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FutureProof You is a team comprised of: Career Pivot Expert Dan Yu, Recruiting Master John Lovig, and AI Consultant Aaron Makelky. Listeners will hear discussions of job trends, career advice, and actionable tips for making sure their careers are future proof!
API Edit Codex FPU Podcast EP 28
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[00:00:00] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: Welcome to another episode of The Future Proof You Podcast. Go Future Proof Yourself. I am your co-host, Aaron Makelky, joined by John Lovig
[00:00:12] john-lovig--he-him-_1_04-23-2026_141853: Hello.
[00:00:13] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: and Dan Yu,
[00:00:16] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: Good afternoon.
[00:00:18] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: our resident recruiting experts. And our topic today is something you've probably heard a lot about. Going on a year or two, the narrative has been entry level roles are cooked. You're not gonna get hired. There's no new blood coming in. AI is replacing all of the college graduate entry level work across companies globally. And we're here to push back on that narrative. And John actually has, uh, a source, but also just their pulse on the recruiting world in spring of 2026. This was recorded right in the middle of Q2.
The narrative we're pushing back on: "entry level is cooked"
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[00:00:59] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: So John, let's start with. The narrative. We've all heard no one's hiring entry level, especially tech developer. People that were told four years ago, if you get a computer science degree, if you become a developer, you'll have a six-figure job before you ever graduate, and now they're working in fast food. Has, have you seen that, has there been some legitimate instances of that happening in your recruiting experience?
John: yes there's been a shift, but the class of 2026 actually has better prospects
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[00:01:24] john-lovig--he-him-_1_04-23-2026_141853: There has been a shift. Yeah, it's, it's not complete. completely out of thin air. There are a lot of companies pulled back on on graduate hiring. In the past year or so? Uh, I would
[00:01:39] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: I would say.
[00:01:40] john-lovig--he-him-_1_04-23-2026_141853: the cause of that is, is hard to tell. A lot of people are saying it's AI and AI is disrupting hiring. I don't know if that's a hundred percent what's going on.
[00:01:49] john-lovig--he-him-_1_04-23-2026_141853: I think it's partially to blame. Um, but we're seeing a shift in that. So the change now is that, [00:02:00] The class of 2026 has better prospects, I think than than their previous class. Um, both with unemployment rates among 20 to 24 year olds dropping dramatically. Uh, from where they used to be, as well as, um, a lot of major companies that hire, um, that used to hire entry level grads are hiring more. So McKinsey, IBM are all saying they're looking to bring on more people, than they had in the past. So, um, good sign, I think for people who've the money and time invested in getting an education.
[00:02:38] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: Yeah. Dan, what about you and your recruiting experience and the people you've worked with? you seen college graduates in entry level roles be difficult to come by the last 18 months to two years? I.
Dan on the AI spam-application trend and why networking beats it
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[00:02:50] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, I think there's a, a trend, right? That, uh, people that are recent grads and also [00:03:00] experienced, uh, folks that are using ai. To, uh, really spam out a, a bunch of applications and trying to use AI to, uh, customize their approach as much as possible. Um, and I think that, uh, given the lack of demand for talent, it's, uh, it's, it's right now a pretty difficult time.
[00:03:24] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: As John said, you know, the, the, A trend is reversing. Right. And so I, I think there's an opportunity, um, for the young graduates, uh, uh, I will always lean towards having, um, live interactions, right? And so networking is gonna be a much more effective way to get information from, potentially from potential hiring firms.
[00:03:51] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: So that's, um. It's kind of the opposite, I think, of what a lot of younger graduates are doing, and maybe they're being told to do it that way. [00:04:00] So, um, I would suggest to everybody that you know that you really wanna, you really wanna, uh, get out there and network as much as possible.
[00:04:08] john-lovig--he-him-_1_04-23-2026_141853: Yeah. That,
The WSJ finding: students who worked during school are landing jobs
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[00:04:09] john-lovig--he-him-_1_04-23-2026_141853: that was referenced in the Wall Street Journal article as well. Is, is, is it's not the students who are throwing applications blindly out there. It's, it's the ones that are being savvy about networking early. thing that. The, another trend that they noticed, which, uh, if you're graduating this year is probably too late, but those who haven't graduated yet, the, the students who worked while they were in school were more likely to get a job than those who didn't. And I did, it did not say, as far as I can tell, that it had to be within a particular field. So I think showing work ethic. Showing that you're not just going to school, but that you can handle more than one thing at a time and, and really do that, I think is important.
