Breast Cancer Surgeon Reveals the Truth About Mammograms, Metabolic Health, Toxic Overload and Cancer Treatment | Dr. Jenn Simmons

https://holplus.co/appointments Are we over-treating breast cancer? Learn why metabolic dysfunction may be the real driver behind many diagnoses and how to rethink treatment.

Approximately 20 to 30 percent of screen detected breast cancer cases are treated unnecessarily. This video challenges the current standard of breast cancer treatment by focusing on the underlying metabolic health factors that often go unaddressed. If you are concerned about the current approach to screening or are looking for a more preventative perspective, this discussion provides a critical look at how we diagnose and manage the disease.

We break down the three major drivers that contribute to long-standing metabolic dysfunction. By identifying these root causes, we can move toward a more accurate breast cancer diagnosis and more effective, targeted strategies for long-term health.

Subscribe for weekly health and metabolic disease breakdowns, and comment below with your thoughts on these new findings.

If you are navigating cancer treatment or recovery, concerned about inflammation, or want personalized support for your hormones and nutrition, explore related Hol+ care options here:

Cancer Support:
https://holplus.co/services/cancer-support/

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https://holplus.co/conditions/inflammation/

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https://holplus.co/services/hormone-balancing/

0:00 Rethinking Breast Cancer Care
1:04 Meet Dr. Jen Simmons
2:59 A Family History of Cancer
6:53 When the Doctor Becomes the Patient
12:53 Why We Focus on the Wrong Thing
18:51 Navigating a Diagnosis
23:24 The Flaws in Mammographic Screening
35:17 A New Paradigm for Breast Health

*About Dr. Jenn Simmons:*
Dr. Jenn Simmons is an Integrative Oncologist, Breast Surgeon, Author, Podcast Host, and the founder of PerfeQTion Imaging. Her journey into breast cancer care began with a personal tragedy. At the age of 16, Dr. Jenn's cousin, acclaimed singer-songwriter Linda Creed, died of metastatic breast cancer just weeks after Whitney Houston's recording of her iconic song, "The Greatest Love of All," topped the charts. This loss became a defining moment, inspiring Dr. Jenn to dedicate her life to transforming how we approach breast cancer treatment and prevention.

Dr. Jenn became Philadelphia's first fellowship-trained breast surgeon and spent 17 years leading the field. However, her perspective changed significantly when she became a patient herself. Through this personal experience, Dr. Jenn saw how broken the conventional medical system can be. This led her to discover and embrace functional medicine, a revelation that sparked her journey towards a more holistic approach to breast cancer care.

Connect with Dr. Jenn Simmons:
https://www.realhealthmd.com/
https://www.instagram.com/drjennsimmons/
https://www.youtube.com/@dr.jennsimmons

About Dr. Taz:
Dr. Tasneem Bhatia (Dr. Taz) is a triple board-certified integrative medicine physician,
bestselling author, and founder of hol+ a multi-location integrative medicine practice.
Learn more: https://doctortaz.com/about

Stay Connected:
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Produced by https://ClipGrowth.com (Producer: Pat Gostek)

Creators and Guests

Host

Dr. Taz Bhatia MD

Dr. Taz Bhatia is a triple-board-certified integrative medicine physician and founder of hol+, where she brings together science, spirit and the human experience to deliver holistic, whole-person care.

Producer

Pat Gostek

Founder of ClipGrowth.com - End-to-End YouTube, Podcast & Clips Management (you just record).

What is hol+ with Dr. Taz MD | The Future of Medicine is Holistic?

hol+ with Dr. Taz MD is redefining modern medicine through a comprehensive, evidence-based holistic approach; integrating functional medicine, integrative medicine, and time-tested healing systems to treat the whole human, not just symptoms.

Hosted by Dr. Tasneem Bhatia (Dr. Taz), triple board-certified physician in integrative, functional, and holistic medicine, bestselling Penguin Random House author, and founder of hol+; a comprehensive evidence-based holistic medicine platform with clinics in Atlanta, New York City, and Los Angeles, and virtual care available nationwide.

At the heart of hol+ is a revolutionary framework: the Five Body Map- physical, mental, emotional, energetic, and social/community bodies that create whole health. This whole-human approach connects hormone imbalances, gut dysfunction, microinflammation, cortisol dysregulation, metabolic disease, autoimmune conditions, perimenopause, and stress-driven illness to the full spectrum of who we are; body, mind, and spirit.

Each episode explores Dr. Taz’s original clinical frameworks ;The Cortisol Loop, Microinflammation, and The Invisible Load alongside conversations with leading experts, celebrities, and thought leaders including Sophie Grégoire Trudeau, Katherine Schwarzenegger, Cameron Mathison, Carol Alt, Jane Seymour, Tamsen Fadal, and Kris Carr.

Topics include hormone health, gut health, GLP-1 and metabolic therapy, thyroid dysfunction, weight loss, inflammation, autoimmune disease, mental and emotional wellness, energetic health, and the future of holistic medicine.

This is the show where science and spirit converge- driving health, happiness, relationships, and family ecosystems.

Want to go deeper? Join Dr. Taz’s private community, the hol+ Circle ; medicine beyond the exam room. (holplus.co/circle)

A 2025 Webby Award honoree, recognized alongside the Mel Robbins Podcast in the 29th Annual Webby Awards, hol+ is built on the foundation of Super Woman Wellness, which surpassed 1 million downloads over 8 years.

