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Need to use a SharePoint intranet due to internal policies, company transitions, or legacy systems? When all the available information is overly technical or negative, where do you turn? Enter Fresh Perspectives: Living in the reality of SharePoint intranets. We provide useful, jargon-free insights and real-world examples to help you maximize the benefits of SharePoint intranets and tackle its challenges. Pro-SharePoint but realistic, we debunk misconceptions and share product management insights from Fresh Intranet.
David [0:00:14]: Welcome to another episode of Fresh Perspectives.
David [0:00:17]: I am David Bowman, Product Director of Fresh
Jarbas [0:00:21]: I'm Jarbas Horst, Senior Product Manager for Fresh.
David [0:00:23]: Joined today by a special guest.
David [0:00:24]: Daniel Amaro from Klarinet Solutions.
David [0:00:26]: Daniel.
David [0:00:27]: Say hello.
Daniel [0:00:28]: Hi.
Daniel [0:00:28]: Nice to be here.
David [0:00:30]: Thank you for coming.
David [0:00:30]: Alright.
David [0:00:31]: Today, we're gonna talk about getting ready for Internet projects dan and Klarinet Solutions have delivered hundreds, maybe thousands of Internet projects in their rich history as a business, and we're gonna talk about some of those things today.
David [0:00:45]: Dan, give us a bit of an intro, Tell us who are Klarinet Solutions.
David [0:00:48]: Who are you?
David [0:00:49]: What do you guys get up to?
Daniel [0:00:51]: Right.
Daniel [0:00:51]: So Klarinet Solutions.
Daniel [0:00:53]: I mean, I would say, you know, we recently talked to a bunch of clients to understand why did they even come to us to work with us, and they said three things.
Daniel [0:01:00]: One is that they're looking to increase productivity.
Daniel [0:01:03]: Two is they're looking to increase the quality of quantity of their communication and three is that they're looking to take a strong culture and make it stronger.
Daniel [0:01:13]: And so What I've been saying and kind of getting with the team around just kind of solidifying this is what we believe, and I've kind of identified three things that we think are really important to, at least communicate.
Daniel [0:01:24]: One is that we believe that the profit or impact depending on what you're looking to to accomplish is really the products of doing the right things.
Daniel [0:01:34]: Second, we believe that when employees are connected, engaged and empowered, they're more likely to be impactful for profitable.
Daniel [0:01:42]: And lastly, the the thing that actually gets us up in the morning is we believe that every employee should have the opportunity to connect their work to meaningful purpose.
Daniel [0:01:50]: And all we focus on at Klarinet is Microsoft three sixty five technology that accomplishes is that.
Daniel [0:01:57]: And that includes Internet.
Daniel [0:01:59]: So very appropriate conversation for today.
David [0:02:02]: Yeah.
David [0:02:02]: And you guys are based in San Diego.
David [0:02:04]: Where are.
David [0:02:05]: And, you know, I guess, as a brits visiting the Us spending time on the West Coast in the East Coast.
David [0:02:11]: You know, Is a there's a pretty sort of clear difference between the two.
David [0:02:14]: You know, nothing bad, No negatives.
Daniel [0:02:16]: Very much.
Daniel [0:02:16]: You
David [0:02:17]: know, and I I guess I've heard it referred to as being the kind of West Coast vibe.
David [0:02:20]: Right?
David [0:02:20]: It's kind of innovation, collaboration, partnership.
David [0:02:24]: Do you think this is a real a real thing and does it affect the way that you do business with your customs?
Daniel [0:02:31]: You know, I'd have to say, man, there's this line from the movie be departed?
Daniel [0:02:35]: Jack.
Daniel [0:02:36]: No.
Daniel [0:02:37]: Because it's the beginning of the film.
Daniel [0:02:38]: Right?
Daniel [0:02:38]: A bad guy.
Daniel [0:02:39]: Bad, bad guy.
Daniel [0:02:40]: But what he says sticks with me, It's really interesting.
Daniel [0:02:42]: Like, do you wanna be a product of your environment or do you want your environment if your product of view?
Daniel [0:02:46]: And I think it's bit of both.
Daniel [0:02:48]: Right?
Daniel [0:02:48]: In a way, like...
Daniel [0:02:49]: And I gotta say that there's no denying that because Klarinet is based in San Diego because I'm born and raised in San diego I've never lived anywhere else.
Daniel [0:02:56]: It does influence how we approach business, how we approach clients, how we approach everything.
Daniel [0:03:01]: And there's even this bit of, like, cross border thing that we have, because I grew up five minutes from the Usa, Mexico border.
Daniel [0:03:08]: Right?
Daniel [0:03:09]: And the majority of people in my town speaks Spanish.
Daniel [0:03:11]: That's just how it is.
Daniel [0:03:13]: Like...
Daniel [0:03:13]: So glare that on top of, you know, this California thing.
Daniel [0:03:17]: When people think of southern California, what do you think of?
Daniel [0:03:20]: Of course, you think of sunshine and waves and surfing and, yes, I do surf.
Daniel [0:03:24]: So it it just...
Daniel [0:03:25]: It's pervasive.
Daniel [0:03:25]: Right?
Daniel [0:03:26]: But what that means in terms of business is I do think it kinda gives us this interesting sort of unique perspective on what's important.
Daniel [0:03:35]: Mh.
Daniel [0:03:36]: And that kind of feeds right into what we believe.
Daniel [0:03:38]: Right?
Daniel [0:03:39]: Well we believe is important is partnership.
Daniel [0:03:41]: If you put a ton of emphasis on this, and we see everyone as a partner.
Daniel [0:03:45]: The employees, the partners, the clients, people who actually come and they're amazing people who help me clean up the office, they're partners.
