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A narrative podcast from two bird lovers (and friends) exploring all things bird.
I'm Hannah.
And I'm Cleo.
And you're listening to Birds On. Welcome back to Birds on Birds.
I'm so excited for the episode today.
We're doing our 1st non-North American bird.
Yeah, I am stoked.
I got a whole new subscription to a whole new side of Merlin, Birds of the World to do my notes on this and I...
Still powered by Merlin.
Still powered by Merlin, still Cornell has cornered the market.
Cornell cornered the market.
Try saying that 5 times fast.
Maybe we need to go to Cornell.
Where is Cornell?
New York.
I could go there.
I thought it was in the UK for some reason.
I mean, there might be a Cornell in UK, but the Cornell is in New York.
Okay.
We can make it there.
I'm actually going there in July, so maybe we go to Cornell.
Okay.
Maybe we find Merlin.
Why are you going to New York in July?
Work trip.
Oh, yeah.
Your work does go to New York more.
Yeah, they do.
But I like that.
I do too. Jealous. Excited.
I mean, I like Seattle, but no, Seattle is really cool too, but yeah, New York is New York just has more to explore.
Every time you're there, you could find a new, different thing.
So, and then I also have to go to Florida in September, and I think I have a Seattle trip and an Irvine trip for work later in the year too.
So the 2nd half of the year is going to be really packed for me and I really got to like put a sign on my door or something that says grab your binoculars because every time I pack lately, I am like, I am forgetting something.
And then as soon as I get where I'm supposed to be going, I realize it's my binoculars.
And I'm sad every time.
So I'm literally going to put a sign on my door that says pack your binoculars so that I can stop forgetting my binoculars. One of the times, but.. You did, and I remembered that time, and it was awesome.
But all the other times I forgot and it was devastating.
Hannah, before we get into today's episode.
What's going on?
Um, not a lot has happened since the last time I chatted.
The biggest thing that happened for me was that I finally went to the wild animal sanctuary this weekend.
Oh gosh, I love that place.
It's the place that's in the plains where you almost walk on like a...
There's a raised platform.
Boardwalk, platform.
Boardwalk is a better word, I think.
It spans a lot of the enclosures, but it's in Keensburg, Colorado, so it's east.
And it was amazing.
First of all, it's a really cool organization.
It's the largest animal sanctuary in North America, which is very fun, but they saved a lot, if not most of the Tiger King tigers.
Oh, shit, I didn't know that.
I went pre-tiger King.
You did.
Oh my gosh. How interesting They rescued like 39 plus animals of Tiger King.
Yeah.
Joe Exotic, um, from the famous Tiger King Netflix docu-series.
Yeah, I feel like if you don't know what that is.
We simply can't explain it to you.
You have to just go back in time.
And it came out deep COVID when all of us were silent away.
So I feel like everyone watched it, but if you didn't, I would check it out.
I do recommend it's an interesting watch.
However, the animals were not well treated.
The tigers were not the kings.
They were not treated well.
It was very fucked up.
So basically every animal that's there is an animal that's had to be rehabilitated from some sort of abusive situation.
So sometimes it's like they're rescued from a circus.
So they recently had some lions come in from Bolivia and then Mexico.
So they're traveling the world.
They have a team of people that go and travel.
And then they have like a really cool system where they have to like kind of ramp up these animals to be in these beautiful enclosures.
Yeah.
Where, I mean, they are fenced in technically, but it's a lot of space and they get the these amazing, like, setups with all sorts of stuff that any of the animals could need.
For like enrichment too, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
So, like, they have jaguars and...
They have ocelots from what I remember.
Oh my gosh.
I don't know that I saw the ocelots, but that doesn't mean they don't have him.
I really love ocelots, so.. All the big cat enclosures.
So lions, tigers, ligers, which they had like at least 3 that we saw.
And talking to one of the volunteers.
Turns out liggers are not naturally occurring in nature.
So thank humans.
And they also can't reproduce.
I forget what that's called, but I learned it in biology, but mules, I believe, are the same way.
Where you can breed a horse and a donkey and it makes a mule.
You can breed a lion and a tiger and it makes a tiger.
But like mules cannot.
Yeah, liger, sorry, it doesn't make a tiger.
Um, 2 mules could not make a baby.
They're they're infertile and 2 liigers could not make more liigers.
Like you can just make. Also have like other problems.
Oh, 100%.
But, well, mules strangely, I don't think so.
But there is a specific word for animals that can reproduce, but then their offspring cannot reproduce.
Okay.
If like 2 different species can come together to make a different species, but then that species cannot and is like infertile.
There's a specific word for that.
And I, any scientists listening, shout out, I will Google it later, but...
There's a word for it.
Yeah.
No.
I mean, the ligers were beautiful, but apparently they're rife with issues.
Yeah.
It's kind of like an, it seems like a, an overbred dog or something like it's similar where they just have a bunch of like health issues and not to mention being infertile.
So they had ligers, lions, tigers, all and Jaguars and all of the cat enclosures have like these like gigantic version of a cat tree, basically.
Like, it's very cool.
There was a shit ton of red wing blackbirds, which was really fun.
Um, and I saw an immature bald eagle, which was really cool.
Oh yeah, that picture you sent me was awesome.
He got so close to us and...
Yeah, the, I told the guy who volunteered there.
I was like, is that an immature bald eagle?
And he was like, yes.
Very good.
Oh my god, nothing feels better than when you connect with an animal person. Gold star.
It's the best.
No, truly.
Like after school and like getting good grades or like getting accolades, you really like sometimes need to hunt for that approval.
Yeah. Need that.
Yeah, yeah.
I do that sometimes too, where I'm like, oh, that's one of these, isn't it?
And it's like, I know that, but I just want to look smart.
I just want you to know that I know that.
Yeah exactly.
So actually, they have 2 more sanctuaries now.
Oh, like, refuges or something, and they're not accessible by humans, except for their, like, staff.
