Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
The Sum of All Wisdom is built on a simple idea: music IS the sum of all wisdom.
More than a podcast, The Sum of All Wisdom is a community and resource platform dedicated to exploring music as a way of knowing. Music is humanity's oldest way of knowing and one of our best technologies for making meaning, and through long-form conversations with musicians, producers, writers, and cultural thinkers—along with performances, essays, and educational resources—we investigate the creative life and what it teaches us about memory, identity, creativity, community, and the human condition.
Whether you're a musician, artist, scholar, or simply someone who loves music and believes it matters, The Sum of All Wisdom is an invitation to listen more deeply: to great music, to the people who make it, and to the wisdom gained through a life devoted to music and musical worlds.
Because music is more than entertainment. It is one of humanity's most ancient ways of understanding the universe and our place in it.
Scott Catey (00:18)
Good morning or good evening, good day, wherever you are. to the Sum of All Wisdom. Last week we began with a simple proposition ⁓ in a world designed to divide our attention. Perhaps the real task isn't to compete for more of it, perhaps the task is to create conditions under which people willingly slow down and become present and truly listen.
That conversation with Karo Glazer and Michal Rosicki ended with an invitation. Close your eyes and listen. This week I'd like to take it one step further. Because something remarkable can happen when we give music our full attention. The world begins to feel a little larger, more textured, more mysterious. Places acquire memory. Silences acquire meaning. And a single breath can become music. Things we thought we knew.
already begin to surprise us again.
The sociologist Max Weber famously worried that modern life had become disenchanted, that we had explained so much of the world that we'd forgotten how to experience wonder. whether or not he was right, I do think we've become too good at talking over music, ignoring it, backgrounding it, or merely consuming it and not actually listening.
In this second half of my conversation with Karo and Michal we explore what it might mean to re-enchant our relationship to music. We talk about the almost mythical pull of Abbey Road Studios. We discuss international collaboration, women in the music industry, improvisation, silence, and why curiosity may be one of an artist's most important virtues. Near the end of our conversation, something unexpected happens and really opens the door for wonder.
But before we get there, let's spend a few minutes with Karo's music. It's one thing to talk about music, and it's another to encounter it. And this is Karo's latest single called Black Sun. It's powerful, uncompromising, And a wonderful introduction to the creative voice behind today's conversation. When it's over, Karo and Michal will join me and together we'll continue exploring how music can surprise us, challenge us, and perhaps even help us rediscover a little wonder.
Scott Catey (05:35)
That was Karo Glazer's Black Son. Now let's continue with part two of our conversation.
Scott Catey (05:41)
Let's talk about what you
have done, Karo You've done the Abbey Road concert. I really am interested in hearing about how that came into being and what your experience was putting that show on.
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (05:53)
gosh, where it started? It's kind of... I think it's the holy grail for all artists to go there. Especially that I... I'm really a Beatle girl and I was really into their music. When I was four around, my dad told me about the Beatles and he said there were four guys from Liverpool, John Paul, George and Ringo.
Actually, I fall in love in music and without them I wouldn't be a musician now. So that was very important, but I was always into their music, not into their personas. I was never a fan, you know what I mean? Not like this. But in a way, being at Abbey was...
was the moment that changed my life because it gives you back and you feel the power and you feel the space, the space again, again, the space is amazing, at Abbey The same instrument, the same... The same floor. The same floor. You are really with them. You feel this. You feel this and as an artist...
once you did it there is no place no concert hall that can be too much and then you feel ⁓ kind of I don't want to say strong but I don't like this word but more like calm down you know what I mean like you don't need to prove you just don't need to prove and and we had ⁓
concert only for 20 people because this is what Abbey Road agreed to have so just 20 It's not a concert place. if you want to record a concert just this amount of people but I never had more fun ⁓ than you know at studio 2 at Abbey Road so yeah we're really waiting for releasing this especially that we have a video as well.
⁓ And what I want to say just like it took us two years to get permission because it's not that you have money and you're gonna perform at Abbey you have to you know be ⁓ Be somehow how they call it like you are Honored or there is some kind of like they have very strict ⁓ Solutions and and you need to be recommended by ⁓ people from the industry that you you can do this and
and you are an artist which was kind of nice you know what I mean in this era of that everything is so commercial that it's not about money it's about what you do so even if you're not a big star but you have skills the video is a brand that's the reason that they need a proof and you cannot buy this that's so nice really and
Scott Catey (09:02)
Hmm.
