Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Blueprint for Excellence: The Indovance Leadership Series brings out leadership success stories for the benefit of fellow leaders, to-be leaders, entrepreneurs, and the industry in general. Success isn’t an accident; it’s a purposeful dedication of time and effort towards a goal. Let’s listen, relate to, and learn what that looks like when put into practice.
Ann Fritz: The way to move ahead or get
promoted is to think about what could you
do that would make your boss's job easier.
Eddie Munoz: That's kind
of the goal as a leader.
You wanna be able to make sure that, uh,
everything that you know, you're being
able, able to pass it down, pass it on
to the generations that come after you.
Ann Fritz: And so as we started to grow,
what I tried to do was hire people that
were smarter than me, with more experience
than me, that were more seasoned than me.
I did not care.
Eddie Munoz: If you're in that
position and you're, you wanna be
a leader, take control, make the
decisions, and, and live with them.
Ann Fritz: I definitely think
the challenge is the people,
but it's also the best part.
It's what I love the most
about our firm and our jobs.
You've gotta learn to work with people.
We're in a customer service industry.
We're getting paid at the
end of the day to do a job.
Sandesh Joshi: Hello, and welcome
to Blueprint for Excellence,
the Indovance leadership series.
I'm your host, Sandesh
Joshi, CEO of Indovance Inc.,
an engineering outsourcing
services company.
For more than 20 years, I've had
the opportunity and the privilege
to work with and learn from a lot of
engineering and architectural leaders.
I've created this podcast series
to bring out the leadership success
stories for the benefit of fellow
leaders, to-be leaders, entrepreneurs,
and the industry in general.
Success isn't an accident.
It's a purposeful dedication of
time and effort towards a goal.
Let's listen, relate to, and learn what
that looks like when put into practice.
Today, my guests are Anne Fritz, managing
principal at ESG, and Eddie Munoz,
survey director of land development at
Southeastern Surveying and Mapping Corp.
Welcome to the program.
Ann Fritz: Thanks for having us.
Eddie Munoz: Thank you so much.
Excited to be here.
Sandesh Joshi: With that, uh, if I may
ask Anne, if I may start with you, if
you could walk me through your career
journey so far and, and introduce,
uh, yourself to, uh, the visitors.
Ann Fritz: Sure.
Uh, my name is Anne
Fritz, as you mentioned.
I am a managing principal, but
also, uh, an interior designer
by trade, by discipline, for
ESG Architecture and Design.
I've been here for almost 22 years.
I started as the intern, and, uh,
within six months kind of worked
my way into, uh, getting on jobs
just because there was a need and
I was willing to help and pitch in.
And before I knew it, um, I had
kind of that int- interior design
title, and then worked my way up.
Thanks- thanks to the recession in a way.
Sometimes those bad
things, um, open doors.
Uh, that was a really
hard time for our firm.
We went from about 97 people down to 21,
and I was the only interior designer left.
Um, and luckily, I was working on
some university work, so the public
work sector was a little bit more s-
uh, secure than the private sector.
A lot of our clients are developers.
Um, and out of that recession then,
as we started to grow again, I was
the one left standing, so I got
to help create and build our new
team, which now has 35 interior
designers in our firm of 120 people.
So, um, I, you know, I don't know
if they kept me around because of my
personality or just b- because I, what
I was working on, but it, it did work
out in my advantage, you know, uh,
despite how hard the recession was.
Um, that's one of the things that I
think is interesting about our industry.
It's very cyclical, and
it depends on the economy.
Um, but we've been able to ride the
waves and now work across the country
for developers in about 20 states.
We're licensed in 40.
I travel all the time.
We're based out of Minneapolis.
Um, but I do a lot of work, uh,
across the country, especially in the
hospitality industry, multifamily and
office design, and then manage the team
of designers, and then as a managing
principal, also help manage the firm as
a whole, um, as one of the owners here
Sandesh Joshi: Great.
Great.
That sounds like a fantastic journey,
fantastic growth journey, I would say,
for you personally as well as the company.
And, um, I think one thing that, uh,
kind of caught my attention, you said
something about you put a positive
spin to, to the recession, and that's I
see often people who persevere or, you
know, leaders who succeed is, uh, who
essentially stand the test of, uh, time.
So good for you and, uh, good for, I
guess, uh, people who wait, especially
through tough times, uh, see greater,
greater opportunities eventually.
So congratulations.
Ann Fritz: Thank you.
Sandesh Joshi: M-moving on, Eddie,
if you could introduce yourself
and help us with your background.
Eddie Munoz: Sure.
Um, my name is Eddie Munoz.
I'm currently the, uh, director of
land development for Southeastern,
Southeastern Survey and Mapping,
um, in our Orlando office.
Um, I also serve as the, uh, vice
president for the, uh, the Central
Florida division in our company.
Um, I've been surveying for about
fifteen years, and kinda similar to
Anne, my surveying journey started
right at the tail end of the recession.
Um, I-- This is when I first fell into
the surveying industry, if you will.