Daniel [0:03:54]: Everybody's partners.
Daniel [0:03:55]: So that's how we approach everything, and I think think it's...
Daniel [0:03:58]: It's a California, even southern California sort of vibe that we have.
Daniel [0:04:02]: I think that would be true.
Daniel [0:04:03]: Yeah.
David [0:04:04]: I'm pleased to hear that this is a real thing, because it sounds kinda cool.
David [0:04:06]: So I like the.
Daniel [0:04:08]: It's a real big.
Jarbas [0:04:09]: It does.
Jarbas [0:04:09]: Yeah.
David [0:04:09]: It's actually.
David [0:04:10]: Something that's kinda tangible.
David [0:04:11]: Have you got a recent a aha moment or something that's made you smile about the impact the Internet have had, you know, a customer conversation, something in event.
Daniel [0:04:23]: It's a good one.
Daniel [0:04:23]: A recent one that was really, really good.
Daniel [0:04:26]: You know, I think that this was a good one.
Daniel [0:04:29]: We're talking to a perspective client.
Daniel [0:04:32]: Right?
Daniel [0:04:32]: They haven't signed a contract yet.
Daniel [0:04:33]: But we treat everybody the same.
Daniel [0:04:35]: We treat them all like their partners no matter what...
Daniel [0:04:37]: Right?
Daniel [0:04:37]: That's how how we do it.
Daniel [0:04:39]: And the thing that really stuck with me and told me that we're doing the right things.
Daniel [0:04:44]: Is what they said when I was following up and like, hey, how do you wanna move forward with this project?
Daniel [0:04:50]: And they said, you know what?
Daniel [0:04:51]: We're not a hundred percent sure on what technical solution because we proposed a couple of them, but we're really sure about you guys?
Daniel [0:04:58]: That's it.
Daniel [0:04:59]: So that was something that told me, like, what we're trying to do is connect with them at that partnership level, and the technology almost doesn't matter.
Daniel [0:05:07]: It's really the relationship that matters more than anything else.
Daniel [0:05:11]: So hearing that from that client, perspective client was really encouraging.
Daniel [0:05:15]: I think that was a really good story and it was just saying to me that we're doing the right things, and we can fit in whatever technology solution is appropriate as long as we have that relationship.
David [0:05:24]: Yeah.
David [0:05:24]: You know, I think that...
David [0:05:25]: And it sounds like maybe a cliche to say it, but, like, that kind of power of partnership, right, of the technology, it's important in all of these conversations Right?
David [0:05:33]: It is an enabler to delivery, success, cultural change, whatever it happens to be, but it is you know, that kind of the relationship between the human beings that is...
David [0:05:42]: That is really where the where the magic is.
Daniel [0:05:45]: You know, it's funny You say that word cliche to describe that because I I do fear that at the same time.
Daniel [0:05:50]: Right?
Daniel [0:05:50]: That I repeat things or have to say it over and over again, or it's just getting old and stale and cliche kind of implies that.
Daniel [0:05:58]: But in reality, it's worth saying again, Yeah.
Daniel [0:06:01]: You know?
Daniel [0:06:01]: You're right.
Daniel [0:06:02]: Yeah.
Daniel [0:06:02]: I think you're a hundred percent correct that it's the humans.
Daniel [0:06:04]: It's a relationship that really matters.
Daniel [0:06:05]: It's the technology use, like second place.
David [0:06:08]: Yeah.
David [0:06:08]: And look, you, I guess, extending this a little bit.
David [0:06:10]: If you weren't working in digital employee experience, you know, Intra internet wasn't the thing that you were doing?
David [0:06:15]: Where else would you have found this power of partnership, I guess,
Daniel [0:06:20]: I mean, that's a really hard question because I can't see myself doing anything else.
Daniel [0:06:24]: Really, But I would say that I think it goes right down to why I do what I do.
Daniel [0:06:28]: And I look at what I do as let's be clear about what I do.
Daniel [0:06:32]: I lead an organization that is people first.
Daniel [0:06:35]: Right?
Daniel [0:06:36]: That's solution second.
Daniel [0:06:38]: That's looking for things that are impactful to people.
Daniel [0:06:40]: That's what I do.
Daniel [0:06:41]: I lead them to do that work.
Daniel [0:06:43]: And I have a mission of what I'm trying to accomplish, and that really is making the most positive impact we can for our clients and for ourselves, We are no different than our clients.
Daniel [0:06:53]: We treat all of us again, the same.
Daniel [0:06:54]: We're partners all the way through.
Daniel [0:06:56]: So the question really is what else would I be doing besides technology to really do that same thing where I'm just trying to make a positive impact.
Daniel [0:07:04]: I would say I'm fascinated with social psychology, how people think human behavior, what motivates them.
Daniel [0:07:11]: So in that regard, I'd find something where I could apply that kind of passion, no matter what it is.
Daniel [0:07:17]: But other than that honestly, I'd go surfing.
David [0:07:20]: Nice.
David [0:07:20]: Yes.
David [0:07:21]: I was gonna say that that was a that was a much better answer than the one that I gave somebody who asked me a similar question recently, and my response was, I'd be driving those little trains in Disney World in the car park.
David [0:07:31]: I love the idea of being able to do something like that I
Daniel [0:07:34]: I think that sounds like a good idea too, actually.
Daniel [0:07:36]: Not bad me to go.
Daniel [0:07:38]: Yeah.
Jarbas [0:07:39]: But then what, we have worked together, I think, for, seven plus years alright, like in this context of Internet.
Jarbas [0:07:44]: And I know that you have a lot of experience, deliver Internet, so, like, believe like internet project.
Jarbas [0:07:50]: So what's the biggest change you have seen in how organizations think about the digital workplace of you look back like, from how it started and where we are now.
