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The cost & courage of caring - stories that spark resilience.
Today, we're talking about the
question nobody wants to say out
loud.
When parents age and need care,
what do their adult children
actually owe them?
Elizabeth Miller is a caregiver,
veteran podcaster, and founder of
the Happy Healthy Caregiver.
Let's start here.
Elizabeth Miller, welcome to the
Caregiver's Podcast.
We're really happy you're here
with us today.
Thanks for having me, Mark.
I'm ready for a great conversation
today.
Well, so am I.
So let's get right into it.
Elizabeth, with all your
experience in reflecting on what
you've been through and what your
listeners have been through,
do adult children actually owe
their parents long-term care, or
is it a choice of theirs?
I think it has to be a choice
because I think our first
responsibility is to make sure
that we are caring for ourselves,
you know, both financially,
physically, mentally.
And while we, you know, there is
the Ten Commandments of honor thy
mother and father,
I think that's, that's, it's gone
into a slippery slope like nobody
has ever seen these days.
And it's just not sustainable for
where we are as a society.
Why is that slope so slippery?
Well, I think there's a bunch of
different things related to that.
You know, I think where we're
living in this day and age is much
different than where my parents
were.
You know, I never even knew my
grandparents, you know, the, well,
that's not true.
I had one living grandparent until
I was in college, but three out of
my four grandparents were deceased
and I never had any kind of a
relationship with them.
Times have changed.
You know, we've got technology and
medication with people living
longer than ever before with
chronic comorbidities.
We have, you know, a healthcare
system that is fragmented and
broken in many ways.
And, you know, in the olden days,
you know, we used to keep our
patients in the hospitals longer
and professionals were treating
them.
Nowadays, they are being pushed
out into, back into the home
environment.
And it's an expectation that the
family is going to fill the gap on
that.
I just had a friend of mine, in
fact, that sadly her mother-in-law
passed away just a couple days
ago.
But last Wednesday, so not even a
week ago, had a fall and was
admitted to the ER and they were
going to send her home.
And she's passed since then.
You know, things were so much more
advanced that luckily for this
family caregiver, she knew how to
advocate and to push back on that
and say,
Well, no, we're not ready.
We're not ready at the home to
take her on.
We need to get some things in
place.
But that's just one example of
many of how people in this family
caregiving role are being expected
to do so much more.
And I think the other thing we got
to think about that too, Mark, is
that, you know, the common state
of life now is that we,
an average American family,
married family with kids has to
work two jobs, you know, both
sides.
And so that was not the case for
me growing up.
My mom was a stay-at-home mom and
was managing a lot of those
things.
So it's not just one thing.
I'm sure you probably have some
insights to things to add to that
too.
Well, I mean, I think I've heard
sort of an echo throughout some of
the conversations that I've had
that it's just sort of sprung on
people.
And there is no, there is no
midlife sort of preparation class
for caregiving, if you will.
We all go through the marriage
prep class or whatever, but you
don't have that midlife sort of,
you got to get ready for caring
for yourselves, maybe each other.
But also, you know, ask yourself,
are you ready to, what are you
ready to take on for extended
family?
And it's not, it hasn't crept up
as being any sort of curriculum on
the, on the, on the scene, so to
speak.
But it's probably something a lot
of people could benefit from
because I think people are caught
off guard.
Yeah, and they're caught off guard
and they've already got a full
plate that they're managing.
I know for me as a sandwich
generation caregiver, you know,
back in 2014, 2015, when I got
started with all of this and that,
you know, I had two kids that were
in middle school.
They were in travel sports.
My husband was also working.
We both were traveling a bit for
our work.
And on both sides, our parents
were needing care.
And so we were simultaneously
squeezed and feeling really
isolated and overwhelmed and
frustrated and learning on the
job, you know, because when we
talked about work, we talked about
healthcare, but also like our
school systems have changed.
You know, there's a lot being
pushed back on parents through our
sports have changed.
You know, there's an expectation
of what we're doing for our
children these days.
So all of this really comes to a
breaking point where what we have
in place right now is not
sustainable for the average family
caregiver.
One of the 63 million in the U.S.
now.
Those are the recent numbers.
So let's go back a little bit,
Elizabeth.
When your dad died and everything
shifted, for you, did caregiving
feel like a choice or was it
something you almost inherited?
Well, some people have a
caregiving event that happens
overnight for them, you know, a
fall or a stroke or an accident of
some sort or diagnosis.
For me and my family, and I'm one
of six kids, I also have a brother
that was born with a developmental
intellectual disability and has
autism spectrum disorder.
So needs care as well.
But for us, we saw a mudslide
coming at us, frankly, with my
parents, that we could see that
their level of care and what they
were expecting from us was
continuing to increase.
And, you know, we were trying to
tag team and take turns of helping
out where we can.
They were living in their dream
home, you know, six hours from
closest family.
So we were doing a lot of this
remotely or having to drop
everything and run to their aid.
And we had tried, you know, some
mini interventions over the years
to try to get them to, you know,
move closer to family, to make it
more of a sustainable life for
them.
And they had been very clear about
it, that they were, they didn't
use the words aging in place, but
they said, we are staying where we
are.
And as our children, we expect you
to help us.
But there's a moment, though,
where, you know, distance is just
too much.
And that's that moment when
caregiving becomes bathing and
toileting, changing soil clothes.
Should that be the child's job by
default or should parents actually
plan for their own care in this
day and age?
I think, you know, we have, again,
a responsibility on our own.
I know for me, like living what I
lived through with my parents,
going through it now with my
in-laws, helping my brother, that,
you know, I'm grateful that my
parents had put some things in
place to financially take care of
themselves.
And to financially kind of set up
my brother for success.
But we do have that responsibility
of our own to do that.
So I know for me, I don't want my
children to be, have to do all of
those things that you described.
And so that is why that I'm
encouraging family caregivers and
living it myself.
Like, how do I infuse more health?
How do I infuse more happiness in
my life so that I can, gosh darn
it, do the best job I can possibly
do to not put my family in a
similar situation?
You know, we're imperfect, though,
right?
Like we do, we all have kind of
our things that we're managing.
But I think, you know, it's a
responsibility on us to put those
things in place.
I know my children at the time
said, hey, what you're doing right
here with your parents, we don't
want that.
We don't want that to happen.
We want to have you around.
We want to travel.
We want to do these things
together.
And so it's a conversation, and
it's definitely one that my
husband and I are aligned on, that
we prioritize our health.
We prioritize our happiness.
We try to set an example for our
children.
And hopefully that has a ripple
effect on the future in a positive
way.
But I would not expect my kids to
drop everything, to forego their
dreams, and go all in on caring
for my husband, Jason, and I.
And I think my parents didn't
realize at the time when they said
that some of those things, like
how far it was actually going to
go and how much we were going to
actually need to do.
And, you know, I have no regrets.
Like we look back, my siblings and
I, that we're in the care arena.
Now they're not all in the care
arena.
That's something that's very
common in families, too.
But we don't have regrets.
Like we're doing, and we still
don't.
Like with my brother, we're
really, you know, the four of us
at least are aligned on trying to
put a long-term care plan in place
for him that is going to set him
up for success.
And that's the best we can do.
It's a partnership, Mark.
Like I almost like the term care
partner better than I like the
term caregiver because I think
it's clear then that it's a
partnership.
