
like, Oh my god, fuck this, I'm out.
And, now we finally see the
werewolf, the adorable baby werewolf
that Joel turns into, with it's,
all of it's ugly sonic, like,
it's like, it's,
Ben: is a good werewolf, Yeah,
it is a good werewolf design, like,
It's not like, photo realistic
convincing, but from just like, a
visual design standpoint, it is this
effective, like, wolf human face hybrid.
Sara: Yeah,
Emily: glad that they used, they
figured out a way to use the ugly
sonic design properly, because that is
Ben: Look, they were able to save a lot
on the budget by getting those assets.
So
Emily: Um,
Ben: real international collaboration.
Poor MaurĆĀciozio.
MaurĆĀcio knows he's in a movie,
but he thinks he's in this, like,
Preteen coming of age adventure film.
Sara: he's the star and his best friend is
the co star, but a little bit less famous.
It's somebody who's not quite as famous.
He's the
Ben: thinks,
Emily: yeah.
Ben: thinks he's Ferris Bueller and Joel
is his, like, and Joel is his Alan Ruck.
Sara: Yeah, And Alan Ruck's like when
Cameron became a werewolf that time.
Ben: oh damn, imagine if Ferris
Bueller Cameron becoming a
werewolf and murdering Matthew
Sara: Who do you love?
You love the car.
You love the car.
Oh
Ben: yes.
Sara: my God.
True.
Ben: I maintain that Ferris
Bueller is the best live action Mr.
Mxyzptlk we've ever gotten.
Emily: sure.
Um, okay.
MaurĆĀcio has been killed, uh, Joel shows
up the next day covered in blood, and
has some of MaurĆĀcio's shirt hanging
out of his mouth, and Clara's and this
is where Clara's like, We gotta go now.
Sara: Yeah, but this is post music number.
This is, they had the musical
number that was transitioning
from the werewolf murder.
to the day after.
So anybody who's looking for just
the where are the musical numbers,
musical werewolf numbers that happen,
there's maybe two or three of them.
This is one of them.
It's very important, very
Emily: Yes.
Yeah, this is like the
somewhere out there.
Is there like, waiting for him
to come home, and they're singing
a song about waiting for your
kids to come
Sara: my werewolf baby?
Jeremy: Where is the werewolf I carry?
Sara: Yeah.
Emily: very good.
Sara: It's great.
I love the songs.
I absolutely love the songs.
They come out of nowhere.
It's not a thematic thing.
Like, there's maybe, like I said,
two, I
Ben: Werewolf on
the Roof now.
Sara: it.
Jeremy: I was surprised.
I feel like there were more
musical numbers from this
werewolf movie than I expected.
Ben: yes.
Emily: Precisely three more
musical numbers than you expected.
Ben: Because again, like, some of the
moments, it's not like it's that kind
of musical, like, now I'm singing my
feelings, and music is coming out of
nowhere, and there's big choreography.
It is just like, A woman's
playing on her keyboard, and
Emily: Yeah.
Sara: No choreography.
Very little
Ben: no, no, Claire.
It is merely just there to
break up werewolf child murder.
Emily: yeah, cause they're like,
cause Clara is out all night.
She's worried.
She's freaking out.
And then she ends up like praying.
And the landlady is like,
Oh fuck, he's a werewolf.
We have to get him
baptized and exercised.
Yeah, which I'm like, oh, you
probably figured this the whole time.
Like, cause she keeps saying like,
we should have gotten him baptized.
And she's just like, this happened.
He became a were I knew
he was a werewolf before.
But now he's like, A teen wolf,
because he wasn't baptized.
Ben: Like, what would
an exorcism have done?
Like, would that have killed
him, or would it have possibly
gotten rid of werewolfism?
Emily: On
Ben: hard to know if she's
wrong for this reaction or not.
Emily: Considering how most exorcisms
go, I'm on board with Clara here,
because you never know what that
fucking priest is gonna come
Ben: I mean, look, let's be honest,
most exorcisms in real life are
just Pope approved child abuse.
Emily: yes, or just regular person abuse.
Sara: It's not gonna
help Joel, I don't think.
Emily: Absolutely not.
don't think God has any
stake in this, so to speak.
This is outside that dogma, but um,
Sara: of God.
Jesus!
Jesus as
Emily: Thank
Sara: a mall cop!
Jesus as a mall cop.
Okay, sorry, go ahead.
Emily: know if that is beautiful or
Ben: for your he died for your sin, Abon!
Emily: that's good.
That's really,
Ben: yeah!
Sara: movie.
Emily: Yeah,
Ben: I'm
I am
Emily: got a,
Ben: of myself for that one.
Emily: You guys are really
bringing the bangers.
Like, this is some, I'm not even done with
the recap, but I'm, I don't regret it.
Um, the
bangers,
Jeremy: movie can play in the same
cinema as Werewolf on the Roof, just
Emily: yeah, but anyway, so, Clara's,
Clara then, anesthetizes the landlady
before she has any chance to call
the priest because she's just
like, listen, we can't have this
bullshit, you know, because also
the landlady is probably going to be
telling everybody he's a werewolf.
But I think people know,
they just aren't sure.
Ben: was gonna kill her?
Emily: A little bit.
Sara: I
don't know what I would do if somebody
started trying to call a priest, right?
Like, they're just
Emily: I mean, Clara is a nurse,
so she has like, you know, she
knows what dose to give, you
know, and the landlady, yeah, yeah.
And I'm glad she didn't kill the landlady,
because in
the cat, that cat had, for Joel's
birthday, the cat wore a party hat, okay?
That was the happy cat life
that we at least got to counteract,
and we have, we have less happy
child lives than we have happy
cat lives per sad cat deaths.
We
have more sad child deaths versus,
so I will say that, like, you
Ben: yeah, I mean, it's hard for
me to root, is to like, be too
against this landlady when her main
crimes are feeding an anemic child
Emily: yeah,
Ben: werewolves probably
aren't a good thing.
Sara: Mm hmm.
Emily: she, but she didn't
say we have to kill him.
Sara: Mm.
Emily: She said we have to exercise him.
She was like ready.
She was in this other, other, other movie
where she's like, Oh, I got the hookup.
I got the werewolf proof juice.
We're going to turn him
into a real boy again.
Just calm down.
And then Clara is coming at it
like, no, this isn't, you're not
going to change who my son is.
We just got to get out of
here because, you know,
Ben: would, you know what would
have been the funniest outcome?
Is that they'd be like, look, we
did the exorcism, we got the spirit
out, unfortunately we exorcised the
human half a now, it's just all wolf.
Here's just your wolf.
Emily: I mean, and then he's
a puppy and then he's good.
it's like, uh, then it's wolf's reign.
Um, so anyway.
So Clara's like, we got to get out.
And Joel's like, fuck, no,
I'm, I've got a life here.
And then he locks Clara in the
safe room and he's like, fuck you.