Yeah.
Um, and I don't know that they're heavily staffed or they're just checked in on.
I'm not sure, but one is exclusively for horses, which is very cool.
And that's in southern Colorado, I believe.
And then another one also in an area in southern Colorado is just a refuge that is open acreage.
They showed like a bear climbing on a rock because they have a bunch of bears.
I was going to say, I remember there being bears when I went.
Bear bears.
There were foxes, there were coyotes.
It was so cool.
But anyway, yeah, there's 2 refuges that they have just to give these animals like as amazing of a life as they can have. Before they pass away.
Well, and I think the cool part is that they do the boardwalk.
So when you're viewing the animals, it's not set up like a zoo so people can go, but you walk above them and you look into their enclosure from up above.
And so the animal is not like disturbed by your presence, so you can still interact with them, but in a way that is like much more less anxiety inducing for it. Or the end level.
Yeah, yeah.
And so it feels, especially because a lot of these animals came from situations that were not great.
It just helps them be further at ease, but also helps, you know, the people who run the sanctuary to make money into, like, show the animals to the world without necessarily putting them in a situation that ramps up their anxiety or whatever that might look like.
And so it is a really cool thing.
I asked Hannah about this, but when I went, this was years ago, it must have like right after I moved to Colorado, so like almost 10 years ago, but the guy who ran it, I think, had all of these dogs, I'm talking like 11 dogs, like showed up out of nowhere as we were walking in, and it was, I specifically remember because I have an obsession with like knowing dog breeds, and there were 3 Irish Wolfhounds, and I'd never seen one in person, and I love an Irish Wolfhound.
And they also had dachshunds.
They had like all these different mutts, like probably all rescues.
And then the guy, he just like jumped in a van.
It was literally like a minivan, like a la Kia Sedona, like blue, had the doors ripped off, like so those like sliding doors that bands have.
And the dogs just pile, no seats.
The dogs just piled in and were like standing there as he drove through the enclosure to get wherever he was supposed to go, not the enclosure, but like the driving path for people who work there.
And none of the dogs were jumping out.
It was just like fully open and it was one of the craziest things I've ever seen.
I was like, how do you even go about training a dog to do that?
I don't even know.
And you've not just done it once.
You did it 11 times.
How did we what happened here?
So maybe he can talk to animals.
I don't know.
Maybe.
That's my hypothesis as of right now. Believe it.
Yeah.
What else have been up to?
That's really it.
I saw Mother Mary, which was very good.
Yeah, I'm really excited to see that.
And Hathaway just keeps getting hotter.
And Michaela Cole is playing opposite her and I was extremely impressed by her.
Both of their...
I think I know who you're talking about, but.
She's been in like a couple, yep, this is exactly who I think.
She made a whole story that was like based on her rape.
She made a whole TV show based on it.
I believe I'm gonna need to check that out and yeah, I may destroy you.
It was like a whole story.
And my understanding was that it was based on her real experience that she had, which was like devastating and it was a really beautiful.
I don't know if you could say beautiful, but it was very, very good that show.
Yeah.
I believe it was a mini series.
That sounds right.
I remember he about it.
Yeah.
I'm a sucker for someone who has big eyes that are like really far apart.
I love.
She.
Yeah.
Honestly, watching the 2 of them together is very interesting.
Like, they're very different.
And then also the way this film is shot and I think intentionally done.
It feels almost like a play at a lot of times.
Yeah, which is really interesting.
So the dialogue is just like really sharp and it was really interesting.
I'm excited to see it.
So that's it as far as what I've been up to, but I did want to do a little bit of a correction corner for the 1st time ever.
Let's go the corner.
Okay.
We're in trouble.
So, 1st up, Dennis Rodman was not married to Pamela Anderson.
He was married to Carmen Electra.
So I just wanted to set the record straight because I didn't look it up until after we recorded the episode.
That's funny.
That's one.
It's not what I said.
The 2nd one.
Yeah, I like to keep you on your toast. Always do.
The 2nd one is for the Marsh Ren, which we just talked about, and they do, in fact, migrate through summer.
Nope, migrade through Colorado in the summer.
Yeah, no, that's You are actually the one that figured this out.
Well, I found it by accident because I was looking through them on Merlin and I was going through the sounds and one was from Colorado and I was like, wait a second.
Wait a second. Do they go here?
And so I looked it up and they do come through the wetlands in Colorado, which makes sense, though, because we were in the wetlands of Colorado.
We saw red wing blackbirds.
We didn't see any marsh friends, but it was not summer.
In fact it was winter.
And so it makes sense that we didn't, but it also makes sense that they go through there.
Some of the migrating populations or where all of them migrating.
No, it was just summer migrating populations.
No, I'm pretty sure almost all marsh Ren populations are migratory.
There's almost no year-round marshall.
Oh, okay.
Good to know That's interesting.
Huh.
Because you would think...
Yeah, you would think that the marshland provides year round.
Yeah.
Let me just.
Do you ever feel like whenever you are not needing anything on Facebook marketplace, everything is gas in the moment that you need something, everything sucks.
Mm-hmm.
Martians actually do have a couple year round locations.
So one of them is where I just saw the mushroom, so up on like PNW coast.
Nice.
So it extends through the Seattle coast and the Oregon coast.
Nice.
And then a little bit, it looks like on the very, very edge of the coast of California.
Okay.
And then it seems like Washington State and Oregon have a good amount of wetlands, which makes sense.
It's pretty wet there.
And then there is a year-round population in like the corner where Idaho, Wyoming, and Utah are touching.
And then, finally, along the east coast.
So not Florida, which is interesting.
But South Carolina, North Carolina, and Rhode Island, it looks like those coastal areas, Delaware, maybe a little bit.
Yeah, so more places where it's like kind of a year round, more temperate environment.
They can be of the marsh all the time.
Yeah, but then the rest of them are migratory.
Correct.
Okay. Interesting.
