Travel Buddy with Switchfly

Premium travelers make up a small share of international passengers, yet they generate roughly a quarter of global airline passenger revenue. So airlines keep raising the bar: lie-flat seats, direct aisle access, private doors, bigger lounges. Now basic business fares and lounge access through premium credit cards are bringing a slice of premium to far more travelers, and the question gets harder to dodge. When nearly everyone can buy premium, what still sets an airline apart?

Rachel Satow and Jessica Steinberg dig into the commoditization of premium travel, from 30-minute lounge lines and fare rules that confuse even industry insiders to the premium paradox of cabins that push budget travelers upmarket. They make the case for investing in what travelers remember most: simple fares, frontline teams with the tools and autonomy to solve problems, better recovery when flights are canceled, small moments of care that cost almost nothing, and partners who extend the experience beyond the aircraft. Their advice for airline and loyalty leaders is to take the long view and invest in consistency across the entire journey.

Connect with Switchfly
Website: https://www.switchfly.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/switchfly/
X: https://twitter.com/switchfly
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SwitchflyOfficial

Chapters
[00:00] When yesterday’s luxury becomes today’s table stakes
[01:25] The small group behind a quarter of airline passenger revenue
[02:10] Keeping up with the Joneses and the commoditization of premium
[04:10] Base fares, basic business, and an expanding definition of premium
[05:40] Premium seat growth and the cabin that flips
[07:40] Why simplicity belongs in the premium experience
[09:15] Crowded lounges and benefits that lose their shine
[11:05] Premium features have a life cycle
[13:55] Small gestures that create lasting brand memories
[16:15] Canceled flights, disruption, and premium partnerships on the ground
[17:40] Giving frontline teams the tools and autonomy to serve
[19:40] Why seat upgrades are easier to fund than service
[21:30] Challenging the boardroom to invest in people
[23:45] Memorable moments that cost nothing
[25:30] Putting passenger data to work, and premium demand in 2026
[26:50] The premium paradox: are airlines creating their own demand?
[31:15] What happens when democratizing premium succeeds
[33:40] Route, network, and arrival time as the next tiebreaker
[34:30] Two paths: elevate the whole brand or build true exclusivity
[36:40] Investing in consistency and looking off the plane
[38:10] Closing thoughts

Links mentioned

Creators and Guests

Host
Rachel Satow
Senior Marketing Strategist
Guest
Jessica Steinberg

What is Travel Buddy with Switchfly?

See more at Switchfly.com

Welcome to Travel Buddy,
presented by Switchfly.

In this podcast, we talk about all
things travel, rewards, and loyalty.

Let's get to it.

Brandon Giella: Hello, and
welcome back to another episode of

Travel Buddy, where today we have
special guest Jessica Steinberg.

Once again, thanks for joining.

W- and we are going to discuss the
question of what happens when premium

stops being the differentiation?

What happens when everything is premium?

And where do you go from here on
the customer experience for travel?

So I think, this is, any economist
that's listening would think, you

know, looking through e-economic
history, every industry, what becomes

a luxury or a premium experience
eventually becomes deflated, which is

called productivity, and everything
that that once premium feature when

it gets, it gets become table stakes.

And so you could think, like, once upon
a time, a light bulb was an incredible

luxury, and in some parts of the
world, it's still an incredible luxury.

But for most people, they have a
lot of light bulbs in their home.

and same thing with TVs and travel.

So what once was a very fancy first
class seat is now kind of table

stakes for like a premium seat.

So what happens now when
everything becomes table

stakes that was once premium?

And so to introduce the topic,
I wanna pass it over to Rachel.

Rachel, tell us a little bit
about what you're thinking and

what you're seeing in the market
when it comes to premium travel.

Rachel Satow: Yeah.

So this is such an interesting, an
interesting thing that's happening,

but premium travelers are, by nature,
a pretty small but important group.

They represent about 6% of international
travelers, and in North America

specifically, they're just hovering
around 10% of international traffic.

But of that super small group, they
are generating $180 billion in global

airline passenger revenue, and overall,
that accounts for almost 25% of, of the

gl- global airline passenger revenue.

So you have this super small group
that is making up a really heavy

part of the passenger revenue.

And what we're seeing is that because
they generate so much revenue, there

is this, like, race to keep up with the
Joneses in terms of premium features

and in an attempt to differentiate.