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (09:10)
And I think it was a game changer because once we did it once and we played the concerts, now we again came back to Abbey to record another thing. So it's like, you know, building the family with them. And that's that's great family. It's really a great family with people who are. And they and they are everybody knows that at Abbey. We are really to the music.
Scott Catey (09:28)
That's a hell of a legacy, right, to be involved with.
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (09:37)
we dedicate ourselves to the music and I really love this approach. hate this. You know, when people. I just want to be famous. I don't care about how does it sound, you know, just put it on TikTok. is lots of A & Rs they say all of these things like how can you say that? Come on, you don't care about the quality. You don't care about the message. I mean, my opinion, my personal opinion is really, really...
Hardcore because I often say that most of the music shouldn't be released, know, really like sorry for sorry for saying that but Previously you had to Had you know a long run before? Releasing one song, you know A & R's producers like managers so so So many people had to believe in your talent
And they really knew what they're doing because they were really ⁓ into music because into something more. now when you say, mean, you know, my, my, my neighbor, she can be an artist. Yeah. Like the gardener, he can be an artist. Like everybody can be an artist. Yeah. Yes. Like we, sometimes, yeah, I got a call like, like from people like, you know, AI made me a song, but there is a problem. I cannot sing it. Can you help me to sing it? I said, well, maybe you shouldn't.
But come on like and and because they treat all of these platforms like Facebook or something. Oh me too. Me too. Me too. Me too. Come on. Ask yourself. Can you dedicate your life? This is what we did like hundred percent to music business. It's so Horrible like you will never be sure you're gonna get paid. You're gonna get job. It's like never you know, never
Scott Catey (11:22)
That's right.
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (11:36)
It's going to be sad that you are successful. You can't have any guarantee. Really, you want to invest your life to the music. Like just just maybe we should say it more loud. It's not about that. I am against, you know, young artists. I'm so much into them and we really support them because even when I was playing concert at Abbey we've organized in Europe a contest for young musicians. It was "Silesia: Road to Abbey."
Scott Catey (11:54)
Mmm
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (12:05)
and we had like participants from the whole region here in the Europe and people were sending you know some songs recorded to my loops and I gave chance to one unknown artist to perform with me at Abbey Road and we paid all the costs of his transport and being there so I know he had a dream, it was a guitar player, very talented and he had a dream to be at Abbey Road
And he played so well, so beautiful that he was the chosen one. So I love to give others opportunities and support them. But if they are really talented, you know what I mean? Sorry for saying that. Not when you plug and play with random songs. So I believe we have to do this.
But before Abbey Road you know, I was more into jazz, so I was more into working with amazing masters. And I think that's why I say that, because I think both of us, had to prove a lot to be like even in 2010, there was still strong ethics. Like if you couldn't play live really well, like you didn't exist in the business.
So you had to go on the stage and just do your job, just do your job. And especially in jazz, like I had the chance to work with Richard Bona Mike Stern, ⁓ lots of European guys like Lars Danielsson, Klaus Doldinger, the very famous composer, like big, big cats here. ⁓ And you know, it's just like...
You would be if you wouldn't prepare yourself on the stage being with them on the stage at the same time. Come on. It's just like just just just just you don't want to destroy yourself. Come on. You practice, you practice, you practice. For me, the biggest hero nowadays is Flea, who says, you know, practice, practice, practice, because he made this album playing on trumpet. And this is what he says again. Practice, practice, practice. And people are a lot.
really? Practice, practice. Yes, practice, practice and really dedicate your life to music. And in this business, as you said, we always learn. I start with tape and cut the tape without computers. you wrote by the hand the notes and we always must learn the new technology. But
the music and composition and my work to translate composition to audience is the same. Yeah, which is different. This is different tools. Yeah, different tools. But anyway, yeah, I was very happy that we've been doing this whole beginning. Our work starts with really masters.
People forget about it. have one mic? Do something! Come on! You have a bad piano, a bad hall, one mic for piano... Okay, do this. Record album. Okay. And this album will be recorded and released for the world. The problem with our part of Europe, which is Eastern Europe, is like... We never had a chance to really build the network, the whole network of business. So...
When we were doing great things here, you wouldn't be able to see them. So everything that we did abroad was because we decided to move, to go, because we couldn't find supporters here. And it still doesn't exist in Eastern Europe. Like Germany, this is very strong market, but at the same time I was traveling all over the world because I knew that if I want to really learn and build my skills, you have to go somewhere else.
