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Conversations about things that interest me… until they don’t. Because new = shiny ✨
Featuring cool people and unbridled banter.
Dive in. Jump out. Rinse. Repeat.
But for now, I'll get going now that we've composed ourselves after a good laugh. So welcome to another episode of Shiny for the Moment. Today, I'm joined by Dave Axelgard, my former boss and work husband of many years, many fond years, who left me for a stint at Metta but is now
Dave Axelgard (04:42.392)
Accurate.
Erica Alshuler (04:47.246)
currently a director of IP product at Epic Games, AKA my kids think he's awesome, because Fortnite. And now I just get to call him a very good friend who's one of a rare few who gets me to talk on the phone since he moved across the country. I don't do that well. And admittedly not a podcast listener, he says, but he is a former podcast host, which we will unearth and talk about at some point.
an overall wonderful human and father of two, who introduced me and slash referred me to the incredible Sherri Cannon, which I realized is such a strong name and I came up with a nickname for you while I was putting this together. It's soft and sweet and then like, you know, strong. So it's like Cherry Bomb and that's my new name for you. So, Sherri Bomb. But, but seriously you, Sherri is an entrepreneur
sherri cannon (05:39.278)
I love that. I do. I love that.
Dave Axelgard (05:39.6)
I like it.
Erica Alshuler (05:45.986)
has a gentle spirit and an easy smile and powerful words, who has decades of coaching experience in the executive world and through her own ADHD coaching business of which Dave and I are both clients. I'm thankful to become come her friend and excited to let you all hear from her today. So welcome Dave and Sheri.
sherri cannon (06:07.266)
Mm-mm. Yay. Great to be here.
Dave Axelgard (06:10.392)
Thank you. This is very exciting.
Erica Alshuler (06:10.494)
Welcome, welcome. And so, yes, we have not been the three of us together, as Sheri noted when we joined the call, but we talk about each other a lot. So that's good. That's always good. Right? There's a pre-approved list of people that we're allowed to talk about. Sorry about that. I swear she's great. Quick admin note, if I were listening to this
sherri cannon (06:23.722)
Here goes all that coaching confidentiality thing. Yeah.
Dave Axelgard (06:30.608)
That's right.
sherri cannon (06:31.734)
Right. Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (06:39.442)
I'd get all fired up and excited about something. I'd want to look up Sherri and give her a call or like research a nugget that was dropped, but I'd be listening to a podcast and doing 10 other things and I wouldn't be able to do that. So don't worry, I got you. I'll share all the links in all the channels so you don't have to do any note taking or mental indexing. Just listen and enjoy. And oh gosh, there's so much to talk about.
Dave Axelgard (07:03.781)
And I'll be offering a thousand free VVUX to the first hundred listeners.
sherri cannon (07:06.978)
Hehehehe
Erica Alshuler (07:09.206)
Ooh, that's gonna be real, by the way.
Dave Axelgard (07:11.456)
Everybody, everybody pause for a moment so we can edit that out. Nice.
Erica Alshuler (07:14.63)
Nope. Leaving it in. Okay. So we'll continue the kickoff. I'll say a few more things and then I swear you'll get to talk. While this podcast is not about ADHD overall, it's not an ADHD podcast, its name and its spirit are most definitely derived from that because Sheri and I talk all the time about what's shiny and drawing our attention and all the ideas that I've had,
Erica Alshuler (07:44.034)
died and lived in a graveyard somewhere were always because something else, anything else seemed shinier than the thing I was actually supposed to be doing. So that is where this was born and I've been able to keep it broad enough that I, for now, keep coming back to it. So there's no doubt that Sherri's influence is what got me to this point. And I don't
Erica Alshuler (08:14.218)
adult diagnosis. We all share this in common. It's a great place to start about how we came to be passionate about both professionally and personally about ADHD. And we can just see where this conversation takes us from there. So Sherri, I think you were diagnosed around the same age that I was when we first met. So 40-ish? Yes. Okay. So let us know
sherri cannon (08:37.261)
40. Mm-hmm. It was.
Erica Alshuler (08:41.506)
How did you arrive at this diagnosis and how did it explode your life in a good way, I imagine?
sherri cannon (08:48.694)
Hmm. I didn't think that there was anything wrong or that there was any reason to think about a diagnosis because I had left corporate in the dust, you know? So I had been out there then for like a decade doing my own thing, which as we all know, makes life easier in a way, you know, harder in a way, but easier in a way. And I was leading, I was doing public seminar work across the North America.
Erica Alshuler (09:11.16)
Yes.
sherri cannon (09:17.962)
And I was, I don't remember the town, but it would be nice to know that and celebrate the date. But I was in some town with a big group. So maybe like a couple hundred people in the room. It was a women's powerful communication skills for women workshop all day. And I had, and I always knew who I had in the room because the way that I calmed my nerves was that I got in early and I met a lot of people so that I could, you know, like shake a lot of hands and laugh with folks. And then I was fine.
And so I knew I had this whole group of educators over like to the left, right? There were always educators attending those things for like CEU credit. And at the end of the, no, yeah. End of the day at the break in the afternoon, these three women came up to me and said, we are having such a good time. This is such a good, good workshop. You're so fun and we're learning a lot. By the way, we've been discussing it. We wonder if you have ADHD.
Eheh
Erica Alshuler (10:16.706)
They just came up out of the woodworks and tried to diagnose you in a loving, flattering way.
Dave Axelgard (10:17.)
I'm out.
sherri cannon (10:21.742)
Well, they knew a lot about it. They knew a lot about it, right? They were teachers.
Dave Axelgard (10:24.964)
You know what, there's something magical there, just real quick, the fact that they understood it well enough, it's certainly better than you did, maybe it didn't even occur to them that coming up and telling someone that they had ADHD could potentially be construed as a burn. But they meant it as the deepest compliment. To me, that is such, that is the paradigm shift that has to happen generally. I'm slowly going through it, I know Eric is slowly going through it, but that is magical.
sherri cannon (10:41.922)
Sorry, oh.
Erica Alshuler (10:42.077)
Mm-hmm.
Dave Axelgard (10:53.848)
that they came up to and the way that they complimented you and your incredible work was by saying, have you ever thought that you might have ADHD? That's super cool.
sherri cannon (11:03.31)
It's great observation and you're right because I was finally doing something so in my wheelhouse that I just love, that I was lost in, like the things you do that you don't have to pee all day. Like I never had to go to the bathroom during the day ever because it was so fascinating until everybody was out the door. So that's it.
Erica Alshuler (11:22.766)
Everybody, that's the measure if you want to get diagnosed. Have you not peed all day while passionate it? Ha ha ha.
Dave Axelgard (11:25.612)
That's right.
sherri cannon (11:26.026)
You'll never have to, but you have to go for high interest. Very high interest is the thing. So anyway, that's what got it started. And so that's why I came back and I... Well, this is the truth and this is really bizarre. I'm telling you this story now because it has been clarified for me over the past few years that is exactly how it happened because my assistant at the time was a witness to it. But I forgot about it.
Erica Alshuler (11:36.278)
What was your initial response in that moment? What did you say in that moment? Do you remember?
sherri cannon (11:56.094)
And I actually recalled instead that it was two other friends of mine who were also both educators formerly. I was sure that Peggy and Marilyn were people who had said that to me. And over the years, I would say to them, I'm so glad you told me that, that you thought I had ADHD. And they were both like, Sherri, one of them calls me Sherita. She was like, Sherita, I never ever told you that. I'm very sure I didn't tell you that. It was my assistant who came back and said, oh no, I was there.
I watched the whole thing. So working memory, you know, there, there's that.
Dave Axelgard (12:27.809)
There is nothing there's nothing more ADHD than forgetting your own ADHD origin story that is excellent
Erica Alshuler (12:28.267)
Wow.
sherri cannon (12:33.457)
Exactly!
Erica Alshuler (12:34.018)
and replacing it with one that you've assigned a lot of emotion to, that you've now convinced is true.
Dave Axelgard (12:36.228)
That's right! That's right.
sherri cannon (12:40.275)
And I do have to say, things had to get bad for me to go get the diagnosis, like to be clear. So that was a great moment where they observed me, but some time elapsed, right? And then I think we hit one of the tech bubbles where all of my business got wiped off the books, you know, as happens, right? So everything went away and I was faced with this vast empty space of what now? Where I put my head on my desk basically and thought,
I bet it's a good time to really find somebody to diagnose this. So that's it. That's when I went. So probably within a year or two from that.
Erica Alshuler (13:17.982)
It's interesting, I know we've talked about this before, but there's two key parallels that are in my story, but I want to hear Dave's story before I then share mine and we'll go from there. I'm sure we're gonna have at least two or three things in the comments, so go ahead, Dave. All I remember is being in the office, our new fancy, like proper office, and you came in and told me and I was...
sherri cannon (13:27.799)
Me too.
Dave Axelgard (13:39.416)
Mm-hmm.
Erica Alshuler (13:43.686)
very jealous in all honesty, not because I thought I was, but because I was like, oh, now is this new self-understanding and medication? Like, what? I want to fix problems. Other than that, you were having dry mouth and an inability to eat. Those are the things I remember. Okay. Tell us your story.
sherri cannon (13:46.094)
I'm sorry.
Dave Axelgard (13:58.512)
That's right.
Yeah, that is the primary taker of ADHD is if you want constant cotton mouth and you never have to, you know, you never have to pee because you never have to eat or drink, it's great. Well, I actually have, you know, something in common as well in that there was a, there was a significant gap between when I got diagnosed or when I started to get the impression that I probably had it, when I got diagnosed and then when it started,
I would say getting in my way, if that's an okay way to put it. So I mean, if you ask my mom or really anybody who knows me well, like it was kind of a no brainer that I probably had it for a while. But I think that for me, the only way that it really manifested growing up was I would get bored in school and I would distract my classmates.
Erica Alshuler (14:35.976)
Mm-hmm.
Dave Axelgard (15:00.888)
That was because I'm the extrovert side of ADHD. And so when my attention was lost or my level of interest decreased below a certain threshold, I would turn to people and I would distract them. And so I spent a lot of second grade in the principal's office just for being a distracting and annoying little kid. But generally speaking.
Erica Alshuler (15:00.974)
Hmm.