But the problem that's happening
is we're almost seeing a commodi- a

commoditization of the, the, the premium
experience because everyone is chasing

the same type of features in order to
say, "Well, hey, this airline offers

lounge access and two extra inches of
your seat and drinks and snacks, etc."

Okay, we also need to do that, and then
we're gonna push it further, and then

that airline A comes back and is like,
"Well, hey, they're offering this.

We need to also add it."

So the floor is constantly rising, and
you're seeing this, like, chase for

the most premium experience possible.

But in reality, what's happening is
because this is such a small group of

people, premium experience as they're
trying to have that feature parity,

really going down because, you know,
we'll get into this in a little bit.

It, doesn't feel premium anymore.

Like, now it's so accessible, and you have
different individuals who are, you know,

they might not have the proper status
to get into it, but they're willing to

pay to get into it, to have that little
taste of a premium experience, and then it

becomes, well, is this actually worth it?

Like, I had this status, I worked for this
status, and now it doesn't actually mean

anything because XYZ person is also able
to, to go after it in a different way.

so there is this, this, this chase
for just keeping up with the Joneses,

like I mentioned, and, it's, it's
really fascinating to see how that's

actually affecting customer experience
overall for these premium flyers.

Brandon Giella: Yeah, on
that point, Jessica, what's,

what's been your experience?

I know you live this all the time and
you're, you're deep in the weeds on all

this stuff, but, you know, what has been
your experience as a, a premium traveler?

Jessica Steinberg: Yeah, I mean, I
totally agree with Rachel's take.

I think what's really interesting or
been really interesting to watch is

these airlines are not only elevating
their premium experience, and so, you

know, you're essentially ca- walking
into a, a small New York apartment

on your, on your airplane seat,
with all of the, you know, elevated

offerings that airlines are providing.

But beyond even just elevating
the current, you know, commonplace

lie-flat seats, things like that,
there's, I think, you know, again, this

commoditization of what is premium,
and I think it's kind of expanded.

So, you know, you have
United offering base Polaris.

You have Delta's basic business.

You have this kind of more commonplace,
more attainable form of premium travel.

So, you know, you're
not flying in Polaris.

You're not in, like, the giant suites,
but you have the base Polaris, so

you have something better than,
you know, the folks in economy.

And so again, I think it's, it's not
only elevating the current premium

experience, but it's expanding what
a premium experience even means.

and I think we're gonna just keep seeing
more and more of this, where eventually

it'll be more commonplace to see a plane
full of premium seats with only a small

amount of economy versus the other way
around, which has been really interesting.

But again, to Rachel's point,
are you … If everybody's flying

premium, are you flying premium?

I think, you know, that's
kind of the question I have

Rachel Satow: Yeah, and, and it, it is,
it is really fascinating to see just

how much these, these major airlines
are investing in premium experiences.

Not just the overall experience,
but, like, in order to catch up or

almost get ahead in, in seat capacity.

So United has increased their premium
seat capacity since 2019 by 46%, compared

to just over 10% at Delta and American.

Now, whether that is, going back to the
idea of, of, like, feature parity and

just, like, Delta and American already had
X amount of, of premium seats and United

is catching up, that's, you know, to be
debated . But, you're, you're seeing this

true investment in just, like, the idea of
a premium, a premium experience and making

sure that premium seats are available.

and just to your point , like, if you're
flying on a plane where, you know, 80%

of the seats are premium, then it…

Doesn't it kinda flip-flop?

Brandon Giella: Yeah, it's kinda like
in other industries, you know, a lot of,

like academics, people in the education
world talk about grade inflation.

You know, if everybody-- if one
professor or a s- college or, you

know, university, everybody gets an
A, then it's like, well, what the,

that degree is meaningless, you know.

Or

Rachel Satow: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Giella: trophies in other
sports and things like that.

But, but I'm, I'm curious, it sounds like
what you guys are getting at is there's

i-in addition to some of that, kind
of, y-you know, I call it, call it seat

inflation, but it really historically
is kind of a deflationary thing.

but, it sounds like it's adding
a lot of complexity to the

traveler experience as well.

Like, so you've got basic economy,
then you've got main economy, and then

you've got, you know, premium, and then
you got premium plus, and then there's

Rachel Satow: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Giella: gradations of,
like, what my experience is like.

So where do you go from here?

