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Voted #1 Radio Station in the Missoula Valley, Trail 1033's Official Podcast makes exclusive on-air interviews, performances, new music and interesting conversations available to you on demand.
Enjoy daily uploads following community interviews on the Morning Trail show with Robert Chase, occasional live performances from both new and landmark bands and artists. Check out the Lunchbox every weekday at Noon, as Mike Smith dishes up a great block of themed music, interviews and more. New music your thing? Every Tuesday 6PM-7PM, enjoy The New Show hosted and produced by Tommy Evans.
Catch so much more interesting and timely conversation and, of course, amazing music from Robert, Mike and Tommy - LIVE- on The Trail 1033FM in Missoula and around the world at trail1033.com every day from 6AM until 9PM.
See what we're up to at trail1033.com or give us a call at 406-721-6800
Mike Smith:
I am hearing that one in a completely different and new light on Trail 103.3. John Lennon's "Number 9 Dream."
May Pang is here in the Trail Studio. May, first of all, I was going to say all this stuff about you, but I just want to say thank you so much for stopping by.
May Pang:
Oh, thank you for having me. I mean, I'm enjoying every minute here in Montana, really.
Mike Smith:
Yeah.
May Pang:
I'm just enjoying it.
Mike Smith:
So I just need to jump in here. A lot of folks are tuned in because they know who you are. They know a lot about you, but we're going to find out even more today.
If you don't know, May Pang is actually on that record, and we'll talk about that.
May Pang—our new friend—was John Lennon's companion and lover during the Lost Weekend era. She's in town to showcase her candid photographs of Lennon during a special three-day exhibition at LA Design in Missoula.
It kicks off today at four o'clock, and we'll get into all those details.
But you were part of that Lost Weekend...you were part of that whole scene way back.
May Pang:
Yeah. I mean...where do we start?
Mike Smith:
That's a good question.
May Pang:
I really started—and a lot of people had no idea—I actually started in the music business in 1969.
I started working over at Allen Klein's office, ABKCO, and he had just acquired Apple as part of his management.
Not only did I get a chance to work there at the height of everything, I worked in their music publishing division, which I loved because I got a chance to see all these singer-songwriters.
I mean, Cameo Parkway Records...if you don't know what that is, the Philadelphia Sound—that's where it was back then.
He had Kags Music, which was Sam Cooke's catalog.
He had Immediate Records and Publishing, which was the Rolling Stones, and he was also managing them at the same time.
Then he had Apple Records and three out of the four Beatles—Ringo, George and John—and everybody signed to Apple.
So I had a really good training ground.
A year later I started working for John and Yoko on their projects.
Mike Smith:
So we've got to say that the album we just heard—Walls and Bridges—with "Number 9 Dream"...can you tell us more about that record?
We've played it over the years, but it's special to you personally, and it's also a very special record for everybody who loves John Lennon and his body of work.
May Pang:
Yeah.
He wanted to go back and do new songs because we were in the middle of doing Rock 'n' Roll, but Phil Spector took our tapes and we couldn't get any of it back.
So then we went to producing Harry Nilsson, and John said,
"I'm ready to go back into the studio, but not doing all these...I've got to do something else. I'm writing songs."
I said, "Okay."
So we booked the studio in 1974.
What he was proud of was that he did the album in eight weeks.
Start to finish.
I called up all the musicians, I got the studio booked, and it was great.
He was so proud of that record.
And he came in under budget.
If I told you it was roughly around sixty thousand dollars back then...
He just said,
"I got it in budget."
He was thrilled.
Mike Smith:
I always thought John Lennon would be the type who would say,
"I don't care about the budget. We're just going to keep going."
Money and the business side be damned.
But it sounds like getting it in under budget was actually important to him.
May Pang:
Yeah.
He didn't like wasting money, believe it or not.
Mike Smith:
Interesting.
A lot of people may think that because of all the antics they've read about, but in actuality it wasn't like that.
May Pang:
No.
He loved to be on time when it came to music.
That was his life.
He understood that.
He didn't want to waste it.
