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WKNC DJ Whippopatomus interviewed local artist Dr. Gary Beckman. They discussed how to navigate the arts industry, how to best market art, & some philosophy behind art itself.
Off the Record features interviews with local and national musicians as aired on WKNC 88.1 FM HD-1/HD-2.
00:00
DJ Whippopatomus
What is good, everyone? You are listening to WKNC 88.1 FM HD-1 Raleigh. We are a student run nonprofit radio station based out of North Carolina State University. I am DJ Whippopatomus. This is Local Industry Talks where I interview local artists from around the mid-Atlantic region. Here with me today is a very special guest, Dr. Gary Beckman. How you doing?
00:28
Dr. Gary Beckman
I'm doing great. What's going on?
00:30
DJ Whippopatomus
Good, good. Find the place all right?
00:33
Dr. Gary Beckman
I did, actually.
00:34
DJ Whippopatomus
So Dr. Beckman is actually my professor for my arts entrepreneurship minor. He's. You're actually been my only teacher in the minor. It's been pretty great, though. I feel like we built a pretty good professional working relationship.
00:47
Dr. Gary Beckman
I think so.
00:47
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, I think so. It's been great. Very enlightening too.
00:51
Dr. Gary Beckman
I think so.
00:52
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah. No, for sure it is.
00:55
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah.
00:56
DJ Whippopatomus
You want to introduce yourself to the listeners, let them know where you're from, what you do, your credentials, all that.
01:01
Dr. Gary Beckman
Sure. Just like Brandon said. I'm Dr. Gary Beckman. I direct the entrepreneurship in the arts program here at NC State. I got here in 2011. I designed the program and all of that. Before that I taught the same thing and designed the nation's first music entrepreneurship minor at the University of South Carolina.
01:22
DJ Whippopatomus
Oh, I didn't know that.
01:23
Dr. Gary Beckman
It's true.
01:24
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah.
01:25
Dr. Gary Beckman
And before that, I did my PhD at the University of Texas at Austin. Hook em horns.
01:30
DJ Whippopatomus
So hell yeah.
01:32
Dr. Gary Beckman
That's where I started all that.
01:33
DJ Whippopatomus
Where's your hometown?
01:36
Dr. Gary Beckman
I'm a Navy brat, so kind of all over. But I did the majority of my growing up in New York.
01:43
DJ Whippopatomus
Okay.
01:44
Dr. Gary Beckman
Saratoga, upstate.
01:45
DJ Whippopatomus
Oh, yeah.
01:45
Dr. Gary Beckman
And raised my daughter in Maine, so. So I'm basically a New Englander.
01:49
DJ Whippopatomus
Dope. Yeah. I think we have to let everyone know that there are other parts of New York besides the city.
01:56
Dr. Gary Beckman
There are definitely other parts of misconception. That's true.
01:59
DJ Whippopatomus
I mean, New York City is barely even in the state.
02:02
Dr. Gary Beckman
That is correct.
02:03
DJ Whippopatomus
Actually on the border. Yeah. So like I said, your class is very enriching and I know I've got a lot out of it. I know a lot of other people have too. And that's why I want to bring you on. Just to give our listeners that. That type of enrichment and knowledge and just to spread overall awareness about the art industry and how we can work that. Cool. So how long have you been involved in the art industry in general?
02:27
Dr. Gary Beckman
I'm a musician.
02:28
DJ Whippopatomus
Right.
02:29
Dr. Gary Beckman
Definitely a metal guy. So. So my. Basically my entire life, sans a little. A little acoustic period, has been electric and loud. So I actually Started playing guitar when I was nine years old. And I mean, I learned. Yeah, I learned basically, you know, finger style, blues on, you know, 12 string, six string, and all that. So I started with really fairly hard stuff right off the bat, and that's what fueled, you know, all the complexity that I love in music and art.
03:03
DJ Whippopatomus
Of course. Of course. Were you taking classes when you were younger or you just jump into it?
03:10
Dr. Gary Beckman
I just jumped into it, Yeah. I just jumped. Yeah. I mean, I'm a fairly oppositional, defiant person.
03:15
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, I feel that.
03:16
Dr. Gary Beckman
And thought that maybe. Thought that maybe, you know, playing something loud would piss off the parents. Yeah, I thought that was a good idea.
03:25
DJ Whippopatomus
It's an expression.
03:26
Dr. Gary Beckman
It is. Work worked for me. Right.
03:30
DJ Whippopatomus
Did they come to love it? No. I feel that this kind of brings my show full circle because I've mentioned you and other artists have mentioned you a lot in our shows, just like, organically a lot of times. It's crazy. From Iron Mike, SK Novelist, Cosmo Macho, Adam Suave, of course, and Joey Zen most recently. And yeah, you've really touched a lot of members of the art community out here by imparting your. Your wisdom on them. I know Iron Mike called you the sensei sent senses. I can't even say right now the sensei of, like, the art field, especially out here.
04:15
Dr. Gary Beckman
Thanks.
04:16
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, of course.
04:17
Dr. Gary Beckman
Surprise.
04:18
DJ Whippopatomus
Oh, no, for real. Like, you're really. You're doing great work. Like, thanks. No doubt about it.
04:24
Dr. Gary Beckman
But.
04:24
DJ Whippopatomus
So most local artists never really get the opportunity to go to college. So that's why I wanted to bring you on, just to bring a little bit more awareness of what they can do to better what they're doing with their art. Starting off, many local artists have a very limited budget, so they can't hire anyone to hire anyone outside to help them with, you know, their marketing, just with the different sectors that every business needs. Do you have any advice for artists just starting off that don't have much.
04:54
Dr. Gary Beckman
Of a budget on the marketing side? Some, I think. Some. Right. I think one of the most powerful things that any artist can do without being blessed with going to programs like this is to basically observe. Watch what. I guess the best way to say it is watch what the market or people actually consume for art. So if you're. I'm sorry to use the music example again.
05:29
DJ Whippopatomus
Oh, no, please.
05:30
Dr. Gary Beckman
If you're watching, if you're really into one specific genre, one of the most important things you can do is watch. Basically, people watch the people that go to these shows, and you can really Pick up a lot about what that market does. So, you know, you can pick out ages, you can pick out demographic stuff, you know, male, female.
05:51
DJ Whippopatomus
Right, right.
05:53
Dr. Gary Beckman
You can also. You can also at the same time observe how those artists are holding themselves and the marketing that they're doing. So, you know, you can look at very. You can look at interesting things. You can look at the posters, you can look at what the venue provided those guys. As far as marketing, you can look at designs as far as the merch that they sell and the kind of merch. Some bands, I mean, a lot of bands, for example, still go after the whole T shirt, you know, and hoodie thing, which is fine. But some are diversifying and really looking at merch as an art form in and of itself where, you know, the mediums change but the logos still get stamped, you know, so. So that's one way to do it, is basically watch and then.
06:40
Dr. Gary Beckman
And then once you do that a lot, I think it, you know, I mean, you need. There's always different groups of people going to different shows, right? Yeah. So once you get that sorted down and you start observing people, then the next thing you really need to do is sort of like watch where they go after and just sort of, you know, I mean, which restaurants are they going to, which bars they going to?
07:05
DJ Whippopatomus
Economic impact, in a way.
07:07
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yes. So basically you kind of want to see. See and observe your market at that show. And then where do they go after? Because if you know where they go after, then you can basically make an. Then you basically have an idea of how much money they have in their pocket.
07:22
DJ Whippopatomus
Okay.