You've got to meet me halfway.
There's things and
responsibilities that you have to
put in place as a care recipient
and that I'm willing to do as your
care partner.
And I want this to be true for
you.
I want you to live a happy and
healthy life as well, but not at
the expense that I'm going to, you
know, continue to burn out, which
is what I was doing.
I think that's brilliant.
I love care partner.
Be my care partner.
We should get a T-shirt made.
Just be my care partner.
The hardest thing, Mark, I love
it, too.
But the thing is, it's already
hard enough for people to take on
that role as caregiver.
And so I feel like if we change
the terminology, it's just going
to throw people off even more.
And I want them to own the role.
It's a reluctant role that we take
on, but I want them to own it so
that then doors start to open for
them.
They start to see the community
that's available for them.
They start to see the resources,
the respite, and the support.
It's out there.
It's also very fragmented the way
our health care system is.
You've spoken to a lot of people
over the years.
But is there a prevalent idea that
having kids is almost like an
insurance policy for old age?
And I mean, if that were the case,
could that truly be fair to kids?
No, it's not.
And I think, you know, we're
seeing the decline in younger
families that are delaying having
children or not having children at
all for various reasons.
But that is not why you should go
into having kids.
There's other plans in place.
You know, there's other things
that we can do.
I hope that's not happening.
I hope so, too.
I hope so, too.
So for someone hearing about this
all for the first time, let's go
in a bit more detail.
What exactly is a sandwich
generation caregiver?
So a sandwich generation caregiver
is somebody that is squeezed in
the middle of caring for older
adults or aging parents and
children at the same time.
It could even be expanded to be
grandparents or grandchildren.
And sometimes you'll hear that
referred to as a club sandwich.
The point is, is that there's
somebody in the middle who's
feeling that squeeze.
And I used to kind of remember the
old Wendy's commercial of where's
the meat?
Like, where's the me?
Where am I fitting into this
equation as being this person who
is squeezed?
And I had this little cartoon that
I found that really just described
how I felt, like this push.
And before I even really owned the
term caregiver for me, Mark, I
identified more as somebody who
was in the sandwich generation,
who was feeling this squeeze, who
was feeling this impossible pull
of all of the different directions
that people were trying to just
take little pieces away of me.
And having to really put some
systems and strategies in place so
that I could find a way to feel
like myself again.
Take me back to your hardest days
of caregiving.
What did they feel like and what
happened?
Oh, my goodness.
You know, it's the working
sandwich generation years.
They're all kind of hard in
different ways.
Like, I would say what I'm living
through right now is hard,
frankly.
Like, I'm an entrepreneur who's,
you know, responsible for my own
income and also caring for my
brother who is on a different path
with his disabilities and does not
want to take, you know, advice
from his little sister.
So there are certainly a lot of
behavioral challenges with him
where, you know, he's just
constantly throwing mean asteroids
at me and so having to shield from
that while also, you know, meeting
my deadlines and making sure that
my events are happening and my
partnerships are.
But back in the sandwich
generation work years, you know, I
wrote a blog post about a day in
the life of a sandwich generation
caregiver because it wasn't really
until you kind of write it down
and you see it.
And I think anybody reading it
would be like, oh, my gosh, like,
look at all of these different,
like, inputs and outputs of what
is going on in her day.
And, you know, and carving out
some time for myself look like
getting up, you know, at 5, 530 in
the morning when nobody else
needed me and going to the gym and
working out.
Sitting in the sauna with a
10-minute meditation, showering
and being at my desk, you know,
hopefully before my boss, you
know, got in and then running into
the work day and tackling
different calls and things that
were on my caregiving list and
going through work almost felt
like respite in some ways.
You know, I knew how to do that
job.
I worked in IT and working with
other people.
I liked that, you know, I could
have lunch and sometimes I was
using my lunch break to do
caregiving related tasks or to
check in with my mom.
Dividing and conquer with my
husband on what was going on and
where the kids needed to go after
school and how we were going to
get fed.
And then some nights I was going
over to my mom's and helping her
manage different things and
tackling some things off of her
to-do list.
And falling in bed, you know, at
night, like 10, 30, 11 o'clock and
rinsing and repeating that over
and over and over again.
Do you have a hardest memory?
The one that just sort of stands
out, maybe a turning point or the
one that sort of lingers in your
memory where it really forced you
to have to miss things with your
kids because of it?
Oh, yeah, there was, there's been
several of those, you know,
there's been times where I've
missed holidays, where I've needed
to be with my parents.
You know, there were times that I
had to run out of a conference at
work so that I could go to my
dad's aid and he was, the decision
was being put on hospice.
And, you know, my mom begging for
my dad one more time to try to be
intubated one last time.
You know, there was the kids, I
missed my son's birthday for, you
know, I missed my daughter's first
day of high school.
So, yeah, not just one, many.
Many.
You know, when you start
caregiving for a parent, there's
usually that sort of one moment
that ends the old relationship
forever.
Like you just enter this whole new
zone.
What was the task that sort of
crossed that line of privacy and
dignity and made you think
nothing's normal or we'll ever be
the same again?
Oh, my gosh.
I mean, we, my, I have two sisters
and we, we joke and laugh about it
because that is a way of kind of
coping with some of these, the
places you just never thought you
would go.
My mom was morbidly obese.
She had a lot of different things
going on, but she had almost like
a yeast infection or something
kind of between her layers of her
body and in her private section.
And so we had to have a whole
process during one of our family
holidays of, we called it
marinating mom.
This is, this is, you know, this
is kind of the way that we, we
handled it.
If you're not a caregiver, you're
not going to kind of understand
this, but where we had to, you
know, put, soak these towels into
certain liquids and, you know,
treat those areas and kind of pat
her all up.
And then we had to let her
marinate for a little bit in it.
And then we had to go back and dry
her with a hairdryer.
And it was this process that
happened, you know, multiple times
a day.
Like we'd be out like cooking a
holiday meal or dinner and putting
a puzzle together with the kids or
wrapping gifts and then having to
like go back and marinate mom, you
know?
And it's, it's, it's, you just
can't kind of make it, make that
stuff up at all.
Or, you know, she had, she was on
a Lasix pill as well, a water pill
that really was debilitating for
her to be able to leave.
And she had mobility issues.
And so many summer family
vacations, my parents had a
beautiful lake house up in
Michigan that my older sister now
lives in.
And, you know, we'd be playing
games with my, you know, around
the table and my mom's on a
portable john, like sitting there
playing games.
And, you know, you, we, we brought
friends up with us, you know, it's
just like, you can't even, it's
like a comedy sitcom almost where,
you know, and we're just kind of
joking.
My mom had a sense of humor,
luckily.
And so one of my, our close friend
was like, it feels like we're
playing games in the bathroom.
And I'm like, we kind of are, you
know, it's just, you can't make it
up.
We would say that very often.
And we would have a text thread
among us about, you know, you're a
caregiver when, and, you know, I
remember a time that I was coming
home from work and my parents were
staying at my house.
And I was always envious of the,
of the families where their
parents would come to town and
they would do chores and like help
other, their families.
Like your parents are doing what
for you?
Like I did not have those kind of
parents.
They were, they were more work,
you know, when they would come to
my house and their pills would be
everywhere.
They dropped their pills.
I'm worried about my kids picking
them up.
