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Join feminist coaches Taina Brown and Becky Mollenkamp for casual (and often deep) conversations about business, current events, politics, pop culture, and more. We’re not perfect activists or allies! These are our real-time, messy feminist perspectives on the world around us.
This podcast is for you if you find yourself asking questions like:
• Why is feminism important today?
• What is intersectional feminism?
• Can capitalism be ethical?
• What does liberation mean?
• Equity vs. equality — what's the difference and why does it matter?
• What does a Trump victory mean for my life?
• What is mutual aid?
• How do we engage in collective action?
• Can I find safety in community?
• What's a feminist approach to ... ?
• What's the feminist perspective on ...?
Taina Brown she/hers (00:01.41)
Hello.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (00:04.063)
No!
Taina Brown she/hers (00:08.398)
Yeah, so welcome, Kayla, Dr. Kayla Singleton. Thanks for being on the show today. I know this is the first time you and Becky are meeting. So I will just briefly say that I know you because we went to the same school. We went to Agnes in Georgia. It's a private liberal arts, traditionally women's college, but inclusive of non-binary and gender expansive people.
And so we've kind of been vaguely, broadly connected for a while. And then when I started to do some research into the neuroscience of manifestation, I reached out to you to talk about that, because you studied neuroscience. So on that note, I will let you introduce yourself and what you do and anything else you want to share with us.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (01:06.695)
Yeah, awesome. It's nice to meet you, Becky. It's always good to see you, Tiana. I am a neuroscientist by training. So I got my, I did my undergrad at Agnes where I got a bachelor's in science in neuro. And then I went to grad school at Georgetown where I got my PhD in neuroscience. After that, I like came back to Atlanta and I was a fellow for a little bit. And my like background in neuroscience is actually in like
Taina Brown she/hers (01:11.532)
you
Kaela Singleton, PhD (01:35.017)
pediatric neurodegeneration and neurodevelopmental disorders. But the reason I got interested in neuroscience from a young age was because I was just interested in like, what motivates people to do things? Like why are people the way that they are? And how can we study that? Even though my work really focuses on like molecules and cells, I'm still really interested on like.
what galvanizes people to make certain decisions and how we can use science to inform policy and society, but not in a gross, evil genius way. we know how to motivate people to be in community. What does that look like? And so currently I am the Director of Grants Management at the Cure Alzheimer's Fund. And so I fund a lot of really cool science and that's really neat. But yeah, I...
I consider myself a radical thinker and a person who is trying, I would say being a scientist isn't a part of my core identity anymore. I just like bringing that to the table in terms of conversations and learning new things.
Taina Brown she/hers (02:41.694)
Yeah. And you put in your intake form that you staged at a butcher shop. What does that mean exactly?
Kaela Singleton, PhD (02:48.593)
yeah. So a stage is like chefs do it. Like when they're like getting new experiences at different restaurants, it's kind of like an internship. And for a while when I was in D.C., I was there for like six years. And so we would go to Union Market Food Hall and there was like a butcher shop there and a fishmonger. And I would always go and joke with them that I was going to like come learn how to do butchery.
And the guys there always laughed at me and they were like, no, you should come by. Like tomorrow, 5 a.m. we'll be here. And so one day I was really just down in the dumps about my thesis research and I was like, you know what? I'm gonna go. And so I just went and they taught me how to do it. yeah. It's, no, I was gonna say it's obvious. Like I don't think anyone would conceive it as easy, but it's like so much harder than it looks, because it's so heavy.
Taina Brown she/hers (03:31.389)
Wow.
Becky Mollenkamp (03:31.71)
You just mentioned you're the... sorry, go ahead.
Becky Mollenkamp (03:42.15)
It's like a physical job. My husband has been very interested for a long time in doing butchery and he's an educator, but he's never actually done it. And I don't know what it is. He finds it strangely appealing, I guess, the physical and like also it being a kind of job where you're just focused. It's, I think it's kind of meditative in a way, right? Cause you're just focused on the task at hand and nothing beyond that really.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (03:43.966)
Yeah
Kaela Singleton, PhD (04:00.285)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (04:04.467)
Yeah. And you're like using your hands. I feel like I, since I have stopped doing like bench science, I'm more, I'm really interested in like using my hands and making things.
Becky Mollenkamp (04:15.838)
I know I saw that you do a bunch of classes. I stalked you on your website before we talked. So I have an unfair advantage. You don't know me, but I know a little about you now. And I saw you do art. So I'd love to talk about that a little bit. But I'm curious because you mentioned your thesis. What did you do? Because I think sometimes I can open a little window into what you find interesting in your field. So what did you do your thesis on? And or dissertation.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (04:20.022)
yeah. hi.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (04:37.479)
So my thesis work was, so my thesis slash dissertation work was on how molecules change across species, specifically like in the process of neural development. So I looked at a specific family of transcription factors and how from like frog to mouse to human, they have a conservation of function, but how they do that function is very different, like the proteins that they used to get it done. And so it involved learning,
Taina Brown she/hers (04:50.279)
you
Kaela Singleton, PhD (05:07.539)
biology and a lot of different model organisms and then sort of like converging together to be like what's the same and what's different kind of going back again to that like What motivates certain things to happen like what motivates people to do certain things or certain actions? So I'm really interested in like How that works in isolation, but also all together I'm like what we can learn from one another and really what I discovered in that work is that like it's really context dependent. It's both
Taina Brown she/hers (05:12.644)
you
Taina Brown she/hers (05:25.059)
you
Kaela Singleton, PhD (05:32.901)
internal factors like things that are programmed beyond your control and external factors that motivate development and like both of those things are equally as important.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:37.67)
Go.
Taina Brown she/hers (05:42.982)
Interesting, interesting. One thing I wanted to ask is when we talked, like you and I had like a separate conversation because I was just like, can I just like pick your brain? Like every single pun intended, right? When you're talking to a neuroscientist. But one thing you mentioned was that like this concept of dopamine hacking and how like you really can't dopamine hack your way out of
Kaela Singleton, PhD (06:00.585)
Yes.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (06:07.326)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (06:11.185)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:12.331)
certain things. So can you say a little bit about, well, not a little bit, but can you get into that and talk to us about what, from a neuroscience perspective, what is actually happening during a dopamine hack and why that's not a sustainable resolution for getting certain things done or whatnot? Just want to hear your perspective on that.
