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🎙️ THE Conversation is a monthly podcast that brings together diverse voices to engage in honest, courageous, and deeply relevant discussions about race and justice. Co-hosted by The Rev. Will Mebane and Onjalé Scott Price, this award-winning series was created by Falmouth Community Television (FCTV) to open dialogue and foster education on issues of racial equity—starting at the local level and rippling outward.
Each episode features panel discussions, community voices, and expert guests who explore how racism and bias shape our everyday lives across institutions such as education, healthcare, housing, religion, and more. With a focus on awareness, action, and community connection, THE Conversation aims to inspire lasting, meaningful change—one conversation at a time.
Originally launched in 2020, the show has received the Rika Welch Community Impact Award and continues to spark partnerships, elevate marginalized voices, and support anti-bias education throughout Cape Cod and beyond.
Listen and be part of THE Conversation—because change starts with listening.
00;00;11;04 - 00;00;50;11
Onjalé Scott Price
Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of The Conversation here on FC TV. I'm your co-host, Onjalé Scott Price, joined by the wonderful, honorable, fantastic Reverend Will Mebane We are so excited that you are continuing this journey with us, as every month we bring a new program that discusses race and race relations in our community and different ways that race impacts different groups of people and how we as a community can have honest discussion about those impacts and what we can do about them.
00;00;50;14 - 00;01;17;25
Onjalé Scott Price
So we thank you for continuing this journey with us. We are on episode something or other. It's been quite a few of them and we have quite a few more to go. So this month we are going to be talking about racism and the LGBTQ plus community. So to get started, I'm going to turn us over to our people on the street and they're going to be answering the question of does racism exists?
00;01;18;02 - 00;01;28;18
Onjalé Scott Price
And the LGBTQ plus community. Let's hear what they have to say.
00;01;28;20 - 00;01;37;07
Jynn Cursino
Yeah, I believe it does in a way just like it exists in pretty much any, any community.
00;01;38;12 - 00;02;05;11
Jynn Cursino
But it it feels like it's probably smaller in some way. Just because of the relation, like from minority to minority, it's probably a little bit smaller, but I believe that it does exist, just like the whole concept of, kind of phobia also exists inside of the of the altitude of community.
00;02;05;14 - 00;02;33;11
Charles Evans
First, let me begin by saying racism is everywhere. And I say that by being a black man born in the South, coming to the north, New York, first of all, and going to the gay clubs. I had to deal with the idea of coming into this club, which was 99% white, going into the club and first of all, being checked as to be patted down.
00;02;33;11 - 00;02;58;26
Charles Evans
As for ID, when I saw other white males going in and they were just given a pass. Hi. How you doing? Go right in. Okay. Go in, get ready, go to the bar. And I said, I drink, I wait, I wait, wait. Yes. And I found that it was only people of color that had to wait. We were served out of plastic cups, not a regular glass.
00;02;58;29 - 00;03;22;22
Charles Evans
And we used to ask, why was that? Oh, because blacks are aggressive. So not only are now we, are black and gay, we are black and aggressive. Another example is Stonewall. If you know, Stonewall was the great uprising in 69, and but it seems like it was the uprising. But the white gay community, not the black and brown gay community.
00;03;22;25 - 00;03;55;24
Charles Evans
I happened to be a veteran of Stonewall. But if you look at the news most of you see is the white guys, even, the transgendered, they, I would say they, discriminated against, too. Now, if we look back in history and see the black and brown transgenders, where the one that actually really stood is Stonewall, but you only see the white, and it's found to be a lot of places I've gone to that is like we were overlooked.
00;03;55;26 - 00;04;17;00
Charles Evans
It seems like the white gay guy had the privilege, and it seems it just that's part of our history in the United States is we are second class. No matter what. If we are straight, if we are, in the LGBTQ community and it's about time we say enough is enough.
00;04;17;02 - 00;04;43;11
Onjalé Scott Price
Well, we've had some interesting discussion happening with our people on the street answering the question, does racism exist? And the LGBTQ plus community? So we have two panelists with us today that we're very excited to get chatting with. First, I'll introduce Scott Fitzmaurice, who grew up on Cape Cod and is the founder and executive director of We Thrive, the LGBTQ and Ally community center serving Cape Cod and the islands.
00;04;43;12 - 00;04;50;11
Onjalé Scott Price
So welcome, Scott and to begin it, could you tell us a little bit about your foundation and what you all do?
00;04;50;14 - 00;05;27;01
Scott Fitzmaurice
Sure. So, We Thrive was formed in 1996 as our original name, the Cape and Islands Gay and Straight Youth Alliance, and we provide support to 15 to 20 gay straight alliance to gender sexuality alliances throughout the school systems. We provide direct support to Martha's Vineyard and Nantucket, not just in name, but in reality. And we have a weekly drop in LGBTQ power event, as well as other activities that support, building community for the whole LGBTQ community and allies, as well as, I think building, connections.
00;05;27;04 - 00;05;38;05
Onjalé Scott Price
Awesome. Do you all partner with, other organizations that are on the Cape that don't necessarily geared toward students, or are you all just specifically focused on students in the schools?
00;05;38;08 - 00;05;57;04
Scott Fitzmaurice
Yeah, that's a good question. We, we work with a lot of faith based organizations to, I think connecting in with, Welcoming Congregations Coalition as well as, a lot of the Unitarian fellowships. And also to think our work is really about everyone mattering. And and I think our society is set up so much with an age lens.
00;05;57;04 - 00;06;13;19
Scott Fitzmaurice
A lot of times our work crosses different age thresholds that are occasionally separate in our culture because as mammals, as rubber, you see inside, in this case, against adolescence, we all really learn by having an integrated society and interacting with one another. So we tend to collaborate with a lot of different organizations.
00;06;13;22 - 00;06;29;08
Onjalé Scott Price
Yeah, that's that's fantastic. Well, thanks for being with us today. And so we'll we'll jump in and say, do you have any comments about anything that was said by our people on the street answering the question about, does racism exists in the community or any thoughts of your own you want to add?
00;06;29;10 - 00;07;03;14
Scott Fitzmaurice
I mean, I think that, you know, for me, it really is about the fact that I think the LGBTQ community is a microcosm of the larger culture and, privilege and power and white privilege and all those terms. They mean a lot of different things to a lot of people. They make some people bristle, but, certainly, you know, racism is is going to be and everywhere in our culture and, you know, I think is white folks speaking for myself, we tend to like to feel really good about what we're doing each day and making a positive impact.
00;07;03;14 - 00;07;25;09
Scott Fitzmaurice
But in reality, we live in a a social culture that is incredibly racist and has a long history. So, I would say that the microcosm really reflects the larger culture and also that folks who are LGBTQ just like any other oppressed group and to you tend to if you're not working on your confidence and your self-esteem, we tend to oppress others.
00;07;25;11 - 00;07;47;26
Scott Fitzmaurice
I have been really excited to see how the the unveiling of the gender continuum and people really understanding how gender is really a continuum has helped in a lot of ways to open up, I think conversation around a race. And I find the more that people struggle in their lives in the queer community, the more that they tend to be open and sensitive and aware of other people's experience.