Erica Alshuler (15:24.586)
From what I've read, that's typically a missed young female expression of it from what my understanding is that people picture the young boy who just is hyperactive and whatnot, but that women who are young girls are really just expressing it socially and that it often gets missed for that reason. That's really fascinating.
Dave Axelgard (15:47.429)
Yeah, it was interesting. I don't know that I was ever all that hyper. It was for me, it was more the inattention. That's always really been where my kind of landed. But yeah, so cut from second grade to age 27, so 2007. Everything in the middle of there was fine. I made it through college.
learning that the longer I procrastinated a paper, the better it would turn out, and got through just fine.
Erica Alshuler (16:18.326)
You even gave a great presentation on that to our entire team where we were all in awe of your self-awareness, but also not even connecting the dots and maybe that's not healthy, but it works. Hey, who knows? Maybe it is.
Dave Axelgard (16:21.55)
That's right.
Dave Axelgard (16:30.088)
It works. Yeah, that's the eternal struggle, right? So yeah, no, for me, there was no external, there was no actual anything that really pushed me to a diagnosis. You know, I had, I had always struggled with kind of the executive function, especially around like a lot administrative stuff. But as you know, I think we'll probably talk about at some point here.
I had been working at startups for most of my career up to that point. And early stage startups where I was employee number five or six. And as a result was able to sort of build a job that worked for me, right. And to build a team and build processes that worked with the way that my, that, that I thought, which I didn't realize I was doing at the time. It just kind of happened organically. And so, you know, I was able to kind of thrive. But yeah, in 2007, I was up.
at a friend's house up in Santa Rosa, California. We'd gone up north, I was living in LA at the time, but we had gone up north for just a road trip. And I was sleeping, we were staying at her house, my friend's parents' house, and I was sleeping in her mom's study. And her mom had gone back to school and was studying psychology. And I got nosy and started looking through her bookshelves. And there's lots of really interesting psychology books. And I found an ADHD book.
And I grabbed it and just kind of sort of, you know, fingering through it and came upon a quiz. You know, they love the quiz, right? And I wish that I could remember what the exact question was, but I hit this one question and it was so accurate and hit me so specifically, like I felt so targeted by this very specific question that I laughed out loud.
Erica Alshuler (18:06.352)
We all love a good quiz.
sherri cannon (18:07.69)
Love a quiz.
Dave Axelgard (18:26.516)
And then the next question was like, did you feel so targeted by that last question that you exclaimed out loud? And I was like, well, that's really weird. Yeah. And so yeah, when we got back to LA, I went to the psychology part of the UCLA down there in Reagan, the UCLA Medical Center in Westwood.
Erica Alshuler (18:38.338)
Get out of my brain!
Dave Axelgard (18:55.152)
and started going through, it was ultimately a very long process. It took about, the full diagnosis process was about a month. And it was, you know, me taking cognitive tests and with the psychologist, and then lots of surveys of my friends, my, my girlfriend at the time, my mom, you know, um, yeah. And so that, and that's, and then, you know, the diagnosis came and, and started working with a psychiatrist there, um, who was objectively pretty terrible.
It was very clear actually that from the entire process that it was really targeted towards children. That there wasn't really a spot or there hadn't been a whole lot of thought about how adults might feel going through this process. Which I didn't realize at the time, but I was internalizing as being rather infantilizing. Cause like I went in the waiting room, was like kids toys and tables and like, you know.
sherri cannon (19:46.008)
too.
Dave Axelgard (19:48.872)
little puzzles and things and very small chairs. And even a lot of the cognitive tests, like they felt elementary kind of. Anyway, and same with the psychiatrist. It was, you could tell that he didn't really know what to do with me. I think the best thing that came out of that was a-
sherri cannon (19:51.842)
You know.
Dave Axelgard (20:12.912)
long sort of like year and a half long exploration of all the different medications that were out there to try and find some that, you know, mitigated a bunch of the side effects that I still experienced for a certain degree of it. But yeah, and so, you know, that was kind of how I got to that point. But it wasn't until another 15 years later that the gap
specifically in my job, between what was interesting and what was important became so wide that it started to cause problems. And yeah, that was when I hunted down Sherri.
Erica Alshuler (20:49.762)
Hmm.
Erica Alshuler (20:59.822)
That's incredible. It's so fascinating and I'll tell my story briefly, but the things that I noticed or in common are that, Sherri, you had someone else bring it up to you in one way or another. Dave, yours was brought to you, again, via the form of a book, not a person per se, and maybe friends and things like that. And I, so, yeah, exactly right.
Dave Axelgard (21:23.876)
subtle jabs from family over the years. Yep. Ha ha ha.
sherri cannon (21:25.706)
Hehe
Erica Alshuler (21:27.614)
Well, and I wonder, I definitely want to get to later, and I'm trying to take some notes here, is how is that changing in adult diagnosis? And I think there's so many more people out there looking for a diagnosis versus having it kind of accidentally come to them. And that makes sense, people are talking about it more. It's a hot topic, and so people are gonna be thinking about it more. For me, I had been a psychology major. I could have thought about it then.
didn't. My dad and sister diagnosed, couldn't have thought about it then, didn't. But all three of us, another thing in common is that we were all relatively successful in our lives, right? So you weren't looking for something to fix until if it was working and not kind of connecting the dots about what pieces were hard and what were your strengths versus maybe your weaknesses or
Erica Alshuler (22:24.198)
I also similar to you Sherri was in this gap of work. I had just left work and yours was not voluntarily, mine was and I was doing a lot of the self care things that I needed to be doing. And one of those fun things I got to be doing was be the guinea pig for a friend who had to practice administering those cognitive tests that you were talking about Dave.
sherri cannon (22:32.139)
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (22:52.57)
And she, because she's getting her doctorate in neuropsychology and had to learn how to administer these. So I was her guinea pig. And whether or not it's kosher, she reached out to me after about what she was seeing in the results in just a friendly question and a text that just said, have you ever been diagnosed with ADHD? I know your dad and your sister are. She knows my family well. But have you ever been? And I was like,
No, it was never even questioned. It was never even a thought. And that's all it took was to that paired with the right moment of how I was feeling and what I was assuming was, well, all guilt and shame about lack of self-worth, not working, not able to get out of bed and actually do the things I knew I needed to be doing with this free time and actually pursue anything that felt meaningful or worthwhile. It just, the timing was so perfect. And so,
I was adamant about talking to someone but without seeding them or, you know, and trying to find the right psychiatrist to your point. That can be so hit or miss. So I got a referral to an amazing place that now I refer everyone to. And I walked in and just, you know, he said, why are you here? And I started explaining how I can't really get out of bed each morning because when I do then I spiral into my thoughts and land back in bed. And I started crying while I was talking about it. And he said, you know, you're...
I'm tearful, but I don't think it's because you're depressed, which I was very comforted to hear because that's not how I felt. I thought that would be the first thing a bad psychiatrist would do is just try to write me a prescription for something in antidepressant, which I was very opposed to at the time. He said, I don't think it's because you're depressed. I think you're tearful because you're frustrated because you know what you want to do and you're trying to do things and you're not succeeding. I've never felt it articulated so well. Then he said,
sherri cannon (24:43.734)
Wow.
Erica Alshuler (24:47.478)
Well, so what do you do about your ADHD? And I said, excuse me, because I hadn't mentioned that at all. And he's like, oh, well, I knew you were ADHD within 10 minutes of talking to you, so what are you doing about that? And I got to skip all the diagnosis stuff, so I had already done the tests and it was my visual working memory that had tipped off my friend, but that led me on the rabbit hole of then talking to you about it, Dave, and then you referring Sherri, and like I believe everything else, pairing.
medicine in and out of your life wherever it's appropriate with work, either that therapy or coaching or whatever that is. So here we are.
Dave Axelgard (25:25.061)
Or both. Let's be honest.
sherri cannon (25:26.198)
or everything, everything.
Erica Alshuler (25:28.35)
Yeah, all the things. Oh my gosh, for a while there, it was obnoxious. And again, I say this all the time on this podcast about how privileged most of the things I talk about are. I mean, I have a team. I feel like, oh, my team, I have my, my Sherri coach, my psychiatrist, my therapist, my, you know, I get massages, I get, you know, my regular doctor, my functional MD, my pelvic floor, physical therapist. It's obnoxious. And so how one has time to do all of this, I, there's only this period of my life. But.
Dave Axelgard (25:52.164)
Ha ha ha!
sherri cannon (25:58.018)
But here you are.
Erica Alshuler (25:58.326)
So we all have this in common. We are adults who were otherwise functioning and very successful in ways. And we uncovered this part of ourselves that has a stigma of either people don't believe in it because they go, oh, I have those problems too. Why should you be any different or get any special treatment? Or, you know, either met with that or, you know.
it's a problem that needs to be fixed and take medicine so that you aren't so forgetful and whatever to make it go away. So I think as adults in this unique position we're in where we have a lifetime of coping mechanisms, self-awareness, maybe some skills we've adapted, we're in a position to approach it in a different way than maybe a kid getting diagnosed, of course, or even a family working with their child. So Sherri, I'm curious.
Dave Axelgard (26:30.444)
Yeah, to make it go away. Yeah.
sherri cannon (26:32.278)
Yeah, make it go away, right?
Erica Alshuler (26:55.286)
With that in mind, what is the first thing most people, if you could summarize, if not understood, but is there something that everyone who comes to you is asking for when you're in a consultation and it's like, why are you reaching out to me? What is it that people are looking for?
sherri cannon (27:06.625)
Hmm
sherri cannon (27:10.506)
Yeah, in my brain right now, I'm working to synopsize or whatever you just said. I'm working to make sure that's what comes out. Let's see.
Erica Alshuler (27:20.634)
No pressure if it doesn't.
sherri cannon (27:22.794)
You know, what's across the board is that people can name things like prioritizing or, you know, what's important, getting started. Getting started comes up a lot, activating. But I think what's always there, especially because I give people three questions, you know, on the website, like just things to give me in advance. And it's not uncommon for ADHDers to write.
like a couple of feet long, you know, of narrative, right? Because we're finally describing ourselves to somebody who actually may be able to be in a position to understand it and to come up alongside. So it's always, it just often has that desperation. It's pretty rare even now for adults. I don't get too many clients who actually show up and say, things are just going swimmingly and, you know, I thought now would be a good time.
