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As a small business owner, you need to be a lot of things to make your business go—but you don't have to be a marketer alone. Join host Dave Charest, Director of Small Business Success at Constant Contact, and Kelsi Carter, Brand Production Coordinator, as they explore what it really takes to market your business. Even if marketing's not your thing! You'll hear from small business leaders just like you along with industry experts as they share their stories, challenges, and best advice to get real results. This is the 2x Webby Award Honoree Be A Marketer podcast! New episodes coming in July!
On today's episode, you'll hear from a personal branding expert who's helped countless professionals go from hiding in plain sight to owning the spotlight. This is the Be A Marketer podcast.
Dave Charest:My name is Dave Sherest, director of small business success at Constant Contact, and I help small business owners like you make sense of online marketing. And on this podcast, we'll explore what it really takes to market your business, even if marketing's not your thing. No jargon, no hype, just real stories to inspire you and practical advice you can act on. So remember, friend, you can be a marketer. And at Constant Contact, we're here to help.
Dave Charest:Well, hello, friend, and thanks for joining us for another episode of the Be a Marketer podcast. And, of course, it's time to say hello to my podcast, Better Half, Kelsi Carter. Hi, Kelsey.
Kelsi Carter:Hi, Dave.
Dave Charest:Always good to see you. I got a quick question for you.
Kelsi Carter:Maybe a quick answer.
Dave Charest:Oh, let's see. Have you ever felt unsure about how much of yourself to show at work? I'm not talking clothing wise. I just mean in terms of personality and those types of things.
Kelsi Carter:Yeah. I think so. I mean,
Kelsi Carter:even like a little bit of, like, clothing wise in a sense of just making sure I have, like, a little bit of myself in the clothes, but still dressing like nice. But definitely, especially with someone who does have tattoos, I never wanna come across because I know a lot of misconception is that unprofessionals and with tattoos, but I obviously am not like that at work. So it's what I get a little self conscious sometimes in very, like, corporate settings with that because I feel like maybe there's some judgment there, but that's also just me being a little self aware. But Yeah.
Kelsi Carter:More, like, self aware that I need to. I feel like no one is actually thinking that. I think it's just more I'm thinking they're thinking that.
Dave Charest:I'm thinking that. They're thinking that. I'm thinking that. I'm thinking that. So well, it's one of those things.
Dave Charest:Right? I think, obviously, I think the temperature around that has has changed a lot. But, I mean, as someone with tattoos myself, I'm but I've always been the type of person where, like, I'm gonna have them in places where people don't know I have them unless I choose to show them kind of thing. Right? So, like, I definitely get your hesitation there.
Dave Charest:But I think it makes sense. Right? Like, I think in many ways, we wanna show our personalities in in a way. And and I think we have a guest with us today who really helps people figure out what they should do and how to bring their personality into their work and how to use that to their advantage. Right?
Dave Charest:Like, so why don't you tell us about our guest today?
Kelsi Carter:Absolutely. So today's guest is Christine Grittman. She's a personal strategist, speaker, and host of the podcast, let's talk about brand. Christine's worked with business owners and marketers around the world to help them build confidence in how they show up and share their story in a way that's real and memorable.
Dave Charest:Now at the time of our recording, both now and when we spoke with Christine, she is a an American living in The UK, which is very interesting. And where I first met Christine was actually in The UK. And Christine's got a background in journalism, social media, and brand strategy, of course. And she's really built this reputation on helping people embrace what makes them different. Right?
Dave Charest:She really believes that the digital world has opened the door for small business owners to show up in ways they really never could before without needing a big budget or a big team to do that. And in our conversation with Christine, you're gonna hear how Christine helps small business owners, of course, turn their personality into their most powerful marketing tool, why showing up as yourself builds trust faster than any polished pitch could, and really easy ways to use email and content to grow your brand without burning out. So let's go to Christine now as she shares why she's so passionate about helping people show up confidently and authentically.
Christine Gritmon:It's hard for it, really. I just love the small and the personal. There's so many people out there doing incredible things, and they don't realize the unprecedented opportunity they have with all these digital tools to get themselves out there like never before. You don't have to take out an ad in the penny savers. You don't have to rely on foot traffic.
Christine Gritmon:You can reach people from all over the world if you know how to leverage these tools, which in many cases can be free or low cost.
Dave Charest:Yeah. You're speaking my language here. I think that's one of the big advantages against the big box stores that small businesses do have is that connection to the local community, the experiences that they can create, and just the fact that they themselves are the thing that makes them unique. Right? And leaning into the people that work for them also is just a a different thing that you're not gonna get, particularly when, you know, I'm always saying the big box stores are trying to remove the human element from the interactions that you're going to, and it's like
Kelsi Carter:In many cases. And I think we're actually interestingly enough, I think the pandemic, it's done a weird thing where on the one hand, a lot of us are doing some more things online because we've gotten very used to, like, instant delivery and stuff. But when we want an experience, we want an experience. And I feel like the small businesses, the local mom and pops, all of that, they feed our craving for community. Even if we're not literally going to a store, even if we're just, you know, buying something off of someone's Instagram, there's a human connection there.
