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This Dental Specific Podcast is dedicated to the Dental "Entrepreneur" Michael Dinsio, Founder of Next Level Consultants, delivers #TRUTH when starting up a dental practice. From the very first step to getting the keys of a dental practice, Michael shares his raw & unscripted playbook with you. Not only does this podcast provide you with "What To Do" but more importantly "What Not To Do". With over over 15 years of experience & over 150 past clients, Michael delivers an educational and informative program in a real and genuine way. Start w/ Episode 01 - as we go through a STEP by STEP process.
Startup Unscripted.
The questions you have with
the truths you need to hear.
Help doctors get into
practice the way they want
to get into practice.
Hashtag truth.
That's why we put it out there.
What we want to do is we
want to bring truth to the startup game.
And now your host, Michael D'Incio.
You're muted.
All right.
All right, guys.
Welcome.
Welcome back.
This is Mike D'Incio with
Next Level Consultants and
Startup Unscripted.
We're back on another
episode of Dental Kids Week.
So this whole week is about
kiddos and talking to
pediatric dentists and
startups and all kinds of fun stuff.
So thanks again for the
guests who I'm going to
introduce here in a second.
But real quick, guys,
a couple of announcements.
So Supermouth sponsored this week.
I've got
some Supermouth gear all up in here.
It's kind of a tight squeeze
in this basically closet
that I'm living in right now.
I've got the t-shirt on,
I've got the things.
And I know my guests can
talk a little bit about Supermouth,
but they sponsored this whole week.
It's a great program for
kiddos and even now adults to get on.
They've got all kinds of
options and I think you
guys should definitely check them out.
We're gonna have some details.
below for you guys to check out.
And then also if you hang a
little bit towards the end
of this episode, we'll,
we'll play a commercial.
Another little housekeeping
thing that I'm letting
everybody know that we are
consolidating brands.
So right now startup
unscripted is the brand
that you all know and subscribe to.
We have another one called
dental acquisition unscripted.
Both of those brands are
going to be consolidated to
what we call one channel unscripted.
one brand and it's going to
be dental unscripted.
So move your subscription
over to dental unscripted.
Soon we will have all of
these episodes for startups
acquisitions and practice
management tips.
And that'll be on one
channel called dental unscripted.
So enough with the announcement.
Sorry guys.
I had to get all that out.
Otherwise the producers
would get mad at me.
But without further ado,
I have a special couple on today.
One of our clients is,
and they're special to me
because they are in the
weeds right now they are
literally within weeks from
openings um well not really
but it probably feels like
it months from their
opening day and they are
literally grinding right
now as we speak and uh and
it's just a special thing
because they were our
clients and we had a blast
coaching them so dr mark
van duker and his wonderful
wife evelyn van duker
welcome to the show you two
thank you michael
Okay,
so these guys just went through the
entire process of doing a startup.
And like I said, they are in the weeds.
So we're about three months, four months.
What are we in, guys?
How many months in now?
Two months?
Yeah, only about two months.
Okay, so two, three months.
I was thinking three months,
but two months in.
And so they are literally
grinding right now to try
to find every patient they
can on the street.
They're probably shaking
hands and kissing babies
and doing all the things.
But before we even get to
any of that stuff,
I'd like to ask either one
of you and you guys,
play off of each other,
try to figure out who's
going to answer what question.
But, um, I, I,
I want to ask the very first
question to actually dark doctor.
Why,
why did you want to get into business
for yourself?
Like what,
what was the driving force
behind you doing a startup?
Cause startups are challenging.
Acquisitions are challenging too,
but startups are challenging.
Why did you want to go into
business just in general,
general question, softball here,
start us off.
Yeah, I think in general,
one of the things about
dentistry that's unique is
you still have the
opportunity to build equity,
unlike a lot of other
healthcare professions right now.
So the idea is sort of like
owning a house and paying off a mortgage.
It's like the more
Like the harder you work and
put into this practice,
you can actually get that
back on the back end other
than like your salary,
but you can actually build
like a retirement through your office.
So I think for me,
just building that equity
and then also being able to
do the dentistry that I want,
like kind of the style I like doing it.
Um, really helps versus, you know,
when you go into other offices,
I want to keep, you know,
the owner happy and,
and I've had really great associate jobs.
I can't complain.
I've had really good bosses,
but just being able to kind
of take what I learned from
each office and then put it
into my own kind of the
style that I like.
I love that.
And, and,
and one thing we didn't get out
of the way here was doc and, and,
and Evelyn, what,
what your guys' backgrounds are.
Cause I'm about to ask the
same question to Evelyn and
what you all don't know in the,
in the audience is Evans is
an accountant CPA.
