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"Building the Base" - an in-depth series of conversations with top entrepreneurs, innovators, and leaders from tech, financial, industrial, and public sectors.
Our special guests provide their unique perspectives on a broad selection of topics such as: shaping our future national security industrial base, the impact of disruptive technologies, how new startups can increasingly contribute to national security, and practical tips on leadership and personal development whether in government or the private sector.
Building the Base is hosted by Lauren Bedula, is Managing Director and National Security Technology Practice Lead at Beacon Global Strategies, and the Honorable Jim "Hondo" Geurts who retired from performing the duties of the Under Secretary of the Navy and was the former Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Research, Development & Acquisition and Acquisition Executive at United States Special Operations Command.
Lauren Bedula 00:00
Welcome back to the digital warfighting series with CENTCOM. This episode will focus on the digital side of partnered operations. For this episode, we're specifically going to dig into the international components and with us today is Lieutenant Colonel Tuni. Massey. Sir, thank you so much for joining us.
LTC Tuni Masi 00:18
Oh, thank you. Good to be here.
Hondo Geurts 00:19
So Tuni , how does a Brit end up here over in Central Command and what got you in involved in the Army on the British side? And then how did your career wind up here over kind of running the coalition partner and operations activities here at Central Command?
LTC Tuni Masi 00:37
Yeah, so we've got a small detachment here of Brits headed up by a general, there's actually a few British generals here, but we’re here, there's a team of about 20. And some of us are embedded within CENTCOM. My role is I'm embedded within the J6 branch - so those that deal with information systems, technology, communication systems. And that's because my background is in that I've spent 19 years in the British Army, dealing with all things associated with communication systems, from the tactical edge right through to this strategic level.
Hondo Geurts 01:18
What got you in the army to begin with and kind of focus in this area?
LTC Tuni Masi 01:23
I'm an engineer by my background. So, university, I studied engineering, as always, a little bit of an outdoor enthusiast, and I think the draw of the military finally got me. This is where I ended up.
Lauren Bedula 01:35
You mentioned the collaborative partner environment, which is within the J6, which essentially is the communications arm, if you will, of CENTCOM. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about what the J6 is responsible for? And why CPE exists?
LTC Tuni Masi 01:52
Yeah, sure. So, the J6 is, it's a staff branch. So, as a function, it provides the support to the operations and the support that's associated with communications and effect, providing, providing that the collaborative partner environment is a is a program that's been developed to allow information sharing with coalition partners or mission partners. And it's a development which CENTCOM has really taken the lead with, not just amongst, within CENTCOM itself, but within the DOD, it's a real pathfinder for the DOD with regards to sharing information with its partners.
Hondo Geurts 02:37
So, I mean, maybe you've taken even up a level from that a lot of our listeners who may not be familiar with the military, when we talk about partnered operations, we're really talking about, you know, coming from militaries from multiple countries working together, either in in a task force or in a mission or in an operation. And they may not be familiar of how frequently we actually do that. I think sometimes everybody thinks our country kind of does our country’s thing. I think one of the enduring strengths of democracies are that they can attract partners and that partners can work together, what what's your experience in terms of how often in your career you've kind of worked in this partner and why it's so important for us to figure out how to create an environment where we can do that effectively.
LTC Tuni Masi 03:29
So operationally, I've never deployed without a partner, a coalition partner, the US actually in every instance. So multiple tours of Afghanistan were worked closely, not only with the US, but with the other partners. At the time, it was the ISAF part of the NATO element there to support operations, ongoing operations. Throughout my career as well, we I know, we discussed this offline, but I've had the fortune of working, doing an exchange program with the US so we get to understand how the US works. And the reciprocal side of that is my compatriot the US officers back in the UK understanding how the UK do their business as well. Without a doubt, we are stronger together. When we're on operations, if we're part of a partnership, and this is what coalition partner environment is really aimed at getting in
Hondo Geurts 04:31
Most in the tech world probably would assume we'd figure it out, but haven't figured out all the data and how to get communication systems that talk to each other, and you know, all those elements. What's your experience, been with some of the frustrations that you've seen over the years that are leading you into this effort to try and come up with a better way to do this as a matter of practice, not just something we jury rig once we're on the battlefield.
