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Join old friends and acclaimed artists, John Butler and Dingo Spender, for an intimate conversation delving into the creative process and narrative behind John's captivating new musical venture, 'Running River.' Settle in as they share anecdotes, inspirations, and the transformative journey that led to this ambient masterpiece. From the inception of melodies to the ethereal landscapes evoked through sound, explore the depths of artistic collaboration and musical exploration. Whether you're a long-time fan or a newcomer to Johns's work, this episode offers a rare glimpse into the heart and soul of his journey through new sonic territories.
Speaker 1: Hello, dear friends, this is John Butler
Speaker 1: and you're about to listen to a podcast
Speaker 1: called Running the River.
Speaker 1: This is a new podcast that I have put
Speaker 1: together with my dear friend Dingo Spender.
Speaker 1: He, you may recall, helped me with the last
Speaker 1: podcast I made for my album Home.
Speaker 1: Here again we deconstruct and get under the
Speaker 1: skin and get our hands dirty in the
Speaker 1: substrate soil of what I was envisioning
Speaker 1: for this latest ambient album.
Speaker 1: This is an album I made for wellness
Speaker 1: practitioners and practicers alike to
Speaker 1: defrag and decompress in this very busy,
Speaker 1: fast and quick world, and we hope you enjoy
Speaker 1: as we take you up down and across the river.
Speaker 1: This is Running the River.
Speaker 2: So let's go a little bit deeper on the
Speaker 2: intros to your songs.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, always mucked around with that
Speaker 1: eastern and celtic, I mean even blues does
Speaker 1: it.
Speaker 1: You know, there's like this miran
Speaker 1: meandering, uh, intros, that kind of set a
Speaker 1: mood and a feel, um, and so, like you know,
Speaker 1: even acoustically, uh, you know, for
Speaker 1: example, you know, even when I was learning
Speaker 1: with Deba Shish, for example, you know,
Speaker 1: like the, the, the intros are kind of
Speaker 1: important, you know, and then then you'd go
Speaker 1: into the Raga but like, for example, you
Speaker 1: know this ESC, you know, as I said, into
Speaker 1: the raga, but like, for example, you know
Speaker 1: this esque.
Speaker 1: You know, as I said, I bastardize and
Speaker 1: mongrel everything.
Speaker 1: So this is no, there's no strict modality
Speaker 1: about what I'm doing.
Speaker 1: But these kind of things, yeah, so I mean
Speaker 1: the Celtics have is much the same as the
Speaker 1: Indian stuff, at least how I approach it.
Speaker 1: As I said, I'm no aficionado how do you say
Speaker 1: that word?
Speaker 1: Aficionado, aficionado, I'm no aficionado
Speaker 1: on any of it.
Speaker 1: So you know what would that be?
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, I mean it's
Speaker 1: Celtic-esque.
Speaker 1: You know, if I was doing the intro, you
Speaker 1: know, just kind of very similar to like the
Speaker 1: Indian stuff in a way.
Speaker 1: You know, but then not instantly, I start
Speaker 1: bringing in Debashisha stuff and turns into
Speaker 1: Celtic Indian, I don't know whatever.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's very much the same.
Speaker 1: But if you're doing even blues, if you're
Speaker 1: starting, I think you know probably most
Speaker 1: practices, you know most styles of music
Speaker 1: have that kind of thing, or maybe
Speaker 1: instrumental music, maybe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so show us like how you make these
Speaker 2: guitar beats and lay down this band.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think I said earlier on, like
Speaker 1: once I decided I got the arc of the seasons
Speaker 1: and had some context.
Speaker 1: It was like things started falling into
Speaker 1: place really quickly.
Speaker 1: So I just kind of this is like my little
Speaker 1: mini, kind of mini rig that I use for real
Speaker 1: small you know, doing benefits and stuff,
Speaker 1: but it was something even smaller than this
Speaker 1: in my living room.
Speaker 1: I just sat there and kind of wrote most of
Speaker 1: the music really quickly and it kind of
Speaker 1: started just with, like you know, literally
Speaker 1: a heartbeat, as simple as possible, you
Speaker 1: know.
Speaker 1: So something to play over, something to
Speaker 1: kind of create a bed with.
Speaker 1: So it's like you know, and and then create
Speaker 1: some ambience, some, you know, that'd be
Speaker 1: the basis really.
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, so, so, and that's
Speaker 1: kind of how I wrote most things Like.
Speaker 1: Even, like you know, you know, sometimes I
Speaker 1: would slow down the delay a bit and then
Speaker 1: just literally just on the spot, be like so
Speaker 1: yeah, so there's like a whole delay pedal
Speaker 1: like on the bridge pickup.
Speaker 1: So I run two pickups and this guy's picking
Speaker 1: up the body and this guy's picking more of
Speaker 1: the amp just to bring in extra grunt when
Speaker 1: needed, you know, and so maybe one song
Speaker 1: might just be a little bit more like, like,
Speaker 1: uh, and all of them are like based around
Speaker 1: this heartbeat, like not getting fancy with
Speaker 1: the beats at all.