Daniel [0:08:00]: Well, for me, it started about twenty seven years ago.
Daniel [0:08:04]: So, when I was working on an Internet, it was basically Html.
Daniel [0:08:09]: It was pages and pages and pages of links, and information that was Html information.
Daniel [0:08:14]: All of it was just resource intensive sort of information.
Daniel [0:08:17]: And really, I think what has changed what's shifted from that time until now is really how we think about the structures that support people in organizations.
Daniel [0:08:28]: So at that time, twenty seven thirty whatever years ago, Right?
Daniel [0:08:32]: The mindset was much more that we're building a system where people are interchangeable pieces to it.
Daniel [0:08:40]: And what we need is an internet that provides us the stability, the con concur and the resources that allow us to just change these parts out as needed.
Daniel [0:08:50]: And I I think there's still a lot of that actually still today.
Daniel [0:08:53]: That's true.
Daniel [0:08:54]: However, I think we have really matured in general in business, we've matured and we've realized that what we're really dealing with...
Daniel [0:09:02]: I think even with the new generations, it's made it even more apparent, more for at the forefront, we can't ignore anymore.
Daniel [0:09:08]: I think that's really the case.
Daniel [0:09:09]: It's it's never been not the case that people are always humans and they're you need to be treated differently.
Daniel [0:09:14]: It's just now we can't ignore it.
Daniel [0:09:16]: Right?
Daniel [0:09:16]: And so I think that that's what's really changed is the impact that an internet is able to provide the reasons why we wanna build an Internet at all.
Daniel [0:09:24]: I will say that we still build Internet that have resources.
Daniel [0:09:27]: Right?
Daniel [0:09:28]: That make it easy for people to find them to sort them to filter them that now we're leveraging Ai on top of that, all that still applies and where we've kind of elevated the use case of an Internet is where We're starting to talk about employee experience.
Daniel [0:09:43]: How does it feel when you go to an Internet.
Daniel [0:09:46]: Those are words we would never have used twenty seven years ago.
Daniel [0:09:49]: Right?
Daniel [0:09:50]: How does this make you feel?
Daniel [0:09:51]: That was like ridiculous in business?
Daniel [0:09:53]: But now it's really, like, how does this make you feel?
Daniel [0:09:56]: What do you think about this?
Daniel [0:09:58]: What's your input?
Daniel [0:09:59]: How do we get buying in from the people?
Daniel [0:10:00]: Because I think we've realized that you can put all the money you want into an internet solution?
Daniel [0:10:05]: If you have no users that are buying into that solution that are actually leveraging it.
Daniel [0:10:09]: You've got zero Roi.
Jarbas [0:10:11]: Mh.
Jarbas [0:10:11]: I think about the fact that the technology has evolved.
Jarbas [0:10:13]: Also like, helps with the, like, increasing the impact of the Internet.
Jarbas [0:10:17]: Because now, like, it's it's much more well how we can reach people and people like, would be harder to reach in the past, If you think like a front end workers, now, like, via a mobile experience, you can, like, also reach them.
Jarbas [0:10:29]: Right?
Jarbas [0:10:29]: And, like, being contact with the entire organization basically, which is, I think, like, in terms of in back blackberry and helpful.
David [0:10:36]: Yeah.
David [0:10:36]: And, you know, I guess, the other change.
David [0:10:37]: I think you you're kind of hinting on this that you're in in your answer there Daniel that the demands that employees have and end users of intra internet have is increasing all the time as well.
David [0:10:47]: Right?
David [0:10:48]: Know when you think about kind of what an Internet was twenty seven years ago of, you know, list of links on a page somewhere.
David [0:10:52]: What employees are coming to the organization with is a much greater demand for online services for content information to kind of know what's going on and the value that could put in these things has increased significantly in that time.
Daniel [0:11:07]: That's true.
Daniel [0:11:07]: One of the things I think about when you're talking about employed demand.
Daniel [0:11:10]: Right?
Daniel [0:11:10]: What they're actually looking and asking for from an organization, in terms of technology and otherwise.
Daniel [0:11:16]: I always think about the...
Daniel [0:11:17]: It's not so much a dichotomy, but it's it's sort of this relationship that exists between the consumer experience and the employee experience.
Daniel [0:11:25]: And for time, I was kind of thinking that, okay, what's happening is these worlds are converging.
Daniel [0:11:30]: Right?
Daniel [0:11:31]: And it's actually a little bit of both of these two concepts.
Daniel [0:11:33]: The convergence of the consumer experience with the employee experience as well as the consumer experience leads the employee experience, the expected employee experience.
Daniel [0:11:44]: How do I mean What do I mean by that?
Daniel [0:11:45]: What am I I just talking about here?
Daniel [0:11:46]: So let's take for example.
Daniel [0:11:48]: I mean, the one that's relevant really relevant today?
Daniel [0:11:51]: Artificial intelligence?
Daniel [0:11:52]: Right?
Daniel [0:11:53]: So we have now become completely.
Daniel [0:11:56]: I will say this as a blanket statement.
Daniel [0:11:58]: Right?
Daniel [0:11:58]: We are completely used to.
Daniel [0:11:59]: Instead of Googling something, opening the tabs for each of the results, and then sift through those blog posts or articles or whatever information websites, we would use to do.
Daniel [0:12:08]: We're used to now just getting the answer.
Daniel [0:12:10]: Right?
Daniel [0:12:10]: And so that same consumer experience is being expected in the organization as an employee.
Daniel [0:12:16]: Right?
Daniel [0:12:16]: It's a perfect example of that.
Daniel [0:12:17]: Now what I used to think was these things are converging.
Daniel [0:12:19]: And in reality, it kind of leads, but at the same time because the technology is moving so fast.