07:22
Dr. Gary Beckman
So, you know, if they're going to a dive bar, you know, that they're. That they're not. Or McDonald's, you know, that they don't really have a lot of cash. Sure. But if they're going to, you know, a fairly decent, fairly nice sit down restaurant, something like that, then you know how much money they have.
07:37
DJ Whippopatomus
Right, right.
07:38
Dr. Gary Beckman
So. So once you sort of know the quote, disposable income of that group, then. Then you can hopefully start marketing and start talking to them.
07:47
DJ Whippopatomus
Right. You know, you know how to talk to which channels to reach them.
07:51
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yep.
07:52
DJ Whippopatomus
That's amazing. Hold one second, I gotta check. All right, we're good. I was paranoid. I thought my mic wasn't working for a second. We're all good though.
08:01
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah.
08:01
DJ Whippopatomus
So I wanted to cover a couple of topics that we've covered throughout the minor that I think is important to highlight and that people can really utilize first of all, I want to talk about ecologies and particularly, like, buzz. I feel that's a key component of any art venture. It is, yeah. Do you want to talk on that a little bit?
08:22
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah. The ecology thing is something that I developed when I first started teaching arts entrepreneurship as a PhD student at UT. And. And I. I had a lot of, you know, great mentors over there, really fantastic ones, actually. And they said, teach it. And there was no curriculum for this field.
08:42
DJ Whippopatomus
Right.
08:43
Dr. Gary Beckman
Like, basically none. Everybody was. Well, what little was there was basically borrowed from the B School.
08:49
DJ Whippopatomus
So business for y' all that don't know.
08:52
Dr. Gary Beckman
Sorry. Now you're good speaking in code here. Yeah. So a lot of stuff was basically borrowed from the B school. Not that's a bad thing, but it's not art. Right. And when we're talking about an arts venture, we're talking about an aesthetic, products. In other words, a beautiful product, something that possesses beauty however we define it. So that means that the B school can give us a lot of good information, but it can't give us all of it. So. So since we didn't have any curriculum, no textbooks or anything like that. Yeah, I. None. I mean, try teaching with no textbook. And that's why I fixed that and wrote a textbook. Yeah.
09:33
DJ Whippopatomus
I was about to say you wrote. And I love the 375 book in the 365. They really, like. Those are like, my main pieces of reading that I take from your classes. It's just so well put together, and it explains it pretty well.
09:45
Dr. Gary Beckman
Oh, cool. Thank you. Thanks, man.
09:45
DJ Whippopatomus
You don't have to really decode anything, like, with some of the other readings.
09:48
Dr. Gary Beckman
Hopefully not. Hopefully not. Yeah. So anyway, the mycology thing basically came from a lot of reading. I was getting my PhD in musicology, so music history. So kind of, like, ancillary to that, I was sort of, like, investigating arts policy. And that's just basically people having, quote, ideas to make art more productive or spread out more, distributed more. And. And I got really interested in that. And. And one of the things that they sort of didn't say explicitly, but implicitly said was that the arts of any kind just pick one basically lives. Lives. Lives in their own system.
10:28
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah.
10:28
Dr. Gary Beckman
I'm like, damn, if the art. If every art form lives in their own system, I think I can prove that it does, because at the time, I was doing a lot of, like, classical music.
10:37
DJ Whippopatomus
Okay.
10:38
Dr. Gary Beckman
And. But before that, it was all, you know, metal and shred and all that.
10:42
DJ Whippopatomus
So.
10:43
Dr. Gary Beckman
So my experience with the record industry, I Sort of like made a map, basically a small ecology, an ecological system of how the record industry worked. And I thought that was kind of cool. So then I moved it over to classical music. And that system is very different. Even though there's record companies and stuff, it doesn't really operate in the same way. So it stresses and weights other aspects of quote, that world. And it occurred to me that I had these two pieces of paper and I'm like, wow, this is bloody well how the damn things work. And if I had known that then I could have made much better decisions when I was touring with my bands, right. So I just started this whole ecology system based on that, based on. Geez, you know, I.
11:35
Dr. Gary Beckman
One, I got to teach it and two, I don't want all this B school stuff going on. And it's an. And you know, we're, you know, I was teaching in an arts college. Right. So let's think about entrepreneurship and really focus on the art side of things. Because that is what separates arts entrepreneurship from non arts entrepreneurship is we have special stuff. We have like this goo. Right. So, so slowly but surely I just started developing and experimenting a lot with teaching the ecologies. And once I got to.
12:12
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, it's fascinating.
12:13
Dr. Gary Beckman
For real. Oh, thanks. Yeah. And once I got to a South Carolina and I. And I had to start a program right then I had to like really get to the first, the first solidification of the idea.
12:28
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, that must have been crazy starting it all off for the first time.
12:31
Dr. Gary Beckman
It was, it was word. Everybody was confused.
12:33
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, I'm sure. But another thing I wanted to go over was go over a little bit more about branding, specifically about how artists can build their identity and what all goes behind that, how they can portray that. So like logo, artist statements, things like that.
12:56
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah. When we're talking about that part, as you know that stuff can get really complex. I think you have to look at it briefly.
13:04
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, yeah, briefly.
13:05
Dr. Gary Beckman
I think you have to look at it in two ways. One, what you want to do and to what the market is going to be actually receiving. So if you kind of go behind the scenes a bit, in essence, what we're doing is one person's identity, the artist is that identity is out there. When a market, when an arts market hears that and consumes that art, some, you know, because we have a special goo, some markets actually listen to that art and they make it a part of their own personal identity. Right. And we all do that with different things sometimes, you know what. You know, pick an art form or sports or whatever it is. Definitely. And. And once that. And that's what we try to do, I think in many respects as artists is we try to. And I think without.
13:57
Dr. Gary Beckman
Without knowing it. Well, some art forms, I mean, hip hop and rap are really good at this. What they do is they. Is they basically speak an identity on stage. Right. And the market is just naturally there. Most art forms have to really struggle to get that market going and to get that identity established.
14:23
DJ Whippopatomus
Interesting.
14:24
Dr. Gary Beckman
A lot do. A lot do. I mean, 2D artists have it really hard.
14:27
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, definitely.
14:28
Dr. Gary Beckman
Dancers are. That's like almost impossible.
14:31
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, I never thought about that.
14:33
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah, yeah, it's really tough. I mean. I mean, that's the great thing about hip hop and rap is.
14:36
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah. I never realized.
14:38
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah, it's very. There's no decoding that needs to go on with the mother art forms. There's a lot of decoding that needs to go on. Right. Unless you're a really good, very hip 2D artist like Banksy, there's some decoding that has to go on because you have to be an aware person to really get all the meanings of.
15:01
DJ Whippopatomus
The images, the intrinsic value.
15:03
Dr. Gary Beckman
The intrinsic value of all that.
15:05
DJ Whippopatomus
Scoring bonus points right now.
15:07
Dr. Gary Beckman
Exactly. You are so. Yeah. So anyway, when it comes to identity construction in the market, that stuff is really important. And getting that and trying to communicate that or trying to do that through typical sort of B school branding things, that does work. There's no doubt that it doesn't. I mean, everybody wears T shirts, right. So that's a nice easy way that the B school would understand. And we understand that too, because that tends to be our experience. And when we put those T shirts on, we're saying to the world that this is a part of our identity. So when you're starting out. When you're starting out, it's sort of tough because you never know if the identity that you're broadcasting from stage is really going to not only hit the market, we always wonder if it's going to hit the market. Quote.
