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Want a peak behind the curtain into one of the best places to work in cybersecurity and the minds of the innovators behind the industry’s leading security operations platform? Tune in to The Howler podcast!
Hosted by Chelsea Lowman, People Experience Specialist, and Mary Newville, People Experience Senior Manager, the culture duo connects with pack leaders on leadership insights, mental health and overall wellbeing, and how they lead their teams to advance our mission of ending cyber risk.
The Howler - Episode 8
Chelsea Lowman 0:00
Hi, welcome back to the hilar Podcast. I'm Chelsea.
Mary Newville 0:04
And I'm Mary.
Chelsea Lowman 0:05
And we are on Episode Eight of the podcast. Wow. And it's May, which is a very exciting time here at Arctic Wold, because it's the start of our new fiscal year. So there's just like a lot of energy and excitement about the New Year heads. So yeah, a really fun month to be here at Arctic Wolf, I would say.
Mary Newville 0:27
And I would say yes, it's a fun month. But today, specifically, recording day has been a really special day at the pack. So to debrief everybody on the day Chelsea and I have had so far is we started our day, with a global celebration of Eid at Arctic Wolf. It's Arctic Wolf's first time ever celebrating this Muslim holiday. So huge shout out to happy wolves honoring Asian and Pacific Islanders. They planned a really thoughtful celebration, with some of our Muslim PAC members sharing about the holiday and how they celebrate. And all of our offices had different treats. So I enjoyed some black lava. But that was really special. And then Chelsea and I just got out of spending the morning with six students on site for a panel interview the finalists in our pack unity scholarship program. It was such a special morning, Chelsea, do you want to talk a little bit about the vision for the pack unity scholarship? Yes.
Chelsea Lowman 1:31
So right now we, we this is the third fourth year that we've done the scholarship program, and we visit local Minnesota schools. We expanded this year to three new schools. And we go in and we share about the cybersecurity industry, cybersecurity careers. And we really just try to expose students to a pathway that maybe they haven't even heard of. And in addition to that, we also provide them with training videos and learning resources so that they can learn how to keep themselves safe online, and then hopefully extend that new knowledge to their loved ones. So this is all in the goal, to continue to increase diverse representation within the industry. And we really feel like here at Arctic Wolf, we can be leaders and creating a more diverse and Representative cybersecurity workforce. So we have the finalists in this morning, and did a panel interview with them. And like Mary said, I mean, they just renewed our hope for the future. Like we just kept repeating, they were so articulate, and just kind and intelligent, and positive. And I just Just amazing young people, like I have nothing but good things to say about them.
Mary Newville 2:58
Totally. And I mean, I personally was inspired by these students, all of them shared about their hopes and dreams. And many of them just want to do good every day and be kind to those around them and teach instill those values in their family someday. But Chelsea and I witnessed a random act of kindness today, one of our scholarship winners, so the the two winners get a scholarship plus a laptop. And I overheard one of our winners say that he would be giving his laptop to somebody else from his school that was a finalist but didn't win today, and he didn't make big a big fanfare or show of it at all. I just happened to be behind him when he said it. And I told Chelsea I was like Chelsea, I just heard him say he's gonna give his laptop to this other kid. But as I don't say anything, just in case I misheard. I don't want to put that out there accidentally. But then Chelsea then witnessed him later, kind of sneak it off to his friends. So he could have kept that and sold it or giving it to a friend. But it was just really, it was inspiring to me. His act of generosity and his humbleness. So, yeah, it's the future if they're like the crew that was in today, make me really hopeful. They're kind. They're optimistic, and they have big dreams for making a positive difference. So
Chelsea Lowman 4:21
for sure, yeah, it was such a special moment. And to Mary's Point, I mean, these were really nice. MacBooks like he could have made some money off that. But instead, he chose to give that to another finalist. And it was just so beautiful. And we just were feeling all the warm and fuzzies. And I hope that continues on into the podcast into our discussion with Andrew because I'm just I'm feeling good. Absolutely. I
Mary Newville 4:48
feel just it's one of those days where I'm just writing on a pack. Hi. Like, I feel so proud and inspired to be part of this such a special community. Mm hmm, does geeking out I'm speaking of our guests today's guests is Andrew Burback. He's our Chief Information Officer and our Senior Vice President of Operations. Andrew has led articles business operations since April of 2018. Before joining, he was director of operations at Perforce Software, where he oversaw all lead to cache operational functions. And prior to that he served, served as Senior Manager of sales operations and renewals at code 42. We're so excited to get to know Andrew a little bit better today. So let's jump into our conversation. Okay, Andrew, welcome to the Howler podcast. We're so excited you're here today
Andrew Burback 5:37
giddy up here we are
Mary Newville 5:40
thrilled that you're not as excited as we are. But genuinely I'm excited this conversation to get to know you personally, as well.
Andrew Burback 5:48
I think I told you earlier you know, if there's one thing talking about yourself as always, it's not my forte. So here we are. We'll talk about we'll talk about myself and Arctic Wolf and whatever else you got, too, so
Chelsea Lowman 6:00
Okay, well, we're gonna ease into it because we always like to have a little fun at the start of the podcast. So as Mary kind of alluded, we did we don't know you as well as some of the other guests we've had on. So we reached out to Kristen Dean and we were like, what what do we know about burbs? And she was like, okay, he's from Wisconsin, and he loves Wisconsin Sports sell Oh.