I'm going to school.
And so he goes to school
and Mauricio is not there.
And Joel's like, shit, you can see Joel
is, is he, he's kind of like taking it
on the chin a little bit, but you can see
that he's really struggling with that.
And that, that actor, that kid all the
Oscars, like that kid, I don't, that
kid like was crying, like real crying.
I hope he's okay.
Sara: Scary, angry, just
pathetic at a certain point.
You're just like, God.
Werewolves!
Ben: possibly have gotten paid enough
to have all that hair glued to him.
Emily: yeah, that's, that as well.
Yeah, and the girl Amanda's like, well,
can you come to the dance with me?
I'm doing the finger thing
with my fingers together.
And then he's like, yes, I will
come to the dance with you.
And then he shows up at the dance later
and Clara's like freaking out and her
co workers are calling her and they're
like Clara's not answering her phone.
This is weird.
So, we're at the dance.
And it's night time.
And you know what happens at night?
The moon.
So, yeah, like, TLDR,
Jeremy: I do want to say, on the
one co worker, she does come through
with the like, Clara has been to
work, she's not answering her phone,
let me go check at the apartment.
Well, the door is open and there's
weird banging inside, let me go in.
All right, I've helped her out
of this mysterious sealed room
in her, her house, and Clara's
like, I gotta go save people, and
the co worker's like, what?
Oh no, why do you have a gun?
I'm
Ben: is,
Jeremy: this whole thing,
Ben: that is the energy that co
worker brings to everything, like,
like, she had this point where
she's just like, I didn't know
how to lock a store on my own.
Sara: When, when Clara snaps at her
and she's just like, are you okay?
Emily: yeah,
Sara: just like, oh, you're sweet, but
not,
Emily: and,
Sara: super competent.
Emily: yeah, Clara knows that she needs
to get that woman out of this movie.
Sara: Yeah, you're not safe here.
Emily: not safe.
I don't even think she's safe, like,
at work, with all of the drugs.
anyway, so, yeah, she gets Clara
gets busted out of her safe room
and immediately goes for her
gun, and, like, where's the kid?
The safe room is in the kid's room,
but, you know, co worker San isn't
really doing anything, and, you know,
probably best, like, we don't want
her to ask questions, because then she
would also get the syringe to the neck.
We don't know if she didn't, actually, So
Clara shows up at the dance and the folk
dance was going great until, you know,
Amanda and Joel's cute little moment was
interrupted by a fucking werewolf thing.
And there was, some blood and some,
um, Amanda's like ollieing out of
there and she interrupts the whole
dance by screaming covered in blood.
Very much like, it's sort of like
the opposite of the, you know,
Donald Glover with the pizza,
but she's the one screaming and
everybody else has got the pizza.
Anyway, so, then they realize that
because she's covered in blood and
Joel turned into a werewolf that
Joel, like, immediately, they're like,
Ah, he's a werewolf, we gotta go get
Ben: This mob puts it together so fucking
Sara: They're like, Oh, he
should have gotten baptized.
Emily: Yeah.
So they, they gather all of
their spinny light devices.
glow sticks, and,
Jeremy: fonts and
Emily: and, and, you know, and whatever,
and, like, raved down the street after
this werewolf, so much so that I was
confused for a minute whether they were
an angry mob, or they were just a really
on drugs mob, or maybe both, I don't know.
But Clara um, shoots her son in
the leg, and takes him back to
the safe room and chains him up.
she can
Ben: was real worried we were getting a
much darker ending when that gun went off.
Emily: Yeah, so I thought
she fully, like, shot him and
Ben: Oh, the the relief I felt when It was
when I saw that was like a leg shot Yeah,
Sara: of them died.
You're like, all right.
Emily: so Clara, you know, Joel
turns into werewolf, Clara shows up,
shoots Joel in leg, Joel blood gets
on Amanda's cute little dress, Amanda
freaks out Clara and Joel ollie.
they're in the safe room, and so
finally the mob is at the door,
and, uh, more singing is happening
because, you know, shit's gone pear
shaped, and Clara's like, okay,
you're hungry, you know what, eat me.
Eat my whole body, you
know, bones and all,
Ben: that's what Ana said
earlier in the movie,
Emily: Yeah.
Sara: da.
Oh
Emily: eating.
Ben: guess Damn
Emily: ate a whole pussy.
Um,
Ben: I'm
Emily: It was low hanging fruit.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ben: gonna need to sit.
Well, I'm gonna you know, that one winded.
I'm winning this on that one.
Yeah
Kudos Emily kudos.
You did good on that one Emily Well,
Jeremy: butch and Sundance
the end of this movie,
they're like, they're, they're
standing in front of the door,
the door is rattling, it's about
to open and fade to black, like,
Sara: They both turned to the door and are
Jeremy: they turned like they're
gonna fuck some people up.
Clara has like, I guess, A gun
with like maybe four bullets
Sara: it literally, at
this point, since I've seen this movie,
like, eight times or something, once
there's like a lead up part where it's
not actually sad yet, like, that you're
supposed to be feeling tense, that I
have so many feelings about the end
of this movie that I just start crying
spontaneously, like, 15 minutes away from
the end, because I know that there's gonna
be this ending that absolutely wrecks me.
Emily: the thing that I want to mention
before, like the, I put the fork in
it here is the moment Clara decides
to let Joel eat her as a werewolf, you
know, she lets him go and she sings her
song and then she holds out her hand
Sara: They hold hands.
Emily: he, instead of eating her, he
holds her hand and it's really sweet.
And
Ben: don't forget, she also sings the
song from Ana's Ancestral Music Box.
Emily: the horse box.
Ben: I think that played a big part.
Sara: I'm
Emily: so, the first question that I
have, should she have been a werehorse?
Ben: I'm not sure because, you
know, okay, because now we have
to question, what's better, the
werewolf designs or the werehorse
designs from Sorry to Bother You?
Emily: Okay, since it's a
kid, I'm gonna say wolf.
I'm gonna say ugly sonic wolf kid.
Ben: the wolf.
Emily: Yeah,
Sara: love this werewolf.
There's so many different werewolves
and some are good and some are
bad designs, but this one I
Ben: yeah,
I made the ugly so I've been making
the ugly Sonic jokes, but I do
legitimately think it's a good design
Sara: Yeah.
Emily: No, like it, this
is, how that design works.
Like this is, this is
where that design works.
And I think that, you know, 'cause in a
sonic movie, you're looking for sonic,
you're not looking for werewolf child
and, and in a Werewolf child movie, a
werewolf child, you know, it's cute.
It's a little bit uncanny,
Ben: well now I want the
Jeremy: Now, Now, if Sonic spun his way
out of her stomach and like, you know,
and
Sara: a bunch of, a bunch of rings come
Jeremy: in there and he was looking
at his watch and tapping his foot like
Sara: Oh no.
Oh,
Ben: There's a version where
like this cute little kid gets
bitten by a hedgehog and then like
turns into a little hedgehog boy.
