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Your guided tour of the world of growth, performance marketing, customer acquisition, paid media, and affiliate marketing.
We talk with industry experts and discuss experiments and their learnings in growth, marketing, and life.
Time to nerd out, check your biases at the door, and have some fun talking about data-driven growth and lessons learned!
Welcome to another edition of the Always Be Testing podcast with your
host, Ty De Grange. Get a guided tour of the world of growth, performance
marketing, customer acquisition, paid media, and affiliate marketing.
We talk with industry experts and discuss experiments and their learnings in growth,
marketing, and life. Time to nerd out, check your biases at the door, and
have some fun talking about data driven growth and lessons learned.
Hello. Hello. Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of the Always Be
Testing podcast. I'm your host, Ty DeGrange, and I'm really excited to have
Andrea Barsk Roberts with me today. How's it going, Andrea? I'm good. Just,
surviving the Texas summer heat. Yeah. We are. I feel like this year has
been mild by comparison to the last couple years, which I've been pleasantly
surprised by, but definitely is always a a challenge to kinda mix it up, get
into cool areas. And how how have you been coping? Water. Anything to do
with water helps. Luckily, we have a a tiny pool in our yard.
So that and a a play water table for the baby is is a
safe room. Beautiful. Yeah. The little ones, it makes it also a little harder. But,
well, amazing. I'm I'm excited to dive in with you today. For those of you who don't
know, Andrea has a great background in performance marketing, marketing strategy,
mix of start ups, really interesting companies, everything from Open Farm to
HelloFresh to a number of really very interesting roles in the space. And I think she's got a
ton of insights and learnings that are gonna be super valuable to dive into. It's always gonna be
always a fun conversation that we typically have Andrea and I. Andrea, maybe kick it off. Like,
how did you get into into the space, into marketing? Yeah. I think it
really started in college. I I took a marketing course and and was
focused on sort of advertising and consumer psychology. And that was really when I
knew I wanted to do something with people and where I'm really thinking about people and their
behavior and didn't really know where that was gonna take me, but, you know, I was
thinking either marketing or psychology or human resources. But I
I really knew I wanted to do something with people. And from there, graduated
at the height of the financial crisis, so not the best time to graduate college,
but ended up getting a job in sales, which obviously involves a lot
of people and interaction. And just really found myself curious about digital
marketing and the marketing side. You know, I saw these leads coming into our Salesforce
instance, and I was like, how is this happening? Like, where are these people coming from? And
it was right when sort of paid social was becoming a thing and just realized
that sales was not really where my my passion lied and that marketing was where I wanted to
be. And that was where startup environment ended up from there
getting various jobs at startups that landed me at HelloFresh, which
was, I would say, the first real sort of performance marketing
environment I'd I'd been in, and then it kind of all, I guess, developed from
there. Would you say that's kind of your, like, sliding door moment of of your career that
kind of opened things up, or is there another one that you feel was more I always say to people,
HelloFresh was really that job that I attribute so much to. You know? I didn't
learn everything there, but it was really sort of the catalyst for everything that happened afterwards.
And I say to people at start ups, you know, it's a really hard job and you're wearing a million
hats. But if you're really building your resume and your knowledge
and those sort of learnings, it's worth it. It's a hundred percent worth it.
I would say the sliding door moment for me was right after that where, you know, I've
always been a huge foodie, and I was choosing between
two job offers. One at a really early stage, like, pre, you
know, founder, no other investment, not a not a dime of revenue start up
in the sort of restaurant, business. It was basically like a
resi, but like a club where you got points, etcetera. And my job at
Petflow, which is a a pet food supplies retail online retailer, and
my heart was saying, oh, restaurants, food. I'll be thinking about all of that, you know, every day. And then, you
know, there was pet, and I was like, you know, I like pets, but the two
completely different jobs and and businesses. And I I ended up going with Petflow
for a number of reasons, and it really was the right decision in hindsight. You know,
Petflow was more mature. It allowed me to sort of build upon what I'd learned at HelloFresh,
and I think it taught me that in life, there's just chapters. And
luckily, I've been able you know, I think the jobs I got after allow me to pay to go to
restaurants and and enjoy that passion. And I think, you know, made me
realize there's hopefully another good forty years of my life that I can do
other things and explore other areas. So, That's awesome. That was another sort of
sliding door moment, I would say. That's great. What do you think it was that kind of,
like, having the startup experience and the various work experience prior to HelloFresh? What do you
think it was that kind of made that transition doable for you? I think
I sort I'm a I'm a little bit of a risk taker, I think. You know? I'm not think my
sisters at my wedding, their speech was about how I I, I have a lot of
courage, I guess. And I think it's startups that's rewarded,
and it is scary. You know? You're doing a lot. You're taking risks. You're making big
decisions. And if you're in an environment where that's sort of, rewarded
or encouraged, you just realize that's where you're gonna, you know, thrive and grow.
