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When Donald Trump won the 2016 election, Mississippi dad Sanford Johnson vowed he'd do whatever it took to preserve democracy in America. So, he did what any organized, practical dad would do: he made a spreadsheet. And what a spreadsheet!
Host: Mohan Sivaloganathan
Co-Producer: Howie Caspe
National Head, Brand and Content Strategy: Peter Gaston
Creators & Guests
Host
Producer
What is The Dads for Kamala Podcast?
Dads for Kamala is a diverse, unified, national volunteer organization of Dads taking action to secure the best vision of the future for our children. On our podcast, hosted by Mohan Sivaloganathan, we share a spotlight on dads making big moves, as they relate to the 2024 election and issues at the front of voters' minds, particularly through the lens of fatherhood.
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Greetings, friends. I'm Mohan Sivaloganathan, and welcome to the Dads for Kamala podcast. One of my favorite experiences is when I'm out with my son, I could be participating in a superhero game. I could be managing one of his meltdowns. But then I see another dad who looks at me, eye to eye.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:It just gives me a nod of approval. It's that moment between dads where we know exactly what the other person is experiencing, and we recognize we are a part of something bigger than ourselves. Here on the Dads for Kamala podcast, we spotlight the stories of dads who are breaking down barriers and stereotypes as we collectively write a new story for the country. Today, we welcome Sanford Johnson, a man who exudes big dad energy. In any given day, Sanford could be revolutionizing the education system or delivering world class barbecue to his kids.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:Now what you all should know is that Sanford and I have a lot of connections that we'll explore a little bit more in this conversation. And I think perhaps the most important is I think we develop our strongest bond through a shared love for karaoke. So maybe the next time we do one of these conversations or interviews, it'll be in a karaoke bar somewhere, but we'll spare y'all that artistic glory for today. Sanford, welcome to the show.
Sanford Johnson:Man, it's good to hear from you. I I don't know whether we should do some, Clarence Carter or we could do some, his Sir Mix a Lot, like, whichever direction we wanna take it. It's cool.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:I mean, what a testament to the dynamism of dads that we could do both. Right? Absolutely. We do not have to choose. Right.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:Oh, Sanford, I think to kick off. So I know that you're a sports guy. So imagine if there was a sports center on fatherhood. What would be your top ten highlight of the week from your dad life?
Sanford Johnson:So so there are 2 things that I would highlight. First, my twin, which is the daughter who looks and acts closest to me. And I think the biggest one of the biggest challenges of being a parent is raising yourself and raising a little you, someone who acts and talks and reacts to things just like you do. But, yeah, my, my baby girl, Ava Jae turned 10, this past, Thursday. So we were able to celebrate her birthday.
Sanford Johnson:She's a big Swifty, so we got to go to the Mississippi Grammy Museum a couple of miles away and, celebrate there. We skated, and I only fell once. So that was my one highlight. And I think a second highlight, which I am celebrating today, we got the air conditioner fixed. We had our system was out ever since, Friday, and it's been, like, 100 degree heat indexes, like, every single day.
Sanford Johnson:So to see that man walk out of here and to be able to put my hand in front of that vent and feel that cold air freedom, that just really meant a lot knowing that my family's gonna come home and say, hey. We got this done.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:Oh, yeah. I I gotta tell you, as a dad, something I love is stepping into certain experiences or identities that I never would have imagined before being a dad. So for instance, like, I was never a DIY guy growing up. I I'm still not really a DIY guy. But, yeah, like, those moments where I'm able to do something around the house that makes it a little bit more comfortable for my family, I just take so much pride in.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:Like, I feel like I just stepped right out of home improvement, you know, with some I feel like I'm I could be that guy. And you like, a couple of weeks ago, you were talking about being a Swifty. Right? I don't, I don't know if you're a, you're a Taylor swift guy or not. Right.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:But like I was at, with my wife and son, we went to an imagine dragons concert. Okay. And 6 years ago before my son was born, I never would have imagined I would have been having so much fun at an imagine dragons concert and like, and that's no shade to them, like from the past or the present. I love imagine dragons now, but like so much of that is because my son is just enamored with imagine dragons. And now, like I've got all their music, like on repeat and memorized And, like, such is the beauty of, like, going through this experience, like, with our kids.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:It's like Absolutely. Like, a new life right at this stage in in our journeys, which is remarkable.
Sanford Johnson:It's it's funny because at so many different points in my life, my children's interest in music has influenced what my playlist look like. So if I were to randomly play whatever songs that are in heavy rotation, you're gonna hear Jay z. You're gonna hear The Roots. You're gonna hear, like, Bobby Rush and Johnny Taylor. But there was one period where the next song was gonna be I Don't Wanna Live on the Moon by Ernie.