This is medicine beyond the exam room. Welcome to hol+

[00:00:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: We are treating 20 to 30% of breast cancers, of [00:00:05] screen-detected breast cancers unnecessarily, and treatment for breast [00:00:10] cancer is not benign. I was put here to forever change how we diagnose, how we [00:00:15] treat, and how we screen for breast cancer. The way that we have been doing it, the way that [00:00:20] we have been approaching it, is wrong.
[00:00:22] Dr. Taz: There are usually three major drivers, and we need to find it [00:00:25] and nail it, and then turn this thing around.
[00:00:27] Dr. Jenn Simmons: This is not about blame or shame.
[00:00:28] Dr. Taz: No.
[00:00:29] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And no [00:00:30] one ever does anything with the intention of getting cancer. Most breast [00:00:35] cancer is a result of long-standing metabolic dysfunction. Mm. I'm changing, [00:00:40] forever changing, how we're treating breast cancer.
[00:00:43] Dr. Taz: Okay, I wanna talk to you for a [00:00:45] minute about something really important when it comes to aging: zombie cells. Yep, you heard that [00:00:50] right, zombie cells. These are the cells in your skin that stop functioning properly as we age, and [00:00:55] they accumulate over time, making your skin look older faster than it should.
[00:00:59] Dr. Taz: But here's [00:01:00] the good news: OneSkin has developed a groundbreaking way to target those very [00:01:05] cells and help your skin age more gracefully. When it comes to skincare, we've all had that moment [00:01:10] where we wonder, "Is this product really gonna work?" But with OneSkin, I don't have to wonder because the [00:01:15] science speaks for itself.
[00:01:16] Dr. Taz: At the heart of OneSkin's entire approach is their OS-01 [00:01:20] peptide. It's the first ingredient ever scientifically proven to reverse the [00:01:25] skin's biological age by addressing the cellular senescence or zombie cells. [00:01:30] By targeting these cells, OneSkin helps rejuvenate your skin from the inside out, slowing down the [00:01:35] aging process.
[00:01:35] Dr. Taz: And something I really love, OneSkin's products are backed by rigorous lab and clinical [00:01:40] studies, like the research on their OS-01 peptide, which has even been published [00:01:45] in the peer-reviewed journal NPJ Aging. I've personally seen the difference in my own routine. One [00:01:50] of my favorites is their OS-01 eye cream, which in lab studies showed [00:01:55] 130% increase in collagen production.
[00:01:57] Dr. Taz: And their SPF, it's not just any sunscreen. It [00:02:00] neutralizes free radicals four times more effectively than those so-called [00:02:05] anti-aging sunscreens. So if you're ready to try it out for yourself, you can get 15% off your [00:02:10] first order with the code DRTAZ at oneskin.co/drtaz. [00:02:15] That's oneskin.co/drtaz. Take control of your skin's health and [00:02:20] see the proof for yourself.
[00:02:23] Dr. Taz: Some of the hardest [00:02:25] moments that I've had in practice is sitting with one of my patients on their breast [00:02:30] cancer journey. And keep in mind, they could be at so many different points of this journey. A new [00:02:35] diagnosis, an old diagnosis, a family member. But it's the same [00:02:40] anguish, the same fear, the same worry that I see in their eyes and hear in their [00:02:45] voice every single time.
[00:02:47] Dr. Taz: That's why this next episode is so [00:02:50] important to me. I wanna introduce you to Dr. Jen Simmons, an integrative oncologist, [00:02:55] breast surgeon, author, podcast host, and founder of Perfect [00:03:00] QT Imaging. Her journey into breast cancer care began with her own personal tragedy. [00:03:05] At the age of 16, she lost her acclaimed singer-songwriter cousin, Linda [00:03:10] Creed, who died of metastatic breast cancer just weeks after Whitney Houston's [00:03:15] recording of Linda's song The Greatest Love of All.
[00:03:18] Dr. Taz: You guys know that one. Dr. Jen [00:03:20] became Philadelphia's first fellowship-trained breast surgeon and spent 17 [00:03:25] years leading the field. However, her perspective changed again when she became a [00:03:30] patient herself. Through this personal experience, she saw how broken the [00:03:35] conventional medical system can be. This led her to discover and embrace functional medicine, [00:03:40] a revelation that sparked her journey towards a more holistic approach to breast [00:03:45] cancer care.
[00:03:45] Dr. Taz: Please join me in welcoming Dr. Jen Simmons. [00:03:50] Okay, this is a really important topic, and you have made the trip up [00:03:55] here because I know you think this is a really important topic. I sure do. Breast health. [00:04:00] You know, we've talked a lot about breast health on the podcast in different ways. Personal stories, [00:04:05] you know, what people are experiencing, what the research and the science are saying.
[00:04:09] Dr. Taz: There's a [00:04:10] lot of confusion, I've got to say, in this space. You know, it's like every time I have somebody [00:04:15] on, I feel like I get this different perspective on breast health [00:04:20] and what it means and how we stay healthy, how we screen for it. So I really wanna [00:04:25] dive into all of this with you.
[00:04:26] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah.
[00:04:27] Dr. Taz: But before we do, I want everyone to know [00:04:30] you.
[00:04:30] Dr. Taz: So Dr. Jen is here. I love her. I have interviewed her before. [00:04:35] You're an integrative oncologist. Yes. And you're a breast surgeon.
[00:04:38] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes.
[00:04:38] Dr. Taz: But you've had your own [00:04:40] personal experience with breast cancer.
[00:04:42] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I, I have. So people- Tell [00:04:45] us a little bit about it ... uh, people ask me all the time, you know, how did I get into this breast [00:04:50] cancer space?
[00:04:51] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I want to be very clear.
[00:04:52] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:04:53] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I did not find breast cancer. [00:04:55] Breast cancer found me. It works that way, doesn't it? It
[00:04:57] Dr. Taz: always works that way.
[00:04:59] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So, [00:05:00] um, but in a very early way, in that I [00:05:05] come from a breast cancer family. Literally every woman in my family [00:05:10] gets breast cancer, with the exception of my mother- Ooh
[00:05:12] Dr. Jenn Simmons: who had colon cancer. So my- And
[00:05:14] Dr. Taz: how [00:05:15] many generations back, just out of curiosity?
[00:05:16] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Well, I only know from my grandfather's generation. Okay. I don't [00:05:20] know beyond that. Beyond that,
[00:05:21] Dr. Taz: uh-huh.
[00:05:21] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Um, and my grandfather was first generation [00:05:25] here, as he, he had 13 siblings. Mm-hmm. All the girls got breast [00:05:30] cancer. All of their children.
[00:05:31] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And you know, I have a very big family.
[00:05:33] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:05:34] Dr. Jenn Simmons: All [00:05:35] of their children got breast cancer. So I don't remember a time in my life where [00:05:40] I didn't know about breast cancer.
[00:05:41] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:05:41] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It was absolutely part of that thread, that [00:05:45] tapestry of our family.
[00:05:45] Dr. Taz: Hmm.
[00:05:46] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So growing up, I had a first cousin. Her name [00:05:50] was Linda Creed.
[00:05:50] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:05:51] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Linda was a singer-songwriter in the 1970s and 1980s. [00:05:55] I'm dating myself right now.
[00:05:56] Dr. Taz: That's okay. I'm right there with you.
[00:05:58] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So no
[00:05:58] Dr. Taz: worries.
[00:05:59] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So [00:06:00] she wrote all the music for The Spinners and The Stylistics. Oh,
[00:06:02] Dr. Taz: wow.
[00:06:03] Dr. Jenn Simmons: She was [00:06:05] beautiful, brilliant, larger than life, lit up every [00:06:10] room that she walked into. She wrote 54 hits in all.
[00:06:14] Dr. Taz: [00:06:15] Amazing.
[00:06:15] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Her most famous song was The Greatest Love of All.
[00:06:19] Dr. Taz: The one Whitney [00:06:20] Houston sings- Yes ... that we all know- Yes ... and sing in the shower sometimes. Yes. Oh,
[00:06:23] Dr. Jenn Simmons: amazing. That [00:06:25] iconic song was written by my first cousin, my hero. Wow. So she [00:06:30] actually wrote that song in 1977 as the title track to the movie The Greatest- Mm-hmm
[00:06:34] Dr. Jenn Simmons: starring Muhammad [00:06:35] Ali.
[00:06:35] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:06:36] Dr. Jenn Simmons: But it really received its acclaim in March of 1986 when [00:06:40] Whitney Houston- Yes ... would release that song to the world.
[00:06:42] Dr. Taz: Yep.
[00:06:42] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And at that time, it would spend 14 weeks at [00:06:45] the top of the charts. Only my cundus- my cousin Linda would never know, [00:06:50] because Linda died of metastatic breast cancer one month after [00:06:55] Whitney released that song.
[00:06:56] Dr. Taz: No.
[00:06:57] Dr. Jenn Simmons: She was 37 years old.
[00:06:59] Dr. Taz: [00:07:00] 37 years old.
[00:07:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I was 16 years old, and my hero died.
[00:07:04] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:07:05]
[00:07:06] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And despite the decades, I still can't tell [00:07:10] this story- I get it ... without tears coming to my eyes.
[00:07:12] Dr. Taz: I get it.
[00:07:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:07:15] And her life, and ultimately her death, gave birth to my life's purpose. Because [00:07:20] I never wanted another woman, another family, another [00:07:25] community to have to suffer the way that mine suffered.
[00:07:27] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:07:28] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And so I did the only thing I knew [00:07:30] how to do. I became a doctor, the first doctor in my family. Was
[00:07:33] Dr. Taz: she your motivation for being a doctor?
[00:07:34] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:07:35] Absolutely. 100%,
[00:07:35] Dr. Taz: yep. Yeah.
[00:07:37] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I became a surgeon. I became [00:07:40] the first fellowship-trained breast surgeon in Philadelphia.
[00:07:43] Dr. Taz: None of which are easy [00:07:45] accomplishments- ... even in the '70s and '80s, so.
[00:07:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I became the first oncoplastic [00:07:50] surgeon in Pennsylvania, and I did this all, I did it really well, [00:07:55] and I did it for a really long time, and I did it long enough for my mother to be [00:08:00] diagnosed.
[00:08:00] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:08:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I did it long enough for my aunt to be diagnosed. And with all the [00:08:05] writing on the walls, and what, at what was arguably [00:08:10] the top of my career, as I'm running the breast program and running the [00:08:15] cancer program for my hospital, and I'm an author and a wife and a [00:08:20] mother and an athlete and a philanthropist, and I am [00:08:25] arguably one of the most high-performing people that you've ever met, and I go [00:08:30] from that to I can't walk across the room because I don't [00:08:35] have the breath in my body.
[00:08:36] Dr. Taz: Mm. How old are you at this point? [00:08:40]
[00:08:40] Dr. Jenn Simmons: 46.
[00:08:42] Dr. Taz: So this is med school, [00:08:45] residency, practice-
[00:08:46] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah, I'm in practice for about- ... childbirth,
[00:08:48] Dr. Taz: post ...
[00:08:48] Dr. Jenn Simmons: 16 [00:08:50] years at this point ... when this happens. And, uh- [00:08:55] I find myself, I go through this intensive workup, [00:09:00] and I find myself sitting in the office of my friend and colleague and [00:09:05] physician, and he tells me that I need surgery and chemo-
[00:09:09] Dr. Taz: [00:09:10] Mm
[00:09:10] Dr. Jenn Simmons: radiation. You have breast cancer. And I'm gonna be on lifelong medication, thyroid [00:09:15] And despite the fact that these are things that I [00:09:20] say all day, every day, without hesitation or reservation, [00:09:25] when these words are coming at you, it has a different meaning.
[00:09:29] Dr. Taz: I'm [00:09:30] sure. What were you feeling in that moment?
[00:09:33] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I was blank.[00:09:35]
[00:09:35] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I was blank. And the most resounding [00:09:40] thing that happened in that moment was a voice that I couldn't [00:09:45] quiet-
[00:09:45] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ...
[00:09:45] Dr. Jenn Simmons: that I didn't recognize, that was telling me, "There's [00:09:50] something more. Go find it." Now, I am deeply steeped in [00:09:55] conventional medicine.
[00:09:56] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:09:56] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I am a conventionally trained physician, I'm a [00:10:00] surgeon, I'm running an NIH-accredited cancer program.
[00:10:04] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:10:05] I did not know of anything else. I didn't know that anything else [00:10:10] existed. And yet, you can call it God, you can call [00:10:15] it universe, you can call it whatever you wanna call it, there's a voice that I cannot [00:10:20] silence in my head that says, "There's something more. Go find it."