So I think that's it was sort of a personality thing, honestly. That's awesome.
Where do you think you to kind of harness that courage, or or were you just born with it, or where where do
you think it kinda comes from? I think it it's you know, maybe my parents growing up
sort of encouraged me to do things even if I was bad at them. I was never, like,
an a student, you know, always sort of b, b plus, you know, a solid, but
never, like, an amazing one. And they just always encourage me to try things and
encourage me to be curious. And I think also just, having
that support network and that net knowing that, you know, what's the worst that could happen
and just feeling supported, I think, just gave me the confidence to take those risks. That's
awesome. I love that. You've had a number of, you know, marketing roles,
marketing leadership roles, roles where you've had to flex your your
strategic muscles. When you think about, you know, difference between good
marketing strategy and not effective marketing strategy or things that have not
worked, how do you kind of think about that? What are you what are some of the differences and observations you've
you've had over the years? Oh, it's a lot. I'm I think definitely
one of them is having ill defined goals. Like, if you don't really know what you're working towards,
you're you don't know when to stop. And I think sort of knowing
when to stop is is pretty important at whatever level you are in the organization. I,
if you're spending a week trying to solve a problem, it's probably, like, three days too many
that you were trying to solve it before either asking for help or, you know, changing directions.
I think another one I sort of actually have two. One is a bit broader, and one
is focusing solely on the KPIs and numbers and sort of that I guess
things have evolved, you know, since a few years ago, but that sort of pure performance marketing
approach, I think what I've really learned is you have to think about
brand, and you have to you do have to have a little bit of faith in it,
and I think really hard. That is where courage is really important. You have to
have conviction that that's important and invest part of your budget there. And then I
think the last one is definitely spreading yourself too thin and not really doing
anything well. Doing a lot of tests, but never really giving a test a chance to succeed
because you didn't dedicate enough resources or or time to it. Yeah. Those are really
interesting observations. And and the first thing that's come up recently on the pod, and and I think it's
come up a lot from, in my perspective, from performance marketers and growth people that are
very strong and have some really good experiences. So, you know, for you to kind of
double down that and share that unprompted is really interesting because I think a
lot of people yeah. I'm sure people have kind of seen some of the, like, Amazon
and Jeff Bezos learnings that that he's kind of touted over the years. Like, when data when
the qualitative and the quantitative are kind of at odds with each other or or kind of,
like, at a draw, like, he'll he'll kinda lean on the qual and the the customer voice
and that and which I think is kind of often lends itself to the the brand voice. I
don't know if you've observed similar, but I think I think you're spot on there. I think a lot of times people can
get caught into the data weeds, into the minutiae. And it's like you have to kind of
be able to also take some pretty sizable swings and and go with some degree of
conviction on on some of these business and marketing decisions. Yeah. And I've been at companies where we
invested zero in brand and content and not zero, but it was definitely not
a priority. Generally, probably you find that in, like, PE backed, environments
versus VC backed, just much more sort of conservative environments.
Yep. But I think Open Farm, definitely an example of a brand,
where we invested a lot in content and partnerships and
just owned content and particularly influencers was a big bet while I
was there where we're starting from scratch, and it takes a long time to start seeing impact
on in influencers. And you just have to have a lot of faith in the channel and
measure what you can and make the best decisions you can, and I think that's where
conviction really matters. And talking to people, you know, I think
having great partners that have succeeded that you can learn from and also,
I think, get data from so that when it comes to sort of justifying the budget, you can
say, I know this doesn't look good right now, but we gotta keep going and chipping away at
this. Yeah. And not necessarily calling out any one brand or experience
specifically, but do you feel like that patience is rewarded in most cases when
there's an investment there, or are there times when maybe it doesn't make sense? Obviously, there's a
lot into that question, but I'm just wondering if you have a take on that.
It's such a balance. Sometimes speeds I mean, speed is always the best.