I, I recently graduated with a, uh,
AS degree in drafting design, so
I wanted to find an- find a, uh, a
career path to be able to use that,
that new, recently, uh, earned degree.
So I answered an interview for, uh,
um, a surveyor who was kept trying
to rebound right after the recession.
So I had no idea what surveying
was, but I kinda got sold on being
outside and being inside doing, you
know, the outside part of it and
doing the inside part of it as well.
Uh, so I joined on with him at a, you
know, at the entry-level, the very, um,
entry-level position in the industry,
which would, would be a rodman.
Um, so from there, I started en-
really enjoying, uh, the, the
industry, enjoying the tasks.
I learned, um, everything field-related,
learned office-related, how to
go collect data, process said
data, turn it into a end, end
deliverable, um, to suit our clients.
Um, so, you know, fast-forward, I'm in
there learning the, the industry, learning
all the skills and the, the knowledge I
need and just kind of continually growing
up the, uh, the career ladder, you know,
promoting, uh, rising through the ranks.
Um, I quickly outgrew the, the small
company that we were at, so I needed
some-something a little bit, um, bigger
with, uh, more opportunities to grow.
So, uh, I ended up coming to
Southeastern Surveying in, in 2017,
so I've been here for nine years.
Uh, in that time, I came in into
this position as a survey technician,
uh, continued my education, and
I, uh, eventually earned my,
uh, license in 2020 to become a
professional surveyor and mapper.
Um, and in that time period, there
was a Kind of a big transition.
A lot of the surveyors that were
in the company, especially in,
in the office that I work out of,
were, were retiring and moving on.
So it led to a, a pretty early,
uh, route for me to, to go
into a leadership position.
Um, I was kind of thrust
into, into leadership because
of the transitions going on.
But while I was, you know, trying to
still figure out and, and learn myself
what my leadership style was, but, um,
kind of being thrust in it and, you know,
putting, getting your feet to the fire,
you really start to learn a lot about,
you know, what it takes to gain the
trust of your employees, gain the trust
of your team, help promote your team,
and help kinda guide and be a mentor.
So, uh, in that time period, you know,
I grew from being a project manager
up to being a director eventually,
uh, in my vice president role.
And, um, you know, I have a
seat on the board of directors
here at the company as well.
So, uh, it was a pretty, pretty
successful, pretty, pretty driven timeline
for me to reach, uh, the leadership
positions, uh, that I'm holding right now.
But, uh, a lot of hard work and went
behind all that and being able to,
you know, adapt, uh, quickly with
the way that, that things changed.
Um, I do spend a lot of time now
in the mentorship position trying
to, to train others, um, just to
spread the knowledge and, you know,
experience and help, you know, train my
replacement because, you know, that's,
that's kind of the goal as a leader.
You wanna be able to make sure that,
uh, everything that you know, you're
being able to pass it down, pass it on
to the generations that come after you.
So that's one of the big
things I'm working on now.
But I'm happy to be in this position
And, uh, keep, keep being successful.
Sandesh Joshi: Great.
Um, that's a fantastic, uh, journey.
I mean, congratulations, uh, again over,
over last fifteen years of your growth
journey, and I think you touched on some
leadership concepts, especially you talked
about, uh, making yourself replaceable.
You know, developing others is
part of b- being a good leader.
And I'm wondering if I can
continue on that topic.
Um, as you grew up the leadership
ladder, so to say, f- from an
individual contributor, Eddie, to
a, you know, manager or team leader
or some sort of leadership position,
I'm wondering, how do you look back?
What were your challenges, opportunities?
Um, you know, uh, how was that journey?
Eddie Munoz: Well, uh, it was a
little rocky at first, you know, um,
especially being kinda thrust into there.
There was, uh, a handful of
licensed surveyors that left almost
at the, in the same timeframe.
So, uh, having to kinda jump into some
of their roles, and while I'm still
trying to grow myself professionally,
you know, I don't have all the answers.
So, um, it took, it took quite a bit
of determination, uh, hard work just
to be able to dive in, um, and keep,
keep the ship running, you know.
Um, while there's some transition going
on internally i- in businesses, you know,
your external, your clients don't, don't
really understand that, and they still
demand the same kind of quality, the
same, uh, the same response, the same
care that, that they've been accustomed
to from the, the previous generation.
So while there wasn't really a good, uh,
handing over of the torch, if you will,
it was more like, "Okay, we're gone.
Go ahead and, and you take it from here,"
um, that's one thing that I really try
to make sure that I don't let happen
when it's my turn and when my successors
come in, you know, just to make sure that
they're groomed, they're well-trained,
uh, they understand everything that,
you know, me, I've had to go through
personally and some of those challenges
that I've had to face, uh, to make sure
that it's nice and easy, the transition's
good, and, and nothing kinda skips a beat.
Sandesh Joshi: So, um, it sounds
like, I mean, you were essentially,
mm, thrown into a, a problem.
You, you kind of, you
had to step up suddenly.
Yes, and suddenly a lot of things,
a lot of moving parts, a lot of new
projects and, and probably lesser
number of team to manage more number
of projects, uh, things like that.