He told the musicians,
"I don't care what you do after the sessions, but during my sessions, could you not do anything that might take us somewhere else?"
He was really adamant about that.
Mike Smith:
So from being a big part of getting ready for that album, being in the studio, being on the record, and the fact that it was so successful...
At what point did you pick up a camera?
Was that early on?
Was that later?
May Pang:
Picking up a camera was done very early on.
I was interested in taking photographs very early.
So I got myself a 35mm camera and carried it around everywhere.
Everybody used to look at me and I'd just say,
"I just like taking pictures."
They knew I always had the camera on my shoulder.
In fact, in the exhibition, the very first photograph isn't of John.
It's actually George Harrison.
That was taken a few weeks before I photographed John.
So I've got an early 1970 photograph of George.
Then a few weeks later there's John—what he looked like then.
So it's great.
Mike Smith:
It gives me chills hearing you talk about these folks in the first person.
It's just kind of an interesting experience for me.
I don't think I've ever met anyone who's met any of the Beatles, let alone someone we can't meet anymore like John Lennon—and of course George Harrison.
May Pang:
Right.
Both of them.
When they were together they were very close.
They were more like an older brother and a younger brother.
John actually said that to me.
He said,
"George always followed me. He was always my younger brother."
One of the last times we were together with George...
George said to John,
"Where were you when I needed you?"
John looked at him and said,
"I couldn't before...but I'm here for you now."
So there were a lot of little things like that.
I've witnessed so much.
In a lot of ways it was just everyday life.
To me it wasn't,
"Oh, this is iconic."
It was simply our life.
This was before everyone thought in terms of "rock stars."
John would never say,
"I'm a rock star."
That wasn't even a phrase yet.
He knew he was famous, but he wasn't someone who walked around saying,
"Hey, do you know who I am?"
Mike Smith:
Everything I've ever read or learned is that he really loved New York because he could kind of just be a New Yorker there.
May Pang:
Yes.
As much as you can.
We'd walk down the street and somebody would wave.
One time he even took a bus ride.
Can you imagine?
People were sitting there whispering,
"Does that guy look like John Lennon?"
Finally one brave soul said,
"Hey, John! How you doing?"
John said,
"I'm fine, man."
Then he looked at me and said,
"Time to get off."
Mike Smith:
So, photographing John and others over the years, what's something you hope folks take away from the current exhibit of these images?
May Pang:
I want them to see the John I knew.
The John at home.
He's not posing for magazines. He's not there for magazine consumption. These photographs were just for us.
I want people to see that private side of him.
He was just at home. There are photos with Julian when he'd come visit. It was a completely different scenario than what people may have imagined.
Mike Smith:
I'm looking at a very tender photo that you took of John and Julian here.
May Pang:
Yes.
Mike Smith:
And it is quite sweet.
May Pang:
I know the photo very well.
When Julian and Cynthia started the White Feather Foundation, they put together a gallery exhibition in Liverpool.
Mike Smith:
What is the White Feather Foundation?
May Pang:
It's the foundation that Julian started to help people around the world.
I think it was around 2009 or maybe 2011—I can't remember exactly.
When they put together that gallery in Liverpool, they asked if they could license one of my photographs.
I said,
"Sure."
It was that photograph of John and Julian that you were just looking at.
They didn't have any photographs like that.
I happened to have it.
We were out swimming.
Julian loved coming to visit, and one of the things he and John shared—besides music—was their love of the water.
They were always swimming.
I couldn't swim.
It was kind of funny because John kept saying,
"I'll teach you."
I said,
"I don't think so."
He said,
"Yes, I'll teach you."
I remember going out into the water and suddenly realizing I couldn't touch the bottom.
I started to panic.
John said,
"Don't panic."
I said,
"You know what? I'll just go back to the boat."
Because all I could think was,
"I can already see the headline: 'John Lennon's girlfriend drowns.'"
I thought,
"I don't like that headline."
So I told him,
"John, let me just go back to the boat."
He said,
"Do you think you can make it?"
I said,
"Sure."
I lied.
I kept thinking,
"If I drown, would he even hear me?"
Luckily, I knew how to float, so I made my way back.