Thanks for that update.
I was curious after I saw that and I couldn't remember if we had said they didn't live in Colorado, but I thought we did.
And I was like, wait a minute.
Yeah.
I thought I would never see them in person.
Yeah, well, it seems like a small window.
Yeah.
Well, and I don't know if, like, they need the wetlands to be a certain vibe for them to vibe.
Yeah, vibe of wetlands.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That makes sense.
So, Cleo, what's been going on for you?
Honestly, same not much since we last saw each other.
I saw you only a week ago.
So not a lot happened between now and then.
Rockets training is going well.
You got to see him on a walk today.
He's doing very good Very good.
If we took the treats out of the picture, we would be back at square one, but you have to start somewhere.
So everything is fine.
One thing I did want to mention, it's not quite a corrections corner, it's more just a plug to watch a video.
I did tag it after the fact for Purple Hill in the Bill Lishman notes, but I hadn't watched it until after we did the episode and I desperately wish I had watched it before I just love that man even more than I did before he is incredible.
The house, I will remind you, Purple Hill.
He designed.
It is 100% circular, no right angles.
Even the drawers don't really have red angles.
Like they're all edged out and all of the rooms are spherical.
He has one of those pop up fridge tables that we see actually in the movie, which I loved.
I think it's a reference to him.
Oh, it's 100% in reference to him.
I just was like, oh, this has actually happened for someone.
And how could you, I mean, because where are you going to find a circular refrigerator?
He had to make one. Out of a table.
Couldn't have a right angle, you know?
So, like, what was he gonna do?
And he also had a trapeze in his living room just like hanging in the middle.
And he also had a bird head sculpting piece that he was working on in his bathroom, just like in the middle of the bathroom.
Oh, I love him so much.
It was incredible.
I just highly recommend you go watch it.
I will say if you get any weird feelings about videos shaking.
Um, maybe trigger warning. A pretty shaky video.
He walks around with a handy cam.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's not.
It's not the most stable video I've ever seen, but it's Bill walking around his own house on his own YouTube channel, and I think that makes it really special.
So shout out to him.
Oh, and it's underground, which we did mention in the last episode, but all of the rooms have like a top skylight that lets all the light in and because they're spherical, it actually was pretty bright in there most of the time. Pretty incredible.
So yeah, please go watch that.
It's linked under the Bill Lishman notes section for that episode.
It's amazing.
You could also just look up Purple Hill House, and you'll find it pretty easily.
The only other thing I've been up to is school and this and because it's school work and this.
I have just been watching a bunch of crafting videos while I do my homework and that's making me feel satiated to crafting because I haven't had time to craft, but yeah, I did do a roundup of what my free time would look like this year before I graduate and it's only about 6 weeks of time that I don't have anything going on with school and that was a little bit depressing until December like 15th.
Yeah.
So that that hurts a little bit.
But once I'm done, I'm like done.
So I really just got to stick it out.
And there are a lot of things that are helping me get through that.
But I was in a bit of a bleak moment the other day when I was like, 0 no.
When will I even have the time?
But yeah, other than that, I have been doing that?
And I've been doing my notes and notes and I've just been exploding with knowledge and it has been so hard for me to not tell you and like text you when I find new information because I want to surprise you so bad about this.
I know almost nothing.
Well, and I think I should mention, we hinted at it last week, but I don't think we actually said it.
We just said stink birds.
So I am doing the Hudson today.
Mm-hmm. Which.. Surprise.
It's gonna be in the title, so I don't know why I'm acting like people wouldn't be surprised by this.
But I am super excited.
So if you're ready to jump in, I'm ready.
I'm so ready Okay, let's do it.
Mell it up.
Let's stank it up.
Stank.
A smelly smell.
It smells.
Smelly.
So, today, we are talking about the Hudson bird, which is also known as Watson.
Like, that's another way to pronounce it.
I saw that in a couple places and a couple videos I watched.
It was only pronounced as Watson, so I don't know if that is just preference or dialect.
I'm not totally sure, but it is said to have derived from ancient Aztec Najuata language.
Okay.
I am certain I'm not saying that correctly, but I am trying.
Okay.
There are other names are Flying Cow, a.k.a. Stink bird, a.k.a. Reptile bird.
The kanji pheasant, which is its name in Guyana, where it is actually the national bird, and many other birds.
What is kanji?
I am not sure.
It's spelled like C-A-N-G-E. So I think that it is probably a place in Guyana.
Kanji, or Kanji, maybe, if I was going to try to say that with the correct accent and then pheasant, because it does kind of look like a chicken.
I would say, well, and it, but like a fancy chicken, which is what a pheasant is.
We're going to go through all of the things about what it looks like and there's so much more than you could possibly ask for or ever even think to put on a bird. Perfect.
You know that skit that they do part of bird on it in Portlandia?
Yeah.
This is like, what did you put on that bird?
Oh, and then they just kept putting things in the bird and everyone was like, why does that bird have that?
And scientists are like, I don't know.
Wow.
And I can't wait to tell you about it.
Andora's box of birds.
It is kind of the Pandora's box of birds.
Okay, so let's get into all about the Hudson bird box, exactly TM.
Nope, not TM because that movie happened.
Their scientific name is, I'm gonna do my best.
Opus the Comus Hosen.
Okay.
It sounds like open says me.
It's not.
It does sound like a spell.
Opus the comis.
I think that's pretty close.
Their size is about 22 to 26 inches tip to tip, which is about 55 to 65 centimeters.
They weigh about 12 to 23 ounces, which is about .35 to .65 KG.
I'm trying to do American metrics and then, no, American imperial system and then metrics so that anybody from another country knows what we're talking about because America's the oddball here.
And then the wingspan is 27.5 inches and it's about 70 centimeters.
Damn.
So what they look like.
This is just the start of weirdness.
So there is virtually no sexual demorphism.
So males and females look basically exactly the same.