16:09
Dr. Gary Beckman
Right, right. And that's the. I mean, that's why we, as artists are the most powerful people on the planet. It's because we have more guts than anyone. Yeah, Way more guts than anyone. Because we're the people up there. And many people would. I mean, many would say that. That artists are, you know, that. You know that they just want all this attention. Sure, I'm sure some do. I certainly never Did. Right. And a lot of the musicians and artists that left, all the musicians that I've played with and the artists that I've talked to, I don't think I've heard one who said, you know, I want people to look at me.
16:46
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, yeah.
16:47
Dr. Gary Beckman
Most of them are saying, you know, I'm doing something and I feel compelled to get it out.
16:55
DJ Whippopatomus
Right.
16:55
Dr. Gary Beckman
And that's what. And that's where I think we. We see true art. And I think audiences, markets, I think that they. In. I think that they implicitly, intrinsically recognize that's the authenticity of. And the power of what we do is that is. Is that, you know, if we're going to be burying our soul on stage, whether it be culturally, personally, mentally, whatever. Yeah, if we're going to be doing that, then that. Then we're taking a tremendous risk. But this risk could. This risk is of also. It's a powerful risk for us, but it could be an even more powerful risk for our markets and for our audiences when that happens. If they can attach a little. If they can attach a little bit of our identity to themselves. Yeah, that's the beginning of a market. Right? That's the very beginning.
17:47
DJ Whippopatomus
That's the goal.
17:48
Dr. Gary Beckman
That's the goal. And it's tough, you know, I mean, it doesn't happen automatically, right?
17:52
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, yeah. You really gotta be aware of how you're presenting your work. And like, the artists. Is the artist their brand itself or they just represent the brand? I forget how you put it.
18:03
Dr. Gary Beckman
It depends on it. Well, it depends on the market you're kind of trying to go for. Right.
18:08
DJ Whippopatomus
That's a whole nother thing.
18:09
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah. Right. That is a rabbit hole. Is the artist the brand? Extrinsically, I mean, on the surface, yeah. Intrinsically, no, it's not. I mean, the art is really the brand, and how it hits your market is really the brand. So it works both ways. Yes, it looks that way. And the B school would say, of course it is. And. And they would be right at that level. But again, since we got special goo, it really is all about the intrinsic stuff. And that's the beauty of this, because whatever we do in art, it's so bloody magical.
18:54
Dr. Gary Beckman
And since, I mean, if Plato and Socrates, Kant, Schopenhauer, couldn't figure this out, couldn't figure art out, then we, as the most powerful people on the planet are really playing with a mystery that no one else wants to play with, but they still want it really badly. And they don't know why. I still don't know why I listen to the music that I do. I have no clue.
19:18
DJ Whippopatomus
Right. And like, even researchers can't figure it out.
19:20
Dr. Gary Beckman
Right.
19:21
DJ Whippopatomus
Like, it has been researched a little bit.
19:23
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah, a little bit. A lot of the extrinsic aspects have been fairly well established. So, you know, age, culture, geography, education, and, you know, some of the more traditional stuff.
19:36
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, definitely.
19:37
Dr. Gary Beckman
So. So it isn't like that part's wrong. It's just a matter of how much it's weighted.
19:42
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, yeah. There's another element to it.
19:45
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah, yeah, there's a. There are. There's definitely another element to it. And that's how, I guess, the brain or perhaps even the soul really processes the art that's coming at them, you know, And. And that's sort of the mysterious part. I mean. Yeah. You know, I mean, you could take two people of the same age, in the same city, went the same high school, who had ostensibly the same, you know, parental makeup and money and all that. And. And you can see that. That, you know, they may like the same genre, but they may not like the same artists in those. And the question is why.
20:21
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, right.
20:22
Dr. Gary Beckman
And they may have very deep disagreements about it. And sometimes they won't have. And sometimes these disagreements or agreements. Yeah. Won't be nearly as deep. And the question is why? And that's what we don't really know.
20:34
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah. That's the beauty of it too, though. Like you said, there's beauty and mystery.
20:38
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah, there certainly is. There certainly is. And I hope we never figure art out.
20:43
DJ Whippopatomus
Right, right. Yeah.
20:44
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah.
20:44
DJ Whippopatomus
I do feel that. I do appreciate that perspective, like I said before, and that kind of touches on. When you're marketing, you want to engage the as many senses as possible and even want to consider the sixth sense, whatever that might mean to you. And it means something different to everybody. And that basically is what were just talking about, right?
21:07
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah, basically, that's it. Yeah. On the marketing side, since art is perceived and consumed via our senses, it's best that we speak to others in the same way. So as I've said many times in 365 value statements, positioning statements and artist statements need to be as sensory loaded as possible. So talk about how it sounds, how it makes you feel, what you can smell when you view this, or what you can feel. And the Sixth Sense thing, I think is also massively important because I think that, just personally speaking, I think that really connects to the way that art hits us. I have no idea how, but I've always Felt just intrinsically. No, I feel it, too, that whatever you want to call a sixth sense in art, they just latch on.
22:05
Dr. Gary Beckman
They're like two pieces of a puzzle, and there's more pieces, but those are two pieces that I think we can interlock actually fairly well, and that's been proven throughout history. I mean, just pick a culture, and for some reason, there always tends to be art around some ritual of some kind. I mean, people may call it religion or whatever, but that's the interesting thing about the way that human beings really process that sixth sense thing. I think some. I think some cultures really rely on ritual to the point of where it's so critical that it has to be very choreographed. But there's always art around.
22:51
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah.
22:52
Dr. Gary Beckman
Whether it be visual or auditory. Right. Or. Or even olfactory. Right. So. So. So there's all sorts of art that goes along with a sixth sense interpretation or, you know, understanding.
23:07
DJ Whippopatomus
Right.
23:07
Dr. Gary Beckman
Of whatever it is. I mean, art's everywhere.
23:10
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah.
23:11
Dr. Gary Beckman
We just. We may not recognize it because there's so much of it.
23:14
DJ Whippopatomus
Dropping bombshells back to the statements real quick. I don't go too deep, but I just want to mention, like, two to three sentences per value.
23:22
Dr. Gary Beckman
Artists and positioning statements. Yeah. Yeah. Two to three sentences max.
23:27
DJ Whippopatomus
Y' all can Google what those are, too.
23:28
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yes.
23:29
DJ Whippopatomus
Set the at your fingertips.
23:31
Dr. Gary Beckman
They are. They are. And. And. And thank you to the B school who actually got that for us. Okay. And they've got that stuff worked out, so thank you to those guys. But still, at the same time, we get to use it in our way. So what. So what we'll do to make us different because we got the special goo is we'll. Is. Is we'll leverage all the sensory stuff for all our value statements and all that. And the B school doesn't need to do that because for the most part, they don't have special goo. Most. Well, they do, but they don't really use it at all.
24:01
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah. So, yeah, it's something that artists kind of naturally take advantage of. I think that goo. Well, not take advantage, but like, it's more. What's the word? It's more present in art fields.
24:15
Dr. Gary Beckman
It's mandatory in art fields.
24:17
DJ Whippopatomus
That's for.
24:18
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah. For anybody who's listening, the magic goo we're talking about is something called esthetics.
24:23
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah.
24:24
Dr. Gary Beckman
And. And that's why we read philosophy. We read aesthetics, which is art philosophy, in our marketing course. And the reason why is because I've been a very big fan of observing. Like I said, at the very beginning. And what I've. And what I've observed is that the best arts marketing always happens when an artist or someone smart interrogates a piece of art, pulls out different pieces and then communicates that. And that's. That helps to pull out identity.