But one time the, they called me
from work and my dad was on a
blood thinner and he had scratched
something on his back and it
started bleeding.
And my mom, you know, with her
mobility issues, they're trying to
kind of care for themselves as
much as they can.
He calls me, he says, Elizabeth,
you know, when are you going to be
home?
I said, I'm on my way.
Okay, well, you know, I, I'm
bleeding pretty profusely, but
your mom has, you know, stopped it
for now with a, with a poise pad
on my back.
And you're just like going into
this situation from work and
you're like, this is what I'm
doing after work today.
Like, how did we get here?
Yeah.
More than you bargained for,
right, Mark?
Yeah.
With that question.
Yeah.
I think, you know, people have
this idea that, well, you know,
eventually I'll just sort of have
to help out a little bit.
But very often, if you don't
become a caregiver overnight,
there's certainly a very rapid
ramp towards caregiving.
And it's, it's a steep one, almost
like a nuclear blast.
But when that happens, like what,
what's the first thing that breaks
when you come to that realization
that nothing's going to be the
same?
Is it like you have this sort of
flashback in your life, like
nothing is going to be the same?
Or do you, do you enter almost
like a period of mourning for
what, how you have to rewrite the
whole script of your life?
It's a grief.
I mean, these are, these are
griefs that we have that, you
know, and sometimes they're gut
punch kind of grief.
And sometimes it's like a little
paper cut kind of a grief.
But, you know, I remember my kids
saying to me one time, like they
had a day off of school and they
were going to spend it with one of
their best friends and their
grandparents.
And they said, you know, their
grandparents are going to take us
to, you know, whatever it was,
Chuck E.
Cheese or Chick-fil-A.
And, you know, why don't we have
grandparents like that?
You know, and I was like, well,
you have great aunts and uncles
and lots of cousins and all these
things.
But I knew that my parents were, I
thought they were unhealthy when I
was, you know, adult kind of in
college.
And it just snowballed throughout
my life, you know, and they, and
I'm not going to say they never
tried to redirect and change and
certainly did try to go to places
and learn healthier habits and,
you know, try the Richard Simmons
workouts or the Gene Font.
Like, but it just, nothing really
ever stuck and they both were kind
of bad for each other in that way.
So I don't, I don't know if that
answers your question, but it's a
grief.
I mean, it's, it's an emotional
grief to kind of be like, but that
was kind of how I reframed it in
my head and for my kids.
It's like, okay, we don't have
this, but we have, you know, all
of this other really amazing stuff
around us.
An entourage who can step in for
sure.
And you can imagine the flip side
of there being no one else and
there are lots of caregivers out
there who have no one else.
Yeah.
And, you know, what struck me is
you said, you know, you, you were
gradually aware, even in college,
that there was a path that was
being walked towards maybe long,
longer term morbidity with
healthcare or health or lifestyle
choices now and health outcomes in
the future.
But what about the individual who
finds out overnight that tomorrow
life is changing 180?
Mm-hmm.
From your experience and speaking
to people, what's that feel like
for those individuals?
And they're the ones who are the
most vulnerable because they have
no sort of preparation for that.
Yeah, I, I, I think all of the,
all of the scenarios are hard.
And so I, I hate to kind of
compare one caregiver's journey to
another because to that, to that
caregiver, that is a really hard,
hard thing.
So I don't want to minimize the,
oh, well, that's harder than this,
or this is harder than that.
Like, it all sucks.
It's all hard.
And it's, it's, it's, um, maybe
there's a little bit more
compassion.
Like, I know for me, I was very
resentful from my parents for, you
know, putting us on this
trajectory.
And, you know, my mom being a
smoker, I got COPD and all of the
things, you know, diabetes and,
and the things that are there.
Whereas maybe somebody who had a
diagnosis overnight or accident
may have a little, may not go
through that, um, anger phase
about it.
Like this person did this to us.
Um, so perhaps a little more
compassion, but I think all of the
scenarios are hard, whether it's
an overnight thing or a mudslide,
um, certainly cognitive.
I mean, you could certainly say
that's a, adds a whole other layer
to things when people have a
cognitive, then you're, you're
losing them before you lose them.
So there's, um, it's, it's a lot,
it's an emotional rollercoaster
all the way around.
Finding the right tools and
strategies to help you in that and
finding your community that gets
you.
Like if that were hopefully the
person who had the overnight
stuff, like they quickly tap into
their community.
Wouldn't it be amazing if their
healthcare provider, um, in places
would help foster that.
And that's something that I would
like to see change is that, you
know, when we go to the hospital,
first of all, it's everything in,
in the doctor's office.
It's all very reactive, but
somehow to say, this has got to be
really hard for you.
You, the person, their primary
person who's helping this, this
individual.
And we, you know, we're going to
do some treatments.
We're going to do this.
But for you, this is a lot on you.
And so these are the things that
we suggest as ways that you can
tap in to process this emotion.
Because a lot of times those
caregivers don't feel that they
can talk to the care recipient and
person.
Like how could, how could they,
how dare they, you know, feel
overwhelmed and all of that when
this other person is doing so much
more and enduring the pain.
And, you know, their whole life
has been uprooted, but all the
feelings are valid.
Absolutely.
And I mean, as, as Kate Washington
recently resonated in some of her
comments is like, it's not just
sufficient anymore to, to sort of
get the proverbial pat on the back
saying, don't forget to take care
of yourself while you're taking
care of your loved ones.
And then off you go.
Yeah.
I, I, you know, I love Kate
Washington, by the way.
I've had her on my podcast as
well.
And I understand she's got a new
book out that I've got to, I've
got to check out.
It's coming out this summer.
Yeah.
So I'm excited about that.
I know that used to frustrate me
when people would say, oh, you
should take care of yourself.
And I call that shitting.
They were shitting on me or you
should be doing this for your
loved one and should be doing
that.
Stop shitting on me.
Stop shitting on me.
Like I'm drowning.
I'm, I'm, do you not see that, you
know, them drowning right here.
But so, and, and, and yet I knew
that if I didn't fix something, I
was going to be on the same path
as my parents and terrified of
that.
And we do hear a lot that, you
know, you should take care of
yourself or put the oxygen mask on
yourself before you care for other
people.
And I didn't love the analogy.
And the reason why I didn't love
it, and I still don't love it, is
that there's not one event that's
happening.
Like when you're in an airplane
and it's turbulence, you've got,
first of all, you've prepared for
it.
You know, you've learned what
you're supposed to do in it.
You know, the masks are going to
come down.
They're going to come over the
loudspeaker.
You're going to feel it.
But when you're living this
caregiving life that is, that is
so demanding, there's no warning
signs and nobody coming over the
loudspeaker saying, now's the
time.
Now, right now, put the mask on
yourself.
So I had to find a different thing
that worked for me.
And one of the things I talk about
is, I call it feeding a nest of
hungry birds, where if you
envision a nest of birds, baby
birds, they're always squawking.
You know, they always need
something.
They want something.
And those birds represent your
job, your relationships with your
partner, your friendships, your
kids, your pets, your house, and
certainly your care recipient and
your job, if I didn't already say
that.
But they're packing pieces away at
you and never happy, never feeling
like it's enough.
And that's what a caregiving day
feels like, is that you're never
doing enough.