Christine Gritmon:It really reminds us about that human connection in a way. So I feel like we've kind of gotten more split, and I think it's part of why malls have been dying for a while too, which is that they're kinda the middle ground of I can just order it online if I want this versus a smaller business where even if it is online, it feels more personal. It's just kind of an interesting it all kind of plays to our human need for community versus our selfish need for immediacy and just getting what we want. It's very complicated, but I think that that complication allows for incredible opportunities for the human to shine through. I have bought things from small makers online mostly because I like them.
Christine Gritmon:You know? And I wanna support them. You get to be part of that small business's story, and that's really appealing. That goes beyond stuff.
Dave Charest:Yeah. For sure. Particularly too when you start to think about where that particular maker or business owner may be in their journey. I mean, I'm sure you can remember your first client, right, when you first right? And, like, all of that is just an interesting part of the journey and a memory that someone's gonna hold with them.
Dave Charest:And so it's really supporting things in a different way. So I've got a question for you. I'm curious. You went to school for film, if I'm not Yeah. So more specifically, screenwriting.
Dave Charest:Mhmm. How do you use those skills today?
Christine Gritmon:Well, first of all, went to school to go to school. I went to one of those liberal arts schools. I went to Vassar, and and they're not really into directing you towards a career driven major. Vassar likes to say they teach you how to think. Communications is a really, really important part of all the curriculum.
Christine Gritmon:I mean, their science majors need to learn how to write. It's really very communication driven. And so really any major I chose would have been communications driven. But, yeah, I liked film. I'll be honest with you.
Christine Gritmon:Part of why I majored in film is because I took a semester off and I wanted to graduate on time and I could get enough enough credits. But when it comes down to it, it really it channeled a lot of my preexisting inclination towards storytelling and showed me some of the ways to do it more effectively. I was just telling my children because my children are interested in getting on YouTube now because of course. And I told them one of the big things that I learned in film is that five seconds in real life is super quick. Five seconds on screen is endlessly long.
Christine Gritmon:You gotta keep it moving. There are certain elements of story that actually social media is changing. You know, the way you write a screenplay, you really get things moving about fifteen minutes in. The way you, of course, do short form video, for example, is you gotta start with a quick hook. You have a couple seconds.
Christine Gritmon:So it is interesting to see how the conventions of storytelling are changing because of different media. I've even seen movies start behaving more like social media where they really drop you in. They're like, we're not wasting time on a whole lot of exposition. We drop you in, and then maybe once you're interested, we'll pull back and do some exposition. That has changed.
Christine Gritmon:But, yeah, it really taught me a lot about storytelling. It taught me a lot about making the most. It taught me that film is a visual medium. And it's interesting now that we're seeing a lot of people are scrolling their feeds with the sound off. And you want captions on there for sure.
Christine Gritmon:But the fact is unless you get people's interest visually, they're not going to click to put their sound on. You have to get their interest enough to get them to put their sound on as they're scrolling soundlessly. And so that has remained consistent over the twenty five years since I was learning about film.
Dave Charest:So I'm wondering, was there a to call it, like, an inciting incident that pushed you to the decision to start your own thing?
Christine Gritmon:Absolutely. This is actually oh god. Is this my fifth career now? I don't know. My first career was in the corporate beauty industry in New York City, and it was fun and glamorous and cool and that I kinda burnt out on it.
Christine Gritmon:And then I was a freelance writer, graphic designer, and Photoshop humorist. Yes. I made funny Photoshops for a comedy site and got paid. Amazing. And the writing wound up being what really took off.
Christine Gritmon:I thought the graphic design would be the thing, but writing is what turned out to be a thing. I hadn't really considered myself a writer. I had just always written. And then I realized it was a skill people would pay me for. So I was freelance writer for a bit.
Christine Gritmon:Then I became a full time journalist, and I considered that a different career from freelance writing. Mhmm. Because when I was a freelancer, I'd get the assignment, I'd do what I did with and then they'd take it and they'd edit it into oblivion and whatever. But when I was a journalist, I had to really learn how to do it. Yeah.
Christine Gritmon:And that was an incredible education. I was a journalist for a not very long time, but I did really well. I got some awards actually, which was cool. But here's the really interesting part. They were just starting to figure out how to use social media.
Christine Gritmon:And it was early enough that if you were game for trying things, you could just do it. So that was a great opportunity. And I also learned about personal branding. I hadn't thought about it. I sort of stumbled into it.
Christine Gritmon:It made a lot of sense to me that if I was gonna be covering our local community, they should know who I was and how to reach me. And I should be very much in the conversations they were having and know what mattered to the communities I was covering. So I started a separate Facebook account and Instagram account and all that that were public facing. They were my professional accounts. I joined all the little local community Facebook groups that I could Yep.
Christine Gritmon:Because I said, you really know what matters to a community if you see what they talk about amongst themselves. And this just seemed so natural to me. And everyone in the newsroom looked at me like, wait. You're doing what now?
Dave Charest:Yeah.