The faster you can sort of get indicators, the better or change
direction. I think I think there's sometimes when waiting can really hurt
you. I think I've noticed, like, on-site conversion optimization, you know, you can
try to wait for stat sig forever. And at a certain point, you just kinda have
to say, does this also make sense? You know? Did is does our hypothesis make sense, and
is the data sort of pointing in the direction? You know, that that's an example where wait you could be
waiting for months and months and, you know, end up in the same place. Totally. Yeah. And
you you kind of made some great observations around, like, your open farm experience.
I I couldn't agree more about there's times when that that waiting game does not make
sense. What are some of your other favorite learnings from Open Farm? Oh, man.
I think the importance of probably supply chain and inventory,
that's really from just my CPG experience in general. If you don't have the product,
you can't sell it. I really felt that as we launched Amazon
while I was there. And just if anyone's, you know, done
three p on Amazon, managing inventory can be a real pickle sometimes.
And I think just understanding that part of the business and working with your ops
partners, I think similarly, in my Petflow days, I
actually oversaw our purchasing department and just really understanding how did we think
about purchasing, whether it's looking at the rate of sale of a product and what was the growth rate
of the product, what was the lead time for it to, you know, come from a PO into
getting it in stock, and, you know, what's the lead time from getting it to the warehouse to, you
know, unpacking it and getting it to the right place and it's showing up in in inventory, you know,
really understanding the whole sort of value chain of the product, I think,
is huge. It must have been quite a learning at at an operation like Open Farm
two. Yeah. I mean, we we produce the product too, so very different from
being on on the retail side where you're you're buying the product from the from the
manufacturers and brands. You're relying on them having the right inventory and, you know, you're just
one more step away. But, you know, I I loved that being on the brand side
is, you know, you're working with every department on this one brand and one
mission while on the retail side, you you have hundreds of brands all
managing all those different relationships and distributors and can definitely be a big
challenge. That's awesome. Super interesting. Were there other ones that come to mind for
you from the Open Farm experience? Yeah. I think it's public information.
We did a fundraise while I was there, and obviously with that grew grew very
rapidly. I think it was building a strategy, but also, you know, when
you you do a fundraise, you think about, like, what do we need that we or what have we been wanting
that we haven't been able to do now? We have a fundraise. How do we fuel that growth? How
do we make those investments? And I think I personally was maybe quick to jump on new
software and, you know, these, optimization tools. And I
think we had a great stack, and I think I probably jumped on them a little too
quickly. You know, I think software can be extremely valuable. But if
you if your team isn't caught up in terms of bandwidth to
actively manage them and sort of squeeze out that value, then it it's just, you
know, sucking up budget basically every month. Yeah. And I I think, you know, you're working
with sales people, and you can build your hypotheses and your forecast around the impact. But and this
is a learning, not only at Open Farm, but every role is you
always overestimate the impact of any AB test or any new software or
new strategy. And, you know, it's good to be optimistic, but I
think the real winners are usually the ones that someone came up with in a brainstorming session and you try it
and you're like, woah. That increased conversion rate by thirty percent. Mhmm. Yeah. I
actually have an example at HelloFresh of that where we kind of we were looking at revenue
and we were trying to think, oh, how do we increase revenue or new customers? And, you know, we
thought, oh, maybe, you know, we collect all these email addresses that convert pretty well.
I wonder how we can collect more email addresses. And someone was like, why don't we put a discount and
people would get a discount if they answer their email? And just adding ten percent to the email
capture just totally I think it, like, doubled or tripled the email capture overnight.
It was one of those just amazing sort of little gold mines. Having
an offer on that capture? Yeah. Yep. That's awesome. Very cool. What
what other HelloFresh is a really interesting one for so many reasons. What are what
are some of the other learnings that you, wanna share from that experience?
I joined in twenty fourteen. So, you know, it's a long ten years ago, which
is crazy. Yeah. But, you know, it's completely different environment then.