And yet, there comes this point
where it clicked for me where I
thought, oh, my gosh, if I keep
flying from my nest and coming
back and trying to, you know,
discern who's going to need, you
know, the attention at that time,
I'm not going to be able to keep
doing this.
I'm not going to be able to keep
showing up to my nest.
So I need to put some energy into
nourishment into my body so that I
can continue to take care of my
nest and show up to my nest the
best way that I.
And that was really the pivoted
point for me where it reframed the
way I feel about infusing care and
self-care into my life and not
feeling, not saying I never feel
guilty about it, but dissipating
the guilt around it to say, no, I
need this.
This is essential.
I can't do that the other way.
I know that doesn't work.
I can see how not succeeding in
that domain could really set a
fertile soil for resentment.
And I think the endpoint of
resentment to oneself, to one's
loved one's partner, and
individuals who are the care
recipients can really spiral into
something nasty.
What are your couple of key tools
to counteract the resentment
phenomenon?
Yeah, I mean, the negative
emotions are there.
And I do say you've got to feel
them, and you have to process
them, because otherwise they're
going to fester and pop up in
other maybe unhealthy ways.
By process, you mean experience,
but also let them pass and let
them go through you?
Yeah, for me, you know, it could
be talk therapy for people.
That's certainly helping me now
with my brother that I didn't
necessarily do back when I was
sandwich generation caregiver,
Elizabeth.
But back then, it was writing.
Writing was very therapeutic for
me.
I would sit in Starbucks, and I
would weep and, like, write this
stuff down.
And, you know, initially, my blog
was anonymous.
And then I thought, gosh, I think
people need to know this, and I'm
going to put this out there.
And that was kind of scary, right?
Putting it out there for the world
and wondering what my mom was
going to think about that and so
forth.
And, you know, was I being
respectful?
But, you know, I think those
negative emotions do have to be
dealt with.
And they do come up.
Like, I'm working through, you
know, guilt with my brother
currently.
Like, he can be really evil, send
me evil messages about stuff.
And so it helps to kind of talk
that through with people and to
talk that through with the, you
know, case manager that works with
him.
And so we do want to also—I think
one of the things that was also
healing for me with both my mom
and with my brother now is trying
to put things in place that is
honoring that original
relationship.
So my sibling relationship or my
mother-daughter relationship with
my mom, that it couldn't just be
all care, right?
Like, care, care, care, care,
care, because I would be more
resentful, right?
If every time I had to see these
individuals, it was just more
work, never enough.
Oh, my gosh.
Like, all of that.
So doing some things for them,
yes, but also infusing some joy
and some fun in that.
And so for—when I would go and,
you know, I had a night with my
mom that, you know, once we kind
of got things in a sustainable
way, Wednesday night was our
night.
We would have a meal together.
We would maybe play a game.
I would certainly do some things,
you know, what are some of the top
things on your list that you would
like my attention on?
Did the list ever get fully done?
No.
Was it never—you know, did she
want me to stay longer?
Always, you know, but it was also
some boundaries that I had to put
in place.
And so for my brother, you know,
we try to find some things.
He loves going out for smoked
chicken wings, and he loves
movies, and he loves to play
bingo.
And so we try to infuse those
things where we can as well so
that it's not all chores, but some
more joy in there as well.
Wow, and some new memory
generation.
Yeah.
So let's turn the microphone over
to the production team.
Graham and Fred, what's on your
mind?
So I'm going through something
right now with my dad, who's 79.
And I can't get him to go to see a
doctor.
He hasn't had a physical in a
number of years.
He's got—he's in pain.
He's—there's swelling.
He's, you know, he's obese.
And he's got these health
concerns.
And he's losing his mobility.
Like, I can see it, like, sort of
month on month.
And he just refuses to go and see
a doctor for anything.
And it's causing me—and his take
on it is, well, you know, it's my
decision.
It's my body.
I'll go when I'm ready.
And that's true on one side.
But on the other side, he's making
the eventual outcome for everyone
that cares about him and is going
to have to care for him so much
more difficult.
And I'm at this place where I'm
starting to be really resentful
about that and about the fact
that—and it's causing me to sort
of pull away from him and not want
to speak to him as much, which
also hurts because I love and miss
my dad.
And so, you know, you use this
word intervention.
It's like, does this sound like
something that is going to soon
require intervention level, you
know, that sort of strategy?
And maybe you could give me just a
little bit of advice on how I
might go about approaching him so
that he will go and see a doctor
and make this easier on everyone
that cares about him.
I mean, I feel like you're sharing
a piece of my story from back in,
you know, so many years ago with
my parents because thank you,
first of all, for being vulnerable
and sharing that.
And it's hard.
It's hard to watch people that we
love and adults make poor
decisions, right, and have no
control over it.
And, you know, we want to control
it because we know that the
outcome could be better, and yet
we are working with people who
have their own agency and can make
their own decisions.
And so I feel the pain in that.
And I did use the word
intervention, and our intervention
didn't work.
Like, you might put it out there
and be like, well, I'm not going
to continue to do X, Y, Z if you
don't do, you know, your piece of
it or meet me halfway.
And they still may not do it.
And there comes a point of
accepting that and realizing that
there are things that are in our
control and there are things not.
So we can certainly try to do
things to influence it and say,
you know, hey, Dad, I've been
putting off this doctor's
appointment for me or my
colonoscopy or whatever.
You know, if I did this, you know,
could we make it a challenge and
maybe celebrate it in some way?
Like, is there a way to kind of
turn it into a positive thing?
That's interesting you say that.
Like, I've had this crazy thought
that every time I FaceTime with my
dad, I'm just going to, like,
randomly light up, like, a Camel
cigarette and start coughing and
being like, he's like, what are
you doing?
Because I'm asthmatic.
He knows this.
Like, well, you know, it's my
choice.
It's, you know, it's because
that's what it feels like for me.
You don't mind, do you?
I'm just going to sit here.
Yeah, exactly.
It is.
It's maddening.
It's frustrating.
And, you know, some of these
things are addictions that we're
facing with, too.
I think sometimes it's asking the
questions, too, like, what are you
sitting back?
And instead of saying, I need you
to do this, I need you to do this,
what would need to be true for you
to go to your doctor?
You know, what is your barrier in
there?
What are you afraid of?
And having that kind of dialogue
and conversation about it.
And, you know, I've heard there's
selling it, you know, there could
be some inventions.
And the more we wait, you know,
this and that could happen.
And let's just get the
information.
I think one of the strategies that
worked for me to try to have my
mom meet me halfway better is
being more vulnerable with her
directly.
And I like to, I call it like
shutting, letting the crack show
of what's going on in your life.
Letting your dad see how this
decision that he's doing is
impacting your life.
Are you losing sleep at night?
Are you grinding your teeth?
Are you gaining weight?
Is your blood pressure higher?
You know, sharing the story of, oh
my gosh, I listened to this
podcast and I'm so scared and
fearful that this is going to
happen to our family.
And you revealing how it's
impacting you is in your control.
You can share that.
Now, will that, may not work.
It may work.
It depends, you know, how, how,
how they receive it.
But it's so hard to, you know,
maybe a mobile doctor or
telehealth, like there, you could
try different strategies of, of
how, how does, how to face up.
So, you know, what would make this
worth it for you?
What would be a good way to
celebrate, like once you did this?