Christine Gritmon:Can you help me figure out how to do this? And I wound up getting promoted to a position. I was a community editor for engagement and branding. So my whole job became, first of all, representing the paper at events in the community and writing about it. But then also just helping the other journalists in the newsroom connect with the people they were covering, the communities they were covering, and figuring out how to bridge that gap.
Christine Gritmon:And digital was a big part of it. It was not all of it. But here I was swimming in social media and personal branding. And eventually, outside business groups started asking me to give talks about social media. And the paper also threw some.
Christine Gritmon:And my first thought was, I don't know anything about social media. Why are they asking me? And then I realized that the things that came naturally to me
Dave Charest:Right.
Christine Gritmon:Were not coming naturally to other people. They didn't understand it. And so I did have something to offer. Plus, I was able to geek out on it and actually learn more. So I did feel like I knew something.
Christine Gritmon:And after a while of this, I said, you know what? There could be a business here. So even though I loved my job at the paper, I left. And I started my business. And it turned out there was indeed a business in it.
Christine Gritmon:People need to know how to use social media as well as other digital tools such as websites and email marketing. And I was able to teach them how to do it. And most importantly, I was able to remove the fear from it and the intimidation factor because everyone feels like everyone has this figured out but them. They say, you know, my 12 year old can do it. Why can't I?
Christine Gritmon:I feel like such a dinosaur. Or as especially in the case of personal branding, they feel like selling a thing is very different from selling yourself. And, you know, maintaining that balance of being a real human while also being the product and the business. And it's and it can be very complicated for people. So just like I started doing eight years ago, a lot of it is about removing the intimidation factor, removing the fear factor, showing them that they actually can use all of these tools very simply and effectively to tell their own story.
Dave Charest:So I wanna shift us a little bit and then talk specifically about some of the things that you've kind of done to market your business. I mean, you've you started in 2016. I mean, you've spoken at industry events. You've been guests on numerous podcasts, livestreams, panels, all the things. Right?
Dave Charest:So what did you do to build your personal brand and open up those opportunities for yourself?
Christine Gritmon:One really big thing for me has been attending conferences, especially early on. Conferences did multiple things for me. And by conferences, I mean things like inbound, social media marketing world, various others, but those have been kind of the big ones for me. So it does a few things. First of all, it gives you a very handy list of brilliant people to follow.
Christine Gritmon:You see who's speaking, see what they're an expert on. Ideally, you actually go to the session and you learn something. And so that was huge, especially early on figuring out who the industry leaders were to this industry that I was brand new to that I could follow and learn from. And in many cases, I'd get to meet them, which was great. The second thing it did, content opportunities.
Christine Gritmon:I was at this event. So first of all, I would do, like, selfies with everyone I could find and, you know, post it and tag them. And now we're connected and they know who I am. But also while I was in sessions, I would live tweet the heck out of them. So I was sharing the knowledge that I was getting from the stage, but that meant that people following me on, say, Twitter, for example, were then getting that knowledge from me.
Christine Gritmon:And I was crediting who I was getting it from. I was tagging the speaker in every single tweet, but still, I was the source for the person who was tagging along and reading along. And they would say, thank you so much for bringing me along for the ride. I got to know some of the speakers that way because the speaker said, oh my god. This was incredible.
Christine Gritmon:Thank you so much for sharing this. I always worried that they'd be like, look, that's my material. People paid for a ticket to this. Nope. Not once.
Christine Gritmon:Lots of people said this was incredible. Thank you so much. And so the content opportunity was great. In fact, at my first social media marketing world in 2017, I made a point of waiting after every session to ask the speaker a question they hadn't answered from in their presentation, but that related to what they were talking about because, of course, I had questions. And I made content out of that, and that was fantastic.
Christine Gritmon:And then the third thing events did for me, of course, was meeting people. Meeting my peers, meeting people who had been at this longer. Eventually, once I had been around a little while, meeting people who were just getting started and kinda taking them under my wing. The human connections that I made through conferences have impacted so much of my life. In fact, I've moved from New York to The United Kingdom in the past year, and that would not have happened if it weren't for the people who I met at these conferences in The United States.
Christine Gritmon:Stayed in touch with them. Eventually started going to conferences in The United Kingdom as well. Met even more people. I would not be living in The UK right now if it weren't for Social Media Marketing World twenty seventeen, honestly. So many of my connections can be traced back to the events I attended in The States early in my career.
Dave Charest:So as you get to this point where you're at now, I know you're you're kind of about to relaunch your own content strategy. So I guess my first question is why, and what's changing?
Christine Gritmon:Well, I've had a weird few years. So 2020 yes. I'm taking it all the way back to 2020. 2020 was an amazing year in business for me because there's all these people, especially small business owners, who say, I know I need to get online, but I'm scared or whatever. They have all these excuses.
Christine Gritmon:Twenty twenty was no excuse time. It was sink or swim. It was you get online or you don't have a business at the end of this. 2021 was scary terrible because now we're at a point where the world was opening back up and businesses said, okay. Do I invest in a marketing strategy or do I invest in plexiglass shields?
Christine Gritmon:Plexiglass shields are gonna win.
Dave Charest:Yeah.