Um, so in the short term, I guess
you had to do what you had to
do, you know, just do, you know,
firefighting, whatever it takes.
But I'm wondering, how did
you come out of it long term?
How did, how did, I guess you
evolve to a e- elevate yourself
and the team to a better position?
Eddie Munoz: Yeah.
Um, well, a lot of it was, was
through trial and error, honestly.
The, at the very beginning, you
know, just trying to make sure that
the, the demands of the clients are
met, uh, make sure that, um, all the
resources are allocated as needed.
And, uh, if you're … It's, it's such
a interesting perspective if you're,
if you're thrown into something when
you, you're really not quite ready
or you don't think that you're ready.
You know, a lot of imposter
syndrome starts to set in.
You're like, "Man, am I the right person
for this job? What am I doing?" You know?
Um, but the more that you go through that
experience, the more that you gain the
knowledge, um, and the more that you kind
of get comfortable with the processes
and, and take the ownership, right?
You take the ownership of, "You know what?
This has to be done.
I'm here in this position.
I have to do it no matter what, so
let's, let's figure out a way to, to
get it done and make sure that we're
still, um, s- staying true to our
core, staying true to our values."
Um, and it, it really
proved very, very good.
In those next few years, I'd, I,
I was able to make sure that I
kept, you know, all the client
relationships in, in a good position.
I was able to help grow, um, our clientele
base and, and we have seen significant
growth, um, since the 2018, 2019 years.
Um, and I think it was just a better
approach to, to leadership as far as,
uh, client outreach, client relationships
while focusing on the internal and
bringing up or putting a better focus on,
on the training and the mentoring and the
leadership internally to make sure that
we're all here on the, on the same team.
We have one c- uh, common goal that we're
all striving to, to reach, and what's
the best way for us to do this as a team?
Sandesh Joshi: Excellent.
And I think y- you talked about
a lot of things, but I think one
thing, um, kind of, um, stuck in
my mind is the taking ownership.
The, that's the key.
You, you, at some point, you have to
decide, you know, I, I, I have to do it.
Uh, uh, uh, somebody has to own
it, and I am, and that's what,
uh, creates a, a leader often.
Um, and I'm wondering, Anne, I mean,
how do you relate to his story?
What's your story about, uh, you
know, stepping up from an individual
contributor to a leadership role?
Ann Fritz: Yeah, I, I actually feel
like there's a lot of similarities.
When, when, uh, the recession happened
and w- I was the last man standing,
uh, you really, as you start to grow,
you do feel like you're kind of faking
it till you make it, that saying.
Um, but it turns out just by
doing it, you're figuring it
out, and you're building trust.
And clients don't know that,
you know, I was a team of one.
And, and so as we started to grow, what
I tried to do was hire people that were
smarter than me, with more experience
than me, that were more seasoned than me.
I did not care that They had
more years of experience.
I wanted the work to get done well, and
I didn't have time to train them as much.
So I, I went for more senior
people to hire right away.
I had the people skills, luckily,
and, you know, understood the kind of
history and culture of our firm, um,
and then could help shape that culture.
So I, I think when you're building
your team, I always say I look
for the DNA or the spirit of the
person, and the rest we can teach.
I care about that more than their resume.
Um, that's why we maintain the
kind of culture that we have, and
that's really important to me.
That's built on trust, people
that are hardworking, people that
wanna dig in and get it done.
Um, I- that, that's a big deal, and
I think because I was the one in
the position of hiring people, I
quickly switched to a leadership role.
I definitely think one of the big
challenges is that when I was so used to
doing all of the work myself, now I was
delegating more of the work or overseeing
it, and it's hard to not get in there and
just fix it and do it yourself when you're
in that transition stage and that you're,
um… And now, now I lead more globally.
You know, I have multiple people
that are reporting to me or that
I'm working alongside or with.
Um, I'm influencing the work versus
doing it all myself, um, and that, that
transition takes some time, and you
kinda have to be patient with yourself.
Um, but I, I feel like the team
we've created now, we've built all
these new processes and ways of
doing things and best practices, um,
and that, that comes from mistakes.
You know, you make mistakes, and
then you do it better the next time.
Uh, and so I feel like w- now we're
kind of a well-oiled machine, and, um,
we know what kind of people we want
to attract, and it's, it's an honor to
lead this group and, and be a part of
something that I believe in so strongly.
Sandesh Joshi: Wonderful.
I think, um, you know, you
talked about, um, will versus
skill, how I like to think about.
And will, of course, is often
more important than the skill.
You can teach somebody a
skill, but not really the will.
And also, m- uh, I love the way you
put it, fake it until you make it.
Um, and another version of that I've
seen is you kind of… Often as leaders,
we have to build the bridge as we
walk on it because it's not clear.
We have the vision where we are heading,
but not necessarily, uh, the path to it,
at least not all the way, uh, to where we
head- head- we are- where we are heading.
I'm wondering, um, the initial
leadership growth journey, and I'm
wondering, you know, as you s- um,
describe your, um, struggle, uh, like
most of us go through, uh, and now
you have learned a lot and kind of
ha- um, expanded your team globally.