[00:10:23] Dr. Taz: Wow.
[00:10:24] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:10:25] And I walked out of the office that day, and my, my friend, my [00:10:30] doctor, told me exactly what I had told thousands of women [00:10:35] before that when they asked me, "What will happen if I don't treat?"
[00:10:37] Dr. Jenn Simmons: My doctor told me what I [00:10:40] had told thousands of women before that when they asked me, "What will happen [00:10:45] if I don't treat?" He told me I was gonna die of my disease. And [00:10:50] I knew what he was saying, like intuitively, I [00:10:55] knew that I had said those things, and I believed those things, and I knew [00:11:00] he was trying to give me the very best advice that, that he could.
[00:11:04] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right. [00:11:05] And I knew that he believed that, and yet I [00:11:10] felt so called to go find whatever this [00:11:15] was that, that was, y- you know, listen to this voice- [00:11:20] Right ... this intuition. And so I went on a journey. This was a [00:11:25] very selfish journey. This wasn't about, like, figuring out how I was gonna [00:11:30] heal my patients. This was about figuring out how I was gonna live and raise my [00:11:35] children.
[00:11:35] Dr. Taz: Absolutely.
[00:11:37] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So God is good, [00:11:40] and I very shortly thereafter find myself sitting in a lecture [00:11:45] hall, and this tall, lanky guy walks on the stage, big toothy grin, [00:11:50] and he introduces him- himself as a functional medicine physician.
[00:11:53] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm. [00:11:55]
[00:11:55] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Now, des- despite the fact that I'm sick, I am still [00:12:00] cynical. I still don't know where, where I'm going or what I'm looking [00:12:05] for.
[00:12:05] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:12:06] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I'm still my snooty booty self.
[00:12:08] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:08] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And all I could think of [00:12:10] was, "There's no such thing as a functional medicine physician. What is this quack talking [00:12:15] about?"
[00:12:15] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:12:17] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And then I remember that I'm sick, and I'm there for a reason, so I [00:12:20] check my ego, and I tune in, and thank God I did. [00:12:25] Because what I was going to learn from this man over the next [00:12:30] two hours would not only telescope how I was gonna recover my health, [00:12:35] but it was also going to direct what I was going to do with [00:12:40] the rest of my life.
[00:12:41] Dr. Taz: And you had never heard of functional medicine before? Never. Never [00:12:45] known about, like-
[00:12:45] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Never ...
[00:12:46] Dr. Taz: kind of this sort of underworld of medicine is what I call it. No. Because we're not [00:12:50] exposed to it at all. No, I thought he was
[00:12:51] Dr. Jenn Simmons: a quack.
[00:12:52] Dr. Taz: Yep.
[00:12:52] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right?
[00:12:53] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:12:53] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So now [00:12:55] this is 2016.
[00:12:56] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:12:58] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And [00:13:00] in 2016, we didn't talk about any of this stuff.
[00:13:03] Dr. Jenn Simmons: This was not [00:13:05] mainstream. I mean, you might have known.
[00:13:06] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:13:07] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And there might have been some fringe people who knew, [00:13:10] right? Early, the early enlightened, I call them. But we didn't [00:13:15] talk about this stuff, and even, you know, I went to Jefferson for medical school. Yeah. Oh, yeah. There was a [00:13:20] school of integrative medicine there, and we thought that that's where the crazies went.
[00:13:24] Dr. Taz: [00:13:25] Mm-hmm.
[00:13:25] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Like, you know, the fringe people who like- I, trust me ... didn't quite get it. Yep. [00:13:30] Right? Like, they were hanging out in the school of integrative medicine, and the [00:13:35] serious doctors were in places like I was, like in the operating [00:13:40] room.
[00:13:40] Dr. Taz: I've told, I've told this story so many times, like when I chose this path, [00:13:45] which also chose me because I got sick, but I was 28, you know, as I [00:13:50] started much younger, so by 2016, I- I'm a slow
[00:13:52] Dr. Jenn Simmons: learner.
[00:13:52] Dr. Taz: No, it's just, it's just when things happen to us, [00:13:55] right? Like, it totally takes you down a different road, and so 2016, when you're entering [00:14:00] this conversation, I had already been in practice for about seven or, seven or eight years. [00:14:05] So you can imagine if you're thinking quack then, I was a super quack back in [00:14:10] 2008- Yeah
[00:14:10] Dr. Taz: 2009, right? And I remember my med school buddies being, [00:14:15] you know, literally sitting me down like, "Why would you do that? Like, why would you jeopardize [00:14:20] your name and your reputation?" Mm-hmm. You know? And, you know, that was the time and the [00:14:25] era that we were in, and we're in a different one now, thankfully, but we still have a lot of work to do, and we still [00:14:30] have a long way to go.
[00:14:30] Dr. Taz: But I wanna hear- For sure.
[00:14:32] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Without question ...
[00:14:33] Dr. Taz: what you did next and what happened [00:14:35] to you. So
[00:14:36] Dr. Jenn Simmons: what I learned in that, in the next two hours, [00:14:40] right, is that in all of [00:14:45] chronic illness-
[00:14:45] Dr. Taz: Yep ...
[00:14:46] Dr. Jenn Simmons: but most demonstrably in the [00:14:50] area of cancer, we are completely focused on the wrong thing. [00:14:55] Specifically with cancer, we're focused on the tumor.
[00:14:58] Dr. Jenn Simmons: All the focus- [00:15:00] Yes ... is on the tumor, right? But the tumor's not the problem. The tumor is the [00:15:05] symptom of the problem, and unless you back up 10 steps and ask the [00:15:10] question, "Why is this cancer there?" you're never going to [00:15:15] solve anything. You're never going to change the trajectory of that person's life. [00:15:20] Even me as a surgeon, removing the tumor doesn't solve the [00:15:25] problem.
[00:15:26] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I may delay the inevitable-
[00:15:28] Dr. Taz: Right ...
[00:15:29] Dr. Jenn Simmons: but I'm not [00:15:30] solving the problem. I'm not changing the trajectory of that person's life. [00:15:35] So as it turns out, this quack was Mark Hyman.
[00:15:38] Dr. Taz: Ah, we know [00:15:40] that name.
[00:15:40] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Which, you know, today, you can, you can say his [00:15:45] name, and most people know exactly- Right ... who you're talking about.
[00:15:48] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:15:49] Dr. Jenn Simmons: But in 2016, [00:15:50] not so much. Mm-hmm. And I had never heard of him. [00:15:55] So, and he's talking about these concepts that were never introduced to me. [00:16:00] Not
[00:16:00] Dr. Taz: at
[00:16:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: all, yeah. Root cause illness. Who ever heard of that? [00:16:05] When did we ever ask why? We never did. We never
[00:16:09] Dr. Taz: did. We weren't [00:16:10] trained
[00:16:10] Dr. Jenn Simmons: to. A really- Yeah ... good doctor takes a constellation [00:16:15] of symptoms, gives it a name, and prescribes a [00:16:20] drug.
[00:16:20] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:16:20] Dr. Jenn Simmons: A procedure.
[00:16:21] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:16:21] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Something along those lines. That's what a really good [00:16:25] doctor does in that conventional system. And [00:16:30] nowhere are they sitting with their patients for an hour or two or [00:16:35] three trying to figure out how they got here, right? So this [00:16:40] was a completely new concept to me, and I get very [00:16:45] excited.
[00:16:45] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I'm an early adopter and I am a quick start.
[00:16:48] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:16:49] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I enroll [00:16:50] in the school for, in the Institute for Functional Medicine.
[00:16:53] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:16:54] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I spend the [00:16:55] next three years just immersed in the study of functional medicine.
[00:16:58] Dr. Taz: What's going on with you [00:17:00] meanwhile?
[00:17:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Oh, I'm getting much worse.
[00:17:01] Dr. Taz: You're getting worse?
[00:17:02] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah, yeah. So [00:17:05] it turns out that you should not embark on a journey and [00:17:10] think that you can heal yourself.
[00:17:11] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:17:12] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And I didn't know what I didn't know.
[00:17:14] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:17:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And I [00:17:15] didn't ask for help. I, I, I got much, much worse before I got better.
[00:17:19] Dr. Taz: Okay.
[00:17:19] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:17:20] Much, much worse. Fortunately, I did get better, but it took a very [00:17:25] long time. It took years, and it didn't need to.
[00:17:28] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:17:29] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:17:30] Um, and I also made some very, very, very [00:17:35] well-intentioned bad decisions.
[00:17:37] Dr. Taz: We do that as doctors. We do [00:17:40] that all the time. We should not be doctoring ourselves. No. Let's just put that out there.
[00:17:44] Dr. Jenn Simmons: No. Or our [00:17:45] children, as it turns out.
[00:17:45] Dr. Taz: Or our families. Yeah. And yes, too many stories there. Yeah, yeah. But absolutely not, yeah.
[00:17:49] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:17:50] It does not work out so well. No,
[00:17:51] Dr. Taz: mm-mm.
[00:17:52] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I love you, Andrew.
[00:17:54] Dr. Taz: Oh, I have [00:17:55] Vic.
[00:17:56] Dr. Taz: Man walking around ... Well, I shouldn't share. Walking around with a stent right now 'cause he [00:18:00] wouldn't listen to me. Oh. So yeah.
[00:18:01] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Oh, okay. Yeah,
[00:18:02] Dr. Taz: anyhow.
[00:18:03] Dr. Jenn Simmons: No, this is, this is my son who, [00:18:05] like, is forever researching this and that and this and that, and asking me, "Mom, [00:18:10] I wanna do this and I wanna do that," and I'm like, "Ah."
[00:18:12] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:18:13] Dr. Jenn Simmons: But-
[00:18:13] Dr. Taz: Well ...
[00:18:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: yeah, we digress.
[00:18:14] Dr. Taz: [00:18:15] Yes.
[00:18:15] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Um, so you know, what was happening with me [00:18:20] is that at every step along the way in what I was [00:18:25] learning-
[00:18:25] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ...
[00:18:26] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I was applying whatever that, that was to me [00:18:30] then, and not really solving for what was going on- What was happening ... [00:18:35] with me. Um, and what was going on with me was very complex, [00:18:40] and- I want to be clear about the fact that [00:18:45] what was going on with me and my why is different than anyone [00:18:50] else's.
[00:18:50] Dr. Taz: So true.
[00:18:51] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And so people ask me all the time, "What did [00:18:55] you do to heal?" Well, what I did to heal was [00:19:00] take care of the things that I did to get me sick, right? And a [00:19:05] lot of them I didn't know about, and a lot of them people don't know about. So [00:19:10] when we ask why, when we're in this position with patients, [00:19:15] this is not about blame or shame.
[00:19:16] Dr. Taz: No.
[00:19:17] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right? And no one ever does [00:19:20] anything with the intention of getting cancer, including smoking cigarettes. Mm-hmm. Like, [00:19:25] find me the smoker out there that's like, "I'm smoking because I wanna get lung cancer."
[00:19:29] Dr. Taz: [00:19:30] Right.
[00:19:30] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right? Like, no one is doing this intentionally, but yet [00:19:35] there are many things that we do unknowingly [00:19:40] that lead to illness.
[00:19:43] Dr. Taz: I love your point though, because for [00:19:45] so many people, the first emotion around a cancer diagnosis, [00:19:50] honestly around any diagnosis, is a lot of shame.
[00:19:52] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It is.
[00:19:53] Dr. Taz: And then there's the guilt, [00:19:55] and then there's the blame. Yes. And it's kind of you walk through those three steps- Yes ... over and over again. Yes. [00:20:00] And I think that, you know, if you do get a diagnosis, it's not because you did something [00:20:05] wrong.
[00:20:05] Dr. Taz: No. And I think I hear that all the time. You didn't do something wrong. [00:20:10] Now, we wanna talk about the why behind cancer, and I think the [00:20:15] why applies often to every type of cancer, not just breast cancer, right? That's for sure true. But breast [00:20:20] cancer has its own issue. And I think you make a really good point that everybody's why is [00:20:25] different.
