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On this episode, you'll hear about the incredible message through art with designer Nada Debs and entrepreneur Sarah Beydoun, and the importance of preservation from Omniya Abdel Barr and artist Louis Barthelemy.
This episode is part of our new segment, Double-Take, where I take a deep-dive into a single topic and connect the dots between some of our best conversations.
This episode is brought to you by Azza Fahmy Jewellery.
Show Notes
On this episode, you'll hear about the incredible message through art with designer Nada Debs and entrepreneur Sarah Beydoun, and the importance of preservation from Omniya Abdel Barr and artist Louis Barthelemy. This episode is part of our new segment, Double-Take, where I take a deep-dive into a single topic and connect the dots between some of our best conversations.
This episode is brought to you by Azza Fahmy Jewellery
This episode is brought to you by EFG Hermes One, your one app for investing in more than 35 stock markets. Start investing today!
Creators and Guests
What is WIDN with Malak Fouad?
Connecting the dots across the Middle East through storytelling. Join host Malak Fouad, as she brings you the most inspiring people and unpacks their life journeys — successes, failures and everything in between!
Welcome again to What I Did Next and specifically to our new Double Take segment. Here, I connect the dots on a single topic from some of our best conversations. Over the years, we've been lucky enough to speak to the movers and shakers within the heritage and culture sphere. We've spoken to Nader Dibbs, the incredible designer.
Speaker 2:I even want to even change the word craft to maybe applied art because it's really the application that's interesting for me. That's right. And coming up with new techniques, new craft techniques that can maybe create a new vernacular for our region.
Speaker 1:Louis Barthelemy, the illustrator and artist.
Speaker 3:I see a tough future for these craft communities, although AI will never be able to.
Speaker 1:We've also spoken with Sarah Beydoun in Lebanon.
Speaker 4:I work with two fifty women
Speaker 1:in terms of hand. We've also spoken with Omniya Abdelbar, who's doing incredible work in old Cairo.
Speaker 5:Like a cliche, but if we don't preserve our memory, then we have
Speaker 1:We're kick starting this segment with Sarah Beydoun's work. Through Sarah's bag, she's been working in the luxury apparel market, but also helping women in prison to stand up and be able to support themselves.
Speaker 4:We worked in the prison for a very long time until the COVID. After the COVID, we didn't have access to the prison, the same access we had before. And at the same time, when the economical crisis hit, we had so much demand from women outside of the prison. So we restructured everything in a way where the girls that worked with us in the prison for the longest time, they form groups of women in their villages, and they train other women around them. It became like a cottage industry of the need and because of the decline of the economical situation in Lebanon.
Speaker 4:And we started receiving calls from women who used to work as secretaries, they used to work as teachers. They can't commute back and forth from where they live and earn their money and so on. So they prefer to work in the comfort of their own houses. So we have sort of an army of women in each village, almost all around Lebanon, and they act like Chef Dathaulier with Sarah Beydoun.
Speaker 1:It's very interesting. How many people are considered employed now by the company?
Speaker 4:Internally, we have 25, like I have every day coming to the office, 25 women working with us. But I work with two fifty women in terms of handwork. And we work with like eight we work with like eight attorneys,
Speaker 5:like
Speaker 4:small workshops around Lebanon that actually do the handbags.
Speaker 1:And and how do you keep the quality control? Because your products are so haute couture. I mean, they're bespoke, they're of the highest standard to rival anything you see anywhere.
Speaker 4:You know, from my first few months in the prison, I realized that what would stand out is to actually create something that you wouldn't think would be created in the prison. I mean, no, from the start, I wanted to create this item that's elevated, that's luxury. And you have to remember, the girls work on pieces of fabric. These pieces are fabric, are then turned into handbags by professionals. This is why the end product is quite luxury, and it's something we have been working on a lot.
Speaker 4:Like it's one of our main concerns to always produce something that is well crafted, well done, and the artisans we work with now are quite professionals, and like are real craftspeople, and we work on training them nonstop, and we work on what quality control is, and what we accept, what we don't accept. It's a very thorough process that we keep on updating every year, and it's very hard. It's the hard part of what we do. And with time, they learned it, and with time, and I'm very, very happy and proud to have groups of women that started working with me twenty years ago. Imagine, like I have women that's been with me twenty years.
Speaker 1:That's incredible.
Speaker 4:They are chefs, they keep, and they train other women, but we have to keep on reminding everybody of quality control. It's very important because we aim at presenting a product, although it has a social impact, we don't want people to buy it out of pity. We want people to fall in love with it and clients to fall in love with it and buy it.