Andrew Burback 6:25
Oh, no. Names it's like it's it's not even a thing like you know, name that will.
Chelsea Lowman 6:32
We'll just have fun. We're just gonna We're just having fun. No pressure, but I have some it's Wisconsin slash Wisconsin Sports trivia.
Andrew Burback 6:41
This is gonna be brutal. I was hoping it was Would You Rather you can't screw that up. But
Chelsea Lowman 6:49
by but this is more fun. This is more fun. Okay, so the first question, the Wisconsin Badgers ice hockey teams have won many NCAA national titles. How many total? Both men and women have they won?
Andrew Burback 7:05
Oh, I think the women are six or seven. The men? Two or three? I'd say nine.
Chelsea Lowman 7:13
Okay, you are on the right track. So the total is 13 men have won six women have won seven. So you didn't know about the women?
Andrew Burback 7:23
I have. I have two kids in hockey. And in my daughter follow the Badgers closely this last year the Badger woman so okay,
Chelsea Lowman 7:32
see that wasn't bad. You like a little bit? A little bit.
Mary Newville 7:39
That her assist in helping you get the question right today.
Andrew Burback 7:42
My college dorm overlook the call center so that's where they played hockey.
Chelsea Lowman 7:47
Okay. Okay, nice. Okay, this one is not sports. This is just general Wisconsin trivia. The very first kindergarten classes were held by a German by a German couple in 1856. In what Wisconsin city and I it's I made it multiple choice for you. A to rivers. B Milwaukee. C. Appleton or D Watertown.
Andrew Burback 8:15
Milwaukee I would think it's the biggest city it's I'm awake. No, that's not your time. From where I grew up, really?
Chelsea Lowman 8:29
I spent a lot of time in Watertown. My aunt lives there. Sun
Andrew Burback 8:33
Prairie is home for me. So okay, okay. Yes.
Chelsea Lowman 8:37
Watertown right behind the school is behind the Octagon House. If you've ever heard of Octagon House, no.
Andrew Burback 8:43
I'm learning something every day they say and what is you know? That we are learning?
Chelsea Lowman 8:52
Yeah, well, if you ever make it to Watertown, Wisconsin, the first ever kindergarten classes in the US. Were there. Yeah. Okay, two more. Um, we are recording this in April. So in honor of Earth Day, Earth Month. I'm the founder of Earth Day is from Wisconsin. What is their name?
It's multiple choice. I don't know if that'll help you. It might just sound like random names, but
Andrew Burback 9:24
I was gonna say Joe, but
Chelsea Lowman 9:27
a Gaylord Nelson. Be Denis Hayes. See Selma Rubin or D Mark McKinney Magennis? I'm
Andrew Burback 9:38
gonna say Gaylord Nelson because it sounds familiar. And I don't know if it was trivia. I knew. I think it was a governor and I yeah,
Chelsea Lowman 9:47
that is correct. Senator Gaylord Nelson is from Wisconsin and Mary has a fun fact about that.
Mary Newville 9:55
Well, he grew up in my small town of Clear Lake Wisconsin. He grew up Been Clear Lake and then became Senator so that's my small towns claim to fame. So when Chelsea was looking at trivia questions yesterday, I was like, Oh,
Andrew Burback 10:06
I didn't know you were Wisconsin. Where's Clear Lake? It's not turtle lake.
Mary Newville 10:10
It's near turtle Lake though. It's like 15 miles from turtle Lake.
Andrew Burback 10:15
Cabin in northern Wisconsin and mine on okay. is on the way. Yes. cottage for those in Canada to cabin here cottage? Yeah,
Chelsea Lowman 10:27
I was gonna say if our global pack this probably sounds like gibberish but we're just talking Midwest small towns Okay. All right. And the last question the first cheese head was worn at what Wisconsin Sports teams game like what what sports team
Andrew Burback 10:50
it has to be the Packers
Chelsea Lowman 10:52
now. Currently it was at a Milwaukee Brewers game.
Andrew Burback 10:57
What was probably at a Milwaukee Braves game trail raiser for the brewers. I think maybe I'm wrong on that. Maybe it was the other order.
Chelsea Lowman 11:04
This is what the internet told me. Don't quote me. On that was a fun little tricky one because obviously we all would have thought the Packers.
Andrew Burback 11:14
I know that was a layup question, but I guess
Chelsea Lowman 11:19
I thought maybe it was one of those niche things that like Wisconsin people now, you know, like, the rest of the world thinks it's the Packers, but we know that it's no, no. Either way. This was fun. You learned a little bit about your home state. We learned a little bit about your home state. Now we can get into the hard hitting questions.
Andrew Burback 11:39
Okay, here we go. Here
Mary Newville 11:40
we go. Okay, well, you talked a little about how your college dorm overlooks call center, the call center. So it looks like we're doing a little research, you studied accounting in college, and then started out as an accountant at Target. So tell us a little bit about your journey and how you went from accounting to being the CIO at a cybersecurity company.