00;07;47;28 - 00;07;56;24
Scott Fitzmaurice
But it was really nice to hear people talking about these issues and, and making comments and being willing to make a statement. So that's how we make progress.
00;07;56;27 - 00;08;16;12
Onjalé Scott Price
Oh, yeah. Absolutely. That's what this show is all about, is having these conversations that maybe wouldn't have been had otherwise and letting people know, like, it's okay to talk about these issues. They're very real issues that if we don't discuss them, are just going to continue to be issues. Maybe by having some conversations and and talking with each other, we can, you know, eradicate some of these issues.
00;08;16;12 - 00;08;43;16
Onjalé Scott Price
So thanks for those thoughts, Scott. I'd like to invite Kristen to say a few words. Kristen Garcia grew up in Falmouth, graduated from Falmouth Academy. So one of our own and is now in Boston doing marketing and design for We Thrive. So thanks for being with us today, Kristen. Yes, definitely. I'm happy to. So what are your thoughts on if racism exists in the LGBTQ community, and any thoughts that you want to add to whatever has been said?
00;08;43;19 - 00;09;38;12
Kristen Garcia
Yeah, definitely. I think it still does exist. Just like in, you know, every other part of the community. And socially, like Scott mentioned, it brings me back to just thinking about, it comes from the events that we create, you know, for ourselves, even it goes back to, Boston Pride, which another person in the video had mentioned, where instead of being able to, you know, share resources and sort of walk together and talk with each other, there was just a disbandment and everything dissolving and folks having to start from, from scratch, you know, and it was just these little things that, build up to making things more
00;09;38;12 - 00;09;58;13
Kristen Garcia
difficult. To try to get ahead, and, you know, just trying to, think about how we're all relating to one another, and even these microaggressions which people might not even notice, but are still there,
00;09;58;16 - 00;10;14;11
Onjalé Scott Price
right? Yep. Charles mentioned, Stonewall back in 1969, which admittedly, I'm still learning about, but he mentioned that Stonewall was started with some black and brown people of the of the community, but they're not as recognized.
00;10;14;11 - 00;10;42;21
Onjalé Scott Price
And that that sounded very familiar to other things that we know other other, advances and rights and civil rights that we know black and brown people had a hand in starting and pushing but aren't always recognized. So I think that's that's a show of it's like you said, just like other factions of our society where the black and brown people, you know, we we will take what they've what they've done, what they've worked on, but not always acknowledge them.
00;10;42;24 - 00;10;47;27
Onjalé Scott Price
So Rev, what are your thoughts?
00;10;47;29 - 00;11;13;19
Rev. Will Mebane
Well. You know, first of all, thank, thank you both, Scott and, Kristen, for joining us, for the conversation about racism in the LGBTQ plus community. And one of the questions I have is something I've thought about for some time is the has to do with attention. Or maybe I should posed it in the quote in the form of a question.
00;11;13;19 - 00;11;17;07
Rev. Will Mebane
So what sort of tension is there between.
00;11;19;07 - 00;11;53;25
Rev. Will Mebane
Bipoc communities, black indigenous people of color and the LGBTQ community and because I have a I have a belief that you can confirm or not that there is some tension and that some of that has, been manifest in responses to, the civil rights, efforts, in the 60s and 70s and maybe even more recently, and the, the reemergence of the, Black Lives Matter movement.
00;11;53;25 - 00;12;03;26
Rev. Will Mebane
So what tension, if any, do to either of you see, between, Bipoc and LGBTQ persons?
00;12;03;29 - 00;12;26;05
Scott Fitzmaurice
I love that you asked that question. If you don't mind, I'll answer. So a couple things. One is that I think there's, you know, in, in certain cultures of folks of color, you know, they tend to be hyper masculinity. And sometimes that can be, you know, in, in Congress or not working well with a lot of the identity within, the LGBTQ community.
00;12;26;07 - 00;12;55;05
Scott Fitzmaurice
There's also interesting lines I find in so many ways, like if you talk about sort of like African-American or black, and even Latino to an extent, or Latino, culture and how faith is so significant and fairly conservative faith, a lot of Baptist faith, that aligns so much with the fact that it's like and it's so important, I think, in, in communities of color, many kind of and then also for LGBTQ folks, a lot of times we sort of roll into our coming out process.
00;12;55;05 - 00;13;25;19
Scott Fitzmaurice
Many of us are very involved in and somewhat conservative, faith based violence or Christian based movements. And some of those are positive experiences. Some of them are. But there's so many parallels about, what the communities have in common and the different identities have in common. And of course, there's many overlapping things. So I don't really see it, as much as adversarial, I, I think I see it in ways where we, we, we just have so many common areas where we can work together so much more, so much better.
00;13;25;21 - 00;13;55;15
Scott Fitzmaurice
But, you know, one of the things is that, you know, racism really isn't a thing like, so much, I think within the cultures of, of color, it's always about like, I think white folks really like we have that effect and that power in this culture. And when when we're not willing to say, I don't know everything. And when we've been conditioned to believe that we have all the answers or that we have to lead all the time, there's just not ruin the experience or the opportunity to to listen and to learn and understand and and hear things that are hard to hear.
00;13;55;17 - 00;14;15;25
Scott Fitzmaurice
And that's really where it all starts. I think my opportunity needs to attend different, different trainings like, like white privilege workshops and other workshops which, you know, have names that might sound really uncomfortable to people, but they really help me to see things that I didn't see before. So, but I want to defer to to you first, if you, comment on that.
00;14;15;27 - 00;15;04;01
Kristen Garcia
Yeah. I think of two things. Just thinking about messages that you're receiving generationally within the Bipoc community and also, the messaging that you're getting, through media, where I think is still, the tough in terms of thinking between the Bipoc community and LGBTQi folks. Where that could be still a tension, where folks are still trying to figure out, you know, what does it mean to be LGBTQ plus and, and have this other identity to of, of being Bipoc?
00;15;04;03 - 00;15;51;21
Kristen Garcia
And I think even within, Bipoc community, there's, there's tension to, depending on your culture. And again, what you've learned through family and messaging, around how we might supposed to be feeling towards, you know, another race or, you know, sort of the, you know, who has it harder, in that terms, how how many things can we list of, you know, are you, a, black, queer, woman who, you know, masculine woman who also my, you know, the image is of a bigger person.
00;15;51;21 - 00;16;10;28
Kristen Garcia
You know, how many identities can you really add on? So, for example, the yeah, just definitely still tension. And again, in thinking about how we can see each other and a group working towards the same thing. Yeah.
00;16;11;00 - 00;16;12;07
Kristen Garcia
We did.
00;16;12;10 - 00;16;16;12
Rev. Will Mebane
Yeah. Did you want to say something, Scott.
00;16;16;15 - 00;16;31;23
Scott Fitzmaurice
I just I just I think that, you know, I mean, a lot of times it's sort of the stereotype that folks who are younger, you know, further along with issues and such. And I think there is some truth to that. But it just, you know, when you look at the, I guess, the, the Black Lives Matter is a, you know, movement.