Christine Gritmon:So 2021 was scary and bad. And at the end of the year, I said, okay. Time to get a job. So 2022, I had a fantastic job. 2022 was amazing because I had a full time, well paid, wonderful job that I was great at and acknowledged as great at, but I was also able to maintain and build my own brand.
Christine Gritmon:So I did speaking gigs as myself. I did podcast guesting as myself. I was still able to be me, but I was also building this thing for a brand. And it was just fantastic. Everything was aligning, and that's also when we started planning our move to The UK for 2023.
Christine Gritmon:And then in January 2023, I got laid off. And so did everyone on the planet apparently in 2023. The layoffs in 2023 were massive, which meant there were so many talented people on the same job market as I was. So about a year and a half of applying for jobs, I've been interviewed for one. One.
Christine Gritmon:It was rough out there. And the obvious answer is go back to my company and hit it hard, really build my own business. But I was thrown for a loop by the layoff. I was pulling everything together for our move across the ocean, pulling together visa requirements. I was selling our house.
Christine Gritmon:I was dealing with the emotional ramifications of all of this. I was not in a state to stand in in my power as it were. The way I describe it is Christine effing Gritman was not able to show up. And thankfully, she just recently came back. And then I got there.
Christine Gritmon:And I had some really good talks with people who have known me for a while. And they said, why would you not be doing this thing that you've built over the years? You know, you're Christine Grittman, personal branding girl. Why would you abandon that brand that you worked so hard to build? Isn't it still what you care about?
Christine Gritmon:If it's not what you care about, go ahead and change it. But don't you still care about it? I said, yeah. I do. This is exactly where my heart is, but no one's buying it.
Christine Gritmon:And they're like, well, how are you trying to sell it? They really helped me figure out the puzzle of I wasn't doing the wrong thing. I was going about it the wrong way as it were. And a lot of self sabotage
Kelsi Carter:in there too. A lot
Christine Gritmon:of self sabotage that I didn't even realize was happening until these lovely people pointed out. They're like, the way forward can be clearer than you're making it. Yeah. And that really helped. And it really reached a climax at AtomicCon, which is a conference that some good friends of mine run, and I've been part of every single one.
Christine Gritmon:It's bigger every year. And that's where I met you. And that really was the moment where, as I say, Christine effing Gritman showed up again. Suddenly, she was there, and I felt it. And I said, oh, this it feels different to show up as this person.
Christine Gritmon:This is nice. And she's me. It's not like a fake person. I sound like a it's me. But I hadn't been able to draw up that energy in a really long time, and it felt amazing.
Christine Gritmon:My own podcast, Let's Talk About Brand, had been on sort of semi unplanned hiatus for a little while. I'm bringing it back, and it's gonna be different, and it's gonna be so much more aligned with what I'm trying to do moving forward because it started as I wanna have conversations with smart people. And now it's so much more than that. It's really staying on topic. It's really building my brand.
Christine Gritmon:I'm gonna do a lot more writing. I've stopped writing for no apparent reason, so I'm gonna start writing again. And I'm I'm gonna get back on stages. I had gotten to a point in my growth with my business where I got a little snotty. I started saying, I'm doing all this speaking.
Christine Gritmon:I'm doing all these things, and no one's paying me for it. And there are people out there who are getting paid for it. There are people out there with, you know, brand content deals and stuff like that. They're getting paid for it. Why am I hitting this ceiling of I'll get the visibility opportunities, but no one's paying me for anything.
Christine Gritmon:And so I decided to be all sour grapes and say, you know what? I'm not doing any of this free stuff anymore. And now I've realized, no. Some of it, first of all, has a long rebound. It's like a very far thrown boomerang.
Christine Gritmon:A lot of it is coming back. I'm getting business now from free things I did in 2020 and 2022. It is coming back to me, and I'm like, oh, that thing I thought that I didn't get anything out of, I actually just got a few grand out of. Okay. So first of all, I'm realizing that the lead is long.
Christine Gritmon:Second of all, there's relationship building. There are people who I've met through some of those free things who have enhanced my life and my career and have referred business to me and all of that. And then there's the fact that I like it. I like helping people. I would love to get paid to help people as well, and that's coming.
Christine Gritmon:And it does come. It's about having the faith that I understand, you know, knowing your worth and not working for free, but I also understand that there can be some stuff that's fulfilling in other ways. And also, again, it does wind up in making money in other ways. So I'm getting very much back into more paid speaking than I did before for sure, but also just giving back to my digital community in bigger ways. It feels really nice to be back in that place of being someone to watch, And I feel like I'm able to bring a lot more value to that arrangement than I was before simply because I'm clear on what I'm trying to do with it, and I'm clearer on how I can be of value.
Dave Charest:So as you're ramping up to this and you're you're kind of for lack of a better term, but in many ways, like, relaunching yourself, right, into this world. Right? Like so what does success look like to you then, and how are you measuring that moving forward?
Christine Gritmon:It looks like a lack of struggle. I want to be in a position where we can do the things we want to do. And if I am feeling worry around that, that doesn't feel like success. But at the same time, success isn't just financial. If I feel like I'm working too much, that doesn't feel like success either.
