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Circling The Drain is a show about the current state of the music and radio businesses as well as culture in general!
Hosted by John E. Bozeman and Jay Harper along with Jim McCarthy as Co-Host/Executive Producer.
John has had a storied career in music and talk radio, most notably as the Executive Producer for the late and legendary Phil Valentine.
Jay also has has a long career in radio as Announcer, Play-by-Play, Voice and On-Camera Actor. He was also an Artist Rep for MCA records.
Jim McCarthy ALSO has had a tremendous career in radio since 1996 and has since brought his consulting/producing skillset to the podcast world.
Circling the Drain is produced by ItsYourShow.co
Unknown: I feel like I want to
do it as long as people ask. And
every time somebody asks me a
big station or a big show or
whatever it is, I feel like it's
an honor to do it. And I take
that very seriously. And so it's
I mean, I remember this America
at night, which I'm doing now.
And I remember being a kid and
listening to like a Larry King,
or because he used to host that
show, or like one of my all time
favorite broadcasters, Jim
Bohannon, who hosted that show.
I remember being a board
operator KFI and running that
show at night in the 90s with
Larry King, who would have
thought, fast forward, you know,
30 years, whatever it was,
whatever it is, that I'd be
hosting that show as a as a fill
in person. At some point they're
going to stop asking, and I'll
be pissed off that they're not
asking anymore. Yeah, as long as
they're asking, I'm going to do
it.
Welcome to a podcast about music
and entertainment before it all
goes down the disposal. This is
circling the drain.
It's circling the drain. And you
know me. John E Bozeman, some
people know me as Johnny B, and
we have the three J's.
Jay Harper, Hello, Johnny. Be
hello back with you
folks, and it's good to have you
back. Thank you, man and over
here, of course, Brother Jim,
hey buddy, how you doing? So we
see my eyes. I'm excited today,
guys, because, as we are taping
this today marks his 12th
anniversary at Super talk 99
seven WTN. He's the host of
Nashville's Morning News. Not
only that, but he worked with Dr
Laura. He is been on numerous
talk show stations around the
country. Talk Show is
and still continues to add
more appearance. Yeah, he does.
He just keeps adding more to his
In fact, if you listen to, if
you listen to Red Eye radio on
Super talk, you'll catch this
guy as well. He's my good
friend. He's my former workmate
and my former boss, a guy I
think highly of. Dan mandus,
welcome to circling
the drain, baby guys, how we
doing good?
We're doing it. The question is,
how you're doing you're actually
upright and and semi awake?
That's right,
that's right. I do work a lot.
I've got a lot of call letters
on my resume because I can't
keep a job. You know, we all, we
all know what radio is like. You
know, you work all over the
place, and you do what you can
to make ends meet. And, yeah,
I've been all over the place. I
don't know, Jay, how many, how
many places you've been? I know
Johnny's been around
the block a time or two to a
few, but, you know, not as many
as some. But yeah,
been to a few. So what he's
saying, Dan, not as many as you
I'm
a radio whore. That's what,
that's what we say.
You're a radio person through in
the room. You're not a person in
radio.
You know what? The thing is,
though, like, I had not that I
don't have fun in Nashville, at
WTN, the most fun I ever had in
radio was at Whoa, whoa, in Fort
Wayne. Like Fort Wayne, Indiana.
I spent three years there, and I
absolutely it was my favorite
time in radio. And again, not
that I don't love being in
Nashville, but, you know,
there's something about a
smaller market radio station
where you just, you can make a
really big difference there. And
I felt like that's what I
enjoyed it
in, whoa, whoa. Well, I mean,
that's still a medium sized
market. I mean, you know, Johnny
and I, and I maybe Jim too,
perhaps. I mean, when we started
in radio, it was kind of really
small market. You know, I worked
for, yeah, yeah. For me, it was
port sulfur, Louisiana. But
yeah. I mean, you know, 1000
watt day timer and all. But, I
mean, you never well, maybe you
have to tell us. I mean, did you
really work? Where did you get
your start? I mean, did you work
the small AM, 1000 watt day
timer stuff?
So I started in Los Angeles,
market
number two special. Got to here,
actually got to hear traffic
reports. Oh yes, yeah, cuz he
had actually given me this CD
player, and he left inside of it
an old air check of him doing,
yeah, and that's why I got to
hear it.
It wasn't good. It was good.
It was better than what you
portrayed
it to be. Well, so I've got a
high voice anyway. Imagine me at
like 21 so, but you asked me how
I got my start. I in growing up
in Los Angeles. That's where I
just I gravitated towards. So I
started working as a producer,
board operator at KFI and some
other stations as well in the
Los Angeles area. And then I
started working as a traffic
reporter. And reporter for one
of these, you know, Metro
traffic, air watch, kind of
places, you know, and and I just
made my way through the ranks in
LA and then I started working
with Dr Laura at KFI at night.
And she and I worked together
for a lot of years at night. She
moved to midday. I was going to
school, and then when she went
syndicated, I joined her on
syndication, and we did that for
a lot of years. And you know,
that was in the days where, you
know, and not taking anything
away from anybody. But you know,
these days, people get signed on
to a syndicated show, and the
network is already built. But in
the days where Dr Laura was
building her network, way back
when you had to sign, you know,
one station at a time, two
station at a time, groups at a
time, you weren't just handed,
hey, here's a bunch of I Heart
stations. Here's a bunch of
cumulus stations, it was like,
you've got to build your
network. Yeah, and so that was a
lot of fun, and we had a great
time. And boy, it just, it seems
like forever ago. And then in
the midst of all of that, at
some point, I just realized that
I wanted to do something besides
just producing a talk show. I
felt like I could be a program
director, and I did that for a
lot of years, and I down that
path. I also started hosting
shows, and I hope started
hosting shows in Fort Wayne. I
didn't have a fill in, and so I
was like, crap. I actually was
kvor in Colorado Springs before
Fort Wayne, and I was like, I
was like, I don't have anybody
to fill in in these small
markets like Colorado Springs,
so I had to start doing fill in
work. Fill in work at k, v, O,
R, as a talk show host, whoa,
whoa. And then when I got to
Denver, I started hosting there
on K how and Koa, and then they
were silly enough to hire me in
Nashville and so, so I basically
got my start behind the scenes,
and then I became a program
director, and concurrently, I
started to host as well. When
did you
start altogether? What year
in radio? Yeah,
1987 Wow. Good Old Days. Yeah.
They were, I was, I was 19 years
old, 1819, years old, and I had
a fascination for radio. I had a
fascination behind the scenes,
like when a record was playing,
yeah, I wanted to know what the
DJ was doing in the booth. You
know what? I mean, what happens
behind the scenes in radio?
Yeah, what's going on is,
well, and the thing is, I mean,
you, God knows you're laughing
because I know what you're
thinking about. We know what we
did. You know? Well, I never did
the cocaine or anything, but i
There were plenty of times I had
the girls in the studio.
Yes, you ever have one doing
ballet and the nude?
What? Well, not something. I can
say.
She wasn't doing ballet, but the
rest of it told that
to a cool story. What's No, I
have
not ballet in Was it something
you'd like to share?
Yes, I think I shared it
already, didn't I? Yeah, and
that's back in the days we could
smoke while we were in the Yeah,
we were either smoking
cigarettes or other.
I just want to know if you had
like, a naked girl in the
studio, why did you waste time
with ballet?
Well, that, well, I was having
to do the weather forecast.
Got it. I'm thinking that's
Johnny's idea of foreplay.
That's weird.
That was after play. Dan. That
was a weather forecast and turn
on another album. In fact, it
was interesting because we, we
featured albums at like 3am
Yeah, and we play a whole album.
Well, when she was in there,
they got a bonus that night. So
did I.
But they got, I think I played
three albums that night.
I The old days of radio,
yeah, today, you know, you know,
back when, you know, back when
we were younger, and we could go
three albums, yes, yes, Jake is
a joke. How do you say, got a
courtesy joke from Jay? Anyway,
whatever. So, yeah, I mean, I've
really been a one format guy
like you worked in in music
radio, of course, and and you've
done a lot of sports play by
music radio, just about every
music format. Yeah, I
became a talk show host and
worked in talk radio because I
was a terrible disc jockey,
like, I lasted for three months
introducing, like Paul Abdul and
that kind of stuff. And I just
was not very good.
Well, what got you in it? I
mean, what was, what was the,
the main influence of you
getting into talk radio like,
was it you listen to it?
I My dad used to drive me around
Los Angeles listening to KBC and
790 K. ABC. And I remember being
in the back of the car, smoke
filled car, I'm in the back
seat, and my mom and my dad are
smoking, and they're listening
to, you know, talk radio. And it
was just boring as all get out.
And I was like, you know, very
young, obviously, but really, I
tried the DJ route. You know, I
was in college, and I was a
college DJ, but that's where the
work was like, for a guy like me
who didn't have a good voice, I
was able to get behind the
scenes work, and so I would
produce, and I would run the
board, and I would be a call
screener and all that kind of
stuff. And then KFI in Los
Angeles called me, and I started
doing all that behind the scenes
stuff. And I was, like, hooked.
