Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Join NABR in partnership with Corp! Magazine for our CEO & Executive Thought Leadership Series, where Jennifer Kluge sits down with C-Suite Leaders to get their insight and expertise.
NABR is a service organization igniting greatness in companies and their people.
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:15
Jennifer
Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of CEO and Executive Thought Leadership. I am your host, Jennifer Glueck, and today we have two very special guests. Seems to be a pattern on the show lately. We have Aaron and Eric Brown from citing unlimited and outdoor Living Unlimited. Welcome, gentlemen.
00:00:21:21 - 00:00:22:02
Eric
Thank.
00:00:22:02 - 00:00:22:22
Aaron
You, thank you.
00:00:23:01 - 00:00:48:21
Jennifer
They are a family owned and operated business. Citing the limited was founded by their father, Jim Brown, over 34 years ago, both working part time to help pay for school. Aaron and Eric developed a passion for remodeling. Since then, a partnership was born between father and son duo and they developed the business. It's a pleasure to have you both on the program.
00:00:48:21 - 00:00:52:20
Jennifer
Those passions, man. You got to watch out for them right?
00:00:52:22 - 00:00:54:01
Aaron
So that's really great.
00:00:54:01 - 00:00:57:13
Eric
To be here today. Yeah, yeah. Good to be here.
00:00:57:15 - 00:01:10:17
Jennifer
So tell us, you know, tell our audience, you know, a brief overview of your business. I mean, we can kind of guess from the name, but in your own words, tell us what you do and give us a feel for the services you provide.
00:01:10:20 - 00:01:12:06
Aaron
You want to say exciting and limited first?
00:01:12:08 - 00:01:41:14
Eric
Sure. So, yeah. Father and two sons. Run operated business is how we started. Our dad raised us in the industry, taught us how to install siding, windows, roofing, doors, that stuff. So siding a limited was the was the first business that was established. That's what we're where we cut our teeth and everything from installed to customer service to production management, marketing like everything that that we're doing today, that's how we that's how we started.
00:01:41:16 - 00:02:04:08
Eric
And then it was about 20 years later that we started doing got into Hardscape Outdoor Living Unlimited. So the stuff outside of so the Siding Unlimited was siding, windows, roofing doors, the exterior of a house. And then we branched into the back yard, so to speak. With Outdoor Living Unlimited, you can shed some light on all you.
00:02:04:11 - 00:02:27:04
Aaron
Well, outdoor living. He didn't like Eric said. It just kind of hatched out of what we were doing. Right? We expanded the outdoor of the home into the backyard and, you know, is, you know, maybe ten, 12 years ago, really got things rolling with the hardscape, a lot of pavers, kitchens, fire pits, really popular here in Wisconsin, right.
00:02:27:04 - 00:02:42:09
Aaron
For the cooler, cooler fall evenings. Right. So we took that on. And it's in its growth has been fantastic for us. You know our team is just unbelievable in the projects that they create. And actually that come to fruition for our for our clients.
00:02:42:11 - 00:03:03:22
Jennifer
And you both being very humble in in Wisconsin, you're pretty well known. Your face is on television a lot. You have wonderful commercials that you do and infomercials and what have you. So people should recognize you. And it's it's really cool. I mean, I've seen some of the work that you've done and it's beautiful. Oh, just gorgeous homes.
00:03:03:22 - 00:03:24:12
Jennifer
And it's it's something very tangible that you can say, hey, I did that. That's to me that's a lot of fun. And, you know, family businesses are special. Not many of them make it to the next generation. So walk us through that process of, you know, trying to get money to go to school to oh my, oh my gosh, we have to do this.
00:03:24:12 - 00:03:39:04
Jennifer
We have a vision. We're going to take it to the next level for those and family businesses. Right now we're second generation family business. I think they can relate to your story. Do you want to just share a little bit about the why why you both took this?
00:03:39:06 - 00:04:09:18
Aaron
Well, I mean, I wrote all my college papers on running my my own construction business, right? I mean, we we both were working for our dad and we worked for some local remodelers and they were good operation. They were a good outfit. We just kind of were students of what they did. Right. And as as time went on and our our part time evolved, our work ethic that we got from not not just our father, but our mother as well, was just a tremendous work ethic.
00:04:09:20 - 00:04:22:17
Aaron
And I think you you just get you get a passion for things. And all of a sudden, next thing you know, remodeling is in your blood, right. So going to school and writing all my college papers now, they weren't written very well. They had a lot of red online papers.
00:04:22:21 - 00:04:26:01
Jennifer
We will ask your grade. It's okay, that the.
00:04:26:06 - 00:04:32:11
Aaron
The message was there that there was a lot of passion for for remodeling in just in our blood.
00:04:32:13 - 00:04:51:06
Eric
Yeah. Yeah. Same, you know, going through college, going through like when, when your when, when that's your extra spending cash, you know, and and you know money is a little bit of a motivator just to, to put some money in your pocket or, or, you know, get through college somewhat debt free. You know. Yeah. You're spending your time doing something.