LTC Tuni Masi 05:02
I think one of the big challenges and this is why CPE has been being developed now and rolled out is if there is a requirement for partners to share information, there's often a network and information system built for that purpose. And that information system, that network take months, could take years to establish and stand up and really get it oiled. So, it's working as the machine that you intended it to work as that time to set up and build a network is not reflected when, for example, there is a new mission, or there is a new threat, especially within the area of operations of something like CENTCOM. So being able to rapidly stand up a network. And it for it to be agile and meet the mission is something which currently we have difficulty in achieving. But what cpe is trying to do is, is kind of break down those barriers to allow us to quickly and rapidly not just stand up the networks but allow that exchange and sharing of information.
Lauren Bedula 06:07
So when you when you stand up a network, does that automatically translate to a data sharing agreement? Are those the same thing or different?
LTC Tuni Masi 06:15
No, they need to be. So, a lot of that goes on in the background. So, there's kind of the technical side to this. So, as an engineer, you understand how to build the network as it were and configure it. But equally running almost concurrent to that is the requirement for the policies, the agreements to share information, how they're understood, and formed, that needs to be running as well at the side. So sometimes that can take longer than the network engineering part. But both need to happen in order for this to be achieved.
Lauren Bedula 06:48
And you mentioned, just the importance of partnerships that go beyond the UK in the US. So, I imagine you've deployed with other countries as well or working with larger groups, what happens when we have a data sharing agreement, so we as the US with several different countries, but they don't with each other? How does this all work?
LTC Tuni Masi 07:09
As we think about networks, what we're trying to achieve with CPE, is what we're looking at over 55 partners, and establishing an environment that allows the US primarily because the US owns this system to share information with those 55 partners. Now it could be to everyone, or it could be just to particular individual nations, or small groups of nations within that collective of 55 plus so that's almost the requirements. How we go about achieving that is through the technologies that we've implemented. So, as I mentioned previously, we'd need to build single networks to achieve that. Whereas with CPE, we're able to build a single network, if you want to call it that. But place controls within, that network that allows you to say, well, actually, country's ABC, you can read, for example, the first if you think of the system as a book, you can read the first three chapters of this book, whereas countries, d f, they've got access to all the chapters in that book, if you have them in there if there's 100 chapters in a book, so it's been able to control access to that information. And that sits with the owner of this, which is us.
Hondo Geurts 08:33
So, you know, for those out there nonmilitary, you can think of a commercial company who's buying 65 other companies and then trying to figure out how to get all the networks and the payroll and data sharing all working. It seems challenging. What's kind of your first steps in this and kind of explain kind of the journey you're taking from concept because this concept has been around for a while I remember it from my special ops days, but it's always been, you know, concept, getting to actual practice has been a real challenge. What's, what's the journey been like so far, kind of what progress are you making, and where are you facing the biggest obstacles?
LTC Tuni Masi 09:11
So my role, it rotates every 12 months. So, I'm coming towards the end. Now, my predecessors’ British officers have been involved in this journey as well. So, three or four of those have been involved in this. And the journey has taken us from the requirement that operational requirements to do this through to some of the technology that's driving this as well. And we've got the zero trust architectures, data centricity as some of the kind of the buzzwords associated with it, but they're also part of this drive. And the requirement for funding to achieve this as well. We have all of that. Now. It's in place and we're seeking to operationalize CPE this year. So, we'll see the first elements have this been rolled out to the CENTCOM partners that will allow the US to share information with them in this particular way.
Hondo Geurts 10:09
From your past experience, having to MacGyver all these networks together, once you're through – what is this going to enable, you know, as CENTCOM goes through this digital transformation, how is that going to affect your day-to-day activities, efficiencies, your role, I mean, how transformational and you see this, for the coalition to be able to have this in place.