They have a long, loose crest of wispy, reddish, like orange brown feathers.
They also have some like wispy feathers under their beak and like on the neck area as well.
Those are a little bit less pronounced, the ones on the top of their head are very much like a full crest.
They have brown necks with white striping and feathers on the back, so their necks have striping, but that's it.
The rest of it does not.
So it's just down their neck, like back of the neck area.
Okay.
The chest area is sort of this like pale rust color kind of like depends on which bird you're looking at for how darker light it is, but it is always that kind of like rusty brown color.
The feathers of the wings are brown and dark black and they have some barring at the tips of the feathers on just the 1st few layers, so they have stripes on the neck, but then they have barring on the wings.
Interesting.
And yeah, there's no stripes at all on the wings.
So it literally ends at the neck and then on the wings, the 1st 2 layers of the wings, like the top 2 have barring, but then the last layer does not, but then the tail feathers are actually pretty long and they are fan shaped and they have this like really thick white barring towards the tip.
So it kind of skips.
And then also when they have their wings out, their longest feathers that are towards the edge are actually more of like a rust color and they're like really bright red versus the brown and like dark ones that are more closer towards the middle.
So we've got a lot of colors and patterns going on just with the feathers alone.
Okay.
They have blue skin around their eyes. Like bright blue.
Yeah.
Like an electric blue.
Yeah, very noticeably blue.
Like you would never contest that it wasn't blue, even if you were colorblind.
I don't know.
I don't know how they see, so maybe they would.
Sorry, I don't know how that works.
And it kind of goes down into the beak area too, so their beak looks like this kind of like bluish gray color.
It was described as pinkish by some people.
I looked at a lot of pictures and I felt like it looked more blue gray to me, but I've never seen them in person, so who knows?
And they have red eyes.
So they have blueskin.
And then like bright red eyes.
Right.
Like the actual white part of a human eye is red.
All red.
And it looks crazy.
It does.
They look so crazy.
And with the like rusted, the brown colors and the blue skin and that like big crest, they really just look like a punk rock chicken.
Like really, really kind of a wild vibe.
They do have kind of like a longer neck, not quite like a crane, but more like a chicken.
So think like, you know, not like a warbler where it's just like head body.
They have a neck, you know, a distinct neck.
I did see also one that was lucistic, so white, basically, like, which is a genetic mutation, and instead of the blueskin, it had white skin, instead of a red eye, it was black, which I thought was really interesting because in any other, like, albino morph of an animal, usually the eyes turn red because it's removal of pigmentation.
But because it already had red eyes, I guess, when it has lucism, which is pretty uncommon, the eye is black. Interesting.
Yeah, and the skin is brown and then some of the feathers are also more on the white side rather than the black side, but it still has like that mix.
So really fascinating.
I just happened to see that on birds of the world and I wanted to keep it in there.
All right, I have a new word alert, which is natal down.
Natal down.
Natal down, diva down, baby down, natal down.
Natal.
Neonatal.
Dradle?
No.
So, I, basically, when I was trying to find this stuff, I got access to the, um, birds of the world, and there were a lot of, it's basically like reading a scientific journal, you do have to upgrade to be able to see a lot of the information.
It's honestly worth it.
It gives you so much information.
It felt like there are pictures, there are videos, there's audio, there are like scientific descriptions that some of them were going way over my head and I really had to think about it.
But one of the things I learned was natal down, which is basically plumage or downy feathers that they're born with that keep them warm while their parents are out looking for food.
So any bird that's born with like those little like fluff of feathers, that's natal down.
Oh, yeah.
Just a fun.
I just thought that was like a fun thing that you would want to know.
Like a crane.
Anything that when it's born with that 1st amount of feathers, that's their natal down.
Oh, yeah. Interesting.
Just a fun term that I thought would be a cool thing to bring to you in our audience.
Yeah.
I've heard it called precocial.
Oh.
Like they're precocial, which is similar to like saying someone's precocious.
So they were like...
Right.
So precocious, just means like ahead of your time.
Yeah.
So, I guess in America, we call birds who have those natal down feathers.
We call it precocial.
Oh, that's so interesting.
Yeah, I didn't see that anywhere on here.
So I wonder if that's American.
Yeah, more of an American thing or maybe more of a birding thing, but not the word that they use in like science.
Because I know sometimes there's overlap, but sometimes the terms are more descriptive to be able to just like pass along an idea, you know, versus if you were going to write a paper about natal down.
Yeah, you know, maybe there's like a specific way.
I don't really know.
But either way, Hotzin, they are born with like a fluffy, dark brown or dark cinnamon, as I quote, natal down, which is really cool.
And now for the 1st strangest thing, or maybe not the 1st because the blueskin red eye thing with the crest is they do look pretty strange.
But this part really shook me.
So the babies, sorry, I just like think about this and it already makes me feel crazy.
The babies are born with claws on their wings.
Okay, on their wings.
So like on the tip of their wings at the quote unquote wrist joint, and they move completely separately of the rest of the wing as like its own hand skeleton, which can grab onto things.
Like a bat?
Like, kind of, but like, yeah, kind of like a bat.
Yeah, they have these, they have these claws.
They're literally born with and they think that this is like some kind of prehistoric thing that just stuck around through evolution, but they can use them completely independently of their wing movement.
Like they could grab your finger with their claw on their wing.
It's so, so weird.
And they also walk around like a quadruped with them and they can climb.
So it's really crazy and really cool.
And to make it even stranger, they also just lose them.
What?
They fall off after 70 to 100 days.
They just...
Only the babies have.
Only the babies have them.
It is.
What?
I've never heard of anything like this.
Like, I was going through the notes and I was like, what do you mean?
Like, what happens to them?
And they were like, yeah, they just kind of wither and just like fall off during a certain time period.
Why?
I don't know, but I do have more about what they do with those claws and how they're helpful to them later in the notes.
So I'll talk about that later, but it is really crazy and it is really weird when you think about a bird crawling around on the all four.
