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Circling The Drain is a show about the current state of the music and radio businesses as well as culture in general!
Hosted by John E. Bozeman and Jay Harper along with Jim McCarthy as Co-Host/Executive Producer.
John has had a storied career in music and talk radio, most notably as the Executive Producer for the late and legendary Phil Valentine.
Jay also has has a long career in radio as Announcer, Play-by-Play, Voice and On-Camera Actor. He was also an Artist Rep for MCA records.
Jim McCarthy ALSO has had a tremendous career in radio since 1996 and has since brought his consulting/producing skillset to the podcast world.
Circling the Drain is produced by ItsYourShow.co
Unknown: Well, we've talked
about Restless Heart. Let's talk
about the front men, how you
guys got together and the story
behind that.
Wow, it all started
with a video, and
yeah, mr.
Jim
over there. Yeah, he
saw what he started. Larry,
you're welcome. No need to, no
need to thank me, but you're
welcome.
Welcome to a podcast about music
and entertainment. Before it all
goes down the disposal, this is
Circling the Drain.
Hey, welcome back to Circling
the Drain. Johnny B, right here,
Johnny Bozeman, right over
there. J. Harper, how
did Johnny B? Gosh, didn't I
just see you? Yeah, you did. All
right, okay. So it's not my
imagination. We've got James
Patrick, of course, joining
us
and running the running the
show, literally.
And James Patrick brought along
a very cool guest
today. Yeah,
we're excited about this. This
guy's one of my favorite
singers. Yes, and you talk about
somebody that really brought
some class to country music, I
think, and from Restless Heart,
and he's done so much more.
Larry Stewart, thank you for
joining us on Circle. Thank you,
brother.
I've never been accused of
bringing class to anything, I
even
if it's low class, I mean, that
may be bad. No, man, Johnny B is
so right. Yeah, we were talking
before we kind of got the wheels
turning here about how
wheels surprising you said that.
Yeah,
one of my favorite albums,
right? Right, that's right.
Yeah, but how you just really
brought a new dynamic and a
fresh new sound and approach
that I know us DJs back then
certainly loved and appreciated,
and I, you know, totally
accepted you guys, even though
from what I hear not everybody
did.
No, the industry, the Music Row
did not take kindly to Restless
Heart. In the very beginning,
now you guys at Radio changed
our lives, because you know
overnight radios we haven't -
our first three singles went top
10, no, our first one went top
25 the next three went top 10,
and then we released the Wheels
album, and kaboom, we had six
number ones in a row,
and
we were road dogs for a long
time after that, but no, we
brought a contemporary sound to
Musik Row that not everybody was
willing to accept. In the very
beginning, it was the era of the
Judds and Ricky Skaggs and and
Randy Travis and
Dwight Yoga,
Dwight Yoakum, you know, it was,
it was twangy, so to speak.
Yeah,
you know,
which there's nothing wrong with
that.
I grew up on it. I'm from
Kentucky.
Well, yeah, definitely, right.
You know, so listen to this,
Twang. You will not talk. Yeah,
so it took a minute, you know.
And it was, I guess, the third
album in Bluest Eyes in Texas
that they said, okay, we'll
reluctantly accept them for a
minute.
Yeah, they said Texas. They
mentioned Texas,
and yeah,
well,
you guys are radio, great,
you know. You say Music Row
didn't accept you, but obviously
somebody did. Tim Dubois was he
the guy that, that pretty well
made the magic for you fellas?
He is. It was his dream, and he
had been working with a bunch of
musicians from Oklahoma, because
he's from Oklahoma, and then he
brought John Dietrich, our
drummer, in, who's from New
York, and then he brought Scott
Hendricks in to help co-produce
and engineer, and all that
stuff, and and the original lead
singer quit because his wife
made him and I knew some of
those guys from Belmont and so
they had me come in and gather
around a mic and we sang
together and I was working at
the Country Music Hall of Fame
at the time and singing demos
and doing that stuff, and so Tim
called me one day and asked me
if I wanted to be in a band, and
I said, well, I'm gonna be
married next year, I don't think
my future father-in-law would
really appreciate some redneck
singer going and marrying his
daughter and then leaving town
for weeks at a time, and, and
this was like Thanksgiving, 1983
So, will you go home and talk to
your fiance and the family, and
think about it? And I'll call
you on Tuesday when I get back
from Oklahoma, and say what you
think. So, phone rang at noon,
Tuesday, Larry, like. Two, Larry
Stewart, 92 So we talked about
what we ate, and he said, Well,
Larry, do you want to be in this
band or not? And my head nodded
no, and my mouth said yes. For
some reason, I started sweating
profusely. I said, What have I
done to my life? So I called my
still my wife 42 years later,
and told her what I'd done, and
she said, "Great, that's what
you want to do, do it. So, in
April, 1 weekend in April, we
recorded six tracks on the very
first album. Let the heartache
ride, heartbreak kids. I don't
know if you remember some of
those old stuff. Big
deal.
And then the second weekend in
April, I got married, went on my
honeymoon, came back. We
finished the album. We had
showcases for the labels.
September, Joe Galani signed us
to RCA, and in January we
released our first single, and
the rest is history.
Wow, that's quick. Essentially,
I mean, it's, it's undeserving,
because I know so many people in
our business that had to wait
tables for years before they,
you know, before they were, they
were in queue, you know, they
were in line at the label, and
then they finally got their
chance, so yeah, it was crazy
how fast that we came through
the ranks. Did
you have like a spidey sense
about it when you had the
opportunity?
I have a, what,
like a spidey sense about it,
maybe a gut feeling that it was
going to play out. Oh,
we didn't think anything's going
to happen. I mean, we talked
probably before we went on air
here that, you know, we, we were
different, you know, like I
said, you know, I hear these,
these guys with contemporary
sounds at the piano and the Greg
Jennings guitar sound, which is
phenomenal, kind of changed the
airwaves a little bit, and the
way country radio played
electric guitar, and then you
had five guys singing four and
five part harmony with mullets,
as I said, and they didn't like
us much in the beginning, you
know, especially the award
shows, and we finally won the
vocal group of the year at the
ACMs.