[00:04:56] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: Yeah, I think it's really important that, um, that college students get a good [00:05:00] internship and, um, if they can handle the workload, then, um, get even like a part-time, you know, a few hours a week. Uh, kind of a gig during the school year so that they can show this progression and, uh, this continuity of being in an office environment and learning how to deal with people and learning how to interact in, in a professional setting.
[00:05:26] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: I think those skills, uh, will definitely show out for sure.
[00:05:32] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: Okay.
Hypothesis #1: are grads less prepared for work than ever?
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[00:05:33] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: I am gonna throw out some hypotheses and I didn't tell you guys this ahead of time, and then I just want your response to these ideas or claims. We will start with John. Part of the reason why entry level jobs have been hard to come by is because college graduates are less prepared for the realities of work than ever before.
[00:05:55] john-lovig--he-him-_1_04-23-2026_141853: Hmm.
[00:05:59] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: I.
[00:05:59] john-lovig--he-him-_1_04-23-2026_141853: It [00:06:00] does feel that way. Um, I've seen the tiktoks of, of, uh, of Gen Zers crashing out at the idea of working 40 hours a week for someone else and not having their own free time. I don't know how, how many people feel that way. Um, but um. No, I, I don't think college ever really prepared people for the workforce. I think it's a myth to, to think that it ever did. I think the workforce now expects more out of people coming out of college investing time and training and. You know, um, someone else who reposted the same article I did commented, you know, we're losing a lot of middle managers in the workforce and those are the people who would train entry level, um, folks.
[00:06:51] john-lovig--he-him-_1_04-23-2026_141853: And so, you know, the burden of, of kind of learning on the job is likely gonna fall on on entry level, um, hires.[00:07:00]
[00:07:01] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: Yeah. Dan, what's your take on that? Are college graduates less prepared for the realities of work than ever before, or has that always been a thing and that's just an excuse.
Dan: "B-plus and fast" beats chasing the A in the real world
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[00:07:12] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: Yeah, I think it's an excuse. You know, there's, um, I think there's a real opportunity to, um, to just, just understand that nobody expects you to be perfect. And so if you, if you don't have that expectation, and uh, you know, I think there's a lot of, uh, cultural, um, hurdles that the younger graduates have to overcome.
[00:07:35] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: You know, you gotta be, gotta be perfect, gotta get an A, you know, an A means success, you know, in, in many ways the, in the real world, right? In the workforce. Um, b plus and fast is, is the way to go. Mean if you can, if you can execute and if you can get out there. You know, uh, to do the job quickly, I think that's, you know, that's gonna be more effective because you have to learn and pivot anyway.
[00:07:58] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: Um, you know, it could be midstream or it [00:08:00] could be after you deliver something, oh, you gotta, you gotta take it back and then learn. It's all, you know, it's, um, it's a process that is a p in technology companies, but in many other roles as well.
[00:08:12] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: Okay.
[00:08:12] john-lovig--he-him-_1_04-23-2026_141853: the way, the way I think about it too is in college you learn profess professional ish language, right? You learn about, you know, I learned about diversity and inclusion, best practices in hr, all this kind of stuff. I didn't learn was, Hey, John, can I have that on my desk? ASAP, right? You, you don't learn the, the work lingo or the way that that. That information gets, uh, translated into the way you do your job. Uh, I always remember when I first graduated being very frustrated you know, there were some really easy low hanging fruit of best practices that could be implemented, that would improve the workforce and being the newbie and not being able to, to change that. So an interesting, [00:09:00] um. It's an interesting thing, and again, colleges don't feel that their job is to, um, prepare people for the workforce. It's to create intellectuals people who, um, are disciplined in an area. You know, maybe they need to do a better job of connecting the two. Uh, I, I think so personally, but that's kind of where it is.
[00:09:25] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: Yeah, I, I think some, I think some colleges will do a better job at that. The, the ones that, um, like Northeastern. I think it's a good example because they, uh, require that we do a couple things, and one of them is, is have a, have a full-time internship while you're an undergrad. Um, they also require, and some schools require this, that you have to travel abroad.
[00:09:48] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: And so being able to see, you know, what it's like in a different country, just the, just the opportunity to be in a, in a place that's not your home is a good, um. Is a good [00:10:00] experience. And then some of them actually require that your internship should be overseas. So you not only get that, um, work experience, but you get it from a different cultural perspective.
[00:10:13] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: Yeah. Interesting. Okay, next one. Dan gets the first crack at this.