Daniel [0:12:26]: It's actually doing a bit of both.
Daniel [0:12:28]: It's leading and it's converging.
Daniel [0:12:30]: The lead time used to be about five years when something would happen in the consumer space and then employees would actually expect that in the organization.
Daniel [0:12:37]: That, I believe that timeline has has collapsed.
Daniel [0:12:40]: It's been shortened, and that's really what's going on.
Daniel [0:12:44]: So the reason why we have things like y you were talking about frontline employees, text messages.
Daniel [0:12:50]: Right?
Daniel [0:12:51]: A lot of this is is born out of necessity.
Daniel [0:12:53]: Right?
Daniel [0:12:53]: We have to adapt and change.
Daniel [0:12:55]: We have to change the technology.
Daniel [0:12:56]: And David, to your point, a lot of that is coming from the employees.
Daniel [0:13:00]: Right?
Daniel [0:13:00]: They're expecting this technology to exist in the organization, And one of the questions I would ask, we're in twenty twenty five right now.
Daniel [0:13:08]: This is a question I asked appliances is, it's twenty twenty five outside.
Daniel [0:13:11]: What here is it inside your organization.
Daniel [0:13:14]: And oftentimes that answer is, well, it's twenty twenty, or it's twenty eighteen or God forbid.
Daniel [0:13:19]: It's twenty thirteen in your environment.
Daniel [0:13:21]: Right?
Daniel [0:13:21]: There are some environments where that is the case.
Daniel [0:13:23]: And if it is the case in reality, it feels that way, and that is a problem.
David [0:13:28]: Yeah.
David [0:13:28]: When you get into these conversations with customers, and there is a project that's gotta begin there.
David [0:13:33]: Right?
David [0:13:34]: You know, an Internet project is gonna begin and end that might be a kind of greenfield installing from scratch, it might be uplifting...
David [0:13:41]: Upgrading, changing something from from one state to another improvements.
David [0:13:46]: You know, we...
David [0:13:47]: We've had lots of conversations in the time that we spent together about what does it mean to be ready for an Internet project.
David [0:13:54]: And we've talked about observations of customers that Karma are kind of completely ready for a project.
David [0:14:01]: One of the sort of things that you're looking for there?
David [0:14:03]: What is being ready for an Internet project mean for you.
Daniel [0:14:06]: Oh, my gosh.
Daniel [0:14:06]: That's it can be a minefield field.
Daniel [0:14:08]: But some of the things that I think are very relevant and must haves where we see sort of internet projects that are struggling to be completed.
Daniel [0:14:17]: I would say there's maybe three main components, really.
Daniel [0:14:20]: There's three main components.
Daniel [0:14:21]: Number one is the obvious is we really need to have an executive sponsor someone who's is there, why why the exact sponsor.
Daniel [0:14:28]: Can just say that I need to...
Daniel [0:14:29]: I need...
Daniel [0:14:30]: I feel compelled to say why?
Daniel [0:14:31]: The reason why we have to talk about a executive sponsor is why?
Daniel [0:14:36]: Why are we building Internet.
Daniel [0:14:38]: Right?
Daniel [0:14:38]: Let's connect this to the strategic initiatives of the organization.
Daniel [0:14:42]: If there isn't a strategic imperative to do this, it's not gonna be successful.
Daniel [0:14:46]: And that requires an executive sponsor, whatever that means for you, Senior Vice President, ex a Ceo somebody, I don't know, but that's who it needs to be.
Daniel [0:14:56]: That's the first thing.
Daniel [0:14:56]: The second thing I would say we need to have is not an executive sponsor but a champion.
Daniel [0:15:01]: Someone who is actually going to make sure that the connections are taking place between resources in the organization and things are moving forward.
Daniel [0:15:08]: Right?
Daniel [0:15:09]: Someone who's is tasked with or charged with making sure this is a success.
Daniel [0:15:13]: That's an important piece.
Daniel [0:15:14]: If you don't have those two things, you really can't talk about the third, and the third thing that I see is really a challenge for a lot of people, but can be overcome over time through an Internet project, is content.
Daniel [0:15:25]: That is the hardest thing to do.
Daniel [0:15:28]: Now, there's two kinds of content that I really focus on in Internet.
Daniel [0:15:31]: And there's one is much tougher than other.
Daniel [0:15:34]: There's news content, and what news content really trying to do at a high level is just gain continuity of mission vision values.
Daniel [0:15:41]: Right?
Daniel [0:15:42]: Get people connected.
Daniel [0:15:43]: Get that employee engagement going.
Daniel [0:15:45]: Right?
Daniel [0:15:45]: The employee experience, all those things we're talking about.
Daniel [0:15:48]: The second kind of content that I think about in Internet is more of that resource content.
Daniel [0:15:52]: And that tends to be the stumbling walk.
Daniel [0:15:55]: That is the hardest thing to put together.
Daniel [0:15:57]: Now, with that said though, you can overcome that if you have a good executive sponsor, and you have a good champion.
Daniel [0:16:02]: You're gonna be good to go, but you have to know, and that's something we we work with our clients on in the sales process being fully transparent about what is gonna be expected of them and where we've seen things fall down in these projects.
Daniel [0:16:16]: This really comes down to that content.
Daniel [0:16:18]: But those are the three things I would say that you would need to be ready to this burton an internet project.
David [0:16:24]: I think that kind of champion is interesting because, know, I hear people say, you know, look, executive sponsorship is a kind of, you know, make or break thing for projects are, know, completely agree, but they aren't necessarily the person that is gonna go and make this happen in the organization.
David [0:16:36]: And it can be difficult.
David [0:16:37]: You know, as a vendor walking into those situations where, you know, you're gonna run a project.