Were you kind of like the
original country boy band? You
think
maybe so, maybe so, you know,
because Alabama kind of kicked
the door down, exile was around,
but Alabama kicked the door
down, yeah,
they did,
and you know, they weren't a boy
band, they were, and then, but
you know what, I hate that you
just said that,
good old boy, man. Yeah, there
you go. And then he's all
cousins.
I don't understand why anyone
other than it's just jealousy.
Because the great thing about
country music to me is that
there's always been a great
variety. There's all kinds of
variety in country music.
There's not just one certain
sound, at least it was back
then,
and boy, the 90s proved that,
yeah,
vastly, yeah, coming out of the
80s, and, and then you know,
dabbling with, you know, the
different sounds, you know, it
got rockified back then, man,
somebody would sing, and you
knew exactly who it was, three
words
exactly,
so there's a lot of different
styles, stylistic type singers
and great artists, and you know,
as, as we've gone on, it's a
little bit harder to distinguish
between some of the singers,
yeah, especially
bad man, there's some great
stuff out there, but that was
just a magical time, man, I
mean, you knew exactly who
Wynonna Judd was when she sang,
when she sang her first word.
Yeah,
but yeah, it, it was, it was a
great era, 80s and 90s, great
songwriting time, just very.. I
can't think of the word, but
just, you know, writing songs
about life and family and
friends and community, and you
know, and the young kids still
dig it. I mean, we're still
seeing those kids out there at
our shows.
Yeah,
you know, their parents raised
them right.
Speaking of, I used to see you
all the time at Bellevue Mall.
Yeah,
we.. if anybody that's listening
from Nashville, Bellevue Mall,
unfortunately, it didn't do well
later on, but
Animal Springs killed it.
But they had a play area, and
I'd always take my son up there,
and for some reason, you and I
went always about the same time.
We should have paid them
babysitting money. Yeah, we
really should. I mean, we were
there so much. Thank goodness
for that place.
Well, you're not kidding, you're
not kidding. But it didn't
bother you, so you know I didn't
want to bother, but I wish you
would have. It's so cool, man.
Larry Stewart's right here,
because I was listening to
Johnny B on Talk Radio
for. Oh, wow,
you know, but yeah, it's very
funny you say that, because Greg
Jennings, when I first got on
Facebook, one of the first
people that hit me up to be a
friend was Greg Jennings, and I
thought it can't be that Greg
Jennings, and it was,
yeah,
and I loved nothing against the
other guys in the band, because
I thought they were all great,
but you, you and Greg really
stood out to me. I loved you
too, because you had a great
voice. And then Greg had just..
I'm a guitar playing fan,
anyway, and he was so clean, so
good, such.. you
know, how many times I've heard
that over the years. I
bet
working with other artists and
the newer, younger musicians,
you know, like I said earlier,
Gray really changed and added a
dimension to country radio with
his style and his sound.
Yeah,
great player.
Well, you guys just had a great
sound. We were just talking that
it was just a breath of fresh
air at the time, big time. Yeah,
because it was different, and we
in radio. Well,
it was
there. I don't know if it's
fresh or not.
So, where did you find your
material? Was it brought to you
by producers, or, you know, you
guys in the band wrote your own
stuff? I mean, how did that come
about? Because the songs, first
of all, were just fantastic.
Well, for the most part, early
on, Tim Dubois brought us some
songs that he had written, and
he was just fresh off of Love in
the First Degree by Alabama, and
he had pitched a bunch of songs
at Alabama, and they turned them
down.
Wow,
so a lot of that first album,
Heartbreak Kid, Let the
Heartache Ride, Shakin' the
Night Away, some other songs
were those songs that pitched to
Alabama, and so we went in and
cut them and added a couple of
others, and we got our record
deal because of them. So, thank
you, Alabama. Yeah, and then
oddly enough we released that
album, and you know, back then I
don't know if you remember, but
I mean that that record was over
in eight weeks, I don't know if
y'all remember that, I mean it's
not now, it's what, 40 something
weeks or 50, right, right, you
know, we'd have, we'd have songs
that would top out wherever they
topped out, you know, in 810
right? I
mean, I worked, I was part of
the promotion team at MCA
Records in the mid 80s, and
yeah, you know, our tunes, the
George Strait stuff, the Reba
stuff, you know, it would rock
it up, and boy, 810 weeks,
and before we knew it, they
said, "You got to get back in
and record another
record,
you know. So, so we went
immediately, I mean, really soon
back in the studio and recorded
the Wheels album, and lo and
behold, Alabama asked us to go
on tour with our very first show
was Murphy Center in
Murfreesboro, Tennessee, opening
for Alabama. We got 20 minutes
and I was scared to death. I
think I threw up. I know
I did. Did
you really feel stage? Because I
never really fronted a band.
Yeah, I'd sang with my father in
church. Yeah, but never fronted
a band, and
well, that had to be almost
surreal, right?
It's like
totally surreal. Oddly enough, I
remember every second of it
still to this day. And because
of that 20 minutes, we toured
with Alabama for like a year and
a half. Thanks to them, I mean,
we really were able, because
that was before that was before
social media, so the only way
you could get out there is
through radio or going on tour,
and, and we were able to play in
front of 15 to 18,000 people a
night, man. And thanks to them,
we were, we introduced ourselves
pretty quickly.
Yeah, I would imagine. So, and I
guess that RCA record
relationship between Alabama and
you guys certainly helped
and drove to Fort Payne,
Alabama, and sat down with
Randy. Word is that Randy wasn't
real happy with RCA for signing
another band,
really,
really. Now, if you ask Randy,
he'll deny it, but I heard it
from multiple sources, but
anyway, Galani talked them into
giving us that Murphy's Burrow
shot, and so they, they loved
what we did, and we were, we
were fond to hang around, you
know, had good personalities,
and we had a great time, and
yeah, I'm guessing, I mean, if
you toured that long together,
you obviously, you must have got
along well with those guys at
some point.