Um, so what kind of leadership challenges
are you dealing with now or, you know, how
do you see yourself differently in terms
of, um, challenges you're tackling today?
Ann Fritz: Uh, I think it's interesting
when you go to school, like both of
us went to design or drafting school.
I never thought that I would
be doing so much with personnel
and people and personalities.
Um, as a manager, you're managing
people, and I happen to have 35, I
think almost all entirely females.
And so- … everyone loves each other.
We get along well, but there's--
We have this trust and rapport
where they feel like they can come
to me with concerns or complaints.
So sometimes I feel like I'm
a therapist more than a boss.
Um, and the just understanding how to
navigate those personalities and put teams
together and pair people's strengths in a
way that complement a team versus I always
say if I have two very design-oriented
creatives on a project, they're just like
spinning tops and nothing gets drawn.
Like, I need the practical, pragmatic
person to get something on paper
and not just ideas in the sky.
Like, um, I definitely think
the challenge is, is the people,
but it's also the best part.
It's what I love the most
about our firm and our jobs.
Um, but or clients.
Clients that can be difficult.
Um, not all clients are rosy and amazing.
There are some that are hard
to work with, and you've got
to learn to work with people.
We're in a customer service industry.
We're getting paid at the
end of the day to do a job.
Um, and so Having to ask clients
for money or those kinds of things.
Like, those are not fun conversations
always, but those are parts of my job
that I never thought I would be doing
when I was in interior design school.
Sandesh Joshi: Yeah.
And I think you, you rightly said people.
I think people, I he- heard people
multiple times, and y- that's one
piece we are often not taught in
school, how to work with people.
I mean, as simple as it might
sound, um, but that becomes
often the core of leadership.
Um, so, a- and everybody eventually
figures it out one way or another.
But people, uh, th- something, you
know, I have learned, uh, eh- Anything
that I don't know is difficult,
but once I know it, it's easy.
So if we don't know how to
work with people, you know,
it seems challenging for sure.
Uh, but that's also the opportunity.
Um, we-- Having great people around us,
uh, is really the key to future growth.
So I'm wondering, you know, Eddie,
how do you look at your, uh, journey
right now as in initial struggles
versus what are you focused on
in terms of leadership right now?
Eddie Munoz: I think, I think Anne
nailed that one, uh, with the hammer.
You know, uh, the most important thing
I think we all could agree on is,
is your team and, and your people.
Um, in, in the leadership roles
that we're in, you, you're forced
to wear multiple hats every day.
You know, you have to-- You're wearing
your leader hat, you have to wear
your team player hat, and your, um,
your, and, uh, two AQC process hat.
And one of the most important
ones, I think, is I call
it the Dr. Phil hat, right?
You have to be able to know how that
you're approaching your team and those
specific people on your team, um,
when you're, when you're trying to
get together and get a project done.
So the way that I would, uh, approach,
um, John, for example, on a, a
specific task, uh, is not the same
way that I would approach Jane with,
with the same kind of a task, right?
You have to, you have to-- When you
develop those relationships and, and
build that camaraderie and build that
trust within your team, um, you also
have to learn the best way to communicate
with them, um, in, in terms of what is
their learning styles, how do they learn?
Um, do I need to talk to them directly
with data, or do I need to talk
to them from a, from a big picture
point of view with ideas and get them
excited about the idea of the project?
Uh, so that, that is one of the
most important things when you're
putting your team together.
And it is a challenge because people
are people, and there's, uh, you
know, there's different attitudes,
different days of the work you come
in, stuff's going on in, in your life.
And, um, taking that, that moment,
that pause to, to learn or absorb
how they're coming across to you
in their conversations is, is a
key thing to pick up on and, and be
able to, to grow and, you know, Dr.
Phil the situation, uh, as needed.
Um, which it-- I love it.
You know, that's one of the, the best
parts because at the end of the day, your
teammates, they, they recognize that,
they understand that, um, okay, well, you
know, he's not just kind of, uh, coming
at me from a, a demanding perspective.
It's more of Uh, I'm, I'm here
as your, as your teammate, um, as
your, as your, uh, right next to
you working through these projects.
What's the best way for us to do this
together to, to meet the same goal?
Um, so, you know, making sure
that the team's there in place,
that you build that camaraderie.
At the end of the day,
it builds trust, right?
And it builds a culture.
And like Anne said, when, when you're,
um, first interviewing somebody, yeah, you
look at the resume, but the most important
thing is how do you feel about that person
and how do they fit into that culture
that you're, that you're building, right?
If it's the best resume in the world,
they knock out all the boxes, but
then when you have the opportunity to
interact with them, you could get a
feeling pretty quickly if that person
is gonna be part of the culture or
if it's just not gonna be a good fit.
And sometimes, you know, you have to
sacrifice the stars, the five-star
recruit, um, just because it's not
really a good fit for your team
Sandesh Joshi: Yep.
Um, very well said.
