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Interviews with top marketers sharing tactical tips, strategies, and lessons learned to help you grow your business. Hosted by Dave Gerhardt, founder of Exit Five, former CMO, and author of Founder Brand. Learn more at exitfive.com
Dave [0:00:01]: You're listening to The Dave Gerhardt Show.
Dave [0:00:02]: Hey, my guess on this episode is Patrick Shea.
Dave [0:00:19]: He is the SVP of Global Marketing at BlueVoyant.
Dave [0:00:22]: They're are a hundred and seventy five million dollar.
Dave [0:00:24]: Revenue enterprise cybersecurity company five hundred employees, and this is an interesting episode because Their whole business is built around this deep partnership with Microsoft.
Dave [0:00:33]: We talk about why field marketing is so important in this world.
Dave [0:00:36]: Why sales enable is important working with finance.
Dave [0:00:40]: One of the CMOs that is my mentor said that this guy, Patrick Shea is the best person he's ever seen to work with finance.
Dave [0:00:46]: And so if you're an enterprise marketer or just wanna know more about how enterprise marketing works, I think you're gonna really enjoy my conversation with Patrick Shea, SVP of Global Marketing at BlueVoyant.
Dave [0:00:55]: Alright.
Dave [0:00:56]: My guest today is mister Patrick Shea.
Dave [0:00:58]: He's SVP global marketing at BlueVoyant, five hundred person enterprise cybersecurity company.
Dave [0:01:05]: And an interesting space, and I know you from back in the day at spot.
Dave [0:01:10]: Your employee number hundred at Hubspot, ran marketing.
Dave [0:01:14]: You worked for Mike Vol at cyber, Mike's a good friend of mine, mentor mine.
Dave [0:01:19]: And Tom went at recorded future, and another good friend and a mentor of mine.
Dave [0:01:23]: So like, they're here, One thing you learn from Tom and one thing you learn from Mike.
Patrick [0:01:28]: So those two good questions.
Dave [0:01:30]: Thank you.
Dave [0:01:30]: I do this for a living.
Dave [0:01:31]: Like one thing you're taken into your job, like, into how you do marketing today.
Patrick [0:01:35]: Yeah.
Patrick [0:01:35]: Yeah.
Patrick [0:01:36]: So first of all, lucky app the chance to work with Both those
Dave [0:01:40]: guys.
Dave [0:01:40]: Right?
Patrick [0:01:41]: I think what I learned from Mike was I learned Polish from Mike.
Patrick [0:01:45]: Oh.
Patrick [0:01:46]: We had a standing marketing meeting every Monday afternoon and, like, everybody had to stand up in front of the room and, like, show their slide and talk about their number, and you need it to be ready for it.
Patrick [0:01:58]: And, you know, I think that that's something that I've brought to different teams as I've you know, join different companies.
Patrick [0:02:05]: Like, I want everybody to get a chance to stand up and talk and practice answering questions because then you're you're better for whatever spot you're gonna be in the next day.
Patrick [0:02:14]: So that was just, like...
Patrick [0:02:15]: I mean, you do that, there were a lot of really smart people in that room.
Patrick [0:02:18]: So standing up and taking questions and, like, yeah.
Patrick [0:02:21]: Heck it was it was polish.
Dave [0:02:23]: That's what drew me to Hubspot in general and Mike at that time.
Dave [0:02:26]: And you all really was like, you guys made it cool to be a marketer because you made it, like, marketing...
Dave [0:02:31]: He made it so clear that, like, marketing is not just the arts and crafts department.
Dave [0:02:36]: It's an essential function to the health and growth of the business.
Dave [0:02:40]: And everything is metrics oriented, everything as a goal, everything is about having a purpose to drive some next things forward.
Dave [0:02:47]: Marketing is integrated across the company.
Dave [0:02:49]: It's a really good one polishing.
Dave [0:02:50]: And I always have wondered, like, anytime I've tried to do that stand up I always wanted to just did everybody hate me for doing this as a burden, but you have to do those things.
Dave [0:02:58]: I feel like you have to force people to do some of those things.
Patrick [0:03:01]: And to make marketing a crucial function in an organization, you need to feel like people can go out and communicate the value of marketing.
Patrick [0:03:07]: In this meeting and in that meeting and in this thing and in that thing.
Patrick [0:03:11]: And if nothing else, it gave us practice,
Dave [0:03:15]: you know,
Patrick [0:03:15]: about talking about things and sharing things and being gave all the articulate things.
Patrick [0:03:19]: And every week, you would hear him talk, and you would write something down that he you would bring it to a meeting.
Patrick [0:03:23]: And it was polished and it was all such the way of kind cascading the confidence behind marking through the company.
Dave [0:03:29]: No surprise he became a CEO after that.
Dave [0:03:31]: And then what about Tom Went?
Patrick [0:03:33]: Tom, the thing I learned from Tom was, like, structure as a strategy.
Patrick [0:03:37]: I would say, like, it kinda goes without saying, but we really put it into practice is we made sure that different like, you know, sales leader over here that has this little project, like, who are they gonna go to?
Patrick [0:03:49]: Like, customer success in Europe.
Patrick [0:03:52]: Who are they gonna go to?
Patrick [0:03:53]: Like, the whole idea of, oh, this thing is twenty five percent of somebody's job that never flew with Tom?
Patrick [0:04:00]: It was, like, you know, you need to know who is the person that they're gonna go to with this problem or this idea.
Patrick [0:04:07]: But did everything meets a clean landing spot.
Patrick [0:04:10]: And I think
Dave [0:04:11]: it's that about ownership on the marketing team, like, roles the responsibilities.
Patrick [0:04:15]: Oh, yeah, Roles and responsibilities.
Patrick [0:04:16]: In retrospect, it might seem like an obvious one, but we absolutely did it.
Patrick [0:04:21]: It was...
Patrick [0:04:21]: This sales leader, this customer success leader, this product leader, like, everybody needs to know where the responsibilities and the action is gonna land on marketing.
Dave [0:04:33]: Is that from, like, clear goal setting because I feel like, on paper, I get that, but where it breaks down a lot is, like, people
Patrick [0:04:41]: will
Dave [0:04:41]: do the things are incentivized to do.
Dave [0:04:42]: Kinda jade.
Dave [0:04:43]: And so, like, I've had a hard time with, like, people being like, fuck you.
Dave [0:04:47]: That's not my job.
Dave [0:04:48]: Why would I do That's Mary's job.
Dave [0:04:50]: How do you not have that on the team?
Patrick [0:04:52]: And think also it's, like being able to be flexible?
Patrick [0:04:55]: Because if you go into the year, it's like, okay, we've got, you know, revenue goal of this, revenue goal of that, is really about being able to, like, you know, it's the middle of the year.
Patrick [0:05:05]: It's the end of the first quarter and something new has bubble up.
Patrick [0:05:08]: We need to be able to realize that this is, like, and Tom would always say, like, this this is our biggest problem.
Patrick [0:05:14]: And it would be, like, this particular thing is not our biggest problem.