It feels very dinosaur.
It feels very like Morgan Freeman dinosaurs.
Super wild.
Their sound, like the call they make is kind of a cross between like a honk and a bark.
It's sort of grunty too.
It kind of sounds, sometimes it sounds like a crow, like a caw sound and sometimes it sounds more like a goose, but we'll go ahead and play an example of that here.
And their conservation status is least concern.
So that's pretty cool.
I was actually, I think I just sometimes expect birds that are so outlandish and crazy to always be on the endangered species.
So I was surprised, happily surprised to see that they were of least concerned.
They don't actually know how many numbers there are, but they're fairly easy to find where you are supposed to find them and so scientists are not concerned.
Okay.
They nest in dense lowland forests and swamps or like wetland areas.
The wetlands persist.
I literally put in my notes, the wetlands persist.
So they are located in dense lowland forests in primarily South America, like central northern South America, specifically, and all of them are year-round populations.
So no migrations happening there.
The wetlands do persist, which to me feels insane.
Once again, I'm surprised by the wetlands. Always be.
I will always be.
I think they just show up where you least expect them.
And I'm not saying that I think South America doesn't have them.
I thought only Florida had them.
No, no.
I just, like, didn't expect them to show up as often.
I feel like they've showed up in every episode we've talked about birds so far.
They do seem kind of pivotal for most birds.
And I'm wondering too, if everywhere just has a wetland, but probably not deserts, but Colorado has deserts and wetlands and forests.
So does South America.
That's a good point.
I think I just need a geography lesson and a topography lesson, probably, because I am just constantly, I'm constantly surprised by the wetlands.
So they actually specifically need the wetlands because they build their nests over water.
So if you recall the claws that I asked you to talk about, which how could you forget the claws?
They basically build their nests over the water like right over.
They find branches so that when danger comes and a parent isn't around, the babies can just oops, drop right into the water, swim away, and then they can crawl back up into a tree and find their nest again.
So they literally use these squads, they like, sorry, it's just the craziest thing.
They're like, oh, no, predator, they jump in the water, swim away.
Find a tree. Their claws.
Yeah.
Find a tree, climb up it and go back to their nest while their parent is out.
Yeah, and not only that, but the babies are also the only ones that can swim.
The adults are never seen swimming.
What?
Like, never.
It's so perplexing.
And also, imagine seeing a baby bird climb a tree.
Also, how do they build their nest if they don't swim?
So, interestingly, the way that they so it's on a branch, but it's over the water.
So they don't need to be in the water to build it.
It's like a branch that hangs over it.
And the nest is actually made out of mostly sticks and they're like flat sticks that they just find and they kind of, it's almost like a plat, it's called a platform nest, so it doesn't really have like a hump.
It's kind of just like a bunch of sticks in almost a flat platform is a great word to describe it, which is how it's described.
And it's not in the water.
It's just over the water.
So the parent or the both of the parents can go around and collect all the sticks and then bring them to the platform.
But then they don't go in the water to get the sticks.
Fascinating, right?
Also, they both build the nest together, the male and the female.
Cute.
Yeah.
So I have no idea.
The claws fall off, they stop swimming, they become just like completely different birds later on, which is really, really crazy.
Most of the nests are half a foot to a foot long or 20 to 38 centimeters in diameter.
So pretty big bird.
I mean, they're tip to tip over a foot long, so their nests aren't huge for that.
Their eggs are like an off-white color with a small reddish and brown like lavender spots on them.
They're pretty cute.
They kind of look like when everyone got into like sponge painting their Easter eggs and like they had little like spongy dabs all over them.
They're pretty cute.
I also wrote side note, I don't celebrate Easter, but I missed dying eggs and someone making a scavenger hunt for me.
I think every year around Easter.
I'm like, it would be fun to dye some eggs.
We talked about doing Easter together, but we didn't.
You and I did?
I don't remember this at.
Yeah, we talk about it in our 1st episode.
Would you dye eggs and hunt them with me?
Okay.
We'd have to hide them, I guess, to hunt them.
Maybe Stuart would hide them for us.
Stuart and Chris.
Enrichment activity.
We have to go...
Okay, guys, go find your eggs.
No, but truly, I don't like, I don't want to celebrate Easter at all, but I do miss arts and crafts with eggs.
I love eggs.
And I love a scavenger hunt, but I'm way...
I'm not going to make one myself.
I know the answers.
So I'm going to make me a scavenger hunt.
Do it.
Anyway, their typical clutch size is about one to 3 eggs, but but huge butt and also another strange, interesting thing here.
They did find a couple of nests that had 4 to 7 in the nest, and they found that it was always eggs from 2 different females.
Always.
Always.
Technically speaking, these birds are.. Monogamous.
So they have one core pair, but they work in structures where they like help each other and they're in like breeding groups.
So in these particular circumstances, they actually think that what was happening is that they were 2 monogamous couples who were like helping each other out and sharing a nest and sharing like care of the babies, which is really, really crazy.
That's really cool Isn't it?
I thought that was really cool.
It's like not quite, it's almost like community.
Like, you know, when they say it takes takes a village, it takes a village.
Thank you.
I was like, that's not correct.
It takes a village to raise a child.
I feel like Hudson's actually do that.
And it's a lot of like core breeding pairs that are in a group and they kind of defend off their territory and it seems like they take care of the others young.
Really, really interesting.
There's no specific courtship display, but they do have a series of like pre-nesting displays.
And so basically the male of the breeding pair will fly to different nesting sites, carrying a stick, and then he crouches and shakes his like crazy crest thing and it makes it all puffed up.
And then if the female is into it, then she also puts her like crest up and then she shakes her head back.
And then while they're building their nest together, they actually mate.
So while they're like prepping their home together, they're like, now we're gonna make babies.
And then this is their next.
Like they're just they're just building with a nest sticks.
Yeah, they basically they're like, I'm into you.