I think, um, people think, um, the,
the resume on paper is, uh, of course
valuable, but is, it's just one piece
of the puzzle, not the complete puzzle.
And, um, in looking at the
culture, looking at the right
fit is often far more important.
Um, I'm wondering, you know, if you
look back as you, um, you know, Eddie,
look back, uh, through your, let's
say, halfway through your career
journey, and if you were to advise
yourself, how would you advise your
younger self, um, to be a better
leader now that you know what you know?
Eddie Munoz: Um, if I could
go back, I would tell myself
to trust the process, right?
Um, there are so many times
that I felt, um, overwhelmed.
I didn't really feel like I was
making the best decisions all the
time, um, just because, again, just
being thrown in-into the fire and
having to be forged out of the fire.
You, you do have to make some, some
decisions sometimes that you c-
you second guess yourself, right?
Um, and if I go back and tell
myself something, it'd be, you know,
"Relax. Trust the process," right?
You-you've established, uh,
this goal of where you wanna
be in the next five, ten years.
Stick with the process and, and
continuing to be present in, in
those everyday moments, right?
Those, uh, those little moments that
happen every day during the routine,
by being present, that's where you gain
the experience, you gain the knowledge,
you gain, you gain the armor, right?
You're, you're gaining all of this,
all these little things that you really
don't really take the time to appreciate
when you're going through them.
But if you can just take a, a minute
to relax, absorb it, um, and just
kinda trust where the process is
going, you gain the experience, right?
And that's, that's what's, the, uh, what's
important, is gaining the experience
by actually going through it, um, and
creating the avenues and creating the,
the path for those following behind you.
Sandesh Joshi: Yeah.
I mean, it sounds like also, in a way,
you're, um, uh… or at least I'm picking
up is, uh, to be more patient, is, uh,
just trust the process, as you said.
Mm. And sometimes, uh, especially the
younger self is, uh, impatient, like,
"I want results now"- Absolutely … or
maybe even yesterday if, if I could.
Um, so v-v-very well said.
Um, uh, same question for you, An.
I'm wondering what would you
advise your younger self, uh,
in terms of, uh, leadership?
How can you do better?
Ann Fritz: Uh, I think I'd cut myself some
slack, maybe give myself a little more
grace, and not be afraid to ask for help.
I think I advocate for myself very well.
I think there's a balance with
today's younger generation.
They almost advocate too much, I can
say, for themselves and are not always
thinking about the bigger picture
or the company or the, you know,
there's a bigger picture out there.
And, um, I, I appreciate their boldness
and their willingness to speak up and
say, "I need a raise. I, I, you know,
I deserve that." But then they're not
always understanding the why behind it.
I don't think I did that enough in a way.
Like, as a younger, um, leader,
I just did what I was told.
I just tried to work hard and show up
and, you know, every day Put on a bright
face and keep going, but sometimes at a
detriment to, like, my wellbeing or my
family or, you know, my work-life balance.
We just f- I think it's generational too.
It's interesting how certain generations
are just like, "Just suck it up and
get it done," and, and others are like,
"Ugh, I need to go, you know, take
a personal day." And, um, I, I think
there's a balance of that, and it's
an interesting time as leaders where
the baby boomers are all retiring.
We've had a second-generation
shift of owners in our firm.
And now, you know, I'm in my
40s, and I'm, I'm the old, like,
crotchety one at this point.
I don't know.
But somet- like the, the yout- like
the younger generation, I think they
look up to us in a, in a way that's,
that's, that's great that they look up
to us for advice, but they also think
like, "Why are you working so hard?"
Like, "Go home," you know?
I don't know.
It's, it's a different world.
Um, and I, I think looking back, I
would maybe not be so hard on myself
and just l- have a little bit more
patience, like you said, and, and again,
not, not be afraid to ask for help.
Sandesh Joshi: Um, be more kind to
yourself in a way, I think you're saying.
Ann Fritz: Yeah,
Sandesh Joshi: yeah.
Um, well, thank you f- both of you.
I mean, what you're sharing is
really some vulnerable moments.
I mean, sharing, um, so what you can
improve upon or what, uh, you, how
you look back is really powerful.
Um, it's, it's really helpful,
especially for the future leaders, to
be leaders, to hear from, um, you know,
successful people like you, you know,
that you also went through a similar
phase and, um, it's, it's really, um,
really nice to hear from both of you.
I'm wondering, Anne, what is an exciting
project or what is it that you're working
on right now that, um, maybe keeps you
up at night i- in terms of excitement?
Uh, what are you excited about?
Ann Fritz: I'd say right now I'm
really excited about where the
hospitality industry is going.
Um, we're seeing a lot of activity
around the country where, whether it's
a new stadium or a university, but
any of those kind of bigger, uh, kinda
campuses that bring people together,
where there's a lot of hotels and
entertainment happening in those areas.
I'm not really a sporty girl, but for
some reason I keep getting to work on
these hotels that are sports adjacent.
My husband's like, "How come you get to
work on these things? You don't even know,
like, the names of any of these players I
mention." But, um, I understand the spirit
of a team and wanting it to do well,
and, um, that's been really, really fun.