Oh, not really.
As long as you got along with
each other, that's the important
part. We
got along, you know, pretty dang
good for for 30 something years.
Yeah, it wasn't perfect, but.
Any stretch of men, hey, but we
outlasted most marriages in
America. Yeah, there's something
there.
Yeah, that's true.
You know, think about that. But
we did, we did, you know, split
up. We broke up for a few years
and then got back together in
the early 2000s and toured for
another 17 years or something
like that together.
So, you guys still friends, and
no, no, not really. We played
Phoenix, John Dietrich, our
drummer, he lives in Phoenix,
and front man went to play in
Phoenix two months ago. He came
out and hung out all day, and of
course, the band that front,
that backs the front man, just
think he hung them in too. He's
a great drummer, he's,
oh yeah,
you know, he's so well trained,
and, and great singer as well.
So it's great to hang out with
him for a day.
Yeah,
yeah.
Well, that's a great thing about
you guys, too. Seemed like a lot
of people in the band were great
singers.
Well, you know, the thing about
it is, is Greg never claimed to
be a singer, and Dave Ennis
really never claimed to be a
singer.
Yeah,
but coming in, they had great
ears,
yeah,
and doing the way we stacked the
voices,
oh, the harmonies were,
it was almost like we were a
family, I mean, it was a good
thing, I truly believe that,
because when we had our stack,
it was magic, it just, it just
was right, and we were, if we
missed one voice, it wasn't the
same.
Yeah,
so it was really cool.
Yeah,
so when did, when did you hear
that for the first time, and
what was your reaction when,
when you did
that first album, we sat around
the piano, and Greg had his
acoustic guitar, and we just
kind of toured with different..
it really almost just fell out,
because John has a really high
falsetto voice, too, you know,
and so he sang high harmony.
He'd done that in a previous
band. Paul Gregg has this really
our bass player this cutting
edge, that kind of edgy third
above the melody sound that we
had, that was mostly Paul. Well,
he had a great blending edgy
voice, and then there was Dave
and Greg, who deemed themselves
not really true singers until
Restless Heart, and they sang
the low stuff together.
Wow,
and it just gelled on every
song.
So, do you think Tim Dubois just
knew that would be the way it
would come together, or was it
just as you say that
parade that it would come
together,
because he spent a lot of money
early on getting us recorded,
because all that, that first
album, you know, came out of his
pocket, you know, until we sign,
you know, the deal, but, uh,
so were all you guys just total
strangers when you were thrown
together?
The three guys, Paul, John,
Paul, bass player, John the
drummer, and Greg, the guitar
player are all from Oklahoma, so
that and then Tim and Scott
Hendricks are from Oklahoma, so
that's how that all came
together. I don't know if you
remember the boys band from back
in the 70s, but John and Paul
were in that band together for a
short time, and so they had just
come together, and and then they
needed a lead singer, and Dave
had met me at Belmont, and Greg
had heard me out around town,
like you know, songwriter
things, and here and there, and
worked with me a couple of times
in the studio, and he was a
hired guitar player, and they
hired me to come sing the demo,
or the jingle, or whatever I was
doing, and so they asked me to
come, come in, and you know,
sing, sing around a mic, and,
like I said earlier, it was they
asked me to be a part of the
band, and scared me to death. Lo
and behold, though, I, I said
yes, and we were off and running
in a hurry,
yeah, man, I know I speak for a
lot of people, we're glad you
said yes,
boy, you're not kidding, me
too,
me
too.
Now, when you were growing up in
Kentucky, who influenced you
musically?
I listened to everything, my
father, who was, man, you should
have heard him sing. He died
when I was a teenager with heart
issues, but he loved to sing,
and he knew people in the
industry, and, like I said, I
sang in church with him. We'd do
lions clubs and stuff like that
around town. Yeah, he had a
quartet, and he taught me how to
play the piano when I was, you
know, six seven years old, and,
and I could play in F and C, I
think, and then I taught myself
how to play in G, so that kind
of covered everything for his
quartet, and so my feet were
dangling from the from the piano
stool, because I was eight years
old, and I was out playing the
piano for. Them, so I did that,
you know, even up through my
teenage years, and I played
football and baseball, and at
that time I didn't think it was
really super cool for, you know,
a fullback and a linebacker for
the high school team to be
playing the gospel piano for his
dad, and so I really didn't
realize, so again, my father was
probably the biggest influence,
but I listened to gospel, I
listened to rock, you know, I'd
go to my bedroom, you know,
listen to anywhere from Glen
Campbell to Boston to the
Rolling Stones to the Oak Ridge
Boys, before they became a
country music, ag, they were,
yeah,
so I listened to a lot of stuff,
I just realized, and early, I
love music, and, but it wasn't
until I moved to Nashville,
Tennessee, I, I, I was playing
college baseball there in
Western Kentucky, and it was a
junior college, and we were, we
were really good, we were ranked
like top 10 in the country, but
we came to Volunteer State to
play, and before my dad died, he
asked a couple of people in the
industry, Jerry Crutchfield and
Jomo Scale, hey, make sure Larry
watch over Larry, make sure you
know he gets to Nashville, well,
um I was not very smart, I
guess, at that, at that age. I
didn't know what I wanted to do.
