Providence College Podcast

In this podcast, relive the celebrations of Commencement Weekend for the Providence College Class of 2024 with a selection of remarks and addresses. Speakers include Rev. Kenneth R. Sicard, O.P., the college’s president; baccalaureate commencement speaker Arthur C. Brooks, Ph.D. '24Hon., an author and expert on happiness; and Wanda S. Ingram, Ed.D. ’75, '24Hon., who retired in 2023 as senior associate dean of student academic success. She addressed graduate program and School of Continuing Education graduates. Also hear from 2023-24 Accinno Award recipient Peter Costello, Ph.D., professor of philosophy; Ava Baron '24, senior class president; and Avery Budnik ’24, an elementary/special education major who is one of three top scholars in the senior class.

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Creators & Guests

Host
Joseph Carr
Sr. Associate Vice President for Marketing & Communications
Producer
Chris Judge
Multimedia and Live Event Producer

What is Providence College Podcast?

The Providence College Podcast features interviews with interesting members of the Friar Family. These in-depth conversations with PC students, Dominicans, faculty, staff, and alumni provide a rich look into the lives of noteworthy Friars. Occasionally we will also bring you on-campus lectures and presentations. Go Friars!

00;00;00;00 - 00;00;38;09
Joe Carr
Welcome to the Providence College Podcast. My name is Joe Carr. Today we will relive Commencement Weekend 2024 through the words of speakers who inspired us at a series of ceremonies and events celebrating the graduates. Let us begin with Friday night's On-Campus Commencement Ceremony for those receiving degrees and graduate programs in the School of Continuing Education. The commencement speaker was Doctor Wanda Ingram, a member of the class of 1975 who had a distinguished career in higher education leadership, including several years as senior Associate Dean of Student Academic Success at Providence College.

00;00;38;11 - 00;00;51;20
Joe Carr
That's a position she held. Upon her retirement last year as part of Sunday's undergraduate commencement, she received an honorary Providence College Doctor of Education degree. Here is the address by Doctor Wanda Ingram.

00;00;51;20 - 00;01;05;15
Wanda Ingram
Father Sicard, executive VP and Molek. Honored guests. Members of the graduating class of 2024. Faculty. Parents, friends. It is truly an honor and a shock to be up here.

00;01;05;17 - 00;01;30;09
Wanda Ingram
I am so proud and my goal is to accomplish three things to congratulate you for your diligence. To pass on a few recommendations, and to challenge you for the future. Can you believe this? This day is here. Congratulations once again. As everyone has said to you, we are at the end of this chapter and the start of something new.

00;01;30;12 - 00;01;52;17
Wanda Ingram
But first, let's savor this moment and think back to what all of you have been through to get here tonight. It is time to take a breath. Learning rowing goal setting can wait a few more minutes and just take all of this in. You did it. You did it.

00;01;52;19 - 00;01;59;27
Unknown
You did it. You have done it. You've done it. And they can't take that.

00;01;59;27 - 00;02;22;03
Wanda Ingram
Away from you. That's the nice thing I like about it. Okay, so who am I and how did I get here? And will I be allowed to come back? I am what is lovingly referred to as a Navy brat. My family was stationed in Newport, Rhode Island back in 1956 and we never left. So to many of you, Newport is known as the city by the sea for tourism.

00;02;22;06 - 00;03;01;01
Wanda Ingram
It was also a large military base, and the Naval War College has been there since the 1800s. So in Newport, the majority of my male teachers and coaches and guidance counselor were Providence College graduates. So when PC went coed in 1971, let's just say, let's just say I was strongly coached by many to come to Providence College, and I am very proud that I am a member of the graduating class of 1975, along with our Executive Vice president in Manchester, Malacca, my first two years as a chemistry major and then switched to experimental psychology.

00;03;01;04 - 00;03;39;17
Wanda Ingram
I can still hear my mother commenting that I had gone from working in labs with chemicals and smelling funny, to working with four legged white critters with pink noses and long tails. I think you figured out what that was, if you get my drift. Although I enjoyed working in the research lab, helping my professor with his doctoral research on operant conditioning, by the time I graduated from PC, I realized that working with humans instead of lab rats, among others, was more interesting and attended a graduate program in psychological counseling.

00;03;39;19 - 00;04;11;23
Wanda Ingram
I have worked on developmental issues of college students ever since. Every now and then I miss the critters, but not for long. But I did enjoy the imprinting of baby chicks. That was a lot of fun. I bring this up to make a point. Exposure is greatly needed to help you determine what you want to do, not necessarily for the rest of your lives, but exposure to new experiences and events help us along the way.

00;04;11;25 - 00;04;47;19
Wanda Ingram
After graduate school, I stayed in counseling and therapy work for seven years, and then found out I could address college student developmental issues in other ways. As a dean. As a professor, with the help of my mentors. Take note. I use the word mentors plural, and I'll get back to that in a minute. We are all here on different stair steps regardless if two of you are sitting next to one another are getting the same degree because all of our journeys are and always will be different.

00;04;47;21 - 00;05;16;08
Wanda Ingram
As we are on this journey, we can learn something new from one another. And as a student, never close yourself off to something new. Now, granted, you may get hit with a lot of new information and not know what to do with it, and that's okay. What I hope you have realized is that you don't have to be a sponge, absorbing everything all the time.

00;05;16;10 - 00;05;44;12
Wanda Ingram
As you get older, you start to realize that many of the moments, as I call them, may not hit you for days or weeks or months and years. Learning and it's all in caps is still a process that still takes time to percolate. And if you don't know what that word percolate is, you're too young. So there are some major questions who are you and what do you want out of life?

00;05;44;14 - 00;06;19;27
Wanda Ingram
Starting with this recent accomplishment? What will be your definition for making a difference? I know that gold is considered a precious commodity, but for many of us, time is also a precious commodity and has been given some of the experiences you have encountered. Just to be sitting in these seats, you should be giving a speech, juggling families, work, other obligations, and still making time for learning all the time.

00;06;19;29 - 00;06;51;10
Wanda Ingram
Searching for balance and achievement. I applaud you all. We have many courses here at PC, but none are going to answer all of our questions. You have all been educated in a variety of majors with core courses and electives, and in some cases, opportunities to test new theories. Working as a graduate assistant and doing internships, we have four plus one students who, as far as I am concerned, also define nature by obtaining a bachelors and a masters.