That's where she comes from.
Her, her whole world is, is numbers.
So this is an awesome pairing,
which is exactly why I
wanted to interview you guys.
You got doctor husband,
and then you've got wife
who's all about the numbers.
So this is perfect.
Yeah.
Evelyn, do you, is it the same answer?
Like, as his wife, partner, and spouse,
like, is it the same answer there?
Like,
why for you as his partner in this
crazy situation?
It's very similar answers.
And on top of that,
we have a two and
four-year-old I just always admire.
Like,
I don't know if it's the right comparison,
but I really love when, like,
there's a family raised on the farm,
right?
You put your kids to work,
you always work together,
you have the same goal.
And I just really love that concept.
And because he's a pediatric dentist,
And I just feel it's the perfect,
perfect business
opportunity so that we can
work together and our kids
maybe in the future can
work with us as well.
So that's why.
Yeah.
Well, I I love that touch, Evelyn,
because you're you're absolutely right.
Like what we don't talk a
lot about on the show is kind of like.
that legacy you're passing
on to your little ones I
have little ones you guys
have little ones I think
that's also why we
connected but um them
seeing you start a business
and seeing that hard work
that you're I mean they
probably don't really
realize it right now but
they will someday and so I
think that is totally cool
family-owned business
kiddos watching you guys do
it so that's that's
definitely something to be
admired and and appreciated
I I totally feel that
Let's take a back step real quick.
Doc, where did you go to school?
Where did you get your specialty?
Give me a little bit about your journey,
how many years you associated.
Just tell me a little bit
about the journey that led
up to you getting in ownership.
Yeah, so I did dental school in Seattle.
So University of Washington,
kind of grew up in Washington State,
Gig Harbor area.
Um, and then did my residency.
I wanted to travel.
So obviously Evelyn and I
were married at the time
and she and I were both
ready for kind of a switch,
like switching it up.
So when we were applying for residencies,
we ended up going to the East coast.
So we went to children's
national hospital in Washington, DC,
which was a really fun place.
I feel like I grew a lot.
We both grew a lot,
like on a personal level,
just totally going to a brand new area,
like family and friends.
So did that residency for two years.
You came back together, not separated.
So that's, that's it.
Yeah.
It was, it was intense.
Like just uprooting ourselves.
There's a lot of stress
there moving across the
country with our son who
was like nine months old at the time,
but we, yeah, it was crazy.
So we did that.
And then broke baby, you know, together.
How,
how many years were you married at
that point or just together?
Um, we've been together like,
Five.
We were together from the
beginning of dental school.
So like we were together for
for dental school.
It's like four or five years.
OK.
But still,
I would say I'm still with me
because being broke and
moving us around for that
long while she's working
and just supporting the family was crazy.
So, yeah, kudos for everyone tonight.
jumping ship on that.
But at that point we felt pretty confident,
like, you know, we can do this.
Like we can go to other places.
Like we don't have to just
solely stay like where I grew up,
you know, or,
or just stay like in Seattle.
So we moved back to
Washington cause that's where family was.
And I associated there at a
great practice for a year.
And then we felt like we
were ready to try something new.
And, um,
I mean, Evelyn,
you can share what ended up happening.
Mark, that's perfect.
So you graduated from UW Dental School.
You went over to Washington,
not Washington State, but Washington,
D.C.,
did your pedo training there and
then moved back, correct?
And then associated for how many years?
I didn't catch that part.
So I associated for one year.
One year.
And then, well, it's kind of crazy,
but we all got COVID.
And we're like,
let's go travel now that
we've all had COVID and
we're not afraid of flights
because this was back when
COVID was a big deal.
So we flew to visit friends in Arizona.
And Evelyn's like, I want to live here.
She liked the sun.
Yeah, so we...
we kind of, um, that's when we, you know,
I took a new associate job
in Arizona and we started
getting serious about the startup.
Yeah, no, that's a perfect.
And Evelyn,
give me your background and
kind of your plug in.
I,
I'd love to hear about how you guys met.
There's always these stories
of husband and wives doing these startups,
um,
and going through dental school and
the hardship you all went through.
I think that's real.
I think, I think that's,
who's literally listening
to this show is folks that
are literally listening
in those trenches that you
were in five years ago, I'm,
I'm being dead serious.
And,
and I'm curious to hear Evelyn's
you're he's one hundred and
fifty percent.
Like it's all on your
shoulders while you get
that you got them through this.
And so totally kudos to you.
So Evelyn, what's your story on this?
Yeah.
So Mark and I met in college and we,
I will say story of that.
I grew up hating dentists
because I experience all
dentists in general, just Mark.