24:55
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah. Interrogate your art.
24:56
Dr. Gary Beckman
That's the, that's the most critical marketing thing I think we can do. And, and we're not trained to do that. I was never trained. I wasn't trained to do that until my PhD. And it's stupid that you have to wait that long.
25:09
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, for sure.
25:10
Dr. Gary Beckman
That's just stupid. So, so, you know, if we pull out that stuff, you know, like for example, what is the true essence of your music? It's probably 25 things, but if you can get one. Yeah. And you can say, oh, okay, the real essence of what I'm writing or what I'm creating is this. And try to remove it from yourself because, you know, it takes a while. A lot of it is self reflective. But if you can pull out the, the stuff that has nothing to do with a human being, then all of a sudden you got. Wait, you say, wait a minute. That's really something that probably other people would like to attach to their identity. Because. Because when you interrogate it and you really start to question what you're. What you're getting at is. Is a truth.
26:01
Dr. Gary Beckman
Little T. Yeah, a little T. Truth. And even if you can communicate a little T. Truth.
26:06
DJ Whippopatomus
Right.
26:07
Dr. Gary Beckman
To. It appears as if human beings are trying to gather truths. We're trying to make a collage of truths.
26:15
DJ Whippopatomus
Right, right.
26:16
Dr. Gary Beckman
You know, and that creates us.
26:19
DJ Whippopatomus
That's a good way to put it.
26:20
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah.
26:20
DJ Whippopatomus
You want to. After you're done interrogating it, you want to communicate what you got out of that interrogation to your market.
26:28
Dr. Gary Beckman
That's marketing.
26:29
DJ Whippopatomus
Exactly.
26:29
Dr. Gary Beckman
That's good arts marketing.
26:30
DJ Whippopatomus
And that's what a lot of people don't realize, I feel like. But yes, that's what I'm trying to spread the word. The good word.
26:38
Dr. Gary Beckman
Well, trust me, that only happens here because my colleagues don't know what I'm saying when I'm talking about that. What do you mean, interrogate your art?
26:46
DJ Whippopatomus
That's so funny.
26:48
Dr. Gary Beckman
I love them. They're nice people.
26:49
DJ Whippopatomus
Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah. I wanted to just go over some ideas that I might want to pursue after I graduate. So right now I have an internship with a bar called Slow Dive in Norfolk. Their art gallery slash venue. They do like a lot of art exhibitions along with like shows and stuff. So they're combining like different mediums.
27:12
Dr. Gary Beckman
Cool.
27:13
DJ Whippopatomus
So I don't really know what exactly what type of opportunities will come out of that, but one idea that has really stuck with me and I've thought about deeply since going through the minor is facilitating artistic retreats. And I talked to you a little bit about this before, but essentially like going out to the mountains or to the beach, a big house where we can bring a lot of creatives together, build off of that energy, but also like have some structure and productivity to it.
27:41
Dr. Gary Beckman
Like by.
27:42
DJ Whippopatomus
By bringing in workshops and like even icebreakers. Just helping people get to know each other and essentially networking. And that's generally the gist of what I want to do. I just wanted to speak that out loud, manifest it.
27:55
Dr. Gary Beckman
I think it's a good idea. Structure is cool. I will say that after meeting a lot of artists and working with a lot, I will say that as soon as everybody knows who they are and what medium they work in, and after you see and experience everybody's stuff, it's fairly easy to just have someone say, make it blue. And all of a sudden it'll just happen naturally, organically and things like that. The icebreaker thing is definitely important, I would argue, because in that way, who you can leverage, I guess, if you want to say it that way. And also at the same time, I think that. That when you get artists together and stuff like that. A nice calm area.
28:52
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, yeah, exactly. In nature.
28:54
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah, well, yeah, A nice relaxed area. It doesn't necessarily have to be in a nature place, but just relaxed tends to work well. Yeah. This said, it also depends on the genres you're trying to mix up. Yeah. If that's your goal. Unless you want to get, you know, the same genre together in different ways.
29:15
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, I don't know. I think I'd be open to having multiple genres. Just really depends who's interested and what type of artists or what type of artists in my market I can reach with that. Yeah. I definitely wouldn't want to have too much structure either.
29:32
Dr. Gary Beckman
Some. Some, like just enough. Just enough.
29:35
DJ Whippopatomus
Some guardrails. Yeah, essentially.
29:38
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah. Big highway, lots of lanes.
29:40
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah. It's not going to be a big ass party like we did last time, me and my friends. We got a big house on in the Outer Banks and Kill Devil Hills and we essentially did that. We didn't really know that were doing that. We just kind of did it.
29:54
Dr. Gary Beckman
Oh, wow.
29:55
DJ Whippopatomus
Like, okay, this is a thing we have like DJ sets. Like there's like three stories, like a spiral staircase. We really made a lot out of the space.
30:04
Dr. Gary Beckman
Wow.
30:04
DJ Whippopatomus
And like, yeah, there's DJ sets, people shooting music videos, people making music, people making art, visual art, like all of that. And that's when I really discovered the value in like collaboration and community, which is something totally. I preach a lot on my shows that's just a key component to any art field, but especially little A art. So when we say that, we mean non elitist. The little A can be elitist, but that's a whole nother rabbit hole. It is, but it is.
30:34
Dr. Gary Beckman
It is. The easiest way to think about it is. Is big A artist. Classical. Mm. Okay.
30:39
DJ Whippopatomus
Fine arts.
30:39
Dr. Gary Beckman
The fine arts. Right. Little A art is everything else.
30:42
DJ Whippopatomus
Exactly. Yeah.
30:43
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah.
30:44
DJ Whippopatomus
And so I think, yeah, just community. Community is key. Cuz like in Virginia beach and even out here in Carolina, I've heard the same thing. But like five years ago, people weren't supporting each other in their music. You know, there's, you know, a lot of quote hating going on. Just people just weren't willing to celebrate each other's successes. And I'm seeing that change. And I think due to that change and also the accessibility of technology nowadays, that's starting to propagate the art and music field in a whole new way that I don't think has really been seen before.
31:19
Dr. Gary Beckman
I think you're totally right. I will say, I think that. I think that oscillates. It's sort of like a sine wave that has some geographic tendencies as well. I mean, growing up in New York and all that.
31:36
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah. It's different in major cities too.
31:39
Dr. Gary Beckman
In major cities it's different. Right, exactly. You're totally right. Because there you have a lot of people and inevitably you're going to get haters and you're just going to.
31:49
DJ Whippopatomus
I would say haters is a sign of success.
31:53
Dr. Gary Beckman
Could be. Could be. Yeah. I mean, I get it. But then again. But then again, I mean, you know, in other parts of the country even. I mean, even at the same time in the Southwest, you know, I hung out in the Southwest a little bit. Some friends and everybody was really cool. I mean, the jewelry makers were way cool, but you could tell they were kind of like on edge because a lot of people make jewelry down there and.
32:18
DJ Whippopatomus
Oh yeah, yeah.
32:20
Dr. Gary Beckman
The market is kind of like. Right, so. Yeah, exactly.
32:24
DJ Whippopatomus
Competition, essentially.
32:25
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah, it's all about the turquoise. Turquoise and silver.
32:28
DJ Whippopatomus
Okay.