Erica Alshuler (28:05.282)
That's huge.
sherri cannon (28:20.694)
to check, I mean, it may happen, but it's not generally where we start, right? So it comes often from that pain of also masking, not being able to start, not being able to explain this, and also feeling that you're very broken. You know, there's something broken here, which isn't accurate, but it's what it feels like.
Dave Axelgard (28:20.88)
Hehehe
Erica Alshuler (28:21.686)
Hahaha!
Dave Axelgard (28:24.195)
Yeah.
Dave Axelgard (28:37.368)
Yeah, and that was, I mean, I talk about sort of that moment when that gap, right, the gap between interests and importance grew to a chasm, right? And up until that point, I think, I didn't really think necessarily of ADHD as a liability or as something that I needed to fix. I knew that
a lot of what made me good at the jobs that I'd done up to that point were intricately tied to ADHD. But over the course of 15 years, I guess, and a couple of different jobs that weren't quite as well suited, let's say, to...
neurodivergence as the ones that I had created for myself. And finally ended up kind of getting to a place where I absolutely felt broken, like 100%. Like I was stuck. And for me, like I was at a point, I mean, just to be totally frank, like the pandemic was a huge contributor to that for me because
Previously, I had a separation of at least, you know, 10, 20 minutes of driving between home, which I objectively care about Exponentially more than work with no effort at all And work which once I'm there. I absolutely care about right And all of a sudden those two things were smashed together and every day, you know when we first started we were up in Foster City and I was working from our bedroom because we had to you know,
two kids and each one was in their own room. Luna had just been born, my second had just been born, like two months into lockdown. And every day, I was a thousand times a day, I was having to make the decision, work or family, work or family, like right in my face all the time. And like I chose family, 90% of the time. And...
Dave Axelgard (30:59.848)
it was easy to do because if I was able to get objective and sit back and be like, well, what's objectively more important, work or family? The answer was always family, right? But then all of a sudden I was starting to fall behind work and aside from the fact that I wasn't, I needed as an extrovert, like I needed that exchange, I needed to be there with my people and so all of that was just gone. And it was such a dramatic shift on top of the pandemic anxiety, on top of the new baby anxiety.
And it just that was what got me to that point where there was a man I had I had lost connection with what made 80 like what about what it was about ADHD that made me great I had lost connection with all of the coping mechanisms that I had developed through like a normal, you know working career And was just yeah just drowning and it and it sort of calmated in I Mean the closest thing would be like a like a breakdown like a full-on
breakdown and that, and then like.
Erica Alshuler (32:01.046)
And that's how you came to find Sherri for support in this way. I mean, I think what you explained. Go ahead.
Dave Axelgard (32:04.168)
Yeah. I went to that. No, it's good. I went to some website. I don't remember which one it was and just started typing in for coaches, like for accredited coaches and filtered by ADHD and just sort of typing criteria in. And I think I think had eight that I cold called and you were one of them. And but that was within like a week of the breakdown. I was like, something had to give. And I don't even know what got me to that point.
Um, I wish I could remember that honestly, because it clearly changed my life, but yeah.
Erica Alshuler (32:39.454)
And something that, thank you for sharing that because I definitely also felt broken coming to Sherri. I was in a much like fresher state of my ADHD, not a renewed need, but something I saw when just looking at your website in preparation for this Sherri was, I had never really spent time in seeing your kind of catchphrase, whatever motto, whatever we wanna call it of, lose the guilt. Here, I wrote this somewhere.
lose the guilt, learn your brain and find your rhythm. And I love how perfectly that lends itself both to this conversation and where we are now, but the journey that almost everyone goes on. So step one of feeling broken for me and many others, because we feel like our brains are supposed to work in a certain way and then they don't and we compare ourselves to the rest of the world and feel guilty and shameful about our inability to get shit done or whatever, was to shed some of that guilt.
find community and help in you, and then move to learn your brain. So moving past the guilt part, which we could spend days on and we can feel free to jump in. I have a lot to talk about shame and guilt, but the learn your brain, that was the fun part of all this was then to move through that and start looking at patterns and looking backwards and current day to see the patterns, to see.
sherri cannon (33:48.17)
Yep.
Dave Axelgard (33:49.434)
Ha ha!
Erica Alshuler (34:06.222)
oh, now that explains why I behaved this way, or oh my gosh, it's so obvious in retrospect. But seeing those patterns and seeing how it plays out in your day-to-day life, so that then you could find your rhythm to your point or your statement. And so that learning your brain piece was the most fun part for me, continues to be the most fun part for me. Like we said, we love a quiz. And so I guess to both of you,
I imagine there's a lot of people out here listening who are thinking, I wonder if I'm ADHD or I was just ADHD, mostly adults. What were some of those patterns and learnings of your brain that stand out the most to you if you can think of them on the spot? Go for it. If not, I can rattle either of you.
sherri cannon (34:51.014)
That's fun. The one that comes up, oh, I'm sorry. We promised we'd apologize all over it. My, okay. The one that came to my mind is that I always without knowing it, once I went entrepreneurial, when I wouldn't be out with clients and groups, but I would be in that dreaded, and I'm an introvert preference, but nonetheless,
Dave Axelgard (34:54.704)
I mean, I got one. Sorry, go ahead. No, no, you first. No, no.
Erica Alshuler (35:01.35)
We did. Sherri, you go.
sherri cannon (35:20.386)
the being head down in an office or just that, just being head down, I didn't realize for a long time how much I had already added in that I would just sit up bolt right and know, oh, I need to go to a grocery store. I think that might be my prior consumer products thing and liking grocery stores, but I would just routinely run out to the local grocery, whatever.
And then I would just pick a thing, it didn't matter. I could buy whatever I could find, but it was really to say hello to people. It was to kind of do some, a little greeting. There's some of my extraversion. It was to move, because moving for me is like so important. And back to what you said earlier too, Erica, that for women so often, what shows up as hyperactive often, or at least traditionally for male, not that all boys are hyperactive either, but.
For women so often what it has been has been that anxiety and that hyperactivity goes internal. So it goes cognitively inside. It becomes this driving anxiety piece, which is why anxiety is often diagnosed, right? Prior to ADHD. So for me, it was this, I need to leave. I need to go do a tasky thing. Dave and I have talked about this, that has a start and an end. Pretty close together, that's useful. And I need to be able to really burn.
Erica Alshuler (36:30.712)
Mm-hmm.
sherri cannon (36:43.55)
steps and calories and then I can come back usually and settle back down. So that was one.
Erica Alshuler (36:49.078)
But get that dopamine hit of success, right? You did the thing, you finished the thing, and that feels good. For me, it was dry cleaning. I was like, I dropped off the dry cleaning, great day. I don't know why. Go ahead, Dave.
Dave Axelgard (36:49.165)
It's so funny.
sherri cannon (36:53.058)
Yeah. Yeah, change. Here you go.
Dave Axelgard (36:59.732)
You know what it was? So this is, at Zefr this is the company that Eric and I worked at together for a long time. I oversaw our product and content kind of team and also operations, which included facilities. And as the product and operations teams grew, I was routinely pressured by my boss, who was obviously, you know,
solely focused on that to let the operations part of it go. And I never did, and I never wanted to, and it wasn't, and it, because I'm a terrible delegator and a micromanager, no, but he was always trying to get me to let the, let the like facilities piece of it go, is what I mean. I was trying to let the facilities piece go, and I wouldn't, I never did.
Erica Alshuler (37:36.462)
because you didn't trust me, Dave. Just kidding.
sherri cannon (37:39.374)
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (37:52.1)
Oh, got it, yes.
Dave Axelgard (37:57.428)
And I didn't realize why until I started, you know, really researching and learning about my brain and realizing how important it was for me to spend three hours in meetings and you know, creating strategy or team training or whatever it was. And then to be able to like run downstairs and assemble and design a chandelier, right? Or install a big art installation on the wall.
Erica Alshuler (38:22.555)
Mm-hmm.
Dave Axelgard (38:26.656)
you know, help Derek, you know, move a ladder so that he could change some light bulbs, right? That the tactical, the tangible was what I needed. And I do this now, like, you know, part of what what, you know, I've done, one of the tactics that has come from working with Sherri, is that I schedule tactile breaks throughout the day. And in the summer, it's usually I'll go outside, I'll pull some weeds for just like a half hour, right? And it's...
limited, like I have to keep it and sometimes I stick to my half hour and sometimes I don't. But it's on the calendar. If it's in the wintertime, I'm in Minnesota, and so if it's in the wintertime, if it's too cold, I'll go replace a faucet in a bathroom or something, like some house project, right? And that has been game-changing to me, the intentionality of realizing how important it is for me to get my hands dirty, especially working in
Erica Alshuler (38:57.326)
Timers, timers.
sherri cannon (39:12.587)
I guess.
Dave Axelgard (39:24.176)
you know, digital video, digital rights, gaming and stuff. It's all very ephemeral, it's all very not real. There's something that has always checked that box in getting my hands dirty. So definitely agree with that. The other one, Sherri, that actually the first one that came to mind when Erica asked the question was something that came out of this, the very first book that Sherri had me read and we started working together, which is Your Brain's Not Broken. I don't know if we're allowed to plug official books, but everyone in the...
Erica Alshuler (39:37.934)
That's a big one.
Erica Alshuler (39:49.782)
I'll just link them, yeah.
Dave Axelgard (39:50.984)
Everyone in the entire world should go and check out this book, Your Brain's Not Broken. That absolutely changed my life. Yeah, it's an absolutely amazing book, published maybe three years ago, very recent. Very like, so like the, yeah, like the latest and greatest science behind all of this. And the piece that, you know, I have an inner critic, like we all do.
Erica Alshuler (39:53.762)
That changed my life after you both told me to read it. You told me to read it before I started working with Sherri and then I did.
sherri cannon (40:05.702)
Tamar-o-rosier.