So I never imagined Mary and
you want in healthcare or dentistry,
but with my college, um,
And after we got married,
he started to get serious in dentistry.
So I was at accounting school at the time.
So knowing that there's so
many uncertainties ahead,
but I like to work.
I always imagine that I'll always work.
So I just went to a big four
accounting firm because
they have office everywhere.
So I can transition to whichever office.
if I need to so that's how
when he started at uw then
I worked at seattle at a
big accounting firm so we
moved around I kept the
same job as we moved and
then later on I just um
joined another big
technology firm but I work
remotely so that's how
We can't get through the
whole journey because you
just need someone who can be more stable.
How would you describe that grind?
Because I think that's a real thing,
especially for specialists.
Even GPs that maybe go down
a GPR program or whatever.
How would you guys describe
that journey of while
mark, you're like,
I'm going to double down
and go into way more debt.
And,
and we're having a baby and it's all
on my wife's back right now.
And, but it's just going to all work.
Like, is it this, like,
does someone tell you guys
this stuff in school?
Like it's going to be totally fine.
And you're going to have a
bunch of money at the end of this.
Like, what's the, no, seriously,
like what's the message there?
Because a lot of you go through this
process like what was the
hardest part of that whole
thing and I don't know uh
any bit on that folks that
are maybe gp right now
thinking specialists and
they're married and they're
thinking about family
planning any any words of
advice for from either of you um
I'm curious what you have to say, Evelyn,
but I would just say one
thing from my perspective.
My dad is an anesthesiologist.
So I think as a kid,
just hearing him tell me like,
you know what, Mark, if you go to
through medical school
because at the time I was
pre-med like before I
switched to dental but he
was like it's gonna be a
long grind like I had
friends in their twenties
who were buying boats and
buying houses and I was
still in school and it
wasn't until my mid to late
thirties that like I
finally started to have an
income but I my income was
higher than my friends who
got out earlier than me so
it's just this expectation
that like the income will
eventually be there but you
you're going to be broke for
a bit of time first.
Yeah.
Evelyn, any-
finding someone who's
willing to do that journey
with you is huge.
Like Evelyn's been, you know, by my side,
I think it's not always easy, but yeah,
I'm curious what you're like, why,
why you were willing to do it.
Yeah.
I mean, it's legit.
I mean,
of course when you fall in love
with someone,
you fall in love with them
and you just follow them.
And it's not like you're
falling in love with a bomb.
That's not pursuing a career.
So that's a little bit easier, but yeah,
from your perspective,
like what was the hardest part of that?
And, um, any, any words of,
of wisdom and how to get through that?
Cause that's, hell,
that's what this podcast is all about.
We don't talk about any of this stuff.
We talk about construction
and it and all the stuff,
but this is real stuff right now.
So like what, any,
any words of advice for those couples, uh,
dentists, you know, whatever that are,
that are getting ready to go through that,
that process.
Yeah.
I think there are,
basically two things that
helped me through it.
One is having friends who are similar.
Um, cause if you talk to,
I have a lot of friends who are,
were in the healthcare,
like who are older than me,
who went through the
journey or like in the process,
like together.
So like from what I've heard, it's just,
it's tough to start.
And so you kind of, because you're
talk to them a lot, then you're like, okay,
this is normal.
And you will get through that.
So that's definitely one
thing that helped me
because whenever I talk to them,
they're all like, yes,
like healthcare spouses are
if you put them together,
like activity can just win out of
Yeah, that's like... You're not alone.
Almost like military wives and husbands.
Exactly.
It's a whole thing.
It's a whole thing.
Well, Evelyn, you're so numbers driven,
sensitive in a good way.
We always...
Her and I joked, didn't we, Mark,
about how much she loved the numbers,
how much I love the numbers.
And that was our thing.
And then, Mark,
you had this clinical thing
that you wanted to talk to Paula about.
And so it was a great
dynamic between you two just in general.
And it's great having a partner,
not only in life like you two have,
but also a partner in the
business because so much of
all the steps that you guys
just had went through was a team effort.
You know,
back to kind of being broke all the time.
Well,
Mark was able to continue to work his
butt off as an associate
while you were building this thing.
And Evelyn really picked up
a lot of the heavy lifting
while he was clinical.
Right.
It's it's really hard to go
home and do the marketing,
which we just talked about
and and do all the things
when you're exhausted.
clinically and all the all
the other things I just
talked to another pedo
client here in washington
actually and she's working
like four and a half days
and I'm like dude you gotta
gotta start carving some
time out because this
startup isn't gonna happen
if you don't start carving
and she doesn't have
anybody like that she's a
single mom so like again
kudos for evelyn to be a part of that but
Um, you know, you guys are a great team,
but Evelyn from a, from an accounting, uh,
numbers brain,
knowing that like any tips
there on how to save or
manage this money.