When I finally reached the boat and grabbed onto it, I thought,
"Oh, thank God. I made it."
So I decided to pick up the camera instead.
Mike Smith:
I'm speaking with May Pang—photographer, friend, companion, and John Lennon's partner during his Lost Weekend era.
Can you say a little more about that "Lost Weekend" era?
First of all...it was a year and a half, right?
May Pang:
Yes.
Everybody loves calling it that.
People ask,
"Where did he go?"
But it wasn't really about that.
In one of John's last interviews, he referred to it as the "Lost Weekend."
He liked using metaphors.
People kept asking him about drinking and all these stories, and the press kept repeating the same incidents over and over until it sounded like he spent that entire year and a half completely drunk.
It wasn't like that at all.
When they asked him about it, John said,
"It was like a long lost weekend."
He was referring to the original movie The Lost Weekend with Ray Milland.
The phrase caught on and stuck.
Eventually I just started using it because people knew exactly which period I meant.
Mike Smith:
So you just embraced it.
May Pang:
Exactly.
Mike Smith:
The photography that's here in Missoula...
Is it mostly from that Lost Weekend period?
Or are there photographs from before that as well?
May Pang:
Just a couple from before.
Like I mentioned, the George Harrison photograph and the early one of John.
John actually saw me pick up the camera and immediately turned and posed.
The rest are all from that time.
You'll also get to see the original photograph that Julian Lennon used on the cover of his last album.
That's my photograph.
He simply blacked out the background and used the image.
There's also the photograph John used for the sleeve of the "Imagine" single in England.
That was his favorite photograph because he was wearing his favorite Irish sweater.
Mike Smith:
Oh, nice.
That was his favorite?
May Pang:
Yes.
Mike Smith:
Let's give everybody a little more from Walls and Bridges, and then we'll come back to our conversation.
I'm here with May Pang in the Trail Studio.
I'm Mike Smith.
Her photography exhibition begins today at four o'clock at LA Design in downtown Missoula.
Let's hear another one from John Lennon on the Trail.
[Music: "Whatever Gets You Through the Night" plays.]
[Song fades.]
Mike Smith:
That's why you buy the good headphones...
...and the really nice stereo and speakers in the Trail Studio—for an album like that.
John Lennon's Walls and Bridges.
We're speaking with photographer May Pang.
Boy...there's just so much to your story.
We were going to listen to the song and then continue the interview...
...but we just kept talking.
May Pang:
I know!
It's amazing because that night...
Everybody says,
"Oh, Elton..."
We knew Elton John was in town and wanted to stop by the recording studio.
Tony King—who worked for Apple and introduced us—said,
"Elton wants to come by."
He said,
"If you want him to play something, he probably will."
Elton showed up.
John asked,
"What are you working on?"
Then John played him the song.
Elton listened once and said,
"I've got an idea."
And that's what you're hearing.
All that piano.
Mike Smith:
Yeah...
That's beautiful.
One listen.
Genius.
Mike Smith:
It's fun talking to you because this was your life.
May Pang:
Yeah.
Mike Smith:
And there's just the amount of—for lack of a better word—name-dropping. But these people were simply around you all the time.
May Pang:
All the time.
It was interesting because several people would stop by our apartment in New York City. That's where we lived—we didn't live in Los Angeles. A lot of people think we did, but we actually lived in New York.
Paul and Linda would come over whenever they were in town.
All of a sudden we'd hear the doorbell ring and there they'd be.
Mick Jagger was another.
David Bowie came by.
Whoever happened to be in town would just stop over.
John eventually realized that's just how I was.
If someone came to my door, I was going to let them in.
Every household is different.
But in my house, if you're at the door, you're welcome.
Mike Smith:
Oh, that's very nice.
I'm speaking with May Pang, John Lennon's companion and partner during his Lost Weekend era.
She's in town showcasing her candid photographs of Lennon during a special three-day exhibition at LA Design in Missoula.
The exhibition runs today from 4:00 to 7:00, and Tuesday and Wednesday from noon until 5:00.
The exhibition is titled The Lost Weekend.
What do you think it is about John Lennon?