Becky Mollenkamp (06:39.388)
Yeah, can you also tell us what is What is dopamine hacking for those of us who aren't like as
Kaela Singleton, PhD (06:43.433)
Yeah. I think dopamine hacking, I don't know if Dr. Andy Huberman is who, he didn't like invent it, but he might've made it the most famous. He's another, yeah, he's another podcaster. Yeah, me too. But so dopamine hacking is, it's kind of like, I think it's in simplest terms, it's like something that gives your body a rush of dopamine. It's something that's like exciting, adrenaline fulfilling.
Taina Brown she/hers (06:43.685)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (06:53.598)
Oh boy. I know who he is, I have lots of thoughts about him, I don't know you do, but-
Kaela Singleton, PhD (07:12.265)
Something that's interesting, like, people are-
Becky Mollenkamp (07:14.182)
Is this why, is this the cold water plunging? that why? Cause I know he's a big advocate of that and all of the bros is that an ID like that's an example of dopamine hacking them. Got it.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (07:17.523)
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. Yes, exactly. There's also like people talk about like dopamine decor, which is just really like decor that makes you happy. That doesn't necessarily have anything to do with dopamine. I would say most of these things don't necessarily have anything to do with like dopamine. They're just like things that bring you enjoyment and excitement and happiness and contentment. And so I think this, we talked a little bit about the sort of like
goopification of self care, this idea that through dopamine hacking, through self care, you can just sort of rewire your brain to be a very happy place, like a place that doesn't perceive threat, but that's not really how the brain works. Its whole purpose is to protect you from things. And so while you can, through meditation and through observation, change the way that you...
perceive the world around you, you can't like hack yourself into happiness if only because most of the things that I think that contribute to people feeling unwell and unfulfilled in life are like systemic barriers and you can't dopamine hack your way out of poverty. Like you can be a more positive person, can think and move with more intention, like be less stressed and more grounded in what you're doing and that takes a level of like calm and like thinking.
But you don't have to like, cold plunder away to success. I don't really think that that's like how it works. Horrible. Absolutely. Absolutely horrible. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (08:50.878)
Well, that's great because I think cold pledging sounds absolutely horrible and I have no idea how it's supposed to make me happy. I'm curious, you mentioned happiness. You can't your way to happiness, which is, there we go. Here's a quote for the show, but I'm curious about happiness and I don't know if you have thoughts on this or not. So I'm just asking because I think this idea of happiness as a goal is really interesting. And I'm curious from like a brain standpoint, is happiness a sustainable state? I don't know.
Taina Brown she/hers (08:55.426)
Yeah, 100%.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (09:01.811)
I'm sorry.
Becky Mollenkamp (09:17.042)
that it is and I think that like maybe it's better to aim for contentedness or something. But here's what your thoughts are on that.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (09:21.449)
Yeah. Yeah, so I love this idea because it gets to like also a core issue with like the dopamine hacking of it all and like the like self care of it all, which is that like your brain's goal always is to be in homeostasis. It just wants to be regulated. It wants to like exist in a very chill way. So my dad in the way that I think a lot of black fathers are is really a fan of stoicism, like on accident. He like doesn't believe in really high highs or really low lows. He's like, if you just stay,
even keeled, like everything's fine. Yeah, he is, he's a Capricorn man. And so he does have a point though, like a big part of, a big part of how your brain works is just trying to get to equilibrium. It wants to perceive a threat, make a decision and then like go back to its baseline state. And so I agree wholeheartedly, like, I think it's taken a lot of unlearning to value contentment.
Taina Brown she/hers (09:51.882)
Yeah. Is he an Irv sign, by the way? That makes sense. I can relate.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (10:20.071)
more than I value happiness and to also try and figure out what like makes you content. Cause I don't think it's a thing that people teach you to strive for really in any regard, but it's I think on like a cellular level even like we're talking about like the balance of ions in order for cells to just like function normally. And so like the metaphor could extend to that too. So I agree with you.
Becky Mollenkamp (10:41.47)
Thank you. That makes me so happy because I talk about that with people. I feel like we've been so conditioned in the culture that we live in, that happiness is this thing we're supposed to be. It's supposed to be the goal. And I think it's because it really helps fuel capitalism, right? Because the things that bring us happiness, which is a temporary state, it's kind of a high, it's that dopamine, I guess, kick or whatever it is, where
Kaela Singleton, PhD (10:43.428)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (10:51.475)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (10:52.658)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (10:57.151)
Absolutely.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:05.116)
you're chasing that constantly. So you're having to get something new, something, you know, try something different, go on a trip, buy a thing to help you sort of get that high again. And then inevitably, like you said, your brain comes back to a place of this more even like calm. And a lot of us get uncomfortable in that space because we think that that isn't enough. We're supposed to be wanting this like excited, thrilled state. And I see it in relationships too, where it's like a relationship is supposed to always feel like that.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (11:11.858)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (11:25.481)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:27.006)
Hmm.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (11:30.196)
care.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:32.542)
exciting, lustful beginning and it's like, well, no, that's not sustainable either, right? That's not how we work. So I appreciate you sharing that. I'm curious for you. And I'm sorry, Tanya, don't we take over? I just very excited about this.
Taina Brown she/hers (11:42.78)
No, no, go for it. I'm enjoying just listening. I get to just absorb all this information.