Like, how do y- is it, is it that we're,
like, teasing apart, like, what is

premium, but then is it, like, maybe
premium becomes something else where

it's, like, simplicity or service,
or, like, how do you, like, start to

tease apart, like, how do you define
premium and then what to do about it?

But I don't know, that's
kinda where my mind's going.

Jessica Steinberg: Yeah, I think it's,
you know, the part of the premium

experience is simplicity, and I think
some airlines do it better than others.

But, you know, in, in a former life, you
know, working in the airline industry

and, you know, actually having experience
watching customers show up to the airport

where the fare that they booked has
changed since they booked it, you know,

what's included, whether it be a checked
bag or a carry-on and things like that,

and watching them be incredibly confused.

I think, you know, there's something
to be said for keeping things

simple and, you know, there is
constant change in this market.

I think, you know, even being in the
industry, it's difficult to keep up, so

how do you expect customers to keep up?

Brandon Giella: Yeah, it makes me
think of, you know, something we,

we talked about before we started
recording was about lounge access.

I'm a, I'm a, American Express
Platinum card holder, and so

you get Priority Pass lounges.

You also get the Centurion lounges.

But every time I go,
there's a half-hour wait.

And so, but then it's also,
like, the rules are changing.

Like, I can't bring guests anymore
unless I heard- hit a certain

threshold of spending for the
year, and then I can allow guests.

But then it's o- it's only, there, you
know, I talked about, I think on the last

episode, like, there's certain lounges
that, like, my American Express app will

tell me I have access to, but then I get
there, and the person actually like, "No,

you don't have this, like, special ticket
or something on your, you know, ticket."

I had the wrong acronym or something on my
boarding pass, and they didn't let me in.

So anyway, I'm curious, how do you
guys think about, how you would,

like, define, premium for somebody
to have that kind of experience?

Like, either coming at the gate,
the way they check out, what,

like, seats they might get.

Like, how do you think about that?

Jessica Steinberg: Yeah, I mean, I think,
so as a, I'm on the other side, I'm a

Chase Sapphire, Reserve card holder,
and I've had really similar experiences

where, you know, you're going, you have
an hour till your flight, but the wait

to get into the lounge is 30 minutes.

And, you know, I find myself thinking,
"What am I paying, you know, $700+ a

year, for if I can't get into the lounge?"

And so it's that commoditization of,
you know, if everybody has access to the

lounge, is it really access to a lounge?

and so I, I do think it's interesting
having seen, you know, airlines like

JetBlue actually get into the lounge
space recently, and trying to elevate,

you know, customer experience there
and the premium experience there.

it's definitely been interesting, but
I do think, you know, the Chase and

Amex examples are really common, and
airlines have to be just as careful.

If they're gonna offer, you know,
premium customers who purchase a

premium seat access to their lounge,
but 80% of the flight is a premium

seat, then how does that work?

and obviously, you know, it's, that's
maybe what we're looking at for future.

It's not current, but it's definitely
something I think that's kind

of where the trend is heading.

And I do think, airlines have to be
careful, also the credit card companies,

'cause if, if the benefits aren't there,
then what is enticing a customer to stay?

and I think, I personally think there's
a lot of room for growth for the larger

airlines in the premium space to focus
more on where is the customer journey

still maybe even a little bit painful?

What happens when you
lose a customer's bag?

What does that customer service look like?

You know, things like that where a
customer's gonna remember that maybe

negative experience, and how can you make
that better for a premium customer versus

just, you know, giving them lounge access.

Rachel Satow: Yeah, I completely
agree that it, a premium

experience is not a premium seat.

The two are, are … the
two are not the same thing.

or even the features on the plane.

I think it begins at the moment
of booking, and even maybe before

that, the moment of search.

What does the premium experience
really look like for that 5% of people

who are flying, internationally?

And I think it's important for us to
acknowledge that, you know, features,

premium features have a life cycle.

Features in general have a life cycle.

To your point earlier, Brandon, like,
light bulbs used to be the, the hot

new thing, and TVs used to be the
hot new thing, and it's the same

situation with the premium experience,
or really any, any experience when

it comes to, to product involvement.

so features do have that life cycle and,
you know, life s- lie-flat seats used

to be revolutionary in, in a premium
experience, and then it was direct aisle

access was the differentiator, and then
it became, like, private doors, and now

it's Emirates private apartment little
situation that you mentioned, Jess.

And because that floor keeps rising, you
have to look beyond what is the physical

product that is, quote, unquote, premium.