David [0:16:41]: You've got some leadership skills in the project team and you're providing some consultancy, but it does need someone on the customer side that is gonna own and love this thing as well.
David [0:16:51]: Right?
Daniel [0:16:52]: Yes.
Daniel [0:16:52]: Agreed.
Jarbas [0:16:53]: But then and I think that not just throughout of the the project and the launch, but, like, also afterwards right, like, when you have delivered the Internet.
Daniel [0:17:00]: I have to repeat a word you said David, because the words we use really, really matter.
Daniel [0:17:04]: Right?
Daniel [0:17:05]: You said love this thing.
Daniel [0:17:07]: Like that implies a lot.
Daniel [0:17:09]: There's a lots unbox with that one word.
Daniel [0:17:11]: Right?
Daniel [0:17:11]: It's such a heavy word that in the Rom com movies, it's like, they don't say it till the very end.
Daniel [0:17:16]: You know what I mean?
Daniel [0:17:16]: That's the kind of word that we're talking about.
Daniel [0:17:18]: But you're a hundred percent correct.
Daniel [0:17:19]: That requires someone to use that word when they're describing that solution.
David [0:17:25]: Yeah.
David [0:17:25]: And, you know, we've spoken to numerous people in the course of making these episodes.
David [0:17:29]: And, you know, I would describe a lot of those people as loving the service that they're providing to their customers.
David [0:17:35]: Right?
David [0:17:35]: They're their committees, They want this to be better.
David [0:17:39]: They take all of the feedback they get for people that organization seriously.
David [0:17:43]: And...
David [0:17:43]: Know, I think that is you know, a kind of really en caps, you know, someone that loves this service, this product that they are putting out to the organization.
Daniel [0:17:51]: Mh
Jarbas [0:17:52]: If we start like looking here what words know how things are happening right now, especially looking at Microsoft and the direction of Microsoft is taking with Sharepoint.
Jarbas [0:18:02]: It is fact that Microsoft is doing a lot of work Sharepoint.
Jarbas [0:18:05]: They have improved the the platform a lot.
Jarbas [0:18:07]: Like, I just came from a call with a client.
Jarbas [0:18:10]: We were talking about flexible layouts and it is so nice to be able to show the home page of the Internet with flexible layouts in the different ways you can design it Now.
Jarbas [0:18:18]: Right?
Jarbas [0:18:18]: So that really helps improve, like, the look and feel of your solution.
Jarbas [0:18:23]: So how do you see kind of Internet's evolving with the Microsoft...
Jarbas [0:18:27]: The...
Jarbas [0:18:27]: Microsoft is taking with this strategy, not like just looking at the improvements that they are doing kind of in on the pages when we think of Sharepoint, but also, like, in terms of Ai, of course.
Jarbas [0:18:37]: I mean, there's
Daniel [0:18:38]: a lot going on.
Daniel [0:18:39]: Right?
Daniel [0:18:40]: So...
Daniel [0:18:40]: Yes.
Daniel [0:18:41]: We talk about flexible.
Daniel [0:18:42]: You're talking about Ai you're talking about we can go down any kind of rabbit hole.
Daniel [0:18:46]: And the thing I must admit Yara, you're talking to a Sharepoint nerd.
Daniel [0:18:50]: So I will go down rabbit holes.
Daniel [0:18:52]: Okay.
Daniel [0:18:53]: So you here's something I'm to think about.
Daniel [0:18:54]: I've been a sharepoint guy for a long time.
Daniel [0:18:55]: And and there's no I do have clients that are still running on prem modern.
Daniel [0:19:01]: And it is night and day difference between what is on prem and what is online.
Daniel [0:19:06]: And when you start working with those two things, you forget when you're on premise, Oh, we don't have that feature.
Daniel [0:19:12]: Oh, we don't have that functionality.
Daniel [0:19:12]: We don't have this.
Daniel [0:19:13]: We don't...
Daniel [0:19:14]: None of that still is there.
Daniel [0:19:15]: None of it's there.
Daniel [0:19:15]: It's mind blowing the strides that Microsoft has made and what they're constantly doing.
Daniel [0:19:21]: And the thing about it, that's so interesting to me is we don't notice it.
Daniel [0:19:24]: It's like this, you know, that kind of analogy of the frog being built away.
Daniel [0:19:29]: Right?
Daniel [0:19:30]: It's slowly happening to us, but it's it's good.
Daniel [0:19:32]: It's actually not as being bull.
Daniel [0:19:34]: I don't know why we're gonna say that.
Daniel [0:19:35]: But anyway, the point being is that...
Daniel [0:19:37]: We're seeing these slow iterative adaptations, additions, feature changes, additions to to Sharepoint, and it's just...
Daniel [0:19:45]: It's making the product so robust.
Daniel [0:19:48]: I would say that we're also seeing this huge swing back into the Microsoft ecosystem, and I think a lot of that has to do with...
Daniel [0:19:57]: And I know we've talked about before David.
Daniel [0:19:59]: So it's not my idea, But a lot of it has to do with the Ai play.
Daniel [0:20:02]: Right?
Daniel [0:20:03]: The idea of being, we have a lot of clients that are coming to us I actually going, hey.
Daniel [0:20:06]: You know what?
Daniel [0:20:06]: I wanna go copilot, I wanna leverage Ai in organization, but I know that if I don't have my content there, it doesn't make a lot of sense.
Daniel [0:20:15]: And so now they're taking another look at Sharepoint, another look at teams.
Daniel [0:20:19]: They're getting serious about adopting these things.
Daniel [0:20:22]: I what that's doing is it's pulling us back into and taking another serious really serious look at Sharepoint based Internet.
Daniel [0:20:28]: Right?