Andrew Burback 12:02
Yeah, it's kind of funny. Yeah, I think when I went to school, I wanted to, my mom was in accounting, and I was always told kind of accounting was the language of business. So I said, Well, I'm gonna get my degree in accounting, I always had a knack for numbers. And, and, and did that it turns out though, after a year and a half or so of, of doing it, and I was at a big company, it was target, you know, I don't know, 100,000 employees, you're very segmented. And what you do, you you, you get to spend, you know, I was I was in real and personal property tax, and I did accrual accounting for this, this certain, certain area, and like I said, after about a year and a half, I said, I don't think this is for me, it's too regimented, there's, it's the same monthly calendar, I just needed a little more variety. So I actually took a took a chance and moved into sales, it took me like, it took me like six months to try to get a sales job from a connection that, that my, someone my, my wife worked with, I networked with a spouse and it took me like six months or like, we're not gonna hire an accountant into sales. And after, after many, many tries, they finally took a chance on that. And ultimately, it was, you know, it was a number of different sales roles, whether it was a sales development, rep, pounding the phone, a partner manager, a channel manager, and all of those roles, I was always, always kind of a problem solver, that I would complain about something and my boss would say, go talk to it, go talk to it. And, and then when we decided to have have a family, I was traveling too much. And I moved into management and sales management, where I started to learn more about kind of more systems because as an inside sales leader, you're you're always trying to figure out the systems and manage the systems. So it was just kind of natural that that the technology piece and the sales piece, which which moved into operations from there. So inside team managed a sales operations team and renewals team and SDR, you know, kind of did all those roles, but they were always at a smaller company, where most of the technology or a lot of the technology at a smaller company is actually built around the sales marketing motion. It's actually no different than article we have so many pieces of technology in that kind of revenue operations area. So I spent a lot of time you know, learning the technology and working with kind of on the business side with the IT organizations. And then over time it just kind of blended into starting to run some portions of it. You different portions of it. I did a couple years at a company called Perforce that was an integrator that was focused on integrations of m&a targets. It was kind of a consolidation play from a PE firm. And, and it turns out a lot of the integration, is it integration. So got a lot of experience there. And when I came to Arctic Wolf, it was really to get that order to cash, kind of business systems business operations stood up and then just branched off from there. So I don't know, it's, there's probably a few more stories in there in between. That's kind of how it came to be running the technology side of the business. Yeah. And I would say sorry, the benefit of that is, I think one of the benefits is being on the business side. And now being on the technology side, you get a feeling for the stakeholders that you support. Because it's in some instances, not at all, but in some, you know, I've been in my I've been in their shoes, and one of the goals of some of the teams is to get some people that have been in the business issues to understand what they feel what they what they're doing, because you can be a better partner to help them kind of provide solutions.
Chelsea Lowman 16:16
Yeah, that totally makes sense. And I was gonna say, it's so nice to kind of hear you explain your career journey, because on paper, it's like, okay, how do we get from accounting to leading it, like, it feels like, it's like a really big leap, you know, but even in hearing your story, I mean, I'm assuming there was still like a learning curve, even going for like, from accounting to sales, I can kind of see like, you know, the soft skills needed and things like that, but like, learning IT systems feels like, like, what was that kind of process? Like,
Andrew Burback 16:48
there was always kind of a technologist at heart. So like, I always tinkered with technology had different technology, like, so, you know, am I going to be able to, you know, write 10,000 lines of code? No, but I don't have like, right, you don't have to do that. Right. So I think we have really smart people that that can take on the really challenging problems that we have. And I think part of leading it is just kind of, is up leveling a little bit, or trying to looking at it from a less technical standpoint, because most of our steak, like, I just want X it's they don't like the stakeholders don't care about the ones and zeros, they just want their laptop to work, or I want to help us take it alright. So so some of the problems you have as, as a leader of the of the team, you don't necessarily you don't necessarily have to have stood in every spot, I do think it's great to a lot of the teams I lead I've, I've worked or done a lot of their functions. And I would say that's different on some of the core IT side, but I've worked so closely for so long with them. You know, I've learned I you never say it's easy. You can say it's straightforward. That was like something I learned when working on. Like, it's so easy, like, no, it's straightforward. It doesn't mean it's easy. So I think, the accounting side, every day, you're like, you know, now it's budgets and expenses. And, you know, op x versus capex, like that background has been is absolutely helpful and use it every day.
Chelsea Lowman 18:28
Yeah, totally. And I think back to kind of talking about not needing to be in the weeds for everything or have necessarily all the IT knowledge to be able to lead the tech piece. So often you hear from leadership, like a good part of being a leader is to like, hire the right people, and then get out of the way and provide the support that they need. And you know, what else speak for them in rooms when you need to, but like letting people just do their jobs is so important. So, yeah,
Andrew Burback 19:01
I'll have an opinion on something. But there's smarter people than me on how to solve the problem. I'll give one view but take the best view that that works. And let's do that. That
Mary Newville 19:11
was great. We're gonna take a quick pause right now to hear a security win from one of our security services pack members.
