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Does achieving gender equality only benefit women? Are gender quotas thwarting meritocracy? Are women more risk averse than men? If you think you know the answers to these questions, then think again! Busted is an audio podcast series that busts prominent myths surrounding gender and the economy by teaming up with leading experts in the field. We uncover the origins of each myth and give you the tools to bust each myth yourself!
Busted is a GATE audio series production from the Institute for Gender and the Economy.
These multifaceted aspects of climate change will heighten the risks and uncertainties and it will also compound and intensify the growing inequalities. Not just in terms of income and wealth now, but in the ability and capacity for households, individuals, communities, and countries to be resilient.
Carmina Ravanera:The global climate crisis is a pressing issue for all of us. Rising temperatures and sea levels, natural disasters like fires, floods, and typhoons, and environmental destruction wreak havoc on the entire planet. But it's a myth that the climate crisis presents an equal threat to everyone. Existing vulnerabilities and marginalization mean that some people experience the effects more acutely than others. And to really understand this disparity, we need to explore how closely our economies are tied to climate.
Carmina Ravanera:In this episode, we'll discuss why the climate crisis is an equity issue and how we can apply that knowledge to build more resilient, equitable, and sustainable economies that center the well-being of both people and the planet. I'm Carmina Ravonera, senior research associate at GATE.
Dr. Sonia Kang:And I'm doctor Sonia Kang, academic director at GATE. Welcome to Busted, our podcast that debunks myths that hold back progress on equality. Today, we'll be talking about why we need to broaden the conversation about the climate crisis to understand the impact of inequality. Although the climate crisis affects everyone on the planet, inequality determines who experiences the brunt of it. So let's get into it.
Dr. Sonia Kang:Who did you speak to for this episode?
Carmina Ravanera:I spoke to doctor Lewis Williams and doctor Maria Floro, who have studied the climate crisis from different backgrounds and perspectives. I'll let them introduce themselves.
Dr. Lewis Williams:So I was just saying that I'm actually I'm originally from Aotearoa New Zealand and I'm descendant of my tribe here is Ngati Rangi of the Tauranga Moana. I'm of Maori descent. I'm also telling you that it was Welsh, German and Scottish descent. And then just a little bit about that our sacred mountain here is Mawal which our sacred mountain and that the waka that my ancestors came to Aotearoa on was called the Matatua and I told you my iwi or my tribe and who I am that I also I should have done this before but mentioned an important ancestor. So the reason that this is all relevant to climate change, reason that indigenous perspectives, the reason that I wanted to introduce myself in that way was to let you know that there are many other beings and aspects that make me up.
Dr. Lewis Williams:I don't stand alone and that these are my lineages and these are sacred mountain is of course an ancestor to us. These are my ancestors and this is the land that I actually stand on. I actually also work in Ontario at Western University and so I'm an associate professor of Indigenous Studies and also joint appointed to the Department of Geography and Environmental Studies.
Dr. Maria Floro:I'm a Professor Emeritus of Economics at American University. I'm based here in Washington, D. C. And currently, I'm actually working with Ito Peng of the University of Toronto in the care economist in context, helping them in particular with the macro modeling of care for a few countries, several countries that are participating in that project. So, and I'm also a member of IABE and very active and involved grandmother to two wonderful grandchildren.
Dr. Sonia Kang:So let's challenge this myth right off the bat. Why does the climate crisis not affect everyone in the same way?
Carmina Ravanera:First off, we know that the high income countries that contribute the most to the climate crisis aren't affected nearly as much as lower income countries.
Dr. Maria Floro:We know now that rich and poor countries, households of every set in every setting are affected one way or the other. But the evidence is very clear. It's the vulnerable countries, small island states, countries which have relatively greater exposure to the climate shocks and stresses, and at the same time have few resources to recover from the impact of these shocks and stresses. We know that they are very vulnerable, and they are mostly affected.
Dr. Sonia Kang:Right. And then even within countries, populations that are already marginalized are more likely to face impacts and shocks from the climate crisis.
Dr. Maria Floro:But within countries, you have vulnerable groups women, low income households, marginalized communities whose livelihood and housing and access to water and other basic services are either disrupted or destroyed. They are coping in ways that further undermine their abilities to deal with future shocks. They have to sell their assets. They have to withdraw children from school and even move and migrate elsewhere. Countries that don't have adequate natural disaster preparedness plans and have weak social protection and safety nets for their citizens make the situation for vulnerable groups in their countries even worse.