And, you know, performance marketing was barely a thing at that point. It was kinda
like a new concept, but HelloFresh, just amazing, amazing
company. Obviously, you know, operates in different countries and had, you know, great
investors that that had a lot of learnings that we applied there. But it was very
much sort of a move fast and test everything, try everything, and
measure everything kind of, culture. And, obviously, at that
time, Blue Apron was sort of our big competitors. There was a huge sort of competitive
nature to every single day. We were, like, tracking new customers on a big screen and
had a big thermometer on the, you know, whiteboard, and it was just such a fun
time. I was one of, I think, four or five people on the marketing team, so
very much a smaller team than it is today. But, I've it was just such a
rigorous environment, and I'd never worked at a company that was so rigorous when it came
to analyzing and just acting upon data quickly. So one
I was on this thing called the churn committee where we were looking at, you know, churn every
single week, and we were looking at recipe feedback, and we were looking at our,
subscription cancel survey and, you know, any other sort of customer service feedback we were getting. And
everyone was meeting together, presenting slides each week and just really talking about what
were the trends. Okay. What are we gonna do this week to improve the customer experience? And it
was just this sort of obsession with reviewing and moving fast and showing
results quickly. And it was just, I just learned a ton there. I
think it was also just fun because a lot of channels that are sort of mainstream today,
we were, like, just testing and trying out then. So, like, package
insert programs, which, you know, a lot of people do nowadays, you know, pay to put their flyers
in ecommerce boxes. And, you know, we were calling different companies saying, hey. You
know, we'll give you this CPM if you put flyers in your box. Like, what do you
think? Or and even even I think
this was a big eye opener was think realizing that our box had a hundred percent open rate
and saying, what are we doing in our box for our customers and really sort of
unlocking the box or the unboxing experience as a CRM channel, which, you know,
now is obvious. People have these wonderful unboxing experience with drip
campaigns of inserts in those boxes, but, it was kind of a novel idea
back then. I was just gonna say it's a hundred percent fun to
see those channel s curves develop where, you know, you you know that they're you're kind of
on the emerging trend of it, and then it becomes a bit more saturated with time. You're seeing them so
frequently now, so it's cool to hear that you were, on the early side of that
wave. No. It was, just a great a great team, great company, great
people, for sure. I love it. You know, when you're thinking about teams and growth teams in
particular, what's the most important ingredient in your perspective? What's some of the most,
important pieces to have? I think not being, like, super myopic
when it comes to your growth levers, really thinking outside the box. We kind of touched upon this, you
know. And I really do think the space is evolving from just, like, performance marketing. Okay.
Let's optimize our campaigns or our landing page, but really sort of
looking more broadly at, you know, customer service data. Like, what is customer feedback?
Okay. What's our member churn rate? Why are people churning? Kinda what I was talking
about in in HelloFresh. If you can increase LTV of every single cohort
you acquire by ten percent, that's a huge growth lever. And understanding
what's driving the LTV to be sort of stagnant or consistent
is, you know, a missed opportunity. And you can, you know, throw money at new channels or, you
know, tweet creative and messaging or conversion rate, but really not not being
too myopic on sort of your own department and really sort of thinking outside the box. I
mentioned inventory as well. You know, how do you talk to,
you know, your ops team about bundling products, and how do you make that
efficient on the warehouse side? Because, you know, you have a lot of conviction that these two
products would go well together, and you could increase AOV by x percent. So I I
think I mean, I personally just have a ton of conviction in customer service teams and
managed a customer service team for the first time in, I think, twenty eighteen or
twenty nineteen and just opened my eyes how important they are in terms of customer insights, but
also that team is talking to customers. If you hire the right people, they're gonna be passionate and,
you know, thinking about how do they add value to the customer experience, whether it's, you know, being many
consultants to our customers and giving them, you know, feedback on how to use the product
or even just talking to them about their pet or, you know, can make a huge
difference. I love that. It's, I don't think enough teams realize that
how much of a gold mine consume you know, customer service can and should be. I think
by definition, you mentioned this early in the earlier reference, growth teams kinda they have to be
kind of unsiloed and unbundled to be really effective and I think to
do what growth teams need to do. And I think you kinda nailed that comment
about what's that kind of key ingredient of a growth team, from your perspective.
A lot of times, it sounds like that there were examples where you saw customer
service really be leaned on appropriately and empowered to do
the right thing and to get good insights to make better decisions on growth,
fulfillment, operations, marketing, and a lot of the other departments, which I think is
something I don't think enough brands and companies do. Yeah. I think customer service in
particular in larger brands get siloed. You know, it's all about
SLAs on tickets. You know, how many tickets are you getting through? You know, what's the first response?
How quickly are you getting through phone calls? And I think that's really what that team is
held to. And if you have a more of a marketer sort
of maybe overseeing that team, you can really lean into, you know, how do you
upsell and cross sell and, you know, what types of tickets should have a really long
phone call. You know? The customer is really concerned about
the product or or the service. You want them to spend that extra five minutes on the call
and and make that frown turn upside down. So I I think, you know, it it's such
a nuanced and such an amazing opportunity to talk to customers directly.