Becky Mollenkamp (11:48.702)
I'm just curious for you what, cause you said it's taken you a while to kind of unlearn some of that and to figure out what it looks like for you to find that contentedness. What have you discovered for yourself? Cause I think for people who are still in that place of like having chasing the happiness thing, they may not even know what contentedness feels like, what gets them there. I'm curious if you could share your journey cause it might help others.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (12:03.646)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (12:07.059)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (12:10.611)
Yeah, definitely. feel like for me, contentedness also goes hand in hand, like learning, getting to contentedness goes hand in hand with ambition. I always tell people that I'm like a recovering girl boss, where I, of now be, instead of being really ambitious about like work and academics and success, now I'm really ambitious about things like rest, about art, about like laying in the sun and reading books. And a part of that was learning, like,
both defining happiness and success for myself, but also taking steps around to be like, if I'm working to build the life of my dreams, which I really have done, why does it feel hollow? Like, why doesn't it feel like this elated peak that we were talking about, like all of the time, and learning that like, actually the thing that I was really building towards, even as like a little kid, was just a place of safety and security. And once you get that, I think if you're so used to like fast-paced environments where like,
the highs of new love or whatever, it seems really boring. And I think that's also a part of like adulthood, where you're like, no, no, I mean, thanks to be a little bit boring. But I think for me, a lot of it was like self-reflection. A lot of it was also like, I went through like a series of like friendship breakups in my like late 20s, early 30s that were really transformative to me as a person because I was like, am I asking for people to show up and be in community with me in a way that's like,
not practical, like not possible? Or am I just like asking the wrong people? And I think it's like a mix of both. I firmly believe that like, you can be the author, the villain, and the main character of your story all at once, but you have to take accountability of that. And I think for me, a big part of taking that accountability was like, happiness is not, like being happy all the time is not a super sustainable emotion. On the other end of that, like I'm percent suffers from depression. So I'm like being depressed also.
is not a sustainable emotion. So I was like, have to find this sort of middle ground. And I think through hobbies like cooking, through things like art, through just like listening to podcasts and like learning perspectives, I was able to sort of bridge that gap. Does that answer your question? that? Okay.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:22.846)
for sure. And I know you just had me, Tainan, you have a question, but I have one more and I'm so sorry. I'm just so excited.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:23.97)
Yeah. Yeah, no, I was just, I was just going to say real quick, like I'd love that you brought up the whole boring thing because like, I feel like I'm an incredibly boring person and I'm totally okay with that. And when I meet new people or, you know, sometimes there's like those icebreakers where they're like, tell us about yourself, one exciting thing about yourself. I'm like, well, there's nothing that exciting about my life. It's quite boring. And
Kaela Singleton, PhD (14:27.017)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:33.022)
That's what I wanted to ask.
Taina Brown she/hers (14:51.201)
That is exactly what I'm like. I don't want the excitement anymore because I feel like the higher the high is like once you come down from that, like it's just like it's such a hard crash. Yeah. And so thank you for bringing that up anyway.
Becky Mollenkamp (14:55.944)
BONE YOU
Becky Mollenkamp (15:00.594)
the crash.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (15:02.515)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (15:03.774)
But when you tell people you're boring, because I do the same thing and people will come back with it's like, oh, I'm sure you're not or don't like they think that you're saying something negative. And I'm like, no, I'm like, that means life is pretty good. Right. There's nothing out of the whack. But the thing I want to know is because about the boring as well as a parent. And you mentioned that a lot of your work, at least in the beginning, and I think still now is with with juveniles. And so I'm curious because children today now I sound like an old person have such a different experience than I did.
Taina Brown she/hers (15:10.679)
Mm-hmm.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (15:11.304)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (15:23.891)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (15:33.47)
probably even both of you did, maybe you're a little younger, Kayla, so maybe not as much, but where they have never known life to be boring, right? Because they have constant stimulation with, they've got a device at every moment. There's something to entertain them. They don't know how to be bored. And I think, at least when I was a kid, and probably you too, like our parents made us be bored or we had to be bored. There was just nothing, like there wasn't a lot to do. And was like, you had to feel like you're out of that time.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (15:41.171)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (15:54.653)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (16:00.222)
And so I wonder with kids, with children now growing up in the state where they don't know boredom, they're uncomfortable with boredom, do you feel like that, you know, and also for adults, because it's affecting us all, but living in this digital age, does that change our relationship with contentedness and finding a place of peace with that? Do you think it makes it more difficult?
Kaela Singleton, PhD (16:18.066)
yeah.
I absolutely think it does. I think it does in a lot of different ways. I was just talking to my friend about this the other day, and he was like, I don't feel like I have a good imagination. And I was like, I would hate if that was true. I was like, I don't believe that that's true. I do think that we don't have to use our imagination much anymore. It's one of the issues with generative AI. It's also one of the issues with, like you mentioned, Becky, like,
constantly being on a tablet, constantly having information fed to you, and really not being able to process things. My Nana was very much like, you have to get out of the house and go play. Just go outside, come home when the street lights come on, be bored, read books. no one was around to constantly entertain me as a child at all. And I feel like that's kind of what...
media has done now, but I think we see the consequences of that in our media, that it's no longer like, instead of having shows that have a lot of depth, or even movies with depths, we just have like a lot of movies. It's like a quantity versus quality thing. And I think it affects the way that we communicate with one another and the expectations that we have of people. Like, I rewatch Sex and the City simultaneously with my sister, who is like 11 years younger than me. And our takeaway granted, she's 11 years younger than me.
So our takeaways from the show were very different, but I was like, at the time, I think everyone my age thought that they would move to New York City and have this sort of wild, adventurous kind of life. I think that that's unattainable in new, fun, economic ways now, but at the time it was just like, can I move to a city and be close to my core group of friends and try to be happy? There are very few filler episodes in Sex and the City, something's always happening.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:12.328)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (18:12.511)
Um, and I think that we see that kind of now even in media, like every day, if you were to talk to my sister every day, something exciting is happening to her. And I'm like, I just want to take a nap. And I think that that though, shapes her like broader picture of like what being an adult is. It's like this fast paced moving thing. Granted, she lives in New York city, so it is more fast paced where I live. Um, but I think that those things all kind of go hand in hand, like people's inability to sit in boredom, but I think also sit in discomfort, um, has led to a lot of like where we are.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:39.764)
Hmm.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (18:42.471)
in society now.