Dr. Lewis Williams:You know, we're certainly not in a level playing field, so you've only got to look around you to see where people are actually start off from to know that, one, that things are not equal, and two, that climate emergency is only gonna, exacerbate those those inequalities. There's many ways that these axes of power and culture and inequity, you know, and collide in terms of climate crisis.
Carmina Ravanera:Lewis talked to me about some specific examples of the impacts in indigenous communities, like ongoing displacement and food and water insecurity caused by natural disasters. And those impacts are connected to colonial history.
Dr. Lewis Williams:So for example, was just, as I was doing a little bit of prep for this last night, I once again looked at the, there's an internal displacement monitoring center and monitors internal displacements. So in Canada alone during 2023 I think it was there was a total of one hundred and ninety zero displacements right due to often due to climate change or due to something and thirty zero of those were were displacement of indigenous people. So indigenous peoples in Canada make up roughly 5% of the population yet 16% of internal displacements affect indigenous peoples in Canada and the most when I was looking at that that bit of research most of those internal displacements were due to fire. So you know we all know a huge and then flooding was the next cause. So back And in I was in Saskatoon a wee while ago in Saskatchewan and I was talking to a Cree friend of mine and they've had terrible fires.
Dr. Lewis Williams:She's from Stanley Mission and they've had terrible fires up in the Lorange area which is just south of Stanley Mission, right? But that's completely wiped out all their berry foraging opportunities, you know, I mean that's just a very small example has heaps of other impacts in terms of infrastructure, you know long term impacts but that's a big impact on her family okay so you know you won't be able to go all the trees ahead it you're not going to be able to collect any at the very harvesting time which is in the late summer August you know come August, July, August, September you're not going be able to do any of that activity around there. You've got to go far further north. So there'd be a lot of people they wouldn't be able to travel to travel there and it's just talking in terms of indigenous communities it's not only so it's not just okay the event happens then right it's the ongoing impacts of displacement you know, and so for some communities it could be several years. There's some communities haven't been able to move back to their places or when they do these areas still under flooding.
Dr. Lewis Williams:And so if you look at the whole colonial history in terms of indigenous communities being forced off their typical migratory lands and being pushed onto less desirable land and then often not even having safe drinking water in the first place.
Carmina Ravanera:Also, if we think about neighborhoods in urban areas, we can see how people who have fewer resources face the everyday effects of changing climate. Low income neighborhoods are less likely to have trees and shade, for instance. Lewis told me about an example in Toronto, types of housing.
Dr. Lewis Williams:Really tangible example in Toronto, been a lot of flooding in Toronto and temperatures are increasing. And in terms of basement apartments, basement apartments, well guess what? They're going to be the first ones getting flooded. Who's more likely to occupy a basement apartment because of income? Offered as women.
Carmina Ravanera:So we can see how people who are already economically and socially vulnerable are more likely to face impacts from the climate crisis. In addition to that, Maria is doing work on the climate crisis and care systems, how the changing climate is affecting so many forms of care childcare, eldercare, and health care, to name a few. We already talked a lot about care on this podcast and how it's a crucial gender inequality issue because women do most of the care work around the world.
Dr. Maria Floro:Climate change in particular impinges on care systems in multifaceted ways. It heightens the need for care in terms of sudden illnesses and unexpected disabilities due to climate stressors and shock. So for example, heat waves and natural disaster, extreme weather events like wildfires that you have in Canada and strong typhoons, super typhoons that we have in countries like The Philippines have increased the amount of unpaid work of women. It also reduces access to important inputs for care, such as water, food, and safe shelter. So it brings about new challenges that undermine the availability of family caregivers to provide care.
Dr. Maria Floro:If you need water, for example, for somebody who's ill, now you have to fetch the water farther away because of the severe drought and and reduced water supply near your house or near your community, but also access to care support services through damages in physical and social care infrastructures, whether it be daycare, hospitals, primary health care clinics, and so forth. Furthermore, if you think about beyond just the needs of the household and the family caregivers in them, And you look at the community, climate change can also lead to breakdown or recomposition of traditional units of caregiving. At the same, that includes the community. So in many rural communities, in communities of different race and ethnicity, there's heavy reliance on informal social networks. Families and neighbors and friends can help during times of emergency.