00;06;51;10 - 00;07;01;07
Wanda Ingram
In five years. Now that's intensity. That's intensity.

00;07;01;09 - 00;07;25;07
Wanda Ingram
So a few recommendations to pass on. First of all, the three letter word try. Otherwise you won't know if you can add another three letters. As an educator, I have to say we want you to leave your comfort zone. It's the only way you will grow as an individual, and everyone does that differently, whether you take another course or not.

00;07;25;09 - 00;07;53;19
Wanda Ingram
Goal setting has and should always be a key factor in your lives. Whether you received all A's. You can still fail. Human being 101. Don't forget where you came from. Technology gives us so much more help, information and assistance. Take advantage of it all and realize that no one size fits all when it comes to being successful with one hand.

00;07;53;22 - 00;08;26;05
Wanda Ingram
Hold on to your mentors and be grateful. But extend your other hand back so you can mentor someone else. Pay it forward. It's on to your next adventure. That should include happy times, some coincidences, some failures, and hopefully many successes. You are here because you worked hard, learning, growing and dreaming. Catch your breath before the next chapter begins.

00;08;26;07 - 00;08;58;16
Wanda Ingram
Another key word determination. It implies a firm sensation of purpose and commitment to reaching goals or following a particular path by working hard and being flexible. That was a mouthful. Those who know me know one of my favorite words is perseverance. Persistence in doing something despite difficulty or delay in achieving success. Let's face it, hard work can lead to success, especially with the support of your friends and your family.

00;08;58;16 - 00;09;26;20
Wanda Ingram
Out here. Find your purpose so you can contribute. It's not necessarily what you achieve, but how you did it. And can you do it again? Think back to what kind of journey it took for you to be here tonight. If it was all grins and giggles, you probably didn't learn much. There has to be challenges. Stepping outside your comfort zone.

00;09;26;22 - 00;10;01;22
Wanda Ingram
Taking risks and owning your mistakes. Take the time to listen and not make assumptions. There is nothing wrong with being uncomfortable at times. There will be certain work keywords like letdowns, setbacks, etc. that will occur. Grow in caps again. Grow with them. Realize that every day is a new lesson. Transferable skills are the greatest of importance. There are so many key words for us during this time and some will change after tonight.

00;10;01;25 - 00;10;27;16
Wanda Ingram
Work on weaknesses, keep strengths and help them to grow. Come up with action words for yourself to inspire challenges for the future. It is my hope that you have found some aspects of a healthy identity as a result of your courses in SCC and the graduate school. So what's your next journey? As you move forward, it's important that you know yourselves.

00;10;27;19 - 00;10;55;07
Wanda Ingram
Be clear and honest about your abilities and what you want to do next for your future with key words satisfaction and enjoyment. The definition of success means something different to each one of us. A degree. Financial security. New job title. Promotions. Ability to give back to others, etc.. Quoting Oprah Winfrey and I quote. There is no such thing as failure.

00;10;55;10 - 00;11;23;27
Wanda Ingram
Failure is just life trying to push you in another direction. And to quote, you all have talents and skills and abilities. So if it didn't work the first time, try it again. When you make mistakes, work on correcting them, not obsessing over them. Become more determined, courageous, and resilient each time with responsibilities and roles that we have for many of us.

00;11;23;29 - 00;11;53;00
Wanda Ingram
Family obligations are first and foremost. Hold on to your mentors and add to your support systems. Self-care and support equals balance and personal and professional growth. Build on what you have been taught and add to them. Don't be a legend in your own mind. Be honest with yourself and never forget where you came from. Take the lessons that you learned and add these experiences to your toolbox.

00;11;53;02 - 00;12;25;10
Wanda Ingram
Now, many of us in this room are more accustomed to receiving everything electronically. Tonight should also be one of those times where you truly appreciate paper. I am talking about your diplomas. It makes what you have accomplished real, tangible and you can show it off. It's making a statement of accomplishment. So get those frames ready and put them on display on somebody's wall.

00;12;25;13 - 00;12;49;18
Wanda Ingram
Once again, I say you earned this accolade. Now, with all the juggling that you've done to make this successful episode happen in your lives once again, what's next? Words like excitement, challenges, obstacles. Is there a routine you'll go back to? Now that this chapter in your lives is finished? What's your biggest goal right now? A lot of questions.

00;12;49;20 - 00;13;20;14
Wanda Ingram
And what makes this more interesting is that people of my generation are living longer and working longer. As a result, the work environment is affected by many different expectations. There are a variety of working and learning styles for various generations. The processing of information in the workplace by such diverse generations is why I am such a hard pusher for having mentors for work cultures, diversity and flexibility.

00;13;20;16 - 00;13;53;21
Wanda Ingram
We have Igen, Genz, millennials. Zealandia, Gen-X Baby Boomers. Thank you very much. And even some Silent Generation members. A lot of them are active board members and owners of some of the companies we're talking about. Finding a balance is most important, as if you haven't had enough homework. I make this recommendation. If you are not aware of these multi-generational issues, depending upon your major, you may want to look at some of the research done by Claire Raines.

00;13;53;24 - 00;14;16;26
Wanda Ingram
You're going to learn a lot. Success is usually possible because of the help of others. There is a lot of work and sacrifice to be in these chairs. After gaining all this knowledge, it can be hard for some of you to decompress and switch gears, but some of you will need to, and that's okay. Gaining new knowledge and skills we know isn't easy.

00;14;16;29 - 00;14;41;25
Wanda Ingram
You all found a way to balance and redefine your titles. For that, I applaud your stupendous work. Keep your PC connections. You never know when you might need some new wisdom. It may have been redundant this weekend. I may have been redundant. I'm sorry with this speech because of the leak, but some things are worth repeating. We are proud of you.

00;14;41;28 - 00;15;07;15
Wanda Ingram
We have faith in you. Go do great things. And from the former first lady, Michelle Obama. And I quote, don't be afraid. Be focused. Be determined. Be hopeful. Be empowered. End of quote. Congratulations, fellow friars. Bless you and thank you for listening and know what comes next. Go, Friars!

00;15;07;18 - 00;15;09;16
Unknown
Thank you.

00;15;09;16 - 00;15;27;08
Joe Carr
Saturday mornings academic award ceremony provided the opportunity to recognize several class members for outstanding academic achievement. Philosophy Professor Peter Costello, winner of the college's Joseph Accinno Faculty Teaching Award, gave the faculty address.