Taina Brown she/hers (18:44.401)
Yeah, yeah, that's interesting. You brought up like Sex and the City because it also makes me think of shows like How I Met Your Mother or Friends or Living Single, you know, where it's like the things that people from our generation grew up on was about like going on this grand adventure. Like life was like this grand adventure and anything that doesn't feel like an adventure, then it doesn't feel like your life is measuring up, like you're living your life. And so I don't know what
Kaela Singleton, PhD (19:10.13)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:13.811)
the kids these days are growing up on, or the kids just a few years younger than us are growing up on, because I'm really out of touch.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (19:18.269)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (19:20.09)
I do they're growing up on Mr. Beast and like they're growing up on like gaming. It's it is how quickly can I just like I will watch my son who's nine on a device and it's like this just like the constant need for new right and it does worry me because what is that and the and I now I'm taking over again. This is so fascinating to me guys. I love brain science stuff.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (19:23.624)
wild.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (19:34.302)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (19:35.986)
Hmm
Taina Brown she/hers (19:40.946)
It's okay.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (19:41.023)
No.
Becky Mollenkamp (19:44.402)
How is that changing our brains? what is it? Have you done anything or read anything about that, about what that's actually doing to the human brain and how it's developing this like constant stimulation?
Kaela Singleton, PhD (19:47.011)
yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (19:55.879)
So I haven't done any of that work. I would say there's like the attendance fan of it all. I know people have looked into that, the idea that we have shorter attendance fans, the idea that we as a society are moving to like, people can't.
people are confusing comprehension. Like people don't have the ability to comprehend things as much or like process things as deeply as they once were able to. People also, because of algorithms, and I think that this is personally fascinating, like the idea of your algorithm as an echo chamber. So like you're not used to confronting new ideas or being challenged and like how to handle conflict. Or even for a lot of people, how to handle like human interaction, like.
One of the big things just for me as a person, right, I work from home, I live in like, Mableton, Georgia, which is like middle of nowhere, not really, but like there's not a lot here. But it's very easy for me to accidentally forget that like I haven't spoken to another person for a couple of days. And then I see the like stiffness in interactions when I do go hang out with people and I'm like, oh, I've got to do this more. It's so easy to remain insular. And I think the brain as like,
an organ in an ecosystem, thrives off of, even though it's protecting you from harm, it thrives off of new experiences. It's how it learns, it's how it teaches you things. It's also how you form memories and core parts of your personality. So if you've never had to face conflict, if you've never disagreed with someone in person, a fight with someone online is different than having an interaction in person. And I do think we see that in a sort of age divide.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:34.106)
Go.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (21:34.815)
kind of way where like my sister has a fast mouth online, but in person, it's me who wins the fights. Do you know what I mean? Like there's something also to the speed and the width of which you process information that I think is missing now. So there are like, I would say like no one's looking at like cellular changes, but they're looking a lot at like the social and behavioral neuroscience of it. It has been really fascinating. And it's also interesting because it's not something you can necessarily study in animal models. So it's like.
Taina Brown she/hers (21:50.703)
you
Taina Brown she/hers (21:57.583)
Hmm.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (22:03.377)
As people age, these sort of longitudinal studies will become more interesting and important to see the difference over time.
Taina Brown she/hers (22:07.801)
Hmm. Yeah. Well, so I know I'm going to pivot a little bit here because I know you also founded an organization for other scientists like Black and people of color scientists. Can you tell us a little bit about that org and what prompted you to start that? Why did you think that was an important thing to do?
Kaela Singleton, PhD (22:34.847)
Yeah, so I'm one of the co-founders of Black and Neuro, which is a nonprofit. I was the former president. My term just recently ended. And we started in 2020 after the murder of George Floyd and Breonna Taylor and Rahad Aubrey, specifically with the Black murder incident that happened in Central Park. That's name of that park. And so it was after that incident.
can't remember that man's name. That's gonna bother me. Cooper was his last. Amy Cooper was the woman, sorry. There was a woman who essentially called the police on a black man who was watching, yeah, he was burning. And so after that incident happened, she called the police on him and he's like, Cooper, Cooper. Thank you so much. So they...
Taina Brown she/hers (23:14.961)
the guy who was birding. Yeah, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (23:21.968)
His name was also Cooper. So you were right. It was Christian Cooper and Amy Cooper. It was weird that they had the same last name. Yeah. Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (23:30.749)
had this interaction in the park where he asked her to leash her dog. She wouldn't, she called the police and said that he was attacking her and recorded it. And then after that, Black Birder's Week started, which was essentially like a social media movement where they encouraged black birder's to be like, show up on the internet and like go birding. And so there was Black Birder's Week, there was Black in the Astro. And so black people in like different sects of science really came through to like show representation and start to build community with one another. And so Black and Neuro started.
after those weeks. And it really started with a tweet from our founding president, Angelene Dukes, where she was like, are we going to do Black and Neuro Week? Does anybody have time to do it? And so about 20 of us came together to have the first official Black and Neuro Week where we had programming, we had lectures on like, Neuro-racism, we had professional development workshops. And from there, we grew to now we have like over a thousand members. We're like an official nonprofit. have like over a thousand members and we do...
Taina Brown she/hers (24:27.595)
Well.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (24:28.031)
all kinds of programming for black people in neuroscience, both to build community, also like provide resources for them over time.
Taina Brown she/hers (24:36.021)
Wow, wow, what is newer racism?
Kaela Singleton, PhD (24:39.551)
So, no, racism is really, it's the ways in which science has been used to sort of like prop up racism and as a tool to like affirm racist ideology. see this most clearly with things like IQ. We see it also with like, when we talk about curing diseases, the idea that like we'll cure Alzheimer's and a Cishet white man before we will anyone else, almost with any other disease. But it's also the ways that
racism manifests, like changes in the brain. Dr. Bianca Jones Marlin does research on this idea that like trauma impacts you on a cellular level. And her research looks at how like trauma affects offerings specifically, but new theories have hypothesized that like.
We know that violence affects people as well. Like if you're perpetuating violence on someone that also is likely affecting your brain. And so how can we study that and what does that look like? And so neuro-racism is really like the bridge of all of those things. Like how is neuroscience being used to justify racism? How do we see that show up in society and social society levels? And then what are the sort of like trauma informed responses to that? And so normally that portion of like black and neuro week which is something we do every week.
or every like once a year as like a virtual conference, there's normally like a journal club and a recent paper that we sort of unpack with the experts from that paper, but then also people in the community. And so sometimes the studies are more like, what are the like ramifications or differences that we see in black people in certain fields? Like how many like, what is the leaky pipeline of academia? Is it really like?
that black people aren't going into these fields or are they going and unwelcomed and like why do they leave and what makes them stay and how can we like increase that for people?