Speaker 1:Almost the social impact is a byproduct in a way, but you are a luxury
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm passionate about crafts, Yannis. I always try, I look at things and see how they are done, and I always research very old crafts. So every time we have a collection coming up, we start looking at old craft from the Mediterranean or The Levant. I really love craft and how they're done. Like, I really believe that whenever you work on something, you really put your soul into it.
Speaker 4:So with every bead and every cross stitch, there's a story, a soul, I mean, a spirit within it. I love crafts. I'm part of a group called Empowered Tribe, where like a group of women coming together and sharing their experiences on a professional and personal level. So I'm also, like I get a lot of enrichment from, maybe a little bit of business enrichment because, you know, especially when you start something from scratch, throughout the years, realized that I was lacking in a lot of business skills, so I had to learn it.
Speaker 1:Are you like a mentor to other people or are you trying to grow Sarah's bag itself? I'm a mentor to a
Speaker 4:lot of people and I do it very naturally without like this label, but I have this in me, and I learned how important it is because I was mentored I a lot of didn't know they were mentoring me, but they were mentoring me. Yes, yes. So I know the benefit of having an experienced person next to you. And I think it's very, very important to actually ask for help and ask for mentorship. And it's something the young generation has to learn to do it because you can save yourself from so many mistakes and like propel yourself so much faster if you have somebody
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Next to
Speaker 4:pinpointing out things. And I do it in a very, and I do it to many friends I make that are like still at the first stages of their businesses. I always do it on, yeah. I do it without thinking. I find myself starting to give
Speaker 2:It's instinctive.
Speaker 1:It's instinctive. It's instinctive. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:But I was telling you, I learned throughout my career that, you know, sometimes things you know, you reach a place where
Speaker 2:you
Speaker 4:need to learn new things to continue, or you have to employ people who have these skills. So from the business side, because I started it from scratch, I'm also implicated in a lot of the business and how things go, a lot of aspects of work. I find myself always needing to learn more about how things should be done and done. And sometimes I find that I know a lot without knowing maybe the technical terms for them because I've experienced them.
Speaker 1:Neta Dibs is also an incredible designer who started off in Lebanon, but is now working very much in Dubai, helping craftsmen around the region. But also her work has taken her further afield.
Speaker 2:I was always saying local crafts, Syrian, Lebanese, maybe Egyptian. But today, I've been traveling to Pakistan, Uzbekistan, know, Indonesia. And so today, if I were to re edit my mission, it's not just about Eastern craft It is maybe Eastern craftsmanship, but it is really about supporting craft communities globally. Because I work in duality. It's always about finding this balance between two cultures or two worlds.
Speaker 2:And, you know, this is just an expansion of my, you know, the concept of duality.
Speaker 1:And how has your design thought process changed with these changes and with your exposure to different parts of the East? So your East prism has expanded, right?
Speaker 2:Yes, that's It
Speaker 1:was Middle Eastern, but now it's gotten a little wider. That impacted how you design?
Speaker 2:Maybe not how I design, but the materials I use are different. Like in Pakistan, I did this collaboration with Studio Lel, and we worked with Marble and Marble Inlay. So what surprised me about this collaboration is that the people who were interested in selling it was actually BSL Gallery in Paris. So Beatriz from this gallery, she was very interested in the exotic side of our part of the world. And so, you know, that also was the interesting side that now Europe is very interested
Speaker 1:There's in what we're an awakening to what we are doing.
Speaker 2:Big one. A very big awakening.
Speaker 1:And I think a lot of it has been supercharged with the war in Gaza, actually. There's a huge spotlight on us. Even more. And finally, I think there's a positivity in a weird sort of way about, or at least a balance, looking at us in a more balanced way.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Indirectly, we're being seen.
Speaker 2:We're actually being noticed, number one. Yes, yes. And then when you dig a little bit deeper, you realize that, you know, we have so much to offer in this part of the world. And also that, you know, we have different cultures within our region. So you have the Palestinian, the Lebanese, the Syrian, the Egyptian.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. So now people are differentiating. We're not just Arab, you know? Like, we're being differentiated. So it's a great time for us, and we have to tap onto this opportunity to actually push our culture, and everyone's doing that, whether it's music, food, you know, architecture.
Speaker 2:Now it's a very exciting time for us.
Speaker 1:When you look at your business, is the majority of your business from private individuals? Or do you work more with companies? You know, I know you do a lot of collaborations. It's been a trademark I of think you're actually one of the pioneers in our region to have sort of understood the potential of that. But in terms of your business, is it still individual clients that are the biggest contributor to the business?