And so I thought, you know, talk
radio is not really as boring as
I thought it was when I was
listening to it as a, you know,
1213, 1415, year old with my dad
in the front seat, and I'm in
the back seat. And I started
really enjoying it. And I
started to get a flavor, a taste
of what, how crazy it was behind
the scenes at a radio station.
And, you know, KFI, for people
that don't know, is one of the
premier talk radio stations in
the country. And I cut my teeth
there. That's where I learned
how to call screen, do
production, run the board, and
all those things. And, you know,
then I started to, started doing
a traffic reporter, and my voice
was like, way up here. It wasn't
that bad. And so it was bad, but
thank you for the for the
courtesy compliment. But
somehow, somehow I didn't get
fired. And it's funny, because
years later, as a program
director, I actually had more
empathy for people who didn't
have a natural voice, because
that was me, yeah. So David G
Hall, one of the Top program
directors in talk radio. He was
my PD at KFI, and I learned a
lot from him, and I still do to
this day, wow.
So yeah, well, I mean, there is
something about the spontaneity,
and there's an adrenaline rush
to the to the live spontaneity
of not just live radio in
general, but especially talk
radio, yeah, and the callers,
and you just never know where
things are going to go.
I i When I was in on in mid
days. I'm in the morning now, so
I can't take as many calls as
I'd like, but the spontaneity is
something that I really do
enjoy. And interacting, one of
the best times I've ever had in
talk radio was working with this
guy right over here for the
three years we did mornings
together and in Ken Weaver. And
the spontaneity, the fun. And,
you know, unfortunately, when
you are flying without a net,
you sometimes say things, oh,
God, Did I really say that? And
yeah, you did, because there is
no net. You're not voice
tracking. You're not, you know,
trying to read a liner. It is
just, what do you say is out
there, and, you know, say for
the seven or nine second delay
whatever it is, it's out there,
and you can't take it back. And
so I enjoy that. I hate that
part of radio too, because if
you say something where it's
like, Did I really say that
there will be times when I'm
like, out on the street
somewhere, and somebody will
come up and start talking to me
about something that I said on
the show, and it might be
something maybe a little ill
advised, which sometimes
happens. And I'm like, Did I
really say that? Or is he like,
as Uncle Phil used to say, Van
Gogh. Listener is like, damn it,
I did say it. I'll go back and
I'll listen to the tape. And
yeah, I said that. And so the
flying without a net, and the
spontaneity is a lot of fun.
Unfortunately, a lot of careers
can be ruined by that
spontaneity as well. But I mean,
it's the only for me. I only
know how to do it one way. And
you know, talking about the
callers, I'm doing this fill in
on a show called America at
night. It's like the old Larry
King Show. Jim Bohannon, Larry
King American night. It's a
cumulus station, and so I'm
doing fill in on that now these
days. And they do open lines. So
in, you know, 30 years of
hosting talk shows, I had never
done open lines before in my
life,
ever where there's no screener,
no screen just take the call,
put them on hold,
and On you go. And I was like,
they told me that, that they did
open lines. And I'm like, oh
God. Like, I don't need the
money this bad. And people call
up and they just, it's like,
they throw you a knuckle ball, a
curve ball, a splitter, and you
just have to roll with it. And
so the first time that I did it,
and it's on national radio. I
mean, this is in big markets all
across the country, and you
never know what's coming. And so
the first couple of times I did
it, I was dreading it, because,
you know, I like to know what
I'm talking about. And if
somebody calls up and they've
got something, they. Want to
talk about, which is kind of
random. I don't like to try to
BS my way through. I like to
know something about the topic.
But, I mean, they give you a
little cursory line, this is
what they're going to talk
about, and you've got to roll
with it. And so I've done it
about four or five times now. I
absolutely love doing open lines
now, because you don't know what
you're going to get, and it's
actually a lot of fun, and you
end up getting and I hate to say
because I'm, if you listen to me
on the radio, you know I'm not a
yeller. You know what I mean?
No, last couple of times, man,
I've, like, really mixed it up
with people, and it's like, Oh
my God. It's like an out of body
experience when
you're getting rid of 30 years
of frustration.
I've done more yelling on
America at night than I've done
in the previous 30 years of
hosting
even previous marriages.
Let's not get carried away. A
lot of yelling in that first one
moving right along.
Have you ever been fired from a
job in the radio?
Fired? No. I've been cut back.
My position was eliminated.
Does that count guys?
Yeah, does that count as being
fired? Because I see fired, is
fired for
cause, kind of thing just
downsized?
Yeah, I think, I think it's just
it is firing
that you did anything wrong.
It's just
you never really were in radio.
If you've never been fired,
which calls my career into
question, you've never
been fired. Never been fired.
Yeah. How is that possible?
17 years? Man, really?
Man, give it time. Give it time.
There's always a first out,
though. I don't know. Are you
even in radio? I don't
know, podcasting. I mean, it's
like the mafia from Godfather
three. Once you think you're
out, they pull you back in.
Yeah, different
form I was, I was unemployed the
most I, and I'm not bragging,
the most that I've been
unemployed is three weeks. So
when I was in Colorado Springs,
I was in Colorado Springs for a
year, they eliminated my
position, and I was out of work
for three weeks before I got the
job in Fort Wayne, Indiana. Fort
Wayne went to Denver, Denver to
here.
So did you? Did you have a
family at the time that you drug
all over the place? Or were you
a single man? I mean, what was
it like from a life perspective?
It sucked. Jay, yeah,
remember that ex wife who
we're talking about earlier?
Thanks for bringing up that
memory. Yeah, no, they actually.
So if I'm gonna do the entire
journey, I did Los Angeles, I
was I'm not. I can't do it in
order, because I just can't. So
all the cities, LA, you know,
grew up there. I went to New
York, where I was an ops manager
for Clear Channel at the time
premier radio, doing like
traffic, reporting, management,
that kind of thing. That's where
I met Glenn Beck, by the way,
worked with Glenn Beck after 911
love Glenn Beck, but LA, New
York, back to LA, Dallas,
Richmond, Virginia, Fort Wayne.
Let's see here, I think I went,
did I go back to Dallas anyway?
Fort Wayne, Denver. No Colorado
Springs, Denver, and then
Nashville, so, and again, in no
particular order, I've been
around, yeah, and I did, I did
have my, my kids have, yeah,
they're obviously adults now.
And my daughter will tell you
that it made them be able to
handle change pretty well as
adults and so and they got to
see, you know, the the country,
and they get, they've been at
amusement parks all over the
country, and but on trade.
What's that on trade,
no, not on trade, no, not on
trade. I'm still paying off all
of those. It's like a college
tuition. Yes, exactly so. But
yeah, I mean, it is tough on the
family and and that's why you
know, when you are a broadcaster
of a certain age, and no offense
to young broadcasters, but when
you're broadcaster of a certain
age and you meet people who want
to just automatically start
hosting shows, it's like, well,
there's some dues that you got
to pay first.
Yeah, wait a little bit there.
Bucky, yeah. But you know what I
mean these days, it's totally
different, like when we came
into radio you. I mean, we all
just shared our stories of where
we came up from. But you know,
these days, you got some
stations that will give you a
shot if you're a podcaster, and
now you are, can you do an
actual radio show? And I don't
know if there's a lot of
podcasters that even want to do
radio shows. I mean, podcasters,
they I mean, they've got their
deal. I mean, I do a podcast
with Chris hand and Matt Murphy
every week, and then give the
name. Yeah, it's the name of our
podcast. Is mostly peaceful with
Dan and Chris and Matt, and
you're gonna have to remind me
what the hell the name was. I'm
like, What the hell isn't it?
Mostly peaceful, but it
is, but it but it's a different
animal. Like, when you're doing
podcasts, you don't have to stop
down for commercial breaks and
anything like that. And I'm
still such a big believer in
radio. Like I podcasting is
great. I love doing this stuff.
I love radio. Oh yeah, yeah.
Well, I think we're all with
you. In fact, of course, I miss
it. That's one reason I was
telling you earlier that. That's
one reason I quit going to
church with Joan and and Chris
and because I I missed it. I
thought this is just too hard.
This is like hanging out with,
you know, with, with an ex wife.
Or did you? Did you
left you? Did you think that you
would miss it?
Yeah, I knew I would
really, yeah,
I've often thought like, when?
Because I am like, I am 58 and I
am counting down the days till I
retire. Yeah, and my wife would
be the first one to tell you,
shut the hell up. You ain't
retire. You know what? I mean,
yeah, but I mean, I just told
you the roster of stations and
shows that I do fill in for.
And, you know, I do a lot, and
so you do what? What would I do
if I just decided, okay, you
know what, I'm going to retire,
provided I can financially, but
I'm going to retire. Would I
actually miss it? And I think if
I retired right now, it probably
would. Oh, definitely. But how
am I going to feel this? 60
260-364-6566, you know what I
and that's the other question.