I couldn't, I didn't really have
a vision of where I was supposed
to go. So, God took over, and
they, I was coming to Volunteer
State, and they call Coach
Whitten at Belmont University
and asked him, hey, we have a
young man, we've seen him play,
he's, you know, he's good, and
we were just wondering, would
you go watch him play at
Volunteer State on whatever day
it was? We all, I hit two home
runs that day in that game, and
I've never hit two home runs in
my life, and we, long story
short, they offered me a partial
scholarship, and I was off and
running to Belmont, and I knew
Joe Moscato's son, Joey. We were
friends since we were like six
or seven years old, and we'd go
back and forth to Nashville and
visiting each other in the
summer, but anyway, the very
first person I met at Belmont
was a guy named Gordon Kennedy,
and his father was Jerry
Kennedy. Yeah, and I started
meeting people in the industry,
man. I met some of the most
talented Dan Huff, David Huff,
all those guys came out of
Belmont, and next thing I knew,
I got mono and hepatitis all the
same time. I couldn't lift my
head up, I thought I was dying,
I didn't have no idea what was
going on, but I gathered up the
energy to go see the doctor, and
he said, you know, I did a bunch
of blood works, yeah, mono and
hepatitis, got mono because I
was not getting enough sleep, I
was doing homework till 2o'clock
in the morning, I was playing
baseball, I was doing music, and
now doing that, and you know,
and then that turned into
hepatitis, so I missed out on
three months of school. Oh man,
and at the end of that, I said,
you know what, I've been playing
baseball since I was six years
old, I think I need to do
something else. Let's see, yeah,
I'll sing, that's what I'll do,
and the reason I say it's a good
thing, I really, I'm here not
because of what I, I really
didn't, I don't think I really
dreamed about it like all my
friends had dreamed about
it, right?
Yeah, I was just, it was just
here, there, you know, so okay,
well, now I went to Belmont,
graduated, thought I'd go to
work at a, at a record company,
or a publishing company, or
something, you know.
Yeah.
No, I was supposed to sing, so I
joined a band, and, and did
something I'd never done before,
and hit some home runs.
Just, I mean, we had a great
people, great people around me.
Yeah, I
mean, it's kind of funny. I
mean, one of my little companies
is this Game Time Sports
Network, and I cover primarily
JUCOs. I do live streaming of
baseball, and I just did Vol
State and Cleveland State day
before yesterday, doing their
games. So, I've gotten to know a
lot of those Vol State guys. Jim
McGuire is the coach there. Has
been there for, you know,
forever and ever. But, so,
anyway, that's cool. So, I mean,
do you, and believe me, I
understand. I play college
baseball as well, and I kind of,
I can kind of relate to your
mindset. I've been playing this
all my life, and I kind of got
burned out on it at one point. I
mean, did you think that maybe
you would ever, if you didn't do
the singing thing, would sports
have been part of what you
pursued?
I would
have tried hard to pursue it. I
talked to some scouts, you know,
yeah, and you know I was okay.
I'd probably, you know, I. I
probably made it, maybe single,
a yeah,
got it.
Well, you know, just being, just
recognizing that is, yes, you
know, different than most guys
these days, you know, seeing
those multi million dollar
contracts,
yes,
a lot different now.
Well, we've talked about
Restless Heart. Let's talk about
the front men, how you guys got
together and the story behind
that.
Wow,
it all started with a video and
mr.
GM over there. Yeah, what he
started. Oh, I know,
Larry, you're welcome. Okay, no
need to, no need to thank me,
but you're welcome.
Almost 16 years ago, wow,
they're crazy.
No, it's not. It was about 17
years ago, me and Richie
McDonald, the voice of Lone
Star, we were down in Baton
Rouge, Louisiana, doing a
fundraiser for for the voice of
Scooby Doo.
Oh yeah,
we were sitting in a Marriott
hotel lobby bar, drinking
coffee, waiting for our turn to
go do our segment of the no sing
for the for the fundraiser.
Yeah, it's got in
us, huh?
It's got
in us. Yeah, there you go.
I know
a lot of stuff for him,
Zoinks. What I was said, it was
Shaggy. Yeah, Shaggy said Zoox.
Yeah, anyway,
yeah. So, anyway, he said, man,
I've been thinking, see what you
think, you know, these single
artists are going out together,
you know, three solo art, going
out together, and, and doing a
show, and sharing the stage
together. I was just thinking,
what would happen if we got
three singers from three
successful bands, and and went
out and did some shows and call
it the front man. I went, oh my
gosh, I love this. So, I'll try
to keep it short here. So, we
went, we had to find one more,
so we went straight to the top
originally, and asked this guy
named Randy Owen of Alabama if
he wanted to do
it, because
Alabama wouldn't have got at the
time,
and once again,
and he said, "Oh, yes, he said,
"yes. I said, "Yes. And we went
and did a few shows, we did
Branson, we did, we did some
private stuff, Super Bowl soiree
of some sort, and we had to get
rid of him. He didn't have
enough hits.
His day was over,
so I had to get somebody else in
there. No, he put Alabama back
together, and so he went on and
did that, and we were thinking,
Ram, well, it just so happened
Richie ran into Tim Russlow at a
mall, not the Bellevue Mall, but
at a mall, and talked to him
about it. And long story short,
Tim said, "Man, that sounds
great. Listen, I've been talking
to some people at Navy
Entertainment, and I went over
there once, and they won't want
me to go do a little tour thing.
What if I brought this up to
them? Would you be, y'all be
interested in doing it? And we
said yes. So next thing we know,
we're wearing Iraq and
Afghanistan, and landed on the
USS Bush and the USS Truman out
in the Persian Gulf. Oh man, and
it was really a bonding kind of
a thing for us. It was an
experience that it's there's
nothing like doing that kind of
stuff, and and making a
difference to the men and women
in uniform. So we would do that
every winter, most winters, not
every single winter, but most
winters after that, when our
bands weren't touring, and, and
you know I'm kept going, kept
going, kept going, and then fast
forward to Covid, and so the
world shut down, and Who was the
very last people to go to work?
Performers,
people who got have to gather
people, exactly right, and so
we're at home, man, twiddling
our thumbs didn't know what we
were going to do, and so you
know things were starting to
open up, and and we talked to
each other and said, "What, who
knows what's what this world's
coming to?