00;15;27;08 - 00;15;54;13
Peter Costello
I'm honored to recognize the excellence of all of you graduating seniors today. On behalf of the faculty. What I'd like to do briefly is first to talk to you about the journeys to this day of recognition. And second, to offer a challenge to you. A number of you here today are members of ROTC within a demanding military science program.

00;15;54;16 - 00;16;26;17
Peter Costello
You were able not only to train to protect your fellow citizens and defend our country, but also to do a fantastic job at your studies. A number of you are Division one athletes again, like those in ROTC. You had so much placed upon you, especially in season. And yet you did so well. A number of you have had to work multiple jobs in the summer, in the school year just to make ends meet.

00;16;26;20 - 00;16;57;24
Peter Costello
And yet here you are, still balancing all of that. A number of you are first generation students without a developed blueprint for how to take on the rigors of an excellent education. An and yet, with all of your family's hopes pinned on you, you excelled beyond their wildest imaginations. And finally, a number of you excelled while suffering illness or loss.

00;16;57;27 - 00;17;33;19
Peter Costello
So many of you then were not just excellent, but excellent within very demanding situations. Now, all of this, all those situations are true for each graduating class. But what makes all of you in this room special is that you did all of this in the midst of a pandemic. You were excellent. Let me emphasize, even when we, the faculty, were not at our best.

00;17;33;21 - 00;18;07;23
Peter Costello
And you should be commended for that. We faculty members switched to zoom, disheveled and ill prepared, anxious for ourselves and our families. And you extended to us patience and kindness. You forgave us and helped our classes go well. Anyway, we, the faculty, owe you a great debt for your commitment and willingness to engage. Thank you.

00;18;07;26 - 00;18;42;20
Peter Costello
But and yes, there is about all the awards and honors and recognition you are receiving comes with a task. Your plaques and pins and cords and certificates and diplomas. These are important. They are like the diploma, the medal and the testimonial given by the Wizard of Oz to the Scarecrow, the lion and the Tin Man. However, the diploma or the medal or the testimonial is not the end of the journey, but the sign of something new.

00;18;42;22 - 00;19;08;19
Peter Costello
After your receiving your awards, the task is for you who are now recognized for your excellence, to recognize and reward excellence wherever you witness it. A number of you, many of you will have children of your own, adopted or biological, and they will be excellent children because they will be yours.

00;19;08;21 - 00;19;34;26
Peter Costello
They will make drawings or write something or say something, and in so doing they will show you excellent thinking. Reward it. A number of you will be platoon leaders, business leaders, directors of a laboratory. You will have soldiers, teammates, coworkers, and they will be excellent because they are yours when they do things in an excellent way. Recognize them.

00;19;35;03 - 00;20;09;06
Peter Costello
Give to them what we are giving to you in a dialog by Plato called The Minnow, which some of you read in DWC. Socrates has asked a question can excellence be taught? And his answer is basically no, nothing can be taught. He says to prove this, he calls on a slave, a person forced to remain uneducated by wealthy Athenians to demonstrate through some guiding questions, answers to the most difficult and abstract questions.

00;20;09;08 - 00;20;34;08
Peter Costello
Why did Socrates engage in conversation with a slave? I think it was because what mattered to him was guiding people to see that they are always on the way to learning, to demonstrating excellence from within, no matter who they are. In the Gospel of Matthew, the mother of two of Jesus's disciples comes to speak to Jesus with her sons.

00;20;34;11 - 00;21;00;24
Peter Costello
She asked Jesus for recognition, for her son's demands that they be rewarded the right and left hands in the kingdom of heaven. After all, she seems to say, Johnny and Jimmy have gotten all A's as your disciples. But Jesus, presumably saying, made a point similar to Socrates. Excellence depends not only on our performance, but on the other person, on the one who recognizes.

00;21;00;27 - 00;21;34;16
Peter Costello
I think sometimes we're afraid that excellence awards recognitions, that these are scarce resources, but they're not. Recognition and excellence are not cryptocurrency. We simply need to pay attention and to command. In fact, the more excellence and recognition multiply, the better for everyone. Recognition excellence. These are like love. The more you give it, the more you witness it, the more there is.

00;21;34;18 - 00;22;09;07
Peter Costello
Excellence doesn't just depend on our accomplishments. It also lies in taking on the form of a slave. The role of a servant to be a part of the process of recognition. And this is how Jesus responds to that mother. Anyone? Jesus says, whoever wants to be recognized. Excellent to be first must become a servant, a slave. In short, Jesus teaches us that excellent achievements call out for recognition, but must await a response.

00;22;09;09 - 00;22;37;25
Peter Costello
We cannot short circuit the process of recognition by confrontation. We must wait and serve, and while we are waiting, we must recognize others for their own value and their excellence. If you remember so long ago, you may not remember I talked about the Tin Man. It's almost over. He received neither a diploma nor a medal, but a testimonial.

00;22;37;27 - 00;23;04;29
Peter Costello
What was his testimonial? He received the pocket watch from the Wizard for his service to Dorothy. And this watch symbolized both a heartbeat and the passage of time. Because the Tin Man took the time to love, to care. There is a parallel to the Tin Man here in this room. We, the faculty, like the Tin Man, care about you.

00;23;05;02 - 00;23;29;27
Peter Costello
We have asked guiding questions, given lectures, have created opportunities. It is our pleasure and great honor to recognize you for your accomplishments. Like the Tin Man, we have helped you get to this moment. But let's face it, you were the ones who created the wonderful artistic pieces, who wrote the clear papers, who performed the work in the lab.

00;23;29;29 - 00;23;54;21
Peter Costello
We were with you. But you did it. Like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz. Something that's always puzzled me. You had the power all along, but you had to come to see it for yourself. And thinking about the Mino, the gospel and the Wizard of Oz, and the acts of giving and receiving these awards, what ought we to notice?

00;23;54;24 - 00;24;26;13
Peter Costello
We ought to notice that Providence College, indeed any college, is always more about learning than it is about teaching. And we ought to realize that our recognition of you really is just a way of marking out to you the task to go and do likewise. Congratulations.

00;24;26;13 - 00;24;43;07
Joe Carr
Three members of the class of 2024 finished with perfect 4.0 grade point averages, tied for highest in academic rank. One of those students, Avery Budnick, a mashpee, Massachusetts resident who graduated with an elementary special education degree. Addressed the audience.