Is with radio, okay, well, then
how long am I going to last at
WTN, and then, when they find a
shit candy, what am I going to
do? Am I going to stay in
Nashville and and just, you
know, hope that you want to fill
in work, or I would find it very
difficult to move out of
Nashville, like Tennessee is my
home. I'm born and raised in
California. I have no interest
in going going back to
California.
Okay, California is coming to
you.
Yeah, it really is. Boy, it sure
is. In fact, I've got a bunch of
new Californians living near me
now. Yeah, well, one's getting
on my nerves, because he won't
keep his dogs up.
But, well, you tell him that in
Tennessee, we have rules against
that. Yes, we do, but yeah, as
far as retiring goes, and what I
would, I miss it, I think I
would if, if the end came now,
but I think when I'm in my 60s,
if I'm ready to hang it up, you
know, I'm going to be more than
ready to I think because you
know, it's not just as you know,
it's not just about hosting.
It's about waking up at
midnight. It's about because I'm
my show starts at five, so it's
about waking up at midnight,
doing all of that show prep,
because I do my show my way, and
I'm not. Other people do their
show their way, but I don't like
to sit. It's hard to tell now,
but I don't like to sit and draw
it on right? Yeah. I like to
have audio. I like to make it
pop. And now we're playing video
on the stream, yeah? So I like
to have a video component, so I
get up so early to do all of
that show prep, so that I like,
for me, my theory of doing a
talk show is it's a
presentation. Like, it's not
just opening up the microphone
and just, you know, talking, I
like to have a presentation. I
like to have audio or video, and
I like to bounce between the two
and be able to just be able to
have a good time. And that takes
a lot of prep work. And so,
yeah, I do. And people are like,
you get up, you get up at what
time? I get up at five, at
midnight, and I'm on the air at
five, I've got to drive into the
station. That takes 45 minutes,
and so, and when we started
doing video, that added a whole
new component to the prep.
So, yeah, I mean, it's worth it.
I was going to ask you about
that. I mean, a lot of radio
folks have been intimidated by
this whole video component to
the show,
guilty as charged. Man. I mean,
it sounds
like though, that you have come
to welcome it and really make it
an integral part of your
presentation.
You have to, I think that Chris
hand actually kind of dragged me
kicking and screaming. He was
first to do the video, and then,
and then I started doing it, and
Matt Murphy is now doing it as
well. But I think it adds a lot
to it, and I've embraced it to
the point where I'm not just
grabbing videos off of, you
know, Twitter and just playing
them on the stream, I'm actually
downloading the videos and
editing them for for time and
for content and that kind of
thing too, because it does, and
I had to teach myself video
editing, right? Which is not
easy. I know,
you know, I am Premiere Pro, or
Da Vinci,
or I use, well, I use two. I use
chat GPT for. Yeah, if I do, if
I'm doing, like, a Instagram
kind of a thing, I use chat GPT.
If I'm doing show prep, I use, I
use Premiere Pro and and I had
to again, I had
to teach myself, yeah, there's
Thank goodness for YouTube. You
know, you can look, yes, you can
look up a lot of that stuff.
That's what I do.
But, but I think, I think you
have to do that these days if
you are streaming and you know,
I don't want to be like the old
guy that can't, that can't
change. You know what I mean?
Like, I want to, I want to, I
want to. I want to be the guy
that embraces it. And so I I
wanted to show that I could do
it. And I may have been
challenged a little bit by Chris
hand and and I Okay, you son of
a bitch, you know,
challenge accepted.
And so and so. Now I took it a
step further, and I sometimes
add transitions. And I'm just,
I'm actually having fun with the
video now, and so because it
does add such a such a component
to it, and if you're a radio
person and you're streaming, you
have to do it, in my opinion. Oh
yeah. I think it's really
important, especially these
days. Yeah. And you know what
kudos to, to cumulus for making
the making the investment in the
equipment, the equipment that
they have invested in. I
hopefully we get some new stuff.
They finally did
well, because I remember how
that super talk TV was when I
was there.
They they have made some
modifications. Let's say that,
but we're hoping for, at some
point in 2026 we're hoping for
more, for more modifications and
some upgrades. But, you know, I
think in radio, I think there's
the hard part is, are you
selling out the radio audience
by showing video to the people
on the stream? Yeah, that was
going to be one of my questions,
since that seems to be a lot of
where radio is headed. Is this
streaming visual component? You
know, I'm sitting in my car and
everybody's yucking it up over a
video, and I'm like, What the
hell are they talking about?
Yep, you have to, but that and
you're right. And so because
I've heard that, and it pisses
me off, right? It's like, Guys,
I'm listening in the car. Yeah.
So you the secret to it, and
I've got to get better at it.
But the secret is all right for
you folks watching on on Super
talk TV, this is what this is.
But then immediately switch to
the radio, people, which is
where our bread and butter still
is. Sure. It's like, folks,
here's an old dude in lipstick
talking about Hitler, and then
you play the audio, and you, and
you, you do the old thing about,
you know, word pictures and mind
pictures and all that. Well,
that's what was so great
about radio, to me, was theater
of the mind. Theater of the
mind. That's why I've told a lot
of people. And maybe this is not
true, because we could have
adapted and probably done it.
But when Phil did things like
dancing in the booth, I thought
with this new, you know, with
camera, you guys, yeah, that
would look that would be weird,
because not dancing in a booth,
pole in there feel wrong. But
that was what was so magic about
that was theater. And that's
what I loved about that. That's
what got me into radio. Was
theater of
the mind. Well, think about,
think about what I said when I
when I was talking about my my
interest in radio, right? I was
interested in what was happening
behind the scenes. Well, yeah.
Well, now that that Mystique is
gone, you know what I'm talking
about.
The curtains been pulled back,
and it's been It's open now.
Well, it's like my sister, she
watches a show that in Tulsa,
that, of course, broadcasts, you
know, through the computer. And
she said, I can tell they must
not make very much money because
their clothing is terrible.
Yeah, there was that too. There
was that too. I was like, You
know what? And you probably
remember this. I'm like, I'm not
changing the way that I dress.
I'm a slob, and that's the way.
It took about a month before my
wife was like, Honey, we're
getting you some new clothes.
And so we went on Murphy.
He said, you know, Dan, because
he's always wearing
gray, yes, I have like, one
color in my palette, and it's
like, black or gray. You know,
that's me. So yeah, and it my
wife said, You know what? We
need to get you some clothes.
And because here's the thing
people started watching, that
was the thing, yeah, and, and
they're the P ones to the radio
station, and so I didn't think
that anybody would actually
watch a radio show. It's like,
why? Who the why? Yeah, I didn't
think so either, and so, but it,
it was pretty quick that. We
realized that people were
watching, and now the people
that watch it, I mean, they are
really passionate, and they and
like, if, if, for whatever
reason the stream goes down, we
hear, yeah, we
hear, what was the impetus to
have to have the video that they
the station? See the value in
creating shorts for YouTube and
Instagram things of that nature,
was that the reasoning,
you know, what? To be honest
with you, I think that they just
wanted to be seen as trying to
embrace the future of YouTube.
Well, I mean, by the time they
embrace the future
15 years behind, yeah, that's
exactly right. So he said that I
didn't just remember this face,
but I think that they recognized
that there is a tremendous
opportunity. And so, I mean, I'm
gonna give you an example. If
I'm at home, I'm not looking for
the radio, I'm looking for my
phone to put on YouTube. Yeah,
to watch, you know, Matt or
Chris or whatever, because it's
just easier. It's not that it's
hard to bring up YouTube and
just pull it up for me to find a
radio in my house, which I want
to know how many radios does do
each of you have in your house?
But to find a radio, and, you
know, try to get reception. And
it's so, so much easier just to
just put it on YouTube.
Yeah, yeah, you know, I will,
I'll use, you know, the Google
gadgets or Alexa or something,
to bring in the station. Yeah,
you know, play 99 seven WTN,
and, bam, it's there.
So, how many radios do you have
in here? Jim, in this office, in
this house, none. Johnny, I've
got about five.
Jay, I've got like, three or
four, okay, in the home. But
admittedly, I rarely listen
through them. Yeah, see, I still
do. I I'm pulling up as I say,
Alexa or or I'll pull up the
YouTube. It's so readily
accessible on the phone.
You know what I mean? Yeah,
that's what I mean. I don't. I
have one radio in my home, and
it doesn't work. So the one,
here's what's crazy. W 10
100,000 watts. FM, and I can't,
I can't get WTN in my home, wow,
which is crazy.
That is, yeah, we live,
I live in Mount Juliet by the
lake.
That makes really Yeah, because
there are parts of town where
you
cannot hear Yeah. I mean,
clearly, where? Well, the weird,
the weird thing is, like, I can
pull into my driveway in my car,
and I can hear it, yeah, but
then if I actually try to, like,
get it on the radio and do
whatever, then it's like, fuzzy.
And so I just, I it's easier.
But here's the
other thing, pattern shape. It
ever done that the engineers do
that? They pattern the signals.