Because if you are investing so much in
the, the tangible, the intangible becomes,

almost a back burner, and, those are
often the moments that matter the most.

You know, was there an
extra level of care?

Did you have You know, Brandon, you
mention often on the podcast that

you're, you travel with small children.

Do you have someone there knowing that
this premium flyer has small children?

Do you have someone there that can
kind of assist you with the, the

carry-ons that you have for your, your,
you know, your car seats, et cetera?

Like, there is something to be said
about the human aspect of a premium

status or a premium experience that
goes well beyond just the product

availability for that premium experience.

And when you're thinking
about how to differentiate,

that is what will count most.

They are E- if everybody can get
a lie-flat seat or direct aisle

access or a private apartment, not
everybody can get a private apartment,

but it, the, the point stands.

But if the physical product, you
know, is pretty consistent across

airlines, what does the entire
brand experience really feel like?

And if you're solely focused on the
physical product of premium, then you

might still have areas, to Jess's point,
where there, that would, there are

those friction points, and that tears
apart the premium experience altogether

Brandon Giella: I totally agree.

I totally agree.

And I, I would go so far as to say that
those intangible experiences, as you say,

like kind of that overarching experience
that you have with a brand, the little

things actually become way more important,

Rachel Satow: Mm-hmm.

Brandon Giella: think that
they're that expensive.

I think what we would naturally think
of is like, "Oh, yeah, I need to

create this incredible, you know, seat
or lounge or something like that."

And it's like, I actually
don't think it's that.

And what comes to mind
for me is, I went to a…

It was a five-star hotel, but I went
to this hotel in London, and they knew

that we had a two-year-old with us.

And so they have these-- I'm sure they
have like a whole box of little teddy

bears behind the counter or whatever.

But they gave my daughter a teddy
bear, or it was a dragon or something.

And I-- we still have that little
dragon around, and I still think

of that hotel and that moment.

It was that one thing where they gave
a, a dollar you know, dragon to my

little girl, and like it just makes
me have such a great impression of

that brand, a tiny little thing.

or I, I bought a car recently at a
dealership that's known for really

great customer experience, and,
and they had a box of like, crayons

and, and like coloring sheets for
my little girl so that we could-- I

could talk to the, the dealer, and
she could be busy doing her thing.

And like, it's things like that.

Or, there's a- an advertising executive
named Rory Sutherland who argues that

if you had a-- if you put a lot more
of your marketing budget toward a call

center and had a lot of people available
to talk to human beings and work out

their problems, that would actually be
one of the more effective things you

could do in your overall marketing.

So similarly, like having more gate agents
available so that you, you know, could

have-- you could service more people,
and there's not these crazy long lines,

and where you could actually create a
brand that, travelers see on those, you

know, introduction safety videos when
they're on the back of the headrest

where everything looks so lovely, people
are happy, nobody's yelling at you.

'Cause meanwhile, I go to major
airlines, and I'm trying to get all

my bags, and there's this like three
huge long lines, and I'm dealing with a

kiosk that barely works half the time.

Somebody's yelling at me to go in
this line, and it's just chaos.

And it's like, what if you just had more
gate agents available to like talk to

people and treat them like human beings?

That's not super flashy, but it makes a
really nice experience, and I think that's

something that should be really valuable.

Jessica Steinberg: Yeah, I totally agree.

Brandon Giella: now.

But that's me.

Jessica Steinberg: I, I totally agree.

I mean, if you've ever been near
a gate for a canceled flight, you

know, late at night even, if there's
no hotels in the area, if it's, you

know, weather related, it's not even
most of the time the airline's fault.

But being able to handle those
customers' problems better, I think

would go a lot further than the
lounge access they had on the way, you

know, on the way there to their trip.

Brandon Giella: Totally

Jessica Steinberg: that
is, you know, it's hard.

It's not an easy thing to fix.

You know, you can't create hotels,
but there are definitely ways I think

airlines could tap into those slightly
more painful but inevitable points

of the travel journey that I think
would kind of elevate that experience.

even as far as like I've

I don't know about you guys, I have
waited on so many car rental lines for

a ridiculous amount of time, but Avis
now has, I think it's called Avis First,

where, you know, the car is waiting for
you when you walk out of the airport.

You don't have to get on
the shuttle with your bags.

It's not a whole, you know, song
and dance like it is usually.