Patrick [0:05:18]: But the problem is right now.
Patrick [0:05:21]: We're not staffed to take advantage of this opportunity.
Patrick [0:05:23]: So we would figure it out.
Patrick [0:05:24]: We would break the structure, to figure it out.
Dave [0:05:27]: Yeah.
Dave [0:05:27]: I like that.
Dave [0:05:27]: Like, you could make a list of a hundred things you should be doing right now.
Dave [0:05:30]: Okay.
Dave [0:05:31]: We have awesome prep here from producer Marissa, which is Great.
Dave [0:05:34]: I have a couple places we're gonna take this.
Dave [0:05:35]: But first, tell us about your job as, you know, you lead marketing at BlueVoyant.
Dave [0:05:39]: Tell me about the company about the space.
Dave [0:05:42]: We do talk to a lot of marketers who are...
Dave [0:05:46]: I love talking to marketers who are not in like, the traditional B2B Saas, Mart tech space because I think everybody thinks that's just the only people I talk to and it's not.
Dave [0:05:54]: You're wrong.
Dave [0:05:54]: And you're a great example of that.
Dave [0:05:56]: And you left Hubspot, and you've basically become like the cyber security, like enterprise marketing guy.
Dave [0:06:01]: And I'm curious to hear about why that's interesting to you.
Patrick [0:06:04]: Yeah.
Patrick [0:06:04]: I left Hubspot, and I wouldn't necessarily say that I add this, like, incredible hunch on the company I went to go work for because I went to go work for my volt.
Dave [0:06:13]: Follow a guy.
Dave [0:06:13]: Right?
Dave [0:06:14]: Follow, Tom Brady.
Dave [0:06:15]: Like, you're gonna go advice.
Patrick [0:06:16]: So that was kinda how I got into cyber security.
Patrick [0:06:20]: And I think I'm, like, ten years plus at this point.
Patrick [0:06:22]: So I've worked at three cybersecurity companies.
Patrick [0:06:25]: This is my third.
Patrick [0:06:26]: And BlueVoyant is a managed detection response company.
Patrick [0:06:31]: I'll say a little bit more about that.
Patrick [0:06:33]: Managed detection and response is basically like, every organization has a security operation center, which is a bunch of really smart people sitting in the room with lots of monitors, making sure that bad guys don't get in.
Patrick [0:06:46]: And if they do, you find out fast, and you don't let them move.
Patrick [0:06:49]: And those security operations centers use lots of different tools.
Patrick [0:06:52]: And sometimes depending on the size of the company, you might be able to afford an amazing security operations center, or you might need to really have their priorities across a bunch of different things.
Patrick [0:07:03]: So you hire companies like BlueVoyant and we run it for you.
Dave [0:07:08]: I was gonna ask because I remember one of my first jobs out of school was I worked at constant contact.
Dave [0:07:13]: And Sure.
Dave [0:07:14]: There was a room, and I'd always walk by.
Dave [0:07:17]: I was like, you know, twenty two years old They didn't really have much work
Dave [0:07:19]: to do.
Dave [0:07:19]: I was just
Dave [0:07:20]: trying to, like, see who works in the office or whatever get a coffee.
Dave [0:07:23]: There literally was a room, and there was, like, four guys in the room and there was huge monitors and that's what their job is.
Dave [0:07:29]: But today, does everyone have that?
Dave [0:07:32]: Like, does it have to be on sight or is it because so many companies are remote now?
Dave [0:07:36]: And is that why you guys solve
Patrick [0:07:38]: It that's it's a whole variety of things, but it could be...
Patrick [0:07:40]: Like...
Patrick [0:07:41]: It could be budget.
Patrick [0:07:42]: Right?
Patrick [0:07:43]: Like, this company knows that its It and security strategy needs to mostly be over here?
Dave [0:07:49]: Yeah.
Patrick [0:07:49]: So they'll outsource to companies like us this part over here.
Dave [0:07:54]: Now is it crazy time to be in this space than even when you started to cyber security because of all the Ai in the last couple of years?
Patrick [0:08:00]: I think so.
Patrick [0:08:01]: There have been a lot...
Patrick [0:08:02]: I mean, cyber cybersecurity is is a fascinating space in general.
Patrick [0:08:06]: There are a lot of new companies that are coming out that are agenda in lots of different interesting ways and they're disrupting these old style worth companies because they've got cleaner and more Ai driven ways solving the problem.
Patrick [0:08:20]: But what's interesting is that, like, the people that are also using Ai or the attackers.
Patrick [0:08:25]: Mh.
Patrick [0:08:26]: So we're using Ai to provide better defense around the problem around our organizations, but hackers are thinking hackers and bad actors as we call, and they're thinking just as quickly and just as rapidly about us, but their problem is getting in not keeping us out.
Dave [0:08:43]: K.
Dave [0:08:43]: And you guys are roughly hundreds of employees, hundreds of millions in revenue.
Dave [0:08:48]: I'm just saying that to lend some credibility to, like, the scale that you're working on.
Dave [0:08:53]: But what does marketing look like at this company?
Dave [0:08:55]: This is not in my wheelhouse.
Dave [0:08:56]: I'm more of a, like, write it on Linkedin, do a thought leader ad, get leads, You know, But that doesn't work that doesn't work in your world.
Dave [0:09:03]: So what the marketing mix?
Patrick [0:09:04]: Look, all that stuff is still relevant, but we're about about a hundred and seventy five million.
Patrick [0:09:08]: We've got about six hundred employees worldwide, and we've been around for about nine years.
Patrick [0:09:13]: And would attracted me of the company.
Patrick [0:09:16]: Why I was excited to join BlueVoyant.
Patrick [0:09:18]: I love working at BlueVoyant.
Patrick [0:09:19]: Is, like, you know, people that are like, oh, well, we work with this partner.
Patrick [0:09:24]: We work with that partner, but, like, they don't really mean it.
Patrick [0:09:27]: It's just kinda something you say.
Patrick [0:09:28]: We have built a great business alongside of Microsoft.
Patrick [0:09:32]: Like building solutions inside of what Microsoft does and provides the company because Microsoft has a lot of security products on top of just word and Powerpoint.
Patrick [0:09:42]: So we help companies like build great security operations around the products that they're already using because, like, it's the stack thing.
Patrick [0:09:52]: Right?
Patrick [0:09:52]: Like, your defense and your security operation tools have to be in line and play nicely with the company infrastructure you're using.
Dave [0:10:00]: Yeah.
Dave [0:10:00]: So like, a channel?
Dave [0:10:01]: Is it a partnership?
Dave [0:10:03]: And is that the main piece of?
Patrick [0:10:05]: It's a.
Patrick [0:10:05]: So all the enterprise marketers out there.
Patrick [0:10:07]: Certainly all the cyber cybersecurity marketers are out there.
Patrick [0:10:09]: There's two types of partners.
Patrick [0:10:11]: They're are these large technology partners that are, like, hyper scaler.
Patrick [0:10:14]: Like, get in with Palo alto, get in with Snowflake, get in with Microsoft, build things in line with how their business is, you know, like, what products are they building.