Taina Brown she/hers (26:35.057)
Wow. So there's some kind of correlation between engaging in racism or being a part of that system and the makeup of like how that affects your brain. Did I hear you right?
Kaela Singleton, PhD (26:50.163)
Yeah. Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (26:52.55)
Is that sort of the epigenetics that yeah, yeah, it's interesting because I don't know if you've read my grandmother's hands by Resmaa Menikam, but that it's so good. And the reason it was so powerful for me as a white person was that it was interesting reading about that piece of like the epigenetics of the violent history of this country affect all of us, right? Because I thought what you were just saying about how violent being a perpetrator of violence.
Taina Brown she/hers (26:52.934)
Okay.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (26:55.155)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (27:01.299)
Nope, but I've heard of it.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:20.326)
of extra brain. that immediately made me think of that book and that idea of this like legacy of of enslaving people and being on the other side of that right on the white side of that of the wrong side of that and how that also altered brains. Right. And it's interesting to think about the legacy of that of that of American history on everyone who has existed inside of it and that no one escapes that whether you know you're on either
Kaela Singleton, PhD (27:30.601)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (27:42.233)
He left, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (27:47.804)
whatever your lineage is, we've all been a part of that system and it affects all of our brains. So I just think that's really, I love that you mentioned that. It made me think of that book because it sort of talks a bit about that. Really interesting. Well, can I suggest a pivot? But I don't want it like if you want to keep going here, it's OK. But I also want to make sure because you started out, Taina, by saying you reconnected with Kayla about manifestation and the brain and that. And I think when you manifestation.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (27:56.062)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (28:00.499)
Yeah. yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:11.301)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (28:14.672)
who are really sciencey. think they often think like I could be wrong, but I have a feeling that the more sciencey people are like, pooh, pooh, that's not science. And the manifest people who would hear something like, pooh, pooh, the science people, they they're missing out. And I just think it's interesting when we when you meet people who are like, yeah, I'm I like I'm science. I think about things rationally. I look at what is I study, but also I'm open to the fact that there could be more than what we know, because that to me is what science should.
Taina Brown she/hers (28:24.592)
poo.
Becky Mollenkamp (28:42.258)
do is like acknowledge that there are things that we can't know because what we know now is not what scientists knew 100 years ago, a thousand years ago, whatever. So I would love to know more about that journey of like, what made you approach her, Taina? And then like, what was the reaction? Because were you hesitant at all of like, is she going to be like, gosh, manifestation?
Kaela Singleton, PhD (28:42.473)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (29:00.794)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:01.605)
I definitely was like, is she going to think I'm a crazy person? But I reached out because again, I knew that we were part of the same alumni network. And I love, you post a lot of like your cooking stuff and I'm just like, this is just, I love this. I love this vibe. But I started doing
Kaela Singleton, PhD (29:22.527)
That's true.
Taina Brown she/hers (29:28.586)
research into the neuroscience behind manifestation because I've always been the kind of person that's like manifestation poo poo like that's like some weird woo woo stuff for people who are out of touch with reality. Like you can't manifest your way out of systemic racism or poverty or you know like there are certain there are real obstacles that people are facing and to tell someone that you just manifest and you can get what you want that feels like gaslighting to me. And so I started
I think something came across on my Instagram maybe or on YouTube about Dr. Jim Doty, who was on the... Melanie... She shares the last name with... Fuck, what is his name? Damn it, I forgot. Anyway, Dr. Jim Doty, he's a neuroscientist out of Stanford and a neuro...
surgeon as well and he was talking about the science behind some of manifestation principles and I was like, well, this is interesting. I've never heard what seems like two radically opposite perspectives come together like this or Mel Robbins. Yes. Thank you. cause she has the same last name as Tony Robbins. And I'm always like, are they related? Is she his wife? Like what's going on there? But I don't think they're related, but
But yeah, like two seemingly contradictory perspectives come together in one person who is like straddling this equilibrium between both. And so I started doing research about neuroscience and how that affects the brain and how that affects your lived reality as an individual. then it got to the point where I was talking about it with other people and I was like, well, I don't want to be
talking about it in a way that's not absolute and in a way that's misleading to people. So then I was like, have to, for my own due diligence, I feel like I have to talk to someone about this. And then lo and behold, one of Kayla's beautiful dinners showed up on my Instagram feed. And so I was like, I wonder if she would be willing to talk to me about it. And she was, and she was. So I'm curious, Kayla, what did you think when I approached you?
Kaela Singleton, PhD (31:52.671)
I didn't like think I had any strong thoughts. I was just kind of like, that's neat. Yeah, like would love to learn more about or like talk more about that. I don't like
feel like my family has always been like woo adjacent. So, but I completely understand Becky's point about like the Venn diagram of people who think meditation is silly and people who are like hardcore scientists doesn't have as much overlap as you would think like, or actually maybe it's like a closer complete circle than most people would think. there, I, that being said, I think scientists use objectivity.
Taina Brown she/hers (32:27.041)
Mm-hmm.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (32:33.695)
in a bad way a lot of the times. And I think this is one of those ways because really what meditation gives you and what manifesting gives you is like a shift in perspective. And we know like through more psychology based work, like less heavy neuroscience, which is also in and of itself, like a fight that some people have. There are some researchers who are like neurosciences more cells and less like motivation, less personality, less like
Taina Brown she/hers (32:53.982)
you
Kaela Singleton, PhD (33:03.091)
there's a reason that we have behavioral and social neuroscience as sort of sub-sex of neuroscience, just because of what those people value. But to me, in our discussion, what I thought was really interesting was just that you were excited about it, that you were like, is there some sort of actual mechanism for this? Because I think what's happening a lot in today's society is people have more access to information than they ever have had before, and they don't always have the outlet or a resource to talk about those things.