[00:20:25] Dr. Taz: I talk a lot in the rooms about a three-hit theory, that there are usually [00:20:30] three major drivers, and we need to find it and nail it, and then turn this thing around. [00:20:35] When you think of your own story, I have two questions for you here. First, if someone's listening to [00:20:40] us and they just got a diagnosis of breast cancer or of cancer, what would you [00:20:45] tell them?
[00:20:46] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Take a breath. Take a pause. [00:20:50] Especially in the world of breast cancer with very rare exceptions, which I'm happy to talk about the res- [00:20:55] the exceptions, you have time. You have space. That's
[00:20:58] Dr. Taz: such a gift in [00:21:00] itself.
[00:21:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes. Yes. And in this conventional world, [00:21:05] everyone is kind of, like, put on this runaway train of treatment.
[00:21:09] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Like, "Hurry, [00:21:10] hurry, hurry. Sign up for surgery. Sign up for chemo. Sign up for radiation. You have to get treated right [00:21:15] away." And they do that on purpose. Right. We have a very fear-based [00:21:20] system, a very fear-based system. And think about how good you are [00:21:25] at making decisions when you're stressed.
[00:21:27] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:21:28] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And is there a [00:21:30] greater stressor than a breast cancer diagnosis?
[00:21:33] Dr. Taz: Not at
[00:21:33] Dr. Jenn Simmons: all. Right? So when you are [00:21:35] stressed, you literally can't think. It is an intentional [00:21:40] survival mechanism, right? Because we only know two states, [00:21:45] right? We know safety, and we know danger.
[00:21:46] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:21:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And we only know these [00:21:50] unsophisticated, ancient dangers. Like, we don't understand the difference [00:21:55] between a deadline and a saber-tooth tiger.
[00:21:58] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:21:58] Dr. Jenn Simmons: The only thing we know [00:22:00] is saber-tooth tiger. So if we are encountering a saber-tooth tiger [00:22:05] We just need to run. We don't need to think about which way to run and should I make a [00:22:10] left turn or a right. We just need to run. Just go, go, go, right? So what [00:22:15] happens is that the blood gets shunted away from the thinking part, the cognitive [00:22:20] part of our brain, and where the monkey brain is on.
[00:22:23] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Well, this [00:22:25] is what's happening when people get a breast cancer diagnosis. They're immediately in [00:22:30] danger.
[00:22:30] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:22:31] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right? They have that stress response, and then we're asking them in that [00:22:35] time and space to make an, a decision that's gonna affect them for the [00:22:40] rest of their life. And they're
[00:22:40] Dr. Taz: inundated with information- Yes
[00:22:42] Dr. Taz: and data and statistics- [00:22:45] That they cannot- ... that they don't
[00:22:45] Dr. Jenn Simmons: understand ... possibly process.
[00:22:47] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:22:48] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So here's the [00:22:50] exceptions If you have inflammatory breast cancer, this is an emergency.
[00:22:54] Dr. Taz: [00:22:55] Mm-hmm.
[00:22:56] Dr. Jenn Simmons: This is something that is already systemic. Your clock is [00:23:00] ticking, unfortunately, and you need treatment right away. This is a do [00:23:05] not pass go, do not collect $200.
[00:23:08] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Just
[00:23:08] Dr. Taz: get on it.
[00:23:08] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Just get on it.
[00:23:09] Dr. Taz: Yeah. [00:23:10]
[00:23:10] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Okay? The second thing is, if you have metastatic [00:23:15] disease to the bone that has caused a fracture, right? These are very painful. [00:23:20] People are suffering. It is impossible to heal when you are in [00:23:25] pain. That is something that needs radiation right away, because we need to get people out of pain [00:23:30] in order for them to heal.
[00:23:31] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:23:32] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And the third thing is, if you have brain mets. Yes. The brain is [00:23:35] in a fixed space. We cannot afford for too much swelling because when you get [00:23:40] too much swelling, the blood supply to the brain gets cut off. This is not compatible with life.
[00:23:44] Dr. Taz: [00:23:45] Right.
[00:23:45] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So if you have a brain met or brain mets, you need treatment for that right away.[00:23:50]
[00:23:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Everyone else, including people who are diagnosed with metastatic disease, [00:23:55] everyone else, you have time. You have time to learn [00:24:00] about the disease-
[00:24:00] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ...
[00:24:01] Dr. Jenn Simmons: learn about the treatments, see what's right for [00:24:05] you, assemble your team, make your plan. And the thing that [00:24:10] everyone who gets breast cancer, breast ca- breast cancer gets-
[00:24:14] Dr. Taz: [00:24:15] Right
[00:24:15] Dr. Jenn Simmons: is a treatment plan. But the thing that everyone with breast cancer [00:24:20] needs is a health plan.
[00:24:21] Dr. Taz: Wow.
[00:24:23] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And that's why I wrote my book. [00:24:25] That's why I wrote The Smart Woman's Guide to Breast Cancer, because people need this. [00:24:30] We are not allowing women to make informed decisions right [00:24:35] now. Right. You can't make an informed decision if you don't have the information, and you [00:24:40] certainly don't have the whole story.
[00:24:42] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So this is how I'm, [00:24:45] I'm changing, forever changing how we're treating breast cancer. [00:24:50] Because to do th- to continue doing it the way that we're doing it, [00:24:55] it's immoral. It really is.
[00:24:57] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:24:57] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It's unethical.
[00:24:58] Dr. Taz: And it's, the [00:25:00] numbers continue to go up in terms of-
[00:25:02] Dr. Jenn Simmons: They do, but, but in, in [00:25:05] many ways, those numbers aren't real.
[00:25:07] Dr. Taz: Really?
[00:25:07] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And it's part and parcel to how we're [00:25:10] screening. Because if you use mammogram [00:25:15] as the way to screen-
[00:25:16] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ...
[00:25:16] Dr. Jenn Simmons: and please know- The [00:25:20] mammographic screening program, when it was started in the 1970s, I really do believe it [00:25:25] was started with the best of intention. It was just built [00:25:30] on very flawed thinking.
[00:25:32] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So when it was started in the 1970s, [00:25:35] it was built on a foundational understanding- Mm-hmm ... that breast cancer growth is both [00:25:40] linear and predictable. Meaning that a breast cancer starts really [00:25:45] small, and it grows to some critical size, at which time it's more [00:25:50] likely to metastasize or spread. So if you could find it before it [00:25:55] reached that critical size- Right
[00:25:57] Dr. Jenn Simmons: you could save lives and save breasts. [00:26:00] This theory is intelligent. This theory is logical. It just doesn't [00:26:05] happen to be true.
[00:26:05] Dr. Taz: Ugh.
[00:26:07] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So breast cancer growth is neither linear [00:26:10] nor predictable. Breast cancer is all about biology, and it is what it [00:26:15] is from the very start. So if it's gonna be an aggressive process, it's gonna be an aggressive process [00:26:20] from the very start, and unfortunately, these women that [00:26:25] have aggressive breast cancers, they are not served at all by mammogram.
[00:26:29] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:26:30] Mammogram does not change the trajectory of their lives. So why are
[00:26:33] Dr. Taz: we still recommending it? [00:26:35]
[00:26:35] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Well, I'll tell you.
[00:26:36] Dr. Taz: Okay.
[00:26:37] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Excellent question.
[00:26:38] Dr. Taz: I, I mean, it's just so [00:26:40] frustrating- Yeah ... 'cause as somebody who personally found a lump, went down this [00:26:45] nine-month journey of, "Okay, you have a lump. Now we need an MRI. Now we need an ultrasound.[00:26:50]
[00:26:50] Dr. Taz: Now we need to go look at the other breast. Now we need to biopsy it." And just, like, walking through those [00:26:55] steps as a very busy woman, like so many women are-
[00:26:57] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Mm-hmm ...
[00:26:58] Dr. Taz: it took me six to nine months- Mm-hmm ... to [00:27:00] finally learn that it was negative. Mm-hmm. Right? But in the six to nine months, I'm like, "Is my will updated?
[00:27:04] Dr. Taz: Is [00:27:05] everything okay?" Like, your brain starts to go in-
[00:27:08] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes ... crazy spaces. And in the meantime, [00:27:10] you generated a lot of work-
[00:27:12] Dr. Taz: I
[00:27:12] Dr. Jenn Simmons: did ... and business for the system.
[00:27:13] Dr. Taz: I sure did.
[00:27:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: You [00:27:15] had how many studies? At least five appointments- Five studies ... two
[00:27:16] Dr. Taz: biopsies.
[00:27:18] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yep.
[00:27:19] Dr. Taz: Yep. [00:27:20]
[00:27:20] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So it's all about the business of [00:27:25] medicine, unfortunately.
[00:27:26] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:27:26] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So, you know- [00:27:30] When that program was started, they really did believe that [00:27:35] they were gonna save lives and save breasts. Right. And that's what we have been told for [00:27:40] decades. For 50 years, we have been told that mammograms save [00:27:45] lives and save breasts, and yet we've known since 1977 that that's [00:27:50] not true.
[00:27:50] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:27:52] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So when you look at-
[00:27:53] Dr. Taz: This makes me so mad.
[00:27:54] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:27:55] It's infuriating. So when you look at no matter how many [00:28:00] mammograms we do every year, the exact same number of women die of breast cancer. [00:28:05] We are not impacting the bottom line. No matter how many mammograms we do every [00:28:10] year, the same exact number of women present with aggressive disease.
[00:28:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: These are the [00:28:15] women that are not impacted by mammogram. The only women that are [00:28:20] impacted by mammogram are the women who don't have aggressive disease, [00:28:25] and for those women, mammogram doesn't matter 'cause they are gonna do [00:28:30] well anyway.
[00:28:31] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:28:31] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So let's look at the large scale studies- Okay ... because I think that that [00:28:35] is the most important and the most demonstrative So [00:28:40] looking at the Swedish trial, 600,000 women, they have universal healthcare, so [00:28:45] everyone- Right
[00:28:45] Dr. Jenn Simmons: has the same access, everyone has the same care. [00:28:50] 300,000 are screened with mammogram, 300,000 are just getting physical examination. [00:28:55] The same exact number of women die of breast cancer in both groups.
[00:28:59] Dr. Taz: Hmm. [00:29:00]
[00:29:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And the only difference is in the women that screen with mammogram, they have [00:29:05] 20 to 30% more breast cancers.
[00:29:08] Dr. Taz: What's going on there?
[00:29:09] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So [00:29:10] it's either that mammogram is causing them or mammogram is picking up [00:29:15] things that would have never become clinically relevant, would have never [00:29:20] affected their lives, because they're not presenting in the other group, [00:29:25] right? So we are treating [00:29:30] 20 to 30% of breast cancers, of screen-detected breast cancers [00:29:35] unnecessarily, and treatment for breast cancer is [00:29:40] not benign.
[00:29:40] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:29:41] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Now, there was another large scale study, the Canadian Breast [00:29:45] Cancer Screening Study, that, you know, maybe when [00:29:50] you look at all women across the board, maybe it's not beneficial, but maybe young [00:29:55] women, maybe it's beneficial in young women. We're hearing a lot now about- Right ... we should screen early- Younger and younger
[00:29:59] Dr. Jenn Simmons: and screen [00:30:00] often, right? Right. So let's look, right? 90,000 [00:30:05] women, ages 40 to 59, 45,000 [00:30:10] screen with mammogram, 45,000 just have physical examination. [00:30:15] Same exact outcome. The same exact number of women die of breast [00:30:20] cancer in each group, and the only difference is if you screen with [00:30:25] mammogram, 20 to 30% increased risk of being diagnosed with breast cancer.
[00:30:29] Dr. Taz: [00:30:30] It's the same as the other
[00:30:30] Dr. Jenn Simmons: study. The same as the other study So [00:30:35] now we know. Mammograms do not save lives, and if you [00:30:40] screen with mammogram, and the more mammograms you have, the higher [00:30:45] your likelihood is of being diagnosed with breast cancer. Mammograms do not [00:30:50] save lives. Oh