Sanford Johnson:There had been the, the kids bop era, and now we're in the Beyonce, Taylor Swift. So I'm curious to see where they take us next. But, there's always good music that's going on in our house. We also like the remix songs a good bit. So we've got a couple of, like, homemade hits that we've done from everything from what are we having for for breakfast this morning to their songs about bath time, their songs about bedtime.
Sanford Johnson:So we're we're a very musical house.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:Oh, I love that. Well, it's it's clear, Sanford, that there is a certain level of curiosity that you live with and that you approach each day with both as a father, but also in your work about what could be possible for the future. You can do this work in the space of education. So as you think about that notion of what could be ahead from the educational lens or as a dad, why does that make you a dad for Kamala?
Sanford Johnson:So I I think about, the world that I want my children to grow up in. I think about what opportunities I want them to have. And I think it's very similar to the opportunities that my parents created for me and my brother, growing up. So to give you a little bit of backstory. So my, my grandfather was a sharecropper.
Sanford Johnson:Grandmother, grandpa, father were sharecroppers right outside of Jackson, Mississippi. And they set a goal that all 14 of their children were gonna graduate from college. So, you know, they, they actually achieved that goal. So 13 of them went to Alcorn State, went to the HBCUs here. There was one that went to Mississippi Valley State.
Sanford Johnson:And I saw that achieving that goal transformed the family. It provided opportunities for my dad that my grandfather couldn't have even imagined, and it also provided opportunities for me that my grandfather couldn't have imagined. So now we're at a place right now where my daughters I I like to think that they have the whole world in front of them. There are opportunities that, like will be be beyond my dad's dreams, my grandfather's dreams, and hopefully beyond what I could have even imagined possible. So I think about that kind of world.
Sanford Johnson:I also live in this amazing place called the Mississippi Delta, which has such history, has such culture. It also has a lot of challenges when it comes down to education, healthcare, economic development, things like that. And I feel like we, we fill policy here a lot more because the challenges are great. So whatever's happening at the local level, at the state level, at the federal level, when it comes down to policy, I think we feel it. So there are those policy issues.
Sanford Johnson:And I definitely feel that the success from the Biden administration, what I'm hearing from the Kamala, from Kamala's campaign and what she plans on doing as president definitely aligns with what I would like to see in our region. But I also think that this election is much bigger than this, and this is why I'm really passionate. It would be different if this was an election that was about Democrat versus Republican, or liberal versus conservative. I truly believe that this is an election that is coming down to democracy versus autocracy. I, I think that we're in a like where we are in a country right now, we can either go on 1 or 2 directions.
Sanford Johnson:We can go towards a multicultural democracy where regardless of your race, regardless of your income, regardless of your religion, regardless of your background, you can be an active participant in this democracy as a voter, as an informed citizen, as an elected official, or even as a leader. And I think the other path is this some weird form of autocracy where there's gonna be one strong man who's gonna try to rule and oppress. And I think this is one of those elections where we can either go in one direction or the other. And I think when I when I think about what I want for my children, there's only one clear path. Mhmm.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:You know, you remind me of this quote by Senator Booker, about the notion of agitated bystanders. Mhmm. And I know for me, whether it's looking at the state of democracy or an organization that I might be a part of, a team that I might be leading, I've never had much tolerance for the agitated bystanders. Mhmm. Like the people who are on the sidelines complaining, aggravated, maybe talking behind the scenes, but are not actually showing up.
Sanford Johnson:Mhmm.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:And I believe democracy, so much of it is literally about the act of showing up and Absolutely. Taking that on in a very unique and personal way, like issuing challenges to yourself Yes. Yes. Around democracy. Can you tell us more about that?
Sanford Johnson:Yes. So I am in the middle of my democracy challenge. I'm I I actually need to pull up a a spreadsheet because I'm not exactly sure what day I'm on right now. I don't
Mohan Sivaloganathan:think any know what day it is anymore.
Sanford Johnson:I can't remember. So We're all over bridges. So the the long and short of it is that it's a one one hundred days leading up into the election. I have to do one thing every single day. And that's everything from finding out what's on my ballot when I vote to donating, donating to a particular candidate.
Sanford Johnson:It could be, you know, signing up to volunteer, actually volunteering, recruiting other people to volunteer, participating in podcasts. Like like, you have to do one thing every day. This is something that I started back in 2016. And so I can take you back to November 9th, because that day really stands out to me. It's the day after the election.
