Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques

To connect with others, you have to get out of your own head.

Whether presenting to millions on live television or talking to just one person, Dan Harris knows that the quality of every interaction depends on the presence you bring to it.
Harris is a former national news anchor for ABC News and is now the host of the 10% Happier podcast and author of 10% Happier and Meditation for Fidgety Skeptics. As he knows from experience, there’s power in “Waking up to something fundamental, that the mind is out of control, and you don't want to be owned by it.” How do we break the pattern of being controlled by our thoughts? Mindfulness and self-awareness, he says, put “distance” between us and our “thoughts and urges and emotions,” enabling us to connect with ourselves and others with greater consciousness and clarity.
In this episode of Think Fast, Talk Smart, Harris and host Matt Abrahams discuss how mindfulness can transform our communication, sharing strategies for deeper listening, responding versus reacting, and reflecting what others say back to them. “Relationships are the most important aspect of your happiness,” Harris says. The quality of those connections goes up when “you’re “less stuck in your own head.”

Episode Reference Links:

Connect:

Chapters:

  • (00:00) - Introduction
  • (01:51) - On-Air Panic Attack
  • (02:59) - Managing Communication Anxiety
  • (04:01) - Nervousness Before Live Audiences
  • (05:48) - Meditation Misconceptions
  • (09:36) - Responding vs. Reacting
  • (12:07) - Mindfulness & Productivity
  • (15:11) - Lessons from Interviewing
  • (17:19) - The Final Three Question
  • (25:14) - Conclusion

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Creators and Guests

Host
Matt Abrahams
Lecturer Stanford University Graduate School of Business | Think Fast Talk Smart podcast host
Guest
Dan Harris
Journalist | Author | Former News Anchor

What is Think Fast Talk Smart: Communication Techniques?

One of the most essential ingredients to success in business and life is effective communication.
Join Matt Abrahams, best-selling author and Strategic Communication lecturer at Stanford Graduate School of Business, as he interviews experts to provide actionable insights that help you communicate with clarity, confidence, and impact. From handling impromptu questions to crafting compelling messages, Matt explores practical strategies for real-world communication challenges.

Whether you’re navigating a high-stakes presentation, perfecting your email tone, or speaking off the cuff, Think Fast, Talk Smart equips you with the tools, techniques, and best practices to express yourself effectively in any situation. Enhance your communication skills to elevate your career and build stronger professional relationships.

Tune in every Tuesday for new episodes. Subscribe now to unlock your potential as a thoughtful, impactful communicator. Learn more and sign up for our eNewsletter at fastersmarter.io.

Matt Abrahams: Communication
is all about connection.

But first, we have to give
ourselves time and space to connect.

My name is Matt Abrahams and I
teach strategic communication at

Stanford Graduate School of Business.

Welcome to Think Fast
Talk Smart, the podcast.

Today, I'm really excited
to speak with Dan Harris.

Dan is a former national news anchor
for ABC News in the United States.

He's the podcast host of 10% Happier
and author of two books, 10% Happier

and Meditation for Fidgety Skeptics.

Welcome, Dan.

I look forward to our conversation.

Dan Harris: Me too.

Thanks for having me.

Matt Abrahams: Yeah.

Shall we get started?

Dan Harris: Yeah.

Matt Abrahams: Alright.

You are very open about an
on-air panic attack that you had.

Can you tell us about the experience
and how it changed you and your

approach to life in general?

Dan Harris: Yeah, this happened back in
2004, so twenty-one years ago, on Good

Morning America, where I was anchoring
the news and found myself unable to

breathe in the middle of my shtick.

Actually, if you Google it, just Google
panic attack on television it's the

first result, um, which is great, uh.

Matt Abrahams: You can be
reminded of it whenever you want.

Dan Harris: Exactly.

Just the type of thing
I want to go viral for.

Yeah.

It was horrible.

And afterwards I learned that the cause
of it was my recreational drug use,

which had come about as a result of
my, having spent a lot of time in war

zones as a reporter after nine eleven.

And so the whole thing was just a
cascade of mindlessness, but the good

news is that it landed me in therapy and
then ultimately led me to meditation.

And then I wrote a book about meditation
that came out about eleven years ago.

And that, you know, both the practice
and writing a book about it, completely

changed the trajectory of my life.

And it's, in that sense,
it's been a blessing.

Matt Abrahams: Well, first, I thank
you for sharing this story and

it's hard to share publicly when
bad things happen, but thank you.

I first got to know about you through your
book and uh, I'm part of this longstanding

book club and we read your book and it
actually fundamentally changed some of the

things that a lot of us do, so thank you.