Emily: oh my god, sorry.
Fucking
Sara: man.
Emily: burst out of her womb.
That's
looking for chili dogs.
Sara: Mm-Hmm.
Jeremy: I will say, I was hoping
for, in the first half of this movie,
I was, I was like waiting for a
werewolf Ana, and we don't get it.
She just
Ben: the
closest we get the
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: yellow eyes.
Emily: Yeah.
She gets the yellow eyes and then she
has sleepwalking, you know, eat meat,
eating pussy, eating fugue moments.
Sara: Mm-Hmm.
That's so funny that nobody
reacted to that line.
Right.
It is just like Uhhuh.
Yeah.
That is
Emily: Yeah.
Sara: in this movie,
.
Emily: Yeah.
I saw Ben's mouth kind of twitch,
Sara: Okay.
All
right.
All
right.
All right.
Emily: I saw the containment
Um, the effort was the
Jeremy: mean, that all, that does happen,
I think, within the same night too, right?
She does eat pussy and then eat a pussy.
Um,
Emily: she
got
the taste.
Sara: Is a date night gone wrong, I guess?
Emily: Yeah, I mean,
it absolutely is, and I'm just thankful
that it was in that order for Clara,
Sara: It's a poor clearing.
Yeah, that's nice.
Emily: because Clara would
probably be getting like, FIV
Sara: Ah,
Emily: cat.
Ben: Oh, yeah, don't eat that.
Don't eat street cat.
Go to a shelter and
get, like, a cat with a
Sara: oh no.
Emily: a cat!
They're gamey.
Eat a pigeon.
Ben: terrible meat.
Sara: Oh, oh no.
Emily: Yeah.
Sara: I'm like, just making sure
my cats are all out of the room
and can't hear this conversation,
but I think we're good.
I think
Emily: I'm, I'm, saying
don't eat cats, Oswald.
Yeah, or even like, rabbit.
I don't like rabbit.
Sara: No, it's a weird thing.
It's a weird thing.
It
is.
Emily: they're herbivores,
but like, yeah, I can't, uh,
you know.
Ben: kangaroo.
Emily: I've eaten ostrich and crocodile.
Ben: was on the menu!
What am I gonna do?
Not order kangaroo when it's on the menu?
Emily: I'm with you.
Sara: Anything that can
just punch me in the face.
I don't think I'm going to order.
Emily: mean, I, like, if, I know
kangaroo are, like, deer in Australia,
so, like, although having deer that
can punch you in the face, like,
Sara: They kind of
Jeremy: There's nothing more
Australian than that, honestly.
Emily: god, like, just the idea of
kangaroos freak me out because those
things get, like, human size, and
they're basically a deer with pecks,
like, they're real life abnormals, like,
Jeremy: I love that I've seen enough
Australian horror movies now to know
that, like, they really do serve that
dear function in Australian horror movies.
They're constantly getting hit and, like,
suffering in the middle of the road.
Sara: Mm hmm.
Ben: that,
there was a
period of, there was a good portion of
history, where if you were a European
dude, you could just sail off, and there
was a chance you would just find a giant
land of magical nonsense creatures.
Like,
Sara: And many of them then got
Ben: colonialism's Yeah, like,
colonialism's a motherfucker, but that
must have been a hell of a time to live
in, when it's just like, we found a whole
new half of the world, and they have
tomatoes!
Emily: yeah.
Like, what is this?
Ben: Italy, you're never
gonna be the same again!
Emily: You heard the story
about the Manticore, right?
How the Manticore was somebody's bad
version of Telephone, and someone tried
to describe a tiger to another guy?
Um, yeah, they were like, it's like a face
like a man, and it's body of a lion, and
Sara: It's a manticore.
Mm
Emily: uh, so, this movie it is,
okay oh, there was another thing I
wanted to mention about this movie,
is that on Ana's 29th birthday,
she says God, I have made a note.
I have to pull up the
note.
Jeremy: return is over.
Emily: My Saturn return is over.
Okay.
Do we know what that means?
Ben: I think that's some astrology stuff
Sara: it
is.
But it usually doesn't happen when
you're
Jeremy: into astrology.
Ben: Oh, 100%.
Oh my god, Ana is such
a fucking astrology guy.
100%.
Emily: bitch that has everybody's star
charts memorized, you know, she is
that member of the crew, but so Saturn,
there's, there is an astrological idea.
I'm not going to call it a theory.
I'm not going to call it a belief.
It's just a, it's an
interesting coincidence.
Because I'm agnostic like that, that
Saturn returns to the same place
as it was when we were born, makes
this 27 year transit around the sun.
And there's this idea that it has
some kind of, like, when your Saturn
is back, when your Saturn returns,
you undergo a crazy life challenge.
And
Sara: Yeah, all of your old problems
come back to you, and you, have to
kind of become a different person
with Saturn Returns, but as you
say, it's a 27 year cycle, right?
As opposed to a
Emily: Yeah, but
that's the thing is that,
Ben: binary at 28,
Emily: yeah, and so like, that's what,
but that's the idea is that, you know,
but there's also Saturn approaching and
leaving that, so it's same thing with the
moon, you know, it's not one year, one
moment, it is, you know, so her Saturn has
completely left her house or whatever her
Ben: and thus she encounters no
more problems during the movie.
Emily: yeah, so that was
Ben: I
mean,
there is a, there is a real
tragedy, I find, to Ana.
Sara: Yeah, I think
Ben: somebody who had so much life to
live, who had so much to figure out,
who had so much that they felt had gone
wrong that they wanted to set right.
And just, And just the tragedy
and sundness of death just
snuffs all that potential away.
Sara: When Clara describes her later to
Joel, the first thing she says is she was
kind hearted, which is a really beautiful
thing, and you're like, I get it that
you were saying that just because you
thought she was hot, but like, also, she
was really hot, and also, she was kind
Emily: she was kindhearted,
she did give Clara the chance.
She wasn't unreasonable,
you
Sara: hmm.
The boots!
The boots continued to pay for
their life for a really long time.
Clara had a job, but like, having
those boots obviously helped a lot.
Ben: Yeah.
Emily: And, uh, she did her best.
She wasn't like, so much of a disaster
that she was difficult for Clara.
She was just, once Clara got her,
got the idea of what her needs
were, you know, that was that.
Clara was dedicated to her and,
and Ana, when Ana called her
Donna Clara that was so sweet.
Yeah, because it's like you know, because
Clara the whole time was calling her
Donna Ana, which is like, you know, Mrs.
Ana, as far as I know.
I think there's more to it than that, but
you know, it was, it's a, an honorific.
And then, you know, which
sometimes it indicates age.
So there's a little bit of sarcasm there,
but then when she calls her Donna Clara,
you know, she's like, you're not my.
You're not my employee anymore, we're buds
and then, roommates and then, in love.