00;24;43;07 - 00;25;13;16
Avery Budnick
Good morning. Welcome. Friends, family, faculty and staff, and most importantly, the class of 2024. For those of you who know me personally, you know how super excited I was about the prospect of speaking in front of this many people today. So thank you, everybody for being here. In all seriousness, the number of people in this room can only be equated to the amount of love and support we feel as a graduating class, and I'm grateful for the opportunity to thank you all virtually.

00;25;13;18 - 00;25;43;00
Avery Budnick
Thank you to the faculty and staff members who facilitate our learning. As an education major, I have become even more appreciative of your hard work and selflessness as I've engaged more with the profession. I especially want to thank my advisors here at PC Doctor Anthony Rodriguez and Molly McCann, as well as my mentors at Pleasantville Elementary School. They never let me believe there was anything I could not accomplish, which is exactly what good teachers do to the family and supportive friends.

00;25;43;03 - 00;26;06;00
Avery Budnick
We, the graduates, are privileged enough to be sitting here today because of you. Your sacrifices and encouragement cannot be overstated. Even if they are not always recognized or appreciated. From coordinating the logistics of even getting us to campus, to answering phone calls at all hours of the day and night, thank you for being here today as a final show of support in our education journeys.

00;26;06;03 - 00;26;30;18
Avery Budnick
I also want to take a quick moment to especially thank my own family, without whom I would not be here today. To my sister Joy, for skipping her entire first day of second grade to stay with me during my first day of kindergarten when I did not want to go, you started it all for me and have always been my greatest protector to my brother Wil, for being my ultimate inspiration behind my passion for teaching and my best friend.

00;26;30;21 - 00;26;53;28
Avery Budnick
I'm grateful for our year here together and look forward to a lifetime with you as friar family members. Thank you to my dad for the much needed and frequent comedic relief, and for reminding me that learning is a lifelong process. And finally, to my mom, who is truly the most hardworking person I know. There are not enough words in the English language to sufficiently convey my gratitude for you.

00;26;54;00 - 00;27;11;15
Avery Budnick
While there are countless others I would like to address personally. I'm going to follow the advice of the numerous YouTube videos I watched in preparation for today and refocus my attention on our class. I'm sure many of us can testify that we have been asked this question more in the last few months than we have in our entire lives.

00;27;11;17 - 00;27;32;02
Avery Budnick
What do you want to do? And I'm sure for many of us, answering that question was much easier 15 years ago than it is today. As a child, everything still seems possible, and there are no limits placed upon our dreams by ourselves or others. I'm one of the lucky few whose answers have stayed the same throughout the years.

00;27;32;04 - 00;27;56;19
Avery Budnick
I want to be a teacher, but whether you're here tonight, completely confident in your next steps in life, or have no idea of what tomorrow after 3 p.m. holds, I want to encourage you to think of the question differently. I recently came across a video on social media of a woman on a college campus. She was going up to students and asking them what they wanted to do and how much they wanted to make.

00;27;56;20 - 00;28;20;03
Avery Budnick
Upon graduation, the student's answers were typical and likely comparative to what our community members may respond. It wasn't until she interviewed an elementary school age child that anything stuck out to me. She asked the child like he wanted to be when he grew up. The child responded that he wanted to be a doctor. When the interviewer asked the child what he wanted to make.

00;28;20;06 - 00;28;52;25
Avery Budnick
The child paused and then responded. I want to make people feel okay. This simple but profound statement highlights the importance of the actions, the intent, and the doing behind our roles that we too often forget about today. More often, we are overcome with pressure to collect titles we identify as important or earn monetary amounts. We define a successful and thus we miss the most important part of the question what do you want to do for me?

00;28;52;27 - 00;29;17;05
Avery Budnick
Becoming a teacher is more than just a career choice. While I am in search of one particular title, I am determined to accomplish much more than what one man has. Apart from that single descriptor. What I want to actually do is empower students and help them develop self-confidence, regardless of their backgrounds or past experiences. I want to make my students happy, and I want to make them feel safe.

00;29;17;08 - 00;29;41;16
Avery Budnick
The one thing I won't have to do, however, is teach my students to dream with pure intentions. This is something I believe we are all born with, and it's never too late to reactivate. As for all of us, it doesn't matter if our dreams have changed a million times over the years. I personally do not know any second graders who know what political science, health policy management, or quantitative economics is.

00;29;41;19 - 00;30;06;10
Avery Budnick
So I'm confident in saying that it is healthy to evolve in this way. However, don't let the roots of your dreams change, even if the fruits of your efforts look different than what you once imagined. In closing, this is our opportunity to get out into the real world and do something good. No matter what field you end up in or whether your impact is big, small, flashy, or subdued.

00;30;06;12 - 00;30;20;29
Avery Budnick
Make sure your actions are something your seven year old self would be proud of. It's more important to impress that version of yourself than the one today. Thank you very much. Congratulations and Go Friars!

00;30;20;29 - 00;30;35;28
Joe Carr
Sunday's baccalaureate commencement drew thousands of graduates, family members and friends to the Amica mutual Pavilion in downtown Providence. Here is the commencement address presented by Providence College President Father Kenneth R Sicard.

00;30;35;28 - 00;31;21;22
Rev. Kenneth Sicard
Bishop Henning and members of the clergy. Lieutenant governor. Matos. Mayor smiley. Members of the Providence College Corporation. The Board of Trustees and the President's Councils. Members of the faculty and staff. Alumni of Providence College. Honorees. Parents, families and guests and graduates of the class of 2024. Good morning, and welcome to our 106th Commencement Exercises. Congratulations to all of today's graduates on your achievements and to the five remarkably accomplished individuals we will recognize with honorary degrees.

00;31;21;25 - 00;31;50;25
Rev. Kenneth Sicard
As we take this moment to celebrate the class of 2024, we should also thank those who have made today possible. I ask all of today's graduates to stand and recognize the critical role that your families, your friends and your professors played in helping you achieve the goal you realize today. Please stand and let's acknowledge them.

00;31;55;21 - 00;32;31;27
Rev. Kenneth Sicard
You can be seated. The class of 2024 will always occupy a special place in our memories and in our hearts. When Covid arrived in 2020, our immediate concerns related to the semester that was underway. How would we stay safe? How would we provide classes remotely? Once we gained our footing, we turned to another concern the class that would begin with us in the fall, mostly comprising those graduating from high school in 2020.