Christine Gritmon:If I feel like I'm taking on work that I don't want, that doesn't feel like success either. Success feels like ease. Success feels like alignment. And success feels like not coming from a scarcity of mentality of being worried about chasing the next thing at all times. Success to me feels like I can do my thing and things will come to me without me having to worry if they're gonna dry up.
Christine Gritmon:And one of the things is that I'm realizing I wanna become someone who's very referable. I think that would be a really nice position to be in where instead of having to find people and chase people down, my reputation precedes me. That would be really lovely. And that would be the culmination of all that I I preach with the personal branding, really, which is that if you put it out there, the right people will find it. You still have to be strategic about it, and I haven't been.
Christine Gritmon:And that's why I got so discouraged.
Dave Charest:Well, when you think about what you have been doing and just, like, the marketing piece of it, what do you find is the most challenging thing about marketing?
Christine Gritmon:I have become just too much personal, not enough branding by far because I've been trying to, you know, get my footing again. And so I am going to have more of a content strategy while still being very personal. I think it's important that I'm still very personal personal and personable. It's how people find me and how people connect with me, but I could also be bringing more value. I don't do content.
Christine Gritmon:I put stuff up. I'm not creating content that brings value. And I'm trying to figure out where that balance is gonna be. But I'm reminding myself of what I remind clients, which is that don't overthink it. I'm thinking about this stuff already.
Christine Gritmon:I'm already geeking out on branding related stuff. I already am giving thought to social media. All I need to do is share those thoughts I'm already having. So that's gonna be a really big part of the content strategy showing you don't have to set aside time and rent a studio and, you know, hire a designer and do all these things. You can just share the things you're thinking about already because they will be of value to people.
Christine Gritmon:In addition to that, I'm getting my emails going again. So email, of course, is an interest that we share.
Dave Charest:Sure.
Christine Gritmon:I've done so many different things over the years with it. For a little while, I tried to make it more of a newsletter, and I just did not have it in me to maintain that. That's a lot of work. People who have newsletters often hire people to help them pull that together, and I wasn't doing that. And then I got really inconsistent with it and dropped off.
Christine Gritmon:And then I said, you know what? I'm gonna make it all about the podcast. I'm gonna really make it focused. I always have my little note from me at the beginning with whatever's on my mind. But then I'm gonna say, here's this week's podcast.
Christine Gritmon:Here's a little thing on last week's if you missed it. And if I'm speaking or attending something, I'll put a little thing about that. And then maybe occasionally, I'll put a thing about working with me, but I have been bad at that. My new plan. And then I fell off of that because the podcast went on hiatus, and I dropped contact with all those people.
Christine Gritmon:I could have been communicating with all of those people still and even communicated what was going on. Like, hey. I'm on a hiatus with the podcast because I'm doing some, you know, rebranding. But coming back now, what I'm doing now, I'm really excited about. What I'm doing now is I still have a personal note.
Christine Gritmon:That will always be a thing. I always want it to feel like it's coming from me, and I've been told that people feel that. People feel like I'm writing right to them. So little something for me on what's on my mind. Of course, stuff about that week's podcast.
Christine Gritmon:But I'm also starting to be more on top of while I'm looking at articles about branding, while I'm seeing someone online who's really killing it, and I'm like, that's a really interesting thing to do. Trying to save those things and pop them in those emails so that it's not just me, me, me. It's also here's cool stuff that's going on. And I'm sharing my thoughts about that cool stuff as well. It's not just here's a link to something.
Christine Gritmon:It's here's why I found this interesting and worth sharing. So they still get some of my insights. I'm doing what I tell clients to do, which is it's fine to be a curator of content. Not everything has to come from your own brain. Absolutely.
Christine Gritmon:Curate content because this stuff they're not finding on their own because they're not steeped in it like you are. But share your own insights. Bring your own insights and intelligence and experience in this arena to that. So and then, of course, I'm also shouting other people out. I have a lot of friends in my industry who are doing great things.
Christine Gritmon:And I admittedly don't consume as much of my friends' content as I should generally because, again, we're swimming in it. Everyone has a show. Everyone has an email newsletter. Everyone has this stuff. But I am trying to actually say, you know what?
Christine Gritmon:Someone I know did something that my audience could get value from, and I'm supporting a friend who I also think is brilliant. Why not? It's staying personal. It's still from me. You're still getting my thoughts.
Christine Gritmon:You still feel a personal connection with me because I think that's the value of email, really. But you're also getting a smattering of the things that I'm finding interesting and why. So I'm also being that source of information that doesn't necessarily have to come solely for me. So it's not all about me. And, of course, if I have a program to launch or if I'm speaking somewhere or if I'm doing something, it goes in there.
Christine Gritmon:This podcast is certainly in there. I'm emailing people about this. And hopefully, people will click over and listen to our conversation.
Dave Charest:Yeah. So I wanna talk let's shift a little bit to some of that point of view. Right? Some of the things that that you're interested in and the things that you've been sharing just from a personal branding perspective. So I guess the first question I have for you is, how do you define personal branding, and why is it important to small business owners?
