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The Endurance Matters Podcast, Hosted by Justin “BigMetz” Metzler, professional triathlete, is the ultimate destination for endurance enthusiasts. Join us as we dive deep into the world of endurance sports, from 5Ks to Ironman triathlons to Ultra Races, and everything in between. Each episode we'll bring you inspiring stories featuring athletes, trailblazers, and members of the endurance community. From the highs to the lows, this podcast will help us explore the limits of human physical and mental performance.
Whether you're a seasoned athlete or just starting your endurance journey, Endurance Matters is your go-to source for motivation, education, and entertainment. Tune in, lace up, and let's go the distance together!
Alright. Welcome to another episode of the Endurance Matters podcast. I am your host, Justin Metzler, and I am thrilled today to have remote, not in studio, Melanie McQuaid. She is an exterior world champion, Iron Man world champion. Honestly, she's a legend of triathlon whose presence and accolades span decades.
Justin Metzler:So welcome to the show, Melanie.
Melanie McQuaid:Thanks so much for having me, Justin. This is really exciting. I'm I'm just so honored to be on your show.
Justin Metzler:Absolutely. Well, I start off the show with an icebreaker question. So for you today, I've got this one. You have done so many races that my fingers got tired scrolling through the results sheet. But my question is, what is the best and most or most special place that you've raced, and what is the worst place that you would never go to again even if they paid you?
Melanie McQuaid:Oh, gee. Oh, no. Okay. I think the best place I ever raced actually was racing a World Cup in Annecy, France. Annecy, France is just a spectacular city with this incredible lake and this really old style.
Melanie McQuaid:Exactly what you would picture for your typical European mountain town. Best trails is beautiful. So Annecy France was probably a top of all those races. Wow. The worst.
Melanie McQuaid:We went to some, you know, pretty rough and tumble places for mountain biking. I think by and large in triathlon we're pretty lucky. Like, these these towns, like, you have a body of water that you're capable of swimming in and you and then and particularly for Xterra with trails, like, almost all those the Xterra venues are spectacular because, you know, if you like the mountains. Gee. Okay.
Melanie McQuaid:I think oh, that one's tough. I think one town that, like, had really nice people but maybe wasn't oh, man. I I don't wanna be crapping on anybody's town.
Justin Metzler:You're Canadian. You're so nice.
Melanie McQuaid:I I can't. I can't. I can't. I don't because, you know, there's you go to these towns, and we're there for the weekend, and maybe our experience is colored by the race experience or, like Totally. And, you know, there's, like, just something about that town that I didn't get the locals to show me.
Melanie McQuaid:And so, like, for me to disparage their community, I can't do it.
Justin Metzler:Alright. That's fair play.
Melanie McQuaid:Even even the worst place is worth that bad.
Justin Metzler:I I'm with you. I feel like the people really make it. Even if you go to a place that's pretty dumpy, there's always good people. I think, especially if you're there trying to race, like, there's always gonna be somebody who you meet or at least one thing you can extract from the experience that is a positive thing. So that's a fair, yeah, omission of an answer.
Justin Metzler:But alright. So let's let's get into it a little bit. Why don't you start off by telling us about yeah. I think you grew up in British Columbia in Canada. So talk to us about that and sort of yeah.
Justin Metzler:Like, what your upbringing was like and how you got into
Melanie McQuaid:Okay. Yeah. So my yeah. I was actually born in Ontario, which is, like, a province, like, far east. But my family moved to BC, we lived in a remote town named Prince George, which is, like, pretty far north.
Melanie McQuaid:It's, bears, minus 40 Celsius, you know, that kind of town. And and so I grew up in a pretty rural community, where we had horses. And so like I was a horseback rider. I did like rodeo queen. I was terrible.
Melanie McQuaid:But like I did stuff like that. You know, just rode my bike to school and whatever. I and I think my first, you know, the the first signs I really was into athletics was we live so far out of town that, I couldn't actually join the swim team because it was like 40 kilometers in each direction to get to the pool. And so my parents said, well, no, like, we can't drive you the swim team. But like I would go for like random swimming lessons because we live next to a river and I'd always see the swim team and I was like oh I want to be a swimmer and all this stuff so when I was in grade eight we moved to a town called Nanaimo and immediately I was like okay we're near enough the pool I joined the swim team but at that point I was already 12 and you know like it's kind of over from for swim team if you start quite late and and also I had like a lot of you know high school stuff going on so I actually spent about a year swimming with the swim team, and and I was dedicated.
Melanie McQuaid:I rode my bike in the winter. I rode my bike at 5AM. I I did lots of it. Went to, like, provincial championships. Had, like I was okay.
Melanie McQuaid:You know? But but I basically was spent about a year, year and a half as a swimmer, and then, and then I was in a pretty demanding program called the International Baccalaureate in high school. And so there's just lots of high school and whatever that sort of demanded my attention, and I dabbled. Like, I really enjoyed training and being fit. But I quit the swim team and I did the track team and I did the cycling team on my dad's bike, which in high school is not even close.
Melanie McQuaid:It's not even organized intramural sports. Like you know at that time it was just like ride a bike around which I was doing to get to school anyways. So like I don't think that there was anything about my early career that really indicated anything about anything. And it wasn't until I was about 20 and in university that I was at University of Victoria and we had like a really strong athlete named Alison Sider who went to UVic who was also one of the top mountain bikers in the world. And there just was so many the I could just draw so many parallels between, like, her development even though she was, like, well ahead of me.