Daniel [0:20:29]: It's almost like this revival of Sharepoint Internet.
Daniel [0:20:31]: Now as far as what the future looks like from there, I would say when we talked about the consumer experience versus the employee experience.
Daniel [0:20:40]: I think that's a really good indicator of where this is going to go, and where opportunity exists.
Daniel [0:20:45]: Right?
Daniel [0:20:45]: Where we need to meet the employees where Microsoft isn't because Microsoft, They're amazing and fantastic.
Daniel [0:20:52]: They're also, like this huge beast that you just can't fight.
Daniel [0:20:55]: People like our anti Microsoft.
Daniel [0:20:57]: I don't understand it.
Daniel [0:20:58]: I'm like, you're...
Daniel [0:20:59]: You can be as anti Microsoft as you want.
Daniel [0:21:00]: I still think you're gonna lose.
Daniel [0:21:02]: So what you need to do is, like, look at it, like, how can I play with Microsoft's ecosystem, where are the gaps and where where are my employees trying to get and how can I provide functionality on top of that, which is one of the things that we actually really love about Fresh Intranet?
Daniel [0:21:18]: Right?
Daniel [0:21:18]: Is because that's the philosophy of Fresh is, let's leverage Microsoft and build where there's gaps.
Daniel [0:21:22]: Let's recognize where those are and do it strategically with intent, but we're not replacing what Microsoft has.
Daniel [0:21:28]: That's that's the smart art.
David [0:21:30]: Grace.
David [0:21:30]: Right smart.
David [0:21:31]: You know, on this, the kind of evolution of digital employee experience in the kind of Ai copilot era, what's your views on consolidating user interface, web parts, pages, down into a single chat box?
David [0:21:47]: You know, do you think that this this is a kind of realistic place that Internet will go?
David [0:21:51]: Is there a browser based user interface?
David [0:21:54]: Or is this just a chat box in the future?
Daniel [0:21:56]: So I think it's a great question and and again, I'm gonna call back to the consumer experience to give us some indication.
Daniel [0:22:02]: Because if we're serious about this idea that the consumer experience is leading the employee experience.
Daniel [0:22:07]: Well, when you to start taking a serious look at is...
Daniel [0:22:10]: What is the consumer experience and where is it going?
Daniel [0:22:13]: So the thing about that, though, if you think about it, what we're looking and seeing is Ai is making a play here.
Daniel [0:22:20]: Right?
Daniel [0:22:21]: So in finding information, something that's a historical use case for an Internet.
Daniel [0:22:25]: Ai must be applied.
Daniel [0:22:27]: It's not a question if H fit should be applied, it must be applied.
Daniel [0:22:31]: Now the danger here that people immediately sort of raise a red flag on is, well, if I do that, I have to govern things, And I haven't been governing things, and I wanna admit I haven't been governing things.
Daniel [0:22:40]: Well, the beauty of it is if it's infinite internet content, the scope of what you're governing is much more su sustained is much more smaller.
Daniel [0:22:49]: Right?
Daniel [0:22:49]: It's easier to wrap your mind around.
Daniel [0:22:51]: So that's that's something I I would say, take...
Daniel [0:22:53]: It's okay.
Daniel [0:22:54]: Just take that and run with that.
Daniel [0:22:55]: That's the first thing.
Daniel [0:22:56]: The second thing I wanna point out though is in the consumer experience, whether we know it or not, we are being conditioned to consume information in a different way.
Daniel [0:23:04]: So the traditional way of of consuming information, I mean, we'll call back to an I was a kid wasn't a newspaper.
Daniel [0:23:10]: Right?
Daniel [0:23:11]: And so if you think about the evolution of websites and website information, it was basically a newspaper layout on a page.
Daniel [0:23:19]: That has changed dramatically.
Daniel [0:23:21]: People are scrolling consuming their information through video, small bite sized chunks, and it's undeniable, you can't help it.
Daniel [0:23:31]: That's the way it's going.
Daniel [0:23:32]: So I'm not saying that we need just throw everything out from an Internet and and start from scratch here because one thing that David and I did earlier this year as we talked about the different generations that exist.
Daniel [0:23:42]: And we're talking about four, sometimes five generations inside of an organization.
Daniel [0:23:47]: And if you're really trying to get that employee engagement and craft the employee experience, you have to hit on all generations, and they have different propensity, different different likes, different ways of consuming information.
Daniel [0:23:59]: With that said, though, there are plenty of gen x ers who are on Tiktok.
Daniel [0:24:03]: Right?
Daniel [0:24:04]: So thinking about all those things and looking at kind of going back to what the two main use cases of information or the types of information on an Internet are being resources and news information, we're gonna have to adapt Internet to meet the employees where they are and and craft the information in such ways that they're used to consuming it.
David [0:24:25]: Yeah.
David [0:24:25]: Because I think there's a...
David [0:24:27]: You know, I guess, my own perspective on this is intra internet are a reflection of an organization's culture.
Daniel [0:24:32]: I agree.
David [0:24:32]: Right.
David [0:24:32]: You know, it's not...
David [0:24:33]: It it isn't the only way that an organization culture is displayed to its employees, but it is one way of reflecting the organization's culture.
David [0:24:40]: And I think there's something will be lost in that if it is reduced down to a single text box on a home homepage.
David [0:24:47]: There's something not quite warm about that experienced people.
David [0:24:51]: But I do think it's gonna mean that organizations need to work a little harder to create something that people want to go to and use.
David [0:24:58]: Right?
David [0:24:59]: And there has to be more emphasis put on what is in it for the employee to come here.
David [0:25:04]: What value are they receiving from this thing and I think it is gonna change the way that we think about delivering success.
David [0:25:10]: You know, I think, you know, you talked about the the champion, the visionary, the exact stakeholder.