And so kind of going back to some
of those questions.
And yet in the end, none of it may
work.
And, and that sucks too.
And then it's really deciding how
you are going to show up for the
people that haven't, haven't
prioritized their health and
happiness.
I can tell you one thing, it's
making me prioritize my own in a
completely different way.
And so maybe that's the solution
is that you can't force anyone,
but you can take the lessons and
apply them to yourself and make
sure that you're, you know, taking
care of yourself.
So thanks for your.
That was the gift, I think, out
of, out of the bad situation for,
for us as well as like, okay, we
know we don't want this.
So how do we, how do we take the
steps to not make that happen?
I hope that, I hope that things
change and I hope that there's,
you know, some of these things
might, might work.
Thank you.
We're back from the break.
We're here with Elizabeth Miller,
the founder of the Happy Healthy
Caregiver.
Elizabeth, when caregiving became
constant in your life, what
changed overnight in your home and
for your kids and in your
relationship with your partner?
Everything.
You know, it, it, just the image
of like a relay race is what it
felt like our life was like, I was
on a treadmill or a hamster wheel.
It, it may have slowed down, but
it never stopped.
And it constantly feel like tag
team.
And, you know, how, how can we
manage this?
How can we better get ourselves
organized to make this better?
How can we get our, on top of our
meals?
What systems can we put in place?
And constantly tweaking and
tweaking and tweaking.
It, it felt, you know, it, it felt
chaotic.
And then at some point though, I
do feel like we, we, we made this
switch to, okay, this is our life
now.
And we're going to have to put our
arms around it and feel out, feel
some really pragmatic ways of how
we're going to be able to live
life.
And we don't want, you know, our
kids to, to be sacrificed.
And we don't want our relationship
to be sacrificed.
And we, we're only going to live
this time in our life right now.
And so we had to sit down and have
some conversations as a family.
And some of that involved the
kids, you know, sitting them down
and having really frank
conversations and saying, look,
we're in over our heads.
Your mom and dad are working.
We've got, you know, we, we want
to be there for you.
We want to do the fun stuff.
We want to come to your games and
your events and celebrate all the
stuff and travel together for
vacations.
But we're going to need your help.
And we're going to need you to own
your, you know, own your
schoolwork, like a job.
You know, we're, we're expecting
you to stay on top of it.
We don't have the time to chase
around and, and figure things out
for you.
You're capable.
And really kind of pulling them
into our team to say, hey, we're
Team Miller and, you know, doing
laundry.
And you might be asking you to
start a meal here and there.
But all of that with the, the
notion that that's going to help
us do more family things on the
weekend.
That's going to allow us to still
kind of carve out that time for
each other.
You know, and there, we laugh
about it now.
I mean, the kids now, my, they're
young adults off the payroll.
And the years that they'd done
laundry have gotten younger and
younger and younger every time.
Like, but in the end, I think the,
the shining light out of all of
that, that intense time when we
were dividing and conquering and
trying to figure it out,
is that they have, they're very
independent young adults, you
know, they're, they're, they're
doing well.
And I think, I, I sometimes
wonder, like, if we didn't go
through all that caregiving chaos,
would it be different?
You know, would they be more spoon
fed and entitled and all of that?
Maybe, I don't know.
Seems to me like communication is
such a powerful tool in that
circumstance.
Without that communication
framework that you established as
a family, both between you and
your partner and you and the kids,
I don't, I don't think the story
would have evolved quite that way.
Do you still remember words from
your kids' mouths that haunt you
as they were dealing with the
changes of the caregiving family?
Yeah.
Like, why aren't our, why aren't
our grandparents like that?
Or, you know, when they come to
visit, all they want to do is, you
know, I just get Diet Cokes for
them or, you know, they don't play
with us.
They don't do anything with us.
Like, those kinds of things are
certainly heartbreaking type of,
type of stuff.
And, but I think in general, like,
you know, my parents tried to do
the best that they could.
They, they watched a lot of TV,
you know, with my kids because
that was kind of what they were
capable of doing.
And my husband's mother was much
more agile.
And so she would often, and had a,
you know, little kid spirit.
And so they, they certainly have
some fun memories of, of doing
things with her before her cancer
kind of progressed and got the
best of her.
But, you know, I don't think that
they think that they had a
horrible childhood or anything.
Like, they, I've had them on the
podcast to kind of get their, my
podcast, to get their kind of side
of things and their perspective.
Really important.
Yeah.
And I don't know, you know, we, we
joke now that we have great power
of attorney, health and financial.
My daughter's a travel nurse.
So she definitely knew though that
she did not want to take care for
older adults.
I'm like, she's had her fill of
older adults.
She goes, she's a NICU nurse for,
for infants.
And my son is, works in finance at
a company.
So we're like, oh, well, we've got
great, we've got great people to
kind of divide and conquer to
help, to help care for us.
But just keeping those lines of
communication open, like we're, we
still do that about what we want
life to look like, what we need to
be true, you know, going through
our possessions and telling them
stories, you know, about it.
Like you, you inherit some of
these items and you don't know the
stories behind them.
And so capturing those and writing
them down and in a place where
they can access them.
It's not morbid.
It's, it's proactive.
Maybe even celebratory.
Yeah.
Someone throughout all of this got
less and less of you every day.
And it's interesting that you had
the kids on the podcast and they
had a chance to reflect, but maybe
what do you think, or what do you
even think your kids might say
about who paid the biggest price
in all of this?
Hmm.
I mean, I think, you know,
hopefully we've set a good example
for them that, yes, you show up
for your family.
You do, you love on them.
You, you care for them.
And you also love and care for
yourself, like without sacrificing
yourself.
If we did it right, that's what
I'm hoping that they would say is
like, you really showed us how to
do that.
And was your partner aligned with
you throughout or did you have to
learn this new role together?
Although I know he, he was also
looking after one of his parents
as well.
So it was, as you said, some
special sandwich.
Yeah.
It was like a big, like puzzle
where we're just trying to put
together the pieces.
And, you know, we did,
communication was a big part of
that and figuring out, okay, where
are you going to carve out your
time?
Where are we going to carve out my
time?
Where's our we time, you know, for
us and for our family?
And how do we divide and conquer,
you know, the kids' appointments
and their activities and our
parents and putting some systems
in place for that?
You know, probably more of my
skill set to be the organizer of
that, but he's on board.
Like he knows that if the systems
and stuff are in place that
they're working for us and, you
know, he can see it, right?
Like my shoulders start to drop.
I sleep better.
The house is, what do they say?
Happy wife, happy life.
I mean, a little bit like that.
Yeah.
What do you think the kids learned
about love and sacrifice through
this whole process?
And how has that affected their
vision of the future?
It's a great question.
I think, yeah, you know, family,
certainly a priority, like a value
for all of us and sacrificing, you
know, do this stuff while you can.
Like they've seen what happens.
We don't have a lot of really good
examples in my family of like
older adults who are living the
dream of, although I will say my
husband has a great aunt that's
100 years old that we were just
around who's pretty amazing.
And I keep telling her, like, you
are a great example.
We need this in our life, you
know, of somebody who still has
agency and decision making and
cognitive.
But, you know, do the things, do
the fun things.
I mean, I think we have a good
time as a family.
Like we really prioritize the fun
and we talk about how we're going
to infuse more fun in our year.