Many of our listeners are working
to feel more confident and

comfortable in their communication.

As somebody who communicated in front of
hundreds of thousands, millions of people,

what specific tactics and practices can
you suggest to help them manage their

anxiety around that type of communication?

Dan Harris: One of the goals of successful
interpersonal communication is to keep the

amygdala, the stress center of the brain,
offline, and the prefrontal cortex, the

locus of reason and rationality, online.

And so how are you gonna frame this
in a way that, you know, works with

the brain of your interlocutor?

Uh, and if you do that planning in
advance and think through, say, what's my

positive intention in this conversation,
it really can reduce your blood pressure

going into a high stakes conversation.

Matt Abrahams: So that
attention and intention can

really make a big difference.

So framing it as a way that you can be
focused on the good and the value rather

than the triggering of all the anxiety.

I'm curious though, when you were
doing broadcasting, did you get nervous

at all or were you just imagining
talking to a camera and not all the

people that were behind the camera?

Dan Harris: Oh, I got nervous every time.

I still get nervous every
time I have to go on TV.

I mean, what the panic attack
on television revealed is that

I have panic disorder, so,
and I still struggle with it.

It's very powerful physiological,
psychological phenomenon.

And yet there's something really
surreal about talking to a camera

and knowing there are millions
of people on the other side of it

live, um, but you can't see them.

And that in some ways, to me, is even
more terrifying than getting up in

front of thousands of people live.

Matt Abrahams: And in some ways we all do
this in our own mini version of it when we

are on Zooms, Teams, Meets, and WebExes,
although I guess we get to see them.

I'm curious, how would you calm some of
that if it happened every single time?

Dan Harris: The number one was
planning and practicing and rehearsing.

That I, if I knew I had some lines
to deliver, I would really practice

them and rehearse them in advance.

And that's another technique anybody
can use, whether you're doing public

speaking or, uh, going into a potentially
tough conversation with your boss, is

to really rehearse, not only to think
carefully about what it is you wanna say,

but to rehearse how you're gonna say it.

Hopefully not in a way that you come
across as programmed or robotic, but in

a way that you've got the content in your
bones, such that you have some measure of

confidence going into the conversation.

Matt Abrahams: Excellent.

Yes.

So that practice, that rehearsal
helps you feel just more comfortable.

So, I one hundred percent believe
in the value of mindfulness and

meditation, but I struggle to quiet
my mind and just be still, uh, I find

myself gravitating towards types of
meditation where movement is involved.

So yoga and, and for many, many
years I've been doing Qigong.

I am curious, what advice and guidance
do you have for people like me who

understand the value of meditation,
it's just hard to quiet the mind?

Dan Harris: Well, two things to say.

First, I think you should do what
works, and it sounds to me that

you've found things that work for you.

I'm not a fundamentalist in any
way sort of sometimes say that I'm,

uh, dogmatically non-dogmatic, so
you should do what works for you.

The second thing is just to do a
little myth busting on the clearing

the mind or stealing the mind.

That is not the goal of
mindfulness meditation.

It's really a, a pernicious
misconception about the practice.

Probably the most damaging
misconception about the practice.

The goal is not to sit and get all
of your thoughts to evaporate or

to feel calm or anything like that.

The goal is, in fact, not
to feel any kind of way.

It's to feel whatever you are feeling,
clearly, so that your feelings

in general don't own you as much.

So just to get super granular, if you
sit in meditation and try to focus on

your breath, for example, and then notice
that you're getting carried away, and

then you wake up from distraction and
start again, and then there's another

distraction a nanosecond later, and
then you wake up from that and you

start again, that is correct practice.

The thing that's happening that
you are telling yourself is a

failure is actually success.

The whole goal is just to try
to focus on one thing at a time,

get distracted, start again.

And in that moment of getting distracted
and starting again, you are seeing

something really important and powerful,
which is that you have a mind and you

are thinking, and that these thoughts are
wild and outta control and often negative

and repetitive, and you don't have to
take them so seriously or personally,

you don't have to act out every neurotic
impulse as if it was in the words of

my meditation teacher, a tiny dictator.

So, just to sum up, one,
do what works for you.

Two, don't be fooled into thinking that
meditation requires you to forcibly

clear your mind, which is impossible
unless you're enlightened or dead.

The thing that you're telling yourself
is a sign of failure in your meditation

is in fact a sign of success.

Matt Abrahams: I really appreciate
that because that takes some of

the pressure off and I am drawn
to the language you use there.