Maybe even more so than the other Beatles—or other musicians at that level—that makes people feel like they knew him?
Like they had some kind of connection with him?
May Pang:
Yeah.
He could communicate.
I think communication was his greatest gift.
He would say the things that were already on your mind.
He could write those words.
When I think about all the Beatles songs, my favorites were always the ones he wrote.
Paul wrote beautiful love songs.
Wonderful songs.
But the deeper messages...
Those usually came from John.
I think we all want somebody who can speak for us.
That was simply part of who he was.
And he was incredibly witty.
People ask me all the time,
"Did you ever watch him write songs?"
Yes.
All the time.
I wish I had his talent.
But that was his gift.
Everybody has some kind of talent.
His happened to be communicating.
The only thing...
You didn't want to be in the crosshairs when he got angry.
Mike Smith:
Yeah.
I imagine that tongue could be pretty sharp.
May Pang:
Oh...
His pen was sharp...
...but his tongue was even sharper.
Mike Smith:
The music obviously continues speaking to people.
And now these photographs capture so many different sides of him.
As a subject...
He was also an impressive subject to photograph.
May Pang:
He really was.
When I first started taking photographs of him, he'd say,
"Let me see what you've got."
He'd look through the pictures.
Then he'd go,
"Hmmm."
I'd ask,
"What does that mean?"
He'd say,
"Well...I like them. You can carry on."
Then he'd add,
"You don't make me look fat."
I said,
"Fat? What do you mean?"
He said,
"I hate it when photographers make me look fat."
I don't know if you can find a fat photograph of John Lennon anywhere...
...but apparently he thought it was possible.
Mike Smith:
Well...
Your love and admiration for him probably shines through in every photograph.
May Pang:
I think it does.
But he simply trusted me.
He let me photograph him whenever I wanted.
I didn't take advantage of that.
Only because...
I always thought he'd be around.
I didn't want to constantly have a camera in his face.
Instead, I photographed the moments.
Sometimes he'd just be lying in bed watching television...
...with the cats all over him.
Little everyday moments.
Those were the ones I wanted.
Mike Smith:
Was there ever a time when you couldn't look at these photographs?
May Pang:
Yes.
I had to put them away for a while.
They made me sad because he wasn't here anymore.
Eventually I realized...
I'll always have him around because the music is still here.
His words are still here.
Sometimes you get little reminders.
I'm not saying he speaks to me from the other side...
I'm just saying...
Sometimes you get messages.
I'll be watching Law & Order...
...and suddenly Sam Waterston says,
"Whatever gets you through the night..."
And I think,
"Where did that come from?"
It's those little moments.
Mike Smith:
That's really cool.
As a radio programmer, I always wonder what we should do every year when that date comes around.
May Pang:
Personally...
I ignore that date.
I'd rather celebrate him.
His birthday is much more important to me.
The two of us celebrated the entire month of October because I'm an October baby too.
Every year he'd have his chocolate blackout cake.
He absolutely loved that cake.
We'd celebrate quietly.
We'd go out.
Have dinner.
Enjoy ourselves.
To me...
That's the date worth celebrating.
The other date...
I acknowledge it.
I miss him.
But I don't stay there.
I want to keep moving forward.
Mike Smith:
I think we should do exactly that this year.
Let's get a local chocolate blackout cake...
...and celebrate John's birthday.
In honor of John...
...and also in honor of your friendship and your love for him.
Do you still stay in touch with Julian?
Do you ever talk with Sean?
May Pang:
Sean...
Not really.
He came along later.
But Julian and I still keep in touch from time to time.
After all...
He used my photograph for his last album cover.
One night I got an email from him in the middle of the night.
I thought,
"What's he doing awake?"
Then I remembered...
He lives in Europe.
He asked,
"Do you have any more photographs of me from that time?"
I sent him a few within minutes.
Almost immediately he replied,
"That's it. That's the one. Can I use it?"
I said,
"Of course you can."
Mike Smith:
May, I'd love to have you hang out with us all day.
I know you've probably got other things to do and maybe some more local media interviews, but it's just so cool to have you—and your photography—in town.