so to me, it was like a cool way to like use information that like I had about the brain, but also like anecdotal stories and like research of other friends to like help answer a question or like clarify things for you. But I think to me, the power of manifestation in that intersection of neuroscience comes from like being in tune with your body and like understanding again, back to that like equilibrium. And I also think manifestation.
and things like meditation, emphasize to me that like back to the boredom thing, people don't have time to just like be, to just sort of like sit and observe. And I think that that's really like valuable and important.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:10.429)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:15.185)
Yeah, and I think that was the biggest thing that I've taken away so far from the stuff that I've read from Dr. Jim Doty in the conversation that I had with you is that people, usually when people think about manifestation or the way that I've seen people talk about manifestation, it's almost like if you grew up in super religious circles, it's like a name it and claim it kind of thing. And that's not the science behind it at all. The science behind it is about
Kaela Singleton, PhD (34:37.833)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (34:45.351)
how to figure out where to focus your attention. But in order to do that, you have to be able to be present, and you have to be able to be bored and be uncomfortable and sit still for a little while and know what your body is telling you and understand yourself enough to know which direction you want to go in. And so I thought that was a really...
expansive way to think about, you know, how to shift your lived reality by shifting your focus, like shifting where you put your attention. Because again, like dopamine hacking is not going to get you out of systemic poverty. Manifesting is not necessarily going to get you out of systemic poverty either. But like you said, like the shift in perspective, like that's where the power is. Like I think that's where as individuals we have agency and power over.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (35:23.379)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (35:36.351)
is going to be able to share their perspective.
Taina Brown she/hers (35:39.61)
our lived realities by being able to shift our perspective so we can then put our energy and attention into things that can help us overcome or help us navigate certain obstacles and whatnot. Sorry, didn't mean to get all coachy there.
Becky Mollenkamp (35:57.342)
Well, it feels like a change from reactive to proactive in a way of like, it's that shift of being in a state of constant reaction to everything. And in sort of instead shifting to like, what can I do here? What is possible? Where do I want to go? How do I shift my focus into something that feels less like defeated? And again, all of that inside of the context of very real systemic issues that are often outside of your control.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (35:57.887)
No.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (36:06.055)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (36:23.666)
I just had this conversation yesterday with a woman I met who does mindset work in a very traditional way that maybe some of us don't love, which is this idea that your thoughts are of your own making and you can control those thoughts so that changes your reality. there is a piece of that that I think is real, right? Because I can choose to like right now think, it sure be nice if it was sunny or I could talk about like, at least it's, you know, it feels nice that it's breezy today, right? But that's very different than
saying, well, I can choose to say, you know, well, I can let racism get me or I won't today when it's like that's something so far outside of your control. So I just think there's like it's always a fine line with all of this stuff, it seems like. I don't know if any of that sparks anything for you, Kayla, but I'd love to hear what I said.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (37:00.511)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (37:07.944)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (37:11.835)
Yeah, no, I think so. I think there's also something to like
One of the things that I think capitalism really takes from us is is like time, absolutely, but also the ability to like try new things and the like time and energy to, to be a part of something new. Like I find I'm very much a like whatever gets you through the day kind of person. That being said, I also.
I'm known in my family to be a judgy hater, but I think at my core, I'm a person who really values shifts in perspectives and transformations in that way. I think there's something to taking something you're interested in, like science and societal issues and seeing where they intersect and seeing how they can support one another and questioning what is our...
Like what are our roles in society and how can I like, what are the tools that I can use to help me like be a better functioning member of like this specific community of my specific family of like this friend group. And I feel like the intersection of self care and science has really taken off as like both like multi-million dollar, maybe even billion dollar industry at this point. But I also think it's interesting because a lot of those ideas, the ideas of,
manifestation of self-care, radical self-care, are rooted in like Black liberation and like Black revolutionaries in general. And so it's interesting to see the parts that capitalism forces us to pick and choose and the parts that people genuinely return back to because they work, right? The idea that if you take the time to sit and meditate, if you take time, 10 minutes for yourself at the start of the day to write down your intentions to be with yourself, to be present.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (39:07.047)
Studies show, like psychology, human-based studies show that those people are living happier, healthier lives. And I think that those, like that sort of cyclical nature and circular nature of it is always really interesting to me.
Taina Brown she/hers (39:22.495)
Yeah. So I, you co-founded the black and neuro nonprofit. And you also mentioned just about like in your twenties, going through some friendship breakups. And so one thing that we talk a lot about on the podcast is like community, right? Like it's so important to be a part of a community that challenges you, but also supports you and like, just
holds you down when things are hard. And I feel like right now things are really hard for a lot of people. And I don't think it's going to get any better. I honestly don't. I don't know if that's some people might call that pessimistic. But I think this is we're really just seeing the tip of the iceberg here. And so I'm curious with your science background and so much of the attacks that are happening on science these days.
where people are just like, don't believe vaccines work. Or the granola to MAGA pipeline is a real thing for a reason. I'm just curious, how are you, in the messiness of all of that, how are you finding ways as a scientist and a friend to people and a member of different communities, how are you finding ways to ground yourself and
Not necessarily stay optimistic, but stay contented, you know, because I think that like toxic optimism also is like not where we want to be.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (40:58.045)
Yeah. Yeah, I feel like that's really great, like series of questions. It's something that I like, I'm trying to think about and be really intentional with daily. So I think like, that's the first part is that it's kind of like a daily weekly sort of struggle. But for me, I think two really big things. The first is that like, scientists, like, so much of being a scientist is being trained to be a leader. And I actually think in
this current like, how escape of a political climate. We need more followers, we need more people who are willing to like use their resources to help communities in different ways. I think my, one of the things that all of like, Trump's attacks on science have taught us is that like, scientists have not valued people's understanding of their work and what they do and why it's important. We sort of have taken for granted like,
vaccine effectiveness and like what it does and like how vaccines work. My family is very, it's a family of Capricorns. And so it's very much a group of people who like default to experts about things. They're like, if you know something, then I believe that you know it. You just have to be like a person of authority in that position. And I think scientists in a big way have taken that for granted. And so I think for me, a big part of it is encouraging scientists to like,
Taina Brown she/hers (42:08.446)
Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:15.358)
Mm-hmm.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (42:22.995)
get back to their communities, like explain to people what you do and why it matters to rebuild trust in the institution that is science. Because even from the start of the pandemic in 2020, we saw that people all of a sudden became virologists and were like public health experts. And I said, since when? And so I think like that's a big part of it for me in terms of like, for me, it feels a lot like because I am like.