So I'm very, very happy that I had many, many masters even in the US. ⁓ But what I want to say is like, here you have to really be very creative to do what you do. And this is what we've been doing all our lives. And that's why we now are maybe crazy enough to push the new technologies, to push boundaries because... ⁓
It's funny, example, yes, now I'm talking with with American labels as well. I'm 40 and, you know, just and they want me to treat me as a debut artist. I'm not debut artists. You know, I've recorded albums with big, big people in the industry. I've played in so many places. You know what I mean? But we never had the support of our country that
you helps to export music and then they say how is it possible that you have so many skills but you are not that well known as you should be? And this is the big problem nowadays, I think, because do you remember MySpace? Like many... yeah, MySpace was really amazing because it really helped me in my international career, like it really helped me support me and people... that was...
Scott Catey (17:35)
I sure do. Yeah.
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (17:44)
real people like I remember you know that I was so excited that my first single Prayer I was played in New York City before I went there physically you know what I mean that was amazing that that was something ⁓ but ⁓ it worked like I was releasing something here and you had a chance to know about it now when we release it here
You don't know anything about it because the algorithms are keeping us in our countries and they don't let us to really make international projects like jazz. Like in Crossings project, I was recording in Sweden, Germany, Great Britain, US and Poland, five or four countries. You know what I mean? People from many different genres, different countries in one project. And my, my master of composition.
Joe Zawinul was one of these guys, he was from Austria but he made this amazing collective and weather report and everything that he did for jazz was amazing and that was he created also so like we also had a chance to work with him and now we are close friends with his with his son Ivan Zawinul and and this is it works like if you have the same values it works then then the same people click you know at the same time
But where do you see international projects now? Like, not too many. Not too many. Because traveling is expensive. Bringing people from different countries. ⁓ it doesn't work that easily. because who's going to listen to your music? Because you have to dedicate your music to the target.
And at the beginning we have problem because it's target. Yes. So, so, so, so where's music, the pure music. And I think that's why I was so much into immersive sound that I found, or maybe it's, it's here that nobody's gonna. It's a meeting of people in the place. Yeah. And maybe finally they're going to stop talking about all of these algorithms and all of this targeting, you know, content because,
that's very sad what happened to the music
short story that I work with Subramanian, this most famous violin player in India. Indian violin and he live in Los Angeles, played many movies. And during two years...
maybe one for two months they call hello Michal I'll be close to you and you know I met with my friend Herbie Hancock and we record new parts to my album then when I go from Los Angeles to India I do a stop in Frankfurt take a car go to your studio we mix the new part and I go home to India
Because I'll be close to you. Close, yeah, Frankfurt Tower Studio. Yeah, it's very close. And so... Yes, it is. It is. But they always stop when he met with his friend, like Stanley Clark, Herbie Hancock, and they take the trucks, go and go home. Yeah, that's...
Scott Catey (21:11)
That's a beautiful story, actually. ⁓
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (21:31)
Collecting music beautiful like like I love his like I love his approach. I really love it like And I was working on this Crossings Project was something similar ⁓ And I remember the story John Taylor amazing pianist from from England from London He was working with ECM records crazy guy crazy guy But I love working with crazy people really into the music and I remember when I told Mike Stern, you know
And asking, who's going to play on piano? said, John Taylor. said, this crazy English man. said, yes, you know, we've never played together. Whoa. It's going to be our first time. And that for me now as a producer as well is amazing when you build possibilities and build the spaces for connection for others that they are excited to do it.
that's your job as well, you know, to make everybody happy, me as well. And it's like, that was my song. But anyway, you know, this, this crosses people who shouldn't play together, but you have a feeling that they're gonna fit together. You should bring them together on this show. This is what I really love because this is this old school ⁓ music production that you know ⁓ who you should really...
bring to the recording room. Each person gives different emotions, his emotions, his interpretation and everything is... this is the same song but with many colors and many changes. and sometimes you might be the best drummer in the world but your attitude and you know how you... your energy is not what we're looking for now.
Scott Catey (23:24)
in
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (23:25)
And it's also somehow kind of immersive approach because if it doesn't work, you know, from this human being point of view, like the music will be always, you know, not as good as it should be because especially in jazz is that that's very, very important in pop as well. But in pop, you can produce much more in pop your architect before. Yes. You think about
composition and for me the really high level the top level of free jazz is amazing because each note determine the next note of different musicians. That's amazing. really into the song. Yes. They have composition. They talk before they play.