Sanford Johnson:It was the day after Donald Trump was elected and was going to be the president of the United States. I came away from that day and I, I, I spent that whole day thinking about 2 different things. When I knew how bad it was going to be. Like I knew what kind of president he was going to be. Like he was who I thought he was going to be.
Sanford Johnson:And there was extreme guilt because I did not do enough. I did not volunteer as much. I did not donate as much. I did not like canvas. I didn't write postcards.
Sanford Johnson:There were so many things that I did not do because I thought that I thought it was, I thought it was a foregone conclusion that Hillary was gonna win. I was way too confident. I think if I thought that there was any possibility that Trump was gonna win that race, I think I would have done a hell of a lot more than I actually did. And on November 9th, I made a commitment that I am never gonna sit out an election ever again. So the very next year, Doug Jones was running for a Senate in Alabama.
Sanford Johnson:And I said, okay, we're gonna do a 30 day challenge. I'm gonna do something to help him win that race every 30 days. So I called voters in Alabama. I wrote postcards in Alabama. I did whatever I could.
Sanford Johnson:I wasn't able to get there, but I did a lot of volunteering that year. And then the very next year, 2018, okay, we're going to do a 50 day challenge. So what can we do? I did another 50 day challenge in 2019. In 2020, recognizing like how serious that race was and how important it was to get Trump out of office.
Sanford Johnson:I said, no, we're gonna do a 100 days. So I created a spreadsheet and I wanted to track every single day. So I was posting on Facebook, on Twitter, like, this is what I'm doing today. This is what I'm doing today. If you want to do postcards, you do here's how you do them.
Sanford Johnson:If you want to volunteer, this is how you do them. And that's something that I have continued. And it's a really good feeling to, see a new member of Congress. And I'm like, Hey, I think I've, I think she was like day 78. I think I donated to her on day 78.
Sanford Johnson:Things like that. Now, the one downside that comes out of this is that you end up with a whole lot of text messages. Because when you volunteer and you make that many donations, it's small donations, but you get on everybody's, text message list. I remember the morning of January 6th, and I was feeling really happy for myself because I did a lot of volunteering, a lot of postcard writing, a lot of calls for both Raphael Warnock and John Josh and John Assaf, for both of them. And I really felt good that morning thinking that I did all this work.
Sanford Johnson:I did beyond a 100 days to help them win the senate. And, of course, like by the afternoon, I was absolutely disgusted thinking that I did all this work in New York. Uncle's gone, like try to storm the Capitol. But, you know, I came away thinking like democracy is worth fighting for, and you gotta be involved, and you got to take action.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:Mhmm.
Sanford Johnson:You know,
Mohan Sivaloganathan:there's there's so much I love in what you That
Sanford Johnson:was really long, and I'm sorry about that.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:Oh, no. Well, it's a story that needs to be told, I think, across a couple of different levels. And for one thing, we're coming to this increasing recognition that words like should or phrases like if only don't serve to help us. Right. Because it detaches us from reality.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:Right? It it detaches us. It puts us in this place where we can be more cynical and feeling like things are completely out of our control. And and we know as dads, like, that's that's kryptonite right there. As dads, we we want that control.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:Right? We need we need that control. Now, of course, with our kids, we tend to have, like, the opposite and is a complete lack of control, but, like, that's the beauty of it. But I think you you seized control, but also did it in a way that was on your own terms, in a way that worked for you. Right?
Mohan Sivaloganathan:Setting up the spreadsheets, right, being very methodical. And I think for other dads, it might be I need to be in community in a in a certain way. I need to be hosting this type of event. I need to be having this type of conversation, but, like, that is the beauty of democracy is that we can find our own way to do it. We can bring our own special sauce, our own flavor to this process.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:And now you have these incredible stories that you're able to tell because you know you know that you showed up. And and that's what this moment is about, I think, in so many ways.
Sanford Johnson:So 2 things that really stand out to me. And thank you, 2 things that really stand out to me. 1, it was really good to be able to do things that allowed me to channel my anger, when there were things that were said, when there were things that were done, when there were, I, when there were times where I saw things on social media that filled me with rage, I would put that energy into writing postcards. So like, I'm hate writing this afternoon. So I'm gonna write, I'm gonna write to like 10 voters in Georgia or North Carolina right now, just to, vent all that.
Sanford Johnson:And I also noticed that my daughters were really invested in helping out whenever they could. So there were moments where I'm writing postcards, and my daughter is helping to my oldest daughter is helping to address them. My youngest daughter is putting stamps on. I also, there were there were also moments where we were putting out yard signs. So I'm looking to see, like, what they're gonna do this time.