Melanie McQuaid:Like, she's already 12 years, had already gone to the Olympics and all this stuff. But I could see that there was this possibility of being, like, a really good athlete. And I had a boyfriend at the time that introduced me to mountain biking. And then I got sort of talent ID'd for cycling. And so I actually had some early opportunities with the British Columbia cycling team to go and race on the road.
Melanie McQuaid:I went to Canada Games, which is like a, you know, a Junior Olympics type thing with no no ability. Like, it's basically like, hey. You like, no not ability, but, like, no experience. Like, they took us to nationals. I'd never done a time trial.
Melanie McQuaid:I was like it's like some of my, like, initial rides in a group. And and that year, like and that opportunity just sort of, you know, lit a lit a fire where I was like originally, I had been thinking, okay. I'm gonna be a doctor. I'm pre med. I'm taking all these science courses.
Melanie McQuaid:And then I was like, no. I think I'm gonna be a professional athlete only because I could see it was it was a remote, but it was, like, somewhat an opportunity. And so and so that is that was that.
Justin Metzler:I guess, like, fast forward a little bit in terms of how seriously you were taking that, what the training environment was like, and I think at that point, the objective probably the Olympic Games in 2000. Is that correct?
Melanie McQuaid:Yeah. So I came in and like I think '19 like I started mountain biking, went to the world championships in Vail in 1993. So my first year I made the national team. I went to world championships. And then right after that was at '19 the first.
Melanie McQuaid:Yeah, 1996 I think was the first time that mountain biking was in the Olympics. And so it materially changed, you know, all through that time the format of racing was changing. It's not unlike the experience that ITU athletes have had over the past few years because as like they are grooming a sport for the Olympics, how the sport was born and how people participated and raced the sport was changing. We went from these two and a half hour long loops in remote places and epic trails to more of the loop format. They started instead of the mass start, they started separating the elite field.
Melanie McQuaid:And I was part of all of that as it like, the first Olympics was '96, and I was, like, not on the radar for that one. It was, like, very clear who was going. But me I thought maybe for 2000. And so, you know, that was the the original part of my career. I actually had a professional contract in 1997.
Melanie McQuaid:I raced, like, the World Cup. My trade team was more continental, and so I raced for Rocky Mountain, which I think is a Canadian rite of passage. And and I raced the World Cup in Europe for quite a few years. And when 2000 rolled around, like as we fast forward, the Olympics that year were early and so as a result the team was selected quite early and I knew really early in the year that I was not on the Olympic team and that was sort of like a crossroads for me. Okay.
Melanie McQuaid:What am I gonna do with the rest of my year? Because, you know, the the Olympic year is so different. And and so I did have an opportunity to race on the road. I I became part a composite rider with a lot of with with some pro teams in The US. And and at the time when we were training for mountain biking, did a lot of road stage racing.
Melanie McQuaid:So I did, like, the two I had experience with the the two week Hewlett Packard women's race. So I'd like I had what would be the equivalent of like women's world tour racing? We did as part of our training back then. So it was pretty easy for me to get a start with a a race team because you know I'd done Redlands that year and all that stuff. So I basically thought okay well I didn't make them out to my team I'm not good enough for that maybe I'll try my luck at road.
Melanie McQuaid:And I had opportunities there and in that year at Nationals and before Nationals at a major stage race that was before Nationals I performed really well and I got selected to the National Team for the road. I went to France to race the road world championships and at that point I thought okay well I'm going to be roadie now. That same year I was invited by the team unlimited group to go race the Xterra in Hawaii and I thought oh that'll be fun like a bunch of the mountain bike team was going and that was their whole thing was to try and get the the best mountain bikers to race against the triathletes and maybe some runners and like to see who was the best out at like it was kind of like a novelty event that was fun. So I without a lot of training because I had been in France just before that doing the road worlds and all I did was get wet riding in the rain and crash at the world. So without much riding or swimming I went to Maui and and that race was like truly transformative because I was second.
Melanie McQuaid:I had an eight minute lead coming off the bike and still got run down in 10 kilometers which is pretty sad. But the prize money was like the most money I'd ever seen. The vibe was the best ever And it just kind of was a sport that really just matched sort of my athletic history in a weird way. So it just seemed like an obvious fit. And shortly after that, I joined the National Triathlon Center and was like, okay, I think that this is more suited to be the sport for me.
Justin Metzler:Cool. So how developed at that point were you as a cyclist versus, okay. I'm shifting completely into the triathlon world because you have the success. Were you still obligated to do some cycling or were you full on in the triathlon scene at that point?
Melanie McQuaid:There's a little wrinkle of negativity in there because I did have a trade team. Unfortunately, that trade team was run by like in a very unethical and, you know, he was later banned from the sport for issues with Genevieve Johnson, a young athlete. Like, I was on the Rona team early, and I think a lot of Canadians, maybe some people understand, like, the the history of Andreea Booth. So he I was, like, contracted to race with that team, and I would have, like, done fulfilled my obligations. I went to Redlands with the team that year.