Dave Axelgard (40:18.792)
And mine tends to be skeptical of my motivations a lot of the time. And so when I started thinking, I felt this gap between interest and importance widening, didn't know what it was, didn't know what to call it, but felt myself doing less and less of what was important like in my job, and more and more of what I was interested in, which was my family. I, you know, like I said, didn't really have a way to describe it, but.
my, that inner critic was like, oh, you're just lazy. You're just, you're not disciplined. It's not ADHD. You just, you just don't, you know, everybody has this and you just, other people work through it and you can't. And the, the fact, I know I am, I am weird and lazy. But, but the,
Erica Alshuler (40:51.219)
Mm-hmm.
Erica Alshuler (41:01.134)
I have no idea what that feels like.
sherri cannon (41:02.785)
Mm-hmm. Me either. You're so weird, Dave. Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (41:12.79)
Weird because you're lazy, because everyone else is amazingly productive and has no holdbacks.
Dave Axelgard (41:15.8)
That's right, that's right. But one of the many things in that book that kind of changed, that really shifted things was something super simple. She was like, yes, everybody does experience stuff like this. She's like, the difference between people with ADHD and people that don't have it is the frequency, duration, and intensity. And I was like, of course people can empathize with this.
sherri cannon (41:16.354)
That's right. Just killing it. Yeah.
sherri cannon (41:38.254)
There it is.
Dave Axelgard (41:44.116)
Everybody has a hard time starting projects sometimes, right? Not everybody has a hard time starting every single project that they have to do. Every single time. And it's so deep and so like, you know, that it is neurological, right? Anyway, that little bit right there totally changed how I thought about myself. Yeah, anyway. So that was the first one that came to mind when you said it.
Erica Alshuler (41:44.151)
Yes.
Erica Alshuler (41:53.418)
every time.
sherri cannon (41:53.937)
Yeah.
sherri cannon (41:58.894)
I'm sorry.
sherri cannon (42:11.726)
It's beautiful.
Erica Alshuler (42:12.475)
And that is how any diagnoses, you know, the DSM-IV, any psychological or, you know, turned clinical condition or whatever, you know, we call it, there has to be a line drawn in the sand somewhere to say this is more normal and occurs casually versus at this duration, frequency and intensity, it is...
now a condition that you can get help for. And it doesn't mean you can't take tactics from all the things we talk about in ADHD to apply to your non-HDH—there's a reason there's a better word for this. Neuro-typical is easier to say—life. Because they do apply to everybody. And that is where so much of the misunderstanding comes around all this. And I love that she highlighted that. And that when you—
sherri cannon (42:50.951)
Yeah, that's right.
Erica Alshuler (43:04.79)
had that called out early in your journey. And I think that's important that we all talk about that because as we've all discussed previously, we are met with a lot of skepticism, maybe increasingly less so, but then it's a pendulum. Now everyone's talking about ADHD. So now people are firing back at that of, you know, oh, well now everyone has it. So, you know, it's even getting less credibility. It really must drive you nuts. I can only imagine and yeah, go ahead.
sherri cannon (43:24.982)
Right, oh, this drives me nuts.
sherri cannon (43:32.255)
You know, I just want to put, I was just reminded that it's Ned Hallowell, who everybody who's listening, if you picked up any ADHD book, you probably found Hallowell somewhere. But Ned Hallowell talks about the difference between a societal trait of ADHD and the actual neurodevelopmental diagnosis of ADHD. And it's just what Dave said, right? Society?
Erica Alshuler (43:55.671)
Eww.
sherri cannon (43:57.362)
Absolutely. Society has the trait, the trait of ADHD. All these things are present there. And it goes right back to what you said, Dave, you know, for this human being, for the people on this podcast right now, it is not, it is not this thing that if only I try harder, and God knows everybody here has done that, that bit, right? If I just try harder, I can of course overcome this because that's what it is. It must just be, I'm not, I'm not trying. I can do better. I can do better.
Erica Alshuler (44:26.459)
yourself up by your bootstraps.
sherri cannon (44:26.734)
And that's why, yes, pull yourself up by the bootstraps, right? Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (44:31.454)
I love that so much, the societal trait, because a lot of people I admire, respect, are quick to say, oh, everybody's ADHD. Now our society did it to us, phones did it to us. And there are a lot of layers involved in that. And one of them is a societal trait and others are a possibly larger properly diagnosed population as we understand it more. So those two things happening at the same time are kind of confusing the sentiment around this.
sherri cannon (44:43.744)
Yeah.
sherri cannon (44:54.198)
Yeah.
sherri cannon (44:59.05)
Yeah, and I do feel like, you know, especially coming out of pandemic, that so many more of us are so much more virtual in our roles now, right, than we ever were before. So even just being able to catch it being said generally to a whole big group, like I'm taking a class where the instructor called out that everybody in society has ADHD.
And there I am, it's a mindfulness class, right? And there I am, my brain has now decided to go over into the corner and work on this issue, which is my instructor needs help with this. But the truth is, you also need some form of relationship and some space for that conversation, right? To not just scold people, but to be able to actually educate and explore and bring people along. And I think that one's hard. Even though there's so much out there now, that part's hard in the day-to-day too.
Hard dirt.
Dave, we don't hear you.
Erica Alshuler (45:59.018)
Oh Dave, yeah, there you are.
Dave Axelgard (46:00.241)
I keep muting myself because my kombucha is making me burp.
sherri cannon (46:05.427)
Please don't edit that out.
Erica Alshuler (46:07.05)
bite. Got it. Doctor, doctor, whatever. I already forgot the name. Dr. Bootsch.
Dave Axelgard (46:10.136)
Sorry.
sherri cannon (46:14.821)
That, that beautiful, Dr. Boots really.
Dave Axelgard (46:17.272)
Dr. Bootsch, that is actually, that is a fantastic name. I would totally buy Dr. Bootsch.
sherri cannon (46:22.03)
Hehehehe
Erica Alshuler (46:24.43)
Right? Okay, good. We'll start our own. Please proceed, Dave.
sherri cannon (46:27.737)
Mm.
Dave Axelgard (46:27.773)
Uh, that's going to be my new, that's going to be my new nickname for Sherri, Dr. Booch. Um, also Cherry Bomb and Dr. Booch. Excellent band name. Totally call it. Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (46:32.014)
Cherry Bomb and Dr. Bootsch.
sherri cannon (46:32.278)
All right. I love it.
Erica Alshuler (46:38.914)
Seriously, but now I'm cutting out guys you have the rest of this podcast to think about a great nickname for me. Okay, come on
sherri cannon (46:44.818)
Yeah. Okay, working.
Dave Axelgard (46:45.126)
You got it.
Erica Alshuler (46:47.682)
And please proceed, sir.
Dave Axelgard (46:50.756)
I have no recollection of what I was gonna say.
Erica Alshuler (46:54.587)
This is beautiful. This is beautiful. Oh, okay. Well then it's going to come to you.
sherri cannon (46:54.991)
Oh no.
Dave Axelgard (46:59.716)
This is the only audience where I feel absolutely no embarrassment about having completely lost my train of thought because I was burping. Oh wait, okay, I got it. I got it. Yeah, the other thing from that book that just like blew my world open, and share, I know we've talked about this a lot, but it was the study, I think it was at Stanford, the one where they were showing...
sherri cannon (47:07.134)
And I can't help you. I can't remember where we were.
Erica Alshuler (47:11.398)
Oh, okay, good.
Dave Axelgard (47:27.176)
neurodivergent, neurotypical people playing cards. And every time they wired up all their brains and the compensation for the study was an Amazon gift card, right? That had like 20 bucks on it or something. And every time they were shown, so they'd shown one card at a time, and every time, and I'm paraphrasing this like crazy, so I'm probably gonna screw it up, but this is how it landed with me.
They would show the participants a playing card, one at a time. And every time they showed them a diamond, then they would show them a picture of their Amazon gift card with five extra dollars being added to it. And when that five bucks got added, all of the dopamine fired, everybody got really, really excited. And then they would keep going. And without too much, or very quickly,
Erica Alshuler (48:09.966)
Hmm
sherri cannon (48:14.911)
Uh huh.
Dave Axelgard (48:24.184)
the neurotypical people, every time they saw a diamond, the dopamine would fire. They didn't have to, you know, they knew what was coming, right? Their brain had picked up on that pattern. For the neurodivergent people, for the people with ADHD specifically, no matter how many times they showed them that a diamond meant money on your card, the dopamine didn't fire until they saw the number go up on the card, like on the gift card, so that their brains just did not.
sherri cannon (48:51.182)
That's beautiful.
Erica Alshuler (48:51.296)
Wow.
Dave Axelgard (48:53.608)
their brain might've identified the pattern, but the chemicals didn't respond to the pattern. The chemicals responded only to the moment. And so I had always, the thing that always pissed me off the most or that frustrates me the most about my ADHD was the executive function. It's like getting the thing started, right? And that study and sort of translating it to real life where I know I have how many 25 years of work experience.
sherri cannon (48:56.354)
Ahem.
Dave Axelgard (49:21.088)
that tells me that if I start a project and I do a good job, I'm gonna get praised, I'm gonna feel great about it, I'm gonna get more money, I'm gonna get bonuses, blah, promotions, and all that's gonna feel super duper good. I know that pattern cognitively, but the chemicals in my brain don't respond to that pattern. And I don't get that little hit of dopamine to start the project that neurotypical people get. And again, like something about that science.
Erica Alshuler (49:36.27)
Hehehehe
sherri cannon (49:42.306)
Yeah.
Dave Axelgard (49:50.112)
and actually seeing like the scans of the brains, the kids' brains was just game changing for me. It created so, it was able to, we talked about the positive intelligence thing, it was able to take that voice, that anxiety driving voice that had been sitting shotgun for so long and just kind of ask him kindly to get in the back seat and turn the volume down a little bit, right? Which in my mind is the best I can hope for.
Erica Alshuler (50:15.886)
Absolutely.
Erica Alshuler (50:20.574)
Well, and it's so fascinating. I had not heard that study and now that's gonna be the thing I talk about all the time, but it works in my brain immediately goes to it's failure to stop me from doing bad behaviors by connecting to the good feeling. So like addictive tendencies to, you know, be it any form of substance that I've ever partaken in my life, I can, you know, know that feeling
the choice to not do that of like, God, remember how good that feels in the morning and how great you feel and how much more you got done and you're kinder and a more patient parent and all these things that you love and are so important to you. And you know logically is supposed to connect and just doesn't and have, and then the shame spiral continues because now you have no willpower and then you've made the bad decisions and all the things. So it's both to get started and to get and to stop.