Speaker 1: So just kind of like, let's make it slower.
Speaker 1: Wait, what's that?
Speaker 1: Speed back, that's actually good.
Speaker 1: It's slower, john, that's faster, let's try
Speaker 1: this one, okay.
Speaker 1: So a lot of times like, okay, I want this
Speaker 1: to be calming, slow, and in the practice of
Speaker 1: making it, it sent me to new places to
Speaker 1: really get mindful, because there was no
Speaker 1: way I could be anywhere else but in these
Speaker 1: very slow rhythms.
Speaker 1: So like something like this, for example
Speaker 1: what do we do next?
Speaker 1: May I go?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's the song off the album,
Speaker 1: thank you.
Speaker 1: And just the practice of having to play
Speaker 1: that slow and just like Was amazingly
Speaker 1: therapeutic.
Speaker 1: It was totally healing for me just to play
Speaker 1: that slow, bring the nervous system down
Speaker 1: away from something like you know, like you
Speaker 1: know, like whoa, which is great and super
Speaker 1: warrior and great.
Speaker 1: But you know there's a whole other idea of
Speaker 1: warrior.
Speaker 1: That's common, you know.
Speaker 1: And so I made this a lot of these songs 10
Speaker 1: minutes, 15 minutes to, so you could be
Speaker 1: used for like a practice, like TM does, 20
Speaker 1: minutes, you know, and you know, some of
Speaker 1: the breathing exercises are 15 to half hour
Speaker 1: and I was like, how can I make this?
Speaker 1: You know, shavasana, shavasana.
Speaker 1: After yoga it's like you sit for 10 minutes,
Speaker 1: 15 minutes.
Speaker 1: So I was writing, you know, I'd make a loop
Speaker 1: on the beat and then I play this chord
Speaker 1: progression for 10 minutes and I often
Speaker 1: pluck different every time.
Speaker 1: But this song, these songs, wanted
Speaker 1: repetition, trance, like headspace.
Speaker 1: So it's just, you know, One, two, three,
Speaker 1: four, that's it the whole time, like that's
Speaker 1: it.
Speaker 1: And then you know, and doing that for 10
Speaker 1: minutes, like it's an extremely calming
Speaker 1: thing, a very simple thing, very
Speaker 1: trance-like thing, and a lot of times we'd
Speaker 1: listen back and we'd both be nodding off
Speaker 1: and that was like, yes, we're doing the
Speaker 1: right job, you know, because, yeah, it was
Speaker 1: about bringing the nervous system down.
Speaker 1: So that was kind of how it was built and I
Speaker 1: just made most of the songs other than
Speaker 1: Wartua, you know, wartu song and chant and
Speaker 1: pray for my people, and the flute, the
Speaker 1: flute kind of breathing cedar instrumental.
Speaker 1: They were mostly built this way and kind of
Speaker 1: that quickly sometimes, you know, and then
Speaker 1: in the studio we could elaborate and
Speaker 1: Stretch out and David have a suggestion of?
Speaker 1: Maybe not, and that's how it started.
Speaker 1: You know, we, we literally set up a whole
Speaker 1: room with a PA that would just make, you
Speaker 1: know, put the beat in the room and record
Speaker 1: that whole beat in a big ambient space, not
Speaker 1: just through a DI, that whole beat in a big
Speaker 1: ambient space, not just through a DI, and
Speaker 1: then, you know, I'd play to that and we'd
Speaker 1: have nice mics on my guitar, but then this
Speaker 1: whole thing, or at least, or at least this
Speaker 1: part, it would all be going on in another
Speaker 1: room as well through a PA system.
Speaker 1: So mics in this PA system, and Dave just
Speaker 1: did this amazing job of capturing like the
Speaker 1: three-dimensionality of the sonics and that
Speaker 1: space actually really adds.
Speaker 1: It really adds to the sound.
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, there's delays and there's
Speaker 1: reverbs, but there's also this cavernous
Speaker 1: space that all the sound is being able to
Speaker 1: envelop in.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's kind of the techie world
Speaker 1: and the birthplace of it.
Speaker 1: You know, a big part of that was Dave Mann,
Speaker 1: which we've kind of gone into before, just
Speaker 1: like how amazing he is as an individual and
Speaker 1: the sounds he pulled, and also just a
Speaker 1: really great this crow, this war, the car
Speaker 1: ward on and and what, andy Wongi, and that
Speaker 1: there's a crow that's on a song so
Speaker 1: interesting and we you know Davis, we had a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of mics up in the in the
Speaker 1: recording room that had that was recording
Speaker 1: the PA, and then I was in the monitor room
Speaker 1: with him with the mics on my guitar and
Speaker 1: this word on was kept on crowing through
Speaker 1: the whole song and it ended up becoming the
Speaker 1: name of the song flight of the crow,
Speaker 1: because he just was just there coming at,
Speaker 1: okay, knocking on the window can I ask is
Speaker 1: it, is it the crow?