Speaker 1 19:18
My name is Meg Warren. I'm a triage security engineer from our Pleasant Grove, Utah office. A short time ago, I received a ticket from a customer that was receiving a large number of restricted country login alerts. They had responded to a ticket asking us to make a change in suppression, but I was curious about the issue as a whole. So I took a look at all of their past login tickets, and all their current restricted country login tickets. I then went through all of their suppressions and reconfigured those so that they would better fit the customer's needs. After that, I worked with the Concierge Team to come up with some intel some ticket notes that would make it easier for us to configure future suppressions to better fit those needs. The customer was very happy with our results and did benefit with more relevant Learning. This was a good security one for me because it proved to me the importance of owning the outcome, which is one of our core tenants. When we own the outcome on even small issues like restricted country login alerts, it can make a big change for the customer. Okay, well,
Chelsea Lowman 20:15
I know you shared a little bit about how you went from accounting to now being, you know, the CIO. We do know before an article if you were at code 42, we had a lot of folks at code 42 Before article, so kind of what made you originally interested in cybersecurity specifically like this industry?
Andrew Burback 20:35
Yeah, the industry? I think. So right before article, I actually did two years at a company called Perforce, which was in the DevOps space. Insecurity would constantly come up with with that company of things like the supply chain and the development lifecycle of how you write, write code and develop. So that was one that I knew there was a problem, but probably what what got me most interested is I wanted something that no one had solved yet. And, like cybersecurity seemed like no one had solved the problem yet. You know, why Arctic Wolf? Earlier in my career, I had been at a number of different smaller technology companies. And I thought, the fast I wanted to find somewhere that was like fast growing technology, because it afforded myself great opportunities, both personally and professionally. And, and it's, it's really fun to be somewhere where you can build and like, make an impact. I had done the 100,000 seat target company, and I like, it wasn't for me, I had done the 100,000 seat, you know, Dell organization and great company. But it's really hard to make you're like make an impact. So I wanted both. I want to build a company where I felt like I could make an impact where you were like excited to come to work, there was real problems to solve. But in the industry that no one had figured it out yet, because it presented fast growth Tech, I thought, and it presented great opportunities.
Mary Newville 22:09
Yeah, totally. I mean, that's one of my favorite things about being an Arctic wolf as well. It's just the opportunity to create and build and chart our own path and do what people have never done before. And all the impact that and growth that comes with that. Yeah.
Andrew Burback 22:23
And I think what's what's great about it now, right, I've been here for going on six years. So we were 100 employees now work 24 2500, you still come to work, and there's still problems to solve each day, and you can still make an impact and move them forward. So there's not a lot of bear. I mean, there's more, there's more stakeholders to work across now. But everyone's kind of wanting to, we haven't figured it all out yet. So there's still there's still problems to solve. So that's what kind of keeps it keeps it engaging.
Mary Newville 22:53
Yeah, absolutely. I know, I'm approaching year four. And I feel like there's new problems, and they're just different. You know, like now there's international chat, you know, growing internationally and new offices and acquisitions and never a dull day. Days, tell us a little bit about a day in your life, what are the types of projects and tasks you and your team are working on the problems you're solving for the org, and maybe to a recent accomplishment that your team has done that you're proud of?
Andrew Burback 23:24
Yeah, regular day. I don't know if there's anything really special about my regular day versus any others. At the end of the day, it's a you know, there's usually I usually have one meeting with one of kind of, I have six different direct reports. So one of those people, we probably have a one on one to talk through things. But other than that, it's we have some bigger projects, or you know, organizationally, we're working through objectives for the year. So there's probably some discussion on some of those, or we're somewhere in a project, but most of the day is spent like problem solving or breaking down a roadblock or providing clarity to the team of something that, you know, maybe I didn't give enough guidance on something or the goal or the like, my day is pretty interactive. With the team going across a lot of different areas. I'm trying to think of a like a recent accomplishment that something that we've that the team has put a lot of work into both cross functionally is as a business we we've transformed from just this MDR only provider to multiple products. And, you know, the sales analytics team and the BI team and Biz Ops have been working to get the product organization and in the sales organization better reporting around that. So we've been on a two or three month project to try to really harness some of the data we have to provide insights to the business. So So that one's pretty exciting in terms of, of a project that will have output to the business that that was cross functional in nature, but also took time. It's a it's an analysis of our subscription products and all of our agreements we have with customers. But But yeah, I don't think there's any, like, there's not a typical day back to the why. Why do I like accounting versus where i, where i chose, I wanted to sales because it seemed like there wasn't a typical day. And I would say none of my days are the same. There's always something there's always something different, which, which makes it you know, a little more enjoyable, at least for for me. Yeah,
Mary Newville 25:30
no, totally. I mean, we had we Chelsea and I mentioned in the intro to the podcast today about how we had six scholarship candidates in today from local high schools here in Minneapolis. And they asked us, the Arctic wolf folks that were there about what a typical day in our life was, and was fun just to talk through them. Like there really is no typical day, especially in Arctic wolf world. And each day brings different challenges and projects and collaborating with different folks. But I will say something that we're really grateful for as if you will, an accomplishment from your team. But speaking of the scholarship program, we have a really small budget right now for volunteerism and giving back, because we're privately funded. And we're just flexing the muscle to be ready for when we have a larger, give back budget. But because of that, we got creative and partnered with your IT team and they wiped and create like got four really nice laptops ready for us so that we could get four of them to the students today, in addition to the scholarship dollars to be able to get more students. So just like so cool to partner with the team. I mean, we love partnering with your IT team, they're amazing. And they just do an incredible job supporting the path but also helping us with onboarding. And, and even things like today, the scholarship program was really cool to come together and, and make a difference. Like their faces, they didn't know that we also had the laptops to give and their faces just lit up when we pulled them out. So
Andrew Burback 27:07
mill lasts a long time. So that's awesome. That's, that's awesome.