32:29
Dr. Gary Beckman
But. But still they were. But still they were relatively, you know, cool. But still at the Same time back home, it was like, oh, my God, you know, Bass Player X now has a band and is going to be competing with me and he'll be getting all the shows, etc. Etc. Therefore, I hate his guts. When in fact, you know, you could have a different attitude about it and you could say, oh, well, sure, he's my competition now, but at the same time, he's just my competition. It doesn't mean that. Yeah, it doesn't mean anything else other than that.
32:58
DJ Whippopatomus
Exactly. You don't have to have bad feelings about the person, but still recognize that is your competition. And you can. You can still coexist. You can.
33:09
Dr. Gary Beckman
Exactly. You can coexist. And. And hopefully what I certainly. What I tried to do and was sometimes successful at, not all the time, but sometimes successful in actually innovating the art or innovating the business side of things.
33:23
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah. Essentially you don't need to make your business personal. That's kind of, I think, what we're getting at.
33:28
Dr. Gary Beckman
I think you're right about that.
33:30
DJ Whippopatomus
Between other people like that, those bad feelings.
33:33
Dr. Gary Beckman
I think you're right. And at the same time, I think it's how we construct our identity. If we're going to construct our identity around a business, then seeing competition as something that you need to hate makes some sense. However, if you're seeing your arts business as about something else, just not that whether it's communicating your identity, if you're trying to get a community together or whatever, then all of a sudden competition is not competition. These are people that are going to be helping you.
34:07
DJ Whippopatomus
Yes.
34:09
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah. Right. Well, yeah, I'm. In a way.
34:11
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah.
34:11
Dr. Gary Beckman
A way. I mean, absolutely. I mean, that's sort of what you're talking about.
34:15
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, yeah.
34:15
Dr. Gary Beckman
Is, you know, is this idea of synergy. What can happen when you have this group of artists and you. And you give them a little. Just a small guardrail.
34:25
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah.
34:25
Dr. Gary Beckman
Let's just watch what happens. Because that's the fun stuff.
34:29
DJ Whippopatomus
Right.
34:29
Dr. Gary Beckman
And that. And that's where great ideas come from. They're very organic, they're spontaneous, and they likely have a lot more aesthetic content than the stuff that is. Tends to be commercially produced.
34:41
DJ Whippopatomus
Exactly.
34:42
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah.
34:42
DJ Whippopatomus
And another key component to this that you really opened my eyes to is arts infrastructure. And like in bigger cities, you know, they've had the labels, they've had the venues, and that. That definitely gives them more of an opportunity to showcase their work.
34:57
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yes.
34:58
DJ Whippopatomus
Versus, like out here in Carolina and Virginia and I know a whole lot of other states really just the states in between the major cities, it took them longer to get there. I feel like.
35:08
Dr. Gary Beckman
I think you're totally right. And a lot of the arts infrastructure that exists in rural areas tends to be smaller. They tend to go up and down a lot. They'll change ownership a lot. And they tend to cater to only one or two genres or mediums. Yeah.
35:28
DJ Whippopatomus
Rural art is a whole nother thing. I know. That's something you've been working on.
35:31
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah, yeah. I mean. I mean, basically, where I grew up was. I mean, there was a lot. There was a lot more trees than buildings.
35:37
DJ Whippopatomus
That's a good thing to hear. Honestly, I liked it.
35:40
Dr. Gary Beckman
I thought it was great.
35:41
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah.
35:41
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah. So, yeah. On the rural side of arts entrepreneurship, that, to me, is an area that to the field simply has not addressed at all, period.
35:52
DJ Whippopatomus
Right.
35:53
Dr. Gary Beckman
They haven't. So, for example, just here in North Carolina, I know that there's some bluegrass players in the western part of the state that are bloody out of control. And the question is, how do they sustain themselves? And when you have guys and women playing like that and they don't have. I mean, you just wonder why. OMG is like, they're not making a boatload of cash. There's no record contracts. They don't have a big marketing firm behind them. And what's happening with that? What does this mean? If there's all this great art, then what happens? It's sort of like the if a tree falls in the forest thing. Right. So if some dude is just shredding a mandolin and no one hears it, is it art?
36:44
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah. Yeah.
36:47
Dr. Gary Beckman
I don't know. All I do know is that I want to hear it.
36:51
DJ Whippopatomus
Right.
36:51
Dr. Gary Beckman
And I want that person to continue to make money doing that and continue to support themselves by playing that stuff, because I want to hear it. And my guess is that other people want to hear it too.
37:04
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, for sure.
37:05
Dr. Gary Beckman
And. But, you know, it's still hard when you don't have a lot of venues. You have to rely on. On festivals. And if you're relying on festivals, and then that likely means that you're traveling. Yeah, you're traveling. Then you're away from your loved ones a lot.
37:17
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah.
37:18
Dr. Gary Beckman
So, I mean, we all make sacrifices for what we need, but still, at the same time, the field of arts entrepreneurship as an academic field just has not addressed this. And it makes me crazy. But it's a new discipline or a new field.
37:35
DJ Whippopatomus
Exactly. Yeah. And just like, I feel like with the cities, suburbs, and rural areas, like the city's culture, I feel like is more aged, more developed maybe, versus like the suburbs that I've experienced, at least just due to the sheer amount of people that are in major cities. And that just causes interactions on its own with the suburbs and rural areas being more spread out. Spread out. They're not exposed to as many people and they can't really build off of each other. That's how I've always kind of looked at it.
38:07
Dr. Gary Beckman
I think in part you're right. I think another aspect. And this wouldn't be the. The fix, but, but we also have to look at capital. I mean, we have to look at infrastructure again.
38:17
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah.
38:17
Dr. Gary Beckman
So. So to build infrastructure, you need cash or you need assets of some kind. And if you don't have those assets, then, you know, having a desire to, you know, to start this venue on this road that, you know, 45 people go on in an hour. May not. May not, actually.
38:33
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, yeah.
38:34
Dr. Gary Beckman
So. So in many respects you need. You need. You need assets, but assets are that. That's a large term because there's financial assets, there's cultural assets, there's networking assets, there's. There's bank assets. Yeah, right. And there's all sorts of stuff. And there's legal assets, you know.
38:51
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah. So many things you wouldn't even think of that.
38:53
Dr. Gary Beckman
Totally.
38:54
DJ Whippopatomus
That go into it.
38:55
Dr. Gary Beckman
Totally. And this. Exactly. And this. And this is where, thankfully, the B school does help us out because they have this stuff all worked out and they've had it worked out for a while. And thankfully we can, if we want to, if we're really serious about something before we, you know, go launching into it, we can actually. We can actually ask those folks and start reading those books and taking those classes because. Because there's a lot of it that will be applicable. Yeah. Even. Even in a rural environment. But this said. Yeah, yeah, this said rural entrepreneurship, which is a thing is in the B school, is happening. And there's a fantastic guy whose name I just forgot over at ecu, and he's really big into business, rural entrepreneurship. He's a fantastic guy.
39:52
Dr. Gary Beckman
And the literature in that field in the B school side of rural entrepreneurship is crazy good. I mean, for a geek like me, it is crazy good. And these folks are doing really great work. And I think we're just on the cusp of seeing that work actually impact those folks who are not doing the arts. Now that stuff is out there, people like me with letters after the name, like me doing what I do, it's our responsibility to take that stuff from the B school and say, okay, this is what they say now let me go out and talk to that shredding mandolin player in the middle of the woods and then we could have a good conversation like why is your instrument tuned upside down?