00;16;31;24 - 00;16;55;07
Scott Fitzmaurice
And you look at, you know, some of the recent events that have just shocked us all as far as, like, decisions leaving the courts. And you think back to, you know, just when people, matter or when they're marginalized, when they're relevant or when they're not relevant. And, you know, one of the things we do at thrive is we just try to believe that everyone is relevant.
00;16;55;07 - 00;17;12;14
Scott Fitzmaurice
And, you know, I think of, like, in faith communities, how much of our, how much of our are difficult difficulties coming from some of the faith circles where, you know, are we our body or are we our spirit? You know, and yet, you know, our body is temporary, but our spirit, you know, arguably could live forever.
00;17;12;14 - 00;17;33;29
Scott Fitzmaurice
Could be forever, you know? And yet, does the spirit have gender or the physicality or skin color? You know, all those conversations are so fascinating to me. But the part about being relevant and mattering is, you know what so many of us feel when we are in a group that's smaller and having purpose and an opportunity to contribute, all those things are tied to like life, joy.
00;17;34;02 - 00;17;53;22
Scott Fitzmaurice
And if people are not denied that, or if they don't have access to it for resources or for anything, then then they're not able to really fulfill their potential. And I guess what bothers me is that a lot of what we see is, people not really aware that we're not connecting and we're not allowing everyone to sort of come in.
00;17;53;24 - 00;18;20;11
Scott Fitzmaurice
So I guess I would really like to see I would like to see us not as afraid to talk about race and, and division, and I don't know how to make that happen, but it's it's such a wonderful conversation. And you can go to a training and you can sit there and listen. And I think for a lot of us that have different levels of privilege, it's it's a totally different experience to go and just sit.
00;18;20;12 - 00;18;40;04
Scott Fitzmaurice
Being in a training where, Christian, I have been in trainings before where, you know, folks who have more privilege, take an opportunity to step back and listen and folks who maybe have less privilege or a different experience, well, maybe do all the talking, and it's it's a totally different way of being, but it's the, it's the way that the work really begins.
00;18;40;04 - 00;18;43;10
Scott Fitzmaurice
And so I, I'd love to see some more of that happen.
00;18;43;12 - 00;18;57;29
Kristen Garcia
And I think more of that would be helpful when you have, facilitators who are well-versed in how to navigate, especially navigating a mixed crowd of white folks and, you know, everyone else.
00;18;58;01 - 00;19;00;03
Scott Fitzmaurice
So I'm.
00;19;00;06 - 00;19;42;08
Rev. Will Mebane
You know, before I toss it back to, to Andrew, and I'll offer this in response to a couple things you said, and, Scott, you've raised the faith, the subject, the topic of issue of faith a few times and your your comments and it just is taking me back to how, much damage, how much harm, how much hurt has been done by, some faith traditions, in in how they, see and deal with, people who are different, whether they be Bipoc or whether they be LGBTQ plus.
00;19;42;08 - 00;20;15;27
Rev. Will Mebane
Right. And I'm thinking of. Going all the way back to slavery, how slave masters used the Bible to justify, that inhumanity. Right. And, and I know also that people who are opposed to homosexuals, people who are gay, lesbian, transgender, how they use the Bible also to, disparage and to harm and, and, dismiss people who are LGBTQ.
00;20;15;29 - 00;20;49;28
Rev. Will Mebane
Plus, so, yeah, there's a lot of, harm again, that's been done by, by religious institutions. And yet, when, when I look at a person who is, Bipoc, I can usually tell whether or not they are, you know, African-American or maybe Hispanic or, you know, that they're something other than European, right? Or of European descent accent, but I can't that's not clear.
00;20;49;28 - 00;21;21;09
Rev. Will Mebane
Right? When I'm looking at a person who may be LGBTQ plus, and it just makes me realize again, how it all comes down to. And maybe I'm getting ahead to the second question we're going to be hearing and discussing, you know, there's just so much injustice in the world. There's just so much, wrong that's been done to other human beings by other human beings.
00;21;21;09 - 00;21;37;21
Rev. Will Mebane
And, someone once coined the phrase, can't we all just get along? You know, it's this, that's the thing that frustrates me, but I'm. Andrew. What's on your what's on your heart? Your mind about this?
00;21;37;23 - 00;21;58;26
Scott Fitzmaurice
Yeah. A lot of, trans folks tell me that they, When they do finally find a great therapist, you know, they usually end up having to train the therapist for, like, you know, a few months before they can really benefit that, like, consistently across the board. And when I talk to therapists who confide in me for advice, they'll say, oh, I've got this new client, and I'll say, tell me, are you listening to them?
00;21;58;26 - 00;22;16;23
Scott Fitzmaurice
Or are they more listening to your questions? So like, oh, no, they're totally training me. Like they aren't the ones paying. So, it's it's just insulting how that is. But, you know, I think that what would make this so much easier is for folks who maybe want to learn more, to know something they could say when they want to learn more.
00;22;16;24 - 00;22;33;21
Scott Fitzmaurice
Not like, hey, can you train me? Like, why are you going on to make in your life? But, I sometimes say, you know, are there are two things you can think of that you might imagine that I might do differently. I'd be more aware of that. I could think about. And I like that question because it's opening in, invites people in.
00;22;33;22 - 00;23;02;09
Scott Fitzmaurice
It says, are there things that I might not know about? And, and it's specific and it's not open ended, and at least it gives a chance to start a dialog, because a lot of times we don't know what to say. And like the number of times people have said to me, oh, you know, my, my brother is, he's gay, you know, and, and they'll, they'll drop their voice and such, and it's like a just like a, you know, it's a cultural thing because, you know, it's we don't want everyone to hear it, but, and so I'm like, oh, he's gay.
00;23;02;11 - 00;23;25;25
Scott Fitzmaurice
And they're like, yeah, yeah, he's gay. And then they're I know they're comfortable with it being loud. They just think to sit quietly. But it takes the tension away too. And but over the years we've done trainings and a lot of the schools and, all over the Cape and, almost every single person that I've worked with who's like an adult in the community at some point later has reached out to me and said, you know, can I talk to you for a minute?
00;23;25;27 - 00;23;43;08
Scott Fitzmaurice
And they've mentioned, just, something about their family or their life and someone who they care about that they wanted to ask my thoughts on and more than anything else, just be able to say a couple of things. And so I feel like all of us are, blessed by having LGBTQ people in our families and circles.
00;23;43;08 - 00;23;48;24
Scott Fitzmaurice
The question is whether or not they feel safe enough to tell us and whether or not we know. And we're supportive.
00;23;48;26 - 00;24;10;26
Onjalé Scott Price
So I've got a question kind of about that when talking about people of different generations. And I think this is for for either of you, if you've, you know, run into someone. There was an event here actually held at Saint Barnabas a couple of years ago, BC so before Covid, so only God knows how long ago it actually was.
00;24;10;29 - 00;24;32;00
Onjalé Scott Price
An at this particular event, there were people from the LGBTQ community who were talking about their experiences, and I can't remember what the event was called. But at one point, Charles, who is, one of our people on the street, mentioned that when he hears the Q word, which I am still not sure if I feel comfortable saying it because of this.