Chelsea Lowman 27:12
Um, okay, we're gonna switch gears a little bit, we're gonna talk about leadership, and you've referenced, you know, you do have a background in sales. And so I'm just curious, you know, with your, with your background, and then currently leading sales operations, what are some skills you think you've learned throughout your sales career that has helped you just become a better leader?
Andrew Burback 27:37
I'd probably say that. So critical thinking is obviously it's important, probably not something I learned throughout sales ops, I mean, every decision you make, there's this aspect of critical thinking that's important. But I think the, the skill that's probably been the most as a leader is that results sometimes take time. And when you're, you know, within sales operations and examples, you're, you're making a compensation plan, and you're trying to plan for the year, or you're changing how we go to market. And, well, you like you want the easy button. I think it's the like, it's, it's the patients and that, like results take a little time. And I think that's important as a leader, because it can be frustrating that you just like, you want the change that you're you're asking, you know, maybe you hired someone or you're seeing a behavior or you're like, there's something going on, it's probably that results take a little bit of time, and after, after enough repetition or time, like ship does turn or the the team does come together or like that's probably that's probably one that that I've I've learned how to offense because of just sales ops, but that's in general that you can't flip a light switch open in different areas as much as you want to. And it's also something that that each of my leaders like right when, when we're talking here, you have a challenge, it just takes a little like you have to have a little patience even though I'm not a patient person doesn't come naturally. But that it does take a little time.
Chelsea Lowman 29:23
But that makes sense. Just given some of the people that I know that work in sales in general, maybe not necessarily sales operations, but I've never worked in sales but I didn't really understand that sometimes like a deal could take months or like years of like continuing the relationship building with a client and all those things like in my mind you make the call they say yes sir. Now, you either made the sale or not. I mean, I obviously don't think that anymore but early on, like straight out of college that's what I thought sales was so I could see how to your point like results take time and you know, Do you do have to, like cultivate those relationships and be patient. But I'm also not a patient person either. So I can relate. So I can see how that maybe you learned some of that through sales. There's
Andrew Burback 30:12
a book, both my kids, I wish I had, like a have like a wooden book of it that as a sales leader gave to me, and it was about like, a little kid who planted a carrot, and he watered it every day watered every day. And you know, and ultimately, you know, six months later, everyone told him, it wasn't gonna grow, and then he pulled the carrot out of the ground. It's kind of you know, that sales is hard. Like, I don't think people understand how hard it is, you know, to wake up every three months at Arctic Wolf, and you're back to zero, and you're like, you have to fill the gas tank again, like it's, it's a grind. It can also be really rewarding. It's it's rewarding when you when you land a deal when you but it takes, you know, building a new territory, man, it takes a lot, a lot of work.
Chelsea Lowman 30:58
Could you maybe just thinking through maybe people that don't understand what sales operations even is? Like? Could you just give a quick Cliff Notes of like, what is sales operation? Like? How are you supporting the sales team? Yeah,
Andrew Burback 31:12
so there's, the team today is made up of a few different groups, I'd say there's, you know, commissions and sales commissions, the team that runs the plans, pays the plans, with our finance partners. There's analytics and reporting. So all of the analytics that go into running the sales teams, how do we, you know, territory planning? How do we decide to carve up territories, given the number that, you know, that the board agrees to it comes down to the leadership team agrees to and is, is blessed by the board, we have to do X millions of dollars? How do you carve it up based on the green space we have. So there's the analytics team, we have our channel operations group in there. So they're, they're the team responsible for, you know, ensuring our partners have everything they need, but also making sure our deal registrations that come in are all reviewed by that group. And then we have a team that basically supports the sellers through you know, whether it's unique deal structures, how do you quote this deal? How do we make sure we validate the orders that come in from customers and partners that the quote, we have the price that we have everything equals the dates are right. So those are kind of those are kind of the teams that, that make it up, but it's really to help sales, you know, enable sales to run as fast as they can, but also try to remove friction along the way. So
Chelsea Lowman 32:37
to reiterate, there's a lot more than just a cold call and a yes or no. Two year old Chelsea didn't understand that.
Andrew Burback 32:48
As a buyer of technology right now, on the on the IT side, there's it's a lot goes into it, right? So it's not easy to be a seller, it makes it easier when you have a great product or great service or a differentiated offering. But even then, you know, budgets or budgets are hard to come from and finding, finding the right people. It's, it's a grind.