I also… We're seeing
a lot of conversions.
I feel like, um, in the architecture
world, conversions have been talked
about for a long time, but taking a
building that was something and turning
it into a total new use has been, um,
very rewarding to work on, whether it's
a historic adaptive reuse, um, where
you get to work with something that's
got some really cool s- bones and
history, um, or even taking, let's say,
a limited service hotel and- Totally
gutting it and remodeling it, and then
raising the rates and doing a boutique
hotel, but having the same footprint
and not having to spend as much money
because you've got the infrastructure
and, and the kinda core building
elements there to make that make sense
financially for some of these owners.
So hotels are definitely, um, just fun.
People love going to a hotel that
makes them feel something about
whatever city they're visiting.
So it's really digging in and researching
the demographic, the area, and making sure
that it's a place that even the locals
wanna hang out, and not just a place that
you have to go stay on a business trip.
Um, but that you wanna
be in those lobbies.
Like, my job is fun.
The fact that I get to let people
feel something when they walk
into a space is pretty cool.
Sandesh Joshi: I think what I'm
hearing also, I think you're excited
about doing something new, which is
changing, um, s- And I'm wondering,
I mean, as we get it, it's exciting.
New things often come with challenges.
Uh, are there any challenges
that you're dealing with?
Anything that comes to your mind?
Ann Fritz: Absolutely.
Um, the economy is a big challenge.
As, like, tariffs started, that
affected my industry big time.
Um, and so certain projects will
go on hold or hit the brakes
when you work with developers in
the private sector especially.
It's very dependent on loans
and banks being willing to
loan money to these owners.
And so sometimes you get really excited
about a project, and I've got my heart
set on it, and I can't wait, and then it
goes on hold or dies or it comes back.
And then stop, start, stop, start.
That's frustrating and challenging,
and it's also difficult from a
staffing perspective to, like, keep
the same consistent teams on it.
And, um, I'd say that, that is
difficult, and so is workload.
Managing our workload f- with 110
people, and when those projects can have
inconsistent schedules, keeping 110 people
busy, you know, and, and juggling staffing
and personalities and all of those things,
and getting the right person on the right
job, and consistently on the right job,
that's a, that's a big challenge that I
actually have to go to a workload meeting
later, and it's a puzzle every, every day.
Sandesh Joshi: Yeah.
I hear that a lot as, I mean, talking
to a lot of our clients as well.
I think managing fluctuating workload
is one of the toughest things, uh,
and managing people along with that,
you know, mapping them correctly.
Um, so I, I, I respect that.
I completely understand.
So, uh, I'm wondering, you know,
Eddie, what are you working on?
What excites you?
What's your, what's your
exciting project right now?
Eddie Munoz: Um, I think right now what
I'm most excited for is, is actually more
industry-wide, um, in kind of, you know,
the future or the direction that the
surveying industry is, is moving forward.
You know, I think historically, um,
most of the project managers or the
licensed surveyors, especially here
in Florida, were, were always older.
I think maybe the average age
of a, of a surveyor was like,
uh, mid, mid to late 50s.
Um, but now I'm starting to notice that,
uh, there's a lot more y- of the younger
generation that are getting interested,
um, in the surveying industry and,
and are starting to pick that, that
career path over, you know, some other
similar avenues like, you know, civil
engineering or any kind of, uh, um,
GIS components or something like that.
And, uh, it's, it's good to see that,
so I, I really am ex- uh, excited
about Being able to play a role by
going to, you know, high schools
or going to colleges and having the
opportunity to speak about a profession.
Uh, the technology, uh, ever ev- evolving,
I think, you know, with like drones and,
and scanning and LiDAR, um, and all the,
the new technology that's available,
it kind of really piques the interest
of, you know, the generation that's,
that's, uh, coming up because it's
like the video game generation, right?
And if you can kind of relate the video
game aspect of it over to… It's very
similar going and scanning a, a whole
field and looking at, at that, that data
or the point cloud and, and treating
it, um, by somewhat like a video game.
Hey, here's your challenge now.
How are we gonna process this
data to make it, uh, usable?
You know, like building twin
cities and stuff like that.
Uh, and it seems like the younger
generation is on top of it, right?
Um, so being able to connect that gap
or, you know, bridge the new technique,
tech-savvy, younger generation and,
you know, guide them into a fulfilling
career where they could use that
imagination, they could use those skills
that, those soft skills that it seems
like they're born with, um, and try
to make, uh, the, this industry more
youth-centric and, and, um, you know,
attract more potential future licensed
surveyors to our, to our industry.
So that's something now I have, uh, a
lot of interest in trying to outreach
as much as I can to the, the younger
generation, get them on track, and just
provide, um, an example of, hey, here's
a very successful career path for you.
You could be, have a great career
doing whatever it is that you wanna do
and, and, and love it and, and build
something very successful for yourself.
Sandesh Joshi: In surveying, you talked
about kind of, uh, relate, correlating
it to video games, digital data, LiDAR.