Maybe airlines need to partner with them
and, you know, offer things like that

and, you know, give customers the chance
to have just a more seamless experience.

You know, get what they paid for.

Rachel Satow: Yeah, that's such a great
example of, and, and like a, a great

thought process of I can't necessarily
improve my direct premium experience

for whatever reason, are there people
I can partner with that have an, an

equally experience that, we can kind
of smooth out that kink in the process.

I think to, Brandon, to your point
about like some of these improvements

may not be, you know, a, a high-ticket
i- item for, for airlines to invest in.

I mean, w- everything we're describing
is very service-oriented, and in

reality, adding an extra head at the
counter is, is definit- like, yes,

obviously it comes at a cost, but
ensuring that those people feel, the

autonomy to make decisions and that they
also have the tools that they need and

that their experience is, is seamless
because trickles down from the top.

If your, if your gate agents don't have
the proper, you know, technology or

it's, it's difficult for them to kind
of navigate ways to provide excellent

service, that's something that in and of
itself can create a premium experience for

all travelers, not just premium travelers.

and it makes a huge difference because,
I mean, yes, one more head would be

great, but if that one more head is
also dealing with, you know, slow

technology, inability to see everything,
they, will face the same problems and

you still see that backup happening.

I think it's really important that
sometimes just investing in the training

and the technology that your, your
team, your on-the-ground team will be

dealing with, it can go, go miles, pun
intended, for the, for the everyday

traveler as well as your premium traveler.

so don't forget about the people who
are, like, having to provide this service

and ensuring that they get the proper
training and that they have the tools

that they need to be, providing the
best services possible for any traveler

Brandon Giella: I, I have a hypothesis
about this, I think like to your point,

like it's the overall experience,
like one more gate agent, but it's

also the support, the tools, the
software, you know, that kind of thing.

And I-- my hypothesis would be that I
think it's easier to put forward a loyalty

program or a, a customer experience
initiative or premium initiative when

you can say, like, "We're adding this
number of seats with this price, with

this margin," and like sell that through
the organization to create the program

than it is to say, do this like kind
of, know, kind of initiative on our like

software or like our customer support,
you know, process or something like that."

That's a little bit harder to see, like
to make that direct premium connection,

like on a spreadsheet to sell through
leadership and through the board.

That would be my, my guess.

But I, but I, I would encourage people
to think like, like Rory Sutherland talks

about, again, that, that advertising
executive, he talks about how like

if it's thinking about the psychology
of the traveler, and he makes a point

that like waiting for an Uber is more
stressful on the human mind if they don't

know when the car is going to show up.

So if they just have like a timer
and like a map, and they embed that

in the software, it alleviates that
stress and anxiety in somebody's mind.

It's a very small thing to do, but it
actually e-elevates the experience.

Or like I read an article in New York
Times years ago that was talking about

like luxury is actually like could be
just quietness, like silence is a luxury.

And so you, you could put on like
noise-canceling headphones and have a way

better experience because it's just quiet.

It's not as chaotic.

You know, there's things like that that
I, I bet there's more creative approaches.

But I-I'm talking

Rachel Satow: I mean, I would, I
would challenge an- I would challenge

anyone walking into the boardroom
who is saying that you need to do a

physical product upgrade first rather
than investing in your people to just

really take a look at some of the
customer feedback regarding service.

so JD Power's, 2026, I think it's the
only for North America, but the, the

airline satisfaction survey that they
have is it focuses heavily on onboard

experience, day of travel experience,
and communication and value for money.

So when, when you are seeing that
airline satisfaction study saying

that the onboard experience and the
day-of-travel experience matter more than

the value for money, you kind of have
to take a look at your service because

if ev- again, if we go to the fact
that feature parity is a thing when it

comes to, to premium access, like your
experience becomes your differentiator,

and we've talked about this before.

But in that same, the 2025 version of
that study, it talks about how it's,

it's over 80% or something like that,
of passengers who say that they had

a, a perfect airline experience would
come back and fly that airline again.

So when you take into account how heavily
people are saying the onboard experience

and the day-of-travel experience matters,
and that it is those two things in

particular can make or break whether or
not someone flies your airline again.

Like, I, I, like I said, I would
challenge anybody walking into a

boardroom saying that they need, need,
you know, doors, and, and extra privacy

rather than investing in the people
providing experience and just making

a more seamless, a, a, a seamless
path both for your employees and your,

your, your premium flyers and, you
know, your non-premium flyers as well.