00:04:51:08 - 00:05:12:18
Eric
And it just happened to be out working at somebody's house. Yeah. And so it, it didn't you know, we were raised around this. So it didn't be it wasn't necessarily a job for us. You know. It was it was easy. It was it was fun. You know, I mean it was get up in the morning and I think to some degree, contractors, we don't know anything different.
00:05:12:20 - 00:05:33:01
Eric
It's it's just kind of who we are. And mornings where, you know, might be 6:37 a.m. in the morning and we're, we're jumping in the truck, my dad, Aaron and myself all in the same truck and and all in the same cab. You know, it wasn't like an extended cab thing. We're all sitting in the front seat and the no air conditioning type thing, you know?
00:05:33:01 - 00:06:01:10
Eric
I mean, we're going to the job and and it's like. But that's that's the feel like that, you know, you you get close. You you you build your, your family camaraderie around that a little bit. And you know, so there's, there's the, you know, just the stuff outside of just the everyday normal. Like Aaron utilizing his college experience, you know, to gain more out of his college experience, he attached his experiences, his life experiences to it.
00:06:01:12 - 00:06:25:09
Eric
I remember going to college interviews, you know, you're getting your degree. You can't do this anymore. You can't. This was a summer job, right? And Milwaukee has a couple of major manufacturers, major corporations. One of them was Miller Brewing, and the other one was Kohl's department store here in Milwaukee that I sat down for both interviews, walked out of those interviews with, siding lead in a roofing or an a windows lead.
00:06:25:11 - 00:06:29:15
Jennifer
That being in the blood. That's fantastic. Well, good for you.
00:06:29:17 - 00:06:46:18
Eric
Yeah. The interviewer, the HR person, like they saw the resume. They have houses and they're asking me more questions about that. I left, I'm like, well that's a unique I don't know how they viewed the stations across the board to everybody they meet with. But that's when I felt like, you know what? This maybe this is my calling.
00:06:46:18 - 00:07:07:18
Eric
And and then that was kind of like the feel early on. And then it was like we looked at each other and we're like, all right, we've we've seen how other companies have failed in this industry. We can see how we can clean that type of stuff up. We also know our our potential capabilities and what we think we could do.
00:07:07:20 - 00:07:10:12
Eric
Now. Let's give it a shot and see where it takes us.
00:07:10:14 - 00:07:38:11
Jennifer
Well, it's taken you very far. You're both very, very successful. Let's just chat. You mentioned work ethic. Let's chat on that a little bit. Everybody's definition, of work ethic is very, very different and it's subjective. And I think, you know, social media has done a disservice to a younger generation of what, what success looks like and what it takes to be successful.
00:07:38:13 - 00:08:01:08
Jennifer
Now, you had the beauty of being mentored by your dad and seen firsthand the work that needs to happen. What advice would you give to young people that want to start their own business, or they're in a job in their they're reporting into an owner or what have you? How do you define work ethic and what advice would you give to them?
00:08:01:11 - 00:08:27:21
Aaron
I mean, that is that is just a great question because it's it can go on forever. I mean, this that could be the whole podcast in itself. You know, for us, our work ethic. And I'm going to use what Eric said 20 some years ago and ten years ago and two years ago. Right. You know, work ethic for us was Saturdays were where we were working Saturdays, you know, when when a lot of the guys were off playing, you know, a lot of guys our age were out having a good time.
00:08:27:21 - 00:08:44:12
Aaron
And Eric tells the story. Well, some of the guys were out on the jet skis and stuff like that. You know, we were we were working right. And even in the fall, I still remember, like, it's really comes full circle. The University of Wisconsin, we listen to the Badger games, and those would end at like 230, 3:00.
00:08:44:12 - 00:09:04:22
Aaron
That would be our workday. Time to get home, right and enjoy a little bit of the weekend away. It comes full circle. My daughter just graduated from the University Wisconsin, so a little bit extra meaning there for me. But, you know, trying to give advice to the younger generation about our industry or any other industry is just about passion and hard work.
00:09:05:03 - 00:09:27:04
Aaron
It's not easy, right? And there's, you know, there's a meme out there that shows the iceberg and there's only 10% of the iceberg floating at the top, and 90% of it is underneath. Right. And it's so true, you know, that you do have to work hard. You do have to make sacrifice and I think what you pointed out in the social media world, people want instant gratification.
00:09:27:06 - 00:09:28:15
Aaron
It's not there.
00:09:28:17 - 00:09:35:04
Jennifer
There's a whole generation that has been told that hard work is overrated.
00:09:35:06 - 00:09:57:07
Eric
Well, hard, hard work. Lately we kind of have to put it in perspective. And if we want to talk about work ethic, like, I mean, for us, for us, we were raised like, this was like, this was our work ethic was nose to the grindstone. But that doesn't have to be everybody's. And nowadays, I think hard work might mean something different to the younger generation.
00:09:57:09 - 00:10:14:01
Eric
And I think a lot of times it gets it can be confusing. I almost think like so many people say, well, do what you love. And it's like then you hear the stories of people that went out and did what they love, and they ended up not loving what they were that they loved. So much more. They love it anymore.