Melanie McQuaid:I was top 20 as a domestique for the rider that won. And he told me I was too fat and slow and he was like not going to race me, which actually kind of pushed me like basically forced me into triathlon because triathlon and back to mountain biking because I wasn't allowed to race on the road. So I don't think, I don't know if originally I had any plans to like make this full transition that year, but he like forced my hand because, when you have a UCI contract you you can't race unless your team releases you so he wouldn't release me. So anyhow I then went and started training with the National Triathlon Center and kind of went like full on. I did some mountain biking that year and honestly like that year trying to do the triathlon program when you're a mountain biker.
Melanie McQuaid:And back then the triathlon program was really focused on like swimming and running, both things that at that point in my career I was very weak. So I did, but I did immerse myself in that environment. I didn't perform well at Xterra that year, but I learned a lot and so that became my immersion in the triathlon scene. I did some ITU all through 2001 and 02/02 as well as part of that you know development.
Justin Metzler:Cool At this point had you completely left academics behind? Are you saying okay the traditional pathway is not for me I'm a professional athlete here for the foreseeable future whatever that is cycling, triathlon, mountain bike?
Melanie McQuaid:I think it took me until 2006 to properly get my degree, but I did get a double major or I got a major in chemistry and then minor in biochemistry. So I I can't remember how I met. Like, because I did co op, it was taking me forever to do my degree anyways. So I would, like, work for a semester and then do school but I feel like by that point I was I may have been finished my classes but actually hadn't applied to graduate yet. So I think at that point in my career I was I was I truly believed that I was gonna be a professional athlete.
Melanie McQuaid:So I had no intention of going back for I I think I my dad reminded me that he paid for my MCAT and I didn't show up. So so I think I was I was I was all in.
Justin Metzler:As a triathlon coach, I'm constantly trying to monitor my athletes' well-being and health while we're trying to get all of the training done that they need in preparation for a race. And my process is sort of my athletes will go and they'll execute their training plan on a week to week basis. They'll leave me comments after those sessions, and then pretty much every twenty four to forty eight hours, I'll go in, analyze the training, comment back where necessary. But sometimes things slip through the cracks with that time frame. Athletes can always text me, but even then, I might be out on a four or five hour bike ride, not be able to see the text until later in the afternoon.
Justin Metzler:And that's where AuGo training comes in. This is a platform that uses an AI assistant to be able to analyze athletes' voice notes. So maybe those red flags of, hey. My knee is feeling a little bit funny. I'm feeling a little bit sick get notified to me sooner than maybe what happened in the past.
Justin Metzler:So this is a new totally new training platform. I'm really looking forward to implementing it with my athletes and seeing how we can maybe benefit and open up our lines of communicate communication and feedback if things do go wrong or if we wanna just optimize. So head over to augotraining.com. That's augotraining.com launching March 2026. Cool.
Justin Metzler:Well, I wanna definitely dive more into the Extero side of things. I wanna hear more a little bit about the training. I guess, like you alluded to it a little bit with going in training with the with the training center and maybe working with some of the ITU folks. It seemed as though you had this base of mountain biking. So walk me through the training.
Justin Metzler:So it didn't work the first year, but then it obviously did work the next two seasons when you won world titles again, or you picked up world titles, I guess three sort of in a row, three out of four years there, 2003, 2005, 2006. So what did you what clicked, I guess, over that period of time?
Melanie McQuaid:Well I think the important thing to the context of the time is that ITU Triathlon had a certain you know athlete type that was winning those kind of races and most most coaches really didn't understand what Xterra was in particular and so they certainly wouldn't know what the demands were of mountain biking. And so the reality was that like there weren't coaches that understood the specifics of my sport. And so when I was going in and training a program that was designed to help athletes that are really strong swimmers and really strong runners survive the bike, that program like lean too heavily on some weaknesses for me and didn't help me to maintain my strengths and so that's exactly what happened like I lost power and like I just couldn't ride my mountain bike because I was simply not riding enough, and I was swimming way too much. Right? Because, honestly, I I swam that much, and I got better, but I wasn't really like, it it wasn't required for my sport at the level of swimming that I could do.
Melanie McQuaid:And so I think it was just costing me too much energy that was drawing away from my mountain biking. And so in 2002, I I had the opportunity to stay in the center, but I kind of decided to take ownership of my own program. And and so I would be like a quarterback, and I would, you know, fit myself into the sessions as as best I could and be a training partner for athletes in the National Center. I I kinda stopped going to ITU races and and then went more back to some mountain bike races. And so I would train myself more as a mountain biker with, like, swimming and running alongside because running for Xterra is very much a strength run and a lot of uphill, and it doesn't require quite as much like, does, but it doesn't.
Melanie McQuaid:As, like, as much leg speed and tempo work and that because there's so much crossover from the mountain biking for that sport. And so the difference was that I just started coaching myself. And and that's where I think my deep dive into understanding coaching and and physiology and, like, what's required. And I took really detailed notes, and I would follow along. And I had great mentorship with coaches that really helped me to learn.
Melanie McQuaid:Like, at the time I had Paul Reichensburg was allowing me to be in the center, and he was originally my coach, but he was okay with me staying and then taking over because it was obvious I wasn't performing in my primary sport with the program itself. And then I had a coach named Hushang Amiri that, I because my mountain biking was still pretty good, I actually qualified to be in the National Cycling Center too. So I was sort of like sitting straddling these two centers that were out of the same facility. And and Hushang really, he was like a primary contact in in in mentoring me on understanding, you know, what consistent long term work is and also like helping to helping me to understand that, you know, you don't have to train everything all at once. There's lots of crossover and just being patient with development.