00;24;32;03 - 00;24;53;21
Onjalé Scott Price
He said to him, it invokes the same anger as the N-word, because when he was growing up and and coming into himself as a gay man, that that was used as a slur against him. And so even though he knows that people have reclaimed that word in the same way that some black people feel that we've reclaimed the N-word.
00;24;53;21 - 00;25;12;06
Onjalé Scott Price
And so it's okay for us to say it. He said even he doesn't feel comfortable saying it. And so I don't say it because I know there's at least one person who that will offend. And so I'm wondering, have you all do you feel that way? Have you experienced that? Do you know anyone who feels strongly about that word as well?
00;25;12;06 - 00;25;15;01
Onjalé Scott Price
I'm I'm genuinely curious about that.
00;25;15;04 - 00;25;35;18
Scott Fitzmaurice
You know, it was 1996 when, I think it was the Village Voice came out with the very profound cover of The Year of the queer, and it was so offensive to everybody, including myself. But our, our community has really searched for word, and the gay community was a word we used for a while, but it felt really like it came from a white male privilege perspective and gay.
00;25;35;18 - 00;25;52;23
Scott Fitzmaurice
And, so that was sort of the word that was chosen. And many of us have sort of been that way. But it's so good you bring that up. There are many people that are still not comfortable. The word and as a community, I don't know if I'll ever agree on anything, not even a wallpaper color, let alone, a name to represent the whole thing.
00;25;52;25 - 00;25;55;03
Scott Fitzmaurice
And Kristen.
00;25;55;05 - 00;26;25;22
Kristen Garcia
Yeah, and we've definitely had conversations around, a lot of language, but queer in general. And, You know, I recall doing a training, with mixed ages and, during college and older folks bringing that up and, depending on who you were, you know, what time you grew up. You know, some folks are saying, hey, it's okay.
00;26;25;22 - 00;26;51;25
Kristen Garcia
Like, I use this to identify, and while also recognizing that there was a time where, you know, you know, you didn't want to hear it was a slur, it was all of that. So, I think, again, it's one of those words where, it really depends on. On who you are and how you identify and what you're comfortable with.
00;26;51;27 - 00;27;13;00
Kristen Garcia
But I think it's also good, you know, to know, that there are some folks who who still, might not want to, to hear that word. And again, on agreeing on words to sort of identify as, yeah, I don't think we're going to, ever agree on, on any of those either.
00;27;13;02 - 00;27;13;18
Scott Fitzmaurice
And like what.
00;27;13;18 - 00;27;16;10
Kristen Garcia
You said, new ones keep coming up, you know. So.
00;27;16;12 - 00;27;42;21
Scott Fitzmaurice
Right. I honestly, I love what you said about, that, you know, he really just didn't feel comfortable with that word. And so, you know, it's it's a word that comes from, you know, a history that, you know, is is something that we have to recognize. But I think that for folks to be able to self-identify, when the word first started being used, it was really just within the community, like even our allies wouldn't usually use it because they knew it was a little too close for comfort.
00;27;42;23 - 00;28;01;22
Scott Fitzmaurice
And so, again, relating to the N-word, same sort of thing, very similar as you mentioned. But then, it sort of got to a point where now, like, if people are really culturally competent and they're close allies and they're really within the community in a lot of ways, even if they're not LGBTQ identified and they use that word, it feels really comfortable to me.
00;28;01;29 - 00;28;14;09
Scott Fitzmaurice
If somebody use that who is really not LGBTQ competent and they're talking about the community, it still feels a little odd. So, you know, it's just my my experience. So I can relate to Charles, who is a great personal person.
00;28;14;11 - 00;28;43;27
Onjalé Scott Price
Yeah. Yeah. So it's it sounds like it's a lot about context and personal, personal feeling and, and for me, having I don't I honestly can't recall if I had ever said it before in, in some sort of context, but hearing Charles say that, I felt like that's not my word to reclaim. And so I'm just not going to use it like there's if someone tells me this is how I identify and for some reason I have to repeat it back to them, I feel like that would be a different situation, but I've just decided not to not to use it in my vocabulary.
00;28;43;29 - 00;28;46;15
Onjalé Scott Price
Just just to be on the safe side.
00;28;46;18 - 00;28;54;11
Scott Fitzmaurice
Well, they didn't tell us you were going to have the tough questions on this show without asking the, It's a good question, I guess.
00;28;54;13 - 00;29;02;18
Rev. Will Mebane
Well, let me let me make it a little tougher. So, Kristen, are you okay using queer? Do you use that in your language, your vocabulary?
00;29;02;21 - 00;29;32;02
Kristen Garcia
I realized in answering the question that I did say the word and I, I do identify, like, I'll either say gay or queer, because I feel like other words don't necessarily embody, Who I am. You are? Yeah. And, yeah, I think the greater community that I, that I surround myself with, you know, uses that as well.
00;29;32;05 - 00;29;40;19
Kristen Garcia
But again, just in terms of, you know, sort of looking out for it, how are people using it? You know, and I think that makes a difference.
00;29;40;19 - 00;29;54;04
Rev. Will Mebane
So and, Scott, I think I heard in your your response that you've had a bit of a transformation yourself. So how about your comfort level in using that in your conversations with people?
00;29;54;06 - 00;30;10;24
Scott Fitzmaurice
I love it because I get tired easily, so I don't want to waste too many words and it's nice and short. It also includes so many people, you know, the the queer umbrella, if you will. And there's a lot of things you can you can sort of include allies that are really tight allies and includes people who maybe identify differently some days than others.
00;30;10;24 - 00;30;26;23
Scott Fitzmaurice
You know, some folks, they may present their gender differently on different at different times, which is just part of who they are. And so it includes all that. It doesn't. I think, as Kristin said, it doesn't require them to be really specific at a certain time. And also to a lot of folks, you know, I always say that there's no such thing as questioning.
00;30;26;23 - 00;30;59;17
Scott Fitzmaurice
I find that, you know, for the most part, most people usually have a sense of where they're at. They're just deciding how open and honest and and how candid they can be about who they are, or if that will have repercussions. And so, just there's a lot to think about, but, want one thing I did want to talk about a little bit is just that, like within the gay male community, there's like, a little bit of, racism around, or I'm being Asian or I think being a person who is black specifically or African American, some of the cultural stuff, around community is being a little separate.
00;30;59;19 - 00;31;28;02
Scott Fitzmaurice
It's also really hard for me when I went out, you know, just to see, which isn't very far. And, you know, being at, you know, a party events over the years or dance events and just hearing comments out of people that I would never hear in Massachusetts, within the gay community. And, you know, being in a group of five people and hearing someone make a comment and not hear and hearing no one say anything and just being like, really just caught completely off guard.
00;31;28;04 - 00;31;41;00
Scott Fitzmaurice
And so I think part of it might be regional. I don't know much about that. I only had a small number of experiences like that, but it was unsettling for me. And maybe I live in a bubble where, like, I do this work and I'm around a lot of different people all the time, but I.
00;31;41;06 - 00;31;42;07
Kristen Garcia
Do.
00;31;42;10 - 00;32;10;04
Scott Fitzmaurice
Yeah, I think we do. But the people actually think that way, that it wasn't just a comment. I'm like, wow, like, this is really like, if that's what they're showing me, then then people are really should they really show you who they are? You know, so that that bothers me. And the Asian thing is a whole weird energy around it's our body stuff and it, you know, whether Asian folks or especially like, gay men are more feminine in some ways or, different body like details and stuff.