We know life is messy and it's
hard and that I've got a big
family and there's likely going to
be a lot of a lot more
opportunities to care, you know,
and I'm pretty open with them
about, you know, the current
pressures of my brother.
And they're, you know, they've got
good adult vice for me sometimes,
you know, they're in my corner and
part of my care team and say, mom,
that's not okay.
You know, he can't do that.
You need to put a boundary in
place or so it's, it's shining
through.
I think that, um, yeah, it's, you,
you show up, but not, not at all
costs.
So you'd probably feel comfortable
saying that you'd like them one
day to follow your example as
opposed to wanting something
completely different for them when
they face the caregiving of others
to come.
I mean, I'm, I'm hoping that, you
know, I'm, I'm hoping that I
wouldn't be resentful, you know,
to be in, in a independent living,
assisted living, you know, my plan
is to downsize as much as possible
for them to make their lives
easier.
Um, you know, do, would I like to
be in a granny pod in their
backyard?
Maybe if it made sense, you know,
for them.
And it was, it was, it was a
working both ways where I was
adding value and fun to their
life.
But, you know, what I, I want them
to live their own lives for sure.
Like, yeah, your, your, your goal
is not to, to take care of your
dad and I.
When you look back and do you
remember moments where you clearly
had to take and make that big
choice between your parents' needs
and your children's needs?
And is it something that you just
never prepared for until you're in
that moment?
And it almost, you hit this sort
of wall of overwhelm, realizing
that, oh my God, I have to choose
between these two things.
Yeah.
Um, I mean, there, there was the
birthdays and things like that.
You know, I, I would do some
bargaining, I'm sure.
And, and, oh, you know, we'll,
we'll be sure to celebrate, you
know, on a different day.
And trying to kind of come up with
a, a win-win situation.
Um, you know, probably one of the
hardest things that we did was in
2014, my dad, we had planned a
trip for four of us to go to
Italy.
It was going to be our, like our
first international trip.
Kids were in high school and my,
or one was in middle school, one
was in high school.
My, my dad had passed in August,
but the trip was already planned.
We had moved my mom and then my
mother-in-law was on, was in a
transitioning phase, like when the
trip kind of came around.
And it was a, a decision.
It was, you know, we talked about
it and we were like, you know,
could she pass while we were gone?
Maybe, you know, could it, could
it, could it, could it, should it,
would it type of thing, but we
ended up going.
And it's probably to this day,
like our favorite vacation.
And we've taken a lot of vacations
because what do they need?
You know, once they got in high
school years, we would do more
trips and stuff together.
But I think it's because like when
you're going through a really
messy time, like, you know,
grieving parents and transitioning
mom and all of that, the, the
diamonds and the rough really kind
of shine, shine bright.
Like everything was so kind of
murky that you're like, this is so
amazing.
We're so far removed from our
projects that we can't be there,
right?
Like we're in Italy.
We can't be there.
We've, we've set some systems up
the best place that we can.
And when we came back, we did lose
my mother-in-law.
She passed away just a couple
days.
She kind of hung on until we, we
got back and passed away soon
after that.
So that was probably the, the, the
time where we felt that biggest
tug and that biggest pull.
But you make the best decisions
with the information you have at
the time.
And that's one of the mantras that
I've certainly kind of lived by.
There's a recurring theme here
that you've, you've got your
sibling family and you've got your
partner and the children grew with
you in this role and, and really
showed some, some healthy
adjustment.
There's some of the resentment
that can develop in a caregiver.
And I think a lot of people are
facing that.
It, it, it may not be even about
their parent directly or the role
they have to play, but it's just
about being alone.
So alone in all of it.
What's your advice for the most
lonely, alone caregiver out there
today?
Yeah.
You're not alone.
Like there, a lot of people are
feeling the way that you're
feeling if you're listening to
this and.
How do you gain strength in
numbers?
Yeah.
There's a community is everything,
you know, it's a safe place.
Like I've never met another family
caregiver.
I didn't like, like, they just get
it.
They get it.
And, you know, I'm, I'm part of a,
um, a nonprofit here in the
Atlanta area.
We've got programs here in the
Atlanta area.
I'm one of a national virtual
program for daughterhood.org.
Like people can come and connect
to virtual support sessions there.
You know, I do complimentary
coaching calls to try to point
people in the right direction and
get them.
Um, there could be some, some
support in your area and maybe
it's not a traditional caregiver
support and that's okay.
Like maybe it's your hike club or
for me, it was my book club.
Like, I can't tell you how many
times I would go to my book club
and I would just tomato face cry
and those girls would just rally
around, around me and they would
offer extra help and say, I got
your mom.
I'm going to take her to get a flu
shot on Tuesday or, um, so I think
that, but keeping it in, I know
what doesn't work and keeping it
inside and just kind of thinking,
oh, I'm going to, you know,
bootstrap it and, and, you know,
push my way through it.
And especially if you're a solo
caregiver listening, like never
seen that work, never seen it.
So you've got to figure out how
to, how to build the care team for
your care recipient, but also for
yourself.
And there's two people in this
partnership and they both need
some TLC.
Absolutely.
And when that solo role is really
driven home because the people who
could help you the most, namely
your siblings really are, have
chosen not to share in the
caregiving load.
How unfair does it get?
What point from your experience
having spoken to so many people
are people pushed to and do family
relationships ever recover after
that sort of solo caregiving
that's imposed on one individual
from a family while everyone just
sort of watches or crafts their
own sort of strategy to help?
You know, you should do this and
you should do that or, you know,
here's a bit of money.
I'll talk to you in six months,
you know.
Yeah, I, you know, I think that
all families are different and the
foundation that you have before
you go into caregiving certainly
is going to make a difference.
So I had a very solid foundation
with my sisters and, and my, my
one brother and, you know, are we
always on the same page in the
line?
Has it, have we had some cracks in
our foundation?
Sure.
You know, and, and we work, work
through some of those things.
I also have a brother that, you
know, has never really shown up
for my family.
And it was very frustrating for us
to say, why is that okay?
Why is that fair?
And, you know, my other brother
that, you know, I've got three
brothers and two sisters, but is
very resentful still to this day
of my brother.
And for me, I've kind of processed
it to say, well, he's always been
like that.
He's, why would caregiving make
that any different?
He's been consistent is my word
for him.
And so when he says stuff that
frustrates me or he tries to come
in and insert his two cents, first
of all, he's not in the arena with
us.
So he doesn't get included in the
text and the conversations.
Like you don't get, you don't get
an opinion unless you're showing
up and putting in the grit.
And, and, you know, it just reared
its head this week.
He had his, you know, opinions
about what are my brother's care.
And yet the four of us are aligned
like, hey, you know, we're, we're
making the best decisions, the
information we have at the time.
So sorry that you, you know, and
does it kind of rub you the wrong
way?
Yes.
Do I wonder who's going to care
for him when he ages and needs
help?
Yeah.
Like, you know, what comes around
kind of goes around for sure.
So it's hard.
It's really hard.
I think that, you know, ultimately
we can't change people.
And so the only things that we can
do is impact ourself.
I know it wasn't serving me to be
resentful and angry with my
brother.
And so I had to kind of come to
terms with like, you know, this is
what our relationship is.
And, and it, it is heartbreaking
and it is sad, but that was not my
choice.
He made those choices and
continues to make those choices.