Mary Newville 33:11
So a shout out to the sales team,
Chelsea Lowman 33:15
to the seller, and the sales operations team. Because to your point, like, it's literally teamwork makes the dream work, like you guys are enabling them to be able to sell so
Andrew Burback 33:25
they partner pretty closely. So yeah, yeah, we have, we have a great group on both sides here.
Mary Newville 33:30
I was thinking to Andrew, when you were talking about like, progress, or results take time. I think that's interesting couple that I was thinking about how I've been in meetings before with your leaders who are working on a project or integration or something to do with scaling it. And they'll say, you know, like Andrew always says, and I know this isn't like you said you were the original poster of this. But they have also like, you know, like I'm sure always says, Don't let perfection be the enemy of progress. So I feel like that's something that you instilled in your teams, and I think goes in tandem with results take time, but like, let's work towards that. In.
Andrew Burback 34:11
Yeah,
Mary Newville 34:12
let's make progress versus like stalling for perfection and never getting there. Yeah, that
Andrew Burback 34:16
might be my lack of patience wearing through as everyone wants to yeah, sometimes you just have to move the ball down the field. It might might not be the prettiest play, but but it gets the ball downfield. Yeah,
Mary Newville 34:30
well, I think it's really helpful because sometimes they too, I think would like it said there can be just like so many requirements and specifications and things you could possibly do. So to just be like, you know, what, let's just like make a baby step forward here is really helpful. Kind of on that topic. What's the best leadership advice that you've ever been given?
Andrew Burback 34:50
I'd say hire people that have different skills than you. You probably hear it, you know, hire people smarter than you and I totally when I look at My team of of leaders we definitely have different, different skills are different. We approach problems differently, we look at it, like having a couple of different opinions is, it's important. I don't think any, I don't think any of my leaders are like a clone of me think exactly like or think like me. There's, there's probably one or two that are closer to how I would attack some things and others, but it's, I, that's probably the best advice I was given. And I think it makes from it makes for, like, better conversations between each other and better probably, we always come at things from different angles A lot of times and then meet in the middle. So that's probably, that's probably probably one I was trying to think of the other was early in my career, I think the first time I took a team manager, and it was what it's, they say it was something like, you know, navigate the ship, you don't have to steer it. So kind of chart the path, but you don't have to steer it was kind of don't be a micromanager, like, no one no one wants, no one wants that. So that was I guess the way of saying don't be you don't have to, you don't have to, you know, steer it every day like, go from point A to point B, smart people figure it out, come to me if you need help or advice. Or if there's a roadblock, but other than that, like, I'll give you my opinion. But it's just one of its it's usually one of the opinions and then let the team figure like, like I said, we have, if you have smart people on the team, they figure it out, they might not do it this the same way you're thinking about it. But you, that's why they're there. That's why That's why we hired them. That's why they work here. Go figure it and sort out the problem.
Chelsea Lowman 36:56
Yeah, I love that. I don't know if they've ever heard that boat analogy before. But I love the idea of like, you navigate the course like we know, we got to get from point A to point B, but then like, let the crew get the ship there. Like you don't have to necessarily be doing all the roles to like to get us there. So
Andrew Burback 37:14
I also think it was written on the back of a piece of paper of like, I have it somewhere at home because it was like, it was a wish I I don't have it with me it was like four or five, like first time manager. And that was one of the first lines. And
Chelsea Lowman 37:29
I also, I'm just going back to what you said around like, all of your direct reports aren't necessarily clones of you, which I also love. Because it's, it's kind of hard to ensure you don't do that. Like, it's easy to be like, Oh my gosh, I completely vibe with this person. We think the same, I can trust that they'll kind of do it the way that I would want it to be done. But as we all know, like diversity, diversity of thought and opinion and experience and perspective is like what makes us stronger. So just as a leader, like knowing you have people that maybe are going to do things differently than you would like, how do you how have you like grown in that area and learn how to navigate that and kind of just like let things go and trust the team? Because that's not always like, easy to do you know what I mean? Like when you you're also a person with opinions and things?
Andrew Burback 38:20
Why didn't say totally let them go. But no, I think I'd say as a leader, that's the first time leader or manager like for anyone that that gets up that promotion. That like the letting it go is the hardest thing I constantly see from new leaders, like delegate delegate delegate, they want to do it all themselves. So, so that's like the biggest challenge but but as far as how the team like the team. Team does, I think the the different teams that are that are part of my group, there's there's, there's a lot of like, we go from the seaso without a Marree to, to corporate IT to manufacturing and sourcing and sales ops, like the functions are so wide, that the skill sets of each of the people in those jobs. They've done it for they've done it for a long time, they've seen a lot of places. So so that I think you just have to kind of that's why that's why they're here. And that's why that's why we hired them. So you have to I guess that's just part of the gig. Like you have to just believe in what they're, they're saying, like I said, I always my team won't tell you I don't give an opinion. I always give my opinion. But they have disagreed with you know, they disagreed with me many times. And that's like, at the end of the day, like my job is we need to get from point A to point B. Here's here's what I think. I sometimes at least at Arctic wolf have the benefit of being here for for a longer tenure or so. seeing, seeing maybe a holistic picture because I have how things relate to each other. And especially with like a new, newer folks on the team, but but they just realized like the teams are we have enough scale now and enough people that there's there's smart people and they can figure it out. Kind of like come to me if there's a roadblock come to me if I didn't describe it if I didn't explain something, you know, provide clarity. But, but really figure like figuring out, yeah,
Mary Newville 40:33
well, it makes me think about when Nick was on the podcast, he talked about the kiss of death being pride, and how he really values humility and leaders. And I just think it does take humility to be able to say, Hey, I'm open to your perspective or opinion, or we can disagree about this, and I trust you, my team. Together, we can come up with the best decision versus like, Yep, my way is the best way. My way is always right. I think it shows humility to have that dialogue with your team. It also
Andrew Burback 41:04
can't scale that way. Right? Like, that's the way it like, doesn't work. You have to give up control to to get things done, otherwise you become it. Nothing can get done without you. And no, I would hope my team I don't think they feel that way. We move too fast at Arctic Wolf. For that to be it for that to be a thing.