LTC Tuni Masi 10:35
I think this is a moment, real moment in time where we see huge benefit to how information is shared. CENTCOM doing it now with within its within its area of operations, and its partners within that area. But I see it being not just replicated within the other combatant commands within the Department of Defense, but also wider as well, where other partners who have similar systems are able to adopt this technology. In terms of the benefits, realizing these benefits, it's things from being able to share video. So, if we think about full motion video, so sharing that, with partners, being able to select what videos partners see through to being able to allow information to be exchanged, whether that be voice, with partners, as well, equally, so it's in a secure manner, which is something that's not been done before,
Lauren Bedula 11:40
I'm going to come back to cyver and the secure manner, because we can, of course, understand the obstacles to creating a system like this in terms of the attack surface, or how important it is to protect this information. But just wanted to emphasize how exciting it is to hear us go from, you know, not just building relationships, or colocating entities or exchange programs like you've participated in the past, but really building a digital architecture that can facilitate the sharing of information in real time. But can you elaborate a little bit on how security is a consideration here and how you're thinking about the zero-trust architecture, as part of this?
LTC Tuni Masi 12:19
The way that we secure it is very different to how it's done previously. And this is what sets CPE apart from other systems. Traditionally, if you think about a normal system, it's a single network, once you have access to the network, you can see whatever is on the network, with CPE, very different with this level of control is applied at the object level, that's the lowest level. And when we say objects, we mean the data level. So, as I like my little book analogy, but if my book you could secure, you could control who reads each individual page within that book. So even though you may have the book, you're physically holding it, you're able to open that book, you would only be able to read the page based upon your particular attributes. So, whether that be your nationality, whether that be your level of security. That's the level of detail the level of fidelity that we can achieve.
Lauren Bedula 13:26
We alluded to just private sector examples of going through this when companies are merging or communities are looking to oversimplify it, maybe use Slack or information environments to share between groups, not just individuals. How are how is CENTCOM working with the private sector if at all, or tech companies to build the system?
LTC Tuni Masi 13:48
So yes, CENTCOM works with a whole host of private vendors, we use technologies that help security information that help as part of zero trust is a requirement to enforce policies. So, it's a dynamic policy engine is running in the background that's constantly assessing whether an individual has particular access to information. So those tools are we take from industry, and we're involved not only in using them, but also in developing them as well.
Hondo Geurts 14:22
Yeah I mean, if I think back to the old days, our old approach was build a new building and control access by who can have access to the building and when you're going to have a different partner relationship, you create another building or another office in the building, and then you ended up having these buildings of buildings of buildings. Did you sense that? Are you feeling good about where cpe is in terms of making the technical progress and then how are you starting to think through once we get the CPE up and running? All of us have a history of how we've always operated, which that culture is going to impact the speed at which you take advantage of a system like this. How are you thinking through the operating procedures and the culture and everything else that will really be required to enable this to operate at scale?
LTC Tuni Masi 15:16
There are two parts to this. At the individual level, there is definitely a change in culture needed. The responsibility that's placed upon the user is greater with CPE you are responsible for ensuring the data that you create or the data that you're willing to share is appropriately tagged and marked. So that's something which will require a change from a user perspective, equally, there is a change in the way that the systems are assessed. So, say assessed in terms of the accreditation of systems. And that's something that is a real challenge for the program. It's something we're working daily on with the DOD and wider agencies to ensure that this, which is a very different way of doing business, is appropriately assessed and meets their requirements.
Lauren Bedula 16:13
What’s the way forward look like? You talked about big milestone this year, but this isn't something that is common throughout DOD. Is that right?
LTC Tuni Masi 16:21
That's right. Yeah. So, from a CENTCOM perspective, we're looking at operationalizing this so that what that means is getting it out to not only the US is here within the headquarters in CENTCOM of which there are the partners have their representatives here, but it's also getting it down to the next level to our component commands, and out to the partners within CENTCOM AOR. So, within the broader Middle East region, getting CPE out to them so that that information sharing can occur. Outside of CENTCOM, other combatant commands, are also seeking to develop this type of capability. We know that INDOPACOM is doing a lot of work on this at the moment, and they're not too far behind in deploymeny, probably not the right word. But there, they're also developing this as well. And there is also interest within EUCOM and SOUTHCOM as well to achieve this. So yeah, leading the way, which I think is a real benefit and kind of a positive reflection on CENTCOM. But what we're doing is being shared across the COCOMs, across the DOD, so that that what we've the work we've done, the architecture that we've implemented is available for all to use.