Dr. Maria Floro:But we will, I'll talk a little bit about this later on, but you will also see that when these communities break down because of people migrating elsewhere, you create new situation in which meeting care needs are particularly difficult with increase in displaced persons settlements and refugee camps. I looked at, for example, how the refugee camps and displaced persons settlements deal with the need for care because children, especially children, end up spending years in these camps. And the challenge on how to provide them care and at the same time education is particularly challenging. We also know access to health care remains challenging to hundreds of millions of people around the world. Inequalities persist in these care systems with disadvantaged populations having lower level of access to health and related services.
Dr. Maria Floro:So, the multifaceted impact of climate change will only intensify these needs. And those without access to the care services they needed and the resources, They will be the ones unable to recover and be able to be resilient. So climate change will continue to test the capacities of care systems, and they reverberate in every single type of care arrangement.
Carmina Ravanera:The changes in temperature and rainfall, the hurricanes and typhoons and heat waves, the flooding, are bringing all these challenges to the fullest. So the climate crisis means the need for care increases, especially as populations age. It also means that vulnerable people are less likely to have access to care. On top of that, as women's unpaid care work increases, they're more likely to withdraw from the paid labor force, which has economic impacts.
Dr. Sonia Kang:Right. Basic human rights, including water, shelter, and food, are all affected by the climate crisis. Indigenous, low income, and other marginalized communities already feel these impacts. The gendered impacts are also clear. Our systems of care, which are so important to healthy societies, are already stretched to their limits, meaning that the women who care are reaching their limits too.
Dr. Sonia Kang:And the climate crisis exacerbates this.
Carmina Ravanera:Exactly. And Lewis emphasized how we have to think intersectionally about the climate crisis. She shared an example about Inuit women's experiences.
Dr. Lewis Williams:Up in the North for Inuit people, and I cannot remember the name of this particular community, but in terms of food security, so with the changing conditions and the melting of the ice, the the quality of the seal meat and the seal fur is not what it was. So not only has the quality of the seal fur impacted some of women's traditional activities but we also know that when there's less food around that women that in terms of how women are social socialized that that of course they're they're the ones that are first going to be the first going without food and so so it's actually these statistics there that say in terms of the gendered impacts of climate change that women have higher rates of food insecurity than men. And then also because the lower so also that's a gendered behaviour. You know and then also the fact of having lower incomes and less resources to actually, try and live the best that they can with with climate emergency.
Carmina Ravanera:In other words, gender, indigeneity, social class, and other social identities intersect when it comes to experiencing the climate crisis. As well, Lewis discussed queer communities and how they and other marginalized communities not only have less access to resources, but also are excluded from decision making.
Dr. Lewis Williams:There's not a lot of research out on the impacts of queer communities at the moment. But you've only got to put two and two together to realize that one, you have less resources to cope. Two, you are more likely to be excluded and marginalised from communities from from the infrastructures of help and and these you know stigma works all the time and so you're you're less likely to receive you're one of you're probably going to be one of the last ones to receive help and two and then three the whole aspect of procedural justice your voice your voices they're not going to be at that table when it when it comes to making decisions around climate emergency. You know, so the same thing with people of different abilities or if you want to call it disabilities, I call it different abilities. That you're going to get that that same those same cascading impacts of climate emergency.
Dr. Sonia Kang:So these are all such important examples of how huge of a role inequality plays and how people experience crisis. It also shows us how climate care and social economic and political inequality are all linked together. But I wanna turn to solutions and talk about what we can do to improve our response to the climate crisis.
Carmina Ravanera:Right. So one of the things that Lewis mentioned was the lack of representation of indigenous and indigenous communities when it comes to who's at the table making climate policy. Indigiqueer folks are already at the front lines of environmental justice. Our policy landscape needs to engage with marginalized communities, understanding that they have important knowledge about our planet.
Dr. Lewis Williams:Because the mainstream queer community does not have in any way the deep earth centered relationality perspective that Indigiqueer communities have. So Indigiqueer communities are far more likely for a start to have an Indigenous environmental justice perspective, right? Which which not only talks about human right, human rights, but it actually centres the agency and the responsibilities of of all beings. You know I always argue the thing is about you know we we know that so we that the environment is actually is actually queer. That the natural world is is actually queer because it doesn't stick with binary genders, right?