00:10:14:03 - 00:10:34:08
Eric
And it's almost like, and and let's put that in perspective for us. I didn't love rushing when I was 19 years old. Like I didn't like getting up on the top of a roof and tearing shingles off of my house, carrying those heavy shingles in a bucket and dumping it in a dumpster. Nobody loves that. But we were good at it, and we were good at the customer service.
00:10:34:08 - 00:10:57:20
Eric
So it's like, maybe the message isn't do something that you love. And even in today's day and age with with technology and what they can do with social media and they can make money doing social media, they can make money with video games, they can make money different ways that we didn't have to us. So maybe it's not necessarily do something that you love, but do something that you're good at and you can follow a passion with it.
00:10:57:22 - 00:11:19:07
Eric
Now, I didn't love roofing at 19 years old, but I did have a passion for it because I knew what it could bring us. It could bring us customer like happy customers. It could. It's a hard day's, like there's still value in a hard day's work. And that and that. We, we, we felt that every day like that's that's our passion for coming into play.
00:11:19:09 - 00:11:38:08
Eric
And when we started, we were doing something that we were good at. We could develop a passion that came easy for us. You know, it kind of came from our father, but we had fun every day. And I'm not saying like there was days that, I mean, there were days that were harder than others, for sure. But we had fun every day.
00:11:38:10 - 00:11:51:12
Eric
If it wasn't that, we'd take our break and go to eat at McDonald's. We had fun like so. We had the passion. We had fun. It was day in and day out. We had the consistency. Like that was all I would say is, but but follow what you're.
00:11:51:14 - 00:11:52:10
Jennifer
Said.
00:11:52:12 - 00:11:53:12
Eric
And see what happens.
00:11:53:14 - 00:12:04:16
Jennifer
So let's first talk more about a family business. You know, generation one. Pause the concrete I'm going to use building metaphor right.
00:12:04:18 - 00:12:04:23
Eric
Here we.
00:12:04:23 - 00:12:06:24
Aaron
Go. Yeah let's play along.
00:12:07:01 - 00:12:34:09
Jennifer
That's generation one. Pause the concrete. They might even build the first floor of the build. They I like to say the second generation builds up or out from there. Describe how you had built up and out and the values or the appreciation of the ground floor being built, or the original foundation being built. Can you describe that for us?
00:12:34:11 - 00:12:40:03
Aaron
I can go from my perspective. Right. It was we're going to we're going to get a baseline down. Right.
00:12:40:05 - 00:12:41:03
Eric
Our father didn't.
00:12:41:03 - 00:13:08:19
Aaron
Do a lot of outside advertising and marketing. Right. He he was more of a, you know, like a lot of people, he was just kind of a solo guy going about his business. Didn't do a lot of the promotion of the business and stuff like that. Enter, you know, Eric and myself who I had some production skills and some a lot of retail skills that I had acquired as well, and working part time and other stuff as well.
00:13:08:21 - 00:13:28:19
Aaron
But what we did is we really got things going right. We kind of put the gas pedal down and it wasn't always it wasn't always roses in the family owned business, there were times when, you know, our father wasn't thrilled with some of our marketing spend that, that, that we took on. Right.
00:13:28:19 - 00:13:33:01
Jennifer
And Eric but that must have been a fun day.
00:13:33:03 - 00:13:50:02
Aaron
Oh, that was it. I could I could still hear I could still see my dad turn around looking at me and just throwing out a few. Not much we're spending and I think he wanted me to I think he wanted me to be like, yeah, that's too much. We gotta we got to knock this off. Instead. I'm like, yeah, gas pedal down.
00:13:50:06 - 00:14:01:23
Aaron
Right? Like we got to keep going, you know? So that really the foundation was that work ethic and getting a lot of the knowledge of the industry. And then, the marketing, the production just started, started flowing from there.
00:14:02:04 - 00:14:24:21
Eric
Yeah. Not to beat up on our dad too much, but but that's, that's where his comfort level was. He was our bookkeeper and, and he saw the numbers expense. And from a marketing standpoint, it was you know, I was just let's push and I know I wasn't in that room when Aaron and my dad talked about not me, Aaron backing me up and saying, no, we have to do this.
00:14:24:23 - 00:14:41:10
Eric
On the flip side, Aaron comes with a lot of leadership and and then even leadership with the production team. And that was another aspect that, you know, our our dad was really a sole proprietor for a while. And then it was him on.
00:14:41:12 - 00:14:43:11
Jennifer
That master out there.
00:14:43:12 - 00:15:05:23
Eric
My sister Aaron was looking to hire a couple of guys and and or just one, actually the first one, let's, let's not jump too far ahead. But we we're just looking to hire one guy that was going to help us out and, and make us all more efficient. And that was, you know, like all right. Yeah. Yeah. So he taught us this, like how to do everything.
00:15:06:00 - 00:15:18:24
Eric
And he was also our bookkeeper. So you're talking about the foundation, but you know what it was it was nice that he gave us a little a little friction. But once we got over that and once we got a little bit more of.