Um,
Sara: getting paid,
so
Emily: well, I mean, we're sharing
now and you're, you're, you know,
you get my pin number and my card.
Jeremy: I feel like there's
a real indication that Clara
never gets paid in this movie.
Sara: Yeah.
Jeremy: Does not get a cent.
Ben: And uh,
Emily: get, she's basically,
Ben: how to pay people.
Emily: but I think that she also
is basically like use my card to
pay for everything that you want.
The way that,
Jeremy: quotation marks
around my, my card.
Emily: yeah, use the card that
I have access to but anyway, the
Jeremy: There's a real feel of like, if
Ana does survive this birth, like, she
is, in the throes of a meteoric descent
at this point too, like, she's almost
out of money, she doesn't have a job,
she's living off of credit cards and,
Sara: Blood.
She loves blood.
Emily: she needs to drink the
blood of her, literally drinking
the blood of her partner.
Sara: Yeah.
Jeremy: into some Angelina
Jolie shit, you know?
Sara: Mm hmm.
Emily: know about, I didn't know
about that, about Angelina Jolie.
Jeremy: that, that, that Angelina
Jolie Billy Bob Thornton relationship
that carried vials of each other's
blood around their necks and stuff.
Emily: That's weird.
Sara: It was a weird vibe, I'll tell ya.
Emily: Dern got out of that.
Laura Dern doesn't deserve that.
Ben: Meanwhile, in gay news, If
Emily: yeah.
Sara: Old gay news.
Ben: you haven't seen the
other two, watch the other two.
It's real gay and really fucking funny.
Emily: I assume that
that's got Laura Dern.
Laura
Ben: Uh, there's a running gag,
it's like in gay news, and it's
just Laura Dern, like the data,
like anything Laura Dern does.
Emily: Oh, yeah.
Sara: Mm hmm,
Ben: It's like the E!
Entertainment, it's like the
Gay News Minute, and it's just
like, Laura Dern fell down!
Emily: Alright.
So there's In other gay news,
this movie, how do we feel about
its LGBTQIA representation?
Sara: Good.
Ben: Yeah, I mean, we've got a
lesbian single mother, a fucked up,
hot as hell lesbian couple, I mean,
I am, I am feeling this queer rep.
Sara: Everything's kind of
fucked up, but then you're also
like, they do like each other.
It's just weird.
But what are they gonna do?
They're both super weird.
I don't know.
Jeremy: the race and class politics
of this gay relationship are very,
very problematic and very worrisome.
But, ultimately, like, the
relationship itself seems pretty good?
I don't know.
Like, it's, it's very, like, there's
several scenes in there where I'm,
I'm like, It's weird that they're
not saying something about this.
So
Ben: like, are they gonna
mention that they fuck?
you gonna talk about the fucking,
or are you just gonna like,
kiss each other on the lips now?
Jeremy: although I did have to like,
there was, I, I was relieved when we
got to like, the point that they were
actually having sex in non sleepwalk
mode where I was like, Oh, good.
Okay.
It is consensual relationship.
Not to like when she sleepwalks,
she has a real taste for her help.
Like it's not, Yeah, cause that first
thing I was like, with her sniffing
her and then biting her, I was like,
it's like, this scene is pretty hot,
but also problematic on so many levels.
Emily: Some real interview
with the vampire shit.
Jeremy: yeah, and yeah, it's It was
questionable, but they go far enough
to clear it up that I was like, okay,
I can keep watching this without going,
Emily: yeah there's definitely some
things that's, there's a lot going on.
There, it is complicated enough that you
can really trust the movie to be like,
yeah, we know that this is complicated.
But we're just, we need to
talk about the werewolf part.
Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, I feel like very
similarly about the race and class
stuff in this that I did when we were
talking about Medusa, which is like,
they don't really acknowledge that people
in this movie are different skin tones.
They don't really acknowledge that they
are different classes and that they are.
you know, held differently in
society within, you know, the people
within this same relationship which
is weird, but it is Brazilian.
So, like, it, you know, it is a thing
that for certain parts of Latin America
is cultural and, and makes sense and
not necessarily good, but like, it's
like within, within the context of the
movie, it's like, okay, well, you know,
Sara: And a lot of their decisions
are based in kind of what class they
are, I think, because a lot of the
behaviors of both of them, I think, it
kind of comes It doesn't seem like it's
acknowledged between the couple, but
it's something that does seem to come
across in at least some way, I think,
whenever I'm watching it, because of
who the characters are and how they
interact with each other, I guess.
But yeah, I
Jeremy: sense of self
preservation whatsoever.
Like
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: like,
Emily: I think that, that, you know,
it's Clara who helps her kind of, you
know, Clara applies some of her wisdom.
Sara: And she's like, kind
of, um, also lost, you know?
They're both lost.
That's how I feel about it.
And it's, yeah, it's
totally weird, for sure.
I just still also kind of like it,
because I'm like, wow, god, this is
so weird and complicated and strange.
And then they both kind of, start to,
they're, they start to be a little blendy.
Like they start doing like, um,
similar behavior for a hot second.
Like it's like they're escalating
each other in a weird way, but also
de escalating at the same time.
The stuff with the blood, you're
like, oh, that's an escalation.
And then it's like, no, it's
actually looking really healthy.
And it seems like a
good thing she did that.
Normally that would be weird and maybe
not great to do to somebody is just to
start secretly feeding them your blood.
Right?
Like
Jeremy: The fact that she does it
and then immediately afterwards
she's like, Okay, we need to talk.
It's like, surprisingly
healthy for a relationship in a
Sara: kinda is.
I don't know.
Yeah.
I, I love these two.
I have questions, that'll be
answered in the 17th movie,
Emily: If we can only get that movie,
like,
Jeremy: good, too manners.
Manners
Ben: Good Manners Tokyo
Werewolf, Werewolf Drift?
Jeremy: You gotta go a different way,
it's gotta be like, Like, Vampire Drift?
Emily: Vampire Drift?
Yeah, When
Jeremy: Or you know, what's, What's
the Japanese equivalent of where, I
mean, it's just the wolf, the wolf
children.
Emily: Yeah,
Kitsune Drift
Ben: Drift honestly sounds
like the name of an anime.
Emily: It's probably well, there's
drifting classroom, I think.
I'm sure that I'm sure
there's one out there.
Ben: there's Yokai Watch,
the video game series.
Emily: I do know that there is
a Japanese doujinshi about Paul
Walker and, Dominic Torello.
Sara: Good.
Jeremy: Ooh, hold on, I gotta
take a walk after that one.
Paul Walker and Dominic Torello.
Ben: I need to I don't
Emily: up.
It's been too long.
I
Ben: I need Google to be
functional again so I can find
this Fast and Furious doujinshi.
Emily: to the, to the episode that we
did from the Patreon, because I found it.
while we were doing the Patreon.
I'll, I think I, definitely bookmarked
it, but we'll, we'll get to that later.