And so then you kind of are
looking around and saying, okay,
help is not there.
Where is help?
Who are the people?
And if they're not your other
family members, then you do have
to get more creative and find
help outside of it.
What are the best resources you've
found?
Is it community organizations?
Is it like-minded individuals and,
and virtual, virtual communities
online?
Yeah.
I mean, I have some core
caregiving friends that I know I
could go to with anything and,
you know, that I've made online
and through virtual support.
I would say the most practical
place, you know, that has been the
most helpful and given peace
of mind is an elder law care
attorney to set yourself up for
all those things so that I could
sleep better at night knowing that
my ducks are in a row.
So I think it depends.
It depends on, on what it is.
It's, it's, it's hard to pick, to
pick one thing.
Um, I would probably say the least
helpful thing has been our
healthcare system.
Like they're just creating more
work, more pain, more frustration,
like, you know, having to recall
and make appointments and, uh, you
know, sometimes multiple times,
like just not making our lives
any easier.
It's really has been frustrating.
And that is something that I wish
would change.
So many people, and I mean, that
just fuels for, that's how the
system makes its contribution,
no doubt, but so many people are
feeling burned out in the face of
just those requirements,
let alone the requirements of
caregiving one-on-one for their
loved one or their partner.
And it all sort of snowballs.
But when you sort of hit that
point, and so many people are now,
I mean, it's, this is a,
not a new conversation, but it's
certainly being popularized,
caregiver burnout, caregiver
syndrome.
When you hit that peak in, in, in
your journey, what did it feel
like sort of mind and body?
What were you going through when
you look back at it now?
It's funny.
Cause I, I definitely hit it the
first time around and I've hit it
again.
I hit it again toward the end of
last year with my brother's stuff
and it, it reared up
differently.
Um, and so sometimes it's, it's
not the same, same ways, but the,
I think, you know, the first
time around it was, um, you know,
very easy to cry, you know, when
I'd start talking about
things, losing interest in the
things that I enjoyed and pulling
back from that.
Certainly I was gaining weight and
my health was suffering.
I had a face full of acne.
Um, now, you know, the burnout
type of thing now is, um, in, in
trying different tools is
like, you know, I'm a coach,
right?
Helping people recover and
mitigate burnout and talking about
it.
Like, how can this have happened
again?
And it's interesting because it is
that kind of frog and boil, frog
in the boiling water
analogy where like you would jump
in the water, you would, and it
was boiling, you would immediately
jump out, but you're living your
life and it just kind of is, is
slowly, gradually happening.
Um, and so I think what really
kind of has hit me this time
around is that some of the
strategies
that worked for me before to
recover from burnout are not, are
not working.
And that maybe is like this, like
a deeper physiological kind of a
burnout type of thing.
And so then it's just kind of
getting curious and, and trying to
do different things.
Um, and I think that's where, you
know, the, the talking has, has
certainly helped because
I'm, you know, you look at from
the outside and I'm doing the
stuff, you know, I'm, I'm
working out three days a week.
I play pickleball.
I'm in Mahjong.
I have a girls thing.
I, you know, I travel, I do, I do
a lot of the, the self-care
things.
So how could I possibly still feel
burnout?
Well, it's, it just, um, yeah, it
just, it just creeps up on you.
And you're not the first person
who said that I was doing
everything right.
And yet I still hit the wall.
Yeah.
Cause you're human and you're just
like in an impossible, um, you
know, draining situation
for sure.
Yeah.
For those people listening, do you
have any advice for like the
experience in the moment
or like what you really need to
pay attention to when you need to
acknowledge that you're
the next person in line who needs
some care?
Cause it can't go on that way.
Yeah.
I think you do have to become kind
of hyper aware of yourself.
And so I w I will say, even though
I've been experiencing burnout, I,
I knew I was like,
Oh, you're, you're here again.
This is, this is happening again.
Um, and, you know, I think having
those trusted people that are
going to be honest with you,
like my husband's one of those
person, we'd check each other and
say, Hey, you know, um,
but don't wait too long, like
reach out and find the support,
surround yourself with that.
And, and it, and realize that
you're worthy of it.
Like you need it.
You need it just as so many people
are counting on you.
Yes.
That's one reason to need it, but
you, you deserve it too, just
because you're a human being on
this earth.
Um, and so knowing that, you know,
getting to that point where like
the game is really
about how to make it sustainable
and we're put in an kind of an
impossible situation where
we can only do so much on that.
And, and they're just, the systems
around us are, are faulty.
And so recognizing that it's kind
of broken and you're, you're,
you're in a little bit of
a battle.
Yeah.
And that it's, um, it could be a
season of your life and it might
be your whole life.
And so try to figuring, figure out
like, what is, what is it, you
know, what is good enough
look like for you?
What is doing the best you can
look like for you?
So many individuals don't have
access to communication skills, to
supportive siblings, to a partner
who's
aligned, a partner who's not
resentful or partner one can talk
to and constructively and really
sort of team build.
When individuals who don't have
those resources, who are already
feeling the pressure and just
feel they can't go on caregiving
anymore.
What urgent options do families
have in those circumstances?
Yeah.
I mean, then they, it's, I mean,
if you-
You can't just drop people off at
the emergency.
I mean, I've seen it happen.
It's like, yeah, we're, we can't
do this.
Here you go.
I mean, that's not the right way
either.
But it is desperate in some, in
some instances.
Talking to your care team, you
know, calling your area agency on
aging may be helpful.
And then that's certainly not
going to be like, yes, the
resource that saved everything is
the
area agency on aging.
I cannot say that.
So, but I know like we were in a
situation with my cousin who was
an only child for her
parents.
And her mom had a really difficult
form of dementia, frontal temporal
dementia, progressive
super nuclear palsy.
Her dad was, was drowning.
You know, she was living remotely
and we did end up having to kind
of call, um, the area
agents on aging.
They sent somebody in to do an
assessment and my cousin's
inclination was like to try to
make
it look perfect when they came.
I said, no, you need to show it
the way that it is.
Authenticate it.
Yes, the raw, genuine way that it
is so that you can get the help
you need.
And it was, it was painful, but it
was, um, that was really kind of
the, the breaking point,
uh, for that family.
And maybe we waited too long,
frankly, because by then I think
my uncle was, you know, beyond
kind of, um, beyond burnout and
had his own health things then
kind of spiral.
So, yeah, it's, it's
heartbreaking.
Um, but I do think you've got to
reach out and, and keep asking,
you know, their doctor,
your doctor.
I can't, you know, again, showing
those cracks.
I'm not able to keep doing this
anymore.
I'm, I'm completely burned out.
My mental health has suffered my
physical health.
I need help.
Um, and keep pushing.
There's so much storytelling
that's going on these days and
you'll still hear people who
just love to say, I would never
put my mom or dad in a home.
Like, how can you even think of
that?
What don't they get?
Like, what are they just not
understanding about what families
are actually facing in
2026 on such a large sweeping
scale?
I think any kind of rigid
promises, uh, I wouldn't recommend
them.
I don't, you know, the kids, I
didn't do this.
It's like, oh, we'll see.
We'll see was like my favorite
phrase with my kids.
And, uh, you know, it's the
conversation and the dialogue with
your older adult.
Like you don't know the
circumstances and how they're
going to change.