Melanie McQuaid:So he was a great teacher in understanding coaching in general. Then I also had another there was Dan Pru who ended up being like the mountain bike coach that coached a lot of world champions and Olympians. He actually also was a great mentor for me and when I would sit down with him and show him okay here's my annual plan like what do you think of this and like does this make sense and whatever and he's like it's amazing you know exactly what you're doing. These coaches were like really influential and giving me the confidence that I could do these things with being a sounding board to like help me to like puzzle like learn. And so I think I became my own best coach as a result of this like just having that sort of support network where I would just take the primary responsibility for everything and then I would just reach out in areas that I needed help.
Justin Metzler:Cool. Can you elaborate a little bit more for us, like, the nature of the relationship with the training center, I guess, like, on the cycling side and on the triathlon side? Because I think that's maybe not something, at least in America, that athletes really have access to. It's like you have training groups, have the National Training Center in Colorado Springs or whatever, but unless you're an Olympic athlete who's funded by a federation, you have zero accessibility to that. So how did you position yourself to be able to other than qualifying on the cycling side based off your results, how did you get this accessibility to the athletes, to the coaches, and to the facilities?
Melanie McQuaid:Well I think this was a really special time in triathlon. We had this triathlon center and their mandate at the time was to bring in good athletes and good training partners from elsewhere. And so I like, I think I was brought in because I was strong and could maybe, like, add something from a cycling perspective. I know that Greg and Laura Bennett came in and trained with Simon at that time in the center. So did, Bevan Dougherty.
Melanie McQuaid:So the Hamish Carter. So so they were like, hey, we're we're here training hard. If you wanna come here and train with us and help us, like, you know, help us get better by being a part of this, then you're invited. And so it wasn't as insular in terms of a national center that has, like, a primary you can only race ITU middle distance or whatever. Because at the time, I think, Greg Bennett was doing a lot of the nondrafting Olympic stuff.
Melanie McQuaid:Like, he actually wasn't even really as much in the ITU, scene anymore. So it it was a good time, you know, like, because that's how the center it was a good time to be part of that because it was a lot more open as long as and and I think there was fees associated with it, but you could come in and be a part of it. You were invited. Cool. Now that that didn't last, you know, like what as things progressed, it went back to like, okay, have a national team program that is only open to national team athletes, then that also failed.
Melanie McQuaid:And so what's happening now is what we had in the center is is now being resuscitated by the ninety four forward organization here in Victoria to try to bring back that opportunity to centralize excellence in Victoria and have this opportunity to have a variety of athletes that are elite from a variety of different sports create the ultimate training environment to bring the most talented athletes to the Olympics. And you know you cannot just have like you don't have enough athletes that are actually going to make it to the Olympics to create an environment for them to succeed. You need to have a critical mass of training partners and opportunities and exposure and and that's what they're doing. They're making Victoria the place to come for an amazing swim program, incredible trails to run on, and, like, you know, just reinforcing, like, what we had back there between 2000. And I I wanna say maybe up to 2006 or something.
Melanie McQuaid:I can't remember how long that lasted.
Justin Metzler:Cool. Yeah. I've been to Victoria one time. I raced a 70.3 there. And then good friend of mine, friend of the podcast, Matt Sharp, is from there.
Justin Metzler:And he speaks very highly of the Victoria area. Anyways, I am curious to hear a little bit more about that Exterra time period when you sort of come in, you dominate sort of shortly after you get exposed to it, you really get into it. Talk to us a little bit about the economics around Xterra at that point. Like, you mentioned coming second was the most prize money that you had made, but was it still enough for you to have a career so singularly focusing more or less on Xterra? And was there, I guess, established sponsorship and eyes on the races at that time?
Melanie McQuaid:So I like I think when I came in at exactly the right time for the rise of Xterra. So I think I want to say the first I can't remember. I might have won 5,000 US dollars at the Worlds that year. And like if I think about the economics of my lifestyle at that time, like I think that my life.
Justin Metzler:I got that.
Melanie McQuaid:Yeah. Living under I was living in a tent or I don't know how I survived on that, but like that was like an insane amount of money. Totally. And and so I I like I don't know. Survived.
Melanie McQuaid:And I like my parents weren't helping me. Like I lived in Victoria off. Like your ability to stretch a dollar when you're like, wanna do this is is incredible. But I'm sure I had lots of support. I said, I think that like some of my coaching fees and stuff like that I think I was helped out by, you know, the cycling thing.
Melanie McQuaid:Might have qualified for a level to like reduce fees for the triathlon center. So it was more like, go to races and potentially win some money. So I was at the win some money phase of sponsorship early. I think by 2003, I started to get some more sponsors because in 2002 I was like I bombed out at the worlds. But, what was happening at that time is while I was, coaching myself, my mountain biking had a renaissance.
Melanie McQuaid:And so I would come out in the spring and I think I won like this this Cactus Cup McDowell mountain race like this early season Phoenix race. I think I might have won that one year but like and they're all the best mountain bikers were there and I was an exterior athlete at that time and so I was getting some attention from a mountain biking perspective. And then one year at Sea Otter I think like this is fast forwarding to maybe 2004 or 02/05 but one year at Sea Otter I won the short track and I was to, like, top five overall. So these were the top mountain bikers in the world, and I was competing at that level while I was a triathlete. And and that was sort of, like, allowing me to get some sponsorship from the cycling scene and incorporate those races into my schedule.