Sometimes people say, ⁓ what is this? They play totally free. No, they talk about this piece, what emotion, about what is this piece. And after they start playing together and you listen to this music like someone composed everything. No, they are together. Maybe it's so funny what I'm going to say. They just listen to each other. Yes.
And that's the problem that people very often don't listen to each other, even musicians in a band, they don't listen to what others play. And immersive again is the place where you finally listen. So I think this is our message to people, close your eyes and listen, listen to the music really, don't judge, just listen to the music and really focus on music. Because it's something more than just a noise and playlist.
For us it's something totally like you know for half of my life I didn't use any words I was scatting vocalizing just just I love it and I never You know felt that it's a problem But then I found out that people really need Need words, uh, like they are really so much um Like moved when when you have a melody with words, I love it but
then you have to have a strong story to tell. is what I think. But for me, for example, instrumental music is enough to feel the whole emotions, but maybe it's just me. So my approach, I'm a singer, so I should be totally dedicated to, you know, traditional approach. But to me, the first is the structure, the construction, the music, the everything that builds. And then when you have beautiful top line, it's everything. It's a masterpiece. And I love that kind of...
that kind of music and voice as instrument. Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is. It is like so. So, you know, I think we were trying to build bridges now and I remember the situation with Illumination, immersive ballad about noise. The five minutes of.
Scott Catey (26:22)
Voice as instrument. Exactly.
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (26:45)
this ballet are dark and quiet yes silence completely silence and yes and we hear the noise of the hall and it's not silence
Scott Catey (26:53)
like John Cage.
That's right. That's amazing, isn't it?
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (27:04)
Yes, but I found a solution to make it really quiet and to feel silence. So I've checked which note that the electricity is generating, the frequencies, and I found it was C. And then I went, yeah, during the rehearsals and I recorded like C long note.
almost you know you couldn't hear it but it was exactly this note of the electricity that you feel the pressure you feel the silence but it wasn't absolutely silence but you felt you know the pressure the sabo were playing with this note so again you felt this emptiness but it wasn't empty it was everything under control because audience don't hear electricity they hear composition yes
So silence is not a silence in music as well. If you, know, have this strategy. Yeah, it was like it was a nightmare. know, the music was so immersing, like big production and then this moment of silence. And he says like the director, no, it's nothing. No, just can you can you hear it?
The noise is also for me music and composition.
part of.
Scott Catey (28:29)
Can I ask you about another thing that you've been working on, the Music Is Her Name project. I think that's a really fascinating project. And so I have two questions. One is, just general, can you tell me about that project? I think it's wonderful. The second thing is, in your experience, as we've been talking today, how much of your...
experience is based on the fact that you're a woman. Women are still really underrepresented in the music industry. And so how does that impact your ability to push immersive composition and to push this idea of architecture and music and these other things?
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (29:11)
actually maybe the first, ⁓ the second question. So me as a woman and immersive sound, I don't feel any connections honestly about it. because all my life I didn't care about am I a woman, am I a man? mean music in general, musicians, people working in music to me, we don't have like sex. we are people like totally like I don't...
Scott Catey (29:30)
Hmm.
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (29:41)
I never had this problem ⁓ when I think about myself but it doesn't mean, now coming back to the beginning of your question, in general the business or the industry doesn't have problems. They all have problems because it's still untypical that a blonde girl who should be Britney Spears, I remember that after my first album they wrote in a German
in German press that the girl who's cast like Ella Fitzgerald but looks like Britney Spears and that was the most important thing to them, know, so they didn't care about music, they care about how I look and it was always the look is more important than, you know, what you really deliver. Like, for example, know, Beyoncé here in Europe, like nobody treats her as a vocal
producer, know, artist that really composes because she's just, you know, the icon. That's a big, big problem. This is how we look at women in music industry. mostly ⁓ men are really strong. They don't care. Like they are not into the music. Like they don't care even about words very often. Like, especially in jazz. In jazz, it was like, ⁓ you know,
I always wanted to learn something. I was digging, know, always asking people how you made it, can you help me, can you tell me, blah, blah, And if you're not one of them, and I also, you know, I didn't drink alcohol, I never went into drugs, I'm not a party girl, I'm really into music, which is kind of problematic. And most women, what I found, have the same problem.
that if you don't resonate with this man's way of strong being in the music business then then you just a puppy or I don't know that's how they treat you this is really not fair like I never like I'm really lucky because you know you are the first sound engineer that I met in my life so it was really cool because I mean even though you said you don't want to work with me later because you are so much into instrumental music but you gave me your friend
And actually I recorded great albums with him. ⁓ But it's kind of... And I still see it because it's very problematic. Maybe I'm a really strong persona so I don't have these problems because I can say loudly what I think. And ⁓ I never liked when men were treating me like a girl. So I was always proving myself twice more, you know, and doing things that they never had.