00;32;10;11 - 00;32;25;25
Scott Fitzmaurice
It's so weird. And, and so it creates a mini chasm in the community. And my friends who are Asian and are male, identified and gay in the community do feel isolated sometimes. And, I'm not comfortable with that. You know, it's just something that's a reality.
00;32;25;27 - 00;32;54;08
Rev. Will Mebane
But yeah. Wow. Thank you. So taking us back to, maybe before we go to our next question, just bring us back to the whole issue. Question of how racism manifests itself in the LGBTQ plus community. It was thinking about back in the 80s, when the Aids crisis with Aids was becoming a crisis. It was a pandemic.
00;32;54;08 - 00;33;33;13
Rev. Will Mebane
And, how different communities were reacting to that. And I know and the in the black community and I actually joined an organization called Aids Interfaith Network here in New Haven, Connecticut, and we were trying to get black churches to, treat black men and women with dignity, and not stereotypically and what have you, who were HIV positive for dealing with, dealing with Aids.
00;33;33;16 - 00;34;20;19
Rev. Will Mebane
And that was really hard, hard work that churches just didn't want to deal with it. They wanted to, you know, let them burn in hell with sort of the attitude of a lot of black churches at the time. And I know that was also true with white churches, but I also remember during that time how, there seemed to be society seemed to, see a person that was black with Aids differently from how they saw a person who was white with Aids, and I wonder Sky, and in particular, because I think you might be a little older than Christian, I'm going to ask you.
00;34;20;21 - 00;34;27;23
Rev. Will Mebane
Yeah. Do you remember that at all? Do you have any recollection of that? And.
00;34;27;25 - 00;35;01;28
Scott Fitzmaurice
I mean, I'm wondering if what you're alluding to is sort of that whole crazy thing from the 80s where, you know, there was the perception that people who were sick, you know, had brought it upon themselves and, and, you know, the whole thing under. So our conservative political years, where, where folks were, you know, penalized differently in our criminal justice system based on the form of the drug, not just the drug, you know, whether it was a powder based drug or whether it was a rock based drug, how that changed people's entire lives.
00;35;01;28 - 00;35;24;28
Scott Fitzmaurice
And and, you know, and and there was this whole thing about people being unclean or, or dirty and, you know, a lot of people don't realize that when HIV happens, you know, it it was a situation where people had just become comfortable coming out, accepting your sexuality, being brave, and then being told that you gay people were the only ones that could get HIV.
00;35;24;28 - 00;35;43;09
Scott Fitzmaurice
And for years, even when I was coming out in the 80s, it was clear that, I had to be careful if I was going to be physical with someone. But my other friends probably didn't that were were not gay identified and they'd probably. Okay. And that was sort of the messaging. And it was accurate at the time, actually, because it was more in the LGBTQ community.
00;35;43;12 - 00;35;48;04
Scott Fitzmaurice
But yeah. What else would you say about that? Very well.
00;35;48;07 - 00;35;55;01
Rev. Will Mebane
Yeah. I well, I remembering when Ryan White, right, was came.
00;35;56;08 - 00;36;03;23
Rev. Will Mebane
It was announced that he this young, boy, I think that teenager, I can't remember his age.
00;36;03;23 - 00;36;05;07
Scott Fitzmaurice
In a sense. Right.
00;36;05;10 - 00;36;34;29
Rev. Will Mebane
Right. When he, he was announced, I came out that he was had Aids. That shifted. That was a shift in who were in the whole society, at least in the United States. Right. And people who had seen, people with Aids as unclean and, you know, they brought it on themselves and what have you. There was a trans transformation in some people's minds.
00;36;35;01 - 00;36;40;17
Rev. Will Mebane
But that didn't happen with black folks, as I recall.
00;36;40;19 - 00;36;42;08
Scott Fitzmaurice
I think you're right. Yeah, yeah.
00;36;42;12 - 00;36;43;19
Rev. Will Mebane
Go ahead.
00;36;43;21 - 00;37;16;12
Scott Fitzmaurice
Well, I mean, I just I was just thinking about how, at that time and this would be a bit of a tangent. You know, we talked about racism and back, but just right back to that and, you know, whether people are valued, whether human beings are valued. And that's exactly what you're alluding to. It's I don't think there's a lot that was said about that at the time, but there is definitely the sense that, you know, the more, more levels of co identity you had, like the more points you were off in the game, you know, and but I think so much it's just this conversation can't happen without talking
00;37;16;12 - 00;37;39;18
Scott Fitzmaurice
about sort of the sexism within the LGBTQ community. And if you look at in 1979, 1980, 1984, people don't know that a lot of people don't know today that it was that it was the lesbian women who who came forward and who who held our hands and who stayed with us when we were dying. People wouldn't even go into the wards where people were sick from HIV first, you know?
00;37;39;18 - 00;37;56;11
Scott Fitzmaurice
And of course, the problem with HIV is, of course, they called it grid for us, which was the only problem because they called it gay related immunodeficiency. And that that set the whole path for if they had not done that, you know, in their naivete or maybe not, they would say it would have been really different. But, you know, as queer folks, we always have to be leaders.
00;37;56;11 - 00;38;19;13
Scott Fitzmaurice
We never been followers. And we know a thing or two about surviving a pandemic. As my friend Melissa Whiteman, quoted with me once, I was like, I love that girl. I'm going to use that. And so, so today, you know, we at thrive, we're open. We're having meetings every week. We are not curbing our programs. We made a commitment middle of August that we were going to ride this, and we were going to be accurate and be based on the science and figure out what we need to do.
00;38;19;20 - 00;38;42;13
Scott Fitzmaurice
So people are not isolated. You know, I'm in I'm in a fellowship in Falmouth that hasn't been meeting at all. And, I feel like the damage being done to the seniors who are so isolated that the memory loss, like a lot of the isolation. So to me, it's it's really about, you know, honestly and about pulling us all in and having us all get connected.
00;38;42;13 - 00;38;50;18
Scott Fitzmaurice
But but trying to break down this, this, this division and stuff. Kristen, why don't you jump in? I'm speaking too much.
00;38;50;20 - 00;39;22;20
Kristen Garcia
You know, and I think you all said it, you know, I mean, of course, I was still a child when, you know, in the 80s when this was, ramping up, and I mean, even now, right where I work, we, we work with people who are living with HIV and Aids and even now, you know, there's a divide of like, okay, you know, how did you get it?
00;39;22;20 - 00;39;50;03
Kristen Garcia
And, you know, there was this, you know, gay community, and now there's, other communities, you know, with, substance use, that has risen dramatically. And sort of the, you know, how the community works out between those two groups. And then you bring race into it and then it's. Yeah, it's a whole whole thing. But we have a nice little community over here, so it works out.
00;39;50;06 - 00;40;17;05
Onjalé Scott Price
Yeah. Wow. Incredible conversation. I'm. I'm learning so much. Thank you both. I think I think it's a good segue into our, our next question of how can racism and the Lgbtq+ community be eradicated. So let's go hear from our people on the street what they had to say, and we'll come back and continue this conversation.