Melanie McQuaid:And then also the prize money for Xterra, I was by the time it was 2,003, I was starting to, like, place first or second at everything. And those races were about 2,200 to win. And so if, like, you came first, second, or third, you're probably making, like, you know, like, at least at least $1,500, let's say, for going. And that and, again, since I was a dirtbag, I could afford to go to races. And there were lots.
Melanie McQuaid:And that is the different economics of Xterra is that we had, eight races a year. You could recover and do two in a row in one trip, and and there was a homestay program in place early. So I never paid for accommodation. And, like, for I I raced Xterra for probably twelve years, and I went back to the same place at least 12 times sometimes. So Cool.
Melanie McQuaid:The economics of it kind of made sense because there was a pro support network in place.
Justin Metzler:Cool. Yeah. I can resonate with that quite a lot because Jeannie and I were doing kind of the same thing early in our career, and I remember there was a period of time where I went back and forth to China six times in eighteen months, pretty much for the same reason because I could go and make $2,000 and Yeah. They would put me up in a hotel, and then I could get, like, maybe get on the podium and get a sponsor bonus and then come back with $3,000 and that was our rent for six months. And so, anyways, I I understand the dirtbag athlete lifestyle really well.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. I I wanna talk a little bit more about the exit from Xterra and sort of transitioning to on the road triathlon. When did that happen, and why did it happen?
Melanie McQuaid:So I I think my last year real year of Xterra was 2011. And in 2011, a lot of, like, life things happened at the same time. So in 2011, I went to the first ITU Worlds for CrossTrap on in Spain and I won that and then I had like an incredible season. I won probably most races ever and I won the series and I think I won the Nationals and I was like a pretty heavy favorite for worlds and between nationals and worlds my relationship ended in a really like nasty way and I was not in a good mental place at worlds and then I'm sure it was like errors in preparation for that race, but like I had a major meltdown where I like collapsed 30 yards from the finish line after leading the race by again eight minutes coming off the bike. I DNFed that race.
Melanie McQuaid:And I think at that point sometimes you get philosophical about things and I thought in my mind okay well I think Hawaii is done with me and so I think that it's time for me to move on and certainly I was supported in that decision by my move to Trek because I I made it to the Trek factory racing team, was, like, easily the highest level and most professional organization I've ever been a part of. It was it was a career highlight to, like, actually make it to that team. And and I think, like, during that time, they're like, hey. We really like the fact that you're so versatile, and we support you in doing that. But, know, we are a triathlon team, and we do sell time trial bikes.
Justin Metzler:Sure. Yeah.
Melanie McQuaid:So the more you wanna ride that bike, the more we're on board with it. And and and and so when I was considering that, I was like, you know, I've won everything in Xterra and multiple times, and I think I'm I've I've achieved my goals there, and it's time to turn the page and and do something new. And and certainly, like, athletes like Julie Dibbons that came into Xterra and were, like, doing really well at both sports were inspirational in that regard. And and so then I started to, like, investigate Ironman. Now the thing about that is that there's no question that my physiology when I said I was really talented for Xterra, like, I really am that is really how I'm built is to do short, really powerful, and stochastic efforts.
Melanie McQuaid:Like, I would be like, if I had, like, pursued, I would be a super sprint. Right? Like that's actually like how my muscle fiber typology would trend. And so Ironman and long rides and long distance running were not my talent. And so the good thing about Ironman was it was like a real experience in, you know, like the hard work over talent sort of thing, whereas Xterra was a lot of talent without the hard work in advance because it really wasn't a sport need for me.
Melanie McQuaid:And I'm really thankful that I had that opportunity. It was a journey, and I didn't really get to the full Ironman until I was 42. And the reason that I kinda ever continued all this because I never wanted to go to Kona. You know? Was like because, like, I I am very, like, realistic about what my capacity is.
Melanie McQuaid:Hot and long was not my deal. But it was like somebody told me when I was 37 that I was getting old and and I think that like like just sort of like little chip on my shoulder like on fire. And I was like, what are you talking about? Like, I'm not slowing down at all. Like and so I think that, like, in the back of my mind during that time, it became like a crusade of, like I'm gonna show you that I'm not slowing down at all even though you know here I'm going to something harder for me but I was like I like I'm gonna prove this like there's 37 isn't old and so I just carried on in that regard and even when I made it to my first Ironman at like I finally decided to do one at 42.
Melanie McQuaid:That's all anybody was talking about is how old I was at 42, not like what my potential was. And and I'm really thankful that I did that because I don't think people are saying that quite as much anymore.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. What do you think sort of allowed you to have that mental freshness? Because you at that point were already in the sport, in elite sport for twenty something years. And at least for me, I'm coming up on almost twenty years in triathlon, and I'm only 32. And people are already telling me, hey, dude.
Justin Metzler:Are you thinking about maybe hanging it up sometime soon? And I'm I'm starting to think about it. And just because I'm getting the same sort of comments that maybe you were getting at 42. So I guess what what helped you sort of mentally stay engaged when you're sort of getting those comments? I know you said that put a chip on your shoulder, but was there any little voice in the back of your head that was thinking like, oh, maybe they're right.