Patrick [0:10:26]: And you need to know that answer, You scale your business in line with that answer.
Patrick [0:10:30]: There are also just reseller.
Patrick [0:10:32]: So those are, like, the Cd of the world, people that provide lots of security services, to an organization, and that's a different way in.
Patrick [0:10:41]: I would say just from my time in security You know, You see people, like, those...
Patrick [0:10:48]: The reseller piece is one, the hyper scaler tech alliance piece requires years of effort to get right.
Patrick [0:10:57]: And that's something that I had not seen in my career, So I was excited to get in and start learning about that.
Patrick [0:11:03]: And BlueVoyant also has new products and new services that are coming out that aren't as directly tied to what has got us to where we are with Microsoft.
Patrick [0:11:13]: So they liked my experience because I've got experience bringing Cybersecurity products directly to the market?
Dave [0:11:20]: Okay?
Dave [0:11:20]: What does the marketing team look like?
Patrick [0:11:22]: So we've got a really good digital team that includes design.
Patrick [0:11:25]: So we've got people running email, managing the website as well as designing really good copy and add created things like that.
Patrick [0:11:33]: We have field marketing.
Patrick [0:11:35]: So we've got like, the West Coast field marketer, East Coast field marketer and a field marketer that is over in London working with our European team.
Patrick [0:11:42]: So I love field marketing.
Patrick [0:11:45]: I think that it's like, field marketing needs to become, it needs to be thought of an account based job.
Patrick [0:11:51]: Versus just an events job, which is how the role has kind of grown over time.
Patrick [0:11:56]: But, like, these aren't people just getting us to an event, go to that event because you know the right accounts are there.
Patrick [0:12:01]: Do that thing with a reseller because you know that they have these six accounts up for renewal in the next two quarters.
Patrick [0:12:09]: So that's how we trying to think about it and we'll just throw a pop up banner in the car drive to.
Patrick [0:12:14]: We go there because we know the accounts we wanna sell it there.
Dave [0:12:18]: Yeah.
Dave [0:12:18]: You know, in the enterprise model, you'd, like, you're physically trying to go drive revenue from that event, which is...
Dave [0:12:24]: I think so healthy.
Dave [0:12:26]: I think so many of us could learn lessons from that.
Dave [0:12:28]: I made a lot of mistakes in the past, but it's like, we're gonna go there.
Dave [0:12:31]: We're gonna close ten customers.
Dave [0:12:32]: Right?
Dave [0:12:33]: Where...
Dave [0:12:33]: That's why we're going to this event and I think when you have that guard real.
Dave [0:12:36]: It changes the approach.
Dave [0:12:38]: You're not just showing up with a banner to, like, you know, post a picture about it on linkedin.
Patrick [0:12:42]: I mean, that's a huge difference between Smb and enterprise.
Patrick [0:12:45]: Yeah.
Dave [0:12:45]: Sure.
Patrick [0:12:45]: When you have longer deal cycles.
Patrick [0:12:47]: There's gonna have to be an in person element to it, especially in security where it's like, I gotta look at you in the eye and shake your hands, be able to trust you in your company.
Patrick [0:12:55]: So this in person piece always is a part of it.
Patrick [0:12:57]: So if you don't have a sharp pencil there.
Patrick [0:12:59]: You know, you have to...
Patrick [0:13:01]: End it...
Patrick [0:13:01]: And it's also a big line item on the budget.
Patrick [0:13:03]: So you have to make sure that you can explain it.
Patrick [0:13:05]: In terms of your Ic and the accounts that you are a sell to.
Dave [0:13:09]: You mentioned, like, Ab is the marketing or rallied around that, some set number of customers and accounts that you're trying to get into versus testing a wider net, like, doing inbound.
Patrick [0:13:20]: Yeah.
Patrick [0:13:20]: Absolutely.
Patrick [0:13:20]: Like, we also have some things that we know just need to get fixed and get better.
Patrick [0:13:25]: So we've got pedal to the medal on a lot of top of the funnel initiatives, but we ultimately come back and say, like, did this hit our target account.
Patrick [0:13:33]: Like, this past quarter, we wanna do, you know, five thousand engagements or, you know, interactions or Mt.
Patrick [0:13:40]: Whatever you call that top line number.
Patrick [0:13:42]: What
Dave [0:13:42]: do you guys call it?
Dave [0:13:43]: How do you do it?
Patrick [0:13:44]: So we're, like, we have an Mt definition, but it sits inside of that Ic list.
Patrick [0:13:50]: So in M mt is an M mt, I think you've probably beaten the Sql horse, a fair bit on this podcast, but it's more about, like, can you get somebody to pop up and be qualified in the way that you define it at an account that matters?
Patrick [0:14:05]: We'll end up moving towards more of that, like, qualified account measurement.
Patrick [0:14:10]: But right now, we use it because it works, and we know that we're trying to get those things to land inside of this segment accounts that we care about.
Dave [0:14:17]: Hey.
Dave [0:14:17]: Look, for every guy on Linkedin that has...
Dave [0:14:19]: And is usually a guy.
Dave [0:14:20]: That has written about Sql is dead.
Dave [0:14:23]: There's a person who's actually running marketing inside of you know, hundred and seventy five million dollar enterprise company that's like, no, They works for us, and here's why.
Dave [0:14:31]: And here's how we do it.
Dave [0:14:32]: And I mean,
Patrick [0:14:33]: I don't like an I behold thing.
Patrick [0:14:34]: Like, if you go in and you say, like, Mt robust.
Patrick [0:14:37]: Like, I don't know I've raised my eyebrows out.
Dave [0:14:39]: Yeah.
Dave [0:14:39]: What's the definition of it?
Dave [0:14:40]: Right?
Dave [0:14:40]: It's, like, yeah, what are we??
Patrick [0:14:42]: Like, I'm defining Sql as engagement in an account that matters.
Patrick [0:14:46]: I mean, you call want.
Dave [0:14:48]: Yeah.
Dave [0:14:48]: Okay.
Dave [0:14:48]: So all of marketing is working under that umbrella.
Dave [0:14:51]: You mentioned digital web.
Dave [0:14:53]: Yeah.
Dave [0:14:54]: Just ads copy field Yep field marketing, K what else?
Patrick [0:14:58]: Product marketing?
Patrick [0:14:59]: So we have a Pm team that sit, like, directly above the products that we have and they own...
Patrick [0:15:06]: We can talk about everything that they own, but they basically own the entire stance around that product.
Patrick [0:15:12]: And that is both, does sales know what to say.
Patrick [0:15:16]: Can they articulate the value?
Patrick [0:15:18]: Can they sell it?
Patrick [0:15:19]: Do I feel like they're certified on the right content all the way to...
Patrick [0:15:23]: I need to create some really, really strong top of the funnel stuff?
Patrick [0:15:27]: To make sure that my product is...
Patrick [0:15:29]: Represented the right way inside of our demand mix or our growth mix.
Dave [0:15:33]: Okay?