Sanford Johnson:I don't know if they're gonna I don't know how much time they're gonna wanna spend canvassing, but, we'll we'll give it a shot.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:You know, put on, like, a, like, a Swifty cover band fundraising performance. Mhmm.
Sanford Johnson:Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. Knock knocking on doors while singing karma. I'm down.
Sanford Johnson:Let's do it.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, that that seems buzzworthy off the bat. I think we need to run with that.
Sanford Johnson:Absolutely.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:Sanford, I wanna go back to something you mentioned earlier, which is just kinda painting this picture of the vibrancy of the Mississippi Delta. And I don't know if I've I've shared this with you before. So my first role in the social impact space, this was back in, like, 2008, was recruiting teachers to come to the Mississippi Delta. Mhmm. So getting young folks out of college or even out of grad school, even early professionals to come teach in the Delta.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:And this was at a time where, and this is what teach for America, where among all teach for America regions, the Mississippi Delta had the least awareness among incoming teachers. And so there wasn't as much preference to go there in spite of the need and in spite of the opportunity. And I visited the region and I was just so blown away at just how generous folks were in this almost immediate sense of belonging that was offered to me, but it could also be offered to teachers. And that's what I brought back to then try to communicate out to prospective teachers. And within a year, the Mississippi Delta became the 2nd most desired region in the entire country, like within 1 year.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:And that wasn't because of any magic that I did. That was just pulling back the curtain on what was happening there in the Mississippi Delta. So I I'd just love to hear about, like, what does it mean to be a dad in the Mississippi Delta? What does and what does it even mean to be a Carmelo in the Mississippi Delta?
Sanford Johnson:I'm so glad that you asked that. I often tell people that this is a place that really believes in relationships and community and family. And what I have observed, not only personally, but with others is that when people come here, like folks are going to bring you into their community. Here, come, come, like come to my house for dinner. Come to my church.
Sanford Johnson:Let me feed you. Let me introduce you to somebody. Let me set you up with this cousin. It's like, let me, let me provide all these opportunities. I think the challenge here is that you have to come in with the right mindset.
Sanford Johnson:This is not an area that needs to be saved. This is an area for people who want to come in and roll up their sleeves and come to work. One of the things that I often say around educational spaces is that when you come to the Delta, you need to bring a, you need to bring a jersey and not a cape, because we're not looking for superheroes who are gonna come in and let me save you from yourselves. Like we don't need that attitude. We need people who are gonna recognize recognize the work that's already happening and say like, how can I contribute?
Sanford Johnson:What, what talents can I bring there? And say like, let me help you. Like, let me be a part of what's happening and let me help, make improvements. So that's something that, that is on my mind a lot. I often think about the fact that we're in a very rural area.
Sanford Johnson:So sometimes we have to, sometimes it takes a, a few extra sacrifices in order to make things happen for our kids. For example, my oldest daughter is a gymnast. And being a level 8 gymnast, little my love. So like we spend a lot of time on the road. I can give you all the podcast recommendations.
Sanford Johnson:But those are some of the things that we do for our oldest daughter. My youngest daughter does dance and she takes some dance classes here in Clarksdale. She takes some additional classes in Memphis at this amazing, dance studio. So we are able to provide that. And I think about, I think about the opportunities that we're able to provide for our kids.
Sanford Johnson:And I often think about, I think about the fact that this is one big family here and all kids are my kids here. Like I take ownership of the entire community. And if I'm willing to go above and beyond for my own kids, I think about this not only as an advocate, but also as a common supporter and somebody who's civically engaged. What am I willing to do for all the kids in, you know, the Mississippi Delta, in Mississippi, in the Southeast? And I'm making like, what, what can I do to make sure that every kid gets access to a great education?
Sanford Johnson:What can I do to make sure that every kid gets access to a great economic opportunities? What do, what can I do to make sure that every kid has access to, you know, clean air, clean water, good food? So I wake up every day and I'm glad that I have a job and I'm glad that there are, other opportunities for me to wake up every day thinking, what can I do to make things better for kids?
Mohan Sivaloganathan:Mhmm. There's so much in the media in particular, and then even politicians will run with this idea that we're too polarized. And there's a great sorting happening, and people can't talk to each other across partisan lines. And yet you're painting a picture of 1 family, 1 village, 1 community. And I think there's certainly something unique and distinctive to being in the South, being in Mississippi Delta, but I also don't think that it is exclusive to where you are.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:So, like, what might you tell folks to bridge that gap of, like, hey. Here's the reality of togetherness that we have in our community versus this story that might be getting told to you about, oh, it's so impossible to connect with other people. We all have different views and different aspirations.