Cause I'm, I'm imagining that Mark,
you were able to get college loans,
like no, no problem.
How did you guys make it financially work?
I guess you working full time,
Evelyn is a big thing.
But like any financial
advice on that front, I mean,
I I'm in uncharted territory right now.
I have no coaching to offer.
You guys offer the coaching
to these to these guys that listening.
Yeah, well, first,
I think expect that you
will be broke for a year or two.
And second thing,
I think it's expectations.
I think the best advice that
we were offered is to start
this early because it's really hard.
What we figure is it's
really hard to change your lifestyle,
right?
Once you have the money, the lifestyle,
and then you have to dial back,
it's a huge, huge risk.
But for us, it's like, oh,
like we're just going back
to dental school.
You're taking a loan and I'm
working my job.
So it's nothing different.
Like we, yes, we had,
one year where he had a good
income and I had two and it
was really nice.
And to dial back did make me
anxious for a while.
So I would say like save up,
like things helped me save
up for a whole year.
Like,
you know you have the
expenses covered for a whole year.
That gives you time so that
you don't have to focus on, oh,
like we just don't have
income or lose half of the
income for a whole year.
So that helps me.
Well said.
I mean, I'm just going to say right now,
I get clients that don't
have a savings account and
they're doing this and they
can get a loan.
And that's the thing that I
always say is like,
Just because the lenders are
saying they can give you
money doesn't necessarily
mean it's a good idea either.
When I worked for the bank, I used to say,
look,
just because I can go and finance a
Ferrari doesn't mean that I
should go get a Ferrari.
That doesn't make sense right now for me.
I could definitely qualify for one.
So to that point,
that advice that you just
gave is huge because you
guys are going into a startup
And Mark,
you're working part-time still to
this day, two, three months in.
Evelyn,
did you end up quitting your job
officially?
No.
I'm still keeping it.
Okay.
I know that was thrown
around a little bit.
We were talking about how
you guys were doing that.
But I think that's smart.
You just kind of keep the
income in and fit the
startup into your lifestyle
until the thing breaks even
and starts making you money.
But having that nest egg, that...
that egg to rely on just in case is huge,
huge, huge, huge.
So I also totally can
appreciate what you just said, Evelyn,
where it's not even the nest egg,
because the nest egg's great for sure,
but it's also keeping those
monthly bills way down.
And the lifestyle is easily,
like when you graduated, Mark,
I'm imagining you like, oh,
I'm a pediatric dentist.
Like instead of doing, oh,
let's just double down and
do a startup and be broke again.
You were probably thinking, well,
I want my boat too now.
Right.
So is it?
Yeah.
I mean, was that legit in your household?
Legit a thing?
where you were like,
do we really want to be broke again?
Like, let's go get a house.
And Evelyn,
you had just taken quote
unquote him through college.
And finally, you know,
you guys can start making
some money and having fun
and going to travel and do
all the things.
And then you're like, yeah,
let's go do a start and be broke again.
Like,
like walk me through that conversation.
Yeah, a perfect example,
when we moved to Arizona,
we're looking at houses, right?
Because it just makes sense
to buy a house in Arizona.
But Mark was like, oh,
I want to buy a big house
because now I can afford it.
And we went through the loan officers.
Yes, they're like, oh, yeah,
based on your last year income,
you can afford a million house.
It's fine.
But that's maxing out every
single dime we have.
And we know we have this
startup coming up.
So we had a hardcore
conversation at home to
like buy a small home.
But now, Mark,
you can talk from your perspective.
Now you're happy with our monthly payments,
right?
Love that.
Yeah, Mark.
I mean, trust me.
Someone that is well-educated,
has paid their dues, all the things.
You want to finally start
producing and giving a
lifestyle to your family.
You know, like all those desires.
I have an MBA,
but I didn't go through that.
That's raw right there.
Like like I was able to work
and get my MBA at the same time.
I never had to deal with
what you guys are dealing with.
So, Mark, I mean, was did that pay?
Did that pay a toll on like, I don't know,
your daddy,
your dad and your being a
husband and all that?
Like, is it was that a thing?
No,
there's definitely like a sense of pride,
like you want to be, you know,
providing and proud of that.
And so, yeah, there's definitely that.
But I didn't really,
I wasn't bothered too much
by it just because I talked
to these owners who are ten years in,
fifteen years in,
and I just see what they do it right.
And I really want that.