00;32;31;29 - 00;33;06;11
Rev. Kenneth Sicard
To be honest, we were worried about you. You were missing so much at the end of your senior year of high school. You were facing every kind of uncertainty with regard to choosing a college and transitioning to the next stage of your lives. Dean Sears and our team started planning very early for bringing you to campus safely, while also providing for the socialization and acclimation that are critical to getting off to a good start in college.

00;33;06;13 - 00;33;26;06
Rev. Kenneth Sicard
The best decision we made was to make sure your first fall semester was not remote, and at the same time.

00;33;26;08 - 00;33;59;10
Rev. Kenneth Sicard
At the same time, you were navigating uncharted waters. Most everything you expected expected was called into question. Of course you had doubts, but you overcame those doubts and decided on PC, starting a journey that would have many twists and turns, but one that would lead to the realization of your goals here today. And here we are celebrating the great Providence College success story.

00;33;59;12 - 00;34;34;25
Rev. Kenneth Sicard
That is the collective achievements of the class of 2024. You took a chance on PC and to the trust you showed us, you have added tenacity and resilience. It was a leap of faith. Faith is the ability to believe what we cannot see, and is one of the greatest gifts God has given us, and yours has been rewarded not only by the degrees you receive today, but by all you have learned and experienced along the way.

00;34;34;28 - 00;35;09;00
Rev. Kenneth Sicard
And your experiences echoed those of the alumni who have come before you. You have learned from our faculty. You have had opportunities to deepen your faith, and you have made friends for a lifetime. It is you are students who inspire our collective imagination and motivate our work to continue pushing forward to making sure that Providence College continues to advance, to thrive, to grow in ways that will make you proud.

00;35;09;06 - 00;35;48;21
Rev. Kenneth Sicard
As alumni. And you have seen a lot of that progress during your time here. Even though we all faced challenges, our student population has grown and applications are at an all time high. National ranking services continue to endorse PC as a high quality choice, affirming your good judgment. We establish a Phi Beta Kappa chapter and a School of Nursing and Health sciences, while opening Shanley Hall and investing in the things that make our student experience of the highest standards.

00;35;48;23 - 00;36;02;00
Rev. Kenneth Sicard
And we beat Georgetown right here in this building.

00;36;02;03 - 00;36;33;26
Rev. Kenneth Sicard
You are graduating from a hot, highly competitive college. And just a brief aside, if you will indulge me, I will always have a special affinity for the class of 2024 because I started as president the summer before you started as students. You are the first class to be with me all the way through your time here, and we, administrators and faculty become conditioned to measure time in four year stretches.

00;36;33;28 - 00;37;04;19
Rev. Kenneth Sicard
So today marks a bit of a milestone for me to. And it has been a joy getting to know so many of you and to watch you grow as students and as people ready to have a positive impact on the world around you with all the memories you have made. I hope you take away the satisfaction that comes with knowing that you are part of a community built on shared values and cherished ideals.

00;37;04;22 - 00;37;27;13
Rev. Kenneth Sicard
As Provost Reed mentioned earlier, our motto, Veritas is our mission. We seek the truth. And that mission is rooted in the Catholic and Dominican ideals that inspired our founders to create this remarkable place. More than a century ago.

00;37;27;15 - 00;38;01;26
Rev. Kenneth Sicard
This is all an element of God's loving plan for you. And this is what we mean by divine providence. And it is Providence that brings us together in one time, at one place, to share in the joy of celebrating the class of 2024. Today, each of you begins a new chapter in your Providence College story. When you walk across this stage, degree in hand, you will join an alumni community strong and proud to love and virtue.

00;38;01;26 - 00;38;33;07
Rev. Kenneth Sicard
Sworn. You'll be called to model the character and integrity of those who preceded you as friars to continue pursuing truth, growing and virtue, and serving God and neighbor. You will open doors to a world of possibilities, to opportunity beyond imagining, to a life beyond limits. I pray for your good fortune and for fulfillment in all aspects of your lives.

00;38;33;10 - 00;38;40;14
Rev. Kenneth Sicard
God bless you and God bless Providence College and Go Friars.

00;38;40;27 - 00;38;53;02
Joe Carr
The next speaker at Sunday's commencement ceremony was Senior Class President Avery Barron, a political science and history major from Chicopee, Massachusetts. She shared these comments with her classmates.

00;38;53;12 - 00;39;26;07
Ava Baron
Welcome family, friends, faculty, staff, alumni, honored guests, and of course, graduating members of the class of 2024. It is an honor and privilege to speak with you all here today. I would be remiss if I did not take time to thank the people that have helped us get here, to our families and friends. Your endless encouragement has enabled us to rise above everything as we tackled going to college during a global pandemic, and as we adjusted back to reality.

00;39;26;09 - 00;39;52;20
Ava Baron
You have been there for us every step of the way. Personally, to my mom, dad and brother, thank you and I love you to the many different professors and staff members. I also want to express thanks on the behalf of the class of 2020, for you have always pushed us both inside and outside the classroom, and we could have not gotten here without your support.

00;39;52;22 - 00;40;17;20
Ava Baron
I would also like to personally thank all the class officers, past and present. It has been my pleasure to work with each of you over the past couple of years. The many great experiences that brought our class together would not have been possible without your dedication and commitment. Now, as I contemplated how to start this speech, I decided to look up quotes for inspiration.

00;40;17;22 - 00;40;42;00
Ava Baron
One that immediately stuck with me was I always get to where I'm going by walking away from where I've been. Before we walk away today. I decided let's take a step back and look at where we've been together. The first couple of years of college, we had to deal with something that no one particularly enjoyed, but it brought us all together.

00;40;42;02 - 00;41;07;27
Ava Baron
Of course, I am referencing the Covid 19 pandemic. It is because of this pandemic, though, that we entered the school at a time like no other. Being told to stay in pods testing twice a week and online classes seemingly were the norm. Comments and advice like you guys are missing out or just wait and see seemed meaningless. I mean, how could it not?

00;41;07;29 - 00;41;42;25
Ava Baron
We didn't know any better. The pandemic brought our class closer, though, in a way that no one could have imagined. Starting sophomore year, our class was finally able to come together, take in-person classes, go to in-person events that just further bonded us. It is undeniable, though, that the thing that brought our class most together was the success of our men's basketball team, right here in this very building.