Speaker 2:We have a lot of institutions that come to us. I think these are more than So, we had, of course, when I first started, we had the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Qatar Foundation, Queen Rania, Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 1:Arab as well, I remember.
Speaker 2:The Arab League Hall, of course, yes. And so these institutions, they want to represent a modern Arab identity, and it's still going on. Now we're finishing some VIP rooms for the Performing Arts Center in Jeddah, where the Red Sea Film Festival will be So taking yes, we still have a lot of institutional projects. We have a lot of corporate gifts. Corporate gifts is picking up in a big way.
Speaker 2:Really? That's so interesting.
Speaker 1:Give me an example, Nada. So, is seasonal? Does that happen, for example, Ramadan, Christmas time, or is that just an ongoing kind of business?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so a lot of the government level people, they always need to have gifts, constantly having gifts to give to heads of state around the world and to their VBIP clients. So there's an ongoing search. They keep coming to us to create new boxes, new trays, their logos in it, and also wedding boxes in Kuwait, in Saudi Arabia. These wedding boxes, it's a big deal when you're putting the Yeah, they put sometimes cash, money in the drawers, oud. So we make these fun boxes that have these little knickknacks, little drawers.
Speaker 1:And the boxes themselves become an item that are treasured in their own right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly. So that's fun. And then, of course, we do have our clients who come to do custom. So we do have a line of furniture and home accessories, but so many people come to us for the fact that we customize. Yes, And this is the part that I enjoy because I'm kind of like Camino, like I love to please people.
Speaker 2:So when someone comes to me and I see that they might be like frustrated designers, I give them the opportunity to participate in the creative process, you know? Oh, nice. So, yeah, so they're like, you know, we just love the color purple. We wanna be able to apply it. So, you know, I accommodate.
Speaker 2:I'm a bit of an accommodator.
Speaker 1:I think that's very, in my mind, that's always the hallmark of a successful designer because you're not dogmatic. You're not saying to someone, this is my style. This is how I work. You either like it or you don't. And there's so much of that around.
Speaker 1:But this collaborative feeling is much more enriching and more pleasurable for the person who's gonna own the item in the end as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because at the end, it's all about connection. And when they receive the piece at home, they connect to it because they created it, they're part of it. It's like giving birth to something. And for me, I really can't see myself, I really have a hard time saying I'm a furniture designer or product designer because I just feel that what I've done is actually appreciated craft, and I just find ways of applying this craft on a table, on a functional object. So it's really more about the message of craft rather than the table design itself.
Speaker 2:So it's really hard for me to say I'm a furniture designer or a product designer. And I even want to even change the word craft to maybe applied art because it's really the application that's interesting for me. That's right. Coming up with new techniques, new craft techniques that can maybe create be a new vernacular for our region.
Speaker 1:Louis Barthelemy has made The Middle East his home, and his work has been extensive, not just in Egypt, but in Morocco and further. Louis is an artist, specifically working in the textile and illustration fields. Working across many different mediums, he has brought his eye to preserving craftsmanship, especially in the age of technology.
Speaker 3:Although those crafts were born in a specific historical context and would often serve power or religion, I think that today have to engage with youth. They have to engage with current topics. And I think through contemporary art and dialoguing with artists, perhaps people from external backgrounds, this allows to nourish the conversation and provide those techniques with multiple angles and give
Speaker 1:So that's very much what you're doing right now.
Speaker 3:That's exactly what I try to do, yes. I try to engage with existing ancestral crafts in regions of the world where there is this wealth, there is this multi layered identity, but also countries where there is a certain vulnerability facing globalization and standardization. In Egypt, it's quite striking because Egypt is also facing a quite strong economic crisis, and a lot of those beautiful works are perishing. And in certain cases, there is no state behind backing up those collectors And of we live in a fast paced world, AI has joined our day to day life in the past couple of years. I see a tough future for these craft communities, although AI will never be able to replace them.
Speaker 3:So I think it's important for us, designers, artists, architects, creatives, but even private, you know, appreciators, it's important to commission, to develop, to, you know, help those craft resonate with our times. It also gives new horizons to my work, new dimensions. It's a win win. It's a win win conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Absolutely. Tell me, Louis, about when you first came to Egypt. What you came on a on
Speaker 2:a holiday. I think it
Speaker 1:was in 2017. What was, where did you, what did you do and what was so amazing about the country for you? Because it's a country you come back to repeatedly, you're inspired by it, you have a lot of very good friends here.