Yeah,
you know what? Do you think
about bringing the act
stateside? Let's put a show
together, and so we did. We put
a show together, we put a band
together, we, you know, got a
bus and tour managers and stage
managers, you know, and went out
on tour, and we've been doing it
now for, I guess, three years at
this level, and
because you're just acoustic up
until then, we
were acoustic,
it's
like Covid made you double down.
Interesting,
that's exactly right.
Oh,
we doubled down on them, we
wasn't scared.
Yeah,
a lot of cool things came out of
Covid, because these guys, I
loved when they got together.
Then William Lee Golden put his
family together and put together
a great, I mean, just
more
Californians. In Tennessee,
yeah, exactly.
We got, we got shows because
artists didn't want to go out.
They were, they were afraid of
COVID,
right? I
wasn't. We weren't.
You were very vocal during that
time.
Yeah,
I remember watching you did a
show on Facebook,
yep, every week.
Yep. And
we call Fridays with something
with
Fridays with you was like
Fridays at five or something,
Fridays at five.
Yeah, Courtney and I would break
out the wine and start our
weekend.
Oh, wow.
Well, we couldn't go out on
tour, so you know, yeah, sing a
few songs to the folks at home
if they're at home and they want
to tune in. So I did that for, I
don't know, quite a few months.
Yeah, yeah,
you tuned in, huh?
I did.
I should have
brought you into, how deep into
my little show did you turn me
off?
We watched the whole thing.
Oh, is
he telling the truth?
Couple,
I think he is
okay.
Yeah, he's being honest.
Yeah, my wife will tell me if
I'm not. I think I'm being
honest.
Well, I wish I would have had
you come into the radio studio,
because, man, I was all alone
then during the.. where are you?
Oh, yeah,
I'd have done.. it
was lonesome.
I'd have done it. I
was lonesome for some company.
Yeah, radio, at that time it was
all home. It was Zoom, and you
know all that kind of stuff.
Nobody was coming into a
building.
They wanted to keep talent safe,
but you know, guys like me, they
just get a
damn exactly
good
luck operative word being from
their point of view, talent,
Johnny. Yeah, from their point
of view. Okay,
seven feet from you, that was
like gun splatter right there.
Just
want to make sure that's
right. But good luck
to you, do though. So, you know,
Larry, I mean, like, so many
people during that whole COVID
time. I mean, did you suffer
some, like, you know, financial
strain? And, or a little bit?
Yeah, you know, I mean,
you know, what was that call
that they gave that they handed
out to PPP? You know, so that
helped a little bit, right? And,
yeah, I was an announcer for the
Globetrotters at that time, and
I remember March, march 13, 2020
they shut us down, yeah, you
know,
yeah,
so yeah, and the Trotters didn't
work for like almost two
years,
same, I mean, I'm the business
geek in me, always wants to ask
like these types of questions,
is it like the front men, the
frontmen live.com is the
website, is that completely
owned by the three of you as
like an LLC, and all that fun
stuff.
Yep,
and you have the trademark on
it, and all that fun
stuff. Working on the trademark,
working on that. Yeah, it should
be trademarkable, I would think,
by now.
Yeah, and the other thing
is,
like,
yes,
you've got, you've got history
with it, so I mean, it should be
okay. I'm also wondering, like,
if it can be broken into other
avenues, you know, front men of
country, maybe front men of
rock, you know that. Oh yeah,
and maybe turn it into, like,
the, you know, how they have
these bands that go around, like
one was called Metal Shop, and
you have the Spasmatics, you
know that kind of a thing.
Well, we've dropped the country
now, and we're just using
just the
front man,
just Larry Tim and
Richie.
Yeah, that's just just an idea,
you know. Might be able to
double
Larry, Rudy, and Steve, the
Gatlin Brothers, Larry, Tim, and
Richie, the frontman brothers.
How hard was it to put a band? I
mean, in Nashville, it's not
hard to put a band together. No,
but I mean, obviously it must
have changed the dynamic some.
It totally did. It made it so
much fun. And we have a great
band. We started with some
different guys, the same guitar
player, Link Detton. He played
with Jeff Cook and some of those
Alabama guys for a long time.
He's, he's got the Greg Jennings
toned down. Yeah, but we've got
a couple of new guys, and
they're fantastic young guys,
really good.
I must have missed the call
about the drummer opening, but
you know it's okay.
You're a drummer,
I am. But you know, I played
with the Huey Lewis in a news
tribute band. I mean,
I did not know you were a
drummer.
I thought I mentioned it.
Well, we'll know now.
I play to fill in. I play rhythm
guitar. Hey, if you ever need
someone to fill in, I play
rhythm guitar, and I sing
pretty good
harmony. There you go,
my brother plays keys, I mean,
we're both, we go, we really
jelly was, and I know Tim, Tim
is a drummer as well, I think he
cut his teeth in music playing
the drums,
Tim Rushlow,
yeah,
yeah, he is a drummer,
and knowing, because when he was
in Rushlow, my friend, my buddy,
actually, Al Dean's guys were
part of the formation of that
man, and Rich used to tell me
how hard he was on drummers. Is
he still.. is that still the
case?
I don't know. I don't think so.
Our drummer is so dang good.
Yeah, Chase Adams, he's an
amazing drummer on your
Instagram. To grab the other
day, I saw that you were filling
it. I am so bad, I just stopped.
I have no rhythm anymore. So,
yeah, I didn't sit there long.
Well, you know, we, we always
ask artists when they come in
and visit with us on circling
the drain. What do they think of
what's going on in the country
music landscape these days? I
know you'd mentioned how you
really enjoy a lot of the stuff,
but I mean, you know, different
eras, you know, we're all
different ages, we grow up with
different sounds and whatnot,
and things appeal to us and
things don't, I mean, what? What
do you really, really dig out
there that's happening, at least
in the country? John Randy,
yeah. Well, I mean, I love, you
know, a bunch of it. I'm a
Morgan Wallen fan, you know, I
like Luke Combs and some Aldine
stuff, you know, that's a
totally different style of what
we had in the 90s, but I'll tell
you something that's really kind
of cool. We run into a bunch of
those people out in the summer
doing the festivals, terrible
festivals, you know, multi-act
festivals, and they, a lot of
them, you don't have a 90s
segment in their show.