Christine Gritmon:The way I used to define personal branding, and it's still valid, is the version of you that lives in other people's heads. And you want there to be a version of you living in the right heads, and you want some say in what that version of you is like. But now I really feel it's more who are you and why should I care? And why should I care sounds so snotty. It sounds confrontational, but it's really about what do you bring to what you do that nobody else does?
Christine Gritmon:Because someone else does what you do. No matter what you do, someone else does it. Someone else does it really well. So the thing that really makes the difference is that people feel a connection to you. All things being equal, people will choose to do business with and refer business to people who they know, like, and trust.
Christine Gritmon:And that goes a really, really long way. Someone else might have better reviews than you do. Someone else might have lower prices than you do or higher prices. And people will still choose to work with you because they like your vibe. And I think that matters a lot.
Christine Gritmon:And too many people kinda hide their vibe because they want to seem professional. And to them, that means like everyone else. They wanna conform to the standards of their industry. They want to conform to what they think are the expectations of someone looking to hire them. When in actuality, the things we feel like we need to hide in order to fit in are the things that we need to celebrate in order to resonate with the right people.
Christine Gritmon:But one thing I really point out to people is that their past experience is not something to hide. They shouldn't pretend like they just emerged into this industry that they're emerging into. Your past experience has a value. It impacts your whole perspective. It impacts where you're coming from.
Christine Gritmon:It brings skills that other people may not bring to what you do. And that brings me to another thing that I really try to emphasize to people. There's your skills and then there's the tasks you have applied them to. Your skills are your own. Your skills are transferable.
Christine Gritmon:Your skills apply to numerous things, and those are yours. The tasks are what other people have allowed you to do, and people get very hung up on their tasks. I mean, you even see on LinkedIn people's headlines are their position, but that's not what you do. Your position is listed on the resume part. Your position is listed in experience.
Christine Gritmon:Your headline should be about what you do, what you bring to things. And that is really more skills based, and that's a lot more what people really need from you, quite frankly. And so I really try to emphasize to people that their personal brand is about who they are and what they bring to the table that is unique rather than conforming to just kind of being part of the faceless sea of whatever their job title is.
Dave Charest:Yeah. Well, so maybe you can walk me through this process a little bit as you start to think about it. Maybe you're working with someone and you're examining their personal brand. Like, what are kind of the areas that you kinda go through? I think you have, like, four different kind of things that you bring people through.
Dave Charest:Talk us through each of those.
Christine Gritmon:I explain my work as actually being a little bit like a therapist at first insofar as I don't tell people here's what your personal brand should be. I ask them to ask themselves the questions that will help lead them to what the answers are because I don't have the answers. They have the answers inside them. They just need to kinda let them out, free them, and allow them to be the answers instead of saying, no. That can't be right.
Christine Gritmon:And so I asked some questions that a lot of them haven't asked themselves, and some of them sound pretty standard until you realize, oh, but have I given thought to that? So some of it is about their motivations, their internal motivations. Why are you doing this? Why is this what you do? And if the answer is because it was a job and it was available and I needed a job, that's not a good answer.
Christine Gritmon:And I have worked with people before where that was the answer. None of them are employed in those fields anymore because they realized when they asked the question, they didn't have a good answer that resonated. So making sure you have that good answer that resonates. If you're on the wrong field, that that'll tell you something. But if you're on the right path, that can help reignite that flame and remind you why you're doing what you do.
Christine Gritmon:Why do you do what you do?
Dave Charest:Why do I do what I do? You're asking me.
Christine Gritmon:Yeah. What do you get out of it, like, besides a paycheck?
Dave Charest:Yeah. So one, it's an opportunity to I get to use the skills that I have. Right? I am able to do skills talking to people. I come from a theater background.
Dave Charest:I'm able to speak on stages. I'm able to have
Christine Gritmon:So many of us come from theater. I love it.
Dave Charest:It's one of the biggest, like, communication. Right? I get to be performative in many ways. Right? But I think, ultimately, I had my own business for a while and realized I was really bad at the business part, really good at the marketing pieces that I loved.
Dave Charest:Right. But really bad at the business part. Right. And so this was an opportunity for me to be able to take those skills, reach a wider audience of business owners that were really good at the business pieces and the things that they did, but bad at the marketing. Right.
Dave Charest:And so for me, I get excited about that every day. I get to talk to amazing business owners that have been successful, have taken that chance to do things a lot of people don't do, and learn from them, but also help others make sense of all of this stuff and understand that, like, look, you know, it's actually not as complicated as everybody makes it out to be or it seems as though it is because you're comparing yourself to something. It's actually more about honing in on those relationships and, again, just communicating with people in a way that they're not being communicated with in other areas. Right? And so for me, it's exciting to I say all the time, like, I love what I do, and I'm excited to do it every day.
Dave Charest:Like, it's like, okay. Cool. Who am I talking to today? Like, this is great. Like, how is this impacting the work that we're doing too?
Dave Charest:It's that too to be able to show and help other parts of our business, right, move in a way that is gonna help us serve the people that the small business owners that we cater to in better ways. And so that gets me jazzed up about it, and I love that. Hey. And shit. This is the life we've created doing this.
Dave Charest:Right? And so that's what gets me excited about it.