Speaker 3:On that first trip, I had also done this NAR cruise actually. I remember it was in February, the weather was amazing and it was a period of time where, although we were quite a few years after the revolution, there was no one, no one ever visited. Yeah,
Speaker 1:it was quiet for many years after the revolution, yeah.
Speaker 3:So it was a very extremely privileged moment to visit Egypt because locals were available to engage. They were, how do I say, yeah, excited to see foreigners in the villages along the night There towards was a warmth and an excitement, which I sensed and it truly moved me. And then coming back to Cairo and spending time with my partner, I got to understand that there was much more to the ancient world, this ancient heritage in Egypt, and there's also fascinating contemporary scene on many different levels, in the design world, in the music world. And, but yeah, there was something absolutely electrifying about it. And it says an energy I've never found elsewhere in the world than in Chiro.
Speaker 1:Yeah. See, I find that for me, Chiro, I don't see what you're saying about Chiro particularly, but for me, I find that there is a very special energy in Aswan. There is something quite magical about that city. And, you know, the ancientness somehow seeps through in every part of the people living there today. And the thing that I find the most striking about Egypt is how much of the pharaonic and ancient world still makes up how we think, what we do, how we live, even if it's on a subconscious level.
Speaker 1:You know, a lot of things in our day to day life are taken from that. And it's just passed down through centuries.
Speaker 3:I guess from the bread you eat every day.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker 1:Omniya Abdelbar is working not just in old Cairo, but also in The UK, trying to, keep a spotlight on our ancient craft, our ancient ways, and, almost stemming the tide of progress in terms of modernization, trying to keep a spotlight on the importance of heritage and the necessity to fund our rich history.
Speaker 5:It is not a luxury anymore. It is really a necessity because this is part of who we are. And it might sound like a cliche, but if we don't preserve our memory, then we have nothing. And especially the past decade has been very harmful and very painful because we've lost in Egypt and also in the region a lot of our culture heritage. But there's lots of intangible that comes around it that we don't feel it, like when I was telling you the history of the kiss swap, for example.
Speaker 5:So it's all tied up into the same sphere, in my opinion. And when I try to convince people to invest and to put aside some money for this, it's not easy. Especially in Egypt, I still didn't work with Egyptian monies until now. I'm trying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:I always got grants from abroad to do this. But I think us as Egyptian, we have to start thinking that we own this heritage and that we have a responsibility to preserve it for the other generation. I think about my son and that I want him to enjoy the richness that Egypt has. And yes, it's very challenging because this is Egypt. What are you going to preserve?
Speaker 5:Everywhere you go, there's something. That's right. Even in our modern history, there's something. But it's a mindset. And that's one of the things why my friends and I, we lobbied in 2014 and we wrote Article 50 in the constitution because we needed to introduce the word turath, heritage in our own constitution because we didn't have.
Speaker 5:We had athar, antiquity. We didn't have Turaz. And Turaz is linked to everything. It could be the Egyptian kitchen and cuisine. It could be tales and oral history.
Speaker 5:It could be stories from your grandmother, but it is part of this collective memory of the nation and it needs to be preserved. And so this is a little bit how I try to picture it for people when I try to encourage them to think about investing in culture heritage. I hope one day we would have a decent fund to allow Egyptians to preserve their heritage. And I'm a trustee at the Egypt Exploration Society in The UK. And the very first thing I worked with the society with is to establish something called Heritage at Risk.
Speaker 5:And it's a small grant. It could be 1,000 British pounds or 5,000. But I told them, please allow Egyptians to submit their application in Arabic because the language barrier is big when you're trying to apply for foreign funding. And don't make it huge, a lot of money. It could be very small amount, allowing them to buy equipment, to record things, to document things.
Speaker 5:And I can't tell you how successful this To make access more widespread.
Speaker 1:Fund has
Speaker 5:So I hope we can duplicate this effort and we can have in Egypt a grant allowing Egyptian to document the day to day, the things that are disappearing, not just because we're not preserving them, but because of the style of life we're living today, that we're losing other things that felt normal to our parents and our grandparents. But allowing someone to restore the house in, I don't know, mania or doesn't have It's also very much chiro centric or of small centric. So to go out of these familiar places and to encourage the younger generation specifically to document and to preserve and to reinvent as well, that this is what will give it life, I guess.
Speaker 1:Thanks for joining me today on this, Double Take segment where we focus on heritage, culture, and our history. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, subject. You remember you can always leave us your thoughts on all our podcast platforms, on Instagram, on LinkedIn, on TikTok, as well as on our website. I look forward to
Speaker 2:hearing
Speaker 4:from you.