00:15:19:01 - 00:15:27:14
Jennifer
Say, a little friction, once we more a little friction, that's very normal. Well, he said.
00:15:27:16 - 00:15:29:09
Aaron
Sorry words. Words were said.
00:15:29:11 - 00:15:47:13
Eric
Yeah, it was, it was. Yeah. We had to tell her that. No this is what we're doing. Well, once we got over that hump and we and we spent a little bit more money and we saw some, some, some investment dollars coming back or once, once we, we brought on a couple of these guys who are still in the company today.
00:15:47:18 - 00:16:08:00
Eric
Those became our dads, some of our dads, favorite people, you know, just in life in general. So it was it was getting over that, that the other foundation was, was built but growing that getting, getting, getting buy in for, for all three of us was a little tricky. And once we once I got that, then it gave us the ability to keep moving forward.
00:16:08:02 - 00:16:30:14
Jennifer
I wish all businesses had the radical candor of the family business appear, will tell a kid whatever they need to hear, right? In many instances, especially if it's a family business. I'm sure the two of you tell each other what you need to hear, but you know, for those listening, there's value in that. You don't have growth without conflict.
00:16:30:18 - 00:16:47:08
Jennifer
How did the two of you handle conflict with each other? My, I don't want to start anything here, but, you know, you're 50, 50 partners in this business and and you have a vision and you have a vision and it might not always mesh. How do you handle.
00:16:47:10 - 00:17:11:23
Eric
25 years ago that that question might garner a different response? No. We we early early on, I think I think early on we developed a mutual respect, healing, sharing what we both can do. I really I'll say that I've said this day one, I'll say it, you know, now and every day in between. Aaron Aaron has a natural leadership with people like he just has.
00:17:11:24 - 00:17:41:07
Eric
It just naturally he he has the energy. And and I think that's where his passion is, is just natural leadership. He had it back when as far as long as I can remember. But when I when I say like I saw him, we were baseball family. When I saw him lead baseball teams that he played on. You know, I was always the younger brother going to the games and watching the games, but I saw him on the field and I could see that, you know, when it came to business, stuff like, you know, it just it just comes out of him that naturally.
00:17:41:07 - 00:18:00:04
Eric
And so you have that mutual respect and, and you just you don't want to get in the way of that. Like that would be a hindrance in what we're trying to accomplish. So you got to we look at it, we're, we're both good at and and we support that. And we've done that over the years. And we I think we've done it really well.
00:18:00:06 - 00:18:20:19
Eric
We've done it really well when we needed to do it really well. And I think, you know, family businesses aren't easy. And and a lot of them fail. And, and it causes rifts and it causes big issues. And families like business business models that feel like if we were just business partners, we could split and be mad at each other and both go our separate ways.
00:18:20:19 - 00:18:41:02
Eric
But but not only is families different, we can see a lot of. So I think there's a lot of what we find. We find where we can respect each other, you know? And then the other part of it is, is that like, I mean, it was not that long ago. I mean, you mentioned earlier in the podcast, you mentioned earlier that we're on TV like we're up and we are we're on TV, we're on the radio like all of that costs money.
00:18:41:02 - 00:18:50:14
Eric
And I, I handle the marketing budget and some of the marketing direction, and I get nervous like, oh man, our spend is already pretty high. I, you know.
00:18:50:14 - 00:18:53:23
Jennifer
I know you taking the role of Dan on. Right.
00:18:54:00 - 00:19:01:09
Eric
Well, I, I'm battling my own demons. Yeah. Well I don't know if I can go back to Aaron and be like, what are they talking about to second.
00:19:01:11 - 00:19:08:06
Jennifer
Yeah. Aaron do you. And she, he told you that you're a natural leader. What is he.
00:19:08:08 - 00:19:25:20
Aaron
He's he's just he's giving me that compliment before and it's it's it's great to hear, you know, you're always looking at yourself in the mirror when you're a business owner to see what you can do and be better at and everything like that. But the one thing that, that, that reflects in the mirror is a lot of him, too.
00:19:25:20 - 00:19:50:03
Aaron
And he and he needs to be appreciated for what his leadership skills are and what he brings to the table. And, you know, the the fundamentals of the business and the family business. One of the reasons we're able to take everything to the next level at my estimation, is, you know, yeah, I agree to the marketing budget and then then the next plus and, and and the next add on and and stuff.
00:19:50:03 - 00:20:06:01
Aaron
But it's what we need number one. Right. It's really what we need. Number two he's passionate about it. If I ask him a question about it he's got an answer. It's not like he just goes, oh, I just want to spend $62,000 on this, right? He's like, he's got his facts right. He just he brings it to the table.
00:20:06:01 - 00:20:25:14
Aaron
But the reality is, is for us, the way I see it is we agree on like 99% of what happens. Right. And then we always have an idea stay. And the ideas, they just don't always go as smooth. Like, here's an idea, here's an idea. But the 99% is a solid foundation. You know, of that. You know, getting to that pinnacle.
00:20:25:14 - 00:20:40:11
Aaron
Right? So it takes a lot of the stress out, right, when you know that you're both striving for the same thing, right? You're right. You're both going for the top. So and that's what keeps it fun. Yeah. And you know, and it's the two of.