You said you wake up to.

So it's an awareness that you're building.

So when your mind wanders, you then sort
of snap back to that moment of, oh, my

mind was wandering, and instead of what
I do, which is punish myself, what you're

saying is, okay, now I'm focused again.

There's an interesting learning there.

And that to me is, is helpful.

Dan Harris: That is the practice.

Matt Abrahams: That is the practice.

Dan Harris: That is the practice.

It's not a, a hindrance or something
gone wrong or like, uh, I'm

gonna tell you how to deal with
this problem in your meditation.

No, that is the practice.

And the waking up is the point because you
are waking up to something fundamental,

that you have all these wild thoughts.

The mind is out of control,
it's ridiculous, and you

don't wanna be owned by it.

And this waking up, starting
again, waking up, starting

again, does at least two things.

One is, it gives you mindfulness,
which is the self-awareness to not

be yanked around by every random
thought that pulses through your mind.

And two, that practice of waking up,
starting again, waking up, starting

again, it's like a bicep curl for
your brain in that it changes the part

of the brain associated with focus.

So in an age where our attention spans
are under attack, you are rewiring that.

Matt Abrahams: I really like that idea.

So the benefit is not just the distance
that you get from your thoughts.

Uh, there's a very useful anxiety
management technique that I often

teach my students, which is just to
say to yourself, this is me feeling

nervous and giving yourself that little
distance, and then you can do things.

But in so doing, you're also
strengthening the, the ability to focus.

You've discussed the concept of responding
versus reacting in the work that you do.

I've learned about this distinction
in the martial arts training

that I've done over the years.

Can you elaborate on the difference
between responding and reacting in

terms of how you see it, and then talk
about what this can mean for how we

interact with others or life in general?

Dan Harris: Yeah, without mindfulness,
without any self-awareness, without

any distance from your thoughts and
urges and emotions, you're, you're

like a puppet controlled by the
malevolent, puppeteer of your ego.

Anything that happens in your mind,
you get, anger arises and then you're

fully engulfed by, you're in it
and you have no distance from it.

And then you say and do a bunch of
stuff that you later regret, and

then you direct the anger inwardly.

I mean, we can live a
whole lifetime in anger.

That's on the extreme edge,
but sadly not uncommon.

Many of us, you know, we get angry
and then we spend hours in it.

But, you know, emotions will
come and go of their own accord.

So anger arises.

It's not a monolith, it's a set
of physiological and psychological

conditions like a temporary coming
together, meteorologically in your mind

and body, and you can get interested
in it from a mindful perspective.

Oh yeah, my chest is buzzing,
my ears are turning red.

I'm having a starburst of self-righteous
thoughts, or whatever it is.

And you can let that come and
go, and instead of acting it out

reflexively, you can respond wisely
on the other side, and that's a

superpower available to all of us.

It's a birthright.

We have this ability to do this,
but in the Western context,

we're rarely taught how to do it.

And so you can imagine how this
would root down to the benefit of

your interpersonal relationships.

And again, you're not gonna be
perfect at this, or at least I don't

know anybody who's perfect at this.

And in my case, I've gotten better, but I
still, you know, if I haven't slept enough

the night before, I can be more reactive.

But now, you know, if I'm in a
conversation and, and I feel the

urge to say something that's gonna
ruin the next forty-eight hours

of my marriage, more often than
not, I can watch it come and go.

Matt Abrahams: Right, and that
training helps you do that.

You articulated well the experience
I have with these two concepts where

reacting literally means to act again.

So you're carrying it with you,
you're acting it out in your

mind again, and responding is
dealing with it in the moment.

On your podcast, I've heard
you discuss the intersection of

mindfulness and productivity.

Do you have any hacks or best
practices you employ to increase

your productivity that leverages
the mindfulness that you train?

Dan Harris: Yeah, so this
is a counterintuitive hack.

I was talking once to my meditation
teacher, who's this incredible guy,

Joseph Goldstein, about to turn
eighty-one, and I've worked with him

for, I don't know, fifteen years,
sixteen years, and I was telling him

how I kind of hurdle through my day.

There's a kind of forward momentum,
a toppling forward, checking things

off my to-do list, and often while
I'm doing creative work, I can feel

kind of a swarm of bees in my chest.

I'm nervous and, not all the time, but
that, that conditioning runs deep in me,

and there's like this inner clench that,
that has to happen to get anything done.

And Joseph, who likes to make
fun of me, said, the good stuff

doesn't come from the clench.

That's just you being stupid, which,
you know, he's absolutely right.