I'm thinking this could be our nesting spot.
Okay.
Shake, shake, shake.
The girl female is like, shake, shake, shake. Into that.
They start building the nest somewhere in the middle of building the nest.
They mate, get ready to have eggs.
And then they finish building the nest and then she has the eggs.
So it's like a very cooperative home family building system.
Yeah, I feel like they kind of have it on lock.
It feels it feels very equal, which I think is cute.
I put cute future planning.
No, it does not.
It's considered a cooperative breeding bird, so that was the word I was looking for.
So they have monogamous core pairs.
And then they can have up to 6 other helper birds. Which are not inbreeding pairs. Commune.
No, it is genuinely like a commune.
It's more than 3 is rare.
And when they were able to identify the helperbirds, like when they were able to find them through lineage, like people who were watching these populations for a while, they were almost always the children of the last breeding group.
So like if the parents had one to 3 eggs, and then they hatched, but they weren't quite at the point of breeding season, they would be the helpers of the same core pair for that season until they became of breeding age.
Wow.
Is that on the great?
It's just like a very interesting thing.
And so, I don't know.
I was just like, I've never heard of any of this before, but I also put a note, literally older child behavior because like, you're the older kid and then you're like, your parents are like, I'm going to bring in new kids, and then suddenly you have to like take over and help build the nest and make sure that like nobody eats the baby while they're foraging, you know?
Damn, you know that life.
You don't know that life because you're an only child.
This is crazy.
You said, that's so sad.
You're an only child and I'm the oldest of 6 if you include my step siblings. Think you should.
I do.
So we have 2 really, very, very different experiences, but we could share if you're interested.
Yeah.
Okay.
Great.
You're now the oldest sister.
Perfect.
Oh, you have a lot of friends now, though.
Anna just looked at me and silently shook her head and like looked really sad.
That's not true though.
I spend a lot of time with you and you have a lot of friends.
You have plans all the time.
I'm a medium amount of friends.
You have a very good amount of friends.
I agree with that.
I agree with that, but we don't have the, what did I call it?
Cooperative breeding, but also we're not having kids.
We do when it comes to our dog.
Yeah, that's true, actually.
That's huge point.
No.
You watch mine. Yours.
Yeah.
That's the agreement.
Uh-huh.
I like it.
Can we do it with?
With several of my friends.
Yeah.
I love that.
And by it, I mean, watch their dogs.
Incredible.
Incredible, incredible.
Okay.
Migration, like I said, only year round populations, they're known for being super territorial, actually, and chasing down intruders, but only when they're birds.
Oh, if they are intruders that are predators.
Not at all.
I'll get to that later So they're known for being very territorial within their breeding groups.
So if another, um, like, Hotsin was to come in, like another male and try to, like, come in and, like, over dominate, they might even get into a kind of display, which is, like, kind of generally wings out, you know, doing that same puffed up type thing that we see birds do all the time.
But they also, if it is contested by another male, so not just like pushed into that space, but if it is contested by another male, they have a face off, which is called an aerial battle, where I quote, the individuals fly at each other from 3 to 5 meters away, collide midair, and peck and claw at each other.
Birds will usually fall back into the vegetation still locked in battle before they separate.
So like a chicken fight.
Yeah, literally, except midair.
And they can't fly very well.
We haven't talked about that yet, but they can't fly very well.
So the fact that they're like going in the air and just kind of like body slamming each other and then suddenly falling down into the ground is a lot of energy for them, to be honest, because they're not big flyers.
Strangely, though, if a predator is in the mist, so not another Hudson or another bird, they actually will just like retreat back into the forest instead of protecting the nest, and they'll just kind of like make a hissing sound while they leave the babies kind of like out in the open, which is a little bit upsetting.
It's all fun in community until a jaguar comes on or whatever lives in South America.
I didn't write that down.
But most of their predation is other birds.
So, um, harpy eagles and Oh, you've showed me them.
Oh, they're insane.
They look like a fake bird.
A lot of birds look like fake birds, but harpy eagles look like they are wearing a mask at a masquerade ball and they might be the evil person who's going to kill someone and then there's a whole murder mystery that's going to come at the end.
That's so true They're really cool.
I'm obsessed with them.
And I meant that all in a good way. To be clear.
So yeah, if something comes into their midst that they don't think they can fight off, they just retreat and make crazy noises and hopefully that helps.
Their diet.
Another new word alert.
Maybe not for you, but for me, it was falivorous.
Do you know fullibris?
New to me.
Okay.
Basically, faliverous means that they eat 100% leaves.
Oh, I was gonna guess full of livers.
You...
Well, so they're pretty stinky, so that's not like a terrible guess.
I think you were going for like a, whatever that is when it's like a word that sounds like another word.
You were going for that.
This is more like Latin roots.
Mm-hmm.
So say it again.
What type of life?
Deliverous.
What type of leaves?
That I don't know.
I mean, just leaves.
No, yeah, it's leaves.
So it's mostly young leaves and buds of flowers.
But it is like 100% plant material, which is pretty rare. A bird.
What?
What?
I'm so sorry I don't remember what you said.
I said they don't like adults.
Adults?
Yeah, adult leaves.
Oh, I was like, I'm so sorry.
It's okay.
Why is that different from an herbivore?
I think because herbivore includes anything that is plant.
Okay.
So probably would also include specific vegetation.
Yeah.
And apparently there is like a level of different birds who do eat leaves like geese also eat leaves and like vegetation, but they don't strictly eat leaves and vegetation.
They do insects and other things.
So the Hotin or the Watson specifically eats leaves, young leaves and buds.
They need them to be young.
They have to stay young.
And not only that, but they actually don't drink water because they get most of their water from eating.
Yeah.
So not only do they not swim.
They just don't drink water.
Yeah.
They're very strange birds.
They kind of look like they don't drink water.
They need a little bit more hydrant.
The leaves are not doing it for you.