Taina Brown she/hers (42:40.796)
Yeah, yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (42:51.069)
not in academia anymore, not doing research explicitly anymore. It's a lot of me giving scientists sort of like ego checks about like, don't get to like ego, but also like God complex elitism checks where it's like, you don't get to be a jerk to someone who doesn't understand viral transduction. Like that's the failure of the education system, but like you use those tax dollars to fund your research and thus you do owe them an explanation of like what's going on. And so I think it's about.
reinstilling trust in science. think another big part of being a community member for me now is like thinking more locally about community. I think Black and Neuro has been a global movement since it started and that's been beautiful and wonderful. And there's like a core team of about like 20 neuroscientists or people interested in neuroscience who run Black and Neuro. And like that group within a group has always been really important to me, but in this past like
I don't since January, it's been like eight years. But in this past time, it's been really important for me to be a part of my local community, right? So it's one of the reasons why I started taking so many art classes. It's one of the reasons why I try to know my neighbors now. I'm trying to be of service to people in a new way that I think is unprecedented. Scientists are trained to think big about things, and I want them to use their skills to think more.
insularly about like what they're doing. One, because it's rewarding, but two, I also think it's kind of how we survive this point in time where it's like, I don't know, I'm like volunteering at food banks and soup kitchens. I'm like going to teach-ins and sit-ins and like using my skills as a communicator, a science communicator, but still like someone who reads and writes and can talk in large crowds to like have difficult conversations at churches, even though I'm not religious, to like talk to people about.
electoral politics and why I think they're a scam, but why voting is what it is. Like, I think it's kind of like the transferable skills of it all that I want scientists to tap more into to like serve their community in new ways while we have these funding pushes. I also think that there's like something to the creativity of like, there are a lot of people who are upset about the cuts in science funding, but aren't upset about like the erasure of DEI initiatives and that personally like upsets me greatly.
Taina Brown she/hers (44:59.258)
Hmm. Mm-hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:15.652)
Hmm.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (45:17.503)
But they also were thinking about themselves. It's a lot of white men who are like, my lab is not gonna exist anymore, that sucks. And I'm like, neither are the jobs for the black and brown people that work in your lab though, or work on your floor. And so I want them to be more creative in those kinds of measures, if that makes sense, where it's like, how can we share science? How can we share resources? How can we get through the next?
Taina Brown she/hers (45:25.616)
See ya.
Becky Mollenkamp (45:26.651)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:31.76)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (45:43.537)
month together as a lab, everybody keeps a job. How can we get through the next six months, the next year? But that requires being more community oriented than I think we're used to. Sorry, I don't know if I've answered your question or gone on a new tangent.
Taina Brown she/hers (45:53.879)
Hmm.
Becky Mollenkamp (45:54.184)
can. Yeah, no. Well, and I know we have to wrap up, but I really think it would be remiss if we didn't at least ask about because you work in grant making and you are dealing with federal funding dollars and all that. we know what's happening with all of these cuts that you mentioned with, you know, grant with science funding, funding across the board from the federal government, but the way that that's affecting a lot of people. And I'm just curious as somebody who's sort of really tied into all of that. What
Taina Brown she/hers (45:56.525)
Yeah
Kaela Singleton, PhD (46:16.478)
Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp (46:23.154)
does it mean? Because I think as you talked about, people aren't always educated on these things. I think for a lot of people, it's like, well, who cares if we cut a $2 million grant to study something in mice? That doesn't feel relevant to me. Can you talk just a little bit about why that stuff matters and what the long-term implications are happening right now?
Taina Brown she/hers (46:40.843)
long-term impact here.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (46:42.717)
Yeah, think, yeah, so like in a science, like in a strictly science capacity, it means like the lack of scientific innovations. We will not be able to make disease or make vaccines, like treat diseases, have preventative care and technology. Like science is an enterprise, right? The NIH is the number one funder of science in the world, not just America. And so these cuts will greatly impact
people's ability to do science kind of period. It will also change the landscape of what kind of science gets done. We know that when black and brown people do research, like they are more interested, not more interested, but they're interested in research from their backgrounds to help them. Like we see this with the idea that like black researchers often go to like.
elite universities and then return to their communities to do family medicine, to open clinics, to do that kind of work and those things will sort of cease to happen. We'll have, like I mentioned earlier, instead of cures for diseases that are across even like men and women or race or ethnicity, it will be research that's focused sort of in this homogenous group of people. And so like science will slow. I think for me, the bigger issue is that
people will lose their jobs. People will lose their jobs. They will become poor in a society, in a system in America that has massive cuts to government funded assistance, right? Whether that's SNAP or things like the library or national parks or whatever. And we've already like criminalized poverty in this country so much that we will see these sort of irrevocable ramifications of society as a whole, right? I think we're seeing that now where scientists are losing their jobs and
This is like a whole new class of unemployed people, like people with PhDs, people with master's degrees, some better or worse, some who have never had to deal with anything difficult in their life now being faced without having a job and like perhaps not having the savviness or the resources or the know-how on how to bounce back. So we'll see the continuation of like millennials who live with their family, like people who only have generational wealth or like are married to wealth.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (49:02.569)
being able to continue throughout science and through that pipeline. There's a really great Dr. Neil Lewis, who is at Cornell University. is a, what is his technical title? He's in like social psychology, I believe. But he cited recently a really great paper that talks about the ramifications of major job layoffs to society. And I think those kinds of things will continue. So for me, it's like, it's,
It's hard because for me, I'm like, science won't continue in that side. And that it's catastrophic to like the infrastructure of a lot of things. But I care so much more about people. There will be like men, women, trans, non-binary folks who are not able to do the research that like fuels them and drives them. There will be a lower number of like black girls going into STEM and people being turned away from that curiosity. And I think that that, that to me,
matters more, like the community aspect of it, think is really important. And I think that sometimes that's missing. I think a lot of the times professors are talking in abstracts, like they're like, we don't know what's going to happen. And I'm like, we know exactly what's going to happen. You're going to have to fire that postdoc. they have a family with them. And now that family is going to be in poverty. And then we can guess like six different ways that that will affect them. like,
Taina Brown she/hers (50:14.291)
Hmm, yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (50:26.249)
People's livelihoods will change and the healthcare system will also ultimately change as well. Not for the better, obviously.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:33.459)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (50:34.355)
So just a lot of like, yeah. And I think it's a domino effect that we, like some universities now have completely canceled their like PhD interim classes for the next year where they're, I can't remember which university did it, but they rescinded offers and they were like, we won't have like PhD in biology program this year. And that will have huge consequences.