Um, where does AI fit in?
Eddie Munoz: AI.
Um, well, I mean, we, we start, I started
playing a little bit with AI as far as,
um, trying to generate reports or generate
manuals, QA, QC documents, uh, even
proposal letters, um, stuff like that.
And there's always… I think
everybody kind of has the underlying
lack of knowledge or fear of AI,
like, will this replace me, right?
Um, I think one positive thing for, for
land surveyors is that as long as there's
a need for humans out in the field to
actually perform the work to data collect,
then, you know, AI would be a useful tool,
uh, to help You know, saw some of those
processes, um, but that's what it is.
It's a tool, right?
Um, you don't ever wanna be
dependent on AI because you still
need to have some creativity.
There still has to be some, uh, human
decisions to be made, um, interpretations
of data, um, and things like that.
So as we move further along in th-
this new AI world, um, just being
able to refine or learn processes
using AI and just remembering
that it's a tool, you know.
It's a tool in your toolbox to
help you, uh, refine, create
processes, um, and things like that.
Sandesh Joshi: And AI, I mean,
AI is a buzzword for probably
a couple of years now, and it's
hard n- not to talk about AI.
Uh, I'm wondering, you know,
um, how do- does AI fit into
your company or your industry?
What do you see the role?
Ann Fritz: Yeah, I definitely hear
about it at every conference I attend.
Um, we're all experimenting with it.
Uh, like Eddie, we use it as a tool,
uh, especially to help with writing.
Um, but I don't… You can tell
when something's generated by
ChatGPT or AI versus a human, and
I think design is so personal, and
people, people understand design.
Whether they can describe it or
not, they feel it, and so I think
it's really important that we
keep that human touch on things.
Um, we use AI, though,
like, to study design ideas.
It doesn't mean we're gonna exactly copy
what, you know, what gets regurgitated
to, to us through AI, but, but if, if it's
a, a way to quickly look at examples, we
could do this, we could do this or this,
and then we from there build our own idea.
But it, it helps, um, it
helps influence the end game.
It definitely can save time.
I think it's a little bit scary that
you could get, like, a whole set of
documents for a building drafted by AI,
um, but doesn't mean it's good design.
Like you… I think, uh, people say,
"Well, what if my job goes away?"
And I'm like, "Well, clients need us
to tell them what design is good."
Like, that's why they hire us, right?
So we have to be the ones feeding the AI
machine those words and those descriptors
and those parameters or that program or,
um… It just doesn't come up with it
by itself, so somebody's gotta be the
manpower, woman power behind it that
has to kinda drive those decisions.
So it'll be interesting.
It's fun to see it used for renderings
and 3D renderings and things like
that, or even furniture design.
We can put in something and say,
"Build this chair. We want it to
feel like this," and it spits out
ideas and You know, that's kind of
cool, and then we can sketch over
it and change it and manipulate it.
And, and so like, like
Eddie said, it is a tool.
It gets things going.
Sandesh Joshi: Yeah.
I mean, it sounds like, yeah, a, a tool
for ideation research, kind of coming
up with something, a concept very
quickly, tweaking it- Yeah … but then
eventually you work on it a lot more to
get to really what you need it to be.
Ann Fritz: Yeah.
It's not the
Sandesh Joshi: solution.
So yeah.
Absolutely.
I think, um, AI is definitely
becoming a common tool everywhere
you go, um, so good to hear.
I'm wondering, as you look at
your industry, um, and what's
coming up, you know, what are
the big changes that you see?
Uh, what is exciting?
What is scary?
Ann Fritz: Um, I definitely think AI
is a big change, you know, and it's,
uh, not to dwell on that topic, but
it's, it's influencing things greatly.
Um, it'll be interesting
to watch how it plays out.
Um, in terms of some of the mundane
things that we do, you know, like that
are more clinical or repetitive, more
administrative tasks, note-taking or
reporting, like that makes total sense
for me that, that, that can create
some efficiencies and help us, um,
spend more time doing the creative
things we love and let AI do some of
the mundane kind of monotonous things.
Like, I can see that happening.
Um, I also think that our
world is turning more global.
ESG only works nationally, but it'll
be interesting to see how design starts
to reach, um, internationally and how,
and how travel is changing and how
people are working, just even us doing
this call or recording today, all of
us in different states completely.
And, um, COVID really gave us all a
big boost because of, you know, we all
learned… I designed an entire 34-story
building with a team from my home office.
You know?
Like, that's crazy that
we can do that now.
Um, and so I think it's interesting
how… Or I travel all the time, like
I said, but all, almost all my clients
and projects are out of state, and I
am doing a lot of that work virtually.
I'm gonna get on a call for a
project in Ohio, and I have another
one in Wisconsin, and, you know,
I'm flying to Vegas tomorrow.
Like- Travel and just the, our ability
to share knowledge and information like
that, um, I think is really changing
our, our world, not just our industry.
Sandesh Joshi: Yep.
I think the world is truly getting global.
Uh, it is getting smaller.
So yeah, um, I, I definitely
second everything you just said.