Hypothesis #2: companies froze hiring because of AI uncertainty, not AI itself
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[00:10:18] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: Companies have been slow to hire entry level roles due to uncertainty around ai, not AI itself. In other words, AI didn't replace the work. The companies just like, uh, I don't know if we should or shouldn't hire 'cause this AI thing is looming out here. Valid or not valid, Dan?
[00:10:38] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: Uh, I think valid. I'll, I'll go with valid. So, um, I think the precursor to that is that companies, whenever there's some kind of a shift, right, a big shift in how they do things or in the marketplace or in their industry, companies will over-hire. [00:11:00] Because they don't know if they have uncertainty. So they'll over-hire, they'll actually, uh, fire probably a little bit too many people.
[00:11:06] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: Maybe they'll do it in different forms. Like a, like a virtual, um, like a, like a forced retirement. Right. Um, or they'll make everybody come into the office, right? And so you have that layer of people that gets. Let go first. So it's a precursor. And then after that they'll try to assess what talent do they need.
[00:11:28] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: And then so, um, you know, I think there's a, there's a, it's a lagging kind of, you kind of process. And so, you know, with the, you know, with any uncertainty, you know, it's, it's gonna be there. And unfortunately, ai, or fortunately or unfortunately, AI is causing that uncertainty across industries. So the uncertainty may not be focused on, let's say, financial services, right in.
[00:11:57] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: Yeah, that's, that's solid. Um, and I've [00:12:00] seen that with software subscriptions where people do this funny thing where they go cancel it and if nobody complains, you never needed it. You're just saying do that with headcount essentially. Like, oh, can we function without 'em? I don't know. Cut a whole swath of 'em and see if the wheels fall off, and if not, we save money. Uh, John, how about you? Do you think that's a, a legitimate claim that companies have been slow to hire entry level roles due to uncertainty around AI rather than AI replacing it productivity wise?
[00:12:30] john-lovig--he-him-_1_04-23-2026_141853: I, I, I agree. I think it is around kind of evaluating what AI's place in, in the workforce is.
[00:12:39] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: Yeah. Okay.
The single best piece of advice for college students and their parents
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[00:12:40] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: Last one. And this is clip worthy, so we gotta make it good. Everybody in college or parent of a college student feels the sense of uncertainty. The world has shifted since I went to school or since I sent my son or daughter to school. your single piece of advice for somebody worried about their career opportunities coming out of college if they're currently in a college program or the parent of child is in a college program? John, what's your single piece of advice for them?
[00:13:18] john-lovig--he-him-_1_04-23-2026_141853: I think, you know, build connections now. Right. Um, one thing that that's really powerful is your classmates are people you should be networking with. You should stay in touch with long term. 'cause if they're in the field that you wanna be in and you need to make a move, they might be in a company that can help you.
[00:13:42] john-lovig--he-him-_1_04-23-2026_141853: Right? And so stay in touch with that network and start networking with professionals. Outside, you know, look at your alumni groups. Look at people who've graduated from your program. If you don't have a mentor yet who's graduated from your program and is doing what you're looking to do, [00:14:00] get one.
[00:14:03] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: Yeah. Dan, what's your single piece of advice for college grads or parents of college grads who are uncertain about their career potential?
[00:14:12] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: Uh, I agree with John that, uh, building the network is, is probably the, uh, best thing anybody can do. So build your network now. Do it for the long term. What does that mean? That means that you're not, uh, networking just to get a transaction. Oh, just gimme a job, right? You wanna build that network for the long term.
[00:14:36] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: So, so you'll never know when that network will bear fruit. You know? It will, you know, come, you know, five, six. Months, uh, you know, down the line, a year, down the line, two years down the line. I know of somebody that, uh, networked, um, with a former client that, uh, ended up [00:15:00] giving them a job 20 years later. Now, that's really long tail, but, um, you, you always, you're always networking for the long game.
[00:15:08] john-lovig--he-him-_1_04-23-2026_141853: What's the phrase? Uh, your network is your net worth.
[00:15:13] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: That's right. Right. And uh, the other one is, uh,
Dan's rule: network as if you don't have a job while you have one
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[00:15:16] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: network as if you don't have a job when you have a job, so that when you need a job, it won't seem transactional.
[00:15:27] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: And hearing Dan say that will not compel you to follow his advice, but rather your job, having not networked and feeling the pressure of, oh, I wish I would have, will ensure in the future you will not repeat that mistake. It's kinda like telling your four-year-old not to touch the hot stove. My words won't teach you the pain of experiencing it yourself will be your best teacher. I'm gonna answer my own advice. of you have been lied to about getting. know your real job, and you've had this [00:16:00] idea that there's a conveyor belt starting with kindergarten, and if you hop on and do all the things to get the diploma at the end of the conveyor belt will be a good job waiting for you, and then you can hop off the conveyor belt.