Like, To me, that's way more important in,
differentiation than it is, you know, "Oh,

okay, I have another inch of leg room."

Then again, I'm not the tallest
person, so maybe another inch

of leg room is important.

Brandon Giella: enough

Jessica Steinberg: It's okay.

I'm not, also not the tallest person,
so the inch of leg room doesn't

really do much for, for me anyway.

But I think, you know, Brandon's example
is a great example of, you know, he

remembered that, you know, the hotel of
someone that gave his daughter something.

And, you know, I've had experiences on
airlines where, you know, the flight

attendant or the in-flight crew know, you
know, I'm flying for a bachelorette party

or whatever it might be, and they, you
know, make an announcement on the plane.

Like, that costs nothing.

but it's memorable.

It's funny.

It's, you know … It makes the
experience, you know, something

that you look back on versus just
another flight that you took.

And so, and again, those
things tend to cost nothing.

Now, he did, he did give us all a free
drink, but, you know, that I can't

imagine cost too, too much in, you
know, in return for, you know, the brand

equity that it, it gave all 10 of us

Rachel Satow: Yeah.

There was, there was an, an example, that
I talked about in a c- a few episodes

back of, friend of mine who went to go
see the, the Eras Tour in London, and

pretty much everybody on the flight was
going specifically for the Eras Tour,

and they … And, like, the, the pilot
ended up making a Taylor Swift joke.

The, you know, they played a song, etc.

So it was like, if you just … I mean,
the airlines already know who's flying.

You know details about these
people, especially your

premium, your premium flyers.

So, like, just use those to your
advantages to, to, to create a, a, just a

slightly different experience than, "Okay,
everybody, we're buckling our seat belts,

and you're gonna watch the, the video,
and at the end you're gonna go either

grab your bag from above, or you're,
you're, you're gonna go pick it up at the,

Brandon Giella: Yeah.

Rachel Satow: at the,
the, the luggage claim."

So definitely there's ways, small ways
that don't cost anything to, to make

a truly differentiated experience.

Brandon Giella: Totally.

I mean, a simple one as you were
talking, I was thinking is like you,

you already know on my itinerary
or on, on my boarding pass that I

have-- you ask for the birthdate of
all the people that are on there.

If you see one that's less than five years
old, then like put me in the pre-boarding.

Just put that on my boarding
pass already, not group six.

You know I need to go on the
pl- you know, it's just little

things like that, like super easy.

Anyway, I'm curious, so a-as, as
we kinda, kinda close out, I wanna

talk, back to your point, Rachel,
about, that these premium travelers

are the minority in terms of the
overall bookings, but the revenue

generated is, is pretty substantial
for this chunk of, of travelers.

i- are there any more thoughts that you
might have on maybe the demand side?

Like I know that price, cost of
flights right now, you know, kind

of fall of 2026 are getting a lot
more expensive because of jet fuel

prices and other things like that.

But, but are there things that you might,
you know, think about or recommend when

you're thinking about actually these
premium travelers where they're not

price sensitive and, you know, there
are things that we can recommend maybe

to, to premium travelers that would
be willing to pay a lot more and, you

know, just kind of that, that thread.

Is there any more there, you think?

Rachel Satow: Yeah, I mean, so, something
that I've, I've been thinking about

is almost, granted, there is a lot of
investment into premium experiences

and, and premium products throughout
airlines, but it, it begs the question,

are we just creating a paradox where
we're seeing an investment from the

airlines because there is a high amount
of, of passenger revenue that comes from

premium seats, so they are investing
more in premium experiences, so you have,

you know, more premium seats available.

But that also mean … But,
but the amount of people that

are traveling doesn't change.

So you then see the people who would
technically be flying, you know, economy

or, or like, the cheapest fares possible,
almost their hand is being forced into

investing in a premium experience,
whether they really want to or not.

Like, I myself am a budget flyer.

I do not mind sitting in the back, as
long as it's not next to the bathroom.

And I am totally comfortable with that.

That's fine with me.

but would probably be challenges
from my side because I'm not,

I'm also not a frequent flyer.

I, you know, probably take one to two
trips, major trips throughout the year,

and then, like, it's smaller, localized,
like here, I live in Gainesville, Florida.

over to Atlanta, that's a
45-minute flight from where I am.

So, like, there might be
some, some mini ones in there.