Dave [0:15:33]: People love hearing about people's marketing team.
Patrick [0:15:39]: Sure.
Dave [0:15:40]: I'm just curious if there's, like, a question I should be asked you there.
Dave [0:15:42]: I don't know a lot about your marketing team.
Dave [0:15:44]: But and the reason why is because every company is different, and it's almost like comparing, you know, the patriots to the eagles and, like, how they run their, you know, people are really interested in the systems and the rhythms and the routines for, like, how you actually run marketing and go and achieve these goals with the ingredients you have.
Patrick [0:16:01]: Well, a couple of things, we've got...
Patrick [0:16:03]: I mean, I think this comes up a lot in the stuff that you published, but back to basics,
Dave [0:16:09]: Yeah.
Dave [0:16:09]: I saw this in your doc.
Dave [0:16:10]: I love you not talked about an.
Patrick [0:16:12]: And, like, you know, we're not trying to create any new marketing channels.
Patrick [0:16:15]: Because anybody out there will tell you that getting back to basics, probably just as much of a lift as doing something crazy new and totally challenging.
Patrick [0:16:23]: But what we've got...
Patrick [0:16:24]: Like, what we've been trying to do is really lean into that Ic definition.
Patrick [0:16:28]: So taking, you know, we've got these accounts well contents s indication vendors line up with these accounts.
Patrick [0:16:33]: And we just recently added the Bd team kinda of back into the mix like, six to nine months ago.
Patrick [0:16:39]: So we're basically saying, like, we wanna get more out of the money that we're spending, and we need to make sure that we've got hits on these iso p's to keep Bd r's busy.
Patrick [0:16:47]: So back to basics for sure, We also have...
Patrick [0:16:51]: Like, we do a fair amount of marketing to, like, in a world where you rely on these big companies like Microsoft and other tech alliance partners.
Patrick [0:17:01]: It's not like, Oh, I'm gonna send them a newsletter every month, and they'll totally plug in.
Patrick [0:17:06]: We have an entire team at the company that focuses on making sure they know how Microsoft is ebb and flowing.
Patrick [0:17:13]: And marketing is crucial to all of that.
Patrick [0:17:15]: Like, we are marketing to Microsoft like, almost as aggressively as we market the prospects.
Dave [0:17:23]: How do you do that?
Dave [0:17:23]: Is it internal?
Dave [0:17:24]: It's just like, emails and meetings?
Patrick [0:17:25]: It's emails, and it's also, like, we need to make sure that we are tightly aligned with the reps that then go out and meet with the Microsoft reps.
Patrick [0:17:33]: So we're almost doing, like,
Dave [0:17:35]: a lot of sales enable that.
Patrick [0:17:36]: Yeah.
Patrick [0:17:36]: Like, third level sales enable it.
Patrick [0:17:38]: But then it's also like, hey, Microsoft is having a Qb in Texas in a couple of weeks.
Patrick [0:17:45]: If we ask the right person if we ask nicely, maybe we can get in and be the sponsor the happy hour.
Patrick [0:17:50]: So it's like nothing is really off at the table.
Dave [0:17:53]: And if you did something like that, would that be something that even with the relationship with Microsoft.
Dave [0:17:57]: Would you be able to go down there do that event and be like, yeah, we met four or five interesting prospects from going there.
Patrick [0:18:04]: Well, we would meet so that's the interesting part about it is you...
Patrick [0:18:07]: You basically like, your marketing qualified leader, your qualified prospect.
Patrick [0:18:11]: Is that internal Microsoft person.
Patrick [0:18:13]: Been asked the keys to different parts of business and different segments dang.
Dave [0:18:18]: This is so crazy.
Dave [0:18:18]: This is so outside of my league, and there's one guy who always comments on my podcast.
Patrick [0:18:22]: Like, how was this guy of Vp
Dave [0:18:23]: of marketing.
Dave [0:18:23]: He doesn't know anything.
Dave [0:18:24]: I have a lot of Linkedin followers, Buddy.
Dave [0:18:26]: That's how...
Dave [0:18:27]: Wait.
Dave [0:18:28]: And so if you sponsor a Microsoft event, you pay Microsoft for that event, Like, where does that money go to them?
Dave [0:18:34]: Is it like their marketing team is making money on their events or is it just a shared cost that's interesting.
Patrick [0:18:39]: It's a shared cost because they want to and, you know, the inner workings of Microsoft, there are a lot of other people that know this better than me.
Patrick [0:18:47]: But for all of the customers they have for all the products that they deploy, they can't run all those services in house.
Patrick [0:18:54]: They can't onboard everybody using Microsoft word or the security equivalent of it.
Patrick [0:18:59]: So Yeah.
Patrick [0:19:00]: Their whole ecosystem is working with service providers like ours.
Patrick [0:19:04]: So if you're the right type of service provider and you've done the work.
Patrick [0:19:09]: Like, you can't just fly in and say, I'm gonna be Microsoft's number one partner.
Dave [0:19:14]: Okay?
Patrick [0:19:14]: Like, we've actually...
Patrick [0:19:15]: I think three out of the last five, we've been Microsoft security partner of the year, but that's because we've been invested in it for ten.
Dave [0:19:23]: I'm India world.
Dave [0:19:24]: Then that's, like, how you gotta be in, you know, Ga, g two or whatever.
Dave [0:19:27]: That's like the ultimate badge.
Dave [0:19:28]: Like, that is, like, probably becomes your best marketing ingredient is that that badge.
Dave [0:19:32]: Yeah.
Dave [0:19:32]: You can put on all your stuff.
Patrick [0:19:34]: No.
Patrick [0:19:34]: It is.
Patrick [0:19:34]: And I think that, like, the trap people fall into is they just use that to market to, like, the Microsoft people, but it's also, like, that is your market.
Patrick [0:19:44]: Right?
Patrick [0:19:45]: Like, if you're working with a hyper scaler, like that a big tech company like that, they've already defined the market, it's huge.
Patrick [0:19:51]: Just use that.
Patrick [0:19:52]: And use that is, like, that can't be your only tagline, your only value prop, but it certainly has to be one of the best.
Dave [0:19:58]: Pretty dang.
Dave [0:19:58]: It's like, having, you know, being a Uber driver with four point nine stars You're like, I'm not gonna get kidnapped.
Patrick [0:20:03]: Another way that people get, especially a enterprise get the partner thing wrong is they kinda treat all the different things that you do with a partner as a demand gen activity?
Patrick [0:20:16]: Like, I think Barker in general get into trouble when they set the expectation to either the finance team or other people in the organization that, hey, all my money gonna be behave the same because it's not.
Dave [0:20:29]: I was gonna ask you this next actually.
Dave [0:20:30]: So there's a quote in here that said, Tom When word said you're the best marketer.
Dave [0:20:34]: He's ever seen it working with finance, so you're gonna make you answer that.
Dave [0:20:37]: Why.
Dave [0:20:38]: Why is that?
Dave [0:20:39]: Wait?
Dave [0:20:40]: And why is that?