Idea to do and I remember when we had rehearsing in Germany with my band and and it was before my the session with Mike Stern and and you know I'm conducting the band and saying and here in this place, know Mike's there is gonna play a solo blah blah blah and later Yeah, and then it's gonna be John Taylor and yeah, then last time you saw and and musicians young musicians We're looking with me. Really? What is she talking about? Yeah, she's dreaming
And then, you it's just like you do this and they say, hmm, how the same was with Abbey Road, you know, like, hmm, you really think because I'm the first Polish artist playing concerts at Abbey Road and they say, hmm, really you think you're going to make it? Yes, I'm going to make it because it's not about dream. It's about if you have. If you have an idea, just go for it and do it like, come on. Where's the problem is just like if you really want to do something and just just be creative enough to deliver.
And women, they afraid to think this way. Because women, especially in Europe, should take care about their children and the politics in different countries are still the same. Like, for example, it's better in France or in the UK and of course in Scandinavia. It's really into the...
equality but but but here in Poland in in Hungary, Czech Republics, all of this part of Europe is still very sexism and and and and and when you say you are you are a woman producer is like ⁓ really so how you're gonna go and and put the cable I'm pretty sure you don't know how to do it blah blah blah and you look at them
and lots of comments like that still it happens like what was it like like a few days ago it was a ⁓ saxophone player i remember that like you you had a recording session with jazz band and they didn't know i'm gonna come come to you and and so i'm showing up hi saying hi and he treats me as a blonde yeah so he went to the
the recording room and he's bringing the saxophone play the saxophone his saxophone he's saying have you ever seen this instrument i look at him and what can you do yeah ⁓ my god i've never seen it show me and he's so happy because he can and he's laughing because everybody knows and even the guys in the band everybody knows what i do you know and and and he didn't know who i am so yeah this is what he did like he treated me absolutely as a as a girl
Later, he was really kind and he knew that he did something he shouldn't. But it's still like this. So what we do in Music is Her Name is encouraging, you know, girls to be not only singers, because that's a big problem. I really encourage them, teach them how to play instruments. You have to play, you know, it's just like I'm not going to give you a teacher, but what you have to do is sit and
Practice and practice and practice just just push yourself. Sorry We have to say just just try harder because you have if you can sing it means you can play it It's both come on. It's not like just one you don't have to be the best pianist But play a few notes just to you know, just to know this is CD, you know easy easy going stuff ⁓ and And we had this project Blockchain Songwriting Academy actually
It was the moment that that made me, um, announcing Music is Her Name because we had 40, 40 participants and 24. Yeah. 24 girls. And I asked them why, because it's not typical that you have 24, you know, girls when you have 40 places, usually it's like four girls and then 36,
⁓ men and and they said you know Karo because it was you and you were inviting us and because if women can say it loudly hey i'm inviting you they were more into it because they didn't afraid that i'm gonna judge them that you know they they said that because you are you know for us here a hero because you do it actually "shero" this is what they said
and this is what you do because you tell us that it's possible and I think that coming back again to what I've started is because I never had in my mind this this bug that tells me you you can't I had a I had a great father and he was always treating me as a as a person you know what I mean he never
He was always speaking with me as with partner. I never had this feeling like I'm something less that being a woman means that I have to do something like he was really my partner and and He brought me to the first concert like he was an architect. I was so much into so I think because of him I was really building great Great connections with with men in music even when they were doing all this funny stuff It's okay
Like it's okay, you know what I mean, like everybody does something and I always smile to this. But of course there's many, many toxic situations as well and I know about it and part of girls from from Music's Her Name told me stories like, you know, some sexual harassment and so on. And the problem is that I know these men and I know that they were trying to do it for me to me and they still are in the business and nobody does anything with it.