00:20:40:11 - 00:20:42:20
Jennifer
You against everyone else. Right.
00:20:42:22 - 00:21:00:24
Eric
What's what's funny is you mentioned ideas day and I'll just I want to run like kind of the like the feel sometimes with ideas they like is like you throw out some ideas but like, I don't know if like, I might throw out an idea and it might be like, like, hey, this is my idea, but I'm not like in my mind, I'm not married to it.
00:21:00:24 - 00:21:18:21
Eric
I'm just throwing out an idea like he might think, how much passion does he have with this idea? Like how much what comes out of that? And there might be one I throw out there that I am passionate about. You just got to learn that they're they're just ideas and see what them like. He might throw out an idea and and it might be something that he's passionate about.
00:21:18:21 - 00:21:34:05
Eric
I don't want to say the wrong thing, but then if he throws on an idea that he's not like, it's not like you can. So those those are fun. They like those are fun. Just because it's like we learn a lot. I think we've learned a lot based on the ideas that we've thrown at each other over the years.
00:21:34:07 - 00:21:42:19
Eric
Yeah. To be like, all right, which which ones are are they important ideas? And are we married to those ideas. And the other person will always know that.
00:21:42:24 - 00:22:29:00
Jennifer
Well let's talk let's talk about some of the issues that like pop up this business. You know, it's been an interesting five years for everybody. You're you're obviously in an industry that has materials. There's inflation, there's tariffs. There was a pandemic, you know. So let's talk about monumental moments. If you can each give one example of a monumental moment in the business, whether it's interest rates or what have you, that have affected your growth because you have grown, what would that story be and what lesson can you give to others about once you were on the other side of that?
00:22:29:00 - 00:22:32:11
Jennifer
Looking back at it and you want to go first.
00:22:32:13 - 00:22:36:14
Aaron
You want me to go first? I was going to turn the hair. I need more time to think about that one.
00:22:36:18 - 00:23:03:00
Eric
Well, you have you have monumental, monumental moments like you have, but but monumental moments. You're going to have your positives and negatives, the ones that are and I would say like a big growth moment for us, I think. I think one of the like was probably 2009, 2010, 2011, like that time, like as far as where everything in the economy that happens outside actually was affecting us quite a bit.
00:23:03:06 - 00:23:05:21
Eric
It was affecting the consumer, which affected us.
00:23:05:23 - 00:23:06:21
Jennifer
Right then.
00:23:06:21 - 00:23:27:16
Eric
And then they and then there was a tax credit that came out that may have been great for us, may have not have been great for us. We don't know it happened. So, we have to respond to that. I say that because what it did was it kept windows sales for us because it gave a tax credit for if you spend this much.
00:23:27:18 - 00:23:50:08
Eric
And what the effect was is that it got everybody on board with buying windows that year, but they would only go so far. They would only go as much as they were limited. They limited themselves because they would only go so far. We only have to spend this much to get this credit. And and so that that was a was a great I mean, it brought in a lot of names, a lot of people.
00:23:50:13 - 00:24:08:22
Eric
But it changed our, the way we do business because it was it took away a lot of big jobs because I think a lot of people that would have wanted more work were, you know, the tax credit, put it at a ceiling. So what we don't know is we don't know if it doesn't happen. Do we have the amount of people buying windows.
00:24:08:22 - 00:24:31:10
Eric
And so working through those three years, like one of the things we weren't set up for all almost like 100% small jobs, you know, like that, that changed how we made money. It took a lot of the bigger jobs out of the equation. So we had to we had to adjust there, you know, on a personal level, like it brought our incomes down.
00:24:31:11 - 00:24:55:04
Eric
Know like now we're fighting for for the business, not just we're fighting to keep the business going, but we're also fighting, you know, just keep keep our families going and stuff like that. And I think that moment right there and then as we were trying to come out of like 2011, 2012, now we're trying to catch up, play catch up, you know, so getting through that time period for us, I.
00:24:55:06 - 00:24:58:10
Jennifer
I think we rough for a lot of people. Yeah.
00:24:58:10 - 00:25:18:19
Eric
Yeah a lot of a lot of people. There's a lot of personal growth for us, a lot of business growth. It's set us up for the future in a way we weren't. We didn't know, like we weren't expecting that to happen. And right before that happened, we were in really good position to grow. So it was really it really changed directions for us.
00:25:18:19 - 00:25:21:01
Eric
Yeah. That time period.
00:25:21:03 - 00:25:39:18
Jennifer
That's what I hear from a lot of entrepreneurs, is they look back at something that was challenging and they had some sort of surprised epiphany from it. And you just described that it taught you to look at it a little differently than you thought you needed to look at it. Erin, are you are you ready?
00:25:39:20 - 00:25:59:11
Aaron
Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. The reality is, is, is the monumental moments are really it's the same. It's the same lesson over and over, and it's the same moment over and over for us is for us to work on the company, not in the company. Eric just mentioned in that time frame, we went out and knocked out more roofs, right?