The good ideas, the thoughtful responses,
the solid, careful work doesn't come from

rushing, doesn't come from clamping down
and bulldozing through your problems.

I still do this, but I've learned, with
mindfulness, to notice, oh, yeah, yeah.

I'm clenching internally.

I'm rushing through this and I try to use
that as a feedback, a kind of mindfulness

bell to wake up so that, you know what,
actually the counterintuitive productivity

move right now might be to lie down
on the ground for a couple of minutes.

It might be to go outside and put my
feet on the grass, or whatever it is.

And again, this is counterintuitive
because we believe we need to, and

I have this in me in a deep way,
that we need to squeeze every moment

of productivity out of the day.

But that actually is
counterproductive in the long run.

Matt Abrahams: Two things I heard you say
there that I think are really important,

for me personally, and hopefully the
others listening in, is, is we have

to pay attention to what's going on
in our body and use it as a signal.

It is very easy for me to bulldoze
my way through those feelings.

I'm tired, so I'm just gonna keep
chugging, and listening to those feelings.

And then the second is to be open to
doing something that might not feel

like the right thing to do, that opens
up the opportunity for creativity,

for inspiration, for connection.

And a lot of us, myself
included, get locked into this

is what success looks like.

This meeting needs to happen
in this way at this time, and

maybe you cancel the meeting or
you take it outside or whatever.

So listening to ourselves and then
being open I think are really important.

Dan Harris: Yes.

That was good reflective listening.

Yeah, you're absolutely right.

And we are in a, again, this
is another thing that we're not

often taught in our culture, kind
of just listening to the body.

Matt Abrahams: And all of that comes
from taking that beat and reflecting,

and that's where mindfulness comes in.

I'd like to switch gears away from
mindfulness and meditation and dive into

your expertise, uh, as somebody who is a
reporter, as an interviewer, et cetera.

Uh, you've certainly
interviewed lots of people.

Sometimes in very harrowing circumstances,
can you share some insights into what

makes for a good interview and any
recommendations for what makes for good

questions and answers in an interview?

Dan Harris: I actually personally
feel that I've gotten to be

a much better interviewer in
recent years as a podcast host.

And one of the things that I've found
that has boosted my ability to be a good

interviewer is reflective listening.

Which you were demonstrating
earlier, which is just listening

very carefully to what's being
said and then giving the summary in

your own words, often very briefly.

And I found training that skill has
forced me to listen much more closely.

It's a service to the audience
because I am summing up and

often clarifying the answers.

'Cause many of the people I interview
are deep dharma practitioners, and often

they're using terms that the audience
may not know, so I'll clarify that,

and then make sure that I understand
the gist of what they're trying to say.

And if I've got it wrong,
they'll correct me, and then

I will reflect the correction.

And so this has really, I use this
interpersonally too, this technique

has revolutionized my interviewing
skills and my interpersonal skills.

And I would say, just to go back to the
beginning of this interview, we talked

about what do you do if you're nervous?

Actually, if you're nervous for a
big conversation, just going in with

a tattoo on your arm to reflect,
just reflect, reflect, reflect.

It will give you the time to
let your nervous system settle.

It will really tenderize your
interlocutor because people love

to know that they've been heard.

And then once that other person
has, they feel like they've gotten

it all out, you've reflected it.

You might be relaxed and
in the flow at this point.

Then you can say what you need to say.

Matt Abrahams: I really like the
idea that listening deeply is a tool

to relax so you can speak better,
and that's really, really important.

And certainly the mindfulness that
you practice and teach is what's

required to listen in a reflective way.

I will often coach people who ask me,
how can I become a better listener?

I will say, listen to paraphrase,
because when we listen to paraphrase,

we listen for the bottom line in
a way that's deeper, and as you

said, it allows for more connection,
which invites more information.

So, great, great advice for any
type of interview, be it just

hanging out with a friend or
meeting somebody for the first time.

So before we end, I'd like to ask
three questions of all my guests.

One I create just for you, and
then two, I've asked everybody

who's ever been on the show.

Are you up for that?

Dan Harris: Sure.

Matt Abrahams: So one of your
superpowers in your communication is

your use of analogies and language.

I was keeping track of some
of the things you said.

You talked about puppeteers, biceps for
the brain, swarm of bees in our belly.

Are you consciously thinking about using
tools like that to help people understand?

Because you do a very good job on it,
not just here in our interview, but

in your writing and in the things that
I've listened to you speaking on, how

conscious of those things are you?

Dan Harris: Well, thank
you for saying that.

I appreciate it.