Melanie McQuaid:Well, like this is this is some advice that I give to all athletes no matter how old they are. And in particular, it's the young ones that that ask me like, what does it take to make it? And I mean, like, you're gonna as a coach now I'm gonna put my coach hat on. You can obviously see the athletes that come in with talent. You know, they rise really quickly.
Melanie McQuaid:They have these skills that they've never been coached for and this aptitude that just exists. Right? And so, like, certainly there's a sorting hat where the really talented just sort of are right away. And then you have, like, medium talent. Like, okay.
Melanie McQuaid:There's probably adequate ability here, but then you have that this something else. Like this, like, first off, it's a work ethic. It's a it's a certain amount of discipline. And how I would describe it is, like, unshakable belief in their potential. And I think that that is the main thing that has allowed me to, like, continue this long is I was just so stubbornly resistant to other people's opinion of my potential.
Melanie McQuaid:And, like, if if I heard something negative instead of being like, oh, damn. They don't think I'm good enough. I'd be like, I'll show you. Right? Like, it's it would always be that response to that sort of feedback.
Melanie McQuaid:And I think that is I if there's any one thing that like, certainly, like, you're not gonna overcome, like, a complete lack of aptitude. Like, I'm never gonna run a two forty marathon off the bike. Like, I'm I would never no matter if I was 25, like, that's just not how I'm built, and so I was never gonna win Kona. But I, like but I got to as good as, like, I did very old because I just always believed that my training was gonna work, and and it makes a huge difference no matter how old you are.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. I resonate that with a ton with that a ton. I just raced Pukon two weeks ago, and I made a social media post after the race saying, I view everything as a challenge and nothing as a threat. Sometimes that gets in my way. And I think you need to sort of sift through that, but sort of that stubbornness, I think, is really important for athletes that don't have immense genetic talent.
Justin Metzler:So that's really cool. You mentioned putting the coach hat on. I want to dive a little bit more into that because it seems as though that's something you're passionate about and I'm passionate about as well. So let's dive in a little bit more on that. I'm curious because you had such a long career that spanned decades with multiple people who were either mentors or coaches.
Justin Metzler:What were maybe some things that you extracted from those coaches that you take on board with your coaching style today and some of the things that you maybe observed and discarded?
Melanie McQuaid:Right. Okay. So I think I think first, like, I think a lot of athletes don't actually ever have a really great coaching relationship. They don't actually know what it's like to have a good coach. And I would say that, in my very early days, like, I met, Peg Moss was her name at the time, and she's the one who ID'd me for the for the Road National team.
Melanie McQuaid:And she was an example of a great coach who who basically said, here's some opportunities for you. Here's what you're good at. Like, I'm gonna try and, like, help you to, like, open these doors. And then I, like, also had some really bad coaches who were like they would just apply a program that was designed for somebody else and just say, okay. This is what you're doing without any, like, regard, observation, monitoring, or, like, consideration that, like, for probably five straight years, that program did not work for me.
Melanie McQuaid:Right? So so I think that a lot of my takeaway from some early experiences with coaching, particularly in cycling and some and like a similar thing when I I I did have a coach once for 70.3 where it was, like, patently obvious that I was paying this person to take their program and just apply it into mine in training peaks. Be because they wouldn't even change, like, the watts. Right? Like, I'm like, I'm not capable of that.
Melanie McQuaid:And then I would go out and do that and kill myself. Right? So I had a couple of really bad years of seventy point three trying to have a coach, who wasn't coaching me well. So so I think, like, the the I understand what I would want from a coach as a coach because I've been an elite athlete where it matters a lot, like what I'm doing every day, what the communication is like, and and and how that program is laid out. And so that and I like, in in my mind, there's a there's a few aspects of coaching that I think are really important for people to understand when they're vetting their coaches because coaching is not like the program.
Melanie McQuaid:Actually like the actual like essence of what the workouts are is not actually that important. And a lot of people try to sell, like that I have magic workouts that make all the difference. And that that is not true. And I'll I'll kind of I'm gonna make a metaphor that I think really illustrates my point in this where like what I think a coach is the closest to of another like job is a coach is more like a teacher. Right?
Melanie McQuaid:And so if you're in school and you have a teacher and they sit at their desk the entire hour of the class, and then at the end, like say, okay, here's your homework. This is what you're gonna go home and do. And then they leave it on the board and then they leave. Okay. That's one kind of coach.
Melanie McQuaid:Or you have a coach that spends the hour presenting you a concept, goes through it with you. Like here's like the, this is what you need to understand about all these things. Make sure that you're like maybe you're on board with like okay do you understand this? Do you have any more questions? You can come to me after class and ask more questions if you want to.
Melanie McQuaid:Okay and then you're going to go and experience what we're talking about here with this homework that's on the board. Okay. That is a coach. The coach is teaching you something about yourself and every coach in the meantime actually has to learn something about you and how you learn, Right? Like if you don't, if you have a hard time reading and they give you a bunch of pages, you're not going to learn.
Melanie McQuaid:Right? They have to give you some way that you're going to absorb this knowledge. The same applies to a coach. A coach like cannot scale a real coaching relationship. It's time.