00:25:59:11 - 00:26:15:00
Aaron
We have our roofing crew, but we needed to knock out more roofs. Eric and I went back on the on roofs and knocked them out to bring money back into the company. Right. It was a tough it was a challenging time for us, but it just comes back down to where Eric talked about earlier in the podcast.
00:26:15:00 - 00:26:34:23
Aaron
I, you know, just because you're you really like doing something doesn't mean you're good at it or you're going to be good at it. Right? And the one compliment we get is not only can we install and do all this stuff, we're actually really good business owners. You know, when you hear that from your, your banker, your, you know, your commercial banker, that says a lot, right?
00:26:35:03 - 00:26:53:14
Aaron
But that doesn't happen unless we, you know, we put all these blocks together and built from that foundation up. But that that right there is, is is the monumental thing for us as it was when we really switched gears. Now, Eric, we're still going to do a service. I'll go still do a service and help a homeowner out because we're still all client based, client facing.
00:26:53:14 - 00:26:58:14
Aaron
Right. But really it's it's working on the company and not in it as much.
00:26:58:17 - 00:27:05:09
Jennifer
That's wonderful. And the fact that you could get back on the roof is also incredible.
00:27:05:11 - 00:27:24:10
Eric
What we're good at it. It's still not fun. You it's the camaraderie. That's what he. When he said that I, I still remember like your feel on that one. Hey I think for cash flow we need to knock out a few roofs. And I'm thinking is there anything else we can do. Okay. Oh well you know what we would we we the pain reliever.
00:27:24:10 - 00:27:25:04
Jennifer
Right? Right.
00:27:25:07 - 00:27:46:13
Eric
You know, when you're in our early 20s, that's what we did, you know. So then we weren't that far removed from that. So it was get back out there. And it took us a couple maybe two roughs for our bodies to acclimate once our bodies acclimated. It was like, all right, let's knock out. And then once we did a handful of them to get cash flow back up, I think we're looking at each other like, should we knock out 1 or 2 more like we do?
00:27:46:13 - 00:28:02:10
Eric
Go a little further. You know, I mean, it was like, so that's that's the big part from I mean, just going back to rough and then all of that. But, but but yeah, it was, it was we know we know when we have to get after we get out, you know. And we know how, you know, over the years.
00:28:02:12 - 00:28:20:24
Eric
You know Aaron Aaron's speaking on the day to day like monuments from a day to day perspective and how much we've learned and grown. You know, I was thinking of that one moment. But both of them work together. Got us through. You're talking about the last five years. And it was like, you know what? You learned our history from our history.
00:28:20:24 - 00:28:39:18
Eric
We've learned that can't change a lot of that stuff. We can't change. We can't change how production, how our suppliers are going to produce windows or roofing products or siding. But we can't change that. The best we can do is look a customer in the eye and tell them the truth and tell them this is where we're at.
00:28:39:20 - 00:28:58:11
Eric
We're not going to give up on you. We're not giving up on the contract. We're not giving up on our team. We're we're going to stick through this. We're going to see it through. Our job is to manage that process. Other company we saw their companies. They they had their their business. And they ran and got a bunch of people to to get it done real fast.
00:28:58:13 - 00:29:26:02
Eric
And then they lost their key employees, you know. All right, here we got all the material. Let's knock it out. Well, we had to pace ourselves so that at the end, whenever we came, whenever there's this finish line, you know, whatever the production pulled it. All of that finish line is that we're coming out and we actually have Aaron was talking to one of our one of our sales guys and one of our lead installers, and they were telling Aaron, like, we didn't even feel it.
00:29:26:04 - 00:29:37:13
Eric
Like we didn't feel a downturn. We didn't feel the effects, you know, because we were able to manage it the right way. We were able to manage it the right way this time because we already went through it. You know, 15 years.
00:29:37:13 - 00:29:39:23
Jennifer
Ago, the muscle memory.
00:29:40:00 - 00:29:42:00
Eric
Right? Exactly.
00:29:42:02 - 00:29:48:09
Aaron
Yes. You start doing this, you're like, we're not going on roofs anymore, you know, no more. Let's figure this out.
00:29:48:12 - 00:29:50:05
Jennifer
That's great. That's great.
00:29:50:07 - 00:29:51:24
Eric
We really need them now.
00:29:52:03 - 00:30:14:11
Jennifer
Let's let's shift gears here and do a couple rapid fire questions. We'd like to get to know you better as a human. What makes you tick, so to speak. And to take some of the scary this away of being the boss. Right. Do you have. Eric, let's start with you. What daily rituals do you have? A rapid fire that keep you motivated and focused?
00:30:14:13 - 00:30:18:20
Eric
Oh daily rituals. Get out of bed. Let's try with that one.
00:30:18:21 - 00:30:21:07
Jennifer
What's the first thing you do when you get out of bed?
00:30:21:08 - 00:30:37:24
Eric
I think daily rituals. I mean, I get up, I get a good breakfast, then, you know, I don't. I don't miss that. I get a good breakfast, I get my protein. And, like that type of stuff. Then I go through my emails. You know, I want to make sure I didn't miss anything from the day before. The night before.