So we're getting it from both sides. That is powerful. Sherri, were you going to say something else before I?
sherri cannon (51:19.95)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah. Man.
sherri cannon (51:28.338)
Oh, it just, it didn't know maybe it just struck me that. Let's see. It strikes me just like listening to Dave's talk about that this time that the more times that happens, right? The more times that we, and to Erica, to your point too, the more times in our brain we intellectually know that part, like we get that, like that's true, that's true, but it still remains so theoretical.
Erica Alshuler (51:31.691)
Yeah
sherri cannon (51:55.178)
And it really is that you've been saying it, Dave, it's that it is that space between what's important, what's truly important, quadrant two, right? Important, but not urgent, but it's important. And ADHD is the land of, but when it gets to urgent and important, I will be there because that's what my brain is wired for. And then you see all of the challenge that can come from that, so yeah.
Erica Alshuler (52:18.542)
Well, that urgent and important reminds me of, I'm not gonna be able to recall where it's from and I probably will mess it up, but somewhere in the amazing things that you've sent my way, I read that, or you told me that where our brain fails, it makes up for by attaching emotions to things. And so in order to make something feel urgent and important that isn't otherwise getting flagged that way, or we attach a bunch of emotion to it and now we can more easily recall that.
sherri cannon (52:25.218)
Coming.
Erica Alshuler (52:47.67)
thing that we might have forgotten. And that for me was the biggest kind of aha looking back pattern moment of I am generally very able to articulate myself well and I had never quite been able to put my finger on what I called emotionally exhausted. I was like, I am not physically exhausted, but I am always emotionally exhausted. I'm a happy person. Why am I so emotionally exhausted? I have no idea why, but I've been using emotion
Dave Axelgard (53:08.106)
Mm.
sherri cannon (53:11.266)
Right.
Erica Alshuler (53:16.546)
to make things important and therefore exhausting myself just to get through my day-to-day life. And that was such a powerful realization for me. And I will track down where I read that and how it works, but that for me was the same as that aha moment for you, Dave, of, oh my gosh, this is what's happening to me. And now if I can use different tools and tricks like that I've worked with Sherri on.
Dave Axelgard (53:35.117)
Hmm.
Erica Alshuler (53:43.91)
maybe I can find some other way to positively associate things in my brain that don't require so much emotional energy all the time.
Dave Axelgard (53:50.893)
All right.
sherri cannon (53:53.532)
Yeah. Erica, it sounds though like, is this true? That, I mean, we do all three no. And so do all the people who are listening, that when an event happens that is loaded with a lot of emotion, right? That's the stuff that will Velcro to us. So we know that. But I also heard you saying, have you been able to actually, have you found yourself being able to more direct that?
Erica Alshuler (54:11.428)
Mm-hmm.
sherri cannon (54:20.718)
pull in some emotion and kind of load something that you want to do more of or to do less. Have you found a way to connect it up?
Erica Alshuler (54:31.57)
I have not successfully yet. Now, I have dabbled in somatic experiencing, specifically brain spotting, which does that, where you open up and listen to the feelings that are otherwise trapped or living in your unconscious. And you find a way to connect with your body and feel things that you're hiding. And once those emotions come out and are associated with the thing that you're focused on in this experience,
sherri cannon (54:40.222)
Mm-hmm. Right.
sherri cannon (54:53.43)
Yeah.
sherri cannon (55:00.076)
Mm-hmm.
Erica Alshuler (55:01.106)
was drinking or, you know, again, I'm always coming back to that. I don't mean to make myself sound like I have a huge problem, but obviously I care about it. And so now I'm trying to associate those feelings that I keep suppressed. I'm trying to make that connection subconsciously so that the minute I think about one, there's no delay. They're connected in my brain. They have merged as those negative feelings and the positive of making other choices.
sherri cannon (55:08.53)
Yeah, I liked it a lot too.
sherri cannon (55:24.566)
There you go.
Dave Axelgard (55:25.488)
See you.
Erica Alshuler (55:29.898)
I'm experimenting with that. I think there's been some positive impact. I will talk in depth about that on another podcast, but no, to answer your question, I haven't like found a good hack for that yet. I tend to associate, yeah, that's true. I tend to associate the emotions with the bad ones, the shame, the, you know, those are the things that I cling to that one encounter where I said something I thought was embarrassing to someone while I was in a shower. And I have thought about that.
sherri cannon (55:39.722)
Yeah, but I didn't ask if there was a hack.
sherri cannon (55:47.831)
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (55:57.846)
three out of four times I've showered since it happened to me in 2004. Like the fact that I can't turn that off because it had that emotional connection to me of like, Oh, I felt embarrassed. That's not what I meant to say. And I didn't express myself effectively. So it's strong.
Dave Axelgard (56:04.365)
Mm.
sherri cannon (56:04.566)
Right.
Dave Axelgard (56:09.666)
Hmm.
sherri cannon (56:12.206)
It's, I don't even know if it is hackable as much as that just putting those concepts together and beginning to think that way might be part of what can help us start to go, what is the smallest, smallest action, right? What is the micro thing toward this that I can stand on the other side of pretty quickly and say, there, that, I just did that instead of, you know, yeah, hard.
Dave Axelgard (56:35.416)
Well, in putting words to it, right? It's like that for me that is like half the battle, right? Being able to sit here on a podcast with you two and just say these things, right? Say them out loud. The more, and that's actually been, I think one of the primary things that I have gleaned from my work with Sherri is the ease with which I can talk to people about it.
sherri cannon (56:45.808)
Glorious.
sherri cannon (57:03.788)
Hmm.
Dave Axelgard (57:04.384)
And it hasn't been without challenge. At one point when I sort of revealed to a boss that I had ADHD and explained to him how it was manifesting itself, and he acted very, very sort of, like he was listening and what can I do and blah, blah. And then very shortly thereafter, I think it was about two weeks later, I was essentially demoted.
And so it can be very, very difficult to talk about. And I've spent a lot of time with Sherri and my therapist, obviously, working through that. But for me, like the more I talk about it and the more open I am about it, the more I share the stuff that I'm learning with Sherri, the stuff that I'm learning in my own research, the more those connections get made. And the truth of the matter is, is like,
If I had to pin, if I had to say sort of one very specific thing that has driven the paradigm shift in my own brain about whether or not ADHD is a blessing or a curse. Um, it comes down to this, literally what's happening like right now. The, cause for me as an extrovert and everything else that is my personality, my people are my people.
And the people who know me know that I will bend over backwards for my people. I don't like everybody, but if you're my person, if you're one of my people, you know that, that I, I will be there for you and that you are the most important thing in my life and the number of people that, that are my people, um, who, with whom my relationship with them has deepened and become more meaningful and more vulnerable and all of those things.
as I have been able to be more open. I mean, Erica, perfect example, like we work together forever and are incredibly close and know each other extremely well. But like the kind of discussions that we've been able to have, while objectively fewer than we did when I was in LA and when we were working together every day, have reached a depth that is super meaningful to me. And so now more and more and more, the more and more of those that I have, like
Dave Axelgard (59:26.156)
the more I associate something deep and personal and meaningful and emotional with this thing. And that's been a major part of my shift.
Erica Alshuler (59:34.57)
Aww.
So you're slowly reframing it in your head, both intentionally and unintentionally by associating all these warm, wonderful feelings with the idea of ADHD. I love that.
Dave Axelgard (59:51.084)
Yeah. Cause some of the, my favorite people in the entire world have ADHD. My son, my son included. Right. So yeah.
sherri cannon (59:56.535)
Yeah.
Yeah. And, you know, and listening to you talk about that, Dave, and I'm thinking about, you know, as folks listen to this, but may not have, they may not be out, they may not be sure, they may not have conversations about it, right? But, you know, back when I was doing ADHD coach training, the thing we talked about often was that, you know, having ADHD as an adult,
Erica Alshuler (01:00:12.942)
Hehehe, mhm.
sherri cannon (01:00:27.214)
is like just trying to live according to the wrong owner's manual for your brain. It's like you got here along with everybody else and you see that in our case, like 90 to 92% of the rest of the world certainly looks like they have this together, and we don't. But what I hear Dave doing too, and Erica, I know you do it, it's that ability to start finding where is what is so unique to your brain and so rewarding? And what is so much true about who you are?
Because it is the beginning, I think, of rewriting the owner's manual and saying, that's really nice, you know, that much of the population has something. And I think that's an overstatement, too. I mean, everybody's got stuff that they wish they didn't have to live according to. This when you're neurodiverse, you need to be rewriting the that owner's manual for your brain. And it's slow. It's kind of slow, but it's also kind of fascinating and can be really cool and fun and funny when you start finding out, you're like, you should go to the market.
Dave Axelgard (01:01:21.924)
Well, and.
sherri cannon (01:01:24.726)
and run around in the store a while and just say hi to everybody and you'll be good. You know, stuff like that.
Dave Axelgard (01:01:26.848)
Yep. And in my, in my experience, that rewriting makes a great group project.
sherri cannon (01:01:34.615)
Yeah, right?
Dave Axelgard (01:01:34.756)
Like you guys are the people that I am rewriting with in my own mind, right? And that's, absolutely. That too, that too. Very, very early teaser. That's right, that's right.
sherri cannon (01:01:40.382)
Yeah, it's freeing, it's liberating, isn't it?
Erica Alshuler (01:01:45.214)
and writing an actual book together, you two, but side note. Yeah. Teaser, but yes.
sherri cannon (01:01:48.598)
That too.
sherri cannon (01:01:55.906)
Yeah, very early T-Zero. Ebola, a date has been put to it. That should hurry us up. Our brains like urgency. We all just gagged. Goals? What?
Erica Alshuler (01:01:56.438)
Coming to you in 2027.
Dave Axelgard (01:02:04.208)
Oh, dang. Yeah, we love a good goal. The second you said it, Erica, like, look, my face got flushed. I was like, Oh, gosh, no, we can't 2027.
Erica Alshuler (01:02:06.294)
man.
Erica Alshuler (01:02:15.3)
Oh.
sherri cannon (01:02:19.305)
I'm gonna flush too.