Dave [0:20:40]: And then the other thing was what you were just kinda r on, which is, like, you get into trouble when explaining specific things versus types of things, channels behave differently and so will the money.
Dave [0:20:50]: First, let's talk about your reputation with the finance department.
Patrick [0:20:54]: Yeah.
Patrick [0:20:54]: So he said that.
Patrick [0:20:55]: You might not remember, but he said...
Patrick [0:20:56]: I...
Dave [0:20:57]: Like being the Microsoft top partner.
Dave [0:20:58]: It doesn't matter.
Dave [0:20:59]: Well, you know?
Patrick [0:21:00]: That's your.
Patrick [0:21:00]: I should put that quote from Bob.
Patrick [0:21:02]: Like, I'm personally people.
Dave [0:21:03]: We get you a Can badge or something.
Patrick [0:21:05]: Yeah.
Patrick [0:21:05]: Like, you know, show a hands everyone that's listening.
Patrick [0:21:08]: Like, how many times a week, Are you explaining a Po to somebody on finance?
Patrick [0:21:13]: Like yeah.
Patrick [0:21:15]: Can't.
Dave [0:21:16]: It comes up a lot.
Dave [0:21:17]: So the reason I wanted to ask you that questions is because I think...
Dave [0:21:20]: And I can say this as the host, but I see that most people when they are asked, marketers, we get very defensive.
Patrick [0:21:28]: Sure.
Patrick [0:21:28]: What do
Dave [0:21:28]: you mean?
Dave [0:21:28]: Of course, this is the bud.
Dave [0:21:29]: We get very defensive about our things and we don't understand how to communicate to the CFO and the finance team about these things.
Patrick [0:21:36]: The way that we did have recorded future and I'm using the same structure at BlueVoyant.
Patrick [0:21:41]: But You basically need to make your budget as small as possible.
Patrick [0:21:44]: You need to cut it up in as many ways as possible.
Patrick [0:21:47]: And so the easy way to do that is to cut it up by digital marketing, events So you should figure out what those key categories are.
Patrick [0:21:58]: And then you can also chop it up by region.
Patrick [0:22:00]: So then you can explain to yourself, you know, in Europe, we're gonna get this amount of event money to spend across this amount of events.
Patrick [0:22:10]: A lot of marketers missed the opportunity to kind of explain that high level structure of a budget, and then you keep getting smaller.
Patrick [0:22:18]: So you say, like, inside a digital, I've got ads.
Patrick [0:22:21]: I've got content s indication.
Patrick [0:22:23]: I've got sponsored x y and z.
Patrick [0:22:25]: And you explain that each one of these buckets behaves a little bit differently.
Patrick [0:22:30]: So I don't want to explain and defend every event that we're gonna do.
Patrick [0:22:36]: But what I wanna do is I wanna make sure that finance understands the type of events that I run.
Patrick [0:22:44]: So I do regional stuff, like, you know, Ga is analyst type of events.
Patrick [0:22:50]: Right.
Patrick [0:22:50]: And I call them backyard events.
Patrick [0:22:52]: And that's, like the rep in Kansas city is gonna do this for ten thousand dollars.
Patrick [0:22:56]: And you explain how those different buckets of money behave differently.
Patrick [0:23:00]: And I also try to use instead of, like, I know like talking about cost per lead or any of those, like, that level of metric.
Patrick [0:23:10]: What I like to do with finance, I'm gonna say, look, I took all of the marketing money that we spent in the last year, and I divided it by the number of new business opportunities that the company created.
Patrick [0:23:22]: So if you buy that marketing drives all of the pipeline and helps lift up all those different people trying to find business?
Patrick [0:23:30]: Okay.
Patrick [0:23:31]: So let's say that...
Dave [0:23:32]: And is that true?
Dave [0:23:33]: Is that your model and the company?
Dave [0:23:34]: Because I feel like this is where a lot of people argue over this about, like, well, what was marketing source and what was Salesforce, but maybe because you're doing this Ab Motion selling to enterprise.
Dave [0:23:43]: You're assuming that marketing job is sales enable heavily at this company.
Patrick [0:23:48]: Sure.
Patrick [0:23:48]: I do it both ways.
Patrick [0:23:49]: Like, I know the marketing number But I also have a position.
Patrick [0:23:53]: This is just a grounded belief of mine is that marketing should lift up all those channels.
Patrick [0:23:58]: Like, if you do great marketing, sales should have an easier time sourcing pipeline on their own behalf because more people have heard of you.
Patrick [0:24:06]: And that's kind of the mission of marketing.
Patrick [0:24:08]: Right?
Patrick [0:24:09]: Now what I like to do is, like, take that total amount of, like, net new opportunities.
Patrick [0:24:15]: And I've listened to all of your Dave Kellogg podcasts And he's an opportunity count guy not opportunity dollar guy.
Dave [0:24:23]: Sure.
Patrick [0:24:23]: So take the raw number of opportunities and divide that into the amount of money that you spent, and you'll come up with the average cost of an opportunity.
Patrick [0:24:31]: And the first time you look at it, like, the number will shock you, it will be way too high.
Patrick [0:24:36]: But then you work with finance and say, look, I think if you give me this amount of money next year, and let's say that cost opportunity number is, like, five thousand If I get that down to twenty five hundred, I can hit my contribution target.
Patrick [0:24:51]: And then you go out and you fix...
Dave [0:24:54]: Wait explain that if you can get it down.
Dave [0:24:56]: How do you drive that down?
Patrick [0:24:57]: Let's say that finance gives you a certain amount of money.
Patrick [0:25:00]: And if you use that average cost of opportunity, you're only gonna get halfway to that contribution goal for marketing.
Patrick [0:25:07]: But if you make that average cost per opportunity less.
Patrick [0:25:12]: So if you go from, like, five thousand twenty five hundred.
Dave [0:25:16]: So if you can be more efficient, you're gonna get more budget back to do fun stuff.
Patrick [0:25:20]: Be more efficient Yeah.
Patrick [0:25:21]: And finance will love that.
Patrick [0:25:22]: And then you come back, and I think what Tom really like, is that...
Patrick [0:25:26]: You know, that's a fun Math exercise.
Dave [0:25:28]: Sure.
Dave [0:25:28]: Well, but
Patrick [0:25:29]: then you come back and you apply that number to, like, a field marketing event that you're gonna go to.
Patrick [0:25:34]: You take the cost of the event, you do the math and you're like, hey, sales rep a, sales rep b, Bd c.
Patrick [0:25:40]: Yeah.
Patrick [0:25:41]: You spend ten thousand bucks.
Patrick [0:25:42]: We've gotta come back with three up No.
Dave [0:25:44]: It's really great because it it really helps with, like, the sticker shock of, like, I used to have to be like, hey, we wanna go spend, you know, a hundred thousand dollars on the sirius decision summit or whatever.
Dave [0:25:53]: And it was always like, a hundred grand, you know, from this person in this person and it's like, no.
Dave [0:25:58]: But if we just look at the opportunity math on this.
Dave [0:26:01]: Here's...