Christine Gritmon:Ah, I love that. And that's so much like my answer too, quite frankly. You'll appreciate this because it sounds like you also really love hearing and sharing people's stories. Yeah. I have quote marks behind my ears.
Dave Charest:Okay. Yeah.
Christine Gritmon:Because I I love hearing people's stories.
Dave Charest:Amazing.
Christine Gritmon:I don't know if you can see that, but that's from from when I was journalist. Alright. So I think that that's really important for people to connect with and understand because it also helps provide those guidelines when people are trying to figure out not only which way they're going and guiding their career, but also the way in which they communicate. It's that kind of touchstone of is this what I'm really communicating with what I'm saying? And so that's so important to do.
Christine Gritmon:So I work with them a lot on that and on figuring that out because that's really your message. That's really the core of your your values. And no matter what you do with your personal brand, if you go work somewhere else, if you go into another industry, you bring that with you and just apply it to different tasks. So I think the internal motivation is really key. There's also the external motivation of the person who you're trying to connect with.
Christine Gritmon:So many people wanna start with that, by the way. So much traditional marketing advice is speak their language. Where are they? What are they caring about? Start with them.
Christine Gritmon:I still think you gotta start with you, quite frankly, because otherwise, you're just kinda trying to imitate them in a sense. However, it is important to understand them. What are they actually looking for? When someone is looking for example, let's say someone is looking for an email marketing platform. What are they actually looking for?
Christine Gritmon:What are they actually looking for? They're not looking for products and features. What are they actually trying to get out of that? And I I'd love your take on that too. What is someone actually looking to do when they decide that they're gonna do some email marketing?
Dave Charest:Yeah. I think they're looking for a way to grow their business in many ways. Right? So they're looking for a solution that allows them to get the word out about the things that they're doing to people that care about it. And Yeah.
Dave Charest:I think that's you know, at the end of the day, that's what email marketing is all about. Right? It's actually allowing people to raise their hands and say, yes. I wanna hear from your business. And I think particularly the people that we work with.
Dave Charest:Right? Again, small business owners by trade, marketers by necessity. Yeah. They're looking for something that they don't need to hire a team of people to then wait months to figure out. Right?
Dave Charest:And so make that easy enough so that, you know what? I may not be a marketer, but look at me now. I'm being a marketer. So, yeah, that to me is what they're looking for, the support to help them grow so they can get back to doing the things that they would rather be doing.
Christine Gritmon:I love that. Yeah. Because, I mean, something like Constant Contact, it's a tool, but that's a hammer. What you need is never a hammer. What you need is some place to sit.
Christine Gritmon:Okay. So I need a chair. Alright. So what do I need for a chair? I need wood.
Christine Gritmon:I need nails. I need a hammer. So it's really important to understand that what they actually need is a place to sit, not a hammer. But why do they need your hammer? So I think that you actually expressed that really, really beautifully.
Christine Gritmon:What they need is to get the word out, and they need it to not be overwhelming and something they can't handle themselves because that's not where they're at. And so I think that that's a really good point, but it's important to understand what the people you're speaking to are really looking for because it is never the hammer. And so I I encourage people to really look at that. What the people who work with me are looking for is kind of permission. Permission to shine.
Christine Gritmon:And I think it's really important to understand that. Okay. And then the third part of what I look at, again, has to do with the client in a way, but it also has to do with you, which is what are you actually delivering? To that end, I mean, technically, on the surface of and it's important to define this too because you need to make sure you know how to express it to them. On the surface of it, what am I delivering?
Christine Gritmon:I'm delivering, you know, conversations about your personal brand so we can work through it, then a strategy, a clear strategy that we put into actual words. I'm delivering specific ideas about here's the content you can create in post. I'm delivering insights about what is and isn't working. I mean, on the face of it, that's what I'm delivering. What I'm actually delivering is confidence in their own competence.
Christine Gritmon:I'm delivering confidence that they do, in fact, have everything they need to tell their own story because so many of them don't believe that. So I think it's really important to understand what you're actually delivering because it's important to know how to phrase the product, but it's also important to understand what the feeling you're delivering is because you're always delivering the feeling. And I don't know if you wanna try for that one too. We're on a roll here.
Dave Charest:Yeah. I mean, so
Christine Gritmon:you actually deliver.
Dave Charest:So I think what we deliver for small businesses is our mission is really to help the small stand tall, and so we offer support. Right? And I think support in here are the tools that are easy to use that you can do and and use to grow your business. But, also, you can actually pick up the phone and talk to a person if you need to. And I think one of the things that our founders recognized early on is that small business owners are often on an island doing things themselves, and they don't always have the time to watch the video or do a search for something.
Dave Charest:And to be able to pick up the phone and say, like, hey. I'm trying to do this because I gotta get this out the door. I'm not too sure what to do, and there's someone on the other line that's not judging you and that is there to guide you through it and help you do that. That's, like, an important thing. And then so I think we try to live in that through not only the tools and the support that you can pick up, but everything that we create to help people get the resources they need to take those next steps wherever they are in their journey is how I look at it.
Christine Gritmon:I love that. They're not alone. That's the feeling you deliver. They're not alone. Oh, that's beautiful.