40:41
Dr. Gary Beckman
So I'm bringing what that person needs in their experience and their culture, their desires, their identity to basically scholarships, to our scholarship and to our field helps students. And that's really what professors do is we read other people's stuff and then we do our own research. We kind of combine them and then try to make our students lives better.
41:09
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, it's all about that. Sorry, I forgot I was gonna say me too. But I did want to mention that with the collaboration and the partnerships with, especially with North Carolina, how so much business is coming in. It's really ramping up out here. But I know someone actually all over the state was the brand is Noriex Valley, but they have a friend in Charlotte who has a startup company that has been very successful and they have a nice piece of property. And my friend, he's actually gonna have a festival of sorts on their property, like basically a partnership. And it's just really cool to see like non arts businesses partner with arts businesses in that realm.
41:56
Dr. Gary Beckman
And I think, yeah, we need more of that.
41:58
DJ Whippopatomus
Exactly. I was about to say that's. That's something that needs more awareness around especially partnerships in general because there's a rapper named Tia Corinne, actually just interviewed her. She's out of Winston Salem and she's blowing up. Like she's really going to be the one eventually. Yeah, it's great. Really exciting.
42:15
Dr. Gary Beckman
Good.
42:16
DJ Whippopatomus
But yeah, she has a. Had a partnership with Bojangles. She made a song for Bojangles music video and all. And that just kind of blew my mind. I don't really see a lot of rappers doing that. And I think that there's a whole lot of potential to be had out of that.
42:31
Dr. Gary Beckman
I think you're totally right. I think that in many respects some of the entrepreneurial stuff that is available to us as artists, we're not doing in part because I'm not, because we, you know, we're lacking in creativity. I think it's because we're not trained to observe well. And I don't think that we're trained to put two and two together.
42:56
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, we're artists, right?
42:58
Dr. Gary Beckman
Well, exactly. I mean, we're artists. And what we tend to do, if you're a trained artist of any kind, you duplicate. Right. So you replicate, you know, you replicate this piece from Beethoven and you Know, this piece from Van Gogh, whatever.
43:13
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah.
43:13
Dr. Gary Beckman
And, you know, and that's how we build skills we're not taught to. We're not taught to, as I said, interrogate our art. We're also not taught because there's virtually none in quantity when we're not taught how to read case studies of artists.
43:35
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah.
43:36
Dr. Gary Beckman
You know, and if we're not taught to read case studies about artists, then how are we supposed to put two and two together if I don't know what these five people did as examples? Because if you read five case studies on artists doing entrepreneurial stuff, then hopefully you can say, well, this person did this and this person did that. They're kind of similar. And I bet you that they could go together.
44:01
DJ Whippopatomus
The thread.
44:02
Dr. Gary Beckman
Right. Exactly. Now, even though the business school, they have the whole case study thing worked out to, like, a T, it's crazy. And that's one thing that we don't have in arts entrepreneurship yet or in the arts period. We have history, which sort of like, looks like a case study.
44:17
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah. Yeah.
44:18
Dr. Gary Beckman
Kind of pretty vague, though. Well, if you're in it's not exactly vague, but the textbooks are vague. No doubt about that. No doubt about that. Yeah. I mean, who wants to read a Beethoven hand score? It's like, I don't know, E flat? I don't know. Well, my point is that as artists, if we're in a training structure, we're not trained to observe, and we're not really trained to put two and two together. We're trained to replicate. If you're not in that structure. I was not in that structure for a long time. What you end up doing is you end up getting what you can. What, when you can.
44:59
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah.
45:00
Dr. Gary Beckman
So if you, like me, if you couldn't read music early on.
45:05
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah.
45:05
Dr. Gary Beckman
If your ear wasn't that good early on, the only thing that you had was theory. You know, how is this put together? So if you're lacking, you kind of overcompensate, and that's all you see, because that's kind of like the only thing you can do. So all of a sudden, it's tunnel vision, but it's tunnel vision on the other side, too, because you're just duplicating, and that's tunnel vision. And your own tunnel vision is kind of cool in a way, but it's not. But both lack the broadness to really understand how to recognize an opportunity, how to leverage an opportunity, how to put my wrap into a Bojangles thing and then make it work and have the Smarts to do the networking around it and all the marketing around it and people around it as well, to actually make it work.
46:02
Dr. Gary Beckman
That, I think should be where all of us should be going educationally on the art side, no matter. The art form is. Yes, we need to know. We need to understand the art form to the best of our knowledge, and we need to produce the art form to the best of our knowledge. But we also have to live through the art form to the best of our knowledge. And life requires food and Maslow's hierarchy of needs. You need food, you need shelter, you need people to love you. And if you can't support yourself with that, then all of a sudden we've got a problem. And this is why I'm going to go back to something I said before. The reason why we are the most powerful people on the planet is because.
46:48
Dr. Gary Beckman
Is because we produce something that human beings instinctively need, even though they don't know why. But look at the sacrifices that all artists make.
46:59
DJ Whippopatomus
Absolutely.
47:01
Dr. Gary Beckman
It is incredible. And I've certainly made my own. The work ethics, the work ethic is crazy. But the consequences of what we do, which we can't even write down on a piece of paper, are really, massively incredible. And it's not just us. It's been going on for a long time. And unfortunately, our training structure, whether it be through school or not, is lacking. So we can't just go and get an mba because art is so huge. You can't understand all of it. We have to pick and choose.
47:40
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, we got different pieces to the same puzzle.
47:43
Dr. Gary Beckman
Exactly, exactly. And we may be putting together the same puzzle with different pieces. The B school, on the other hand, it's not that way. No. Those guys have all the pieces and they know exactly the puzzle. And good for them. Definitely good for them. But there's consequences on their side as well. And only they know. But I know that on our side, the way that. The way that we. The way that we decide to train ourselves, I think really makes a big difference in how we. And basically our outcome, you know?
48:25
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah.
48:25
Dr. Gary Beckman
I mean, as people, as artists, as human beings who are supposed to, you know, be doing good things on the planet and for each other and everything like that, I think that the art thing plays a far larger role than what it's being given credit for.
48:43
DJ Whippopatomus
For sure. For sure. Yeah. I hope y' all are taking notes. But on that note, we're gonna switch the gears a little. I also like to get to know the person behind the artist, or in this case, the person behind the Professor. Yeah. Just gonna ask you a few personal questions. First off, I wanted to talk a little bit about your music career. So you. You toured around the country. You want to talk about that for just a little bit?
49:09
Dr. Gary Beckman
It was. It was basically the same part of the country.
49:13
DJ Whippopatomus
Okay.
49:13
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah, Yeah, I had a. I had a Rush cover band when it wasn't popular.
49:18
DJ Whippopatomus
Okay.
49:19
Dr. Gary Beckman
And, yeah, so there's. There's a lot of Rush going on. And yeah, remarkably, at the time, I looked like. I looked a lot like Alex Lifeson. So. So I met my drummer at Berkeley. So I went to Berkeley for a little while, and he was great, and we got a bass player, and we all liked the. We all loved the band. So went and toured a while. That was fun, you know, made sure that, you know, I mean, in many respects, that's. That's in part how I fed my daughter.
49:48
DJ Whippopatomus
Right, okay.
49:49
Dr. Gary Beckman
Was. Was actually doing that. And that's where I learned. And that's where I learned the industry at the time. Right? So, I mean, the industry is different now. Way, way, way different. But there were. But there were, like, no books, right? I'll take that back. There was one book that no one could get through, so. So everybody was learning at the same time. So they were learning how to book, and they were learning how to do the marketing. They were learning how to actually run a tour. Right. And how to, you know, just do stupid things like make sure that everybody has a hotel room that night. You know, so logistics. Yeah, logistics was. It's pretty darn important.