Melanie McQuaid:Like you simply cannot have a 100 athletes. There's not enough time. And you every time you work with athletes, you might have two athletes that are like, you know, physically the same. Maybe like they even have the same strengths. And maybe they both have a D1 swimming background.
Melanie McQuaid:Maybe both of them are terrible at cornering. You know? And both of them like kind of, you know, don't like running, right? But you can have these two athletes that may be on paper and maybe with some testing, with some numbers, they look the same, but they respond to training like an entirely different way. And it takes a good coach to like learn and help athletes to learn about how they experience training because that is the most important thing you need to learn as an athlete.
Melanie McQuaid:Like what is working for you? Like what works? And the sooner that you can get to a place where you can describe that, coaches are making educated guesses on what the best like, approach might be to, like, getting you to your goals. And they just, like, course correct according to feedback or, like, feedback either subjective from you or, like, objective from measurement. But ultimately, it's like taking an educated guess on what's gonna work for you.
Melanie McQuaid:And the longer you work together, the more likely you're gonna get these guesses right. But I think that athletes need to understand that that's how coaching is really coaching and it's not some magical program because you like it's not the workouts. It's the it's it's really figuring out what is what's gonna work for you and teaching you that so you you have better language and understanding of how you respond to training.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. I am curious to hear your perspective in this day and age of people like you and people like myself who are really passionate about triathlon who have been in the sport for twenty years have actual physical degrees, but also immense degrees by experience. How do we preserve what is defined and what we agree is defined as good coaching versus something like AI versus something like the person who's done triathlon for two years and done Ironman and now marketing themselves as a coach because they've done Ironman U or Training Peaks level one or whatever it might be. Like, how do we ensure that there's a differential between people like us who really are passionate about coaching and have the understanding of what it takes to be a good coach and how to pass along that information and how to teach versus the other people who are just saying, I'm a coach and I'm doing this in addition to my job at whatever.
Melanie McQuaid:Yeah. Well, I think I think first thing is, like, maybe communicating this and explaining that there is a difference. Like, I think that once you've been an athlete for long enough, just like I said, I've had lots of bad coaches, and I've had some really great coaches. And I've also had some great mentors, you know, that I I think that, like, there there's experiential learning that I think, like, pro athletes get because they have access to high performance coaches that generally can be good, but not always. Right?
Melanie McQuaid:And being a teacher requires a lot of communication skills and communication interpretation. And one of the most meaningful mentorships I had was with Dan Paff, and he's from like sprinting. Right? He's from like he coached really fast Olympic sprinters. So it's it's not that close to endurance coaching.
Melanie McQuaid:So none of the workouts really are important. So we never really talked about like context of training. Like, I did learn a lot about biomechanics and, like, skills from him in one of the four years we worked together. But one of the things that he worked with me a lot on is, like, like, understanding communication with athletes and reading athletes and different, like, personality types and, like, the emotional side of relationships, like, being able to, like, respond to things versus react so that you you maintain, like, the like, your ability like, you help athletes to navigate the the the emotions of this stuff and, like, building trust and buy in and and all that kind of stuff. And I just think, like, when when you're like, I've never advertised my coaching.
Melanie McQuaid:I just get athletes. I generally retain athletes, and they tell other athletes. And I'm never gonna have a big business. And I just think, like, you you you either are the CEO of an empire of coaches that vary in ability. Right?
Melanie McQuaid:Like like, the the coaches that work under you, some of them are gonna be good and some of them are not gonna be good. But if your whole, if your objective is to make money and build a really big coaching business, generally, you you start to drift away from the actual coaching itself. And so I think that it just depends on that person, like, meaning the coaches, long term objective in terms of, like, what they want as a coach. I identified it really early on that I don't really enjoy the business side of coaching at all. I don't like it.
Melanie McQuaid:I don't advertise. I'm fortunate in that I don't need to make millions of dollars. I just need to, like, make enough to feed my pug and buy him toys. And, you know, like, and I just enjoy the relationships and the coaching stuff. And so so that works for me.
Melanie McQuaid:But like different coaches, I I I empathize with the fact that it's like I said, it's hard for athletes to vet their coaches and understand the difference between, like, a good coach and and and another. And and that's why I always, like, encourage people to talk to people about what it's like to work with coaches. And, also, like, I I think it's one thing for, like, an like, age group athlete. So let let's let's talk about an age group athlete and their goals. Now some athletes are gonna get better if they just do anything.
Melanie McQuaid:Right? They just are active. And and those athletes are not gonna learn a lot technically. So if they don't, like, know what they're doing, they're probably not gonna learn a lot technically, but they're probably gonna be more active than before, and AI might be enough. If it motivates them to do anything.
Melanie McQuaid:Right? They're like, you you can it's like eggs against the wall. If if you just keep, like, be generating some aerobic fitness, you're probably gonna improve in the early stages. But as you get better and you and you want to, like, start to fine tune your ability and climb the the ranks, the like, the specifics of what you're doing are gonna become more important. And that's where I I don't think that AI has any capacity to to to be sensitive enough to really understand this.
Melanie McQuaid:Like, I I signed myself up for AI, and I'll give you a perfect example. The first thing it asked me was to put in what my 400 meter long course time was for swimming so I could, like, determine my swim program. Right? And so I put in what my time is, and I it didn't ask me what the volume I did was to acquire that time, the frequency of swimming, like what my thousand meter, what my 50 meter and just like what was this time. And then it comes back to me with a program where I would then swim like 1,100 meters three times a week.