Speaker 2: is it the get out of bed crow?
Speaker 2: It's the get out of bed crow.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, can I share?
Speaker 2: Yes, please do so.
Speaker 2: I've stayed quite a number of times in your
Speaker 2: studio, um, not necessarily because we've
Speaker 2: been doing music, but I've also.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've got a lot.
Speaker 2: I've done a lot in time in that room.
Speaker 2: Yes, and there's this crow, this that has
Speaker 2: this compulsion at the crack of dawn,
Speaker 2: pretty much every day, and he comes up to
Speaker 2: the, to the glass, and he just pecks it and
Speaker 2: it's like quite loud, like he goes bang,
Speaker 2: bang, bang and then, and then you wait a
Speaker 2: minute and then three knocks again and he,
Speaker 2: it's, he does that, he's been doing that
Speaker 2: for years, he has been doing it for years
Speaker 2: and who like?
Speaker 1: what's his story who?
Speaker 1: Who are they?
Speaker 1: Um, I mean, I mean, that's a big question.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm always similar to when dogs
Speaker 1: don't like you and you're like what do they
Speaker 1: see that I don't see?
Speaker 1: Like, oh, I'll take that personally.
Speaker 1: I always take it a little personally when
Speaker 1: the crow just finds the room I'm in, when
Speaker 1: the whole house is empty, and goes with his
Speaker 1: beak.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so hard as well, like his beak
Speaker 2: must be, yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, you know they, like I don't know what
Speaker 1: the dreaming stories are for other places,
Speaker 1: but you know what I've been shared with
Speaker 1: from Uncle Wayne and and his son Isaac is,
Speaker 1: you know there's a vanity story.
Speaker 1: There's a vanity dreaming kind of story
Speaker 1: about, kind of being obsessed with their
Speaker 1: image and having this whole kind of war
Speaker 1: with it and the fact I think it was
Speaker 1: actually like I don't recall the story
Speaker 1: exactly but like the reason why the crow
Speaker 1: and the magpie are the way they are is
Speaker 1: because they were fighting.
Speaker 1: They're both really big, bold energies that
Speaker 1: were fighting to be the most beautiful and
Speaker 1: they got in a fight and they actually got
Speaker 1: burnt in the flames and that's why the crow
Speaker 1: is black and that's why the magpie cobardy,
Speaker 1: as they call it in Southwest is is black
Speaker 1: and white, um, but I don't know the
Speaker 1: intricacies of that story.
Speaker 1: but yeah, all Wardong came and knocked at
Speaker 1: pretty interesting times during the whole
Speaker 1: thing, hmm, and you can pick it up because
Speaker 1: the studio is not soundproof, like this my,
Speaker 1: my monitor room is ish, but the main room
Speaker 1: isn't.
Speaker 1: You know, we live in the country, you don't
Speaker 1: need a lot of it.
Speaker 1: And uh, so there's a lot of bird sounds on
Speaker 1: the album that were caught, captured.
Speaker 1: You know this.
Speaker 1: We're capturing this pa doing this guitar
Speaker 1: beat and then I'm playing over the top of
Speaker 1: it.
Speaker 1: We have like a pickup that's with a delay,
Speaker 1: that's being played through a pa in a very
Speaker 1: big room with high ceilings and then these
Speaker 1: mics on and so like everything's kind of
Speaker 1: getting picked up.
Speaker 1: There's all this space and yeah, there's a
Speaker 1: few birds in there.
Speaker 1: And yeah, Dave just got an amazing sound, a
Speaker 1: really great sound.
Speaker 1: And then from there, uh, and also just an
Speaker 1: amazing individual, very gentle and humble
Speaker 1: and thoughtful individual, um, to work with,
Speaker 1: which was really great.
Speaker 1: It felt really, you know, uh excuse the
Speaker 1: catchphrase, but it felt safe, you know and
Speaker 1: um, and then we took it to James Newhouse,
Speaker 1: an amazing engineer, producer, mixer, and
Speaker 1: we sat for a few days and mixed it.
Speaker 1: So, Dave and an amazing engineer, producer,
Speaker 1: mixer, and we sat for a few days and mixed
Speaker 1: it.
Speaker 1: So Dave and I worked for 10 days on the
Speaker 1: album just doing all the stuff.
Speaker 1: And then I went to James Newhouse and he's
Speaker 1: fantastic and also, once again, a very
Speaker 1: amazing gentle, humble, badass and
Speaker 1: sweetheart of an individual Went to his
Speaker 1: home studio there, or the studio that he
Speaker 1: has in his home, a really great studio.
Speaker 1: And then we got Zeno Mickerey to master it
Speaker 1: and I got Zeno's name because he did all
Speaker 1: the Nils Fram stuff, which is music I just
Speaker 1: love to listen to Speaking of soothing Me
Speaker 1: too Frayed nervous systems.
Speaker 1: No-transcript.