[00:30:50] Dr. Taz: my gosh, I have so many high-risk, quote-unquote, "high-risk patients," right, [00:30:55] that are told to get mammograms every six months.
[00:30:58] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes. Do you know why? [00:31:00]
[00:31:00] Dr. Taz: I'm
[00:31:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: afraid of the[00:31:05]
[00:31:05] Dr. Jenn Simmons: answer. It's the one way to guarantee that they will get into the system. Mm. That's the one way to guarantee that they will become a patient. [00:31:10] It's horrible. And I do think that there are a lot of doctors that are [00:31:15] participating in this system unknowingly.
[00:31:17] Dr. Taz: Of course. Yeah.
[00:31:18] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Because, you know, when we [00:31:20] were in medical school- We're trained a certain way.
[00:31:21] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah ... we are trained- Right ... and we are taught-
[00:31:24] Dr. Taz: Right ...
[00:31:24] Dr. Jenn Simmons: that mammograms [00:31:25] save lives. I mean, have you ever heard anything different? No. No. Right? Like, the things that [00:31:30] I say all the time are considered by many like heresy.
[00:31:34] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:31:34] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:31:35] And I get it, because if you never looked into the data, you wouldn't know. [00:31:40] You wouldn't know.
[00:31:40] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And for all of those years that I was a breast cancer surgeon, because I [00:31:45] did leave surgery in 2019-
[00:31:46] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ...
[00:31:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: because I knew that I could not stay-
[00:31:49] Dr. Taz: Right ...
[00:31:49] Dr. Jenn Simmons: in this [00:31:50] system.
[00:31:50] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:31:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: That we were actually hurting people So [00:31:55] I never questioned. You know, when you're, when the [00:32:00] people that you admire the most teach you this, [00:32:05] and when you're in medical school, you're looking up to these giants- Absolutely
[00:32:09] Dr. Jenn Simmons: of [00:32:10] industry.
[00:32:10] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:32:10] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Giants.
[00:32:11] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:32:12] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Why would I ever think that... You, you [00:32:15] trust that they've done the due diligence. Right. And if they're telling me they save lives, then they save lives. [00:32:20] Right. And they're telling me that early diagnosis saves lives, then I believe it.
[00:32:23] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:24] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Just doesn't [00:32:25] happen to be true. Now, listen, if we're not saving lives, but we're [00:32:30] saving breasts, this is a worthwhile endeavor, right?
[00:32:33] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Because [00:32:35] after all, no matter how you try to prepare a [00:32:40] woman for mastectomy, you cannot. Those scars run [00:32:45] so deep. It's
[00:32:46] Dr. Taz: horrific.
[00:32:46] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It's horrific. They will never ever, [00:32:50] ever, for the rest of their lives, once they've had a mastectomy, they'll never [00:32:55] forget that they had breast cancer. There is a daily constant [00:33:00] reminder-
[00:33:00] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm
[00:33:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: that they've had breast cancer. So if we can save breasts, [00:33:05] that's a worthwhile endeavor. Yeah. So let's look at the data. When we started to [00:33:10] screen with mammogram, did the mastectomy rate go down? [00:33:15] And the answer is no. In fact, it increased by [00:33:20] 20%.
[00:33:20] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:33:21] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So we're not saving lives. We're not saving [00:33:25] breasts. What are we doing?
[00:33:26] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Well, you asked, where's all [00:33:30] this breast cancer coming from?
[00:33:31] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:33:31] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Well, some of it is coming from the mammogram [00:33:35] because even though we gave it a lovely name, mammogram, picture of the breast-
[00:33:39] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ... [00:33:40]
[00:33:40] Dr. Jenn Simmons: it's an X-ray. It's an X-ray to what is [00:33:45] arguably one of the most vulnerable tissues of the body, because the breast [00:33:50] is one of the organs, and the thyroid, these are our canaries in the coal mine.
[00:33:54] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:33:54] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:33:55] Right? These are very environmentally sensitive organs. And what do [00:34:00] we do with a mammogram? We put that organ under 20 to 50 pounds of [00:34:05] pressure-
[00:34:05] Dr. Taz: Mm ...
[00:34:06] Dr. Jenn Simmons: and then we radiate it And we do it every year for [00:34:10] good measure, and sometimes we do it more than once a year. So [00:34:15] listen, I am not saying that one mammogram is going to cause breast cancer.
[00:34:19] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:34:20] No, of course not. But who gets one mammogram?
[00:34:23] Dr. Taz: Right. So what do we do? [00:34:25] You know, I'm thinking about all the women out there who have [00:34:30] breast cancer in their family- Mm-hmm ... and are terrified.
[00:34:32] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Mm-hmm.
[00:34:33] Dr. Taz: Or they have a friend that they've [00:34:35] lost to breast cancer, and we need some way- I
[00:34:39] Dr. Jenn Simmons: know ...
[00:34:39] Dr. Taz: of [00:34:40] monitoring what's happening- I know
[00:34:42] Dr. Taz: with, well, first of all, we can get into a really long conversation about overall health, [00:34:45] but when it comes to breast health in, you know, specifically, what's [00:34:50] the, what's the right step? Where do we start? Yeah. What's the age to start? Yeah.
[00:34:54] Dr. Jenn Simmons: How
[00:34:54] Dr. Taz: [00:34:55] frequently? These are- What- ...
[00:34:55] Dr. Jenn Simmons: great, amazing questions ... what do we do?
[00:34:57] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So I'm going to start off [00:35:00] with my tagline, which is breast health is health.
[00:35:03] Dr. Taz: Of course.
[00:35:03] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And the very same [00:35:05] things that you're gonna do to have healthy breasts are also going to give you a healthy brain, [00:35:10] healthy mood, healthy heart, healthy gut, healthy skin, healthy bones, healthy [00:35:15] joints, healthy everything.
[00:35:16] Dr. Jenn Simmons: 'Cause it's all connected. Right? 'Cause we're all connected. So, yeah. We're just one being. Now, [00:35:20] the question is, how do you screen for breast cancer? Right. Right? [00:35:25] Because after all, breast cancer is probably the [00:35:30] thing that women fear most, despite the fact that women die [00:35:35] of cardiovascular disease- More
[00:35:36] Dr. Jenn Simmons: exponentially more. That's
[00:35:38] Dr. Taz: the number one, right.
[00:35:38] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah. Exponentially [00:35:40] more. From the age of 30 on, exponentially more than they die of breast [00:35:45] cancer, and yet the fear is absolutely positively [00:35:50] centered around breast cancer, and I get it. Okay? I get it. But [00:35:55] we've been so conditioned to think that we have to suffer through this current system, and it's a [00:36:00] lie.
[00:36:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It's not true. You can safely, effectively screen [00:36:05] for breast cancer, and then we have to talk about prevention. Mm-hmm. Because that is the most- Of course ... important [00:36:10] thing. Yes, definitely. And early detection, even though I have early detection programs [00:36:15] built all into my programming, early detection is not prevention.
[00:36:19] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:36:20] Prevention is prevention.
[00:36:21] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:36:22] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And early detection, I mean, the horse is [00:36:25] out of the barn.
[00:36:25] Dr. Taz: Totally.
[00:36:26] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right?
[00:36:26] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:36:27] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So how do we screen safely for [00:36:30] breast cancer? Because it is unethical to [00:36:35] expose a healthy women, a healthy woman and healthy breasts [00:36:40] to radiation. So I don't think anyone should have a screening mammogram [00:36:45] ever.
[00:36:45] Dr. Taz: Oh my gosh.
[00:36:46] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Ever.
[00:36:47] Dr. Taz: Okay, that in itself is going to rock [00:36:50] everybody's world.
[00:36:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes, I get it.
[00:36:51] Dr. Taz: No screening mammograms-
[00:36:53] Dr. Jenn Simmons: No screening mammograms ... ever. [00:36:55] And you don't need them.
[00:36:56] Dr. Taz: So
[00:36:56] Dr. Jenn Simmons: what is- So here's my screening ma- paradigm. Three things [00:37:00] First, I think every woman should be doing self-breast examination.
[00:37:04] Dr. Taz: [00:37:05] Mm-hmm.
[00:37:06] Dr. Jenn Simmons: No one is ever gonna know you better than you know yourself.
[00:37:09] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:37:10] I have a newsflash: every single woman thinks her breasts are lumpy. It's [00:37:15] okay. Own your lumps, right? Just-
[00:37:17] Dr. Taz: That should be a tagline: own your lumps.
[00:37:19] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Own [00:37:20]
[00:37:20] Dr. Taz: your lumps. Nice. I love it. Right? It's so-
[00:37:21] Dr. Jenn Simmons: If you know what your breasts feel like when they're normal, [00:37:25] you will recognize the abnormal, I promise you, okay?
[00:37:28] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So own your [00:37:30] lumps once a month, day seven of your cycle if you are [00:37:35] premenopausal. If you're postmenopausal, feel them on the first, right? Just do it during a [00:37:40] time that you know you're gonna do it. You don't have to examine your breasts every day. Nothing's changing that [00:37:45] quickly. Just examine- Just do it
[00:37:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: them once a month.
[00:37:48] Dr. Taz: Okay. [00:37:50]
[00:37:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: The second thing is there's a test now called the Auria test.
[00:37:53] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:37:53] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:37:55] A-U-R-I-A. This is the tears test. Have you heard of it?
[00:37:57] Dr. Taz: No.
[00:37:58] Dr. Jenn Simmons: This test is amazing. The Auria
[00:37:59] Dr. Taz: [00:38:00] test.
[00:38:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Auria.
[00:38:00] Dr. Taz: Okay.
[00:38:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: A-U-R-I-A. They're auria.care. Okay. And I actually have a code [00:38:05] for everyone to use, which makes this test very affordable.
[00:38:07] Dr. Jenn Simmons: My code is DRJENN20. [00:38:10] Okay. D-R-J-E-N-N-20 makes this test very, very affordable. It's an at [00:38:15] home test. Get, gets sent to your house. It's a little piece of paper that you tuck [00:38:20] inside of your eyelid, close your eye for five minutes, take the [00:38:25] paper out, put it in a tube, send it off to the company. You get a result a week and a half later.
[00:38:29] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It [00:38:30] is measuring for these proteins, these inflammatory proteins that are [00:38:35] present 93% of the time in women who have breast cancer.
[00:38:39] Dr. Taz: That [00:38:40] is fascinating.
[00:38:41] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Fascinating, right? These are the S100A8 and [00:38:45] S100A9 proteins. Now, these proteins are found in other inflammatory [00:38:50] conditions. Right. That's definitely true. So the sensitivity of this test [00:38:55] is 93%, which is better than any of the imaging except for maybe an MRI.
[00:38:59] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:39:00]
[00:39:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: But better than a mammogram, better, e- m- far better- Better ... than a [00:39:05] mammogram. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. So 93% sensitivity. The specificity [00:39:10] is 58%, which means that 42% of the time, even if you [00:39:15] don't have breast cancer, this test is gonna be positive. You're gonna get a clinically significant result. [00:39:20] However, there are no false positives on this test because if you test [00:39:25] positive for these proteins, you have the inflammatory precursors to breast [00:39:30] cancer.
[00:39:30] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Do you know what this is?
[00:39:31] Dr. Taz: No.
[00:39:32] Dr. Jenn Simmons: This is opportunity. You [00:39:35] can go have imaging, and if you don't have a breast cancer, what you [00:39:40] have is the opportunity to prevent a diagnosis. You've been given a gift. [00:39:45] You know.
[00:39:46] Dr. Taz: So we should all be doing this.
[00:39:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: We should all be doing this, and you can [00:39:50] be doing it twice a year.
[00:39:51] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:39:52] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And we tell people to start at 30, and [00:39:55] do it twice a year. And if you have a clinically significant result, [00:40:00] my book- Yeah ... The Smart Woman's Guide to Breast Cancer. And I have the breast cancer [00:40:05] prevention program. So take my course. Turn this train [00:40:10] around. And you can turn it around. You have the ability.