00;41;42;28 - 00;42;07;01
Ava Baron
The theme of luck that was personified on the court that year finally seemed to be applying to us junior year through a new twist, as we are finally starting to connect. Half our class went abroad to experience new and exciting places. We had students ride camels in Morocco, wear matching Octoberfest outfits in Germany, and go snorkeling at the Great Barrier Reef.

00;42;07;04 - 00;42;34;18
Ava Baron
The students who did not go abroad would subsequently love to hear oh, how abroad changed me over and over again. As soon as their friends returned. Nevertheless, our class was soaring to new heights and exploring new and fascinating places. Senior year proved to be the greatest collective experience for our class, though finally, we were all reunited together as one.

00;42;34;21 - 00;43;00;26
Ava Baron
Being able to experience traditions like Senior Weekend and traveling together for Spring Break. Our class has never been closer. As we near the very end. I know many of us would wish for one more Brads Thursday or one last Gene Sears email motivating us to get the job done. I suppose I'll have to do Dean Sears. I hope this next part leaves even you feeling inspired.

00;43;00;29 - 00;43;26;18
Ava Baron
A famous Japanese myth can be adapted to the experience of being a Providence College student. It holds that human relations are predestined by a red string that the gods tie to the pinky fingers of those who find each other in life. Legend has it that the two people connected by this thread will have an important story, regardless of the time, place, or circumstances.

00;43;26;21 - 00;43;50;03
Ava Baron
But surely this mystical string can extend to both people and to institutions. Because when you ask our class about what they feel is important, or why they feel connected to our time here, I'm sure you will hear thousands of reasons why. For example, it's getting your friends together to go back to back and winning the intramural flag football championships.

00;43;50;06 - 00;44;14;05
Ava Baron
It's being a six chance member and making everybody laugh, but still being able to tackle important issues like advocacy and diversity. It's being a skilled dancer, but also being able to attend conferences to present the research you've done on astrophysics. It's having our athletes on all levels, like women's club lacrosse or varsity women's track and field Domini in their respective sports.

00;44;14;07 - 00;44;39;20
Ava Baron
Sealing their fate in school history. Regardless of all the individual things we've done or accomplishments we've achieved. This school is our red shirt. It is a place that has enabled us to meet the people with whom we build our story. It's the thing that we will be connected by regardless of time, place or circumstances, no matter wherever we go or who we become.

00;44;39;22 - 00;45;02;10
Ava Baron
There will always be this string tying us back to here, to our friar family. So as we walk away from where we've been, I suppose there are only six words left to say. Providence College. You belong with me. Congratulations. Class of 2024. God bless and go, Friars.

00;45;02;10 - 00;45;15;24
Joe Carr
Sunday's commencement ceremony concluded with a commencement address by Doctor Arthur C Brooks, a professor in the Harvard Kennedy School and the Harvard Business School. A social scientist of renown, he is an expert on happiness.

00;45;15;27 - 00;45;22;09
Joe Carr
Doctor Brooks, upon whom PC also confirmed an honorary degree on Sunday. Delivered these remarks.

00;45;22;09 - 00;45;52;18
Arthur Brooks
Father Sicard, Bishop Henning, faculty, trustees, families, and most importantly, my fellow degree recipients from Providence College. What a delight it is to be with you here today. I'm honored to be receiving this honorary degree, and even more so to address you on this most joyous day. As incredible achievement. Now, as you heard in that gracious introduction from Father Sicard, I left college at 19.

00;45;52;21 - 00;46;13;02
Arthur Brooks
that was not my choice. I dropped out of college. Well, dropped out, kicked out, splitting hairs. At this point, I didn't have the experience that you're having here. I went on the road as a musician because that was all I knew how to do. I had to make a living. I spent all my 20s working as a musician.

00;46;13;04 - 00;46;36;27
Arthur Brooks
My parents called it my gap decade. I made it back to college by correspondence and graduated a month before my 30th birthday, and I always wished I could have had this experience, this beautiful social and intellectual experience that you're having. But you know what? I am having this experience through the eyes of my daughter, Marina. Oh, she's a psychology major.

00;46;36;27 - 00;46;51;28
Arthur Brooks
Will be right here. I'll be in the audience as a parent one year from now. She's having a wonderful experience at this beautiful college. She's also a women's rugby player. I'm happy to say.

00;46;52;00 - 00;46;56;17
Arthur Brooks
Yes, indeed.

00;46;56;20 - 00;47;13;01
Arthur Brooks
The day after tomorrow, she'll be leaving for Quantico, Virginia, for the Officer Candidate School, the U.S. Marine Corps.

00;47;13;04 - 00;47;18;22
Arthur Brooks
I don't know where she's sitting right now, but she's not happy with me.

00;47;18;24 - 00;47;37;28
Arthur Brooks
I talk about happiness for a living. I'm a scientist, and I work on the science of happiness. I teach the subject of the science of happiness right up the road at the Harvard Business School. My class is the most popular elective at the Harvard Business School line. Not because of me, but because we all want more happiness in our lives.

00;47;37;28 - 00;48;03;28
Arthur Brooks
My students are in the last semester of their last year of their MBA program getting ready to graduate, and they're starting to figure something out. Worldly success in business might not be the secret to happiness. And as they're heading out, my class is kind of the last chance saloon. Maybe there's something more to it. I have 180 students enrolled in my class.

00;48;03;28 - 00;48;32;24
Arthur Brooks
I have 400 on the waiting list, and there's even an illegal zoom link they think I'm not aware of. I only have 15 minutes with you today. I was going to make a joke and say, I only have 90 minutes with you here today, but my guess is you'd get up and leave. I can't tell you in 15 minutes what I teach my students, but I can give you a few ideas that I think are most important on your graduation day, I'm going to give you the three things I want you to think about.

00;48;32;26 - 00;48;52;08
Arthur Brooks
Not that I think you should do, but the three things I think you should not do. If you want to live your happiest life now. The world is full of lies about how to live a happy life. You know this is true. You can get rich by telling people that they'll be happy if they drive a certain car.

00;48;52;11 - 00;49;09;09
Arthur Brooks
You can get elected president of the United States, but convincing people that their lives will make sense if they just get angry and hateful enough about politics.

00;49;09;11 - 00;49;40;23
Arthur Brooks
That's all the bad news I have in my speech. Now, the good news there's not just lies out there. There are people who tell the truth as well. There's a specific group of men and women who have dedicated themselves to correcting the lies about the good life, and they've been doing it for 800 years. This is the Dominican order of sisters and brothers and priests.