Dr. Lewis Williams:It doesn't stick with so called heteronormative activity, ways of being, yeah. And I always argue that to be the Indigiqueer people, right have had to absolutely because of you know when colonisation happened and that binary and that the the imposition of heteropatriarchy and you know the the stamping of those binary ways onto people. You know either man or either a woman there's you know there's nothing there's nothing in between. You know in Digi Queer people have absolutely had to swim against that current and I and no know the I think the the queerness of the natural world really deep in their beings in in a way that I that I argue that I think most you know binary or heteronormative people would not know. Also, think that there is some of the research that I've done in terms of fluidity across genders.
Dr. Lewis Williams:I think that then there's more skills of adaptability. People are not stuck in like specific roles of men, women. So I think there's more fluidity and plasticity in terms of adaptive responses. And you know, think there'd be it'd be a heck of a lot more we would find out if those if we get those voices to to the table and you know what I think is it's great that the mainstream queer community have been you know putting out, you know beginning to make their voices heard, and and it would be really great to see if some of that energy could go into amplifying the voices of Indigenous queer peoples you know many of whom are you know at the front lines of climate emergency work and land defending.
Carmina Ravanera:We also need to stop thinking of short term economic gains as a main goal. Lewis mentioned that discourse and legislation such as Bill C5 five that support boosting Canada's economy by fast tracking projects such as pipelines are having a detrimental effect on climate and indigenous rights.
Dr. Lewis Williams:Can emotionally, I can and to a certain as a small degree, logically I can see you know why why these men are thinking oh my god we've gotta boost economies a Canada's economy and you know extract the hell out of the earth. It's so short term and it is so just so uncreative and it is so exploitative of you know existing inequities and it is just such the opposite of indigenous environmental justice. And I saw that Amnesty International put out a report three weeks ago, I think, saying that really indigenous rights in Canada have been rolled back in the last while.
Dr. Sonia Kang:Right. Representation and who's heard when it comes to climate crisis should be a priority. And we don't have to trade off well-being for the planet with a resilient economy. That's short term thinking. Our economies will actually be more resilient if they consider people and the planet in the long term.
Carmina Ravanera:I also talked to Maria about how climate policy needs more coordinated, flexible solutions, including public investment in care and financing the systems of vulnerable countries who are most impacted.
Dr. Maria Floro:The resilience of a care system depends on its ability to successfully adapt to challenging as well as rapidly changing situation. So any design of policies to address this, the climate as well as care needs, They should be brought and broadened up. I mean, agendas and climate agendas should be broad enough in scope. So you can't just have one solution or standalone solution. You cannot have solutions that are fragmented.
Dr. Maria Floro:They have to be well coordinated, but they also have to be flexible and compliant to different contexts and setting, because the impact of climate and the type of care arrangement to meet the care needs of households and communities vary from one setting to the other. So that's very important. It has to be flexible and compliant to different contexts and settings. Now that said, I'll start with the government. The government had the obligation to ensure quality of care for all.
Dr. Maria Floro:I see that as an important obligation of the government, regardless of the care for all, meaning regardless of economic status, race, and ethnicity. Therefore, we need for governments to come up with policies to meet this obligation. They have to be able to accept that their role is fundamental for providing a high level of coordination between health and social and care services. The development of gender aware care integrated policies, including not just care policies or social policies, but also macroeconomic policies, are vital in regard to macroeconomic policies, in particular, to mobilize and allocate adequate resources to address the socioeconomic disparities existing in the country in order to act for the disadvantaged and the marginalized and vulnerable groups to access quality care services. And therefore, we need that adequate physical space to meet their care needs.
Dr. Maria Floro:Public investment in care is essential but not sufficient. We also need strong regulatory framework for private care service provisioning. They are essential in transitioning to a resilient care system or to developing a resilient care system and transitioning to a sustainable economy. Because we know the seemingly abundant supply of care workers, both paid and unpaid, is rapidly changing. Household and care service providers are really stretched and there's and we know that there's shortage of them.
Dr. Maria Floro:Both in the paid care services, shortage of care workers, and and we know also that the unpaid caregivers are also stretched to the max. Now, that said, raising funds among developed countries to finance adaptation and mitigation strategies and to help vulnerable countries affected by climate change is important, but it's not sufficient. The vital importance of childcare and eldercare and other forms of care and the impact of climate on this care system must be included in the climate finance discussion. So raising money is important, but we need to integrate the impact of climate on the care system in the climate finance discussion since it is an essential part of resilience building.