50:23
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, it is.
50:24
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah. So. Yeah, so that. So. So. So that part was fun. And I did that basically. Right. Basically right out of high school for the most part.
50:31
DJ Whippopatomus
That's dope.
50:32
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah.
50:32
DJ Whippopatomus
Oh, yeah.
50:33
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah, that was good. So I did that for a little while. Had my own little record company, like Joey Sen does.
50:39
DJ Whippopatomus
Right.
50:40
Dr. Gary Beckman
I wasn't nearly as out front as he is.
50:43
DJ Whippopatomus
He's amazing.
50:44
Dr. Gary Beckman
He's killing it. I got. I wish I could do that. Yeah, he's doing great. But I had. Basically. It was more of a distribution company to. To. To the EU than anything else. Just basically some friends, sort of in my more acoustic period.
50:59
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, yeah.
51:00
Dr. Gary Beckman
You know, like, you know, just doing a lot of wooden instruments.
51:02
DJ Whippopatomus
Okay.
51:03
Dr. Gary Beckman
In Boston and all that and that. And that was really fun. And then. And then. And then, you know, then the daughter thing was. The daughter thing. Right. So you know. You know, I mean, you can only, like, live in a. I mean, you can only make, you know, 15 grand for so long, you know? You know, especially when there's doctor bills to pay. Right. Mm.
51:27
DJ Whippopatomus
For sure.
51:27
Dr. Gary Beckman
So I gave up music for a while. I've got a little electrical engineering degree.
51:34
DJ Whippopatomus
Okay.
51:35
Dr. Gary Beckman
So little. So that. So that helped a little bit too. No, it was little. It's little. Okay. So that helped a lot. So I was fixing Max. I was fixing Max for a while, and then I. And then I realized that my life was horrible without music. Yeah.
51:50
DJ Whippopatomus
Oh, for sure.
51:51
Dr. Gary Beckman
So that's when I went back. That's when I went back to school.
51:57
DJ Whippopatomus
You went to school a lot?
51:58
Dr. Gary Beckman
I went to school a lot. Had some drops too, self produced stuff, but they were dropped. And that part was cool. I got hired to play keyboards with a.
52:13
DJ Whippopatomus
You play keyboard?
52:15
Dr. Gary Beckman
Well, they thought I could. I got hired to play keyboards for a UFO conspiracy band in Portland, Maine. I swear to God. Yeah, yeah. They were great, and they're great guys and fantastic musicians. Yeah. So we got signed to a young American there. Okay.
52:36
DJ Whippopatomus
Nice.
52:36
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah. So, you know, I mean, the young American thing did not work out well. Okay.
52:43
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah.
52:43
Dr. Gary Beckman
As most refugees.
52:44
DJ Whippopatomus
Learning lesson, right?
52:45
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah. Oh, it was a learning opportunity, I'll tell you that. I'll save you from all that. I'll get angry. I'm still angry, darn it. Anyway. Yeah.
52:56
DJ Whippopatomus
So.
52:56
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah. So after that, after the. After the UFO conspiracy ban thing just didn't work out, I just continued on with school and I went back, you know, I was a returning student.
53:07
DJ Whippopatomus
Wow.
53:08
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah. So I was a returning student. I mean, I got into music school and couldn't read music, I swear to God. But my theory chops were badass.
53:17
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah. Yeah.
53:17
Dr. Gary Beckman
I had great theory chops. Still do for sure. Yeah. Because, you know, I mean, I couldn't read music and my ear was awful. So that's the only thing that I had. And, you know, and I can still play pretty good. So. Yeah. So after that, then it was all music. And all I wanted to do was just learn about the history of music. And I never, you know, there was never a goal. It's just like, wow, maybe I can get a bachelor's degree in music. And then I did. And then I'm like, well, I like this history thing. So maybe I can get a master's. If I can go back to fixing computers.
53:54
DJ Whippopatomus
Right.
53:55
Dr. Gary Beckman
And that's what. And that was how I got to a PhD was like, well, I can always go back and fix computers if.
54:04
DJ Whippopatomus
Things don't work out.
54:05
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah. Swear to God that. That's how I ran my life for a while.
54:08
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, yeah.
54:09
Dr. Gary Beckman
No expectations or anything. Was very Zen. Sort of like just sort of like, wow, you know, this road seems to be opening up. Let's check it out.
54:18
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, I know. I kind of feel like I'm on a similar path. I just. I'm just letting things open up for me right now. Like, I do have some backup plans I can fall on and. Yeah, I'm just taking the opportunities as they come.
54:29
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah, yeah. Good for you and good for you. And good for you for learning it early because there are not many who do. Yeah, that's probably a better way to live life. I mean, we're talking about the Sixth Sense thing. One of the cool things I think, actually speaking about Sixth Sense and the way that we make decisions about life or music or art or anything like that is being willing to trust. And I think this works in art too. If you watch animals, they have this really intrinsic trust with the environment that they're in that we do not have. One of the great things about watching that and observing that is that we can learn lessons about things. And if you watch animals just in the woods, it may seem as if they're doing stuff.
55:28
Dr. Gary Beckman
I would argue that, yes, they are, but what they're doing is they're actually trusting the environment to be in balance with their needs. And I think that they also intrinsically understand that. That a part of that balance may mean that they may not wake up.
55:49
DJ Whippopatomus
Right, right. Yeah.
55:53
Dr. Gary Beckman
And that really their life is genuinely in the moment. And that's what I think we can learn from our quadrupedal friends out there and our avian friends as well, is that it's this wonderful sense of trust in the moment. I mean, it's great to have big brains, right? But still, at the same time, I think that our big brains are not used and used 100%.
56:23
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, absolutely.
56:24
Dr. Gary Beckman
The right way. And I think we're missing a lot by not observing our friends in the forest and just watching what they do. Just something as simple as. As being in the woods for 15 minutes, quiet, and not think about anything. It's one of the hardest things you can do.
56:50
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, it is. Not a lot of people do that either.
56:53
Dr. Gary Beckman
That's true. That's true. And the reason why is because it's hard. But it's hard because we've lost the ability to do that. It's been a trade off, Right. I mean, there's been some good things. I love my car. Right?
57:06
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, yeah.
57:07
Dr. Gary Beckman
But still, at the same time, the.
57:08
DJ Whippopatomus
Trade off with technology advancing In a way, yeah, that's basically our distraction from. As humans, we used to do that and yeah, we just, we got away from that over time and yeah, I think we forgot some things.
57:23
Dr. Gary Beckman
I think you're right. But, but I also think you found an interesting nail to hit and that's that technology is a distraction. Yeah.
57:35
DJ Whippopatomus
In some regards, I guess. I'm sure there's some debate around that.
57:39
Dr. Gary Beckman
Well, I'd like to hear about this. So like, talk to me, man.
57:44
DJ Whippopatomus
Technology. So yeah, I mean, just essentially like we can go off of social media, for example. Like that's just, it's a drug essentially. I mean, with what they came out with Facebook. And like I just, I'm constantly picking up my phone and like, I catch myself like, why am I doing this? Like, I don't even need to look at my phone right now. And so that's one regard in our mind is like, it's like we live in an ADHD society and our attention spans are so short that, yeah, we can't sit still and just clear our minds for 15 minutes. And that's why I meditate, actually. I try to meditate every day just to do that.