20 years after 20 years they do the same stuff and and that's disgusting and and this is what we also trying to do to say it loudly that come on it it shouldn't be like that that that that that's something more than than just about music yeah you know the stories that some label are disappear
the same reason that the business cancel the small label because they don't want to talk about this. Yeah, because this problem is everywhere. And I'm a huge fan of Linda Perry. Like she's my hero when we talk about music production and she's my shero and she's also tough. And I feel her very much like like her approach to making music. never she never says I'm a woman first like
No, first I'm an artist, okay? I'm a composer. Then I am. Then I am mother, woman and everything. First, just don't... I hate when people put some labels in us. Don't judge. Again, close your eyes and listen to the music. But they really want to put you somewhere where they feel comfortable with you. ⁓ And I've learned that people like us, they are always... We are always...
kind of problematic because you show them that you can do more ⁓ differently, can go somewhere where nobody goes, you know, it's just, and they don't feel comfortable with it. And it's okay. And it's okay. I don't fight with it. Like I'm just doing what I like to do because I think the most important thing I really want to say today is that music for us is fun. And if you don't enjoy it, if you don't have
fun making music and you really struggle and it's like a nightmare maybe you shouldn't do this but for us it's always such a yeah we love it like it's fun and it's like being still in in a kindergarten and and you know I had a chance to work with Masters John Taylor when I was working with him was 80
Klaus Doldinger, the guy who wrote music to Neverending Story and does both, really amazing composer. was, the last time when I saw him, 92. Unfortunately, he died last year. But till the end, he was young, both of them.
Scott Catey (40:44)
Mm.
Music does that, for sure.
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (41:02)
But
you really have to be in music, not just be for popularity, for money, fame. I have a years ago that David Marais
tour in Europe and one band wants that he play a solo on album and directly from airport from US they go to the studio and set first record crazy and play three version of this solo go to control room and said okay I play what I hear
Now you speak about this piece and tell me the story about this piece.
and come on they fly from Los Angeles to London to Katowice drive two hours by the car go to the studio play three amazing solos and want to talk about music
Scott Catey (42:26)
mean, in a
sense, what else is there, right? I wonder, Karo, if you are up for doing something for us, performing something for us today.
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (42:40)
⁓ I wasn't prepared. You want me to... you didn't tell me that. No, I didn't. Okay. Okay, can... I can... No, I can... can... can perform you something.
Scott Catey (42:55)
It's totally up to you. If you don't feel up for it, that's okay. But I would love to have...
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (42:59)
Okay, I can tell you about my approach maybe from different point of view. I'll show you how I compose because this is very important to me because people when you say you are a composer but your first instrument is not piano but it's voice, they don't get it, you know what I mean. ⁓ So I could tell you how I...
Show it because to me music is in general everywhere and that's not a problem. Let's try it out. Like for me, it's like a
for example I can loop it and then you have you know the rhythm section like this and then you're
Of course that's then you put delays and the reverbs on it and it's crazy stuff but then you can make something like build layers with your voice and then try to change
the way how you sing and you mix different types of singing and I can sing in a musical and spread my energy and then I can go ⁓ tell me it be wrong
⁓ So don't tell me you cannot use different, you know, approach to singing to make something really unexpected and this is where I go. So try with your breath sometimes. I wrote a song for Lars Danielsson. It was one breath. The whole structure was on
And the whole piece I was just doing this. But it's really hard to do exactly the same thing for 6 minutes. So this is how I work with my voice and I always try to say people that you don't have to prove and you don't have to say something strange if you don't like it. You can just have fun. I know it's strange what I do now. But without it...
you're not able to sing something real, pure and honest and this is my approach that it should be natural so everything that we do every breath that I take, expression every sound that is can be part of it
Scott Catey (45:47)
When you were breathing, speaking of immersive sound, when you were breathing, found myself breathing in the rhythm that you were breathing involuntarily.
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (45:54)
And
this is part actually of my... ⁓ of one of my pieces that... Imagine now. I breathe. And you hear me over there.
And then I jump and I go...
and people see me there and I jump over there.
and the sound you can hear here there and then and more more and more and that's why i decided to put my microphones in the circle because then i can jam and each of them is a different instrument and and that's actually my my my goal to build the whole orchestra of microphones because people don't think that microphone is a is an instrument as well depending on the
which one you're going to choose, how you're going to connect it with the preamps, effects and so on. It's a different instrument, like each of them is different. But when you start breathing in different places, then the whole space is this. And even though I love very energetic music and very punchy, without silence, without breath,
doesn't exist because you need to have the contrast and you feel silence. When you feel this. It's always about this contrast you see even for her it's too much yeah so so yeah more or less it's like that.