[00:16:12] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: That is education that has never been less reliable. I'm not saying no one has that. I'm saying the percent of people who experience that to be true is getting smaller every day. And my single piece of advice is, one, acknowledge that that's the truth, and two, you have to bring something other than the diploma to find the job, and no one is gonna do it for you or bestow it upon you.
[00:16:36] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: You're gonna have to figure it out for yourself. Networking is a huge part of that, and the more human in person networking, you can do, the better. I also think having a project that you apply all of these things outside of your formal education experience. So that you have more than just a portfolio of mock stuff you did in a course has never been more valuable because [00:17:00] so few people leave college education with that.
[00:17:03] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: I'll give you an example. If you're a marketer and you have a YouTube channel or a TikTok account or a blog or something that you've actually. Done this work. It doesn't matter what it's about. You have real learnings and experiences that are more valuable than most people's diplomas. find a, a passion project, a side hustle, an internship.
[00:17:23] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: I like to call it
Aaron's "permissionless project" — why a diploma alone won't cut it anymore
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[00:17:24] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: a permissionless project, like go build something for somebody else. to say, Hey, if I was in charge of your website, this is what I would do with your landing page, because that's gonna get you a job more than somebody who just has a diploma and says, Hey, I'm ready to hop off the conveyor belt.
[00:17:40] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: Where's my career waiting for me? it's not there.
[00:17:46] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: Yeah, building a portfolio of, uh, building a portfolio of, of many projects and experiences can demonstrate that you are capable of doing that thing. And, uh, it. Also along with that is having, [00:18:00] um, a recommendation right? From, from the client that you helped out. So having a named case study even better, right?
[00:18:09] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: So, uh, so a real life example is always gonna be really effective.
[00:18:15] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: Yeah, and I know John agrees with this 'cause we have a shared psych background and he has some, some higher ed experience. But leave your degree program with theoretical knowledge, that is no longer valuable. Like people don't need abstract academic ideas of how to do things. They want someone who has actually done it.
[00:18:35] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: 'cause AI can give you all the abstract ideas in the world.
[00:18:38] john-lovig--he-him-_1_04-23-2026_141853: Yeah.
[00:18:39] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: are pretty much free and instant now. So if that's all you leave, you're. College program with, you're gonna have a bad time.
[00:18:48] john-lovig--he-him-_1_04-23-2026_141853: Yeah, it's true. And your degree only matters for your first job or your first two years out of school. Any anything after that, it really doesn't matter anymore.[00:19:00]
[00:19:00] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: I live that life every day now. Yes. Well, I, the big thing, the, the message here is there is hope and there is a path. It's just, maybe it's been obscure or it's been tough for the last year or two, to John's post on LinkedIn that some of these companies like IBM are starting to look specifically for entry level hires. Maybe that trend is shifting and people are realizing AI can't just replace all of these people, middle managers, entry level roles, whatever the hype was, maybe has not turned out to bear fruit for these companies. So doesn't mean college is worthless, but I do think it's never been less important.
[00:19:45] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: Um, that's how I phrase it. my 9-year-old tells me all the time, I'm not going to college. College doesn't matter. And. I, I haven't been able to say like, yes, you have to. I think when I, as a millennial growing up, we would shiver at the thought [00:20:00] not encouraging your child to go to college. 'cause that was just the world we lived in.
[00:20:03] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: The conveyor belt. think was largely true, especially if you got the right degree. If you were, STEM engineering, developing computer science stuff, like people were throwing money at you to hire you, but now you gotta, you gotta bring something else to the table. So if you want something else, that's what future proof you is here to do.
[00:20:25] aaron-makelky_1_04-23-2026_121853: That's what our LinkedIn page is all about. If you don't follow Dan and John, their profiles will be in the show notes. We also have our website, futureproof-you.com, where you can find live courses on things like getting your LinkedIn profile set up or acing an interview, especially if it's a Zoom. Online interview. We also have asynchronous versions of those, so you can download those and watch and go through the note guides on your own. I have been your co-host, Aaron Makelky, John and Dan. Thank you guys for joining this episode of [00:21:00] Future Proof You Podcast. Go Future Proof Yourself. a great one.
[00:21:05] john-lovig--he-him-_1_04-23-2026_141853: Thanks.
[00:21:05] dan-yu--danoyu_1_04-23-2026_141853: Thanks, Aaron. Thanks John. Good seeing you guys.