Yeah,
and sometimes they'll come up to
us, you know, we had to drop our
90 segment because y'all are on
the bill.
Well, heck, they could have
asked you to join them,
that's
what I'm saying, right? They
didn't.
Yeah,
use your head, man. Come on, you
got them right there,
you know. I know Jelly Roll gets
a, you know, a little bit of
consternation from certain
segments of the industry, but I
really like what, what he does,
consternation, that's
a board.
Yeah,
what
a,
what a talented guy he is,
especially with his ability to,
to reach the audience, his
ability to speak as much as his
music. He's, we're on BMG with
him, and he's,
yeah, he seems very genuine, you
know.
There's life, man. He's had..
oh, he
did, yeah. But always say he's
like he's like a nicer version
of David Allen Co.
David Allen Co. 2.0 that's
right. I also like this new
girl, Ellen Langley.
Yep, she's hot, but
oh,
different ways.
Yes, several ways.
I mean, you talk about Star,
she's got it written all over
her. I mean, she's gorgeous, and
sing well.
She is, she is, she's.. I guess
she's the hottest thing going
right now. Yes, she is.
There's also a turn happening,
and maybe this is what's also
quality, like putting Jelly Roll
up there. His songs are hitting
a nerve, you know what I mean?
The actual lyrical content, the
things that they're talking
about, you know, the first big,
first big hitting at was I Am
Not Okay, is
that? Yeah,
that hit a nerve.
A lot of people prize
me, right?
Save me also, you know,
well, and that's great country.
I mean, that that's what country
has always been to me, is that
it hits your, hits your soul,
hits your heart. That's what was
so good about Restless Heart
when they came out, because
their songs, especially where us
guys working in radio, it just
really..
this is different,
different. I would, I wouldn't
compare that to Jelly Roll.
Yeah, once we got out of prison
and we face full of
tattoos,
yeah, you got the tattoos
removed. That was really
good for the drug addiction.
Where did the name Restless
Heart come from?
Yeah, y'all, we had the hardest
time naming our group. As a
matter of fact, was so bad.
Galante called us, and so you
know what? You got a single
coming out in eight weeks. It'd
be nice for us to put a group
name on the record,
the Mullets.
So we five four got together, we
had the worst names. So finally
Greg Jennings said, "You know
what? What about Restless Heart?
And you asked, "Well, why
Restless Heart? It was a song on
our very first record, and we
didn't.. I didn't think of
looking at the titles of the
songs on the record and coming
up with.. I was trying to figure
out a mountain or a lake or a
river or a town or something to
stay
thinking like Bob Ross paintings
or something, right? Happy
little trees,
so yeah, we loved it when he
just kind of restless heart,
whoa, man, that has a ring
to it. Yeah, I can imagine
though, you know, you say that
Musik Row didn't really take to
you guys, and probably after you
named yourself Restless Heart,
instead of like the Lazy River
Boys or something, that probably
Lazy River Boys turn probably
would have led us. Better talk
about
trademarking nothing, but photos
of
people in a water park,
lazy river boys, entire
inner tubes drinking beer.
Yeah. singing Johnny Russell
records, yeah, Red Sex, Red Sex,
Red Sox. There we go. What's on
your mind? Well, you are a
mighty fine looking man, Johnny
Wendell Biggers. There go back
to a
previous episode on the Red
Becks, White Sox, Blue Ribbon
Beer, that's that's where I was.
Yeah,
I have a merch idea for us
searching for Linda Biggers
T-shirt. We need to have,
yeah, and like Larry said, "What
the hell are they talking?
Previous episode story about
radio sales people. Yeah, what?
What this is, something you
could probably marinate out over
the duration of the rest of the
episode. What's an artist that
would surprise people that to
know that you really enjoy, like
a secret guilty pleasure artist,
like even outside the genre,
that kind of ticks your box,
like the Bengals or something?
Yeah, for me it's like NSYNC, or
no Backstreet Boys,
Backstreet Boys.
Yeah, I thought they were a
great band. They had a great
sound,
great songs.
Didn't admit it at the time, but
I'll admit it now. Why not?
That's a good question.
Yeah,
I don't..
Is it like Anthrax or, you know,
Megadeth or anything like
Mega
Death?
I look like a Megadeth guy,
don't
I? Grow,
I mean
Cradle of Phil, all those great
bands.
I don't think so, man. I just,
you know, my musical styles just
bounce off the wall, and I just,
you know, and I'll be honest
with, I don't listen to a ton of
music anymore. I listen to talk
radio a lot,
podcasts,
yeah, podcasts a lot, and stuff
like that. But you know, when
I'm in the car, I listen to some
radio, yeah, but I don't have an
answer for that, and if I do,
I'll hit you up later.
Like, some people will be
surprised. No, we listen to a
lot of Broadway, my wife and I
do. Yeah, so does surprise me.
One genre that we really kind of
jive on, yeah. And it's really
kind of.. I enjoy it, yeah.
Now, see, my wife hates me
because my guilty pleasure is
actually Taylor Swift. I did
like one of her tunes, and my
wife sings it anytime that she
wants to bug me.
What's the tune?
Oh man, what was it? Shake it
off.
Oh yeah,
I love.. I mean, I just thought,
man, that's a great pop tune.
Great pop tune. I like the
production on it, and she just
didn't understand it, and she
said just vile things, you know,
like how she came about coming
up with the song, and just
nasty.
She's Taylor Swift's gonna be
somebody, I think.