Dave [0:26:01]: Now, it's kind of a little bit of a...
Dave [0:26:04]: You kinda make your own bed and you have to land it though.
Dave [0:26:06]: Because if you better go to that event and generate those opportunities though.
Dave [0:26:09]: Right?
Dave [0:26:09]: Like, you have to create a presence that's gonna generate opportunities.
Patrick [0:26:13]: Yeah.
Patrick [0:26:13]: Totally...
Patrick [0:26:13]: And what you'll usually find is that, like, this event over performs and this one under performs.
Patrick [0:26:18]: Yeah.
Patrick [0:26:19]: And like...
Patrick [0:26:20]: But, I think what you'll would find is that if you can create that level of awareness and explanation with finance, it's like, yeah.
Patrick [0:26:27]: I get it.
Patrick [0:26:27]: We missed on this one thing.
Patrick [0:26:28]: Yeah.
Patrick [0:26:29]: Well, it's also seeing here your methodology.
Patrick [0:26:31]: Right?
Dave [0:26:32]: You're also smart for, like, getting people out of the weeds of, like, cost per lead on meta or something.
Dave [0:26:38]: Like, let us worry about that in our house.
Dave [0:26:40]: Like, I'm gonna tell you the overall mix and how we're gonna drive revenue for the company and we're gonna use them on, you know, I think that's why.
Patrick [0:26:48]: Because in enterprise to you, the partner stuff.
Patrick [0:26:50]: And if you're in enterprise, if you're an enterprise security, you're working with resell partners that money behaves much differently than other stuff.
Patrick [0:26:58]: Because that's where you have to say, like, but this ten thousand dollars is not your standard demand generation thing.
Patrick [0:27:04]: This is like, you know, I'm spending this ten thousand dollars to try to build a relationship.
Patrick [0:27:09]: With this partner person at person.
Dave [0:27:12]: What's the cadence for you, personally?
Dave [0:27:13]: How often are you meeting with the finance team?
Dave [0:27:15]: Who are you meeting with?
Dave [0:27:16]: Like...
Patrick [0:27:17]: We do pretty regular, like, checks on the budget just inside a marketing?
Patrick [0:27:22]: We're in a process of ref forecasting our budget for the second half of the year here at BlueVoyant.
Patrick [0:27:28]: But our recorded future where, I think the demand dimension budget, the growth budget that we were running a recorded future was between nine million dollars and ten million a year.
Patrick [0:27:38]: We had a strict finance partner that we worked with every week, taking a look at and the way that we built trust there, which was very productive for us.
Patrick [0:27:48]: It was, like, we tried to remove as much guess work as possible.
Patrick [0:27:51]: We have very straight line spreadsheet that said, here are all the things that are pending approval and how much money it adds up to.
Patrick [0:27:59]: Here are all the things that we've approved and how much money it adds up to.
Patrick [0:28:03]: And here's how much is left.
Patrick [0:28:05]: Then we would have that broken out in lots of small ways.
Patrick [0:28:09]: So we knew those three facts for every person on the team.
Patrick [0:28:12]: So if So and was over or So and was under, then you have, like, a sales manager and a marketer that you could go talk to about Why are we under why are we over?
Dave [0:28:24]: Tell me about the marketing Org of the future.
Dave [0:28:27]: You have some opinions on this.
Dave [0:28:28]: I'll remind you of a couple bullets here.
Dave [0:28:30]: Think small act big kill long term planning and act bigger than you are.
Dave [0:28:34]: That sounds like a guy who's close with Tom went.
Dave [0:28:37]: Give generalist good tools and direction, creativity matters and demand is experiencing another renaissance growth loops versus P.
Patrick [0:28:46]: Yeah.
Patrick [0:28:46]: I'll start with that last one.
Patrick [0:28:47]: And I think that this kinda goes back to your you know, how is security being disrupted by a lot of these agent first Ai security companies.
Patrick [0:28:55]: Like, all of these great Ai companies.
Patrick [0:28:57]: Like, if you remember, like, product like growth, it was like a free product or, like, a trial, Like, if you think back five or six years, we were all talking about this more now it's about, like, what's inside of the product that you could share with different people?
Patrick [0:29:10]: Like, if you get in and there's a really kick ass dashboard that shows x y and z.
Patrick [0:29:14]: How do you share that back out?
Patrick [0:29:16]: How do you make it super simple for people to share that back out with other members of the buying team or with other prospects.
Patrick [0:29:22]: And I think that, like, especially in security, it's tough in security in general to give somebody free access to a security tool.
Patrick [0:29:30]: Because, like, if you think back to like, the P days of Hubspot, is, like, you can create a free version of our Crm and create some deals and move things like their Trello cards.
Patrick [0:29:41]: Like, that was the free version of the Hubspot Crm.
Patrick [0:29:43]: It's a lot harder to spin up free versions of security software.
Patrick [0:29:47]: Because you need to integrate it, like, with how the business is running, and not a lot of people do that.
Patrick [0:29:52]: But when Ai companies security are really getting right, is how to share versions of the product out with other people.
Patrick [0:30:01]: Something that I think is, like long been hard in enterprise, but these Ai companies are getting right from, like, you know, the bottom up, they're building their product in a very shareable way in a way that a lot of these legacy companies aren't necessarily built.
Dave [0:30:17]: Yeah.
Dave [0:30:17]: And it was interesting, like, the early wave of Ai, people were, like, afraid to share stuff because they're worried about competitors seeing it, but I don't know.
Dave [0:30:24]: We live in the world where you can find anything?
Dave [0:30:26]: You can get all the answers now even easier than before?
Dave [0:30:29]: And it's like, what does that mean for product marketing?
Dave [0:30:31]: What does that mean for demand gen?
Dave [0:30:33]: You have to...
Patrick [0:30:34]: And it's like...
Patrick [0:30:34]: It's also in enterprise You know even enterprise security, but in enterprise because of the size of the deal in the relationship you're gonna have with the customer, it's also a big way to build trust.
Patrick [0:30:44]: There are a lot of Ai companies that have probably come out and they're really just dressed up nice looking agents.
Patrick [0:30:50]: But you actually want give something to somebody that they can use and try and see that's a big part of that early stage trust building with a prospect.
Patrick [0:30:59]: Can I think like, think small act big?
Patrick [0:31:02]: I mean, the annual plan, a quarterly plan, I did that when I first got to BlueVoyant because I wanted to show people how I thought.
Patrick [0:31:11]: I wanted to beat...
Patrick [0:31:12]: Like, I don't think that the executive team at BlueVoyant had a lot of exposure to marketing planning.
Patrick [0:31:17]: And marketing thinking and why it's valuable.
Patrick [0:31:20]: So I did annual planning really for, like, the of it.
Patrick [0:31:24]: Like, I wanted people to see themes and areas and metrics and behaviors that I expected.
Patrick [0:31:29]: But we've got the marketing team running on two weeks sprints we've got weekly team meetings?
Patrick [0:31:35]: It's really about, like, what can we get out the door against a major area that we wanna make progress on?