Alicia, can you, can you please cut
out the part where we talk about
this and also the Dominic Torello
bit because I feel very stupid
for fucking up the Fast and Furious Man.
Jeremy: I, it was just, you could
have gone with Paul Walker and Vin
Diesel, um, but the like, The actor's
name slash wrong name for the other
character in the movie, was just
a particularly strong combination.
Emily: you are, we are, I am
allowing a, a digressively horrified
if we're going to do that, bit.
I can't remember his name in the
chara like, I can't remember the
character's name in the movie.
What's the character's name?
The Paul Walker place?
Ben: Brian O'Connor?
Emily: Yeah, I can't remember that.
I already forgot it.
I'm
Jeremy: it's white man oh white man
Emily: yeah, like, I all I remember is
it's Paul Walker and, uh, he likes to
have the crusts cut off of the sandwich.
That's the only thing
I remember about him.
And he's a bad cop.
Sara: Everybody likes fast cars.
They
like to go real fast in the cars.
Emily: yeah, I know, I know
that part.
Jeremy: happy.
They're angry, furious in
Emily: They're so furious.
Jeremy: Too furious one might say.
Emily: yeah, sometimes.
Jeremy: Guys do we think
this movie is feminist?
Emily: Yeah.
Next question.
Sara: Yeah,
Ben: Oh yeah, 100%.
Emily: No, this movie is absolutely,
like, when you talked about the fact that
there were no hot guys in this movie,
Jeremy: They actively choose not to,
not to have a hot guy in this movie.
They're like let's not
make a flashback scene.
Let's animate it.
It's like, there was a
very hot werewolf man.
This is, this is a, this is an
artist's rendering of what the hot
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: looked like.
Emily: it was very, like,
Jeremy: He had very hairy
Emily: Witness, yeah, he was a big shadow
Ben: Did he have a, did he have a bush?
Oh my god, like you wouldn't believe.
Emily: He had like a fucking
senshi dungeon meshi bush.
Ben: Right?
Oh my, right?
Okay, I'm glad you noticed that too.
Emily: Yes,
Sara: I love Clara.
I think that she's so interesting
whenever it comes to care and kind of
the, I guess, the role that she takes on
of care and then it turns into control
and the way that she has to wrestle with
those things I felt like is very real.
Whenever you're trying to take care of
something I think sometimes it is hard
to tell if you're being controlling or if
you're like pushing your own will on them
in some way and I love that the solution
to that is just let it go, you know, like.
Your werewolf kid's a werewolf.
There's not much you can do right now.
You can't keep protecting him,
Emily: and I'm not, she's not gonna
make anybody convert her werewolf child.
Sara: Yeah, she's like, get
that priest out of here.
In fact, have some drugs because you're
not calling a priest, which I love.
I mean, I love it.
I'm glad that she, I mean, it's
not, I'm not necessarily super glad
that she dropped somebody, but I
love that she was like, a priest?
No.
No thanks.
Because she knows,
Emily: the non murder solution.
Sara: just such a thing of,
yeah, I mean, who knows what
a priest would do to this kid?
And that's how it feels
sometimes, I think.
I don't know.
I loved her.
I think that she's such a good character.
It's like one of my
favorite characters ever.
I just love her so much.
Emily: Yeah, and
Jeremy: Yeah, she's such a subtle
actress too, like so much of, so much of
especially the first half of the movie
is very like, she's very stoic, she's
very like, trying to take the temperature
of any given room in there, you know,
figure out, like, she has the air of
somebody who like, knows from her race
in her class, like she could not just be
fired, but like, if her employer so chose,
like she, she could be arrested today.
Like, you know, that's
sort of where she's at, but as she
sort of gets in a position where she
has to take control, she shifts gears.
Sara: Yeah, and you have that kind
of allusion to her life because
her landlady is just like you never
stick around anywhere for long.
You can never hold a job.
You know, you're kind
of just.
Ben: on.
Sara: Never elaborated on, but you, and
as we said, whenever she goes in for
the interview, she's incredibly sketchy
and this way, that's just like, oh,
I'm going to lie to you about like all
of this, but she also needs this job.
And like, that's just the
position that people are put in.
I like my job interviews, right?
And everybody does and maybe, maybe
not quite as maybe not giving them
my landlady's phone number, but,
you know, she's put on the spot.
So.
But I think that her
life is interesting too.
The way that they kind of
reference how interesting, like,
how it might have been before.
But then whenever she finds something that
she dedicates herself to, she's in it.
So, like, she will not leave Ana.
She will not leave Joel.
Emily: yeah,
Sara: There's a, there's a double sided
sword with that, or a double edged sword
with that, where she cares too much,
and that care can turn into a harm in a
way too, and I think that she's having
to grapple with that through the entire
movie, so I definitely think it's, that's
at least a feminist thought, right?
So I loved it I love her so much.
Emily: yeah she's absolutely complex
and she has this arc, uh, and I don't
think, like, I think it's pretty
clear that she's not trying to she's
controlling Joel, out of desperation.
She has absolutely no idea what
else to do in this situation,
and she has very little data.
Like, there's no
moment in
Sara: last forever, this won't keep going,
Emily: yeah,
Sara: it's not forever.
Emily: yeah, and we don't know
what, like, she has no idea.
Um, and so she's making it up as
she goes along, and sometimes, you
know, by creating a completely, like
a, you know, fabricated narrative.
But the, it's not malicious.
Sara: Right.
Emily: Because it is definitely like,
it, and the horror of losing Ana is so
incredible and like, you think about that,
there's a lot of things, you know, this
is one of those moments that I feel like
a lot of people would watch this movie and
they'd be like, well, why did she do that?
Why did she do this?
And it's just so unknowable of a situation
that it's a lot more complicated than,
you know, the wolf children debacle
of Okay, my kid, my kid is sick.
Do I take it to the vet or the hospital?
You know, it's very,
Ben: relevant question
Emily: it is a relevant question
for that situation, but in this
situation, this is like, what the fuck?
Like, we are in uncharted
territory, you know, there's no
vet, dichotomy of vet and hospital.
This is like, unknown other, right?
So, I think that that's a really important
element of, you know, and a kind of
realistic treatment of that situation
that she's just like, and, you know, the
fact that she's also a drifter, you know,
or maybe not a drifter, but, you know,
someone who has trouble settling down and,
you know, the one thing that she has now
devoted herself to is, you know, Joel,
and she has made a life settle down him.
Ben: Yeah, they're like, but they're,
I love how her first introduction of
them were like, they're doing like
dance exercise, just like Ana did.
Emily: yeah, they're doing the, like,
the little Jazzercise thing, and the
kid is like, you have to do it the way
that the man on the screen is doing it.
And it's so, it's such a real interaction
between, like, a parent and child.
going back to the LGBTQIA, you know,
I think that there is something about.