I think she's gonna go play
Scott. She's
got something going,
you know. This Ella Langley
doesn't take her over. Yeah,
so Larry, you know, you say
you've been married 42 years. I
mean, good grief, the ups and
downs of the road life and
whatnot. I mean, she has to be
an angel to have put up with
it this long. Yeah, only an
angel would put up with what
I've made her put up with,
because
that's a country song, right
there.
Yeah, kind of tongue twisted
there for a minute. It is
amazing that she was able to
survive it with two little kids
hanging out at Bellevue Mall
every other day, Tony
B and his kids.
Yeah, exactly. And you know, so
I don't really know what to say
about that. I mean, I have no
idea. I don't know. I have no
idea why she stuck in there with
me, other than a good thing
again.
Yeah, well, come on, man, you're
a good guy,
you know. But I wasn't around
for. I'd be gone for six weeks
at a time. I mean, did she ever
go out on the road with you at
all?
Hardly ever, unless it was an
award show or out to California,
gonna be out there for a few
days or something. But you know,
she had the young kids,
yeah,
and we didn't have family in
town, so you know, we didn't
have a whole lot of.. she didn't
have a whole lot of help.
Yeah, boy, I could relate to
that. My wife and I went through
the same thing with our two
kids.
See, I should have introduced
myself to him at the Bellevue
Mall, because we could have
watched the kids, for
we just, you know, with one of
them, we just come dump them at
their hat, your house, but he's
got two kids now, three. Wow,
he's got three. Brock, my son,
we tell him he was the worst
child in the history of mankind.
He's one of the great young
gentlemen you've ever met in
your life. He is really has a
great family and wife and three
boys now. Are a handful,
he's getting paid back.
Oh, he's getting paid back big
time.
That's good. That's a good
thing,
right there.
Then my daughter and her
husband, they've got two, nine
and seven. And
so,
man, that sounds stunned in my
house when we have the whole
family over. You got those kids?
It is wild.
Well, I bet.
Yeah,
so did the children ever have
any musical aspirations?
No, because I told them I ever
catch you on that piano again,
you're going to be grounded. You
will not be a member of
the Lazy River Bowl.
They laugh at me, but they never
got in the music industry, so
they play anything.
No,
no,
no. Wow, my son, Brock, he, he
won a talent contest in
elementary school, then he never
sang again. I've never heard him
sing since.
Wow,
sports guy, he's a trainer.
Oh, there you go.
And you know, I don't know, I
guess they figured Dad did it,
so we got to do something else.
I don't know. I'm surprised that
now my daughter sings like a
drunk hyena. There was no chance
for her, thank goodness. Brock
had really cool voice.
Well, you know, you always hear
touring musicians, especially
lament about the family time
missed. I'm sure, man, that had
to, had to get to you after a
while, missing all those moments
with the kids.
Well, in the night, in the 90s,
when, when Restless Heart wasn't
touring, I was coaching.
Oh yeah,
so I coached both of them,
okay, cool,
for you know, three or four
years during that, you know,
that six year old to 12 year old
time, and so I got to make up
for some of that being gone, but
then this, this, this guy that
just looked in at us just now,
you know, looked like Eddie,
like drums for wrestles,
heartfelt,
yeah, he did. He did. I thought
was Eddie Van Halen for a
minute.
The it's funny because I mean
you're in a really good
position, especially with the
front men, because I think with
the whole notion and age of AI,
as it's coming down, live music
is gonna be at the forefront. I
mean, that's the good way all
the artists gonna have to make
money, you know. As
I'm so nervous about AI, about
all that.
Yeah, there is nerves and
everything, but you know,
you know, people still want to
be entertained. Thank you, Lord.
Yeah, especially more so now.
I mean, when you, when you can
take, when you take country
music artists and fill up a
football stadium for three
nights,
yeah,
what does that tell you? It's
a big deal, actually.
You know, it's just, you know,
it's just really, first of all,
country music has taken the
world by storm. Number one,
number two, I mean the artist
and the music, and I don't know,
man, people just people are
loving the country music genre
out there, and you know, boy,
we're feeling it.
Well, I mean, you had Morgan
Wallen number one on the Hot 100
billboard chart for like 12
weeks, you know, not just the
country chart, but the the
chart. He overtook Taylor,
right? Right,
yeah, he did.
Yeah, you know, you mentioned
you were a demo singer. I mean,
this whole AI thing, you know,
demos,
you don't need
a demo singers. Yeah, that's
that's going to be an art that's
going to be a thing of the past.
We'll tell the computer who you
want to sound like on this demo,
and that'll, it'll sing it for
you.
Yeah, that's
that's scary. Yes, it is. And
it's, it's happening in every..
I mean, it's not just music,
it's radio, it's everything,
all the creatives, all the
white-collar jobs too. Yeah,
like I joke, my daughter's in
UTC, and she's like, 'I'm going
to major in psychiatry, and I
go, 'No, I said someone's going
to come out with an app and
you're going to pay all to play,
you know, 2999 a month and build
your own avatar of a
psychiatrist.
Well, I
go to my doctor now, and he
pulled his phone, let me look at
that. I don't know, he's not
showing me, but it could be Chat
GPT, how to treat me or what I
need. Oh,
he's looking at boats.
This patient right here is going
to give me that cigarette boat
center concert going down to
Hall Over Inlet. The other thing
I like it, I think there's a
model of business model that
could come out, and it's
probably already happening. We
already saw, and we've discussed
it on the show before. Breaking
Rust, that happened two, three
months ago, it was a completely
AI-generated artist, completely
AI-generated song that actually
charted number one on the
digital charts on the stream,
and somebody hacked it, somebody
just figured it out, and they
hacked it somehow. Yeah, but if
I'm an artist, and I want to,
like, if Jim McCarthy wants to
go and sing, okay? Chat GPT,
here's a picture of my body.
Tell me how to dress. What's a
good branded look, you know?
Here's a sample of my voice.