00;40;17;08 - 00;40;47;07
Charles Evans
It would be, hi, going back into our history and again, I say, first of all, we have to look at our society. And home is a black and white, and it still seems that we are, living under the black, the white rule as, the black and brown. We have decided we want to fight. But we need white allies to come give you a perfect example.
00;40;47;07 - 00;41;12;13
Charles Evans
Why? Sometimes I say yes or no. We look at Boston Pride. There's no longer Boston Pride because the LGBT, black, brown, queer, won representation in the pride. So instead of saying, okay, we are going to open for our input more, they decided to disband it altogether. So whenever you say, can you be radically radical? Hate it.
00;41;12;15 - 00;41;27;01
Charles Evans
It would take a lot. And we need a lot of white allies to come up and give us that support. Otherwise, as black and brown LGBTQ individuals, I think, I don't think it'd ever happen.
00;41;27;04 - 00;41;58;05
Jynn Cursino
So I guess one way to eradicate or at least reduce it considerably would be, just thinking of everyone as equal. I know that usually the person who who is racist and who is, pursuing that prejudice has got it. It's not going to think of as everyone is equal. But, if they did, it would probably make everything smaller.
00;41;58;07 - 00;42;21;28
Jynn Cursino
And I kind of believe in and, and this thing that we're kind of one in a way. So wherever the concept that this concept of me and the concept you starts and vice versa. So having that idea, I think it makes it easier to avoid, racism.
00;42;22;00 - 00;42;41;25
Onjalé Scott Price
Welcome back from here in our people on the street answering the question, how can racism in the LGBTQ plus community be eradicated? So I'm going to toss it over to Kristen to hear your thoughts on that question. Right. How much time do we have today?
00;42;41;27 - 00;42;44;20
Scott Fitzmaurice
That's great.
00;42;44;23 - 00;42;49;23
Kristen Garcia
In being brief, now.
00;42;49;25 - 00;43;29;25
Kristen Garcia
It just reminds me, in the larger community, of how we can all come together. It's just, a lot around seeing. Seeing each other as one selves. Just being like, we are all people, in this together, and, we're all struggling and, to to different degrees and, we're all human in a way that, we can also support each other.
00;43;29;28 - 00;44;03;16
Kristen Garcia
And so just seeing the humanity in one and one another where I think sometimes we lose that, especially in the fast pace that we, that we might be, going at and, You know, even and thinking about, the events that we have for each other, the things that we do, for each community, you know, there are ways where like, oh, you know, this is open to everyone.
00;44;03;19 - 00;44;31;16
Kristen Garcia
And so everyone might join, you know, in the LGBT community. And yet still feel still somehow feel unwelcome. And folks with a high I wonder I wonder why that was, you know, and so, asking the question is like you might say, you know, we are doing, diversity, equity and inclusion work, you know, and but it's not really trickling down to the actual experience for, for everyone.
00;44;31;19 - 00;44;55;05
Kristen Garcia
Okay. And the place. So I think it's similar where, you know, if we, you know, doing work within the community, you know, you can say one thing, but, if it's not translating, to the whole group, then, you know, sort of asking the question, of ourselves, and doing our own homework around. Okay, how can we make this better?
00;44;55;05 - 00;45;28;11
Kristen Garcia
How can we improve this? So that it actually, makes a difference? Yeah. One thing that Jen said, the phrase that I really like is where I. And you begin, and I just thought that was of such a simple yet beautiful statement that really speaks to what you just said, Kristen, about. We are all in this together and if I look at you as an extension of me and I look at me as an extension of you, it's it's even better than treat someone else how you want to be treated.
00;45;28;11 - 00;45;49;29
Onjalé Scott Price
It's treat yourself how you want to be treated. And if we really take that to heart, you know, whether that's looking at myself, not me, but seeing a person who loves themself as a member of the LGBTQ community and reaching out and using that as the connection to somebody else who may maybe have a different skin tone, that that could really make a difference.
00;45;50;01 - 00;45;50;14
Onjalé Scott Price
What do you think?
00;45;50;14 - 00;46;21;21
Scott Fitzmaurice
And Scott and I think you got a lot to say. It's beautiful. That was just great. Yeah. I really, I mean, I, I've done some trainings before where I was running my mind how to do trainings in a way that's really different. And, I've sat in meetings so many times when, you know, I'll listen and, you know, a someone who might be identified as a woman and we'll make a comment, a really good idea, and then we'll move forward in the meeting, and then there'll be someone identified as a man who will say the same idea.
00;46;21;21 - 00;46;39;11
Scott Fitzmaurice
And and then not realizing they picked it up earlier from the woman. And then it was like, wow, that's a great idea. And that's all you should say. You know, I, you know, Patricia, that was so. Yeah, that was your idea from earlier. And I love that you brought it up, John. You know, because, you know, I think facilitating that is really important.
00;46;39;12 - 00;47;00;14
Scott Fitzmaurice
Like, I think that, you know, we have to be able to do that. I love the piece about, you know, us all being one. And so I always love it when I if someone's really driving me crazy or making my life miserable and I'm like, they are me, you know that if we're really are one and we really want to talk about some eastern, you know, thinking then that arguably, you know, we are all one.
00;47;00;14 - 00;47;20;11
Scott Fitzmaurice
And of course, is this great book of radical forgiveness by Colin Tipton. It's just I recommend anybody read it because it's all about the idea that, that which comes to you that's hardest is not only what you asked for, what you requested prior to this experience in some level, but it's about how you can, really realize that that's that's a gift.
00;47;20;11 - 00;47;50;02
Scott Fitzmaurice
You know, that it really is a gift. But, you know, the idea of, for us, I think, to become really different as far as how we see each other as us. And, it's really critical. I think some of the training that I've done have workshops that I've worked on creating are, that are different, are about when you communicate but you don't have you're not communicating with your awareness of the identity.
00;47;50;05 - 00;48;21;21
Scott Fitzmaurice
So when you it's cool stuff. So when you're in a workshop, but maybe you're reading other statements and valuing the statements without having first seen like who said those statements? So some of that, but there's some higher stuff where you can communicate through a screen with someone that you may not even know. And maybe there are voice changes, you know, and you could talk to someone for a really long time and not know their identities, and then letting people sit with that experience for half an hour or an hour, or working with someone for a whole week and not knowing what they look like, not realizing if they're, you know, have a disability or, or
00;48;21;22 - 00;48;45;10
Scott Fitzmaurice
they're person of color or, or if they voted for Trump or they voted for president or, you know, any of those differences, and all of a sudden you realize I cannot believe how much we had in common. And that, I think, brings us back to that piece of when we don't have that initial judgment or experience of having a sense of who they are, we don't bring those suitcases with us, you know?
00;48;45;13 - 00;49;13;07
Scott Fitzmaurice
So I think more of that is really important. But also our groups, we meet separately. A lot of times we have to stop that. We got to figure out how we can, you know, bring people out. One of the things we do at thrive is we have an 8020 rule. So for folks that don't have all those, easy access to our building and all those resources, we spend 80% of our time and energy outreaching to the seven priority identities that we want to focus on more, to make sure people come in here.