00:30:38:01 - 00:30:58:23
Eric
Double check. You know, stuff that comes through. Then it's then I get into the office, or I go to wherever I'm wherever I might be called on it. You know, it's it's checking the schedule. We we get pulled around quite a bit now. So, I mean, it used to be the daily ritual of, of when I was 19, 20 years old, the dad walking in to the bedroom.
00:30:58:23 - 00:31:24:01
Eric
Are you coming to work today? I like, like being browbeaten, you know. Well, yep. I'm coming to work today. But now, now it's, you know, it's check the schedule and it's like, all right, where, where do I need to be? Where, you know, where am I? Because sometimes it's meeting with one of our marketing representatives. Maybe it's a job a job site visit, but it's it's, you know, just staying on schedule and checking the schedule and then end of the day type stuff.
00:31:24:03 - 00:31:42:07
Eric
I think in the past it was always really hard to end the day. I think you bring your home, your work home with you. It's this top of mind, you know, and you carry that all the way into the night. And I think now I've gotten a lot better. And I think family as, as has, has helped the ton.
00:31:42:07 - 00:31:59:07
Eric
But you know, my wife having kids, they're they're now in college. But having gone through raising a couple a couple of kids like with sports and and their activities and everything, you know, you have to stop work at some point. And I think.
00:31:59:09 - 00:32:03:15
Jennifer
It's a good step work. It's it's a nice structure. Right.
00:32:03:17 - 00:32:35:13
Eric
Yeah. Absolutely. So now it's it's, it's but it's but your mind still can still linger. But I can choose what I, what I look at I can choose the text. I can choose the email. We've got great people around us to support what we're doing. We support our people. But they support us. I can send an email to one of the guys, like, all of that stuff that we've done to set ourselves up has helped, you know, but to the point where, you know, what it's like daily rituals, like I think of now, it's I can end the day.
00:32:35:15 - 00:32:44:16
Eric
And I think ending the day when I need to has given me the chance to refresh for the next day. And I think that's that's a big part of it. So that we can do.
00:32:44:16 - 00:32:57:10
Jennifer
That is really hard for entrepreneurs with that have passion to reset. Okay, I need to put the end here so that I can reset for the next day. You're in.
00:32:57:12 - 00:33:04:10
Aaron
That. But and he's and he's full of it though because I still get text messages at 830 and 930 at night with ideas.
00:33:04:12 - 00:33:06:05
Eric
Well, he's on a roll.
00:33:06:07 - 00:33:07:05
Aaron
No, I was.
00:33:07:05 - 00:33:08:18
Jennifer
Like, if you're like me and.
00:33:08:18 - 00:33:18:16
Eric
You don't answer all, you know, we're still I mean, we're still creatures of habit. I think about things that certain, but but my boys are at school now, so now it's it might be 8:00.
00:33:18:19 - 00:33:23:11
Jennifer
To 5:30 a.m., emails and 1:00 am ideas.
00:33:23:13 - 00:33:27:18
Eric
Well, the other part is I get forgetful sometimes. So now I gotta get those ideas out.
00:33:27:21 - 00:33:44:09
Jennifer
It's here's got to silence this phone. Let me let me ask you this again. Is have you read a book or heard a speaker or done anything out there that inspires you? Is there a human in your life that inspires you and keeps you motivated day in, day out?
00:33:44:10 - 00:34:11:07
Aaron
Oh well. This is as far as a book goes. First of all, I love every speaker right? And I can't get a little nugget from anybody, right? So it you know, it could be an hour long and 58 minutes of it is just like, ho hum. You know, you're reaching for your energy drink or coffee and then there's a two minutes right in that two minutes they might hit a nugget that just propels you into something else.
00:34:11:07 - 00:34:37:20
Aaron
But as far as a book, one of my sales reps gave me a book a couple of years ago, The Millionaire Next Door, right. And there's so many lessons in there about life, right? And not judging the book by the cover. Right? And if you read it, the other thing is, is it really encapsulates a lot of what I do, you know, in so many different facets.
00:34:37:20 - 00:34:56:01
Aaron
Right? So, you know, you think, oh, the Millionaire Next door and you just think it's all about money, right? But it's all just like us. And how you can see different people. Right. And and it's, you know, just briefly for those that, that, that haven't read it, there's, there's people that live this lavish lifestyle that don't have any money.
00:34:56:01 - 00:35:13:09
Aaron
And then there's people that live a really low profile that have all the money in the world. One has a 25 year old car and has millions of dollars in the bank. Right. And then the other one has the $250,000 car that has not it doesn't have a, you know, so you can't really, you know, judge the judge.
00:35:13:09 - 00:35:34:11
Aaron
People in that regard, you treat them all with respect, you know, just not knowing their their path in life. And, I mean, the book goes into so much detail and maybe not necessarily do's and don'ts, but here's a scenario that that may play out. So I really love that book. I really connected with it years ago, and now there's other editions that came out.