Joel and his, what, I mean, I don't
think it's supposed to be absolutely one
to one symbolic, but the fact that he
is different and has different needs,
you know, that can be a lifestyle
thing and also a medical thing.
But I feel like a few, he has some
cues that to me interpret as, you
know, when's that egg gonna hatch,
or, you know, when's that, that
he's, uh, on his way becoming LGBTQIA
Ben: Well, there is, it is
interesting.
I mean, there's,
I said, I mean, to me, was it was
like, people seem like, almost
angry at Clara for perceiving
him to be like, chronically ill.
Emily: Yeah,
that, and that's really complicated, too,
because he's they, she doesn't give any
information and I don't know about Brazil
and how that particular the cross section
of the this particular community deals
with things like that, but I know that
there's, and a lot of places, including,
you know, American communities, are
things that we just don't talk about.
And I've seen from overseas.
I see a lot of movies and fiction where
the, uh, Subtext is very important because
that's the thing that we don't talk about.
So, um, and I think that there's
a point where everybody is
trying to deny that he's sick.
And I feel like that's just,
you know, there's a denial.
A dismissal rather than, you know,
really respecting his needs, right?
Sara: Yeah.
And then he's mad at his mom about it
because she has his care really dialed
in and he then doesn't understand
why that care is actually needed.
But, and then she struggles with
it too, because she's like doing
what she thinks is best, but she's
still chaining a child to a wall.
So how
Ben: I mean, again, just put
up a pillow against the wall.
Just
Sara: Yeah.
Ben: concrete.
Emily: well, I
mean, I think, I think there
were pillows at some point, but
Sara: the mattress that he rips to shreds.
There's,
uh,
Emily: mattress.
Ben: I'm not saying you're not
gonna need, you're not gonna
have a significant pillow budget,
Sara: yeah, lots of mattress cycling.
It's like, oh, Casper is here again.
What's that about?
It's like a Casper mattress delivered.
And Casper, if you are interested in
promoting this podcast, get in touch.
Airbnb
Ben: goddamn pillows?
Emily: Oh, she must have
an Airbnb, that's it.
She's just loading up
those beds with pillows.
Sara: dungeon, Airbnb dungeon,
Emily: Air D& D.
Um,
Jeremy: There's a market for that.
Emily: there is definitely
a market for that.
Wait, yeah, okay, TM, copyright,
Air D& D, it's mine now.
Me and I'm taking it back from Wizards.
D& D, it's those are just letters, man.
And they don't mean Dungeons and Dragons.
mean air dungeons and something else.
Dungeons and
Jeremy: Dining rooms.
Emily: dining areas.
Yes.
Sara: Well,
that's,
that's,
I feel like there's a
cease and desist coming.
I was trying to get you all work
through the Casper mattress people,
and now there's going to be a cease
and desist coming to this podcast.
Emily: Casper mattress, we promise.
Caps whatever, Casper.
We promise that we won't
piss off with Hasbro.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Emily: On purpose.
Jeremy: that you're the ghost
of Richie Rich mattress.
Emily: Yeah.
Um, that's fine.
You know, the, but, you know, we
will promote your mattresses for
young werewolf parents out there
that are struggling because obviously
we've had multiple movies about
young werewolf parents struggling.
So I think that we all, I think someone
needs to make a podcast about that.
Sara: It feels like a metaphor
of some kind I don't know.
Emily: of metaphor about like, when
you're a parent, you just don't,
you know, your kids are different.
Sara: Hmm.
Hmm.
Emily: And I think that that.
Jeremy: your monster.
Emily: Yes, uh, I mean, some
kids, and it's not their fault,
but, you know, it's just,
they come in all shapes.
But that's, that leads us to,
how do we, Yes, we do.
I mean, I do.
Shit, I just took
everybody's recommendation.
Sara: Yeah, mine goes as red.
I think I started this as,
I love this movie so much!
And that's honestly how I start
almost every one of the podcasts that
I've been on with you all so far.
Just being like, ah!
Ben: unique, great, like, interesting
movies that not have, like, that do
not have the audiences they deserve,
so.
You know, a movie like this is not going
to get much spotlight, so I am always
happy to shine some light on some weird
and wonderful films from around the world.
Jeremy: Yeah, this one is one that like,
I have a little bit of a hard time with
because I, I like both movies that it is.
I do not enjoy the bridge of like, Ana's
horrible pregnancy death to, you know,
and, and sort of killing, it feels like
killing that story like midway through
to, you know, switch over to this,
to the raising a kid werewolf story.
Because I, as I was watching it,
I felt like, oh man, I was really
enjoying that movie and now I'm
not watching that movie anymore.
And this other movie is, is fine.
And you know, by the end of it,
I was like, okay, I really care
about what's going on here.
But there was definitely a, a chunk
in there for that first, like 20
minutes where I was just like,
I liked the other movie better.
Sara: I love just when people surprise me.
That's my favorite thing about a movie.
So honestly, it happens all the time.
I'm like one of the only people
who liked the finale of Killing
Eve because it's just a surprise
and it's how it always is for me.
So them going like, and
now we're in a new movie.
I was like, yes, this is the greatest
thing that could have happened.
Emily: I, yeah, I think that the,
I'm gonna agree, Jeremy, that, you
know, if there was an issue that
I had with this movie, it would be
that I feel like more story, each
of those stories deserves more.
And, you know, that's the
movie just being that good, um,
Jeremy: And I, I mean, I'm absolutely
with Sara on the, like, I love a movie
that surprises me and pulls a left turn
as long as the left turn makes sense.
Like,
I'm, I'm, there for it.
I just liked the gay
werewolf movie and I'm, I
Sara: It's a good
Jeremy: myself missing that movie, uh,
because the whole vibe of the movie
changes in those like five minutes.
It's a very, like, different
movie the second half.
It's, you know,
Emily: Ana's death feels very sudden.
Like it just suddenly happens,
you know, and that's it.
Ben: Oh, yeah, no, it
comes out of nowhere.
Emily: yeah, and
Ben: in a bad way, necessarily,
but it is shocking.
Sara: The way that it's laid out is
not how movies are usually laid out.
Like, either that would have been the
first five minutes of the movie or
that would have been the whole movie.
It's like, I feel like if they were
with a bunch of, maybe Hollywood types
or something, they would be like, Okay,
so you got to move this part and, you
know, expand on this and then the ending
has to be this way and I just love
that this movie was nothing like that
because I see those movies all the time.
So I was like, this is great.
But I understand mourning that
story because it is a sudden shift.
I love that bit.
Clara is the one who brings us through to
the next movie because it really is about
the change that she undergoes because of
that queer love story and that's what I
really loved about it I guess maybe but
yeah I could understand it being totally
jarring too because it is it's like
what I didn't think that that was gonna
happen and then there is a moment no
matter who you are I did the same thing
where you go I'm sorry, there's another,
how many minutes left of this movie?
Like, and then I remember being
like, I mean, I'm here for it.
I'm here for it, frankly.