Carmina Ravanera:Something else that Maria emphasized is that policies that address other forms of inequality, like gender equity policies focused on parental leave and community based care, will actually help how the climate crisis is experienced unequally. In other words, if we address existing inequalities, that will help those who are most impacted.
Dr. Maria Floro:The cost of social care provisioning can be reduced without undermining the quality of care by having policies that encourage co responsibilities of women and men and promote a renegotiation of responsibilities within households, leading to a more equitable division of care labor. So if more members of the household, particularly the men, take on the share of care responsibilities, the demand for care support outside the household will be reduced. What are we talking about in terms of policies? Well, this is giving support to male childcare and eldercare and sick caregivers through employment policies that promote paternity and family lives without loss of time or taking flexible work arrangements or limits to work hours. This also involves policies that promote diversity and challenging stereotypes.
Dr. Maria Floro:Know, and and go and at the same time, having government support and incentive to local communities and employers so that community based peer groups can provide also affordable quality care service provision. So there are many layers and many types of policies that can address the issue of building a resilient care system.
Dr. Sonia Kang:That makes sense. Again, it shows how everything is connected. If we have more equitable social structures, they become more resilient to shocks. When people don't have access to resources and infrastructure, they become more vulnerable to emergencies. We can see how policies for affordable and accessible housing and food could similarly help communities cope with the climate crisis.
Carmina Ravanera:Exactly. So I want to end on a note of hope here, which is that we can be creative in our solutions rather than sticking to the same old ways of working, which haven't done much to help the planet.
Dr. Lewis Williams:Yeah, we've got to be a lot more. Yeah, I have a lot more foresight and creativity and I teach climate. I teach a course at Western University called climate culture and indigenous geographies. And and basically I'm looking at the culture and climate but then I but it's a lot more about how is climate emergency impacting indigenous peoples but also what are indigenous approaches to addressing climate crisis and one of the things I really try and get my students to do is to come from a place of love rather than a place of fear. Love for Papatuanuku or love for Aki, love for the earth and to move to from a to a place of creative agency right and you know in terms of and to be really aware of their positionalities and their disciplinary training when they're considering ways forward in terms of climate emergency.
Dr. Sonia Kang:So if I heard someone talking about climate change as if it affects everyone equally, what's one thing I could say to bust this myth?
Carmina Ravanera:Here's what our experts had to say.
Dr. Lewis Williams:One thing I'd say is look around you. Look around you. Is there a level playing field already? No. What do you think climate emergency is going to do to I would just say look around you, no such thing as a level playing field.
Dr. Lewis Williams:Climate emergency is going to make that even tippier. And I think, you know, I think if people can just bring up one tangible example, one example because things get pretty heated in these discussions right and you know these days where a lot of people are doing it tough. There's a lot of compassion around but sometimes it's hard for people to see that maybe things are really difficult for someone else across the street who doesn't have as much as they do and I really think like if you can tell actually a simple story, a simple tangible example. Those those things really you know reach people's hearts you know and we've got all the facts and figures. We don't need a lot of other research You know, it's really reaching people's hearts and then their minds in that order, I think.
Dr. Maria Floro:The crisis provides a mirror. It provides a clear reflection of where humanity is at the moment. And that mirror is showing us a highly unequal world of opportunities, a highly unequal world of haves and have nots, a highly unequal world of the capacity to recover from shocks and stresses. So unless we address the structural inequalities and environmental degradation collectively, the crisis also shows us what future our children and grandchildren will have, and the kind of world they will inherit and grapple with.
Dr. Sonia Kang:So you could bring up some of the many examples that Maria and Lewis have shared in this episode, from food insecurity and shelter to healthcare and childcare. The climate crisis is happening in a highly unequal world. And that means it's going to affect us unequally as well. But that doesn't mean things can't change. As our experts have talked about, policies that center the needs of marginalized communities around the world, as well as the long term resilience of our planet and people could make a big difference.
Carmina Ravanera:And with that, this myth is busted.
Dr. Sonia Kang:Make sure to hit subscribe so you don't miss what's coming next. We'll be back soon with a new episode.
Carmina Ravanera:In the meantime, happy myth busting. GATE's Busted podcast is made possible by generous support from BMO. If you liked this episode, please rate and subscribe to Busted. You can also find more thought provoking podcasts from the Institute for Gender and the Economy by searching Gate Audio wherever you find your podcasts. Thanks for tuning in.