But, yeah, there is...
a struggle at first, like, you know,
I have that pride in me and
like that arrogance where I
want a nice home and I want to be like,
hell yeah, a little bit, show that off.
Um, yeah.
Now when I look at like,
I'm happy in our home and
our monthly payments for our car payments,
our house payments are low
enough where like,
we don't feel as much like
anxiety or stress that, and we, you know,
like we'll,
we'll get a nicer home when we,
when we can, but I love it.
I think that's gosh, that's so wise.
Like I started thinking about this,
just me even, and I'm older than you guys,
but like,
I was thinking about this
yesterday and I was like,
all the little decisions
that I made from twenty
something to today, which is,
give or take plus twenty
years like they all
compounded and the hard
decisions in the beginning
like you're talking about right now
compounded for me big time in my forties.
Right.
But I, but I absolutely did.
I want to have the best golf
clubs and buy the boats and, and,
and what I'm really
fascinated is even now,
like not to get crazy with
timestamping this, but even now,
like I'm seeing our younger people, uh,
Even if there was some
discipline with the folks,
ten years or whatever behind me,
like thirty years younger than me today,
there is zero concept of
investing in your future self.
There's zero.
It's all about experience
and I don't need to make
any money and benefits.
And what you guys are doing
is you're investing in
yourselves for your forty years.
your forty, you know,
forty and fifty future self.
And it's going to be a lot bigger.
Right.
Because you you did double down,
but it's so easy to stop
doubling down and just love life.
Right.
It'd be so easy to do that.
But anyways,
I just love this conversation.
So so let's pivot into the
the project real quick.
And I know
we're getting a little long
winded and I didn't think
we were going to go down that path,
but I just realized as I
was interviewing guys, that's like gold.
What we just went through there.
Like I have yet to have a,
doing this podcast for four
or five years.
I've yet to have that conversation.
And I think, um,
I'm on the call with people
all day long with guys just like you.
And they're talking about
this stuff to me before
they make the decision.
And so like this might be
one of my most favorite
episodes right now because
this is real stuff.
This is really real stuff.
All right.
So we've got tons of
episodes about the project
and how to manage all that.
So I don't want to get too,
too much into the weeds,
but I'm kind of similar.
Mark,
I had to fight you just a little bit
on how big we scaled the practice.
to the same conversation
about let's get a smaller house.
Yeah.
The exact same conversation.
So are you glad we didn't go
crazy now that you're in three,
three months in or two
months into your project?
Are we glad we did that?
Yeah.
Like I'm not, this isn't like,
like I'm not just saying
this just to say it,
but like you saved me a lot
of money by scaling back the lease.
Cause there was a space
available that was huge and
I wanted this massive
office and I wanted ADEC everything.
Like I just wanted this to
be like my pride and like
something that was so nice
and like state of the art.
But then like we found
another location that was a
smaller square footage in a
better demographic area.
And we did a combination of like, you know,
a little bit of ADAC with
some other brands as well
in there and didn't build
out all the chairs, you know, and like,
now when I look at the
payment and like what I
would have spent and like, you know,
the startup growth,
when you think about it,
the first six months is
just new patients that
you're marketing to.
So that first six months,
like it's literally like pretty slow.
And so how do you even survive?
Like if you do this massive
build and you're like, okay, now I'm set.
Like I never have to move
again and everything's done,
but then it's like going to
pay those bills when you're brand new.
So I feel like really like I,
again it was the pride thing
I wanted the huge one of
the huge office but I'm so
happy that you and evelyn
like kind of double team me
it was like do not do that
it was a double team evelyn
it was a double team I I
couldn't do that without
you that's right do not do
this and then she like was
like all right I need to
get mike involved and then
mike you're like okay I
guess mike said it so I
won't do it yeah was I was
I the tiebreaker was I
always the tiebreaker
If it's only me, he wouldn't trust me.
It has nothing to do with you.
It's a, it's a husband and wife.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, like I,
I think that's really
appropriate conversation
because there's a lot of
podcasts out there right now.
And I won't name any
podcasts or names or call anybody out,
but there is a lot of
discussion about go big or go home.
And it's dangerous.
And as you know, now where you're at,
it's dangerous.
Now you could come back to
me in a year from now and say, damn you,
Mike, we should have did bigger,
but you can't forget the
moment that you're in right now,
because is it first world
problems or third world
problems to have too many patients?
And too busy, right?
A hundred percent.
That was the big,
that's what it came down to
is like everyone who's
established will say,
go bigger when you're starting out.
But it's like,
how am I going to pay the bills?
Like the demographic is
worse in that area.
I see even with better demographics here,
it's a grind to bring patients in.