Um, Eddie, what do you have to say?
You know, what, uh, what's
your industry going through?
Uh, what's exciting?
Eddie Munoz: I, I think along the same
lines of what Anne was mentioning,
you know, I think, um, technology, uh,
as, as technology keeps on enhancing,
uh, all it does is improve our, our
work processes, make, uh, the data
collection so much more efficient.
You know, a few years ago, GPS, you
know, got introduced into surveying, and
then that really reduced the amount of
time that you needed to collect data,
accurate data, survey quality data.
And now, you know, the next wave
generation is, is lidar, drones,
mobile lidar mapping, uh, et cetera,
et cetera, along with, um, some
of the real-time communication,
uh, that Anne mentioned, right?
Um, before, you know, a few years
ago, it was always how do you get the
data from the field to the office?
Well, you need to bring it in.
You need to dump it on a computer.
Then you need to go
through all the processing.
Where we're getting to the point
now of, of real-time communication
where the field crew's gonna be in
the field collecting data, and you
could, you could observe them, uh,
real time while they're collecting
that data and, and be able to have it
instantly, get it processed, uh, before
they even make it back to the office.
So as technology evolves and some of
those processes get streamlined and,
um, more efficient, you know, it just
leads to, um, a better proj- a better,
uh, more quality, uh, deliverable
that, that we do i- in the long run in
a, a shorter amount of time, which of
course is going to cut costs, right?
Make us more, uh, more efficient to
our clients and make our, our clients'
schedule, uh, more manageable as well.
Um, so technology is, is
definitely a good one.
Um, and, and again, just looking
forward to, uh, being able to,
to mentor and hone the, the next
generation of leaders, right?
Making sure that we're putting the,
uh, uh, creating a path for them to
move forward so they can learn from,
uh, from our mistakes and, and, uh,
turn into great leaders themselves.
Sandesh Joshi: I think that's a wonderful
point, and I, I think developing
future leaders is also a noble cause.
It's, uh, important for the
industry, so good for you, um, Eddie.
And, you know, on, on that note, I,
I want to, uh, emphasize th- this
podcast is really about sharing
leadership stories, so really
appreciate, uh, both of you sharing
your leadership journey for the benefit
of other leaders, uh, to-be leaders.
Um, and, um, on a closing thought, I'm
wondering, you know, if you, uh, have
the opportunity to give a 30-second
advice to, uh, for someone mid-career
looking to expand into a leadership
role, what would that advice be?
Um, Anne, do you wanna go first?
Ann Fritz: Sure.
I- someone mentioned this the other day,
and I can't stop thinking about it, but
the way to move ahead or get promoted
is to think about what could you do
that would make your boss's job easier?
Instead of making it harder.
Like, some, some employees make our
jobs harder because they're difficult to
manage or there's just, it's a struggle.
And others see a need and they're
proactive, and they said, they think
ahead, they see the big picture.
And you go to them, they're like, "Oh,
I already did it, and I did this XYZ."
And he- and it's like, "Oh my gosh,
that's amazing. Thank you. Now I don't
have to do that." I think that's how you
get seen and noticed and move up quickly.
Sandesh Joshi: Wonderful.
I think, uh, what I'm also hearing
between the lines is that, uh, y- your
boss is essentially your customer.
Make sure you deliver to your
customer and kind of that's gonna
help you climb up the ladder.
So thank you, Anne.
Uh, Eddie?
Eddie Munoz: Yeah, I
love that answer, Anne.
That was, that was perfect.
Um, so I'm, I would like to steal
that one, but I'm not going to.
But I'm gonna, I'm gonna remember
that for my day-to-day job.
Um, I think, um, one thing that I
would, you know, make sure to mention
to somebody that, you know, wants to
continue their leadership journey is
to be present in the moment, right?
Um, all the tasks that you do routinely
on a, on a day-to-day job, there's
always an opportunity, like Anne said,
to be able to, to rise, to go above and
beyond, to go that extra mile, right?
If you know there's a submission
coming up and let's say I'm out of
the office on a, on a call, go ahead
and bundle it up and just have it
ready to go so I don't have to do the,
the, the, the miniature stuff, right?
There's so many little tasks that
could get delegated throughout the day
that you're just like, "Well, well,
I'll just take care of this." But if
you're, you know, in that position
and you're, you wanna be a leader,
just take, take control, make the
decisions, and, and live with them.
You know, be present in those
opportunities because they come along,
they come along, and if you just grab
it and go with it, that is leading by
example, and you don't even know it.
Sandesh Joshi: Yeah.
I mean, I think, um, very well said.
I- look for the small wins, look
for the smaller opportunities, and
they're, if you, if, if I'm awake
enough, I'll see it everywhere.
Um, so living in the
moment, I, I love that.
So on that note, um, I really
want to thank both of you
for joining this podcast.
Um, and in the spirit of Indivane's
tagline, Let's Grow Together, I sincerely
appreciate you being open and vulnerable
and sharing your career stories candidly
and helping us all grow together.
Thank you once again, and have a wonderful
day.