00:35:34:11 - 00:35:39:12
Aaron
But it's it really is fascinating to me where I'll go back and I'll just read a chapter here and there.
00:35:39:15 - 00:36:04:17
Jennifer
Well, I should mention before we end today that your company has been honored as the best and brightest company to work for, both at a local level and a national level. And, you know, that shows the type of leaders that you truly are. So lesson with this what's the most rewarding part of being a business owner and leading people.
00:36:04:20 - 00:36:19:06
Aaron
When they thank you for everything that we've done for that? Right. And it's like, look at everything that they've done for us. Yeah, right. We had a salesman that retired from us. Like, it's hard because we're still young, right?
00:36:19:08 - 00:36:19:15
Jennifer
Yeah.
00:36:19:20 - 00:36:34:16
Aaron
And she's still young, but we actually had a salesman, you know, retire and just, you know, thanked us. And we were like, thank you for everything that you've done. So people thank us and and tell us how they've helped them in their life. Is, is that's a one of the touching moment.
00:36:34:17 - 00:36:43:21
Jennifer
And isn't it shocking what they tell you because you don't think it's a big deal. But to them it was so huge, right.
00:36:43:23 - 00:37:00:23
Eric
Well, like a situation like that, you know, you never, you know, whatever whatever you go into, whether you're hiring or, you know, you're bringing people on, you're growing a company like you want it to end well. Like that's that's the ultimate thing. Like nobody the ones that don't end well, that's those are stressful. Those are what nobody wants to be in that room when that's happening.
00:37:01:00 - 00:37:26:20
Eric
It's life. It's part of business. So the scenario where we brought on a guy and 18 years later he retires and you know, you know, says like says thank you. And we're thanking him, you know, and plus the way the way that whole retirement set up to make it happen like, like there was a lot of like for the ease, you know, sales.
00:37:26:22 - 00:37:48:09
Eric
So it's not like the day it ends here. Hey, I'm retiring and everything is done. He actually saw all of his jobs. He wanted to see all of his jobs come through. And so we weren't going to end his career without him seeing other jobs finish, you know. So. So yeah, it's a slow it's a slow exit but a mutual respect.
00:37:48:09 - 00:38:15:01
Eric
And I think, I think the the rewarding part for me ultimately and again, this answer would definitely be different 25 years ago. But it's seeing how we could take a vision and whatever we do or whatever, like citing a limit and Outdoor Living Unlimited has done it has changed. It has changed. People. So I'm piggybacking what Aaron just said, but that's that's the reality.
00:38:15:03 - 00:38:36:01
Eric
And I think 25 years ago it would have been let's see if we can grow and make this thing is whatever we want, as big as a big, big whatever size, like all of that, like, and see what comes of it. And now that we've gotten to a point where we actually have an established like a couple of established businesses, they're they're no joke.
00:38:36:01 - 00:39:08:05
Eric
They're they're solid companies, respected in our in our area, respected nationally with with best and brightest, which is fantastic, but also with some of our suppliers, you know, that are out there pellet timber tech. But what we've done with like from a people standpoint, like inside our company with, with the employees, like walking up and down the hallway saying good morning, saying hi, getting that genuine response back, you know, stopping out at a customer's house, even the difficult ones.
00:39:08:07 - 00:39:31:21
Eric
And you can talk through the process and find logic and come to, you know what this is? This is how it is, and this is why. But doing all the right things and then seeing the end results on everything, you know, I love I love our end results, the pictures, the videos, the drone footage, all of that. Because take any one of them and it's a really cool project.
00:39:31:23 - 00:39:47:11
Eric
And the amount that goes into that is not just the installers, which is a big part of it, but it's the office team, it's the sales team, it's the whole company coming together to, you know, create that, that, that, that final outcome. And the customer.
00:39:47:13 - 00:39:50:09
Jennifer
Yeah. And just look at all come together.
00:39:50:11 - 00:40:11:05
Eric
Right. But then then the community, the community efforts that are that are going on, you know, we just we did a walk for all timers a couple of weeks ago. We've but we've we've expanded our business in the Madison. We've, we do donations like children's Hospital. We do we do the book. We do a book donation, a book drive for children's.
00:40:11:05 - 00:40:34:21
Eric
I mean, just all of that stuff that has, you know, just kind of it's just all snowballed. That's that's very rewarding in our business. And we're very blessed to be able to experience this because that's, like I said, what we're doing today, not all of it was the vision 25 years ago, but it's really created something really cool that we could do more cool things with it.
00:40:34:23 - 00:41:00:12
Jennifer
Well said. Well, thank you both Eric and Erin for being on the program. Congratulations on your success. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens in the next five years as you bring the ideas and you bring the leadership in those 5 a.m. text, you guys are going to just keep on shining bright. So please do that. Keep shining bright and thank you so much for being on the program.
00:41:00:14 - 00:41:01:16
Eric
Well thank you Jennifer.
00:41:01:16 - 00:41:04:06
Aaron
Thank you Jennifer. It's been a pleasure.
00:41:04:08 - 00:41:08:22
Jennifer
You guys are fun. All right everyone, that's our show for today. We'll see you next time.