Mary Newville 41:24
Yeah, absolutely. Well, it makes me it when you were talking. It made me think about our culture, Tennant of communicating with candor, or it's part of our culture, Tennant of owning the outcome is to communicate with candor. And I just think that exemplifies it really well of like, let's disagree about this to get to the right decision, and you share what you think and so on. So it's gonna share what they think. And we're not going to like skirt around the truth or like not say something because we don't want to offend someone, we're going to have that conversation respectfully and get to the right decision. So
Chelsea Lowman 41:52
great. Well, we are on our last serious question. We like to ask, we like to ask all of our guests mental health and wellness question. So just curious, how do you prioritize your well being for yourself, like mental physical well being? And then how do you prioritize that or model that for your team, as well,
Andrew Burback 42:16
we all work super hard, right? Like, that's your in fast growth tech, there's always more that you can do than there is time in the day. So I mean, my biggest thing is like taking a break from work, like, if you're on my team, you've heard me say it like, I don't want you taking your laptop on. I had a request for someone to they were going overseas somewhere I want to take their laptop, I was like, What are you doing? Like, don't take your laptop, you're on vacation. So I think that's probably the biggest thing. Like, if you can really disconnect from from work, like, it will be here, when you get back. I always remind them. So like, take the time is probably for like, there's always so much going on. So that's my that's what I tell everyone just take the time we have it there for a reason. Don't feel like you have to stay in the office till seven o'clock at night. Like it will be there tomorrow. We're not like doing brain surgery, right? So it's, like 99.9% of the time. It's not life and death. So
Chelsea Lowman 43:25
we're laughing because we have our own phrases like I always say I'm we're not curing cancer, Mary always says we're not saving babies. So like we have a similar phrase of like, we can all take a deep breath here.
Andrew Burback 43:38
Yeah, so I think that's, that's probably the biggest one because getting like taking time off. Like in the summer for me, I love to go to the cabin. Like, I'm gonna take some Friday's off in the summer and be at the cabin and I expect the rest of the team to do it. Because it's not like no one's it's not like we're not putting in our time. You know, during the week, that's usually not an issue.
Chelsea Lowman 44:04
Well, you heard it here. First, folks. Take your PTO. And when you're on PTO, non PTO
Andrew Burback 44:11
PTO Yeah.
Chelsea Lowman 44:14
Okay, awesome. Mary, anything else before we you want to ask or say before we do rapid fire?
Mary Newville 44:20
When was your most recent PTO? Andrew, what did you do? What
Andrew Burback 44:24
did I do? Ooh, that's a good I think it was taking my kids to the state high school hockey championship. So high school hockey and Minnesota. It's, you know, sell out 16,000 people that watch high school hockey and our local team where we live Chanhassen was
Chelsea Lowman 44:52
nice. So that was what like a month ago, so you've taken PTO within the past.
Andrew Burback 44:56
Take your PTO in the last month. Yep. Okay.
Chelsea Lowman 44:59
Get a good man of his word. Okay, well now we're we're at the rapid fire. So these are fun questions again, rapid fire. First thing that comes to your head Don't think too hard on it. Okay. Best concert of your life.
Andrew Burback 45:14
Oh people who know me Hootie and the Blowfish. It was at the zoo in Minnesota. Before Darius Rucker became Darius rocker, he was like Darius rocker, but he was still Hootie. Yeah, probably Yeah. 2008 that was front row. I mean, Hootie and the Blowfish is the best band ever. Okay.
Chelsea Lowman 45:33
I honestly, I don't know what I expected you to say. Like I had no concept of who you were going to throw out. But I wasn't expecting Hootie and the Blowfish. But I mean, we love the crap
Andrew Burback 45:44
all the time, because I would have said Nickelback and everyone knew crap for Nickelback but who at work at Mary's face just discussed, but
isn't a bad Hootie and the Blowfish song.
Chelsea Lowman 46:00
I honestly don't know if I could name one. I know we're
Mary Newville 46:05
on an HR corner today. We'll put that on the Sonos.
Andrew Burback 46:08
I'll play in the Sonos from this side in the HR.