Jeremy: it legitimately is structured
like a Broadway play, not like a movie.
It's like, literally, it's got
the song, the morning, the end
of what's happened, leading into
intermission, and then you come back
and there's another movie on the other
Sara: Yeah, those fatal flaws that we
introduced in those characters whenever
they were young and full of hope and
optimism, now they're gonna come back.
Yep,
I loved
Jeremy: it's like watching Wicked,
you know, it's just full gear shift.
Sara: Hmm,
Jeremy: not the movie Wicked,
I'm, I'm just kidding.
Very worried about that one, but
Emily: about
the musical.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Okay.
So, uh, seeing as we all
recommend this one, uh, what
else do we have to recommend?
Sara, what would you like to pitch people?
Sara: let's go.
This is such a unique movie that
I think it is actually pretty hard
to find something that hits this
exact vibe, but it would be hard
to recommend something like that.
I think maybe if you like this, maybe you
would like, leaven Rockets, I guess The
comic, which is just my favorite comic.
I love.
Good manners and I love love and rockets,
but just that kind of a vignette and like
everything's kind of, it's like, Oh, we're
six pages here and now we've time jumped
and all this other stuff is happening.
That's what I really like about that.
So I think vibe wise, it's a little
similar, very different stories,
but you know, I'm two things that
I have recommended on this podcast.
Definitely before one is the book,
our wives at the bottom of the sea.
I think you would love it
if you liked this movie.
And the movie, The Five Devils,
which is on MUBI right now and is
incredible, but the relationship is
very much what if Ana in this movie
had lived, basically, like, there's no
werewolves, but it's very much vibe wise.
There's a very similar
relationship playing out.
So.
Maybe the comic, or the manga,
uh, Lone Wolf and Cub, honestly.
I mean, the parent feels have
to be pretty strong on this.
I weep whenever I watch this movie.
Just, like, the way that she just
goes, no matter what, I'm standing
with you, is just so beautiful.
And I think that I get that
vibe a lot with Lone Wolf and
Club, er, Lone Wolf and Cub.
And I think maybe the series, the
TV series Castle Rock, which was
like a Stephen King riff, I guess.
It wasn't like Stephen King, but it
had characters from Stephen King novels
popping up and it was just weird.
So I think maybe you would like that.
The writer K Ming Chang did a
book called Organ Meats that I
think people would really love.
Organ Meats, I don't know if it sounds
similar to something like Good Manners.
I don't know.
Uh, Sundial by Catriona
Ward I think would be good.
That's problematic, weird family
stuff that's just more and more
complicated than you would ever think.
And I don't know.
Check out my book because I
love this movie and I gotta say
it really inspired everything.
Everything I've written.
So yeah, I don't know.
This, I think all of that's a
good starting point for you.
Emily: Indeed.
There's a lot of stuff and
that's good, that's good stuff.
Sara: I sure read a lot.
Ben: so, I mentioned it earlier, but if
you want anime where There's wolves, and
all the characters are queer coded, and it
is real, real dark fantasy stuff going on.
Wolf's Reign is a pretty
fantastic 2000s anime.
Emily: rewatched it recently,
and that shit goes so hard,
like, the,
Ben: around, that show.
Emily: yeah, and the, that
show is just and I love it.
It's just got all sorts of crazy
shit going on, and it's so, like,
late 90s anime where they're like,
we're just, we're gonna do this now,
and you're not gonna ask questions,
and I'm like, nope, I'm not.
But they're wolves, they're gay.
That girl's a cat.
Maybe she's real.
Not sure.
Are these people people?
That person's a flower.
Okay.
On that note, I would, I would
also, you know, I, I second that.
And, you know, I've talked about
wolf children, and I feel like
this is, well, this is like the
horror version of wolf children.
Like, If Hayao Miyazaki directed this
story, it would be wolf children.
But, you know, maybe he
would make it a little bit.
He probably wouldn't shy away
from the horror element, but
the mom would probably live.
And, you know, Ana probably would bite
the arm off of Lady Eboshi as well.
So, you know, there's Princess Mononoke.
Check that one out if you like wolves.
and wolf children.
That's a totally different thing,
but it's dope as hell, and it's,
you know, it's quintessential.
Jeremy: Yeah, by sheer coincidence,
I feel like I have to mention Wolf
Children because I just happened
to, like, not knowing anything
about this movie going in other than
that there were werewolves in it.
I just happened to have watched Wolf
Children with my daughter, like, 12
hours before I watched this movie.
And I was like, Huh.
That's a real weird coincidence
that I would happen to pick up two
movies from two different countries
about a woman who has sex with a
wolfman and then has wolf children.
But wolf children is much more about,
like, the raising of kids and dealing with
your, dealing with having children and,
and not knowing what to do for them in
the, the many ways that everybody does.
But.
amplified by them being wolves.
Emily: Does Zuri like it?
Jeremy: I wish it was Amara actually.
Amara loved it.
Yeah.
She, uh, she said she
wants to watch it again.
Which is her seal of endorsement or
she watches something eight times.
That means she likes it.
Yeah, I was gonna say also, like, if
you like movies that are a little gay
and have werewolves, uh, Wes Craven's
Cursed is not nearly as well made as
this movie, but it is a lot of fun.
I really enjoyed that.
It's been a while since I've seen
Cursed, so there may be something
super early 2000s, uh, about it that
I'm not thinking of at the moment.
Emily: There are a couple things.
I've,
Jeremy: I mean
Emily: it.
Yeah, there's
Jeremy: I would suspect
Sara: But Craven's the best.
Jeremy: and nothing, very few
things Wes Craven has, uh, you know,
made are not worth checking out.
Sara: It's true.
And you would think
that that was not true.
I've watched some that I was
like, This is gonna suck.
This is clearly gonna suck.
This is from like 1984.
It is rough stuff.
And then you're like, What?
What?
This is great!
Like this movie rules!
I just love that man.
He's such a good director.
Jeremy: yeah, he's, I don't know,
he's, he's shockingly good in a lot
Sara: Yeah.
Jeremy: Um,
we've had it recommended, I think,
several times on here before.
This week I finally watched Talk to
Me which is one of those movies that
I, 15 minutes in, I was like, I'm so
jealous of the premise of this movie.
Like, that, you know, the, basically,
that the premise of that movie, which
they kind of say in the, the trailers,
but they don't really get into it,
is that, like, basically, there's
this, you know, Hand, which is not
explained, does not need to be explained.
I don't need an explanation for it.
but if, you know, kids, if you hold
it and invite in a ghost, you, you get
possessed and they have to, you know,
kids are doing it as a party trick.
Like they're basically just passing
this around and, you know, getting
possessed as like the equivalent
of doing drugs at a party.
So that they can, you know, one of the
kids describes it as like being in, in
the passenger seat in your own body.
And I was like, Oh yeah, that
is absolutely a thing that would
like, it would catch on immediately
with with teens at parties.