Dave Axelgard (01:02:24.112)
If you're still here, I'm gonna go ahead and subscribe.
Erica Alshuler (01:02:24.198)
Oh, man. Well, we'll see. I actually, for the first time, I think we've took goals are blah, we all just visually and audibly queued that in. But that's because they're usually irrational and meant to like self-regulate someone who can do that to themselves. And but when they are rational and they are guidelines, I can value them. Like I have said,
sherri cannon (01:02:25.832)
Oh.
sherri cannon (01:02:33.08)
now.
sherri cannon (01:02:42.338)
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (01:02:50.91)
Okay, I know this one thing that has a proper timeline and I know how far I am. I think by my birthday, because it was a random time, May 3rd, I could have a podcast live. So now I do like kind of working towards that to give myself some deadline because there's benefit. We hit goals, yet deadlines rock because then we have to force ourselves. And then once I go live, I'm kind of anxious for the time when I'll have a podcast posted and I don't have something for the next week.
And yeah, it's me and my podcast and who cares? I could be like, no, nothing this week, who cares? But I also would love to be like, what can I scramble together and who can I get on the phone and make something fun happen? So there's this, that is such a great example of us recognizing the patterns from our lives previously when we were assigned irrational, seemingly pointless and arbitrary goals, aka like sales goals or whatever we want to call it Dave, that we were handed down.
sherri cannon (01:03:28.842)
Right? Yeah.
sherri cannon (01:03:45.346)
Me too.
Erica Alshuler (01:03:46.07)
That made zero sense. So yes, all of us. But then seeing where those drivers and those motivators do come from, and that can come from immense pressure. And I've written my best papers, and we've all had this conversation. So yeah, group project about putting our, it's back to your group project idea about, Dave, like having some people maybe set some boundaries for you so that you get some help. Go ahead, Sherri.
sherri cannon (01:03:59.266)
Ooh, ooh, I might hand up, okay.
sherri cannon (01:04:08.302)
Can, thanks. I just want to say what I just heard too, is that you asked me what do people say when they show up and they're interested in talking about ADHD coaching. But one of the things that always shows up is I learned a long time ago that when people, that when I, long before I was diagnosed, there'd be a certain, there's certain people that I would meet who would say to me, oh, you're very, you're very mean to yourself. You need to be nicer to yourself. And I can remember knowing in my heart, I know you are so right.
I'm so pissed off that that's what you just said to me because I had no access to that. I didn't have any. And I was just listening to you, Erica and I was thinking, you know, I've learned not to say to people, let's see how we can be a little kinder here. I mean, I try to find a way in, but I think that's a piece of this because what you're describing, Erica, is a form of kind of taking a breath and kind of really looking, not with that caustic.
punitive self, right? But with the other part, like, well, who says the rules have to be that I do it that way? I mean, like, you know, you used your birthday. Beautiful, right? Like you use something that had some value to you. That's a form of self-kindness because we're beginning to hear ourselves, you know, we're paying attention to it. But otherwise most of us don't also don't want to be told to be nicer to ourselves because, you know.
Dave Axelgard (01:05:21.337)
Yeah.
Dave Axelgard (01:05:32.396)
Well, it's funny, like I know, Sherri, you and I have talked to the goal thing quite a bit and this is kind of a weird thing too, but a lot of this for me also just kind of comes down to syntax, right? There's something about the word goal that just rubs me the wrong way, right? Same way that like being kind to yourself and self care also rubbed me the wrong way. And I just don't, I don't like them. If I like, I theoretically like the principle, like where I think people are probably coming from when they say it.
sherri cannon (01:05:51.808)
I know.
sherri cannon (01:05:56.247)
Yeah.
Dave Axelgard (01:06:02.104)
But like when you said, sure, you're like, you try and help people sort of find a way into that works. Our very first session, our very first meeting, the way that you tried to squeeze in there was you said, you know exactly what I'm gonna say. We talked about like a week ago, cause I did it to Orion also last week, Orion's my son.
sherri cannon (01:06:19.831)
I can't wait.
Dave Axelgard (01:06:30.168)
which was what can you do today to set tomorrow Dave up for success, right? And that made sense. That made sense to me. And same thing that my son, you know, like a couple of nights ago, he, it was like six o'clock, it was almost dinner time, he was downstairs playing. And I was like, you know, buddy, I need you to come up and clean up your backpack. Like the trail, you know, from the back door into the kitchen was there. And I said, buddy, come get your stuff.
sherri cannon (01:06:35.286)
Oh yeah, yeah. Future Dave, future. Future self.
Erica Alshuler (01:06:36.694)
Being kind to your future self is so huge.
sherri cannon (01:06:56.101)
This is so good.
Dave Axelgard (01:06:58.828)
And it's, you know, the millionth time I'd said it, probably not, probably the 500th. And, but, but one of, well, honestly, like quick tangent, one of like the parenting things that has been the most valuable for me was somewhat, is some book, I can't remember who read it, but it was a doctor, it was a real person, wasn't like just, you know, my sister or something. But they said, go into every like teaching moment with your kids, assuming that you're gonna have to tell them a thousand times before they get it. And.
Erica Alshuler (01:07:05.326)
Let's talk in real numbers here.
sherri cannon (01:07:07.693)
Yeah.
Dave Axelgard (01:07:29.436)
If you go into it with that assumption, the second time you have to tell them when you're super frustrated they didn't learn the first time becomes, for me became so much less frustrating because it's only the second time of a thousand and the third time. And it gets still as frustrating, but it gives a different way to frame it. Back, back, back. So, oh, Ryan, come upstairs. It's, you know, come get your stuff. Shook him out of whatever he was hyper-focused on. Had no interest in doing it. It was...
Erica Alshuler (01:07:39.818)
way less triggering.
Dave Axelgard (01:07:57.176)
winding and dragging his feet and angry. And I was like, hey buddy, if you want to know something like tomorrow, that tomorrow Orion can do to make later Orion happy so that he doesn't have to feel these feelings, when you come in the door, if you put your stuff away, think of it as doing something nice for later Orion so that tomorrow, 6 p.m. Orion gets to keep playing and doesn't have to come upstairs and clean up after himself. So yeah, I was just gonna validate you Sherri that you do a great job of helping us sort of
sherri cannon (01:08:22.468)
Yeah. And Dave, you're
Dave Axelgard (01:08:26.276)
find our way past the annoying syntax into something that's actually functional.
sherri cannon (01:08:30.134)
Well, thank you. I want to say that one reason that I delay painfully on all things creative or putting myself out there is that I just don't know any of this about myself until someone tells me, right? And so what I just got, and I'm trying to write it here really big so that I don't forget it is that one of the really more effective ways in for adults with ADHD to the idea of
Dave Axelgard (01:08:43.492)
I'm gonna go.
sherri cannon (01:08:58.67)
Here's me right now, here's current me, but there's a future me. There is a future me and I know the pain that future me can feel. I also have had these fleeting moments of knowing the pride, you know, or the relief that it can feel. And Dave, you told me too, that you had said to Orion, you're not doing anything really when you come in the door, right? Like you're really not doing anything. Like that's kind of available time. What if you actually just.
put things away. And what was the face that you said you watched or you watched him think it through?
Dave Axelgard (01:09:31.761)
Oh, it was this, it was...
Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (01:09:36.877)
Dave's making a realization face, a child realization face.
sherri cannon (01:09:42.272)
Yeah, he looks younger as he does it, doesn't he? Yeah.
Dave Axelgard (01:09:44.184)
That's right.
Erica Alshuler (01:09:44.598)
Yeah, looking up to the sky and in discovery and disbelief of, oh yeah.
sherri cannon (01:09:50.027)
Yeah, and
Dave Axelgard (01:09:50.308)
Yeah, and he got it. It was, you know. Now, that will probably mean that he will clean up after himself twice every two weeks, rather than once every two weeks. I'll take it. That's right. But it also.
Erica Alshuler (01:10:00.435)
Uh huh.
sherri cannon (01:10:03.315)
Mm-hmm.
Erica Alshuler (01:10:05.454)
Progress, not perfection.
sherri cannon (01:10:07.451)
He will become more, yeah, it will become something more in his wheelhouse to do just a little bit more.
Dave Axelgard (01:10:12.536)
But also I think even more importantly for me anyway, it gives me a productive framework to use every time I ask him about it. It's not you're doing me a favor, come do something that's like according to my rules, but it's actually like doing a favor for future Orion.
sherri cannon (01:10:25.329)
Thank you.
Erica Alshuler (01:10:28.874)
or worse yet a shaming version of like, well, why haven't you done this yet? What are you thinking? And that's like the great polar opposite. So I'm looking at time, not because I ever wanna end anything with you guys, but I know I wanna respect your time. And I just think this has come to such a beautiful place. It's followed the arc of your diagnoses and then how you've learned your brain and how we've all recognized patterns and...
sherri cannon (01:10:32.572)
Oh.
Dave Axelgard (01:10:34.029)
Right.
sherri cannon (01:10:36.191)
Yeah, yeah.
sherri cannon (01:10:49.886)
Well, that's brilliant.
Erica Alshuler (01:10:57.766)
made sense of this in our lives for better, for worse in the sense that we see patterns that cause guilt and shame and make us cringe, but also that we've been able to articulate, talk about, and create strategies around making them better. Now, this is an ongoing battle with self, not battle, an ongoing improvement journey that we're all on, that everyone's on. Yeah.
Dave Axelgard (01:11:23.128)
Yeah, ongoing process of discovery.
sherri cannon (01:11:26.69)
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (01:11:26.854)
And so I was going to ask you Sherri of, you know, what, and both of you, but what do we tell someone who's out there thinking about, I think you guys beautifully got there on your own of, of what, who's someone who's listening to this, wondering what they do with their feelings or their aha moment or what, you know, book they need to read or friend that needs to find them. Or maybe it's this podcast, if they're actually hearing it. And maybe they send it to a friend or they reach out to someone who, and get a referral to.
either get a diagnosis, talk to Sherri, or someone like Sherri, because she doesn't have endless time, but, and we're not leaving our running time soon. Groups are coming. Yes.
sherri cannon (01:12:03.566)
going to be doing groups are coming groups are coming so do you reach out yeah I think we need community and a lot of folks need a way to be in it that doesn't cost what coaching costs you know we just we need ways we need ways to help more of the adults that are out there and I'm and I'm just gonna say that well we thanks Dave
Erica Alshuler (01:12:14.891)
Absolutely.