[00:40:12] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes.
[00:40:12] Dr. Taz: Yeah. That's the- Yes ... that's the message of hope- Yes ... and [00:40:15] moving us out of this fear-based space, you know? Yes. So.
[00:40:18] Dr. Jenn Simmons: We can prevent [00:40:20] this diagnosis.
[00:40:21] Dr. Taz: That is incredible, and I am hoping everybody who's [00:40:25] hearing this is motivated.
[00:40:26] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes.
[00:40:27] Dr. Taz: Now let me ask you a question Would this [00:40:30] also correlate to just general inflammation in the body, like a CRP- Not,
[00:40:34] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:40:35] not-
[00:40:35] Dr. Taz: a sed rate?
[00:40:35] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Not so much.
[00:40:36] Dr. Taz: Okay.
[00:40:36] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So what, what the company [00:40:40] has seen it correlate with is if you have inflammatory [00:40:45] bowel disease- Yeah ... like Crohn's- Right ... or ulcerative colitis, if you are [00:40:50] in a current flare, that can be your false positive. [00:40:55] Mm. So if you're going to do this test and you have [00:41:00] that condition, I would not do it at the same time.
[00:41:03] Dr. Taz: Gotcha.
[00:41:04] Dr. Jenn Simmons: But [00:41:05] again, there are going to be what, what s- a [00:41:10] naysayer would say false positives.
[00:41:12] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:41:13] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And I will say there are [00:41:15] none, right? Like, if you have- Because
[00:41:17] Dr. Taz: the, it's trying to tell you something.
[00:41:18] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes.
[00:41:18] Dr. Taz: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:41:19] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It, [00:41:20] it's telling you that you have the inflammatory precursors to breast cancer, [00:41:25] and you have the ability to [00:41:30] do things to negate those inflammatory- So let's-
[00:41:34] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:41:35] factors ...
[00:41:35] Dr. Taz: I know it's all in your book, and I encourage everybody to get the book, especially if you've been concerned about your breast [00:41:40] health or it's just within your family or any of those type- Yes ... of things. If you took [00:41:45] maybe three top tips-
[00:41:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah ...
[00:41:47] Dr. Taz: to turn this train around, [00:41:50] you've gotten a positive when it comes to inflammatory proteins that are marking breast [00:41:55] cancer.
[00:41:55] Dr. Taz: Maybe you've gotten a positive on a screening study of some kind. What are three things you would [00:42:00] tell people to do?
[00:42:01] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Well, first I want you to know that if you have a clinically significant result, [00:42:05] you should definitely get imaging. So the imaging that I recommend is [00:42:10] a QT scan. I have pers- Perfection Imaging Centers- Mm-hmm
[00:42:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: in [00:42:15] Pennsylvania, in California. I'm opening up 50 more in the next- It's incredible ... five years. Yeah. So [00:42:20] everyone who wants access to this scan can get access to this scan. [00:42:25] This uses sound waves tr- sound wave technology transmitted through a warm [00:42:30] water bath-
[00:42:30] Dr. Taz: Wow ...
[00:42:31] Dr. Jenn Simmons: that collects 200,000 times more data points than [00:42:35] MRI and creates a true 3D reconstruction of the breast.
[00:42:39] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So in as [00:42:40] little as 20 minutes, in a spa-like experience, you can have your breasts [00:42:45] screened in a sensitive, specific, accurate way.
[00:42:49] Dr. Taz: So [00:42:50] more smashing-
[00:42:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: No more smashing ... and grabbing- No pain ... and all of that ... no radiation, [00:42:55] no compression, none of it. None of it. It is a beautiful [00:43:00] spa-like experience. And you
[00:43:00] Dr. Taz: do this once a year?
[00:43:01] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Once a year.
[00:43:02] Dr. Taz: Okay.
[00:43:03] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Once a year. So [00:43:05] everyone who has a clinically significant result should go get imaging. Now- [00:43:10] When we're talking about prevention-
[00:43:13] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm ...
[00:43:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: or [00:43:15] even you're newly diagnosed, right? There, there are [00:43:20] many things that I think about in terms of how do you start [00:43:25] to build your health? Because when you build your health, disease goes away.
[00:43:28] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:43:30]
[00:43:30] Dr. Jenn Simmons: If you're purely talking about prevention, I think [00:43:35] that you certainly need to think about what you're eating and what you're drinking, because [00:43:40] 80% of our exposures to the outside world are through what we eat and what we drink.
[00:43:44] Dr. Taz: [00:43:45] Mm.
[00:43:45] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So I think it's very important to look at your diet, to know [00:43:50] that you're eating in a nourishing way, you're minimizing processed foods.[00:43:55]
[00:43:55] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I don't get into the diet wars.
[00:43:56] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:43:57] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So, you know, I'm not, I'm not on the [00:44:00] side of the vegans. Right. I'm not on the side of the carnivores. Right. I'm not on any one side. [00:44:05] I personally am plant-based because that's what works for me, that's what makes [00:44:10] me feel good, and that's what nourishes me, but I'm not judging anyone else, [00:44:15] right?
[00:44:15] Dr. Jenn Simmons: But-
[00:44:15] Dr. Taz: Has there, has there been anything linked directly from a food [00:44:20] standpoint to increase in these inflammatory proteins or [00:44:25] increases in breast cancer? Absolutely. We've seen some recent stuff around alcohol. Yeah. We've seen some stuff around sugar. So alcohol [00:44:30] is
[00:44:30] Dr. Jenn Simmons: a big one.
[00:44:31] Dr. Taz: Okay.
[00:44:31] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Alcohol is a big one. Um, and you [00:44:35] mentioned sugar.
[00:44:35] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Mm-hmm. So I will say that at this last A4M- [00:44:40] Yeah ... the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine, the focus of this [00:44:45] talk, the focus of this conference was metabolic disease. [00:44:50] Right. And my talk was about metabolic disease and breast cancer, because the [00:44:55] truth is that most breast cancer is a result of long-standing [00:45:00] metabolic dysfunction.
[00:45:01] Dr. Taz: Mm. So many things are tying right back to metabolic disease-
[00:45:03] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Absolutely, without question ...
[00:45:04] Dr. Taz: and [00:45:05] higher blood sugar levels, right? Yes. When we talk about Alzheimer's, we talk about autoimmune disease, we talk about- Blood [00:45:10] sugar
[00:45:10] Dr. Jenn Simmons: levels ... PCOS, endometriosis Triglycerides All of
[00:45:13] Dr. Taz: it.
[00:45:13] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right? Yeah. Like, this [00:45:15] all is tying in.
[00:45:17] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And quite frankly, [00:45:20] if we screened for metabolic disease with the same interest [00:45:25] and vigor that we screen for breast cancer, we would all be in a very [00:45:30] different place, because that is prevention. Mm-hmm. Because the metabolic [00:45:35] dysfunction presents decades before the breast cancer diagnosis. [00:45:40] We should be screening for metabolic disease like it's our [00:45:45] job.
[00:45:45] Dr. Taz: And what would you screen? 'Cause there are many people that are skinny fat. They're not necessarily overweight. [00:45:50] Yes,
[00:45:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I know.
[00:45:50] Dr. Taz: They're just high blood sugar. Mm-hmm. High lipids. Yeah. Like, [00:45:55] what are the things?
[00:45:56] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So what I'm always looking for- Right ... and this is part of [00:46:00] every evaluation that I ever do with any patient-
[00:46:03] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm
[00:46:03] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I'm looking at fasting [00:46:05] glucose, although I'll argue that that is a late finding. Mm-hmm. When you start to bump your glucose, [00:46:10] the horse is out of the barn.
[00:46:11] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:46:12] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I'm looking at fasting insulin.
[00:46:14] Dr. Taz: Yep.
[00:46:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:46:15] I'm looking at A1C, but fasting insulin is a much more sensitive marker than fasting [00:46:20] glucose because your pancreas can compensate-
[00:46:23] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm
[00:46:23] Dr. Jenn Simmons: for a while [00:46:25] before your, before your glucose starts to be abnormal. So I'm looking at [00:46:30] hemoglobin A1C, which is a three-month average- Right ... of your, of your- Blood
[00:46:34] Dr. Taz: sugar ... blood sugar. [00:46:35] What's your goal with that usually?
[00:46:36] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Under five.
[00:46:37] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:46:38] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I'm picky, though.
[00:46:39] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:46:39] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I, [00:46:40] I run a tight ship.
[00:46:41] Dr. Taz: Yeah, I w- No, that's exactly what I recommend as well.
[00:46:43] Dr. Taz: Trying to get under five, but [00:46:45] so many people are at 5.6.
[00:46:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I know.
[00:46:47] Dr. Taz: Which is, quote-unquote, "normal."
[00:46:49] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I
[00:46:49] Dr. Taz: know. You know? [00:46:50] So.
[00:46:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah, so our normal includes 95% [00:46:55] of our population. I'm not looking to be normal. Right. I am exceptional. I [00:47:00]
[00:47:00] Dr. Taz: love that.
[00:47:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And I expect everyone in my ecosystem to be the [00:47:05] exception.
[00:47:05] Dr. Taz: The exception. Yeah, I love it.
[00:47:07] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Um, so I'm looking at that. I'm [00:47:10] looking at triglycerides, um, 'cause that is- Right ... how your liver is handling the [00:47:15] sugar. I'm looking at HDL, and specifically, I'm looking at a [00:47:20] triglyceride to HDL ratio, and they should look like one another, right? Mm-hmm. Like, [00:47:25] it should be pretty close to 1.1. If you're above [00:47:30] 1.5, you're not in good shape.
[00:47:32] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And then I am looking at [00:47:35] blood pressure.
[00:47:36] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:47:36] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I'm looking at waist circumference. I'm looking at a waist to hip [00:47:40] ratio. Because in women, we should have a, a [00:47:45] waist to hip ratio that is .8.
[00:47:47] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:47:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: We really should. Now, if you're a [00:47:50] very muscular woman and you're on the straighter side, [00:47:55] your ratio might not be there.
[00:47:57] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:47:57] Dr. Jenn Simmons: But most women should have [00:48:00] a waist to hip ratio that looks like .8. .
[00:48:03] Dr. Taz: 8.
[00:48:04] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah. [00:48:05] So I, I'm looking at these things, and they're very easy to measure.
[00:48:08] Dr. Taz: Right. These things are- These are routine. [00:48:10] These should be routine- Yes ... from 21 on, honestly. Yeah. Or even i- in our [00:48:15] teenagers. Like, we should be screening for metabolic disease from the get-go.
[00:48:19] Dr. Taz: Yes. [00:48:20] Because it's really an epidemic, but then it looks different on everybody. For some [00:48:25] people it's PCOS, for some people it's autoimmune disease, for somebody [00:48:30] else it's breast cancer. So I think this is something that everybody can [00:48:35] do. This is not, you know, out of our reach, difficult, high maintenance [00:48:40] stuff.
[00:48:40] Dr. Taz: This is very much within everybody's reach. It's not rocket
[00:48:42] Dr. Jenn Simmons: science,
[00:48:42] Dr. Taz: right? But let's talk, let's, let's not leave the [00:48:45] alcohol, because I still get this question today. You know, where, [00:48:50] where do you land in the alcohol conversation when it comes to breast health?
[00:48:54] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Okay. [00:48:55] Don't shoot the messenger, okay?
[00:48:56] Dr. Taz: I'm probably on the same page as you, but go
[00:48:58] Dr. Jenn Simmons: ahead.
[00:48:59] Dr. Taz: All right.
[00:48:59] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:49:00] So according to, I'm gonna blame the Am- American Cancer Society. I love it. Okay? I love it. So according to the [00:49:05] American Cancer Society, there is no safe amount of alcohol for women. [00:49:10] Okay? Nice. Now listen, women and men are not [00:49:15] equal, and I hate to say it, because I am a very high performing woman.
[00:49:18] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:49:18] Dr. Jenn Simmons: But we are not equal. [00:49:20]
[00:49:20] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:49:20] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Men actually- I don't
[00:49:21] Dr. Taz: think we wanna be ...