00;49;13;07 - 00;49;34;29
Scott Fitzmaurice
That includes trans youth, youth of color, folks with inconsistent housing. We don't use the term homeless, because it's almost like a label exists and housing is something you have. We don't have. We also have folks, disabilities, people who come from conservative faith based households, and there's 2 or 3 others. But, but when we do that, we have a really rich, diverse organization.
00;49;34;29 - 00;49;53;01
Scott Fitzmaurice
And so often people in the Cape say to me, how do we get people of color to come to our meetings? And, you know, I say, you know what? It's a lot about doing the offsite. And and just like if I want a trans person to come to a meeting at thrive, I know they have to deal with safe travel.
00;49;53;03 - 00;50;02;22
Scott Fitzmaurice
I know that they make $0.64 on the dollar on average. You know, they have less resources. Sometimes. So we have to take all that stuff into into consideration. You know.
00;50;02;24 - 00;50;20;27
Onjalé Scott Price
It's a very, very good point about the reaching out and thinking about all of these things. That is, I do a lot of diversity work in Falmouth and the most frustrating thing I hear, especially in the marine and ocean sciences community, is we just don't know where to find the black and brown science.
00;50;21;00 - 00;50;22;03
Scott Fitzmaurice
I know.
00;50;22;05 - 00;50;26;28
Onjalé Scott Price
I won't get started on that today because I'm not going to I'm not.
00;50;27;01 - 00;50;29;24
Scott Fitzmaurice
I'm going to check under the desk. I'll be right back.
00;50;29;26 - 00;50;34;08
Onjalé Scott Price
No one's right. I know, and it's well-intended.
00;50;34;08 - 00;50;54;09
Scott Fitzmaurice
It's well-intended, and it's a first step. But just like when we have conversations at the Unitarian Fellowship of Falmouth and people say, you know, we really want to become more diverse fellowship. And you look around and we are white, like hardcore white. And and I'm like, we need to get the hottest band in here on a Friday night and have food and offer free childcare on Saturdays for four hours.
00;50;54;09 - 00;51;05;28
Scott Fitzmaurice
And this place will rock. But it's got to be completely different from how we currently see things. We have to be brave and people like to do what they're doing because it's familiar. It's comfortable enough to really change that, I think.
00;51;06;00 - 00;51;24;16
Onjalé Scott Price
Yeah. And it and it has to be intentional. Like you have to think about the communities that you want to reach and that you want to serve. And what what do they need? What would what would want to bring them in. Before we started this episode, Kristen, we were talking about a, a group that you're involved with or maybe a part of up in Boston.
00;51;24;16 - 00;51;58;21
Onjalé Scott Price
And I think you said it was, gay women of color or something along those lines. The, queer women of color and friends. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So so what can you tell us a bit about that group and maybe ways that your group interfaces with, groups that are not specifically for people of color? Sure. So this was 12, 13, 14 years ago where when I was first moving to Boston, having no friends, I'm like, all right, well, where can I go?
00;51;58;21 - 00;52;31;20
Kristen Garcia
And my roommate at the time was like, oh, I volunteer with Quoc, which the Acme and so I decided to do that. And, there's just this amazing group of, people of color and then women of color. And we did a lot of, social events, sort of, for ourselves, just in different parts of the, the community sort of to kind of reach out to different areas.
00;52;31;22 - 00;53;01;26
Kristen Garcia
And you really got to have a sense of community because sometimes, especially when we're older, out of school, out of whatever you're like, how do we meet other people? You there's my job, and I'm walking down the street in the neighborhood. I don't know, and again, right. And thinking about if I still lived on the Cape, I think about that often was like, you know, where would I go?
00;53;01;26 - 00;53;26;06
Kristen Garcia
What would I do? Because now, you know, being in the city, you know, I can take the train, I can do this. I could do that. So there's a difference there. And then so that was sort of a sacred, group. And, you know, years after, you know, it's sort of morphed into something else, more of a media presence.
00;53;26;06 - 00;53;48;18
Kristen Garcia
Now, that was and then there have been other people who have tried to start similar groups or have their own, promoter, promotion groups, doing events in the city. So just kind of trying to follow who's doing what on what night, you know, because that's really all we get, is, you know, one Thursday night here or, first Fridays here.
00;53;48;21 - 00;54;14;15
Kristen Garcia
Meanwhile, you know, there are groups who, might be more predominantly white. Putting on events and, you know, still wear around gay people. But again, it's different. And so just trying to either work together or say, hey, you seem to be getting a lot of great venues. How can we work together to sort of do that?
00;54;14;15 - 00;54;43;25
Kristen Garcia
Because some venues wouldn't, be as, friendly or welcoming to, you know, the people of color, for example. So, yeah, Charles mentioned in his comments that the need of white allies for support and that kind of support sounds right, offering the space for the opportunities that the white people know, or they might not even realize that they're getting that are not being, complimentary to the people of color, to the other groups.
00;54;43;27 - 00;55;09;29
Onjalé Scott Price
And so that's a really good example of, you know, if your organizations or the organizations that that you're aware of that are for people of color are looking for spaces and they can't get into certain spaces, that's an opportunity for a white ally to say, here's I know of this space. Let me help you get into this space, or let me take a step back and provide you with the platform that that I have, that it's good.
00;55;10;01 - 00;55;31;10
Kristen Garcia
Oh, I was going to say it makes me think too. Lastly, just around like the access to information, if you were thinking about, let's say, social media and Facebook, I know Facebook isn't necessarily the most popular, thing for the young folks. Now, but, I talk with my friends a lot about, oh, what's up? What do you see on your feeds?
00;55;31;10 - 00;55;55;21
Kristen Garcia
Like, and what do I see on mine where it's drastically different? We might be interested in the same things, but just because we have different friends and, you know, the whole algorithms of who you see and what you see, you're not necessarily getting the same information, whereas like, oh, I know all these events and all during all these crises, the articles that I see and the things that I'm inundated with, I see all that.
00;55;55;21 - 00;56;04;29
Kristen Garcia
But then she doesn't, you know, so I think trying to reach out to people who might not have, either.
00;56;05;01 - 00;56;05;07
Scott Fitzmaurice
The.
00;56;05;07 - 00;56;23;07
Kristen Garcia
Same ideas is you just trying to sort of widen your circle. So you're you're taking in more, information that that's different than than what you normally have. So, yeah, you know, get outside of your bubble for sure. Right? I had rough.
00;56;23;10 - 00;56;53;07
Rev. Will Mebane
But what Kristen say, how much time do I have. You know, now I have my I've got so many things going through my my mind. But I'll start with the. So the people who are regular viewers of the conversation here on CTV will perhaps remember my sharing and saying and advocating for, not so many more allies, but more accomplices, you know?
00;56;53;12 - 00;57;12;13
Rev. Will Mebane
And for me, there's a difference. You know, I do. You can be an ally and say, I'm with you and kind of cheer you on. But what we need are accomplices, people who will, as you were talking, Kristen, about, you know, the space thing. People who will say, hey, I've got a space or I know how to get off space.