00;49;40;26 - 00;50;03;08
Arthur Brooks
In case you haven't been paying attention, they started Providence College. By the way, I want to tell you about three big lies that the world has probably told you that can really hold you back if you pay attention to them. And I want to give you the truths that the Dominicans have taught over the centuries that can save you a lot of trouble in your life.

00;50;03;10 - 00;50;24;08
Arthur Brooks
Here's line number one you need to have your whole future figured out right now. Now, you've probably heard that you come to college for a specific reason is to figure out your specific career and your life ambitions. You're supposed to figure out what your passion is and what you're good at, and what the world needs from you. And only you.

00;50;24;10 - 00;50;54;18
Arthur Brooks
And maybe, besides feeling happy and jubilant about finishing at Providence College, maybe you're a little insecure about that, because just maybe, you haven't figured those things entirely out by now. It turns out that's really good news. If you haven't. College we here is supposed to give you all of the information that you need and a blueprint for your future, and in a sort of a road to Damascus way, you're supposed to graduate very confident and clear in your worldly goals.

00;50;54;18 - 00;51;32;12
Arthur Brooks
If you aren't, well, who knows? Maybe that means you'll never get a job that you love and you'll never really succeed as a result. That's fake news, In fact, you should not have your future all figured out. Not now. And and not later. This is what we learn from a a 13th century Dominican mystic, Meister Eckhart. He taught again and again that, in his words, we should live without a why now that can be misinterpreted as if we should be directionless or not have goals in this life.

00;51;32;12 - 00;51;56;25
Arthur Brooks
And that's not what he meant at all. He meant that we should always remember that there's one ultimate goal in life, and everything else is subservient to it. We should be flexible in everything except in loving God and loving others. That's what we have to be focused on for the rest of our lives. That comes before our careers and our money and our worldly ambition.

00;51;56;28 - 00;52;26;14
Arthur Brooks
Look, ordinary goals are good. I recommend them to everybody, including myself. A lot of research shows that, of course, but they should be just intentions, not attachments, directions in life, not attachments that distract us from loving others and doing God's will. If you're still a little insecure about your future right now, I have a secret. Me too. And all of them.

00;52;26;14 - 00;52;58;02
Arthur Brooks
Two. And that's a good thing. We should work hard in whatever opportunity we find on this earth and in our lives, but stay open to God's providence. So each night, starting tonight, offer up your life and offer up your future to the Lord and ask that his will, not yours, be done. Let God guide the incredible adventure of your life starting today.

00;52;58;05 - 00;53;27;13
Arthur Brooks
Line number two. This one is even more common. Line number two is that suffering is bad. You know, you've probably heard this again and again that your suffering is evidence that there's something wrong with you. This is actually pretty similar to a big line that people were hearing in the 1960s. You know, back in the 60s, the hippies used to have this motto, if it feels good, do it right.

00;53;27;13 - 00;53;35;26
Arthur Brooks
I remember my father hearing that and saying, that's the end of America. He was kind of right.

00;53;35;29 - 00;54;05;29
Arthur Brooks
That was a a dumb motto because it led to a lot of suffering and a lot of addiction and a lot of broken families. But today's unofficial motto is even worse if it hurts in my life, make it stop. Sadness and fear today are too often considered to be evidence of pathology or even sickness. People increasingly see ordinary sadness, ordinary suffering and stress as evidence that they have an emotional disorder.

00;54;06;02 - 00;54;36;15
Arthur Brooks
The truth is that life is complicated and and difficult. Negative emotions are normal and healthy. There isn't something about sadness and anxiety in your life that makes you weird. On the contrary, look, you're doing hard things. If you're not sad and anxious sometimes, then you need therapy. Now, I didn't come up with this idea, of course. Let me give you an example of somebody who had a lot of pretty eloquent words about the importance of suffering.

00;54;36;18 - 00;55;04;25
Arthur Brooks
Saint Rose of Lima. She was a 17th century Dominican tertiary. She was the first person in the Americas to be canonized as a saint by our church. She dedicated herself to serving the poorest of the poor in Peru, her native country, where she suffered a lot. She had ill health, suffered from all sorts of setbacks in her life, and great torment before she died at the age of 31.

00;55;04;28 - 00;55;30;08
Arthur Brooks
She was an expert on pain and suffering. Her, her own and that of others. You might think that she'd hate it, but you'd be wrong. Here's some words of Saint Rose of Lima. That's what she said. Grace comes after tribulation. Without the burden of afflictions, it's impossible to reach the height of grace. The gifts of grace increase as the struggles increase.

00;55;30;10 - 00;55;57;09
Arthur Brooks
There's a funny thing that I've discovered as a behavioral scientist about human beings. Satisfaction in your life only comes after pain and struggle. That's the truth. If you don't struggle for something, you won't enjoy it. If you cheated to get an A on an exam, which obviously none of you ever did, You won't enjoy the A? There's no sweetness to it.

00;55;57;11 - 00;56;21;26
Arthur Brooks
You stayed up all night working on it. Then it's great. It's a funny thing. Remember when you were a child and your parents said, don't eat before dinner? And then you said, obviously why they lied to you at that point, they said, it's bad for your health. That's not why they wanted you a little hungry at dinner. They wanted you to suffer a little bit at dinner time because then dinner was good.

00;56;21;29 - 00;56;42;04
Arthur Brooks
They couldn't quite put it into words, but they wanted the joy that comes after struggle so that you can live a satisfying life and learn how to defer your gratification. That's what a good life is all about. Now, you know, don't get me wrong, suffering can be adapted. It can be a medical problem, as in the case of clinical depression.

00;56;42;04 - 00;57;17;25
Arthur Brooks
But but suffering per se is not evidence that you're broken. Remember this as your struggle in the coming years. Remember that our Savior, Jesus Christ suffered His Blessed Mother suffer. Are you suffering? That means you're a human on earth. Lean into your life. Be fully alive. Lion number three. Now it gets a little bit more complicated. You've often been told, and you will be told increasingly a future, that you need to know your truth.

00;57;17;27 - 00;57;54;24
Arthur Brooks
It's a big problem. That's an expression that we hear a lot today. My truth. It didn't exist in my generation. I wouldn't have understood it. But you've heard it a lot. You need to know your truth. Everyone has his or her own life experience and and so each person knows his or her own truth. This is what's led us to a culture of identity politics full of in groups and outgroups, who all have their own truths, all fired up by activists conscripted as child soldiers into our culture war, keen to keep us angry and at each other's throats.