[00:49:22] Dr. Jenn Simmons: men actually can drink alcohol.
[00:49:24] Dr. Taz: They [00:49:25] can?
[00:49:25] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Mm-hmm.
[00:49:25] Dr. Taz: You don't think we're seeing the same inflammation and the same insulin resistance and- So
[00:49:29] Dr. Jenn Simmons: they [00:49:30] should not be doing it excessively either.
[00:49:32] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:49:33] Dr. Jenn Simmons: But women [00:49:35] are not able to metabolize everything they need to metabolize if they also have [00:49:40] alcohol in the mix.
[00:49:41] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:49:41] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So, uh, one ounce of alcohol is [00:49:45] going to take your liver eight hours to get through.
[00:49:48] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:49:48] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Okay? We just [00:49:50] have one washing machine. If you have two loads of laundry every [00:49:55] day, and then suddenly you're putting in a third but you can only get [00:50:00] through two, you're just, it's just gonna pile up and pile up and pile up.
[00:50:04] Dr. Jenn Simmons: That's what's [00:50:05] happening in women-
[00:50:06] Dr. Taz: Mm ...
[00:50:06] Dr. Jenn Simmons: who add alcohol into the mix. [00:50:10] Because we have more hormones to metabolize than they do, because [00:50:15] we just simply don't have the capacity. We don't have the capacity [00:50:20] to get through alcohol plus everything else. [00:50:25] And we also expose ourself to much more toxins- Right ... many more toxins than men do.[00:50:30]
[00:50:30] Dr. Jenn Simmons: You know, men are not putting on their face and doing their hair and putting [00:50:35] products- Lotioning up ... all over their bodies. Constantly, yeah. They're just not doing it.
[00:50:38] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:50:38] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So they're exposed to [00:50:40] less, and they have more capacity.
[00:50:42] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:50:43] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So [00:50:45] I'm not saying you're never gonna have another champagne cocktail again, okay?
[00:50:49] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:50:50] Your birthday, your anniversary, okay.
[00:50:52] Dr. Taz: Special occasions.
[00:50:53] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Special occasions. [00:50:55] But you should not have more than one drink at a time. You should not drink on [00:51:00] consecutive days. Can you take a vacation from your life? [00:51:05] Absolutely. But a vacation from your life is a, like a week.
[00:51:08] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:51:08] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right?
[00:51:09] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:51:09] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Don't let a [00:51:10] week turn into a month, which turns into six months, which turns into a year.[00:51:15]
[00:51:15] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And alcohol is not a stress management tool. [00:51:20] Okay?
[00:51:21] Dr. Taz: Which so many women use-
[00:51:22] Dr. Jenn Simmons: That's exactly right ...
[00:51:23] Dr. Taz: men and women use today. Yeah.
[00:51:24] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And I [00:51:25] think that that is a large part of the epidemic that we're seeing. [00:51:30] "Oh, I just have a glass of wine at dinner."
[00:51:31] Dr. Taz: Yeah. So many women cook with wine. So many [00:51:35] women wind down with wine.
[00:51:36] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes.
[00:51:37] Dr. Taz: So many of us celebrate-
[00:51:38] Dr. Jenn Simmons: That- ...
[00:51:38] Dr. Taz: with
[00:51:39] Dr. Jenn Simmons: alcohol [00:51:40] in some form or fashion ... I mean, it's how, it's how so many people cap their day.
[00:51:43] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:51:44] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So many [00:51:45] people. I actually had a, a patient fire me over this very issue. Are you serious? Mm-hmm. Oh,
[00:51:49] Dr. Taz: [00:51:50] wow. People are sensitive
[00:51:51] Dr. Jenn Simmons: about this stuff. Yeah. Yeah. She's a nutritionist.
[00:51:52] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah. And I think it's [00:51:55] very hard to tell people who that's their job, their [00:52:00] job, right? Yeah. And she was a cap your [00:52:05] day with alcohol person. Mm-hmm. She had a glass of ... That was how she [00:52:10] capped her day.
[00:52:11] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[00:52:11] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right? At the end of the day, she would have a glass of wine while she was cooking [00:52:15] dinner. It was her thing.
[00:52:15] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:52:17] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And she got a breast cancer diagnosis, and [00:52:20] you can imagine, I mean, she's a nutritionist, her diet's beautiful.
[00:52:23] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:52:24] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It's beautiful.
[00:52:24] Dr. Taz: [00:52:25] Right.
[00:52:26] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And I said to her, "You have to stop drinking." She said, "What are you talking about?" [00:52:30] I said, "You, at least in this acute phase, like, you, you can't [00:52:35] drink, you have breast cancer."
[00:52:36] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:52:37] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I think a lot of women don't even know [00:52:40] the connection that alcohol has to breast cancer. It is the [00:52:45] number one modifiable risk factor for breast cancer. Wow. Because it's a [00:52:50] lot easier to stop drinking alcohol than it is to lose weight.
[00:52:54] Dr. Taz: Right. [00:52:55]
[00:52:55] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Because it's age, obesity, alcohol.
[00:52:58] Dr. Taz: Those are the three big ones.
[00:52:59] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:53:00] Mm-hmm. And by age- Those are the three modifiable risk factors ... clarify age.
[00:53:03] Dr. Taz: What's
[00:53:03] Dr. Jenn Simmons: going on there? Yeah, so [00:53:05] the beautiful privilege of living longer [00:53:10] is, is beautiful in almost every way except that every year [00:53:15] longer you live, your risk of breast cancer goes up. And why is
[00:53:17] Dr. Taz: that?
[00:53:18] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Because we're all [00:53:20] born with an ability, a finite ability, [00:53:25] to tolerate toxins.
[00:53:26] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So you're handed, at birth, you're handed your bucket, [00:53:30] and you start filling it, and start filling it, and start filling it, and [00:53:35] everyone will get to the point where their ability to clear the [00:53:40] toxins is not as good as the toxins that they have. As it needs to be. Right. [00:53:45] So you're, it, breast cancer [00:53:50] Is a reflection of toxic overload.
[00:53:53] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It's, you've, you've lost the battle Okay, we [00:53:55] gotta say
[00:53:55] Dr. Taz: that again.
[00:53:55] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah.
[00:53:55] Dr. Taz: Breast cancer is a reflection of toxic overload.
[00:53:58] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes. Breast [00:54:00] cancer is a metabolic disease and [00:54:05] Sugar and all- Alcohol and- That's, that's- ... inflammation ... that's a toxin, right? Right.
[00:54:07] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:54:08] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And it's an [00:54:10] environmental disease. So what happens in the breast, breast cancer is a [00:54:15] normal response to an abnormal environment.
[00:54:17] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:54:18] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And the breast, [00:54:20] the reason that the breast is the canary in the coal mine, the reason that the breast is such a [00:54:25] reflection of how toxic your environment is, is because the [00:54:30] place that we store our toxins is in our fat cells.
[00:54:32] Dr. Taz: Right.
[00:54:33] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And when you look at the makeup of [00:54:35] the breast as an organ, it is glandular [00:54:40] tissue, that's the milk producing tissue, it's fat, and even if you have [00:54:45] dense breasts, you still have a lot of fat in your breast.
[00:54:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right. Right? It's still, the majority of your [00:54:50] breast is still gonna be fat. Connective tissue all in a skin [00:54:55] envelope. So if you have the abundance [00:55:00] of the cells in the breast be fat cells, and fat cells are where we store our [00:55:05] toxins, then your glandular cells, your, your milk producing [00:55:10] cells, they are literally sitting next door to the garbage dump, [00:55:15] right?
[00:55:15] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It's like living next door to a hoarder. Mm-hmm. Eventually, it's gonna spill over [00:55:20] onto your lawn. And when that happens, it damages the [00:55:25] cells, damages the DNA. Those cells feel threatened, and they go into survival mode. [00:55:30]
[00:55:30] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[00:55:30] Dr. Jenn Simmons: That's all breast cancer is. This is a transformation [00:55:35] from the chemistry of joy to the chemistry of stress.
[00:55:39] Dr. Taz: And [00:55:40] so I know so many more patients are coming in with, like, the triple negative diagnosis of breast cancer- Mm-hmm ... [00:55:45] which I think is purely, like, environmental, toxic
[00:55:48] Dr. Jenn Simmons: load. It is. Of course it is.
[00:55:49] Dr. Taz: Is that [00:55:50] different, though, from an ER, PR positive or hormone receptor positive cancer? Yeah. Is there any [00:55:55] differentiation between those?
[00:55:56] Dr. Jenn Simmons: That's exactly what it is. It's a lack of differentiation. Mm. [00:56:00] It is a, "Okay, we just gotta turn these cells out. I am in serious [00:56:05] survival mode. Like, this environment is really toxic, and I just need to [00:56:10] survive, survive, survive. Don't care if I do it correctly." Because remember, [00:56:15] estrogen receptors, progesterone receptors, these are normal elements on a [00:56:20] breast cell.
[00:56:21] Dr. Jenn Simmons: A breast cell normally puts these receptors [00:56:25] up so that they can interact with the estrogen and progesterone, which are [00:56:30] normal physiologic hormones in our body. That's how the cell knows what to do. Mm. That's how [00:56:35] the cell gets its signaling. When we lose that, when that, when that [00:56:40] cell has become so transformed, so mutated, that we don't have that [00:56:45] system anymore, like, this is a really rogue cell.
[00:56:49] Dr. Taz: Mm. [00:56:50]
[00:56:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: That's what that means.
[00:56:51] Dr. Taz: Gotcha.
[00:56:52] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So when someone comes to me and says, "Well, I have a [00:56:55] hormone positive breast cancer," I'm like, "Great. You're not that abnormal."
[00:56:59] Dr. Taz: Well, what does [00:57:00] it mean for women? You know, I get this question all the time: I've been diagnosed with breast cancer, [00:57:05] I've recovered from breast cancer, I have a family history of breast cancer.
[00:57:09] Dr. Taz: Can I or [00:57:10] can I not do HRT?
[00:57:11] Dr. Jenn Simmons: S- this is my love. This is the thing that [00:57:15] I love the most, that I love to talk about the most. I'm gonna share my story with you. Okay. [00:57:20] So I come from this breast cancer family. I finished my [00:57:25] training in 2003. I'm trained by a brilliant, brilliant man, probably [00:57:30] one of the first people to become a dedicated breast surgeon.
[00:57:33] Dr. Jenn Simmons: He, he runs an [00:57:35] international think tank. He is just considered the grandfather of breast [00:57:40] surgery. His name is Dr. Gordon Schwartz. And in 2003, Gordon [00:57:45] Schwartz taught me three things. He taught me that hormones cause breast cancer.
[00:57:49] Dr. Taz: [00:57:50] Mm-hmm.
[00:57:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: That the only women that should take hormones are those that [00:57:55] absolutely, positively cannot live without it, and in said [00:58:00] women, you should give them the smallest amount for the shortest amount of time.[00:58:05]
[00:58:05] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And that's how I went through most of my career, believing that, because why would he [00:58:10] lie to me? That's
[00:58:10] Dr. Taz: still out there. That's still
[00:58:10] Dr. Jenn Simmons: out there. Yeah. And that was, that was the findings- Right ... of the Women's Health Initiative, right?
[00:58:14] Dr. Taz: [00:58:15] Right, right. So-
[00:58:16] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Who am I to question it?
[00:58:19] Dr. Taz: [00:58:20] So
[00:58:22] Dr. Jenn Simmons: A couple years go by, decades, couple [00:58:25] decades go by, and I do not go quietly into my good night.
[00:58:29] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And [00:58:30] I literally have every single imaginable symptom [00:58:35] of menopause- Mm-hmm ... that you could think of. Mm-hmm. If you can think of it, I had it. [00:58:40] Walked into a room What the hell did I come in here for? Brain fog- Right? ... memory [00:58:45] loss- Like- ... bone
[00:58:45] Dr. Taz: loss, rashes, hair loss.
[00:58:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes.
[00:58:47] Dr. Taz: We could go on forever.
[00:58:48] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Dizziness.
[00:58:49] Dr. Taz: Vertigo.
[00:58:49] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [00:58:50] Yeah, vertigo.