Dave Axelgard (01:12:20.452)
Ah, Sherri, you're just the best. Uh, uh, you're just the best. That is-
Erica Alshuler (01:12:28.145)
I disagree. She's okay. Just kidding.
Dave Axelgard (01:12:29.168)
Uh, no, it's just, it's, it's just, there's, yeah. I, I wish that I was, I wish that even when I was at Zephyr, like I really loved what I was doing, but I dream someday of being able to do something that's so very clearly intersects like interest and importance, the way that the work you do clearly does for you. Like it is, it is obvious in
sherri cannon (01:12:29.868)
I'm not the best. Yeah.
Dave Axelgard (01:12:58.632)
everything you say and it is admirable and deeply enviable. Sorry, continue. I didn't mean to interrupt you, but just that moment struck me. It's like, yeah, sure, I could make more money, but it's never what it's really been about for you. It's about how many people can you help?
sherri cannon (01:13:06.022)
I am so touched by that. Wait.
Erica Alshuler (01:13:06.41)
Agreed.
sherri cannon (01:13:13.486)
Wow. I'm so struck by that. Listen, you guys know, I don't know that you know, well, I think you know, I think you both know, that it was only shut down that took away the way that I was bringing in revenue, which pretty much meant that I was out there for a week and then I would come home and lay kind of flat and coach a couple of people maybe, but I'd be back out there. So,
It is as surprising and delightful and mind blowing to me that it was COVID and shut down that put me in a new, I had just moved here to where I am now in Ventura County in California. I had finished my training. I was doing some faculty stuff for my ADHD Academy, but in all ways, I had been terrified of coaching ADHD adults. I really felt.
that I could do harm, that I could let very vulnerable people who needed, like somebody that really needed somebody real and qualified. I have a real thing about that, like just that everybody else knows more. But what, oh yeah, it's just massive. Let's do an episode on that.
Erica Alshuler (01:14:29.294)
Oh, imposter syndrome, we could talk about that. Flag it, future episode. Let's do it, it's booked.
Dave Axelgard (01:14:32.452)
Honestly, you could, gonna be an entire episode on imposter syndrome. But you can find way better guests than me for that.
sherri cannon (01:14:36.45)
Oh, I would love that. So that's.
sherri cannon (01:14:42.826)
Dave does not want to be on the imposter.
Erica Alshuler (01:14:43.758)
Okay, I'll work on that.
Dave Axelgard (01:14:45.368)
I mean, people who are way more qualified than me. Yeah, so find somebody else. There it is.
Erica Alshuler (01:14:49.038)
That was a joke. I got it. Got it. Wow, it was a really good one too, Dave. I'm sorry.
sherri cannon (01:14:51.082)
What, way better imposters? Yeah, okay.
Dave Axelgard (01:14:54.876)
It's okay. You can cut down the gap in the middle. You can edit it out.
sherri cannon (01:14:56.332)
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (01:14:58.834)
No, authenticity, man.
sherri cannon (01:15:03.158)
Right? So anyway, I think my point there is just that it feels, I don't wanna downgrade it too much, but I do wanna say I get to be one of those people that got really got a gift coming out of Shutdown, which was all the walls came in on me. Well, they came in on all of us, but for me, they pretty much stripped away what was very, it was very satisfying, right? But now, was it work like this?
No, no, it wasn't. This feels like, wow, hmm, I would not wish another pandemic, you know, to have us all get it, but I've gotten to grow through all of that pretty much with you guys, right?
Dave Axelgard (01:15:46.608)
But isn't that, isn't that always the case? Like, I...
Dave Axelgard (01:15:55.092)
If I had to, like, if I had to identify the straw that broke the camel's back or the thing that tipped the scales from like ADHD as liability or superpower, honestly, it would be really exactly what you described using, I would be using the pandemic as a metaphor, which is.
Yes, it sucks. Yes, it made life infinitely harder, but how much did it open up for you? How many opportunities, how many incredible things were you able to find and accomplish and do because of it, because of that thing that was really, really hard? And we were, you know, I've said this before and I will say it again, like the...
If my son had been born with ADHD and I didn't have it, I would be so sad. I would be, I am so, if for no other reason, and anything else, if I had to, if I got no other value out of having ADHD, then being able to
be an truly empathetic parent to my kid that has it, that would be enough. That would be enough. And that's not meant to make me sound magnanimous or altruistic or anything like that, but that is, in my brain, that is an absolute fact. Like the fact that I get to like see the world and see the frustration in my kid's eyes through the lens that he sees, through which he sees it, that is infinitely valuable for me. And
can be applied to any kind of community really. Like once you start finding people who see the world similarly and whose brains function similarly, the value that your struggles and your unique difficulty and your unique path can bring to help those people find their own way out of whatever chasm between interest and importance that they find themselves in is just honestly such a gift.
Erica Alshuler (01:18:16.69)
Well, and that's where I think the we're back to why, why we're here. What we're doing on this very podcast is we've seen each of us in our own ways. The value of talking about this. A lot of the world has shares it through humor, education, whatever it is as short as Tik TOKs to, you know, beautiful novels at, but, uh, there's no shame and.
sherri cannon (01:18:39.809)
Mm-hmm.
Erica Alshuler (01:18:45.998)
ego to get over in my particular case to just want to talk about it because I've gotten past that because every single time it comes up, I have another list of three or four people who want to grab coffee and talk about it and who want to relate about it. And who's the first person I called Dave when I got my diagnosis because I knew you had it. And it's just, it is a beautiful thing. And I thank you guys both so much for being here to talk about your experiences and share
sherri cannon (01:18:51.256)
Right.
sherri cannon (01:18:59.256)
There you go.
That's right.
Erica Alshuler (01:19:16.138)
with me as we often do, but with all these other people, all two listeners that might hear this someday. So I just thank you so much for your time. And I hope people enjoyed this because we are definitely gonna hear your voices more often. And I just hope you have a wonderful day. I heard your office buzzer go off, Dave, for your next meeting. I forget those days. Whew. Yeah. Nope.
sherri cannon (01:19:25.043)
bigger than that.
Dave Axelgard (01:19:39.86)
It did indeed. It did indeed. Sorry. I have two computers right now and I muted this one and forgot to mute that one.
sherri cannon (01:19:42.442)
or he's cooking, or he's cooking. We don't know which. Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (01:19:45.706)
Niskar!
Erica Alshuler (01:19:50.142)
Yeah, we will let you go to your next Zoom. I love you both dearly. Thank you so much for your time.
Dave Axelgard (01:19:56.452)
Thanks for having us.
sherri cannon (01:19:56.454)
I love you both dearly too. I want to tell you that Greta Gerwig has ADHD and she and her partner wrote during COVID. And I just heard her describe that process and how happy are you that Greta is out there with ADHD? Yes. Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (01:20:07.102)
I love that. And Noah, yes. Oh, everything about that. Oh my gosh, I want a Barbie part two and I want it to go way deeper. I want it to be about ADHD. There we go, let's do it.
sherri cannon (01:20:16.15)
Me too. Me too, me too.
Dave Axelgard (01:20:18.36)
Just make it like I want Barbie to and I want it to be weird Barbie. I want weird Barbie to be the center of it. Also, I have I have a deeply. Yeah, I have a deeply unplatonic crush on Kate McKinnon. I will watch.
sherri cannon (01:20:24.174)
Oh, I want weird Barbie too. This is yoga Barbie, but my friend just is getting.
Erica Alshuler (01:20:24.284)
Yes. Mm hmm.
sherri cannon (01:20:34.35)
She's the best.
Erica Alshuler (01:20:34.654)
She and Greta Gerwig were roommates. That's how I can't, cool people that we want to be friends with. Okay, maybe they'll hear this.
Dave Axelgard (01:20:36.628)
I know. That's how you know it works. That's how, yeah. I feel like they also live downstairs from Tina Fey. Like in my mind, that also has to be the case. So, yeah. Ha ha ha.
sherri cannon (01:20:41.877)
And they all just brought in their...
sherri cannon (01:20:47.114)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's awesome. Okay, thanks. I got to tell you the Grotty Grr wig. I haven't, I said it to my husband. I said to my husband, he was like, so I, you know, that doesn't, that doesn't get any traction.
Erica Alshuler (01:20:47.858)
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (01:20:52.782)
Okay, yeah.
Erica Alshuler (01:20:58.318)
But somehow she started writing and maybe it's because her partner, they created accountability, whatever that is, let's diagnose that all. But she did it and she produces the most incredible work. And so that's us. That's our superpowers coming out.
sherri cannon (01:21:05.492)
It's...
sherri cannon (01:21:09.482)
Yes, and they used COVID for it. And she was talking about being outside on the balcony and all shut down and they're making up this world. And when you're thinking about ADHD, yeah, yeah. And it was Margot Robbie who had gotten the rights, right? And then came to Greta Gerwig and pretty much said, are you interested? Yeah, so there we go. This was a blast.
Dave Axelgard (01:21:18.18)
Oh yeah, they were in Manhattan probably too. That was probably a nightmare. Woof.
Erica Alshuler (01:21:23.232)
Ugh.
Dave Axelgard (01:21:32.652)
If we're, can I ask one question? I wanna know what the distractions were that you skipped, that you wanted that if we weren't recording a podcast, you would have interjected into the conversation, but you skipped because we were being recorded. I'll tell you mine, is this not the cutest, tiniest chapstick in the entire world? Isn't that adorable? I had some dental work done.
Erica Alshuler (01:21:32.706)
Well, well, well. I can stop it. Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (01:21:51.828)
Yeah.
Erica Alshuler (01:22:00.438)
It's adorable. Yes, it's like a sample.
Dave Axelgard (01:22:02.252)
and I have small, I have a small mouth. And so anytime they hold my mouth, I do have a, I don't, I can't, I have a small jaw, small mouth, like I can't open my mouth, right? And so they stick that thing in there and I get dry, I get chapped. And so now they just give me one of these when they apply it on a minute and they let me walk out with it. Isn't that the cutest fricking thing in the world? Yeah, it's not wasteful, it's tiny.
sherri cannon (01:22:05.462)
Dave has a small mouth. Were you aware? Yeah. He does. No.