Sanford Johnson:I have been, amazed at some of the conversations that I've been able to have with people that have been on the completely different side of the political spectrum, of the policy spectrum. And I think when you really break it down to like, what are the things that you really care about and what are your biggest concerns? Like I, I remember during Christmas, I had a conversation, with, family friends, who were very conservative. They were Trump supporters. And I ended up, surprisingly, I was making ribs with this guy actually.
Sanford Johnson:And, like in this kitchen, we were having this whole conversation about politics and policy and things that we were concerned about. Like, tell me about your upbringing. Tell me about, let me tell you about my upbringing. And I realized that there were so many areas where we had like common ground. And it was just interesting how the conversation went.
Sanford Johnson:And I realized that, okay, this person is not, like like, I I put a certain label. Like, you see the the red head and you make all these assumptions. And I realize you're not the person that I thought you were. So, but like, there are these all these areas of common ground. There are all these, agreements that we are having.
Sanford Johnson:Like, we really care about our kids. We're really concerned about their future. We're really concerned about, making sure that, you know, our sons or our daughters, our kids are able to do everything that they wanna do in life. His kids are much older than my kids are, but some of the concerns that he shared are things that I, you know, care about my kids. So it was interesting, like when you really break it down to like that human level and have that interaction, you could find common ground.
Sanford Johnson:That being said, I feel like there are some conversations that we may have to wait to have until after the election. Because I think there's something like, we gotta beat Trump's ass first. And then after we get him out of the way, now let's have a conversation about the America that we wanna create after this. And just knowing the difference. Like there's some people where you can engage in that conversation right now and let's see if we can find some areas of common ground.
Sanford Johnson:And some folks, well, I'll talk to you after we win in November.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:Mhmm. Well, let's yes. Indeed. Well, let's let's talk about that conversation leading up to the election as we gotta get to the end of our conversation here. You know, for you being in the south, I think, unfortunately, you know, you're in a space that typically, like, at the national mainstream level, people aren't really talking about in the context of the presidential election.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:Like, they're maybe talking about Georgia. Yeah. Sometimes talking about Texas. Sometimes talking about Florida. But usually not talking about Mississippi.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:Right? Right. Usually talking about Alabama. And that can lead a lot of folks to feel disenchanted or or disconnected, at least with what's happening at that national level. So what would you want to tell other dads in the region about the election?
Sanford Johnson:Oh, I'm so glad that you asked that because I think one of the things that I think frustrated me last year, so we did have statewide elections in Mississippi last year. And I feel like a lot of the infrastructure that has been built out in more competitive states, like some of the swing states, you don't see here. I wish there were more opportunities to like volunteer and canvas in communities all over the state, but we just don't have that infrastructure here yet. I think that being involved in national campaigns and competitive races in other states has given me the opportunity to build some skills that I hope can, you know, be useful in the state of Mississippi. You know, just whenever there's the next election coming around, boom.
Sanford Johnson:I know what it's like to send postcards, how to canvas, how to phone bank, because I'm getting this practice in other places. What I would encourage everybody to do, whether you're in a competitive state or not, you know, there are so many opportunities to invest in other candidates. In fact, there, there are candidates in Mississippi that, you know, you can invest in. There are some races that are going on right now. But I think in terms of being able to help Kamala get across the finish line, There's so many ways that you could be involved in the campaign right from your own home.
Sanford Johnson:And if you can gas up the car and take a couple of folks with you, head out to Georgia, head out to North Carolina, head out to a swing state, and, let's go to work.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:100%. Let's let's go to work. Let's go to work. That's what this is all about.
Sanford Johnson:Yes, sir.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:But but doing it in a way where you can have that daily joy, that daily joy and intention that just seems to be just like breathing through you in so many ways, which is just inspirational. Sanford, thank you so much for joining the show. Much appreciated.
Sanford Johnson:And the pleasure is all mine, man. And thank you so much for all this you're doing. Appreciate you.
Mohan Sivaloganathan:Thank you. Well, friends, stay tuned to future episodes where we will continue to elevate the inspirational stories of dads who are reimagining fatherhood and taking action to ensure that Kamala Harris becomes the president of the United States. Stay connected with us through dadsforcomealove.com, where you can find our social media channels, sign up for our newsletter, where you can hear about the latest dad stories, jokes, opportunities for action, and participate in your community. Thank you. And as we love to say, the Dads for Carmela community, let's effing go.