So yeah,
like it's nice to have the huge space,
but for those first like two years,
how are you going to pay
that really high rent?
And like, you know, the invoices on the,
I know you've had other podcasts on this,
so we don't have to go too far into this,
but like the invoices on
like contractors and equipment,
like they just like you
think they just keep coming.
Yeah.
So we're just going to stop.
Right.
When's it going to stop?
Yeah, it's so it's so it's so true.
And again,
having that cash that you guys
save is going to help.
uh managing through those ti
allowances which we talked
about offline and just all
of it but just keeping
everything low and yes
someday I hope you call me
and say mike damn you we
should have did bigger I
hope that's the case
because at that point then
you can do the second
office and then you can go
big on that but you at
least have cash flow you
have a base to to feed off
of and to live off of and
Um, yeah, no, I, um, good,
really good advice.
I'm glad they're hearing it from you.
Not me.
I try to say it a lot.
Evelyn as a partner spouse
that was very involved with the project.
And I'm going to use the word, sorry, Mark,
dealing with a clinical
dentist trying to do this.
What like what were some of
those conservative topics
like scaling too big that
you really had to like duke it out?
And you're glad that you
kind of won those battles.
And then maybe the vice versa.
Did he challenge you on some stuff?
that you're glad that he won.
Like is, was there,
I think that's a really
good conversation because
clinicians and dentists,
it's their time at their
due their dream practice.
And they don't have an Evelyn, um,
quote unquote to level it out.
And so I think this is,
this is kind of cool.
So any, any, anything to add to that,
all of that Evelyn.
I think it's,
it's really good experience
for us to like learn.
Cause, um, there are a lot of times,
definitely he's absolutely right.
Like one of the example I
can tell you is was hiring time.
I had a good read on one of the applicant,
but Mark did not.
And he choose to not say
anything to keep me happy
because I was pretty into.
But it's because it's a dental assistant,
but I don't have the
clinical background to know what works,
what doesn't.
To me,
it's just based on whatever I
assumed it is to be.
So we actually had to let
her go two weeks in because
it's just not a good fit.
So like from then,
like we like we talk together.
If you don't have a girlfriend,
tell me like we need to talk through it,
not just like I'm making
the decision because before it's like, oh,
it's like operations.
It's on me.
Right.
Hiring is kind of part of HR.
But there are like I would
say like it's definitely a
learning process where we
should be talking and
communicating no matter
like what like the main role is for each.
Totally.
One, one hundred and fifty percent.
I it's a good balance to
have someone like that.
You guys are lucky to have each other.
Keep saying that there's
there's also some some negative to it,
too.
Let's just let's talk about that.
Having having spouses work for you,
it could it can drain the team.
It can drain your marriage.
Right.
And so how are you guys
finding that balance?
I'm this, this, this episode.
So good.
We should,
I should be wrapping it up and
you guys probably got to go.
I promise I'll wrap it up, but any,
any advice on how to make that work?
Partners, business and,
and personal making a
business work and all that, the dynamics,
any comments there?
Um, I'll go, like,
I don't know what you have
to say about Evelyn.
I'll just go first here,
but I think that Evelyn and
I's like background and
skill sets are different
and we're both very
opinionated people about
what we're good at.
And so it's nice that
they're in different things.
It might be challenging.
Trust me,
I would say the majority of
couples that do start up together,
I would say,
or I can't speak for the majority, Mike,
you could, but the ones from my class,
I do see some of them are
like two dentists, so I'm sure it works.
I'm just saying from our perspective,
our arguments are a little
bit less because we're kind
of like specializing in
different things within the business.
Yes, we still have to communicate,
but I think like if we were
both arguing on like
clinical stuff that might
be a little more
challenging but because
evelyn's coming out coming
at it more like hr
marketing and the numbers
and I'm coming at it more
from like the clinical side
um that has sort of
shielded some of the the I
guess arguments that could be in there um
but that's, that's kind of my opinion.
I love that.
I'm going to, I'm going to touch on that.
Do you guys have any rules
about not bringing stuff
home or is it all on?
Let's talk like, have you,
have you given yourself any,
any breaks at home?
You got a little one too.
Like it can't all be about
the dental office.
Yeah.
We kind of have a one kind of rule.
We're not always following it,
but I'm like, I need sleep.
But when,
When somebody's throwing me a question,
it just, my head spins.
So I, the rule I give Mark is,
Don't start to talk about
important things after ten p.m.
because then I can't sleep.
Yeah.
And like it will do it will
start to be a heated
conversation because I want to go to bed.
And yeah, he wants to talk.
So that's my role.
Yeah, that's a great role.