Yeah. Exactly. And you've seen so many consumer examples of where that that customer session
invested in and done the right way can can really be a huge moat and competitive
advantage. And it's easier said than done, but I think it's it's a it's a good reminder.
Yeah. I think even I'll I'll give just another anecdote there. Just last
week, I met with our head of customer service at BodySpec, and, you know, we're in health
and wellness services. And our first time clients, I think, get a little bit of a
shock when they get their results and their first scan, and
we've realized that those interactions with our customer service team just
totally changed the tone of the customer. They really just needed to talk to someone. And we've now
I I submitted, like, five dev tickets about where can we actually push talking to
our customer service team, you know, on the results page and the account page and emails and
really sort of, you know, proactively put our customer service team there and ready to go
and help. You know, does that increase our repeat rate, you know, significantly? So
I think a hundred percent. I I believe in the customer experience for sure.
Yeah. That's amazing. That's great to get a a good recent, learning example,
from your current experience, which is which is great. You kinda talk a little bit about what growth teams get
wrong, and and you touched on easy to get sucked into the numbers as we kinda kicked off
with. Any more examples of that or any more you wanna say or elaborate on that topic?
Yeah. I think I think just in general, it's easy when you're forecasting
putting together a budget or, you know, a hypothesis around a test.
It is easy to say, okay. This is the CPM. Here's, you know, our conversion rate. Here's where we think
this is gonna land. But if you don't step back to think about the human side, whether or not it's,
you know, like, is this creative, like, good and interesting?
Or, you know, is there seasonality that we're not thinking about? Or, okay.
If I extrapolate these cohorts, we should land at this revenue
number at the end of the year, you know, broken up by month. But when I
look at the numbers, it doesn't make sense that we grow, like, twenty percent one month, month over
month. So I think really, like, stepping back and thinking, okay.
What's going on in December? And what do we really think the
consumer mindset's gonna be? And what does that mean for our strategy, for our
team, for our forecast? And and I I didn't mention this,
but I think as I've, become more senior in my career, I've really found
just working very closely with finance and and, on
that planning and budgeting process has been they've been my my strategic
partner in my last several goals. You kinda nailed the next question
already without me even asking it. I was kinda going into the the notion of forecasting, and
you kinda gave a great answer already. But is there any other best practice or
tip around kind of getting that process right and getting that accuracy
in a place that you need it to be? Yeah. I think, you know, in a subscription
business or a consumable business, it's a little bit maybe easier
to do that that process. But I think a lot of iteration and, you know,
getting insights from the team, but not taking it at face value and really pulling it all together
and saying, does this make sense, is huge. I think another one
is, like, keep your network, you know, talk to people, join Slack groups,
and ask people, you know, what did you see in your first nine months, you know, exploring influencer
or affiliate? Did it you know, you might think affiliate pay for performance. Yeah. This is gonna grow like crazy.
And no, it's, you know, it takes time to gain momentum. And you want it
to grow fast, but that doesn't mean it will. And, you know, influencer, you know, sort of the opposite. Expectation
with
management or with finance and Absolutely. And say, that's why we're only
dedicating ten percent of the budget the first three months because we don't want it to, you know,
impact the weighted average CAC by too much. Yep. Certainly long term.
Yeah. That's great. Is there are there any obviously, kinda shifting
gears here, taking the home stretch, into some of the personal or is there
any book or resort like, book or something, especially, you know, you've you've been through a
transition of becoming a mom. It's a big change in life. And what's the love to hear your
learnings there and if there's been any tools or books or resources that have helped you kinda get through
that transition that's such a big one? Yeah. It is a huge one. I
think my biggest learning or what I've, had to learn quickly
is prioritization. And And I think also giving up some control, trusting
my team a bit more than maybe I would have before, and knowing that, you know, I I need
to be flexible business. And
but I think priority prioritization is key, and I think efficiency. I'm actually
really impressed with how much I can get done now in a shorter amount of
time. Because when you're when you're really committed, then you have kinda have to be you get it
done and you make it work. I think a support network is huge here too. I
think I've been really lucky. I live in a neighborhood with a lot of working
moms and just having people you can talk to and get tips from
is is huge. And an employer that I think is really kind of understanding
about, you know, the last minute, you know, pick up from daycare, get sick, and Yep.