Yeah? They Well, yeah, when I
stopped being the program
director, they pattern the
signal away from my house? I
don't want to listen to the
station anymore, man. So, you
know, I wanted to
ask you, because it's really
been burning my mind, but I
wanted to get your feel of what,
what did it feel like, and what
were your first impressions when
you came to Nashville and you
were going to program WTN, what
was your first
well, so when I, when I show up
in Nashville, I wasn't the PD.
They made me the PD after a
couple of months, right? But
when I first came to Nashville,
the first guy that I heard, the
first two guys that I heard were
you and Phil, Oh, wow. And I
remember my first thought was,
holy crap, these guys are good.
And I I wasn't sure that I was
going to measure up, to be
perfectly honest with you,
because you guys were so good.
And I'm listening to this, and I
called my wife and I said, I
don't know if we've actually
made a mistake. I don't know how
long I'm going to survive here
in today's 12 years since I
started. But listening to all
the hosts, I sort of found kind
of where I fit in. And bottom
line was that when I came to
Nashville, and I was a full time
host, and I was on the station,
you know, the guys that had been
on the station, you know, Phil
had been there for, I don't
know, 30 years, whatever it had
been the other guys that were on
the station had both been there
for like, 10, 1215, years,
whatever it was. And, you know,
I'm the new guy, you know. And
it
was very intimidating, to be
honest, it was very
intimidating.
Well, see, you intimidated me
because once you became program
director, because we had not, we
interfaced some, but not a lot,
yeah, but I still remember going
down the hall one day and Dan,
Dan, you know, when he walks
down the hall, he kind of had
his hands in his pockets and
looking down, and he looks up
and he says, Who are you again?
And I said, Johnny
B he's called the radio.
Salutation. Oh, okay. And he
walks on, and I. I told Phil
later that day, I said, I think
this new PD is going to fire me,
Johnny, that's called team
building. Who are you again?
One time, because I was, I was
in the studio, and I was talking
to someone, and of course, using
very adult language, and Dan
walks by and as serious as a
heart attack goes, Hey, there
could be a live mic. Don't you?
Think about that. And I thought
he's got a point.
He really got it
out for me. Hey, man, I was just
kidding you, but it was but you
were right though, yeah, I
started watching my
language around intimidation is
also part of team building,
lead by fear. We always say, I,
you know, when I was a program
director when, so when they made
me? PD, it was kind of an offer
that I couldn't refuse. So here
I am now as the new guy, as the
program director, and I'm
supposed to really, I'm supposed
to be Phil Valentine's boss.
Yeah, right. So that would be
intimidating, but it was
intimidating for me, to be
honest. But the see, the way
that I when I was a program
director, when I was a boss, the
way that I, I did it was, I'm
not an you would attest I'm not
an a hole. Both of you would not
an a hole, not
at all, not in the least.
Yeah, I'm not one of those guys.
That has to be, right? I'm just,
I try to be one of the guys. And
so I That's my style. And so
when, when they actually, when I
stopped being the PD, it was one
of the best days of my life,
because even though I didn't
like the fact that, you know, I
was essentially demoted. But
what they ultimately did was
they took one guy who was in
charge of the sports station,
and he was going to be over the
entire talk product, because the
10 years that I was in charge
of, WTN, we had great ratings.
We had great revenue. My show
was doing good in the mid days,
and tn did really well breaking
news, the whole thing, yeah, so
it wasn't a performance issue of
mine. It was just, you know, I
was doing more and more on air.
I was doing more and more behind
the scenes. The video stuff was
starting to go and it just it.
The more they wanted to move in
that digital direction, the more
it seemed like a good time for
all of us to say, You know what,
I'm going to focus on, the
morning show. And that was also
remember I'd, I'd been on the
morning show for a couple of
years at that point, and it was
killing me, buying the boss and
the morning show and getting
calls from people at, you know,
three or four o'clock in the
afternoon, trying to hire
producers and all that stuff so
but when the 10 years that I was
the PD, TN, you know, I was very
proud of it,
and, well, you should be. I
don't mean to interrupt you, but
to me, and I'd been there for a
while, and as far as program
directors go, I will, and I will
say this to my dying day, I felt
like you were the best that we
ever had because you understood
talk radio. You loved it. You
loved the talent you you really
made us blossom. So yeah, those
years for me were probably some
of the best that I'll ever
remember.
I think one of the most
important parts of being a good
program director for talk radio
is being a fan of talk radio and
being a fan of talent. You know
what I mean? Like I syndicated
shows are great. I love it, but
I love local talent, and I love
listening to local talk shows
and in local markets. And the
thing that I love about Tn is
that, you know, five, a, 7p,
we've got local, local talent,
and so just, I think there's
some places where they don't
even have a program director for
the talk station. And I think
that it's important to have
people that understand the
product. And I also think that
now that I've been a program
director and a full time host, I
think that it is important for a
program director of a talk
station to at least have some
experience in hosting, and
that's not something that I said
before I was a host, I was just
a guy who was a program director
of a talk station, but I didn't
really do any hosting. I think
it's important to have that
perspective. So one of the
reasons why I actually started
hosting in the first place,
filling in on the smaller market
stations, was so that I would
have that experience of knowing
what it was like to host,
because I'd never done it
before, and so, you know, I'd
done a lot of news and all that
kind of stuff. And it turned out
I was halfway decent at it. And
then I I started hosting on
bigger stations. And now here I
am so but I think that there are
people in in our industry who
they don't really, they program
talk, but. But they also program
like a music station, and it's
just sort of like, Ah, it's a
talk station over there,
whatever. Don't use the seven
dirty words and you're gonna be
fine. Well, that's true, no
matter what. I'm not criticizing
other people. I'm just saying
that that having somebody who is
solely focused on a talk product
like we have at WTN, where our
boss, he watches over the zone,
and WTN, he's got a firm grasp
of both formats. And I think
that's
that's great. And I got to hand
it to you too, because you were
dealt a very tough hand when
Phil passed away, because that
was, I mean, you're talking
about a major, a major player on
the radio station. In fact, when
people thought of WTN, they
thought of Phil Valentine.
Yeah, I the hard part of that
was losing a friend. Yes, for
years, I was on noon to three,
Phil was on three to seven. And
even though he was syndicated,
he would come in and do a cross
with me at the local level. He
didn't have to do that, but he
did it, you know, and and I, I
recognized that, and I was so
appreciative of that. I I
considered Phil such a great
friend, and so I was, and we
were all we're dealing with the
loss of a great friend, and at
the same time, major part of the
radio station. And also there
was, you know, people that were
attacking talk radio and calling
us anti vaxxers and all that
kind of stuff too. And so that
also added an element of stress
to the to the whole thing as
well. And so, yeah, that that
was probably the most
challenging time that I've ever
had as a as a broadcaster,
period, yeah? And, you know, I
still look back on that time,
and I start to, you know, break
out in a rash, and it was just
so awful. It was
awful, yeah? And I hated it. I
was the one that had to call you
and break the news to you. I
remember both of us were just
like crying, like I
arrived at the station that day
when we had to announce that I
was both I was I was crying,
yeah, and
I think that for
for the people that listen to
Phil,
they'll never forget him, nor
should they. No, I never will.
I'll never forget his
friendship. I'll never forget
his professionalism. And, I
mean, it's been, gosh, how many
years has been now, 345, years.
I think it's five years and,
and, I mean, I to this day,
he's, he's, I can hear his, his
voice in my head.
So I dream about him all the
time last night, yeah, he's
always in my dreams.
Well, he was, you guys worked
together for what? 30 years, 20
years, 30 years, 30 years, yeah.
I mean, yeah, that's, I mean,
obviously, clearly, a long time.
Yes, it is. And you know, that
is, you know, that's something
where, when you have such a
close association with somebody,
and then you lose them so
tragically, then it can be, it
can be, what's her right word?
It stressful isn't the right
word. It's, it's something that,
it's something that stays with
you forever. Well, yeah, in
fact, I was telling these guys
that when I lost the gig at tn,
you know, I was upset about
losing my job. But I think the
biggest part of my depression I
was going through was I was
finally dealing with the grief
of losing Phil because I didn't
get to really grieve properly.
No, you didn't because, I mean,
it went from, you know, his, the
loss of him, and then, okay,
what are we going to do now, as
far as the afternoon show, there
was that, and the staff
shuffling, you know, I went from
midday to doing afternoons for
like, five months, and then I
had to switch over to mornings
and so, but I'm glad I
got to work with you during
those afternoons, because that's
what kind of made me decide that
wherever you moved, I want to
move because you reminded me a
lot of Phil as far As there was
no big ego and you, you just
wanted to get the job done. Do
it right, and that's it, man,
entertain people. And I thought
this is a guy I want to be with.
And so when you said you're
going to move to mornings, I
said, I definitely want to go
with you. And then when I found
out it'd be Ken Weaver, you and
me, I thought, this is going to
be a party.
You? You, if you ever asked me,
like, what are you most proud of
in in your time on the air, I
would say, you know, that time
where, and this is some, some
inside radio stuff. But you
know, we have, like, eight
number one books and for two,
for about two, two and a half
years, four. We were top two or
top three in prime demos. I
mean, that that show was with
the three of us. Oh, it was fun,
really, really good. And so much
fun. Oh, it was fun.