And just like 15 minutes and
I was like, I'm so mad that
I didn't come up with this.
Cause it, it works so well.
And, uh, the movie is.
I mean, it's, it's a clean
95 minutes in and out.
But they're already making a sequel and
I'm curious if they keep being as good
the young cast is really good in it.
So that's one to check out
if you haven't already.
It's, you know, it's on the streaming
services now, so you can actually
watch it without costing yourself
a bucket of change to see it, um,
Emily: saw that one recently, too.
I really liked it.
Ben: so yeah, those are recommendations.
Uh, Sara, where can people
find you and your work?
Sara: Well, I don't know when this is
going live, but I just looked at my
phone and saw that an anthology that
I'm in just came out or was actually
announced, which is Profane Altars,
which is a sword and sorcery anthology.
I finally got to write a sword
lesbian, which was great.
I was surprised nobody's
ever asked me before.
I'm glad somebody finally did ask me, and
I hope that somebody asks me again soon.
But check out Profane Altars
because there's a whole bunch
of really great authors in it.
It is through Weird Punk
Press and, uh, it was a blast.
It was a blast.
And if you want to hear me incorporate
my rabbit loving propaganda into a short
story, this is where that's gonna happen.
Emily: Let me know if you ever
want to write a sword lesbian comic
Sara: I do.
Emily: with air, with,
with, I'll do, I'll draw it.
Sara: Okay.
Emily: Rock and roll.
Sara: Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, it was a blast.
It was so fun to write.
And I wasn't expecting how
fun it was going to be.
I always loved like Conan
stories, but it's like, uh,
you can't write a Conan story.
They're so problematic.
So you're kind of like looking
through and being like, Hmm,
what do I want to do differently?
I guess.
And then once you crack the code,
it's like, this is the best.
The story rules.
Emily: am here for
Sara: Yeah.
It's so fun.
It was so fun.
Emily: I want to draw Conan comics
that aren't problematic as like,
that's what I want to do in retirement.
I just want to draw a bunch of
people with swords and loincloths
walking around and like, a big
bear,
Jeremy: other's autonomy
Sara: yeah.
yeah.
Emily: autonomy and like, you know,
Sara: Being nice to rabbits.
Yep.
Emily: being nice to rabbits.
They fight a bear, but then the, you
know, then they like, befriend the bear.
Sara: Yep.
Have to.
You have to.
Emily: yeah, and then the only
people that they fight or that they
actually kill with their swords
are, like, evil bigot wizards.
Sara: Mm hmm.
Ben: And we're
Sara: Nailed it.
Ben: wizards.
Sara: Yep.
Emily: Yeah, I mean, yeah,
Ben: a okay.
We support that here at
Progressively Horrified.
Jeremy: big wizards, fascist wizards.
Emily: yeah,
Sara: Yeah.
And they almost always are in, for
instance, a Conan novel, so that's
Emily: Oh, yeah, a lot of fascist wizards.
Sara: Yeah.
Emily: and the crazy, like,
sex witches have more character,
Sara: Yep.
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: pro sex witches though, right?
I
Sara: Yeah.
We I mean, how, how could you not be?
Jeremy: sure we're,
Ben: wizard's bad sex, which is good.
Emily: no, the, the, we're pro sex
witches, because, but usually in the, in
these stories, the witches, like, become
a fire, or, like, a zombie or some shit,
Sara: Yep.
Emily: the guy,
and
Ben: witch did become
fire in that Conan movie.
Sara: Yep.
Ha ha!
Ha ha!
Emily: witches,
Jeremy: we're pro sex witches and
Sara: Uh,
Emily: Sandwiches, sex witches,
sandwiches, water witches, fire witches,
avatar witches, um, anyway heart witches.
Which sometimes also wear sex witches.
There's like a, there's
Venn diagram there.
Um, yeah, it's, bless em.
the Love Witch.
We'll get there someday.
anyway, so where do we find
your, remind us where we find
your, uh, stories about rabbits.
Sara: that's it, Weird Punk Books, and
is the publisher of the anthology which
is called Profane Altars, and it has a
really good cover, just in case anybody
wants to go stare at it for a while.
Emily: sounds good.
Sara: Ha ha!
Jeremy: Emily, what about you?
Emily: Mega moth.net.
Mega moth on Patreon, mega moth
on Instagram and mega moth on
pretty much everywhere else.
Jeremy: Nice.
And Ben?
Ben: Yes well make sure to catch me
and Jeremy at FlameCon this August
for the Progressively Horrified live
panel, and the main thing I will be
promoting from now until January, Mr.
Muffins, my new, uh, graphic novel from
Oni Press is coming out January 2025
about a magical corgi destined to save
the universe from an evil alien empire.
It's gonna be super fucking cute
and it's got a lot of action.
Sara: Yay.
Jeremy: Nice
Emily: I'm really excited for that.
Ben: Thank you.
This has been in the works for a while.
I am very excited that I
can finally talk about it.
So yeah, keep an eye out, and when
she can, make sure to pre order Mr.
Muffin's Defender of the Stars.
Jeremy: Yeah, and uh, you can find me
at Jeremy Whitley on Blue Sky and Tumblr
and JRom5id on Instagram and Twitter
go order my book, Navigating With You.
It is available for pre order right now.
It'll be out in August.
Uh, it is coming out the week before
FlameCon, so you can come see me there
and get it signed and we will all
talk about it and how much we love
it, because that's what we'll do.
But, uh, yeah, if, if, uh, you're going to
be at FlameCon, come see Ben and I there.
Uh, if you're not, you can catch me at
DragonCon or, uh, Everfree Northwest
in Seattle that same month as well.
Very busy in August.
But, uh, that is it for us tonight.
Sara, it was fantastic to have you.
Thanks for bringing this one to us.
Emily: Yes,
Sara: I didn't realize that
I did actually, but now
I'm very happy that I did.
So you're welcome.
Jeremy: it's, it's,
been, uh, It's been deep
on the list for a while.
We've been sort of circling
around it and you were like,
you have to talk about this one.
So
Sara: Yeah.
It's, it's unlike anything I've
seen, I guess, in a lot of ways.
There's many reference points to
other things that I've seen, but
it's very unique to itself, I think.
Emily: that's been on my list, my
personal list too, for a really long
time and I'm really glad that I finally
got to sit down and talk about it.
Thank you for
Sara: it.
Emily: sharing this experience with us.
Sara: Yeah.
Jeremy: I think, I feel like
we've done all but one of your
initial list of recommendations.
Now, uh, we haven't done, uh, what is it?
My animal yet,
Sara: Oh yeah.
Oh, that would be good for this one
too, because it's a werewolf movie
and problematic queer relationship.
Yeah.
Jeremy: it all the boxes.
Sara: Yep.
Check in every Sara Century loves it box.
Yep.
Jeremy: All right.
And to all of you for listening.
And until next time, stay horrified.