Dave [0:31:42]: What about killing long term planning?
Dave [0:31:44]: It's an interesting thought because we get locked into these things by the, you know, we're recording this at the end of July.
Dave [0:31:52]: Before you know it, it's gonna be the fall.
Dave [0:31:54]: Before you know it everyone's talking about budgets and planning for next year.
Dave [0:31:58]: And I love this idea, like, operating like a startup being small.
Dave [0:32:02]: Marketing is Tom went.
Dave [0:32:04]: We talk about this all the time.
Dave [0:32:05]: It's like, things just changed so quickly, and I wanna be able to operate where, like, dude, if we have a good idea, tomorrow.
Dave [0:32:12]: I wanna be able to, like, blow up the plan and go do that totally.
Dave [0:32:16]: But there's also some level of, like, having to lock into a plan to finance and the company, like, maybe you have a better way of explaining it than I do.
Patrick [0:32:23]: I'll, like, where I've had a lot of success is basically having areas or themes that I'm just gonna bang on all year.
Patrick [0:32:31]: Like, I can't tell you the specific things I'm gonna do.
Patrick [0:32:34]: Yeah.
Patrick [0:32:34]: I think specific kill marketing.
Patrick [0:32:36]: I just think, like, the more specific you try to be, about things that are coming or the way things are gonna be, like, inherently, that's all gonna kind of blow up on us a little bit.
Patrick [0:32:45]: Because you don't know the product launch that's coming next quarter.
Patrick [0:32:48]: Maybe you know about the product launches that's coming in next year, but something's coming next quarter.
Patrick [0:32:52]: You don't even know about it.
Patrick [0:32:53]: So how do you create space and how do you create, like, a mindset on marketing that allows people to jump right into that.
Patrick [0:33:00]: So, I've got something that's on our, like, annual marketing plan for the year is, like, a statement that's act bigger than we are.
Patrick [0:33:08]: And anything can fall into that?
Dave [0:33:10]: I love that.
Patrick [0:33:11]: Like if anything can fall into that.
Patrick [0:33:13]: I might be talking about how I wanna run a research report, or I might be talking about how we to buy one of those tools that allows everybody to post on Linkedin really easily.
Patrick [0:33:22]: But, like, the tactics in this specifics melt away, and people start thinking about oh, pat, Hey, This is one of those things that will help us act bigger.
Patrick [0:33:30]: So you get people who are thinking creatively about marketing, taking ideas that they're passionate about putting it into a system for you.
Patrick [0:33:38]: If you're confident in what that direction should be.
Dave [0:33:43]: Yeah.
Dave [0:33:43]: I think people are gonna get a lot out of this because just to how you think about operating finance, how you think about seeing the bigger picture seeing the field being able to push back on some of these things especially in the enterprise, I really like that.
Dave [0:33:56]: Okay.
Dave [0:33:56]: I can finally get to the number one question.
Dave [0:33:59]: I have two things here.
Dave [0:34:00]: We're gonna use them both to wrap up.
Dave [0:34:02]: There's a line in our prep doc that says in bold letters, I am responsible for your career want kind of tell story good segue into Hubspot and then I have a Hubspot thing I wanna talk to you about after you...
Dave [0:34:14]: Tell me, what's the story about this?
Patrick [0:34:16]: So that was a typo.
Patrick [0:34:17]: I'm not responsible for your career.
Patrick [0:34:18]: I'm responsible for all your success.
Patrick [0:34:20]: Okay.
Patrick [0:34:22]: What
Dave [0:34:23]: So...
Dave [0:34:23]: Sorry.
Dave [0:34:24]: Claude.
Dave [0:34:24]: Don't make that mistake again if you're looking...
Patrick [0:34:26]: That's five mistakes happen.
Patrick [0:34:27]: Okay.
Patrick [0:34:28]: So I was at Fox hubspot from two thousand ten to two thousand...
Patrick [0:34:31]: I think, like, end of two thousand seventeen.
Patrick [0:34:33]: I think you showed up around two thousand fourteen.
Patrick [0:34:36]: Do I have that right?
Dave [0:34:38]: Yes.
Dave [0:34:38]: That's great.
Dave [0:34:39]: Memory because there's is, you know, twenty seven thousand people that have I've worked at that company, and I had hair at the time.
Dave [0:34:44]: So, yep, twenty fourteen.
Dave [0:34:45]: U.
Patrick [0:34:46]: Alright.
Patrick [0:34:46]: So I started in two thousand ten.
Patrick [0:34:48]: I did my first year.
Patrick [0:34:49]: I was on basically the customer success team And then I pitched a job to Mike Volt being and kept for a partner marketing role, and I got onto the marketing team.
Patrick [0:34:57]: And I did a couple of years as my grandmother would call it.
Patrick [0:35:01]: I just a long arm paper hanger for a couple of years.
Patrick [0:35:03]: Where I just tried to do everything myself, you know, stayed up way too late Yeah.
Patrick [0:35:07]: But really just trying to do anything that that partner marketing team needed...
Dave [0:35:11]: Different time of your life.
Dave [0:35:12]: No kids.
Dave [0:35:12]: Nothing but free time.
Patrick [0:35:14]: Nothing but free time.
Patrick [0:35:15]: Late nights and free time.
Patrick [0:35:16]: So around two thousand thirteen ish, that's when we started building a partner marketing team.
Patrick [0:35:21]: And, like, a field marketing team to align with all the new sellers and all the new, like, playbook that were place at Hubspot.
Patrick [0:35:28]: So I got two people to join the team right off the bat, but I recruited them directly from the customer success team.
Patrick [0:35:34]: And that was kinda like, that was a core value Hotspot hubspot.
Patrick [0:35:37]: People were just flying around left and right.
Patrick [0:35:39]: Like I I'm gonna go from that team to that team.
Patrick [0:35:40]: Like, people on support would be on product, like six months later.
Patrick [0:35:44]: But I became the poster child for the internal mobility policy.
Patrick [0:35:48]: Which just sounds severe.
Patrick [0:35:50]: Right?
Patrick [0:35:51]: So I got corporate.
Patrick [0:35:52]: Yeah.
Patrick [0:35:53]: After I hired, I think you know this guy but a the dr.
Dave [0:35:56]: Sure.
Patrick [0:35:57]: After I hired A into my second role, I had a meeting with the guy that was running customer success, and he's like, look, we're site that you're hiring Alan to the team.
Dave [0:36:06]: But you're gonna kill me Dude.
Dave [0:36:07]: Dude you.
Patrick [0:36:07]: You can't just keep grabbing people off of customer success.
Patrick [0:36:10]: And I was like, oh, yeah.
Patrick [0:36:11]: I understand.
Patrick [0:36:11]: And I honestly, I'm, like, no idea.
Patrick [0:36:13]: Right?
Patrick [0:36:14]: And then, like, the next day on the company wiki message board There was a page that was called internal mobility policy.
Patrick [0:36:21]: So I really felt, like I was like, oh, man, I was the straw that broke the camels back on this one.