And I felt such a I felt that
with Phil too, but I felt that
with you guys. I felt a real
camaraderie, and I just loved
hanging out with you guys. Yeah.
I mean, that's what, especially
if we had to do a, you know,
during the winter, when we had
to stay, you know, stay
at the hotel, yeah, yeah,
that was fun. We go out and eat.
Oh, absolutely, yeah,
absolutely. And, you know, for
for me, you know, I remember
those days as waking up in the
morning and actually looking
forward to coming in. And that's
not to say that. I don't I mean,
I love working with my current
crew.
Oh, Jones, great. Jones, great.
And Sam is wonderful. He's
really good. I think part of
radio is having to make
adjustments. And you know when,
when you left? TN, I mean,
everybody knows how I felt about
that, and I made it known that I
was not happy in any way, shape
or form. And you know what,
though, to their credit, they
just, they chose not to listen
to me the day after, when they
said, you can say your piece.
We're just going to go away and
don't say anything stupid. And
I'm mad right there. What would
you have said right there?
Right there, Jim,
you know what? After, after they
shit canned me. I'll come back
and,
well, I have to give them credit
too, because when they let me
go, they let you have a final
day.
They did never, have never
happened. That's true and and I
have to hand that to them,
because they said, if you'd like
to say goodbye, and I said,
Well, I would, because I was
there so long, if I hadn't been
there a long time. And just use
it as a typical radio you know,
yeah, where'd he
go, yeah, yeah, that's exactly
right,
but I have to hand it to him.
They were nice about doing and I
gotta hand it to the PD he was.
He came up to me afterward and
shook my head, so you're a class
act. And yeah,
so they trusted you with a final
day, yeah, the reason why they
trusted you with the final day
and being allowed to say goodbye
was because you are a class act.
Oh, well, thank you. And so they
they trusted you, and they
trusted me, and we didn't do
anything stupid. Now we didn't
know as I was that close, but,
well, I was too, yeah, but you
know, I think you're you and Jay
or in Jim are doing, you know,
great, great job here on the
podcast.
And, well, we love each other.
And, yeah, man, I think I make
Jim, AJ, a little uncomfortable
when he has to sit
by me. Well, you are touching
him. We all know how I feel by
touching I'm like, notice that
dynamic. I'm like,
my wife would go out, she would
go, I'm going to hug Dan, Dan,
you know, and I could see him.
I remember we used to joke about
how I'm a stiff hugger, yes. And
there's, of course, the double
entendre there, but wish, you
know, it's like, yeah, how
people would come up to me
remote so they'd like, hug me,
and I'd like, stiff enough,
yeah? And it's like, you know,
it's like, so then people I work
with, like Matt Murphy, who's
been on here, and, you know,
Matt would, you know, hey, go up
and hug Mantis, even Joan, even
Joan is like, Well, Dan, you're
a terrible hugger. And so how
can it be a bad hugger? And she
said, I don't know, but
you're it. I remember when we
all went to dinner one time is
Ken, Dan and myself and our
wives, and we all decided we
were going to hug Dan goodbye,
yeah? And we did, yeah, he was
covered up.
Okay. Oh, time to go. Sadly. The
only one that didn't hug me was
my wife.
There's that too, she took the
picture.
Yeah. Well, Dan, you know, you
mentioned your wife, Amy, whom
I've not met personally, but you
know, she's your first looks
like, she looks like a, you
know, just a wonderful,
wonderful partner and supporter
and so forth. I mean, all of
these different roles that
you're taking on. I mean, is she
fully supportive of that, or
does she say, Dan, you, you,
you've got too much, you, you
need to slow. I mean, where does
she fall in that, in that whole
dynamic? I'm just kind of
curious, because i know i Johnny
and I Jim, all of us have these,
you know, wonderful, supportive
lives. And I'm just kind of
curious. Does she embrace that,
or does she tell you, Dan,
you're just chewing up, chewing
off too much, man.
So that tells you all you need
to know. One of the things that
she. Like she does is, you know,
I'll be like, I'm really tired,
I'm dragging today or whatever.
And you know, she'll say, she'll
say, Well, you volunteered for
it. You know what? I mean, like,
there's no, oh, I'm sorry,
honey, let me, let me rub your
feet, or let me draw you a nice
bath. No, it's like you're the
dumb ass that volunteered for
this. Why are you doing three
shows in a row, you idiot? I
mean, that's what she does.
She's actually very supportive.
She is She she knows that I have
a goal, and she also knows that
she enjoys the vacations that we
get to go on and that we need to
redo the bathroom or whatever.
And so she understands that I
want to retire, that we have
things we need to do to the
house, and that for a lot of
years, and I do okay now. But
you know, for a lot of years, I
didn't make squat in radio. I
can relate. Yeah, we can, yeah,
everybody here can relate. And
so, you know, I did pretty well.
I actually nice house and a nice
studio. So clearly,
I don't know why, but I'm
picturing Amy looking for, you
know, radio stations, right? Oh,
yeah. Well, Dan, here's another
one you
could do. Station in Kansas
City. We need to remodel the
kitchen. Here's another station.
Go over to Paris. Here's another
station.
You can Dan, we can actually
clone you now, bots, oh yeah,
with the AI sound better than
me, it would be nice.
No, but she so she gets, she
gets persnickety, like she does.
I love you, honey, if you're
watching, but she is very
supportive. You know, one of
these days they're gonna stop
asking, yeah, and so I feel like
I want to do it as long as
people ask. And every time
somebody asks me a big station
or a big show or whatever it is,
I feel like it's an honor to do
it, and I take that very
seriously. And so it's, I mean,
I remember this America at
night, which I'm doing now, and
I remember being a kid and
listening to like a Larry King,
or because he used to host that
show, or, like one of my all
time favorite broadcasters, Jim
Bohannon, who hosted that show.
So I remember being a, you know,
board operator KFI, and running
that show at night in the 90s
with Larry King and so who would
have thought fast forward, you
know, 30 years, whatever it was,
whatever it is, that I'd be
hosting that show as a as a fill
in person, it's the same for Red
Eye radio and so, or the Eric
Erickson show. I mean, these
are, you know, as I said, at
some point they're gonna stop
asking, and I'll be pissed off
that they're not asking anymore.
Yeah, or so, I just feel like,
as long as they're asking, I'm
gonna do it, and I also I want
to retire, and I'm putting the
money away, and I there's stuff
I got to do to the house, and so
there's just a financial aspect
of it too, because, you know, a
wife's uh, Creativity never
stops. So no, let's do this.
Let's do that. Pretty handy,
nope, pretty mouthy.
Yeah, yeah, I've noticed a lot
of rain.
My wife is called in.
Yeah, anyway, but yeah, she is
supportive. Well, Dan, you know,
I mean, it's no secret you are a
conservative leaning talk show
host. Has that always been your
niche as a talk show host?
So when I was I grew up, people
know my story. I grew up and,
you know, high school, college,
I fancied myself, you know,
smarter than everybody else,
liberal. And then my dad was a
conservative, Reagan
conservative, you know. And
slowly but surely, I started
becoming more conservative. When
I started paying more taxes for
me, that'll absolutely do it.
And but when I started becoming
more and more of a talk show
host, and I started really, you
know, digging into issues more
than just as a producer would,
because as a producer, you don't
dig into the issues like if
you're the actual host. And so I
was more moderate when I was
like, sort of a fill in every
once in a while, kind of a kind
of a person. But the more I
hosted, and the more that I
started really preparing for
shows and digging into the
issues, the more conservative I
got, and then the more I started
to listen. Listening to people
like, you know, Phil Valentine,
or, I don't know who else I
would listen to before. WTN, I
don't even know, but, you know,
conservative Rush Limbaugh,
yeah, Glenn Beck, you know those
guys. Then that really, for me,
it sealed the deal. Like, you
know, who are my inspiration,
you know, growing up, it would
be, you know, Vince Scully, play
by play, guy for the Dodgers,
brilliant at storytelling. But
then it'd be like a rush
limbaugh or, you know, as I got
older, a Glenn Beck, you know,
those guys are just incredible,
incredible talk show hosts. And,
you know, Glenn still is and of
course, Rush was the absolute
master. Yes, he was, you know,
Larry King. When I was board
Oping at KFI, I'd listen to
Larry King, and I'd be like, how
does he know so much? Do you
know what I mean?
Yes, like, well, he was so great
at interviewing people. Yeah, he
would let them talk. Yeah,
because that's a lot of when I
listen to talk show hosts,
that's one criticism I have, is
let the guest talk.
Guilty as charged, man. Well,
yeah, you're
not as there's, there's some out
there that I just want to say,
you know, let the guests talk.