58:20
DJ Whippopatomus
And it is super hard, especially when you're first starting out and you'll start to just question why you're even trying, but eventually you got to train your mind.
58:29
Dr. Gary Beckman
Exactly. I think you're totally right. I'll go back to my forest example because I like your social media example. My forest example is since I lived in a more rural area, for me going into the woods and just hanging and not thinking about anything, just listening and smelling was very easy. And now, you know, in adulthood, quote unquote, it's so hard all of a sudden. And I constantly ask myself actually the same thing. It's like, well, my God, you know, when I was 10, this was not a problem. So what's changed?
59:11
DJ Whippopatomus
Society is so fast paced nowadays and I think we have so many options and so many things going on that clutters our brain versus, you know, before technology, there were as many things going on just in people's personal lives. I think that just takes up a lot of mind space and it's a constant distraction even when you're not around it.
59:31
Dr. Gary Beckman
You bring up another interesting point. I would also argue that before we got all technified and I'm talking like even the wheel. Even the wheel. It seems to me as if we likely worried about the environment as well, because when you think about it. Because when you think about it, if you're just walking in the woods by yourself, think about all the stuff that you have to think about. You have to think about the feel of the forest floor on your feet. You have to think about what you hear. You have to think about where you're going to put your next step and all that other kind of stuff. I think that even when you're doing that, your mind's still working pretty good. I think you hit something really good when you were talking about technology.
01:00:27
Dr. Gary Beckman
Because when you think about it, I think you can make a case that walking in the woods and thinking and really articulating what you have to think about there to do it correctly, whatever that might mean. And now with technology, it's almost the same thing, because you're still feeling. You're not necessarily feeling with your body.
01:00:50
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, yeah.
01:00:51
Dr. Gary Beckman
But still you're feeling the need to pick up the phone. And the question is, why? Right. So you ask yourself that question. Now, I would also ask the question at the same time. If you're. If you're in the woods walking, why do you need to feel your feet anyway? Well, there's two answers, right? So one answer is, you don't want to fall into a hole, right? Because over here, there's copperheads. I know. Yeah. Get those things away from me. Rattlesnakes are easier up north because you can always hear them anyway. Because of the copperheads, you can't. And that's the extrinsic reason. But the intrinsic reason is, I think, why don't you want to fall into that hole, right? Is it just extrinsic and you got to save your life, or is it something else?
01:01:41
Dr. Gary Beckman
And then on the technology side, it's like, why am I picking up my phone? Is it just because I feel a need, or is it something else? That's.
01:01:54
DJ Whippopatomus
That's deep. On that note, though, we're running out of time. I wanted to ask you one more fun question.
01:02:01
Dr. Gary Beckman
Sure.
01:02:03
DJ Whippopatomus
Let's see. Actually, I'm gonna just ask you who are some of your favorite artists right now? Top three. Ish. It can be any medium, really. Okay, I know it's a hard question here. I'll go first, and then you go first. So music wise, I'll go off of what I grew up off of that I kind of built my. My foundation of music. Off of my top three is Tyler the Creator, Kid Cudi, and A$AP Rocky. Yeah, yeah. They have a lot of influence in my life.
01:02:37
Dr. Gary Beckman
A$AP. Rocky. Yes, absolutely.
01:02:39
DJ Whippopatomus
You know about them?
01:02:40
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yes, I do.
01:02:40
DJ Whippopatomus
Nice.
01:02:41
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yes, I do. Okay, so for me, I guess on the music side, I'm a big prog metal guy, so if. Yeah, so if it's complicated, I need to hear it. Yeah, so. So I'm enamored with Tool right now. Big Tool fan.
01:02:54
DJ Whippopatomus
So they're out of Prague, Is that what you mean?
01:02:58
Dr. Gary Beckman
No, Progressive rock. Sorry, Not. No, not Frog. The city. Yeah, so, yeah, so Tools. Tools are big one. And then, you know, I mean, the old school rush stuff is still okay, you know, an important part of my life and. I'm not sure how I feel about Opeth anymore. Yeah, they're playing PRSS and that's just not metal.
01:03:30
DJ Whippopatomus
Okay.
01:03:31
Dr. Gary Beckman
But on the 2D art side, I'm a massive Banksy fan.
01:03:35
DJ Whippopatomus
Okay.
01:03:36
Dr. Gary Beckman
I like Banksy because he makes you think. And on the photography side, I'm also a big Ansel Adams fan.
01:03:44
DJ Whippopatomus
Okay. I'm not familiar. Yeah, he sounds familiar though.
01:03:47
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah, he was the guy in the 20s, 30s, 40s who took all those silver plate black and white photos of Yosemite.
01:03:56
DJ Whippopatomus
Oh, okay, that kind of. So he's like one of the first photographers, right?
01:04:00
Dr. Gary Beckman
Well, I don't think he was one of the first, but. But he was, he was one of the first big American ones. The guy was friggin incredible. And, and he's. He's taught me so much about how to look at things. It's insane that. That's the beauty about photographers. I mean, they see stuff that we can't.
01:04:18
DJ Whippopatomus
Interesting.
01:04:18
Dr. Gary Beckman
Yeah, so. So, you know, Banksy's. Banksy is good. You know, Tool side is pretty cool.
01:04:25
DJ Whippopatomus
Oh yeah.
01:04:26
Dr. Gary Beckman
You know, so if, like I said, if it's hard to play, I want to play it.
01:04:31
DJ Whippopatomus
Love to hear it. Yeah. So I'm a start wrapping things up. Dr. B has been a pleasure.
01:04:37
Dr. Gary Beckman
Same here.
01:04:37
DJ Whippopatomus
Been looking forward to this for a minute. I really appreciate you imparting your wisdom with us today.
01:04:42
Dr. Gary Beckman
Well, I hope it helps someone. And if, and if anybody's in Raleigh and enrolled and just like check out the minor, all you have to do is email me and I'll be glad to talk to you about it.
01:04:52
DJ Whippopatomus
Yeah, NC State students. Check it out. It's really something else. It's unlike any other program, really. Thanks and I appreciate each and every single one of you for tuning in. You can check out the interview I did with other local artists wknc.org/podcast and click on Off the Record. I am DJ Whippopatomus. This is Local Industry Talks. And I was here with Dr. Gary Beckman on WKNC 88.1 FM HD-1 Raleigh. What's good everyone? This is post editing Whippo. I just had to say a few things. As I said earlier, this is the very last episode of Local Industry Talks. I am graduating and moving back to my hometown of Norfolk, Virginia because we actually have an amazing art scene out there too. But hopefully this is not goodbye as I will be starting my own podcast called the Real Show.
01:05:55
DJ Whippopatomus
So feel free to follow me on Instagram Whippopatomus spelled like hippopotamus, but with a W in front to stay up to date on all that. This is only one step in my journey in the art world. I gotta shout out WKNC for allowing me this opportunity and for welcoming me with open arms. Y'all have really made my college experience so much better and this has opened so many different doors for me. I gotta give a special shout out to our student advisor, Jamie and our GM Maddie for their support and for giving me the creative freedom to do what I did. And one last shout out to all the underground DJs for holding it down. Imma miss y'all. Make sure you check out WKNC’s schedule on wknc.org to check out all of them.
01:06:46
DJ Whippopatomus
And again, for the last time, I am DJ Whippipotamus and this was Local Industry Talks. And please don't forget, we are truly stronger together, which is why it is important that we show each other love and uplift one another as a community. Y'all be easy.