And there's no crystal ball as to
what you're going to be able to
endure and take on.
And again, that like repeat over
and over and over again of the
things that go in your life
and to, to feel those feelings and
kind of sink into that as an, as
an individual and realizing
you're not the person and this,
and the ripple effect that's
having around your whole,
your whole foundation of your
family and everything.
Like it's, it's a lot to consider.
Um, you know, had you back then,
you know, we, we did have my mom,
my mom was in two assisted
living communities.
So after my dad passed away, we
knew that we weren't in a, we were
not in a position
as working parents to bring my mom
into the, into our house and give
her the care that she
needed.
Um, was it really hard?
Absolutely.
Did she want to go?
She didn't want to go, you know,
and we did, we tried two different
places and eventually my
older sister did take her and
stayed at home and decided that
that's what she made that choice.
I think it's a big choice.
Um, and now similar with my
brother, like with his
disabilities, like as a long-term
care plan,
you need something that's
sustainable.
And I don't know about you, Mark,
but I don't have this, all of the
skills that are required
to be somebody's, um, activities
director and, you know, their
medical needs and their emotional
needs and still kind of function
as a human myself.
So it's, there's a lot of things
to consider.
And I, I, I don't want to get into
that position, like almost like
the working moms were like
way back in the, you know, the,
the nineties where a working home
versus a stay home mom
and which one is better, uh, an
at-home caregiver versus a
caregiver who has their people
living
in their community.
Like, it's all hard.
So, um, and everybody's situation
is a little bit different.
And, and so instead of kind of
coming to these places where we're
looking to kind of divide
and judge, like let's come
together and support and help each
other.
Yeah, I think so.
And that notion of, you know, the
good child is the child who's
supposed to endure anything
and everything.
And, you know, that can really
become not only exhausting, but
dangerous, especially for others
around you, kids watching.
I mean, what I've heard from your
story today is that your kids
actually learned a lot from
you.
They actually learned a lot about
communication.
They learned a lot about sitting
down and opening up about things
and speaking and listening.
But you can appreciate when you're
talking about just, we're here,
I'm here to endure anything
and everything else will pay the
price.
That can be destructive on so many
fronts.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
I think the rigid, to be fluid and
it changes, like to pivot and
assess and diagnose and kind
of change course and paths is, is
important.
And, and to be flexible that it's,
we can't control it.
Like we're talking about other
human beings.
It's, it's not something that one
person can successfully control on
the, all on their own.
Yeah.
Everybody has a different, a
different beginning, middle and
end to their story, but certain
beginnings, unfortunately are
really challenging and set the
stage for distress later on in
life.
What happens if the care recipient
you're charged with happened to be
abusive or is a very narcissistic
personality and then you have to
grow into that role as their
caregiver?
So, um, how does that unfold if
they're under your roof or you're
taking on more and more
responsibilities for them?
And like, do you owe them even
more or less in that case?
Uh, and I mean, then potentially
your kids are also vulnerable to
seeing that also.
No, I mean, I think we have a
responsibility, especially as
parents to keep our kids safe
to, you know, our marriage
healthy.
You know, there have been times
where my, you know, my husband and
I discussed having his
mom come live with us, which she,
she did not want to do.
Um, but in, in, in thinking that
through and having those
conversations, like, you know,
my brother, it's very clear to us.
We could not have my brother come
live with us.
It would completely change the
dynamic of our, our family.
Um, he's an angry person.
He's a mean person.
He's a night owl.
Like, all of those things have,
um, repercussions on your, your
day-to-day life.
And so boundary setting is healthy
in all of those relationships.
And I think especially important
when you're talking about toxic,
narcissistic relationships.
Um, and you have a choice
ultimately.
Like, I know sometimes it does
feel for people that they don't
have a choice to show up for
people.
Um, but you do, you do.
And, you know, so I, I, you know,
choose to, to help my brother.
Like, could I, could I just, you
know, we pay the bill and leave
them there?
Yeah, we could.
Um, but we're not going to do
that.
That's not how we were raised.
And so I'm going to show up in the
ways that I can show up, but I'm
also going to have boundaries
and say, no, it's not okay to talk
to me that way.
No, I'm not going to respond to
your messages when you talk to me
that way and protect myself
from that.
I'm only going to check your
messages so many times a day
because it's, it's, I know that
it's
mental, mentally for me, um, hard
to do.
So it's on us to protect ourselves
and to protect our, our key
relationships that are healthy
first, and then, you know, set the
boundaries around them.
I really feel for people that are
in those really tough situations.
It can be debilitating and
demoralizing, I think, beyond what
we can easily fathom or imagine.
Before we wrap it up today, uh,
Elizabeth, you know, you've made
such an important contribution
throughout your journey and you've
reached so many people and, um,
I'd like to thank you
for taking the time to join us
today because we've learned a lot
from you and we're certainly
trying to help spread the message
of all of our guests because
they're, they're so valuable.
for that person listening at home
today, uh, who's entering the
arena of caregiving, what
would be your most important
message to them that they can
follow and take them to the next
first steps required for a success
story as opposed to a downward
spiral?
Yeah, I mean, it's, it's against
our grain to really try to be
proactive and to think
through this, but as much as you
kind of can learn from other
people's stories and their
trajectory, see what's going to
happen.
How can you get in front of it?
You're going to have more options,
uh, at that time when you're not
in a crisis situation.
And I like to say, you know, that
the best day to find support is on
your best day.
I think a lot of times as
caregivers, we wait until our hair
is on fire and we're in the deep,
you know, end of the pool drowning
and, oh my gosh, now we need help.
Like what would happen if you
really sought that help before you
really needed it?
And you got some tools and some
strategies that could help you
maybe even for prevent that
crisis is one thing, but also what
a help you could be for somebody
else who's needing to learn
from you and that you have a lot
to learn and share.
And it's, and it validates that
journey for you.
So that would be my biggest tip is
like, don't wait, connect to your
community.
You know, if it's not through the
resources that I have, then find
something else that's
going to, that's going to be
useful to you.
Um, and the sooner you do it, the
better.
Well, I'd like to thank you for
all that advice and for really
allowing us to go places
today and talk about scary things
that people sometimes don't want
to talk about or just
don't want to hear.
We wish you the best.
That wraps up this week's episode
of the Caregivers Podcast.
I'm your host, Dr.
Mark, and we'll see you next time.
Before we wrap up, I wanted to
remind you of something important.
The conversations you hear on this
podcast are here to inform, to
support, to spark reflection.
We're not a substitute for
professional medical advice, care,
therapy, or crisis services.
Listening to this podcast does not
create a doctor-patient or
caregiver-client relationship
between us.
If you're facing a medical
concern, health challenge, a
mental health challenge, or a
caregiving situation
that needs guidance, I encourage
you to reach out to a qualified
professional who knows your
story.
If you're ever in crisis, please
don't wait.
Call your local emergency number
or recognize crisis hotline right
away.
You deserve real-time help and
support.
The views you hear on this show,
whether from me or my guests, are
our own.
They don't necessarily reflect any
organizations we work with, are
part of, or have worked with,
or been part of in the past.
This podcast is an independent
production.
It's not tied to any hospital,
university, or healthcare system.
Thank you for being here, for
listening, and most of all, for
taking the time to care for
yourself while you continue to
care for others.
I look forward to hearing from
you.