That's why you've got them
there. Larry King was the master
at that. He Yeah, he would just
ask
for this question. Well, this
America at night. It's like a
great show. They actually follow
the format of the old Larry King
show, so these days. So when I
do that show, I've got to do
like, four interviews a night,
and then the last hour is open
phones. And so doing a good
interview is harder than doing a
monolog. Yes, because you've got
to ask the right questions, and
you you have to be able to have
this self discipline to just sit
back and let the guy talk, let
the person talk. And that can be
difficult if you're used to just
yapping all the time, and you
just want to get, you know,
some, some hosts have the, you
know, the interview has to make
me look good. Well, I don't see
it like that. I see it as the
interview. It's you're they're
there for a reason, so tap into
that expertise. Yeah, and so
then I'm not saying I'm the
great shakes at interviews. I'm
a long question. Asker, you
remember, we used to joke about
that? It's like I started asking
a question, and then four
minutes later, you know, I
finally get to the point of the
question. So, but I'm working on
it.
Have you had the you mentioned
you have four interviews with
with that fill in gig, I mean,
so who are some of the guests
that you've had that have just
kind of knocked you out? Or, you
know, I'll tell you one that was
horrible. You want to hear
one that was horrible.
Sure, I interviewed a guy, and I
can't remember his name, but he
had, he was one of the guys that
was investigating the death of
Kurt Cobain, and I was, like,
his 75th interview for the day,
and so I asked him, like, one
question, and he just went on,
and he wasn't making any sense,
and he is just weaving in all of
these names and all of these
places and all of these things,
and I'm just like, I don't know
where to go. Like, I had, I had,
like, nine questions that I was
going to ask this dude, and he
never stopped talking. And so
finally I was able to slip in
there and ask another question,
and he kept going, and he wasn't
making any sense. I think he, I
don't think he was drunk, I
think he was tired, yeah, just
because he had done it was like
slap happy from so doing so many
interviews. Well, this,
this reminds me of a name Noel
monk. Oh, gosh.
Oh, my goodness gracious. No
monkey we, we try. I wish that
tape existed.
So I wish it did too, because,
man, that was the most bizarre
interview.
He definitely was drunk. And
it's like, in the middle
of the day, yeah, he was either
drunk or just burned out. Yeah,
one of the two, but both, yeah,
maybe both. It was bizarre,
because, you know, you'd ask him
a question, there'd be this long
pause waiting for him to talk.
And finally, the funny thing
about it, that interview too,
was, like, with Noel. I didn't,
I thought he was just like, old
and confused, yeah, and then
you're the one that brought up
that, you know, you after the
interview, and we hung up, you
said, let that be a lesson to
your kids. Don't do drugs. Was
he on drugs? And you're like,
Yeah, I think so. I it's right
over my head. I thought he was
just like, as I said, old and
confused.
It was really weird because I
asked him in the interview,
because Dan was nice, you know,
Dan said, if you'd like to be
involved, please do. And so I
asked him, I said, No. Now, when
did you first notice that Eddie
and Dave were starting to have.
Have problems. You know that
their egos were, there's a long
pause, man, there was never any
problem with those two guys. And
I'm thinking your book says,
poor guy, even, even a shallow
knowledge of Van Halen. Yeah,
you know that there are problems
with Dave and Eddie.
Well, all you got to do is go to
a show.
Well, yeah. And I think, I
think, I think Neil Noel, no,
no. I think no. Probably just
had a hard time remembering
because of all the drugs. I
think it's easier to say, oh,
there was no problems, rather
than saying, oh, there is this
one time, yeah, when Eddie did
this or Dave did this. Do you
know what's so interesting about
Van Halen? You might get mad at
me for saying this. I might I'm
finding out that Eddie was more
the a hole than Dave was. Yeah,
I'm starting
to hear that. I'm hearing that
about both Eddie and
they're just both hard to get
along with.
Alec. Alex is blowing off Sammy.
I know why. Why is that? I don't
know.
And he left him out of his book.
I was exactly yeah, the book to
go in. He kind of just dismisses
those, yeah. How could you
dismiss especially greatness of
Van Hagar,
well and well, and after, what
are you laughing at?
Jim? No, I liked both of them. I
was a huge fan. I liked
the I liked all, yeah, I even
liked Van Halen three. I didn't
like it as much, but I thought
it was not a bad album. I can
only
get to about two or three songs,
and I'm like,
I gotta turn up see I kind of
and I saw them live during that
time, and they were good. But
what killed me about Alex's book
was you went through so many
years where you just, you called
Dave, every name in the book,
yeah, and said it was a joke.
And you called Sammy this. We
said we used to have a a this,
this, this horrible tooth, and
we had a nice, shiny cap replace
it, yeah, talking about Sammy
Hagar. So how can you go from
that to
dismiss that year? Well, and how
can you dismiss music that
people love? Oh, yeah. I mean, I
I'm on the record of saying
probably one of my most
controversial opinions that I
think Sammy hagar's version of
Van Halen was better than David
Lee Roth's. But I don't know how
you how you dismiss music that
you helped create exactly. I
mean, you cannot like Sammy
Hagar. If you're Alex Van Halen,
you cannot like Sammy Hagar, but
still appreciate the time that
you spent
together and appreciate the
music you made. Yeah, that
you're you're exactly right so,
and you know, the Sammy sounds a
lot better than Dave does these
days, if we're gonna go down the
road of music, Oh, yeah. David
Lee Roth sounds terrible.
Well, Dave needs to either find
a new stick. Yeah, I've heard
him sing R and B. He can sing R
B. He's got the perfect range
for that. Yeah, he's trying to
sing too high now, and he can't
do it. He just cannot pull it
off. I'll tell
you what Wolfgang sounds good.
Yeah, he does. Wolfgang Van
Halen sounds right. Jay, what do
you think of Wolfgang Van Halen?
I just know him as Valerie
Bertinelli, son,
always, always have had the
crouch on the crush on Valerie.
Yeah, Valerie was very she had
that hair. Yes, she did. She was
a kid. She married a rock star,
and then
it's like, there's still a love
there. I mean, she's still kind
of enamored with him,
where she is with Eddie. Oh,
yeah. They were divorced. He had
a different he's Yeah, he had a
different wife, different wife.
She hardly gets mentioned. And
that
wife was so nice. I remember
when they had the 2004 to her,
and I had reached out to her,
not expecting a reply that I
wanted you know somebody from
the band on Phil's show, yeah,
and it was probably later that
day I get a very nice email
back, and then she will try to
work with me. And of course, it
never materialized, but at least
she responded, yeah, very nice.
Yeah, very nice person. You
don't, you don't
see that often these days,
especially
in rock and roll. No. Jamie,
yeah. Jamie, yeah. Jane
luzewski, I think
was her last name. Luzewski van
halens, a lot better of last
name. Yeah, it is. Jamie Van
Halen.
Sounds really good. Rush is
back together, so we're gonna
talk about music. Appear dies,
and now they've got Annika
Niles. Annika Niles as the
drummer. Have you seen the Have
you seen the the videos?
I'm a drummer, and he was a huge
influence in my playing. And
dare I say, she's gonna, really,
she's gonna do a hell of a job.
Do you think so? Cuz, oh yeah,
you know she didn't even know if
you Getty Lee says she didn't
even really know her music,
which is great, because she can
fill in the blanks, if you will.
She's not intimidated by the
seat, you know. She can apply
her own flavor to it, and she's
going to and she's an amazing
player. She's almost going to
probably play the parts better
than he could. He was a very
stiff player.
How dare, you know, what? Wow,
that's. First right here on this
show, not a yeller, he's a
thrower
that actually came dangerously
close to you, that could
have been have been really ugly.
I started picking fights. You
know, I've
got more listeners, if
you want, but you don't think
she will. Okay, she's a great
player. She's a great player. I
don't like. Here's what I don't
understand about drumming. What
I don't understand about
drumming is that there's
different ways to play a song,
like you can play red Barchetta,
apparently, a completely
different way from Neil Pierre.
I don't understand that.
So maybe feel it's, it's,
you know, you could put a little
bit of a, you know, delaying the
notes, advancing the notes, just
a slightly bit, and you give it
a you just give it different
feels. I mean, a lot of songs,
when different guys play them
sound the way they play them. I
mean, it's, it's difficult
concept to grasp on drums,
because it's the drums, yeah,
but it's so true, you know? And
that's the only way to really
explain it, is to see it and
hear
it, yeah, you know? Well, you
know what? I mean, she, she's
got some, she's got some, some
brass stepping into that diff,
you know what I mean, stepping
into that role. And I'm looking
forward to hearing her, because
I, you know my word worry is get
his voice. And how is get his
voice these days? Yeah. I mean,
they did
finding my way. They did the
song they did at the show that
they that circulated online
recently. And I'm like, ooh,
that's little high. That's going
young there. Mr. Lee, yeah,
that's, it's when you were still
in your 20s. And don't know what
you're thinking with that one,
but,
yeah, but you know what? They're
such great players. And you, if
you're a rush fan,
and Getty gets to shrieking,
okay, yeah, you know what? But
it, it's part of him. Do you
know what I mean? And that
song was toned down, was it
really? Oh yeah, no, he's not.
He's he was he sounded like a
banshee. He didn't when he sang
that in his 20s, that's, that
was the same key.
He sure did at all. Yeah, well,
I'm gonna go see him if they
come to Nashville. I don't know
if they're coming to Nashville.