Melanie McQuaid:Right? And at the time, in order for me to acquire that pace, I was swimming 25 kilometers a week. Right? Yeah. So it like, just in terms of even, like, benchmarking your start place, AI does not have the capacity to so for me, it would just never even be close to, like, understanding at all what it requires for me to do what I do at 52.
Melanie McQuaid:Right? So that's where I would like be cautious. And also like the other problem with beginner athletes is like that, like, AR programs are really dependent on the quality of the data that you feed into the algorithm. And if you're just a cyclist, very often like it's pretty it's more foolproof to like constantly feed data from a power beater because the constraint of movement is less. And so the quality of that data is more consistent.
Melanie McQuaid:But when you add up like swimming and running like it can't tell like your run was hilly or you're tired and so your cadence is lower or like whatever right like it just cannot parse that data and so you are in most cases, from what I can see and what I've discussed with other coaches that have used some of these platforms is that it generally under trains you, which is kind of good because like at least you're not getting killed, but it's also not gonna work for athletes that are really trying to maximize their ability.
Justin Metzler:Yeah. A 100%.
Melanie McQuaid:Now, so that's AI, right? So that's just my, it just Cole's notes. And obviously I'm very biased because I offer a very like customized one on one sort of solution for people. So I have a huge bias in this. But I don't feel at all threatened by AI, because it's not anything that's going come close to what I think real coaches are doing.
Melanie McQuaid:But one of the things that I have some skin in the game with and I would caution for professional athletes is that, you know, there's a real professional athletes tend to then choose their coaches based on a coach that coached other professional athletes.
Justin Metzler:Yeah, for sure.
Melanie McQuaid:Right? And so they so the same coaches get athletes. And some of those coaches are amazing and they should get those athletes because they're really good. But the the it's like the statistics, the likelihood of you coaching another pro athlete depends on your coaching a pro athlete. Correct.
Justin Metzler:For sure.
Melanie McQuaid:And so I think coaches, like athletes are going to coaches looking at what the athletes have accomplished, not looking at what the coach has done. And so it was interesting. I was talking to like a pro athlete. This was like back when I was like trying to think about getting a coach. And she told me that she had a three strikes, you're out rule with coaches where if she got injured three times, she would then move to another coach.
Melanie McQuaid:And that's probably the most intelligent way of objectively measuring your relationship with a coach because the number one driver of injury is programming. So athletes are going to these coaches because they've had access to talent that's able to do like amazing things, and they haven't looked at the injury rates and the athletes that did not survive. And most of the time, these coaches become top of mind because they've had this success. And the avalanche of pro athletes that go to that coach so they have these numbers is based on, you know, like, outlying talent. And so I think that this is something like, whether you're a really high performing age grouper or you're a pro athlete, you need to look at, okay, type of athlete is this coach working with?
Melanie McQuaid:What kind of development? Like, did they just get a good athlete and like carry on with them for like a year and they were still good? Or did they get a good athlete and they weren't as good? Or like, what did they do that actually changed the performance of that athlete in a good or bad way? Cause I think that's super important.
Melanie McQuaid:And also like what kind of athlete are you? Because like I said, like how you respond to training, I think by the time you're a pro, would hope that you would know that. But what kind of athlete are you? Like, are you like a, you know, a a macro absorber or a micro adjuster? Like, are you a person who, like like, basically needs a little bit of training, but the exact right amount and a little bit too much and you're over the edge?
Melanie McQuaid:Or are you just, like, throw the kitchen sink at you and you'll just absorb it all. Right? So coaches have a bias, and and that I think is, an important thing to know when you're deciding. And and so I'm I'm approaching this question from a professional trying to say to these young professional athletes, vet your coaches, because like there's this backlash against coaches because some athletes think it's the coach, but maybe you just didn't partner with the right one. Right.
Melanie McQuaid:And like, think about that stuff in advance. And I, there are very good coaches out there. And like I said, it's not something that you can scale. So you can't have lots of athletes at once, especially if it's pro. But I do think that most professional athletes will do better.
Melanie McQuaid:I wish that I had created a a, like, a good relationship with a coach earlier in my career rather than trying to farm this out in, like, like, multiple pieces. I just didn't have, like, the right coach available to me at the time. And then by the time I was, like, old, there was no coach that had experience with being old. And and I was my again, it was kind of like in the time of my XTERRA career where I was the best advocate because I was trying so hard to learn about it. But I think that a lot of professional athletes will definitely benefit and push their career further, faster with a good coach relationship that they vetted properly.
Justin Metzler:Nice. Awesome perspective. And, this has been super fun getting to know more about you and more about your backstory and your coaching. I think if people want to learn more about your coaching or what you have going on in 2026, they can find you Instagram, milradcoaching, where else?
Melanie McQuaid:I have a website. It's melrad.com. So a little bit of stuff about, like, things that my squad is doing, but Instagram is probably the easiest place to find me as well.
Justin Metzler:Okay. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show today, Mel. It was great chatting with you, and hopefully we'll see you again soon.
Melanie McQuaid:Alright. Thanks so much, Justin. I wish you the best of years.
Justin Metzler:Thank you very much. Cheers.