So for me, I'm not in- I'm not thoroughly
investing in a premium experience every

time I fly because it's so infrequent.

And you will probably face this, like
I said, this paradox of airlines are

creating more premium experiences,
so people who might not invest in

the premium experiences as it exists
today, their hand is almost forced in

those premium experiences, and then
they can report, "Well, our premium

experiences are up X amount of revenue."

And it's like, yeah, because
you've, you caused that.

You caused that to happen.

and it just kind of snowballs, right?

So then they invest more into
the premium experiences, and more

people are almost forced into it.

So I think, And that's me rambling.

But it's just I Take a good hard look
at who's actually flying your, your

airlines, because might have the people
like myself who pretty infrequent

flyers who just need to get from point
A to point B safely and in the most

fiscally responsible way possible.

And don't necessarily want to force
them to to invest more in their, the

experience that they're wanting just
because you're chasing that next dollar.

That in and of itself is going to, to ruin
your, your overall customer experience

Jessica Steinberg: Yeah, I can go

Brandon Giella: there's analysts that
look at all this kind of stuff and,

Rachel Satow: Sure

Brandon Giella: through the data.

But yeah, it's, it's hard.

And it, like people change
during the seasons too.

It's like sometimes on this trip I'm
flying out tonight, I want the bare

bones, cheapest possible flight, I'm
gonna have like an iPad with me, and

that's all I'm gonna have with me.

You know?

But like some other times with my family
or whatever, I do want that really nice

Rachel Satow: Yeah

Brandon Giella: you know?

So anyway,

Jessica Steinberg: I completely agree,
and I think, you know, it is kinda

forcing a lot of customers' hands.

Like I said, the basic, you know, the
business basic or, you know, the mini,

you know, I guess call it premium
experience where you get some of the,

you know, the good stuff, but it's some
of the economy stuff too, is definitely

forcing people's hands because there's,
you know, more and more of those seats

and less and less of economy seats.

but I definitely think, you know, it's,
it's interesting to see these airlines

continue to evolve 'cause again, I think
they are kind of creating their own,

I guess, call it, you know, demand.

but I think, again, focusing a little
bit more on those disruption points where

they're inevitably gonna happen is gonna
be where the airlines can truly, you

know, differentiate themselves between,
you know, premium and not premium

Rachel Satow: Yeah.

Brandon Giella: Well, is there anything
else that, comes to mind for you

guys that, you know, data that you've
been reading or, or any other kind

of, kind of articles or, or points
as we close out this conversation?

Rachel Satow: I mean, I think the,
the biggest, and this is not something

that we can answer today, I don't
think anybody could really answer.

It's more of a just, like, food for
thought for the, for the listeners.

But, like, airlines have spent so
many years democratizing access to

premium or minimum, like, piecemealing
the premium experience for a regular

flyer, you know, the question that
they need to ask themselves is, what

happens when we succeed in that effort?

Like, and everybody has access
to a pre- at least little parts

of the premium experience.

Because exclusivity exclusivity
in the premium experience

doesn't scale infinitely.

It's not like you can keep
going, keep going, keep going.

You know, airlines want more premium
customers, but part of that whole value

proposition of a premium experience is
that fewer people receive the experience.

And to just keep s- keep saying
this, but, like, if everybody's

premium, is there really a premium?

And while I think, you know, in the short
term they can, they can have, force the,

force the hand a little bit, but the, you
know, the addressable market can expand

because there are people who are willing
to, to move, into that, like, upmarket.

it, premium just, it, it doesn't mean
that it's exclusively corporate anymore,

and it, you know, these leisure travelers
like yourself, when selectively you

want to be a premium traveler, you can.

Like, they will expand the pool.

Yes, that will happen, but your
overall experience of this, this

idea of premium, premium offerings,
like, it cannot scale infinitely.

And I think we … You know, something
I was thinking about internally with

our team is, you know, this idea of
the long view, and the long view is

instead of looking in quarters and
just making, you know, expanding your

margins quarter over quarter in order
to make stakeholders happy, you need

to be looking five, 10, 15 years later.

Because if everybody continues to invest
in a premium experience, you need to

find ways that truly feel premium.

or else it's going to be, you know,
like a basic economy seat again

Brandon Giella: I,

Jessica Steinberg: Yeah.

Brandon Giella: agree

Jessica Steinberg: I think it, like
you said, Rachel, if peop- if airlines

are focusing so much on the premium
experience, then I think at some point

they're gonna have to look a little
bit further on either end of the travel

journey and figure out what are the ways
that we can improve experience there.