00;57;12;13 - 00;57;38;22
Rev. Will Mebane
And I'm going to work to to make sure your group, your organization is able to use that, that space. And, so I just want to advocate again for, all of these social justice issues. Yes. We all we we need allies, but we really need some accomplices, some people to stand there with us shoulder to shoulder and take some of the risk of suicide.
00;57;38;25 - 00;57;43;11
Rev. Will Mebane
Because as an ally, you don't really have to take a lot of risk, right?
00;57;44;07 - 00;58;10;12
Rev. Will Mebane
But if you're going to be an accomplice, it takes some risk. Okay. So I'll just say that, you know, this whole question of how do we eradicate the racism in the LGBTQ to LGBTQ plus community? You know, it it it's like so many other subjects we have on on the conversation, so many discussions we have on this show, that comes down to humanity.
00;58;10;14 - 00;58;36;26
Rev. Will Mebane
I love the comments, the discussion you all we're having about, you know, seeing one another as, you know, when I see you, when I see me, I see you and you when you see me, you see you. And. And that reminds me of a philosophy in Africa, that has, made its way to the United States in the last, so 15, 20 years or so called ubuntu.
00;58;37;00 - 00;59;14;04
Rev. Will Mebane
Ubuntu. Where, that's that's the whole concept. It's, about humanity. It is humanity. I, because we are or I am because you are right. It's all about humanity towards towards others. And a belief in a universal bond, of sharing that, connects all humanity. And for me, that sort of, the core of, of my, my theology, it's about relationship.
00;59;14;04 - 00;59;58;10
Rev. Will Mebane
It's about building relationships with folks and, that are not exploitive of one another or exploitive of other folks. And I love what what Charles said and, what Jen said. You know, racism is just a part of this society in which we find ourselves. It's just there. It's everywhere. So let's just acknowledge that and begin to have, as you were suggesting, Scott has to have the conversations, tough as they are, to have about racism in every aspect of our lives, including in the LGBTQ plus community.
00;59;58;12 - 01;00;04;09
Rev. Will Mebane
And so I think it begins, you know, it begins with that so that, you know, that's what I.
01;00;04;11 - 01;00;21;13
Scott Fitzmaurice
I was going to just jump in and add to that because I love that. First of all, you know, our name is we thrive, which, you know, it's not I thrive or you thrive. It's we, which is so beautiful. And, what you said about us culturally, I think being connected and breaking down the racism and understanding each other more is really good.
01;00;21;15 - 01;00;41;24
Scott Fitzmaurice
And then there's this other piece that I have to talk about as a person who identifies as white. And that is that you? I though that is that in this country, you know, folks can do some research on it. Vast communities of folks of color, black and brown folks and other folks were prevented from accessing houses after World War two, and people need to really understand what that did.
01;00;41;24 - 01;01;03;14
Scott Fitzmaurice
It meant that that huge the millions of people stayed in rentals and and rentals got harder and harder to get and didn't have credit and struggled. And so my parents were paying a few hundred dollars a month for a house. But, other people that, did not like me, their parents were paying, you know, 600 and then 800 and then 1200 and then 2000 for House.
01;01;03;14 - 01;01;23;28
Scott Fitzmaurice
And so moving more and changing more and all that stuff. And so there's this huge amount of wealth that became part of our story that, didn't happen for other folks. And so it's just important to realize that it doesn't mean that I'm a bad person as a white person, but to recognize that this has happened and there was some intentionality at the time about it is important.
01;01;24;00 - 01;01;47;01
Scott Fitzmaurice
And also to try to realize that, we have to change that going forward and figuring that out, to really have equity and really have people be treated and matter equally. So, and then, you know, thinking about what we value and it all comes down to that, what do we value? Stopping and talking to someone a little longer, pausing more and just hearing more and and remembering people.
01;01;47;01 - 01;02;02;22
Scott Fitzmaurice
And you know, I talk about the white organizing model all the time. You know, we schedule three weeks out, we do these big calendars, email people. And if you're an indigenous person, it's like, stop by my house, knock on my door, catch me on the street. But I get an email. I don't know who that's from. You know, like, is that really you there?
01;02;02;29 - 01;02;18;01
Scott Fitzmaurice
So a lot of those things people don't know. And so if if you're an organizer and you're doing things like that, you, you really, you know, helping to bring people in to, the best, most culturally appropriate way. But if you stop by someone's house and you show up with food when they're moving, like they probably don't remember that.
01;02;18;01 - 01;02;20;24
Scott Fitzmaurice
So.
01;02;20;26 - 01;02;23;06
Onjalé Scott Price
Excellent point that made theirs. Go ahead. Riff.
01;02;23;08 - 01;02;44;15
Rev. Will Mebane
Oh, I was just going to say I agree with you, Scott. And I've been suggesting that to organizations we have to find ways other than the traditional ways of communicating with one another, the traditional ways of being together. Right? And, I use the example all the time, but here in Falmouth, you know, you can you can have a flier.
01;02;44;15 - 01;02;54;18
Rev. Will Mebane
So we were talking earlier about trying to recruit, diverse the employment employee base. Right. And if we can't find them, we can't find them. Oh, my gosh, I've been here.
01;02;54;19 - 01;02;59;29
Scott Fitzmaurice
I know, I know, where are they? And there aren't any here. I love that quote. Like, real. I see.
01;02;59;29 - 01;03;02;06
Onjalé Scott Price
Them.
01;03;02;09 - 01;03;26;05
Rev. Will Mebane
You know, but if you put a flier up in, you know, in, stop and shop, shores, you know, yeah, some, some people of color might see it, but that's not the best way to reach those folks, you know? So you got to find a nontraditional ways of of communicating and, making connections with, with folks with WhatsApp.
01;03;26;06 - 01;03;35;13
Scott Fitzmaurice
You know, WhatsApp is a great people don't think of advertising on WhatsApp, you know, but that's if you're in the Brazilian community, that sort of that's how you communicate, you know, that's yeah.
01;03;35;15 - 01;04;09;21
Onjalé Scott Price
Wow. This has been an incredibly robust, interesting, exciting, educational conversation. I really want to thank Scott and Kristen for joining us today and lending your perspective and taking the time to to help educate us and our community. And as always, thanks to Rev for for being here and being an amazing co-host and another thank you to Deb and Alan behind the scenes at Sctv, who worked their magic to make this all look pretty and make it accessible to all of our viewers.
01;04;09;21 - 01;04;24;17
Onjalé Scott Price
So thank you all so much for joining us today. I really enjoyed this conversation. I look forward to seeing you on On the Cape at some point. Scott, I'm sure I'll see you around. Kristen. We might have to make a date, but I and I'll be back. I'll be back. Right.
01;04;24;20 - 01;04;29;06
Scott Fitzmaurice
And thanks for your groundbreaking show. I mean, it really is it is unique and we're really appreciative of that.
01;04;29;06 - 01;04;38;06
Onjalé Scott Price
So. Yes. Thanks, guys. All right, until next time. We will see you on a future episode of The Conversation. Thanks so much.
01;04;38;12 - 01;04;39;13
Scott Fitzmaurice
Thank you.
01;04;39;16 - 01;04;40;18
Onjalé Scott Price
Thank you.