That's a great role.
I wanted to touch on real
quick rules and
responsibilities and partnership,
because what you guys are
doing right now is.
an undefined,
but very defined job
description for the two
partners or the two people
helping operate this business.
Right.
And it's really easy to say, okay, well,
Evelyn's got all this stuff
on this brain and Mark,
you've got all this stuff on this brain.
If you didn't have Evelyn,
you would still need to do
the same thing within your business.
And you're,
you're figuring that out with
your team members as well.
But like,
even with Paula and I as a partner group,
I know what my job is and
what her job is.
And even though I could
probably do a lot of what
Paula does and she could do
a lot of what I do,
we know that the decision maker is,
and then we of course have
to decide together,
but there's a champion for
certain things.
And that's,
Dividing and conquering and
having very defined rules.
So this is a beautiful thing
here because now Mark can
spend all his time focusing
and owning his piece and
Evelyn same thing.
And there's a lot of trust here.
And it's easy to do this
when you have two different strengths.
Right.
But you're right.
When two people have the same strengths,
I challenge you like two dentists.
I get a lot of pedo ortho
kind of combos or what?
Like you said, husband, wife,
maybe both pedos.
Like you probably have the same,
quote unquote, brain,
but you still need to have
the rules and
responsibilities and job duties.
So you guys have it naturally set up.
And I applaud you on that.
That's that seems like it's
working really well.
um all right as we kind of
lay into this last five
minutes here and and wrap
things up um give me one
thing that surprised you um
about the project and
there's stefani piping in I
love it you guys know
stefani she she helped she
helps and helped you guys
uh through the process great
Um, this is live by the way.
So she's piping in.
I love it.
Um,
so if there's one thing that you would
say that you were, um, surprised about,
and then one thing that you would,
you would have done differently.
Um,
I'll give Evelyn the one to do
differently.
What could you have done differently?
Mark,
one thing that surprised you in a
good way, putting you on the spot.
So whoever wants to go first, go for it.
Um, Evelyn,
what's one thing that you would,
would have done differently?
We,
I think we discussed it before we even
started.
What was that?
Yeah.
The biggest thing for me is
to start your like community marketing.
What I mean by that is as a pedo office,
especially your referral
comes from pediatrician, from GPs.
And as,
especially because we're new to the area,
we were,
Like we don't have people already, right?
Will come to our door.
It's purely on like how to
maximize the branding awareness.
So one thing I would have
done differently is to
start that early before we
open our doors.
Before we open,
we were just solely focused
on getting the clinic set up,
getting websites set up,
like everything logically or yeah,
just those things.
But once we open the door, it's like, okay,
now what?
When's the patient's going to come in?
So I know there are other
marketings we can do,
but like for the part that
you talk to the pediatricians in the area,
you talk to the schools,
daycares in the area,
that part can start early.
Like people,
you can start to know people
and they can start, okay,
there's a like new pedo.
in the area.
So I would definitely a
hundred percent do that so
that you don't struggle like the very,
very beginning.
Struggle is an aggressive word,
but I know what you mean
that you're never going to
be as busy as you want to be day one,
right?
Ever.
Right.
But to flip that, you're right,
like to be busier,
you have to put in more work.
And I love that tip because
and you guys probably
remember me saying this and
I feel like I say it almost
daily and it's like, OK, guys,
we're through the project.
And there's a lot more things to do,
hire and set up systems and credential,
pick your fee schedules and
start up the membership
plan and make sure the
contractor's showing up and
all the things.
But the one thing that's the
most important above all that
is,
is trying to find some patients in
between the time now to, to open.
And, you know,
imagine you don't even have an Evelyn.
It's just Mark clinical, like the, the,
the, the single mom that hired me.
I mean, she's,
Where I'm I'm struggling to
get her to find two things
because she's so busy.
Right.
It's just because she's busy.
And Evelyn,
you're one hundred hundred and
fifty percent right.
Right.
Even if all the systems
weren't ready to go, your H.R.
manual wasn't dialed,
your billing wasn't set up,
all the things that you got to get done.
OK.
If none of that was ready,
but you had a fifty patients day one,
what would be better?
It would definitely be
stressful day one because
you have no systems,
but at least you have some
patients to pay the bills.
Right.
So there's always that balance,
especially with dentists,
because they're so
checklists they're so uh
type a drive drive drive
systems let's you know and
that's what they're really
excited about because
they're leaving the
associate position because
they hate all the systems
that they're dealing with
and they want to create
their own and this is their
baby but everybody forgets
about the marketing awesome
tip mark anything that
surprised you about the
process or maybe even just
add to it and then we'll
shut this baby down
Um, I mean, Evelyn,
you really kind of that was
a big one is community marketing.