Hondo Geurts 17:41
I mean, the DOD has talked forever about being data enabled, or a data powered service without an environment, it's hard to be data enabled, particularly across a coalition. You are about to finish up here and go back out in the field and take command. When \ you're out and come in is a battalion commander, put yourself their CPE is now fielded we're six months, 12 months from now. How does it impact you in the field? Because sometimes these things I think, can be confused as a headquarters centric, you know, so folks can pass around PowerPoint charts. If we're successful with this, which we've been on the journey for a while, how does it impact a person in 05 command somewhere out in the field doing operations?
LTC Tuni Masi 18:33
It's not just the ability just to maybe make a phone call or, or share a file via email, it's much more than that. It's the ability to share information that is pertinent to whatever effect that you're trying to achieve. So, I'll use my example, I'm going to take over an electronic warfare battalion, there is certain information that I would need, or I'm prepared to share, that will influence the battle and CPE provides that environment to do it.
Hondo Geurts 19:06
Yeah, I mean, right now, just for those who aren't familiar, to get your document and go get somebody to sign off on it to release it, you have to get 50,000 stamps of approval, and then send it off. And if you're out in the field, and an EW squadron or battalion, that threat may have come and gone 10 times in the normal kind of analog way of taking this on. And so, it's really exciting to see the progress you're making here.
Lauren Bedula 19:34
One final question just in terms of time saving, talk about how the process used to be with paper and buildings and physical locations. What's the difference we can make in terms of time is this truly real time and what did it used to be to make a decision?
LTC Tuni Masi 19:50
Yeah, so a couple of examples, obviously, real world issues which have gone on previously to October. The requirement to establish information sharing in that particular instance, can take months to establish a network that will allow us to share information with partners, and vice versa. CEP has the ability to establish that particular information share in bilateral agreements almost between two countries, you can do that in minutes. So that's the speed with which we could establish a network as we, as we call it, that link all that information sharing between two partners. Similarly, in the sharing of information, the whole the real convoluted process, I think the probably the best one would be a targeting process where you're looking to exchange information between different individuals that may sit in different headquarters may be actually part of maybe different nationalities as well. And that targeting process, which has been tested previously by CENTCOM could take can take up to a day sometimes in in an exercise environment where you're using multinational partners using CEP, if all of the partners are on CEP, we can again, bring that down to minutes, because we're all in that same environment. So yeah, there is real operational benefits.
Lauren Bedula 21:19
Yea that's real impact. And it's fun when it's measurable to so you can see the difference. I think so often we hear about the challenges or opportunities for modernization. And I think it's especially exciting to hear about it coming to life in a program like CPE actually making a difference in that way. So, Lieutenant Colonel Massey, I think you're our first British guests. So excited about that, as well. Thank you for highlighting the importance of international sharing and partnerships and taking time out of your busy scheduled to speak with us today.
LTC Tuni Masi 21:49
Oh, thank you very much for your time.
Lauren Bedula 21:51
Thank you for listening, we really hope you enjoyed this unique series. I think a theme throughout was this idea of cooperating, not compete. And it's exciting because it's relevant across the ecosystem. And something else that has been a takeaway from me is we often hear the need for more cross pollination, cross communication and the importance of defining problems. So that say, the high-tech community knows how to incorporate into their roadmap. So, this was a great opportunity to hear from those that are solving them problems in theater.
Hondo Geurts 22:24
Yeah, I agree with Lauren, I think it's, it's always amazing that the level to which CENTCOM has been thinking about this, not only technically, but culturally, and how they've used the fact of their urgent combat activities as an accelerant, while still keeping the experimentation there. And, and if you're out there in the audience, and interested in this, I encourage you to learn about their problems more, get engaged with them. And if you believe you've got a capability that can come to bear on this problem, bring it forward here. This command is really, I think, moving beyond admiring the problem and really trying to take on this thing and become really digitally transformed as a way to help the department move here as a whole.
Lauren Bedula 23:14
Yeah, we really appreciate our dedicated listeners so we can highlight problems like this and opportunities like this. So, thanks again, and as always for joining us. Thank you.