Write an album, songs that's in
my range that I could possibly
sing, and blah blah blah. Put it
all together. Here's the
package, and all I got to do is
replicate it live. Does that
sound plausible for somebody
coming up?
That's a good question.
Yes, it
is. I think that's it's easy.
It's just, you know, you tell me
what I need to do.
Well, you've already got some
artists out there that are not
actually singing,
that is true.
Yeah, I remember when Phil
Valentine put together this
group called Chadwick Station,
and he listed on it that these
different band members, it was
all him and Bill Cuomo,
really,
yeah, and, and, but at
least they were singing.
Well, they were, I mean, yeah,
it wasn't AI, but it wasn't, it
wasn't a true band, like he was,
and it started getting traction
over in Europe, and he came to
me, and he goes, man, they're
wanting it, and they're wanting
an interview with Alvis, the
lead singer, Alvis Kensington,
and they thought it was real,
and I said, "Well, you, if I
were you, I'd play the Prince
card and just say I'm an
artiste, I don't do interviews,
right? And I don't know if he
went with that or not, but that
was so bizarre that it was taken
off in Europe. Wow, that's
crazy. Yeah, not even a real
band.
Yeah, I mean, we're seeing the
advent of just Milly Vanilla and
steroids.
Oh yeah, we
really are.
Yeah.
Now you can answer this question
or not. Do you guys use tracks
on stage at all, or anything?
One
song, one
song, no,
two songs. It's a new song that
Richie wrote, called Made Their
Moll. mark. Yeah,
you're still writing, and
everything that's cool.
Yeah, Richie's writing a lot,
really. It is good,
yeah. Um, that's it. Everything
else is live,
beautiful,
yeah. To a click, huh?
Is it to a click?
Yeah,
really, because I might. That's
the other thing that you could
fight against AI is getting back
into the studio in a very
organic setting, you know, like
they used to in the 2070s and
80s, just, you know, humans
looking at each other for cues,
you know. I think that'll be
because that's human certified
feel, you know what I mean,
yeah, the, you know, like the
band, and everybody, they, they
like the click, so they can make
it tight,
right? Yeah,
I don't have click in my ears,
right?
I'm the only one on stage that
doesn't hear a click,
right? I have to, as a drummer,
I have to have click,
but you have to, yeah,
yeah,
so
yeah, I mean, if I'm a vocalist,
that click would probably bug
the hell out. Yeah,
I'm too old school for to
have a
click clicking in my ear
while
trying to sing.
I could imagine. Yeah,
it's funny, because you couldn't
do that back in the wedge days.
No.
So, our future, a future guest
on this on this podcast, Chris
Goldman is going to be on here,
and he did play drums for you
guys at one time.
He sure did. John
was he trouble?
Oh,
I've known Chris for 30
something years.
Yeah,
wow.
And good guy. Yeah, so, so John
had to have some surgery or
something, so he was out a
little bit. Chris came out,
killed
it. Nice,
that dude can play anything.
He's so
talented,
he can play piano.
He's got a head full of hair,
and he's good looking. I hate
him.
Oh yeah, I'm jealous of him too,
man.
I
can tell my wife's in love with
him.
You're
still good looking, you still
have a head full.
Oh God, thank you.
A massive amount of talent. Oh
my
god, oh my gosh,
man. I googled do
GPT told you
wasn't the program, the general
manager of the station.
Inside jokes, it
was a man. It's been so fun
having you on.
Thanks so much for having
time. Yeah, it's been
super, and we wish you guys a
lot of success, and we want to
come see you sometime.
Well, you need to, because I
don't mind telling you, it's a
fun show. We did do the Franklin
Theater, yeah, a couple of weeks
ago.
You did the Mule House too,
we did the Mule House, so just
have a little fun doing some
stuff around
here. Tina Rogers, that runs
Americanaville over in
Livingston, who's a friend of
mine, and I've brought Ax on for
her at the show, and I know you
guys played there, and I didn't
get in Livingston, Tennessee, I
didn't get a chance to be at
that show because I was had
another engagement, so I was
really upset that I missed it,
I. I had, I actually did a phone
interview with Richie for, for
that show. Oh,
yeah,
yeah, but yeah, definitely want
to get out and see you guys.
Where can folks, you know, you
mentioned the website and all,
but is that really where folks
can find where you've going to
be? And
Front Men live.com is our
website, and just go to tours,
we keep the, we keep it updated,
and you can kind of see where
we're going and what we've been
doing, and just, you know, we've
got, you know, all the social
media, we got, as Tim says, fake
book and Tic Tac, and all
against the flam, and all that's
pretty good,
we post something every day, so,
and you have your own site as
well.
I got my own site, Larry
Stewart, you know, and got a
couple of Facebook pages to
that, and you know, Richie does
too. But I don't post a whole
lot anymore, you know, some I
do, but I just, we just are
posting on front men right now.
Well, you're just too busy, you
got things to do,
little too busy, and I just try
to stay out of trouble. So, if I
to keep me out of trouble, I
just don't post.
I wish more people would. I wish
more people would do that.
Actually, we were just talking
about that in a previous
episode, but we definitely
appreciate you coming on today,
and it's just great to meet you
after all this
time, man. It has been a long
time. I can't believe it. I'm
just now meeting you, listening
to you for years.
Well, I see. I've been
listening, hanging out at the
little playground at the ball.
Hello to each other.
Unbelievable, Jay. Tell them
where they can check out more
about circling the drink.
Well, by all means, the best
place, of course, is the website
circlingthedrain.net and of
course, you can find us on all
the audio platforms, the Apple
Podcasts, all that stuff, social
media. We don't post all that
much either, but we try to get
ourselves out there, Facebook
and YouTube, and all the usual
places, but the website Circling
the drain.net that's where you
can find everything.
Thank you, Brother Jay. Thank
you, Jim. Yes, sir. Of course,
thank you, Larry. And see us
next time on Circling the Drain,
you.