Christine Gritmon:And then the fourth thing that I really get into with people is kinda like I said before, what about who they are as a person do they bring to what they do? Because, again, it's a personal connection. And a lot of times it's something that has nothing to do with their work that they could bring in. Like you mentioned before that you come from theater.
Dave Charest:Yeah.
Christine Gritmon:People might think, well, theater is very different. I know a lot of people who come at this from theater actually. And they may think that has nothing to do with this, but it does because it's about storytelling. It's about communication. You generally don't do theater as an island.
Christine Gritmon:It's generally a collaborative process of working with others and bringing out the best in your castmates, not just yourself. It's an ensemble activity, generally speaking. And so that is something that you bring to it. And so a lot of people have things like that where they feel like something from their background is something they almost wanna hide or deemphasize because it has nothing to do with what they're doing now, but it really, really does. And so I really feel like the fourth part I get into with people is what things about themselves can they or might they want to bring into their brand?
Christine Gritmon:And I work on this with myself as well. There's this concept in marketing of the content pillars. Here's the five things that you tend to talk about, and it should be unbalanced. It should be like the biggest pillar maybe would be personal branding. I was talking with someone the other day, and she had a really huge viral post that had to do with dogs.
Christine Gritmon:That's not what she does for a living, but I pointed out she can wrap that in. She could have her dog make a guest appearance on Mondays saying something about content strategy or not saying something about content strategy. The fact that something has nothing to do with what you do for a living, if it has to do with who you are as a living person, it's in. You know? So I work with people on what they'd feel comfortable with, and it's not about capitalizing on it.
Christine Gritmon:You know? The fact that I'm a mom doesn't mean I'm capitalizing on the fact that I have children. You know? It's just
Dave Charest:How
Christine Gritmon:dare you? A matter of if these things are in your life anyway, you don't have to hide them and and giving them that permission. And it also makes content less hard. It makes content less hard because they can just share life. They can just share what they're doing, and it's less scary.
Dave Charest:So here's my question for you because there is a fear here in many instances for people. So what would you say to people who may be afraid to put themselves out there and build their personal brand?
Christine Gritmon:It's a lot like being a new kid at school in a sense. You're afraid you're gonna be judged. You're actually assuming that you'll be judged negatively. But how is anyone supposed to get to know you if you just kinda eat your sandwich in the bathroom? You need to kinda figure out you need to observe.
Christine Gritmon:You need to be in the lunchroom looking around to figure out the vibe of the people. People are gonna be looking at you and making judgments based on the vibe that you're putting out there. If you're in, like, let's go back to the nineties in my head. If you're wearing, like, the big baggy pants and, like, a chain wallet, maybe you're not gonna sit with the cheerleaders. I mean, maybe you are.
Christine Gritmon:Who knows? But you're putting a vibe out there, and you're looking at what everyone else's vibes are. And let's say you see that table full of people with the big baggy pants and the chain wallets, you might feel a little more comfortable approaching them and being like, hey. Could I sit here? Similarly, like, I was telling my son so my son is a new kid at a school.
Christine Gritmon:And I was telling him, you gotta go to art club and drama club because the people because he feels so different from everyone at his school. And you don't even have those external markers because they're all in uniforms. So he feels so different from everyone at his school. And I'm like, you gotta go to art club and drama club because people who are interested in art and in drama are self identifying by going to art club or drama club. Like, that's how you find your people.
Christine Gritmon:So it's it's just a matter of, like, you can't expect that people will find you or connect with you if you don't give them anything to connect with. You have to put those signals out there. And no matter what they are, it'll land with somebody.
Dave Charest:Well, friend, let's recap some items from that discussion. Number one, own your story and your magic. Christine emphasized that people connect with people, not job titles. Your past experiences, skills, and even quirks all shape how you show up. Don't downplay them.
Dave Charest:Highlight them. Whether it's your love for theater or your knack for storytelling, it's part of what makes your brand memorable. Number two, don't wait to be perfect. Just start. Christine reminds us that content doesn't have to be polished or planned months in advance.
Dave Charest:Share what you are already thinking about, talk about what you're learning, and connect through your everyday experiences. Value comes from honesty, not production value. And number three, email is still your strongest owned asset. Despite being a content pro, Christine admitted to letting her email list sit dormant during a hiatus. Now she's doubling down on consistent personal updates.
Dave Charest:Whether you're sharing insights, curating links, or launching a podcast, email lets you stay connected on your terms. So here's your action item for today. Open up your Constant Contact account, and if you haven't already, set up your brand kit. This way, you'll have a consistent visual identity within your Constant Contact templates. Then draft a short email to your audience sharing something personal that ties back to your expertise.
Dave Charest:It doesn't have to be perfect, just honest. Then schedule it. You'll be surprised at the connection it creates. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Be a Marketer podcast. Please take a moment to leave us a review.
Dave Charest:Just go to ratethispodcast.com/bam. Your honest feedback will help other small business marketers like yourself find the show. That's ratethispodcast.com/bam. Well, friend, I hope you enjoy the rest of your day and continued success to you and your business.