[00:58:51] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I mean, literally everything. I am the bitch in my [00:58:55] house. Yeah. I'm screaming at my children. I'm screaming at my husband. My relationship is suffering. [00:59:00] I'm, like, practically in tears all the time- Yeah ... trying to hold it together, trying to run a [00:59:05] practice. I mean, I am a disaster. It's a
[00:59:07] Dr. Taz: lot, yeah.
[00:59:08] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And I'm at a [00:59:10] conference, and one of my friends comes up to me and she's like, "You know, Jen, [00:59:15] not for nothing, but you're not yourself."
[00:59:17] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And I just break down and I tell her all [00:59:20] about what's going on. She's like, "Well, why aren't you on hormones?" I said, "What are you talking about? I'm from [00:59:25] this breast cancer family. I can't go on hormones." She's like, "What? [00:59:30] That's not true. Have you read Estrogen Matters?"
[00:59:32] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[00:59:34] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So I read [00:59:35] Estrogen Matters and it changed my life.
[00:59:38] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And now I think, [00:59:40] "Well, maybe I should be doing some research on this. [00:59:45] Look at myself. Look at this data." As it turns out, the [00:59:50] data is not only there, but it's compelling for hormones. [00:59:55] So when we look at the population of women who take [01:00:00] hormone replacement-
[01:00:01] Dr. Taz: Right ...
[01:00:02] Dr. Jenn Simmons: and let's face it, if [01:00:05] you don't take hormone replacement, you get breast cancer.
[01:00:08] Dr. Jenn Simmons: If you do take hormone replacement, [01:00:10] you get breast cancer, right? Everyone gets breast cancer. But if you [01:00:15] take hormone replacement and you get breast cancer, you have better outcomes.
[01:00:19] Dr. Taz: [01:00:20] Really?
[01:00:20] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes. Why? Across the board, better survival. [01:00:25] Because, now they may be self-selecting-
[01:00:28] Dr. Taz: Right ...
[01:00:28] Dr. Jenn Simmons: because the people that [01:00:30] take hormones tend to-
[01:00:31] Dr. Taz: Be a little bit more proactive-
[01:00:32] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes
[01:00:33] Dr. Jenn Simmons: right, about their health, right. And they, and they take care of [01:00:35] other things too. Right. Right? Right. So they may be self-selecting, but [01:00:40] in my opinion, okay, true, true, and unrelated.
[01:00:43] Dr. Taz: Right.
[01:00:43] Dr. Jenn Simmons: If they're having better [01:00:45] outcomes, we need to ask those questions why.
[01:00:47] Dr. Taz: Right.
[01:00:47] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right? And it turns out that [01:00:50] they also have less heart disease.
[01:00:51] Dr. Jenn Simmons: They also have less dementia. They have less [01:00:55] Alzheimer's. They have less fractures.
[01:00:57] Dr. Taz: Wow.
[01:00:57] Dr. Jenn Simmons: These are the major things that women are dying [01:01:00] of. They're dying of heart disease. They're dying of Alzheimer's. They're dying of bone disease. Mm. [01:01:05] Right? So we need to be l- looking at this and saying, [01:01:10] "Well, are we really doing the right thing scaring women away from hormones?"
[01:01:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [01:01:15] Because they're not getting more breast cancer, and they're not dying of breast cancer. [01:01:20]
[01:01:20] Dr. Taz: So take your hormones.
[01:01:21] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So take your hormones.
[01:01:22] Dr. Taz: Even past-
[01:01:23] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Now let's talk [01:01:25] about the women who have had-
[01:01:26] Dr. Taz: Right ...
[01:01:26] Dr. Jenn Simmons: breast cancer, and specifically women who have had [01:01:30] hormone positive breast cancer because- I can't think of a single reason if [01:01:35] you had triple negative breast cancer that you should be denied hormones.
[01:01:39] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [01:01:40] Mm-hmm. Like, the argument just isn't there. Mm-hmm. Their tumor was neither caused by hormones- Right ... [01:01:45] nor is it propagated by hormones. Right. So th- that should be an easy thing, even though [01:01:50] most, most providers, once they hear breast cancer, the answer is no, [01:01:55] because most providers don't know the difference between I don't know and no.
[01:01:58] Dr. Taz: Right.
[01:01:58] Dr. Jenn Simmons: So they just say no. So
[01:01:59] Dr. Taz: they just [01:02:00] say no, yeah.
[01:02:00] Dr. Jenn Simmons: But let's look at the data. 20 studies of women [01:02:05] who have had breast cancer, hormone positive breast cancer, and then [01:02:10] went on to take hormone replacement afterwards. No increase in [01:02:15] recurrence, no increase in metastatic disease, and [01:02:20] increase in long-term survival.
[01:02:21] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[01:02:21] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Because what's happening to these women [01:02:25] afterwards? This is the forgotten woman. This is the woman that I talk [01:02:30] to all day long. This is the woman who has been treated for breast [01:02:35] cancer, and she's told that she should be grateful to be alive.
[01:02:37] Dr. Taz: Right.
[01:02:38] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And she is grateful, [01:02:40] but it is very hard to feel grateful when you have brain fog, [01:02:45] when you can't sleep, when you're anxious, when you're scared, when you're having [01:02:50] palpitations.
[01:02:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right. When your joints ache, your bones ache. And you're not
[01:02:53] Dr. Taz: you.
[01:02:53] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Everything aches. Yeah. [01:02:55] You've gained weight. Your clothes don't fit. You feel and look deformed. [01:03:00] You have painful sex. Sex is unwanted. You [01:03:05] have no libido. You have yeast infections, bladder infections, urinary tract [01:03:10] infections. When all of this is happening, it is very hard to feel [01:03:15] grateful.
[01:03:16] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And yet we know from these studies that [01:03:20] hormone replacement is very safe when done correctly [01:03:25] and responsibly in the breast cancer population.
[01:03:29] Dr. Taz: I mean, I [01:03:30] think again, this is yet another message of hope and encouragement that women can be [01:03:35] vital post a diagnosis.
[01:03:37] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Absolutely.
[01:03:38] Dr. Taz: And there are options. [01:03:40] What would you tell the women listening to us today who's, who's, who listens and is gonna walk [01:03:45] away and be told something totally different when they go into their exam [01:03:50] rooms or talk in their communities or things like that?
[01:03:52] Dr. Taz: What is your hope, you [01:03:55] know, that someone can take away from today and then turn around and make it actionable for them?
[01:03:59] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah. [01:04:00] I, I didn't get sick for no reason.
[01:04:02] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[01:04:02] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I know exactly why [01:04:05] I got sick. I got sick because I was put here to change the [01:04:10] way that we talk about breast cancer, to change the conversation around breast cancer.
[01:04:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: [01:04:15] I was put here to forever change how we diagnose, how we treat, and [01:04:20] how we screen for breast cancer. The way that we have been doing it, the [01:04:25] way that we have been approaching it is wrong, and we need to get back [01:04:30] to that woman sitting in front of us, because she deserves the right thing. [01:04:35] She deserves our care.
[01:04:37] Dr. Jenn Simmons: She deserves hope. You [01:04:40] have so much more power than you think. Do not give that power [01:04:45] away to someone who does not have your best interest at heart. This is all [01:04:50] about building health, and health does not happen in a doctor's [01:04:55] office. It doesn't happen in a chemotherapy suite, in a radiation suite. Health [01:05:00] happens at home with the things that you do every day, and only [01:05:05] you can make you healthy.
[01:05:06] Dr. Taz: Wow. That's powerful, and I hope everybody [01:05:10] listening or watching can spread this message, right?
[01:05:13] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Absolutely.
[01:05:14] Dr. Taz: How long [01:05:15] will it d- in your estimation, is it gonna take for this standard of care- [01:05:20] to become the standard of care.
[01:05:23] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Things are changing, [01:05:25] right? I mean, the old guard is still the old guard.
[01:05:27] Dr. Taz: Right.
[01:05:27] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And I think [01:05:30] unless you have a real reason to change, most people are s- they're [01:05:35] just walking through their lives.
[01:05:36] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right.
[01:05:37] Dr. Taz: Right?
[01:05:37] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Right. But the, the, the [01:05:40] young up-and-comers, they're from a different place. Yeah. They have a different perspective. I've noticed [01:05:45] that too,
[01:05:45] Dr. Taz: yep.
[01:05:45] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And they're curious, and I think that that's the main thing for [01:05:50] all of us, is that we all have to maintain curiosity.
[01:05:54] Dr. Taz: Yeah.
[01:05:54] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Because [01:05:55] as the information changes, and it's changing every day, as [01:06:00] the information changes, our minds have to change, and we have to [01:06:05] be constantly open.
[01:06:06] Dr. Jenn Simmons: You
[01:06:07] Dr. Taz: have to be adaptive and flexible. Yes. This is crazy- Yes ... that you only walk between two [01:06:10] lines-
[01:06:10] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes ...
[01:06:11] Dr. Taz: when it comes to something as complex of our, as our bodies.
[01:06:13] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And think about, you [01:06:15] know, this is what we talk about in the wellness space- Right ... in the longevity space- Right ... is that [01:06:20] you have to maintain flexibility.
[01:06:22] Dr. Jenn Simmons: That's what keeps you young. That's what con- [01:06:25] continues to connect your mind and your body and your spirit.
[01:06:29] Dr. Taz: Mm.
[01:06:29] Dr. Jenn Simmons: It's that [01:06:30] flexibility, and we need to expand that across the board to how we [01:06:35] treat people- Love it ... to how we think about things, to how we build our health. [01:06:40]
[01:06:40] Dr. Taz: Well, that is the mission of WHOLE+, so I could talk to you [01:06:45] probably for three more hours.
[01:06:46] Dr. Taz: However, I don't wanna leave you without asking you this [01:06:50] question. What makes you whole?
[01:06:54] Dr. Jenn Simmons: You know, [01:06:55] in, the older I get, the more that I value [01:07:00] my family.
[01:07:01] Dr. Taz: Mm-hmm.
[01:07:02] Dr. Jenn Simmons: My, my... I'm gonna cry. Like, [01:07:05] my beautiful husband, my children, my grandchildren, my religion. [01:07:10] It's everything to me.
[01:07:11] Dr. Taz: Yeah. And-
[01:07:12] Dr. Jenn Simmons: You're
[01:07:12] Dr. Taz: gonna
[01:07:12] Dr. Jenn Simmons: make me
[01:07:13] Dr. Taz: cry.
[01:07:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yeah.
[01:07:14] Dr. Jenn Simmons: I [01:07:15] mean, it's just the, the-
[01:07:16] Dr. Taz: Ah ...
[01:07:17] Dr. Jenn Simmons: the more you walk on this earth, the [01:07:20] smaller your world ends up getting. Yeah. Because what all you want in [01:07:25] the end is that beautiful relationship with the people that you love the most.
[01:07:29] Dr. Taz: [01:07:30] You know, we have so many guests on this show, and everyone comes back to family. I think family is [01:07:35] the heart and the home and our sustenance and our fuel.
[01:07:38] Dr. Taz: It's my mission to [01:07:40] heal families. It's my mission to get these messages out, to bring flexibility and creativity [01:07:45] back to medicine. I could not be more honored to have you here today, so thank [01:07:50] you so much.
[01:07:50] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Thank you for having me.
[01:07:51] Dr. Taz: And where can people find you?
[01:07:53] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes, absolutely. So [01:07:55] The Smart Woman's Guide to Breast Cancer, you can get this at Amazon.
[01:07:58] Dr. Jenn Simmons: If you are looking for [01:08:00] help on your breast cancer journey, realhealthmd.com. [01:08:05] I also have a podcast. It's called Keeping Abreast with Dr. Jen. We put out a new episode every week. You [01:08:10] are going to see- Amazing ... Dr. Taz on there very soon. And then if you are [01:08:15] looking for that scan that I was talking about, Perfection Imaging, and Perfection is [01:08:20] spelled with Q-T in the middle.
[01:08:22] Dr. Jenn Simmons: And you can find me on all the [01:08:25] social channels at Dr. Jenn Simmons, and my Jenn has two [01:08:30]
[01:08:30] Dr. Taz: Ns. Amazing. Thank you again, and thank you everyone else for listening and watching. [01:08:35] I'm hoping this message spreads out there and we really educate women on breast health [01:08:40] and breast care, and that it's actually a message of hope, not fear.
[01:08:43] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Yes,
[01:08:43] Dr. Taz: yes. Thank you.
[01:08:44] Dr. Jenn Simmons: Absolutely. [01:08:45] Thank you. Thank you so much for listening and watching today's episode
[01:08:49] Dr. Taz: of Whole [01:08:50] Plus. Be sure to share this episode with your friends and family. And if you haven't already, please take a moment to [01:08:55] subscribe to this podcast on YouTube or click the follow button on Apple, Spotify, or [01:09:00] wherever it is that you get your podcasts.
[01:09:01] Dr. Taz: And don't forget to follow me on all social channels, [01:09:05] @drtazmd. Until next time, stay healthy and stay whole.