Scott Catey (47:47)
That gave me chills, just so you know.
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (47:50)
Okay, thank you. Like I wasn't prepared but I love to improvise like you know I'm really ready to write a song from nothing from the scratch. I really love it. That's music real.
Scott Catey (48:01)
It's apparent. Yeah, it's apparent that you love it. This is a great conversation. ⁓ We're way over time. I'm sorry to have kept you both as long as we will.
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (48:08)
No, no, thank
you. No pleasure. Big pleasure. Thank you very much.
Scott Catey (48:11)
I would, before we close out, any advice for people who are listening? Anything besides ⁓ what you've already said to just send out to listeners?
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (48:22)
Never limit yourself. You are more than you think and just stay creative. Just don't follow the pattern. Don't follow any patterns. Just try to find your way of thinking.
your sound, your idea and just do it with the pure love. The love is very very important thing. If you put love into every note that you sing, every note that you played, every note that you mix, people will feel it. Especially now in the AI era it's more important than ever.
Stay creative, unpredictable, do things your way and if people tell you it's wrong then you should go there probably.
Scott Catey (49:31)
Michal, how about you?
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (49:34)
You said everything. ⁓ Music is a human.
This is for me most important, as Karo said, this is what composer feel
We still forget that it always happens first here inside
I don't sit and make prompt, I always say I'm not a poet, I'm not a writer. You know, I cannot express in prompt the sound that I have in my mind. So it's easier to me just to grab the guitar or to sing than to make something like this and just use your imagination and your instruments and
gonna make amazing job. and try to... okay the last thing I want to say. I know I talk too much okay. The last thing. Open yourself to collaborate with others and make international projects because working with people from different backgrounds, different genres, different languages sometimes I was playing
Scott Catey (50:44)
Please keep going
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (51:02)
in a band with people, they didn't know English, you know what I mean? I didn't know their language, like we didn't know how to communicate, but music was always the language that led us to communicate. And this is really great when you understand that people in different countries, for example, count rhythm differently. Like I had a big, friend from Mexico and...
and he told me everything about how he counted the rhythm and I could say, I never thought about it. Then I had a friend from India and he told me how to use tabla language and I said, ⁓ I never thought about this way because this is what's music. This is what Joe Zawinul actually gave us. And I feel that we are into his musicology. Amen!
Scott Catey (51:58)
Amen. For real. Yeah. I want to thank both of you for being here today. This has been fantastic. I really, really love this conversation and having you both on.
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (51:59)
Yeah.
Thank you.
Are we crazy?
Scott Catey (52:11)
Not at all. If you are, you're crazy in a beautiful way. I tell you, I learned something today. What I learned is ⁓ I don't know much about ⁓ immersive sound and Dolby Atmos. So I learned about that. And that is like, I can't wait to experience that. I want you to come to the US now and do that, because I want to experience that.
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (52:14)
Thank you very much.
Thank you. Thank you so much. And we can't wait because we really love American public and we really love your approach to music. And always when I'm in the US, I get the best, the best experiences in my life. Thank you.
Scott Catey (52:52)
We'll make
sure you schedule DC on your next tour. right. Take care of both of you. Thanks very much for keeping in touch. Bye-bye.
Karo Glazer & Mike Rosicki (52:55)
We will. Thank you very much. Thank you. Take care. Bye bye.
Scott Catey (53:02)
That wraps up part two of my conversation with Karo Glazer and Michal Rosicki. We'll be back next week with a conversation with Matthias Sturm, a really exceptional musician born and raised in former East Germany and now living in France. I hope we'll see you there. My deep thanks this week to Karo and Michal for a wonderful conversation and especially for all they do in the world. But before we go, let me add that one of the things I really love about doing this show.
is that we don't just get to talk about music, we get to spend time with it. So let's listen once more. Here's another performance from Karo Glazer. This one is called Looking for a Word. Thanks for joining me and thanks for listening.
Scott Catey (57:29)
That wraps up this week's episode of the Sum of All Wisdom. Thank you for turning us on. If this conversation resonated with you, please consider sharing it with others. If it provoked you, please let us know that too. You can comment, DM, or email me with all your thoughts.
I'm Dr Scott Catey, writer, producer, and host of the Sum of All Wisdom, and the show is released by Ravenna Studios. Thanks for checking us out.