If they are, I would, yeah,
let's, let's go. You buy him.
That's awesome. You got your own
studio and everything.
They're probably buying. If it's
free, it's for me, you know, I
will say
this, if conditions improve with
things that we have and with the
irons in the fire, sure, why not
just, you know, my wife is gonna
be like,
Excuse me, I'm sure that you
want to take the guy that
chucked a coaster at you to the
rush show. Look, man,
you know, getting back to when
we said you guys were kind of
intimidating, not like you were
when you came to the radio
station. You were kind of not
intimidated by, I guess,
intimidated by Phil and Johnny.
You guys had were also there
was, like, in a mutual respect
there would imagine, yeah, when
I first heard, I always knew you
from the DR Laura show, because
you, she always mentioned you,
yeah, and we carried her show in
Vegas. So, I mean, immediately I
would have been
like, what Stan man this, but he
was not her photographer. Let's
make, let's make that very
clear. Here
you went there. Wow, what am I
missing? Here we got, I think I
might know what we're not
missing. Moving right
along, we've got to Dan
still keep in touch with her or,
I mean, just occasionally,
there's gotta be in ladies now,
right?
She's on XM, is she and she is,
I mean, she's doing well, you
know, it's funny. Actually,
listened for the first time in
forever. I listened to her on
satellite radio a couple of
months ago. That woman sounds
the same. Wow, she's gotten
older, but I hear her on
amazing here on promos, because
I have the satellite radio as
well. I've not listened to her
show. And yeah, she sounds
exactly the same. She sounds the
same. She sounds great. And in
the answer to question, no, I
don't Yeah. I mean,
was she always nice and kind to
you? I mean, you enjoyed working
with her, right?
Years, years and years, I It's
great. And you know what? I
mean, it was like this. I mean,
we were in, literally, it was a
room like this, and she's, you
know, behind the mic and and I'm
over there running the board.
And, you know, when I was a KFI,
we I would call, do the call
screening and run the board. And
so she and I went through, you
know, having it held together,
you know, I mean, she would get
in these battles with the
librarians and all this kind of
stuff. And it was great man and
and I have the utmost respect
for she. She did a lot for me.
We carried her, like I said, a
KX NT in Vegas, and when she
came in to do a couple shows a
couple times we we had her fifth
annual 50th birthday,
her fifth annual. 50th birthday.
Okay, might have been a fifth
annual 49th birthday, sure. So
Courtney and I have a picture
with her at the shin dig. But
was she one of those talents
that when the mic turned on, the
character came out? That's a
great question. Because, I mean,
when in person, she was very
cordial, polite, very low, like
Howard Stern was like that,
yeah, like when he was off the
mic, he was really just
reserved.
She was she was chill. I mean,
she and I spent so many years
together and she was chill, but
she she really had a had a
belief in the things that she
stood for, and so there was no
shtick, right, right, right,
right. I mean to me, she was
always great. She was a female,
and she was trying to build her
network, and she knew what her
worth was, and she had to be
strong, because she was in a
male dominated business. And so
she she, she had to be strong,
and she had to take care of
business, and she did an
incredible job. She was an
amazing broadcaster. You know,
she there would be days where I
would be behind the board and
I'm listening in headphones, and
the insight that she had was
just incredible. Like she could
pick up a caller, would call up
and start talking about whatever
problem she had and, or he, and
she would pick up on, like, like
a, like a phrase, and she would
be able to just, you know, cut
right through all of that other
BS and get right to the nugget
of what was going on with this
person. And it was uncanny,
like, I just to this day, I
don't know how she did it. So
from having that insight into
human behavior and and the
things that people do and the
problems they have, to her
ability as a broadcaster, I
mean, it was I learned a lot
just from listening to her and
and I still, I think, to this
day, use the lessons that I
learned from her in my own show.
And, you know, I just, I have
such a fond remembrance of her,
and I should probably call it,
tell her, I just tell her Hello,
yes, yeah, it's been a minute
with Dr.
Well, I mean, we've talked about
on the here too, is that one,
once you leave a radio gig, even
though you guys were like, great
friends, whatever, you kind of
lose track of one another and
that, well, you do. It's like
classmates in school. You're
like, blood blood brothers, and
then it's just gone, yeah, well,
in some cases
she, I mean,
you know, I grew as a
broadcaster. I mean, when I was
with her, I was a board operator
and a producer and all that, and
then I go off and I become a
program director, and I become a
talk show host and all those
kinds of things. But, I mean,
we're just completely different
lives, obviously, now, but, and
you're right, it is, or, you
know, people that maybe you're
on a team together, whatever,
and we'll stay in touch and and
you just don't. But I have such
a as I said, a fond remembering
of my time on that show and
watching it grow from, you know,
nights at KFI to 450 radio
stations. I I didn't have the
appreciation at the time that I
do now of what she accomplished.
Do you know what I mean?
Yeah, she was a top five talker.
Man, yes, she
was when you're when you're when
you're in something you don't
always recognize how special it
is. And so now that I've been
around the block a time or two,
I realize even more how she
accomplished incredible things
in radio. So she remains one of
my all time
favorite people. Well, when you
think about it, I mean, when she
came out, I mean she and rush
were,
oh, yeah. I mean, there was,
yeah, I think that. I think
there was like, I don't know
somebody's gonna fact check me
on this, but I think there was,
like, a couple of books where
she actually beat Rush National,
yes.
I mean, talking a woman getting
into primarily a man's field,
yeah, yeah, male
dominated, yeah. And she, as I
said, she did just she, she was
hyper focused on the business
and succeeding and helping
people. That was the other
thing. Yes, that, you know, she
got a lot of crap. Glad we went
down this road. She gets and got
a lot of crap at the time, and
probably still does, because
people would say, Oh, she's so
mean. Well, you have to
sometimes be mean to people to
get through to them. Well, it's
kind of tough love, really.
That's exactly what it is like.
Yeah, if somebody calls up and
they're doing, you know,
whatever silly thing they're
doing, and and they ask, you
know, Dr Laura's opinion, you.
Well, she's got to be forceful.
Otherwise people just they don't
listen, no, and then they don't
really pay attention to what
you're saying. Sometimes you
need, sometimes you need a, you
know, a brick upside the head to
get through to you. And that's
what Dr Laura was and is. And, I
mean, she's, I run into people,
actually, here in Nashville, who
will come up to me at events,
and they'll say, you know, Doc
Dr Laura helped me back in, you
know, 1994 or whatever it was,
and and so, I mean, of all this
stuff I've done in radio, I mean
that that remains, one of my
favorite things is, you know,
producing her show and getting
to know her as a person, I just
I have the utmost
respect for Well, I have to say
the same about you. I enjoyed
every moment with you, and I
enjoyed doing show with you. It
was hilarious. It was fun. We
had a good I learned a lot, and
I learned a lot from you,
actually, well,
thank you. I learned a lot from
you and from Phil Jay, you
didn't teach me anything.
I figured as much. Yeah, I
remember when Jay first came. I
remember, well, the first day
that he was with us on the
morning show you, and I were
like, wow, this dude
Interesting, yeah.
I mean, I didn't know this man
from Adam, really, and he was,
and I must say, Dan's the guy
that hired me at WTM. He was so
patient with me because I had
another gig at the time that
really didn't allow me to get as
involved with the station that I
would have liked and that, you
know, and he was needing help.
And ultimately he, you know, he
hung in there with me. And, you
know, I've been able, since
things have changed, been able
to devote some time to the
station whenever they whenever
they call upon me. But again, I
didn't know this man from Adam,
and you're right. I mean, like
the first day that I filled in
on news and I gave Dan, like a
zinger man. Oh, you did. I'm
thinking, Oh my God.
I don't remember what it got
it out for me. Dan
and I looked each other like,
Yeah, wow.
Every, every once in a while and
Johnny, Johnny and I dealt with
this, every once in a while, Jay
says something, oh,
dude, what the hell hilarious.
And it comes out of nowhere.
Yeah, the first episode where
you told the story about
Muhammad Ali was
freaking hilarious. Just came
out of nowhere. And yeah, I
don't know if you thought you
were
being funny. Yeah, you kept your
wallet, yeah,
but no, Dan, I mean, you know
it's now,
go back and watch circling the
dream.
Episode One, episode one. But
no, man, I still, you know,
again, coming in that time of
morning. You know, occasionally
is almost worse than doing it
full time, because you're, you
know,
it is worse than doing
it that sleeps. Yeah, you just
get so out of rhythm. And I, and
I'm into so many things, and,
you know, kind of like you, not
quite like you in terms of busy,
but anyway, but I still love
coming in and, you know, joining
you guys well, you know, we
have a lot of fun, and that's
the thing about radio. And bunch
of all radio guys. We still
appreciate radio, we still
appreciate theater the mind, and
we still appreciate working
with each other. Do we have time
for one more? One more? You
gotta get going? Or no, I'm
fine. Radio. Where it's going,
where do you think it's going? I
gotta go
that that is, that is actually a
tough question, like the radio.