Erica Alshuler (01:22:13.468)
Oh yeah, so dry.
sherri cannon (01:22:20.859)
That's from the dentist?
Erica Alshuler (01:22:20.898)
That is so cute. That makes me think of the most adorable thing I didn't know existed are teeny tiny Tic Tac boxes that by the way come in a giant Tic Tac box. So in a giant, you see it? They were like.
Dave Axelgard (01:22:33.136)
I have seen it. Our marbles for like our marble track are stored in one of those giant tic tac boxes that had tiny tic tac boxes inside of it. I love it so much. Yep.
sherri cannon (01:22:35.506)
I did not know that.
Erica Alshuler (01:22:40.182)
Oh my gosh. The most adorable things I've ever seen in my whole life. I think all my withholdings were just like me wanting to tell a story that was somewhat loosely related about myself. That's pretty typical. I didn't tell you guys, I didn't, I resisted telling you guys that I almost canceled today because I got a concussion two days ago from being wrestled by my son.
sherri cannon (01:22:46.85)
I'm not saying that.
Dave Axelgard (01:22:56.309)
No, I had like four...
Dave Axelgard (01:23:06.032)
Mm-hmm. Okay.
Erica Alshuler (01:23:06.418)
So I was like, is my brain gonna hurt today? Because yesterday it was unbearable and I had to get a CT scan, but I'm all good. And I'm fine today.
sherri cannon (01:23:12.052)
That's it?
sherri cannon (01:23:15.49)
What did you hit?
Erica Alshuler (01:23:17.394)
My son, we were playing and he landed on me and with all of his force into my temple with his knee. Uh-huh. And I didn't think anything of it until the next day. It was so unbearable and then I had some like numbness, but we're okay.
sherri cannon (01:23:20.471)
So he...
Dave Axelgard (01:23:23.312)
Mmm. Mm-hmm.
sherri cannon (01:23:23.358)
Okay, I was just curious about the impact. Yeah, yeah. Oh.
sherri cannon (01:23:32.442)
You are... Yeah. Wow, you sure saved.
Dave Axelgard (01:23:34.232)
I was gonna do a burp callback at the end. I was gonna do a burp callback. Because I think narratively something that really ties stories together is like bring it back. So I was gonna burp again and then I forgot. But I feel like that's all right. Oh, Dr. Bootsch. Dr. Bootsch. Brew Doctor. Well, if you forget, you've got a commercial for it at the beginning of the podcast.
Erica Alshuler (01:23:37.173)
Ooooo!
Erica Alshuler (01:23:41.534)
It's got tight.
Erica Alshuler (01:23:49.097)
Oh, a Butch Burp.
sherri cannon (01:23:51.574)
Butch Burp, yeah.
Erica Alshuler (01:23:52.878)
What is it actually called? Oh, Dr. Brew, now I can picture it. Brew Doctor, okay. Oh my God.
sherri cannon (01:23:55.906)
Dr. Brew, Brew Doctor. So you can have that name.
Erica Alshuler (01:24:01.874)
Yeah, exactly. I can't wait to do that.
sherri cannon (01:24:03.295)
Yeah.
Dave Axelgard (01:24:04.044)
They have one that's called Clear Mind, which is like, it's, I think it's an herbal tea, but it's mint and some other, and it is, it is real good, real, real good. Yeah, real good. That was dreamy.
sherri cannon (01:24:11.47)
Danger.
Erica Alshuler (01:24:12.514)
and you're talking my language.
sherri cannon (01:24:16.19)
I'm going to get that at Costco. Nice. This was the best, Erica. You're awesome.
Erica Alshuler (01:24:16.618)
all that.
All right. That was so fun. I love you guys. That was so fun. We could go on. But it does kind of naturally like at this timeframe, it kind of rounds it. Like you would wanna dive into some whole new thing or take a break. And so it's like lends itself to natural segments. So this is part one.
Dave Axelgard (01:24:23.994)
Um...
sherri cannon (01:24:36.47)
Yeah.
Dave Axelgard (01:24:39.068)
I was trying to in my mind the whole time, because this is how my brain works. I was like, all right, how are we going to like elevate, like elevate the emotional level so that it can reach a crescendo sort of like 10 minutes before we need to stop so that we can have the day new, like I was planning this out in my, oh gosh. Well, honestly, I don't think that's any issue. That's like screenwriter. That's like, like.
sherri cannon (01:24:53.85)
Wow. I'd love that you think of that.
sherri cannon (01:24:59.818)
It's your... I know. Yeah.
Dave Axelgard (01:25:03.28)
That's my training. Like I was like, how can I create the right arcs, a little peek at the right moment, and then you can have some nice emotional resolution and then we'll finish up, you know, laughy jokey, see you next time. And you did a great job, Erica. It was, I think the arc was just right.
sherri cannon (01:25:14.034)
And you did. You did, Erica. I think you are a natural. I have one.
Erica Alshuler (01:25:15.702)
Thank you. I think you guys did a great job.
I mean...
Dave Axelgard (01:25:21.997)
I definitely didn't almost get choked up though. I definitely, that definitely didn't almost happen. A little bit I did.
Erica Alshuler (01:25:27.502)
personal.
sherri cannon (01:25:27.518)
I have one request. Can this whole recording, can we have the whole thing? Okay, there's all. That's great. Thanks.
Erica Alshuler (01:25:32.81)
Yeah, I can give you the raw.
I can give you raw.
Dave Axelgard (01:25:38.136)
I love that you're recording a podcast and taking notes constantly. Sherri is just, I'm so very envious.
Erica Alshuler (01:25:42.43)
Yes, I know. I love it.
sherri cannon (01:25:43.922)
I can't not, because I can only think with a pen in my hand is the thing.
Erica Alshuler (01:25:47.19)
I need to get the notebook because I'm trying to note up here, which my computer's up here. It's not good. I need to get a notebook. That's note number two from this podcast.
Dave Axelgard (01:25:53.747)
Oh.
sherri cannon (01:25:58.621)
There you go. Yeah, yeah.
Dave Axelgard (01:25:59.524)
What kind of camera are you using, Erica?
Erica Alshuler (01:26:01.994)
I'm just using my Mac book. Yeah, are you? Really, promotion purposes and like snippets, but yeah, I mean, if there's a desire, you know, if people are just like, you have a face for YouTube, Erica, do it.
Dave Axelgard (01:26:03.66)
Oh, okay. Are you going to do a video portion of it at all or really just for promotion? Yeah.
Dave Axelgard (01:26:13.428)
Um, look up, I'm just saying look up Opal cameras. O P A L. Um, they are great. They're small. They have a really tiny one that I think is pretty good. I haven't used it. I have the C one, but it gave, but I have the C one with the slightly bigger one, but it gives you, it gives you some nice depth of field. Um, if you ever, if you ever want to like brand your podcast, we know what, like a logo or those types of things. You can actually.
Erica Alshuler (01:26:20.299)
Uh huh.
Erica Alshuler (01:26:26.75)
So cute. You mean the tadpole?
sherri cannon (01:26:30.766)
Did you just look it up?
Erica Alshuler (01:26:32.523)
I did.
Erica Alshuler (01:26:36.756)
oooo
Dave Axelgard (01:26:42.328)
get a logo on the screen. Like there's all sorts of fun stuff. Ooh, gotta pee. Anyway, it's a, I do.
sherri cannon (01:26:43.095)
Mm-hmm.
Erica Alshuler (01:26:44.11)
This software does that, which is great. But yes, that's also good to know. Oh, you do have to pee. I'm so excited. I might have to upgrade.
sherri cannon (01:26:49.234)
River Saddle. No, it's time to be because we're not... yeah yeah.
Dave Axelgard (01:26:54.528)
That's right, now, I didn't have to pee until the second it was done. And then it's like, oh, adrenaline drops, time to pee.
Erica Alshuler (01:26:55.03)
And now we're over it.
sherri cannon (01:27:00.93)
That's it.
Erica Alshuler (01:27:01.245)
I logged in case you guys joined early and then remembered to pee. So I took my headphones and I was like, if they come on and I'm peeing, I'm gonna be okay with it. Like, it's okay.
sherri cannon (01:27:09.75)
I didn't get to share the story about peeing in a holiday in ladies restroom while wearing my mic, but I did do that.
Erica Alshuler (01:27:15.186)
Oh, there we go. I love that.
Dave Axelgard (01:27:15.456)
Yes, yes. You need to watch the 30 Rock episode where Jack Donaghy is speaking at like a Six Sigma retreat and he forgets that he's mic'd up and he goes into the bathroom and does his prep. He's like, you're a tiger, you got this, go get him. Like, and they all, and it's just the best, just the best. Yeah, we've all been there.
sherri cannon (01:27:19.446)
Yeah, it was a good.
Erica Alshuler (01:27:32.151)
Oh god.
sherri cannon (01:27:32.374)
Yeah, I remember it. I remember it.
Erica Alshuler (01:27:37.514)
Or you're the murderer from the Jinx and you confess on your mic in the bathroom. Yeah. Oh God, good HBO documentary. The Jinx, okay. Then you think you never actually get satisfaction of those, you never get satisfaction. He actually confesses accidentally while being interviewed because he was so cocky, he thought he could like be interviewed, but then he's in the bathroom and he says it. Anyways, it's glorious. Okay, spoiled, but it's worth it. Love you. Bye.
Dave Axelgard (01:27:41.619)
Whatever it is. I don't know what that is.
sherri cannon (01:27:42.25)
Yeah, whatever, whatever it is, just saying. I don't either. Yeah. The jinx.
Dave Axelgard (01:27:48.621)
Okay. All right. I'm very late for my next meeting.
sherri cannon (01:27:50.583)
I will.
sherri cannon (01:28:01.95)
Oh, I'm gonna watch that. Okay, love you guys. Love you guys. Thanks Erica. Bye guys. How do we get out?
Dave Axelgard (01:28:02.254)
I love you guys. I have to go pee and I have to get to be... Bye.
Erica Alshuler (01:28:07.702)
Bye!