Taina Brown she/hers (50:36.199)
It's like a domino effect. Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (51:03.494)
Yeah. Yeah, well.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (51:03.721)
both to science and to people.
Becky Mollenkamp (51:05.148)
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. Just because I think people don't fully grasp. There's just and it's also part of that blitz effect of so many things happening that it's like it's hard to really contextualize all of it. So thank you for doing that. And I know we need to wrap up. I want to ask a fun question because I know you're a big reader. I saw that you love literary fiction and so do I. So what's the best book you read lately?
Kaela Singleton, PhD (51:08.286)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (51:11.988)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (51:17.983)
You're good.
Taina Brown she/hers (51:18.992)
Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (51:21.299)
Yeah. Yeah.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (51:26.622)
my god, do I have it over here?
Becky Mollenkamp (51:28.926)
I'm so excited.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (51:32.221)
No, I don't. Sorry. This house is like filled with books. I have been reading a lot of books by Hanif. I can't say his last name. I can look it up. He recently published, the first book I read by him was called, They Can't Kill Us Till They Kill Us. And it's a collection of essays that he wrote about like music and art.
He has a really great essay that like made me cry in a restaurant about like the rebirth of New Orleans and like the Little Boosie Wipe Me Down song. he is such a gifted writer. Let's see if I can find it.
Becky Mollenkamp (52:18.192)
Is it Abdu-ra-kib? Abdu-ra-kib? I don't either, I'm hoping I got that close. Abdu-ra-kib. We'll put it in the show notes.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (52:18.302)
And yes, yes, I don't know how to pronounce it. I should, this way.
Taina Brown she/hers (52:23.022)
Hmm.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (52:26.271)
Yes, I really been loving reading books by him. He has another one that I just read called Devil in America, which is about black performance in black art and growing up in Ohio and choosing to stay in Ohio and what that is like. I'm trying to think. I I haven't gotten into fantasy books. If anybody has any fantasy book recommendations, I will take them because people keep.
trying to shove it on me. But the next book that I'm reading is Portrait of a Thief by Grace D. Lee, which I haven't read, but I've heard is very good. Yeah, tons of books. I'm trying to think if there's anything else. sorry. Chain Gang All Stars was a book that I read for my book club at the beginning of the year. And that was really great. It was a great book club book. It's essentially about a dystopian
Taina Brown she/hers (53:09.092)
What, don't have a fantasy. Oh, go ahead, go ahead. I don't want you to lose your thought.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (53:25.177)
dystopian society that hits very close to home to America where people who are incarcerated basically can fight for their freedom by like this sort of Hunger Games gladiator style duels. The book is written so wonderfully. It's not just about that. It's also about like love and community and what it means to like sacrifice for one another and how to grieve grieve loss. And so I that's another great book.
Taina Brown she/hers (53:53.399)
Yeah. Well, was, was, thank you for those recommendations by the way. But, I was gonna say, I don't have, I don't know if it's considered fantasy. It's fanfic, but I have been telling everybody about it since I read it. it's Draco Malfoy and the mortifying ordeal of being in love. So if like you grew up on Harry Potter, it's, it's right up that alley and, it's long and I'm not used to reading fiction, but I devoured it in like six days.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (54:09.908)
Hmm.
Taina Brown she/hers (54:22.774)
Like it was literally one of the best things I've ever read. and I heard about it from another podcast, the BRB crying podcast. They talked about it on an episode. and yeah, I just, I'm rereading it even though I just finished it a few weeks ago, cause it's just that good.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (54:22.879)
Ooh, okay.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (54:30.962)
Okay.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (54:39.475)
love that.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (54:43.039)
this reminds me, I also finished Universality by Natasha Brown the other day, which is like very short. It's less than 200 pages. And it's about so many things. It's about capitalism. It's about like women in power. It's about community with, it's about classism in community and like what that looks like and how it feels. And she packs such a punch in those like,
less than 200 pages. That was also a really great read. Honestly, I could do this for hours. Like I could do just this part for hours.
Becky Mollenkamp (55:17.66)
I We can do the whole show, I know you're wrap up. I've heard of universality, so that was on my list. So it's nice to hear somebody say it was good. Awesome. Well, thank you for sharing all that. Thank you for sharing everything. I loved this conversation and I could talk about any of the tangents we went on probably for a lot longer. So I appreciate it. Taina, do you wanna wrap us up or anything else that you wanna say?
Kaela Singleton, PhD (55:24.83)
Yeah.
Taina Brown she/hers (55:38.62)
Yeah, no, thanks again, Kayla. Where can people find out about black and neuro?
Kaela Singleton, PhD (55:44.485)
yeah, you can find out about black and no at black and no.com. have, black and Neuro's our handle on blue sky, but also Instagram and, X or Twitter, if people are still using that as well, but we have shifted to different platforms. yeah, we're all over the internet.
Taina Brown she/hers (56:03.487)
Okay, and where can people find you and look at your beautiful dinner and CSA box photos?
Kaela Singleton, PhD (56:07.903)
That's true. You can find me at kss-phd.com but also on Instagram at kssphd. I'm in a blue sky, similar handle, kssphd.
Taina Brown she/hers (56:24.351)
Well, thank you again so much for your time and for letting us pick through your brain on all these different tangents that we went on, like Becky said.
Kaela Singleton, PhD (56:33.887)
Yeah, no, of course this is so great. I would do it again a thousand times over.