Patrick [0:36:26]: So, like, my name came up in an executive meeting policy.
Patrick [0:36:30]: Sure.
Patrick [0:36:31]: Then, like, a fast forward, maybe eighteen months, you show up at Hubspot, You're running podcasts, things like that.
Patrick [0:36:37]: We had a job that was gonna be a marketing manager for the enterprise sales team.
Patrick [0:36:43]: And you came and asked me about it.
Patrick [0:36:44]: And by letter of the law, the internal mobility policy, you haven't been at Hubspot for a year.
Patrick [0:36:52]: So yeah qualify.
Patrick [0:36:53]: Yep.
Patrick [0:36:53]: And because we didn't want people to be surprised, I needed to go tell your manager that you were interested.
Patrick [0:36:59]: So I did all those things.
Patrick [0:37:01]: Yeah.
Patrick [0:37:02]: Yeah.
Patrick [0:37:02]: I think three months later you left for drift.
Dave [0:37:04]: That's crazy.
Dave [0:37:05]: This is not it's not what I thought you're gonna say.
Dave [0:37:07]: Wow.
Dave [0:37:09]: You just like...
Patrick [0:37:11]: It's valid.
Patrick [0:37:11]: Like a reasonable totally
Dave [0:37:13]: totally valid.
Dave [0:37:14]: This is not a bullshit story.
Dave [0:37:15]: There's maybe the only other two people maybe a handful of people know the story here.
Dave [0:37:21]: But, yes, basically, like, I had always wanted to work at Hubspot because I found out that, like, don't know.
Dave [0:37:27]: I didn't know what my purpose, You become a grown up and you have to have a job.
Dave [0:37:30]: Sure.
Dave [0:37:31]: And I wasn't good at anything except like, I like sports and working out.
Dave [0:37:35]: And then it's like, oh, dude, you gotta get a job, and so I tried to go into sales.
Dave [0:37:40]: Everyone who doesn't know what they wanna do goes into sales, and I was terrible at it.
Dave [0:37:44]: Eventually, I got a job in marketing.
Dave [0:37:46]: I got a P agency internship.
Dave [0:37:48]: They're the only people that would could hire me.
Dave [0:37:49]: And I found out that, like, there's just company called Hubspot, and they, like, made it cool to be a marketing person.
Patrick [0:37:55]: Yeah.
Patrick [0:37:55]: Hey
Dave [0:37:56]: you guys were, like, putting out cool content.
Dave [0:37:58]: You had these events.
Dave [0:37:59]: You were, like, here's how to, you know, justify your spend.
Dave [0:38:02]: Here's how to make people love marketing, and I always wanted to work there, and I was at this company called P, and this was the the one of it.
Dave [0:38:09]: I worked there twice.
Dave [0:38:10]: I came back as a CMO and they got acquired later, but they ran out of money the first time, I had this podcast on the side called Tech in Boston, Mike Volt and Joe Cher and kip them, they wanted to start a podcast.
Dave [0:38:21]: They said, hey, why don't you go get Dave, let's go do the podcast in here.
Dave [0:38:24]: Well, finally got into Hubspot, which to me felt like, I got on the Patriots.
Dave [0:38:28]: Right?
Dave [0:38:28]: Yeah And I felt like, I'm on the patriots.
Dave [0:38:32]: I can be a five tool player, and I'm holding the...
Dave [0:38:35]: I'm the holder is how I felt.
Dave [0:38:37]: Right?
Dave [0:38:38]: And so I'm like, let me find another job.
Dave [0:38:40]: This is great.
Dave [0:38:40]: And they're like, no you can't.
Dave [0:38:42]: And now as a owner operator, you know, former marketing I understand why You can't just let people do whatever I really want inside the company.
Dave [0:38:49]: But then, you know, some stuff happened that summer and a bunch of the execs, like, end of up leaving.
Dave [0:38:53]: And I didn't get the job inside the company.
Dave [0:38:55]: Anyway I was, I wanna do this anymore, and I I walked across the street and I interviewed for the job at drift and, you know?
Patrick [0:39:02]: In my head, I followed the rules of the internal mobility policy.
Dave [0:39:05]: Sure.
Patrick [0:39:06]: And it just pushed you over the engine you just just left.
Dave [0:39:09]: I didn't even know that.
Dave [0:39:10]: That's crazy.
Dave [0:39:10]: Imagine a alternate reality though.
Dave [0:39:12]: What if I had gotten that job?
Dave [0:39:13]: I would have generated so much even more pipeline for you, and you would even have a bigger house.
Patrick [0:39:19]: No.
Patrick [0:39:19]: That's right.
Patrick [0:39:19]: I would have all success.
Patrick [0:39:20]: Look I would be running at six.
Patrick [0:39:23]: You said six.
Dave [0:39:25]: Oh my god.
Dave [0:39:25]: That's a good joke.
Dave [0:39:26]: What type of sig?
Dave [0:39:27]: I'm sitting...
Dave [0:39:27]: I'm gonna, that's a hundred degrees in this a little booth that I
Patrick [0:39:30]: mean well.
Dave [0:39:30]: Yeah.
Dave [0:39:30]: Dude this is awesome.
Dave [0:39:31]: Patrick Shea.
Dave [0:39:31]: Thank you, man.
Dave [0:39:32]: Thank you for doing this podcast.
Dave [0:39:33]: I appreciate it.
Dave [0:39:34]: Look, if you listen to this podcast and you're listen to.
Dave [0:39:36]: Now Want you to go find him on Linkedin because there's gonna be a whole plethora of people that listen to this that can relate to what you're saying about being in this type of partner, Microsoft ecosystem type of company, being an enterprise cybersecurity company, and I love how you talked about thinking through finance and talking through marketing that way.
Dave [0:39:53]: So I can't wait for a couple weeks from now when you send me a screenshot and be like, dude.
Dave [0:39:56]: People actually listen to your podcast, and I got a bunch of messages.
Dave [0:39:59]: So it's good to see you.
Dave [0:40:01]: Thank you for coming on the show, and I'll see
Patrick [0:40:03]: you soon.
Dave [0:40:04]: Hey.
Dave [0:40:08]: Thanks for listening to this podcast.
Dave [0:40:10]: If you like this episode.
Dave [0:40:11]: You know what?
Dave [0:40:12]: I'm not even gonna ask you to subscribe and leave a review because I don't really care about that.
Dave [0:40:17]: Have something better for you.
Dave [0:40:18]: So We've built the number one private community for B2B marketers at Exit Five, and you can go and check that out instead of leaving a rating a review.
Dave [0:40:26]: Go check it out right now on our website exitfive.com.
Dave [0:40:29]: Our mission at Exit Five is to help you grow your career in B2B marketing.
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Dave [0:40:37]: There's nearly five thousand members now in our community, People are in their posting every day asking questions about things like marketing planning, ideas, inspiration, asking questions and getting feedback from your peers building your own network of marketers who are doing the same thing you are so you to have a peer group, or maybe just venting about your boss when you need to get in there and get something off your chest.
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