Chelsea Lowman 46:15
And, and also Andrew, justice for Nickelback. I don't get why they get so much hate. I also think they're totally fine. Like they're fine. It's awesome. Yeah. Next one favorite word?
Andrew Burback 46:27
No. No, me My nickname is Doctor No. Yeah, that's no. Operations world in order to scale sometimes you have to say no. So that's my favorite. Professional. But yeah, that's
Chelsea Lowman 46:44
okay. As I say, we just had a whole conversation about you big. We have to trust our teams and appreciate different No, no, no, no, no.
Andrew Burback 46:54
That's usually for the for the ass of everything. That
Chelsea Lowman 46:58
yes, yes. No, I know what you mean. Um, okay, a place on your bucket list.
Andrew Burback 47:04
Bucket List. Thailand, like a beach?
Chelsea Lowman 47:10
Nice. What is something that people often get wrong about you? Oh,
Andrew Burback 47:15
let's do professional. Back to my No. I think that it's I don't want to help, or that I like professionally, I think that's one of them. Like, you don't want to help. And I think it's, it's not that it's the exact opposite. I want to help as much as I can. But you have to kind of prioritize things sometimes ruthlessly, in terms to scale, right. So that's probably one thing that I want to help as much as I can, but you you can't please everyone either. So that's otherwise things won't scale. So that's probably one way these questions I'm making them serious.
Chelsea Lowman 47:54
Well, I was gonna say to like, as a leader, you have to also like protect your team and their time and resources and like, yes, sometimes that's saying no to things
Andrew Burback 48:03
to the next team meeting this. Gal.
Chelsea Lowman 48:10
I'm just anytime you say something. I'm like what Andrew said. Okay, last one, um, give us a snapshot of an ordinary moment in your life that has brought you joy. Well, I
Andrew Burback 48:25
touched on earlier I think my cat like the cabin or cottage. It's like 85 and sunny. It's like June on a Saturday, you might have a spotted cow in your hand. Kids are like, on a two behind the boat. You're on the water. That's probably that's probably an ordinary moment that being with the family at the cabin is definitely a time to like get out of the Get out of the city. Get out of the work, you know, like the office and spend time with the family. That's definitely probably the best.
Chelsea Lowman 49:02
Yeah, that that sounds nice. I actually have a wildcard, final Rapid Fire question. Fire. Because I was I was joking with some PAC members here when I was telling them you were going to be on the podcast and that I was doing Wisconsin trivia. And they were like, you should have done subway trivia. Because if you don't know Andrew love subway always has like some sort of connection deal. Maybe that's supposed to be hush hush we can edit out but a big lover of subway so what is your go to Subway sub,
Andrew Burback 49:38
a cheesesteak? I mean, it's like it's it's the best one. And that's that's right. We have we do have a small group, you know, like Subway sends like a code out every every couple of weeks. And they slack it to like 10 or 12 of us. It's you can walk to it from the office, ordered on your phone. If you're in meetings, so yeah, that's a it's it's quick and easy. And you know what's wrong with a cheesesteak?
Chelsea Lowman 50:09
Yeah. And you can have it your way as they say it sounds
Mary Newville 50:15
at your wellness and with some steps walking over there. Yeah,
Andrew Burback 50:18
it's a nice. Well, now that Summer's here, don't you drive over in December. But for now, now you can get a quick walk in and it's there and back in 15 minutes.
Chelsea Lowman 50:31
I should have done some subway trivia. I don't even know what that would have meant. But I'm sure I could have found something on the internet. But anyway, thank you so much.
Andrew Burback 50:40
By subway, so thanks.
Chelsea Lowman 50:45
I mean, if we have podcast sponsors, that would be cool. The goal at some point, I don't know how that would work being a corporate podcast, but we could figure it out. We could figure it out in the future. Um, but thank you so much, Andrew, for being on the podcast, it was so great just to like get to know you a little bit better. I love learning about your journey. And also just your leadership philosophy. And you can tell you just like really value and trust your team. So I'm sure they will appreciate hearing carrying all the lovely things you had to say today, too. So thank you, so
Andrew Burback 51:17
sorry, you went both you see ya.
Chelsea Lowman 51:21
Bye, bye. Okay, what a great conversation with Andrew, like I said, so fun to get to know him a little bit better. And just like to hear his insight and perspective into working here at Arctic Wolf and his journey. So thanks again, Andrew, for joining us. And thank you everyone, for listening. Please continue to listen, like and subscribe on YouTube, wherever you listen to your podcasts. If you are a pack member, lots of fun things coming up in May. May is Mental Health Awareness Month and Asian and Pacific Islander Heritage Month. So be on the lookout. We're gonna have a ton of fun, wonderful events and learning resources for you all. So make sure you are in the pack unity Slack channel.
Mary Newville 52:11
Yes, so excited. We're also kicking off our fiscal year. So looking forward to another year of growth and impact for the pack. If you want to be part of this special community that we have here and be part of this scholarship program and just a place where people come together to do meaningful things. Check out our open positions at Arctic wolf.com backslash careers, and we will catch you all next month. Yes
Chelsea Lowman 52:40
Bye. Thanks, everyone.