People will tell you, Oh, the
future of radio is great, and I
believe that it is. But I do
worry about a bench. Everybody
worries about a bench, if you
ask a guy like me, where is the
next generation of radio
broadcasters coming from? The
world of podcasting, there's a
lot of really good radio
podcasters who or podcasters who
could do radio shows, I believe.
But podcasting and radio is
different. I think with radio,
you need to be more to the
point. You need to be quicker
when you get to the point
podcasting is a little
different. I'm not criticizing
podcasting at all. But if you,
if you can teach a podcaster to
do radio, which I think that you
can, there's your farm club
right there, if the podcasters
are willing to make the
modifications that they need to
make in order to have a
successful radio show. I do
believe that the immediacy of
radio is still something that is
needed, and so one of the things
that I try to do during my show
is, and today was a great
example where you've got, you
know, Israel is bombing Iran and
Trump is posting a true social
is I try very hard to react to
things in real time. I was on
Atlanta last night, and I.
Talking about, you know, Artemis
and Orion and how they're going
through that, that blackout,
that communications blackout
right now as we speak. So the
thing that radio has is the
immediacy, and that's what I try
to incorporate in every single
show that I do. Because
although, you know, some
podcasts, they do the live
podcast or whatever, but I just,
I think the radio still has an
immediacy to it that I think is
critical to its continued
success. Well, I tell you
one thing too, and I don't mean
to build the kids ego, but Sam,
on your show, I think will one
day make a great talk show host.
I think he will too. Yeah, I
think he's got a lot of talent.
What do you think about radio?
Jim and do? Where do you think
the future is?
I believe it's gonna podcasting
and radio are gonna coexist at
some point. I think ultimately
that radio is gonna feed
podcasting. That's if I were at
the head of a Radio Group.
That's what I would do. I would
be, I would be doing the I heart
model, without the I heart debt
and building a podcast network,
and have all the towers blasting
and feeding that network at the
same time, radiofying, if that's
even a word. Podcasting that's
desperately needed. It needs to
be formatted. It needs to have a
little bit more sheen to it. The
podcasters are very raw. You
know, Joe Rogan is, he's raw,
man,
yeah, I love Joe Rogan. Yeah, I
love Joe Rogan. You have a
favorite podcaster?
A lot to him. I listen to Brad
Lee. I listen to a whole bunch
of different you know, I've got
my clients doing these guys are
wonderful to work with. I listen
to every one of our shows that
we do, but favorite, I mean, it
kind of, it comes in and out.
You know, depends on who I
listen to. You know, Gary
Vaynerchuk is a podcast, or, if
you really want, but he'll,
he'll do a podcast on a plane,
into a into his phone, yeah, you
know, and he gets millions of
downloads.
You know, my favorite is, who's
that Professor of rock? Do you
know who professor of rock is?
It's a video. I don't know if a
podcast and video, if you
consider them the same, but he's
on YouTube, Professor of rock,
and he is such a mountain of
music knowledge. And if you are
into music and you're looking
for a podcast to watch or to
listen to, Professor of rock,
that dude. And I'm not one that
watches videos, or it's
actually, to be honest, it's
really the only one that I
watch. Wow, yeah, Professor of
rock, it's really good. And if
I'm driving around and I don't
want to listen to talk radio and
I don't want to listen to music,
I'll listen to him, and he'll
just it's, you know what it is,
it's storytelling the way that
radio should be
whole episodes on the lack of
the storytelling, even
everything and yeah, that's why
we call it
circling the drain. We want
these stories to live on before
they circle the drain. Do you
know who wrote? I know you guys
trying to wrap this up. I have
nothing else to do, so that's
all right.
Do you know who's you get here
as long as you want. I miss
being around you. Man. Do you
know who's
really good at storytelling in
music? Is Morgan Wallen? Like
you listen his music, you listen
his lyrics, and he's got great
stories, and he's got a great
turn of phrase. And I don't know
if anybody here is a Morgan
Wallen fan, but he is like, you
remember my favorite all time
band was journey, yes, way back
when that's changed, really?
Morgan Wallen. Morgan Wallen
Wallen is my guy now. Well, then
he
brought up someone that I'm
really crazy about recently at
one of his shows. This new girl
has come out, Ella Langley. Ella
Langley, I mean, I think she,
she's got it all. She's great
singer. She's gorgeous.
She's choosing Texas, I can
tell, yes, unique voice. There's
a vocal quality to her that's,
that's just interesting.
And it's country. I mean, she's
definitely country.
How long before she takes the
Taylor Swift route? I think,
Oh, you mean, go pop. I don't
think she will. I think she'll
stay. I got five bucks. You
think
just too much twang, for lack of
a better word, no, I don't
think it's that. I just think
she's she's gonna stay. I think
she's pretty much gonna stay to
her roots. I think she's gonna
stay. I don't think
she's guy Jimmy, but flag the
tape, yeah, flag the tape.
I would flag another coaster at
you
even staying country, I think
she'll be as big. I really do.
Oh, she's gonna be huge.
Yeah? I mean, she's already,
she's got
it all, yeah, she broke out last
year, really, yeah, it's just
growing
from there. Is it bad that I'm
sitting here? I have, like, I've
never really heard of her, no. I
mean, I'm the young guy in the
group. I'm like, I don't
know who she is, but I tell you,
if you're gonna go down the road
of talk radio, there's nobody
better than this guy. There's a
reason he won the
Marconi I wanted to get that in
Johnny Marconi award
winner, and I want to add here
as well that the first time he
went. I didn't think he was
going to win it, but the second
time he went and he was dead, he
said, I'm not going to win. I
said, Dude, I have a feeling
you're going to win this time
you did say that I did.
I kept reminding him. I said,
you're going to win this Marconi
award. Get ready. This is going
to happen. And what happened?
You know, I wish that somebody
would have taped my speech,
because I did. Thank you and
thanks.
Somebody's got to have it on
tape, right?
Believe it or not, no, nobody
taped. How, how can nab I'm
talking to you where my camera
is. Like, how can you be a bunch
of broadcasters and nobody
taped? And nobody like recorded
the the Marconi awards, yeah.
How is that possible? The irony,
yeah.
I was like, come on, somebody
was asleep at the wheel.
But anyway, we were all very
proud of you, because I remember
I talked to you when you were
headed, you know, to it was New
York, right? Yeah, where you
went? Yeah. I remember I was at
the station that morning and
wished you well. And I had a
feeling too, John, that this
dude's gonna win this
and he did, you know what? You
know what? The biggest thing I
took away from going to New York
and getting that Marconi was
realizing how much I love living
in Tennessee. Yes, New York does
that effect. Lord have mercy.
So there's just something about
this area, man, it it feels like
home, and it is, well, that
that's
the things like for radio guys.
And how many of us would be
willing to move for a gig out of
Tennessee? I love the South, and
it would be a very tough putt,
even for like guy like me, and
you've moved around, apparently
you're in Vegas. Once you find
some place that you consider
home, it's hard to it's hard to
leave. Yes, it is.
So the thing is, is that, and I
always say this, you guys have
heard me say this is that, you
know, everybody recently we had
CRS. We had a morning show that
from Oregon that came to CRS,
that literally got let go a week
and a half before CRS, and
they're doing a podcast. Wow,
the people left in radio just
because the industry sees you as
valueless does not mean your
value. Does not see you as
valuable. Doesn't mean your
value value less. I think radio
people have a lot to give to Oh,
the digital industry,
absolutely,
Yep, yeah. And one guy that
definitely always will is this
guy right here, Dan mandas, if
you ever get the chance, tune
into super talk, 99 seven. WTN,
you can watch him from anywhere
you can go on YouTube. He also
has the podcast of his own,
mostly peaceful, which used to
be just Chris hand. Now they've
Matt Murphy elbowed his way in.
He sure did,
man, yeah, he sure did. We love
Matt, and you're the guy that
found him for us. I remember, I
remember when you first had him
on, because Pamela fur and I
both wanted that shift. And I
remember when I heard him, I
thought, Oh, there's the guy
right there. I remember being in
the room with Pamela, and she
said, So what do you think of
this guy? I said, Well, he's
better than anybody else. Yeah.
Do you think he's better than
us? And I went, he's better than
anybody else. Wow. But anyway,
check out Dan wherever you can,
and what you see right here is
what you get, because whatever
you hear on the air or what you
see right here, this is Dan men,
I
appreciate real I appreciate the
invite. There's been a lot of
fun, and you'll ever want to
have me back, let
me know. Yeah, go, definitely.
Yeah. But go get some sleep.
Yeah. Go get some sleep.
Go get some shut eye. And Jay
tell them where they can check
us.
Well, of course, we're on all
this, the social media
platforms, as well as all of the
audio podcast platforms. You can
also watch us, not only on
social media, but on circling
the drain.net. Yeah, we've got,
you know, some more things that
are going to be developed on the
website, so no excuse for not
being
able to find us. And if you
can't find us on YouTube, don't
worry about it. We're we're
we're bullying these guys. We're
hitting them in the head, making
them work.
It's on there now. It is on
there now, but
anyway, check us out next time
on circling the drain. You.