But I do want to talk about the documentary that's out now.
May Pang:
Yes.
I have a documentary that's streaming now.
It's available on Amazon Prime, Tubi, Apple TV, Roku, and several other streaming platforms.
People can find it pretty easily.
It's a documentary I actually raised the money for myself.
Nobody handed me a budget.
I commissioned it because I thought it was finally time to correct some of the myths that have been floating around for years.
One of the biggest myths is that Yoko sent John and me out to Los Angeles.
She didn't.
Believe it or not, she didn't even know we were out there at first.
After we'd been there about a week, I finally said to John,
"I think we should probably call the office and let people know where we are."
He wasn't even particularly eager to make the call.
But we did.
Yoko stayed in touch with us.
It's not like she disappeared from the picture.
She simply did not send us there.
That's one of the myths I wanted to clear up.
There are other things that happened, certainly, but that wasn't one of them.
Mike Smith:
And that's exactly why it's so valuable that you made the documentary.
So often we hear one sentence...
...or one headline...
...and that's all people remember.
They never dig deeper.
Whether it's John Lennon, your life, Yoko, or that entire period, people deserve the fuller story.
May Pang:
Exactly.
It's funny because we talked earlier about "Number 9 Dream."
A few years ago someone asked,
"Have you seen the music video they made?"
I hadn't.
So I watched it.
When that whispered section comes in...
...everyone assumes it's Yoko because her face is on the screen.
But it's actually my voice.
Mike Smith:
It's your voice!
I absolutely love that whisper.
And hearing it here today—with you sitting in the Trail Studio—puts the song in a completely different light.
We'll definitely play it again after you leave.
I'm speaking with May Pang, John Lennon's companion during the Lost Weekend era.
Her candid photographs are featured in a three-day exhibition beginning today at LA Design in downtown Missoula.
The opening reception starts at 4:00 this afternoon.
Will you be there the whole time?
And can people purchase photographs?
Do you have books available?
May Pang:
I used to have a book, but it's out of print now.
Right now I'm only selling the prints themselves.
They're all limited editions.
I don't sign anything until it's purchased.
Once someone buys a print, I sign it right there in front of them.
People can take pictures while I sign.
They can ask me as many questions as they want.
That's really why I'm there.
I enjoy talking with everyone.
Mike Smith:
I have to say—you look so fresh-faced and excited to share these photographs.
You're clearly proud of this work.
May Pang:
I'm actually surprised.
Yesterday was a very long day.
I got up at two o'clock in the morning to start traveling.
Flying all the way from New York...
...it's almost like traveling to another country.
But the minute I arrived here...
...I felt myself relax.
It's so different from New York City.
There's not that constant hustle and bustle.
Mike Smith:
Well, consider yourself officially invited back—not for work—but just to come enjoy Montana.
Go float the river...
Take in the mountains...
Just relax.
May Pang:
I'd love to.
I've always told people they need to see Montana.
One of my favorite movies is The Hunt for Red October.
There's that line at the end where Sam Neill says,
"I would have liked to have seen Montana."
And I remember thinking...
"Yes."
I completely understand why.
Now that I've actually been here...
...I understand it even more.
Mike Smith:
Final thoughts?
People have the opportunity to experience your work this week.
May Pang:
I hope people will watch the documentary first if they can.
It's about an hour and a half long.
Then when they come to the exhibition...
...all of the photographs have much more context.
You'll understand why they were taken.
Mike Smith:
And on the drive over...
...or on the drive home...
...put on Walls and Bridges.
Listen to the entire album from beginning to end.
After all...
It was John's only Number One album during his lifetime to feature a Number One single.
May Pang:
Exactly.
Mike Smith:
We'll continue digging into that album here on the Trail.
May, thank you so much for coming in today.
Any final words?
May Pang:
I'm just grateful there are still so many people who care about John's work.
Thank you for having me.
I've enjoyed every minute of being here.
Mike Smith:
Well, we certainly appreciate you stopping by.
Much love to you, May Pang.
Thank you.
And of course...
The great John Lennon...
...here on Trail 103.3.