David [0:25:15]: Those things are worth doing because it is important to be able to convey the culture of the business through this thing.
Jarbas [0:25:21]: If you think like of the chat right, over the chat, that would also require the user to know what they they are looking for.
Jarbas [0:25:28]: Right?
Jarbas [0:25:28]: Because they would need to come up with their own use cases, like, they want to get latest news, so I I need, like, to go there and asset specifically for that.
Jarbas [0:25:36]: While, like, the Internet home page, for example, already provide us a lot of of that structure, and it's just, basically for me to go there and consume, like, a way by push push notifications they can also, reach and bring the information to people.
David [0:25:49]: In your experiences of working with customers on Internet projects.
David [0:25:53]: You know, there is a there's a big kind of organizational change element to running these projects.
David [0:25:59]: Right?
David [0:26:00]: Mh.
David [0:26:00]: Less so if you're replacing something that's very successful already.
David [0:26:03]: Right, kind of, you know, upgrading a successful sharepoint Intra internet or moving from one technology to the other people kind of understand what that looks like?
David [0:26:10]: In an organization where they perhaps not had something.
David [0:26:13]: Do you think that organizations underestimate the change elements of these projects or perhaps over overestimate.
Daniel [0:26:22]: I would say that they don't know to underestimate or overestimate.
Daniel [0:26:25]: I believe that what I found anyway in in these...
Daniel [0:26:28]: Let's cover a couple things here.
Daniel [0:26:30]: In my opinion, I'm saying these words with intent.
Daniel [0:26:33]: An internet project, if you have nothing already, it should be changing the organization, it should be making a a positive impact strategic impact to the organization, It should be doing something.
Daniel [0:26:46]: If it's not doing something, I don't wanna do it.
Daniel [0:26:49]: So we actually select our clients that are ready and want that kind of change, because that's what we're trying to do.
Daniel [0:26:56]: Right?
Daniel [0:26:57]: What I would say though is that they don't know how to get that change.
Daniel [0:27:01]: More often than not.
Daniel [0:27:02]: And the piece that we...
Daniel [0:27:04]: I think see that's kind of missing is really focusing on the human element.
Daniel [0:27:10]: One of the things I talk about is ownership because in order to get changed or people to actually use your solution, they, in my opinion, I want them to feel like they have some sort of ownership and agency over it.
Daniel [0:27:24]: And so what that often entails or requires in an Internet project is well, including them in the process, which is tough if you're talking about a two thousand person organization, but it's not impossible.
Daniel [0:27:36]: Right?
Daniel [0:27:37]: And that's really the key.
Daniel [0:27:38]: So I think there's should be organizational change that that's baked into an Internet project and how to get it is really the challenge.
Daniel [0:27:44]: I think people don't understand that, and that can be paralyzing.
Jarbas [0:27:48]: So what would be, like, your piece of advice organizations that are the process of, introducing a new Internet or are looking, like, for new Internet, based like on your lot of the experience that you have already, like, twenty seven years delivering Internet projects.
Daniel [0:28:01]: I have to always go back to why.
Daniel [0:28:03]: We really need to answer that question.
Daniel [0:28:05]: At least you don't need to answer it, but you at least gotta ask.
Daniel [0:28:08]: Right?
Daniel [0:28:09]: I feel like a lot of people don't even ask why They say, oh, I think we need that.
Daniel [0:28:13]: That's not a good enough reason to do anything.
Daniel [0:28:15]: I just feel like or think we need it.
Daniel [0:28:17]: You really need to understand what you're trying to drive towards what you're trying to do why you're trying to do it.
Daniel [0:28:22]: And I think, you know, David said something that that's really, really relevant here is that really, an internet is a reflection of the culture.
Daniel [0:28:30]: It's either a reflection of the culture you have, which may not be the best reflection or or what you want, but it can be a reflection of the culture that you want to have.
Daniel [0:28:40]: Right?
Daniel [0:28:41]: So if you're trying to change that culture, on Internet could be a good place to start, and that's a solid why.
Daniel [0:28:46]: But that's what I would say people really need to focus on before they embark on trying to find some sort of solution is really, really having that compelling reason and understanding it as best they can.
Daniel [0:28:57]: Ask the question at least.
Daniel [0:28:58]: It a great book.
Daniel [0:28:59]: Starting with why?
Daniel [0:29:00]: Hundred percent.
Daniel [0:29:01]: Simon zen.
Daniel [0:29:01]: Amazing.
Daniel [0:29:02]: Yes.
David [0:29:03]: Okay.
David [0:29:03]: Alright.
David [0:29:04]: You know, I meet organizations.
David [0:29:06]: I'm sure you do as well that, you know, perhaps on the Fence back interest.
David [0:29:09]: You know, if someone at an event recently said to me.
David [0:29:11]: You know, oh, Dave, Intra internet.
David [0:29:13]: What a blast from the past.
David [0:29:15]: I haven't thought about intra internet in years.
David [0:29:18]: And, you know, I Haven't heard this line for a while.
David [0:29:21]: But, you know, I guess there are organizations out there that are on the fence about Intra internet.
David [0:29:26]: What would you say to an organization that is sort of debating about whether they need something like this?
Daniel [0:29:32]: Oh, there's a few things that come to mind here.
Daniel [0:29:34]: Right?
Daniel [0:29:34]: As far as like, why couldn't same thing like, why would you need Internet at all?
Daniel [0:29:38]: I do believe that there is, at some point, there's critical mass necessary.
Daniel [0:29:42]: With that said, I mean, we're not a hundred and fifty employees at Klarinet, and we have an Internet.
Daniel [0:29:47]: Right?
Daniel [0:29:47]: Of course, we do.