So getting like our name out
of brand awareness.
I'd say what's surprising me
in a positive way,
I would say two things that
I can think of just off the
top of my head here.
One is the brand awareness.
So yeah, first, it's like,
it's hard to bring people in.
And then as these different
marketings and then people
come in and they're like, well,
you gave a goodie bag to my
son at school that he came home with.
And then I drove past your
sign and then I saw you on Instagram.
And so I decided to call.
It's like,
you realize how many touch are involved,
but as you start to build that awareness,
like you see like, okay, last week,
you know, only a couple of people called.
And then this week, every day of the week,
like two people called, you know?
So like you see that growth,
which is really nice.
And then, um,
the team so like just
finding a good team I'm
really happy with who we
have and so it's really
cool like being in that
kind of more like in a I
guess like a boss role for
the first time but just
having a real hard-working
team that is invested in
this yeah um it was I
couldn't have asked for a
better team and I was
surprised at how how well
that came together
I love that.
That's awesome.
I have to throw this in because Abby,
one of the next level gals
that work for us,
chimed in with a question.
And I just have to because
it's a great question.
I'm going to put it up on.
It was brought in from YouTube.
And that's her question.
I think it's a great question for you,
Mark, or even Evelyn,
whoever wants to take this.
The question came in, again,
these are live.
What kind of feedback have
you received from your
first patients and how has
that influenced your
approach to your now new
patient care that you're
creating within your practice?
Great question.
And then we'll close it down
with that one.
Mark, Evelyn, anybody?
Yeah.
Evelyn,
I think you take a lot of pride in
this because you approach
our clinic from a mom's perspective,
not from a dentist perspective.
So you could answer that.
I can answer,
but I know everyone is proud of these,
like the patient experience.
That's like a big thing she harps on.
I'll say one that's positive
and one is negative in some way.
We just went through this
for one of the mom that she
has a special need patient,
a special need daughter.
And she moved to Arizona
just because of her
daughter can have more resources.
So she like,
she loved her experience here.
She loved how caring we are.
And she just like,
we're trying to refer her
to somewhere else to get
her daughter into hospital earlier.
And she's like, can we come back?
can I come back to you?
And it just shows,
it's very rewarding showing that, okay,
this is,
because my perspective is treat
the patient as how I want
to be treated because I'm a mom.
So it's really helpful to know that, okay,
this is what they want to, not just like,
oh, this is some Evelyn nitpicky thing.
So that's why I love it.
It's like, Mark is like, oh,
you're spending a lot of time.
Like, it's not the time, it's care.
So I love it.
I love it.
The second piece is kind of negative.
Like we,
at our first GA day, right?
Like we were under the assumption of like,
oh,
parents are allowed to be back like at
the beginning before kids
sleep until the night
before we were told that.
And we start to call
patients and they're very,
very mad about it.
So like we had to go through
a lot to get the first day
like eased out.
So I think for us,
the biggest lesson is like,
For us,
we need to clarify on every single
detail.
Love it.
Love it.
Great, guys.
Nailed that.
There's going to just be so
much growth and stretching
for you guys for the next
twelve to twenty four months.
So I just want to salute you both and say,
gosh, I mean,
how much of a pleasure it
was to coach you.
I know the next level team agrees.
Look,
they're they're both my team's
commenting.
I love it.
We loved working with you guys.
I couldn't be more proud.
You guys are going to be successful.
You got to keep grinding.
And we talked about this
before the show began.
And it's just every six
months compounds because
the patients you see today in six months,
you're going to see the
same people and plus all
the new patients.
And then in nine months from now,
so on and so forth.
So
So just keep staying the course.
I love it.
Without further ado,
I'm going to close this down.
Any last final things that
you had to get off the
chest before I run the
super mouth commercial?
I just got to say it was really,
obviously we still stay in
touch and everything, but no,
it was just really great
working with you and your team.
You, Paul, Stefani,
like just worked really
closely with us and being in a new area,
especially it was huge.
So just really grateful to
be a part of your team.
That's sweet.
Thanks, Doc.
Supermouth's paying for this.
I didn't pay Mark for that, I promise.
Yeah, no, the pleasure was all ours.
You guys were, I mean,
you are the reason why we
do this because of you guys.
You're great.
And it'll be awesome seeing
you guys continue to thrive.
Yeah.
Without further ado,
let's shut this down at
forty six minutes.
Sorry it was so long.
We had a great conversation.
You guys did great.
And I'll see you guys next
time in Arizona.
Sounds like a plan.
Sounds great.
See you guys.
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