No, no, no. Skin around the eyes.
I just mean, like, you know people who don't really drink water.
Oh, you mean like people who only drink that. Really hardcore.
And like, that's kind of what they look like.
They do okay.
I see.
I thought you meant the skin didn't look hydrated, but now I'm getting what you're going where it's like people who like slam Red Bulls all day long.
They do kind of look like that.
Yeah, 100%.
Yeah.
That is an interesting thing about them.
They forage basically anytime of day and also at night.
If there is enough moonlight, they will go out and they will forage at moonlight, but only for about 4 hours a day.
So they kind of take turns and like move around between like who goes and who stays at the nest so that there's people, not people, so there's birds always around.
They're like, hey, you, forest or men.
Come watch my baby.
They probably would if they could talk.
And so we thought we learned all the weirdest things about this bird, but it just gets weirder.
So let's talk about their goddamn gut and that stanky, stinky smell.
Yes, please, tell us why they're smelling.
You've been yearning for it Okay.
I am going to be really honest here.
Like I said, this was a lot of scientific info.
I went a little bit over my head, because the wording was, it was starting to use isms that I was not familiar with.
But I did a lot of research and I think I've simplified it enough.
So basically they have an enlarged crop organ, which is basically where the food is stored before digestion.
Okay.
And because they have this, like, enlarged section, they also have what is called 4 gut fermentation, and they are the only bird, period.
The only bird to have this.
Every other animal that has this is a quote unquote ruminant mammal.
And no, I did not look up what that means, but it's kind of like cows.
Okay.
So that is literally why they smell, is because they are fermenting the leaves inside their giant crop.
Wow.
Yeah.
And no one really knows why.
Nobody knows if it's like a evolutionary thing that helps ward off predators.
There are some scientists that speculate that like being stinky helps them not want to be eaten as much, which is helpful for them.
I suppose that could be true.
I think that the forest in general can be kind of stinky.
So like, not totally sure about that.
Or if it's simply just bad pipes.
But either way, they are known as being a stinky bird.
And when people get into their vicinity, you know pretty much immediately because you can smell them.
And they're in groups.
And it smells different than a cow.
Yeah, my understanding is it smells like manure.
So not the cow, but the cow poop.
Right.
The bad part.
Right.
That's what the bird smells like.
Okay.
Yeah.
So you know.
Very very quickly.
But the other reason you might know that a Hotson is in the area. Is that they have underdeveloped wings and like chest muscles and so they can't fly and they're known actually for being really clumsy and just kind of falling around the forest because they're quite large and they live in kind of dense vegetation.
And so if you can't smell them, you'll probably hear them because they're pretty loud and they're just trying to make it through the forest, but they're not super agile because they're birds and they have 2 legs and they're just trying their best.
And so they're known for being like kind of like clomping through the forest and being pretty easy to identify, which I thought was also really, really fun.
That's hilarious Yeah, their food also weighs too much.
So they basically just give up flying to eat.
So when they do fly.
It's for very short periods, but also it's because they like need to digest and that takes up a lot of energy and a lot of their like body space.
They got it ferment and leaves are heavy when it comes to like what birds needs.
And they're eating a lot of it.
Like there's a lot in there that is fermenting and moving through.
So another just like, I love thinking about like a stinky, clumsy bird.
I'm just like really makes me laugh.
It sounds like a drunk uncle or something.
Okay, yeah, we're going to talk about pop culture and so this will be interesting.
I'm interested to hear what you have to say about this because I have 2 people. Like celebrities that I have put up for them.
Okay, but I'm not sure how you'll feel.
Can't wait.
Okay, I have a couple more facts and then we're done.
There is no actual lifespan data on how long the Hudson lives.
Don't totally know why, but they believe that they live about 10 to 13 years just given like general like population evaluations and kind of seeing how they're doing.
And the last and most mysterious fact about this bird is that no one knows its true evolutionary history.
So you would ask me earlier before we started this.
Is it a pheasant?
And guess what?
Scientists have no idea.
What?
It is considered an evolutionary orphan, and every single type of bird that you could possibly think of has been put up as like a potential connection, but nobody really knows what part of the family tree they belong to.
They're just like, I don't know.
So they literally just kind of like live off on their own island right now while they try to figure it out.
No.
Because there's just too many weird things.
Could be a pheasant, could be a dinosaur.
Could be, who knows?
There's a lot of things that make it seem like it's not a pheasant.
Besides, it's general appearance, it doesn't seem to have much in common.
No, I actually have a quote from Dr. Bobby Focitis.
I think that's how you pronounce it.
And he said, oh, you know about him?
No.
Okay.
We love him anyway.
He had a lot to say about this, and I actually have 2 quotes from him to end out my facts about the Hotes and the all about the Hotesen episode, my stinky, stinky bird.
He said, some say it's like a pheasant, some say more of a cuckoo, and more have settled on it being the last living member of a distant lineage that split from the rest of birds around 65000000 years ago.
It's just a prehistoric jungle weirdo that looks like a punk rock pheasant smells like a compost bin and digests food like a cow.
Wow.
That's the quote.
That's such a good quote.
It's such a good quote, and it's also, it wraps up the Hotson perfectly.
It does.
A punk rock pheasant smells like a compost bin and digest food like a cow.
Yeah.
That's if I was going to describe it to you in one sentence.
That's the perfect sentence.
Yeah.
So that's the Hudson.
How do you feel?
Were you prepared?
I mean, I thought I was because I knew some of the things.
Just the stinky.
And it was stinky.
And I had seen a picture of it because I drew a little sketch of it. Back in the day when we were originally talking about doing the episode.
But It had so much more surprises in score than I could ever anticipate.
The claws.
That's so interesting.
The the fact that they just fall off.
The whole...
That's honestly probably the most interesting thing about the bird that also looks like it's a fascinating looking bird and smelling bird.
But the most interesting thing to me is the family systems and like how everything works and...