Daniel [0:29:48]: So first of all, it's a critical mass.
Daniel [0:29:50]: The second thing is interesting.
Daniel [0:29:51]: I've been thinking about this lately, and, I'm gonna put together a blog post around this, and it's really around a hierarchy of needs for internal communications.
Daniel [0:29:59]: And the foundation of a lot we're trying to accomplish in internal communications and getting employee engagement, alignment, all those things happening is having a reliable, reasonable easily manageable piece that provides that communication and more often than not an Internet is a way to do that.
Daniel [0:30:20]: And one thing I wanna make sure that we're very clear on is an internet is not the only way.
Daniel [0:30:25]: We're not suggesting that.
Daniel [0:30:26]: None of us would agree to that here at all, but it is one major component.
Daniel [0:30:30]: And so what I find what's interesting, David is that you can sense when you're talking to people their level of satisfaction with the culture of the organization.
Daniel [0:30:40]: And what I have found anecdotally is that those who are not satisfied with the culture that they have, don't have an internet.
Daniel [0:30:48]: So that's a good start.
David [0:30:50]: Well, have one that don't rate it.
Daniel [0:30:52]: Right.
Daniel [0:30:52]: Well, you know, we'll go back to that word love.
Daniel [0:30:54]: Right?
Daniel [0:30:54]: One of the questions we love to ask people is what do you love about your Internet?
Daniel [0:31:00]: Right?
Daniel [0:31:00]: It's a great question.
David [0:31:02]: Yeah.
David [0:31:02]: Well, I love a dramatic question.
Daniel [0:31:04]: But it's a solid one.
Daniel [0:31:05]: That's great because it...
Daniel [0:31:06]: It inspires them to think about what they actually like about and love about it.
Daniel [0:31:10]: And if they can't answer it, then they need to think a bit more.
David [0:31:14]: Alright.
David [0:31:14]: Let's bring this to a close today with a couple of questions for you, Dan.
David [0:31:17]: What are you most excited about?
David [0:31:20]: In the future of work.
David [0:31:22]: Doesn't necessarily need to be Intra internet specific.
David [0:31:24]: Is this something that you...
David [0:31:25]: You know, you're very excited about at the moment in this area.
Daniel [0:31:28]: I actually, am there's something that it has nothing to do with technology.
Daniel [0:31:30]: Actually, everything is do with it.
Daniel [0:31:32]: But anyway, it's really more around this idea that I think is starting to really take flight in business in that we cannot treat people like Cogs in a machine.
Daniel [0:31:43]: And that means we have to look at technology differently as well.
Daniel [0:31:46]: That I think is happening, and it's going to continue to happen, and those are the kinds of people that I wanna talk to work with partner with.
Daniel [0:31:53]: Right?
Daniel [0:31:53]: So that is exciting.
Daniel [0:31:55]: I think that's happening for sure.
Jarbas [0:31:57]: And maybe like, the the final question.
Jarbas [0:31:58]: So what does currently, your favorite app.
Jarbas [0:32:01]: So that doesn't need to be within the context of Microsoft and any app.
Daniel [0:32:06]: I gotta go c copilot it.
Daniel [0:32:06]: Right.
Daniel [0:32:07]: I mean, I just...
Daniel [0:32:08]: I leverage C copilot all the time for different things and and I'm pretty excited about it.
Daniel [0:32:12]: It's hate to be cliche right, David, but Ai right now is pretty darn exciting.
Daniel [0:32:17]: So for me, that's what it is.
David [0:32:20]: Yeah.
David [0:32:20]: You, I think it's it's one of those applications.
David [0:32:22]: You know, I'm I've admit, you, I'm not a huge user of c copilot, but it's one of those things that I now don't think that I could do without it.
David [0:32:30]: You know, I just think from that kind of summarizing meetings, putting together notes, asking at questions about, you know, lengthy stuff that I've got a read, you know, I think this is...
David [0:32:39]: It's...
David [0:32:39]: I can't imagine not having it anymore now.
David [0:32:41]: Yep.
Daniel [0:32:42]: Maybe they're doing research, getting sync answers a bit...
Daniel [0:32:46]: On deep research.
Daniel [0:32:47]: Amazing.
Jarbas [0:32:48]: Yes.
Jarbas [0:32:48]: We also chat like we've a...
Jarbas [0:32:50]: Like, we've called Pilot who use like, the voice mode as well?
Daniel [0:32:53]: I use both.
Daniel [0:32:53]: Yeah.
David [0:32:54]: Same here.
David [0:32:54]: Yeah.
David [0:32:55]: We've had a number of people that Said.
David [0:32:56]: On the dog walk seems to be the sort of common the common time that people are having kind of verbal conversations with this thing, you know, walking around the local park, walking the dog talking a copilot seems to be the the new
Daniel [0:33:08]: super interesting.
Daniel [0:33:09]: Way to go?
Daniel [0:33:09]: Copilot therapy.
David [0:33:11]: Yeah.
David [0:33:11]: Come find therapy.
David [0:33:12]: Yes.
Jarbas [0:33:12]: Love, but
David [0:33:13]: I suspect that that's happening as well.
David [0:33:14]: And dan, for people that want to get in touch with you talk to you, what's the best way for people to do this.
Daniel [0:33:20]: Honestly, I'm on Linkedin all the time, maybe too much.
Daniel [0:33:23]: As you guys probably know.
Daniel [0:33:24]: So look me up on Linkedin Daniel Amaro, Klarinet Solutions you'll find me.
David [0:33:29]: Amazing.
David [0:33:29]: Thanks so much for joining us.
Jarbas [0:33:31]: Thank you down.
Daniel [0:33:31]: Thank you, guys.
Daniel [0:33:32]: Cheers.