Because if, you know, if I'm looking for
a flight and there are three premium seats

on three airlines that, you know, are
about the same price, what I'm gonna start

looking at is, you know, route or network.

Where, where am I flying into?

What time am I getting in?

I- which is, you know, getting me
into the airport at the better time.

You know, do I wanna skip
rush hour in New York City?

Things like that.

Those smaller things that I think
maybe airlines are thinking a little

bit less about when it comes to
the premium experience, I think

will probably start to matter more

Brandon Giella: if I could summarize,
like based on both what, what you said

just now, it, it's sort of like one
end of creating a premium experience,

your, your overall brand, there's
just improvements that you could

probably make on the service side.

Just literally making people's like the,
the customer service, customer experience,

that they have just better overall, just
being treated like a human being and

looking at those details and is there
a way we can improve the technology,

the call centers, the gate agents,
like that whole, you know, booking to

plane deboarding, kind of experience.

So there's that, and then on the
other end, it's like, okay, for truly

premium, premium, you know, loyalty
or traveler experience, there's

something maybe further afield and
much more exclusive to be focusing on.

And, and what comes to mind there is
maybe like the American Express Centurion

card, which is almost like mythical.

Like some people don't even know if it
exists, you know, the, the mythical black

card that you get invited to eventually.

some say it's like to spend, I think,
$400,000 on their card per year to be

able to even begin to be invited and
go through the application process.

And then what I've heard is it's $50,000 a
year in fees to be able to hold that card.

So that's like ultra, ultra-luxury.

so it's not quite that, but
what I do love about that is

like you are invited to this.

You do not-- You are not p- you
know, you don't just get in.

But I love that idea of like I am truly
a premium loyal member of this brand.

I don't think it has to be
that extreme, but just like,

you're, you're not allowed in.

You know?

This is like reserved for
like our most loyal people.

So I think there's like two
ways to be thinking about that.

If everything's premium, maybe
elevate the overall brand experience,

but then maybe there is like a true
elevated exclusive, you know, premium

product that you could offer somehow.

Is

Rachel Satow: Yeah, I think,

Brandon Giella: of what we talked about?

Rachel Satow: yeah, I think the only
thing I would kind of, the only thing

I would put an asterisk on is, I
don't think it's limited to service.

I, I think you … Yes, service is a
major part of, of, of customer experience,

but, I think it's more of a bucket
item of like invest in consistency,

because at the end of the day, people
really want something that's reliable.

And a spec- spectacular seat,
a, a really beautiful lie-flat

seat with private door, etc.,

the, a spectacular seat is followed by a
bad lounge experience or even just like,

you know, poorly stocked lounge because
it, everybody's there, or a broken app

or, you know, just terrible recovery in,
in, in times of destruct- disruption.

Like, all of that can
really affect things.

And so I think investing in
consistency, not just service.

Because service, yes, is, is one
of the tangible aspects there, but

consistency across the board of
are our lounges properly stocked?

Do they have enough people
walking around making sure?

Are we ensuring that, you know, granted
capacity keeps, keeps, increasing at these

lounges, but like are we making sure that
this still feels like a premium asset?

so that consistency I think
really becomes the luxury product

aspect of premium experiences.

If we were to say start
to look off your planes.

Like, if you can't continue to make the
actual experience of a, of a premium

seat and a premium ticket holder,
better on your planes, start looking

off your planes because that's m- that
consistency and I, and that experience I

think is where the real opportunity lies

Brandon Giella: Great word.

A great word.

And I feel like we should post-script
this entire conversation to say

this is enormously challenging.

Like, we, we

Rachel Satow: Oh, yeah

Brandon Giella: know, leadership at major
airlines and, and all of their various

partners, like rising fuel prices.

You have pilots, weather.

Like, it's an enormously complicated
challenge, and we, we empathize with that.

But there are some things on this end,
you know, of the loyalty provider end and

on the traveler end that I think there
are some things that, that, that would

be great to be thinking about this year.

So I'll

Rachel Satow: Right.

Brandon Giella: Team, thank you so much.

I love your insights.

I appreciate your experience and
expertise, as always, and I'm excited

to see you again on the next show.

We'll see you then.

Rachel Satow: Thanks, Brandon

Jessica Steinberg: Thanks for having me