Very conscious, you know, with that,
I, I am not a fully trained meditation

teacher or a Buddhist master, or
a qualified scientific researcher

into areas of human flourishing.

I don't have any real expertise.

The only area where I have some
expertise is popularizing these

incredibly useful ideas for broad
audiences and communicating it to them

in a way that, first of all, engages
them with some humor and usually

an embarrassing story on my side.

And then a very clear value proposition
for them in their own lives.

And then modeling the benefits
of that, uh, for them.

And so, yeah, I'm obsessed with this
idea of like, how can I come up with

ways to engage people in these ideas
that, I think, can massively improve

an individual human life, and frankly,
I think could be very valuable for,

you know, the species writ large.

Matt Abrahams: It really does my heart
well, that you spend time thinking about

this, and I think everybody listening,
if you listen to what Dan has done and

how he does it, the power of analogies
to stick in someone's mind and to help

you understand something that might
not quite be as accessible if it were

explained in a technical way, but
using analogy, using descriptive words,

makes it more approachable and you
do a great job of role modeling that.

Dan Harris: Thanks.

You know, people in every industry learn
a kind of lingo that is off-putting

to outsiders, even though they don't
know that that's what's happening.

So that happens in
meditation or dharma circles.

It happens in scientific
psychological research.

It happens in the news.

We have our own weird way of
talking as if like we're kind of

robots or something like that.

And if you can shatter that and
start talking in a way that actually

reaches people, it's pretty valuable.

Matt Abrahams: Absolutely.

The power of translation
and accessibility is huge.

Let me ask the second question.

Who is a communicator
that you admire and why?

Dan Harris: The name that just
comes to mind is Barack Obama.

Not only for his oratorical skills, but
also often through his use of humor.

Another, perhaps the most powerful
moment of communication I've ever

seen from him is when he sang, poorly,
at a black church where a gunman had

come in and killed a bunch of people.

He sang Amazing Grace while
speaking to the church.

I think it was made even more powerful
by the fact that he doesn't sing well.

So it took a lot of gumption to do
that, and it was very moving and,

yeah, so I think as a one to many
communicator, he is in his own league.

Matt Abrahams: Yeah.

He has often mentioned for many
characteristics, nobody has brought up the

gumption and willingness to do something
from the heart that might be embarrassing.

I appreciate you adding that
richness to his description.

My final question for you, Dan, what
are the first three ingredients that go

into a successful communication recipe?

Dan Harris: Clarity of message.

Warmth for yourself and the
other person, and listening.

Matt Abrahams: Clarity,
warmth, and listening.

We've talked about, uh, all of
these to some extent, but the one

thing I'd like to just dive a little
deeper in, warmth for self and other.

We've talked about for other,
talk about warmth for self.

Dan Harris: If you're going to try to
boost your warmth quotient, your ability

to love, to connect, to be compassionate,
you can't leave yourself out.

Love or warmth or whatever you want to
call it, is an omnidirectional force.

And I'm not saying that you need to love
yourself before you can love other people.

I think that we all know many people
who are really generous and kind

and yet quite cruel to themselves,
but it, it's harder to do if you're

constantly kicking your own ass.

And it's easier to do if you can
have a balmier inner climate because

you're less defensive, you're more
available, you're less stuck in your

own head, and that improves the quality
of your relationships, which will

in turn improve your inner weather.

Because your relationships are
the most important aspect of your

happiness, and then your relationships
will improve, and then your inner

weather will get even better.

And that is what I call
the cheesy upward spiral.

And that's what you wanna be on, as
opposed to the, the opposite, which

a friend of mine calls the toilet
vortex, where you're just, you know,

mean to yourself and then you take
it out on other people, and then

you're mean to yourself even more.

And down you go.

Matt Abrahams: The connection we have
with people starts with ourselves and

it's bidirectional and the direction
you're talking about is the upward spiral.

Dan, thank you.

This was very enlightening.

We covered a broad range of topics, but
all fundamentally come down to this notion

of being present, making sure you're
responding and taking time for yourself

so you can be available for others.

Really appreciate it.

Thank you so much.

Dan Harris: Thanks for having me.

Matt Abrahams: Thank you for
joining us for another episode of

Think Fast Talk Smart, the podcast.

To learn more about happiness
and wellbeing, please listen to

our miniseries on these topics
in episodes 179 through 182.

This episode was produced by
Katherine Reed, Ryan Campos,

Aech Ashe, and me, Matt Abrahams.

Our music is from Floyd Wonder.

With thanks to Podium Podcast Company.

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