It it's key too. Yeah. One hundred percent. It's cool to see kind of
communities and friends and people kinda, you know, wrap their arms around, you know, new parents,
and it's a it's a it's a change. And I think it's it makes sense, but
it's it's refreshing to see. And I think some new thing you know, things change and evolve, and you kinda my
wife and I have observed that in our experience. And so it's cool to hear that you're getting some good
community because I think that's a a huge aspect to all of this, figuring
it out as a as a parent and a and a hardworking, busy professional. It's it's not it's not
super easy, but it's it's pretty awesome. Yeah. It it is. Yeah. Are there,
any emerging startups or products that you, you know, someone who's ingrained in the
industry, like, find that you're kinda keeping your eye on or any that you wanna share with the
audience? Yeah. I think, and it might be becoming a mother and it might,
you know, being more in the health and wellness industry in my current role. But I
think one thing I've learned is, yeah, women's health greatly underserved, and I think
things are changing really quickly. You know, it was someone told me a statistic that there
are only two hundred doctors across every practice, you know, from
neurology to urology to gynecology to endocrinology
that focus on, menopause, which every single woman goes through. And
only two hundred doctors that, like, have any focus on that. It was just eye opening that
it's it's definitely underserved, and I think the tide's changing. And what
really opened my eyes to it was we, in my current, company,
we we do body composition scans, and you can test bone density and lean mass.
And we did a webinar on menopause because we were like,
oh, this is a topic that is highly relevant to our service. And we had
an expert come in and and and speak to people. And, you know, we have a pretty small
CRM, but over five hundred people RSVP'd. And Wow. It just
made us real and people were chatting in the chat box, and it was just such an
engaging webinar. And it made me realize, you know, people are hungry to
talk about this and get help and and have resources. Totally. I think the
companies that are in this space are are gonna do well. Yeah. I think I wanna
say might have been Texas Monthly had someone pretty prominent
featured that's launching something in the in the menopause space and, makes
sense. There's not a lot of something my my wife's looked into just from the hormone
therapy balancing perspective Yeah. HRT. Been well ahead of the menopause
stage, and I think that that's also kind of becoming quite quite popular.
So it's awesome to see that and love to see the business opportunity and the the help
for for women and make lives better. That sounds like a really exciting one. That's really
cool. What's something that, you know, you wanna share with the audience that maybe, people don't know about you? I was
pretty athletic as a as a kid, and, you know, I love sports and
trying to get back into it. But, tennis in particular is one. I I just love
it so much. I I'm lucky my my husband does too. So it's I think it's great to have
sort of a hobby with your partner that you both love doing. Totally. It's just fun,
and it's exercise. And there's just so much positive around it. That's great. I sort of
touched upon the foodie thing, but if you ever want restaurant recommendations or
recipe recommendations, I, I love trying new things,
and that's sort of my creative outlet for sure, making dinner.
I love it. Doesn't get any better than that. That's amazing. I'm I'm definitely
might have some, ideas, requests for for new places to try out
around Austin, and it's a good tennis community here too. I I've been really
I kinda re rediscovered tennis out here and knew that was something I wanted to get back to
myself. So it's cool to hear that you're playing, and, it's it's I think you're not the only one on the
spot who's called out their their love of it, and, it's a it's a pretty fun
sport. I'm I'm a fan myself. It's one of those sports too you can I mean, you see eighty year
olds playing and just fun to do something that you can do your entire life?
That's very cool. Well, Andrea, it's been a pleasure. You've got such great experiences across so many
different cool businesses and from ops to marketing to CS and
and just being a great marketing strategist and leader. It's been been cool to continue
to get to know you and learn more about your your background and really some good
quality learnings that you shared, which is just central to, like, all the things we talk about in the pod, and
it's it's been a lot of fun. So thank you. Thank you. It was great. Absolutely.
Absolutely. For for folks who wanna learn a little bit more about you and connect and
and and ask questions and and get to know you, what what's the best way for them to, connect?
Yeah. LinkedIn is great. Just search for my name, and I should pop
up. And if you're in Austin, always happy to grab coffee or just a
chat. Amazing, Andrea. Always a pleasure. I think we're due for another coffee in, in
Austin, and it's been, it's been great to chat with you today. Have an awesome day and your and a great
weekend. You too, Ty. Talk soon. Bye. Bye.