It none of it really makes sense, but.. Like it.
But also, I think that's why there's so many of these different things that you could connect back.
So one of the things I learned while I was doing this research is that they're not the only birds that have a wing claw, but they are one of the only birds that has a wing claw that is like fully functional, like claws, like like a hand almost. And one that falls off in the way that it does.
So we'll have to talk a little more when we come up to another bird, but like it's still a very unique thing that they have this.
And that's why it's been so difficult, I think, to connect back their evolutionary history because they're like, I don't know.
Yeah.
Like, we don't, it could be here, it could be here.
It could be here.
Like they can't really figure out exactly where they came from, which I think is the most interesting part. Super interesting.
Because the fact that it could have been just like a split lineage from all the other birds, 65000000 years ago and we kind of have like a.. The closest relative to a dinosaur?
To a dinosaur.
Yeah.
I think it's like one of the cooler things.
And so when I was actually on birds of the world when you, there's a section for priorities of future research and that is the priority of future research is like trying to figure out where they belong in the family tree of birds.
Okay.
Which seems like a fun job.
Absolutely.
That also has probably so much reading and looking at bones.
Yeah.
But the only ones with foregut fermentation.
How do you even connect that back?
Because I'm trying to think of a crop.
Even.
No, I feel like, because chickens have crops.
But not for gut fermentation.
No.
And chickens eat rocks to help them digest, which we could talk about when we do chickens.
Yeah.
Because so do alligators sometimes.
Oh, to help them digest.
Because they don't have teeth, so sometimes they swallow things that help them like mix the food around in their stomachs.
What?
Alligators don't have teeth?
Oh, sorry, you know, chickens don't have teeth.
But alligators, I think they just rip chunks of their feet. Don't chew.
You feel me?
Yeah, because that'd be that's a good point.
The alligators are gumming it.
I have met an alligator that doesn't have teeth.
Not in, well, it was in person, but we didn't meet.
We meant virtually...
Yeah, it was...
We had a Zoom meeting.
We had a zoom, eh?
Was real cool.
No, it was like at a sanctuary, like a gator sanctuary or something and it was pretty sad to see him without teeth, but...
The alligators do have to clear the record so I don't have to do a connect corrections corner next week.
Alligators definitely have teeth.
Anyway, to move into our fun section.
I only have one question because the Hudson is so strange that I honestly, I couldn't even begin to come up with a question that could go around what this bird does.
No, no, no.
But who is the Hotson in pop culture?
So this was really hard because I don't necessarily want to call people stinky, but I did look up who stinky celebrities were and I didn't like any of them because none of them were like flashy enough.
It was just like Matthew McConaughey.
And I was like, he's not a punk rock pheasant.
Apparently he hasn't worn deodorant in like 50 years.
That just seems like a weird hippie thing.
Yeah, there's a lot of like random rich men who are like, no deodorant for whatever reason, and they're like, I like how I smell, and it's like, well, you've gotten used to it.
Nose blindness is a thing, but that's fine.
So I'm putting up to you, 2 people, one male, one female.
To be fair.
The 1st one.
Fairness is important.
Post Malone.
Don't think about stinky. Think about all the other stuff.
I mean, punk rock pheasant?
Yeah.
It kind of feels like a vibe.
It really does.
I could see him stumbling around the forest.
He's like a little bit clumsy, but it's like endearing.
Like all the tattoos and the funky looks and stuff.
Yeah.
I feel like Post Malone kind of makes sense.
And then my other one is Gwen Stefani, but specifically, no doubt, era, Gwen Stefani, not now era, Christian Grifter, Gwen Stefani.
We're taking her out of the picture for that.
That version of her is stinky.
But the punk rock, no doubt, Gwen Stefani.
I like that.
I like that.
I think she had a mohawk at one point.
Um she's a sellout.
Yeah.
Huge.
The biggest sellout.
Well, it's just sad because I thought she and Blake were cute, but I thought they like weren't the way they are.
So it was sad.
But...
I think Post Malone is...
Palos Malone.
Hello, Smalo, yeah.
I don't know.
I can see Gwen Stefani.
But I feel like I have to squint, whereas with Post Malone, it's like, that makes sense.
Okay.
Okay.
I'll take that.
I did put up 2 because I wanted to have, I feel like we've given a lot of male representation to the birds.
We've had a couple, but it felt like it was being male dominated.
So I wanted to throw up too, but I do think Post Malone is a better fit for this particular bird.
And I don't know that he's stinky, should be clear.
No.
And I'm not making allegations of stinkiness.
This is specifically everything else.
Do I think his gut is probably not doing its best?
Probably not.
Although, isn't he sober now?
Did you make that up?
I might have made that up completely.
I'm not going to like that.
That would be very exciting.
No judgment.
Like, people should absolutely do what they want to do with their bodies.
Totally.
However, be safe.
Yeah, I want him around a long time.
Yeah, be respectful.
Sad stuff happened to artists.
So true.
Yeah.
But anyway, that's it.
That's the Hotson.
I could have talked about this bird probably for so much longer.
I had so many things that I really needed to pair back on notes about, and I really suggest you get a birds of the world account, if you can afford it because...
It's fascinating.
If you love birds, you will never find anywhere that has more information in one spot and it's all linked back to different articles than different peer reviewed journals where you can find the information.
I mean, I was really in the depths of Hudson research and I will say this feels like a bird I could see pretty easily.
As long as we got to South America, Northern, Central, South America, it sounds like finding them is actually like, it's more like they find you.
And I love that about them.
Although, like in the jungle of South America, just hoping for somebody to come stumbling down the road.
Yeah, you just like hear something crashing through and then it's like, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Oh no.
And then you see a baby climbing up a tree and suddenly you're in Hodson world.
Yeah.
That's how I picture it.
That sounds amazing.
It does sound amazing, doesn't it?
Yeah.
Yeah.
One day.
One day.
But until next time.
Stay cool, bird boy.