00;57;54;26 - 00;58;15;19
Arthur Brooks
That leads to a lot of misery. Let me tell you about some very early research in my own field. Back in 1984, a famous psychologist by the name of Daniel Lapsley was studying the cause of a new phenomenon that he was starting to see, which was rising levels of depression among young adults, adolescents and young adults. People your age.

00;58;15;21 - 00;58;36;10
Arthur Brooks
People didn't know what was going wrong. Why was this happening? It was a new problem. Of course, we know the end of that story. It's exploded in the subsequent decades. He asked these adolescents that he saw were suffering a lot to react to a number of statements such as, quote, everyone's opinion is just as good as everyone else's opinion.

00;58;36;12 - 00;59;09;11
Arthur Brooks
And something else like there is no such thing, is the truth. His conclusion was stark and clear from the research a belief in relative truth will bring you clinical depression. Why? Here's why. Here's why. Because if you believe that you have a unique source of truth, that you are the true North, that there's nothing more right and authentic than you, you're saying that your God, how boring, how depressing that your God.

00;59;09;13 - 00;59;37;02
Arthur Brooks
I don't want to be God. I want a better universe than that. Now good news. You're going to a college here. You're finished at a college here that has a word on its crest. Veritas. It doesn't say Veritas, mayor, which was my truth. It says Veritas. There is truth. How do you get it? For this, we turn to the perhaps the greatest Dominican mind of all besides President Sicard.

00;59;37;02 - 01;00;08;08
Arthur Brooks
Of course, Saint Thomas Aquinas, the 13th century angelic doctor, and his Summa Theologica, taught that there's really just one divine truth the ineffable mystery of the truth of God. But here's the problem you can't find it on earth. You can't reach it entirely on earth. But that's not the point. The point is approaching the one truth, that ultimate truth, trying to find it.

01;00;08;10 - 01;00;32;01
Arthur Brooks
How do you do that? The answer to how you find the ultimate truth is by listening to other people. The mayor of Providence, Mayor Smiley, in his brief remarks, said, listen to other people, especially those with whom you disagree. A competition of ideas fundamental to a free society. There's not a lot of that out there. Is there a lot of a lot of humility out there?

01;00;32;03 - 01;00;54;11
Arthur Brooks
There's not a lot of information about what other people think, say, I don't know, what do you think? How can you be humble? Let me give you an example of how I try to do it with Harvard University. We also have the crest that says Veritas on it. But I dare say that at my university we don't have enough humility.

01;00;54;13 - 01;01;14;25
Arthur Brooks
You may have noticed this. So on my birthday each year, by the way, there's a lot of evidence of this. You know, one of the things we say at Harvard that listening is also known as waiting to talk. All right. On my birthday each year to practice a little bit of humility. When I was a younger man, I used to have a bucket list.

01;01;15;03 - 01;01;33;04
Arthur Brooks
Y'all know what a bucket list is? It's a metaphor where you take your cravings and desires, your attachments, and you write them down and you imagine yourself succeeding in all these things, consuming all of these things. It's not what I do now. Now I have what I call my reverse bucket list, where I take my strongest opinions and I write them down.

01;01;33;04 - 01;01;55;18
Arthur Brooks
See, these are my attachments. And then I across them out. Not because I don't believe things, but because I will not be attached to and controlled by my opinions. This is a 2024 is a is a kind of an important year in my reverse bucket list for two reasons. Next Tuesday I have a big birthday. It's got a zero on it.

01;01;55;20 - 01;02;24;13
Arthur Brooks
Okay, now I it's pretty obviously not 50. I hope it's equally obvious it's not 70. So my process of elimination, you know how old I'm turning on Tuesday. But 2024 is also an important year because this is an election year in the United States, and everybody's got strong opinions, and we're all being encouraged by the media and the malignant narcissists in Washington, DC to hate each other because of our opinions.

01;02;24;13 - 01;02;36;03
Arthur Brooks
So you know what? I'm putting on my reverse bucket list? My political opinions. Yeah. See, I need fewer political opinions because I need more friends.

01;02;36;06 - 01;02;42;28
Arthur Brooks
Give it a try.

01;02;43;01 - 01;03;09;07
Arthur Brooks
Humility is the secret of happiness. Humility is the true secret to success in life. Here's a quote from Saint Dominic de Guzman himself where humility rather than fine clothes. That's not just about being virtuous, it's about being happy. Now I'm almost done. But I want to sum it up in something that you can remember, because this is a graduation speech and nobody ever said I remembered every word in my graduation speech.

01;03;09;09 - 01;03;28;00
Arthur Brooks
Let me give you a formula. No, let me start with the world's formula of lies on how to live a good life. See, it sounds really simple and easy, but it's all upside down. Here's what the world tells you to do. Graduate from college today and do three things. Love things.

01;03;28;02 - 01;03;29;04
Speaker 4
Well.

01;03;29;06 - 01;03;49;23
Arthur Brooks
Use people and worship yourself. That's what the world tells you to do. Use things in your life materialism, material success, etc. that will bring you happiness. Use people. People are there for your consumption and your gratification. Do that. And and last but not least, don't forget that you're the star of your psychodrama. You're the only thing that matters worse of yourself.

01;03;49;25 - 01;04;09;07
Arthur Brooks
That's what the world tells you to do. I get it, I hear I'm in the world to the right formula for happiness. To sum up all of this Dominican wisdom that I've been summarizing here in my in my remarks sounds just like that, but it changes the verbs and the nouns. So here's what I want you to remember in six words.

01;04;09;10 - 01;04;44;25
Arthur Brooks
For everything that I'm saying here today, use things good. It's abundance. It's freedom. This is America, but don't love them. Only love people because people are made to love and God's image and most importantly, worship God. Here's your formula. Use things. Love people. Worship God.

01;04;44;27 - 01;05;08;08
Arthur Brooks
Follow that formula as you leave here today from this great college. It will never steer you wrong. You'll begin a journey of love and excellence and truth. And you know what? It'll bring you the happiness that you deserve. God bless you on this great day. God bless Providence College and Go Friars.

01;05;08;08 - 01;05;17;21
Joe Carr
Thank you for listening to the Providence College Podcast today, a celebration of the class of 2024 for our producer, Chris Judge. I'm Joe Carr. Until next time.